Dissect - Crowning Tyler The Creator's Best Song Ever | Last Song Standing (E8)

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

It all leads up to this. After revisiting Tyler The Creator's entire discography over 7 episodes, Cole and Charles debate their song selections until they crown the last song standing: the single greatest Tyler song, ever. Follow @dissectpodcast on⁠ Instagram⁠,⁠ TikTok⁠, and⁠ Twitter⁠. Hosts: Cole Cuchna & Charles Holmes Producer: Justin Sayles Editor: Kevin Pooler Engineer: Jon Jones Theme Music: Birocratic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everyone, Cole here. Quick message before getting into today's episode. Later this month, Dysect will be celebrating its 10-year anniversary, which honestly is pretty wild to say out loud. And to honor this moment, I thought it'd be fun to do a 10-year anniversary mailback episode. What's a mailbag episode you ask? Well, the concept is pretty simple. You submit questions and I'll record my answers. The questions can, of course, be music-related, but they don't actually have to be. I also like talking about film, literature, life, family, philosophy. Honestly, I'm open to answering any question as long as it's interesting and thought-provoking. Now, to submit a question, just email Dissect Podcast at gmail.com. A standard email is fine, but if you want to get extra fancy, you could also record your question as a voice

memo so I could play it in the actual episode. The deadline to submit a question is Wednesday, August 19th. Again, the deadline is Wednesday, August 19th, and the email is dissect podcast at gmail.com. All right. Thank you guys for listening as always and enjoy today's episode. Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing. I'm Kolkishna. And I'm Charles Holmes. And in this fifth season of Last Song Standing, we are working our way through Tyler the Creator's entire catalog in order to crown the greatest Tyler the Creator song of all time. Today's episode is what we've been working toward all season. Yep. Seven episodes, nine albums. Today's the day, the episode that we crowned, Tyler the Creator's, greatest song of all time.

It's been a journey. It has been a journey. I am tired. If the people don't know just in this past week, I've been to Comic-Con, I've seen Spider-Man. I was at the Odyssey. I'm talking Tyler the Creator. It's this whole episode will just be me going with my heart. I'm not overthinking it.

I'm not, we're not getting to. We did all the leg work to get here. I think we can have a little fun and we can have some feeling. We're definitely going to debate. So later in the episode, we're going to do the World Rumble. So all the nominations that we selected from all seven episodes are going to duke it out. We're going to whittle songs down until we get to a final three. And then we'll whittle down one final song.

But before we get to the World Rumble, we got some things to take care of. Yep. We're going to read, Justin Liz, a little bit is going to reveal the trivia prize. for the trivia winner here, Charles Holmes. I did hear there is a consolation prize as well, right, Justin? There is very much consolation prize. Okay. A little scared about that one.

But then, but before we get there, let's just do a little like little recap, some table setting, yeah. Because a lot of this journey, especially because we went in chronological order, was getting to see in one breath, revisiting an entire catalog, chronologically, and kind of tracing this really upward trajectory and evolution of Tyler as an artist

since the breakthrough of Yonkers all the way to Don't Tap the Glass and whatever's next. So I guess after going through this journey, is there anything that changed about your Tyler fandom, anything that you learned or anything that surprised to you going through this exercise? This has been the wildest season for me

because Tyler is a contemporary, at least generation-wise. Right. And what's always, I think, been difficult for me about Tyler is that we grew up on the same music. So a lot of his inspirations, I'm getting the first wave of it. I grew up on the Neptunes.

I grew up on Stevie Wonder and Charlie Wilson. And I was a child of the internet. So there's been ups and there's been downs. There's been years where I don't listen to Tyler at all. And then stuff like Igor, where I come back and I'm like, oh shit, so much has changed. And through doing the chronological dissection of it for an entire season. And going back to interviews that I've read before, some that I've never listened to,

I just have a, I have a deeper appreciation for the journey. I have a deeper appreciation for what he's going for because I think something that is very, very true about being a black creative, especially in America, is that you're always, there's always battles and wars on multiple fronts and it was really invigorating to see someone like Tyler come on the scene when no one really wanted in there. There was a certain type of rap that was happening during the blog era, seeing him cut through. And then the moment that people feel like they have impegged, he switches up. And I think that upward trajectory that we've been talking about all season does come from

artists that are hard to pin down, that are never going to do the easy thing. and my respect for him just as like a black man in an artist in this world who is constantly pushing against being easily defined and easily labeled. Yeah, just my respect grew. Yeah. I mean, I've always had great respect for Tyler. I think for me, I just came to appreciate just how fully formed a vision he had from day one. And the beauty of him popping off so early is that we got to, as we talked about all season, incrementally see that vision crystallize from raw, rough sketches of a bastard and goblin into something like a chromocopia or Igor, where it's like he's been chasing the same sound, chasing kind of the same visual identity and world building,

but each step along the way better and better and to your point, never compromising his vision. I mean, what I've always admired about Tyler is that 99 out of 100 times, an artist that, that is a prankster and gets famous really young usually fizzles out. Yeah. Flames out. They're on ridiculousness. They're going a different route, right? They're going to, maybe they follow the jackass trajectory more than an artistry trajectory.

And I think what I love about Tyler is that obviously he didn't flame out and he only got better. And that was because of his genuine love and passion for music. Like something we didn't talk about last episode that we probably should about, don't tap the glass. This guy's like nine, 10 albums into his career plus movie scores, Lucy's, all this other,

you know, he still has so much passion for music and you can feel it in an album like don't tap the glass, but he didn't need to release that record. Like commercially, he was on tour. He already had a number one the year prior, but you can feel him just being kind of addicted to making music,

to reinventing himself, to doing something new. He's just like, he embodies Tyler the creator. He is a true creator. And his love of genre and just it's whether it's city pop or G funk or 70s R&B, 90s R&B, house music where he's a lot of artists this far in their career aren't voracious like that. They don't have that appetite anymore. And he still does.

And like I'll go a step further. I do think with Tyler just chasing, like charting the journey of him, how do I even describe it? right now I feel like we need more Tyler's just in terms of he's he never menses his words. He's always been honest. And as the internet and social media has come to take over all portions of our life, I like the fact that Tyler could be the shister on Twitter or the guy who's like talking shit on early records. And it's not that he backs away from that. It's just like, oh, I've changed.

But he's still like, he's like, I don't like this type of way you dress. I don't like this artist, but I love this. And he's always, his hate, speak for someone and I've learned this lesson, is like, I don't want to call it hate, but your hate can be one thing, but you got to also show what you love. And I want more of that from artists.

I don't want the perfectly manicured PR bubble. Like, tell us what you love. Tell us what you're inspired by. Tell us the shit where you're like, know that shit that's happening in the industry is whack. Even if it's something as small as, hey, I want to release my albums on fucking Monday. Why do I have to release my albums on Friday?

Hey, I still want to make music videos. Music videos are really fucking important. He's always balanced the acid with the honey. And I wish we had artists that were as honest as he is. Well, I think that's what's interesting about him now being in his mid-30s is that we are getting the children of Tyler the Creator now. Like I think of Adachi we talked about on Chromacopio, very much being a child of Tyler the Creator. I think of even like a new artist, Larisi,

who just put out a really great debut album that has speaking, has recently spoken interviews that call me if you get lost, was the album that changed his life. Damn. Which is kind of crazy to hear, but also it makes a lot of sense because he was in high school. That was his introduction to Tyler, which is kind of weird to think about,

but that is where we are. I know. That's where we are in life, Charles. But that's what the beautiful thing is, is that he has become a North Star to so many of these up-and-coming artists. This episode is presented by Sierra Nevada. Life's about embracing the haze. What does that mean?

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Hazy Little Thing. Enjoy responsibly. He has become the new Farrell in a lot of way. All right, we don't have to go. You don't think so? Put yourself in the shoes of someone that is younger, though. Are they going to be more likely to be inspired by Tyler or Ferrell at this point? I mean, we all know the answer, but, man, fuck them kids.

They don't know shit. Like, what? See, this is the unkin you coming out. No, nothing was better than my high school experience. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I love Tyler. We did a whole season, but. All right. The beats, the Neptunes?

Wait. I'm just saying, I'm making an analogy that in the same way that Tyler is inspired by Farrell, he has become that figure. And I just don't think that's the likely story of a Tyler, the creator of young, you know, of Yonkers. This is where we will agree. Okay. Now, the on the idea. It really just popped out there. Okay.

Let's see. What else do we want to do before? Before we do era, let's do album. Because I feel like our album might inform the, the era. So let's start with, you. first throughout this journey where at the end of it where are you at ranking your favorite tyler albums i would say the biggest change was chromocopia fell where was it before i probably would have had it for two number two a solid two and i would say there was a part of me that could make a case

for it being his best okay before this exercise i don't feel like that anymore so my rank at this point. And this is more of my favorite. This might change slightly if I was trying to be objective. But in terms of my favorite, I'm going Igor number one, flower boy number two. I thought flower boy would be the album that would go down for like drop a little bit. But maybe it's just like the time of my life when that album came out is when I was starting dissect. It was kind of like, I don't know, that album is just really special to me. So flower boy number two for me. Then chromocopia, then call me if you get lost then don't tap the glass

and that changed too that that climbed over a cherry bomb it's so fun I mean even if it's not a totemic work it's fucking so fun and I if I'm trying to think about the tie of the creator albums I just want to hear I want to put that on over cherry bomb

so cherry bomb next then wolf bastard goblin okay is that a fair list no this is that's a cold list that probably people will agree with your list more than they will with mine because what I sketched it out I was like

oh shit Charles okay mine is you know what I'll start from the bottom oh okay coming in at number nine flower boy what what we're talking about my list we're talking about my list

no what's you're still wrong no we're talking about my list number nine I'm about to leave this fucking building Flowerway is number nine. Number eight is don't tap the glass. Number seven is wolf. Number six is chromocopia. Have you been drinking?

Five is goblin. Four is bastard. Three is cherry bomb. Two is call me if you get lost. Number one is Igor. I wasn't ready for that. I'm not trolling what. We're talking about our individual.

That's a real list. I blanked out. I am blocked out for a second. Give me your top three. Igor, call me if you get lost number three cherry bump. But then four is bastard and five is goblin. Yeah. What?

Charles. This is old Charles coming out. I thought you were grounded, more center, not a troll as much. No, this is not trolling. You really have, you really have goblin over Flower Boy, don't tap the glass and Wolf. We're talking about albums that I would much rather like listen to. and I just, if I'm going to be real, I like the weirdness.

As much as he became a better musician, the production became better, you can take none of that away from him. I just like the raw uncut shit. Just give me the fucking, just give me the dark, crunchy Tyler off the fucking leash. I thought,

I was over here thinking you're a change man this season. I am a changed man. All right. What's your fucking list, Justin? I think mine's pretty standard after that. I will also start from the bottom and I go Goblin number nine. Okay, solid. Bastard number eight.

Cherry bomb number seven. Don't tap the glass number six. Wolf number five, flower boy number four. Chromacopia. Call me if you get lost number two. Number one, Igor. Respectable. Such a respectable list.

All right. It is very. it's very ironic that on a Tyler the Creator season where we are championing people being themselves as speaking their opinion and standing on it you guys are trying to make me join the consensus maybe I'm the one that needs to grow maybe I need to open my mind and just let it let it be what it be like shit like come on this is the Dow speaking wow you just here's the thing I was shitting on your list I'm like hey that's your list that's cool That's cool.

Damn. So what's your favorite Tyler era though? Yeah, in terms of like persona, world building aesthetically, I mean, I love the don't tap the glass aesthetic. Great. It's so cool. I love the shout out to Ludacris with the big, the big, uh, fist. He was saying that like that wasn't as inspired by ludicrous as people would thought,

but I was like, come on, Tyler, come on. He had to have known. Even if it didn't start there, I mean, it's in the, he did say it's kind of. the DNA. Yeah, right. Same with the all red, L.L. Cool J. You know, the Kangle had. And anyways, okay, I love that aesthetic. Not to be basic, though, I think it is Igor. It is Igor. That's why I wanted to do our albums first, because I do think Igor from a conceptual level, the music, the lyrics, it's just the most potent, perfect package. Yeah, it really is. I mean,

When I'm thinking of Tyler's personas, Igor is just the most iconic. Maybe it's because he did transform so much, the blonde wig and the contrast and the pink suit. The videos, the performances. It's just everything to a T is perfect. I also do love the call me if you get lost era of just like talking his shit.

Yeah. The fucking chain. The chain. The fucking hat. Justin, you got a favorite era or aesthetic? I do like the look of chromocopia a lot. do really, like in terms of aesthetic.

Right. Yeah, I don't know. It was funny because last episode we were talking about sorry not sorry and like just looking at all those, all the different Tyler's lined up next to each other. And it's like, they're just also recognizable. But like, yeah. No one's picking the cherry bomb fucking bubble gum. Like cherry bomb, wait, did I put cherry bomb at number three?

I love cherry bomb. I'm just saying aesthetically. which cherry bomb cover do we prefer I like the I like the pissing pants I like the pissing pants the pissing pants the pissing pants that's fucking shit so sick

um okay question for you guys though yes where does Ty so where do we think Tyler's going to go next in his career and where do we personally want to see him go because I think we both

all three of us came to the consensus that Chromacopia while a great album phenomenally produced his most personal. I don't know if it's a dead end as much as a, yeah, where does he go from here? Can he make another tire of the creator album?

And is it going to feel like a continued ascension? Is it going to feel like a flatline where we know it's going to be quality music? That's just a given at this point in his career. But is it going to continue this ever-evolving artistry that we've been tracking all season? because I'll start with my opinion. I want to hear Tyler's like true Yeezus moment. And maybe that's not like a distorted whatever industrial style album that a Yeezus is.

But he's like floated the idea of maybe one day making a full jazz album or I like, I want to see the full Tyler pivot where maybe it is not his most successful album or commercially appealing, but it's the one where he's just like fuck, fuck it. Let me just try something so different. because I think that's in him, but I don't think we've ever gotten the fully committed, you know, version of that.

Does it make sense? No, that makes perfect sense. I think we're in a similar, we're in a similar headspace. I want him to do a stripped out album. I actually don't want a character. I don't actually want a full concept in a full world.

He kind of got there with don't tap the glass in terms of just like the music is, just what the music is, is 10 tracks. I would like a 10 track Tyler album, where he's not so over-reliant on the aesthetic and the world building because sometimes I'm like, damn. You like those Lucy's. I like the Lucy's. I just, I like that feeling, even though Mr. Morale was not that record in terms of like Mr.

Rale is very overstuffed. When I look at that cover, like, what's Tyler's version of that? What's Tyler's version of just like, I'm alone? This is me. It's not about the clothes. It's not about the mask. It's not about everything that I've been building. It's just about this moment in time.

And we're kind of even, I would like to hear maybe a lot of his singing voice stripped of the pitching it up or like adding effects. Tyler the creator acoustic album is. Kind of, yeah. And I don't even mean acoustic in terms of just like strumming on a guitar. But I know, yeah. Like an unplugged or almost like.

I kind of do just want an unplugged Tyler album. What does that sound like? Yeah. interesting. Justin, do you have any anywhere you'd personally like to see Tyler go next? Maybe that NADLIB album. Oh, yeah. That would also.

A non-Tyler produced album is interesting to me. Ooh, you know what I? All right. Two-answer, two-fold. And I know they're beefing. A Neptune's produced Tyler record would be crazy. You don't allow Tyler to touch the boards.

He's just rapping and he's singing. but if we could reunite Farrell and Chad and really just be like, imagine like the treatment that Farrell gave clips. The clips to Tyler. Just like, I'm really producing you, Tyler. You are not the producer. You are the rapper and the singer. And I'm just keeping tight.

Yeah. I mean, but the thing with Tyler is like, you know, he's going to do something that unexpected. So, you know, we have our personal preferences, but also respect the artist. I trust where he's going to go next. I'm always excited to where. Do we want him to take more time on his next album too?

Do we think the three year, four year gap is more where the cadence should be now, or do we want the continual output? I think he has earned it. And personally, as a listener, I would love him to take way more time. Like, if Tyler, I would, at this point, this is Sacral Ages, I would be more interested in seeing Tyler, like, direct a pilot of a TV show or do a movie just because, yeah, he's. He's just so talented in so many ways. I'm just like, yo, take time with, and not saying he wasn't taking time before, but weirdly, I think Drake and him sometimes have a similar problem where they're so, they release so much music.

Sometimes it's very, I think that's what happened with Chromacopi and don't tap the glass for me, where it was like, back to back, it's, it's hard to really like figure out what it is in the moment. So I would love, if he takes a five year gap, I don't give a fuck. Yeah, it's also crazy to think how, like, his. legacy is kind of like cemented already. At this point, I feel like he could just do whatever. You can do whatever.

And yeah, and he's only 35 or whatever. Like, that's crazy. It's crazy how much he's accomplished so far. Okay, so I think it's time to move on. We usually do the album trivia here. We got no trivia. Charles, congratulations. You won this year's trivia tournament.

It is time for Justin to reveal the prize. Okay. Last year we had a cameo, a couple cameos. It looks like we have something physical this year. We have physical things. So, okay, this was very vexing. I wanted to, I was trying to think of the things we associate most with Tyler, and I immediately went back to Supreme, okay?

Okay. But then I started thinking, like, what can Spotify actually allow me to expense in this? And what can, if Cole were to win, could he get on the plane? So that immediately ruled out things like pocket knives and fire extinguishers, which was one of the more affordable items that I would have been willing to take the hit on if Spotify would an extension. But I started being like, maybe I'll put together like a little gift basket of a bunch of dumb, supreme things.

And I started ordering some things, but I hit a snafu very early. and I received an email from an eBay seller two weeks ago saying hello thank you for your order however when I went to package up the box of supreme Ziploc bags I realized that I could not find them I asked my high school age son about them and he let me know that he had used them at school several months ago and they're no longer available hell yeah I am so sorry for the inconvenience from sake of my blah blah blah I'm you have full refund.

Anyways, I just want to say with that email, with that message from that seller, we are like losing, the fact that teenagers are just like, oh, this Supreme shit, I'm just going to use this Supreme shit. So I was left with the one thing that I did order because I boarded this plan,

and then I was talking to my partner, Nicole, about it, and she's like, this is a terrible gift. You can't do this. And what it was, was Supreme Morios. Whoa. But she's like, you can't just do that for the gift for the winner.

So last night, she helped me to make a chain. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I need it. That actually matches your fit today, too. Oh, man. Chaining day. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Let me wear. Justin, you're right. Nicole definitely saved this gift. Hell yeah. This gift. She absolutely saved this gift. and we and we still have a pack left over with three cookies in it to split don't know what year they're from but you know what i supreme damn they only gave you three supreme is fucking

it's boutique man it's limited so we so that's what we got okay yeah man thank you just it consolation prize okay also my partner Nicole who's really maybe should be in my seat if she's doing much um a few months ago she is out to lunch with her mother and all of a sudden she's like, I want to take a picture of you. I want to take a picture of you. And Nicole's like, what the fuck you're talking about? You want to take a picture of me?

So she looks at the picture and she doesn't take a picture of Nicole. What you see is Tyler the creator in the background who had been eating lunch basically a table away from them. Hell yeah. And had not had just not been paying attention to them at all, obviously, because why would he? And the second the phone goes up to take the picture, throws up a piece sign in front of his face. He is like on the lookout for people taking photos. He knew. Let me see. I want to see this photo. This is really funny. What a smart guy. Hell yeah. Where were you all at? I don't want

to shout that out in case he wants to go back there. Oh, yeah. Damn, is that is that what you're call it? Is that a voice? Oh, Lionel? Is it? Line only in right next to him. It looks like it. Oh yeah, it could be. Hell yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Justin. Do we want to eat the Supreme Cookies or do we want to?

I don't want red cookie dust. Maybe that's the finale to the finale. Okay. Hell yeah. Thank you. Quiz me if you get lost. Thank you, Justin. Great, great gifts.

Unexpected. I like it. Although I still am missing the Frank Ocean Cockering. Yeah. I wish that actually paid to fruit. because I did win that one. So, okay. With all that out of the way,

should we get to the Royal Rumble? Let's take a quick break. Okay. We could take a break and then it's showdown. Hell yeah. This episode is brought to you by Sierra Nevada Hazy Little Thing. If you saw the band when they played at the bar or stopped mid-festival to look at the stars,

then you're ready to embrace the haze with hazy little thing. Citricy, smooth, and easy to drink. It pairs with nights that don't. need a script. Brewed with the purest ingredients for finest quality. There's a reason it's America's best-selling hazy IPA. Embrace the haze with Sierra Nevada hazy little thing. Enjoy responsibly. All right. We are back. It is the what we're building to all seven episodes. It is the Royal Rumble. This is when all the songs that we selected off of the nine full-length projects, plus a loosey each, are going to duke it out. Yep. Elimination style. So,

how this would work. And we'll recap our lists in just a second. But you're going to kind of take aim at my list. I'm going to kind of take aim at your list. And we're going to try to kind of eliminate some of the weaker songs that we see on each other's list first. If we want to try to stump for one that maybe you target one of mine, I'm like, no, that's got to stay. I'll try to make my case and see if I can persuade you. We're going to whittle it down, whittle it down.

We'll get a top three. And then we're going to will it down to the last longstanding. So before we recap our list, I wanted to go over the premise of this exercise, which has always been from day one, how we describe it. If an alien comes down to earth, what's the one song you would give an alien to explain or represent, in this case, Tyler of the Creator? Yep. And so I wanted to ask you guys, what do we think defines Tyler the Creator as an artist? What do you think are the most important features to showcase in a single song that we are giving to? to this hypothetical alien.

So right now in Tyler's career, there has to be rapping or to me. Okay. Not always, but that's going to be, but there also has to be a melodic singing element. That's the interesting part because I'm on the same page because I think, I think just a rapping song by default is kind of like doesn't have a chance. It's kind of what. So the song doesn't have to have rapping, but it has to have some type of hip hop element, but there also has to be a melodic element.

I think production-wise, it needs to be ambitious. The thing that has marked his career has been a layer of constantly getting better, his love of bridges, his love of melody and chords. That needs to be there. I also, how do I even put this? We need to find an era of Tyler that speaks to all the eras, in my opinion. Yeah. Like going too early is only going to speak to kind of one layer of his personality. And I think maybe some of his later work where he's kind of siloed some of the shit will also be a little bit difficult. So we have to find that sweet spot in the middle. Okay. I'm 100% on the same page. Yeah, because era, I have we're down world building, but I think era is the same in terms of like something that represents a concept or a character could be in there. The only other thing I'd add, well, two other things, some element of songwriting.

I think what Tyler doesn't get enough credit for is his ability to write a great hook. Also, the curation production side of him where he's selecting features could be in there. I'm not, you know, 100% committed to this, but that could be another element of showing, displaying his kind of palette of artistry is selecting a Dochi, selecting Charlie Wilson, a Cardi on a song you wouldn't expect. there could be that element there because I think that's one of his strengths. But even putting together this list, or maybe more than any other season of this show, we have to cover a lot of bases in one song. Because we're in like an outcast,

we did outcast, we did Frank, we did Kendrick. It's like those artists are a little bit easier to pin down this. There's not as many facets, I would say as a Tyler. Because one thing again, Tyler doesn't get enough credit for.

He's a true hip-hop singer-songwriter. Yeah. He's made all his own. beats from day one, everyone's, every one of his records are self-produced. He's writing every single part that we hear in the record, which is a short list in the history of hip-hop to be, you know what I mean? So I want to honor that. So with that being said, let's go ahead and recap our list one final time before we start eliminating. I got bastard title track, she, answer, cherry bomb title track, garden shed, new magic wand, lumberjack, like him, sugar on

my tongue and sorry, not sorry. And I have French, yonkers, Bimmer, Buffalo, Hootap Boy, Gone, Gone, Thank You, Lemonhead, Darling Eye, Suckafree, what the fuck right now? And Justin's pick? Coach, his challenge was an earthquake. Okay. This is the most, I think the most songs we ever had in a finale. Yep.

I don't want to belabor some of what I think all of us and the listeners included are going to be easy eliminations. So pick two songs off of my list. that you don't think has any chance in this exercise. And I'm just going to give you two freebies to just eliminate. These are songs, we like all these songs. Me going at these first is not because I dislike these songs the most. It's more so for what we were talking about.

It might not have all of the criteria. Yeah. So right off top, I think sugar on my tongue is one where great song, but it's going to be difficult to really bring that into the Royal Rumm. Then Cherry Bomb as well, I love the Cherry Bomb title track. But for an album that's very divisive, even if it's like my third favorite Tyler album, it's come on.

Yeah, you know, is that, am I being an asshole? No, I think that I'm not even going to push back at all. I think that's, that's perfectly fair. Could I do the same thing for your list? Let's go. Okay. I think Bimmerd goes just because of the clunkiness of, it's a three song sweet. We're pulling one song off of.

it. I'm not mad. Okay. But you remember me and my Bima. And let me just take Buffalo too. Nothing off Cherry Bomb was going to win. As much as we, I came to love that album and you've loved it since day one. I don't think it's, uh, it's coming off of Cherry Bomb. So looking at your list now, ooh, all right. Let's get spicy. Let's not, let's not even belabor the point. Can you have, Bastard title track and Like Him both on here, where like him does what Bastard does, but better, more musically. I love the song Bastard. Yeah. I love it.

It's just, it's early Tyler. He's figuring himself out. Am I making any sense? Where it's like you can't have two versions of that are doing us very similar. Yeah. They make a great pairing. And I actually like the fact that they both ended up on my list because you could tell. the story of Tyler the Creator essentially between these two songs emotionally, I think.

But yeah, I have no, bastard title track is not going to. And then, like, I don't want to kick the song off too early because I think we all personally love Lumberjack. I love the song Lumberjack because it is a song that is, it's rapping. It's him like proving that like dog, I got bars. And rapping on someone else's beat. Can it? Yeah. Can we really take it that far?

Yeah. I'm not pushing back on that either. All right. What are the next two that you're? Well, I'm going to go French. Just because you have Yonkers and I'm not going to push back on Yonkers yet. Because if we're going to have one song that's going to represent early Tyler that has a shot of making it. In the top three, Yonkers is going to be the one just because of the cultural.

I mean, that is a historic song. Yeah. In the history of hip-hop or even popular music, that's a historical, that's a moment in music history. I wish French could have gone farther, but I knew it's just, you're going to, nothing off bastard really was going to make it. Yeah. And I think for the same reason that you singled out Lumberjack, I'm going to single out Lemonhead. Yeah. Call me if you got lost is a weird record like that.

We talked about a little bit on that episode where it's like, it's a little hard to pluck a single song that is going to be representative of everything. I think if we're going to do that, it'd be more something like sweet. I thought you could, you know, wanted to dance. But call me if you get lost is more. It's, it's an album where the success of it is the project. It is the full, it is the fact that he's doing against a gross mix tape. Right. He is going back to kind of the source.

But if you, to your point, if you take any one song off of it, it's very, very difficult. Yeah. For it to fully explain everything that's great about Tyler. Okay. Now, so this is now, well, I guess I still have, I think, some, some too obvious ones that probably could go. All right. I'm going back to your list. I'm going early Tyler.

There's no way she is going to make it. There's just no. I know a lot of people love she. But Frank makes that song. And if we're talking about how much better Tyler throughout his career got as a vocalist, as a singer, as an R&B producer, she definitely. does tell a very important story, but it's not, he's not fully fleshed out yet. Okay, I'm not pushing back on that. Let me go for yours. Oh, what the fuck right now? Sorry, that's easy. Yeah. I had to get it on the board. Yeah, okay. Do another one. Do another one.

Because there's a couple on this list where I'm like, there's no, I can't make an argument for it. I mean, same thing you said about sugar on my tongue. I'm going to say about sucker free. Although I think I came to like that song the most off to the album. And I do love what it the story it tells about Tyler and him tapping into his roots and all that. But in this exercise, I don't think it exemplifies enough of the full breadth of what makes him a great artist. So agreed. So this is the last one off your list that I think it can be, it's like an easy decision answer. Not because it's a bad song, just because right now, if we take answer off, you have Garden Shed, new magic wand like him. Sorry, not sorry. Those are ones we're going to have to argue about.

Yeah. I agree with that. that. So let me, I'm eliminating these off of my list. And now let's see if I can get yours down to a fair four like mine. So you have yonkers, who that boy, gone, gone, thank you, and darling I. One, two, three. Oh, you already have four. You're already down to four. So maybe this is where the real kind of debates start to happen. I'm looking at your list and who that boy, I can edit my own list. I love who that. That boy. In this exercise, one dimensional.

It's a one dimensional. Not one dimensional records are fine. That is not anything about. We're not really talking about the quality of these records. We're more so if an alien comes to earth, what is most representative? And that's a hip hop song. And Tyler has proven that while he is a hip hop artist to his core, there's so many more musical layers. Who that boy does not really.

Yeah. The only thing that has, I would say, has that could make a case is the intro that adds a layer to that song. But it's not, like I try to track, that's not the fully realized Tyler orchestration. That was his first attempts at something like that, but he gets better at that. So it's not exactly exemplary. So yeah, I think let's eliminate who dat boy. Is there anyone on my list that is standing out like a who dat boy to you?

Because right now, there's one that I'm not going to go as hard for on my list, but I think everything else I'm going to go pretty hard for. So I know it's a fan favorite. I know it's a fan favorite. But is sorry not sorry from a production standpoint? Does it remind you enough about what makes Tyler iconic as a producer? You know, the weird sense, the crazy bridges bringing in just like the kaleidoscope, colorful aspect. I'm not talking about the lyrics. The lyrics are great, but it's not, like,

you would have thought Tyler is like a boom bap rapper if you just listen to. Sorry Not Sorry. Yeah, I mean, that was the weaker one in my mind on my list in this exercise. That's the thing. We have to keep in mind, we're trying to find one song that is representing the most of Tyler's, you know, breath. And sorry, not sorry, in this almost a similar way, but different. than Who That Boy is a little one-dimensional. Although I think it's a stronger song than Who That Boy, but because we do get that build-up, we get the voice changes.

It's super dynamic for a sample-based song, and I think it has some of his best rapping in his career. However, yeah, to your point, I am missing that bridge. I am missing the chord progression that Tyler himself wrote, which I think is very important in this exercise, and him sampling this song, and actually not building on it as much. much as he typically does with this sampled. This is more or less a straightforward sampled-based

song. That alone in this exercise eliminates it for me. Yeah. Sorry, guys. We know you're pulling for sorry, not sorry. All right. So we... We're each down to three and earthquake. I still feel like is one of the stronger ones on this board still. So I'm not going at earthquake yet. All right. Let's not go to Igor yet. I will take one off my list that I think is the weakest one still on my list. I love darling eye. I knew you're gone there. I love darling guy. This is tough.

I, a Tyler creator song about the challenges of monogamy is not going to be, I don't think like textually. Yeah. Is as representative of what makes him great. That doesn't mean like it as a subject is not worthy of having a song around you. You're just trying to think about like, well, when you think about the things that make Tyler special, is a like, a monogamy song really. going to be, I don't know. That is, yeah, in this exercise, that is, but man, you can so make a case for exemplifying

production-wise, everything that makes them special, songwriting, chord progression. It has a lot of the elements that I would want to be represented. And I think it's, as we talked about. It's a Tyler song I've sung the most this, like, after listening to Crow McCopoeia, it's just, and it speaks to him as a pop writer, just being like, oh, shit, I cannot. That in Zuckerfrey. I was like, I cannot get these songs out of my. head. It's so fun. But I do, it's just, I don't know. Okay, I agree. That's the one. So, um,

you have garden shed, new magic wand like him. What? Should we check, check in with Justin real quick? Have we done anything egregious to this point as we narrowed down our list to now six songs? We have guarded shed, new magic wand, like him, yonkers, gone, thank you, and earthquake left. Is it three from Igor left? I kind of had a feeling that's, Igor is going to be. So I'm going to ask, If we look at your list. My list. Oh, I guess I do have three songs. Garden Shed, New Magic Juan, like him.

Oh, man. I do think it's a conversation now between Garden Shed and Like Him. And I don't know. I want to see you make the case for which one you feel stronger about before I chime in. Okay. Well, Justin, did you answer the question, though, before I do that, did anything egregious yet? I don't think that the winner was going to come out of anything that's been cut. egregious. You know, I mean, some of these songs go kind of tossed off a little more casually than I would have,

I would have liked to see, but I don't think that they were going to be the winners anyway. I think that's what we're trying to do here. Let's get to the meet. If we eliminated your favorite song early, we're sorry. But, okay, this is a great debate because like him and Garden Shed are representing, I think, the same thing kind of in his discography. It's two pillars of Tyler's career. It is the familial aspect. It is when we, the reason he picked bastard, we, in the same way that Eminem's mom looms large, Tyler's father looms large. So we have like him. And then we have garden shed that is about his sexuality. And from the beginning, the thing that got him in trouble was the fact that like he was so cavalier. He said whatever he wanted to.

When you get to a moment like garden shed and it all kind of makes sense. And it leads him. into the second half of his career. I don't think either of us are going to make a judgment on. Both of those are artistically important. They are on the same level. So I think we need to talk about the music. Which one is a better song that encapsulates Tyler? And I have my pick.

Oh, interesting. If I'm going technically, I love Garden Shed. I think the structure of it is super interesting. I love the fact that you can feel trepidation in the music itself. I love how he builds to the single rap verse where he does a lot of that emotional revelation. I love the concept of Garden Shed tying into this broader concept of Flower Boy and nature, Garden Shed representing a kind of closet. But if I'm thinking technically production-wise, like him is like one of his best

produce songs, I think. Like him to me is way more interesting. It's way more daring. Even if I don't necessarily like all the vocals on like him, it is just a more interesting song. Now, it's also a thing where, yeah,

even if you don't like the vocals, they serve a thematic and emotional purpose. Agreed. Garden shed, he offloads a lot of that to Estelle, you know? Or is it Estelle? Yeah. Yeah. And that plays into the trepidation where he's not ready to speak, but like him as a fully formed singer-songwriter kind of really classically sound song, which I think is important in this exercise. It also does the thing that I try to highlight in the episode of a great scriptwriter or narrative storyteller being able to resolve so many things in one stroke.

you know, resolving the arc of himself, his mother, and his father, doing it from a perspective that is not the obvious perspective singing to his mom about his dad. It has all the, like, the depth and layers that you'd want that we talked about last episode about Raymond Carver. You know what I mean? It has that kind of, um, that depth to it. And so, I can work in a vacuum where it, it's, it's a song that builds on the story. of Tyler, whereas like Garden Shed, you kind of get what he's getting at, whether you are going back to some of the homophobic lyrics, the misogyny, all of that. Whereas with like him, to me, why it land so well is like, if you've been around since bastard and you've been from the start,

him having this conversation with his mom. Yeah. Just hits a lot harder. I think, I don't see the amount as different in that respect. I think Garden Shed carries the way. of his past in the same way that like him does. I think like him is a better executed and a heavier emotional punch. And it's it's it displays more of the mature Tyler than a Flower Boy. Flower Boy to me is still him getting there in some respects where like him is just like that entire album is kind of Tyler at the top of his game. So I'm going to advocate for like him over Garden Shed. Is that fair? I would advocate for Garden Shed. But I will leave it up to you.

This is my present to you. If you feel like Like Him is the one you can argue more for as we whittle this down. Like go with like him. It's also his third biggest song, which I actually think is in this exercise kind of important that a song like that with those vocals from Tyler the creator is going to wind up one of it as one of the biggest songs in his catalog. That's kind of crazy. Then choose like him. Okay. I'm going to like him.

So we both have two songs now. You have like him, new Magic Juan. I have Yonkers gone, gone, thank you. And Justin has Earthquake. So what we really need to do, we can only take three into the finale. We got to get, so we got to eliminate two? All right, we're going to have to eliminate one Igor song. We can't take three Eeyor songs.

That's true. That's true. Can I eliminate Earthquake? Oh. Killing your own baby. I was about to stick off the earthquake. You know what? And we don't have to belate. I want to hear why you want to eliminate it. I love the song and I think it's like one of the most perfectly crapped pop songs in his discography.

And Charles, you think that the Cardiverse on there is the second coming of Cinematic. It's amazing. It's great. It's great. It's a fantastic song. But I think Gone Gone Thank You is would have been my pick. I was kind of expecting that was where I was going to have to go in that episode, and I would have written for that. I think that is, to me, to me, that's my personal pick. I don't know if it's going to win the exercise, but that's my personal pick in this whole thing, so I would hate to see that get eliminated early. New Magic Wand is something that I just find growing on me. I would also point out that we should probably give a couple extra seconds of thought to New Magic Wand before we were to eliminate something like that, considering when a couple years ago

Tyler did his own bracket of his own songs. Yeah. And he picked New Magic Juan as his best song in his whole catalog. And that was Post-Ego, which I, last night I DM Tyler. Not that he would talk at all. But I was like, on the off chance he would see this because he has commented on some of our videos from this series. I asked him, is New Magic Juan, you're still your favorite? I got no response.

But I was thinking like that because, yeah, I do think there's something, you know, that, To me, when, I mean, you know, the artist, in this kind of exercise, sometimes you're too close to your own work and maybe you can't zoom out. But I do think giving New Magic Wand a second glance with that perspective. Like, why would Tyler think that is his best song ever warrants some consideration? So let me ask you, though, I'm going to, I don't want Gone Gone Thank you eliminated. I'm just going to say that. So to me, it's between New Magic Wand and Earthquake. I'm going to be so real.

I like Earthquake way more than I like New Magic Wand, but there's no way that we are picking Earthquake as his greatest song. Why not? Such a basic. It's just, no. No, no.

Really? Am I going to be the one that advocates for Earthquake? No, no, I like Earthquake is one of my, it's a top five Tyler the Creator's song. There's a reason it's gotten this far, but we've talked too much about what makes Tyler special.

And Earthquake to me, on a technical level is perfect. It's a perfect pop song. But does it reach the lyrical thematic depths that we need it to that is representative of kind of where Tyler has gotten to in his career? Well, I would say the same thing about if we're going theme is New Magic Rwand really the song. That's kind of a wash to me thematically between those two. And I think earthquake, here's the case I would make for Earthquake, was not expecting to have to do this. But like I pointed out on the episode, that song is weird.

It is a weird hit song. And when you see him come out at the pop out and people are screaming it, people loving such a weird song where Tyler's has scratch vocals, he's singing out of tune. He's singing in a register that does not make sense for his voice. Of course, he's patting it with some Charlie Wilson in there. But it is like, to me, it is very representative, Tyler, because how weird it is and how successful it got.

Because it was rejected by a Bieber, because it was rejected by Rihanna. And yet to his own vision, to the credit of his own, this is good. I'm going to prove everyone wrong. I'm going to prove I belong in these conversations, even though I used to be a prankster.

No, this is a hit song and let me prove it to you, even if my shitty voice is the thing that does it. And to be his biggest song with the most, you know, billions of streams at this point, to me, it's such an anomaly in pop music.

Like, I'm kind of riding it for, I'm kind of riding for it. I love earthquake, but to me, earthquake and yonkers are going to have the same problem, which is, are we basic bitches? Us doing this entire fucking exercise to be like, it's either yonkers or earthquake, no. Well, yonkers, do you want to have the yonkers conversation now? I think yonkers is still the one. I think yonkers is a perfect song. I think the opening line, I'm a fucking walking paradox. I caught it.

Yeah. Just genius. The video, the moment. I think Yonkers suffers from the same thing as Earthquake, which is like, this is usually just me. As much as I love pop hits, an artist's like biggest moment or cultural moment to me is rarely the one that is the most artistically fulfilling. Earthquake Yonkers, I love these records.

If it was just me, I'm just like, put on earthquake. Fuck you. Yeah. But we did not go through the season long journey to pick earthquake or yonkers. But we're talking final three. So let's just not even think about if any of these songs. I'll give you what I think should be in the final three, which is the best debates that we could have. Okay.

Gone gone, gone. Thank you. I feel like is it. That's a lock. Can we just call that a lock? That's a lock. That's a lock. Justin, that's a lock.

That's a lock. Okay. I think what we're really saying now is that, we got to choose between new magic wand and earthquake. I personally would pick earthquake. I think fans would pick new magic wand. Does that mean, does that mean we can lock like him into the finale?

If we're trying to- Like him isn't a record, I don't like like him as much as you do, but I do think that we have to have the conversation about it. Okay. So Gong, gone, thank you like him

yonkers and well okay I guess we can have a final four if we want do you think yonkers should be taken into the finale or no should we decide between yonkers and earthquake is that a better conversation

if you guys feel like new magic wand should be in that conversation so earthquake and yon earthquake is a better song it just technically it's a better song production wise it's a better song

it shows Tyler's growth Yonkers. Does the cultural moment of Yonkers loom so large that it has to be in consideration? Is that the main selling point of a Yonkers? Because I could tear Yonkers apart technically. And this is what I mean. Like sometimes you can't think with your head. Sometimes you've got to think with your heart.

Even though technically Yonkers is not the most, isn't the best Tyler would become. If you put on those two songs, Earthquake is great. But like, there's Michael Jackson songs that are greater. There are Justin Bieber songs that are greater. Like, it is, it is Tyler showing that he can be a pop artist in that same way, which is why in this exercise, I would ding it. Whereas with Yonkers, that's only a song Tyler, the creator could make. But I would just go back, not even fully formed Tyler.

I would just say, like, Yonkers is, I guess, I don't know, it's him making a joke about, you know, East Coast like he I don't know there's just something but that's Tyler though I know it doesn't that's why I stuttered because I was like okay that you could actually point that to his favor but it's not to me you can represent a moment in history with Yonkers to an alien but like that does not even come close to showcasing anything about Tyler the creator that I'd want showcase yes it's it's a moment in history yes he's rapping really well yes like the beat serves the function of a song like that. Yes, it does have iconic music video. It has a lot of

things in its favor. But in this exercise specifically, it has no chord progressions, no bridges, no melody, conceptually, just kind of whatever. I mean, it's missing so many elements that

I just don't think it could. But it's just, it speaks to that thing where it's like even as critics as we talk about the chord progression, and everything that's influenced him and him becoming a better melodic artist, there is something about that first punch. There is something that is so pure about a young artist giving it to you unfiltered. And I don't always like that.

It's like that becomes lesser, the more technically gifted they become. Because I'm just like, yeah, well, we can talk about technically gifted. If I put on yonkers right now, people would, there's just something about it. There's something about the video that it's like, Like, you cannot, you could tell the story of Tyler Creator's career without earthquake. You could not tell the story about his career without Yonkers. Can I weigh in here? Yeah, definitely.

I think, so a couple years ago with The Ringer, we did Best Rap Songs of the 2010s. And you tried to limit entry, try not to have too many entries from different artists. Yonkers was the Tyler pick. I think that makes a lot of sense in there, given the moment. given what I represented for odd future, for his career, just what that was, this seismic shift, announcing him and odd future, et cetera, et cetera. Seeing it on that list may sense to me.

If I opened up a list of best Tyler songs and I see Yonkers number one, I'm kind of like, what are we doing here? Yeah. I think that two things can be true, right? And I think it's a top five Tyler song. I could be honest. I love the song.

I was listening to it this morning and I was like, fuck should this just win because it just when it hits and god and of course the video and everything everything about it yeah but we're trying unless i'm mistaken trying to get to a song that we feel is like captures the essence of him as an artist and i think it's hard to go back to something he made when he was a teenager yeah and if he was still the artist he was when he was a teenager we probably wouldn't be making this season yeah that's a good point I'm cool going with Earthquake

I'm I can't believe I'm the one advocating for it but it sounds like are you pushing for Earthquake in this conversation too you want to be the tiebreaker If we're picking If we're choosing between Earthquake and Yonkers

God It does feel impossible But let's score Earthquake You cool? Okay Final four Earthquake New Magic 1

Like him Gone Gone Gone Th Thank you. We good with this? I'm good with it. Is it too Igor heavy? That's the only other case we can make. It is very Igor heavy.

So I'm just going to start it off. Get New Magic Juan out of here. Everything you just said about Earthquake I'm going to use against you. Earthquake is a better record than New Magic One. Oh, you're flipping now. Everything you just said about earthquake, new Magic Juan is cool. It's cool. It's cool.

Tyler has better like I'm going to fucking destroy your. ear drum records. I know people love new magic wand. I know. But if we're talking about dynamics in terms of just like everything that makes them special, I feel like, can it be new magic wand,

can it really be new magic wand? So sick. Let's get to the big part though. Got a nice bridge. And then a big, big pop at the end. I like new magic wand. I just don't know if you can't understand. I'm a hawk in the chest

I need to pick off right talking a little. Can't be in a picture if you got no frame. I like new magic wand. I just don't know if. Let me just do the quick back to back. Yeah. Well, let's just get to this part. Dog.

If I'm being true to myself in this moment, why is earthquake just hitting me so hard right now? And this is, I don't want the listeners to be like, Charles just doesn't like, no, no, no, I like New Magic Juan, but you want to know what I think it is. As someone who likes that version of Tyler, New Magic Juan, Who that boy, just in your face, blah, those records to me can be a little one note. Earthquake just takes you on a journey. Like, and so does New Magic Juan, but there's a difference of just something that lush, that velvety, that feeling, that's eager to me. me. I really came into the beginning. This is maybe the biggest twist of the season for me. Because I, if there was going to be one song that I was going to be gunning for in the beginning, this was my thought process. I thought I'd be gunning really hard for New Magic One. And if I'm just being true to myself and being honest and not trying to speak for the audience,

my reverence for New Magic One, which is still a top, at least top 10, if not top five, Tyler the creator song for me personally. I've, other songs have grown more on me. And this one, New Magic Wand has taken a slight little ding. I wouldn't even say ding. It's just other songs climbed over it. Also,

we're talking about the exercise. This is not, a lot of this is we are trying to make a song that is just like, it's not just our favorite Tyler creator song. It's the one that encapsulates them the most. It might be, am I not making too much of a case for New Magic Wand, Justin?

Should I be rocking harder for this song? I think I think this might be where a new magic wand gets off. Okay. It got far, it got final four. Here's the thing, I would have picked new magic wand over like him.

But we can't have three Igor songs. I mean, like him. Okay, so in theory, we can, let's just eliminate new magic wand and see how it feels.

We got to have Earthquake, gone, gone, thank you, and like him. we have eliminated the aspect of Tyler that you like most, which is that crunchy, because we are now left with more emotional songs, more melodic songs with some rapping.

Like him doesn't have any rapping in it. Gongon has kind of everything, and Earthquake has singing and rapping, but not rapping from Tyler, has rapping from Cardi, but it has the feature curation aspect that I really like. So I don't know. I mean, I know you guys are probably going to say like him as the weaker link here.

And I guess the question is should the final three have new magic wand or like him? Or do we open up the conversation? Is it, are we ready to have the gone, gone thank you conversation that I think we're all maybe circling? And I don't, man, the listeners could probably hear it. I've been waiting to have the conversation. Gone, gone, thank you. the one to beat. It is one of his best beats. One of the production is so lush. It has that thing that we love with Tyler where a lot of artists struggle to make multi-layered tracks that are divided.

So it gives you that Tyler where he can take you on a journey. You think you're here. You're over here. Textually, it's such a deep record. I con gone and thank you is the one to be. So here's what I think Gone Gone Has for it, and thank you. I don't know if there is another song that represents so much about Tyler that is encapsulated in one single track. All the elements that we talked about at the beginning of this episode in terms of what defines Tyler as an artist, a true multifaceted, not one-dimensional artist, production.

I think we can all, I don't even have to belabor that point. Gon-Gong-G-G-G-E-G-E-G-G-E-C-U is some of his best production in his catalog. Rapping. The single rap verse in Gone-Gon-Thank-you comes over three minutes into the song. Yep. So to get to the rap verse, we have already gone on such an emotional journey. There is before the rap verse comes in, he modulates the song.

He strays away from the sample and totally flips the song midway through, and there's going to be yet another flip at the end when he gets to the song. thank you. But what I love about the rapping in Gone Gone Thank You is that it's something we talked about on a song like Wilshire, some of the more storytelling as rapping that aren't going to hit you over with head technically with double rhyme schemes and triple entendras. Eternal rhymes and all, yeah. But it has another side of rapping that is really nuanced and important and hard to get to, which is storytelling and emotional expression. And when this rap verse drops after the weight of the three minutes to get to it, after the storytelling of Igor to get

to this moment, and what he wraps about and the texture and the tone of his voice, it just hits so, so well. So let's hear it. So we're getting, this is all modulation. I think it's 251 poor progression. brought this on me is my fault you go leave less and tell see the it's just

it has the effortlessness it has some of the dejection but he's still smooth and you know charismatic in there so how is that going for it so production check rap

element check which is I think actually is kind of rare to get those two things and the song and the next point melodic songwriting check like for sure the hook on this song

the curation of the feature that we will not say the name of beautiful and then if we're the other thing that we've singled out at the beginning of this was world building concept characters and we already said Igor is the era that we kind of is the most iconic and I will say before we get to the thank you part because I want to shout out what Characaric Car Michael says because this is going to be my big point. I hate wasted potential. That shit crushes your spirit. It really does.

It crushes your soul. So just in that little part, Dharad Car, Michael kind of sums up everything we've been saying this season, where if Tyler had just stayed the annoying little teenager, making yonkers and jumping on Jimmy Fallon's back, we would not be talking about him. It would have been wasted potential. Most rappers do not get to that point, who become that famous, that quickly. that young, they keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different

result. And I think gone, gone, thank you in every single way illustrates Tyler pushing against that, being like, I'm going to constantly grow. There's going to be new eras. I could probably in the beginning, I could have made way more money just fucking hitting the same thing over and over again. And he does the harder thing. He goes the cherry bomb route. He makes mistake. Not, and cherry bomb's a mistake. But he follows his heart. And to me, gone, gone, thank you is the best representation of what happens. There's not that waste of potential. And also, let me just point out, we talked about him being a underrated sampler. So here he's reimagining a sample interpolating a melody of the city pop Japanese song

It's so beautiful And we should also point out The beginning of the track is also Contains a sample The guitar Man This is the one to beat So this is, I mean it has the full breadth

Like there's It just has so much And it feels effortless It doesn't feel clunky. Everything flows, even though it has all the elements that we're looking for in a title of the creator song, you wouldn't, it doesn't like call attention to itself in a way that I think some of his earlier attempts on a cherry bomb calls attention to his production. It's like a great director that gets to the point of like, I don't need to show off a hundred different camera angles and techniques. You know, it's like old, it's like early PTA versus like mature PTA where it's like he's not doing the flashy stuff, but it's still really technically sound.

It's still brilliant. Are we just, I mean, so Justin, we'll bring you in just a second, but I mean, we're circling a song that sounds like we're both very passionate about. We have like him, earthquake and new magic one if we want to keep that in conversation. Do any of those songs stand a chance against gone, gone, thank you. Earthquake, like him, gone, gone, thank you. Yeah. God, I mean, I don't know. Let me, let me just add this to the.

conversation to if we're I don't know how much we care about this but earthquake bigger song than gone

gone thank you new magic one bigger song than I than gone gone thank you like him already more streams

than gone gone thank you so give a fuck about what's big it doesn't quite have the commercial

appeal but is that a defining characteristic of Tyler I don't know I'll say this you know

with gone, gone, thank you. It was not a song that I would have picked going into this exercise. That's my exact experience, too. It was only until we got to Igor that I was like, holy shit. It might be this one. Yeah. And that means a lot because I would have been like, it's definitely earth. Like, it's definitely, I was like, nope, is this one.

Yeah. This has always been my favorite song off Igor. And I don't know. I mean, like, look, it's easy to retroactively go back and be like, I kind of felt this all along. but like this was my pick heading into this not going to like the true backpacker justin was early you know he saw the vision before the masses did yeah but i'm not going i'm not going with any rapidy rap i know i know i'm just kidding gone gone thank you is my vote or where is your heart

going because it to me the not the deficiencies but i will just use that word what we're lacking and like him and what we're We're lacking in earthquake. Gone, gone, thank you. Marries those two. Marries those two. And I think it is very poetic that, like, for the reasons we can't pick earthquake, for the reasons we probably can't pick like him, we end up with like meeting in the middle.

And I do like that it sounds like we're landing here. I think it not being as popular and putting a stamp on it, I think is. And a song that I think has aged really well. I think a gone, gone, thank you. Even if it wasn't the popular choice in 2019 when it came out, I think our experience might be like speaks to a lot of people as experience about this song, revisiting Igor and then this song kind of just rising to the top. I like that.

I like that in this choice. I don't think any of us are going to make a case that is going to be convincing enough for a like him and earthquake. I think the last thing I would say about like him just to give it a little bit more. more love in this conversation. One, I think it could have the same effect as a gong, gone thank you in five, 10 years where people, even more than they already do realize that that's a really special

song in this catalog, although the streams are saying that people are recognizing that early. Emotionally, I think it gets deeper and it's more profound than a gong, gone, thank you, but it is in this conversation one dimensional. We don't get the rap,

we don't get the, like some of the curation. aspects of that a gone, gone, thank you guys. I think if we're looking for a perfect package, I think the last song

standing of season five, Tyler of the Creator is Gone, gone, thank you. Let's fucking go. Yeah. Woo!

All right, we don't even need to check. Justin, you're good. Yeah. Good. I think we made the right choice. I'm feeling good about this.

Yeah, I think, hopefully there's enough drama. There is enough drama in the arc of the season to your point about, yeah, wasn't until I revisited Igor that this song was like, once I heard it, I was like,

this kind of is the obvious choice. I was hoping something or just waiting to see if anything other songs might have that same effect. But this is the one that just, I'm glad that we all three agree on that. I went back to Igor this morning because like there was in my back of my head, I was like, I think it's going to be gone, gone. Thank you. But I listened to New Magic Wand.

I listen to Earthquake. And I was listening for, I was like, is something going to pop out about these songs that are going to make it like a, and I was like, I don't. I don't know if there is. And I love that it's coming off of Igor because, I mean, I don't know what you guys feel about Igor, but it seems to be aging really, really well. Yeah. It to me is, it is becoming like a vinyl record that my 11-year-old daughter might buy 10 years from now.

It's already there. I think so. I already think it is in the same way that Frank Ocean is blonde. You just kind of know what's going to be around. I think Tyler's Igor is one where it's like if you have to point to a record, that's the one where you're like, yeah, he did it. Yeah. Yeah.

And what I love about that record, which I think of your guest to talk a little bit about, about it. But I love that it is a little still middle stage Tyler where he still has a little bit rough around the edges. It's still, because chromocopia is so polished and I love that in its own way. But I love that we still get a little of that rough around the edges texture, that early Tyler represents and the polish of later Tyler. It just sits perfectly

at this moment right in the middle. And I love that Gongong, gone, thank you. It's coming off of that record, his most iconic record. I think it's the right choice. Okay. We've done. We've fucking... This is, I think, the most rewarding season we've done so far. I had to dig deep on this season just in terms of I was just like, okay, you have your preconceived notions about Tyler. Yeah. You have to leave those at the door.

You have to leave the nostalgia at the door because going into this, I probably would have rated, I know I would have rated his earlier career higher and just have to be very objective about, like, no, no, that's just when you discovered him. Right. Take that out of the equation. You know, give chromocopia, give don't tap the glass, give these records another listen to see the progression. Because I think Igor was always number one for me, but chromocopia, don't tap the glass. honestly call me if you get lost was it not my number two Tyler record before I did this and going back to it I was like oh man this is yeah this is an insane record okay so next season of last song standing we don't have it picked out at all yet we haven't even talked about it privately is there any artist Justin bring you into like is there any like Tyler was like one we were circling for a long time we've obviously wanted to do the Kanye season but I don't know if that's ever going to happen and there doesn't seem to be like an obvious one to me now

Like, do you have an obvious one. Oh, really? To me, yeah. And the listeners also chime in in the comments and stuff, but what's your? It's been a sausage fest last song standing for the last four seasons. That's true. Rosalia? I was going to say, we got to do the queen.

I feel like we got to do Beyonce. Oh, really? That scares me. And that's why we have to do it. I think, you know, no one wants a bunch of dudes talking about Beyonce, but that's almost why you got. Like to me, if we've, I think we've been picking artists for different reasons, but I'm like, next season I do want to do, like, I want to show a woman to love. And I was like, all right, well, we could do Cizza. I love Rosalia, Charlie, but I was like, but before Beyonce, Renaissance, Lemonade.

That would be the most fun one. Come on. Okay. I know that, yeah, that one. I know you're afraid of it But I'm afraid of that one Come on man I know one that we should be more afraid of

What? What? M and M. We're not doing M We are not doing M. We are not doing M. I love M. I love M but it would get

The late stage career It's gonna get dark I couldn't sit through that much Late stage M and M I mean Jay Z also one I think we've been circling That's also a huge discography That's

How many albums is Jay have at this point? He looks at me like, you know, you have this encyclopedia knowledge. I think 13 plus the. A ton of Lucy's ton of. Let's do a J and Bay season. Fuck. Oh my God.

Well, yeah, if the listeners have any, I mean, or do we go, like, do we do a curveball? Like, I've been, I did a daft punk. We did a little mini-season on daft punk. Do we do a non-hip pop album for the first time? Or hip-hop artist or artists or RV artists? Like, do we do? a rock album, a rock, a rock artist. Damn.

Do we go something like, I don't know, do we go far back as like a queen or something? Maybe not a queen, but queen. I mean, I thought you were going to say the Beatles. I was like, I'm not doing the Beatles, bro. That'd be really fun, but I don't know. The people are going to kill me for this. And this might just be like me growing up black. The Beatles were not a big thing in my household.

Yeah. I mean, like my friends just love the. be I had a lot of white friends and they're like you didn't grow up listening to me I was like I have classic white suburban family I grew up on the Beatles for sure I was like that's cool but I was some Steve I was like I was listening to like Stevie Wonder but I mean he'd be another good artist too I mean yeah so we could also think about you know non non hip hop non hip hop R&B if we want to mix it up I think there's that could bring in well think about it so but listeners comment just is there anything else? I mean, last

season, I got a listener DM'd me saying that we should actually do the dipset camera on season. All right. That's you, you guys. I'll be the producer. No, no, no, no, no. That's not me. I love Cam, love dipset. That we are not to... Just shout out to that one person who DM'd me and said that.

I did get a DM so it was like, Brockhampton and I was like, I don't think we could do a Brockhampton. No, their legacy's not long enough. And they, yeah, cultural impact to me is not there. I know they're Colley. Coli La Bullitt. My, hey, I'm pushing, y'all. I think a Beyonce season would be incredible.

Maybe that is the one to beat. Chart like charting her, like, let's just be clear. We're not committing to it yet. We're not committing to anything. So tell us, and guys do not flood the comments with Kanye. We have had the talks behind the scenes.

Every single time we get up to that rail, we're like, we're not touched. Yeah, it's maybe in five years. We'll get there. But yeah. Okay. Well, pleasure as always, Charles.

bro you're a changed or you're a changing man a maturing man i've loved the evolution me honestly tyler and i's evolution very very similar we come now we're i know i love that ever bro all right all right charles our final cultural exchange i'm getting sad i say this every single time at some point i hope we do this for seasons people are going to always be like you say this every single time but not only do i love the cultural exchanges, just every single summer when we do this, my appreciation for music. It is, because sometimes I feel like in the comments, you can see it where people are like, damn, I wish I could talk to about music with my friend.

And I was just like, oh, I get to talk about music with my friend. I know, single fucking summer. This one, yeah, this is, I love this season. I'm sad it's ending. Okay, so last episode, we revealed, we're recording those, these two episodes back to back. So you couldn't give me a cultural exchange, but I planned ahead. Okay. I watched something.

Do you have any idea where I might have watched? Miyazaki. Not an anime. Not an anime. What's the non-animy movie that might have been brought up earlier this season? My fucking brain is Swiss chis, but not anime. Was it released this year? No, definitely not.

I'm at a loss. I watched Star Wars for the first time. Oh shit. Oh, this is like people like he's no, no, no, this is a surprise me. You need not tell me. Yeah. Wait, what? When?

And I tried to get Justin to watch it too to surprise you, but he didn't do it. Man, Justin, come on. Justin's not here right now. He had to go. Oh my. Dude, set the scene when, where, how are you feeling? I watched it last night in my hotel room on my laptop, which maybe, maybe not the best experience, but, you know.

Doesn't matter. Okay. Nguense thoughts about this. I would say this. One, all due respect to Star Wars. I understand its magnitude, it's innovation, its influence.

Got it. I think it's impossible when a movie that looms this large over the culture where you already know about all the things that make the movie special to where when you see them

in the actual movie, they don't feel special. then you don't see it for the first time when he pulls out the lightsaber I imagine in the moment or even if I was a kid seeing that for the first time not having been steeped 40 years in Star Wars culture

that would be really fucking cool Darth Vader really cool all the iconic things we know from Star Wars would be so cool I it's just too late in my life to have a pure Star Wars experience to where I was watching the movie understanding. Yeah, it looks really aged well.

Aesthetically, none of it feels cheesy still. Like it holds up. But I think it's just going to be impossible for me to experience it in a way that I should have probably experienced it when I was 10 years old, right? Does that make sense? It makes perfect. It is similar to, I think, ghosts in the show when you watched it. It is something where because there's a before and act.

and so much of culture has taken from it, in your mind you build it up as like, oh, to your point, you first see the lightsaber. It's going to be, and it's like, oh, it's a lightsaber. And I watched it as a child.

So I got the like, oh, there's puppets and the blasters or whatever, but if you just watch it cold. Or even all the characters, like when I was trying to think about them, like without trying to remove as much as I could, I was like,

yeah, there's engaging characters, all of them. You know, Chewbacca, uh, the, Android, like all of them are really special in their own way, but I'm already so familiar with them that I'm just like, again, through cultural osmosis, it is almost impossible for you not to know the Star Wars story, even if you've never watched Star Wars.

So when you finally watch it, you're like, I already saw this. Like I know, I know it this way. Okay, Justin's back. Like, as we just said, Justin, I tried to get him to watch it. he did not. And I'm just going to say, Justin, to recap what you missed because you just walked in. I was saying to Charles, it's just impossible and you would have the same experience as I did.

It's impossible to experience it in any impactful or pure way because we know some, all the cool things we already know so they're not revelations. They're just, we take them for granted. So that's kind, that was kind of my argument when we, when this first came up, like, I haven't seen Star Wars. And part of the reason I haven't seen it is because I've had no curiosity to watch it because I've been I've been bombarded by all this lore and all these different characters and I kind of know how the plot plays out over the course of all these episodes. The real reason I didn't watch it wasn't that though. The real reason I didn't watch it was because I had better plans come up last night and then I was thinking and I really think is funnier if I go to my grave

the only Star Wars that I have seen being phantom menace. My only true experience sitting in front of a screen. How can you call yourself a Sinai Wars? Was as a teenager seeing Jar Jar Jinks. That is actually the point though. I don't think you heard you so maybe say it again. How can you call yourself a cinephile not having seen Star Wars? Look, I don't call myself a cinephile. I'm a movie lover and I love the movies

that I love. Look, again, I don't want to just repeat myself because anybody who heard the first episode is going to roll their eyes at anything I have to say about this. But I think if you didn't get into this stuff when you were a kid it's hard to get into it. I think that's part of the experience Cole had trying to watch this. So where I will push

back though, if you have time, the only other assignment maybe we can pick it back up next summer. I would watch Empire Strikes back and the reason why is not to belabor the point, but the first Star Wars

a lot had to go right for it to get to where it was so it is like a janky movie. And I mean that it's a classic. I love Star Wars. But like we're talking about Coppola, Spielberg, Lucas had to bring in all of his friends at the time who were like, you need to do this and you need to do that because when he first filmed it, it was a fucking goddamn mess. Like the success is just. Oh, there was a scratched version of Star Wars.

Was that you're saying? Essentially, George Lucas historically is not the strongest director and not the strongest writer, even though he is one of the most. most important visionaries he has, like we have. So when you watch Empire Strikes Back, it is like another experience. It is finally like, oh, this isn't put together with duct tape and glue. Like a where Empire Strikes Back is the moment where like it crystallizes, where if you don't get Empire Strikes Back, I don't know if we would remember Star Wars in the same way. If you look at like the history of Star Wars is almost just as fascinating, if not more, because he was a contemporary of a Coppola,

of a Spielberg, of a Scorsese. And a bunch of those directors, he showed the original cut of Star Wars. And they were, the only person was like, this is going to be the biggest movie of all time was Spielberg. The rest of them were like helping him like,

piece together the narrative. Because he's like, it doesn't make any fucking sense. George, what are you talking about? What's the fucking force? So, yeah, I would. A little Dow.

A little Dow in there. Come on. Energy field tapping into the, yeah. The big story is like how he got basically Star Wars to where it was is he read Joseph Campbell. And he was like, okay, all of these stories come from the same source. And reading Joseph Campbell now is very much different than where it wasn't as much. Yeah. Solidified.

So I would watch Empire Strikes back because I think you will just be like, oh, I get what Charles is saying where it's like, you love the original Star Wars because of the jankiness. And then once the time you get to Empire, like, okay, this is everything that movies will be for the next. Okay. You might sell me on that. Now that I've seen one, maybe I will dive into the second. Hell yeah, man. This is why we do it. All right. Yeah, we'll see y'all next season.