Eminem's 'Marshall Mathers LP' vs. Tyler, The Creator's 'IGOR' | LAST SONG STANDING
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00:31Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing.I'm Cole Kushna.And I'm Charles Holmes.And in this four season of Last Song Standing,Cole and I are debating our waythrough some of the best albums of the past 25 yearsin order to crown the greatest album of the 21st century so far,a.k.a.
00:55The last album standing.Last episode, The Blueprint by Jay-Z went up againstBeyonce's lemonade, and I'm,so happy to say we chose it rightlemonade came out as victorioustodaytwo more classic albums going head to headCharles but before we get there
01:14you're taking that you're taking this losspretty hard no it's not a loss and this is not eventhis is not acting we have been talking about thisoff camera since the end of the last episodeyou are so pissedthe election was fucking riggedI want a fucking recountyou know what I mean it's
01:33just I see how it is.I will say if my album today loses,we're canceling the season.No, I can't do it.My album has a legitimate shot.No, it does not. On paper, it seems like twodifferent weight classes, butcome on, let's reveal our albums.
01:53So my album for today is Eminem'sthird studio album, the Marshall Mathers LP,an album that some consider the greatest rap album,of all time.Calm down.Your album isby a little known artistthat people don't really
02:09give shit about.Who can you reveal?I'm doing the cult classic,the indie darling,the modern...The West Anderson of hip hopI'm doing Tyler the creators,Igor.
02:20Because you make my earthquake.I don't want no competitionall.You don't want my conversation.I don't like a head trip to listen tobecause I'm only giving you thingsyou joke aboutwith your friends inside your living room.
02:32The only difference is I got the balls to say it in front of y'allAnd I don't got to be false to show you.The thing about Marshall Mathers' LP is that it's had time to, you know.Yes.You know, it's had its moment.It's a little bit harder to judge recent albums.but Igormaybe you're just not
03:03in the demo or the age groupbut this album is likerevered.It is a gemfor a certain...I know you do.You're playing the part a little bit.I will just say
03:13the Wes Andersonof hip hopkind of seems like a dissif we're being real.Wait, really?Yes.You don't like Wes Anderson?Yeah.
03:22Okay.Let's move on.You like Wes Anderson?I like West Anderson.It's justit's a little too much.It's a little.Like, I'm like, all right, man, we get it.
03:32Right.You know?All right.Should we go into rules and structures?Yeah.I'm very excited to get into Marshall Mathers.But before we do that, let's recap the rules and the premise of the show.Remember every episode, Charles and I are in each nominating one album that we think should be in contention for the 21st century's best.
03:51Each album gets its own half of the episode where we'll make a case for why it's one of the best albums of the past 25 years.Then at the end of the episode, the two albums.the two albums will go head to head, and Charles and I will debate until we can agree on one winner.The winning album from each episode advances to the season finale Royal Rumble.That's where Cole and I will face off one last time, eliminating albums one by one until we can crown the greatest album of the 21st century, aka the last album standing.Cole, we've already revealed which albums we're doing today.But let's talk very, very briefly about why we picked.Eminem and Tyler for this episode
04:31because we made a late stage change.Originally, this episode was supposed to be Igorversus Doom and Madlib's Mad Villainee.And then we kind of had a change of heart a little bit.Yeah, it's a...The more of...I think on at face value,the pairing doesn't make as much sense
04:49as a Doom and Mad villainbecause you can kind of draw a direct linebetween those two artists.But once you understand Tyler a little bit moreand you start looking a little bit closerat the trajectory of his career.It's very much influenced by Eminem.He's been on record saying Eminem taught him how to rap.
05:06Yeah.And I think the interesting thing about the two artists togetherand grouping them together in this way is thatthe evolution of Tyler versus the evolution of Eminem,I feel like presents an interesting dichotomy in terms of these two artistsand their career trajectories where I think Eminem was never able to evolve past a certainpoint where Tyler kind of was able to transcend some of his earlier work and continues to growas an artist in a way that I don't think Eminem ever quite did. Am I wrong to say that?
05:42No, I agree so much. I think what I believe I said to you and Justin yesterday is to me,in the beginning of Tyler's career, I feel like he leaned more into the hardcore shock tacticsof an Eminem. You could tell he was of a piece of that, of that lineage. But undergirding all of thatwas his love of Farrell, the Neptune's clips. And I think in the later stages of Tyler's career,he more so went off in the Farrell. He leaned more to the Farrell trajectory. And I think the reasonthat I wanted to pair Igor with Marshall Mathers is both of these to me are the pinnacle of theseartist as pop stars where Igor to me is when Tyler the creator finally married it all togetherwhen he's finally taking on so much of the singing, so much of the melody, letting the music
06:39breathe. And I think Marshall Mathers is, it's weird to say this because it's still so early in Eminem'scareer, but it's kind of like the beginning of the end of in terms of what I liked about himas an artist. I think each project is diminishing returns where M&M shows still pretty like really good.It has great standout moments.Encore has less moments.And the more and more you go down the line, I'm like, to your point, Eminem never really almost,Eminem crystallizes in time, in amber almost.Right.
07:10He's almost chasing the highs of Slim Shady and Marshall Mathers, where to me, Tyler the creator with each record is creating in its own era.He almost, Tyler the creator to me almost refuses to be pinned down to one.to one era or one time.Yeah.And yeah, everything, every, each project presents a new sound, a new vision, a new world in a way that, you know, to contrast it with Eminem, Eminem's most recent project is essentially a call back to his first project.And he seems to kind of just be recreating the same wheel.And yeah, so let's, but I want to do my best to honor Eminem.It's, it's really easy to critique, but I'm going to do my best in like the same way we presented Drake in episode one.
07:56want to give him his flowers. Wait, so am I going first this episode? I went first last episode.Yeah, but we got to start. We got to start with M. We have to start with M. I think so.All right, album facts for the Marshall Mathers LP. It was released on May 23, 2000. It's Eminem'sthird studio album. It features appearances from Snoop Dog, Nate Dog, D12 exhibit, Dido, among others.Production on the album is mainly handled by Dr. Dre, M&M, and the Bass Brothers.The Marshall Mathers LP spawned six singles, The Real Slim Shady, The Way I Am, Stan, I'm back, kill you, and bitch-please, too.The Marshall Mathers LP sold like gangbusters.It sold 1.78 million copies in its first week.
08:41Debuting at number one on the Billboard 200.It is certified diamond by RIA, and really quick.I want to pull up something to show you like how well this thing sold.So I'm on Wikipedia right now.1.7 and first week is insane.1.7, 8 million.And then the Marshall Mathers LP sold over 800,000 copies in its second week.Third week, 600,000.
09:09Oh, my God.Fourth week, 520,000.Like, we don't, sometimes I think we forget.Like, of course, M&M was massive.But when I was going back through how massive this album was, I was just like,oh, I can kind of understand how this kind ofcurdles his mind a little bitin terms of just like, how can any human
09:30handle that level of ubiquity and popularity?Yeah, I remember, I mean, you were probably too youngto remember this coming out,or do you remember the release date?Oh, no, no, no, no.Not only do I remember, I remember this.I remember Slim Shady.I remember the Liz Cheney shit.
09:49Oh, okay.The destroying the,album shit.Like I,cause here's a thing.I was living with my grandparents at the time.And my grandparents were super fucking news pilled.And it was just like,
10:01it felt like whenever the news needed,like it was a slow news day and they needed like a bear to poke.Right.It was always Eminem.Eminem and Columbine.And Glad.The Grammy performance,I vividly remember so much of this album.
10:16Yeah,I remember staying up the radio,my local radio station premiered,the album in full at midnight on the night it dropped.And I remember staying up and I recorded it on cassette from the radio, the whole album.And then I just listened to it.Like, I was like in deep.I was, yeah.
10:32But it's interesting returning to the album now because this is not something I put on regularly at all.And it's like essentially like every song is about like his relationship with the public andhim like getting in trouble for saying certain things.And it feels heavy handed to tell you.remember this was a big deal like in terms of like the pushback he was getting from well it's essentiallylike columbine sparks this kind of national debate and he becomes this scapegoat for for like the youthturmoil and he's getting dumped on by the vice president's wife by senators um the Walmart refusesto stock his albums like there's all the censorship put on his shoulders i remember maryland
11:16manson kind of getting the same thing whereas like the media was looking for scapegoats and to your point the mixture of that kind of backlash put on this guy fromDetroit that just wants to rap and this cat is you know like a pop star like near like aBritney Spears level fame and popularity put on this guy that is it's a credible weight andeverything in his career kind of makes sense from this moment on in terms of like thedifficulties of him try to navigate those dynamics which feel to your point inimpossible, like absolutely impossible.But I mean, you know what's funny?
11:55In this exercise, to your point, when I was listening to how much of this was about fame,I was like, oh, this reminds me of take care in a way, not sonically, but in terms of justlike an artist becoming so famous, so fast, and then their music pivots from being abouttheir personal life before fame to almost everything becoming a bit.about it's not just him being famous in terms of like the government's mad at me or moms aremad at me. My family's mad at me. I fucking hate Kim. Everything about my life has changed.I was just like, oh, this is kind of the, I think artists have always done that. Hey, my secondthird album is going to be the fame album. I think this is when it becomes like an industrial complex
12:44when it's like this all pop music just about how much famous is. Right. Right. All right. So youready for Eminem trivia?Oh, of course.Trivia.You've been very hard on me.I don't think I even have a single point yet this season.Now I'm really scared.So I went a little bit harder this time.
13:04We'll see.We'll see.How many questions did you get for me?I gave you two.Two.Okay, I'll get you two here.All right.First question.
13:11Which track on the Marshall Mathers LP had its original third verseaccidentally erased by a studio engineer,forcing Eminem tore-record it.Easy, Stan.I thought I was going to get.I researched.I'm in these streets.
13:27Oh, I research.How pissed do you think I'm in?Oh, I cannot.On that song especially.I mean, it's also funny.What did he say that the engineer said?He was just like, oh, my bet.He was supposed to just punch in the last couple of lines and then he recorded over the
13:43entire thing.And Eminem claims the original performance was better than the one that we heard now.Which is crazy.Because I think Stan.isn't my favorite Eminem song, but I think it's one of his best performances.Yeah, for sure.Okay, question number two.On the clean version of the album, the song Kim is removed completely and replaced by
14:03another song that is not on the explicit version at all.What is the name of this song?I got you.Oh, this is good.You got.I can tell.I don't know.It's called The Kids.
14:16It's a South Park theme track.Do you want to hear just like a little bit of it?I don't think I've ever heard this song.If I did, I didn't remember, I don't remember it at all until this.Justin, you are as our resident white rapper expert.A song before?Oh, God.Yeah, I'm familiar with the song.
14:30Okay.I'm familiar with it.I want to knock it off because he's crazy and off his rocker.Crazy good as slim shady is off the blocker.You couldn't even take him to tracing your barber.Kim is better.It's whatever.It's whatever.
14:48It's, you know.Wait, what's the third?No points for this.What's the third question?No points.No points.Just for the gate.Just for the love.
14:57Which track on the Marshall Mathers L.P.Did Eminem write in one sitting while high on ecstasy?Kim.We must be reading the website websites.Come on.This one is super easy.You're going to get this one for sure.Which song on the Marshall Mathers LP was a last minute edition recorded just hours before the album's final deadline?
15:20The Real Slim Shady.Yeah.Which is crazy.Which is...Which is...Insane.That song's...That song's good.
15:27That song's really good.I forgot how good.Yeah.All right.So let's get into categories.Let's get into the categories.So you got one point...One point for the trip.
15:36One point on board.Hell yeah.All right.So for those who have forgotten,our categories for this season isbiggest song, best song,worst song, deep cut, best moment.And biggest song, obviously.
15:49The Real Slim Shady.Well, the real slim shady.Y'all act like you never seen a white person before.Jaws all on the floor like Pam like Tommy just burst on the door.We started whooping her ass worse than before.Produced by Dr. Dre and Melman.The song is certified seven times platinum and peaked at number four on the Billboard 100.What's actually interesting to me when I was doing research for this is how many of the
16:14songs off this album were super massive but never went number one on Billboard.Oh, interesting.I don't know if any, I don't know if a single song off this went number one at least while this album was in the culturalconsciousness. And what I think is interesting about this is that A, the real slim shady is a perfecthip-hop song. But I think the gift and the curse of this record is that Eminem would essentiallyhis whole career would follow the same blueprint. Yeah. Where he would do, my name is that it's thereal some shady than we have without me, just lose it. Those like goofy introductory records. And I thinkthey progressively get, like, if it's my name and then the peak is probably the real slim
16:59shady, I think there's diminishing returns of each in every single one. And almost, it's notjust the goofy record. It's like, if you think about the arc of Eminem's career, it's like he'll havehis celebrity sucks song, the way I am, putting it out my closet, stand. He'll have like theschmaltzy, like, pop record, sing for the moment, love the way you lie, mockingbird. And it was funnywhere I'm like, oh, if is the real slim shady, is that the moment where Eminem almost can't escapewhat makes him? Because when I was doing research for this, Eminem was very, very clear where it waslike the label kept kind of being like, all right, what's the, how are you going to top my name is?How are you going to top my name is? And part of me was like, why does he need to, why does he always
17:46need to make a corny record? The real Slim Shady is corny. I love this record. It's still good. It'sbut there is a level where I'm like,this is not the greatest thing that M does for me.What,like,what's your opinion?Well,that's,
17:59I mean,that's kind of one of the confusing things about M's career.I don't actually know what he,I know he wants to rap and I know he wants to be a flawless technician of the craft.That seems to be his biggest passion.Yeah.Yet,when you go through the arc of his career,
18:15to your point,he does have these formula songs that he keeps returning to.I don't know if it feels like he's,obligated to do those types of songs, but like, we've never gotten like the Alchemist Eminemmixtape style, just like no hooks, just rap.Yeah.Like that, I think that's what every Eminem fan wants at this point is like, don't, don't tryto recreate your first album or your first two albums again, 25 years later.
18:41Like, we've, we've had like 12 albums, like that sound in that same world just a few degreesaway from each other.I feel like what we've never gotten from him as an artist is a clear progression.It seems just like he's running on the same hamster wheel.And I don't know, it's just, it's a little bit frustrating.But to your point about, let's honor real slim shady though, because this song is great.It has one of the greatest opening, uh, open lines of a verse.Y'all, I like, like you never seen a white person before.
19:12I laugh every single time.It's so fucking good.Even just like the, I remember how iconic the music video was.I remember the VMA performance where all, like, I do think that that VMA performance when all the clones of, of Eminem walkout is still one of the greatest performances of all time.I think also this song is when Eminem just gets super, super good at creating the character.Like obviously some shady is something that he created.creates on his previous album, but this is when I was just like, oh, you know exactly what makesthis funny. You know exactly what makes this iconic. Later, you're probably going to talk about how,
19:58to me, the real Slim Shady inspires, and the performance and the icon of all of that inspiresIgor in a lot of these. Grammy. Yeah, Grammy performance is a nod to this Slim Shady, which islike ingrained in my mind. I can see that performance. Yeah. It's just, it's one of those culturalmoments that I think, yeah, will live on.I forgot how good he's rapping on the third verse.That third verse is so good.It's so good.All the rate I'm going when I'm 30, I'll be the only person in a nursing home flirting.
20:27Bint to nurses asses when I'm jacking off of jerkins and I'm jerking, but this whole backof a baguress isn't working.And every single person is a slim shady lurking.He could be working at Burger King spitting on your onion rings.All the internal stuff like he's doing, and it's, it makes sense that the song was writtenfast because it doesn't feel like overthought.Yes.They got a catchy hook and he was able to just, I just, yeah, I forgot how great the
20:50rapping was on this song.And I think it's good to point out now, like Justin said something yesterday that reallyhelped me like crystallize what is, what works with Eminem and what doesn't.So I don't want to take credit for the take because it was actually your partner's take.So do you want to lay that out?Oh.Oh.Yeah, I can't take credit for that.
21:13The skeleton key.The skeleton key, no locking M&M is he's at his best when he's just being a silly little guy.And it's the reason why a song like Rap God or on this record, I think the song that kind of shows some of the worst ways in which he progressed, which is the way I am, which I think is a good song on a lot of levels.but kind of shows the thingsthat I don't like a lot about Eminem,which is super serious.Like, I'm mad.I hate being famous.
21:45And I'm also, like, as a rapper,I'm like, da-da-na-na-na-na-like just focused on this super-precise metronome-like abilityto flip syllables and rhyme schemes.And it is like a marvel to behold when you can do that.But it's also so grating and sometimes just so boring.And on a song like The Real Slim Shady, he's that silly little guy.All over this record, he's a silly little guy.
22:14And this is the last time where, like, over in the subsequent records, that balance kindof tips a little bit.But this was the last time he was mostly that guy.And he's looser.It's still rapping, like, incredible, doing things that other human beings just cannotdo.Yeah.Yeah.
22:30And I think a lot of it for me, too, is the production.When the, when the production's a little goofy, it adds this cartoonish.element that bounces out the violence and the vulgarity, which is fine, but there's like,there's a playfulness to it, it adds a playfulness to it to where, when he's doing that onsongs where the production is also very serious. Yeah. It's just a little too much.Kim being the most egregious.Yeah. Like you immediately it snaps you like, all right, we don't have to be too serious.Right. Unclench. I mean, there's also, we're talking about the goofy moments. Like what other
23:06rapper when he does theFeminist women love Eminem.Tcha, chick a slip shady. I'm sick of him. It's solike, for any other rapper,I'd be like, get the fuck out of here. But Eminemis so good atputting in almostthese, like I like to call him like micro moments
23:22or like microhooks. Right.Where to me, sometimesthe verses are just as catchyor have moments that are just as catchy asthe hook. And this song is alsoshowing like Eminemwas so good at writing hooks.In a way where most rappers, like he's coming up at a time.
23:42Obviously, you've all watched 8 Mile.But he is in ciphers, freestyles.And the knock against a lot of those rappers a lot of times is they're so bad at song structure.They're so bad of choruses and bridges and all these things.Eminem was never, that was never a problem with him.Actually, I think that's one of his biggest assets.He can make a song like Stan or he can make a song like The Real Slim Shady where you're like,oh, this functions as a very.
24:06very, very good song.And he's the rare rapper whereI think a lot of timesrappers get lazyand they're like, all right, put two verses.We're done. Right.Eminem is like, no, I'm giving you three.Every song in his record. And they're
24:22all of the verses. I'm like, damn, allof these verses are fucking good.Yeah. It's crazy toactually listening to the blueprintand this back to back, howpopular like the hook with your namein it was at this time.All the like catchy songs on on this record all have his name in it somehow.
24:41Yep.Like some introductory, whether it's Marshall Mathers or some shady or whatever.But then Jay-Z has like five songs on the blueprint that are some kind of name flip.And then you had like Snoop Dog doing the same thing at this time.You know, all his hooks were something with his name spelled out or whatever.Well, that to me is also just like a carryover from classic hip-hop.Right.when everybody, when it's like you had five rappers in the group.
25:08And like rappers had to be like, I got to put my name.Y'all are not going to go who else I am, you know?But if we move on to Best Song, this is an easy pick to me.Oh, really?This was an easy pick.It was always going to be my pick.Okay.Kill You, produced by Dr. Drain, Melman, uh, in Melman, originally released as a
25:26promotional single.Um, I think that this song is what the real Slim Shady should have been.I think that he made it thinking, like, this is the best song.Let's roll this out.Ben, bin, bang.Sex is chainsaw.Let his brains off.Angling from his neck while his head barely hangs on.
25:44Blood, guts, guns, cuts.Knives.Lives.Nones.Bitch, I'm going to kill you.You don't want to fuck with me.Girls need you.You ain't nothing but a slut to me.
25:52Bitch, I'm going to kill you.You ain't got the balls to be.This song never veers kind of into like the cornyness that real slim,Slim Shady does.It has a touch of it because the production's a littlebit quirky, just a little bit.But not over it.And I love the real Slim Shady. I can tell
26:10if you put both songs nextto each other, I can tell whilethe real Slim Shady was the hit andKill You wasn't. But this is in myheart, I think it's the best rapping he's doing on the entirealbum. What he said aboutit in the book Angry Blonde quote,I wanted to start the album
26:27with that song because everybody in thepress was like, what's he going to rap about?he's not miserable anymore.He can't rap about being broke no more.He can't rhyme about his pain and his misery because he got money.The whole idea of the song was to say some of the most fucked up shit just to let peopleknow that I'm back, that I didn't lose it, that I wasn't compromising nothing and I didn'tchange.
26:45If anything, I got worse, which, yes, when you listen to him, which we will get to, he gota lot fucking worse.I just, I love kill you before I continue.I feel like you're surprised that I went with this.it's just not I guess it's not the obvious pick but it's kind of my pick too if I were forced but it's likeI forgot how good criminal was yeah criminal is so good it's almost like it's in a similarvein where it is it has the quirky element but it's not over the top it has the great skitin the middle where he goes to rob the girl and a lot of the skits on this are pretty funny
27:23is hot take I like I hate skits I fucking hate skitsMost albums, I knock off a half point just for you putting skits and wasting my time.I will say, going back to this, the skits on this are actually funny.They're pretty funny.Like the Steve Berman skit is funny.Eminem's legitimately funny.Yes.Except for the Ken Kinnf one.
27:45Oh, that one was tough.But back to kill you.Love this hook.When I was just the little baby boy, my mom used to tell me these crazy things.It's so good.It's so fucking dope.The closing moments of verse one, I love.I invented violence,
28:04you vile, venomous, violent,by getting run, run, run.Yeah, such a good.Again, a moment only Eminem can do.It's once, and then he does the Texas chainsawleft his brains all dangling from his neckwhile his head barely hangs on.Blood, guts, guts, guts, guns, knives, live,
28:19live, none, sluts.The whole, yeah, the whole first verse.Here's my favorite part when he says,he does a three-syllable schemethroughout this whole thing. He says, you know why I say these things because ladies screamkeep creeping in shady's dreams and the way things seem, I shouldn't have to pay theseshrinks, these ADGs a week to say the same things, twees. Twice, whatever I hate these things.The tweez is so much. He's like so stuck on, he's like so stuck on the syllable rhyming
28:52perfectly.No why I say these things because ladies screams keep creeping in shady's dreams and the way things seemI shouldn't have to pay these stringsto say the same things tweetstwice, whatever I hate theseHere's the thingI love when rappers do thatI love when rappers
29:06mispronounce the word on purposeand then pronounce it correctlyLil Wayne has literallyhas so many linesthat are just thatIt is my favoritewhen rappers do itbecause it's so fucking dumb
29:17bitch I'm gonna kill youyou don't want to vote with meyou ain't know the but it's luck to meit's soI've never heard your voice likethat Charles, Jesus Christ. I love kill you. It was the only choice for me on this record asJustin, is this a crazy take? So, okay, you meant, so I'm just trying to think of what else could bein the running. So Cole mentioned criminal. I'm going through the track list right now.
29:47I think a lot of people were like, why wouldn't you pick Stan? Stan is the is one that I was going tosay and then I have another one after that. I mean, a fan choice would be the,way I am too.Would be which one?The way I am.Once again, I think kind of, if the way I am was the only song in Eminem's careerwho was like that going off with what Justin just said, I'd be fine with it.The fact that we've gotten five of those songs makes me like, I kept skipping the way I am.
30:19Like the entire time I was like, I remember liking it a lot when I was a kid.It's a bad hang.It's a bad.Way I am is a bad hang of a song.It is.It is.All right.So,
30:30worst song.My honorablemention is Kim.Honorable mention.My honorable mention is it.That's not the worst song.Or is it so clearly the worst song?It's so clearly the worst song.
30:44I don't want to do the thingwhere it's like,we've grown as a culture.Yeah, yeah.Because I do.Kim to me was one of those records at the timethat I do remember.like people being like, oh my gosh, not only how could he say it, but actually it's so brave and blah, blah, blah.
31:11And it's just there's been more ink spilled about Kim than.And I do think if I'm going to be honest, there is an artistry to it.Yeah.If you're taking it's a piece of theater as like a horror director almost where it's like,I'm not watching the Texas Chainsaw Masker and being like clutching my pearls.Yeah, exactly.Like he's coming from a lineage of horror core.I'm just like, so that's why I'm also like what he does on Kim, he does it well.
31:37It's just a song I never want to talk about or ever listen to.You know what I thought about what I thought I was listening to Kim is we cry together.Is what?We cry together.The Kendrick.Yes.It's like the same theater, the same kind of song concept and a song that you just don't want to listen to you.Just don't want to listen to.
31:54But when you're just like.But you can respect it.Like you can respect it.And also I think sneakily probably Kendrick is a huge fan of a.song like him. Like he's probably like, yeah, I love, I can imagine like a youngerKendrick being like, oh, fuck, yeah, like the storytelling. Right, right. The voices,everything. The real worst song to me is remember me. This is the correct pick.Like, remember me, uh, I hate the hook. I hate everything about this. The features,
32:31no disrespect. No disrespect. I just. What's interesting about the features is it really shows youhow good of a rapper Eminem is.In the way that all the features are a lot of the features on this record,they're all trying to do the horror core rap.And it's all shock value and there's like very little skill in the rapping.And Eminem is saying similar things,but he's just so great of a rapper that it's easier to stomach.Where you kind of heat the warts are a little bit,
33:03are very present in the horror core approach.If you don't have the skills,if you're just relying on shock valueit's just a song likeRemember me exposesJust remember meGet the fuck out of hereIt's just no
33:20Get this Sunday afternoonFucking neighborhood theater shitOut of my faceYou guys are gonna do that to sticky fingersLike I'm seriousThis is not a bitYou're gonna doHave you guys
33:33I likeSticky fingers got some shit off on thisI'm not gonna lieIt's just not my shityou like this song JustinI don't love this songI think thata song like Amityville
33:48is probably in the runningor under the influencethe D12 stuffis probably more on the runningfor worse song to me than thisbecause those songs are kind of forgettableremember me I think thatM&M verse is great
34:01it's a littlecolumbine heavybut I do think it's a great verseand I think Sticky kills this.RBX has just never beenlike a great traditional rapper.I don't know.I just, that's fine.
34:17If you want to go remember me,Amityville was in the running.Amityville, if it wasn't remember me,it was either going to be Amityville.Yeah, because I actually don't thinkunder the influence the D12 song is that bad, actually.I think D12 are the rappers that, like,to me, can hang with M the most.
34:36just because they're all coming fromDetroit, they have similar leaning,similar influences.I, bitch please too is bad.You know what song is,it's not a bad song,bitch please two?It just felt like the renegade of the album.
34:52Yeah.Where I was like,this is a Dr. Dre songthat was kind of just put on.I just also don't think like Snoop Dog,date dog exhibit have chemistry with Eminem.And I also think that that's really,to me,
35:05the interesting thing about this.album is that it's hard for anyone to have chemistry with Eminem because he steals the the spotlightto such a degree that I feel like when another rapper hops on a track with him, it's almostlike they're trying to compete with him in a way where I'm just like, you're Eminem creates such aworld around his music. I think also Tyler the creator is very similar that sometimes it's hardfor them to step back and not be this bright light casting a shadow of everything.That's fair.That's fair.
35:40And also really quick, my other take, Eminem, I think, has one of the best voices in hip hop.Yeah.And what I mean by that is he can do so much with his instrument, whether he's doing the angry,guttural, oh, my God, my life is so terrible.He has kind of the cartoonish voice where he's, he's rapping like he's a woman, or,Or even just when he's like melodically, like this is almost, he's almost a proto 50 cent in a way where obviously he ends up signing 50, but a lot of these hooks have a sing song quality about them.And I was the thing that I think makes Eminem such a star at that time is as much as he's criticizing in sync and the Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera, I'm like, you kind of are like that.your ear for melody your ear for hooks your ears for making something like that can just
36:40punch out of the TRL screen yeah it's it's almost it's like you're doing the same thing you don'tyou don't get you don't sell 1.7 million copies without that skill set there's a there is a certainmelodic skill set that you have to have to make songs that are that appealing to that many peopleso you're 100% right like technically he's like yeah he's a great melodist he hashas a great year for all of that.But to your point, yeah, Kendrick is very transparent about Eminem being a heavy influenceon him.And I think a lot of it is the voice work, is manipulating your voice at like an instrument,
37:17playing different characters.I think you can draw a direct through line from Eminem's, that kind of same voice workto do what Kendrick is now doing.Curious to know, though, your deep cut.You guys are going to kill me for this.can you guess what my deep cut is going to beit's a very Charles pickis it
37:41it's not I'm backnoit should be criminal is criminala deep cutit's not criminalwhat is itMarshall MathersI never knew I knew I
37:55I never knew II never did this bigneverI like this songII don't do black musicI don't do white musicI make fight music
38:09For high school kidsPut lives at riskWhen I drive like thisI put wives at riskWith a knife like thisShitYou probably think I'mAnd you take that
38:16I'm like thatThere and also myOne of myMany gripesIs thatI thinkMarshall MathersWho knew
38:27Real Slim ShadyAll have a littleShades of likeMy Name isWhere they're very veryTo your point, it's either he's reintroducing himself with his name or the thing that I like about this song is the thing that grinds Eminem's gears at this point and what I think makes this album so good is that Eminem is so mad at the hypocrisy that's happening.He's so mad at.And I remember this moment in American history where he's like, all right, Bill Clinton's getting his dick sucked in the white.
39:06I was like, y'all mad at fucking me?You know what I mean?It's just, and it's, he's right or it's, this, that's, that was my note on this song was like,this is the best argument.Like this, like, with that line, you want me to fix up lyrics when our, while president getshis dick sucked.And then the next first he says, so who's bringing the guns in this country?I couldn't sneak a plastic pellet gun through customs over in London.
39:28And last week, I saw this Schwarzenegger movie where he's shooting all sorts of these motherfuckers withan oozy.Like, that's interesting to me.That is like, this is.I think in terms of his pushback against, you know, the public and the media and politicians, like, this is the best argument for himself, pointing out the hypocrisy, as you're saying.And I, when I, when I go back to Eminem and I think about the arc of his career, I like songs like Who Knew, but when he still had a sense of humor about this stuff in the hypocrisy, where I feel like in subsequent records that that hatred.almost like hurdles where I'm like, all right, you're pitching about everything.Right.
40:09Where the people that Emin, it always felt like Eminem was punching up at people where it's like,no, Insync is corny and all this music is corny.And this is where it's just like nothing Eminem said about in sync was going to stop their dominance.Right.Where it's like in, if I'm remembering correctly on one of his new albums he had kind of like this weirdline about Megan the Stallion.and I'm like, why?Yeah.
40:37Why?Like, here's the thing.Was he an asshole for making fun of Christopher Reeves?Yes.At the end of the days, it's just a joke?Also, yes.Versus like, Megan the Stallion.I'm just like, if I'm going to be real, I'm like,
40:50Eminem, you're still a visitor in hip hop.You're still like a white man in a black art form.Maw fucking, you can't say that shit.I mean, you can, but I'm going to call you out.Be like, hey, yo, that's, fuck off.So who knew to me is.still when he'spunching up. He had a sense of humor about this shit.
41:08Punching up and yeah,a sense of humor. I get that.And I, not going back to the Clinton line,but one of my favorite parts from this songis the closing of verse one when he says,you want me to fix up lyrics while our president gets his dick suck.Fuck that.Take drugs, rape slugs, make fun of gay clubs.
41:27Get a wear, wake up, get a sense of humor.It's just the eternal rhyme of him rhyming the fix.up, rape sluts, makeup, wake up, and then contrasting that with the take drugs, gay clubs,and forcing those rhymes together.And what I think is also so cool about it is if you break it down, because I was highlighting,a lot of rappers, when they're trying to force those rhymes are going to have the rhymeending it, where it's like with fix up, it's in the middle, wake up is in the middle,and then rape sluts and makeup is at the end.
42:02So he's very, very good.And not forcing the rhyme to always end at the, at the line.Like, he's very, very good at mixing it up.So your ear is always trying to catch where it's happening.Yeah, it's funny that you point that out because in the line I read earlier,I wrote the master of the forced rhyme or the slant rhyme where he says,and last week I seen this Schwarzenegger movie where he's shooting all sorts of thesemotherfuckers with an Uzi.
42:30So it's like, it sounds like it rhymes.And he's rhyming swore.Schwarzenegger movie, all sorts of these, all sorts, Schwartz.Yeah.So he's sneaking in internals.The whole thing doesn't match syllable for syllable, but your ear just registers as, as thismultisyllabic rhyme.He's so good at forcing things that sound like they rhyme when they don't, when you just
42:54read them aloud.But the way that he performs them, the way he kind of emphasizes certain syllables,like he's a master at that and creating these internal cadences,external cadences, the rhymes,and it gets a little bit grossor does get gross later in his career.But at this time, I feel like there's a balance between...He's not pointing towards it.
43:16In a song like Rap God,he's pointing towards how technically proficientand great he is.And on someone like who knew,it's like, if you blink or you're not paying attention,you forget, which to me is the mark of great songwriters.A lot of times with like Kendrick Lamar,my favorite Kendrick Lamar songs
43:36are when he's actually not pointing toto how good of a rapper he is.It's more so I'm like, oh, he's so greaton every listen, I'm picking up somethingwhere I'm like, oh shit, he just did something amazingbut he made it look so easy.It's like good movies where directors don't,it's like you're not, there's some great movies
43:54that really point, draw attention to itselfand it's like, look how cool this scene is shotand it's very flashyor there's other more understatedmovies where you're just so enamored in the storytelling.It's only when you take a step back and say,oh,actually this is really well put together.
44:10Yet it struck this balance of like,it's still immersive where you're not so detached of like just watching this guyshow off essentially.I could not agree more.But my last,my last category for best moment,to me this was pretty easy.And y'all correct me if I'm wrong,
44:29if I should have gone with something else.Everything that has become of Stan,where this was produced by the 45 King,samples, didos in 1998 song,Thank you.Obviously, one of the most iconic momentsfrom this song that I rememberis when he performs it with Elton John
44:45at the 2001 Grammy Awards after Gladhad gone after Eminem, kind of rightfully so.Some of the lyrics, I'm like,there is a difference between censorshipand Eminem just constantly poking the bear.Right.So I get both sides of it, but the reason why I wanted to single out Stan as a moment is because you can make an argument that Stan is one of the most important songs that has been released in the 21st century, just because Eminem, very early in his career, is pointing, is putting his finger on something that would come to define how we talk about just art in general.And I'm not even just talking about how we use Stan as a word.
45:35I'm more so talking about what fandom would become.And what I mean by that is this is pre-social media.But already Eminem is feeling the effects of being on MTV and VH1 and BT.And this time where the 24-hour news cycle is at its pinnacle.And already it's starting to destroy him.You can see how much.Eminem to me wants to be respected in hip-hop as a lyricist.He wants to be a capital A artist, but the machine is pushing him to be a pop star.
46:12And whether it's Taylor Swift or Treyk or Kanye, this feeling of Stan and what fandom had become just permeates music to such an extent.And yeah, it's kind of amazing that what this, now this word is.only what this comes out in 2001 so this word is only 24 years old and it seems like I can'tremember a time when this wasn't a word that we used right to talk about fandom which is crazyyeah it is because it is so we use it so much and it articulates exactly a certain type of personand a certain type of mentality and relationship with celebrity that seems to be increasinglywith social media and stuff where we are so close to celebrity that eveneven more than he was experiencing now, you know, all of us are out there on social media and it's
47:06easier to kind of, these parasycial relationships are easier to kind of, to build.I mean, here's what I'll say. What's crazy? There are people right now that are alive that usethe word Stan that have never listened to this song. I started thinking about that where it's just like,your daughters have probably heard Stan before. Have that your daughter's heard Stan before?No.But do you think if you were just like, if you describe, oh, that's a stand, do you think that they would understand what that means?Oh, yeah, for sure.You know what I mean?
47:35Where I'm like, oh, to me, I remember when Sam came out.I remember the video.I remember all this stuff.And we're so far from that moment.There are people who have never heard of Eminem, like, who have never heard an Eminem song who are still like you're acting like a Stan.Right.Yeah.I mean, also the storytelling on the song is like undeniably great.
47:53Yes.It's like so fluid.So like there's a twist ending in the way.way that I don't think we've ever heard in hip hop before. Again, my mind goes back to Kendrick,and I think he takes a lot from Stan in terms of just good storytelling, using all the verses,not just one verse telling a specific story, but creating an entire arc over the course of a songand then having a impactful ending with a twist. There's an emotional resonance to the song,and yeah, to your point, I remember the Elton John performance, very iconic. The only one I would say
48:27as we already talked about it though is thethe VMA performancethat's such iconic toobut I get why you chose thisand yeah my last thoughts on Stanif we're just talking aboutthe songyou're gonna
48:42is Kendrick there yetin terms of like hiswhat Eminem is really good like I thinkif I had to choose who's the better rapperI think Kendrick Lamar is easily the better rapperbut in terms of a song like StanI still don't know if Kendrick hasperfectly been able to do the thing where he's
49:00becoming another character where it's like on thisEminem is like acting wise he is so good at playing a rolein a way where I was just like when most other rapper rappers do it I'm just likeoh I can tell that they're really struggling with this where it's like Eminem to me is almostmore comfortable playing characters where he's more comfortable being slim shady he's morecomfortable being Stan he's very very it almost to me sometimes gives himexcuse to get out of himself and play around and be a little bit goofy.Where I was like, is there any rapper you can think of in history that does it as well as
49:37Eminem can?Probably not.Justin, does anyone come into mind for you?It's funny to think about him as this like multi-tool athlete like that because it seems,it feels very one note, but like, no, I mean, I think Charles is kind of dead on aboutthat.Yeah.I can't believe I have this much positive stuff to say about it.
49:58Going back to this album, I was like, yo, I love this record.Yeah, I, yeah, I was surprised.I do like every word.Yes.To most of the songs.Like, it's like, it's just one of those albums that are just embedded.It's embedded and it is just, it's undeniable.Yeah.
50:16I was listening to The Real Slim Shady, Kill You, Criminal.There was moments on ever, even the songs I didn't like, I was like, Eminem'srapping. And what you have to think about is this comes out a year after the slim shady LP.I think he created this in a 10 month span. So to have this much creativity, these many bars is just.Yeah, we should. Yeah. I don't know if we emphasize how good the rapping on this thing is.It's phenomenal.phenomenal. Justin, like, historically, could you paint the picture just a little bit about, like,what M&M kind of contributed in terms of like, it feels like there's a before and after M&M?
50:57Yeah, there's a lot there, right? There is on one level, you had rappers that were, like,really flipping these polysyllabic rhyme schemes, right? You had your cool G-wraps. You know,even Rock Kim was doing things like that.But, like, you know, I always think of, like, Cool G Rap as, like, the Golden Age rapper that was, like, really, like, doing that.And then, like, rappers, like, A-Z and Nas and big pun most directly were very influenced by Cool G-Rap.But Eminem, like, stylistically, he just, you're talking about with those slant rhymes and just how all these words are rhyming and just the way, what he was able to do with the way he bent syllables and words, really.kind of just changed how people were rapping.And then, like, one thing that we are,
51:50that we've barely touched on is the whiteness.And there had really not been a credible mainstream white rapper, right?Like, there were, there were white rappers that were, like, you know,just going back, they're, I don't know,I think about a rapper like Milkbone, who,like whatever.I think of like third base.Those,
52:16they were legends,but they weren't huge.When you think of huge white rappers,you kind of had your vanilla ice.You kind of had your Marky Mark.They were people that really weren't taken seriously.And for as,I think as it relates to this album,
52:32um,for as good as the rapping was on the slim,shady LP,there's a chance that his second album comes out in flops.And he is just kind of,kind of remembered as a more talented version of Vanilla Ice.The fact that this album comes along and does what it does,and he's doing what he does so well,
52:53and it makes him just this true, like, cultural figure.For better or worse, I guess that's the thing, right?Like, for, because this opens the floodgates.It opens the floodgates, right?Yeah.So, you know, I think that it's hard to make a list of,most talented rappers ever and not put Eminem on it. I also think it's hard to not make a listof maybe the worst things that have ever happened to hip-hop and not think about what Eminem did,
53:28right? It's this crazy thing. Like, he's so credible, he's so good, but everything that cameabout after him, I don't know. And I also, I think in a mainstream context, the thing that I even in thisalbum when when Eminem wraps. I don't make white music. I don't make black music. I don't makewhite music. I make fight music. Even at this time, I feel like he was starting to understandthat he had become this symbol for a certain demographic of white Americans who really did nothave someone like him speaking to them. And what I mean by that is like he's coming from theMidwest, trailer park, extremely poor, loves black.black music, loves hip hop, and he's doing it in such a credible way, and he's doing it,
54:19and he's so talented, and he's someone who can show up on the blueprint with Jay-Z and not getfucking washed.That, to most white fans, was something that probably was never going to fucking happen.And to me, the tragedy of kind of Eminem is that as his career progresses and as hebecomes bigger and bigger and bigger, he influences artists that are, to justice point, that areway less talented than him to be talking to a certain subset of the country that a lot oftimes can speak to some of the darkest, most racist parts. And I don't think that's Eminem'sform. No, yeah. I just think that it is just, it's the way our country is built. And he's tried to
55:06fight against that. Yeah. I will say I have not co-signed everything Eminem has done. I am a very, very,I have a very complicated relationship with him and everything that's happened.But I never doubted for a second that he loved hip hop.He never did that shit where it's like, oh, I released a rap album.Now I'm going to go do rock.Like even when he drops his albums now, I'm like, this isn't for me.This, to my ear, it sounds whack.But he still loves hip hop.
55:33He still loves rapping.You can't.He respects.He knows more about hip hop than I for, like he's forgotten more about hip hop than I canremember, you know?that you can never take that away from him.Yeah.I mean, this is a record.
55:45It's, you know, has Rakim references on it, right?And compare that to somebody like MGK, right?You see what MGK is doing now.And I like some MGK records.We know you do.We're actually well aware of it.I love this pop punk album.Do you know this?
56:01Really?I loved it.I didn't even push play on it.That's weird.Is this a cultural exchange album?No.Okay.Absolutely.
56:09I think I made Rob Harvilla listen to it.We want to go to Igor?Yeah, let's take a break.We'll come back and do Igor.I'm excited.I'm super excited.All right.We are back.
56:24Instead of going to the odd past,I think it's time we go to an odd future.Oh, my gosh.You like that?I was working on that.Did you think about that in the bathroom?Yeah, I'll take it to this.We took a break, guys.
56:38All right, it's time for Tyler creators.Igor, can you tell the people a little bit about the song?Yeah, it releases on May 17, 2019.It sells 165,000 copies in its first week.It is Tyler's first number one album.It is also the album that got him his first Grammy Award for Best Rap Album,somewhat controversially.And it spawns just one single in Earthquake, which I know you love.
57:02And let's just get into the reason why I picked this one, I think.Well, okay, you have a complicated relationship with Tyler.Maybe let's start there.Let's table set that.But you also love Igor.I love Igor.So I love Tyler.When I say I have a complicated relationship with Tyler, it's he is, he is one of those artists that you, that is your age.
57:29So I was there for it all.So I was there when I was angry when everybody was yelling at Odd Future for saying kill people, burn shit, fuck.school. I've been there sinceBastard. I sawall the mixtapes, everything.I'm from day one.And to me,Tyler is not as great of a rapper
57:53as Jay-Z, but to me he has the sametendency of like onealbum I'll like, the other albumI will be like, this is not fucking for me.But what is funny about his careeris we are like the inversewhere the Tyleralbums that I love
58:09are your lesser, like,are lesser ones for you and vice versa.And I think Igor is the marriage of both of us being like,we love this album.This album is undeniable,which is obviously why it went on.Yeah,I think,
58:22I mean,to me,it showcases everything that Tyler's been working towards his entire career.I think one of the interesting things about Tyler's career,to your point about him coming up so early,being famous at 17, 18,building this reputation,not only on like this goth core shock rap kind of,
58:41of approach, but also his antics outside of the music, his TV shows, his loud personality,and he was kind of just pigeonholed as a guy that makes music, but also as like a characteris funny. And what's interesting and what I love about his career is that in real time, becausehe did enter the public consciousness so young, is that we've gotten to see him evolve as anartist in real time and we can trace that artistic evolution through each album. In my mind,a pretty linear trajectory is just always up where I think he's gotten better and better as an artist.He's had more to say as a person through each project, whether it's your favorite or not.That's one thing.
59:26But in terms of his technical skill level, like the progression from Cherry Mom to Flower Boy to Igor, to call me if you get lost to now Chromocopia, he's just getting better and better and getting more comfortable.experimenting with different world building and sounds.And I think Igor is that nice balance between what he tried to do with Cherrybomb,which was more experimental and genre bending,what he ended up perfecting in Flower Boy, which was song structure,and finally becoming more traditional songwriter and understanding how to make catchy hooks with melody,balancing that with the rap.And so once you get to Igor, he was able to, I think for the first time,
01:00:09Flower Boy is a great album, but it's a little bit more one-dimensional than Igor.And when we get to Igor, he's perfected so many skills in his kind of toolkitthat he's able to craft an album that is experimental, is melodic, is catchy, but also unique.And it's a singular vision in terms of like, I can, just like a twisted fantasy,I can not only hear the sound of Igor.I can also like picture the album in my head.He's gotten to the point with Igor that the world building and all the ancillary visuals and music videos and everything that surrounds the album really all amalgamate into each each of these worlds that he builds with each album and each rollout.And for me, Igor, maybe I just like the sound of Igor the best because it is a little more kind of got Yeezus elements to it.
01:01:07There's a lot of distortion.It's a little rough around the edges.But then it has this great contrast in, like, melody.He's not really rapping on this album at all,which was part of the problem that he had with winning the best rap album at the Grammys,which he was very vocal about.Can I also say this, though, about this album, which I find super fascinating.If I just complimented Eminem for having one of the best voices in hip-hop,
01:01:33I think Tyler, the creator, has one of the most iconic voices.in hip-hop, but also one of the more limited ones.When we were talking about, when you were talking about Beyonce, last episode, you were like,hey, like a voice as an instrument for humans, it's like you got what you got.And for Beyonce, she's blessed by God.And I think in a different way, Tyler Crater is also blessed by God.When he arrives on the track, you know his voice.Like most people, like, how many.
01:02:07people in hip hop history where I would put Rick Ross in this ODB and like even low Waynemixtape Wayne when you hear their voice there's something that is so like cuts through the recordbut the other side of that is Tyler has been very very vocal about this is that you know he's a raplike he's an RB singer in a rapper's body he wants to sing and with each project he was pushingthat and pushing that whether it was like getting good at producingother R&B singersand then getting a little bit more melodic himself.And I think Igor is the moment where he
01:02:45finds the exact wayto use his instrumentto the best of his abilities.And that's why I love it.Because I'm like, he never gave up on it.Incrementally, it's just like,all right, how can I sell this?How can I be a singer?
01:02:58Yeah, it's the perfect phrasebecause he doesn't have a great singing voice.Just technically he just doesn't have,he can't sing.Yeah.Yet the same conversation we had about running.away. If you do it correctly, you can actually work that, you can use that as to your advantage,if you're creative with it. Like, if he does a lot of pitch shifting on this album. Yeah. In terms of
01:03:18like when we do hear his voice, for the most part, it is pitched up, which gives it just like,and he's playing this character of Igor the whole time. So it does give it this like verydistinct identity. And to your point, yeah, him with Flower Boy, he was like, he was givingFrank Goshen the hook. He was giving Calli Uchus the hook. And he was getting traditionalsingers to sing the melodies I think he wrote and he got really good at doing that but withIgor there's not a there's not a ton of features maybe he has charlie wilson come back him up so a hit likeigor does or like earthquake works but for the most part igor is all him and he is using his voicein very interesting ways um are you ready for some album trivia all right y'all i was unfairly
01:04:04attacked and ridicules for my well-researched questions.So I've tried my best and not get yelled at again.I have two questions for you.I'm going to give you, do you want the harder one first or the softball?Let's go softball.What artists gave Tyler more confidence to sing on this record?My favorite.My goat, Kendrick Lamar.
01:04:27It was Kench-Clamar.I know I'm not the best singer, but a friend of mine named Kendrick.I played him some stuff and he said, oh,this shit is just feeling.You weren't worried about the technical,being perfect with your vocal.It was actual emotion.What I find so great about that,
01:04:42to me,Kendrick Lamar is also someonewith a limited singing voice,where it's like he can do a lotwith his regular rapping voice.But when it comes to being more melodic,he's also an artistwith very incremental jumps.
01:04:54You can see from Section 80 to good kids,to butterfly to damn.Not only is he getting better.And it's funny that they're both West Coast artists,getting better at strong song structure,but getting better at selling a record.You don't have to always be hitting the correct notes.And to me, Kendrick is the master of this of just like, oh, I get the feeling of it.
01:05:14Right.I wouldn't want someone else doing this like little alien vocal.I mean, Kendrick doing that fucking shit.So that was a softball.This one is a little bit more difficult.Okay.I got one point, first point in the season.One first point in the season.
01:05:29Tyler revealed to Zane Lowe that the Igor character with the short bar,premiered three years before we got the actual album.Can you tell me where Igor was premiered?Dude, I know this.Three years before.So that's Cherry Bomb.I definitely have not known this, but this is a great question.What is it?
01:05:54He said in the interview,I had been drawing that character for three years now.It's actually in a stop motion I did for this vice show.It's a little stop motion video I did.It has black hair.Yeah.But it's the short bob cut and the glasses and the gold teeth.And I did it write this down.
01:06:09One of the things that, once again, I think Tyler is such a smart artist.He was just like, I changed up the black hair to blonde because the blonde fit better with the undertones of my skin.I'm like he's so fucking smart.Like he's so, like he's such a visual artist.And everything he does is so beautiful.But now I'm going to throw to Justin real quick.Justin, were those fair questions compared to the previous episode?Yeah, maybe a little too fair on that first one.
01:06:39You can't. You know what it is? You know what it is? It's like when you need to get something going on offense,sometimes you're just going to hit a layup, right? Sometimes you're just going to get an easy shot.Stop trying to make the threes work, right? So I appreciate you giving cold a layup.I expect him to go on a little bit of a run now, but we can see how it works.Hell yeah. All right. Biggest song, we already know what it is.Gotta go, Earthquake.Don't leaveIt's my fault
01:07:08I love this songI think you like this song more than I doWait whatThis is a perfectThis isOkay outside of YonkersThis is Tyler creator's second greatest songThis is one of his best songs ever
01:07:36This is an undeniableYonkers being Tyler's best songIs a fucking basicBetty digDude that's a horrible thingHe's never made a better songthan Yonkers stillYou're fucking crazy
01:07:46Justin, can you back me up, bro?You're fucking crazy.That is a crazy...He's made better songs than...God, I...You know, I actually...I don't know.What Charles is saying makes some sense.
01:07:58I think if you, like, go through the craftand the way the songs are written,yeah, you can find a bunch of stuff.Like, there's better songs on...Call me if you get lost.It's better songs on Flower Boy.There are better songs on this record.Has he ever made a song that's evoked
01:08:12that yonkers feeling?That can punch you.That's a hip-hop.That's a punch you in the gut.Like, I can put on yonkers right now.Motherfugs be like, that nigga was big.Damn.This fucking wild take.
01:08:30All right.Anyway, okay, Earthquake.Okay, I think a good injury point to Earthquake is knowing, I was thinking this was going to be part of your trivia that it was intentionally written for Justin Bieber.Tyler has long been wanted to be in that Pharrell kind of.kind of space in where he's producing for other people, he's writing songs for other people,not necessarily.He's trying to give Justin Bieber a couple songs.Yeah.
01:08:52And for whatever reason, I mean, Earthquake's a strange song.It does have a catchy hook and the hook is written to be like very, you know, it's a perfectpop hook in terms of it.Very simple.You can sing it on the second time you hear it.And it's an earworm.He also tried to give it to Rihanna after Justin Bieber rejected it.But I think it's a good intro point to the song
01:09:17because it's essentially just two hooks.If you actually, you don't realize itwhen you're listening to it.But the whole song is the part you just,can you make my earthquake riding around,you're shaking me up, it's making my heartbreak.And then it's the B section, don't leave it's my fault.Tyler doesn't wrap.
01:09:36He doesn't really do anything else on the songexcept those two parts.And then he gives Cardi a feature, which is like,this is a top 10 feature of all time.Oh, not of all times.but of at least the 21st century.I think it's it's it's Tyler doing the Kanye thing where it's like who else would everthink to put Cardi on earthquake like it's it's a pretty genius move because it for some
01:09:58reason it works really really well.And he distills what makes it's funny.I think for a lot of people who aren't super into hip hop when they hear Playboy Cardi,they're like what are these baby squeaks?Why the fuck this.And to me Tyler does that perfect Farrell Kanye thing.that we talk about where he knows what makes Playboy Cardi so interesting.And then he just distills it into the best pop package.
01:10:23Yeah.We ain't got them all for D. Rose.I don't get a phone about that.What is he been saying?What is he been saying?I remember I had to try to, I had to try to, because I didn't dissect on this album.So I had to analyze that first.I kind of remember what it.
01:10:36I went down like, yeah.You know, like, whoa, Vicki.The vibe is great.The vibe is great.It fits the song perfectly.What do you?I mean, what do you like about Earthquake so much?It's because Tyler the creator and I are the same age,
01:10:51I think the same reasons that I dislike himare the same reasons that I love himis because we have the same touch points culture.Oh, right, yeah.You know, when he's bringing Charlie Wilson on a record,I remember my parents listening to Charlie Wilson.He's doing his best for all impression.I remember my feelings of hearing,
01:11:13Neptune's beats, super thug and everything.Same with Playboy Cardi.Or even like the early 2000s like R&B and NeoSol that he loves so much.The artist that Tyler loves, because they're touchstones for me, like when he's, I think,especially for a younger demographic that Tyler definitely speaks to, to them when they hear a beat,they like, dog, this is the most transformational thing I've ever heard.it to me. I'm just like, oh, that's Neptunes. And not in a bad way. I'm just like,you can just hear it. And to me, I think, uh, earthquake works for me because it was like
01:11:51the first time where I'm like, I can still hear the influences, but only Tyler could have madethis record. Like I don't, yeah, I don't think Justin Bieber, this would have been a hit with JustinBueber. Like, I think just, I think Tyler has what makes this interesting. Yeah, yeah,yeah, you're exactly right. And yeah, I think also to your, that's a great point about his artistry interms of like amalgamating all his influences i think egore is the first time where it's like yeah you canstill identify influences but you would never say this sounds like that like igor is 100% i thinka singular work i don't think i don't there's not a song on here where it feels so directly derivativeof a neptune's you know you can hear the influence but he's gotten to the point where all those
01:12:36influences now you know converged into something totally brand newwhich is again so interesting about his careeryou can hear where early in his careerall the influences like a lot of a young artistare just on their sleeve it's you know it's very obviousyou go back to Cherry Bombs opening trackand it's like essentially a Neptune songbut by the time we get to Igor and everything else
01:12:59after I think he's done a brilliant job aboutso why are you hard on this songbecause to me this is not only the biggest songoff this recordI could make a very, very valid casethat this is also the best song on the record.It is undeniable.That's a great song.
01:13:17It's catchy.I just think there's more interesting songsthat fulfill my...This don't hit you in your soul.Like, I did.When I put this on yesterday,I'm like, I was dancing.I was just like, I love this.
01:13:28I can't believe I'm being so positive about it.I love it.Okay, so should we go on to best song?I'm very interested to know your best song,but I'm going with the best song.song on the album, which is New Magic Wand.I hate this song.You hate this song?
01:13:45I don't like this song.Wait, what?This is everything I don't like about Tyler.In one package.You know, this is his favorite song about the favorite song, his favorite song he's everwritten?Really?At least post-Ego, I don't know if that's still true after, like, Chromacopia, but he's
01:14:01very adamant about this song being like his best.Okay.It's a great, like, I don't know.I think it's everything, it's like, well, it's interesting making the parallel between Mbecause New Magic One is essentially a murder fantasy.So the story of Igor very quickly is essentially a bisexual love triangle where Tyler lovesa man, the man's in a relationship with a woman, and Tyler's trying to get the guy, the guylikes the girl, but is also leading Tyler on.
01:14:44And so essentially the whole album is like, it's like, it's desire, it's obsession.its release and acceptance at the end.And it's kind of lemonade in terms of like you're getting this emotional trajectory ofwhat it feels like to be rejected.And all the stages of unrequited love is essentially the story of the album.And New Magic Wand is like the bitter kind of resentful.If you don't love me, I'm going to kill you type of experience.It has the great lyric, I need to get her out the picture, essentially playing on this idea
01:15:20of a new magic wand being a Photoshop wandand erasing her out of the pictureso that him and this guycould be together.Tyler said this about New Magic Wandquote, I've also come to the conclusionthat this is my favorite song I've ever made.It's so Tyler, everything I've attempted
01:15:36in one,everything I've attempted in one executed perfectly.So if you break down the song,which I'll just play you a couple excerptsbecause the production on this song,I don't know what you'dwhat you don't like about this song,but the production is great.
01:15:54And when you hear just the instrumental,it'll give you a more of an appreciation for all the details.And when he talks about everything that I've tried to do in one song,this is part of it.The level of production and detail and production is really great.So let me just play you this clip of the verse.All those sounds.So just the little details of the Congo's coming in and out,
01:16:31the little synthesizers coming in and out.You're not impressed.You're looking at me like I'm crazy.It's a good beat.I'm not going to be a hater.Like that's a dope beat.It's just like, like, Earthquake to me,the reason I like a song like that is because I think my biggest critique of Tyler
01:16:48is that he's so busy.Like his beats,the way he,like it's every single idea he's ever had.And I think New Magic Juan is like,to Tyler's point,I think it is the best of him doing that thing.of like, I'm going to make this undeniable, but it's still going to be busy, where earthquake, to me, succeeds because he finally just kind of like, let's, it's so minimal.
01:17:11I even think at when he was performing, he was in this complex, like, basically when he was premiering the album, he said he was inspired by one of his really good friends and how minimal his house was in L.A.And those are the parts of the album that I like the most, which feel more stripped down.more stripped down.He's not trying to impress.Because to me, that's harder.Like, that's the real hard thingthere's a producer be like.And like,
01:17:37what you just played me sounds so,so,so fucking dope.It just takes me out of the minimal.I get it.Well,completely opposite of that.Because this next part is really cool,
01:17:48because there's three simultaneous vocal layers.So I wanted to point out,so when we listen,listen for the three simultaneous vocal layersstacked on top of each other.I think it's really cool.We got the Please Don't Leave Me.We got the like magic, like magic chant.
01:18:04And then a woman comes in singing, I can make her leave.And just listen to how these things all stack up on each other.I think it's a really cool section of the song.It's dope as hell.No?It's not moving me, Cole.I know.I'm sorry.
01:18:34I'm doing my best.I like to groove.Oh, well, then I'll spare you the ending.I think the ending is really cool.No, no, no, no, don't spare me.I'm still, I can be dissected still.Okay, hold on.Have you seen Tyler the creator live?
01:18:52You haven't seen this song live.Well, I haven't seen him.You're going to get so mad at me.What time in college?This was actually when I was like,I'm off Tyler.I had bought Tyler tickets and I sold thembecause I was like, I don't even want to go.
01:19:03Like, I was so just like, I'm, oh my God.This is actually Flower Boy era.Really?That was a great tour.Okay.New Magic Juan is the best song.What is your best song?What is your best song?
01:19:14Wait, wait.Before, wait for the last name?No, it's fine.It's fine.What's your best song?Can you guess?Aside from earthquake.All right.
01:19:23So if you like the strip down song, structure, you like the catchy stuff.You like, I think.That's my second favorite.That's a fucking champ.That's a great song.Tyler, Solange.We're going to talk about Solange later.Have great chemistry.
01:19:40They do.Yeah.The hook, I think, is one of the best hooks that he's ever fucking written.it's I think I fall in in lovethis time I think it's for realhow can I tell youhow can I tell like come on it's undenizedthis is what I love from Tyler
01:19:56if I could gettwo Tyler records rightif I could get like two different Tyler recordsboth would not be produced by himI would want one that is just likeget Pharrell and chat in a roomtell him to kiss and make upstop fucking beefing.
01:20:15I think a Neptune's produced Tyler record would be insane.And then the other one I would want would be in the earthquake, I think, bold and himactually like going to like R&B producers.Because while I do like Tyler's beats, I just sometimes I love when he's just rappingover someone else's production.Because I think it almost gives him just more time to be like, all right, I'm a flex.I love the flexing records.and on I think he's just so good at,
01:20:46like melody and hooks and everything.Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because I do think,I do think there's a world in which Tyler is bigger than he is now.If he doesn't, if he's not an art,a tour and doing every single part of the beat,doing everything part of the album himself,and he essentially doesn't work with collaboratives too often,do you think he would be a bigger artist
01:21:07if he did jump on other people's productionand did collaborate more?I think he would beBecause why let me preface thatWhile I think he's a very talented producerAnd why a part of a lot of the reason why I love himIs because his production is so interestingIt is also
01:21:24It is what limits him commercially, I thinkBecause it is so strange, you knowI think he potentially would be a more commercially viable artistIn terms of having bigger hit singlesI don't know if he would have the longthat he's bought himself.Yeah,great point.
01:21:45Where when you sign up for a Tyler record,whether you are super fan like you or I come in it out like me,I'm always like,I'm going to give his record a shot because I'm just like,I want to see the world that he's created.If you take somebody like Jay Cole,I think Jay Cole,Tyler's production is good enough and often great enough,
01:22:07where it's just like,I'm there.Like, I'm just like he can,like sometimes I am like,No, Justin Bieber, you should take a fucking Tyler record.You shouldn't let him produce the whole thing.Right.But I'm like, damn, if you're working with Dijon and McGee, like, throw some Tyler abode.
01:22:22But it's, yeah, like I said, it's tough because I think Tyler has now become an artist in the vein of a Kanye.And you do not get to that point unless you are so protective.Yeah.But the thing that he doesn't do that Connie does so well is I'm like, Kanye lets other producers come in.Like sometimes I'm like, hey, yo, Tyler, like, let somebody else with some drums come in here.Right. Let somebody else. Like, can you imagine if he worked with all of the same producers that Connie has brought in what they could help Tyler unlock, you know?Yeah. It's also what I love about him, though, because it is such a singular vision. It is. And he has the capability to do it. So next category.Next category. So your best song would have been, I think.
01:23:07My best song, my best song, if I couldn't pick Earthquake, if we're being interesting, would have been.I think now it's time for worse song.We already know which one I was going to pick, which is a new magic wand.Just kidding.Okay.I'm just kidding.Okay.It is actually the, your one is actually the objectively correct one.
01:23:24I think so.I mean, if you see it, I've seen it twice now live or three times now live.I don't think you could actually fully understand the song until you see it live.It is like incredible, legitimately incredible.That whole outro where after that alarm sound and then the.comes back in and he's kind of yelling it's it's really really good live song so but my worstsong is puppet i don't like puppet do you like puppet no this was hard yeah it's there wasn't it's kind of likelemonade to me where there's not just like there's not a bad i don't think there's a bad song on eager
01:24:13i think that's what makes it great but puppet to me just doesn't work in the way as well as most of theother songs do. It's got a great chorus. It's got a lazy Kanye feature that seems just improvvedand not finished. And it's the one song that works the least for me. I totally agree. But it wasfunny going listening to Puppet to your point. This is not this is not a record that and it shows youjust kind of the progression of these artists where Igor is not a hip hop record. But it's likewhen you're listening to Marshall Mathers or Blueprint, there's a number.off songs where you're like there's going to be duds.Igor is such a contained package and the same way of lemonade where you're like,
01:24:57we're not talking about worse song really.We're talking kind of the least effective song.Right.The one of that does not sell the theme or the larger arc of the album.And I think Puppie is the one for me where it's like it does not really adhere as wellor sell the world in the way that the other songs like I think or Earth,earthquake or even new magic wand do to me.Do for me.
01:25:22All right.Best deep cut was,it was a tough one to me because I think could have been a best deep cut.I don't know if that's,that's a pretty big song,but can we be friends?The last song,I really love that song.
01:25:35Boy as a gun is really good.I'm not a fan of Boy's Gun.Oh, really?I don't like Boys A Gun either.Interesting.It's okay.It's like the most traditional rap song in the album.Okay.
01:25:45I like a very specific type of Tyler rapping to be.You're like the darker.No, like, what's the, what was, what beat did he take off GNX?Oh, hey now, say now.Yeah, like, I like that type of Tyler.Just kind of like, I'm stunning and fuck, like, did it?That's a thought.We need a Tyler mixtape or something that is just that.
01:26:05That is literally, if literally, if I'm being real, before we get, I will just say,I wish that Kendrick would just send Tyler all of the G&S.Curate executive produce.I just like,I just want Tyler rapping over all theover all of them.Just see what he fucking does when I.Okay, so my best deep cut,
01:26:28I went with Igor's theme,which is a weird deep cut because it's the first song,but it's also,in terms of streams,it's not the most stream song off the album.And it's an instrumental song.It's a legitimate three minute and 20 second instrumental.And the reason why I picked it is to showcase Tyler
01:26:56as a singular producer,someone who's sound at this point his career,is very distinct, and I think Igor's theme in a lot of ways showcases his production,because it is instrumental, it shows his vision and able to craft a song that doesn't relyon your verse chorus, verse chorus structure. It has its own trajectory. It's more like a classicalcomposition in terms of like the music itself needs to carry all the weight. You can't rely onmelody in a way that you can just kind of toss to a hook and then have a contrasting verse.And when you really dissect what's going on, and Igor's theme, it's like, I think it's a
01:27:36brilliant instrumental. And I love, I love the introduction to Igor, just the 30 seconds of theone synthesizer note to me is like very iconic. Can I ask a really quick question? What is,because I've done some reading, but I want to hear your breakdown of it. What is the,the narrative importance of Igor, like the literary importance of like Igor as a name, as acharacter in terms of like this album. Yeah, I mean, it's, I think Kyler has tried to, I mean,he usually goes away from any type of literary reading. He always just like, it just looked cool.Yeah. But Igor to me, and I don't think I'm alone in this, but it's like, it's a play on thehorror archetype of the grotesque sidekick. Yeah. It's the, it's the, it's,
01:28:31It's the hunchback serving the master, the mad scientist.And this plays into the theme of him being the third wheel in this relationship,being the sidekick obsessed with this master person that he loves,and this person being indifferent about him and loving this one other thing,which in case of the mad scientist analogy, he likes the science more than he likes thesidekick, but the sidekick is in love with the scientist.And so that's the dynamic.Like, to me, like the grotesqueness of the cover plays into that too, right?
01:29:06He looks kind of deliberately harsh on the cover.And he looks angular and grotesque.Like he has the flat top.And so that was my reading of it.And I'm not alone in that reading.But Tyler just says he likes stuff to look cool, which I don't know.Artists sometimes try to undermine, you know, their own vision.But Igor's theme's cool.
01:29:28Do you know theconnection between the beginning and the middleor the start and the end of this album?Do you know this theory?It's one of my more popular theory,so if anyone's heard it so far,sorry for the redundancy here.So Igor's theme starts with the iconic note, right?
01:29:48This to me, my reading of this,it's interesting because this synthesizeris every single song on this album.So one reason why this album sounds so cohesiveis because Igor's theme,Igor, the character,is represented by this instrument,that distorted synthesizer.
01:30:07And so...That also reminds me,does, to your point about the Igor horror,like that synth reminds me very much of like,it almost sounds like an organ,like in a cathedral,just very just gothic and operatic.Not ugly, but you know what I mean,
01:30:23getting it.Yeah, it is ugly, I think, you know, quote unquote.So the interesting thing,thing is that the album also ends with the same instrument and it ends on a question,are we still friends? So we go through the album, we go through all the emotions of rejectionand unrequited love, and then he gets to a place of acceptance with gone, gone and thank you,thanking this person for the times that they had together, track the penultimate song is I don'tlove you anymore, so releasing that love, and then coming to the end, asking the question,
01:30:58are we still friends?And it's posed as a question throughout.That's the hook of the song.And so it ends on a literal question.And one thing I'll plant before I give you the breakdown,there's the skip by a drawed Carmichaelexactly what you run from, you end up chasing.So just remember that when I lay out this next thing,
01:31:21which is that the album also endswith the same synthesized instrumentholding out a single note.right a little more deflated at the end of the story but quick music theory and every key signaturethere's what's called a dominant and a tonic chord tonic cord is like the home chord it's thechord when you hear it everything resolves and you feel at home the tonic or the dominant isthe chord of tension and it's usually always played before the tonic because harmonicallythere's tension in the tonic or in the dominant and it gets resolved
01:32:00technically by the tonic and so when you realize that the last note of the album that we just heard on at the end of are you still friends is the dominant of the intro the tonic so it creates a perfect loop when you loop the album the last unresolved note of are we still friends resolves with this introduction introductory note so it creates a perfect loop which is interestingconceptually because exactly what you run from, you end up chasing. So can he be friends withthis guy or will he just fall in love with him again if he accepts him back into his life and startthe loop over? Start, you know, have you ever had that person in your life that you can't be friendsbecause there's always going to be feelings there? So it's like this enclosed loop that he's trapped in.Exactly what you run from, you end up chasing. It's all embedded. Are you dissected? Do I sell you on that?Does it make sense?I have been dissected.
01:33:01I'm very impressed.It's very cool.That is one of your better ones.That is fucking genius.It's genius on Tyler's part.He also liked the tweet when I first laid out this theory.So in my mind,that confirms the theory that was intentional.
01:33:13Oh, yeah.So what is,so what then is your biggest,is your biggest moment?Biggest moment,obviously not as iconic as Eminem's,uh,many iconic moments.
01:33:24But you remember,I played for you before this,his Grammy.Yes.Not only his Grammy speechwhen he run his first Grammyfor a rap album of the yearwith Igor, but also his performance.
01:33:36People remember, he performedEarthquake, kind of.Charlie Wilson kind of takes over.It's an acapella of earthquake,and then it cuts to Tylerwho performs New Magic Wand.And he does nod to Eminemdirectly.
01:33:48We'll put it up on the screen now.He nods tothe Slim Shady performancethat we talked aboutwhere 100 people were dressed upa Slim Shady, there's like 50 Igor's all dressed up just like Tyler. And what I love aboutthat performance and why I think it's iconic, I even started the season of Igor with this momentis because we think about Tyler being this singular artist, someone that hasn't compromised his
01:34:38sound to kind of sell out commercially, finally getting the acclaim that he's always desired.He's been pretty frank about wanting to be kind of acknowledged by a Grammy, acknowledged by thesetire things like a Farrell has and finally getting that and not and not performing earthquake notperforming the hit but doing his favorite song putting on a fucking blonde wig there's houses on fire likeit's totally that performance is totally Tyler uncompromised I love that he didn't compromise himselfwhen he finally got the moment that he was looking for we got a authentic representation of Tyler thecreator on a huge global stage. And I just, I love when artists don't compromise in that way.Like to me, that's, I love that he was just able to be himself and, and show the world who he is.
01:35:31Because if you look at the, did you see the audience's reactions?There was like what is going on, which I absolutely love. Like, I absolutely love it.And to your point, I love the, I love the Grammy speech that he had after.Because he's not, Tyler's not the first artist.especially a black artist to voice that where it's like if you're black you're either rap or rmband obviously egore he's not rapping on this album nearly at all you know and it's and i do get whyit would irk him where it's like even when you finally get this thing that you've been coveting for solong right still trapped within the confines of a very very very racist racist award i have like honestly
01:36:12no respect for the grammies just in terms of just like if you look at the history of likeYeah. Who wins? Categories, all of that. You're just like, this is about a very, very specific vision for popular music. And that usually, usually black and brown artists, women, queer artists are not part of that picture. And I think it is, it is very impressive that even at this moment where Tyler's reached this pinnacle, he's still like, but no, I got to be honest.Exactly.That's always a thing.Exactly.Say whatever you will about Tyler.He's always been fucking honest.Yeah.
01:36:52It sucks that whenever we, and I mean, guys that look like me, do anything that's genrebending or that's anything.They always put it in a rapper urban category, which is, and I don't like that urbanword.It's just a politically correct way to say the in-word to me.All right.Are you ready for the head-to-head?What's?
01:37:13This is going to get, you think it's going to get as.Dicey.All right. So just to recap, we're going to now put Igor and Marshall Mathers LP head to head. Remember that the goal of this season is to crown the best album of the 21st century so far. Right now, Charles and I must decide whether Igor or Marshall Mathers LP advances to the season finale Royal Rumble. To do this, we're going to put the five categories that we talked about for each album going head to head. One point is going to be awarded for each category win. Most total points wins. Justin is here to be our reference.and scorekeeper no longer than two minutes per category to debate them.Are we ready to start with the biggest song versus biggest song?Oh, this is interesting because you love earthquake so much.Yes.Earthquake versus Slim Shady.
01:38:01I would rather listen to Earthquake, just like my normal life in 2025, but it isundeniable that the real Slim Shady is way bigger.Is it?Okay.The category is technically biggest song.The biggest.So are we just going to, is it just an easy call then?I mean, what?
01:38:22Last time I checked, the real subshady is seven times platinum.How big is Earth?All right.Okay.I'm not going to fight.Come on.I'm not going to fight.You're right.
01:38:30Obviously.Best song, it gets interesting.This is.Kill you versus New Magic Wand.New Magic Wand, clearly.Is the more interesting, more forward thinking, more singular.Kill You, I can name, what, 20 songs that sound like that from Eminem?It's not unique in any way.
01:38:56We're not doing this again.We're not doing this again.Kill You is not only one of the best Eminem songs.It's some of the best rapping of the 21st century.Now, New Magic One is cool and it's cute.but it wouldn't evenwell I'll put it tothis way what genre if you had to pick
01:39:23a genre what genre wouldnew magic uh one be inthis is the thing about Tylerthere's not a genre R&BNew Magic 1 noElectrorapor exactly
01:39:39wait what are fucking nothingit's not it wouldn't be in the topR&B electro rapwhatever did it out it's a nothingyou want to put it in a bottomYou're saying it's bad because it can't fit in a box?No, I'm saying that we're talking about the greatest songs of the 21st century.I could make an argument that Kill You would have to be in there somewhere.
01:40:02New Magic Wand would not be the Tyler record.It would not be.Neither would kill you though.Kill you would at least if you were like, all right, Eminem songs that he's released in the 21st century.Kill you would most likely be in the top 10.I can make you an argueas it is a top 10 M&M record.I don't know if New Magic Juan
01:40:21is a top 10 Tyler record.It's like it's...It's not even the best record from that year.No, it's, I think it's,I think it's his like best song.If we did a last song standing on Tyler,New Magic, oh God, should...If we did a last song standing on Tyler,
01:40:39Earthquake would be the one that would win.No.What?New Magic Juan has a case to be made.It would have been the whole thing.Orfquake is one of Tyler's only.hits.Who cares about hits?
01:40:49Tyler's not a hit maker.So when he makes the hit,you have to honor it.Right?I don't care about hits.When you look atwhen they're like, all right,Tyler,
01:41:02whenever Tyler has his obituary,right?If we stop today,the two songs that you would pickwould be youngers.Such a basic,this is a basic ass take.So Justin,
01:41:15referee.A referee with the heavy M&M biased, I'll say.What the fuck, man?Yesterday I had a heavy JZ bias.Now I have a heavy M&M bias.I actually have a very complicated history with M&M.I want to be clear on that.If we're actually going, no, we can't get into that.
01:41:35That's a whole episode on his own.Cole, I got to be honest.I think you're kind of crazy on this one.Let's, like, before Justin picks, let's do the,I think I just play them both next to each other.Is there any song off of Igor that you would even say would come close to beatingwould be the earthquake?Can I say that?
01:41:58I actually think that Igor doesn't have any bad songs.Yeah.I would agree.Yeah.It's the lemonade,we're doing lemonade blueprint again where it's like the highs of Marshall Mather arefucking very high.But there's way more low moments than Igor.
01:42:12Igor never gets as high as.That might be true.Except.So let's play both.and just do a test.Just do nothing for you?Okay.And then let's go to the basic kill you.
01:42:31All right.Don't add extra sauce.Fuck, it's really good.It's so good.It's good.Like, it's undenacted.It's really good.Justin, make the decision.
01:42:49I'm going to kill you 100 times out of 100.Finally, a real hip-hop moment on this season.reason we like thank you it's not the best hip-hop song of the 21st century it's theis it is it one of the best opening tracks on a rap record of the century and also youplayed a moment that is a good that is a good point you played the rare moment where tyler israpping on that album and the rapping that evidence is doing is kind of rapping i mean all rightthis is actually a category i think you will win worse song for sure it's for sure remembergive me one yeah give me that is easy it's definitely remember
01:43:25Okay, one point on the board for Tyler, two for M&M, best deep cut.It's easily who knew?Igor's theme versus who knew?Let's do the back-to-back.The back-to-back does help.Let's go, who knew first?Okay, it sounds just like kill you though, by the way.What do you?
01:43:46No, go to the verse.Straight jump out, put it off with the mouth and grab you by the face.What now?Oh, you want me to watch my mouth, how?Take my fucking eyeballs out and turn them around.It's really good.It's so good.I can see it on your face.
01:44:02I know.Cole,Cole, which song would Tyler pick?Yeah, I mean, this is true.Yeah.Igor's theme, though.Come on.After the breakdown.
01:44:14You love this breakdown.So sick.Okay, this part where it.Higher, higher.Oh.So sick.Good.It's a hard.
01:44:33It's a hard back-to-back because they're just so fucking different.No, but to give you,It's going to have to be who knew.But Igor's theme is sick.So, I love that.And the part that you were describing, the ascending, like,da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.Yeah.
01:44:47So sick.And for Best Moment, we know it.It's standard.Yeah.Fuck.Eminem just washed Igor.Damn.I feel like I'm sorry, Tyler fans.
01:45:00I let you down.But I think this is a right call.I'll put it to you this way.Do you think Tyler would choose Marshall Mathers over Igor?I think Tyler would.I think Tyler 100% out of 100, like would literally be like y'all are fucking insane.Like he'd probably be mad.He's like, why'd y'all pick a ego?
01:45:14Shit, pick my rapping record.Like, but the thing that I think makes this, the thing that makes this exercise hard, but also so fun is the fact that Igor is a record that I want to listen to more in 2025.I don't put on Marshall Mathers L.P.Yeah.Which is like, I don't know if that's because I'm just aging.I don't know if that's also because, like, to me, at this point, Tyler makes more accessible music.And I don't mean that from a pop context.I mean that from like, how many days do I wake up wanting to hear fucking Eminem yell at me and how fucking hard his life is?
01:45:58Like, you know what I'm saying?Uh, versus like, Tyler.I'm just like, hey, yo, I'll hear you talking about all the, you.you know, is there's straight boys that you're falling in love with who don't want to look at you?Like, yeah, that sounds fucking interesting.Hell yeah.All right.I'm kind of mad.
01:46:14Come on.You got your first win in the season, though.Whoa,whoa,whoa,it should really be my second because last episode was stolen from me, but it's fine.Let's recap the list, though.So going into the season finale for the Royal Rumble at the end,
01:46:26we're doing Twisted Fantasy Kanye, Kanye.Yep.Lemonade, Beyonce, Marshall Matters, LP.That's a pretty good.feeling really good about this actually.Like when we think aboutthe most importantartists but also projects of the 21st century,
01:46:42I could point to eachof those artists where I'm like, you need a Kanyerecord, need a Beyonce record,you need an Eminem record. If we did thisexercise in another 25 years, I'm sureTyler's going to have an album.Like, Igor, with more timealso, this is the, I think this is going to
01:47:03end up being the album that's going to be the newestalbum that made our list.Yeah.That's also the thing.Enough time hasn't passed for those songs to have really wormed their way into thepublic consciousness.Like Eminem is etched on fucking Mount Rush.Right.
01:47:18Yeah.Should we tease next week?It's our first pivot away from the typical last long standing, even dissectsphere of our genres, our typical taste.I don't even think we should tease it.I think because it's a pivot, maybe we like.let them know.Oh, so they can listen.
01:47:37So they can like listen to them and like get a little bit more acquainted because these,I think this, both of these might be the oldest albums that we've,we've picked outside of Marshall Mathers.Yeah.So I'm going with arguably my favorite album of all time.Do you know this about me?Radiohead's kid A.Over to Pimp a Butterfly.
01:47:56It's their neck and neck.Over blonde.It's those three are my.Oh.Yeah.So I am picking.one of the most important records of all time.This was,
01:48:11this was my entry point into just like loving electronic music,as I think it was for many people.I'm going with daft punk's discovery.Hell yeah.That's going to be Daft Funk versus Radiohead is.It's actually,this is what I'm excited about.That's why I want to kind of like give people some time
01:48:26to be like, yo, like spend a week, put them both on.Especially Discovery,prepping for the episode.I was driving around.I was like,it sounds so good.it's so good.All right.
01:48:37As always, yo, thank youto everybodywho makes this show possible.Thank you to Justin.Also, big shout out to Chris.Chris, people don't know.We've been rocking hereback to back for three days
01:48:48getting these episodes together.My man Chris has been fucking,you know,just helping us behind the boards.Do you want to say anything, Chris?No.No?You don't want to say anything?
01:49:01Shit, thank you to Justin's salesbecause, you know.I like saying stuff.love saying stuff. And last was certainly notLee's yo Kevo. He's not here. He'shere over Zoom, but not in the room. But I always feelKevo's presence whenever we do this. All right. See you nextweek. See you next week, man. All right. It's time
01:49:30for our favorite part of last song standing.Now last album standing, cultural exchange.The previous episode was Lord, you gave me Lord Melodrama. I gaveyou Future's Monster. And for thisepisode I gave you. Usher's Confessions once again. You gave me Solange's a seat at the table whoshould go first. Well, I'm interested to hear you because you're a little bit rough on Solange.I don't remember if you remember last week. You kind of disregarded the album. So after returning to it,what do you think? All right. It is rare that I will do this on a mic, but I'm not always right.
01:50:11I'm often an assholeand dismissivein ways thatyou know add to the loreof my work heremy what would you callwe don't have a word for yourlike there's filmography
01:50:26this discographypodography you knowyeah I was wrongI was rightthis is a beautiful upthis is a perfect albumI thought you would like this outlike it was surprising
01:50:35that you your initial takeactually want to know what I realizednot only do I love this albumI played this album so muchwhen I was in New Yorkthat when I put it back onlike you want to know when it all crystallizedfor me how much like I fell into my like chair
01:50:54and I was like this is perfectit's the Lil Wayne songoh yeah madyeah it justit's really goodis it great you talk aboutSolange as an autour herselfgreat producer great
01:51:05visionary putting the whole thingthe visuals everythingfor this album I rememberjust likeYeah, but to your point, she uses Little Wayne perfect.We've never heard Wayne in that context.I remember feeling this way when I listen to it.I remember feeling this way now where I was like, I wish Lil Wayne the back half of his career was this song.
01:51:31It was more like this moment.And I'm not talking about like, I'm talking more about like Wayne.To me, Wayne and Eminem are kind of similar in that way where like they cram.to crystallize in amber at the time that they popped off.Yeah.Like, mixtape Wayne, the A-Milly shit, the ringtone rap, like, not ringtone, the punchlines, all of that, similar to M&M, where it's like, this was a song where Solange is like, pulled something out.You're pulling something out that's always been there in Wayne, but as he's gotten more famous, has retreated.Cranes in the Sky is a perfect song.
01:52:06That's fucking perfect.If we're doing like a last song standing for the 21st century.100% like this would be top 10 yeah like it might be top five but i went back i was like ohlike this is one of the most beautiful or innate yeah just levels to this shit like thank you formaking me listen to like i really fell in love with this album um this was great like actually listening tothis i was like it's going to be in my opinion hard to beat this record in terms of the one that i'mgoing to pick to take into the finale.I think there's a there's a strong case that we should have put it as a proper album in
01:52:46the yes I think you want to know where I think that this album the reason maybe why we did notpick it is that yesterday we were we were talking about two artists that like we made alay stage decision where I was just like it was hard for me to envision this project without picking those two artists.Right.So I was just like Solange.Close.Right.
01:53:12Not there.Yeah.Now, Usher's Confessions.Okay.Second time.Second time through.It's really, I remember giving it positive reviews last time when you assigned it to me.And my thoughts had really haven't changed.
01:53:26It's like when I put it on.And it's something that I would just never, ever, ever put on myself.Just.What do you have against soul?And dancing.But when I hear it...But when I hear it...Like when I hear a song,
01:53:43what's the song that I texted you?It was like, this one's...Oh, it's caught up.When I hear caught up...And you feeling it.Caught up.I'm losing control.This girl's got a hold on me.
01:53:56I love caught up.The run of Confessions Part 2,burn and caught up is like...It's the...I think it's the three best run,like the three song run of just likeoh this motherfuckerput his foot
01:54:09and that shitbro let it burnwhat I have a hard timereconcilingokay and also let me justI said it last timelet me just say yeahis one of the
01:54:18my most despise songswhywhatever II meanthe littlethe synththe littlelittle John
01:54:26annoying samplesomething about thatsongrather than a waythat I justI never want to hearthat song againbut I'm mostly
01:54:34I mostly want to hear your take on why this, I get why you like it personally, but why do you think it deserves a spot in the Royal Rumble as a representative album of the 21st century?Seriously, do you think it could be that or should be that?Or is it more just like this is my personal favorite.Oh, no, no, no, no, no.If this was like my own personal exercise, this would be a top, like this would be top five.This would be actually, I think this is undoubtedly, undoubtedly one of the greatest albums of the 21st century.I think the reason that I paired it with our episode,and I gave it to you after Lemonade,
01:55:10is because to me,lemonade,it's of that same lineage,where an artist takes an eventand just blows it up on a massive scale.When you think about that momentin terms of how many songs,hit songs this produced,
01:55:27this is one of the best-selling albums of all time,I would argue that we never kind of got backto this moment,in R&B againwhere this was the close of an erawhere it's like if Michael Jacksonis the peak of turninga black art form into something
01:55:46with mass appealUsher is the lastlike is of that lineageand he's the last artistwho could get there.To me when I think of like albumsthat are important just in artyou cannot tell the story
01:56:00of the 21st century and black artwithout confessions and what that meant.confessions burn caught up my boo this entire era usher and i think i think i also picked this albumbecause it was what i was telling you about lemonade i think for a lot of black artists especiallywhen it's about when it's rmb when it's about sex when it's about black love critically we tendto undermine that but when a rock star does it you know or when a countrystar. Well, this is important. Why? Because we have more context in the United States for whitelove, because movies, TV, or whatever, we're still breaking records where it's like,
01:56:46this is the first black artist to do this at the grant. This is the first black artists to do.Like, Beyonce is still trying to get the respect she deserves at the Grammys. And I think forUsher's confessions, if you look at it through a certain point, like what this album means topeople, like in the same way that people talk about like Fleetwood Max Rumors is the same.same way I feel about Usher's confession.Oh, really?But like, why does Fleetwood Mac get it?Well, yeah.
01:57:09And Usher doesn't.Where it's like, that Fleetwood Mac album is incredible.It's incredible.But it's also, it's doing the same thing.It's doing the same like front page headline news.We are making music about our life and gossip and turning it into the greatest thing.Usher's doing the same thing.But because he's a dancer and an entertainer.
01:57:33and he's doing the chain and he's a performer.We just rock criticism dinged you in the same way that they dinged Beyonce.So that is my biggest spiel on why I think confessions is him.That's a great case.You made a great case for it.Hard to deny.All right.So what's next for what are you giving me next week?
01:57:57So because Kid A is one of your most,is a seminal rock record for you,a seminal rock record for me.And I think I've already given this to you before,but when we were talking about this season,they almost made the list.Strokes is this it.I was living in New Jersey at the time.
01:58:18Obviously, this is coming in the shadowof everything that was happening with 9-11 and everything.And this was a record that got back to me.And this was part of that.This era in rock,I know a lot of people like turn their nose upat the strokes and LCD sound system.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:58:35But this was my,this is when I fell in love with rock music.I love this record.Okay.Then let me pivot then because I was going to,I'll save the one I was going to give you today.I'll match your rock album with,are you fan of the killers?
01:58:50The killers.In this same era,different stylistically.We had a conversation about how their debut,the first half of that is great.is the most undeniable music ever.The back half's rough.Are you giving me that album?
01:59:08Hot Fuss.See, Samstown, to me, is a more complete project from start to finish,but the highs are not as high as Hot Fuss.Please give me Hot Fuss.I think we need to discuss hot fuss.All right, let's do Hot Fuss.Because culturally 21st Century, that's the album.That's the album.
01:59:23Yeah, let's do that.I'm so excited.Hell yeah.
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