DGTL Voices with Ed Marx - Building Your Personal Brand: Standing Out in a Crowded Marketplace (ft. Nick Giannas)

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

In this episode of DGTL Voices, Ed sits down with Nick Giannas, senior partner at WittKieffer, for a deep dive into what it takes to stand out and succeed in the ever-evolving tech industry. If you're a senior tech executive looking to level up, this conversation is a must-listen. Nick shares insider tips on career planning, personal branding, and how to navigate the shifting roles of CIOs, CTOs, and CDIOs. Discover why building relationships with executive search consultants is crucial for long-term growth and how being visible both internally and externally can open doors you didn't even know existed. Plus, Nick reveals why valuing your team's hard work and staying committed to lifelong learning are non-negotiables for anyone serious about making their mark in tech. Don’t miss out on this episode packed with actionable insights that could transform your career.

Thanks for tuning to Digital Voices podcast, where we chat digital transformation, challenges and opportunities across healthcare and life sciences. And now, your host, Ed Marks. Hey, everyone, it's Ed. Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. Thanks for being with us. We know you have a lot of great choices out there of things to listen to as I do, and you've chosen us. And I appreciate that. And you'll be happy you did because our guest is just amazing. Nick Giannis. Nick, welcome to Digital Voices. Well, thank you so much.

And how are you doing? Now, I'm so excited about this conversation, Nick, because this is so critical to a majority of our listeners who are in the profession, and they're always wondering about their career and should it be planned out, should it not be planned out,

do they work with the recruitment organization, you know, how does all that stuff work? And a lot of people don't know and they have a lot of questions, but they're afraid to ask. So you're the perfect person to see your partner from Whit Kiefer to join us. So I've had tremendous respect for Whit Kiefer, and I've had a lot of success working with Whit Kiefer on both the buyer and receiver side.

So I really appreciate all that you do. Well, thank you so much. It's really nice to meet with you today, and I want to thank you so much for having me on the show. Yeah, Nick, you and I, we go back quite some time, as I mentioned, you know, with Whitkeever. And so I've known about you and you put out great content as well as Whitkeeper does. And you're so helpful to many of my friends. And so again, so glad to have you on. But the most important question, Nick, isn't about careers or anything like that.

It's about the songs on your playlist. What kind of music do you like to listen to? Yeah. I love music. And all types of music across all genres. It's the mood that you're in. The feeling that you have are two kids and that pump you. up music sometimes before a game.

But I guess if I were to take one genre over another, it's primarily rock. So I like to listen to everything from alternative rock to pop rock. So, jury, YouTube, Maroon 5, Coldplay, probably one of my favorites.

So I was actually listening to a couple of their songs yesterday. I love the the instruments, the beat, but also the meaningful messages. Yeah, I love Coldplay. That's one band I've not seen in concert. It's still on my list. Yeah, and like you said, not only great musicianship,

but the lyrics have deep meaning. Actually, Prince sometimes one of the songs in particular and trying to figure out the deeper meaning. You know, it's pretty interesting. It's good music. What about your life mantra or message to live by? Is there something that guides Nick? Yeah.

Yeah, it goes back to the golden rule, right? You know, treat others like you ought to be treated. And I don't many probably would say that. But I, you know, my parents instilled a lot of those moral values when I was younger, right? Honesty, respect, hard work. My parents, and are immigrants, they work really hard in their life. And, you know, all those things of care, compassion, be respectful to others. I think they're all true.

It's easy to be, you know, difficult. But you have to be true to yourself. You have to be true to others. And I think I lived by those values that my parents saw me when I was younger. I would say other things, like little, you know, messages like nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? You gotta be willing to take a chance. Go out of your comfort sometimes.

Some other, like, little messages, like, don't spot the small stuff, you know? I think each league we're dealing with challenges, and some of them are small, we get stuck on them, and you need to be able to process them and pivot. Otherwise, you really just get stuck, and you can't move forward.

So, I would think, those few messages that really stand up. Yeah, that's good stuff. It reminds us we do have a playlist of all the everyone's favorite music on Spotify. We have a digital voices playlist, but we're also creating sort of a playlist of everyone's mantras. And so it'll be a great collection where you can go to look for inspiration from leaders like yourself. So Nick, you dropped something new on me that I didn't know about,

but it feeds right into my next question. That is tell us a little bit about something about yourself personally and professionally. But so you dropped on me that your parents were immigrants. So I would love to hear that story and where they came from. Yeah, yeah. So my parents both came from Greece. And so with very little, they were fortunate enough. They had some relatives in the United States that, you know, family helps family, right?

And so, you know, but they met and my dad worked really hard in his life to give us a better life, right? So you work with night shifts, and I remember when I get older, I would see him go to work and then come in early in the morning. And it just goes back to, you know, wanting to work hard because you saw what your parents did for you, right? And it gave you the opportunity to have a better life, really. So I grew up in the suburb in a suburb of Chicago. It was a product of the public school system from kindergarten through high school. and an interesting thing is that in eighth grade, and I have to say this,

that I didn't appreciate this as much back then of what a honorary was. I more so appreciated it that I wanted to get a job and I wanted to not ask my parents for money, so I should go to what I'm talking to. But in eighth grade, one of my teachers came up to me and said, you know, I have a job for you. And I was like, job, no, this is great, you know?

And it was for a law firm. And so I appreciated I was getting a job so that I didn't have to ask my parents for money, but I didn't have really appreciate the honor because he could have asked another, one of my classmates, right? So it was great. So I had to get a workers permit, you know, and it was just a great opportunity to work at a professional firm. And so I worked all through high school and college at the law firm. I had other jobs as well to help me pay through my undergrad.

And so, again, those values of my parents still didn't end up in me working hard, right, shows there. And so, you know, when I graduated, I had a lot of ideas. Oh, I played hockey, too, by the way. So, you know, I love sports. And so, you know, I thought I was going to be, you know, I wanted to be a hockey player. I wanted to be a sports agent. I wanted to be a lawyer. And, you know, while I was in college, I did take some marketing research courses.

and I got interested in research. And so, you know, when I realized I wasn't making the NHL, right? And I didn't want to go to law school, much to the chagrin of the law firm, who wanted me to go to law school. I found it, it wasn't a good, the year I graduated, it wasn't a really good year for, and it just wasn't a really good job market. And so I applied for a job at Wikiefer as a research analyst. Wow.

And the rest is history, right? and with fever over 20 years. And, you know, moved up to the ranks from, you know, a research analyst to an associate, senior associate consultant, principal, and now to make a role of senior partner. So that's kind of the story. Wow. See, I didn't know any of that. That's pretty interesting. What about hockey?

Do you still play today, like recreational leagues or anything? I would love to. I would love to. I, you know, I get out of the ice sometimes with my little guy. He's a goalie, and he's going to be starting trail hockey. Actually, this week is going to start a good trial. So sometimes I get on the ice, and I'll tell you, it's, I'm not as, as good as I used to be in the best condition to be on the ice. But I would love to get on the ice and get on a team, you know, in a men's league or something like that or an adult league. but I just haven't had the time. And now with the kids, where, you know, one plays baseball, one plays hockey, work.

You know, you're trying to, you know, vacation to Disney. You know, trying to make this work. Yeah, that's cool. So, Whit Kiefer. So tell us a little bit about the founding story of Whit Kiefer and sort of the mission and vision. Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that. So Whit Kiefer, I think, turns 55 this year. So the firm's been around since 1969 and has experienced really a lot of growth, transformation, and success.

And I've been very fortunate to be a part of that, as I told you, you know, they gave me the opportunity. And not only they opened the door for me after I graduated from college, but I've been able to be promoted several times. So I've been a part of that growth, and that's really special. So traditionally, we were, you know, an executive search firm. right to today we're a global multi-solution professional services firm so that's everything from executive search mid-level search so mid-level executives to interim a leadership and on-demand solutions and also leadership advisory and so you'll ask what was the leadership of Miders are we have a practice that focuses in on things like, you know,

executive coaching and development, assessment and succession, teen development, cultural development, et cetera. So with all that evolution and growth, what is not changed and what has been consistent throughout our, you know, throughout the time I've been there and I'm sure you before is our longstanding commitment to improving the quality of life. And our purpose is to improve the quality of life through impact. leadership. We focus in on what we call the quality of

life ecosystem, so those sectors of academic medicine, education, health care, and it's really really rewarding to be in those sectors, obviously. You know, the APEC they make in our country and the world.

But it's been a great ride. And, you know, when I started, just to put in perspective, I want to say there was maybe 100 team members, and now we're up to about 340. Wow. About 340, 350.

Oh, it's great. And we have a great team of individuals. We really value the diverse backgrounds and experiences, and we really work, we thrive together in a team-oriented fashion. Yeah, that's cool. And I love the, it makes total sense, the full service. Like, yeah, you start off just doing like executive search, but obviously it's in everyone's best interest to make sure that those executives,

that are there are successful. So you get the coaching, but also sort of that whole career life cycle, if you will. So makes total amount of sense. Now, maybe you ready to drop something on me that I don't know about Whitkeeper. Is there anything else that you wanted to share about with Kiefer that people might not know? Yeah. I guess one thing that stands out, we're a private employee-owned firm, right? So about 35 partners who have a vested interest in the success of the company, and I was fortunate to be named a partner recently. And we're proud of being an employee-owned company. And I think if you have the opportunity to shareholder of the company that you're dedicated to, I think that's pretty awesome, right? Yeah. I mean, so I think that's it.

I think a couple other things that I would mention that maybe others know, but, you know, we're a high touch firm working with our, working with the institutions that we partner with our clients, as well as candidates, right? You mentioned the experiences that you have. So we have a relentless pursuit for quality and customer service and continual improvement. And I think that, you know, that, you know, one thing that, you know, maybe how we differentiate in a way

is that, well, one way that really stands out for me is that, you know, we know in each industry that we serve, organizations have a lot of the same challenges and opportunities. We really understand. We look at it that every organization is unique. So we seek to understand, listen and learn, while at the same time provide sound counsel and advice.

Yeah. So along with the services that obviously we provide, how wonder it's executive search or a leadership advisory and stuff for. Yeah. No, I love it. Yeah. Let's jump right into sort of career things. Tell us your thoughts about the difference, you know, or should there be not concerned,

but what should CIOs, traditional CIOs know, or CDOs know, about the differences and the nuances. CDO versus CIO versus CDIO, you know, how do you look at all that titling? Well, Ed, I want to say this, is that I just really excited. You and I have been doing this a long time, right, where we know where, that I'll just use, just because there's different titling, CIOC, the senior leader over technology, we remember the days when the conversation was about, should they be at that level,

should they be part of the senior leadership team? And now we're past that, right? Yeah. And really what you're talking about is having a conversation around the expansion of the role and how it's really a transformative role, right? It's a transformational position. So, and I will say that you had and your peers in the healthcare technology space really take the way to get to this point.

Yeah. Because that position is truly involved. So going back to the time, we all agree the CIO is typically responsible for the traditional areas, IT infrastructure, applications, ZMR, IT operations, the digital officer role. especially in health systems, large health systems, about seven years ago, we started to see large health systems say, well, we want a separate leader, right? We want a leader that is going to be the CDO and be responsible for innovation and transformation through the utilization of digital technology, right, to improve, you know, the patient experience, right? Now we're thinking about more from patient provider and overall user experience employees as well. And so,

And you fast forward to now, it's really moving towards the trend, is moving towards, you know, having one leader over all those areas, the traditional IP area as well as digital. And some of them might ask you and say, well, how does that go? Because the CIO role, you know that is still widely used, right? I think where it's more used in organizations where they're still trying to deal with, you know, large-scale technical debt or trying to build out their foundation around infrastructure and applications, where the CDIO role is more so in organizations, you'll see it more so that, you know, they're on their journey of digital or they just started and they're talking about things like the digital front door and online scheduling and wayfinding. And now you're seeing, you know, those that are further along are talking about some really, really exciting things, right? Not to say wage, why it isn't exciting when it first came out. But now you're seeing, you know, ambient technology, right? You're talking about AI.

Yes. And it's really, it's really an exciting time. Yeah. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. And so, Nick, that's my next question is, how thoughtful should senior tech, executives be about their career? Because it seemed to me like sometimes it's sort of happenstance, but is there some wisdom into planning your career long term? The several answer is yes. And I think you should spend a significant amount of time of planning, right, and being thoughtful

about it. So think about it. In your roles at your several CXO roles in your career, right? Each week, a weekend and week out, right, you were tight. You are when your strategic playing skills and vision, right? Why not put those skills to use when it comes to your career and develop a career plan? And it doesn't have to be anything complex. I'm not asking you to develop an organizational IT strategic plan here, right? But a simple plan that, you know, you have milestones, you have, you have, you know, motivators, factors. and an end goal, right?

And I think that type of career planning helps mitigate things like you maybe applied for several different positions that are maybe not the right ones or maybe helps you mitigate from accepting a role that's not the right one. How many people have you hired in your career ad, or seen resumes where you've seen people kind of move around a little bit? But frankly, career plan would have helped them, right? to not jump from one position to the next and so forth. And so I would also say is that this career player doesn't have to be set in stone, right?

It can evolve as you evolve, right? But it will be beneficial so you're not starting from scratch. Yeah. Now, a couple other things I think are important too is I think that we get focused. I mean, when you're a CXO, you've done successful in your career, right? And you get so focused on the professional side. And you forget to realize that's only one aspect of your left. Yeah.

There's the personal life. Right? So think about it, those personal factors, aging parents, kids, your spouse's career, all those financial aspects, right? you're going to be investing in a long-term incentive last year that's several dollars on the table, right? You have to think about those things early on. You don't want to be, you didn't have, but at least think about them because you don't want

to go downstream in a search process and get to the end and realize I got to now think about these things. And in that short period of time, it's hard to make really good decisions. Right. So, I don't have actually a question about being thoughtful about your pre-plan. I think it's very important.

We can even touch on work-life balance, right? That being important as well. So I guess the net net there is that, you've been successful in your career because you've pre-planned or successful in your jobs because of planning and so forth. Why not doing the same when you're thinking about your career overall? Yeah. No, it makes total sense to me and the way you explained it is super, super helpful.

What about here's a sort of semi-controversial topic for some of my peers, and that's branding. So when you think about yourself, should leaders have a brand and be purposeful on that brand, or just let things happen the way they happen? I would go with the former. I think you should be considerable brand. And I think. And I don't know if this is, well, I think this makes that. I was asking when I saw it a couple weeks ago about, you know, when you hear the word brand, what do you think of?

And what you could guess, leave it, but Nike or someone in the company, right? So I think we're hardwired at an early age to think of branding as a company or a product as opposed to an individual. Yeah. Right? And so I think you need to understand and recognize that you have a brand to start, right? You have a personal brand. And it's something that you build older tech. You advocate for it.

You create brand awareness. I think you got to think about a couple of questions that you should probably be thinking about are. When you think about branding, you think about, you know, how do you want others to think of you? Right. And how do they actually think of you? Right. In the market. That could be two different things.

So, you know, I, and I, you know, your brand should be defined by your values and what you believe in, right? If you're not passionate about something and you're not authentic about it, it's not, it's not going to work out well. But, you know, think about things that you're passionate about that make up your brand. I mean, developing and mentoring people, for example, right? That will come to mind. your reputation can be supported around that by your thoughts and actions.

So you can clearly communicate your support for professional development, but your actions can also, you know, you can support it, right? So how many times when you talk to leaders like yourself, and you'll say, what are you most proud of? And they'll say, I'm most proud of those that reported to me are, you know, when I was a CIO or a CIO, they moved up. into the CIA or COO role, right? So you see that you can have a brand of being someone that does support that.

Right. And your actions and words can speak to it. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I'm in complete agreement. What about under or overexposure in the industries? You know, you do something good. You develop a brand and suddenly everyone wants you to speak.

Everyone wants you to write, all that kind of stuff. Is there a balance in it under or being over-expoise? Yeah, I wish I can develop a formula. Maybe that's what we should do at, an AI tool that can shoot that perfect balance, right? I guess on the overexposure side, what I would say is, is that if you consistently provide value for other people, you won't whisp over exposure, right? You know, one way we, you know, have exposure to social media, right? It's a really good platform if you use it well, right? And so if you post things, you know, that are meaningful, lessons learn,

how to, this is how we solve this problem, this is the path we took, you know, those things, you know, promotions, promoting your team, those things resonate with people, right? think where you maybe have over exposure is in the sense of if you're, there's too much self-promoting or there's, you're really focused on divisive topics, right? You know, you want to stick to things that are unifying ideas and messages, and people know when you're genuine. And on social media, by the way, if you're, if you're,

you can be easily skipped. It's a feed, right? So if you're overexposing in those, you know, I don't know. So I do think there is a balance. I think it's finding your right balance. All right. What about differentiation in the marketplace? So a lot of stuff we just talked about will really help you, right? Having a plan being very intentional and focused, having a right balance of exposure. But how do you differentiate yourself in a crowded marketplace? So let's just say there is, you know, I don't know the number, but for the same example, there's a thousand CIOs and there, you know, everyone aspires to be in that top 10 organizations. to be the CIO. What can you do to sort of differentiate yourself as a candidate? Yeah.

What I would say is that there are a couple things that are no-roaraders, but recently things just don't think about them, is being visible. I often hear from, you know, the hiring executive or chief stakeholders that I'm talking with about a search, but we meet with them. When we start a search, I should say, and they'll say, we want a visible leader, enterprise line, right? Someone who can build strong relationships, someone that can partner with others.

But we also like them to be externally present as well or focused to a degree. Right? And because we want that individual to bring in those new innovative ideas that maybe we're not thinking of, that knowledge,

Right. And now it's an exciting time, right? As a CIO or CDIO or whatever the title might be, you know, there's technology partnerships. There's entrepreneurial co-development. There's so much exciting things. So I think being visible, both internally and externally, can really differentiate you. Right. And, you know, there's some people that have been very successful who have been internally focused. And you may never see a conference or presenting. And it works out, right? But I think what can differentiate you is that is being both. I think also is there is a saying or belief that says that I have an idea of this. The best way to improve your life is to improve the lives of others. Right? And so I think that can be, you know, switch the lifeguard and put the best way to approve your career is by improving the careers of others, right?

Yeah, I love it. And I believe it holds true from a career perspective. Yeah. I think in my list, how many times you've heard in your career, you're only as strong as your team, or, you know, my team's success

leads to my success, right? Yeah. So I think if you put others first and not always yourself, that can really differentiate you. And that goes back to, you know, serving as a mentor, developing and helping people.

I think you can really differentiate yourself that way. This is such good stuff. My mind's about to explode. I'm trying to think of the summary here, Dick. But one last question before we get there, and that is, how can someone best work with a firm like Whit Kiefer? So what's one thing that senior execs should be doing proactively? Establish relationships with, it almost...

I have to say that is that life is all about relationships. I think of those five words. life is about, about relationships, all about relationships. And both on the personal side and on the professional side. And so what I would say is a sandwich relationship with an executive search consultant or a recruiter. Some of you detrust, take a client in advice. Don't treat it as a transaction. What do I mean by that?

I only reach out to a recruiter when I'm looking for a job or a search consultant when I'm looking for a job or I'm waiting for them to reach out to me when they have a job or two-deen. Treat it as a meaningful, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship. Yeah. And, you know, you have a relationship with us. You don't talk to us every day or every week and so forth, but you have a relationship, right? Yes.

Or there's an exchange of thoughts, ideas. It doesn't always have to be about a transaction or a job, right? Yeah. I meet up at conferences, stayed connected. You know, I have relationships with leaders for two decades.

And it's like a friend that you grew up with, right? Where you separate. You were with each other all your life early on and then you don't maybe see each other as much. But when you do,

you start back up where you left. So I have relationship to those leaders just like that where, you know, we're not talking every month or every, but, you know, we start off where we last left and, you know, we talk about family. You talked about what's going out. What are the trends out there? It's not always just about a job. Yeah.

Now, Nick, it has been great. Learning about you and your parents being immigrants and that work ethic that they gave you, you're early in your career, just how you got this opportunity with Kiefer and made the most of us. You're practicing what you're preaching. And then the whole vision around, you know, being global company now and the whole vision around improving quality of life. So then we talked about careers and you should have a plan. So I'm just kind of giving the exact summary.

Yes, definitely have a plan, but a flexible plan. Definitely think about your brand and how you improve that brand and share that brand. Be authentic. You said that a couple of times. I think that's so key, you know, follow your passions and focus on other people. So improve lives of others, improve careers of others, be visible, be a collaborator. Those were some of the Uber themes that just came out. And establish a relationship now with search consult and because life is all about relationship.

Fighty words. So much good stuff, Nick, I could have gone on and on just on the executive summary. But for the sake of time, what did we miss for what would you like to double down on? I'll give you the last word today. Thank you for that. And thank you for this opportunity. going to be a little down there, you know. It has, being a lifelong learner.

Yeah. The healthcare technology space is ever, is changing in many ways dramatically, and I'm one that, you have to be transformational, you have to adapt and be agile, otherwise you'll be left behind. Yeah. Is it ever-changing. and I think valuing the hard work of others,

empowered your teams, all those things, motivating your staff. I think all of that plays into it. And so I guess that's what I would be with. No, that's sage advice. Nick, thank you again for being part of digital voices. And that wraps up another episode. Thanks for listening.

Thank you for listening to digital. Voices podcast with Edmarts. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your preferred streaming service and leave a rating and review. And most importantly, thanks again for listening.