Dissect - Baro Sura on Making 'Hand Me Downs' with Mac Miller (BONUS)

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

Australian artist Baro Sura joins the show to talk about meeting Mac Miller for the first time and making the song “Hand Me Downs” with him just 72 hours later. Follow Baro on Instagram. Listen to his music here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yeah, we kept hanging the whole weekend and we just kept playing this song and I couldn't like, I didn't really realize how great the song was or how beautiful and how just like, how layered the song was. I was just kind of just awestruck about what happened and how like I kept my cool and everything and how I'm here with like my favorite artist. And yeah, man, like just the whole weekend Mac just kept playing there and he was like, man, like we did something really special. We did something really special.

On today's special episode of Dysect, I sit down with Australian musician Barrow Surah, the guest vocalist on MacMiller's Hand Me Downs, a song which he also co-wrote and plays drums on. Barrow is an extremely talented artist whose 2017 self-produced project, just problems you need to know, is definitely worth your time and attention. Today, Barrow tells us his story of meeting his hero MacMiller for the first time, and then recording a song with him less than 72 hours later. I don't want to spoil anything, but I think you're going to find his story pretty amazing. You can find links to Barrow's music and socials in the description of this episode.

I hope you enjoy our conversation. Welcome everyone to a special episode of Dysect. I'm your host, Kolkushna, and today I have the pleasure of being joined by Baro Sera, who's coming to us all the way from Australia. So, man, thanks for doing this. What's up? Thanks for having you, man. What's going on?

I'm just really excited to get to talk to you. As the only guest feature on Max Final Project, this is definitely an honor to be talking to you. Thank you, man. Yeah, let's get right into it. So I guess my first question is this like, where did this start, you know, this relationship between you and Mac and how this song, you know, ultimately came to be? Like, where did that? How did you guys first, like, link up? So we first linked up, like, so I was listening to Mac since I was 14 in year 9.

I remember when my friend put me on to Kool-Aid and Frozen Pizza. And ever since then, I was just like every release I'd be. be on it and I'd just be listening and, you know, watching movies came out and then he just became like, you know, I'd look at everything and like I could see the nuance of that whole album and just how much it meant to me at the time it came out. It was a lot like he missed so much. And yeah, like over the years, I was just like, just an avid, like fan and listener of everything and hit release. And one year, I saw him play when I was at, when I was like just freshly 18, I saw and play a festival out here. And I was like, man, that shit really inspired me. And like my

whole life, I was just like, man, one day I want to, I want to like make music with Mac. I want to like link with Mac and just like, I don't know, it felt it felt like he was, you know, really someone who understood and like I could understand and it was just this connection I felt like before I you know really like knew him personally or anything and so fast forward to um 2017 um he came out here uh for um for his uh for the listen out to her and one of my friends his homies with Mac. He said, come through to the show. And I was going through something at the time.

And I was like, man, like, I don't know if I can. I don't know if I'm really in the headspace to be there as much as I wanted to be there. And he was like, man, like, just come out. Just come out. Like, you're going to come out. I was like, hi, for sure. I came out. And I was in my pajamas, basically.

And I rocked up. And we watched him play and everything. And my homie's like, oh, come, come through it. And meet Malcolm. him and I was like man like I was hell of nervous and shit and so he took me he took me to like the area where everyone was after the show and I just stood in the corner I sat in the corner with my homie and and my friend who introduced me Garrett he he was like he's like yo come say hello and like introduced me to Mac and like we chopped it up and we spoke and we were just having

discussions in the green room where we were at. And then we were like, oh, let's keep hanging out. Let's go somewhere else. And we went to this bar in the city close to where he played. And we just sat down and hung out, like, to a real late and just like talk to just literally, oh, well, my friend and Matt, like our mutual friend were talking. I was sitting in between them just listening. And I was kind of just like, damn, like I'm really here right now.

Speaking of Mac and one of my homies, like, one of my homies, like, on my like another homie, like a close homie, was like, yo, Mac, you should listen to Barrow's music. And I don't know how, he had one of my CDs. And he gave, and I was like, he was like, my friend was looking me the whole time. He's like, yo, I'm going to give me a CD. I was like, don't do that. Don't do that.

It's weird. Like, I'm going to do it. He's like, do it yourself. And I was like, nah, nah, nah, no. And he's like, yo, like just out of nowhere, it was just like, yo, you should listen to Barrows music and gave him the CD. And then it's like, oh shit, like, Max, like, yeah, like, hell yeah, I'm going to listen to this later. And, and so...

Was this one of your projects? Like a release project? Okay, which one? Yeah, just problems you need to know. Okay, yeah. So, and then, like, yeah, we kept talking and after that. And I was like, I was just like, yo, Mac, like, you're playing in Sydney tomorrow. Like, it'd be sick if you let me, you know, open the stage.

Open the stage for you. And he's like, yeah, for sure. like I'm a I'm a figure it out and he spoke to his tool manager or the woman that was there was like oh um could we saw that out she's like yeah yeah it's like I'll let you know and then so like we all went home and the next morning he texted our mutual friend and was like um you'll uh come come through to Sydney we got it um we got on luck like you could come through and perform and then so he hit me up and I had like what I had like 300 in my account I couldn't really afford to fly. I hit my dad up and I was like, yo, could you, could you borrow me like $200? It's like, yeah, for sure.

And so I went to Sydney and we played the show. Now, after the show, we watched Mac play. And then after he was like, he came up to me right after he played. And he was like, yo, come, come down. He was like, oh, yo, do you like that show? And I was like, hell yeah, it's like, no, not, tell me for real. Like, did you like that show? And I was like, no, I loved it. I was watching from the back door. I couldn't really see the crowd, but I loved the show. It's like, sick. He's like, come down with me. And we sat down.

And he was like, yo, that song, he listened to like a video that I had on my Twitter. He's like, oh, that song, that's on your Twitter that's pinned on your Twitter. That's just tight. I was like, oh, man, thank you. And he was like, what are you doing tomorrow? And I was first to be flying out the next day. And I was like, shit, I was first to be flying out. But he was like, yeah, we're going to like come through this.

We'll go to the studio and hang out. And I was like, all right, for sure, I'm going to figure it out. It's like, sweet. And so we hung out the whole night. And then the next day, I work up at my Airbnb and I was meant to be checking out. So I went to check down and I got a message from him saying, you know, like come link at my hotel. We're going to go golfing. And I was like, damn, I'm about to go golfing with MacMilla.

And so we all went golfing. and had a fun as the AMEQ, Garrett and Mac Miller and Mac's bodyguard. And we spent the whole day there, and then we went to the studio to make hand-me-downs. And I remember as soon as we got into there, I went straight into the booth, and so did Mac, and I went and sat on the keys,

on the piano, on the ballad piano, and Mac went on the drums, and we'll just jamming for like 10, 15 minutes. And then he was like, all right, tight. And then he got, he stood up and then went to like the main control room. And I was like kind of sitting in the booth for a while. And he just like, he made a beat like really quick, kind of like a warm up kind of beat. And like there was like a roads in there and like an organ and stuff. And he just made this beat like super quick. And I was like, Dan. And so I was back in there when he made the beat and I just went back into

the booth just to sit down, jam on the drums. Because I just started playing drums too. I wasn't really like, like I was just trying to get my groove and I was sitting down playing the drums and Mac was listening and I was like, yo, keep that, keep that going right there and like kept it going and it was kind of like the pocket was like not there. It was like kind of out of pocket but like he was like, nah, no, no, keep it going. I was like, nah, I'm not sure about it. I'm sure about it. It's like, nah, keep it going, keep it going. And Garrett was playing like a little riff on the guitar over the drums. No, they left for a bit and I got this. groove right and we kept we put it in and then the engineer like fixed it up and everything

Garrett came back and he was just playing this riff on the guitar and um mac was like play it like this like do this do this and then um and then he just put everything else like around the song like the keys and the bass and just kind of just filled it out and we're just all sitting in the we ate ramen and we're all sitting in the um in the control room kind of thing and and we're just writing. And I was sitting there writing, and Mac was writing too, and he came up to me. And then he was like, are you writing right now? And I was like, yeah.

And he's like, what are you writing? I was like kind of like a verse kind of thing. He's like, get the hook, get the hook. I was like, all, for sure. And so I just wrote like that hook that I wrote was like initially meant for like a verse. And I was like, nah, this is kind of cool. So like I kept it as the hook and kind of made it. like a hook kind of thing.

Okay, so what we hear on the track now, that is the hook, that was what you're writing, but then you kind of adapted it to sound more hooky after you requested that? Yeah. Yeah, kind of made it like more round, if that makes sense. Right, yeah. Instead of just like a, you know. And Mac was like, we both had our verses, our parts finished. And I remember Mac was like, oh, he came off to me.

He was like, yo, like, what do you got? Come, like, sing it to me. after he recorded his verse, the first verse. And I was like, hell, a nervous, man. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. And then so I started singing my part to him, but I was like, hell, quiet. And I wasn't really hitting it at all.

And I was like, yo, yeah, just let me go in. I'll just go try and record it. And so I started recording it. And usually it takes me like a few takes to be like comfortable and like to kind to get into the pocket and like, you know, getting tuned with everything. And I did my third take and Mac was like, yo, that's it. And I was like, no, no, no, let me get it again. It's like, no, man, that's it.

That's it. That's the one. I was like, all right, for sure. And he was like, he's like, oh, the part like off to the chorus when I'm singing down, down. He was like, you should do this at the end of that. And I did that. I was just like kind of just like doing kind of what he told me to do.

and then we just added the layers and everything and I just sat like stood up and just sat out and then we were just listening listening to the song over and over initially we just had the first max first verse and the chorus in that song that's what we made in Sydney and we'll just listen to it over over over and like I was like damn like I was kind of like just like all struck by like what was happening. Like I was just like literally like my dream and how naturally, how natural it felt kind of. It wasn't like,

because like you kind of think as a musician if you were in the studio with your favorite artists like would you buckle or would you like, you know, but everything just felt so natural. Like I was making music with my home. So like I was making music with people. I'm really comfortable with. And yeah, man,

it just felt hell and natural. and it didn't feel I wasn't, I was nervous, but it didn't feel like that was kind of pushing me back or anything like that. It just, you know. It sounds like, so all this happens, I got this straight, like everything you just described from meeting Mac to go into his concert to then opening for him to then recording a song with him. Is that happening in like, what, 72 hours? Yeah, no weekend. It was all one weekend. And then, yeah, man.

And then after that, we kept hanging the whole weekend. And we just, he kept playing this song. And I couldn't like, I didn't really realize what, how great the song was or how beautiful and how just like, how layered the song was. I was just kind of just all struck about what happened and how like I kept my cool and everything. And how I'm here with like my favorite artists. and yeah man like just the whole weekend mac just kept playing and he was like man like we did something really special we did something really special was it sorry was it um so a couple's well let's let's back up a little bit because i want i do want to talk to you about the drum loop because i have a question about

the way that so there's a drum loop in the beginning the very beginning uh and then there's a secondary drum track that comes in and kind of layers over it it's like and it seems like and it seems like it's more, it's recorded a little bit stronger, maybe, or mixed it a little bit differently. So is the one that you play, because you do have a drum credit on the song, are you playing on that intro? The first one, yeah. And John Bryan came through and just filled that out. But I'm that real, like, kind of choppy, like that one second at the start. But in the demo, it's all that.

And that's what I was, like, kind of used to. And then when I heard the final version, it was like, damn, man, it was John Bryan. I was going to say, man, like, that's a, he's a legend, a living legend. So to be on a track with him is incredible as well. Yeah. So, yeah, so you go from the drumbeat to like, you know, jamming out on it. And then so I guess I'm curious about how the theme of the song came together. Because what Mack is saying in the verses seems to be pairing very well with,

and cohesively with what you are saying in the chorus, but you had said that he laid down the first verse before you laid down the chorus. So was there any conversations about what this song was going to be about? No, not at all. I feel like with music, like that whole day, I remember Max BodyGarb was talking about he was having a child soon, he was expecting a baby. And I feel like with music, like with conversations and stuff you're having with music, before you go into the studio and stuff,

they kind of just come out subconsciously. And I wasn't really thinking about any of that. With the chorus, there was like a couple words that Mac tweaked. I remember the remind me part was originally Provide. So I say you provide and I said things, I need to stay in line. But Mac was like, yo, not change that to you. remind me shit, I need to stay in line.

And I was like, okay, what? So, yeah, we didn't really think to talk about, like, what the song was about, anything like that. It was just literally, as I said, it was organic. We didn't plan anything out or nothing like that, man. Yeah, that's wild. I mean, so, I mean, I always, you know, when you're hearing stories about Mac and how he was with people, and especially, it seems like, you know, people he just meets.

There's this kind of sense of, like, warmth and kind of welcoming energy. that he has. It sounds like that was your experience with him as well. Am I getting that right? 100%. 100%. I felt welcome the whole time. I didn't feel like out of place. He would just like, you know, he'd be talking to me. He'd be looking at me while he's talking to other people. And like, even my other homies that were there, he was including everyone. And even after the show, he, like, told all my homies that were there, like, yo, thanks for coming to the show and everything. So it was like, yeah, I never felt awkward or nothing around him. The only thing was like, you know, I'm with, you know, my hero right now.

And that was in my head. But he made me feel comfortable the whole time. I didn't feel like that. It didn't feel like that. felt regular. It's like, okay, here's this young musician, talented. I like his stuff. And like the happenstance circumstantial kind of coincidence of it all.

And just kind of like, you know, and his music, he's always talking about like letting things happen. And the story that you're laying out seems very appropriate to that kind of mindset of just organically letting things come, exist and create. So it's, I mean, it sounds like a whirlwind of a few memorable days. I'm sure, right? Yeah, man, for sure. I remember he told me, like, the best part about this shit is meeting new connections

and making new connections, which really stuck with me, man. It was like, you know, whoever, whatever level this person is at, or whatever, however great they are at their craft, whether they're a great guitarist or a great singer, or they can write really good songs. Like, the best part is,

just really connecting with someone and, you know, making these special moments that lasts forever. Yeah. That's beautiful. I'm just kind of blown away by this story. It's like I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes and just like all that happening and as fast as it did. I just, it's really, really cool.

I'm curious about your lyrics on the hook. Like, I mean, specifically the line, let's turn these genes into hand-me-downs with the double. I'm assuming that the double meaning of genes with, you know, denim jeans and the genes of genetics, was that just something that, I mean, what was the thought process about that? Or what does that line kind of represent for you?

Man, like, at the time, like, I just wrote it. Like, I mean, it just felt like, you know, when you write a rap or, like, you write any kind of line. But to me, it means just that. that like it's a double, you know, let's, it's exactly what it says. Let's turn these, let's, let's, you know, continue this line, like, the legacy or, you know, like, I guess, like, that's what it really, it is what it. And you said that might have been inspired by just the conversations about family and, like,

you know, the bodyguard coming, having his first child. Yeah, having, having his child, having, having a baby expecting the baby and i guess that was kind of like a subconscious thing right but yeah that's kind of just what it meant it's like i don't know it felt like i didn't really realize um like the layer of it like when i wrote it until like after and after i heard the whole song like when max sent me the um like the demo of the song and how how how it fit and everything but yeah that's just yeah did he did he record all it did you see him record all the parts that we hear on the finished product just the first first okay yeah just the first verse and then um when he

sent me the demo he that he had the second verse on there the rap verse okay yeah so do you know where he recorded that um i'm not too sure maybe at his house um yeah he just like he sent it to me maybe like three weeks or a couple weeks after he was in Melbourne, in Australia, sorry. Did he, so you said this was in 2017? Yeah. So at that point, I mean, publicly, there wasn't really anything like this track. You know, Circles was such a departure from, you know, the Mac that we knew musically. And Hand Me Downs, I would say, is one that's right.

I mean, I guess the second verse does get into more like rap territory in terms of his flow and energy. But still, even that first verse is very singer-songwriter and your chorus is very melodic. And, you know, so I'm wondering, like, when you're hearing Mack lay down that first verse in a way that, I mean, swimming wasn't even out at this time. I guess Divine Feminine showed off his kind of more melodic side, but even Hand-Me-down seems very different from that project. So, I mean, were you kind of, what were your thoughts of hearing that first verse being laid down? I, like, that's what I kind of like, I know how Mac looks at music and how there's no kind of boundaries on it and everything is kind of everything in music. So it wasn't like, I didn't, it wasn't like, oh, Mac's doing something completely different or nothing like that. It was like, you know, Max's in his bag right now.

And this is great. And like with my with my part, I was I was just trying to at the time I was trying to emulate Slice Stone and it didn't really come out like that. But yeah, like it was like, yeah, I didn't really. It wasn't something that was kind of like, you know, different or anything I didn't expect from Mac. It was just like, yo, you know, it was it was what I've expected. Like, I've always expected Mac to come through with, like, a singer-songwriter album or something. Like, I've been waiting for that, you know? Right.

And to go all the way, you know, like how we did with circles. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about, I guess, how, so you hear, you know, you guys record, you know, hook and verse in Australia. And then you get a, you know, the demo version a few weeks. later, is that it for the song until you hear it, ultimately on circles? Yeah. Okay.

That was that was it. I didn't know it was going to be on circles until like maybe a few months before they released circles. And I still was like kind of unsure. And one of my Hermes who works at a publication out here got invited to the listening party before they released it. And he hit me after and was like, yo, bro, like, you're on the album.

Wow, that's crazy. What? I drifted out. I was like, what, it's crazy? And it's like, man, I was like, are you sure? Like, are you sure this me? And he was like, yeah, man, you're on the album. Like, that shit was beautiful.

Like, I cried and shit. I was like, man, like, yeah, that's how that's how I really found out I was on there. Like, we kind of like spoke, we kind of like, I kind of knew. through like, you know, like people that, like, Mac introduced me to and, like, his engineer and stuff.

But it was like, you know, things with music, like, things like, you know, kind of fall through and, like, don't happen and shit like that. So I was just like, you know. But then when my friend hit me saying, like, you know, he went to the listening party, that's when I knew, I was like, damn, like, that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, I mean, to have the only feature. I'm sure that also feels kind of wild, right? Yeah, I mean, I mean, like, the fact that it happened, like even if it wasn't on circles, like the fact that that exists, like, is like, you know,

like it's something else to me. It means the same thing, like, you know, it's like that that song is still like, you know, in the universe and I can listen to it. And, you know, I have that, I have that memory. And, yeah, man, it's surreal. It's something else to me, bro. Did you guys stay in touch after that session?

Yeah, man. Yeah, we're talking often. And, like, we were planning to do an album. Like, he was planning to release one of my albums. And he was, like, we were trying to organize, you know, for me to come out and, like, finish, do a record together who's sending beats and stuff and, you know, just

it never really could happen because like conflicting schedules and stuff. But yeah, we're in touch and we were talking about he would always hear me like raving about, I hear me downs and like he told me about swimming when it came out I don't know when it came out when he

figured out the name of swimming and like he'd send me like you know you know like songs of swimming and stuff asking me what I thought and stuff. So it was like real cool. We kept in touch for sure. Yeah. wondering, I mean, do you get a sense of why maybe the relationship was so quick to kind of get established? And, you know, I'm assuming Mac had met a lot of people all the time. But it seems like you guys developed a pretty, he's sending you songs and

trusting you with that kind of thing. Like, you have any sense of why, maybe you guys really hit it off. Was there any conversations that you had that stick out that, you know, that kind of like bonding you guys together or anything or shared experiences? I don't know, man. Other than this song, like, where I was pretty quiet and, like,

kind of like starstruck that whole weekend. Like, I mean, we had a lot of fun. We went golfing and, like, bowling. And, like, but I don't know, it felt, it felt right the whole time. It didn't feel like, Yeah, I don't know. Like, yeah, I was, yeah, I don't know. I don't really know. Right. But it just, like, we, yeah. Yeah. And it's, I was just still blown away by that initial, the initial story.

It's just, especially how you're such a big fan going into it. Man, it's just wild. It's beautiful. Just the way that it all happened so organically. Because in my mind, as I'm kind of now six months in, we're almost a year into, like, creating this season and you know you you kind of get a sense of where someone's heads at when you're kind of so deeply into their music and it just seems so you know perfect to what he was expressing in his music and his worldview uh to kind of like I said earlier just seems like on especially on circles there's this like uh I wouldn't call it a resignation but maybe just like an acceptance of like a very like zen approach to life in terms of just letting taking things as they

come, letting things develop as organically. And just to hear this story and how this song comes to be and how how organic it seemed that process is. It's just like it's really cool to hear. It's in line with everything. Yeah, it's perfect. It's like a perfectly lived experience that he kind of espoused in his music and like for someone like me that's always curious like does the does the man match the music in real life

you know and it's like it seems like every account I read and hear from you it's like exactly that like he was exactly yeah did he um because I know in the in the book of Mac by Donna Claire Chesman I'm not sure if you've

you've read that but there's like first-hand accounts from you know, Max close collaborators and friends. And Vic Weinstein had said, you know, Hand Me Downs was a song that was specifically crafted for the Circles album. I'm not sure if it was titled Circles at that point, but he had said that it was one of the few that he consciously made with this secondary project to swimming in mind.

Did you guys have any conversations about circles? Not about circles. We had conversations. I thought swimming was circles initially. Okay. I heard about the double album. And Mack told me about the double album. And I thought, you know, it was all going to be one thing.

And I knew Hammy Downs was a part of that at the time. Like, he told me, do you know, like, yeah, he told me definitely how much he loved that song and how special that song was to him. Yeah. But I didn't really know it was especially made. Like that's news to me. I'm yet to read, I'm done this book. But yeah, like, that's crazy to hear that, actually. Yeah.

Yeah, I think, yeah, somewhere in the process, according to the information that's in that book, you know, just he had some of these songs that were more melodic singer-songwriter, and there was a, you know, a decision made after trying to fit those kind of songs, into the swimming project to split the album. But even Hugh hearing saying that he was already conceptualizing the double album, seems to fall right in line with that account, that he was consciously building that secondary world that was going to be a part

from swimming, but attached to it. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, even that's pretty special to be, you know, you know, part of that conscious effort, be a part of that. That's pretty incredible. Is there a... Oh, go ahead, sorry. No, getting them demos and just like being a part of the process and hearing like,

you know, like when, I guess when he figured that he was going to name his album Swimming, he's like, yo, I got the name of my album Swimming and just like, and it's like your songs are first, your song like your songs on there. And also like after I release this album, you know, I want to do a record with you. I want to do an album with you and put that out after. we do after we do this and everything and just being a part of that whole process and kind of hearing about it and just hearing these songs like like these demos and stuff was like yeah something else man is there a line in hand-me-downs you know one of his verses uh in either verse i mean that that's especially

relevant or meaningful to you yeah when i'm stuck in a rock when i'm stuck between a rock in a hard place, dropping change inside your empty guitar case. That's charity. I remember when he sent me that. I was like, I quoted that and I was like, man, that shit hit me somewhere else, bro. Yeah, just stuck, being stuck in a place when everywhere around you is just, it's like dark and it's like not really, um, nowhere is better than the other place. and, you know, finding someone you can kind of, you know, give your two cents to and somebody you can sort of open up to and tell them how you feel, like, just how that feels

and how that, that's like the best, like, that's a place you can go to and that's the best place. You can sort of be at it and, you know, like sort of finding solace and comfort in a human being yeah, when you're stuck in like, you know,

really hard, hard times like in the outside world is so tough and just how important how important an individual can be and how important some, like, you know, the people you love can be and how they can, you know, kind of pull you away from these really

tough, like, places, you know, and sort of just, like, remembering that and sort of, like, moving, moving in life with that perspective and just, like, how kind of valuing people. Because, like, you know, when the whole world is burning, like, you know, the people you love is like they're gonna like you know like um kind of distract you from that and make you feel safe that's what that's what that line means to me if i was to like really you know go deep which i never really have until now um and thanks for kind of like you know making me sort of think of that critically yeah that's uh that's beautiful i mean the whole song i think you touched on at least my interpretation of the song where I mean even your story just now reminded me of track one of

circles which where he says you know you sip your whiskey I said my wine or I said my whiskey you sit my wine we'll sit back and watch the world falling down its decline and like just that sense of comfort where everything around is chaos but this intimate space that we share physically and mentally and everything allows you to kind of be at peace with that that's that and yeah i mean that and that how that relates to hand me downs and you know my interpretation of the song so far before talking to you was like it seemed like you guys were both thinking of someone that elevates you that that's that you want to be your best version for um and just and just the power and so much of circles is this and just you know

the power of community and connection and, you know, real intimacy between two human beings or more, you know, even more than that, just this, this kind of universal community and kind of all being here for each other. He says that on surf, we are all we need. And, you know, there's water and the flowers that's grow. And like, my interpretation, it's like, we are the water. We are each other, we are the water, we are what helps each other grow. So that's a beautiful sentiment that you just laid out. And let's talk about kind of what you got going on musically right now. Are you working on any new projects?

You've been kind of dropping some singles here and there over the past couple of years, but are you working on like an EP or an album? Yeah, I'm working on a record with my home, Silent Jay, who's done most of the beats, all the old beats and production. on there. And like we're kind of just been like making a lot of different projects in the past, you know, a couple of years and kind of just been like, no, this ain't it, the same, it.

And now we're finally like figured it out. And it's basically the first one we're working on. And yeah, we're just, you know, I didn't have final touches on there and plan to put it out really soon. It's called Lucy's. And it's like, yeah, it goes, it goes everywhere. I can't really, like, put it on. I can't really say it's like specifically this or that, but it's pretty free.

I haven't really ever felt free on one of my own projects like that before. So, yeah, that's why I'm working on right now. Hopefully that's out really, really soon. I can't wait anymore for that. Nice. Well, I'm excited to hear it. Where's the best place people can kind of follow you and follow the release? Instagram or Twitter.

I'm not really great at, like, you know, social media. But yeah, you could definitely, I'll definitely use it there. And you'll see, like, usually sometimes I'll put some random little things on SoundCloud. I know people don't use SoundCloud and mobile. I just, you know, put some random little things on SoundCloud or like Tumblr or something, little Easter eggs and shit. But, yeah, you could just, you can find that way. whatever um but usually i'll put like i'll you'll see everything on my instagram on my twitter so if you want

if you want to um if you want to follow me like or if you want to follow what i'm doing and that's where you don't find me yeah yeah i'll drop a link in the the description of this episode too so they can just click over um well sick man i really appreciate you um sharing that story is beautiful and and sharing your insight into the song um and thanks for coming on and uh thank you for me there Thank you.