Dissect - Andre 3000: The Love Below + Features | LAST SONG STANDING (E4)

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

The LSS Boyz continue their journey to crown OutKast's best song ever with a special episode dedicated to Andre 3000. First, Cole and Charles revisit Andre's 2003 "solo" album The Love Below, then cover Andre's incredible catalog of feature verses. Hosts: Cole Cuchna, Charles Holmes Producer, Guest: Justin Sayles Audio Production: Kevin Pooler Theme Music: Birocratic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, Cole here. Quickly before we get into today's Andre 3000 episode, I want to let you know we're getting an early start on the voting for this season's audience pick. So if you've been listening to The Last Song Standing this season, you know that Charles and I have been selecting one song from every Outcast album to bring into the season finale Royal Rumble. These are the songs that are in contention to be selected as Outcast Best. And the audience pick is one song that we didn't select from an album that you feel like should be in contention.

Whatever song gets the most votes will be discussed in the first. finale and considered for Outcast Best. So head to At Dissect Podcast on either Twitter or Instagram and you can cast your vote there. You'll see a poll. You could also leave a comment. So again, head to At Dissect Podcast, cast your vote and I hope you enjoy today's episode. Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing. I'm Cole Kushna and I'm Charles Holmes and on the third season of Last Song Standing, we're covering the greatest hip-hop group of all time. That's right, Cole and I are here to decide the greatest outcast song of all time. On our first three episodes, we tackled stankonia, AT aliens, and Southern Player.

And today, I have a question for you, Cole. What is it? What's cooler than being cool? You messed it up. What's cooler than being coal, okay? Oh, my bad, my bad, my bad. Guys, we fucked up the bit, but guess what? This is probably one of the most important episodes of the season

because we're going long on one of the most, mysterious, greatest artist of a generation. That's right. We're clearing out for a special Andre 300,000 episode. We're diving deep on the love below. And then right after that, we're getting into all of the features, the best Andre 3000 versus, yo, Cole. How are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. I just got back from vacation. I'm feeling rested. I'm feeling zend out. I'm ready to battle with you. Oh, that's one of us. Okay. At least one of us is zend out and fucking cool. All right. But yo, wait, you were, you were in Italy? I was in France and Germany. Isn't it? France and Germany. Yeah. Very nice. Did the Parisians

were they just like, oh la la la, it's monsieur de sect? Oh my God. That was, sorry if we have any French listeners. They're like, we don't talk like that. You know what it reminded me of? I was playing a lot of Tyler the Creator, call me if you get lost. I was in the south of France. which is like the countryside, wine country is so beautiful. That kind of flute-based sample music went so beautiful with my trip. It was very lovely. Sorry to make you jealous. You were listening to Tile the Creator in the south of France.

I was actually, yes. You sweet, demented, twisted boy. I hate you so much, Cole. But this is not a Tyler season of last song standing. This is an outcast season. And to get everybody caught up, all right? We've done stankonia. A.T.L. is this other place.

I have picked on my list for the season, B-O-B, Elevators, Players Ball. You have Ms. Jackson, ATLE, and Southern Player, and I'm going to be honest. Cole, you have to, you have to roar back because this whole season has been you on the back foot for once. You have become prepared. Do you have anything to say to the audience about your performance up until now? All I'm going to say is that you pick some unrealistic trivia questions, the answers of which were like Tony Braxton, Nothing to do with Outcast. So I feel like he duped me into this list that should be yours.

My list feels like a Charles list. Yours feels like a coal list somehow. We're in Bizarro world here. I'm mostly pissed about elevators. You know this. I said this many times. You snake that one like a true troll. You've been actually very good this season about your trolling and your hot takes,

but that was egregious. It might be the most egregious move in L-A-D-S history, but we're here. I'm going to come back on this episode. Andre 3000, I am so ready. One of my favorite artists of all time. Talking about Tyler. We're talking about Frank. Name an artist who's not a current artist that's not influenced by Andre.

Hard to come by. So beautiful. I'm ready. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And for those that have forgotten, let's refresh you, all right? Each episode of Last Song Standing covers one album

where we are both forced to pick the best song off that project, a.k.a. the last song standing. Then in our season finale, we'll have a Royal Rumble, where we'll bring the songs we've chosen from each album and duke it out until we both can agree on what is the single greatest outcast song of all time. So guys, speakerbox, love below. One of the most insanely successful albums, hip-hop albums of all time.

It was Outcast 5th, released on September 23rd, 2003. The LP is divided into two solo projects from Andre and Big Boy, aka the speaker box, which is Big Boy Side and the LaBalow, which is Andres. It produced five singles, ghetto music, hey, yeah, the way you move, roses and prototype. The album was outcast's first to debut at number one on the Billboard 200 and sold 509,600 copies in its first week, eventually going diamond. When I say this is actually like one of the best selling albums of all time, it's crazy. It's insane. and it won album of the year at the 46 Grammys, making it only the second rap album to ever do so.

It also brought home the best rap album, Grammy, and the best urban alternative performance. Now, I'm very, very interested to see where you're going to go with the concept of love below, because to me, I get the concept, but it is not sometimes as tight as I would want it to be. So, like, Cole, can you give the audience the, the kind of the short form thematic elements of the love below.

Yeah. So, okay, I spent way too much time on this. I'm just going to tell you. Wait, whoa, for the audience, just hours-wise. Like, how about how many hours did you sink into this? Maybe four in terms of... Four? What?

All right, that's how I can tell you just got off vacation. You're like, I can do four hours and dissect prep. It's not... Yeah, so because I understood that there is a concept to the album, but I didn't know to the degree to which it is a song by song story narrative, like, legitimately. Did you know this or am I just dumb and didn't recognize the obvious storyline? No, so I did not realize until doing research for this project, not to step on what, like, what you're probably going to break down, that this is essentially like a story by story breakdown

of a screenplay or at least a movie that Andre was making. And when you learn that, you're like, oh, this is the narrative backbone to this. Yeah, the conception of it, if I'm getting the details right, if you know, let me know. But it does seem like it was first going to be conceptualized as a movie. Even the speakerbox and love below were supposed to be was originally intended for Idle Wild, right? That's because that's why a lot of the Idlewild songs on the album are from this album. But then that film got delayed a number of times.

It's all kind of messy. I don't know if you understand it more than I do, but that was kind of the basic gist of it. there was this movie idea with a paired album that never really came to fruition fully. I think at some point HBO was like asking Andre to like for his ideas for this movie. So to your point, I don't know how much of Idol Wild was supposed to be this. Right. But it seems like there was a couple scripts, a couple turns. But I know about as much as you do.

Okay. So I wrote, I'm going to, I promise I'm going to be fast with this. But I did write a song by like one sentence. each for each song about how it forms this narrative because I don't I haven't read to this detail the narrative outline of this and I think maybe listeners would be interested in it.

So the Love Willow is a concept album that tells the story of a man named Ice Cold and his journey to find the love of his life opens with the song Love Hater which establishes this need for everyone to find love and the key here is that masculine tough guys like Ice Cold pretend not to feel this kind of love and yet in reality they're just bearing their feelings deep down.

This is the reason for the title, The Love Below. It's this feeling below that is being suppressed. Andre said, quote, In hip-hop, people don't really talk about their vulnerability or sensitive side a lot because we're trying to keep it real or be tough. They think it makes them look weak. That's what the Love Below means, that bubbling underfeeling that people don't like to talk about,

that dudes try to cover up with machismo. So we then hear Andre, aka Ice Cold, ask God directly, to deliver him the love of his life, which he then meets on the song, Happy Valentine's Day, after being struck by a bullet from the character Cupid Valentino. The woman will later learn

is named Caroline, but Ice Cold has a one-night stand on the song, Spread, then ends up falling in love with her as revealed on the song Prototype. Then on the next song, she lives in my lap. It's revealed that Ice Cold is having trouble

settling down, despite this woman being committed to him and faithful to him. This failing dynamic is further developed on the next song Hey, yeah, where ice cold questions if she actually loves him or is just afraid to be alone. Then on the song Roses, Ice Cold leaves the woman resentfully, failing to reach the love below and giving into his machismo. So I'm going to pause right here because it's kind of the break in the narrative. Are you buying this so far? And are you relating to it personally? I am buying this. I did not do four hours of work on this. So this is actually helping me out. I am halfway dissected.

So keep going. Okay. So the next. Next two songs, Behold a Lady in Pink and Blue, Ice Cold meets a new woman, an older, sophisticated woman. They eventually have trouble too, though, as documented on the song Love and War. Then on the song, She's Alive, it's revealed that Ice Cold actually impregnated Caroline, and she's now raising that son on her own. Meanwhile, on the next song Dracula's wedding, Ice Cold is once again thinking about settling down with that older woman, but once again is getting cold feet.

Then the twist on the track, the letter. cold receives a letter from Caroline who reveals that she's still in love with him, which is symbolically represented in the next track, My Favorite Things, an instrumental cover of the classic love song. Then on Take Off Your Cool, we hear Ice Cold in either Caroline or the Order Lady, I'm not really sure. They tell each other to take off their cool, meaning they want to know the real them. So narratively, this kind of functions as an amical breakup as it's implied in the next song,

vibrate that Ice Cold doesn't really know who he is. So then on the final kind of the penultimate song, Vibrate, the narrative concludes with ice cold encouraging the audience to masturbate, which symbolically means to learn to love and please yourself first, discover that love below, and only then can you open up and love someone else. Charles, do you agree that masturbation is the key to finding true love? Always, you know, gooning for life. Who can argue with Andre 3,000? So that's it in a nutshell. I was like, what the fuck is going? What were those three words?

You said again? Gooning. Gooning for life. Gooting for live is that he said? What? That's what Andre wants us to do. We have to love ourselves below. Oh my God.

Sorry, Justin. I know. You're not happy with it. I, you know what? It's the producer's job to maintain some sense of decorum on this show, I think. But I was last year, the one for a last onstanding being like, we need to make sure that we get the Frank Ocean cockering involved. Exactly.

I am going to beat the Gooner Life allegations. That's all I'm going to say. You're going to beat the Gooner Life allegations? I'm going to shut my mic off for a few. I'ller when you're knee back. Charles, is you buying that narrative? Oh, I'm dissected. In my four hours of work could press you?

I'm dissected. Also, the reason why this makes me, because before this, I was going back to watch a bunch of the videos from the LoBelow speaker box. And hey, yeah, I did not realize how much that kind of also had a narrative of, it's all these characters like ice cold and they all have these different names and personalities. I was like, I don't remember why.

Like, I forgot that there was this much to it. So I am thoroughly dissected. I never knew that the story was as clean as that. Obviously, there's Caroline and all these things. But great, great work. Now, my question, before we go to Justin's. Wash Corner, did the story or writing down the narrative of this project make you like it more? Well, okay, you're asking us a very specific type of person, maybe the most extreme person in the world this question.

But yes, it definitely helps me, getting the concept of any album helps me understand it and relate to it more and appreciate the effort of the concept. I don't know if I ultimately took away liking it more or like it more. like wanting to listen to it more. But having a more holistic understanding of the concept did make me appreciate it more. Again, I don't know if I'm going to be listening to it any more than I would. But like a lot of things on this album, the effort was there, the ambition was there. The execution may be not so much every time or every song, but I appreciate the effort, especially at this point in his career.

What about you? When we start nominating songs, we will get into my complicated feelings about this album. I will just say that reading about the project, reading about what Andre was going through, reading through what he was striving to do on this album, made me like it more, even though if it still feel, it doesn't feel of a piece of the outcast narrative.

And even going back to listen to it, I was just like, damn, I had so much joy listening to some of this as a kid. And now there's just like a bittersweet moment of, oh, they're kind of their, career did end on a down note, did end on a them not necessarily being together, them, almost the end for them was, all right, here's our solo album, peace. And I thought that even more now.

But Justin, before Cole and I share where we were in 2003, where were you? Was this, this must have been like your second or third job, you know, your 30. You're out in the world. So watched that I don't even get the intro anymore. I don't even get what we call this segment. I mean, it's been so many weeks since we've recorded this. I forgot what we call this. We love these olds.

Oh, all right. Pass Charles. You are so smart. When your brain was still working, when you were not covering the bear in House of the Dragon, you were quick. We love these olds. All right, Justin, this is our time in the show where we let you back. To be embarrassed to have passed Justin.

Yes, yes, exactly. Can you take the listeners back to 2003? What was going on in hip-hop? What was going on? What was going on? What was going on? 2003? A little thing called the Iraq War. A little Janet Justin Timberlake action. That's just a really chaotic here in the world and culture. Hip-hop, interesting year, right? The only thing that I felt, the North Star, I shouldn't say the only thing, but the North Star for hip-hop that year. really was 50 Cent in G unit. That's like the alpha and omega of what's happening in rap music that year, right? Like 50 Cent comes out and has the biggest debut album since Snoop Dogg decade earlier. He crushes everything. He becomes like this overnight sensation. Like the mix saves have been bubbling. up for a while, but then the album comes out, but in the club drops, all these songs take off.

And like, I don't think you could go outside for about six months without hearing get rich or die trying playing from someone's car. Yeah. It was just insane. And that's even growing up in Rhode Island, right? That's not even like, I'm not even talking about like I'm, you know, in Queens, hearing people blasting this. But it's an interesting time because it is, we are now in the post, JZ, Nas beef era. We're actually getting ready for Jay-Z to do his quote-unquote retirement. The Black album comes out later this year

in 2003. But at the same time, we start to see the New South rise up. I think this is the first time doing the show that we have another prominent Atlanta artist who's making noise at this time. Well, I guess ludicrous. No, Ludacris chicken and beer.

I remember as a kid, chicken and beer. I was trying to think if Ludacris was coming up before this. No, but I was thinking TI. T.I. Trap music comes out this year, right? So, like, but the ludicrous and the TI and then, like, very shortly after this, Gucci and Gizi, like, you start to see these other Atlanta artists rising up for really the first time in doing this entire exercise. Like, you start to see this. Outcast just aren't the only artists from Atlanta.

Like, the trail that they blazed is now being followed by all these other artists who are making very different. kinds of music, but also very clearly influenced by Outcast in a lot of ways. I think it's probably best if I just get into what my disc changer, this might be the last year that we do this. Well, that's my favorite part. Yeah, the disc changer. Okay. For 2003, what I would have in my car disc changer, the five or six CD disc changer, I would have

the Black album, Jay-Z. I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't want. I got the rat patrol on the cat patrol. Foes that want to make show my cast is... Has it aged well? Do you guys think the black album's aged well? I think it's corny. Like, it is corny. But when I go back and listen to it, there are enough moments where I'm just like, actually he was still cooking and the documentary. Watching the documentary actually makes me like that album more. And the production. The production is insane.

Literally every song on that album is still great to a degree, including the one Eminem produced, which is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, guys, guys, hot take. Moment of clarity. It's a bang. Except for the Talib Kuali. line because when he says, if I, if lyrics sell truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kuali. Biggest lie. Biggest lie because one, he wouldn't. Two, Jay-Z was always a better rapper than Kuali.

And that's my, that's my take. It's not even, not even a hot take. That's not even a hot take. That is a very cold take. I would also have Get Rich or Die trying in my dischanger. And you know we don't give a fuck and that's your birthday. You'll find me in the club. Not a full of book.

Look, money. I had to decide because I couldn't have both of these. I had to decide between the Juell Santana album or Diplomatic Immunity in Charles, which was... Oh, you can't have both? I could have both, but I need to make room for some others. So I'm going with diplomatic immunity. But I'm still on the corner grinding for that big stack. Big Coke, big that.

Don't ever forget that. Like anything that has dipset anthem and I really mean it on the same album is like 100% The best song, We Built This City! You can't do it. Cole, do you know what we're talking about right now? I do. I know that album.

Let's move on. Let's move on. We Built the City is awful. For a little bit more in line with Dissect, I would have the J-Lib album. Plus them, 22. What you say? What's them? Third Row.

Square Tands. Which is the J. Dilla Madlib album, where they were rapping over each other's beats. Charles is making some eyes the same way that I was making eyes when he was talking about his private goon cave. This is my, my version of a goon cave is just with a bunch of like stone throws

and raucous records like 12 inches just flat. True. That's a true head. True heads. The heads cave. This is not, this all sounds awful.

I have to, actually the most embarrassing thing I'm going to say maybe in this entire season, which is saying a lot. Speak your truth. Probably the little brother album to listening.

This is a message for our people chasing Benjamins With real rhymes and skills They believe in there Keep in them 2003, what a year? Just, you've left some good ones But it's fine No chicken and beer, really?

No, I've Boy in a corner, Dizzy Rascal I was supposed to some Dizzy Rascal I was supposed to fuck out of here with Dizzy Rascal No See, I could have said trap music Because I think over time I've come to really like trap music

But I, you know, we've already established I had to pick my size Between East, West, North, South at the time because it really mattered where I landed on all of this. And I wasn't, I wasn't into the TI album at the time, but I've grown to really love it. But I'm just trying to be as honest as I can to pass Justin. That was a great we love these old, honestly. Like, my heart grew so much. We learned a lot. Now, before we get into nominations for Love Below, it's time for the most contentious segment of last song's standing, all right? It's time for album trivia or aka

I'm sorry y'allie. I've been killing Cole this season. Cole, honestly, do you want to go first? Should I go first? Honestly, I feel like you're going to get mine, so I'm not that confident this episode. I'll be real. All right.

You hit me first then. All right. There's only one other voice on Hayah. Can you tell me her name and her job? I will give you a half point for each. Very interesting question, because I do know the answer to this one. Because you researched it.

God damn it. So she was a assistant to the engineer in the studio, correct? That is correct. That's half a point. And her name is Rebecca Tooney, I think. This is, I hate this. Fine. Fine.

That's one point on the board. One full point, no challenge, like clean sweep coming here, right. Okay. Let me hit you with this one here because we talked about the hey-ya video. In the video for Hayah, there is a green casket full of flowers placed in the middle of the stage. What is the symbolism of the casket? Did you notice the casket? I just watched this video with art.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, when you know it's there, it's obvious, but I was looking on the internet and like, everyone's like, oh, I never even saw the casket. So it's not just here. So the symbolism of the casket, and I'm assuming. If you did your research, you would know, but go ahead. You know what? It's fine. And fucking, there's another question. I don't care.

What's the symbolism of the casket? According to director, Brian Barber, the album is about a guy searching for love, his love of music, women, his mother. And we wanted to bring the casket in to play up the theme of this guy wondering, is love dead? And can we revive it? So that's the symbolism of the casket.

Next time you watch the video, look for it. It's full of flowers. It's very beautiful, very symbolic. All right. So you're definitely going to get this one, but it's fine. I felt bad for you. this is an easy one. You'll get a half point for each.

Can you give me the name of the two films Andre wanted to base the Love Below movie on? Fuck, I don't know. Actually, I didn't read this. Yeah, just tell me. All right, the first is quite obvious. Purple Rain. Oh, okay. I should hear.

Okay. Purple Rain and then Amelie. Oh, okay. I was upset. I was obsessed of that movie when it came out. Okay, last question. The song prototype. was originally written with the intent that a very famous female singer would perform the song.

However, after recording the demo, Andre felt the song would be more authentic if it came from him directly. But who was this female singer originally intended to sing prototype? It's a biggie. It's not Erica Badu, is it? No. Think bigger. Bigger. Beyonce?

No, I'll give you one more guess for a half point. Was she big at the time? I would say in 2003 specifically. Oh, and here's the thing. This is my best educated guest now because his engineer was working with this artist at the time. Is it Gwen Stefani? Oh, good guess, but no, is Janet Jackson. God damn it.

All right, that was a good one. You got me on that one. I'm not going to lie. You got me. All right. This is the first episode that I get first picked, by the way. It's fine because here's the thing. We're not going to pick the same song.

It's like that's why I'm, I'm good with it. It's fine. Oh, you don't think we're going to, okay, interesting. All right. So now that we've set up the history and themes, we let Justin get his old shit off. We did the quizzes. It's time for what you guys have been waiting for, the nominations. And the Grammy goes to the Love Below Outcast.

All right, remember the goal of each episode of Last Song Standing is for Cole and I to determine the single best song from an Outcast album. The songs we select over the course of the season will then duke it out in our season. the Nally, aka the Royal Rumble, where we're forced to agree on the last song standing, meaning the greatest outcast song of all time. All right, Cole, I feel like before we get into round one, we're only having two rounds for this

because we have to get into the features. I feel like the audience is not going to be surprised by this, unless I'm wrong. The two nominations for this seem almost so clear. Yeah. That should we maybe have a, a clear out before we nominate those two songs for songs that we like off this album, but just cannot be picked.

Yeah, I think that's a good strategy. And I am curious because we didn't really get to talk about it too much yet. So maybe as we ease into that conversation, I'm curious to know your general thoughts about the album, maybe what you felt at the time, and then maybe what you felt returning to it, just general thoughts and then maybe highlight some of the strong points that you're considering for this episode.

So this album, I think, was very, very important to me for my development, just as someone who is absorbing pop culture. I remember, like, it's weird to think about it, but I must have been in middle school at the time. We were playing this at, like, family reunions. Like, I would be, like, at barbecues, and you would hear songs off this album. And it had crossed over to a point where, like, my parents at the time, who were in their 40s, my grandparents. Everybody's just listening to Outcast. It's hard to imagine that after Ms. Jackson and B.O.B. And the success of Stangonia, that this group still had one more gear left. Like one more. Cultural moments, you know. Yeah. It's like, it's, unless you were alive in 2003, it's very,

very hard to describe how big and colossal this album was. Because to, to Justin's point, get Richard die trying was the biggest thing moving. But I think in a different way, like, hey, yeah, in the club are the two songs from that year that are just like, oh, both are imprinted on me. I know every single word. But it's interesting. I never have really liked the love blow as an album.

When you read about how Andre came up with it, you can kind of tell that he was limited as an artist, I think in a couple ways. I think the first is this is really not the first, time ever. Rappers had been singing for years and years and years. But I think this is probably the first time that you get an artist or a rapper that was this popular to basically at the height of his success be like, I'm going to essentially make Prince Karaoke. I'm going to make a mostly R&B album, a singing album. And the fact that it works is insane. Yeah. And I think that going back,

Hey-on Roses still loom so large over this process. project. Like, I like prototype, spread. She lives in my lap, a life in the day of Benjamin Andre. All of these songs are really, really good. But I think because Heya and Roses are such perfect songs and we're so successful, even going back to this, in comparison, the rest of the album feels a little unfinished. Is that, am I being too unfair? No, I think that's a fair assessment. I think similar to you, I liked it in the moment. I remember listening to this a lot. It was one of my most played albums of that year for sure, very vivid memories of opening the double disc up

and getting the two discs and the two different artwork, playing the CD at the skate shop that I used to work at this time, and just really loving, I think, especially at that time in my life when I was kind of figuring out who I was as a creative and as a musician, songs like the opening track Love Hater, you know, I'd never heard a song like that, someone blending these kind of big band jazz sensibilities with this the abstract guitar solo mixing these you know kind of like what we talked about with bob it seems like the ambition of a

bob is kind of spread out across this entire project where he tried to make all those elements he incorporated so perfectly in bob i feel like he was trying to make an entire album with that kind of approach right like incorporating all all types of genres from jazz to funk to soul to prince style rock, which is very ambitious, especially when you read about he's learning how to use pro tools. He's now recording by himself at his own, at his house. And it's like, you know, we talked a lot about how early outcast started out with organized noise producing 100%. And then slowly across the catalog, they start self-producing. And it's kind of this slow wean off of off of organized noise and into being the full producers of, you know, like stankonia.

And you see Andre attempting to do that, but now 100% on his own, right? This is an entirely self-produced album. It seems like he was pretty intent on it being 100% self-produced. And the ambition of the album and the things he was striving to do paired with a lack of experience and a lack of mentorship, it seems like, to execute those ideas. where early on in Outcast production, they had organized noise there to answer questions, to be their mentors as they're figuring this thing out.

It seems like this was him kind of just tinkering around in his house by himself, you know, and I feel that kind of isolation, and I feel that lack of development on a lot of the tracks, not all of them, of course, but I think where it does fall short is a lack of development and maybe him not really knowing yet how to fully develop a song without rapping. You know, if you listen to like every song on this album, the chorus of every song pretty much is fantastic. Andre's always been great at writing hooks, right? Where I feel it

falls short is some of the verses, some of the bridges, that full development of a song is lacking, especially on the back half of the album. So I think your, your assessment's fair to bring this full circle. I remember loving it in the moment. I remember returning to it like years ago and being like, man, this doesn't really hold up. It doesn't activate the same excitement that it did in the moment. And then with this exercise, I actually did take a liking to it. And I kind of landed somewhere in the middle where I'm like, I do think it's a, it's a, I wouldn't, obviously it's not like their best album. But it's a solid effort. It's an enjoyable

listen. It's, it's got good vibes. It's got great, great, great moments, great highs. But as a full, complete project, it definitely leaves me a little bit. Just not my favorite, I guess. I would say. I mean, and before we get, to nominations, I will say this. I think the genius of this album, though, and him trying to do it all himself, is that we talked briefly about we're starting to get T.I. Ludacris is coming into his own as a pop star. We're going to get Gucci. Jeasy. It's funny how influential this album would be only a couple years later once you start getting like future and young thug popping out. Or even some of like Kanye's.

like, do you get an 808 and heartbreak if Andre 3000 isn't like, all right, I'm going to make a whole R&B very romantic album with me trying to sing? Even Lowell Wayne at this point, when he's about to start going on his mixtape run, he starts kind of singing more. He starts striving for different things. We end up getting rebirth. So I do think that while the love below doesn't necessarily congeal as an album to me in 2024 listening to it, I'm like, oh, this is one of the most influential albums just for the next 15 to 20 years in rap in terms of laying a blueprint for how a successful traditional rapper can push the boundaries and start taking on different personas, taking on more challenging musical ideas. And for that, I have a very, very soft spot for this

project. Yeah, well spoken. And with that, Cole, maybe you'll surprise me. Maybe you won't. I'm going to start my nomination process off with what I think is one of my favorite songs of all time and has one of the greatest music videos of all time. I'm going with roses. Yeah. I know you'd like to thank you. Shit don't stay. Roses is that jam. It makes me laugh till this day. Before I get into roses, are you nominating this or do you have another song in mind you want to nominate? No, my final nominations are the obvious ones. It's this and obviously we'll get to it. But yes, I nominated roses.

So I think what works about roses to me is that I've been going on this journey with like Andre and some other rap where if you take Pharre for example, I think rap is full of artists with great voices who don't have technically proficient singing voices. Like Farrell and Andre, they get. by with the character, the emotion, they can sell a song. They're not as great of a singer as I don't know, Whitney Houston in any terms. But I think roses is a good example of like when a rapper decides to sing, imbueing it with a level of parody, a level of emotion, a level of silliness. The entire hook for this song is essentially like one extended like poop joke. But it is just this roses especially feels like the song of this album that isn't buried in the self-seriousness of the theme and the sentimentality of it. It just seems like honestly kind of like older outcast in terms of just like being a little bit more juvenile, a little bit more playful, the call in action, all of this stuff.

And then ironically, this is one of the best songs off their solo projects because Big Boy, comes through halfway through and he injects it with a bunch more energy and you're like, oh, big boy and Andre are the greatest ever. This is what I've been waiting for. Yeah. So I we can go longer on roses but just top level thoughts

on it. It's good because this is just a classic outcast song. Yeah, it is funny that listening through the entire album, it's like what, the only song that's like kind of massachianistic, it's like, Andre's like, oh, you know who'd be perfect on this song?

Big boy. It's like the only, the only feature he has on the entire album is on this one. But it's, yeah, it's the perfect coupling. To your point, I love the silliness of it. It's, it's got to be their silliest song, right? The second verse where it's like, she's being on the way to the club trying to hurry it,

like, crash, crash, into a ditch. Just playing. It's so good. I hope she's speeding on the way to the club, try to hurry him to get to a ball on a psych up somebody like that and try to put on the makeup, a mirror and crash crash crash

into a ditch just plan I smile every single time because I think especially if you read a lot of profiles of Andre at this time I think he is going through a lot of personal things especially I think he had talked at one point about a little bit before the love below he starts kind of getting diagnosed

I don't know specifically what it was but he could not be out in crowds. Like just fame, all of that stuff. He was getting very nervous and anxious. And Roses to me is a song that does not have a lot of that angst. It doesn't have a lot of those nerves about fame. It just, I don't even know how you make something like. The crazy bitch outro is just crazy. Oh, man. Wait, have you watched the music video recently? Yeah, I watched it the other day. It's also so funny because even the music video does a very, very good job of playing upon who outcast was at the time in terms of like, all right, Andre is the weirdo lover boy

that everybody at school is making fun of. He's singing the play. And then there's this moment in the yearbook where they're describing big boy and he was like, captain of the football team, bully, coolest guy ever. It's just, even at that. point, both of them are still very cognizant and aware of the narratives and the stories that people are saying about outcast. And to your point, it's hilarious that the most misogynistic song on the entire project has Big Boy on it, because on speakerbox, you're just like, Big Bois definitely in his bag in terms of how he's speaking about the fair sex. Let's just say that. Yeah. Okay. Can I give you my dissectable moment?

Oh, we're getting a dissectable moment We are, and it's in the vein of roses Where it's kind of a joke But maybe not really Okay So do you have the lyrics pulled up for the chorus? Can you tell me the chorus? I know you like to thank your shit don't stink

Sorry, I'm not gonna do it. Okay, so he says, yeah, you know, like Do you don't like things, your shit don't stink But get a little closer Rose's snow like, like, ooh, ooh, ooh. Okay, so. It's like, okay, so it's talking about, you know, a flower that traditionally smells good, but if you get too close to it, it smells like shit. Obviously, this metaphor for a girl that thinks she's all that.

But are you aware of what scatola is? I don't even know if I'm saying this right, but do you know what scatola is? No, I'm no, and I'm really, really worried. Cole, Cole, could we get a spelling on that? S-K-A-T-O-L-E. Is this like... Skat-L-L-E? Is it... Skat-L-L-E?

Is this like pale... for shit. It's well, okay, it's an organic compound primarily responsible for the foul odor of species. I think it's where the term scat comes from. So scotola is what gives poop. It's bad smells, right? However, in low concentrations, scotola has a flowery smell and is found in several flowers and essential oils. So isn't this like the perfect symbol, this scotola? Because it's not intentional, obviously. But Andre's talking about this girl who looks or smells good at first, but ends up smelling like shit when you get too much of her, just like scotola, where in small doses, it smells flowery, literally, but in large doses, it smells like shit. Are you dissected?

All right, so, uh, cool, I'm giving out my first get the fuck out of here award of the season, like you tried. I'm glad that you tried. I was riveted, but hell no. Don't know. Don't No, no. You don't think I should make it? Should I make a TikTok about that or no? Leave that one out. Call, Cole, the kids are already about to start coming after you, okay? Don't need to give them any more, any more fucking ammo.

Before we move on to our second nominations, I think the thing about roses is, roses is a perfect pop song. There's also not that much to say about roses, I think, because it all is just kind of there. What the song is, it's catchy. But even trying to like go back and be like, oh, what's roses about? And I'm just like, you all know what roses about. I will see. Yeah, but to your point, I do think it's worth emphasizing that like this song could

have been on stankonia. It's one of the few songs on Love Below that I think would slot perfectly into stankonia. It does feel more collaborative. I don't know if it was. I didn't read about if this was a collaborative effort or if Big Boy just got the call and laid down a verse. But it does feel like in this exercise of the greatest song, Outcast song, it does feel like roses might be the only song from this album that we could i mean big boys on it so

it's like it does feel like a true outcast song in this solo project so in this exercise i do think it's important to note that it does have that classic outcast collaborative feeling and maybe it's the best pick off of this project for that reason can i ask y'all of this before we move on to our second nomination yeah does speakerbox the love below have the potential to be one of the greatest outcast albums of all time if you just get rid of there's both of the solo albums. If you're just like, we're taking like the five tracks off each, which are the best and basically just running it back and doing stangodia.

Because I was like trying to do this and maybe we could talk about it more when we get to speaker box. But I'm like, there's a good out. Like if you like, you know what I'm saying? If you just did like prototype, she lives in my lap. Hey, uh, roses, a day in the life on Andre Benjamin. in. I'm like, that's just a really good, like, those are really, really good songs. If you take the five best off speaker box, you essentially just get stankodia. That's what I'm saying.

I don't, yeah, at this point in their career, I don't know if there's, because we talked about on the stankonia episode, there is this divergence happening. And you can kind of tell the Andre leaning songs and the big boy leaning songs. So I don't know if you're ever able to escape that separation by this point because they're so, they become so individual in their artistry. True. But I had the same exact thought. I was like, there is actually a great outcast album in here. If you combine it and they lay verses, there are songs where I can hear Big Boy on and vice versa. Like, I want to hear, I think Big Boy could have crushed Hayah.

Can you imagine Big Boy on that song or no? Oh, no, he would have done amazing. And to your, like, I want to say this about just going back and listening to Andre, I realize the thing that we don't about Andre that is like hard, I think, for people, is that Andre to me is a short storywriter. He's great at short films. He is like at one point he said in an interview that I was reading. He's like, I didn't start coming up with the hooks until Equam and I.

It would be like Big Boy would pretty much have the hook. He's like, I didn't know how to write them into Equimini. So I do think that his natural state is feature versus is coming in and being like, oh, I'll lay like a little bit of a hook or I'll lay one verse or I'll lay two verses and then I'm gone. And I think what the Love Below illustrated to me is like he might not be an album artist. And that's not me saying like there is a good album in Andre 3000, but I think he works best in small spurts. And that's why we tend to like his features because he only has to give us so much and he does not have to carry the rest of it. And if we go back into a lot of the

earlier Outcast projects, Big Boys kind of carrying a lot of the songs. Just time wise. Is that unfair? I think that's totally fair. I will say this, though, after listening to Love Below, because it was his first effort and we never got the second or third or fourth iteration of these ambitious ideas, I was left curious. And this is kind of the more philosophical kind of question about Andre and his career

because I feel like part of his lore and his magic is that his catalog is so constricted and tight and we didn't get those follow-up efforts, but it did make me wonder, could he have made, could he have built on these ideas, got better at the execution and made, and blossomed into essentially the full iteration, the full, realizing the full potential that we all see and hear in the love below that, that just never came to fruition because he just literally didn't try it. Is that, is that, did you wonder the same thing? Or is, is that, is that, Is that fair to think about? I think, no, I think it's fair to think about.

I do think that at a certain point, I started taking Andre, like, at face value for what he was saying. And for years, I think he has been telling the audience, I don't have that much more left to say. Yeah. And I think, like, every year or so, every other year, the reason he, like, pops up on a feature is because he has 16 to 32 bars of shit to say. Right.

I don't actually know if there's a, another solo album in him after the love below because it's not like Andre 300000 has given us that many verses like if you think about in terms of like jZ versus Andre 300 like Jay Z has verses on verses stories on stories and I think Andre is a different artist where he's just like guys I gave you my life I gave you everything I had that's it yeah I don't I think it's hard for people to like come to grips maybe with that reality. The Andre's solo album has always kind of been like the Schrodinger's Andre's solo album.

If it doesn't exist, it could be great. Could be terrible. Exactly. But in our minds, it's great. You know, we never have to find out. I mean, it's, it's, we honestly got this phenomenon when Dr. Dre finally dropped his album. The Compton album, yeah.

And we don't even talk about, like, here's the thing. That album has been memory hold to such an extent. And that's what I feel like if Andre dropped a rap album, that's how I would feel like it would be where it's like there's no way it would live up to people's expectations. And if it fell short of that, we would just be like,

that doesn't count. Where's this other album? Yeah. But like, we only have one more song to nominate. You guys already know what it is. It has to be hey yaw. One, two, three. My baby, don't mess around me.

Hey y'all is, I think the gift and the curse of Andre 3000, I think it is honestly the end of a certain phase of his career, if I'm going to be honest, where it's like he goes out on a bang. I think most rappers, I'm getting really into rock and roll moments, generally are terrible.

And Andre decided to do that shit. And he's like, I'm going to give you one of the greatest pop songs of the 21st century. And it's still, this song looms large over out. cast career, over Andre's career, over popular music. There was a time where I could not listen to Hey, yeah. I had listened to it so much as a child. Anytime it turned on, I was like, turn this shit off.

Cole, did you have like a similar, like, like I, I fell in love with it again through this process. Yeah. But there was a moment. I might have gone like 10 years without listening to this song. Same exact, yeah, same exact experience. I was exhausted of the song. I've loved it since day one.

I think it's one of the most original pop songs we've ever heard. It's a song that only he can make in the same in the, and maybe someone can write, well, even the melodies are so unique, but the instrumentation, the tempo, the silliness,

the playfulness, the catchiness. Like, it is such a great, greatly written song that was abused to death. I saw that video a thousand, that video is great, but I've seen it so many times.

It's just the classic, it got too big for its own kind of reputation. I didn't, listen to it and really until this exercise, uh, in terms of like really studying it and learning to love it again. But it's undeniably, I really just a, I wouldn't say it's a perfect song, but as far as a pop song go, that, that is interesting, that has all the cultural moments and elements you'd want from a song like this, a phenomenon song. It's, it's one of the best phenomenon songs I have ever heard. I've got some nerdy shit about it. But did you, okay, so,

I remember in the moment back then, did you really understand? I'm guessing you kind of understand the message now that you've kind of taken a look at the lyrics. And I think maybe generally speaking, people realize that this is kind of a depressing song that is wrapped in this kind of candy-coated polish veneer that makes it sound like it's not, like it's a happy song. But did you, in the moment, do you remember understanding the lyrics or just thought it was like a positive? Not in the moment, because I was, I was in middle school, I think, at the time.

But to your point, as I grew up, it is, and because, like, people have done, like, shitty covers of it where they slowed down, like, if you are, like, listening to the lyrics, I think, and I'll talk about the third song that finishes this trifecta. But I have a kind of theory that there are three songs that explain the later stage of Andre 3000's career when he was still, like, a recording artist putting out albums. I think the first is Miss Jackson, and we already spoke about Miss Jackson, this very somber song about, about like having a child with someone, falling out, falling out with them, falling out with their mother and all this stuff. And hey, yeah, if you listen to the lyrics to me is like the second stage of that relationship of this person kind of questioning, can love be forever? And it's like, to your point, it has this candy coding.

but if you listen to the lyrics, it is Andrei. And I know it's about this like screenplay and everything. But it does feel like Andre, to me, really trying to grapple with, is love real, is wedded bliss real? Can you stay with anyone forever? Do I believe in monogamy? All of these very, very heavy things. And he ends it almost, before he gets to the really, really catchy call and response,

he says, y'all don't hear me. You just want to dance. That's one of the saddest lyrics. And he just says it. It's like he just throws it off and like re-listen to this a bunch of times. I'm like, this is a heartbreaking fucking song. What the fuck? That's like the coffin and, you know, that detail.

Once you know that detail about the song, you see it, you know. And like, I mean, I'm just going to read that second verse that gets to that line because it's, it's really well written, especially in the context of this poppy kind of bubblegum pop song. He says, you think you've got it, but got it just don't get it till there's nothing at all. We get together, but separate. It's always better when there's feelings involved. If what they say is nothing is forever, then what makes love the exception? So why are we so in denial when we know we're not happy here?

Y'all don't want to hear me. You just want to. So when you just read the lyrics plainly like that, it is so clear how sad this song. I don't know if it's sad or it's just a very, kind of vulnerable and honest pondering about the nature of love, right? But the fact, the genius of him rapping and in this, this love song, or not love song, but a love sounding song, a positive sounding song, a happy song, and that it fits, I was really impressed how perfectly it fits into the narrative. Like, he didn't sacrifice narrative. It fits perfectly with the timeline. This is the

song where he realizes that he's not going to stay, he's contemplating leaving Caroline, but feels like they should be together, and he executes it so perfectly on all, all fronts. And Andre says something to MTV News when he was like, hey, yeah, is pretty much about the state of relationships in the 2000s. It's about some people who stay together in relationships because of tradition, because somebody told them, you guys are supposed to stay together, but you pretty much end up being unhappy for the rest of your life. And what makes me sad when he like breaks it down like that is I think a lot of the love below too is kind of about this artist that is more famous than he probably ever wanted to be separated from Erica Badu, trying to kind of come to

terms with is love even possible for someone of that stature? I think even in interviews he's talking about. He wrote Love Below because at this time, think about it, 50 cent is out there. You know, this very machismo, very just like hungry, aggressive dip set. And Love Below was not what rap is supposed to sound like at that point. And I do feel like it's like, oh, can I find love as what? He's in his 30s now, early 30s. Late 20s, I think. Yeah. And what's interesting too is like Big Boy kind of has. everything that like Andre doesn't right now. Like Big Boy, even though he's playing the Pimp, he's like settled down.

He has a bunch of kids. Like he's doing the fatherhood thing. And that's why when I went back to listen to Hey, there was this bittersweet moment where I was like, oh, he was kind of telling us even at the biggest moment of his career that celebrity and what it's done to him and what he's had to sacrifice for it is not all he thought it was going to be. And that's why I'm just like, it made me actually appreciate the song more where I used to feel like when I was done with this album being like, hey y'all sucks. All this shit sucks. And I came all the way around where I was like, oh, Andre 3000 is underrated. He's just as much as a genius as we said.

Yeah. I mean, for this to be his biggest song, the song that he's probably going to for better or for worse, be remembered by the most to have these kind of details, to have this level of production. this uniqueness of sound, it fitting into the concept of the record. Like, you know, it transcends, I think, it has a lot of qualities that not a lot of pop songs that get to this level have, right? And so I love that at least in a song that maybe you and I wouldn't want him to be remembered the most, it still has some very meaningful qualities. It's not just a throwaway pop song that doesn't mean anything. To that point, can I give you my, I have two dissectable moments in this episode.

Let's go. Okay. I got to pull up my keyboard here. So we just talked about how this is kind of a depressing song about love that's hidden in this bright pop package, right? Yep. And so the chord progression is very interesting. Let me just play it first, and then I'll point out the detail that I want to point out.

So it goes a little something like this. Okay, so that's the main chord progression. All right. For all the music nerds out there, it is pretty cool because there's three measures of four-four, and a measure of 2-4, and then three measures of 4-4. There's a little kind of metric glitch in the chord progression, which is you'd never really find that in a pop song.

So music theory nerds probably already knew that, but I just wanted to point that out. But the chord progression is interesting because in this song that is saying, speaking about love in a somewhat depressing way, or at least questioning the validity or the authenticity of love about people not staying together in the 21st century, but it's sounding like the,

beautiful pop song until you really realize the chord progression has a really cool detail what's what's called a deceptive cadence and i've maybe i covered on this show i've definitely covered on dissect dissective cadence is when you hear a cadential chord which is a chord that sets you up for resolution it's a it's a chord that when you hear the chord and then you hear the resolution chord it feels like a complete it feels like a state of rest it completes itself so what you hear you hear is this let me just play you the first half again and then this chord right here is the cadential chord in basic theory it should resolve into this chord so this chord is setting you up as tension and where we wanted to resolve is to g major and it gives us this ah nice feeling of

completion but that doesn't happen it goes to a minor chord so we're set up for this tension that's It should be released in this beautiful kind of resolution, but instead we get what's called a deceptive cadence, and it's a minor chord. It's a sad chord. And so in this song that is on one level, feels bright and happy, but when you dig into it,

the lyrics are deceptive. The song itself is deceptive. You find this deceptive cadence that there is this somber, melancholy under the surface of the song. It's reflected in the chord progression, the concept of the song is right there, not only in the production, in the lyrics and the contrast between them,

but also right down to the core progression. Did I sell you on that? I am thoroughly, thoroughly dissected. It makes me like the song even more. Congratulations. Here's the thing. After the last one, I wasn't trying to give you any points.

Again, one for two, I'll take it. You surprised me. That's all I had for, for Hey, y'all. You have anything else? My last thing that I wanted to ask you, hot take. Okay. Does the, did the video, of Hey Ya helps sell the song. Because if you just listen to Hey Ya without ever hearing the video,

it's such a weird, weird pop song because it seems like there's so many other voices, but they're all voiced by Andre and they're all stacked on top of each other. Even the engineer was talking about like he would just go into the booth and it would just be hundreds of recordings. And I'm about to delete one. And he's like, no, that's the one that I'm using. And the video does something that a lot of videos just don't do anymore. Where it's like by doing that very like Ed Sullivan, Beatles type construction, showing this band that all looks like Andre, all singing, doing the call and response,

it sells me on the version of what I'm supposed to be hearing. Yeah. In just a way where it was like, I was like, oh, the video did do a lot of heavy lifting. Because like even L.A. Reed, Andre was saying that like L.A. Reed, when he went to show him, hey, yeah, didn't really get it. But he's just like, I don't get it, but I trust you. And now I'm like, damn, like the video really kind of really just sold. What the weirdness is.

It's funny that you, it's funny that you said that because I had the same exact thought when I was listening to it, I guess maybe for the first time in headphones and really like concentrating on it, right? We talked about this with Ms. Jackson. It's like we've heard these songs so many times. assumed that we know them, but then when you actually, actually listen to it, I'd had the same exact thought, not so much about the video. I just remember it feeling way more full than I do now when I'm just listening to it. But then when you watch the video, I get exactly what you're saying. It kind of makes up for this lack of fullness. I mean, not to describe, I don't think it's in a bad way

the production, not disparaging it at all. But it did, I just remembered it. sounding bigger. It's a smaller song when you're not watching the video. Exactly. And even it does that thing of that great pop songs do where it's like sometimes

they'll go back to listen to a Michael Jackson song and I'll just be listening into my headphones and I'm like, why does this song sounds smaller than my memory? Like there's those weird songs

and it was like when I went back to watch the video I'm like, no, this is how I remember. Hey, yeah. And I was just, it's my brain doing the trick of, oh, visually.

you're compensating for something that might be a little bit smaller in a yeah and I think maybe just the reputation of the song how large it loomed over pop culture it's built up into our heads into this big big thing and I think before we before we go we do need to acknowledge to shake it like a Polaroid picture as being following Miss Jackson

with the forever forever forever like a cultural quotable that that my mom knows you know what I mean like we shouldn't take that for granted that to shake it like, you know, it's such a great part of this song. It's the corneous line ever. I know, but it works. No, but the reason why it works is because you're just like, it's such a corny line, but it's, you know what it reminds me of not to, I know we're beating a dead horse at this point. Hey, yeah kind of has a lot of what not like us has, where it's just like when you get to that refrain, you have something that sounds so corny in a vacuum, but you can't remember pop music

existing without this line existed. Like shake it, shake, shake it. That takes the song over the top. But also what is funny, I feel like that shake it like a Polaroid picture is what distracts you from how sad the song is because he

immediately just goes into this like crazy catchy refrain and I'm like, how can a song that has shaken like a Polaroid picture all of the Beyonce's Lucy's get to the floor also be saying something so like existentialist. Well, it's funny because he, but he said that up with, he says, y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance. And that's the pivot point of the song. And he kind of like, kind of shrugs his shoulders and gives up. It's like,

no one's listened to me anymore. Let me just give you what you want and just fully dives in. Shake it. Shake it. Shake it. Like, you're not supposed to shake a Polaroid picture. Here's another 15 second dissection. Do you think this is intentional or do you think this is a thing? Shake it like a polar, like you're not supposed to shake a polar. Like, you're not supposed to shake a polaroid picture. picture and you actually risk destroying something or destroying the image when you shake it. So is this an intentional metaphor for trying to force something to happen at the risk of destroying it just like the relationship? No, I get, yeah, I was no one of Charles in it.

Yeah, no, bro, you my man, cold kid. I admire the effort, you know, I could feel that reach all the way across the area. Well, guys, this is going to be a little bit different of an episode, okay? So both Cole and I agree. The two obvious nominations from this are Hey, Yah, and Roses. So now that we've made the case for what songs from the love below are in contention for Outcast Best of All Time, each of us will choose our last song standing, the song we're bringing with us to the season finale Royal Rumble.

But then you have to stick around because the real deal starts. We're going to break down. on 30,000's greatest features. So, because you won Spodiote, Quizzolicious, Cole, which song are you choosing? This is kind of tough, actually, because I do really enjoy both songs, kind of equally, to be honest.

Hayah has the reputation, Roses has the outcast quality. This isn't me trying to lead you in any way. Which song do you like better? Because it was interesting. Even though Hayah is the bigger song, I actually like roses a lot more. I think I would rather listen to roses if I was forced to choose between the two. But then I'm trying to think, okay, but is that just me hearing Hayah a thousand times?

Do I not want to discredit Hayah because it is a really great song. It has the cultural ubiquity. But I think in this exercise, I'm going to go with roses. I think, hell yeah. I'm going with Hey, y'all. Did you bait me into that? Yes. Did you bait me into that?

Hell yeah. I mean, I stand by what I said. I like roses better. Even when I was a kid, at the peak of Hayah, I was just like, I like roses. This is fun. Big boys are the greatest rapper. This is dope. But hell yeah, you fell into the trap.

I'm happy with roses. I'm not, I'm happy to have it on my list. But it was a win-win. Let's be honest. Oh, both of these songs are amazing. And if we're being honest, like, spoiler alert, neither of these songs are probably going to make it that far in the Royal Rumble just because they come from.

Yeah, I think Roses, we might be able to make a case. But yeah, Hey, Oz kind of. Oh, roses will make a run. But like, hey, y'all, just off technicality, it don't got Big Boy on it. And the greatest Outcast song needs to have Big Boy on it. Agreed. Justin, before we go to Features,

you have a Coaches Challenge where you can take any song into the Royal Rumble. I feel like you're not going to choose any of the songs. I mean, look, I really like, she lives in my lap, like I said earlier. I really... She lives in my lap. And I really, like, you know, I think one of the cruel ironies of this album is that one of the best songs is the song where Andre wraps. I mean, he raps on spread. This is one of my favorite.

But the life of Andre Benjamin is such a good verse. It is like, I think it's one of Andre's best verses. But you guys, I think, picked the two best songs off this album. I do think a funny thing is developing that we need to discuss, though. And I think that when we get to a quem and I, this is going to break. But so far, all of the picks have been singles. Here's the thing. People are going to get mad at us.

But if we're being 100% honest, if you go back and you listen to a lot of these albums, Outcast does have a lot of, a lot of, lot of great album cuts, but their singles are so important to the fabric of popular American music. Do you not want us to choose,

hey, or elevators, or be, like, be serious, you know? I'm just saying, if you guys are okay

with being basic, I get the argument. Well, here I'll say this, what makes Outcast special unlike a little bit different, well, definitely I think different

from Kendrick and certainly from Frank. is that their singles are still such a great representation of exactly what makes them great. I think they are legitimately their best songs in many, most cases. And it's what makes them so special is that they work on both levels, right? They're crafted with elegance and art, artistry, yet work commercially, which I think is one of the hardest things to do with music. And I think honoring the singles in that way is honoring outcasts. appropriately. I can't wait to our on season 20. We're doing, we're doing Jay-Z. And you guys are

sitting here being like, no, actually money cash hose does represent. I mean, it does. Money-cash host is fucking fire. Let's not be guys, guys, let's not be prisoners in the moment. All right. We're back for part two of today's Andre 3000 extravaganza. And on this part of the show, Colin I will be nominating songs that Andre has either featured on or released as solo work, essentially anything not branded as outcast. Cole and I will be nominating two songs each, and Justin will also be nominating his favorite Andre feature. So we're not going to belabor this point too much,

but we have to talk about why, and we kind of have started a little bit. Why is Andre's feature run so important to music? And I think for me, it definitely has to do with the fact that after Love Below and Idlewild, if you want to count it, we just have not gotten that much, Andre. We just got another solo album, which was his flute album.

And I think absence definitely makes the heart grow fonder. And I do think that every single time Andre has come back with a verse, nine times out of ten that motherfucker delivers. It is something where you're just like, everybody stops. And you're just like, oh, shit. He's one of the rare rappers from his generation. still where when Andre 3,000 jobs averse, people are still like, oh, fuck, stop what you're doing. Andre's back.

But to you, Cole, why do you think that Andre's feature run has taken on this mythic level of significance? Yeah, I definitely want to hand this to Justin our resident historian because I think his perspective will be great for this. But I'll say this about it, especially having, I listen to, I mean, however many, I've listened to pretty much every single feature he's ever done in this. past week. And I think one thing I realized, especially having now spent so much time in these older albums, outcast albums, is that there was an evolution in his flow and his wordplay

that stayed with the times. I think you can hear the influence of a Jay or a Little Wayne, those kind of metaphors, like we can really get the entendre, a lot of the acrobatics that were present in those early outcast albums, but not to the degree of the features. And I think the evolution of his flows and his wordplay and just his craft never diminished, where I feel like Big Boy, in contrast, kind of, we know what he is and he delivers that. And there wasn't, at least in my mind, that much of an evolution from early outcast, Big Boy to current day Big Boy, where Andre, I feel like, keeps getting better somehow. even on his most recent features,

there has never been a slip, and it kind of adds to this lore, to your point of his absence, paired with when we do get him, it is usually just some of the best lyricism we've ever heard in delivery. So with that said, I would say, yeah, just, what do you think?

Well, do you guys know when you hear a good punchline and you just feel it inside you? Yeah. How many artists today do you feel like are capable of delivering a line like that? Oh, it's so few of them. The list has grown smaller. I would say, like, obviously, Kendra comes to mine.

Lupe still comes to mine, you know, on a smaller scale. But, yeah, that list has grown shorter over time, for sure. But Andre's still on that list. Near the top. Like, I think of some of the more, he's good for one of those adversities. Yeah. I think, you know, I think you guys are both right. and I don't know even as the historian

how much I can truly add to this, but just to put a finer point on a couple of these things. Despite Andre's boredom with rap, he has really only gotten better as a writer in the years since the final outcast albums, which is wild, right? Because he just, you know, I don't know what Andre's doing in his free time.

I don't know if he's actually writing albums worth of material. For some reason, I really doubt it. But when he steps away for a while and then comes back, It's like he's better every time. Yeah. And it just, it almost defies logic for a man in his, you know, in his 40s and his, you know, his late 40s now? He's getting up there.

Yeah. And, but he's still getting better as a writer. And I think at the same time, you have the scarcity factor where you only get three of these a year if you're in a good year, right? Sometimes you go a whole year without them. Like, it was funny to be looking at. the features run because there are definitely like peaks right like happens 2007 there's a bunch of things also he's giving out features to a lot of artists that you freak yeah got you're just like

you're like Chris Brown doces got a feature from on like you're just like what the fuck is got and like these are good verses which are like Andre really like yeah we we we were joking yesterday about the Kesha got one kensivani got one there are a lot of people who I'm like how did y'all even, but that speaks to kind of the mystery of Andre, because also it's interesting what rappers he gives features to, because he's still very indebted to, like, the South. So if you are a popping southern artist, honestly, in the 2010s, like, T.I. gets a verse, Ross gets a verse, Travis gets a verse. Like, he is very much, like, future, if you are a Southern rapper and you pass his smell test, Andre, you're like, he's kind of like, hove.

And a lot of ways, he's like, here's your one Andre 3000 verse. Use it wisely. Right. All right. So, guys, it's time for the nominations. We're Cole and I are both nominating two songs each. Justin gets a nomination. How about we start Cole with maybe the songs that are like closer to our hearts,

but not the obvious picks? Yeah, I think, I don't know why, but I gravitate towards that late mid, I guess, but also like late 2000. 2010's era. So like 2015 to 2020, where he's doing a lot of stuff. So a lot of my kind of shortlist comes from that era. There's one from called Where's the Catch on James Blake's album, which is really, really, really great. Of course, the two Frank Ocean features solo reprise and Pink Matter are on my short list. Do you want me to just get into my, probably my lesser of the two nominations? Oh, well, you already started talking about your short list. So like just I'm not going to believe. the ones that did not make it, but I think the two songs that shifted my brain in terms of thinking of Andre outside of Outcast and I think are so important in terms of starting the myth

of his features run are throw some D's and walk it out. It's insane that Andre was like, I'm going to give one of my best verses on the walk. Walk it out. the reason they chalk it out. You can't be the king in the parking lot forever. Not saying I'm the best, but if they find something better, I am here, no fear. Write me a letter till then.

I walk it out. I walk it out. I walk it out. I walk it out. I walk it out. Justin, do you think that other, do you think like a kid now would listen to the Walk It Out Andre 300 versus be like,

what the fuck are you guys talking about? Yeah, I mean, I was listening to it. I mean, it's so funny that that feels like kind of like the big bang for the Andre feature thing, like write that and throw some D's. And I kind of think that those verses don't hold up compared to some of the ones he did a few years later. They don't, but they have a nostalgia factor to them. They do. Is it just that those songs don't hold up?

All right, walking out. Throw some D's holds up. Throw some D's is one of the greatest rap songs of all time. Don't do that. Don't do that. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? Why did you have to do that?

That was a troll. Throw some D's. Here's the thing. Walk It Out is a nostalgia. Like if it comes on at a party, like cool. Am I listening to Walk It Out and my whip? No. I'm not going to break down either of those verses, but I do think that like if you're around at the time, a lot of people will yell at us if we don't acknowledge that this all starts. And me, I was infecting my parents computer, like just downloading rips of, like, of Andre's verse on Walking It Out and throws some fucking D's. I was just like, this is the greatest music will ever fucking be. But without, with that out of the way, can you give me,

give me your first nomination, Cole, the one that maybe I'll expect the least. Okay, yeah. So this one, so my two picks that I wanted to show the kind of the both sides of the Andre feature coin, which is technical proficiency and emotional resonance. So my first one is, well, it has both, but it's more on the technical side. It's on. Come home by Anderson Pack, 2019. on the album Ventura. here. I spent way too much time breaking it down. I'm not going to give you all the facts, but just let me

say, over 72% of the words rhyme on this verse. There's 11.5 rhymes per bar. Per bar, 11.5 rhymes average per bar. There is multiple flows. The syncopated rhythm that

he establishes from the start. All the nerdy shit, multiple pockets. And if you listen to the verse from start to finish, you'll notice that he is ramping up the dynamics and the intensity across the entire verse to where it crescendos into this really rapid triplet, multi-layered vocal kind of outburst. And so just the long-form dynamics of it is just on a technical level. So, so fucking great.

You know, I'm suffering. I don't miss my friend. I don't like my fan bent up telecom. Well, that's illifone, sweet stuff. Willowon. Whitchuck, billabong leeks that minimum week. Go get along peace and intercom. Jesus.

It's been a long T I am I. Please, I'm feeling down. Please, I'm feeling down. The concept of the song is about essentially like Anderson lays out this thing about men don't beg girls that leave them to come back to them anymore. And he's trying to bring back this dynamic, I guess. That's the central concept of the song. And so when you hear Andre, the opening minds, he says, you're all I need, all of me on my knees. Normally harmony, bumblebee, hummingbird.

You just hear the, just the beauty of these words paired together, right? But he's tying into that concept, which is a perfect song conceptually for Andre to be on. Sentimental, begging a girl to come back to you. That's so Andre, right? There's great wordplay. I'll just give you one quick example. He says, I'm a nerd. Study you.

What are you? WWF, we fighten might need counseling. WWF then in this context becomes a double entendre. It's a reference to World Wildlife Fund who studies animals. That's where it comes from right before that. He says, I'm a nerd. I study you. He's referencing bumblebees and hummingbirds.

But then right after he says WWF, he says, We Fighten, referencing WWF, the wrestling company. So just like, that's just one example of really great entendres wrapped in this really technically proficient verse. That's also, I'll keep it short. He also, okay, he also arrives Harry Wet Twat with Harriet Tubman. which is just fucking crazy. But revisiting this verse,

were you familiar with it, Charles? Were you as impressed as I am with it? What did you think? So I can't lie to the audience. I had missed this verse because I can't do Anderson back. That's no shots at him. I know in a vet. He's very talented.

I just can't do Anderson back's music. I got to be real. And I listened to this verse and I was just like, this is Cole Corps. Like, this is Colt. Like, this is Cole. Like, this is everything I don't like about Andre 3000. And I was hard because I was like, we've been agreeing the whole time.

And I was like, I'm going to like, like our friendship has been blocked more and more. And when you said this shit to me, I'm like, I'm going back to the old. I don't like this verse at all. Am I a hater just? I just want to say that if we were building a case against Eminem and he had rhymed the words, hearing that plot in Harriet Tubman. We would be, if Eminem wraps those words

that the memes on Twitter are going to be out of control for a week. We would slaughter him. Yeah, because it is a technically proficient verse. I get everything that you're saying, Cole. It's just, I'm like, this is why you can't put Anderson Pack

and Andre in the same room. It's just the vibes are, you just, I can't. I can't. Even when PAC started singing about like, why don't men beg anymore. I was just like, I don't think I'm going to make it an phrase for a cell.

I don't, like I almost shut it off. And then you sent me a video where, and I watched it where they're like breaking down. They highlight the rhyme schemes. Intricacies, all the rhyme schemes.

It's like if you guys should go out there and search it, you could just type it into YouTube. It's very, very instructional. I get all that. You waste, you wasting one of your

precious nominations on this song, But okay, but in my mind, if like we're talking about Andre as a top five all time, he's got to have, like he's got to have this in his bag, you know, this technical proficiency above most people. So I wanted to highlight, even though it does get little like lyrical miracle or at least like kind of self-obsessed with its own concept in terms of the rhyme schemes and all that. I do think I just wanted to highlight. I mean, I genuinely like the verse. It's one of my favorite of him. authentically, I really believe that.

But I did want to highlight, I know, I kind of know where you guys are going with your picks. I did want to highlight on a technical level, Andre is unassailable. He's one of the most gifted lyricists and delivery of words that we have ever heard in music. All right. So this is my, one of my picks is the, probably the most Charles pick. But I don't give a fuck.

This album deserved better. This artist deserved better. better. One of the greatest Andrei features of all time is Ben's friends off the classic future project, Honest. Told a girl, I'm about to sail the portion tired of it. She go and told these folks I'm going broke. It's my mouth for from my lips. Because if I'm broken, it's only hard. Dropping records when broken English, that's all it.

Hold on. And if I were, why would you throw apart it? Affection is so convenient when bawling. Correction. Eho don't mean it when falling. I get that while lowest can't be with Clark Kent. I thought that bitch. I'm going to go ahead.

I'm going to remove myself. You guys have fun. Talk about this verse. I'm removing myself from the conversation. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Why are you removing yourself? Buckle into the bends because you're a friend and we're going on a journey. Here's a thing.

This is what I love about this. All right. You can tell on this song, like, Future was ascendant. I think if we're talking about how important love below is, I think Future is the son of that project in terms of, I do think that there is a kinship between these two artists where Future does take the love below and he runs with it. And he creates a career that is built on like honestly just some of Andre's maybe not most enlightened lyrics. But what's what's future's most prince like album?

It's Hendrix. Come on. You didn't have to think. Whoa, I was I was going to say is it we still don't trust you. No. But I. I respect it. Now, you can tell on this song that Andre really doesn't think, like, doesn't, he really doesn't want to be outwrapped by future. And he is rapping with a chip on his shoulder. He has four different flows on this. Some of the shit that he's just saying is, like, when we're talking about, like,

punchlines that still hit you, I love the, like, it's not even that good, but it just makes me laugh when he says, but this shit comes back up like some acid reflux or Michael Jackson's jacket with some plastic zippers. Like, I'm like, what? Like, it stops. Just like, who thinks of this shit, bro? I have to write her burpia down because my memory sucks. But this shit comes back up like some acid reflux.

Or Michael Jackson jacket with some plastic zipples. I was zipping through the city and I don't give a fuck. 1994 Toyota land cruiser because the bitch ain't ever broke down on me. Why would I do that to hurt? There was, I do think that there was this moment where you could kind of tell that future. future was not only becoming the king of Atlanta, but he was, he was becoming, you know, almost bigger than the city. And to have Andre show up on this and future hold his own, them going in and out of pockets together, what is there not to like about Ben's friends?

The last thing I would say is like, there's just so many lines where he's changing his flow. And there's one part that I always love where he says affection is so convenient when ball in. correction these hoes, don't mean it when falling. And then he just kind of like shrugs and does a, I guess that's why Lois can't be what Clark can't. And it's just, he says it's such a like just an offhanded way. And I think a lot of rappers, when you're matching kind of futures tempo, his energy, his coolness, I think a lot of rappers are trying to like go to war with that.

And what I love about Ben's friends is he does deliver it with energy, but it's still laid back in that classic Andre 3,000 way where he's like, I'm not going to zero 100. I'm like cruising at 65. It's fine. You're going to get all these words. You're going to get all the similes. We're going to go in and out of pockets. Ben's friends is just a great song. Cole, now you can hate on one of the greatest songs of all time. I'll take whatever you have no. I'm not going to hate on it. It's just not, I mean, I just feel like you guys do the authority on this genre of hip-hop. I didn't want to just, I didn't want to crash the party. So I wanted you guys to

You didn't want to cry. What are your thoughts on Future's Honest? Cole? Yeah, what are your

favorite songs on Honest? I'm not authority on future. I'm a casual future fan. I'm not going to

give you the deep cuts. I'm not built like that. What do you think Cole's favorite song on On Onus is?

On Honest? Oh. Wait, it's probably I won. You think is I won? Probably. It's a very, I won is a very sweet

song. Wait, T-shirts off this project. I love T-shirt. All right, now I'm going to insert myself and say, let's move on. You guys had your moment. Let's go.

All right. All right. Cole, what is your second nomination? All right. So in my attempt to showcase both sides of Andre, or at least two main sides of Andre, I'm going to go with the emotional side, the one of the few rappers, at least in my opinion, that could take us to an emotional level of this next feature. I'm going with Life of the Part. Party by Yeh featuring Andre 3000.

Let's go. Hey, Miss Donda, you're running to my mama, please tell her. I said, say something. I'm starting to believe ain't no such thing as heaven's trumpets. No after over, this is it done. If there's a heaven, you would think they let you speak to your son. Maybe she has in the form of a baby's laugh. I heard passing by in a stroller reminding me, hey, keep rolling on.

No. Maybe she has with a prick of a blade of grass. I've been laying on way too long. Got me itchy. Got up and wronged a little more. This verse is, I have nothing technical really to say about it. I will just say it is one of the verses that I cannot listen to without tearing up. And I mean that genuinely.

Every time I listen to this, I teared up. For those that don't know, the concept of the song, Life of the Party. On Donda, Kanye says, there's a song, Jesus Lord, Kanye says this on that song. He says, Mama, you was the life of the party. I swear you brought life to the party. When you lost your life, it took the life out of the song. party. And so this idea, this, this, the symbolism of Donda, Connie's mom, her death, and this idea of life at the party gets kind of inherited in this song as the central concept, or at least that

seems to what Andre interpreted it. If you listen to Connie's verse, it doesn't seem like he even knows his own concept as well as Andre does. But so Andre crafts this beautiful verse on this album called Donda, where he is talking to Donda in heaven in order to communicate with his own mom. I'm going to tear up even fucking talking about this. I will say, Cole, I was really mad that you picked this because I was like, I can't listen. Like, I don't even think I'd listen to this song before this because it does make me, it puts me in a place where I'm like, this is one of the most beautiful things ever. But it is, it's just like a fucking emotional. Like, how does an artist create a verse that is,

this affecting and this beautiful and this. Yeah. So just to finish the concept, he, he, for those that are unfamiliar, he's, he's trying to talk, he's talking to Donda to communicate with his own mom in heaven

because he feels disconnected and lost, is, has lost his connection to his own mother. And so he opens a verse saying, Hey, Miss Donda, you run into my mama, please tell her that I say,

I said, say something. I'm starting to believe ain't no such thing as heaven's trumpets. No over after this is done. If there's a heaven, you would think they let you speak to your son, which is fucking just one of the most heart-wrenching lines I've ever heard in a verse. And this is the gift of Andre, especially, this is 2021. This is less than three years ago. He's, you know, we talked about his longevity, getting better and better. And conceptually, the delivery, the kind of the storytelling where he's going in and out of these memories, he's giving like, he's asking for forgiveness on some level.

He's admitting things that he never admitted to her mom and to his mom in real life and kind of like using this verse as opportunity to give those admissions. Then towards the end of the verse, he tries to talk to his father who's also deceased. He says, Miss Donda, you see my father, please ask him why he never married, always smiled, but was he happy inside? Because I carried my mother's name. Did he carry shame with him? So it's like, again, that question, did he carry shame because I didn't adopt his last name? Those are the things you think about when you can't, when after your parents passed, those kind of thing, those lingering questions that never got resolved. He's addressing him here, asking him here.

It's like, it's one of those verses. I'm just like, man, he really laid it out for us and shared it with us. And it's extremely special. I mean, I haven't, you know, knock on wood, I've not lost my parents. so I know I don't even grasping the full emotion of this song but it's so special it's I mean even and just the end of the verse I just have to read it I'm supposed to smile as if God knew that I would be troubled keep me around for what I don't know but I do know that it's crucial that we do so pronto I don't know for how much longer though so he ends on this kind of existential question of like I don't even know why I'm alive I can't talk to my parents.

I'm feeling disconnected. Why am I around when they're there? Why am I not there with them? But then kind of tries to end on this optimistic note of like, we only have so much time and we need to live now. But I don't know. I'm going on about this thing. But it's so special.

It's incredible. Emotionally just one of the most powerful verses I've ever heard. No, I love this verse. I mean, one of my favorite moments of the verse is when he basically starts talking about like, is he hearing his mother's voice in a baby from a stroller or when he's sitting down on a blade of grass and tickling it? And then he's going back into the past and talking about how when his mom was smoking a cigarette, he would dramatically cough to make her feel bad. But then he would run away to light up a joint.

And it's like knowing Outcast's history and his history with like loving marijuana, but being mad at his mom for smoking and all of these different things, it is, it's that type of verse. you're just like, oh, an artist could have only made this song. I mean, could have only made this type of verse at this point in their life. And he's still so phenomenal at rapping. He's still trying new things. The way he's rapping where he's like, he'll tell a part of the story. He'll get to the end of the bar. He'll pause and then he'll finish the rest of it.

I just, I don't know. This is a great choice. It's also funny that you can make the case that Andre is just as good, if not better, at delivering these type of verses now than he was at what was arguably his peak, which it was around, I would say, like, 80 aliens, equamini, into stankonia. I'm just like, this,

I could put this verse up against any of the verses he wrote in his 20s and still feel like he hasn't lost any of his edge. No, not. And I mean, this is to me that, like, you know, there's kind of a conversation going on about how rappers age, at what point should they retire?

Should they retire? or should they keep continuing on? And it's like, if you're going to age, if you're going to continue to rap, these are the kinds of verses that I personally want. I want the experience. I want those verses that you couldn't have written in your 20s. I want the verses not trying to mimic what you were doing in the 20s.

Give us who you are completely now. What are the thoughts that a 40-year-old pushing 50 is going through? These haven't been so much documented in hip-hop, these kind of sentiments and these kind of thoughts and feelings because we haven't really seen too many rappers extend their careers into their 50s, right? And if they are, it's like, we could say Eminem, he's 50,

but he's not really, he's not taking it to this emotional level, right? So I just, I hear a verse like this to your point where I'm just like, man, if we had more of this from other people, you know, Jay did it a little bit on 444, and that's what, those are the kind of like older verses

that I really have come to appreciate. And this is like maybe the best example of someone pushing 50, that is older, but giving us just some of the best lyricism we have ever heard. I mean, I will say this before I get to my nomination. It's verses like this where I'm like, no, I understand why Andre is so reticent to make a whole album because I'm like, I don't know if even the most talented rapper could do a verse like this two, three, four, five times.

Like I do think that this is something he's talking about a very difficult moment that's stretched over years of his life and it's coming in in one verse, an extended verse at that, but he's telling you about this very, very emotionally fraught moment. And I'm like, I kind of, as a consumer, respect the fact that I'm like, I would rather have one perfect verse than have an entire album where he's trying to get to the same sentiment and it never reaches these heights. I'm just like, hey, I can listen to this verse over and over again and still feel like, damn, at least he gave us this. And to do that, like, I don't, like, I'll ask you, Cole.

Do you really think that Andre could, like, just be this emotionally available across, like, 12 songs? I don't know. Like, I'm like, most artists really can't. That's really, really difficult. Yeah. No, I don't think, I mean, it's a tall task. I would say that.

I would think, I mean, my mind goes to Kendrick. It goes to songs like sing about me. I think where I, knowing the conceptual tendency of And especially after digging into Love Below, I think like a Kendrick who could tell a story to get us to sing about me. So that song works in a vacuum, but it works exponentially better within the narrative and everything that comes before that moment. And so I guess I would wonder could Andre deliver not an album like this, but could he bring us to a moment like this in the same way that sing about me resonates, where he can get to this level, not everyone or most people or maybe no one can get to this level every single time but knowing that he can could he narratively bring us there to even make this something something like this even

stronger because this verse i don't want to go too much on the negative parts of this song but to me connie kind of ruins the song conier ruins the entire like i don't listen to connie's verse after this because i'm just like why would the concepts don't they don't match up to me or maybe i'm just missing the through line, but I don't know. It just doesn't, or maybe it's just so good that it, why would you, yeah, you can't put anything after this. But yeah, I think that that would be my answer in terms of like, I do kind of wonder if conceptually he could have done a Kendrick-like thing, but we'll never know, unfortunately. So I'm taking a bullet for this show because I feel like people would, uh, yeah at us. It did not pick this song. This song definitely just,

Yo, it is what it is. It's a banger. People love it. I'm going international plays anthem. So I type the text to a girl I used to see saying that I chose this cutipower with whom I want a beast. And I apologize if this message gets you down. Then I secede every girl that I c cede round town.

I do think that this is just a great song. It does have that hayah effect for me where I've heard this so much that is just like on my own. I'm like, I never want to listen to this again. I've heard it. players anthem almost more than any other song, that that's not hey-out. But I think what works about this and why I think people love it is that there is a magic to the fact that, all right, structurally, especially with the video, what this does is like Andre does basically position

himself as the groom on the, um, on the altar, reading his vows. And you're, you're just chugging along. you're chugging along and you're like, where's this going? Where's this going? In terms of just like the energy and the energy. And finally, when you get to the final, keep your heart through stacks, keep your heart. You know something that's coming like a wedding. Boom, Pimsy comes in. It's beautiful.

I think the rhyme scheme on this, just how he starts, where, so I typed a text to a girl I used to see saying that I chose this cutie by with whom I want to be. he's ending it on the he's ending it on that C B rhyme but then very very quickly he's like then I see see every girl that I see see round town and he's introducing new bars where it's like he switches up his rhyme scheme in the middle and he starts another one and he keeps doing that pretty much through the whole verse yeah also there's just like the tongue twisters of like what the fuck does this mean how do you think about this um when he does the spaceships don't come equipped with rearview mirrors they dip his

quick as they can, the atmosphere is now ripped. Dude. To, like, who thinks of that shit? Who thinks of something? It's crazy. Like, I wanted to come on here and be like, oh, international players anthem isn't that good. It's overrated.

And then I started listening to it. No, it's like, this verse. Well, everything that I said about the come home verse in terms of technically, you can make a case that this is just as good on a technical level. And it doesn't shove it down your throat. But to your point, if you go and study the internal rhymes, the N rhymes, the interaction between those, the alliteration, you know, the enchantras, which are fucking wild on this song, I have to say.

I'll probably get into just a couple very quickly later, but I think the more and more I studied this verse for this episode, the more I was like, man, this might have all the elements that we love in Andre packaged into one. If you're going to give an a, like, to the point of this exercise of like, if you're going to give an outcast song to an alien, what would he give him? It's like, you're going to give an Andre verse to someone and he wanted to show as many sides and as many, you know, the, the kaleidoscope of his talents. This would be a great contender for that because it gives you pretty much everything in one verse that's very accessible too. And even he's doing like a lesser artist would do that thing

where it's like, Andre's playing like different characters. It's like a caller response of like all of the people, his homeboys, his friends who are telling him, like, don't get married, it's too soon. And instead of trying to, like, do something like a Kendrick would do, where it's like he's changing his voice or whatever to match whoever's talking to him. No, Andre's just rapping and expecting you to kind of, like, keep up with the fact that he's playing these different characters. And I even think that, I said it earlier in the episode, if you think about Ms. Jackson as the beginning of someone who is out of a relationship and apologizing to his, baby mom's mom about how things shook out. And then you go to hey yaw, which is very much about

like this man come to grips with like, is love real? Can it be forever? Is monogamy a thing? Is this woman with me for the right reasons? You get to something like international players anthem, which does not tie it neatly into a thematic bow because he does leave it open ended where you don't know if this guy is going, this marriage is going to last forever. You don't, they, all of his people like, don't let, don't take your heart through stats and all that shit. But I love the fact that like where we end in that trifecta is a little bit more positive is Andre coming to kind of an understanding about like marriage and love and what

it means to him. And I think it's very, very funny that the three biggest kind of songs, I feel like of Andre's career are, do have this thread of like matrimony and love. that ties back to even what, like, listening to this song and then listening to Life of the Party, I'm like, oh, he's still having the same conversation about his mother, his father, taking someone's name, all of this. Yeah, I'm going to say, him's asking his father why he never married is to me setting off, you know, light bulbs in my head because it's like, that's passed down to him.

His struggles with marriage, his struggles with settling down. He inherited seemingly from his father. So that line specifically in Life of Donda in light of a verse like this, in light of the love below, the search for true love, all that stuff across his entire career. Yeah, it's very, I don't want to say on brand. That kind of minimizes it. But he's definitely been searching for something for a very long time. So can I ask this? I don't know if I believe it, but listening to International Players Anthem again, I was like, I could make the argument.

Does Pimsy have the better? I was going to say I was going to say that can it be on the Andre list when Pimsy has the better verse

I don't know if I believe that Pimsy has the better verse I don't know I don't either I was like it's so close please make the case there might be something I'm not understanding but you guys saying that

is like fucking wild to my ears. You want to know something? All right. First of all, Opening? My bitch a choosy love. Oh my God. What? What? Cole, you've, you've never been in the club when that went off to have you.

Money on a dresser, drop a compressor. Like, what? I understand there's something I'm missing. I just need you guys to fill me in because I, this is going over my head. This take is going over my head. I had a friend who lived by this life advice. He said, you need to marry a girl who can not only rap every word, to the Andre verse, but then turn around and hit the pimsy verse.

Yeah. If they can't do that, apologies. Top-notch hoes get the most, not the lesser? Like, that's a bar. Like, I love pimpsies verse. I don't think technically it's as good, but when this drops, it's like, well, it's a perfect verse. Part of that, though, is Andre taking the drums out and kind of gifting that moment.

No, no, you don't gift anything to Pipsy. Well, well, well, there's no gifting. This is the remix. This is actually UGK gifting outcast. But it was Andre's idea to drop the drums out, which they originally didn't want to do. I don't know. I'm big on like the music emphasizing the verse. And so much of that impact to me is that you get the drum hitting out of nowhere

right when Andre ends his verse without a break. Can't be overlooked. I don't think. All right. Play your part. Play your part. My fit to choose it. Love or never fuck in the seats like it on top of the cup.

Drive up. Yes. So, Justin, you have, you have one pick. What are we missing off this list? It's tough. It's tough. There are many, many great verses. Coming in like Trump is saying that.

Many, many great verses. I was thinking a lot about what I said earlier about the peaks and like you have the 2007 and then I think you have a more recent peak. But we don't have anything from the 2012 era. In like 2012, we have a couple of verses. We have the aforementioned verse on Channel Orange that he did on the Frank Ocean album. It comes out 2012. We have the verse on another Atlanta rap. rapper's album, T.I. in the song, Sorry, which I think is a great, great, great verse.

But I hate the song. I like the beat. I don't like T.I. And I don't like the chorus. But I like the beat and I like Andre. Is that fair? Same. That is, that's why I couldn't pick it. I like the verse. I just don't like the song. The chorus is like, mm, just doesn't fit. I have to go with another one from 2012 because when I first heard the song, it floored me. And when I was listening over the past week or so, it floored me again, is the Rick Ross song 16. Summer 8 to 8.8. I was a 8 to 9. I was a wintertime. Oh, never mind. I'm in my room, boom and drawing L. El Cooge album covers with crayolas on construction paper. I'm trying to

fuck my neighbor. I'm trying to hook my waves up. I'm trying to pull my grades up to get them saddle lace ups. Before Lamar was Jacob. Before them girls wore makeup. Before my voice would break up. Before we tour them shake clubs. You don't like this song, Charles? Really? This song's great. I don't, I don't like this song. Even though the verse is good.

This is why I couldn't pick it, but I like the verse. I like this song as an Andre pick, not only because it's a great verse, it just goes on and on forever. And for like anybody who hasn't, anybody who's listening for the first time, the chorus is, when 16 ain't enough. It's Andre is saying like, when 16 ain't enough. When 16 ain't enough. It's it's just basically the idea that 16 bars aren't enough to get your point across 16 bars being the standard length of a rap verse yes so Andre writes that hook I think it's like the most Andre idea ever like I'm going to rap but like the confines of rap normal rap do not

suit my needs so I'm going to bend everything to this it's a great verse that feels like kind of a quintessential Andre verse where it's kind of going back into his youth and like unpacking some, unpacking some things, but projecting forward and there's some like a lot of great lines. The other thing, the other thing I really love about this song, we get a truly terrible Andre 3,000 guitar solo at the end of the song. And it is charmingly awful. It is like, Kev, Like, I know you just played a clip of the song. You have to play another clip right now of the guitar solo. It's just like, wana, wana, wana, wana, wana, wana, wana, wana.

Break it down for my Andre. I love, I love that everybody that was in Andre's orbit, like, man, this guy can play guitar. Like, B-O-B, Charles, you strike me as somebody who was probably into B-O-B back in the day. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was never into B-O-B-O-B. I like some B-O-B songs, but don't, like, here's the thing. Charles Hamilton and B-O-B was where I kind of had to, like, draw the line. But he literally put Andre on a song called, what is it, play the guitar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone was just, like, you know, Wayne does, goes in his rock era, he gets Andre on stuff. Everyone just loved the idea of Andre being like this, like, this, like, rock-adjacent guy. He could play the guitar a little, and he was so not good at it. Well, because he was in that Jimmy Hendrix movie, and I think people let it get to their heads a little bit. It's fine. I think it's so cool that he did it. And I think it's even cooler that it was so bad. And that Rick Ross was like, yeah, let's just let's just. Yeah. It's Andre. This song is a great verse and it's really charming. And the chorus is awful. And I always, and I love Rick Ross. I can't wait for the last song standing season on Rick Ross. Same. Charles, we might have to hop on the phone tonight and just do that later.

But I just, I skip, whenever I put the song on, and I do listen to the song with some regularity, I just skip straight to the Andre part. And that's like, it's a long song. So that's like, actually no real shots at Rick. But like, I just, not only is it a great verse, it just feels like a quintessential Andre song to me. Yeah, it's, the only thing I'll say is like when you listen to it, just the, just the, I mean, I think I can. It's either 49 or 50 bars, so it's just a massive verse. But there's a certain craftsmanship that's required to craft a verse that long and keep our interest. And so just listen to all the

different flows, the different refrains, the different pockets. Like, it's a masterclass and just cadence and flow. You know, even like towards the beginning of the verse where he does the four before, before, before, he finds that pocket. And then he goes into that just a roof or a port. And he goes, or a Porsche or a horse on Forch and it like does that. Eminem for you, by the way. But he, I don't know. It works for me much, much better. Because when Andre does it, he does not, it's not like he's doing it, hoping that you

like pat him on the back where when Eminem does it, he delivers it with like, I'm the greatest rapper, right? And I'm just like, okay. That's a great point because that somewhere in this episode I wanted to say, and I just, I don't, I don't know if I just don't have the intelligence to articulate this point the way that I want to. But there is something about Andre's flow. that ever like so many times especially on a song like this i just think of a trumpet or a saxophone

solo maybe a solo or flute solo um that there is a and it speaks to this point about comparing this kind of technical proficiency with an m&m who it feels a little bit gross and contrived versus andre where it doesn't feel like he goes into the verse thinking i'm going to wow you with this technical fireworks display. It comes from a seed organically grows over, like it just feels way more natural and organic like he didn't sit down with the intention. It's just this is what happened in the flow of my writing this verse. In the same way, a saxophone soloist is going to start maybe with an idea playing on a riff of the melody, main melody of the song. And then where it goes from there, who knows, but if you're a good enough player with enough experience, with enough

technical efficiency, you're going to make something beautiful. And that's what I think about with Andre, especially on a long verse like this, where he's giving you that. But again, yeah, it doesn't feel gross. It feels so organic and smooth and natural. I don't know if I articulated that greatly, but that's, no, you did. And I think, to your point, I think that what, why it works for someone like in Andre is because he does have that almost like never ending flow where it's like I feel like as hip hop has progressed and it's become like it definitely during the Ash and I era became very punchline-esque people deliver a punchline and it's almost like they pause like a comedian like look at how clever I am and Andre rarely really does that he's just like he's just that's why it's

hard to wrap his verses because he's like he's dropping punchlines but he's never calling attention to it which is why I love his rapping when a lot of his older peers I'm like all right man Jared take your geriatric ass to the fuck on the time. Look if nothing else Charles this verse and this song brought out this discussion. Hell yeah so Justin you pick 16 Cole I feel like it's pretty obvious which ones we're going to go with I'm picking international players anthem for the fans. I just think it is. Like if it's, it's not my favorite Andre verse, but I would, it would be, we wouldn't be doing our jobs if at least one of us wasn't like, this is probably to most people outside of the outcast music. This is probably one of their

favorite things Andre's ever done. Yeah, I'm going to go with Life of the Party, of course, for obvious reasons, everything we talked about before. So lock it in. All right. So guys, longer episode. If you guys, uh, forgot. love below. Cole, you picked roses. I picked Hayah for our features. You pick Life of the Party. I picked International Players Anthem.

Justin came in with 16. Now, Cole, why don't you take us out? Thank all the people who make this show possible. Yeah, thank you to Kevin Pooler, of course, as always. Justin Sales, of course. And theme music by bureaucratic next week. You want to reveal what we're doing next week? Next week, speakerbox, big boy.

giving the overshadowed, but backbone, spine of outcast, some love. Beautiful. Right, we're back. Cole, take us there. This is our favorite part of the podcast. This is where our friendship grows. Yeah, fan favorite part of the podcast. This is where we do our cultural exchange.

We give each other assignments so that our friendship blossoms. Last week, I gave you an album close to my heart that I hadn't revisited until this exercise, really, and I'm curious to know your thoughts on it. I gave you Jimmy 8 World, the album, Clarity, very pivotal album in my creative development. You gave me your Forever Band in Fall Out Boy from Under the Cork Tree, which I was not very familiar with. Do you want me to go first on Fall Out Boy? Oh, yeah, man.

Here's the thing. Tell the audience just how amazed you were at one of the greatest rockies. Okay, just some backstory. You know, people, if you're listening to this, you know that I started this thing. with Blink 182. And I'll just say from my thoughts on Fall Out Boy historically I've been, I like Blink 182 when I was younger. And then once I started getting to At the Drive-in,

these other projects that I've been giving you, I kind of shunned Pop Punk and I thought I was above it. So when Fall Out Boy came out, I was just a big hater. I hated the singles. I didn't like Pete Wentz. I didn't like his face. I didn't like the singer. but I went into this exercise with a more mature mind.

I cleans the palate. I wiped the slate clean and I wanted to give it a fair shot. Before I reveal my emotions, my thoughts, do you think I'm going to like this or do you think I'm going to shit on it? There's no way you could hate it. There's literally no way. That's how good this album is. There's no way.

I surprise me. No, I'm not going to surprise you because I did like it. It was just like, hell yeah, I knew it. People are always saying on Fallout Boy, but it only takes one. It only takes fucking one. It was, yeah, I mean, there's a, there's a catchyness. There's a, uh, songwriting ability that you just really cannot deny.

If I'm going to say, I'm like, here's, here's the difference is like, I have the nostalgic, nostalgic kind of, uh, emotional resonance. When I hear blink, I, I get rushed with more than the music. And I, that to me is missing on Fallout Boy, because I just didn't grow up with it like that. But understand. how I feel about blink and how you probably feel about Fall Out Boy, I was like, I get it. This is exactly what I felt

about blink. They're on Blinks level. I don't know if I put them on top of Blink, simply for the drums alone, probably. But songwriting, I mean, pretty incredible stuff. There's a lot of dynamic. I enjoyed the unpredictability of their arrangements, how the guitar part's kind of like,

the rhythm off the wall. It's not just straight strum guitar. There's a lot of rhythmic changes and stuff that make the song's interesting. The first half of the album is pretty bulletproof in terms of like it's just, like, I don't know what the hits are on this thing, but it's like it felt like hit after hit after hit. Maybe tapered off a little bit towards the end,

but I can see why, is this like considered a classic to you? This is considered a classic. It was hit. Like the first half, the album is the stronger half. It is, even at that time, it was like hit after hit after hit. And I do think to what you're saying about like blink and follow up. I do think that there are certain bands.

when you're growing up that the cornyness or the sincerity is kind of the point. This was like MTV music. Not to not to belittle the music or like it was just like these are even with Blink 82 a little bit before my time in terms of like I wasn't listening to the CDs. But I watched TRL. Like I like I know all of their songs. And I think Fall-Up Boy obviously was just the next phase of very, very mainstream, accessible high school rock.

Exactly. And I just let's go back and people are like, Fall Boy sucks. I'm just like, yeah, man, you just have to be the age. I don't know what to date. There's just some artists where you're just like,

you just have to be there, man. I don't know. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I couldn't come here or shitting on them and me cherishing Blink 182. That would be totally unfair of me.

So you gave me Jimmy Eat World's clarity and I just have to ask you a question. Okay. I feel like I don't know if this is their popular album. It's not. But I feel like you started me off on the advanced scores. And I was just like, there were things about this album that I liked. But I was just like, I feel like you, you went too fast.

I'm like, I feel like you could have given me a better introduction into Jimmy E. world. I'm not going to lie. This one, this was a tough list. I would have gave, really? Okay. So that's interesting. Because if I wanted you, the entry point would have been Bleed American, which is the next record.

This one was when I believe, I'm remembering the story right. This is when they got signed to a major label, and they just did the artsy thing and made a bunch of, like, creative, emo, punk, pop, like songs with experimentation, drum loops and weird sounds. And there's a 16-minute song that closes out the album. Just went totally experimental with it. And then it feels like they had a conversation with the label,

and then they become much more accessible with the next album. But I gave you this one because, at least in my mind, it's like the classic Jimmy Eat World album for, like, if Justin was a hip hop head, this album is for like, I don't even know, I wouldn't call it. It's definitely not emo,

but indie rock, if you're like an indie rock head, this is like the classic Jimmy 8 World album. Because there is so much. Really? Yeah, there's so much experimentation, but you still get the emotional punch of,

of his lyricism and his melodies. Yeah, and this is why I selected this one for you is because there is so much experimentation. And at this time in my life, I kind of graduated beyond the blink one 8, twos of the world and I was getting more interested in the

creative aspects, the experimentation, the technical stuff. There's a lot of that. To your point, it's maybe not the most accessible, but that was kind of the point to me where I was growing as an artist and trying to do something that wasn't just three chords. But you know on basic, you gave me Blink 182 and I'm just like, oh yeah, let's go. This is what I need. And then you went for clarity and I was like, I was like, damn, where do bobs?

Where the hits? There's not really hits on this thing. I was like, I was trying to groove. I was like, all right, we played Jimmy E. Well, in the apartment. And I was just like, hey, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if there's any James.

That's fair. That's fair. I'm still, here's the thing. I'm still listening to Blink 1282. Like, I was in my cramp. I was just like, I'm still listening to the album you told me to listen to. So it wasn't that this was an unsuccessful one. I just feel like you think that I'm more of an advanced listener that I probably have.

Okay. That's fair. All right. Well, you're going to have fun with this next pick did. Oh, no. Oh God, what's this one? To the same point of finding these bands that were still not like mainstream in terms of indie, definitely not mainstream mainstream, but bigger indie bands that experimented that are known. This one is definitely more well known in terms of it, highly influential album that a lot of people have just never heard.

I'm going to give you refused the shape of punk to come. This is a, do you know this band at all? No. Justin, do you familiar? Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. We're just totally, as we do this, we're just going through the greatest hits of all my ex-girlfriends.

Oh, man. We got Blink 182. We got Fallout Boy. We got at the drive-in. We got Jimmy World. And now we've landed at Refused. She was trouble. Oh, me.

So Refused as a Swedish band, heart out. I guess they're called like, I guess they would categorize. I'm not good with these categories, but post-punk hardcore, I guess you would describe it as. I'd say post-hardcore is, which is the most like bullshit made-up term ever.

Yeah, I'd never understand these labels, but it's, you'll hear the hard, it's, I don't traditionally like screaming music, but the singer does scream mostly, more melodically, I'd say than most, but he does scream. But the, the musicianship on this thing is great.

It was a statement at the time. There's like, this is 1997 or 98, a lot, a lot of electronic elements with these really hardcore guitars. The drumming is phenomenal up there with Travis Barker. There's just, there's, it has elements of jazz. It's a roller coaster this thing. I'm so curious to hear your thoughts because if Jimmy World was a little too far-fetched, I'm a little bit afraid of your thoughts on this one.

but it's exceptional music and I listened to it this morning You said they were screaming You know how many white I don't met many of my white homies are like yo listen to this band It's just some screamo shit And I'm like

So the scream I'm, y'all I can't get shoo I was never screamo This is as much screaming as I can pal This and at the drive-in is my limit on screaming So if I can You'll see it's melodic It's still melodic

All right if you can convert me I'm gonna give it the old college try You know what I'm saying I'm gonna give it the old college try you got for me. I'm also going to give you, like, I think this, this band is kind of foundational to the history of rock music, obviously very indie, never really crossed over, but was really, really important to my development as, as a punchline coming. I'm giving you panic at the discos.

It's not just. Wait, no, no, it's a fever I can't sweat out. That's the album. We're doing a fever. You can't sweat out. Panic at the disc. go. Let's fucking go. We're giving you that classic fucking music. Is it? Okay. Everybody in the audience is like, what is wrong? I always just, I just grouped panic this band with Fallout Boy. Like, I'm going to see it. No, you can't. You can't. No, this is a, here's a thing. This, you throw some of these songs on at karaoke. You're, you're burning down the fucking house. Oh, really? Okay. That's all I'm going to say. Okay. All right. All right, guys, that has been our culture.

Exchange, thank you so much for tuning in. We will be back more to argue about music, why we love it, and to get to the speaker box and the love below. Thanks, y'all. Peace.