Daft Punk's 'Discovery' vs. Radiohead's 'Kid A' | LAST SONG STANDING [E4]
00:00Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing. I'm Cole Kushna.And I'm Charles Holmes. And in this four season of Last Song Standing, Cole and I are debatingour way through some of the best albums of the 21st century in order to crown the greatestalbum of the last 25 years, aka the last album standing.Last episode, Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP went against Tyler the creator's Igor.Ultimately, Eminem came out on top.Yes, he did. Yes, he did.But on today...
00:34Your first win of the season.All right, first of all, it's been rigged for a while.Let's not get into it.All right, let's keep this friendship intact.But on today's episode, we've got two more classic albums going head to head.But first, Cole, how are we feeling about things?Right now on the board, we have Kanye West, my beautiful dark twisted fantasy,Beyonce's Lemonade.
00:57And last but not least, Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP.I'm kind of feeling good about this.I feel pretty good too.I mean, as much as it is hard for me to stomach Igor losing, I understand why.I think it's kind of balanced right now, and I think today's episode is going to give it, present some more balance, some more genre.I mean, this is our first remote episode of the season.The distance between us is going to come together with my excitement for this episode because I don't know if I've ever been as excited to record an episode as I am for today's episode.This was the most fun I've ever had prepping for a last song standing.
01:34Like two albums that were, I don't know if we knew how amazing they would be paired together.But I literally, just even the research for this, for this episode was I just kept reading and watching documentaries and watching videos.Same with me, I literally had two back-to-back dreams about daft punk last night and the night before.Like, I've been just, especially the daft punk, then, I don't know, I'm written, well, let's re-reveal ouralbums and then we'll get into it because I'm picking my favorite album all time gun to the head.I think Kid A by Radiohead.My selection today is my favorite album of all time.I am so excited to talk about it with you specifically.
02:11And I am picking Dap Punk's Discovery, which is probably the album that as an adult is top five I listen to the mostand is one of the most impactful albums as a kid.Like I remember where I was when I heard this album and one of the first.songs for the first time.And it just transformed me and is probably the reason that I became a music critic.One more time.We're going to celebrate and dance.Before we get to down the rabbit hole of Daft Punk, Radiohead, Cole, let's recap the show premise, the rules, the structure for anybody who might have forgotten.
03:11Yeah.So remember every episode, Charles and I are going to nominate one album we think should be in contention for the21st century's best. Each album gets its own half of the episode where we'll make a case for whyit's one of the best albums of the last 25 years. Then at the end of the episode, the two albums gohead to head, and Charles and I will debate until we can agree on one winner. The winning albumfrom each episode advances to the season finale Royal Rumble. That's where Cole and I will face offone last time eliminating albums one by one until we can crown the greatest album of the 21st century,aka the last album standing.
03:48All right, cool.Now that we got all of that out of the way,let's discuss why we paired Discovery with Kid A.Because to let the listeners behind the curtain a little bit,we've actually been very, very malleable with this season.I feel like the albums have always kind of been the albumsonce we settled on it.But we've been doing a little bit of chess moves
04:10to figure out thematically, historically,what are the best pairings?Yeah, I think for this one specifically,I think both of the album come out early 2000s, right?I mean, Kidd A is the year 2000,Dapunk shortly after.And I think these two albums as a pairreally can really tell the story of the 21st century
04:34and where things kind of giving you definitive markersabout where exactly you can point to both of these albumsand say, this changed something.Yeah.And they're both calling to electronic music, right?Each in their own way.But these are definitive marker points that set the trajectory of music in the 21st century on a whole new path.You know, with the radio head, which we'll get into probably a little bit more later,
05:02you know, they are obviously a rock band that decided to go more an electronic lane.It's funny listening to the kid A going back to it.It's not as ambitious or innovative as it probably felt back then in terms of like it's not really an electronic album, but it was this rock band that decided to essentially change the trajectory of their own career by abandoning rock music and incorporating more electronic elements.On the other side of this coin, we have daf punk who is a traditional coming, they come from the electronic kind of the underground scene in France and really bring it to the forefront in a way that.no other duo or artist has sense or back then, certainly.So I think, again, these are definitive marker points.I toss the same question to you.What's interesting about these pairings and what do you see in them symbolically?
05:57Doing more research on both and going back and reading interviews for that time,it's hilarious how both, I would say, Tom York specifically, and then Daft Punk wereboth at this inflection point, not only in their careers, but in popular music, where I think thatthere was a sense in the early 2000s of where else is there to go in rock music. Tom York had eventalked about after the success of OK computer being almost disgusted with the rock mythologyand everything that we had been told through the 20th century of like what it means to be.a rock and roll star. And I think daft punk in a very, very similar way, this is their second album.They start to crystallize what they are in terms of like coming up with the origin story,
06:52the robot heads. But there was still this in both groups, there's this tension of peopleforget, like daft punk started in rock and roll as well. They are very, very talented rock musicians.I think their first band, Darling was the two of them with one of the guitarists.I believe from Phoenix, another great band.And it's just interesting to see in interviews from that time how both of these artistsare almost feeling like trapped in by just classic rock music.And these two albums just blowing the doors wide open.And even some of the reviews that I was reading from that time were not as glowing as you
07:37would think they are, especially for Kid A.A lot of them was like, oh.Well, even Discovery, Discovery got a 6.4 on pitch for it.Yes.Which is just like crazy.They have since, you know, revised the score to a perfect 10.But it does show you like, we take for granted the sound of kid aid today.And to our modern ears, it doesn't sound.
08:01I don't think, like if I played it for a younger generation or even my kids,I don't think they would understand the magnitude of radiohead going that way.same with Dathpunk.We kind of take their contributions for granted now.But back then, the reviews are great.I love that they both had mixed reviews at the timebecause it just shows you where we were in musicand what was acceptable, what was palatable,
08:23and how fresh and innovative and forward-thinking these albums truly were,even if our modern years kind of like, I mean,Discovery registers as a pop record to me.I was surprised about how poppy it really is,not to step on too much about Discovery.But yeah, but let's get into ticket A because I think we can continue this conversation about a really a definitive inflection point in the history of music.So let's start with just I'll give you some basic album facts and then we can continue our conversation.Released on October 2nd, 2000, it's Radiohead's fourth studio album and a huge departure from the previous work in OK Computer.
09:02Notably, the album did not produce any official singles.However, it's still debuted at number one on the U.S. Billboard 200.selling approximately 200,700,000 copies in its first week.Fans and critics were divided, as we discussed, about the electronic sound.But Kidae is now recognized as one of the best and most influential albums of all time.It was named Best Album of the 2000s by Pitchfork and ranked number 20 on Rolling Stones' 500 best albums of all time list.I think when we're kind of setting this album up, I think two things are important.one were the expectations placed on Radiohead at this time.
09:40You know, we've had 50 years of rock music.As you kind of mentioned, there was a question about where is rock going to go next and who is going to take us there?And Radiohead with OK Computer were crowned as the future of rock music.And they were seen as the kind of innovators that would usher in a new era of rock music and present a new frontier.and these were going to be the leaders that everyone followed.That still remained true, but the direction that they took,specifically after OK Computer,was not the direction anyone was expecting.
10:13However, it did influence specifically rock musicand how rock musicians approached music.It forever changed that.I can speak to that personally.There is, for me as a musician,there is a before and after Kid A.The band that I was in at the time was an indie rock band,more traditional rock band.
10:31As soon as Kid A came out,We were experimenting with piano.We were bringing in samplers.We were having our parents come and play like abstract horns and trumpets all over our album.That was a direct correlation to Kidday.And I'm one of millions of white suburban kids that did the same exact thing.So there is a definitive inflection point.And so in rock music and rock musicians, I think you paired that with what Radiohead
10:59and specifically Tom York was going through, which informed so much.of the sound and approach of Kidae, which washe got essentially likeall this weight that dropped on him afterokay computer essentially sent him into like a panicexistential kind of crisis aboutwho he was as an artistwhere he wanted his music to go. And to your point
11:23he was kind of sick of rock music. He was sick ofbeing crowned the new kind of Kurt Cobain or whatever.And so well before I kind ofjust turned this into a one manshow, speak to continue the conversation about where you see Kid A and the transition pointat the turn of the century. So I think what's interesting about doing this exercise is that I'm alittle younger than you. So I came in towards the end of Radiohead's career within rainbowswhere I think they had kind of fleshed out the latter half of their career in terms of
11:58just being a strict rock band to a rock band that is very much known for experimenting with a lot ofdifferent instruments. And going back to Kid A, what was interesting is how it literally sounds like agroup developing a new way to construct an album where you can, even when you're readinghow they made the album, I'm like, oh, electronic or like how we know how to create arecord now was not really prevalent to them where it's like of course this the internet is startingto become a thing but everything is still like whether you're talking about the synthesizers orthe samplers to have a bunch of people who are going from a genre that is very guitar forwardand basically telling them sometimes there's not going to be guitar on this uh sometimes we are
12:53going to just have one clip of a sound or we are going to have five minutes of soundsand we are going to have to figure out where the song is in this.And then just kind of the ego management that an album like this takes,where it's like, oh, I'm not going to be part of this.Or I'm going to have to completely change how I know how to play my instrument,what it means.And this record sounds like that.And that tension, and when you find, that tension breaks.
13:28and you finally get the harmony is when this album started to make sense for me.This is all, Kid A to me is almost an album where you have to like surrender yourself to thejourney.You have to surrender yourself to the abrasive nature of this, where it takes you emotionally.And once you do that, you're like, oh, I understand this.But that is why I do think the, the mixed reactions in the moment don't actually surprise me.because if you're not used, like,our ears, to your point, are used to hearing this.
14:02Like, Frank Ocean's blonde is a perfect example of,it does something similar in R&B,where it's like if your ears aren't use to something so abstractwhere you have horns and then jazz and then synths and then guitars,you're just like, what the fuck is?This is the most pretentious bullshit I've ever heard.But yes, kid A, during this exercise,I just, my love for this album
14:28just blossom tenfold.Yeah, I think your point about the ego is really,I mean, for Radiohead specifically,you know, they were on the edge of breakupafter OK computerand just the what seemed like studio hellfor about a year of them just trying,essentially Tom not wanting, like,
14:47just forcing the band to be like,I'm not writing, well, he had writer's block for one thing.Like he didn't want to pick up a guitar,it made him sick.and so he's basically forcing these four other guys to go on this journey with him,which I think aside from Johnny,I think all three of the other members kind of had reservations about it.And to their credit,
15:05like they,it's kind of like the Beatles and Sergeant Pepper,you know,like Bringo had the famous quote,I learned how to play chess during that recording sessionbecause it was kind of Paul,Paul and John Lennon's thing,you know,
15:19and to all the secondary members of Radiohead and the Beatles,to their credit, they adapted.They found ways to contribute,whether that was by reinventing how Ed play guitar,for instance. He became much more atmosphericand really got into effects pedals,and that's how he adapted to the sound,or whether it was by subtraction where a song like
15:41everything in its right place,like only Johnny and Tom are on that song.I think there is one kick drum,but that might be electronic.So technically the other guys aren't even on that song,and that take the ego,the ego death of that, I think, is so important.And in terms of like, yeah, Kidae would not exist if those members of the band hadn't sacrificed
16:02their, you know, it's kind of like recording podcasts.I'm like, Charles, actually, you're kind of just not needed on this episode.You know, that's a little bit hard to stomach, right?And to their credit, yeah, and I think, you know, just to paint the picture a little bit morebefore we get into trivia and categories, there's a kind of great sequence that kind oftells you just how Mac, like how huge Radiohead got after OK Computer almost overnight.So just a month before OK Computers released, the band played to 400 people at their show inLisbon. Five days after OK Computers released, they were playing into 38,000 people in Dublin.
16:42Just a week after that, they headline Glastonbury performing in front of nearly 100,000people. So just the, like, the shock of that. Like that, you know, for us,rest maybe like it sounds like a dream come true, which I'm sure it is, but like specifically forTom, this was a really dark time for him. And Kid A is essentially what came out of the darkness.It's, it's, I think it reinvigorated the band. It set them on a totally new trajectory.And I think historically we think of, I think OK, computer was enough to cement them as one of thegreatest rock bands ever, that and the bends. But Kid A puts them in a different echelon in terms oflike innovation, really contributing to the history of music in a way that you cannot write a
17:26history book about popular music in the 21st century without a radiohead chapter. And I don't thinkthat happens just with OK computer. I think it's because of Kidae, it's because of amnesiac,it's because of eventually in rainbows. And I guess I don't know if we want to talk aboutlike why Kidae over in rainbows. But I think for me at least, it's all the historical stuff.that we're talking about.We could point to Kid A and have this conversationthat we're having about the history of musicthrough this record in a way that I don't think we can
17:57with In Rainbows.I think in Rainbows is the more enjoyable listen for me,but to your point, the more ambitious genre,like defining and defying record is kidding.This is a record where I was just like,okay, yeah, this is, to your point,with this discovery, you can point to the momentthat it dropped and you're like, okay, nothing ever was the same.
18:22And I can point to almost the best and most important music of the 21st century being indebtedto both of these albums.In a way where in Rainbows is not that.And I would say the same, it's a parallel analogy to me with Discovery versus Random AccessMemories.Both in Rainbows and Random Access Memories are capstones on the careers of these greathistorical musical geniuses.they are specifically to their career but i think both discovery and kidae contributed more to the
18:54history of music in terms of like influence yeah and a specific moment in time uh and symbolicallyi love the fact that they're both came out in 2000 and 2001 i just the music nerd in me just loves likeit's the literal turn of the century we get these two yep the century defining albums andagain it's like it all you could all trace it all back here perfectly all right so we'veready for some trivia?Trivia.I have two questions for you.I tried to keep them on the easy side since I was attacked by our good friend, Justin.
19:29You did good last time.Justin, what's up?I brought an impartial judge with me today.Our girl, Trina?Yeah.She's here.Trina was barking at me earlier.Look, man.
19:42She's got good senses.Yeah, she barked.She was like, oh, no, he's coming in here with some bullshit takes.I'm not allowing that to happen on my watchBut now Trina's here with usAnd she's going to be the ultimate arbiterOf whether these questions are fair or notAlright so my first question
20:02How to disappear completelyWas inspired by a dream where Tom YorkTom York had before the band performed in DublinAccording to York he was running naked from a tidal waveCan you name the river he was running next to in his dreamI can do that quite easily, Charles. It's the Liffy Ripper.All right. You know what? I want to throw you a softball. You got that one right. My next question,I know you're going to get this one right, but I thought it was interesting.
20:31Idiot Tech samples, 1976 is Emil Dune Lease by Paul Lanski in an essay discussing it, the song being sampled.What famous core did Lansky say inspired his classical computer piece?Oh, I love that you, like I was going to talk about this. It's the Trist's the Trist.Tristan Chord by Rick Rhele Yes. Can you tell, can you tell our people what the TristanCourt is? Well, I'm going to save it because I'm going to nominate idiotic, spoiler alert. And soI'll save the analysis. See, these were things that I.Two for two, baby. All right. There was not a lot. Every single time I read something,I'm like, he knows this. He fucking knows this. But without. Those are good questions.
21:09You got, if I wasn't something radio head nerd. You got two on the board. With that being said,do you want to get into the categories?This was really hard for me,but yes, let's go into the categories.For each album this season,if y'all ever forgot,we have five categories.Biggest song, best song,
21:26worst song,best deep cut,and best moment,and then at the end of the episode,these five categoriesfrom each albumwill go head to headin order to determine
21:33which album wins the episodeand earns a spotin the season finaleRoyal Rumble.Up first is the biggest song.Where are you going?Biggest song,I mean, it's actually quite easy because you just look at the streams and it's pretty clear.
21:49It's everything in its right place.Arguably, it might be the best song, but I love that it's biggest so I can nominate another best song.This to me, this song is, oh my God.The intro of this song, talk about one of the most iconic riffs in music history.That opening piano riff played on the prophet synthesizer is just like, it's like, it's like,For me, in my mind, it's like, that's the moment Bob Dylan goes electric.This is the first thing people heard post-O-K computer, one of the most anticipated albumsof all time.
22:38They push play.They hear this fucking otherworldly synthesizer and these beautiful piano chords playingin 10-4 time.And it's just like, this is, it's just like people back then are like, what is this?It's, you know, famously Bob Dylan goes from a folk acoustic guitar.and at the Newport News or the Newport Music Festival in 1965,he plugs in an electric guitar and people go crazy.He's being called Judas.
23:04People are booing.And it's like it's the same that to me that the opening piano or profit synthesizerin this song is like it's the score to the opening of the music documentary on the21st century music.It's like this is the opening moment of the entire century to me.Am I being too hyperbolic here?Yes.because I still have my album to discuss,
23:29but keep cooking,keep going,keep going.Is this your,this is your favorite song off the album?Probably.Really?Probably.
23:39Yeah.Because I know you're,I know,you already know what mine is,but I like this song as well.Okay,you do.So, yeah,
23:45I mean,just tell me about it personally.This to me was a difficultsong to get into.Okay.And then when,I think I watched,like this documentary that Tom York had discussing the song.
24:02And it kind of just opened it up for me, to your point,in terms of just like, weirdly stepping on my stuff.Like, Daff Punk had talked about how, like, one more timewas a bridge between homework and discovery.And to your point, this song to me is like a bridge between,okay, computer and kid A.And that's what I love about the symmetry of this.to hear the artist even in the moment,
24:31knowing that they needed a trackto give us the bridgebecause I'm like, we forget,this is the dawn of the internet,but there's not social media.There's not all of these thingsthat we have to be like,oh, Tyler, the creator is going in a different route.
24:49We know that usually by the time they release,like, the album cover.This, you're just like, oh,things are moving more slowly.So it gave me a,a better appreciation for the song because I was listening to both OK computer and Kidae kind of atthe same time so I could take myself back to the moment and be like, all right, how jarringof an experience was this when you first hit play? Yeah, and it was like to bring up the
25:17skeleton key. I think we're going to try to say that in every episode. That was literally the skeletonkey for Radiohead was this song. This was, I think it was the first song they completed for the album.and it ended up being like a huge turning point for them,all the band members kind of understanding,okay, one, we can do this.We can actually complete a song after all,like a year of sketches and false starts and creative differences.Like everyone in the band loved this song,
25:44even if they weren't playing on it.And so it ended up becoming kind of the window into like this whole worldthat they end up creating with Kidd A.I think what's interesting too about,we kind of take for granted that it's a piano that is,you know, it's essentially just Tom and piano and electronic effects for the most part on this song.Tom wasn't a piano player at this time, you know, like he was, he was a guitar guy and he barelyknew how to play piano, he says, and he bought his first piano in between OK Computer and Kidae,
26:13and this was the first thing he wrote on his new piano. And he said that he would just sit thereand play this opening riff that we hear on at the start of the song over and over and over.It was kind of like this meditative thing for him. And that meditative quality,really translates to me in the song because it does kind of hypnotize you and it perfectly setsthe tone of the entire record. It opens up the world we step into. We hear the iconic kid A kind ofvoice effects over the piano and then, you know, it's funny again, like looking back at thismonumental innovative record and realizing just how many of these songs are still kind of justthe foundation of them are still singer-songwriter songs. Like everything in its right place for how
26:56odd it is in terms of time signatures and like not really having a tonal center in a traditionalway like it has all the radio head like cool music nerd shit that I love but when you break it downit's like they're still kind of a verse there's still kind of a chorus like you can still sing alongto it and I think that's um that's that's that's what like electronic people like real likeaphx twin famously kind of shit on kid Aifex twin being much more traditional electronicartist and kind of seeing the credit that Kadei was getting, he was kind of like, what's so specialabout it? I don't get it. Anyone could be doing this. Because to him, to someone that has a mastery,a true mastery of electronic music, like he's looking at this and be like, what's the big deal?
27:43But, you know, these guys were all new at all of this. So this is like kids being introduced to a new toy shopand trying to figure out how all the toys work. You know, Tom barely knows that a piano. Johnny's kindexperimenting with all these weird synthesizers.And again, it all kind of coalesces into this moment, into this song, that, that again,is the skeleton key to the entire thing.Not only, I think, for listeners in terms of setting the tone in the entire record, but alsofor the band.So I also think what's genius about it is Tom basically opening, which is essentially to
28:18your point, like piano, like a singer-songwriter piano, he's not good at it.But what I think it does, even subconsciously,for the listener is like at this time, I think electronic music for a lot of people is not cool.It is still, we are still in terms of this point in music criticism, rock is the center.That is still how we understand popular music.And for Tom to basically be like, I'm going to present you with something that's a little bit differentthat has electronic elements, jazz elements, horns and all this stuff.But before we get to that, the foundation of this is going to be a man in a piano.
29:01I think the caveman in us can understand that where we're just like, it says to a rock audience,even if they don't know it in the moment, not only is electronic music music, but I can prove it to you in one of the most, when we think of like what is just like the center of music a lot, I'm like, it's a man at a piano.Like that's like, you know what I mean?Right.You want to just break it down like that.So that's biggest song.What do you have for best song?If you don't pick the song that I want you to pick, I'm going to be very bad.
29:32There's kind of just one clear best song to me.What is it?It's how to disappear completely.Oh, all right.I know it's not your, I know it's not your pick.Idiotect will be talked about Charles in another category.So it's okay.Okay.
30:04How do you not like that?You don't like how to disappear completely?This is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard.Oh, no, no, no, no.Oh, no, I really like this song, actually.Okay.I really like this song.And what I will say is, um, I relate to this song as a human.
30:18Yeah.So, so much.But I don't want to snap.Well, I will talk about that later.I want you to, to go big on this.Yeah.It's, uh, it's hard to know where to start.I mean, if it does contextualize what a lot of Tom was going through at the time in terms of like,
30:34the theme of the song is about alienation.It is about this mantra that you was.saying to himself, the singer of REM gave him advice in terms of like Tom looking to the singerof R&M. What's this? I'm blanking on saying. Is Michael Stipe's his name? Yeah. Tom kind of goingto him for advice after kind of panicking about the newfound fame and the magnitude of everythingafter Okin computer. He, uh, Stipe tells him, you know, go into your hotel room and, and kind ofrepeat in your mind, I'm not here. This isn't happening. And so that's the mantra of the song.And just to read a quote about the song, he said, Tom said this, quote,
31:13The song is about the whole period of that time after Okie Computer was happening.We did the Glastonbury Festival and this thing in Ireland.Something snapped in me.I just said, that's it.I can't take it anymore.And more than a year later, we were still on the road.Like, so he's already panicking.And like he has, I forgot exactly how many shows they played in two years.
31:32It was something over like 500 shows in two years, which is just like insane.And he's even been real.was like, we weren't playing well.Like, that was the thing.As they're getting bigger and bigger and bigger,they're like, we're playing like fucking shit.I don't want to be here.Yeah.
31:48And so he's basically said,I didn't have time to address things.The lyrics came from something Michael Stipefrom R.E.M. said to me,I rang him and said,I cannot cope with this.And he said, pull the shutters downand keep saying, I'm not here.
31:59This isn't happening.And so what I love about Radiohead,I think they're one of the best,if not the best bands,to score the emotional and somatic subject of the song.So this song is about alienation, it's about, it's about disassociation, it's about isolation,and all of that is reflected in the music.And the text is heightened so beautifully and emotionally impactful with the score, essentially.
32:33And so this song starts with these.really haunting strings. And I would say just this is kind of a crystallizing moment in JohnnyGreenwood's career as a composer. I think when we think about Johnny Greenwood now, we thinkabout not only the guitarist from Radiohead, but we think about him as a legit composer whocomposed this film score, but also standalone traditional contemporary classical pieces. And I thinkyou can kind of trace it back to this song. This is the first song he scored. And it opens beautifullyand hauntingly with these strings.What's really cool about this,
33:16I'm going to try to keep my technical,musical, musical nerd shit to a minimum,but there is a, essentially a,what's called a half sharp being played,which is a note in betweenyour traditional sharp or flat,just think of it as out of tune.And that's what gives it that distant,
33:37eerie quality.And that sustains throughout the entire,like, first half of the song.On top of that, you get Tom's more traditional kind of just straightforward guitar strums.And then when the bass comes in, the bass is playing in a counter rhythm to the guitar player,to the acoustic guitar.And so you get this kind of rhythmic dissonance between the guitar, the acoustic guitar and the bass guitar.And you have these haunting strings.
34:02And so it's just setting like each instrument is disassociated from one another in the same way that Tom is singing about feeling disassociated from the experiences around him.And so when he comes in and starts to sing about floating down the river,like we feel like we're floating.And it's like technically we kind of are because all the disassociation happening in the music.And so, you know, that's just a small example of just radiohead being so brilliant at what is the heart of this song?What is the emotional heart of this song?And how do we accentuate it?How do we make it an experience that you kind of to your, like, sounds like you have a personal connection to this.
34:41song and I think a lot of that has to do with the way they're not only Tom is just thelyrics he's singing and the melody and like what he's actually singing about it's also equallyimportant how that that emotional depth of the music of the of the lyrics is being communicatedthrough the music itself but before I go to my next kind of moment in the song I wanted to pointout I definitely curious to know what your your connection to this the song is hearing Tomtalk about this moment in his career reminded me of like what the music press was like at this timewhere we are at the dawn of the internet but we are at the height of music news in terms ofMTV, BT, VH1, UK press. And when you think about how much they add to tour, how many
35:37interviews they had to do. There was one interview there that I was watching where you can see howtense Tom is at just the fact of how many people are asking if the group was going to break up and himtelling the group like, yo, don't talk about that. Like he's very much like, I don't want to talkabout this. And why really connected with this song is it reminded me that like none of this isnormal, that fame is normal. And especially radiohead, you have to think about it. Tom's feeling likethis before the social media age. He's just feeling, he's feeling this way when people stilltuned into TRL, when people still were just like, I'm watching music videos on my TV. Oh,My God, Radiohead is the biggest band of all time. And to know that when he's talking about
36:29the mythology of rock music and how much this is what you're supposed to want,You're supposed to want the tours.You're supposed to want the groupies.You're supposed, this is everything you work for.And this talented guy being like, I can't take it, I think is such a human, is such a human emotion.And to turn it into this type of song where I'm like, now that's all popular music is now.Now popular music is fame sucks, whatever.But this to me is a little less navel gazing.
37:01and a lot more to your point,they are scoring that feeling of like being a drift on a riverand in the tsunami and not knowing how to hold onand realizing that the thing that you worked for your whole lifeisn't actually what it was cracked up to beis something that is just so universal.Yeah, just and before we move on,I just got to point out probably like if this were a podcast
37:26about my favorite or the best moment,musical moments of the 21st century,I think this part of the song I'm about to play is that.So as I played the intro, things start kind of low and murky.When Tom does come in singing, he's singing in his lower register.And over the course of this, what, six-minute song,things just build and build and build and build.And there's just kind of this melancholy that kind of just clouds over the entire song.
37:55And tell this moment that I'm about to play.So it's going to start with an excerpt where kind of the melancholy,aspect of the song really comes to a climax.And then we're going to hear a switch to a major chord.And it's kind of this bright light that kind of shines through the clouds for a second.And then I'll play that part and then we'll play it.I'll set up the next part of the song because it's so cool what they do.So let's hear this part that I just set up.
38:42I'm going to stop it right there.So that was, did you feel that like things kind of opened up and got brighter there?And so it's kind of setting you up.to like for things to resolve maybe maybe finally things resolving a little bit more lighter and it kind ofdoes it resolved into a minor chord it's a deceptive cadence but it still resolves but court and tonally it resolvesbut then listen at the moment you feel like things should resolve listen to what johnny now doeswith the string arrangement he has the string players essentially playing all these glissondos onon their strings which give it this like weird microtonal essentially this is
39:22the moment we think things are going to resolve,it actually disassociates even more.So listen to that disassociation right now.So more tension.At the moment we thought there was going to be resolution,we get actually even more tension.Do you feel that dissociation in the strings?Yeah, if it was, if it felt like it was blooming,
40:01like listening to it is almost like someone ringing a towel,even tighter, and tighter.Right.At the moment where you thought, oh,can finally relax. Yeah, okay. So then that was, that makes what comes next, it's like you fuckingforic. So after all this tension, after we think things will resolve, more tension,that same chord comes back and it, it's even more euphoric, more kind of bright. So let's listento you a little bit more of that tension. And then again, watch how things open up. Some of the
40:55best music I've ever heard it. Bring me to tears almost every time like getting emotional. Justlisten to it right now. Like, oh, it's so beautiful. They're essentially.ending strings. It's like, oh, it's so gorgeous. Okay. No, I love this. Keep going. I don't even,I feel bad because our next category is worst song and I feel like this is going to, this is going toreally hurt you. This is going to be like a three-hour episode if I don't control myself. So let's move on.I'm glad you liked the song. I was, I was slightly fearful you're going to come in and shit onone of my favorite songs a whole time. Okay, so worst song, what are we doing with this category?It shouldn't exist in this album or discovery,
41:32but if forced to choose, I'm going with In Limbo.You don't want to say any much more than just that's my least favorite song in the album.I still like it.I still think like,kind of like Lemonade,plucking any song off of this.Like,I could have picked one of the interludes,
41:57but everything has a function.Like,it all slows.It's like,if you take in limbo out of this record,it kind of doesn't work as well.So I don't know.Like,
42:06that's my least favorite song.I don't know if you had a least favorite song,but we don't have to spend too much.I'm going to be honest.I am going to do the same thing for Discovery where I was like when I was picking, I'm like,I feel like an asshole even like putting any song in this.I was just like, no, no, I'm not, I'm going to say the song.I'm going to be like, it's my least favorite one.
42:22It is not bad because to your point, it's just like these are, to me, these are two perfectalbums where it's just like, it's like pointing to like a perfect Renaissance painting andbeing like, it needs one less.I'm like, all right, no, like fucking move on.So, all right.Deep cut though.Okay, deep cut, I'm kind of cheating.I'm going idiotic.
42:58This is not a deep cut.Justin, can you tell him this is not a deep cut at all?This is the best song on the album.How is this a deep cut, Cole?It is like one of the three most famous songs on this record, is it not?But there's technically no singles on this album, so I felt like I could just pick whatever I wanted.Oh, so I couldn't pick Aerodynamic for deep cut, but you can pick idiotic.All right, fucking fine, fine, fine.
43:23Fine, fine.Trina's resting right now, so I can't pull her into this.If an album doesn't have singles, then what is the deep...Is that the only requirement that it is not a single?This is shameful.I want 100% cheated.I'm sorry, this is my favorite album.I'll talk about it.
43:42I don't give a fuck.This should have been the best...This should have been the best song.This is a top five song of the 21st century.I love Ediotic, so much.If we get to the head to head and you feel like it's unfair,I'll pick another deep, more traditional deep cut.All right, all right.
43:58But just go cook.We have to talk about isiotic.This drumbeat is one of the,it's probably my favorite drumbeat of all time.I don't know, that might be an, actually, no, this is my favorite.I'm allowed to like what I want.This, this drumbeat is fucking phenomenal.You must agree, Charles, right?
44:15I sent y'all, like, the, like, I was listening to this.I'm like, I have to text someone.I vibe it.And when I tell you, when I was doing research for this,there were days where this was the only thing I listened to.I just would put it on repeat, do the dishes, go.I just could not.That is how infectious.
44:36This is the type of radio head shit that sends me up a wall.I love this song.Yeah, it's like, let's put it up on the screen now,but Johnny essentially made these drums from scratch on this, like,crazy analog modular synthesizer.It's like the size of a wall.wall. And it's, you know, what's impressive that they got sounds like this, like on their firstattempt essentially, like they weren't experimenting with a drum machine. I'm trying to think if
45:05they had a drum machine. They might have had some like some flourishes on Okin, OK computer, but I mean,K'day is the first time they're really steeping themselves into electronic drums. And to producedrums that sound this good on your first at bat is fucking crazy.Like these drums are so good.I mean, they, the story behind them is that they try to produce them as if they were being played so loud at a club that the speakers were blowing out.So that's like kind of the distortion that you hear was trying to create that effect.And just the pattern of the drums is just like, it's one of like, Dapunk is just one of the best at creating loops that you just literally want to hear forever.And Idiotech's drums, the drum loop of idioectomy is just one that I just never wanted to end.
45:50on top of that you get this to your tribute point this sample of and what I love about this songsymbolically is that it kind of contains the history of music in it because they sample one of thevery very very very first electronic pieces of music composed by Paul Lanski in 1973 and it's a partof this longer I think five or six minute piece we'll play the sample here reallyprimitive early computer music that was made on this early IBM computer that only had onemegabyte of storage and that they fed the the um how they programmed the sounds was likecardboard sheets that they would feed the computer with holes in it and that's how they wouldlike i don't know how it works um but that's how they would program the sounds that you hear and the
46:57whole piece that paul lansky wrote that radio had sampled is uh essentially experimentation on theTristan Chord, which is a, in music history, when I went to college, we talked about this chord a lot.It's like, again, Richard Wagner's coming up on, I think, every episode of this music andthis season.And Rickard Wagner is the most important composer of the 20th century.So it's, to me, it's very symbolic that the Tristan chord comes up on kind of that inflectionpoint of the 21st century that is being played on a primitive electronic, uh,classical piece that is then sampled
47:37and a piece that then would go on toinfluence the next generation, next century of electronic music.And so I love the symbolism ofthe sample that we get on top of the drums.And then, of course, Tom's voices, otherworldlyhe's singing about, I don't, I'm not quite sure what he's singing about.It's like about the Ice Age, about protecting the women and children first.It's like, there's not really a story, but it's like you get
48:02the overwhelming feeling of anxiety.anxiety and panic and like it reminds me of Y2K and the panic around that.I mean, if I could go my Mr. like culture brain, part of this, even if I don't think Tom,like, if I don't think Tom was like thinking about this, what I think the lyrics actuallycapture is the fact that the kids were not okay.Like Tom was not okay and like he's kind of locating.something that was happening, I think,in popular culture where it's like, okay,
48:39not only is the 24 news cycle now a thing,it's the only thing.It is warping our brains.Everything about culture, all of the inputs are,and that's what to me a lot of this record sounds like.It's so many inputs.We are finally at the dawn of the internet,almost all of information at one point,
49:02like is available to us.And sometimes I think because we're,that's just the world we're living.We're like, that's normal.I'm like, actually it's not.And to have a song to your pointthat is like bridging the gapbetween 20th century,
49:1621st century,talking about like the ice ageand save the women and children.Like, that's deep to me.Even if maybe it's a little bit more abstract.When I'm listening to the song,that's what it sounds like to me.It sounds like a canary in the coal mine
49:34at the beginning of the 2000s being like,hey, yo, y'all are not ready for what is coming.You are all about to feel like Tom York very, very soon.Yeah, and it's like, again, to their credit about scoring the themeand the heart of the song, like, again,you feel the sense of panic and the frenetic energy of the music itselfis accentuating that feeling that he's singing about in the lyrics.All right, what's the best moment?
50:00Okay, best momentA little bit harder with these records, right?Because we're kind of, it's like not everythingas documented as it is today.Specifically with Kid A, like they made it a pointnot to do any press, not to do any interviews.There's a lot of great lore around the recordin terms of like they were sending
50:19for pre-listens of the album to their record label.They would essentially get all the executives on a busand they would play the album from start to finish on the busand then they would have to leave the bus.So they weren't distrable.like the record beforehand.I think this is the album where they also distributed it on cassette tape that was glued into the cassette player.So you couldn't fast forward.
50:41You have to play it from beginning to end.But in terms of like moment, at least for me, the one that I think would at least has some kind of national or global impact or like at least a moment that a lot of people could remember that is documented is the performance of national anthem on Saturday Night Live.which is one of my favorite pieces of like,like just the open,I don't know if you watch the whole thing, Charles,but like they opened on a shot of Johnny like hunched overthis AMFM radio like some like historic alienand he's like twisting the knobs on this AMFM radio
51:18that he's sampling in real time and then he like a couple moments laterhe's playing the owns Martino,this weird keyboard with the slider control.Tom's going crazy and it's like,natural anthem is another great.great song on you know i was mad that you didn't this is like my set national anthem is my secondfavorite song off this record after edio tech i was like when we gonna talk about it this is the waythis is how i snuck it in in because not only is in a great song but like live you can see all the
51:46parts coming to life so you see them they brought on a you know a six piece horn section that playsall the app track like charles mingis like free jazz uh horns that you hear um and tom's jumping upand down. That's how he queued. Apparently, that's how he queued them in the studio when he wanted toplay. Tom would jump up and down. And apparently, he jumped so high and so crazily that he brokehis ankle, recording the national anthem. But you see a piece of that in the S&L performance, him jumpingup and down. And I just love the fact that it's like, okay, again, historically, coming off OKcomputer, OK, OK, computer being revolutionary and experimental in its own right, but it still has hitslike Karma Police. It still has no surprises. It has,
52:29All these songs, you can really, singer-songwriter, like great melodies, great hooks.And then that same band, you know, less than a couple years later, come on this national stage,giving up this fucking crazy outlandish performance.It's just like, it's such a moment to me.I don't know.What did you feel when you were watching it?I mean, it was funny where it was like, I knew what you wanted me to watch because you had sent a Reddit link.And I was like, I'll watch it on YouTube.
52:54And I could not find it on YouTube.Yeah.I had to go back to Reddit.Yeah.And great, like, phenomenal performance.Fucking York is, like, he is fucking going for it.He's just losing his mind.I was also just like, can you imagine being in the audience being like,
53:09yo, what the fuck is happening right now?I thought it...What I love about both bands,radiohead and daft punk, is I would argue that their live performancesalmost beat out the recording in terms of just, like,understanding what they were going for.and capturing that energy.Like, I already loved National Anthem as a song,
53:33but seeing this performance made me love it 10 times more.It was like, I was like, oh, shit.Because I had never watched this performance before.It was amazing.It was so good.Yeah, to their credit, too, they adapted all these songs live.So great.Like, they have a live record after Amnesiac.
53:48That's really good.Dap Punk has a great live record.It kind of made me miss live records because they adapted all these songs for live performancewhere all the band would play.so they figure out a way to arrange them.Yeah.And so National Anthem is one where it gets so climactic,even Idiotek with the layered drums of like Johnny's playing those electronic drums,
54:07but then the real drummer comes over them.And it's just like, it's so good.Are we already done with Kid A?We are.I feel like we just,we must have been talking for over an hour.It feels like five.Here's the thing.
54:18I wasn't going to, this was your episode because I think a lot of the listeners have also been like,oh, with this exercise, will you guys be able to disqualify?will you guys be able to discuss other genres?And I'm just like, let me let my boy call cook.Because I've never seen you smile.I've seen you talk about Kendrick.I ever see you smiling like this, though.Radiohead means something to you.
54:39It really does.I mean, it's actually, it's like,because as much as I love Kendrick,it came out when I was older.Yeah.Like this came out at the,my neurons were still like adapting, you know?It's like, this is like you cut me open and like this is in my blood, man.
54:54Like this album.way that you can't like a tip of a butterfly as as brilliant as that is it just came out i was tooold when it came out it's just it can't affect you in the same way as music when you're in your young20s man it's just like there's something about it i was actually going to ask you um before we move on todaft punk do you have an album like kid a like what is you you see the excitement you see how it isin my blood like do you have that record uh it discovery is one of them actually oh really okay andKanye West college dropout was one.That was like I remember where I was
55:29begging my parents for it.I can remember every like the thingsthat I actually miss is like I miss liner notes.Like I had the liner notes to some of these recordswhere I would just like open and just like study itand judge the art.It was that college dropout is probably the one.And then when I was a teenager a little bit older,
55:49I think I was like, I want to say college,Young Thug was that for me.Young Thug was a rapper where I was just like,I remember hating him.I remember hating him.I was like, what the fuck is this?And then literally within the course of two or three weeks,I was like, this is the future of music.
56:05And if anybody ever tells me different, I will kill that.Guys, when are we doing the Young Thug last song standing?Cole.Cole.Cole.Cole.That might need to be you at Justin's season.And I'll be the producer on that one.
56:19All right.Well, you're, I don't want to spoil my cultural.exchange later, but are we ready to dip into some daft punk?I'm so excited, yes. Let's do it. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back.Daph Bunk's Discovery. All right. We are back discussing one of my favorite projects of alltime. Dap Punk's sophomore album Discovery released on March 12th, 2001. The 14th song projectwas held by Tomas and Guy Manuel with help from Romantany, New Jersey Native, DJ Sneak,and Todd Edwards also a New Jersey native.
56:56So for any of you all out there, New Jersey, my home state, we fucking doing this shit.Discovery spawned six singles.One more time, aerodynamic, digital love, harder, better, faster, stronger, face-to-face,and something about us.The album, surprisingly, was only nominated for two awards at the 44th annual Grammys,best dance recording for one more time, and best pop instrumental performance for short circuit,and the project has sold 2.8 million copies globally.And what I can say about this record is,
57:28I remember where I was as a kid when I not only heard one more time,but I saw one more time.Because if people don't remember,the video is based on this anime, Interstellar 5555.And when I was a kid,we were on vacation at a mall.And I want to say,do you remember Sam Goodies, Cole?
57:55Yep.I want to say I was walking by Sam Goodyand the one more time video was playing.So I saw this anime of blue peopleand I'm hearing the auto tune trackor singing.And as a kid, I'm still very young.I was born in 1992.
58:13This album comes out in 2001.So what would that make me nine?I was nine and I was like, wait, music videos can just be anime?And it could be blue people.The person's singing, their voice is allowed to sound like this for the entire, like it was, that sounds so stupid to like a 20, 25, like our sensibilities because this is all music is now.But as a kid, music for so long to me is like a very linear thing.Like you brought up Bob Dylan with the electric guitar.People don't know an electric guitar is something that you can use and manipulate and can be the foundation of a genre until somebody fucking does it.
59:01And the same thing, whether we're talking about sampling or autotune or vocoder and this record to me, when I think about the music I love, whether it's, it awaits in heartbreak, futures monster.a bunch of pop music.Just this to me is the foundation of that of, of knowing that you can get so weird and you can use an instrument in the wrong way.And both members of Daft Punk talk about that a lot making this record where there was this wave of critical backlash where critics were like, why are you using shit like this?This is not how music is supposed to sound.But as a kid, what they even said about this record, if I can pull it up, they said to, Tomas said to remix Mag, this album has a lot to do with our childhood and the memories of the state we were in at that stage of our life. It's about our personal relationship to that time. It's less of a tribute to the music from 1975 to 1985 as an era and more about focusing on the time when we were zero to 10 years old. When you're a child, you don't judge or analyze music, you just like it because you like it. And when I read that, like,Like I almost started tearing up because that was how this music one more time,harder, better, faster, stronger, digital love.
01:00:22That's what it felt like as a kid.I had no reference for Chicago House, for Romant for Romantany, for anything that I was hearing.But the nostalgia of it, the kid like wonder of it, the chops, it just connected with me in such a way.And it opened up just so much of my understanding.What's your relationship with Discovery like?Yeah, I admittedly came onto discovery in Daft Punk a little late.Of course, I knew one more time and around the world, and I'd seen the music videosand stuff, but it wasn't, that time wasn't seeking it out.
01:00:58So I want to, I feel like, I mean, so much going back to the studying this album and the historybeyond it, it was kind of a slow burn.Like, they're still releasing singles like a few years after it comes out.It feels like it got bigger and bigger and bigger over the course of a couple of years.I feel like I don't remember it coming out aside from one more time, just kind of being everywhere.But once I went down the rabbit hole, oh, man, I mean, it was this, it was radio head, it wasthen that just was great about both of these artists kind of putting electronic music in the forefrontfor people like me back then that didn't really have a gateway into it.
01:01:36It did give you that starting point.And through then, then you can start digging a little deeper into French house.then you can start digging a little deeper into the Warp Records catalog and all those artists, you know.And so it was definitely a gateway into electronic music.And then from there, I mean, in the same way radio had influenced, you know, my band at the time.Daph Punk, I would say, I don't know, I can't really depict, Discovery might be the most influential to me personally,but it was just more about Daph Punk.Like just them, their sound, their approach.
01:02:10and I mean, I could pull up songs that sound exactly like daft bunk that I made, you know, in my early 20s because I was just listening to it so much and I was studying how they're putting these songs together because like musically, they're so talented at one, like they're kind of Kanye in the way that like they just have a fucking great ear for samples.Yeah.It's just they, not just the samples, how they chop the samples, how they chop it three, four times and then stitch it back.together and when you see it done, like there's a lot of, like, I'm sure you'll be showing us yourfavorites. But guys, I'm telling you, just go on YouTube, type in Dapunk samples and you will literallysee some of the greatest chopping you've ever seen in recorded music. And it's like,and to their credit though, too, it's like one, they recognize catchy, catchy samples. And this is,I think, what contrasts them with electronic music at the time, which was, you know, industrial house
01:03:09music. It can get very cold and kind of gritty and like hypnotic and it like I love that stuff.But Daft Punk were so good at especially with this record purposely grabbing samples that were likecatchy, melodic, harmonically rich and warm and maintaining that warmth with the chops in the sameway Kanye does, maintains the warmth of the soul sample, recontextualizes it with a hip-hop beat.how fun we're doing the same thing,taking disco samples,recontextualizing it withelectronic drums,
01:03:41but the warmth and just that feelingthat you get,the addictive feeling that you just want to hear it.You want to hear one more time.You don't want it to stop.You know,they just create these loops that are like hooks,you know?
01:03:54I was so obsessed with like,how exactly they did that.How do they stack all these sounds togetherwithout it sounding chaotic,which, again,electronic music,it's so easy to,make chaos out of loops and layers and blips and effects.
01:04:07And it's like they maintain a purity,a crystallized, like singular sound that is just like,and it's mixed really well.So it's like not,even though it was like a song like face to face has like 70 samples,it's like it still feels like a pop record,which is like incredibly hard.We take it for granted.
01:04:26The line that they're threading with this record,which is being technically brilliant,virtuosos of electronic,instruments and synths and programming.And a lot of times I can get ugly, just like a guitar solo, like, we don't want to hearlike a great guitarist masturbating just to, you know, to get himself off.It's like, it's got to be musical still.And to their credit, they're masters at technical brilliance mixed with pop sensibilities,
01:04:53keeping everything accessible.Like this record is just like, it's again, it's kind of like kid A in terms of just likethe music learned like me or even Kevin.I know Kevin really loves this record.It gives us so much to get our music nerd stuff off.But at the same time, my mom likes one more time.You know, we can put on harder, bit, or faster, stronger.That becomes a number one hit with Kanye's sample.
01:05:18And that's for good reason because, like, they, that essentially is a hook that Kanyethen re-contextualized.So it's like, I don't know, it's just like, there's just so good at balancing that line,which I think is incredibly hard to do.And I think it's funny when I was listening to Kid A,you're like Kid A is almost radio head surrendering to the fact that they don't need to rely so heavily on traditional song structure.And to me, Discovery is an electronic group finding the love in song structure.Because to your point, like, this is a pop record to me.
01:05:52And when I mean a pop record where it's like it's not just when the guitar solos on digital love or aerodynamic come in,they're not just masturbating to just show you they can shred on the guitar.It feels like it is taking you on a fucking journey.It is there for a reason.Harder, better, faster, stronger is such a perfect pop artifact.And that's what I love of like the jump from homework, which is an incredible record to discovery, is like them being like, all right, we're actually locking in and showing you that like electronic is not just the future.It's going to be the present.but do you have some
01:06:31questions for mesome albumalbum triviaI doI have a few questionsI add some backupsin case you wentcrazy hard on me
01:06:39so I'm gonnasince youthrow me a softballwe shouldalso remind listenersthat this isbuilding up to the seasonfinale so whoever has the most
01:06:47pointsthe accumulated pointsover the courseof the seasongets a mystery prizethat we haven'tgot any muchmuch hints on
01:06:54Justin has bought themhe told mehe told me off miche's bought them alreadyI have receivedthem. I told Charles, I'm not sure if they're good, but they are very funny to me. Are they cursed?How cursed are they? I think that they are both very cursed in very specific ways. I'm so excitedfor this. Fuck yeah. Okay. All right. All right. So question number one, you're going to think
01:07:18it's easy, but then it gets a little twist. Question one, Daftunk claims they transformed intorobots after a virus called the 9-999 bug attacked their hardware. Quote, we do not choose tobecome robots. There was an incident in our studio. We were working on our sampler and exactly9.09 a.m. on September 9th, 1999, it exploded. When we regained consciousness, we discovered that wehave become robots. I love this shit. And the story changes. There's like a few interviews thatthey mentioned this story and it's always a little bit different, which I love it. In reality,the robot helmets were created by a special effects expert named Tony Gardner.daf punk were introduced to garner through a now famous film director do you know the famous film director
01:08:05who introduced tony garner the special effects person to daft punk to create the helmetsthis is good this is a good fucking question for a half point reduction i'll give you a hintno because i think i want to say it's gondry no you're so close oh fuck it's not it's notit's you're so close fuck it's what's one to let's one to let's one to let's onedegree away from from gondry not fridgeAmericanfuck this is a really good questionwhen Charles is going to give up can I guess
01:08:39do you want the hit?Wait wait wait no I don't want the hintOh no no no Google searchNo no no I'm not Google searchingA laptop open right over himWhat I'm not no no no no no spike JonesYes but you justNo no I literally
01:08:54Because I literally typed in and we canI could show you the historyI typed in her because I knew who I wasbut I was just like the name was not thereand I had to type in the first weekI was like her I was Spike Jonesif it wasn't Gondon it was Spike JonesOkay well wait wait wait wait wait
01:09:08You were like oh II definitely know this oneBut you had to type in her to get the nameJustin I have been in fucking San DiegoTalking about comic booksAnd then in the fucking Poconosplaying with monkeys and fucking pigsMy mind is suit
01:09:27Like her was the first movieSpike Joe'sI remembered. Relax.Cole, do you feel okay with this?I'll give them the point.Hell, yeah.Should it be a half point?I, look.
01:09:41You're the judge.I am.I'm kind of consideringplayground rules on this.You call a foul if you want a fall.So do you want to take half point away from him for that?No, it's fine.It's fine.
01:09:53Okay.Hell yeah.So question number two for you is an anime-related.And Discovery's companion anime film,Stella 5555, an alien band is kidnapped from their planet and brought to Earth. Their minds areerased and they are programmed to be an American band that immediately becomes extremely popular.What is the name of this band in the film? Crescendos? Nice job. Two for two. Come on. Give me,I don't even need a point on the next one. Just give me the last one. Come on, bro. I love that punk.
01:10:26All right. Okay. I think you're still in the lead by a hair in ourin the tally overall season tally great job though two for two all right we ready to get intothe categories i'm so ready to i'm so curious to know what you picked and see if it overlaps with mypicks because what's the best song on this it's not clear to this song is actually i have the onethat i i think i'm going to go with but i might go to you and and just in i have to change my mindall right okay so biggest song was easy lead single from discovery one more time one more time the songfeatures Rom Anthony and a sample of the1979 song More Spell on You
01:11:13by Eddie Jones.Dap Punk considered this a bridge from the previousalbum, Homework. They said, homework wasa way to say to the Rock Kids, thatelectronic music is cool,while Discovery was the opposite.It was a way of saying to the electronic kids,rock is cool, which I think is like,
01:11:32once you kind of unlock that,you're just like, oh, the guitar solos make sense.The anime makes sense.And to their credit,Like, Daft Punk had rock bona fides.Like, these are guys who can play their instruments.They know them very fucking well.And one more time to me is something that before this, this episode, I took it for granted.
01:11:55And I don't know.Exact same feeling.Exact same feeling.Continue.Because I, because I had heard it so much as a child.And then I don't know if you had this experience would go, like, listening to Kid A,where I'm like, okay, let me do the thing that I try to.to do is like take away everything and just try to listen to this like you were an alien who just
01:12:14came here and it reminded me of when I heard it as a child where the vocals on this are solush and it's like liquid and it is it reminded me of hearing vocals tampered with in this waybecause Tomas said to DJ Chimes like people were coming at.at them. I had forgotten, like, this had kind of gotten mixed reviews in terms of the wholealbum. And he said, quote, criticizing the vocoder is like asking bands in the 60s,why do you use the electric guitar? It's just a tool. The healthy thing is that people eitherloved it or hated it. At least people were not neutral. And to my kid brain, I thought thatthis was the coolest thing that I had ever heard. And I think once again, we take for granted that
01:13:07at this point in the daft punk legend,this is only their second project.They're still new to the helmets.To your point,there's a lot of their origin storythat they're like tweaking into the moment,and they're still new enough as a bandwhere sometimes they're acting like they're the robots
01:13:26in interviews,and other times they're just themselves,they're just Tomas,and, and, uh,what you'll call the guy.But there was something.about this song kind of like hearing it that it's so beautiful. The lyrics are so simple.And it in the same way that kid A put you in a trance, one more, one more time. It just puts you in a
01:13:52trance where it's undeniable. And you're, you're almost like, okay, I'm transported back into thisnostalgic, nostalgic feeling. I'm going to go on this intergalactic ride with these weirdfucking robots and you surrender to it. And one more time.is actually a song where I write to this album a lot.Like I put on this album when I just need to zone out.Usually I skip one more time because I've just heard it too much.And one more time was the song off this project where this last two or three weeks where I was like,oh, this was always genius.
01:14:25This was always a genius record.What is it about one more time that you kind of like fell in love with again, Cole?Yeah, it was the same exact experience.You know, it's just one of those songs that, yeah, you do take it for granted.you are kind of sick of hearing it,but I will say even before this exercise,the true mark of this song is like when you hear it out.When you hear it at a club or, you know,
01:14:46it always works.It always works.I remember the dance club I used to go to in the early 2000s,around this time,the DJ that we'd always go see,he would always close with this song.Every single time,we knew it was coming and it fucking worked.
01:15:02And yeah, I was going to ask,was there ever a time where it didn't workor every single time people were like,Hell yeah, still fucking whips.Yeah, it's perfect.I mean, Justin, was this in your DJ repertoire?Was this, is this something you went to or was it too obvious by then?What you have to consider is in the 2007, 2008, and this is like post the pyramid performance,
01:15:24which I think will probably come up right.Like, Dap Punk has this rebirth or this rediscovery period that ends up kicking off the wholelike hipster house movement and like this song.just stays in rotation, daft punk stays in rotation. And then daft punk gets even bigger in like2013 with like more normy crowds with you know random access memories and everything on thatferal song and everything. So this song while it might have gotten tired to DJs at a certainpoint just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger with different kinds of audiences for basicallymy entire DJ career. I no longer DJ. I don't know if I maybe if I go put it on, if you put me in front of
01:16:11turntables and I have to play in the club right now, maybe they just start throwing cans of tomatoes at me.I don't know how it works. But up until at least like 2015, 2016 when I stepped out of the game,the song will still go off. Yeah. All right. Do you want me to break down the sample really quick?Because this was another thing that like it's pretty broken down a lot. It won't take that long.But I think for anyone that hasn't heard the chops, it does. It gives you.it's a really good piece of evidenceof just how one,like their ear for just specific chords
01:16:41and just like simplebut like technically brilliant.So let me just all play.I'll say this.If you weren't going to play it,I was like,yo,can we go in and post and play it
01:16:52when I say what it samples?I'm ready because literallyI smoke a lot of weed.I was smoking weedand just watching Tapbook sample videoswere like the DJs,like I was just like watching the chopsand I was mesmerized.
01:17:06Play it for the people.It's fucking genius.Yeah, I will say, like, this whole exercise has caught me thinking, like, is Daft Punkthe next season of Daysect?Like, oh, yes.We're going to let next season of last long standing would be so fun.Okay.Okay, so like you said, original sample source is more spell on you by Eddie Jones,
01:17:251979.What's interesting about this album, I look through basically every sample that's on here,and it's like, with just like one or two exceptions, it is in every,every single sample is from1975 to 1985like they are really trueto that conceptof the nostalgia of when they were kids
01:17:41this is what we werewe were listening toand I don't knowif they were likefucking aroundI read some shitwhere it's likea lot of their
01:17:52collaboratorswere like one of their collaboratorsI forget wholike actually like postedafter a bunch of yearsI found like the discthe floppy with all my samplesbut I was reading
01:18:02that punkwas saying that they playthey replayed a lot of the samples.And I was just like, oh, interesting.So I'm just like, when I have more time,I want to do more research on like,what was an actual just sample sample?And what did they actually like just replay?
01:18:17And then sample what they replayed.Yeah, it's hard to tell.And you know, like you go on like who sampled and they'll give you the actual samples.But then there's so many little blips and like glitches that could be samples or could bethem recreating samples.Like it's so unclear.That's part of the mis like the.midst of this album. It's like, is the guitar solo, quote, unquote, on digital love, a guitar or a
01:18:40synth? Like, it's not, it's not actually clear. I think it's a synth, but I think like it sounds somuch like a guitar that you actually, there's debate on Reddit if it's a guitar or not. And there's,there's just so much lore around the album, partly because they didn't explain it much. They didn'tdo much interviews. And so there is, like, it's so technically brilliant that people like-for people to find all of the samples on face to face.Like,that was going to,spoiler alert was going to be like my best deep cut,
01:19:05but it can't because it was a single.But like,yeah,there were like years where people like,were debating what,where all of the samples are.Yeah.So,
01:19:13all right.So,all right.So,all right.So here's the original.The original,I'll just play it straight as it is on the vinyl.
01:19:20Okay.So good.So good on its own, right?But,and it's like this really high.It's climbing.And so they just take three.chords from that ascending chord sequence.
01:19:44Here's the three chords and they pitched them down.So here's the first chord.Okay, so just those three, exactly how they just kind of cut in and out is exactly how they're sampled.And so it's like, again, this is like these are tools.Now what do you do with the chops?Like this is where the magic happens, right?It's not only identifying those three chords, anyone can do that.How do you put them together?
01:20:12how do you rearrange them and here's how they do that.So they essentially take the second chord that they sample and they play that as the tonic.They play that as the first chord and it's this two chord sequence that goes back and forth.That has a really brilliant detail that I'm going to point out after I play the whole chord sequence.It's like, because it's like, yeah, that was the loop.I played the loop and then it transitions into the actual song and you hear the filtering they put on in.and then the, of course, the drumbeat that they put behind it.But I did want to point out, like, one detail,
01:21:05because these are the kind of details that separate Daft Punkfrom everyone else in terms of, like, sampling, understanding,what makes a good sample, what makes a good loop,is that the way that they sample the second chord in the,in this loop here.So that core, that second chord that just comes in for that one measure,that one beat, they, it's not played on the downbeat.They sample a little bit before the chord hit so that the chord hit happens on the upbeat.
01:21:42And so essentially just this little moment of syncopation,let me play you the chord sequence without that little moment of syncopation on that second chord,and you'll just instantly change how the loop feels.Can you hear the difference there?Yeah.On that last chord, if it's played just on the downbeat, it's not as rhythmic.It doesn't give you that kind of hypnotic sense of that loop.And then let me just play it back to back with the syncopation of that last chord.
01:22:20It's just that one little detail, that one little detail that changes the entire kind of feeling of the entire group.You hear the difference of that?Yeah.Yeah.You're a genius, call.You're a genius.Well, that DaFung's a genius.It's just like, that's, again, it's just like, there's millions of those little choices that they make that this is what separates.
01:22:52daft prank from everyone else. This is why they're the best.Cole, Cole, I don't want to hijack this, but could you play that other one again?The non-syncopated one? The non-sane. Yeah, the one they didn't do. Yeah.No, no. It sounds so wrong. It sounds so wrong. It's like feeling of just like a deflatedballoon almost. What do you hear the other version of where I'm just like, oh, there are, that's,that's genius work. Let me just tell you, 99 out of 100 produced.do the non-seek competed version.Like, because that's where, like, when you're getting chops,
01:23:36like you look for the start of a chord hit because that's like,it keeps you on beat in the same way that that first chord,that's what gives you the groove is because it's hitting the downbeat.And even if you're doing automated chops,like if you're asking the sampler to like identify the beats,it's always usually going to always give you the start of the beat,never halfway, you know, never halfway.So again, it's just like that.
01:24:00just literally like a half measure little tweak or half beat tweak and it's like it makes thefucking loop like it makes the loop all right guys now we have to talk about best song and this iswhere I might need some help okay because I could make the argument that discovery has likethe best first five song run of almost any album likeone more time aerodynamicdigital love harder better fasterstronger Chris Chen dolls isfucking insane
01:24:38it's likethink aboutthat seemed to me in the category of likewhen you look at thriller like thriller iswant to be starting something baby be minethe girl is mine thrilleris like and then you have beat itit's just you're like oh
01:24:55fucking shit they some having to pick myit was going to be betweendigital love was in the running.Digital love, like at any given time, I think is my favorite song off this album.Okay.Aerodynamic or harder, better, faster, stronger.See, it might be your deep cut, but like my best song out of this exercise was face to face.
01:25:23I couldn't.I wanted to pick face to face in deep cut, but I can't because it is not a deep cut.It's so good, though.We have to talk about it.We're going to talk about it.face to face.Yeah.Now.
01:25:36Justin,do you have a clearbest song?Do you have a clear best song?My heart wants to saydigital love,but I don't want to go with my heartbecause I want to win this exercise.
01:25:49It's not,yeah,I mean,look,I have to say thatevery time I put on this recordand another song comes on,I think that the next song
01:26:02is maybe the best song I've ever heard.And then the next songis maybe the best songI've ever heard. Like, something about us is not going to get picked in this category, but whensomething about us is on, like, you're thinking that might be one of the best songs you couldever possibly listen to. I, I mean, before I pick, I'm going to, like, I want to talk to Coleabout something because can we decide what guitar solo do you like more, aerodynamic or digitalBecause I'm an aerodynamic boy, but Digital Love's guitar solo, they're both so fucking good.
01:26:42What I love about digital, digital love, like to me, the moment I picked out in how to disappear completely, the strings and all that, like, digital love, guitar, synth solo, whatever you want to call it, is just as euphoric.That is the best moment on the entire album to me by fucking a mile.That is transcendent in a way that is so rare to reach in pop music.and it's unexpected because you're not ever expecting a guitar,guitar in quotes,solo and not that good on a daft punk record.It's like it functions like a legit guitar solo,even though it's like on a song that shouldn't really have a guitar solo.
01:27:20It's kind of like the Kanye Delano New Dress,where it's like,only daft punk would think to put a synth guitar solo on this kind of a balladand just transcendent, take it to a whole other dimension,like SpongeBob fucking transcendent,me like just it's I mean in my heart digital love just that moment alone edges it out over anythingelse although I will say if you're trying to debate between that or harder better faster strongerthe talk box solo I can I can just play it for you the talk box solo on harder better faster
01:27:53stronger is fucking phenomenal all right before we talk about that let's play a little bit of the guitarsolo from digital law can you play that for us really really quick because I just need to hear itI've got to learn this.I didn't have enough time to learn it,but I'm definitely learning this solo.It's so good.Let me pick it out real quick.It is.
01:28:32Can you play a little bit of aerodynamic?I'm,I'm so stuck between these three.Those parts do not make sense together.They don't.They don't make,I mean,it's like a live DJ mix on the actual song,
01:28:54and it's like,it's perfect.Like,it's so perfect.All right.They're perfect.I'm so sorry, guys.I'm not going to, like, in my heart, I think if I had like gun to my head, it would probably
01:29:07be digital love.Digital love actually makes me cry sometimes in terms of just like what I love in music.In my heart, I would probably pick digital love.I think just for the culture, one more time and harder, better, faster, stronger aretwo sides of the same coin.And in terms of like, I think because of the Kanye song, I think because of the resurgence,the resurgence that harder, better, faster, stronger has, we take it for granted.but in terms of just like,
01:29:33I can like listen to harder, better,faster, stronger and be like,all right, 90% of pop music sounds like this.We take it for granted.There's a reason why Connie fucking sampled it.I think the sample that this is based on1979's Cola Bottle Baby by Edwin Birdsong,do you have it up for like,
01:29:53if people hear the sample of this,I'm just like, oh, this,when you were talking about the warmthof the samples that they were picking,in terms of like this genre of I believe Tomas was talking about what was interesting about this record is like they're taking samples from when disco was not at its height anymore when it was almost on its way out and they were in love with Chicago House and talking about like going back to that feeling of when they didn't like these creators and these house producers did not have a lot to work with.and the innovation that comes through that.And honestly, we can put this in post.If we can play a little bit of Cola Bottle Baby,
01:30:38just to show you just like how genius these guys are making this type of music.Yeah, it's interesting because the loop is pretty much verbatim.It's except for speeding it up a little bit.But then how they develop the song with the vocal cord.How it, like, not crochet, but like how they develop it in terms of just like,then they add the talk boxthen they add like the talk box solofucking incredible
01:31:10the I got it queued up you want to hear itI want to hear it play it okayand then the breakdownthat's so goodonce again because I feel likethe Kanye strongeris so at the forefront of my mindsometimes once again
01:31:45I skip pass harder better faster strongerthat I forget about the talk box soloI forget about the breakdownI forget about how they are using a very, just a simple loop.And almost like, for other producers, they would probably be like, this is too many elements.This is very like, once you take the loop, once you take the lyrics and the performance, and then you take the process of vocals, and then you're breaking it down and rebuilding it back up.This is a very complex song.But it works.
01:32:17When it hits your ears, it's so simple.I wrote down in my notes.I'm like, something about the talk box cuts through your ears like fucking butter.It's like so smooth.I love harder, better, faster, stronger.I'm going to pick it for best song, even though I want to pick digital logs.I'm going to super, super skate by worst song.Like I had it written down.
01:32:52Like this is like choosing one of like, this is like killing off one of my kids.I think I'm going to go with a night vision.and not because Night Vision is bad.It's just more so like a transition record to me.And it's just coming off the high of those first couple songs.It is not a bad song.Do not attack me.If you love Night Vision.
01:33:25It is the perfect.I get why you're picking it because it's kind of a,it's a technicality essentially.But I don't think the sequence of Harder,Better, Faster, Stronger, Crescendo dolls,which is fucking phenomenal.I want to point something out about that song when we get to Deep Cut.That song is so high energy and essentially like you need night vision in the sequence of the album.
01:33:49You like absolutely need it.In the same way the interludes on Kidae you need.Like after national anthem, after, you know, there are songs on the album where you actually need a breather.You need those interludes.If this is a world they're creating and the sequencing is just as important as the individual song to the experience of the record,They can't take Night Vision out of the rest of the...Grendles into superheroes without the gap of Night Visionbecause both of those are very intense,
01:34:17not intense, but they are like very high octane.Like, oh my God.Like you feel the adrenaline.Night Vision does give you a very, very clean segue.And that is, before I get to my best deep cut,let's use this time to like talk about what could it make it.The first aerodynamic we alreadytalked about that is a second song it's a single i couldn't choose that now face to face is the 13th song
01:34:48but it is also a single and i think if we can even have two or three minutes to talk aboutface to face as a song like this is actually what i wanted to pick in deep cut but i justaccording to our rules even though you cheated with ediotech i can't pick face to face but thiswas actually going to be my you can you can you can pick it i bent the rules if you want toFace the fucking face.Face the fucking face is so fucking good.The amount, I think there, how many samples are on this song?Like, I kept reading different stories.
01:35:32It's one of the, I actually don't want to name a number because it could be anywherefrom like 40 to 70 from what I, I couldn't get a clear number.But there's a video online where it's just like, they play each sample.And it's like, Cole, if we want to play just like a few of them and then like play the song,it is a level of where if if radiohead was searching and learning how to reform quote unquote a rock song with all these new instruments,face to face to me is just like a perfect example of how electronic musicians and producers and DJs think about music differently and how they can use chopping and use sampling and reconstitute something.into one of, I think face to face is one of the greatest songs and greatest accomplishments of the21st century. I cannot gush about this song enough. Why do you love it so much, Cole?
01:36:32It's like maybe the one song that shows that that balance that I'm talking about with them,which is like, this is a technical masterpiece. It is a masterwork of, if you want to know,like virtuosic, what does it mean to be a virtuoso of electives?music, which is a little more abstract than like, you know, guitar.You can watch a player just fucking shred and you can get it.It's like I see the visual of like your fingers moving really fast.What is the equivalent of that in electronic music?Well, it's this fucking song because the amount of, well, I'll dissect a little bit of
01:37:08the chops that they do.But it's like there is the, again, the ear for sampling, the technical ability to know howto chop it, how to affect it correctly, and then to assemble, let's say 40 to70, let's say 40, let's just say 40, 40 different sample clips into something into a mosaic thatmakes sense that still registers as a pop song. That is one of the hardest things you can do inmusic is like that much technical mumbo jumbo, like again, masturbatory stuff doesn't alwaysmake the most palatable music that you want to hear yet this song does both brilliantly.You know who's a producer who does something similar? Do you remember when girl talk, like first
01:37:49started popping where I actually like Girl Talk as a producer like a very talented producer.But to your point, a lot of his early, early music does to me doesn't achieve what face toface does where it's like a lot like almost it was showing you.It was a showy version of this of picking like 20, 30, 40 fucking songs.And you can tell where face to face to me is like if you're not concentrating it,it just like you sometimes won't even notice that they've introduced another.sample into it. Right. Yeah. Okay. So one, and what I love about this song, too, is that Todd Edwards is aco-producer on the song, and Todd Edwards is kind of the architect of this style. Let me just play you a
01:38:30quick, quick clip of a Todd Edward song from 1996. So this is, you know, predates discovery by fiveyears or so. And you'll hear the same kind of like small sample chops assembled into like amelody essentially. So let me just play a small clip of that. Right. So you hear,the little, the really small half a second chops and then assembled into a mosaic. Not quite ascatchy, but you could still see the foundation of what they end up doing on face to face. They bring inTodd Edwards for the song and they do a similar thing. And I think they tried to get them on homework,didn't they? Like earlier they were trying to collaborate with them and it wasn't until this recordwhere they, and I think Romantany might have been a similar thing where it was like they weren't
01:39:25established enough yet. And by the second record, they are literally bringing in the people that they hadlike name dropped on teachers to like come help them with this transformational project.Yeah.So let me just run through.I picked just a few samples and I didn't do these chops myself.I'll link the video that I shared to you that goes through every single chop on the song.But the foundation, the really traditional sample is the electric electric light orchestrasample that let me just play it right here.
01:39:57So that little, dagadagga, dagga, dagda.They take that moment here.So let's play that here.So that's the traditional kind of foundation.It's a longer sample.It's rhythmic.You can kind of define the beats there.And so that becomes the foundation.
01:40:23But then this is where they start to get crazy.So I have two examples, but then we're going to just use our imagination in terms of like they did what I'm about to do with these two sample examples, like 40 different.times. So here is a sample ofCarrie Lewis, sometimes love goes wrong from 1982.Okay, so from this sample, here's what they took from it. That's it.Let me play it one more time. That's all. Same thing with this next one. So RockyRobbins, 1981, nothing like love. Okay, here's what they sample from it. That's all.And so use your imagination times this by 20, 40 times.
01:41:19All these little bloop, boop, boom,become assembled into a mosaic that ends up sounding like this.It's like when you're listening to that,you don't register 40 samples, 40 different songs all spliced together.It's just a fucking great groove.And then when you dissect it, it's like, Jesus, like, how did they do this?It's like a master of work.And so, but here's a really interesting theory.
01:41:53I need to just lay out for you quickly that I don't know if I buy and I want your opinion on.So are you aware that the vocal samples for that main loop we just heard actually might say something that actually might have lyrics in them?Yes.Oh, you have heard this theory.I haven't heard this theory.But like when I listen to it, it's, I'd never been able to locate what they're saying.Like I've never looked up the lyrics.I'm just like, it's a daft punk song.
01:42:18But it's something like, it's the love on or something like that.Like, yeah, okay, so you're picking up on the melody.Yes.So let me, I'm going to isolate each of the vocal chops.And then I'm going to tell you what I think they say, what the theory is, what they say.And then when you hear it in context in the actual song, once I heard the lyrics like that are supposed to be implied, I can't unhear it now.And it's really fucking cool.So, okay, so here's the first vocal chop comes from an Alan Parsons song from the 70s.
01:42:53So just that list.little chan is the first vocal chop here's the second one from another alan parsons song uh fromthe 70s so here's what he grabs from that so that's the one you're identifying the uh that's the mostrecognizable one so those two chops together when you combine them how they hear in the songsound like this so that's one lyric it doesn't sound like a lyric yet but stay with me here nextNext sample chop is the most recognizable one.So here is a Kenny Loggins song.Shout out Kenny Loggins from 1971.
01:43:37House and Pooh Corner.Okay, here comes the chop from that.And a second chop.Okay, does that sound like anything to you yet?No.Not yet.Here's the last chop.electric light orchestra again
01:44:011971okay here's the chop that comes from thatokay doesn't sound like lyrics yet rightnot yetokayhere's the all here's all the vocalchops lined up togethersound like lyrics yet
01:44:28starting toI can't parse it what it is but it'syesokay so the theory is that it'sthe thewhat is being appliedobviously this would be daft punkkind of mutating these samples that don't say these words
01:44:44in a way that we now register that they say these words.So the theory is that the whole sequence isyou are face to face now with me.So listen with that in mind.You are,you can kind of hear it, just wait when you hear it in context,but I'm going to isolate it one more time.You are face to face now.
01:45:07one more time face to face nownow with mestill sounds like a reach but nowin your mindall of these samples in the context of the songand think about you are face to face now with meI'm going to be honest Colethis is one of my favorite
01:45:52dissections that I've ever been privy tothis is number oneI hear it I have been fuckingdissected. Somebody get the HBOMax app put on the pit.Motherfucker, it's a surgery room up in this bitch.Yes. Yes. Yes.This is why I love doing this show.
01:46:16Hell yeah.I was like, it's just a thing?And then I did the, I isolated them.I'm like, can I'm here now?Hell yes. And then the actual vocalist comes in,singing about face to face. I'm like, are they that good?And then you listen to the rest of the album, you listen to the guitar solo on Digital Love,yeah, they are fucking that good.
01:46:35Like, I'm not putting it past them that this was intentional.Our, because we need to, we, we've been going long, so I'm going to rush through best moment.Justin, do not get mad at me.I did not pick the pyramid because I felt like, too many years later.It's too many years later.It's 2006.Right.It's too many years later.
01:46:54That's fine.I watched, I watched the full set the other night.I was like, was I turning on.I like could not turn it off.I was like, this is fucking fantastic.Like, mind, mind melting.My face melting.Like, amazing.
01:47:06People have been jacking that performance for fucking years.Look at Khan, like, so much what I realized, too,is like how much Condiade was influenced by Daft Punk.Because all his stage shows after Daft Punk's pyramid,that's when he really starts to take his stage shows.Glow in the dark, Yisus, yes.Like, you can see.Like, Jesus, the mountain is to me, like, exactly, like,
01:47:28kind of like a nod to.The pyramid.Same thing with the mask that he wore.Like there's a lot of like daft punk.But then again, it's the beauty of like daft punk is super influenced by Chicago House.And then this kid growing up in Chicago who's in love with sampling is sampling in a different way.But like you can see the spiritual connection between these French.And similarly, my best moment is Interstellar 5555, the story of the secret star system.
01:47:58because like we said, the theme of this album,the loose theme is that is going back to Dap Punk's childhood.And one thing that people might not be aware of is in America,when Americans are like, I'm into anime,nine times out of ten, they're into Dragon Ball Z and fucking Naruto.When you go to France,what you have to understand is the connection between the Frenchand the Japanese is very, very strong.
01:48:27They love manga.they love anime their animation french animation i'm talking about hand-drawn animation is still a thing they're a societythat loves aesthetics and love supporting the arts um and i think it's so cool that on their set you have tothink about this on their second album right they're like oh we want to make a live action movie i'm likethis is your sophomore album you are not making a live action movie so what do they decide to do they settle formaking a fucking anime. They are influenced heavily by I'm going to butcher his name. Liji Matsumoto,they said to Tunami, quote, we have always been great fans of animation since we were kids.At around the age of five years old, we would watch Captain Harlock. The show was made by
01:49:14Matsumoto, who we aren't working with 20 years later. So we're finally working with a big sourceof our inspiration. The music we have been making must have been influenced at some point by theshows we were watching when we were little kids. And what I enjoy about that quote is thatthat there are not just aesthetically in terms of the robot heads, the blowing up, that lore,but when you do listen to Discovery especially, I think a lot of the kinetic, childlike wonder,all of the inspirations to me is the feeling of watching 80s anime. It was very funny.In the interview, in the Tunei interview, the person asked,I'm like, well, what new animator you're like?
01:49:58They're like, you know, Evangelion and Ghost of the Shell is cool.But no, we like that old shit.And as a kid, when I talked about that day when I was walking past that Sam Goodyand I saw the video for one more time, it was, yeah, it's just like one of those things,those neurons that as a kid fires on where it sold the music to me.Like the fact that when I was rewatching the movie last night and I forgot, I'm like,oh, there's no words in this movie.It's all just music.
01:50:28I'm just like, these are just music videos that have like a light kind of like narrative.But the music is so good, you don't care.You don't need words.When you were talking about Radiohead being so good at scoring and the emotions,I think Daft Punk is a similar way.And Interstellar 5555, 555, if you haven't watched it,like one day when you're at the crib, just put it on while you're doing dishes,while you're doing chores.
01:50:56It is something wherelike every sceneyou'll like stop a little bitand you're like,wait,what the fuck is going on?So to recap,my biggest song was one more time.
01:51:05My best song was harder,better,faster,stronger.Worst song,Night Vision.Best deep cut face to face.Best moment,
01:51:12the anime interstellar 55555.Can you go down your categories?Yeah.Biggest song.Can we just skip the head to head?This is going to be really trying this.Okay.So,
01:51:23uh,biggest song,everything in its right place.best song,How to Disappear completely.Worst song.What did I pick?In Limbo.
01:51:31Best decut,idiotech,and Best Moment,SNL,National Anthem on SNL stage.All right.So let's take a little bit of a break.And when we get back,
01:51:41unfortunately,we're going head to headand this is going to be very,very, very difficult.All right.We are back with the head-to-head.This is when both Cole and Ipit our five categories
01:51:57against each other to see which album will be crowned and taken into the Royal Rumble.I want to do something a little bit different this time.How about we go to the categories that are super easy?First and then we will go to the ones that are a little bit more difficult.I think biggest song is probably pretty, is a pretty easy category.I would say one more time is.If we're doing just the technicality, what was the bigger song?And just literally what's the biggest song?
01:52:27I would just have to.You can argue.You can argue.I would say one more time is still a, is still something where if I walk out of this door and hear it, I would not be surprised.I'm just like, people play that song.Yeah, it's the biggest song.It's definitely the biggest song.Do I think it's the best song?
01:52:43No, actually, I think, I think everything in his right place is far superior.And I love, I love, it's two different worlds.But if, just to save us time, like, I'm not going to argue that it's a bigger song.I think it's, you can argue maybe it's a more important song just symbolically because of the historical stuff that I, that I pointed out.But that's more kid A, the album itself, not necessarily that song, although that song kicks off.You know, it's inseparable in my mind.But I'm going to just, I'll just stay true to the category to make it easy.I'll concede that, you know, one more time is the bigger song.
01:53:17All right.So for Best Moment, we have Interstella, 555, 5.5 versus the S&L performance.I think this is also pretty easy.easy. Those videosare iconic. Like thatare they though? What?Are we being serious? Cole?You can't even find your performance
01:53:37on fucking YouTube. Let me tell.Well, that's, okay.This is this. Okay. So you had,you had an archival piece that was like,you know, a legit thing thatsustained. Like, I'm working with like scraps here.Like, because I think that was a moment in time.It's just, it's just not documented.
01:53:55So,I can also,I can also bring up the fact that they, at KD8,they streamed it on websites before streaming was a thing.I could bring up the fact that, you know, they, what, what?You didn't.Oh, first of all, Daff Punk had Daffed Club where literally they were sending outcards that you could literally like type in and get different remixes.
01:54:19So sick.So sick.So you can't use that either.I will just say the video for one more time, which is taken from this movie.has 569 million fucking views.Harder, better, faster,stronger has 152 million views.Like this, like...
01:54:35Okay, but here's the thing with Kidae.The kid A was the moment.Like, picking a best moment,the album was the moment.It's a turning point in the history of music.And I would argueDap Punk's discovery and the videos and the visualswhere it's like,
01:54:51if I had to ask people who is the more iconic group,they would 100 times out of 100,say it is daff punk.Even if you don't listen to dapp punk,if you point...What are you talking about...What's your definition of iconic,when you point at
01:55:05those two helmets,you're like, that's daft punk.When you see the little...When you point at Tom York's lazy eye,you...I will ask Justin, Justin,do you think more peoplecan recognize the daft punk robot
01:55:20helmets or Tom York?Oh, God.Like,it's clear thathelmets are more iconic, but like Radiohead was anti-Rad was anti-image.Trita is not fucking...Trina's got thoughts.Um, um...
01:55:39My girl, I love Trita so much.Is this what you envisioned when we set up the studio today?All right.Sorry, Radio has a more iconic fan.Yes.What?I'm not saying you're going to win that he's the who's going to win.I'm just saying that radio.
01:56:00head's a more iconic band.This is...I think that's 100% true.I love daft punk, but...To who?To who?All right.If we go back to Best Moment,
01:56:12yours is an S&L performance.Mine is an entire movie.That is...I thought this was the easy one.Interstellar 55555-5 is an iconic piece of pop culture.Okay, let's move on.We'll just, let's just put a pin in it.Let's keep going.
01:56:29Okay.Where do we want to go worse song?I think that should just be a wash.I'm not going to argue.That's a tie.It's,we both also picked like songs that are not bad,but are very much just like transitional.
01:56:44One of the,yeah,yeah, yeah.All right.Okay, so best song versus best song.How to Disappear Completely.Masterpiece of the 21st century versus harder,bigger, faster, stronger.
01:56:56Harder, better, faster, stronger to me is.It's really not, though.It's not even the best.It's not even the best song on the album.It is a more important song.If you, no, if you, if you pick digital love or face-to-face, I think you'd have a stronger case.I thought it was a strategic misstep to pick harder, better, faster, stronger.As much as I like the song, I don't even, it's not even in my top five on this record on this album.
01:57:20Yes, but we are using, and sometimes I think as like music critics and music fans, we can get very, very in the weeds.But harder, better, faster, stronger is such an important, important artifact of the 21st century.If you, if this song disappears, so much music is erased.It is just like, it is like the back to future shit where it's just like if we never hearharder, better, faster, stronger, there are so many rappers, so many pop stars, so many electronicartists that are no longer the same.And I love, I love Radiohead, but I don't think that this is a contest.I literally think harder, better, faster, stronger is just, yes, is it cool to be like,
01:58:08we're picking the pop hit?No.But sometimes you just have to be like, yo, this song is like an earthquake.And when you still put it on, you can put it on for a baby.You can put it on for an 80-year-old.And you do not have to explain any of it.They will understand why this.To use your own point against you, how to disappear completely articulates a feeling of alienation in the world.
01:58:34It foreshadows this isolation, alienation of a nation, of us as people in a technology age.It's the birth point of one of the greatest musical kind of orchestrators, film scores that we have in Johnny Greenwood.This is his birth moment of that side of his career.starts here. It's the origin point. It's technically brilliant. It's a perfect song.If you had picked Idiotek, I would have been more on your side because that's easily the best songof Kid A. Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is just like, yo, what the fuck are we doing? Sometimes afucking Big Mac is a Big Mac and like you just have to respect it. But you just conceded it wasnot even a top five on the album. But we're having, we're having different conversations. I'm
01:59:25talking about a song that is so seismicthat it is just like, hey,I have to like go back towhen I was nine years old,hearing harder, better, faster, stronger.And it's just like everythingfrom the sample to thetalk to the talk box little
01:59:41like vocal or fucking outro.Everything about this song islike this is a 10.10.You can.We're going to have to call Justin in.We have to call Justin in because I'm not conceding.is this going to beis this the rest of the season
01:59:57is the rest of the seasonme having to make aheadthe I think this is going to bethe most contentiousI think this is easily the mostyou think this is more contentiousthan what we went throughwith Beyonce and Jay
02:00:09I still got cheating thereI still got cheatedlike there's also a levelof like I get itI get it as music criticssometimes we likethe narrative of the albumwe like all of this other shit
02:00:22but sometimes we do needto go back to when we were cavemenand just be like when you put on a recorddoes it make you move your feet?Is there something soul where you don't have to explain it?When you hear it on a dance floor,you just want to dance.It is literally a net positive to the world.
02:00:40And I think harder,better, faster, stronger is that song.I can see the biggest song with one more time.We're talking about that song.You can see one more time is a way huge or size.It's way bigger.But you're now using.Hard, a Bigger, Faster, Stronger, the mass appeal of it.
02:00:57No, no, no, no, I'm using what I think that we underrate as music critics,where it's just like we like songs that have like this, quote unquote, quote, depth,where it's just like, oh, they're doing all of this shit in it.And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.When you play this on a dance floor, is there something so primal about the beat,about the way it hits your ears and you can say the same, you could say the same thing for,for how to disappear completely.Put that on and headphones in the dark
02:01:27and think about your life and existenceand it's like it'll take you places thatonly music that good canand it will make you reflect.It taps into just like what it is to be humanabout how existence is,we're just so alone despite being so togetherand so connected.
02:01:45Like it taps into exactly what it feels like to be human.The loneliness,we all feel deep, deep, deep down insideno matter how many friends we havehow many loved oneswe have around usthis song taps intothe loneliness of life
02:01:59Cole that was fucking beautifulhoweverhowever howeveronly one of these songshad the white girlsand the video on YouTubewriting the Sharpie on their handsand doing all the
02:02:11I'm actuallyboth of you guysthe problem with thisis you've been doing this for too longand you're both turning into excellent debatersand you're not willing to concede the pointbecause you want to win the debate,even if you know deep down,
02:02:25you might be wrong.So I guess I got to come,I got to actually come in on this one.You do.Charles has this one.I'm sorry.Hell fucking yeah.All right.
02:02:37I'm not even going to fight.Let's move on.Best deep cut.We can make this easy.I love face to face.I love face to face.Idiot tech is so fucking good, bro.If you would have gave me
02:02:52the last one I would give you this one, but I'm not conceding three times. Wait, wait, wait, wait.Do you like, do you like face-to-face more than EdioTech?No, I like Idiotek more. I like Edio-Tech more. Even though face-to-face, like, it's like to me, like, both of these are 100 out of 100.Yeah. But E-O-Tac is just like, oh. It has a, it has a dimension that face-to-face, as much as I gushed about face-to-face, Idiotech has just a little bit more of the emotionalresonance to me, even thoughit's just, it's by a fucking hairthough, I'm, I think.So right now, I have
02:03:30one more time, harder, better,faster, stronger. We said,worst song is a wash. You have bestdeep cut and we are torn on bestmoment. I think it's crazythat you're trying to convince me that anSNL performance that most people cannoteven see was a bigger
02:03:46cultural moment thana video that literally changed the faceof music. But I could just, no.I could have just said, I could have just said, Kid A, the album.No, you can't, because I could just say Discovery, the album.No, no, Cole has a point on this one.Cole really is what, it really was, yeah.Like, Discovery came out and it was like, it was, like, you cannot overstate
02:04:08Radiohead going from a rock band of OK computer, having the weight of rock music history ontheir shoulders and pivoting.That is a Bob Dylan goes electric moment.It is a crystallization in music history.Like, it is a fucking moment.No, no, no.I'm not saying that it isn't.I'm not saying that it isn't.
02:04:26What I'm arguing is thateven if in the moment,radio, like all of that is true,discovery to me just like,as the years progressed,like I couldn't pick the Coachella performance.You know what I'm saying?I can't pick Kanye sampling,
02:04:45harder, better, faster, stronger.I can't pick just the, like,when I was in college,how much of the EDM wavewas just motherfuckersreheatingfucking dad punk's nacholike I can't pick any of that
02:04:59like when you look atlike motherfuckers are still going to arguewhat you would like what the best radio head album iswhen you put on discovery motherfuckersis just like hey yo man likerandom man's access memories is goodhuman after all is goodbut like fucking discovery is the one
02:05:12like what?No random access memoriesI actually think has a bigger crowdfor it for being their best albumthat record is beloved.I know it's beloved,but also like let's let's be like.Fish Fork also rescore that in the opposite direction.
02:05:32Oh, really?I think,and I love random access memories.I think it is a phenomenal album.We got to relax.Like I think random access memories is in the lemonade position for me where I'm just like,come on y'all.Like it's just like y'all are letting fucking recency bias kick y'all ass.
02:05:49Like, like relax.I would say to those people that they haven't returned to discovery.It's, yeah, I think discovery is a better.Let's just, you know what?Let's just get to the mean potatoes.Are we picking discovery?Are we picking discovery or kid A?I can, I really cannot do this.
02:06:07I don't even, I can't, I can't concede.Like, I just can't concede.But I also, like, can't argue that hard against discovery.Like, this is just a torturous pairing that I feel like both should be nominated to the,finale. Should we have our firstdraw, Justin, or do we have todecide? They're going tohave to be eliminated at some point.
02:06:28I said this to you about anotherpairing that actually isn't going to end uphappening later in the season, but sometimesthe bills and the Chiefs have to playin the AFC championship game for theright to go to the Super Bowl. Maybe not thebest metaphor, considering the Chiefs, played thebills and got their ass kicked in the Super Bowl, but
02:06:44you get the point.You got a pickle.Well, Justin,What would you...Why do I have...You're entrusted.We really respect your opinion.You know what you're talking about.
02:06:57You've been a music journalist for a very, very long time.You follow all of this stuff.So we'd at least weigh in.Maybe you don't have to make the decision,but try to sway us one way or the other.See, I'm a little inclined to kind of split the differenceand kind of talk out of both sides of my mouth on this one,because here's what I believe about these two albums.
02:07:20I believe that, and I want to stress, we're not doing what's the most important album,because we, you know, we could have had that discussion with Take Care versus my beautifuldark twist of fantasy, and it could have gone in the wrong direction.I mean, we've done near had that fucking conversation with Lemonade's Beyonce and Jayze'sblueprint, because I won, we want to be real.So this is not my vote, but I think Kid A, in the moment upon release,was definitely the more important album. And I think it kind of stands as this really, like, monolithicthing at the beginning of the century. I think that discovery was something of a little bit more
02:08:08of a slow discovery, forgive me for repeating the name of the album, but I think it was kind ofa slower discovery for a lot of people. We're not picking most important album. We're notpicking the one that had the biggest impact on, upon release.We're also not picking the, I guess, most, like, cohesive album.Because if we were doing that, like, just listening to the way that Kid A was structured feels that.Like, it's just the songs, the way they weave in and out of each other, the way the pieces all fit together, everything in its right place, not the song, the description of it.but god damn i've been listening to both these albums for a week and jesus fucking christ if it isn'twhen every time i put on discovery i'm like this is the one for me personally i'm not making
02:09:01decision you guys have to do this hold on on you know who loves both of these records equallyis kevin's still here kevin's here what's up okay kevin can you quickly weigh in on if you wereforced to choose which one of these would you choose also also primeemphasis with Kevin is the most brilliant electronic musician I've ever met. He has a collectionof vintage synthesizers. I think he's equally influenced by both radio and daft punk. So he knowswhat he's talking about like 100% in this. Well, thanks for the boat of confidence. Yes,I'm a big synth nerd for sure, a fan of electronic music since, I think, 1990.Oh, yeah. Yeah, homework. Definitely changed my life, influence my whole, like,
02:09:47music career. But I thinkall in all, if I had to choose, I thinkKid A single-handedly reinvented digital music. So I'm just going to say that.Yes. Now, if I can be honest. I also think they pioneeredinternet distribution. They kind of took like, here's an approach to writing music.Like rock traditionally is written like this and they reinvented that old process as well.I reallyI got to actually go
02:10:18I gotta take my daughterto gymnastics right nowshe's gonna be lateso I I can't concedeI just I can't do itSo if we don't pick discovery y'allDap Punk likeLike
02:10:29What?What digital love?Digital loveEverything is right placeDigital love aerodynamicHarder better faster strongerOne more time like whatThis ain't the 1990s y'all
02:10:43This is the fucking2025 and Dap Punk is one ofthe most important fucking duos. I get radio head is also important. I get that. But it'sthat fucking punk. It's just that it's just we're talking in circles because like you canreplace everything I'm saying with radio it with dat punk and I can replace everything you'resaying with radio head. They're just on parallel. They're just parallel artists in this way.And it's the same exact era. They're pointing in the same direction. These are the,these are the guys that together this trajectory is just never the same. Do we just fail this episode
02:11:14and just leave it to the fans.Oh, that's interesting.This is fucking insane.Okay.You know what?This is a fun experiment.Let the fans decide this one.I know where this is going to end up.
02:11:29I know where this is going to end up.Maybe we should also do...I think people are going to pick kid at.I think most people are going to...Same.Same.Even though it's just...You know what?
02:11:39It's fine.I actually like this.I love this.Of course.This is your home crowd.This is your home crowd.your home crowds are they going to pick kid A.Now we go to the streets?
02:11:48I don't think so actually.I think if we went to the streets, a lot of people would be like, like, come on, come on.Don't sell yourself short.Yeah, I actually think Daftunk has a legitimate chance.Just the real ones know, the real ones know what's right here.Charles, all right, we're leaving on a cliffhanger.This is my favorite episode we've ever done, I think.I could continue talking about these people.
02:12:13I know.This could have been three hours, yeah.Beautiful. All right. We'll see you next week with the results.Good luck. Good luck at gymnastics practice.Hell yet.Trina might have a few more things to say next episode.So I think this is a great episode. Also, maybe our most chaotic one.Yeah.
02:12:31How good.Beautiful.
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