DGTL Voices with Ed Marx - Amplifying Women's Voices: A Call to Action (ft. Megan Antonelli)

Episode Date: August 28, 2024

On this episode of DGTL Voices, Ed and Megan Antonelli, Founder and CEO, HealthIMPACT LIVE and the host of the Digital Health Talks podcast.   Tune in to hear a discussion on women's equality in healthcare and technology leadership, exploring the existence of the glass ceiling and the challenges women face in reaching leadership positions. The conversation highlights the importance of amplifying women's voices and creating opportunities for them to speak at conferences and events. Megan shares her experiences as a female leader and offers practical advice for both men and women to help break the glass ceiling. The discussion also touches on the significance of self-care and finding ways to recharge in a demanding work environment.   Key Takeaways The glass ceiling still exists in healthcare and technology leadership, with a lack of women in top positions. Men can help break the glass ceiling by listening to and amplifying women's voices, both at home and in the workplace. Women can support each other by elevating and amplifying each other's voices and creating opportunities for one another. Leaders need to be intentional in creating inclusive environments and providing equal opportunities for all. Self-care is important for staying fresh and recharging in a demanding work environment.

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation challenges and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marks. Hey, it's Ed here. Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. One of my favorite topics. I think I say that all the time, Megan, but it really is true because I'm all about the topic we're going to talk about today, and I still have a lot to learn.

So I have not arrived or anything like that. We want to talk, it was Women Equality Day. Today is, we're recording on August 26, 2024, and it happens to be Women's Equality Day, right? It's the anniversary of, right? Yep, the day women got the right to vote. So, 1005 years. Yeah, super important. And we still deal with the glass ceiling.

I know a lot of people might roll their eyes, but it's true. We still deal with it. I know it because I live with very strong women. and they remind me all the time. And I know people say, help me as well, sort of help others and be more aware. So this is what we want to talk about. We're not afraid of tough topics.

But anyways, Megan, I went way too far into it without saying hello. So Megan, welcome to Digital Voices. Hi, Ed. Good to see you. It's great to be here. It's great having you. Your founder and CEO, Health Impact. You have your own podcast.

You do a lot of conferences. That's where I first met. you over 10 years ago doing conferences. I got to be part of some of your conferences over the years. I love them. I love the style. I love the way that you do them. I love the vibe.

So I get to see firsthand your leadership and action. And it's really cool. But Megan, all that set aside, the most important question, everyone wants to know the answer to what songs are on your playlist? Wow. Well, great, great question. You know, I have a lot of music in my playlist. My music's a big part of my life.

My dad was a musician growing up in New York. York. So I listen to all types. I think, and I think a lot of the time, my playlist reflects the shows I've seen recently. So I saw Abby Posner, who's a bluegrass singer. She opened for the samples. So the samples have been on the rotation too a bit to date myself. And then I'm planning to go see Joni Mitchell at Joni Jam in October at the Hollywood Bowl. So she's coming up quite a bit too. So lots of strong female voices sort of. Yeah, I love it. And what kind of music did your dad play?

You know, all kinds. So he was sort of mostly influenced by like the Beatles and the British invasion, but he living in New York, he played folk, he played at Folk City and CBGBs and, you know, he did a lot of composing for off-Broadway shows.

So we got into avant-garde stuff that they don't really listen to, but I still enjoy hearing him play whatever he plays. So is that where you grew up like in the city city or in the outstirts of the city city city city city? City city in Manhattan on the every side. Yeah. Wow. And now you live in L.A. So what's that like? So you've had this experience of working or living both sides. Like what's your favorite? Well, I'm a New Yorker for sure. So I love New York. But I like the pace now that I'm older of living here. And I have always been perhaps regretfully so for my skin, a bit of a beach girl. So I do like Southern.

California. Yeah. They're both both have awesome things to offer. So I think a lot of people would be jealous the fact that you have had that experience at both sides. What about life message and mantra? Are there sort of words that you live by that sort of guide who you are? Well, you know, I think more than anything, time is precious. So fill it with purpose. I think growing up in New York, you know, I always felt that busy and, you know, working in events and sitting in conference rooms, you know, can sometimes feel not so, you know, it can feel like a waste of time sometimes. You know, sometimes commerce can be boring. So when I started my own event business, I called a purpose event because I wanted everything

I worked on to sort of have a purpose and satisfy people's purpose too. And when we launched the event, we called it health impact because I think purpose and impact kind of go hand in hand. So, you know, it's time is important and do, do what's. you know, kind of makes you feel good during the time. No, I love that. And I love the tie-in to the name of your organization. So we know a little bit about you already, Megan, you like a little bit, you like some bluegrass.

You're very eccentric. You like a lot of different types of music, some Joni Mitchell going on. And you grew up in the Upper East Side, Manhattan. So tell us a little bit more about your life. Your dad was a musician. And what else? What sort of helped shape who you are today? Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, growing up in New York shaped me. That's for sure. Just doing that in the 70s and 80s was significant. And I think my mom worked. My mom was a graphic designer. So she was artistic. They were both, you know, it was a music and an artist or a starving artist in New York. And as a result, I was into science and math and super analytical and super ambitious.

And, you know, I went living on the every side, but I went to an old girl school or a lot of people had a, you know, a lot of money. I didn't come from that same kind of money. So I think I grew up, you know, that sort of lit a spark of ambition, too. And so that, you know, that definitely shaped me. And New York in the 80s was was New York in the 80s. So there was a lot of ambitious and a lot of ambition and a lot of, you know, thinking that as a woman, we could kind of have it all and do it all. And that was certainly how I came into my working career. Yeah. Well, I think you still carry that with you very well. Was there like a decisive moment? What was the moment where you're in school or out of school and suddenly you're like,

I want to be in health care? Well, you know, I think I was always into math and science and my mom was always saying, oh, you should be a doctor, you should be a doctor. I'm not sure I ever really wanted to be a doctor, but it was drilled into my head. So I was premed in college. Healthcare was always my thing. And then I think as I was preparing for that, I was getting my master's in public health. I was working, doing research.

I was the research assistant for Parkinson's disease at Columbia. And I didn't really like working in a hospital. I was like, this is an unpleasant place. I don't, you know. And it made me want to work in healthcare, but to fix it, both for the patients and the people that were working there. And so around that time that I kind of realized it probably isn't for me in terms of committing this much time to being here.

I got a job in health care. events. I actually produced conferences in like Medicare and Medicaid policy that did a lot of time in Washington. And I just got the bug in terms of health care and policy and what could change it and fix it. Yeah. And then you've grown your business since then and always adding to that growth of your business. Now, I know because we're also connected on Facebook and we talk that you are also a mother, wife, and entrepreneur, a CEO. And I know no one has the answer to the quote unquote balanced life. But what are some of the things that you do to try to integrate your life? Goodness. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I've worked from home for a

long time, right? I think even when I was young, one of my first jobs, I got to work from home. And so having that, keeping that balance and maintaining that balance has been something I've been able to do. but I'm also, you know, I like working. I like that, you know, sort of connection. So that's been, you know, I think for the most part, not as hard as it could have been. I think when I had my first son, that idea of having it all, right, was very attractive, but realizing that there, you know, that that balance was difficult and that having it all wasn't exactly everything it was cracked up to be.

So I kind of took a stance of sustainability to think, you know, the balance. is much more about choosing what makes, you know, what feeds into the other one. And I think around that kind of purpose driven, owning my own business, being able to control my schedule and those types of things, that that's kind of been able to feed that balance. And then that, you know, sort of, yeah, the purpose and the satisfaction of that. Yeah. Now, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, so let's talk a little bit more then about health impact.

Tell us a little bit of someone's listening and they don't know about it. Tell us about health impact and how it's evolved over time. Yeah. So health impact is a community platform. We hold two major conferences a year. In the beginning, we held them as regional forums. It was really born of meaningful use, implementation of EHRs and helping health systems around the country do that better,

for better or for worse. And now, selfishly, and a little bit because New York has always just been this great health care hub. We do most of our events in New York. We had one last year in Houston. And we kind of go where the market takes us in terms of that. And then since the pandemic, which, you know, we obviously couldn't do in-person events. We did a lot of virtual, a lot of digital.

We've launched Health Impact Live, which is a virtual summit. We hold every Thursday. I'm sorry, every third Thursday. And then the podcast, as you mentioned, digital health talks. And that's been a great way to just stay in touch with people and get to know people. And I love it because talking to people and connecting people is what I like to do. So yeah, that's been super fun and that's where we kind of are right now. So I know it's going to be hard to answer this question because I know to limit you to one or two cool experiences.

But certainly over all those conferences or maybe some of the podcasts, there's been one or two like super cool things that just jump out at you that you remember. Can you share one or two of those? Well, I mean, I have to say one of my favorite sessions was the session that you and Chris and John Hollong did. It was before the pandemic, but we were amplifying your story as a patient, Chris's story, John's knowing his, you know, his wife's story. And we actually were able to do that virtually. We were in the Google offices. They were at Hymns Europe. I'm sure you remember. But that was, that was a cool, just sort of intersection of both great minds, great stories, and technology. And doing that probably enabled us to pivot as quickly, because that was 20,

19 June, I think. So pivot as quickly as we did to virtual, having seen how that could work. But in general, I think, you know, my favorite part of this is that people come to me and say, oh, I got my job because I met this person here or I met my husband there or I met, you know, my life changed because of, you know, attending one of your events. And so that's really always, you know, that's the best part. Yeah. Yeah. I remember it at vividly. I was there in person while the other two were, yeah, they were gallimanting somewhere around the world at another conference. And I had just found out I had a cancer diagnosis. And Chris was dealing with his cancer diagnosis. And then eventually the two of us would come together and write a book

based on some of that experiences. So yeah, I remember that super well. Yeah. And I love the conferences. I've been to several and I highly recommend him. So let's get into the women and health care tech leadership and kind of a softball question just to get going. Is there still a glass ceiling? And have you been personally impacted? Well, you know, I mean, it's crazy to think. It's, you know, 100 some years, 105 years since women were given the right to vote. And is there a glass ceiling? I think, yeah, I think there is. You know, I think when I look at Fortune 500, you know, boardrooms, you know, there's not, you know, you're not seeing that many women, right? And it's the same in hospitals.

So even though a really large percentage of the workforce for hospitals for health care or women, there's not as many hospital CEOs. I mean, I think the number hovers around 30%. And I think that number even reflects it's 30% of smaller hospitals. When you look at the larger hospitals, it's even fewer. And, I mean, that's a little bit better than Fortune 500 companies, which hover is around 10%. So, you know, at the same time, the number of women. are graduating from medical school is, you know, increasing and almost equal, if not equal,

I think, in the last few years. And the number of, you know, I guess it's not all CEOs, not all CEOs or MDs, right? So if you're looking at that, you know, but there's 42% parity around MBAs and that sort of thing. And then for nurses, you know, 70% of the nursing degrees go to women and it's been that way since 2009. So to continue to see a lack of parity when at the at the senior level at the C-suite when you have them graduating from schools you know to me means it's there yeah yeah it's pretty vivid and we were talking about this offline where you know if you think about we're just going to use podcasts as an example when you think about in healthcare when you look at who were the at least the early adopters

early launters of podcast and social quote unquote social media you know it was it was pretty male dominant and I think it still is that way although many such as yourself have now come in but like when when I think you're the one

that gave me the statistic when you look at the top 10 podcasts or top 15 podcasts overall in every genre only one of them is a woman and the topic is on sex so it's like we still have a long way to go all of society but for sure health care, right?

Yeah, which is interesting. I mean, when you think about podcasts, I mean, and it goes to speaking on conferences too, but there's a lot about, you know, just women's voices and why, you know, why don't we like listening to women's voices because our mom's just to nag us? Like, what is the, I mean,

think about our favorite narrators. I mean, I think of David Attenborough and Morgan Freeman and James Earl Jones. I don't think of a woman, unfortunately. So there's definitely, there's history to it. There's history to male voices being seen as the authoritative experts, right? And I'm sure there's science behind it as well, although I don't know it probably as well as I should. There's a certain degree to that, but can I think of the the male podcast that are most popular? And I wonder how anyone can listen to them. So there's that.

That's just my opinion. So I hear you. So what we're going to, we're going to, we're going to, push a little deeper here. So, and just being super transparent, although I'm sure there's some negative feedback, but I'm just telling you my experience. So I have done some conferences and worked on some conferences. And what I've found historically, and I think it's slowly changing, and maybe we'll talk about some of those reasons, but I would throw a wide net out there and I'd be like, let's

just say I'm working on a panel. I'm like, I need four people for a panel. And I would purposefully try to go 50-50. Like, I'm going to invite said number of women and said number of men. And I had, and this is not just a one-off, but it happened a few times where it was primarily men that responded, yes, and the women not so much. And so it was a little frustrating for me because I wanted that parity. I wanted that equity, that equality. It was hard.

And I talked to someone else who does a lot of events, and they were talking about the same struggle. Have you seen that? And what is it changing? and what can we do? I really want to get practical, too. Yeah, what do we do? Yeah, I mean, man-olds, womanals, I mean, that's my favorite, my favorite topic. But, you know, and it's funny, the first time I think that I got called out for a man-old,

it was one of our health impacts in Houston. And it was, you know, a picture got put on Twitter. And it got picked up, you know, outside of the healthcare IT circle. It was blasted for it. But I've always been conscious of it. I mean, I started producing conferences in 1999. And back then, you know, I cared about it. I went to an all-bural high school.

I went to Kvasser. I went, you know, I was very, very aware of trying to make sure that there were women on every panel and that my faculty was, you know, sort of had parity to it. But it was really hard, you know. And women are not an easy yes when it comes to speaking, you know, and men are. Men often say yes, much with greater ease to topics they know much less about. I mean, women want to be prepared and they want to know that it's going to benefit them, you know, in very quantifiable ways, whereas men really, you know, I think men enjoy it. And so there's a lot of reasons to that. I mean, I think you can go back to, you know, I think in like 1999, a book came out. I forget the author. But it was around how the burden of, you know, household burden, child care, laundry, all that fell more heavily. young women, which of course, you know, it was no, you know, that was no shock to anyone. But I think as we look at

how women can, you know, spend more time, do more things with, for work, they're going to choose the things that are 100% their jobs. And speaking at conferences aren't always that, you know, those are a lot more about maybe furthering your career or maybe, you know, getting out learning, competitive intelligence, those types of things, as opposed to a direct, checking the box on this is what you know i need to do to get my job done yeah and you know maybe there's a i don't know a male bravado male ego also that wants to be heard so yeah i'd probably have fallen into that or fall into that bucket and so they're like oh i'll speak like you said sometimes may not be even a topic that the person is familiar with but they're more

apt to raise their hand, you know, because they want that attention or what have you. So, yeah, those are. I don't think, I mean, women ultimately don't enjoy speaking at conferences as much as men do for whatever reason, whether that's the travel at the time or just that, you know, that element of getting on a stage and not being your happy place, you know, for a lot of men, it is their happy place, which is great. But it does, I think, you know, a lot of important business things do happen at conferences. So that, you know, not being able to take the time for whatever reason definitely could have something to do with what we talked about before in terms of the C-suite

and who's there. Do you think it's changing over time now with subsequent successive generations where we're sort of, because I think there's, God, I hope it's true, there's more awareness and we're doing more to create environments to give everyone that people, opportunity. Do you think that with the younger generations coming up through the ranks that it's going to, it's a different, it's more inclusive? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think two things. One is you are seeing that the parody of graduates of, you know, sort of MBA students and, you know, physicians come up. So as that comes up, you have that. But in addition, I think that, you know, with Instagram and Snapchat and TikTok and everything else, people are more.

forward, if you will, in this generation. So their comfort level to speaking, and I see it in younger women coming to the stage now, that they are both, you know, more willing and also more polished, frankly, than, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it's super interesting. What are one or two things? Because, again, just I keep wanting to be practical for everyone. what are one or two things that men or women, we can be specific to either or just general,

can do to help sort of break this glassy league? Let me ask it this way, Megan, speaking to a man in the audience, what would you say first to men? Like, what can we do to, you know, bring about more inclusivity? You know, one, I think, you know, it's listening to your mothers, your wives and your daughters. Make it, you know, make it your purpose to listen to them and then. to elevate and amplify those voices, right? I mean, I think that comfort level of listening to them is then what will allow and empower men to then amplify them.

You know, help with the laundry too, maybe. Yeah. Wait, really? No, it's just kidding. No, I don't. Help amplify your voices in your home at school, in the community and at work. I mean, I think that's one of my favorite. parts about digital health talks is that it is an easy way for me to talk to female founders,

talk to female CIOs. They say yes more than they say yes to travel. You know, when I say come to New York, the podcast is easy. And my hope and my goal is that by doing that, then they'll come because then they get to know me and they have fun and then the travel's worth it, right? But, you know, bringing them on the show and getting them out there and having them here, having people hear the great things they have to say. Yeah. One of the things that I would do routinely when I was a CIO and I would have, you know, men and women, obviously, in leadership, and I would bring in

speakers, other female CIOs from around the country that people knew of and had respect for and come in and talk. And we tackle some of these topics as well. Interestingly, and again, we're not shy of controversy here. Interestingly, what's surprising, me and it was two CIA leaders specifically that mentioned this and they so when I asked them the question what can us men in this room do for our sisters how do we help again I love your phraseology elevate it amplify all the voices give everyone opportunity they said it wasn't so much the men but it was the other women so she challenged both of them challenged the women in the room to really help one another. Have you something similar in your experience? Yeah, I think so. I mean, and I think that

that's, you know, this goes back to something, you know, around the mantra, I always, you know, I always have this thing that says, you know, there's room on the shelf for Coke and Pepsi and Diet Coke and Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi and vitamin water and everything. It's like this belief of scarcity. Like, if I get in, you know, if I get in someone else's way, there's no room for me, you know. And the fact is, is that there's enough room at the table for everyone and treating each other like that and amplifying people through that, you know, that it's not a competition ultimately. But I think that certainly among women, sometimes it is. And that that, you know, certainly something you see for sure.

So it's there. But again, it is a little bit of, you know, how do we all raise that tide. Yeah. Yeah. And I, that challenge that I put out to any leader, but, you know, we're focusing a little bit right now on male leaders is, no matter what your role is or your direct manager, director,

if you have people leading to you, you need to help foster this environment that, that you help raise everyone up and give people an opportunity that didn't have the same opportunity that you may have had being a male, because now we're going back years, right? We're going back generations.

So we need to be very proactive and direct. So I was always sure that, like, we always had mentoring programs I have or leadership, and we'd always go really deep and help people, and old people, to get past that past that may have existed so that they would all have this opportunity to elevate. I'm kind of generic there, but I think you know what I'm saying. Like, you know, we would be very intentional.

That's what I'm trying to say. Don't just put out a program and it magically happens. No, you have to be very intentional and get very involved to make this happen because it's a big generational shift that we're helping to influence. It is. And I think that public speaking in and of itself is one of those things that, you know, you sort of take for granted, you know, that anyone who sort of has become successful or, you know, can maybe even manage a room of 30 to 40, that that skill transfers to 300 to

3,000. Yeah. And that's not true. You know, it doesn't. You know, anxiety is real. and how people, you know, how people, you know, manage that and helping people to manage that and having programs in place. And to some degree, it's, you know, it's a mental health thing as much as it's, you know, a confidence thing. And so where the workplace lies and sort of, you know, not wanting to blur those lines, it's still, you know, that's how you can create programs to then lift people up who, you know, might have those insecurities and not want to get on the stage, but need to because their voices do need to be heard.

Yeah, I think the bottom line from this discussion, Megan, is that we have to be very, as leaders, we have to be very intentional. And we have, we are responsible to make this happen. We can't kick back and, you know, blame someone else or it's not an HR issue. And I see, I don't see this at HR. It's a leadership issue. And so you as a leader need to go and be proactive. Wow, we could talk about that quite a bit, but, but we definitely dropped a few different techniques that people can adopt in order to, elevate and amplify. I want to just sort of close out with asking you about how do you recharge

yourself, recharge your batteries and remain fresh. Because again, you have all these roles going on in life. You're this great leader. And I think someone that many people and women aspire to be like. So, but how do you like stay fresh? Well, I don't know about that. But thanks. I mean, I like working a lot. I'm probably, I don't like sitting, you know, in the, quiet of my own voice. I don't like my own voice. I don't want to sit in the quiet of it. And I recharge by being around people. So that's probably a good, you know, a lucky thing around my work part. And checking things off my list is probably what relaxes me the most. So sometimes I have to put sit in the hot tub on the list, you know, and that way when I'm in the hot tub,

checking that off the list and writing another list, I'm relaxing. But that's, you know, that's kind of it. I mean, I love sitting on the beach, sitting in the hot tub, you know, anywhere. I, you know, running in the sunshine is basically that's it, you know. I love it. But I think the important thing that you are recognizing you have to be proactive and make it happen, even if that requires putting it on your calendar. Wow. We covered a lot growing up in New York City, Upper East Side, Bluegrass and Joni Mitchell at the Hollywood Bowl. That's cool. That should be playing there. And it's just the way that You grew up in the influences and then all about health impact and what a value add that is

for health care and technology and leadership. We spoke mostly about women in health care and probably dropped three to five different techniques that people could use to elevate and amplify. And bottom line is it's our responsibility, everyone that's listening. It's our responsibility to help continue to break that glass ceiling. And then the importance is just refreshing yourself and, you know, staying vibrant. So, Megan, we covered a lot of ground. did we miss something or anything you want to double down on, I give you the last word.

Hmm. Well, I don't know. I mean, timing wise, you know, I'm coming off of last week, and I know politics is not, you know, a safe space always. But I think there were some amazing speeches last week at the DNC convention. So from Convalent to Michelle, Gretchen Whitmer, Gabby Giffords, you know, they were so inspiring. So as you think about getting comfortable with women's voices, those are some really inspiring speeches to listen to. If you listen to them and you don't like what you're hearing, then it's important to kind of ask yourself why. Because that's where we're at.

There's some amazing women out there and you're just going to listen to what they have to say. Yeah. No, love it. Completely agree. I've got to listen to all the voices. And this has been tremendous. I learned a lot. I think it helped me quite a bit.

Megan, I appreciate you being part of Digital Voices. Thanks so much. Ed, it's always a pleasure. Can't wait to have you back on Digital Health Talks and to see you soon. Yeah. So that wraps up. Digital Voices. I know you have a lot of different options to listen to.

And we're thankful that you're with us. Thank you for listening to Digital Voices Podcast with Ed Mart. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.