Dissect - CHROMAKOPIA is here (and it's really good)

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Cole and Cam share their first impressions of Tyler The Creator's CHROMAKOPIA. They discuss the album's themes and sound, share their favorite moments and features, and attempt to dissect the meaning of the project's title and concept. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome everyone to a special episode of Dysect. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. Today we are doing a first impressions episode on Tyler the Creator's new album, Chromacopia. His eighth studio album, technically, he counts the Christmas album. It was released two days ago on Monday, October 28th. We are recording this on Wednesday, October 30th, just about two days after the album came out. I am joined by longtime friend of the show, Camden Ostrander. we are going to talk about

chromocopia first impressions we are going to talk about our favorite songs, our favorite moments, our favorite features. We're going to try to do some dissecting, some light dissections of some of the themes and symbolism that I got totally wrong

on the rollout pre-episode. But Cam, how are you doing? How have we feeling on this chromocopia week? It is a beautiful week. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Cole. This is the best. We got a beautiful Monday, like, for the first time ever in years. Yeah, I know.

We're going to talk about the Monday rollout experience in a second. Well, actually, let's just talk about it now because what I wanted to start with was our first listening experience. Because obviously, a big deal about this album was that it was released on a Monday morning, not even a Sunday night, midnight release. And I was very interested to see how that was going to work personally, but also. just generally speaking. So walk me through your your first listen, how you listened, and kind of your just first impressions on that first listen. We'll get into more detail about like needy gritty stuff, but just give me your general impressions on the first listen. I mean, first listen for me is Monday commute. Like I had to go to work. It was like almost too

much in the morning. You know what I mean? Like the maximalism of the whole thing, everything going on. I extended my car ride. It's like my normal ride is like not quite long enough. So I extended that so I could get the whole thing in. Very worth it. I almost crashed the car because I like I because I couldn't believe what was happened. We'll get to when that happens. But like it was it was incredible.

Yeah. Oh, I think I. I might. I'm pretty sure you know. Yeah. Okay. We'll get there. How about you?

So I was originally planning on taking a walk. and then my daughter woke up with strep throat. Okay. And so she stayed home sick from school. So I wasn't able to take the solo walk that I was planning on. So I ended up getting up early, like an hour earlier than I usually get up. And I just sat in my living room essentially with the window. It was like the sunrise.

So it had kind of a romantic setting. That's sweet. I just sat there listening with headphones on, taking it all in. Yeah, it was a lot on first listen. By the end of it, I wasn't quite sure. what I felt, which I have I have since learned in my many years of listening to music is usually a good sign. But I feel like I didn't quite get the album on the first listen. Those usually end up being my favorite albums where I'm just like, what was that exactly? I haven't really experienced

anything quite like that. I will say that my expectations of what this album was going to be were not met. I mean, not in a bad or good way. It was just not what I was. expecting given all the rollout elements. If you listen to my pre-release episode, I did a lot of speculation. I was absolutely wrong about pretty much everything. Because I in no way was thinking that this was going to be as introspective and vulnerable and honest as it was, considering the theatrics of the rollout, which felt very big and alive and colorful. And there's a lot of mysterious symbolism, which could apply in a different way than what I was expecting. So, but once I kind of got over with my own, that hurdle that my own, that I put on the

album, right? I was expecting this one thing. And then you have to just kind of let it be what it is and take it for what it is. And so on the second listen, I felt it really started to sink in. I really started to have some like emotional moments with songs like him or even like tomorrow or even like some of Judge Judy, and I was really feeling the album the second time through, where the first, the first listen was a little bit overwhelming and just trying to wrap my hands around it, right? Mm-hmm. For sure.

So, yeah, I guess let's start with just the sound of the album. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on just, let's set aside themes and lyrics for now, but just the sonics of the album, how are you feeling? I mean, this was super cool to me. Like, it felt like he was throwing everything together. sort of like I keep thinking like maximal almost like over stimulating like there's so many things happening so I love like the abundance of it I feel like that's to me that's what the copia copious like all that stuff that's to me what the sound is in the title and it was cool like he's doing a bunch of different things

I was like waiting for the hard song waiting for him to try singing like waiting for it on that first listen and it was great because I feel like he hit everything Sometimes you did it all at once, as far as the sounds cool. I loved it. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Like, there is a, a cohesiveness, not that as past albums haven't had cohesion. They certainly do.

And it's almost, but I guess all the elements of like, Flower Boy, all the past, the recent albums, they all have a distinct identity and they all kind of leaned. Right. Toward one direction. giving us like the classic Tyler sound of course throughout, but it was like, you know, Igor is going to lean a little bit more melodic, but there's still that raw musicality.

Call me if you get lost, it was definitely more hip-hop leaning, but also had elements of dance and kind of that tropical kind of luxury vibe. But I feel like this is as most, in terms of production, his most complete sounding record, where it's not leaning one way or another.

It's just you're getting, all of what he's great at and he really just kind of gave us everything in one album. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the other ones you can see like, okay, he's leading just more in this world where this one I feel like to your point about copious and abundance, he kind of just put it all together where it feels very, very seamless and cohesive and has a kind of distinct vision. But there's no, yeah, it's just not leaning heavily in one direction. I really enjoyed. It feels like it felt just very organic.

It's not like he was trying to reach for a certain sound. It was just kind of him just giving us who he is at as an artist and as a producer right now. You can see a bunch of like the recurring elements from, like if you picked just things out of all the past ones, like his mom's almost DJ drama now. And like there's all these things that he's bringing from all the past work. If you could feel it, which was really nice. Yeah. Which, yeah, to me, has just been so interesting to follow his career just from a musicianship standpoint and just getting to experience him grow as a musician over the last decade where he comes in very raw and very young.

And especially, you know, in a wolf or a cherry bomb where he's really reaching for this sound. And we get to hear him perfect it, especially since Flower Boy, just really polish and polish and polish. And just he's there are some moments on this album where the musicianship is just so outstanding not only in the harmony and the arrangements, but even in his keyboard playing. If he's playing those solos, there are multiple solos that are so impressive on this record. Not it not not not just in it's like the technical proficiency of him just like doing runs like fast fills and runs, which it feels like he's just grown technically as a. as a player, and that's great to hear, but just like him really polishing the musicianship of, just his taste that has always been his strength, and his taste and his skill seemingly working on equal ground, where as I feel like in his past work, the taste always outweighed the skill. And so, I don't know, does that make sense? A little bit, like he is coming into his, like he's singing more himself

like I feel it in that I think I get what you're saying in that if that makes it yeah yeah I probably listening a little bit more as a musician myself and like kind of analyzing just his technical skill level and just being impressed with it getting

better and better and him just getting even we'll talk about a lot of the features but he's just kidding so good at using features I wouldn't even call him features he's using different artists as instruments a Kanye and just like, okay, who would be great?

I need this sound. I need this texture. Who can I bring in to provide that texture? And he's just getting so good at nailing that. So musically, I just was, I've been very, very impressed every single listen. I'm finding new details, maybe more than ever. He's always been a producer that really layers his songs with just a ton of detail and you just hear new things all the time. I'm hearing just the smallest of details

where I'm just like, okay, that sound is only in the song once, but it adds, you know, and who knows how long it takes them to find these little sounds and make them right and mix them in. That's something we talked about with Igor, like all the time, how he had built it that way, but this, like, he just had more time and he just,

yeah, it's a lot. Right, yeah, the time, yeah, that's interesting because this was a three-year album, not a two-year album in terms of release cadence. So he seems like he had an extra year to tinker on it. And it feels like it showed to me. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the themes. We're going to save our, I guess, we'll call it.

Dysection. Is that possible? Yeah. I don't think it's possible at this point. So like I want up front here, I want to just be transparent about, in no way, feel like I've quote unquote figured this album out. I want to talk first about just the broader themes of the album. And then at the end of the episode, we're going to kind of go through element by element and try to break down the title again, break down some of the rollout symbols. So that'll be at the end of the episode. But right now, just tell me about your first impressions about just the subject matter of the album.

I mean, Tyler talking about getting old and being honest about it, I don't know if I was expecting or ready for that. Right. That was like time running out, moving past. but in an actual existential sense and not just this relationship running at a time. Like that was blowing me away and still does. Like that's, it's just overwhelming in that sense as far as the subject.

I think he talked about that a little bit as far as just him getting older. Right? There's the, the concert clip already of him saying like, this is him seeing he has gray, he's getting a gray hair and stuff like that, which really I wasn't like prepared,

as far as expectations go. I wasn't wasn't ready for that one. It's nice to see him talk directly about love in some different ways. And I think we've seen before, less like coded or hidden. And also with like masculinity, I think. Some of like some of the symbols that we can see, I think, I think one of the common elements is just like being a man or engaging with masculinity a little bit differently. Because he's always been pretty outspoken about it and he's always played with it.

and but now it feels like he's almost analyzed it a bit or is putting more of the analysis into the music if that makes any sense. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any examples? I think we're going to talk about like some of the symbols, but like the dogs and the military and him listening to his mother more. Right.

You know, and even him like voicing women on the project. Like he is taking on a voice of a woman and like, doing that he is examining his masculinity a bit more more holistically than I think we've seen more maturely than we've seen before right yeah yeah yeah yeah we'll definitely talk about the the father thread um when we get to to talking about like him but yeah I just wanted to read a quote quickly for those that haven't seen the video clip but essentially at the the listening party in inglewood on Sunday he says this about the album essentially said he wanted to talk it's started as him wanting to talk about his childhood growing up in Hawthorne and giving us some details that we just don't know about his life growing up specifically.

And he said that turned into him just taking a bunch of things that his mom had told him as he was growing up and kind of letting those influencer inspire some of the subject matter of the songs. And then he says this quote talking about what his mom told him. he said, I'm 33 and all of this stuff is like, oh, that's what she was talking about. I'm not the guy who I was at 20. People are getting older, folks having kids, starting families, and all I have is a Ferrari. I got a gray hair on my chest. Life is lifing, and I don't know. I just wanted to kind of write about stuff that I think about when I'm Dolo.

I'm happy you all got to experience it in my hometown. So, yeah, it's very much someone approaching middle age. You know, his last album was all about luxury. traveling, spending, eating, and it felt like time is being is less of a luxury to him now and him realizing that time is our only luxury maybe in some sense. Okay. And just really, yeah, I mean, it is kind of a classic existential. He's not midlife, but in the classical sense, but it feels like he, you know, when you grow older,

you just don't have like the decisions or the lack of decisions. start to weigh a little bit more heavy. So when you're thinking about should I have kids or not, it's like when you're 25, that's a different question than when you're 33, you know, and there's just a little more weight to that consideration. And it just feels like he was taking a pause and just really kind of reflecting on where he is and where he wants to be and where he's going. we'll talk a little bit more about that as it pertains to the idea of light, I think, is like the main motif of the album.

Obviously starts and ends with this idea of light, how to preserve your light. And to me, that kind of meant, at least at this point, it feels like his mom says, don't dim your light for anyone. And there's a purity of your own light when you're a child. and I feel like as you get older, and this is something I often think about is how to preserve, I don't think about it as light, but on the album,

it's kind of, it manifests as light as the essential kind of symbol. And how do you preserve your light as you age? As you maybe start making choices because you're a certain age and you feel like you should have kids or you're getting pressure to have kids, you should be at this point in your,

career and you're not and you start to sacrifice maybe some of yourself because of certain pressures, whether it's familiar or societal. And it's like, how do you stay true to yourself as you age was kind of something I've been kind of thinking about actively as I'm listening and considering this album, which is a pretty powerful theme, right? I mean, it's something, and it goes into this idea of a mask and the roles that we're playing to appease, you know, whoever it may be. And yeah, how do you, how do you maintain who you are as you age? It's a pretty powerful question. I feel like the album is asking. Sure. Yeah. Yes, go. I mean, like, when I'm thinking about what the album's talk, like, as far as these themes, I'm looking at it like, this is like a couple years ahead of me.

It's like, one of my feelings with this album is like, oh, this, I got to do. that. It's coming. Yeah. I gotta do that soon in a minute. So that makes a lot of sense. I wonder too if that deals with the theme of paranoia coming up on the album, him like worried about protecting himself and like what he has versus what he could do still. Like him talking about like protecting himself is a big deal on this album or how he could or if he should be doing it to the extent that he has for so long. All of those things. I think they they work together. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's in terms of what he said about you're kind of reflecting on his childhood and sharing it a little bit more about that.

I'm not sure how much that thread really came through in the end. And it sounded like at least what he said about it, he kind of pivoted. It started as that and then it kind of ended up being this other thing. But the paranoia of the album, I think he was trying to link it back to growing up in Hawthorne. I forgot on what song.

There's a line where he says, like something about growing up and people ask, like, where are you from? essentially like you know I'm talking about yeah um and that paranoia kind of trend like being a bit of him from because of where he is from yeah that's like just something that's always been in him a trauma he's always had to deal with sort of thing yeah yeah and that only kind of yeah exacerbating once he had more things to protect right so yeah it's um it's not the album I was expecting it just it was such a left turn for me in terms of the

The role, and maybe I just was looking, I was looking too much into the rollout. I know that now. Not that I regret it. It was very fun to do that. But yeah, the theatrics of the rollout just, yeah, as a complete U-turn in terms of such a vulnerable album. And a vulnerable album throughout, one of the, on my first listens, one of the things I was thinking about was there's a version of this album where a lot of the more quote-unquote

accessible songs are front-loaded and a song like, hey Jane, hey Jane is buried towards the back, you know, and it gets the vulnerable stuff more towards the end. But, I mean, he gets pretty vulnerable almost, you know, within the first four songs we get Hey Jane. And then that kind of turns the album in this different direction. And I just, and so then it kind of oscillates between almost one for one, vulnerable song with a more bravado, upbeat, traditional rap song. There's a lot of the oscillation going. on throughout the album, which I thought was cool and interesting in terms of just, yeah, I think that he could have made a more commercially appealing album, how he front-loaded it

with songs like Sticky and Thought I Was Dead and Balloon, all those being more up front, starting with a lot of energy and letting it taper towards the end with the vulnerable stuff, but it was very clear he was trying to be very honest. And that was kind of, it seems like that was the main through line. Hey, Jane being like song five was the moment. That's the moment where it's like, oh, this was not, this is not a Tyler. This was not a regular Tyler structure. This was not what I was expected.

Like that was the moment I was like, what's, what's happened? This is very different. Like that's. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get and it's like, oh, wow. Like is that the, you know, is that the kind of emotional gem of the album? And it's like no.

Nope. There's more. Because judge, like judge Judy, if you understand what's, what's going on in that song, I think, which is, I think, one of his, his, I don't know if it's a fling or whatever you want to call, somebody he was in a relationship with or seemingly dies of cancer and is riding to him from beyond the grave, which is very heavy when I realize I think that's what's going on. Did you catch that at all? I thought it was like mental health, but I did think that she passed, right? And like him talking about a relationship that seems real. He's talked about this last, night, which is this is crazy that we have had no time. He talked about this last night that like this is album, everything he is saying is true. Yeah. That's wild.

Like I can see a Tyler in the past making up something like this. Right. But doesn't feel made up at all. Like, and that just hits totally differently. Like you actually. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing it's true and then also him being able to craft, I mean, if we're talking about Judge

Judy, to craft a song. or an emotional musical palette that really delivers that message in a very impactful, you know, meaningful way, the marriage of, and something I should just say, because I might forget to say it later,

his writing on this album is fucking exceptional. Lyrically, there are some lines, there is the storytelling. He's just getting so fluid and organic with his, not only his flow, but like just his, his lyricism, there's that the opening line of tomorrow where he says,

my mother's hands don't look the same. My mother's hands don't look the same. These jet black strands are turning gray. Which is it like poetic? That is a perfect line. And him delivering it and like a different voice that we've really heard from him before. Yeah. Who, yeah.

Yeah, they're just on the first couple of listens, I was just, you know, hey Jane is a hard song to execute. You could say you want to write a song about getting pregnant with someone and debating. In the back and forth in that being a conversation. That's a great concept. To execute that concept is a totally different thing and he fucking nails it. Right. Musically, lyrically, delivery, like the detail of emotion.

It's like you're saying like everything's true. I believe him when we hear a song like Dear Jane, some of those details you just can't write had you not felt those feelings and him able to articulate those feelings as powerfully as he is on this record. Just the lyricism alone I was very impressed with multiple times. There's just certain lines. I want to actually want to pull up the opening line on the last verse of St. Chroma. he says, I am just a box with the light of thunder in me.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I is just a box with a light of thunder in me. Raditudes and under the hubris that's on my sleeve. Like, are you kidding? The synesthesia in the line of it being of light and thunder instead of like. Yeah.

Yeah. But saying he's just a box also. And that's, that's, that's a like, that's, that's a crazy line. In terms of like, that is a great line. And I'm just not used to hearing those kind of lines come from Tyler in this way.

And maybe just as consistently, he's always been a great lyricist. But yeah, there's just moments where I was just like, wow. The maturity and the experience all just kind of lining up on this album. Really impressive. Okay, so let's get into, or did you have anything else on themes that you wanted to hit at this point? We're going to hit them in the songs. I know we're going to. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So let's, yeah, I did want to, I wanted to think of ways where we could talk specifically about certain songs and moments and not kind of letting this be a general discussion because on dissect we try to get into the nitty gritty as much as we can. Caviot being we're only two days into this record. But I did ask you and I did the same exercise, which was to pick one song that kind of was interesting, the most interesting to you on, you know, day two. and kind of just unpack a little bit of it. So you picked Thought I Was Dead, which I will have to say up front because I'm very curious. This was probably my least favorite song on the album.

So when do you pick this? I was like, okay, great. Like, sell me on it. So why thought I was dead? I mean, first off, it rattled my car. Like, it just, it was bumped. Like, ooh, it hit really hard. Like, it had been like a half single.

And so I was kind of like expecting it ready for it on that first listen. It's an extended it. We got the full version now and it just it was bumping. I think it's really cool that it is Tyler's statement on the big three debate. Everybody talked about who the big three are. Nobody was saying Tyler. So I think him saying they thought I was dead was him talking about why was I not named? Did you guys think I was dead?

Like I think to me that's the framing of the title and the way he does it. he is also doing the bravado disrep in the Tyler way that makes sense in his mature state now. Like when I'm thinking about like the masculinity themes on the album, he's dialed back his hatred so much in the last few years. He's not saying things wild, not hating wildly, but he is still waking up at five in the morning hating and going to pretend he being hating. Like he's still doing it. But because the hatred is now like dialed, it's realer. It's it hits a little harder, which is kind of crazy. I love that we get schoolboy Q and Sanagold features.

Like I think San Diego's used perfectly. I think school boy cues used perfectly. I think that they both fit the thought I was dead idea because school boy, like we know his return of blue lips this year has been awesome. But we know we all thought he was. like we thought that. Santa Gold, I think herself, like she's had some struggles with this as well.

There's, we have the mystery cardi feature of this song. Have you heard? Oh, right. So like, it's on the vinyl. It's on the vinyl. Yeah.

So we have that, which is really sick. And I just like the, and also he's barring out. T changed like the fit got dirty. So sick. Sick. And him talk,

and him talking directly about like hitting 30, losing youth, but still being able to go like this. I want to set myself up so I can do the same. Like I would like to be able to go into age and still be able to go as hard as he is. And that like that's what he's preserving. When we talk about like, what do you lose as you grow older and stuff like him preserving this spirit and energy within himself, his inner hater. Right.

This is lethal. You want to be able to hate till you're 60 can. I do. I want to be able to hate well not because it's not hating stupid. It's not hating like, oh, these kids these days, they don't know what they're. do no it's very real and thought through and that like it makes sense yeah it's okay yeah so it's dialed in i love it okay i got to call out one because i there's one of my favorite moments on the album is on the song and it's the so the song kind of builds up for the first like 30 seconds

and then when the beat kick or just before the beat kicks in there's that like trumpet blast where it's like really crazy you know what I'm talking about? But it's just like such because you hear it a little bit of trumpet before kind of playing in the background but it's just one of those moments that only happens once

and it's like it functions as you know like a drum fill or something that then leads to the beat kicking in but it's just like the most round But awesome, but awesome little detail. Okay, that sells me on it. I guess my only, my only thing, I just don't really, at this moment, don't really like the chorus. Because I love the verses.

I love the beat. I like the song. It's my least favorite and a great album. So it's not like I'm definitely not like hating on it. Right. But brilliant. My song, it was almost like him, but I think we're going to talk about that song enough, probably. Probably, yeah.

So one of the one, the standout track. on, I guess, probably second listen, even first listen, was take your mask off. So, intriguing thematically, right? Because he is wearing a mask on the cover. It's part of the character. So I was definitely just very curious of what the mask would mean. So this one kind of just kind of just explains the concept pretty clearly. And I should caveat this with him saying at last night's Atlanta show, he said, I think I wore mask on the album because that's the only way that I could be this honest and vulnerable.

He called a mask of his face, right? Oh, did he specifically say of his face? I think, yeah, a mask of my face. Really? Like, that's the phrase, yeah. Oh, let me, I'm going to pull it up. Because we've been talking about what that mask was. I know we've had this conversation.

Like, I think he was saying that I had to put on a mask of my face. I know this new album is a little different, but this is the first album where like everything I said is true. And I say that in a sense of it's no exaggeration. It's no like, like, it's so honest that I think I had to wear a mask of my own face to get some of that shit out. Let's put a pin in that thought, but let me get to my little mini dissection of take your mask off. Structured just really cool. So we get up front, we get three stories about three different

types of masks. We have the kind of a suburban kid that ends up putting on a mask of bravado and machismo, kind of this fake tough persona. We get verse two, which is calling out a preacher who is secretly gay, molest children, kind of your classic. It's like very dark, but I mean, that's like the cliche, right? That's the cliche mask. When you think about it, Obviously, it's very fucked up and dark. Then we get the rich homemaker who settles down, has a rich husband, but is unhappy, lost her identity through motherhood and the marriage. All under this umbrella of the chorus, which is, I hope you find yourself, I hope you take your mask off. And one of the interesting things about the song is like the sonics of it, because you could take what he's saying in the verses, and he does speak very sternly, I guess, or you could.

take it that way about these different characters, almost like you could potentially feel like he's judging them or looking down on them. But the chorus and just the overall warmth of the beat kind of lends this empathetic lens to these stories where it's like, okay, I'm going hard and I'm pointing out your mask. But at the end of the day, this chorus, I hope you find yourself. I do actually wish that you can end up being your true self. You lost your true self somewhere along the way due to different pressures or stresses. And I genuinely wish that you will find your way back home, take the mask off and find yourself again. So there's like a bit of, it's just like a weird dichotomy that I thought was really interesting and effective.

But then we get to two minutes and 10 seconds into the song. We get this modulation into a bridge, beautiful, classic Tyler, wonderful, gorgeous bridge section. And then the mom is introduced into the song for the first time. I think the mom's on every song in some way. Right, right, right. Even if it's just very short. So we get the mom and she says, keep that shit 100 with you with yourself. You don't have to put on no costume.

you don't ever have to lie to kick it. And so this sets up the fourth verse, which is Tyler going harder on himself than he did on all three of those first three verses. And it's him looking in the mirror and just criticizing himself, which kind of, this is obviously like the mask off moment or one of the mask off moments of the album,

which contrasts some of the more bravado of the album. The last third of the verse just hits really hard, where he says, tell your spirit why you're feeling it's a rap in the booth, how dare you try to ruin her marriage, claim you never wore a mask and how you don't get embarrassed, which to me, like, that is very interesting knowing Tyler's personality, or at least like what he shows publicly, which is this kind of, yeah, you wouldn't think he's the type to get embarrassed. He's like kind of silly and goofy. And then he says, boy, you selfish as fuck.

that's why you really scared scared of being a parent and so I don't know it just there's a bunch of these lines where I'm just like ouch outch and just being totally brutally honest with himself I just thought it's just a very the structure of the song combined with the sonics of the song it's not a oh and by the way it's not a Drake disc like I got multiple questions about this people were really thinking this was a Drake verse 4 was a Drake diss the whole thing I was like get that man out your mind he's not It doesn't matter. All right.

Yeah. So 100% not a Drake disc. Right. Because, and I think that's worth noting because I don't, we shouldn't diminish the impact of that verse, which I feel like is a standout moment. Right. On the album and conceptually feels really important to the album. Yeah. So that, that was my, my single song selection.

I feel like I could have picked a ton of songs, but again, we're only two days. Two days in the album. Yeah. So next segment, we're going to move. on to our Tyler tradition, which is sharing our favorite time stamps. So if you follow Tyler

on social media, you know that every album release he likes to hear people get specific about particular by the second moments of a song. Explain why you like that particular moment. He just this morning posted his thread on

Twitter about his favorite moments and gave time codes and explanations why. So So Cam, we each picked out three of our favorite moments on the album. So Cam, why don't you kick it off with your first time code? I want to start. Ooh. Okay.

I'm going to go with, I killed you at 216. This, okay. This is when I almost crashed my car. All right. When I listen to this the first time, look, Gambino comes on the song earlier. He starts at 1.30. He's in the background. He's soft.

I couldn't believe it. I didn't know what I was having an out-of-body experience. I said, no. Is it? Is that really? Finally? After my whole life of wanting this? What's happened? And it just, he kept building and building and building and building. And Tyler's putting Gambino in there. And he's singing in the back. Oh, and it's so pretty. But she's like, wait, just let him do something a little. Just let him do a little more. Just let him do a little more. And then we get here. And the way Gambino sings beautiful. And just, I could have, I could have lost it all. I could have crashed. Oh my God.

So let's preface this conversation with your, are you the world's biggest Gambino scholar? I always give you that. Look, I give you that title. That's what you say. Nobody's taking it. Nobody's taking that from me. Nobody else is saying that about themselves or having that said. Yeah.

And okay, then also, can you give a little context about their relationship over the years? Yeah. So, okay, so Tyler the creator, Childish Gambino, to my favorite artists ever. they have been like they've just been like parallel tracks I think in pop culture for so many years and they were kind of aware of it like they know that each other they were both occupying

similar spaces a lot of people who are fans of one are fans of the other but they weren't really like linking up there is a super early Donald Glover blog where he's like I met Tyler he's crazy like and he's like talking about meeting him for the first time and the odd future guys and being like man they're really

cool, but I'm not quite like that. Right? So they had like a just parallel tracks. There's a little bit of weirdness between them because they were running in the same circles, doing all that. Like there's got to be like they know they're there, right? Right. It's a few years before they start talking about how good each other is.

Like Tyler didn't say anything until because the internet when he loved to earn. Like he freaked out because he loved the song earned. And like that was the first time he had said anything. but it's been years of them just kind of operating in the same space parallel tracks but not really getting together unless you count an episode of the regular show

where they were like cartoons they have like cartoons and they're doing like a battle rap right so it's just like weird space and I'm like why are they not holding hands and now they're holding hands and it's pretty great this whole year like they did Tyler perform Coachella he brought Gambino out

Gambino on Bando Stone says, you know I'm allergic to the drama. You saw me and Tyler. Like they've been getting together. Tyler really talked a lot about Atlanta when Atlanta was finishing up its run. So they've been talking about each other. They've been working together.

And we just got Tyler the creator and Tyler Scampino on a song. It's wild that it took this long. Was there ever friction between them or not really? I guess the friction was probably just like unspoken and just like the, I guess they, I don't know, like, when you know somebody's doing kind of the same thing as you, like they're both doing very similar polymath thing, like, you know,

so I think it's just that. Okay. Yeah. So I couldn't believe it. This happened tonight, like, like, you. Yeah. Okay, so I'll pivot to my first time code. I'm going to save Like him for a second.

Okay. I'm not quite ready for that. So let's go with, I hope you find your way home, the end of the album. For the record, I'll say I've been trying to figure out the album loop. Have you done the album loop yet? What do you mean? Like playing it repeatedly? The last song going back into the first song and how that, it's very seamless.

And I was like, oh, is there something there in terms of like, I guess like some coded symbolism or something going on with the chords? because the experience of it is very smooth and seamless. Like you don't feel like the album started over, right? Right. One of the thoughts I was like, oh, does it kind of begin with the end? Because what is mom says in the very beginning moments of the album is kind of the album, right? And it would feel like an appropriate ending. So that's one thought I had where it's like, oh, that's kind of interesting, where it's like what she says at the beginning.

And if you're playing in a loop, ties directly into what she says at the very end of the album. So it is held together thematically as a loop. If there's anything beyond it, just feeling intentional and smooth, I'm working on it. I'll definitely make a video on it if there's something revelatory there. The people are waiting. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I have something musical, but I'll save it for when I'm sure. Okay, sweet. But I am working on that. But the section that I wanted to point out for this exercise is at three minutes and eight seconds. Like, we just, it just never seems to have made me. Like, you're just, just no words like how I feel.

Do you think, you just keep, keep shining. So good. Yeah. It's so good. Okay, I love this moment because the album could have ended with the mom saying, crying and then saying keep shining. But then we get this whole extra section after that moment. And what does he do to keep shining?

It's all musical at that point. Like, we don't hear anything else from Tyler at this, except if you count chromocopia chand at the very end. But essentially, he shines by playing this beautiful, very skilled, very, very musically articulate solo over these beautiful chords. And it's just like, ah, this is like, it feels like Tyler in his element. It feels like if you're going to ask Tyler to shine, like this is it. It's the musical expression. It's him figuring all of this out. It's him getting better as a musician to be able to execute a moment like this.

I just feel like this moment for me is like one you can really point to as a like a crystallization of his maturation as a musician, as an artist, as a as a maturing person. And it's just so impactful the way it's done. And to end the album on that note, the back to back of the mom crying being proud, me as a parent, I feel that moment. probably a little bit extra and then we get the thematic kind of conceptual land of Keep Shining which kind of ties a nice bow on the whole album and then to bring it home with this gorgeous solo just fucking for me that that kind of moment just really just got me going it's something I look forward to every time as I'm approaching the end of the album just beautifully executed like perfect execution of that that moment that's beautiful no it's so beautiful Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I do love it. Okay. The next moment then I want to talk about is thought I was dead. We're going back to it. Okay. Okay. I want to go to like the last time a bit of the courses played at 3.11. I got what to take. I don't want to be found you. I don't want to be down your hole. I don't like coming around your hole. I'm not knock knock at you, though. Just me. All right. That was wrong. That song's awesome. Sick. The thing I love about this, I mean, besides how he ends. talking directly to Trave, which is really cool, but that's not the moment. The moment here is when he adds the yo-ho to the I don't want to be down.

Yeah, yeah. That swing in that? Yeah. Come on. Like, I wish. Yeah. I wish that was through the whole song, but it's just at the end. But when it, you can't, you can't hold that back.

Now, I was going to say that I love it that it's only at the end because that's what he's so great at is just finding that little extra pocket, that little extra like. It's incredible. Yeah, just that little bit, little more sauce on, you know, the core idea and just getting the most, extracting the most out of a single idea. I didn't notice that until just now. So that's a great. Like live, live, I know it. I know it's going to be good.

Like, that's it. That's what I know. Yeah. That's the one. Okay. Let me get into then tomorrow. It's kind of similar to my first, my first call out. But it's 2.13.

into tomorrow. Let's hear it first and we'll talk about it. So again, yeah, it is a bit similar to my first call-out, but it's just this contrast between these beautiful strings, swelling up with the vocals of the chorus, and it just kind of breaking in this way that you just don't really expect where it goes, it just all of a sudden tapers off into these arpaciated guitar chords

and a synth solo on top. And then, but then you get the dog barks, And the weird chance, which is just okay, like, who else is going to put a dog bark during this beautiful section? True. Right, right, right. And it's just, yeah, it's just one of those, particularly, like, the solo and the guitar are great, but it's the way that it gets into that. And the contrast with that, just the lushness of the strings and the swell of all these layered voices, just creating like a very beautiful, beautiful moment. And it's like, when I'm talking about his maturation.

as a musician, those are the kind of moments that I'm talking about. It's like Tyler of even like four years ago can't do that. Um, doesn't make those kind of moments. And it's like those kind of moments are all over this thing. So that's, that's what I want to call out. But we're avoiding the inevitable here. We know where we're going. Yeah. Okay. So once you or actually, let's see who has so we have a few here. And I think we both called out different sections and mine is first in the song. So maybe let's try to go through it like, go through it in the sections. And yeah, in a kind of linear fashion. So I'll go first with mine. I technically have two.

You have two. So we'll do me in the middle. Yeah. All right, sweet. So like him is I think a standout track. Yeah. In this, if Tyler, if this is Tyler's most vulnerable, honest album, it feels like like him is the pinnacle of that expression. From start to finish. I'm sure everyone listening knows, but essentially it's him confronting his feelings about his father, kind of who has been absent in his life. We've heard him talk about his father throughout his discography,

maybe most famously on answer, right, off of Wolf, always been, felt like there was some tension there to say the least, right? And this, well, we'll talk about the end of the song, but essentially this song is like confronting some of that. And, you know, I think we both grew up with fathers. That's true, right? Yeah. So I think there's a, based on the comments and specifically the one that Tyler shared from a listener on his Instagram,

it feels like there's a layer to the song that probably you and I aren't going to be able to really feel. But I'm getting the sense that, especially for those that might have not grown up with a father like this is really hitting home in a way that maybe other songs haven't really articulated. this clearly. So let's get into my first moment, which is at one minute and 33 seconds. Okay, so the song starts with, yeah, it's great. The song starts, but this is, it's kind of the same, I'm finding a thread with all my selections here, though, which is the song begins, and I remember thinking of like this on my first listen of the song. It's just Tyler at the piano, and the piano feels like it's miced as if it's just like in his living room or something. And it's like a very intimate close personal song. And he's singing in a voice that we just don't hear him singing often.

It's very transparent. And so I remember wondering like where is this song going to go? And then the moment that we just played is when it breaks from that original text, that intimate texture into the fully fleshed out version. There's a drum fill. there's this kind of swell that happens, and you think it's going to just kind of explode into your classic, big, kind of bombastic version ballad thing, right? But then it doesn't.

Like, then it just kind of just sinks into this groove that I definitely did not expect at all. And it's just like 6-8 feel. There's no more piano. There's just the synthesizer. And then we get this really reverbed out guitar lead, which is just, The groove itself is just spectacular.

And it adds this like contemplative kind of feeling to it. And then we also hear a theremin, which is interesting because the song is like the chorus is, I'm chasing a ghost. And a theremin is an instrument that we traditionally think about. It's often used to kind of portray the supernatural, be it UFOs or ghosts. It's the, is it the handy, hand airways? Yeah, you control it with your hand. It's a frequency, like it has a very distinct frequency.

Oh, that's so. Or timbre. That's so cool. So that feels intentional, right? Yeah, wait a minute. Chasing a ghost. So cool detail there, right? Yeah.

But even beyond that kind of Easter egg, I feel like just the groove is so cool. But do you want to go to now your section? Yeah, we're going to skip a little bit ahead. We're going to get to about like three minutes, three minute, three minutes, two seconds and run through 312. Okay. Okay, so the huh from baby Keem. I don't know if it's officially accredited yet or not. I don't care.

That's Baby Keem or I'm not who I am. Like, that's baby Kim. The huh is, I think in the background a little bit before like 15 seconds earlier. I don't care. It doesn't matter. Huh. Like that. Like that breath.

That moment is incredible. Because then I'm like, is Baby Kim about to show up? No, it's about to get into another beautiful and interesting section. No. like another place. Only Tyler would do that. Like only Tyler would do that. I know that's yeah.

It's incredible. And then you get the dog barks over that what we just heard as well. Yeah, I don't know what to think about the baby Keem, huh? It's a. I wonder if it's baby Kim dealing with similar experiences, I think. But this is off me just trying to remember melodic blue. Yeah. But oh my God.

That was kind of like if there is any, if it's just not. an aesthetic thing because it works it works for me it's kind of funny yeah right but it does work like before i knew it was baby keem and i was just not really thinking about that like it it works but yeah i did i'd add the same thought where it's like yeah baby keem also i'm pretty sure grew up without the father i was waiting for him to come on and do a verse i'm not gonna lie my first i'm right yeah i was like that but that's baby keem where when's he is that okay do you think that's Is that a sample or did baby Kim come in the studio to do? I hope he came in the studio.

Tyler's like, I gotta get, I need you on this. Yo, Keen. I need you to come in right now. Stop what you're doing. This is a very important feature right now. Okay, so my next moment is at four minutes to four minutes and 20 seconds. Got yours, not he is. It was my phone.

I'm sorry. You know, not him because he always wanted to be there for you. And I'm sorry, I was young. But he's always wanted to be a father to him. So I fucked up. Jesus Christ. Okay. God.

That, okay, let me just talk about it musically because obviously it's, it's maybe the emotional climax of the entire album that moment. But though, again, it's like, I want to really emphasize how he is nailing these moments, musically to make them as impactful. Because it's one thing to have the concept. Right. It's one thing to have this tape of your mom taking her mask off, right? If, this is her mask off moment. If there ever is fucking one, right?

And so it's like, okay, you have the tape. You have this song. How do I incorporate this into the song in a way that is going to be as effective as possible? And he does it because it's like you have this huge, you think the song's ending. It's song kind of ends, right? Like a huge climax. There's a really great bass solo. I don't know who's playing bass, but maybe Thundercat on this song. And it's just like, it's your classic bombastic kind of ending to a ballad like this. And then it just cuts out. And then right away, you get those dong kind of ominous like, dong, tom or whatever it is. And then we get the tape.

And then the synth comes back in. And it's just like, oh, just you like, just, you like, just, Just musically, it's so effective to me. And then we get the sentiment of what said, which is her admitting essentially that she was the one that distanced the father, that the father did want to be there for him, and then asking Tyler for forgiveness, which is, I mean, I don't, there's nothing really I could say. I couldn't believe it.

I like, it's extremely heavy, extremely vulnerable. to put it on there. I mean, vulnerable for his mom to allow it on there. Him, again, her saying that she was young, her now aging, I think of the opening line tomorrow.

My mom's hands don't look the same. Living with regrets and all these, confronting all these things, taking the mask off, so powerful. Yeah. We're all getting older every second. The call of getting older

as a call to be on. honest and then actually doing it. Yeah. How many of us actually do what we should? How many of us actually, yeah, my God. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah.

Jesus. I just think, again, this is just, it's so special being able to witness and because, I mean, I also think of, like, Tyler's fan base being probably the bulk of it more or less his age, you know, and growing with him. and experiencing these same things and having someone like Tyler, who was like a prankster and a troll came in as a, you know what I mean? And seeing like someone like him, especially mature.

Right. Yes. Right. And in the public eye and to do it this gracefully and to be a model in a lot of ways, I think it's just his trajectory is just so powerful to me. For him to hit this honesty at this moment. Yeah. Yeah.

It's crazy. It's like, it's admirable. It's really cool. Okay. We did it. Yeah. Let's take a, let's take a quick break from that. And when we come back, we're going to, we'll lighten it up.

We're going to, we're going to share our favorite three song sequence of the album. We're going to share our favorite feature. And then we're going to get into some, some light dissections. All right. We are back. It is time now for our. Our favorite three-song sequence, Tyler is excellent at sequencing. There's definitely multiple times on the project where the end of one song

seamlessly goes into the next. I think of, what is it, ratata. Ratata. Ratata. The Pokemon. That's the obvious one where he says, you guys are weird and I'm paranoid, and then it goes in the song Paranoid. But there's more than, that's the most obvious one.

But there's tons of those little sequencing was very intentional on the album. So I'm curious, what was your favorite stretch of the album? So I can go with, like, I could go with a stretch towards the end, or I could go with the one that's for me right now that I still can't believe exists. I'm going back to the Gambino. Whatever. I'm calling it the childish Gambino suite. Okay. I killed you into Judge Judy. And then I get to play sticky. I get sticky. Ha ha. That's, yeah, that theory sequence. Yeah. Oh, it's so sick. Okay. So late, okay, put to rest that Judge Judy features Gambino and not

Frank Ocean. Okay, so we need to talk about this. So it is Gambino. I think Tyler just tweeted that it was like that he loves the way Donald was having his notes. Yeah, he confirmed it. Yeah. Going with the instrumental. Here's the thing that I haven't seen people talk about yet that I, like was the first thing that I thought.

Judge Judy, obviously Tyler has his whole concept with it. Judge Judy is a very important symbol for childish Gambino because it's how he ends the show Atlanta. Darius in the show Atlanta is experiencing

like simulation theory. So was the entire show a simulation? The whole, like the thesis of the end, the last episode is like, if Judge Judy on TV has a large derrier or not, tells you whether or not the world is real or it's

the fake simulation. And so like the end of the show is Darius smiling while watching Judge Judy and you don't know as the audience whether or not it was fat. And so Tyler, like, loved the end of Atlanta. He talked about the end of Atlanta when it came out. He was promoted, like he thought it was so great. He said he had a lot of nice things to say. So for him to throw Gambino on to the song called Judge Judy, I'm not going to pretend like I know everything that it means,

but there is that call. Like, that is interesting. I wonder if he just put Gambino on it because it's funny. The Judge Judy thing, like, because I don't know, because the feature is so small. But I love it. I can't not point it out. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I'm also, I also need to point out that both Gambino and Tyler sampled, um, I want a rock by Luke that don't stop that sample. Yeah, yeah. Because he did that on Bando, right? Yeah, and their 2024 albums, they're both sampling the same song. Right. Well, how'd that happen, guys? What, oh, you do? I think it's really cool. And sticky is very fun. I really like Gloverilla, I think is incredible. Like Gloverilla,

sexy red, Lil Wayne, Tyler all working on it. Like, that one goes. That's a hit. That's really cool. Yeah, I really like that. And I love that how short each verse is. And I love that Tyler just doesn't have one. He kind of because one of my gripes with posse cuts, not a gripe, but like,

whoever song it is, quote unquote, it never feels like their song. Sticky still feels like Tyler's song, even though there's three features on it because he, he, he, there's so many parts, he has, that whole outro is him, but yeah, I think he has, he has two or three verses on it. Or, hard to call him verses because they're so short. But anyways, it's just, it was strategically very cool the way that he did that. Having three guests on it, but also making it feel still like a Tyler song. Yeah. And so not feeling like this odd thing out of, outside of the project. Okay. So I'm going to go Noid, Darling Eye, Hey, Jen. as my current three song sequence.

I could easily go like him, balloon. I hope you find your way home. But we talked a lot about that. That, so Noid, I don't want to discredit Noid. Noid's fucking awesome. It is sick. I played it too much. I tried so hard not to play it too much before the album came out,

but it's kind of sticking out of the album for me because I've heard it more than the other songs. So I'm like, you know what I mean? But that song is phenomenal. One of my favorite moments on. the album is still the Ngozzi family sample. We've just never heard anything like that in a Tyler song, and it's impactful every single time it comes on.

And then that going into Darling Eye, that song is, we haven't talked about that song. One of my favorite songs on the album, Tizo's great on that song. The vibe is just so special. And then going into Hey Jane, which is a masterpiece of storytelling.

And just so you get, you kind of get the whole project in that little three song run. You've got to get all the elements. True. You know what I mean? If you're trying to pick out that, you know, three song in the run that could explain the album. That was the one.

I'm like, oh, that kind of gives you a little bit of everything that's on this album. But maybe the most impactful to me is the last stretch. Fed it. Like him, Balloon. I hope you find your way home is pretty incredible. And I got to call out the way that the way balloon feels after the emotional intensity of Lycan, feels so good. Right.

When you hear those little like those bright little chords come in and like things get upbeat and he's talking about using this balloon to kind of as a metaphor for keep going higher and you know moving on or so you know what I mean?

Like keeping it light like just true. It's very if the sequencing was very effective right there for me in terms of a mood switch into this more hopeful ending after a pretty intense emotional moment. I think that leads us straight into the features, right?

Yeah, let me just go into my favorite feature then. Pretty obvious pick for me. I'm going Dochi on balloon. I, what a swamp piss. Buy his bitch up in the room. I need a cock pig. I need some Peter for this pussy. They want the cropped free.

I'm in there air these deal on niggas out the closet. I was so excited that when I first heard her come on, I was like, yes. Because she had just gotten the cosign from Kendrick on Instagram and then getting the co-sign from Tyler here. I mean, Tyler, um, attended her album release party. So that was cool to see a couple months ago, but then to get this kind of formal stamp that she's on the album with a, you know, it's not just like some vocals that you're like, who is that? It's like, no, she has a legit verse, maybe the longest guest verse of the album. Oh, maybe true.

Maybe, I don't know. Or maybe schoolboy. Well, his is kind of short, too. I don't know. Hmm. Because she has the full verse. and then she comes back with like the little chorus yeah but i just love her energy she's got great word play doing the cockpit need one of my favorite lines was i need pita for this pussy because pita

could be the animal rights group which would make pussy the pussy cat play but then pita the bread uh so we get that play as well which is great um but then okay It sounds so silly coming from me. You're going to say it out loud. I'm going to say it out loud. I air this bitch out like a queef. It's fucking incredible. When I first heard that, it was like literal spit take.

I was like, what the fuck? It's so good. And she's calling back to what Tyler said, which is I aired this bitch out like a balloon, which is what he says before. And the way she flips it is like so great. And I also love which she says, your, spray your whole block with the floor, which is like super clever.

It's just like replacing the gun with like his fragrance. It's just cool. And very cool that she said that this was her most desired collaboration. So she nailed it. And if you haven't listened to Dochi's interview on Dissect, go listen to it. It's the first artist interview that we did. I think it was a great conversation. So if you missed that, go.

I'm going to use this opportunity to plug it. Okay. Are you just going to go back to Gambino for your favorite? First off I'm going to point out, it's so funny, Tyler was so scared of having children, and then he has Dochi on his song, okay, as if Dochi is not a Tyler child. Then I'm going to wonder, hmm, maybe baby Kim. Was it baby? No.

Yeah, I'm going to say his childish Gambino. I'm going to say that like the most. Your third time talking about. I'm not even going to have to say anything. Do I have to say anything else? Cam. He says like one word on the album. This is a victory lap.

You understand what this means, Cole? Okay, I got it. All right. I'm trying to think of any other features that we should shout out, though. I love Tizo. Yeah. If we're talking about Tyler's children, I mean, that's 100% one of them. True.

Daniel Caesar, obviously, is all over this thing and seems like he was pretty important to the, seems like he was just in the studio a lot with Tyler. So that seems important to at least acknowledge. Yeah, schoolboy was great. I mean, all the feature. Oh, we should talk. about like, okay, why did Tyler hide the features? So a couple days before the album releases, he puts, what does he tweet it or says something? No features. Or he put it in his bio.

No features. And so, and then when we get the track list, you open the album up on Spotify, the day of, there's no features listed in the credits. That changes on Tuesday. I have a theory about why he did this. Oh, what do you think? Which is, I think, I think, in this kind of social media culture of like album hype and speculation. Yeah. The features always seem to override the actual album itself. People are like, oh, like, it's going to be featuring Travis Scott or it's like, it's got a blah, blah, blah feature. And then it's like, but you're getting an entire album from this artist. Like, be excited about the album.

That's true. I get you're excited like someone's going to have a feature, but I always thought that was strange. and just knowing Tyler, I feel like it's like, okay, you guys are all going to get excited about all these features. I want you to experience this album without thinking about that. I want you to just experience it as a body of work where these artists are on the project, but don't let that distract you from just the totality of the experience of it, at least on day one. And then it makes perfect sense then that he reveals formally the features the day after. That's true.

Do you buying that theory? No, for sure, because the experience. of almost crashing my car when hearing Chattas Gambino. Like, yeah, if you knew. If I knew, I'd be like, is it going to be a verse? Is he going to sing? Okay. I'd be worried about it.

You would have been disappointed. I would have been disappointed. Yeah. You're right. Damn. That's so good. Yeah. That's true.

Right. Okay. Sick. Okay. Time for some light dissections. Caviar. We don't know anything. It's 48 hours.

There's a lot to unpack. I'm excited about the notion of unpacking it over the next couple months. but we are going to return to some of the main elements of the rollout, some of the motifs that we've noticed on the album, and just kind of see if we can better wrap our head around some of the concept stuff. So let me start, let's just start again with the light. So he lays it out very clearly at the last verse of St. Chroma. He says, I am just a box with the light of thunder in me.

Gratitude sits under the hubris that's on my sleeve. which that line tells so much about this oscillation between bravado and vulnerability on the album where it's like the outward me, there's hubris, there's ego, but underneath that is this gratitude and I need to show that more. Then he says, Mama said I'm special. I was blowing shit up back at home in Chromacopia. So interesting that he names, Chromacopia is a place back home. And right after he says, Mama said, I'm special, I think referring to his childhood.

So pin in that. I don't like the way that this is looking. Mirror got me thinking about my book in. I just need this time to figure myself out. Do I keep the light on or do I gracefully bow out? And that's the end of St. Chroma, the first song. So he's setting up the album as me figuring out myself, looking in the mirror, thinking about my bookend, meaning either the end of my career or the end of my life.

I don't think do I keep the light on or do I gracefully bow out as like a suicidal. I don't read that as suicidal ideation. Theatrical. Yeah, theatrical, maybe more about like living under the spotlight. That's how I took it. Or even gracefully bowing out meaning like do I dim the light? Do I recede? Do I start compromising as I'm getting older?

So that to me kind of lays out the album. Was that your reading as well? I think so is, yeah. I think it serves as a thesis, right? I mean, we got second verse on the first song. Yeah. I mean, my English teacher brain is telling me

that's the thesis, right? Like, sorry, but it kind of does seem like that's like the outline and blueprint. So if we're tying it to this idea of chroma, chromocopia, I mean, it makes sense that he would say back at home in chromocopia. If, and so one, one of the things that maybe I should just lay it out here is that the idea that St. Chroma may actually be his mom and not the military character.

Yeah, the military character has the horns. And like, they just put out a shirt that has like it even emphasized it like that face has horns. Right. So if that was the saint, that would be, like, see, this is what we mean with. Like, there's so, it's so. Yeah. There's stuff to do. There's unpacking.

Yeah. A saint is like someone, you follow, you devote to, you express gratitude for. You know, there's obviously Christian iconography there. But if the mother is the guiding light, so to speak, on the album, it would make sense that she is actually the saint and not the Tyler character. And if it's back home at Chromacopia and Mama said, I'm special, meaning within this house that I grew up in was like, this safe space because my mother was supportive and always encouraging me, giving me this

advice that I'm only now understanding and really feels like the light of his world, the house could be chromocopia, especially if his plan was to talk about maybe some of the rougher aspects of his upbringing and this having a safe space and calling it chromocopia where he was allowed to be himself and not, you know, and so that's kind of where I'm, my mind's going with that in terms of what is chromocopia. But chroma itself, there's, like I talked about in the pre-release episode, there's a ton of definitions for it. The base level of simplest explanation is that it just means color.

But specifically it refers to a certain aspect of color. And one definition is it represents the, quote, purity of a color related to saturation with lower chroma being less pure or more washed out. So if the central analogy is mom saying don't dim your light for anyone and the temptation to dim your light as you get older, chromocopia, copia meaning abundance, seems to tie into this idea of still trying to burn pure, burn bright as you age and how you do that. Right. Seems now with the album, for me at this moment, to be the most. relevant explanation. You feel in that too? I buy that. It's just there's so much. I feel like I feel

you're talking about this one forever. I know. And that's so exciting. I need to see the live show. I need to see the stuff here is. I need to see what the heck is going on with the cargo bay things. Like why do they have? Carmicopia. Like I need more, but this is so sick. Yeah. I had a thought about the cargo shipping containers. What's that? So could that be cargo shipping container isn't that could you consider that baggage okay you could consider baggage that does make but he's blowing it up so he's blowing up his confronting confronting his baggage right and then that was kind of that makes sense then the baggage is the shadowy men okay the shadow okay that i have a thought for that okay what's the shadowy men which okay if you look at the st chroma video

you see the Tyler character leading them. He's in the front of the line, but he is in line. Right. And then he distances himself and starts to direct them into there. So if he's at once part of it and he is wearing a mask as they're all wearing kind of masks, I guess, like they're. The shrouded. Silhouetted. Yeah, the silhouetted face.

So if he's leading them into the cargo, okay, this is, yeah, this is definitely maybe just re-reaching. But if he's leading in the cargo and then exploding it, could that just be like it's violent, but it's also like symbolic of transformation? Could that be him kind of leading these people to confront their own baggage, to take off their mask to access this light, this color? Maybe.

Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. That's like really the only thing, like, why else? Or, okay, we should also caveat this with like, the rollout elements could just be a separate thing. Could just be loosely tied. Yeah, they just could just could. look cool. Because they do. Yeah.

The character just look, could just look cool. I must be so mad at Tyler, if that's the case, though. Like, but you think about like Igor, it's like, did the Igor character I love the Igor character? I know, but did it really, like, relate to the album?

I think. How much did the blonde wig and the suit, like, illuminate the album? Like, was it directly tied, or was it like that just looks fucking cool? It was character. It was, it was performance. It also just looked cool.

We'll never know. We're never going to know. Yeah. It's like as we're speculating, it's like that there's just a possibility that these world elements are just kind of aesthetic. Yeah. Okay, so a couple other things.

Military theme. Mm-hmm. The only thing I can think about for this was like the idea of going to war with yourself. Okay. other than that I just I just don't know gosh you for me this is part of the crux of the masculinity but masculinity seems to touch so many of the like the motifs and the things we're talking about because it's to me it's the dogs it is the military aspect the dog yeah dog barking throughout

the entire album you should just say yeah unlike him right after baby keem when the dog's bark he's talking about his dad I'm like yeah that that type of thing um and then the mask That is mask unity. Like, to me, the military stuff is all encompassing of, like, the masculinity that Tyler is sort of interrogating and engaging with, right? There's ideas of, like, order. There's ideas of aggression. There's ideas of just falling in line, violence. I also, one of the things that I thought was, like, such an achievement of the album and that is going to make it so rewarding to spend time with.

How maximal the sounds are. how there's so much going on, he gets to holistically pack in all the like semi stuff, all the stuff that's kind of out exterior noise that we're constantly dealing with. There are these stresses on him. There is thoughts of war, like combat, conflict, and just, again, it is masculinity, aggression, like, that stuff is always making some type of noise in our head. Right. That's what it feels like to me.

Okay. It might even just be like a feeling exacerbation. I don't know. It's so, yeah. Yeah. It's loaded. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. And then like the devil horns, I just kind of have no clue about it. To be honest. Okay. So I'm, I don't know if other people are also thought that I thought it was like the Gemini rights horns, which initially made me be interested because Steve. Steve Lacey. The Steve Lacey album.

Yeah. Because one thing that's also interesting is Tyler's taking influences. And we're going to, we should do this. Tyler is taking influences from. things that are happening right now. Like contemporary art is actually influencing Tyler's work like in the moment. Do you want to talk about Kendrick? Like,

Oh, right, yeah. We might as well. We need to. Right? Because he's getting inspired and he's actually doing it. Instead of everybody who like is getting inspired by stuff from 20 years ago. Right, right. Yeah, he's not afraid to be inspired by his peers,

which is, definitely feels rare. And that's a masculinity thing too. Right. Yeah, right. Exactly. You don't want to be big dogged by your peers. Yeah. Right.

But yeah, when I was listening, especially like the second third time, I was like, wow, this really reminds me of Mr. Morrell in a lot of ways. And I was just like, am I just so immersed in this album right now? Wink, wink, that I'm just making this connection that's not quite there. But I saw a lot of people also making that connection. And then there's a few interview clips. from maybe last year or two years ago, of Tyler just, you know, waxing poetic about that album and specifically saying that a lot of people don't listen to it

because it's so honest and it feels like Kendrick looking you in your eyes and it gets uncomfortable because it forces you to get as introspective as Kendrick and raw and honest as Kendrick is on the album. And so it feels like Tyler was really excited about, or I don't know, maybe inspired by that. But a battery in his back or something. something like yeah yeah i mean because and especially coming off of um call me if you get lost which is you know for the most there's some moments of vulnerability around this relationship but and i think

like the song wilshire is probably the the epitome of that on that album but you know for the most part that that was a victory lap that was a lot of bravado and machismo and i can see where being doing the total opposite would be very attracted to him creatively as a challenge because obviously he's been more comfortable with vulnerability since Flower Boy showing moments obviously throughout his career, but it really kind of coming to a head at Flower Boy and then kind of continuing from there. But there definitely does feel like this is a different, this is a deeper layer of that vulnerability on this album. And then I think of the mask being a motif that is, I mean, that is one of the main things on Mr. Morrell is this idea of a mask. I don't want to give too much about it away. Why not?

It's very central. And the way that Kendrick uses it is fucking brilliant. I think of the end of Take Your Mask Off and Tyler looking in the mirror. I think of Mr. Morale ending on the song mirror and how that was a huge part of Mr. Morale too. To me, it's not as deep as Kendrick. I think they just have different life experiences. and Kendrick is just able to achieve

an emotional depth that I just don't feel like a lot of artists in the history of music have been able to achieve. So it's not quite on the level to me, but it feels like Tyler's version of it, you know, and very honorable to go back to your point about, yeah, letting your peers inspire you transparently is really cool.

And especially in a genre that everyone is influenced by each other, but they try to hide it. They hide it. They just want to say they're better than each other. Like this is, this was with the thought I was dead when I'm talking about. Like his version of it now is a more evolved. Like,

there is some inspiration happening. This is, we are working together towards something. Like, it's really sick. It's a really good attitude that will act, that actually breeds productivity and creativity. Yeah.

So much to chew on. Mm-hmm. Was there any other, any other? I mean, breaking traditions, are we sad about no double track 10 song? Yeah, so let's lay it out for people that don't know. Traditionally, Tyler has had a double song, so to speak, as his 10th track. Dating back to Project 1, right? I think so, yeah.

He also broke his two-year release cadence on odd years, which has been a thing since day one as well. and he broke the tradition of a Friday release. So I'm glad he is getting himself. I don't know why he was sticking to that. Maybe it was just a rhythm thing. Maybe it was a deadline thing, pushing him to create. But like I said, a few times on the pod,

I'm excited by the Tyler project that took three years. I'm excited by the notion of a Tyler project that takes four years. Yeah. Because I think the extra year shows on this album, I don't really care about the 10 thing I don't know I mean at some point it's like arbitrary track 10 as two songs I don't know if it's not adding to this particular project whatever right right what do you think I thought it was cool that like it serves the function of him talking about like he's breaking traditions a lot on this album he's breaking some patterns some that he doesn't like there's a shift in perspective on his dad there's a shift in perspective on so many of these these things it would make sense for this to be a shift in structure of album like i think it all works together really cool that we're getting this this new phase this is awesome yeah yeah yeah yeah i was excited by it um i'm very impressed yeah i just want to reiterate how impressed i am with this album it was not what i expected but in some ways it's it's better than what i was expecting so i'm

I'm really grateful for another Tyler album. Kendrick, you got to be next. Just the end of the year is approaching. How can you ask for so much from this year? How can you? I know, this year's been great, but come on. You greedy, man. Okay.

Cap it off with a Kendrick album. Like, we're getting a, we're getting a Denzel project. We're getting two West Side Gunn albums. We're getting a Corday project. We got a Dochi album. Like, this album has been, or this year has been. Shout out this 2024. I know.

It's been pretty amazing. but cap it off with a West Coast Kendrick album, please. There you go. All right, well, Cam, thank you for joining, as always. Thank you for having me. This was wonderful. I am working on the next season of Dissect

if you're still listening. It's taking longer than usual, I'll just say. The album is very intense and heavy and deep, and so I want to do it justice. True. So we are. I'm working my best on it, okay? and there might be an added layer to the content that is also taking some time.

So I am working on that. We'll be back for sure, me and Cam in December, to talk about our favorite albums at the year. I wonder what they will be. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I got some other episodes in the clip too, so keep a look on that. And we'll talk to you guys soon. Okay, see you. Yeah, we ain't talking to your dumb ass.

You could be a millionaire still be a bummer ass boy. I've been in a dream. I've been on a team. Don't stop. Okay, look, why I work so hard, my sole profit.