Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - Why Losing Was Never the End for Jake Bostwick

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Jake “Brutal” Bostwick, professional fighter and bare-knuckle boxer, joins The Determined Society for a raw conversation on fighting, violence, identity, resilience, discipline, and refusing to stay down. Jake opens up about growing up in Southeast London, being surrounded by violence, learning to defend himself early, standing up for people being bullied, and stepping into professional fighting as a teenager. Together Shawn French and Jake discuss his journey through MMA, boxing, and bare-knuckle fighting, the pain and respect that come with combat sports, what it feels like to keep fighting after loss, and the identity challenges athletes face when the sport becomes who they are. This conversation goes beyond the ring and into the mindset of a man who has built his life around toughness, protection, discipline, and getting back up every time life hits. The Determined Society is hosted by Shawn French — a show for people who refuse to quit. Every episode goes beyond the highlight reel to explore the real stories behind resilience, reinvention, and the relentless pursuit of a life built on your own terms.   Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all others.. If this episode moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear it — and leave a review. It helps more than you know. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Like, I've been to battle. You know, like I've had to stand and fight and battle. Most people, when they lose, they stop. They tell themselves the story that maybe this wasn't for them. You know, you either choose to get up or you don't. You know, I always choose to get up. A lot of people, when they lose something, they go down the rabbit or I'm just not that good. A lot of definitely learn from the mistakes.

The wins are the wins. There's a special fighter inside every single one of us. But it's your job to call on that. fighter. You got to look at the full picture. I did I mess up? What did I do wrong? Like what what could I have done better? Right. That's how I'm gonna grow and get better. You're at the top of the ladd of all bro. Like you are busting corgay, you know, and then if you are not doing that anymore then yeah there's gonna be an identity issue there. If you get knocked down, you can't retreat. You have to get back up and do the

things that you know you need to do to get better. Determination. I think are you willing to throw all your in the basket to pursue something that you want and want to take. I think you've either all in or you're all at. Jake Boswick, welcome to the Determined Society. Absolutely pleasure. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

I mean, I kind of bumbled a little bit of it up, but hopefully the editors are, you know, can cut some of it out. But man, no, those are hard. But dude, what an amazing background, dude. Like, I don't want to start where we're at now, though. I want to go all the way back. You know, southeast London, there was a teenager losing fights before the knockouts and all that kind of stuff. What was he actually chasing?

I don't even know what he was chasing, bro. It was just, again, the area I was from southeast London, a lot of dramas, a lot of problems. Like I grew up fighting, grew up around violence in general anyway. And then it was just one thing led to the next, getting into the gym. You know, I started doing taekwondo when I was like, like eight, seven, eight, nine years old. My dad used to take me there. And I was a very active kid.

You know, I was playing rugby and very contact sports. And, you know, I had that young man energy, you know. And then, yeah, you know, a lot of drums in the streets, a lot of problems here and there. I was fighting adults, like grown-ass men when I was, you know, a little jit, mate, like a teenager. Like, yeah. And then one thing led to another, mate, you know,

I'm over 50 professional fights in now. I can control my anger. I can control when I flick that switch. I'm always got a smile on my face until I don't have to. And, you know, it's a very different story then, you know. Yeah, absolutely. So you grew up in the Farrier Estate, right? I grew up on the Ferrier Estate, yeah, South East London.

And that right there, like, this is what I've heard. I don't know. Fact check it for me is people would hide that from their resume so they could get a job because it had a poor reputation. Very bad name. So we call them council estates. Okay. So if you got no money or whatever, you know, and you just bumming off the government, you just get given somewhere to stay, you know, as such.

Obviously, my dad was working and so forth. My mom wasn't. And then, yeah, I grew up on the ferry. Yeah, very rough, rough area. Again, I grew up with it, so it was more just part of the culture that I was around, you know. But then, you know, you see a lot of, you know, drugs and fighting, violence, you know, stuff outside pubs, this, that and the other. and yeah it was a it was a bad spot and you can even look it up now it's completely changed you know there's they completely ripped the whole of the ferrier down and now they've built it up

to be something that is that is that it wasn't you know some of the penthouses up there are like almost like a million and a million pounds yeah it's crazy wow so the the the the complexion of that area has changed quite that whole part even even where i grew up even where i was born greenwich hospital okay um even that's not there anymore That's been completely derelict. That's where it's been smashed down and there's like a massive health and fitness spot. Actually, my mom works there now.

She gave birth to me there and there is a whole new thing, you know, 30 odd years later. Wow, that's cool. And my mom actually works in there now, which is quite crazy. You know, it's, you mentioned something about your upbringing. You said it was just the way it was. It's just how it, you know, you were born into as a culture. Did that give you the edge?

It definitely gave me, no, I was bullied, you know. I had people pick on me and, you know, I remember crying, being scared or whatever. And people pick on me and I even remember telling my dad, again, this is the lifestyle, you know. So it was like, I'm going to tell him my dad, oh, this kid was doing this, doing that. My dad was like, yeah, let's go see him. So my dad would go take me to these kids. Oh, wow. And make me confront them, you know, and I ended up probably give them a slap or whatever,

fighting these kids. That happened quite a few times. My dad would be there, like, like, because there would be a bunch of, I'm always like, I was always on my own or with a couple friends, but no one was really about fighting. And I had people picking or trying or starting something. Tell my dad, that was like, yeah, let's go see him then. And my dad would literally take me to go see these kids older than me, bigger than me.

And be like, go on and you fight my son. But my dad's there now to make sure that it's going to run smooth. Yeah, of course. And I would literally stand there and have scraps in front of my old man, like, let me fight these kids and that were trying to pick on me. Wow. And I would get my way back there, you know. Meet me after school.

I know a bunch of kids meet me up, wanting to like jump me off the school or something. I let my dad know. My dad would come meet me. He'd be waiting high around the corner and he would come meet me and it'd be just me and my dad. Where's the kids that then? Mate, so many times having in the movie theater,

I'm in the movie theater, maybe 10, 15 kids. There are maybe six to 10 rows down in front of me and I see him saying stuff and whatever they was going to do this and do that. So I call my dad, let him know, there's a bunch of kids here. I think they're going to like try and jump me,

you know, when I come out. that would meet me, me and my, be in my pups, be in front of them. Right, boys, who wants to fight my son then? One of one, you can fight him all. All of you can fight my son, but one at a time. One at a time. And they would never want to do it, well.

Because that's crazy. You're strong in a group, but. Right. You know. Right, but they're like, hold on a second. This dad is saying, like, hey, you can find my son. You can all get a turn. Yeah.

It literally was like that. So that's what I know. Why do you think they said no? Because I'll give it to him, mate, you know? Because that scared them. Yeah. Like, oh, he's like, go for it. Yeah.

One of one. No, you can fight my son. Honestly, right, like, he's sitting right there. We'll tell you. Like, it was crazy, man. It was like that, you know. And then, yeah, just one thing less for another, with, you know, a lot of the violent stuff from a jip.

You know, then going to, like, judo and, you know, again, rugby and all these contact sports. And I then, obviously, had my debut fight when I was, like, 16. Obviously, legal rules, you had to be 18. You could headstone. Yeah, you lied about it. Yeah. My first five fights were technically underage, they're illegal, you know.

I had to change my date of birth and my contract. I love it. And yeah, like, yeah, my debut, I was 16. I was at school doing my GCSEs, my exams. I thought a 23 or 24-year-old man, six-foot-four with my debut. You know, I knocked him out cold in like nine seconds, and that was it.

Boom, that just was like, I could do this for a living. That's pretty cool. And that literally is, I'm here now, you know. Yeah, you sat down in your, in your little, was it, rage cage or a cage cage? Yeah. Cage rage contenders.

I thought of cage rage contenders won. That was my debut. Wow. I thought cage rage contenders like two, three, five, seven. Like I was like every couple months. Like I was fighting, fighting, fighting. And then I eventually got, my dream was to fight at cage rage, the main cage rage,

which is like the big deal. And when I was 19, 18 or 19, I had my debut for cage rage. Wembley Arena and Ken Shamrock was on the same fight card. No way. Yeah, bro. That's a wild shit, dude. So as you go bad, that's a mad throwback, bro.

That's nuts, dude. Ken Shamrock was on it and Ken Shamrock's son was fighting. A guy from, he was fighting a guy from London shoot fighters. Okay. So, again, a big renowned gyms where, obviously I'm sure I heard of like Lee Murray and stuff. Back in the day, that's where they was at London shoot fighters. So, so Ken Shamrock's son pulled someone from there and they'll see. I thought a fellow called John Phillips,

who was in the UFC, actually now fights at BKFC. He's a savage Welsh fella, and according to the White Mike Tyson, he throws bombs, mate. Like, yeah, he's savage, you know. It's wild, man. That's wild.

That's a pretty interesting, I mean, I remember, you know, being a kid and, you know, walking out of school and, you know, somebody wanting to jump us. Yeah. We ran our asses off, dude. I was sick around.

I was going, yeah. Come on in, brother. I was like, fine. And just like you, you know, I didn't grow up in the best area, right? I'm from the San Francisco Bay, about 45 minutes east of San Francisco. And there was a lot of bloods around, right? You know, and I go back and look at it.

We went back to California a couple years ago for the summer. I took my wife, my three kids, and I'm like, this is where I live. I'm like, dang, like, wow, dad, you grew up in the ghetto. I'm like, if you, this is a ghetto compared to where you're living. Yeah, this is not the ghetto. I don't getos though. Okay. And there's,

I say, guys, there's worse places here in, in this area than this neighborhood. But, but it's just always interesting because when I was, when I was reading into you, you obviously have said many times that you fought a lot when you were a kid,

but you also stuck up. A kid's smaller than you that were getting bullied. Yeah, that was a big thing, man. Where did you learn that code? Man, I don't know. It's like,

I don't know. Like, whether it's just, like, I just feel I'm a protector, you know. I have seen a lot of violence. I saw a lot of violent stuff with my mom, you know, and ex-boyfriends and stuff like that, you know.

So I've always been one to try and protect or look after and now I know I can, especially now I carry a gun and everything. I can fight, I can shoot, I can do anything and everything, you know. So me as a protector in general, I just feel like it's in my DNA. The same is my father, you know, it's just like we are both like that. If someone's getting, you know, something's going on. It's like two-on-one situation. Like even if the people I don't even know I would normally step it out. I just would step just because I just would

So it's still that way I'm still like that now. Yeah, I'm still like that like yeah I don't like seeing anyone being like taking the bondage of or You know, you know, bullied and then in any way shape or form you know so remember kids like getting robbed at school or like some kids were trying to rob someone at school And they'll come in and they were scared on what and I'll go run after him. I'll chase him. I'll beat the shit out of him like you know I did that's awesome No, it's awesome because it's no don't yeah I hate that. I'm like that. I'll go out of them. I'll chase him. I'll chase him. I'll chase him. I'll I'll just I don't yeah, I hate that. I hate that. I You know, the kids that are getting bullied, man, those are, I mean, they're typically scared. Yeah, of course. Right? They're scared and they don't know what to do, you know, and to have somebody like you come and help them.

I mean, dude. Yeah, majority of problems I got at school was me either defending or sticking up for somebody and then I'd end up having a fight with someone, head biting someone or something at school. And it was all because this kid was getting bullied by these kids at a couple years older. And then I was the one to step in and go, fight me then. now we're bang on it them and be like, fight me.

And the kids are all older than me. So now when those people see you and they see what you're doing, it makes sense to them because you were busting their skulls back in grade school. Back in the day, mate. That's crazy.

We touched on it in the intro, but MMA is one of the hardest sports on the planet. 100%. Not tough enough for you. It was just different, you know? That's a nice way of saying it. It's just different. For example, I've had 30 MLA fights.

I have one rear naked choke win. I don't want to try and choke you out. Don't want to try and snap your arm. Don't want to hit you with a triangle choke or an arm triangle. I want to punch you, drop elbows, you know, stand up on my feet and trade or take you down, get on top of you and lay it, lay in on you. But the taking off the gloves aspect and moving from the MMA

to the bare knuckle. And for me as well, I enjoyed, because boxing is its own thing. From MMA to boxing, and my style in MMA to then the transition from that to boxing was a huge jump. And I respect boxing on such a level, you know, for these people that are super slick and now how to box box, but that is an art of its own. MMA, yes, you can have a bit of everything and a bit of everything and still win fights, you know, decent-ish wrestling, you know, to the, defend takedowns and so forth, you know, have a little bit of hands and some kicks. But with boxing, all you've got is these. Yep.

And with the bare knuckle, it's the same aspect. You've only got these. But like, I'm hitting you with a hard object. I'm getting hit with an hard object. You can't take me down. You can't run away. You can't do anything. You've got to stand there and take punches literally.

So for me, the bare knuckle, and I've had a lot of street fights. You know, me and my dad, the same thing. Used to work the doors. You used to do a lot of bouncing. Like, every two weeks, mate, it's like, you're sleeping someone on the door. Like, it was. It was a lot of violence, man. And, yeah, the fact that that's all you can do

and, like, learning footwork and understand how to actually defend yourself with just your hands, knowing that I can't grab you or necessarily take you down or so forth, it's all footwork and that. And, yeah, you've got to stand and exchange, you know. Yeah. So, so different. And it's very raw. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you're talking about a situation where you can't run from. That's what you prefer. Yeah. I want to be in it. Yep. If we're going to engage, let's engage. We're in it. We're in a deeper, mate.

Let's go out and see who comes out on top. So the thing was with MMA, you just didn't like grappling. It was the grappling aspects and like I had a lot of losses due to submissions and, you know, people just grinding it out on top of me. And it's like, bro, let's go up and fight. Like, this isn't fighting, you know. And it was very frustrating. I had a couple losses that shouldn't have been losses. Referee stepping in, like I got clipped, like dropped or whatever.

And I'm still scrambling. And the referee stops the fight. like, like, I'm fighting. I'm fine. I literally standing up, like, my last MMA fight completely just like, yeah, I got completely robbed of it, you know? And from then on, I was like, F this, F this, F that, through my gloves. I was like, I'm done with this MMA stuff.

That was back in 2018. I remember it all. That was in Detroit, Michigan. That wasn't that long ago. No, it wasn't. No. And then I was like, I'm done with this, you know. So then went to boxing boots and got boxing.

You know, I had my debut boxing fight, completely ruptured my biceptendum from both ends, you know. I kept fighting though, and scored a draw with one arm, which was pretty cool. Yeah, obviously, there was no quit. Yeah, exactly. And then the bare knuckle thing

was becoming more of a thing. And I was like, man, I like, I like, I like, take it back to, take it back to Kidbrook, mate, take it back to the Ferrier son, you know? And then, yeah, I had my debut for Bear Knuckle in 2020 against Tyler Vogel.

And, you know, I'm nine bare knuckle fights in there. and I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. I love it. I love the sport. I love where it represents. I love, just love the rawness of it. And a lot of people talk about, you know,

want to fight or being bare knuckle and, but like, they are pussies, mate. And people get hit with nothing and like fall over. And I'm like, bro, what? Like, it really jars me. But like, and you got people like myself and my last opponent and like, even a bunch of guys have thought that, you know, as tough as I am. But like we'll go out on their shield, mate.

Cut, blood, this, that, and the other. You get knocked down. There's no free knockdown rule. You know, you either choose to get up or you don't. You know, I always choose to get up. Like, I'll go out until I'm either sleeping or physically the doctor has to stop it due to a bad cut or so. Right, of course. I'm in the fight.

I sign the contracts. Like, I'm going to break both my hands, break my face. Let's just fight, you know. Yeah, I mean, you brought up your fight with Russell, you know? Yeah. That was, what, six days ago? Yeah, literally six days ago. Like, full out draw, 25 minutes.

You know, eat that even. They're free, the five twos, 12 minutes, 12 minutes. So it was 10 minute fight, but then we got the additional, and it wasn't even in the contract. So when it was taking a while, I was like, I don't even know what's going to. I was like, I wonder if they're going to give us like a draw right now and see if they, you know.

And I think because the fight was obviously super exciting, there was like, we want more of it. Yeah. You know, and then obviously they asked me, you want to do another round. I'm like, yeah, bro, let's run that shit. Let's go. A minute.

Yeah, you didn't, yeah. Well, any competitor. No, it doesn't matter. Like, we're fighting. I'm not going to be like, oh, no, and take the dub. Because I could have realistically been smart and being like, no, and said no, and the fight would have been a draw, and it wouldn't have been a loss on my record. Right.

But no, I chose to say, yeah, bro, let's fight it out and do another two minutes, and they still obviously gave it to win. But I'm in the fight. Let's fight. That's why I'm there. I'm already in the ring. Let's go. Well, I'm here, right?

Might as well keep throwing. 100%. That's the thing. That's like what you like about it. honest that I'm here, I'm trading with you. If you get an opportunity, you get to do another two minutes, just judging from the first 25 minutes of this conversation, you're like, shit, man, let's go.

Yeah, exactly. It shouldn't have happened, though, right? It wasn't in the contract. Is that part of it unfair? So the only part of it, it's not that the fact that it wasn't in the contractor is what it is. I look forward to seeing what I get in my check, you know, I look forward to seeing what the difference is going to be for that extra round. And, you know, we've got a fight a night bonus and so forth.

So I'm still waiting on that. Let's see what's up there should be this week. But, yeah, I forgot what I was even going to. I was just asking you if it was if that part of it was unfair. Oh, sorry, that was it, my bad. The only part of it, I feel it was unfair. Obviously, you know, I'm on his turf. I'm fighting him.

He missed weight. Like, there was so many, everything was against the whole situation. You know, like, he wanted the fight. He called the shots. I go over to Philadelphia to fight you in front of your people. I'm getting booze coming out. Like, I am the outsider. Mad outsider and I'm like, I don't give a shit

because the end of the day, it's still me and him that's going to be in there. I can hear and people can shout out, do whatever. But the fact, you know, I scored a solid knockdown in the second round cleaners day, you know. So that was a 10-8 round solid. You know, I still find it hard

to really score it up to how they scored it. Do I feel that he had a hometown favoriteism to it? Yeah, you know, that's why they gave it the extra round and so forth. And even the last round, I was finishing up strong with that and they still obviously gave it to him you know it's definitely a fight I need to feel needs to definitely be run back yeah um not in philadelphia I want to even do it in Miami if they don't want it we'll do it somewhere completely mute like neutral from both of us

I don't care but I definitely think that me and him have got to definitely do that again rematch yeah 100% coming and at the end of the day mate it's a it was a fight a night like you could co-main event main event that anywhere and everyone it's going to be electric you know like the fight's an absolute banger so you know you mentioned that you you know you know you mentioned that you knock him down clean second round you were so close does being that close frustrate you even more it does especially i knocked him down and i see harry was getting up and he was getting up like he got up with some of his hands and that and he was like you see he was like i rocked his shit yeah and i was like oh my get this and then you know he docked the out tough cookie like completely

you know hats off to him he was a tough dude i hate him with some clean stuff um But yeah, man, it was, it is very frustrating. But the fact that I scored the knockdown helps me in my favor to know that I've done more damage, you know, he hit me with some shots that, you know, hurt me. But nothing knocked me down. I'm still in the fight. You wouldn't even know that you necessarily rock me or anything, you know. But yeah, the outcome definitely pissed me off a bit, mate.

That's crazy. It's still annoying, but. I mean, I bet, you know, so that that loss ended a five-match win streak for me. Yeah, yeah, literally. So here's a tough question. Ask me. Do you focus more on the five wins in a row or do you focus on the loss?

Oh, the loss. Definitely learn from the mistakes. The wins are the wins. Like my last two bouts, it's like I cracked a dude and knocked him down. It's great. But what did I learn from that? Nothing.

And even I even said to my pups and my coach, like my last two fights, I was expecting, you know, my last fight was a fight. It was an actual fight. And I haven't had one of them in a little minute, you know. So for me, It was like the last two previous fights to this was like, I wouldn't say easy, but it was like, it was like work.

It wasn't like that. No, I got, I got barely touched. I got super unscathed, no marks. My hands were good. And yeah, I stopped the guys and they, you know, they couldn't continue. And it's like, okay, well, I didn't have a fight, you know, whereas this last fight, it's like, yeah, I had a punch up, mate. I had a good scrap. And it's, you know, I was telling my dad, it's like, it's the most, and especially in pain.

as well. After the fight, I come out, I sit down, I'm really changing me. I'm like, and I'm like, I have to say this is like the most alive I feel. Physically how the pain I'm in, my face, my lips are swollen, my ears are swollen, everything sore, my body, and I'm like, oh, like, you have to fight, man. And it is weirdly satisfying. You know, because I'm looking at your face. So we were talking about it before we hopped on on camera and you're like, oh man, I'm actually healing pretty good. For six days, that's quick. No, it's nothing.

That's really quick, yeah. I mean, I've had worse, but this is like, yeah, it's been a breeze. Like the stitches are dissolvables. They're like almost done. Yeah, it looks like I've got a bit of mascara on the eye shadow, whatever you want to call it. Hey, whatever you're into, bro. I'm still pretty, you know what I mean? I'm going to say shit to you because I know what you're capable of.

No, man. Do you guys have common respect between each other? Yeah, me and him was super, super professional. Like, for me, like, for example, there was. a dude on that same fight card, you know, he's known for Frank Canoli's around, you know, literally frowned food. And it's like, I'm not a fucking infant. Like, I'm not one to go in and try and you can sell a fight and stir it, but I'm not here frying food like a child, you know. He's a nice dude and I'm not like disrespecting the dude. Like, it's a gimmick. Yeah, it's a

gimmick. Yeah. That's just not me and how I function. I'm very like, even, again, even down to like in the streets or whatever, I've had fights. We've shook hands and gone separate ways. And I've had done that many of times. And for me, that's just, I feel like that's how you handle business personally. Yeah. So the fact that he was, you know, he was like that he was super, you know, respectful of me and who I, who I was and what I bring to the table. We shook hands beforehand. We had a good fight. We shake hands after. It's all mutual respect. The end of there's business. You know, I'm a competitor. He's a competitor. We're both going to try and win. I don't hate you or he's not like insulted my mother or my father. And it doesn't matter. I'm going to go and

fuck my ass, I'm trying to knock you out, but I'll shut your hand and buy you a pint after if you want, you know what I mean? That's pretty cool. That's just, that to me is professional and I'm very professional in that aspect. I've never, just never been one to shit talk and stir it up. Like, if I'm on a fight card, you know, full well you're getting fireworks. I don't need to sell it and throw food in your face to try and make it more entertaining. Yeah. You know what I mean? How often do you fight? How long between fights? It really varies. Honestly, this year's been super active for me. You know, I've thought and Blood for Blood, May 6th.

You know, I got a stoppage win prior to that towards the end of the year. I can't remember when I fought Leo Carrera. I fought Leo Carrera and then whatever, it was like some odd months later. And then I fought, obviously, May 6th. And obviously, just a quick turnaround, obviously, for this July 3rd.

You know, I was unscathed, no injuries. So they called me up. Do you want the opportunity? They kind of do like America versus England. I was like, fuck, yeah. Let me represent. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

you know so yeah but you know I try and get at least a few in a year but I've had years where I'll get like one fight and you know they don't put me on a fight card and it's like you know I'm always asking for fights and so forth again I've been a single man doing it whereas now you know I'm with volume management shout out to the team and that you know they're definitely going to be pushing and pursuing way getting me way more active other little gigs side deals and other little things you know yeah I want to be active you know so did you start working with all in this year? Literally so recent.

Literally just before this fight, pretty much we signed papers. Oh, that's going to be cool, man. Yeah, because I know Vic and stuff, like he trains with Kevin Gleason and my boxing coach. Okay. My boxing coach has actually got a gym like in his warehouse. It's like the new setup.

So like I see Vic all the time and he's super cool. And he's never pressed me like, oh, when you're going to sign me or anything. You know, we'd had a mutual chitchat about it. And I've always been um and R in because every manager I've had, I fired because it's like, you know, you're not pulling sponsors. you're not putting in this like nothing's really happening like why am i giving you a percentage over this for what you know and i've always been like that so then i've always fired every manager i've had and i try and do it on my own but when you're a one-man army trying to do that it's it's hard

you know like my last couple of fights i should be making way more money and i haven't so now i'm like listen i need i need i need i need the help and everyone sees the you know the potential with me and what i bring to the table so it's like let's start getting me some like good deals and make some real money now you know i'm going to be very vulnerable right now oh brov say and do have you please you just helped me come to terms with something that i have been struggling with for the last year i hope i'll click click to switch for you that the whole management thing you've fired every manager when people like us that are independent have a brand manager

or have someone like that I mean agents are different my agency is great I'm with CAA shout out to Anez Maza CIO's great but when you have a brand manager I cannot tell you how many times

and even in my own personal experience you talk about how great you are and what they can do for you and then the moment they get the opportunity where is everything that you just Don't they estad de Nero, right? Like, why is it all of a sudden so hard to sell me when you were selling me on selling? You're selling me to me.

Exactly. Like, bitch, I already know. Like, I get it. But no, it's, again, and I'm not beating every. Yeah, but I'm not beating any of them up, right? I'm just saying, like, obviously, that's a thing. It is. You know, I thought it might have been personal.

I thought maybe something was wrong with me or something, you know, maybe I'm not doing something right. But it seems to be a thing. And it's interesting because I think there's a lot of independence, whether it's fighters or just creators in general, that are struggling with that. Because I've got a solid brand. Like, Brutal is my brand.

You know, I've got a Brutal OLC, brutal industries. Like, I am brutal. Everyone knows me. People call me by Brutal. Like, I'm known for that. And yeah, it's like the concept of it and who I am, what I represent, you know, I am a protector. You know, I'm always trying to,

put the right direction for like like younger the younger generation you know like stay hard in the gym you know don't be doing this don't be doing that you know it's all about discipline and you know like be the best version of yourself and so forth and I feel who and what I am and what I represent is a is a is a good niche you know sure yeah I'm tough and hard and like yeah I'll smash up everyone in this room if I have to I just hope you don't have to leave me out of it because you know we're cool man You know, but Oscar? I mean, do you? But it's like, you know, but like, again, it's like, you know,

that just being able to flick the switch to be able to do so. But other than that, man, I'm all smiles. I wear my heart on my sleeve, you know, I love my cats. And I'm all nice. You're a cat guy? I'm a cat man, bro. No way. What kind of cat?

I've got a fat black cat. It's just a fat black cat. That's a good breed. His name's Salem. And then I have a blue tip siamese, you know, Saint and Salem. I've had one cat in my whole life. Oh, really? It was one of those Persian cats.

Okay, beautiful though. Amazing. I named them Cartman from South Park. A Cartman, I love that. That's awesome. I'm a dog guy, though. Yeah. No, I get it.

My parts is a dog guy. Like, it's just for me, a lot of traveling, a lot of this, lot of that, dogs just need way more maintenance. I can leave my cat for a couple days. They can have food, water. They've got their toilet, mate. Do you know what I mean? So for me, it's just, again, not the convenience,

but just cats are just, it's a different love. I've had cats in my life since I was like nine. Well, you have to earn their love. Yeah. It's not like a dog. It's different. It's very different. You get a different bond with a dog

just because they're just bigger and more into you. Just like, you know, you're going out, you play fetch, do this, do that, going on walks and so forth. But with the cats, same thing. I come home. The cats were over me. Yeah.

That's awesome. It's like animals in general, man. I'm going to back up, though, because you said toilet. You said toilet. When you were talking about a cat. Yeah, the toilet. Like the litter box?

Rast room. No, no, no, no. I'm not making fun of the way you speak. Okay, okay. I'm not, I'm dumb, but I'm not that dumb. I'm asking, are you saying your cat goes in the toilet? No, no, it goes in a little box. I haven't part of you trained them.

I know. I know people have done that. I know. And honestly, it's not that difficult and it makes so much sense how they do it. It's really simple. Have you seen how they do it? Well, there was a thing on Shark Tank of one of the city kitty or something like that. Honestly, it's really basic.

So literally, imagine putting a litter box inside of the toilet bowl area. And then remove it. And then eventually it gets smaller. that's what it is in there's layers. Wow. And then they have like litter in the whole thing. And then there's a hole in the center and there's litter around the outside.

And then it gets wider, wider, wider to the point where there isn't no litter and they jump up on the toilet and pee and poop in straight into the bog. Here's an interesting thing. I heard there's an issue though with that. Like they bring some bacteria and it's not good for the humans.

I don't know. I mean, I don't have a cat. I'm not going to do. Man, we're in the weeds, huh? That's great. Hey, you know what? Conversations are like that. Then we circle back around.

We just, we do this. Yeah, yeah. That's cool, though. Cats. Interesting. Cats are cool, man. What are their names? Saint and Salem.

Saint and Salem. Okay, I knew Salem, but not Saint. Yes, yeah, Saint. So Saint is, so Saint is he the Siamese? He's the Siamese, yeah. Cool, cool, cool. They're both super cool, man. That's awesome.

How old are they? Salem must be, I think, nearly seven or eight. I think it might be nearly eight. I'd have to really do my digging. About eight, and Saint must be six, and a half, seven. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I had two cats back in London with my mom and they lived to like 19. They were like, yeah, they lasted a nice little while. Damn. Same thing. There were two tabby cats. That was Tillian, Rosie.

Tilly and Rosie. Yeah. And yeah, they were just adorable. And that was me. Yeah, that was my first ever two cats from young. And then I've just loved cats inside. Well, hey, that's awesome. I don't dislike them.

No, I don't dislike them. But I just don't like doing the litter box thing. Again, it's a preference. For me, it's pretty simple. But, you know, for others, they're like, ugh. You know, I use litter crystals rather than the clumping stuff. Again, man, it's just like little scoop, scoop done. And I've had the electric stuff.

I've tried this, tried that. I just manually, like, if I'm at home, man, just scoop, scoop, it's just like. I didn't see you. Easy, yeah. Conversation dynamic, man. You know? Yeah. This is pretty cool.

Punch people in the face and talk about scooping up catch it. But no, that's the cool part about it. I would have never thought you were a cat guy. I would think like, this motherfucker's got like a, like a pit. Like pits are great. A beautiful.

Oh my God. They're like nanny dogs. They're amazing. I figured you'd have one of those like scary massifs. Like I don't even know what they're called, but they're just, they look like mean. But anyway,

I digress. The first time as a bare knuckle fighter, when your fist landed flesh on someone's skull, what did that feel like? What was your body telling you at that time? Honestly, I was a bit like, I'll tell you what, my first experience, what I genuinely remember from that, not even my fist, but it was me getting hit.

And I actually mentioned it to one of your boys earlier. I remember getting jabbed, just a jab, and it got jabbed in the mouth. And it completely, like, ripped my lip open. And I was like, and it felt like hard. It was hard. And I'm being like, yo, like, this is different. Yeah. And I remember I exchanged some shots.

I remember landing some clean punches. And it did. kind of reminded me of like back in a day street fire. When you'd hit someone super clean, the hard shot, but you wouldn't feel it. But it would be like connection, bing. And he would like rock them up, you know. I do remember that since I was back in 2020, you know.

Okay. So I've had, you know, I've had a bunch since that. You've been hit a bunch of times since that. Yeah, I've had a lot of punches me. Wow, man. I'm pretty blessed though. I've had brain scans and that. I remember the first time back in 23 was my first ever like MRI

with and without contrast on my brain. and I was actually a little nervous. Because I've had so uptake. I've been doing this since 2006 was my debut fighting. Okay. And I've sparred, you know, I've had then dog fights in the gym, mate, with some tough people. Like, I've sparred with everyone, mate.

Like anyone and everyone you'd think of, I've done rounds with it. And I'm like, I hope my brain's good. Well, that was one of my questions to you. It's like, okay, MMA. And I'm smart with sparring now, though. Okay. I'm really smart with sparring now. Like, if I'm doing something,

It's never anything crazy. I don't take real much damage in the gym anymore. Like I haven't. My last three fighters, I've had no sparring. Literally, I didn't spar. Really? Because one of my initial thoughts were like, I wonder what is relationship with the brain long term?

Like, how does he... And it's because of that factor. It was, which makes me nervous because the majority of the damage and stuff is done is in the fucking gym, mate. And it really is. And I've seen people, prime example, fellow with Jerry Beltram,

you know, respect to his dude, mate. I feel for him, but like he speaks like this now. And he's like, I remember him a few years back, training in the gym. And in the gym, bro, getting lit up, punches to the head. And I'd even tell his sparring partner, the people that I knew would be like, like, yo, stop it in him in the ear, like him in the body. Like it's just like watching it made me feel sick. It's like, like, bro, just head around a football.

You're killing brain cells, let alone blows. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And you see it and I've seen it. And it literally makes me feel uncomfortable, man. Like, it's horrible. Is it just the repeatable, like, just the repeating of this, like over and over and over and over. You're kidding brain every time, bing, bing, their cells just boom, boom, boom. The inflammation on the brain and this and that and then you're going to have issues with this later.

And then with that later. Yeah, that punch drunk shit, mate. Yeah, like, listen, don't care how big and tough you are. It's a brain. It's your brain, man. And once that's damaged, it's done. It's a minute that, listen, I love fighting. I genuinely love it, enjoy the violence and, you know, being able to really express when I fight.

But the minute I'm told, like, you know, I have like a detached retina or saying with my eyes or saying that are going to affect my hearing on my brain, like, I'll respectfully won't fight. So you have perspective. I'm not a fucking idiot, mate. Oh, that's good, man. I'm not stupid. I'm like, oh, fighting is my life. And, like, totally, totally granted.

I'll take my aggression out wherever, mate. I'll go start pulling, I'll try and pull 800 pounds sumo in the gym. That'll be my next challenge. You know what I mean? I'm not, I'm not worried about, you know, going out of my shield that much that I'm going to now be a fucking vegetable. Yeah. That doesn't entertain me the slightest.

He generally worries me, you know, like it does. I would imagine, right? I mean. And because I've been doing it for so long. That's the, see, that's the thing, too. But there's that aspect of it. But then there's also the aspect of the idea. identity.

Right? So it's like when you're done fighting, right? And when I was done playing baseball, I held on to that role. Like I didn't know who I was without baseball, right? And so for me, when that ended, it was a, it was a, I get it.

I remember I had almost like a year of no fighting. I had no, nothing there's no, I didn't have no sign with anything. I had no fights coming up, no nothing. And I was like, okay.

And then I was like really pursuing getting my DMG license. I'm all, you know, I work my firearm and stuff. stuff and I was spending a lot of time investing into that. I'm like, in my head, I'm like, am I going for a crisis now? Am I going to be done with a fighting?

And, you know, and it was, it was like, weird. It was like, I felt like I was losing my identity. Because everyone knows me as brutal boss with this Ben Ackerfire. And it's like, if I ain't that, then who am I? And I understand it. And sadly, like, this thing obviously, that haven't been like dusting recently. You know, obviously, you know, mental stuff and this, that and that going on. It's like, I understand it.

I do. And especially of someone of that caliber, you know, bro, like, you're at the top of the ladderball, bro. Like, you are Dustin Porre. You know, and then if you are not doing that anymore, then yeah, there's going to be an identity issue there. You know, whether you've got all the money in the world or not. It doesn't matter. You know, money does not buy your happiness. Money gives you freedom, allows you to do stuff with, but it don't buy you warmth and happiness.

It doesn't. Money's just a tool. It is. You know, when that happened, and I saw it, and I had a completely different reaction than most people, and I'm like, clearly you did too. People were talking about it,

and you see the people online, you know, the people would never say that to his face. No. I looked at it, I'm like, these people don't understand what this man's going through. His father's done everything, right? And I saw it, and I was like, man, I feel for that, dude.

I loved the first thing I did. And that people laughed at him. oh my god did you see that I'm like yeah man like that's not good bro that's not good that's not healthy no it's not and it's not him right do you know I'm saying like that is that's someone who is lost and confused and like trying to figure out his shit like obviously like clear as day like that is what it is I'm seeing I'm not stupid you know but then and again as a fighter as an athlete I say more so understand it then you got like these regular civilians that you know have a normal

nine to five and they're talking their nonsense but it's like you don't know nothing like you stick to sitting on your desk doing whatever like you don't get it like you won't understand that you never ever understand his mindset and what he is as a person and harry's evolved as a man like you don't you don't have a clue and that moment doesn't remove that either not that's i mean that that that that was a moment no 100% and i still have the exact same respect for him mate i think dustin's an absolutely legend he's the nicest dude mate he's such a such a sweet sweet man you never met him but um i'm sure i will because we're all in the circle right our boy drew and all that good stuff and but i mean he's a louisiana boy yeah no he grew up in the ghetto bro yeah i mean you know he's like

the only white boy around like he grew up in the hood bro yeah you know that's what he knows i spent four years in louisiana i love louisiana but but again it's like when you when you see things transpire like that. Whether it's a football player, whether it's a fighter, the everyday person that's never been an athlete or anything like that, like at a high level, cannot even think about putting themselves in a perspective to where they can understand where any man or woman is at and why they're acting out like that.

See, especially a fighter. Because now, because at that moment, not knowing, who am I? But now I got to protect. Now I got to defend. And the only way I know how to defend. Go back to what you know, bro. Because that was the glory. It was best in the world.

Of course he's going to go there. Right? Of course. That's what he knows. Yeah. I actually got a funny story. I quickly throw out there about Dustin. One of, I was in,

because I've done a few fight camps with Jake Paul. And when he fought Tyrone Woodley the first time, We was in, was it in Ohio? I think it's where he's from. I think it was over there in Ohio. Anyway, long story short, we're in the changing room. Logan's there. Everyone's there.

There's a few other celebrities and that packed, packed thing, right? Dustin Poree comes in a room, you know, about 10, 15 yards. And I'm sitting on the couch. We're all similar dress. We have bright orange on Team Hall. And he comes in and, bro, he literally looked at me. He went, oh, Bosswick. bro, I stood up because obviously you remember me from Phil and from 80s here.

I said, I was, yeah, what's good? My brother? I has everything. As good. That's life. And everyone's looking like, I don't know. What do they know each other? But I have to say, that was one of my biggest flexes in that specific moment.

I was like, that was really cool, man. Oh, hell yeah, it's cool, man. He was like, oh, because it was a familiar face. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that was pretty cool. But yeah, I tell people about it. I was like, yeah.

And then when Dustin come in, I was the first person said hello to. I was like, that's pretty neat. Well, that's also, because now you're. sitting there in that room with the low you know with you know Jake and Paul it's like yeah that's street cred bro yeah it's crazy well I've had I've had a bunch I've had like four four or five comes with with Jake now like you know so wow yeah crazy that's pretty cool man what's it like being around that guy a little bit of circus isn't he honestly like in person like on camera off camera like he's cool no you know he's you know he's you know he's you know he's you know he's you know

shake me out like this is this how's that you know we don't hang out like boys yeah we never really have, you know. But yeah, and I in the gym, he's cool, mate, especially like, you know, I was obviously there more just as a sparring partner, you know, joining him with other training sessions and that, but I was always giving him a good look like when he fought Tyrone Woodley or the best, the best matchup that I think he had and I gave him the best work for was when he fought Mike Perry, you know, I was in the full camp for that down to the last bar, I don't know where that fight took place, but they flew me over on the jet with them and that was

really cool, you know. But yeah, no, they're cool people. Like his mom and that, I remember I was at his mom's house. And I've got to, like, where's the candy? You go take me, you go grab some chocolates and that? And like, his parents are cool. His dad reminds me of my dad, like, he don't give a shit, mate. Someone says, like, what?

What, you, mate? I'm people trying to come into the changing room. And I'm standing there. We're gonna, like, fight people, like, coming in. It was like that. And I was like, I got your dad. He was like, yeah, say, oh, fuck, get back, get back. I'm like, yeah, this is what dad said, like, you know.

It was cool. Oh my God. But no, they're cool people. They're very smart. Oh, brother. They're very good. They've been great at what they do for. Listen, people can talk their shit.

Everyone can say to whatever, bro. He is laughing, mate. Oh, dude. They're living in it. They're geniuses, dude. Yeah, super smart. Like, you know, build that hatred. Yeah, everyone wants to see me lose.

Cool. And much we fight then. And everyone's like, but that's the thing. That's what that's what. That's what nobody understands, though. Bro. But I also understand it.

Well, yeah. I, people like us, get. It's like, it's like, it's so smart. But most people like, oh, my God, these people, these, you know, this and they're that. I'm like, no, no, no, no. There's two types of people when it comes to them. You either love them or you hate them. Yep.

If you love them, you want to watch them win. If you love them, you want to watch them lose. Either way, you're watching, they win. Either way. It doesn't matter. Smartest thing ever. Oh, smartest thing ever. Wasn't that smart against Joshua breaking your face, but, you know, that was a bad one,

wouldn't it? Honestly, I knew when I was watching that, before that fight, you know, because all, you know, all respect to Jake and that, but I was like, bro, I was like, there's no way he can beat Joshua. I was like, I don't know what their contracts say. I don't know nothing. I was like, I'm just hoping to see a solid AJ

fighting Jake because I want to see that because that's what everyone wanted to see. And then we saw that, you know, I still, you know, adds up to Jake for even attempting, do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. But, you know, it just definitely showed the caliber. It's balls, man.

Yeah. That was hard to watch. That was, that point at the end. But the same thing, though. Tune in to watch it though. Yeah, of course I did. Absolutely, man. It was entertaining.

Oh, 100%. You know? It kind of reminded me back in the day when Don King was around. Yeah, right. This was actually kind of cool now. It's like relevant. And even what he's done for the sport and like, you know, the women's boxing and like, just everything.

Like he's brought so much financial business to so many people. Not me. I never got a solid, solid opportunity. You can see how much I've worked with them, you know. but at the same time it's like yeah it adds us to you for you know you have helped a lot of people especially with the the bullying um the bullying jims that he's got and he's got a lot of kids and stuff there you know so it's good well that's awesome yeah you know um you started something with phil de ru what what's the actual name of the it's um bare knuckle your your school um it was um

Bear knuckle. It was a brutal bare knuckle program. Yeah, that's right. I think it was a brutal bare knuckle program. Are you still running up with them? No, we done that. We done that program a couple years back. I mean, it's still, I think it's still, yeah,

still up and running. And honestly, the information that you're going to get from it for any athlete is great. You know, it is really good. But, you know, we chopped it. quite recently I think we're gonna get back working do some more stuff again together like I love working with Phil just again the last couple of fights have been a little bit close

and I only had like some odd weeks and he was up in Port St. Lucy just I just kind of stayed doing what I was doing you know my simple movements and what I would do but yeah I definitely want to get about doing some stuff with him because no down to the content the training aspect of it just being around him in general like we have we know our content done some of the best views and everything anyway. It's great. It's really, really good work. You know, if anyone watching is, ah, he's fine.

He's a dude. He's a dude. He's awesome. He's a good lad man. He's a good. Oh, he is. Did he tell you that he took me through a training, a training program? I think he said, I think he did say he works with you. How was that? Bro. It's so embarrassing. He took me through a mobility workout. He felt like a bitch, right? A massive. It's crazy, right? Oh, and then let's finish up on the assault bike. Oh, bro. Listen, he'll be telling me that. I'm good.

in the fingers telling you, brother. I'll do it, but I talk mad shit in the gym. The mobility side of it, you just don't know how important that is and how hard it is. Simplest things, like stuff with that adapter and you're like at an angle doing something and it's like so difficult. Yeah. And it's body weight. I'm like, yo, it's crazy.

Just like, he's like, hey, your nervous system shot. I'm like, excuse me? Am I dying? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, well, you're on this wall and you're shaking already. It's just a genius. Yeah. Now he's super smart, mate.

Down to, I've got him working with Timberland. You know, Timbaland was my client for many years. And, bro, I remember Phil got him walking better. Walking, walking. Wow. Just walking, bro. Just making him pay attention to the details with his big toe, little toe, how to stand on the ball of his foot,

how to walk, shoulder, posture, this, that, that, this. Like, completely changed, you know, how Timbo holds himself, moves. around functions and it's just down to small details it's not necessarily no I knew a lot of the work but it was like that's not my forte yeah I'm a boxing coach and you know movements and that but when it comes to real details I'm like yeah feels your guy man that yeah and he helped him a lot that he's really good what um what do you think Phil sees in you that you don't see in yourself man what I don't see in myself hmm I'm not sure um I know

I know he definitely, I know what he does see in me. I know he sees, you know, my grit determination, you know, how I am as a person, how I carry myself, my image, everything. Like, I know I bring a lot to the table as a, as a package. I can't, I couldn't necessarily say what he sees that I don't. I'm definitely not taking advantage of my markability. I know that for, full well. What do you mean by that?

like I make zero money online in any way, shape or form, whether it's, you know, again, like, I'd, you know, I say I dislike socials. I just don't really like socials, you know, but posting on the content aspect of it, like there should be definitely a revenue where I should be making money, whether it's just clicks or views in general, like YouTube,

you know, TikTok, Instagram, all of that. I should be just marketing myself like that where there is a way that, you know, I'm bringing in, you know, a cash flow, which I don't, I don't take advantage of anything like that. And I know the potential and I know I've got to just pull my finger out and again, just have a bit of help with guidance. But I still haven't done that.

You know, I'm 36 going 37 this year and I'm still trying to figure that out. It's kind of crazy, you know. But I know there's people that can do that for you. No, I know. Right. Because you're the performer. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Right? It's hard for people that are the front facing to build things like that. but it's your birthday yeah 37 yeah we're 37 October 28 is my birthday yep same oh you're same birthday brothers bro

I'm October 28 but I'm I'm turning 47 no no I'm turning 48 damn you're getting old son oh listen you look amazing thank you man I appreciate you look up you look I'm same birthday I know man I saw that I was looking at it I was like damn no way

I don't know many people like like yeah I've come across a few people literally like yeah free people yeah my son is three days later oh my son's on Halloween my dad's a week my dad's November 9 no way yeah so he's a Scorpio too we're a we're an interesting group of people yeah definitely so definitely interesting oh no he's a great another October 28 again no they're lying I swear to God bro ladies and gentlemen here's three people in this room that is that has the same bra wow I didn't not know that wow we're gonna have to do something it's a power house room right now

Man, man, it's a powerhouse room. Ooh, man. It's spiteful in it with Scorpio. Holy shit. That's crazy. No wonder this room's been heavy today, man. That's crazy. Three Scorpios, same birthday?

That's insane. No, it is really cool, man. I know, so now I just doubled how many people I know with the same birthday that's me. That's crazy. But there's only been, you know, two others that I can think of. Throughout my whole life. No. And then here I am today.

Yeah, man. My ex. My ex has got the same birthday. No way. Yeah. That was super random. That's really. It was a sign in that.

Obviously didn't work. That was your sign? But that was my sign. Oh, yeah. Oh, same birthday. Yeah, it's not going to work. Yeah,

you know. No, I was like, that's going to be great. But no, it just, yeah, it was just different views on life,

you know, so. But yeah, it's crazy. And then one of my good friends, client slash friend, yeah, he's the same thing.

Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So when you, when you brought up relationships, have you ever lost anybody you love because they couldn't stand

to watch you do what you do. Not because of the sport. No. I feel anyone I've been with enjoy what I do. You know, majority of females love, you know, a fighter or, you know, a manly man. So, you know, and that kind of thing.

But because of the fighting, there's never been an issue. Like, oh my God, I can't watch it. No. Okay. No, I'm normally like, I get pampered, looked after, after, yeah, I'm chilling. Yeah. I see your game.

I see why you do it. Now we know why he fights. Look after me. That's all my ribs. Exactly. My ribs hurt. Yeah, the floating rib. Exactly.

So, yeah, no, I never lost anything due to that. That's cool, though, man. You know, you were talking about the pain you felt after this last fight. Is that the only time you've ever felt that way? Because, like, here's what I'm wondering. Like, if I go to the gym and I'm doing the whatever that's stupid trap bar, you know, You're doing a killer workout. Yeah.

Well, yeah. I mean, you know, trying. Yeah. And I hurt my back. That ride home and probably for the next week. Harts like hell. Dude, I'm at the age if I step off a freaking curb wrong, I'm screwed. Yeah, I'll see what I'm saying?

Like, oh shit, there goes my back. Yeah. What is it like with your body? Like, after no one's around, just you and the punishment that your body is taking. Again, it's very different from. I've had them gym sessions where they're killer and I leave their fatigue and everything's aching and so forth. It's different. That's self-inflicted.

I've just done that and it's training. I've not necessarily taken damage. Whereas after the last fight, I get to a change room, I have a rinse off in the shower, sit down in the chair and I'm like, and then like I feel everything lumps in my head, my face, my lips, my ears, ribs, my shoulders. my hands have swore everything it's like i've been to battle you know like i've had to stand and fight and battle so it's it's just it's just different again under the spotlight in front of thousands of people um you know with the pressure or whatever it's very um yeah that i feel like i've only ever really experienced that sensation after like a hard fight you know um yeah

more or so would say is that again I've had crazy gym sessions and still left and yeah okay still feel alive like I'm sore my legs are dead I've been running the stadiums at FIU like running stadiums I'm like still dying my legs are thinking I'm wobbling walking back home and like them sessions

same kind of aspects is you know it's still it's rewarding it's a rewarding pain it's like you know I've done this to myself I could have starts but didn't I carried on I really wanted to quit but I didn't you know Same with running miles. I hate running. But bro, like, I run my miles and I'm like so proud I've gotten done.

And it's that rewarding sensation. So after a fight, tough fight and you feel pain from literally head to toe and everything's aching. And it's like, we eat really fight, man. Yeah. That was pretty cool. Yeah. It's like it's the best way I can explain it.

It's just like you do, you just feel alive like I've just had a battle. That's incredible, man. How do you recover? Like, what's your recovery routine? you mate next day my so I had obviously a couple stitches and I had like another little hole but because of the inflammation it was constantly leaking blood so I had to keep wiping it wiping it and then I woke up that morning and I was like pops like I'm really trying like lay in the bathtub or something like my whole body was just like I just like I just need like soaking the bath and I laid

in the bar and my dad ran the bath for now it was like six seven in the morning and I went laid in the bathtub in the hotel and I was like ah ha and I laid and then I started sweating and then because of the sweating, obviously it's helping with the inflammation. So then my eye stopped leaking because there's not much pressure. And then the next day or the day after, I'm in the hot tub. Like, I've still got blood and stitches. I'm in the sauna, steam room, like sweating, dabbing my face with a towel. But for me, that's been the best recovery I've ever done is from after a fight

with the inflammation is just swearing it out. I'm saying, keep your stitches dry and this. I don't care, I don't care, I don't know. I don't get shit. I'm in the sauna, sweating, drinking my gallon. sweating away and I know I'm instantly getting skinnier so I know there's going to be less pressure because again I've been here before when I've had my face like you know a lot of swelling of course and yeah I remember after Julian Lane fight I had crazy stitches I had like a yeah I had

multi stanchet stitches I had a big one a couple up my forehead and the inflammation of my face was gnarly that that fight I did took a lot of damage I literally was like a day or two after I had a full sweatsuit on beanie is outside in this temperature like in the night is I'm just like walking the streets, just sweating, I was like bleeding down my face, like the stitches are crazy. I literally like bleeding and everything, but I was like, I didn't care. I felt so much better for it. I can just imagine driving by you at that moment.

I'm like, what the hell is going on with this, dude? Man, you got a rough one. But it really, really, really, genuinely does help. As soon as I got out of the bathtub, I was like, my face stopped leaking. I was like, oh, there's less pressure. I just dropped like three, four pounds, you know, easy just sitting in the bathtub real quick. Sweating.

Yeah. And it's like, I feel better for it. Dude, you brought up another fight. Like after, you know, you just,

and probably the Avila fight. We haven't talked about that. Yeah. What is it? Okay, that, you were getting ready to go out there and fight. Mm-hmm.

And then a bomb threat was called in. Oh, that fight. What is it like, dude? Because, like, you have to, like, cool down and.

Yeah, that was really frustrating. We ended up, I went outside. It was freezing cold. I had like little shorts on. I had a hoodie on. And then I was cold,

mate. And I was like fighting next or whatever. And we was outside for a good hour. I was asking the police. I was like, yo, can we sit in the police car? I'm freezing.

I've got to fight. My hands were blue. I was like cold. It was in Tennessee, right? Nashville. Yeah, yeah, it was in Tennessee.

And yeah, I'm sitting in the back of a police wagon just trying to like stab it warm so there's no breeze. That was really frustrating. We were told twice that the fight weren't going to happen. I was crying. I was upset about it.

Oh, my God, frustrated. And then we then got into the venue and everything. and then saying something else happened and then it was like okay maybe it's not and then eventually we get let back into the venue literally bro we go in i'm still shaking from cold and they're like Jake right sit we've got to go we got get your hands wrapped i'm like what sorry what boom sat down wrapping my hands this at any other i'm trying to warm up and it was just so back back back to back like it wasn't great mentally yeah it was like a fire draw it was so jarring mate swat came in and everything it was

like it was a big ordeal that was frustrating you know I lost that fight points up yeah I did I didn't fight well but it was just yeah it was very mixed emotions that day very up very down and then up again and down again and then we're outside it's like yeah it was just a mess was there at any point you were a little bit scared about what was gonna happen or did you just kind of realize this as in bomb wires and all of that yeah the bomb all that stuff none of that but I was like no I think it's the low shit I was I didn't trust what the information was.

Yeah. You know, I was like, really someone was the blow up influencers? Oh, shut up. No, there's definitely more important people that you could be like trying to bomb, you know. It seems like a lot of effort.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was like just hearsay rubbish and, you know. But it was frustrating. When you're getting ready for a fight or just like when you're, like, you know, from the MMA to the boxing and then transitioning to bare knuckle, how do you condition your hands to take that kind of pressure? So honestly, especially with the bare knuckles stuff,

I train a lot with that gloves. you know do a lot of bag work about get sandbag a lot of punching sandbag um you know and i broke my hands a lot of you know um cartly like a lot of like extra like bone really in my hands anyway and my hands my hands have been a bit messed up i broke my right hand like nine times and my left hand four times really i've dealt with a lot of breaks and fractures and i've had nine bare knuckle fights i think i may have fractured my hand once other than that like i don't break them in bare knuckle which is kind of surprising honestly i would think so yeah super but i think just again years of fighting in general a lot of just punches in general you know my hands have taken a lot of damage you know so they are

just tougher in general you know yeah so but a lot of sandbag work a lot of you know bag work without gloves like oh train do a full training session i take my gloves off and i do like a few rounds on the bag no gloves you know and you know you got to make sure you're hitting the bag correctly because you can hit the bag in a funny way because you don't ever want to cut your knuckles because then you get infections and stuff like and then I can't really do much other training with cut knuckles so I have to wear wraps and gloves and everything

so you try and not scratch or scuff your knuckles so when people are hitting bags again just for anyone that does want to do that pay attention to the seams on the bag now if it's got a lot of seams or patches and stuff like that you glance them mate I've ripped knuckle I've ripped skin off all of my hands you know

yeah of course again just try to an error and learning but yeah don't want to be hitting the seams on the bags or anything where they're stitching and stuff because yeah it will just it'll tear you up I'll take the skin off like no yeah and then you gotta wait for that to heal

and then you're trying to train and your knuckles are bleeding everywhere and it's sore like it's really sore it's just like it's annoying pain yeah yeah it hurts but it's like not enough to get you in tears it's like it's not like a deep anything it's just like a few lads of skin

but I'm punching it and it constantly cracking and they're really heals and yeah it's just just pain in the ass you're the one thing that you've that you touched on earlier I asked you a question a while ago and I asked you, what do you hold on to more? The win or the loss?

And you said the loss. And the follow-up was because that's where you learn the most. And I completely agree. I appreciate that because I share in that. I don't want to talk about the wins. Because nothing went wrong. Everything was close to perfect as it could possibly be. There's no outcome that I can change.

But has fighting for so long taught you how, how to embrace the losses or losing early on. And that was kind of your process. Do you think you have a different perspective in it? I have a way different perspective now. The fact that I'm just older and more mature and I understand in the aspects of the game, because the end of the day it's a game.

You know, like fighting, you know, it's a very 50-50 thing. You know, you can come out on top or you can't. Yeah, the wins are great. Everyone loves a win. Everyone wants a win. I want to win. I'm pissed. I just lost this fight.

But I'll still watch that fight with how close it was and still be like, I could have done this better, could have done that better. I already watched it back and I'm like, man, I should have circled out way more when he was pressuring me on the ropes. I should just circle that better. Already just instantly,

and I've still got to watch it more and really study it because I haven't had the time to, because it's not been up yet. But from what I have seen, I'm like, damn, bro. Like, I still could have made that fight look better, perform better and made him look less good, you know, and done better wise because there was already faults

where I'm like, man, like, pressure him up on the ropes. Like, I should have just circled out and hit him away from me and then kept that distance rather than letting him get into my chest and do his little body rumble. Not really doing much, but like he's doing something. And it looks like he is doing something. Because he's still being that kind of active. And he's doing more than what I am.

And I'm now hitting with some upcuts to the face. I'm still cracking him in the head. But like, he's looking all busy. But like, you're not doing nothing. And I'm circling that. And then eventually I would, I'll get off. Or the referee would stop us. So we just like, I'll just hold him.

I'm like, what are we doing? Yeah. You know. But there was a few things there where I could have had that happen less. And I could have, it just would have been better on my perspective. Like, it just would have been better for me, you know. I love your relationship with that because it's a constructive thing. A lot of people, when they lose something, they go down the rabbit hole of,

I'm just not that good or poor me because they're looking for a reaction out of somebody. The thing that I really enjoyed about everything that you said today, is you truly look inward. I'm very honest. What can I learn from this, man? I just think it's so important. And for like everyone listening, like I really hope that if they don't take anything else away,

that they look for the things that they can improve on, and focus on that part, not the scoreboard or the, what the loss means, that you're not as good as the other person or, you know. I should have won this and, and they bitch and moan about it. Like, no, bro.

like you got to look at the full picture, see where you kind of may be messed up or what maybe steered it more towards a judge, you know, and like, how did I mess up? What did I do wrong? Like what could I have done better? Right. That's how I'm going to grow and get better

is figuring out what I did was nonsense or didn't work, bro. Yeah. That is it. It's not, yeah, it was great. Yeah, it was great. I knocked him down in the second round. Yeah, it was super awesome.

I feel like that was my round. Yeah. But then it was other things where I'm like, you know he did a bit more of this and I should have done that more or so forth but like yeah from the losses and that like that is really that is the only place that you will learn it really is you know that you're you're correct but the sad thing is man is that's not where everybody goes no and then they keep reliving it's like ground hop yeah of course they bitch and moan about it as if like they did and ah this and that and oh I should have this and oh that's not you know that's just kind of learn man shut up right got to learn if you lost the

you lost of fire like what did you do wrong like work on that you know really is that can cling absolutely look man over the last hour and 15 20 minutes or however long we've been in this amazing conversation dude thank you for this this has been incredible your whole story and everything about you screams the word determination you know we are the determined society of course and to break it down if you were how to define the word determination what does it mean to you Are you willing, determination, I think, are you willing to throw all your eggs in the basket to pursue something that you want and want to take? I think you've either all in or you're all out. And it's kind of my mindset anyway, you know, you can't really half, and you can't half ask this game anyway.

Yeah. You know, but if I was to sit and think about it in that aspect, I would definitely say determine. in, it's like going out on your shield and being determined to do whatever it takes to, you know, come out on top. Absolutely, man. Well said, dude. I appreciate you. I understand it.

I'm all, I'm with it, bro. Thank you again for coming. Thank you so much. It's been amazing. Dude, we'll have to get up on her birthdays, man. Yeah, 100%. Just across the alley. Yeah, 100% we'll get everybody together.

We'll do something. I mean, we've got someone else to join us as well. Yeah, exactly. I'll bring me up. And he's moving here. Oh, yeah? Yeah, so Oscar's going to be around. There you go.

Perfect. We'll take him out. Yeah. That's what I'll give you a good time in Miami. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he just went like this. He's excited. Say less.

Yep, he's ready. He's ready, man. You know, it's not even going to be fun because he's so volunteer. He's like volunteering. He's like, okay, I'll just do it. No, no, you got to come out in a two-toe, though. Yeah, well, that is. That is true.

Because he is the youngest. That's mandatory. Youngest, yeah, so he has to. Has to. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine.

Do you know, man. Seriously, thank you. No, I appreciate you, man. Absolutely pleasure. For everybody who's listening and watching, thank you guys so much for listening. Share it out. Go check them out.

Really dive into this episode of what the messages actually mean, though. There's a special fighter inside every single one of us. But it's your job to call on that fighter. If you get knocked down, you can't retreat. You have to get back up and do the things that you know

you need to do to get better, no matter what the result on the scoreboard is. Because at the end of the day, if you don't do that, you're not moving forward in your life. you're just withering your way. Last time I checked, that's not growth. That's decay.

So thank you guys so much for watching and for listening. And until next time, stay determined.