Dissect - Endless + Frank's Singles & Features | LAST SONG STANDING (E3)

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

Cole and Charles continue their journey to crown Frank Ocean's greatest song of all time with a special double episode tackling the staircase to nowhere, Endless, plus debate Frank's singles, loosies, and features. Official LSS S2 Playlist here. Let us know what your Last Song Standing is from Channel Orange @dissectpodcast and @charlesxholmes. Producer: Justin Sayles Audio Editor: Kevin Pooler Theme Music: Birocratic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing. I'm Cole Kushna. And I'm Charles Holmes. And in this second season of Last Song Standing, we're diving deep into one of the most mysterious artists of the generation, Frank Ocean. Cole and I are debating our way through his entire catalog in an effort to decide what's the greatest Frank Ocean song of all time. Yo, Cole, we are two episodes into this season. I'm actually feeling a little nervous about my list. How are you feeling about your list? Okay, so let's just recap for the listeners. My list so far, channel,

Orange, my selection was bad religion, and my selection from Nostalgia Ultra was Novocaine. You picked Pyramids off of Channel Orange and Swimgood off of NostalgiaO ultra. I do have an admission here. I think since last week, since our Nostalgia Ultra episode, I think you're right about Swimgood. I think you're right that it is better than Novacay. Wait, what convinced you? I was listening to it after we talked.

I was like, let me just listen to these back to back. And I was like, oh, Swimgood does kind of hit. It hits a little bit better, a little more timeless than Novocaine. All right. Here's my issue. I don't want to be the basic betties of music podcasting, but three out of our four picks are pretty big singles, which I'm like, damn, like, should we have thrown in one more deep cut in there?

Are we about to do that today? You know me. I'm coming with some heavy hitters. Are you feeling good that we have so many fan favorite singles up front? I think we're doing pretty good. I still feel really good about the channel orange picks. I think bad religion and pyramid shows both sides of what Frank Ocean is and what he represents. So I feel really good about those.

You know, nostalgia ultra, I think is a flawed album for this exercise just because there are so many remakes. But I think we're doing pretty good. I'm going optimistic. I feel you. I feel you. But it's time. Usually we cover one album per episode and are forced to choose just one last song standing from that project.

Then in our season finale, our picks from throughout the season, Duke It Out, until we both can agree on what is the single best Frank Ocean song of all time. But today, last long standing is embarking on a Frank Ocean musical Odyssey, a double episode, if you will. We're taking a staircase to nowhere with 2016's visual album endless, but first we're tackling all the Lucy's demos, features, and covers. Hopefully along the way, we will reveal a hidden truth. Often the best Frank Ocean music never makes it to a Freight Ocean album. I want to feel like some Gucci's in. Open the sky get an end.

I want to know what makes a good, Frank Ocean Lucy. Because I think what's happening to him over the last couple of years has been very, very interesting. Since blonde and endless, Frank has essentially, said fuck that. And he gives us like if we're lucky like two or three songs a year, sometimes at this point it's trickled off to maybe like one. But these songs have been phenomenal. So like what to you is the ideal Frank Ocean Lucy? Yeah. I mean, simple answer is just you know, just a good complete song. And I think for the most part he's given us that. It's not like a lot of these singles that we think of and we're thinking, yeah, post blonde endless era starting

with 2017 all the way to 2020. Every one of those singles stands on its own, has its own kind of musical universe. All the songs kind of go together when you listen to just a playlist of those singles. They feel pretty cohesive. And I think that speaks to Frank's kind of mindset around these singles. Like he very recently, I think in early this year in January, I believe, he was sending out some merch that he was selling on Blondin.com. And one of them was a poster. And on the back of the poster was this like, I don't know what you call it, a letter or some writing.

And it was about this fictional artist, which was Frank Ocean, but it was being kind of artful about it, talking about himself. And he was said, on the poster, it said, quote, this artist believed that albums were outdated and that releasing singles is more suited to modern consumption habits where people curate their own playlist, which are then shared. within private circles. So during this time, he's talking about that 2017 to 2020 era, and he was kind of, you know, living out this philosophy of just releasing singles and not concentrating on album so much. In that same poster, though, and this is where everyone got excited, he said, it says, quote, the recording artist has since changed his mind about the singles model and is again interested in more durational bodies of work, which, you know, everyone's predicting that

that means an album is coming. But I say that to say, it's very frank ocean, these singles is that very thought out, they're a part of a larger strategy, and they had some, like, philosophy behind them, which was at that time, him believing that singles were more suited to the modern era. So whether you agree with that or not, you can tell there's just intention behind these singles more than probably most would think out. And it, and it, you know, stands in the music. We can feel that intention in the music, because these aren't throwaway songs. These are really, really well-crafted songs that are some of his best work. I hate the phrase durational bodies of work. It means absolutely nothing.

Like, don't call my podcast podcast anymore. Call them durational bodies of work. I hate when artists do that shit. Like, stop. Stop, people. But no, I think Frank said it. I don't think Frank's original hypothesis was wrong in terms of thinking that we were in a post-album landscape, but even if you look at this year, Siza is going to have one of the best

selling albums of the year, period. And she is also another artist who is an album artist. And I think what Frank probably took for granted about how people consume his work is that I don't think people listen to a Frank Ocean album once and like, all right, that's cool. Here are my favorite songs. Like, I don't put a bunch of songs from Blonde on a playlist. If I want to listen to blonde, I just listen from front to back. It's like one of the rare albums.

I'm not like I'm not throwing it on shuffle. I'm not. I'm most likely like going in. I might listen to one-offs, one in here. But like what about you? When you're listening to Frank Ocean, are you digging a bunch of Frank Ocean songs out of context of putting them on playlist?

I don't I don't make playlist. Like I'm an album guy. I listen to albums front to back. I don't do the single thing. You don't make playlist, period. No. Like, I'll sometimes make my best of the year playlist so people can listen to my favorite songs of the year.

But that's pretty much all the playlist that I make is like one a year. What happens like when you in the house alone, you want to throw some ass? You want to like just like vibe out. You know what I'm saying? You're just listening to a whole album? Yeah. This is insanity, Cole. Wait, Justin, like log on really, really quick.

And then we will continue with this show. Justin, is this odd behavior? I usually try to stick up for Cole in these discussions. I usually try really hard, but Cole, as someone who himself at one point would have described himself as an album guy, you really don't ever make playlists these days in 2023?

No, dude, if you can't hold my attention for an album, you don't deserve my attention, sorry. But what about like older songs? Like, let's just say like you're in a radio head mood. You're never like, yo, let me just see if I could like sequence my perfect radio head album. Radiohead album. No, there is no way in hell I'm putting radio head on a playlist.

Like, that is blasphem. You heard it here first. Cole listens to Pablo Honey all the way through every time. Okay, well, I'll say this about Frank singles. To your point about him being an album artist, these singles did not quench the thirst of Frank Ocean's fan wanting this next album, right? Like, he gave us like eight singles or something over the past three or four years. We're in that stretch. And, you know, people were still asking for the album.

So to your point, yeah, people want the full body of work. They don't, I think everyone appreciates these singles and cherishes them. But we also want that follow-up album that we have yet to get. But also, let's be clear, a lot of the ones that we're talking about, I can understand why I didn't put them on the project. Not because they're bad. Some of them are almost so perfect as songs. I know, yeah. That they would have probably detracted.

Like, can you imagine, I don't know, pick one. Can you imagine like biking, being thrown. on blonde. Like, it would fuck up the vibe so much. And that's not taking anything away from biking. It's just some of the songs that Frank Ocean drops his singles, I'm just like, yeah, this wouldn't fit on a Frank Ocean. Like, this is like, cool.

This is a perfect song. But I don't want this on like my very well curated piece of art, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, they feel like single. They feel like self-contained songs, which again, I think was the intention. if he was being so intentional about these singles, I think he wrote these singles in mind in the same way that he wrote all the songs on Endless with a certain vibe or environment in mind,

a certain concept in mind. The singles were a concept and we feel that in the music. Yo, I couldn't agree more. We are now going to get into the thing I've been waiting for all seasons. We're going to duke it out about the Lucy's. But before that, we have a commercial break. And then it's time for Super Quiz Kids.

All right, welcome back to last song standing in the first half of this special double episode. We're covering Frank Ocean, singles, and Lucy's. That means any song, not on Nostalgia, Ultra, Channel Orange, Enlist, or Blonde is in contention. Cole and I will nominate three singles each and then be forced to choose our last single standing. Oh, you changed it. Last single standing. Ooh, okay. I like that, Cole.

The one single we're taking with us to the season finale. All right. So usually we start this part of the episode talking about albums, background, and themes. But since it's just the singles and we already kind of set him up before the break, we're going to go ahead and jump into my favorite segment of the show. Maybe Charles's favorite segment of the show. Charles, you want to stay it with me? Super Quiz Kids. All right. Yo, can I go first? I think I have, I think I did well. I think I did well. But I probably did it. All right. Let's hit me. All right. What artist does Frank share the most Hot 100 entries with? I'm talking about collaborations, like song where these two artists are on the same song. So it's Frank and someone else? It's Frank and someone else. So who is, who has he collaborated with the most that with songs that have charted? Is that the question? On the hot 100. Ooh, as a feature or as a songwriter? It's a mix. Interesting. Is it Kanye? It's not Kanye. Oh, wow. Okay. I'll give you two more. Okay. Um, Jay-Z. It is Jay-Z. God damn it. Hell yeah. It is Jay-Z. I was surprised. I was like, oh, it'll be like Tyler the Creator or something. No, it is Jay-Z with no church in the wild, oceans and caught their eyes. The latter two songs I forgot existed, which is why I was like very, I was just like, wait, these songs charted. Okay. I guess they did. Yeah, that's interesting fact, though. I like that question. It's a good one. Okay. Did I get it right? Is that a half right? Is that a half right? Half.

No, you get it right. I was going to give you 30. You got it on the second try. Okay. That's a correct one. All right. So for my first one, when this song featuring Frank Ocean was released, it was reported that Frank issued a cease and desist order to have the song taken down or his feature removed.

What song is this? Oh my gosh. I used to know this. This is going to drive me insane because I used to know the answer to this. Fuck. Oh, give me a little hint. Okay. his name's coming up a lot recently

it is either a Travis Scott or ASAP Rocky song it's Travis Travis Travis I do is Travis what Travis so on Astro World the song Carousel Frank has a really great feature but apparently TMZ when that song came out reported that Frank issued a cease and desist letter because he didn't like the vocals on the track and then Frank took to Tumblr to say this quote

I think the song sounds cool. I did it in like 20 minutes and the mix sounds the way Travis wanted it to sound for his record. I also approved it before it came out. So the cease and desist wasn't about, and it has an emoji for the sound. And then it was about and it has like a rainbow flag, which I think means pride. So it wasn't about the sound. It was about pride. Me and Travis resolved it among ourselves weeks ago.

So he does confirm there was a cease and desist, but it seems like before the song came out, Maybe he heard it was going to come out and didn't. I don't know. They're cool now, but yeah, it was a little bit of drama. It sounds like. Damn, that's a good one. I did have that feature. I remember all of this.

Here's the thing also. I'm almost positive. I was working at Rolling Stone at that time. And I've just blocked out so many of my memories. I think I was blogging about the track of record. So I've definitely blacked out that entire night. I was very angry. Anyway, I have another one for you call.

All right. What is the only Frank Ocean Lewis? Lucy, song not on an album that's gone platinum. Oh shit. Song not on an album. Are you counting nostalgia ultra as an album? So nostalgia ultra is an album. Okay.

It's got to be Chanel. How did you know? Come on, man. You got to, I mean, I appreciate you giving me realistic questions, but come on. Here's the thing. The reason why I was like surprised at it, Chanel is that like when you go to Frank Spotify. Like a lot of people

have listed to Chanel, but it is not like pink and white is above it. There's a couple other songs that are above it where I'm just like, okay, Chanel not is popular anymore

as I thought. Damn. I think so. I mean, I'll give you my third. I'll give you my third though. Since that was, you got that easy.

I don't have a third. So this is going to be the tiebreaker. There's another hot 100. What is the highest charting Frank Ocean song on the Billboard Hot 100? And where did it place? The highest charting. Starting Frank Ocean's song.

Can't be thinking about you because that would be too obvious. And you wouldn't make that a question. So it can't be. Is it on blonde, maybe? You just said pink and white. So it can't be that. I feel like I'm just missing. I feel like it's obvious and I'm just missing it.

It is obvious, but there's a reason I picked it. Oh, am I overthinking it? I think you're overthinking it a little. Is it thinking about you? It is not. it is slide by Calvin Harris and Migos. Oh shit. Okay.

Okay. That's not Frank's song, but okay. Whoa, what are you talking? That is his song. No, that's technically, uh, what's this? Calvin Harris's song. But it is the highest turning Frank Ocean song. All right.

I love that song. It plays at 25. Wow. So not even that high. The highest charting Frank song is 25. Weird. That is weird, actually. Um, I love that song.

We might talk about it later. Um, Okay, so here's my second question. How did Frank Ocean premiere his single Chanel? And who was featured on the official Chanel remix when it premiered? Easy. A sap Rocky, and I believe he premiered it. I want to say, wait, was it Blondered Radio?

No, it was Blonded Radio, but I'm looking for a little bit more specificity around how he premiered it on Blondered Radio. Do you remember the details of it? I remember that he played the shit out of it. Yeah, okay. Like he played, did he play multiple versions of it? Yeah, he played it 18 times in a row for an hour straight. And there's three different versions of it or three different endings of it. And one of them included ASAP Rockyverse.

So you got that one. Yeah, we're no ASAP Rocky verse in this household. In this last longstanding household. I felt it sounds like you recorded it on the phone or something. But yeah, that was a great super quiz kids. I got one. You got two. All right.

That means you get the first choice. What do you want the first choice for? Lucy's are endless. I already know what you're going to be. Give me Lucy's. And the winner is, Frank Friko. All right. So there's a lot to work with.

Let me just say I've been spending this whole week listening to the Lonnie Bro collection, listening to the singles, listening to the features. We've got to just started off right. We already talked about it. It's one of his best songs ever. it's a huge song, I'm going with Chanel. It was on pretty like a girl. And he got five stories to tell.

I see both sides like Chanel. See on both sides like Chanel. It was on my list too. I was like, do I pick it knowing that Cole is going to have it? Just so we can like have more songs. But I'm just like I wanted to be put in the record that I also picked Chanel. Yeah. I think, no, I think that's right.

I assume we're going to agree on this. I think all Frank Ocean fans love this song. I think it's a very valid choice to be in the running for the best Frank Ocean song of all time, even though it's not on an album. It's that good. So produced by Jamari, who also, it's a Swedish production duo that also produced biking and lens. So apparently Frank was working quite a bit with this duo during this time. it's got one of the best opening lines of the past decade.

I don't know. Oh, it is one of my favorite opening lines of just all the time. It is perfect. Like my guy pretty like a girl and he got fight stories to tell. Just like a great writer. First line gives you everything you need to know about the identity and the concept of this song. Contrasting, you know, the man with pretty and fight, the masculine versus feminine. And then he says, I see both sides like.

Chanel, see on both sides like Chanel. And it's just like the melody. Everything about the opening of the song is absolutely perfect. Of course, we get the cool CC Chanel wordplay here. I think most people know this, but the Chanel logo has two opposing Cs combined together. Wait, are you please don't tell me you're about to do like, Charles, this is a five entendre. This is a quintal It's only a triple entendre. So we got the, you know, on the surface, the Chanel logo, two C's. But he also is seeing both sides.

So he sees both sides. He sees the masculine and the feminine. So that's number two. And fun fact, Coco Chanel herself was bisexual. So. I don't know if that last one. Wait. What?

That's not a third. No. That's like a factoid. That's not a, that doesn't go in the triple one. You don't think he knew that about. Coco Chanel. I think this is a reach goal. Nah, I don't think so, man.

I think that's so spot on. I don't, in my brain, it's like 100%. There's no doubt about it. Anyways, but we both agree this is a perfect opening line. I mean, there's so much to say about this. I have some, I have a little bit of a breakdown because I, so what's interesting is that we've been talking about Frank Ocean, Channel Orange and Nostalgia Ultra, which is early Frank, which is a very story driven Frank.

And we're going to talk a lot about his, you know, creative. switch with blonde, but, you know, going to this song, it's so, um, not abstract because you, it's not, it's not totally free associative, but it's, it's not a story. It's kind of more of like a kaleidoscope, like a composite of Frank's life. Like, we're just getting the details of his day-to-day life, um, which is just so different than the more objective, channeling the emotion through story approach that he was so kind of focused on for Channel Orange and Nostalgia Ultra that, I don't know, it's just like, it's like a painter, you know, like Picasso going through different phases of his cubism and the blue period.

Like Frank has those periods already in his music where it's like, oh, that was storyteller Frank. And now we've reached this different version of Frank. And with the next album, I'm sure it's going to be totally different. So let me, I'll come back to some lyrics that I want to point out. But this was on your list too. So make the case as well. I think I had to pick this because one of my favorite genres of music, like hyper-specific genres, is the post-album Lucy where like a rapper just talks their shit. They're like, dog, I'm that nigger.

You know what I'm saying? Like whenever like Kendrick has done it, Drake has done it. It's the one that didn't make the album. Tyler does it. Yeah. But it's like they're getting something off their chest because I do think that if you know about blonde and you know about endless, you can tell that it was a very agonizing process for Frank. Not only, we'll talk about it later, but not only is he trying to separate himself from the Def Jam deal, but he has writer's block for over a year. And everything from Endless and Blonde feels very, very intentional.

And Chanel just feels so loose. And like he's just having fun. And he just does not have that thing on his back that is forcing the song to be creative and daring and all of these things. Like this is a creator song. This is a daring song. But it's not, it's not, it doesn't have a million beat switches and layers on top of layers. It is Frank just rapping really, really well and very cleverly. And that's why I think you have to put it because sometimes the best art from artists is not the most complicated.

Sometimes it's just the most direct. And this is just such a shot. Like this is just a shot in the veins direct Frank Ocean song. There's no fat. I love for that. I also think it's like one of the funnier. Drake saw, uh,

not Drake, but it does remind you. What the fuck? Dude. What the fuck? It does remind me of it, Drake. Drake.

What are you talking about Drake on this podcast for? Whoa. Stop. Okay. Stop. All right. We're, we're getting what's the,

what's the new Drake album with the fucking dumbass title? It's about to be a classic. For my dogs. Oh my God. For the dogs. For the dogs. Gosh. Oh.

Can't wait to listen to that once and never again. Cole, can you let me be happy? Can you stop being negative? I did rank in order the best lines from Chanel. Can I give them to you? Oh, shit. Okay. Hell yeah.

All right. Number four, this isn't like, oh, that's a tight punchline. It's more so I'm just like, this is just like a tossed off line that just like paints a picture in just such, with such a brevity. But it says 2016, bertsome disc, 2017 ideas playing off a walkman. It's just like. Oh, that's sick. Yeah. I'm just like, it is such a like a little stunt, which I like in verses.

Right. Where it's just like, it's not like he's telling y'all, I'm the shit. But it's low key what he's telling us. Number three is a long one, but I'm just like, hey, man, I like this. Dick could roll the eyes back in the skull. Rolling when you ride popping. Rolling when you ride, ride the rod bin. Great.

Like, I just love it. I love the internal rhyme. I love the alliteration. Talk that shit, Frank. At number two, I'm going to put, I see both sides. Chanel, see on both sides like Chanel. Because arguably this is the line of the song in terms of

that's what people remember. But it is not as good as the number one. My guy pretty like a girl and got five stories to tell. That is obviously the number one. Is that am I wrong in that assertion? Well, see, this is where I have our time to even just separating

the two lines. To me, they're the same. So it's I can't even separate him. But it forced to, yeah, that opening line is just immaculate, absolutely immaculate. But I mean, it's one of the greatest openings ever because we get those two phenomenal lines back to back and they work so well together. So yeah, I think, I think that's, you got it. Yeah. So break down to me, let's go into Cole's corner. Like break down to me, what is it about Chanel you love? Because I thought there was a very,

very big chance that you would not like the song. Oh, really? No, I love it. I feel like you don't like Stutton songs. You don't like, you don't like that. That's not your vibe. Okay, but here's a, but, but the way he does it, I, you can do anything on a song in a piece of art. Whatever the, the, the base of the ideas, I don't really care. If you execute it well, I'm going to respect it. And that's what he does here. Damn, I get why you love some Drake songs, you know, it doesn't matter what he's talking about the execution is always. Thank you, Cole. I agree. Keep saying about Chanel. Okay, so, I mean, structurally, we have the refrain see both sides like Chanel.

That's the only, that's really the only thing that's holding this song together structurally. Because it doesn't have a chorus, but you actually think it does weirdly, but it's only those two lines. If he didn't have those in, I mean, those are like kind of placeholder bookmarks to just like anchor you in, but it's only one line. And if you, if you, and I didn't realize this until I like sat down and like really studied what was going on. like this song is crazy structurally. It starts with the half singing, half rap. And then, you know, he goes into that beautiful bridge section. It's really you that's on my mind and it's full singing. And then he gets into that really high pitch verse or whatever you want to call it, where he says, V both sides of the 12th, steam both sides of the L. And he's really like up in his

high register, like screaming it almost. And then he does the refrain and the falsetto voice, you know, the see on both sides and Chanel, but really high pitched. And then the outro, we get a whole new new melody, whole new bridge section where he's like, you know, my pocket swole that can't hold my seven, you know, it's like very melodic and probably the most catchiest part of the song comes last and never repeats. It's just like, it's just a full on, like, it's just one continuous verse almost and it just kind of mutates over time. But it doesn't feel all over the place, right? It feels very contained and very, very clean. So just structurally, it's like very masterful and subtly complex.

But then, like, when I was taking a closer look at the lyrics, it's like this idea of duality, at least in like the first, I noticed it mostly in the first kind of verse. But he just does really interesting things lyrically that I, that really the only other person that came to mind that I could compare to was like how M.F Doom writes his lyrics, which is like this hybrid of like stream of consciousness where one idea kind of just builds abstractly to the next. but then when you take a step back, you're like, oh, this all kind of like works together

and like there is actually a central theme. And so let me just like quickly break down a few of those opening lines after the, you know, opening refrain. He says, swimming laps through pool water, heated like I'm underworld. So he says this, the key thing here I wanted to focus on is like the idea of underworld. He's comparing his heated pool being underneath like, you know,

swimming to the depths of hell or some, you know, underwater where it's warm. But then he says, hide my tattoos in Shibuya, which like, if you think about it, when you're swimming, you're mostly naked, or you're, at least your chest is exposed. And so you see the, the loose correlation there. And then he says, police think I'm of the underworld. And so now he says, he rhymes underworld with underworld, which is kind of weird, but it's like, okay, watch. That's actually intentional because he's going to do this duality thing throughout, where he uses

the same word twice in different ways, two sides like Chanel. He says, 12, treat an N-word like he's 12. So he just does it back-to-back, 12-12 with two different meanings. And then he says, how you're looking up and talking down? So we get the duality of up down there. And then you can't see, can't you see that I'm the big man, God level, I am the I am, which is again, I am, I am, 12, 12, underworld, underworld, and it all goes back to this concept of duality that he laid out in the beginning with the two sides of Chanel.

So it's like it sounds like he's just kind of riffing, but it's like, oh, when you really look into it, of course Frank is being extremely brilliant in the songwriting. It's like you think about Channel Orange and like some of those stories are so virtuosic in terms of its composition and its writing. But there's an argument here that this is just as nuanced and complex and thought out as those more conceptual songs. So just some details that I think that I definitely overlooked when I just am just enjoying the, the song casually. And when I just took a closer look, I was just amazed. I was like, of course, of course, Frank is going to, is being brilliant. We just aren't really recognizing it. As always, Cole, you are brilliant. Like, you are brilliant. Nothing you said was wrong, but I'm here to ask the tough questions. Do we ding Chanel at all as a song for having the line with a cup and a cup

activist that's a double edge is a knife? Where, You know where I'm like Frank? Double-edged sword. Come on. Duality. Come on. He's doing it. Yeah, but that's one of those lines that every rap song, like, of this type has. Like, this to me is basically a rap song where you're just like, damn, there's that one punchline that was like almost aged like an avocado when it was released. And you look back now, you can. We could have kept this one off, you feel me?

That's my only great. That's my only great with Chanel. Didn't really age well. The song did, that it's a knife mention, not cool. All right. Well, we both agree on Chanel. I love it.

We're off to a great start. So I'm going to throw it back to you for your first, I guess your second pick, but your first original pick. You have to get it out of the way because I'm so afraid that we picked two of the same songs. I'm pretty sure we probably did,

but let's hear it. And we can't do that. Cole, slide by Calvin Harris. Oh no, I did not. You did it? Hell fucking yeah. Slide is amazing.

Do you slide on all you're nice like this? Do you try on all your nights like this? I might. Here's the thing. Slide is a core memory for me because the year that this dropped, I was fucking drunk all the time. And for some reason, New York DJs would just play this every single time I was at the peak of my tipsiness. Like I would just be drinking a cocktail. I'm like,

Doctor Blank slide. And every single time, I was just like, this is the best song that's ever been created. So this brick, that is my core memory of being like a dumb 20 something. I'd be like, damn, I just want to go out and get fucked up tonight and maybe the T-T-T will play slide. Okay. So Charles, Charles, you consider this a Frank Ocean song or do you figure it's like a Frank Ocean feature? He is the intro. He's the intro. He's. the chorus he has a verse and then like quavo and offset come in that is like that means it's your song so so it's okay so it's frank ocean produced by calvin harris featuring megos in your mind to me that's like that's how i like that makes i know that like in the industry we're like

it's a dj caldick song i'm like motherfucking if justin beber is singing on this shit and got a verse it's a july justin beber song and dj cal just pulled some strings and like i like Calvin Harris. I like Funkwave bounces volume one. Like Calvin Harris is talented. He's a talented producer. I guaranteed he had a lot to do with this song. But, but when the voice comes out of the speaker, I'm like, this is a Frank Ocean song. I'm not like, oh, Calvin Harris is on. You know what I'm I've never done that. Drunk Charles has never been like, throw on that Calvin Harris joint, you know? Anyway, I think the reason that I like slide is that I was thinking about. this today in the middle of a PB and Jay setting the mood for you setting the five for the listeners

okay I would just like I think the Frank's Achilles heel as a songwriter is that what it makes to make a great universal song usually means you're picking the right choice and not the best choice or the most interesting one and I think Frank yeah nine times times out of 10 cannot help himself to choose the most interesting way to do something, which usually is not the catchiest. Like, to make a great pop song requires repetition. The audience, the listener needs to know where you're going. You want to get that high and low of them.

Like, all right, that chorus was sick. When's it coming? When's it coming? I'm waiting for it. Oh, shit, it's here. You get to the bridge. This bridge is dope. The chorus is about to come.

That high, you want that shit. Most Frank Ocean songs, like, we just talked. about Chanel. Chanel doesn't have that. Chanel almost feels aimless and nonlinear in its approach. It is not a pop song in the traditional sense. Slide is. Like Calvin Harris knows how to do this. He knows how to make this type of shit. The chorus from Frank is probably his most, one of his most simple. It's just, do you slide on all your nights like this? Do you try on all your nights like this? I'm like, okay, we got it. We're in. We're out. He's not doing too much texturally. A lot of Frank Ocean's best songs, my favorite songs of his, he's doing so many things with his voice.

He's singing in falsetto. He's lethargic. He's rapping. Okay, he's pitching his voice up. He's pitching his voice down. You're hearing two vocals pan at the same town. It's like, it's music critic catnip. But it's the reason when I tell people blonde is one of my favorite albums.

They're like, who? What? You know, like normal people. Cole, you are aware that like blonde is not that popular of an album. like the normies don't fuck with blonde one of the normies no come on though they all you could this is like a litmus test out blonde is a litmus test album to me you like blonde you have great taste that's not true there's people who hate blonde who have great taste i don't know man i just don't know like i honestly yeah i think so i think i think i think i love blonde it's like i love blonde it's one of my favorite

albums of all time but if you wanted me to be a hater for an episode like like i could i think I think. Anyway, back to slide. Yeah, I think slide works just because it's, it's one of the rare times. I think that a producer had enough power in the equation to know exactly when to pull Frank back. And to just deliver what needs to be delivered, which is a perfect, a perfect slice of like pop pie. And like every single time I hear this song, I do. wonder what is the version of Frank's career that is even 5% more in this direction. I'm not saying he has a better or more interesting career, but would he have more songs in his discography that you're like, okay, like, I can listen to this. Like, Chanel and Slide are two sides of the same coin for me. I'm like, I can just listen to this in a way. I can't just listen to bad religion every day.

I just can't do that. Yeah, well, you make a great point about. a producer's input and a producer with, I'm assuming, Frank respected since he did a song with him and that's pretty rare for Frank. Because, yeah, you think about Blonde endless. It's like Frank was the producer on the, you know what I mean? He was working with other musicians, but it's not like he brought in Rick Rubin and like, or had some visionary come in and sculpt the album. Like, pretty sure he did that with his own hands for the most part, you know. And yeah, that's a really great point because I think what you need, call it a feature or whatever you want to call the song.

one of the great things about features is that you can showcase a side of yourself that you might not want to showcase on your own your own stuff and you think back to like nostalgia ultra jays or the loni bro collection where he was a songwriter you listen to those songs and it's like very very very very clear if frank ocean wanted the type of career that you're alluding to he could have done it he was a brilliant songwriter he could make the hooks when he needed to he usually did that for other people because he wasn't personally interested in putting out that kind of music Yeah. But had he worked with a, you know, a strong production team, had he gone the traditional route. I have no, there's no doubt in my mind. He could be one of the biggest artists on the planet, you know, like he has the capacity to, then the talent to do that. But yeah, to your point, I mean, I love slide.

I'm glad you picked it because it's definitely, it's not on my list, but I love the song. It's probably one of my most list, like this, okay, this would be a playlist song for me. Oh, word? You, you're giving it that distinction call? This would be a playlist song for you. Yeah, yeah. If you're going to make a party mix, like this would be a perfect quality, non-cheasy party mix. This is the exact kind of song that I would put on it on a mix like that.

Cole, this is a special, special moment in podcasting history. You said this would be a song that you would play at a party. And I want to award you the first anti-scaring-the-hoes award. Like that is, I've never been like, okay, yes, Cole. This is an appropriate song to play when company is over. Play slide. Everybody will enjoy them. no one wants to listen to in rainbows you know on like a Saturday night when we're all trying

to get fucked up you know it's just a different type of vibe and I like in rainbows I like in rainbows guys but this is how do you feel how do you feel about this award the anti-scaring and the host award that's good maybe I should okay maybe for the finale is I'll make you a cool's party playlist and you can judge me on it that a good idea there's nothing more in my life that I want to do with my time, then judge your party play. Like, I want to know what songs you think are appropriate for people to like be playing together. But you have to set the vibe, what type of party it is. We're going to have a long conversation about this. But promise me this and then we can go to your song. Whatever the playlist is, it has to be for public consumption. Everybody has to get to see it.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. Let's fucking go. Let's fucking go. All right. So I pick slide. What were you going with? One last thing on slide only because it's one of my favorite Frank Ocean lines ever is the opening line, empty my bank account, buy the boy with the pipe. Like, such a flex, referencing a Picasso painting. Dope. Like, that is catnip for me. So my next pick, I thought this is the one that we're definitely going to agree on.

I'll be surprised if it's not on your list because I think it's in contention for the best Frank Ocean song of all time, biking. I don't get weak in the knees Honey's better like a fan Be real with yourself Be real with the audience Be real with the audience Be real with the audience

Biking was never going to touch my list And that is not because like biking is a bad song It is not a bad song Biking is a fine song I have not thought about biking until we were doing this experiment. What? It was a song at the moment where I was just like, of course, it has a JZ verse that is God awful. Like this cannot be in contention when the whole verse is this bad.

And this was a point where I was just like, yo, Hove, I love you, bro. Like, I will love you forever. You're the goat. Negro, stop. Okay? Like, the fact that you have, please tell me it's at least, I like biking solo. I do like the biking solo version way better than I like the ASAP Rocky J version. Okay, so that was a big debate in my own head, and I even asked some friends about it.

Especially for this exercise, I do think I prefer biking solo. Hell yeah. I really appreciate the biking with the features just because it's a really cool concept and everyone gives their own iteration of what biking means. It's like very cool. And it's Tyler J. and Frank on the same track. Beautiful. What are you laughing at it?

It's a really cool concept. I was like, no, bro. I've seen Jayzie ride a bike. Like, Jayzie was cursed at birth. Like, God was just like, hey, man, I'm going to make you one of the greatest artists of all time. You're also going to marry Beyonce. The only, like, the only downside is any single time you are photographed doing any type of physical exertion, you will look like the biggest dwee on the planet. And I am sorry, Jay, I want to go to the Rock Nation brunch.

I really, really do. I'm sorry to not blacklist me Rock Nation. I will sell my soul to you. But no. Like a song called biking with Jay-Z on it is like a cursed proposition. I'm sorry. Please tell me you're picking the solo version. Just please.

Yeah. In this exercise of last long standing, I am picking the Franks solo version. Okay, cool. I'm less mad. Okay, here's why I love it. Here's why I love it. You clearly don't love it as much as me. Fine.

This song, okay, you know what text painting is in music? It's when the music, and a lot of times, like the melody will sound like what it's saying. So if you're saying, I feel high and you sing that with a high note, you know, you go high on the word high or you go low and the, you know, the word low, that's text painting. Okay. To me, like this, this entire song feels like you're biking. Somehow, this acoustic guitar feels like you're on a bike. I don't know if you get that, but from the moment this song starts and he says the brilliant opening line, arm stretch of tea like I nailed it, I feel like I'm on a bike. and it's just like this joyous, euphoric, like free kind of song.

It's like, it just makes me feel so warm and so good. It's like, it's like what he did with Channel Orange, which was like channeling emotion through song, one specific motion. I think that's what he's doing with biking. And like the song, the emotion, the feeling is the freedom that you feel on a bike. And mostly when you're an adolescent, that feeling of freedom, leaving your house, being on your own. for the first time and just feeling like the world was so open. And that's the feeling that I get when I listen to this song. It has some really, really beautiful lines.

That first line, arms stretch of tea like I nailed it. So the service level play is like you nail a trick on a bike and you, you know, classic poses like lifting your arms up. But he's also evoking Jesus. Arms stretch a tea like I nailed it, nailed to the cross with it, you know, as a tea like a cross. You also get the T-shirt, the wind, you know, the breeze, which goes into the raft moving slow like a creep talking about this. We're already in triple entendantia territory.

Bring it home. We're going five. We're going four. We're going. Where we're going? Cue my music, Kevin. Oh. It's time for Cole's special two-part conspiracy corner.

All right. So in this segment, I give Charles, one of my wildest, most outlandish theories about a line or part of a song. And he tells me if I'm full of shit or not. not. All right. So question number one, two interrelated questions. Is grip in the line I got the grip like the handle, a quadruple entendre. All right. Let me, for some context, let me read a couple lines around it. All right. Can we get some, can we get some sound effects in post? Kevarina? We'll do like a ding or an er. So give me each entendre and I'll do a yay or name. Okay, all right. So let me get some context. Here's the lines before and after.

How you're not fucking with cash. God gave you what you can handle. Gave you what you could handle. I got the grip like the handle. And I'm biking. I'm biking with me and my Daniel. Okay, so grip quadruple entendre. Number one, handlebar grips.

All right. That's a yay. That's it. That's a ding. That's a, okay. Got it. Okay.

I got the grip like the handle is a grip on his life. Tying back to the previous line God gave you what you can handle. So I got the grip. I got a grip of my life. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. I'm,

yeah, I'm not, I'm not gonna argue that one. I think, I think that can go. That's a safe. Yay. That's a dick.

Okay. Number three, recall the line. How you're not fucking with cash. I got the grip. A grip of money. Of course, obviously.

That's, that's an automatic. You are acting like these were out, outlandish. These are both three like solid. Is the fourth the one that I'm going to have to just. So how about recall the next line, I'm biking with me and my Daniel. I got the grip on the handle.

What do you grip in a sexual position with a Daniel? Does he have the grip on, you might put a, you know, a Homer Cockring on this? Yeah, it repeated for me one more time because I'm like, I'm trying to be very nice. Okay, I got the grip like the handle. I'm biking with me and my Daniel he's gripping something and then he talks about biking with him and a guy

Wait Cole are you saying that Daniel is a real man My Daniel means like my boy He's saying I'm biking with me and my boy Me and my boyfriend My Daniel All right so let me Okay let me give you the part two

This is like the real That was the better one I am so excited for what the worst one is. Well, it ties into this, the suspect fourth entendre in that we just talked about. This is not my theory. Well, I didn't get, I didn't make this theory up. It's, it's an internet thing. But does biking also mean by king, the bi-king, the bisexual king? We talking about bisexual kings on the pod now. Hell yeah. Let's turn the fuck up. Let's get disempty. Don, people need to chill. bro.

No. Like, all right. I love Frank Ocean. Frank Ocean is a genius. That is why I think that he knows just in terms of just like general coolness and non-corniness by King. I like is just. Yeah.

No. It don't, it don't hit the hair the way you want it. I think this is a song about. You know what I'm saying? Like, for example, like Chanel, I see it on both sides, like Chanel is, like, it is wild. Like, that is like a great rap verse to talk about sexuality. Like, it is just like, all right, cool. Like, he is spitting.

That is a genius. Frank Ocean walking into the studio and be like, hey, y'all, you know what? I'm really into biking. I'm also your biking. Hey! my man he would not do that Frank Ocean is like listening to this podcast

That's exactly what of it No I agree with you I don't it's clever And like I give the fans credit for like trying But that does seem too corny for Frank To like actually try to do that I also think that this is just because In terms of

R&B Black music R&B is something that is very very very very hyper or masculine, I think sometimes because Frank Ocean was definitely at the vanguard of being a young black performer announcing his queerness to the world, that sometimes the fan base reads into stuff where I'm just like, guys, like, Frank can be queer and every line does not have to be about that. Like, every line doesn't have to be about a specific relationship or moment or like, Frank is not Taylor Swift in that way. I don't think he's.

His lyrics are like, here's the secret code that you need to understand. Like, he's a complex songwriter, but not in that way. I'm going to take us to our next segment because it ties in perfectly with this sentiment. But before that, let's recap. First round, both you and I picked Chenow. Second round, we deviated a little bit. Can you remind listeners what you pick? I got biking.

And I have the way superior song. Slide. Feeling good. We have one more song to pick. But before that, let's throw it to a break. and we'll be back very, very soon. All right, we're back, and I'm going to hit y'all with a little bit of hot tea,

a crack rock take, if you will. This is the part in the show where I give Justin and my wonderful, wonderful co-host, Cole, one of my half-big takes, and they have to weigh in on it. Crack rock, crack-rock, crack, takes. And I'm going with one that I've always held close to my heart, but no one ever wanted to admit.

Guys, does Frank Ocean have any music? chemistry with Tyler the creator. They have a lot of songs together. A lot of Frank's biggest songs are also Tyler songs. And not once for this entire exercise, did I ever, was I ever like, yeah, I'm going to go with one of the Tyler Frank joins. And this is nothing against Tyler or Frank. It is more so I feel like we think that their chemistry is higher because they're

from the same collective. They have a lot of music together. I think they share a lot of sensibilities in terms of like aesthetic and what they're interested in talking about. Cole, do you think I'm out of my mind? This is probably your hottest take on the show ever. Really? You're going to get so much shit for this.

Okay, I'm just going to point you to two songs. One more than the other, but where this flower blooms on Flower Boy? I'm aware of it. By Tyler the Creator, featuring Frank Ocean is amazing. Frank does a perfect chorus for that song. And then you got one of Tyler's most. coveted long-lasting songs in She from Goblin featuring Frank. She from Goblin is a curse song.

That is like a, like that is a song we should have left in the past. But okay, but I will give you this. For the amount of the times that they have worked together, you would think there would be more kind of quote-a-quote classic tracks from them. That's what I'm saying. They have two. I can't take that away from you. The two that you mentioned, I'm just like, yes, absolutely.

Some people might be like, what about oldie? And I'm just like, don't bring up fucking oldie. stop it's 2023 but i'm saying like when we think of like the drake think of drake think of drake and the weekend or j z and conier or like duos that we know or even like a conier or a john legend like people that were like they've made a lot of music together and the music has been good but there's not as many as you would think what we'll ask justin away in justin is this a terrible take or am i cooking with a little bit of grease i don't think they have a classic i don't think they have a classic together. They have a couple okay

songs. Like even if you look at something like Mr. Lonely 911 like that sounds all right, right? But it's not a classic. Is there a single Frank and Tyler featuring song that people are like, yeah, man, this is my shit, General Populous? I would just say live,

she goes pretty hard. People go kind of crazy for that song. All right, all right. That was my hot take. I was just like, this will be lukewarm. I was surprised that you were. That was a great one. I actually liked that because it was, it's, because on the surface when he first said it. I was like, damn, that's pretty wild. But then you, yeah, you go through the list and it's maybe not as strong as you think given the stature of both artists. I get your point. So now it's time for our final songs. All right. Who wants to go first? Do you want to go first or should I be the honors? Let me hear what you got. So this one is one from my heart. Okay. Love it. I think the thing that I miss most about being a teenager is like having a lack of taste when I was like, Oh my gosh, every single song that I listen to is the best song of all time.

Like I wish I could go back to that version of myself. I was singing a dog shit music and I thought that I'd like discovered something like something that no one else had about the human condition. I missed those times. This song is not dog shit. It's just it was funny going back to a song that affected me so much back then. And now I'm like, this still is like a perfect song to me. But it's not where Frank would end up. I have to go with Accra in a girl.

Oh my God. I love this song. I don't like this song. You don't like it's fine. I don't like this song. You weren't out in the streets like that. You weren't out in the street. I think that this song and not not the long,

there's been a bunch of bullshit versions, but the song that I think. It's like under two minutes, right? No, the one that Frank uploaded himself, that's like a minute and a half, two minutes. It's like the short joint. That's the one I'm talking about. Okay.

The other song, there was one that was released by the songs producer. He actually said he had a fun story, Dre Knight on SoundCloud where he said, One summer night, Frank Ocean came by with Alicia Bella. I played him this track. I created years prior and he wrote what would become Accra and a girl on the spot. He recorded himself and I was happy about that because I was exhausted. When he was done with the verse of chorus, he played it for Tish Hyman and I. I looked at him and said, sounds good.

Tish looked at him, said, it sucks. I never saw Frank Ocean again, L.O. well. But what's crazy about the song? We talked about this in another episode. This song was supposed to be on the official nostalgia light album that Def Jam was going to drop. And it sounds like a song to me where I'm like, this song almost does a better job than any on nostalgia ultra proper at tying up the theme of what that song is, what the vibe of that project is. Because this song is dedicated to, one of Frank's cars that he drove. It has that feeling of a young person,

exactly what I was explaining. When you're young and you have like no taste and you're, he's singing about like putting a girl onto like Lil Wayne and being surprised. She's like, oh, you like Lil Wayne, I'm listening to Lil Wayne to UGK, you listen to you too. I'm like, Frank, a bunch of motherfuckas

listen to you too. But it's delivered with like such this beautiful, sense of sentiment. He believes it, yeah, for sure. And he believes it. He is selling this. And this is a song that you write in your early 20s. Yeah.

And it's also, it has that thing that I like most in Frank Ocean songs where I'm going to talk about a song very, very soon that is so sparse. Frank actually, to me, sometimes is at his best. When he's just over a piano melody or a string melody, a lot of times there's not really there's not really a drum pattern there's no drums anywhere. I remember the the feeling when blonde an endless came out, a bunch of motherfuckers are like

where's the drums? And over time I've like I've softened to that take being like sometimes I just want Frank Ocean like singing in a falsetto and believing that the emotion that he's feeling is the most important emotion that has ever been

expressed by human society. I think one of his most beautiful lyrics is I wrote a letter to the sky saying maybe one day you'll get to kiss me. I was just like, the way he says it, it sounds corny reading it. But the way he sings it and sells it to you as a listener, it just did something to me when I was young and I'm going to allow myself one nostalgia pick. It has to be this one. So Cole, I know that you can get into the Acro bag. I know you have the corny R&B song bag in you. Well, okay, I'm not going to shit on your pick. It's not my personal favorite. I don't think it stands up as a great song, objectively speaking, but it does showcase what you

pointed out brilliantly in maybe the Channel Orange episode, which is Frank as a songwriter trying to write for other people often was hard for him because what he was writing, only he could sell. Yeah. So it doesn't surprise me that antidote that you gave saying that this person said this song sucked because if he's trying to write it for someone else and they're like, I'm not taking this song. What are you talking about on this song? But when you listen Frank's version, you believe it. So it's not for me, but I appreciate the vulnerability.

I appreciate the sentiment. So I'm not going to shit on it. I'm going to, okay, can I go to my pick? You done with the... Yeah, yeah. Go to your bed. Okay. Okay, so, well, let me just, just name some songs that I was really debating.

So shout out to provider. Brilliant song. Shout out to Lens. Shout out to Dear April. Lens almost made it, bro. Lens was the one I almost made it, but I was just like, Oh, man, I'm the only person in the world who like Lens. No, that's a sneaky, great song.

I think it may be because it came out after these really, really great songs that it kind of felt like the lesser than the moment. It came after Chanel. It got a little, Lens got a little bit lost. I would say even like in my room, which was like later, I love in my room, got a little loss in the show. Yeah, yeah. So, Dear April, beautiful song.

Okay, Orion, for anyone that has not listened to Orion, just go to YouTube and listen to it. It is about his brother, his little brother, written well, you know, well before his brother passed away, which was just a few years ago. Rest and peace. A beautiful, beautiful dedication to his little brother. It's really hard to listen to knowing what would happen to him. But just knowing that Frank was so sweet to him back then before anything happened, didn't write the song after his passing, wrote it 10, 10. 10 12 years ago. It's just, it's such a beautiful song. It does evoke, it does like, it's not usually the kind of song that I would like, but just the sentiment of it is so sweet.

I just had to shot that out. There's a song called Blue Whale, everyone should go listen to. It's produced by Farrell and Frank is rapping, but it's in 2012. Really interesting listen, but I have to go with this brilliant song that I really just rediscovered hours before taping this. I had heard it like when, maybe when I was doing the Frank season as I was kind of like just listen to everything and I forgot about it. I'm so glad I came upon it again today. I'm going with wise man. So wise man for people that don't know. Interesting backstory. Came out in 2015. It's post-channel orange but pre-blonde, I believe. And it was written to use in Quintarantorantino's Django Unchained. Quinn Tarantino said he loved the song, couldn't find a scene for it. And then he said, quote,

I could have thrown it in quickly just to have it, but that's not why he wrote it and not his intention, so I didn't want to cheapen his effort. The song is fantastic, and when Frank decides to unleash it on the public, then they'll realize it then. So Frank does release this independently on his Tumblr. It is such a fucking brilliant song.

I haven't really got to dive into the lyrics, but it's very, like, you can tell it's very heady. There's a lot of, like, conceptual stuff going on. But it's like, it's such, So it reminded me of this quote by John Lennon. John Lennon said, I'm an artist,

and if you give me a tuba, I'll bring you something out of it, meaning I can make something out of nothing. You can give me fucking anything in the world, and I'll make you something great out of it. I'm an artist, that's what I do. If you listen to this song, Wise Man,

it's like a single electric guitar for most of the song, and it's just plucking these single notes back and forth. Like the simplest, the simplest, it's like you can barely even hear chord It's just like single notes. And then Frank builds this like entire world around this bare minimum musical texture without barely any harmony.

And then it explodes into these these choruses, which like you get these like beautiful swelling strings. And then he says this this line repeats over and over. He says, I bet your mother would be proud of you. And he sings in in this huge falsetto voice. And it's just one of those lines where it's like it's not the clever Frank Ocean line, but it's like one of those lines. that's surrounded by a really abstract and heady lyrics. And then you get the one that everyone is going to feel. I bet your mother would be proud of you.

It's just such a beautiful moment in the song. And then you get to the bridge. It is one of the most beautiful moments in a Frank Ocean song across his entire discography of this bridge. If we can play just a little bit of it here, just listen how beautiful this is. Just absolutely To survive and thrive in the jungle

Maybe hearts were made to pump blood Maybe lungs were made from flood Just absolutely gorgeous, right? He's singing this falsetto voice Beautiful chords behind him I gave you this song Did you get to listen to it before we recorded? I'm curious to know your thoughts

Are you in love with it as much as I am? This is one of those songs where I was instantly like, I can understand why Cole likes this. Like, this scratches every one of his bitches. And I like the middle part of this. I do. I like the middle part of this. The wise man closes mouth. Madman closes fifth.

This whole intro part, that part. That's weird. It's not great. Like, it is very, very, very movie soundtrack type thing. where it's just like this is the tight like that's the bit that you would like play in like a trailer and you're like yo frank ocean's on this trailer oh my god jamey fox is in this movie like i i don't hate this song i don't it just does feel very movie soundtracky to me in a way that i'm like okay all right well this is this is a song this is a song okay last thing on it it's really cool because we didn't get much music between channel orange and blonde or endless too, right?

Like, Frank just kind of went silent. I think maybe he did some features, but for the most part, he wasn't like releasing singles and stuff. So it's really cool to listen to it as one of the rare songs that we know that was written in between that period because it showcases the weirdness and the kind of abstraction of blonde in terms of the music instruments and the instrumentation that he chooses, very sparse, very weird, atypical choices. And then, but lyrically, it's very channel orange.

And it's like, you know, that that feels, the lyrics feel more of Frank Ocean of Channel Orange than they do a blonde. Very conceptual, you know. That is a great point. You know what this reminds. This reminds me of like a B-side to like no church in the wild in terms of like. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah.

That point in Frank's career where he's writing epic stories instead of building epic songs, if that makes any sense. Right. Yeah. Where it's like the stuff that makes blonde epic isn't the grandiose. the nature of the lyrics a lot of times. It is the entire package. That is a great point of like understanding the song now. Like I have more appreciation for it now.

Yeah. If anyone hasn't heard this song, go listen to it. It's really good. So that's it. I think we're done. Are we done with the nominations? You are. You picked wise man.

I pick Accura inner girl. You have the first pick. What are you going with? Oh, man, dude. This is really hard because I came into this episode not knowing which you usually have like a good idea like okay I'm leaning towards this song we'll talk it out see if I still feel the same way at the end of the episode I came in here equally convinced about biking and chanelle and you know what do okay see this is where the strategy comes in because I know you love

chanelle too but I also know you like slide it feels like chenelle needs to go on there but i want but biking needs to go on there too so i do i just claim i'm i'm going to pick chenelle if you don't pick chenelle like it's fine like i feel the strong the most strongly about Chanel. That was why I went with like two of my like, these are just my jams. Because I'm like, if we're doing a Lucy's thing, like we can be like wink wink cute about it. But Chanel is one of those choices. And if I'm being objective, bro, biking is also one of the ones. Like even if it's not for me, I think a lot of people love it for good reasons. I'm just an asshole. I think leaving this with Chanel and biking is way better than leaving this with Chanel and Slime.

lied. How do you feel about that? Yeah. Okay. Because, yeah, if I pick Chanel, then you're forced to take Slat. I don't want that to happen. So I'm picking biking. Final answer. I'll pick Chanel. I'm feeling good about that. All right. Because here's the thing. I can, I will, I will tolerate

an argument with you about biking. Like, I will talk, like, at our Royal Rumble, if you want to put it up against like some nostalgia ultra songs, like some Channel Orange songs, we can have that conversation. We can, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Slide, I'm like, it's still, to your point. It's only so far that it can get as a Calvin-Hara song.

It's only going to get so far. All right, guys, I pick Chanel. Cole, you picked biking? That's not all we have today. We have to talk about endless. But before we talk about endless, we got to go to a little ad break. We'll be back very soon.

All right, welcome back to this special double episode of Last Song Standing. Cole, let's jump right into it. How do we talk about endless? That's a good question. It's hard to wrap your head around Endless. I have a better sense of it returning to it than I did probably I've ever had. I studied the concept.

I get more of the album, whether it was going for, what the art piece was going for. I have more of a respect for it than I ever have, actually. But just in the nature, we probably should just get into like how it was released. Because I feel like because Blonde came out the next day, Endless has always been like the step sister, or the red-headed stepchild or whatever that phrase is, to blonde, part of that was Frank's fault in terms of how he released it. I mean, part of it is also,

it seemed like a middle finger at a death jam, even if I don't know if that's what it was. But if we go back to 2015, essentially that this project, when it drops, I remember it being hysteria because it's like, oh my gosh, Frank is back. and then that hysteria almost cooling in real time

because Endless is a very, is a very vibe heavy record. And the first time most people were listening to it, you're watching it on Apple music. Frank had made this deal. And he's building this staircase in real time. And it is part visual album art piece almost. Yeah.

And what we learn is he ends up doing. a New York Times interview with John Caramonica very, very quickly because blonde obviously comes out and to your point, endless almost overnight becomes the right-headed stepchild because A, if you wanted to listen to

the album, it's not like you could just go on the DSPs and just listen to Endless. You had to watch the whole video. Yeah. And then throughout the years, if you wanted to listen to Endless legally, you had to buy it from Frank in vinyals or different

packages. I listen to vinyl today through less legal means, but that is also what makes it's such a hard record to wrap your head around because he releases it essentially as the last project through his death jam deal. And he had said in this New York Times interview that he had spent a couple years at this point trying to buy back all of his masters, trying to buy his way out of this deal. And when Blonde comes out, blonde almost overnight becomes the, oh, no, this is the album that he really wanted to make. This is his first independent album. This is the real Frank Ocean. And endless almost recedes in the popular consciousness was all of that theoretical. Yeah, that's how it played out. It was, you know, that he called it a chess, a seven-year chess match with Def Jam.

It's exactly almost 45 minutes for, it's 45 minutes and 52 seconds long. 45 minutes is usually the standard length to fulfill a full length project in a record contract so it's like he made it bare minimum in terms of project length so yeah I mean it's and it almost feels like I'm sure he's proud of it but it is there is something like fuck you about

handing Def Jam it's very clever in terms of like I'm going to give the major label like an art piece to release and I'm going to release the one that they want. Like it's such a... It's hard to listen to. It's hard to listen to it. Like if I'm going to listen to Endless,

either I'm watching the whole thing or I am listening to people who have uploaded it on like SoundCloud. Yeah. And so I think, you know, that's... That's definitely like the biggest hurdle, I think, for Endless's legacy, where you, you know, Frank Ocean cult following,

you know, the hard, hardcore fans. I know, They like Endless. They love, some of them love Endless, but you're talking to nine times, nine out of 10 Frank Ocean fans probably listen to Endless, what,

one or two times, maybe? I might listen to it once every couple years. Like I'm like, oh, endless exists and I listen to it. And then it's not the one that I go back to ever. It's just,

and it's not realistic, really. It's like, it's, it is hard. There is an obstacle, you know, an objective kind of obstacle to listening to this project,

you know, um, but, But that almost gave me more respect for the project when I was like revisiting it because it is such a fuck you, but it also is like Frank solidifying himself as a bona fide artist, essentially making a score to his own film. You know, I think a lot, my perception of and even experience of the record really changed when I just allowed it to be what it was. And I wasn't coming in with the expectations of like song, song, song, song, song, chorus. Give me, you know, if you wipe away those expectations. If you stop comparing it to block.

And you just allow to exist as it was meant to exist. It's really enjoyable. It's, you know, you say I don't like vibe music, which is usually true. But this is definitely a piece you can throw on to just create an atmosphere, which seemed purposeful. And I think because Frank Ocean is a musician, and we think of them that way, I think we expect the music to be the main centerpiece of anything that it releases with music in it. I'm sure in his head, the music is equally or less important than the visuals. The visuals, I think, are equally important to Endless as a project. And the concept of what the visuals mean, I think is endless.

I think the core of Endless is the visual component of it, not so much the music. The music is the ambient texture around this visual concept that he was going for. So before we pick the song off Endless that we're taking into the Royal Rumble, Can you like walk me through the video staircase and what you think it maybe means to this album and just the greater thing that Frank was trying to say about endless in the Frank Ocean project? Yeah, I'm kind of, you know, I don't have a as good of a grip conceptually as maybe as other projects, but I do think I have some of the basic. So people forget that when he originally started streaming this pin building a staircase, it was actually. on his website first and it was 140 hours long literally like they streamed the entire process what we see in the 45 minute version obviously is is very truncated but so like that's the

piece the collaborator are um what's his name tom sacks said that is actually endless is the 140 hour life they call it a life stream not a live stream a life stream um so the idea i think is doing something with your hands, doing something difficult, and contrasting that with modern technology. So Tom Sacks is who built the big boombox piece that you see in the background of Endless, and he gave an interview where he gave some insights on the concept that really opened it up for me. He said, quote, we're living in an age of non-hand-made things. The iPhone is the best made thing there is, but there's no evidence of a human being being involved with it. Frank's music, which is very personal and literally has his voice,

is the same way that all musicians have their voice. It simply takes time. And when you see the video, you see him building a stairway to heaven in real time. And so it's kind of a resistance to like this, you know, fast consuming culture. It's like the idea of doing something difficult that's going to take you a very long time to do. and that being meaningful, and that's how you kind of build meaning. And also the idea of like a life stream building your way up to heaven. That's essentially you can call everyone's life is an attempt to build a staircase to heaven, right?

So I think that's part of it. And he also said the spiral staircase is an endless column. And it's a direct reference to a Roman sculptor named Constantine Brancousie, I think is what his name is. He has a piece called the endless column. which is a 98-foot sculpture that goes up into the sky that supposedly symbolizes infinity. But I think, okay, so here's where I think the key to the project lies. So we see for like 40 minutes, Frank, building this staircase. And the climactic moment of the film should be him climbing the staircase, right?

If you remember, he goes to climb the staircase and the music really starts to get intense. And it shows him climbing, climbing, climbing, and it cuts. before he gets to the top. And then it just shows him staircase is gone and it shows him starting to clean up. Which is the,

that's the entire project to me. It's not about the thing that you make. It's, it's the process that you did to make it, which is a metaphor for life, which is like, it's not the destination. It's the journey.

It's, it's, you know, pushing the proverbial rock up the hill. It's about the process. And it's about things that we create. The process of making art is endless. And that's probably why he's like,

I don't want this out in the world in like any real way. Like I want endless to be a project that is continuously happening is the best reading I could give of the weirdness. And then it makes sense that then the project ends with not his own song, but a song called Device Control by Wolfgang Tillman's. And it's all about technology. It ends with saying your life can be stream in endless communication. We will all show interest in everybody's life. Your life can be streamed.

life, your life can be streamed, life, life. So the idea is like pretty central there, pretty obvious there. And it's this contrast between the new world of technology that we're living in and trying to acclimate to, but also preserving doing difficult things and committing ourselves to long-term kind of projects, which is again a metaphor for just like life in general. So hopefully that wasn't too long, but that's the central concept. No, man, you broke that down beautifully, Cole. I have been dissected, all right.

Oh, sit. All right, all right. Okay. As y'all know, we usually. I actually have a nominations portion of the show where Cole and I each nominate three songs from a project before choosing our last song standing. We didn't think that was necessary for Endless. So we're doing this sudden death style. Cole and I are going to pick our last song standing from Endless straight away with no nominations.

And that means who picks first is extra important. Cole, let's do a sudden death extra quiz kids one question to rule them all. Let's get in, get out. What's your question? How does the beginning of Endless connect? to the end of Frank's previous album Channel Orange. Think about it. Because I know you know it,

but maybe you just haven't put it together yet. No, it's 6 p.m. Eastern. Like, that's a level of, like, if you ask me at 8 a.m, I'd be like, I have a good answer. I don't. You win this round. What is it?

Channel Orange ends with the skit end, which is a skit inside a car where it's based off the ATL scene. Yes. In which Nunu tells Rashad that she likes him. in that scene in the movie that he's recreating on the end of Channel Orange, what song

is being played in the car? Do you remember? At your best, you are loved by Aaliyah. Leah's version, which starts endless. Wait, that's cheating. It's technically the second song even though the first song is in a song, really. It's not a song, it's an intro. It's like

one, a voice saying one one's one. No, the connection is definitely there. I think I have a good one, but you'll probably know this. But you might not because I don't know if he was out in these streets like that. All right. What's the first name of the person who accidentally leaked the concept of the spiral staircase? Oh, shit.

Okay, I don't know because I didn't even know it got leaked. Yeah. So the story on March 18, 2016, Mishi tweeted that a dude in a bar revealed that he was teaching Frank how to build a spiral staircase. This was before the album ever comes out. Complex ends up interviewing her because she quote tweets it. believe the day of it'd be like, yo, I can't believe I was right. So for a while, there was just this tweet out there in the world being like, yo, why spring building a staircase for his

new album? Yeah, that's really good. Because yeah, he was being extra secretive about everything at this time when you're reading about it because he didn't want Def Jam to know all the stuff and blah, blah, blah. So that's a good one. So since we tied, you know what, gentlemen, I'll let you go first because you let me get Chanel. You let me get Chanel. Go first, Cole. What's your endless pick? Okay, so there's a lot of great songs. Rushes, Wither, Unity, Alabama. These are all for endless.

It's hard. I mean, this exercise is so hard, just plucking a song out of this 45-minute, essentially one piece that blends together. It's a flawed exercise. Let me just say that. There's some beautiful moments on endless, but I feel like they're supposed to be beautiful moments

within a large piece, not just plucked out. So let me just say that. Charles, I'm going to need your help on this. I'm debating between two songs. At Your Best, you are a love, which is a cover. But it's fucking beautiful, and it's the song that I want to hear on this album the most, if you're just going to pluck a song out of it. Its hindrance is, though, it's a cover.

Second song is Higgs. I love Higgs. It's beautiful, beautiful acoustic guitar part, beautiful lyrics. just a beautiful song. My heart says, I kind of want to pick out your best you are love. I'd be happy to pick Higgs,

but would it be lame if I picked at your best year or love? Is that just... Here's the thing, dude. No. Because at your best you are love is like the only logical pick to me. Like that is the only one

that I have on my board in terms of like, it is so clearly not only the best song off this. I know it is in Isley Brothers cover that Aaliyah, that Alia popularized and is probably the one that

Frank fell in love with because he devotes this song to Elia. It is, this is one of the most beautiful covers I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, yeah. I almost want to cry each and every time and I'm a big, like, can someone's cover be their best song?

And I would say like nine times out of 10, the answer is no. But at your best you are love is like, is just so important to who Frank is. It shows you literally everything that he's so phenomenal at. I wouldn't, like, I would not judge you if you pick the song. This song is so good. So you, but you're not picking it?

Oh, I mean, you get first picks. This was the, I'm between at your best you are love and slide. And slide to me is like a cool song, but it's like, it's no at your best you are love. How about we both talk about at your best you are love. and you could talk about Higgs. Yeah. Okay. So you,

I mean, you just laid out out your best of your love. I only in considering it, one, because it's so conceptually, how I laid out, how it connects to Frank and this movie and to Channel Orange.

It's like, it feels more than a cover to me. And you can hear that in his performance of it. Shout out to Moon River, which is a single that I didn't mention before, but holy shit, dude.

Moon River is so good, dude. Yeah. Moon River is fucking beautiful, dude. Like, here's the other part about At Your Best Year of Love? For me personally, it features Johnny Greenwood doing the strings, which is from the radiohead guitarist, probably my favorite modern musician of all time, and James Blake is playing synthesizer. James Blake, one of my favorite artists, working artists today. Don't tell Azalea Banks that. So it's like that, like all those combined,

I'm just like, oh my God, how do we, how does, I'm going to go strategy here. I'm going to just go ahead and say I'm going to pick Higgs because that leaves a door open for it, on someone's list that we can take into the finale. And I love Higgs. I think Higgs is very beautiful and I think it represents endless very well. Do I think I has a chance in the finale? Probably not. But I also like it.

You revealed your hand and slide. And I just, it can't be slide, dude. So I'm picking Higgs. What is it about Higgs, though, that got even into the conference? because Higgs isn't even in the conversation. Not that it's a bad song, but like,

it's not at your, I don't feel about it the way I feel about. It's, I mean, there's a lot of songs that are unlisted to do similar things to Higgs, where it starts out very subdued and then slowly over time, he kind of,

you know, the instrumentation doesn't change because a lot of these songs are just one piano or one guitar throughout the whole thing. But then he starts to either sing louder or starting to stack layers of vocals on top of himself. And that's where, you know, but it's all kind of reverbed and washy and stuff.

stuff. So, you know, like a lot of the best songs on here, he starts out very subdued, but then towards the end of the song, which might be excluding at your best, you or love, I think has probably the most beautiful moment on endless, where he opens up and he says, I'll be back before the street lights were on before the daylight's gone. I was spoiled by lavish thoughts. They don't compare. No, not at all. And this has been the past. I might not know what to do with all of what you've showed, what you give. My words can't hold and if acts of God break us apart, at least we did ours. Woo!

Then the outro, turn back, turn back, turn back, turn back if you've never been in love. And it's just, it's, I didn't even realize what he was singing until I saw the vocals on, or the lyrics on the page, and I was like, oh, that's so beautiful and so frank in terms of just fondly remembering a love from the past and just like appreciating it, savoring it, honoring it. it's just it's just a beautiful moment you know nothing crazy conceptual nothing crazy musical but that's kind of what endless is and i think it represents endless very well so i'm happy to pick higgs i think you picked higgs i picked at your best your love i have to ask this because i did not realize that this was such a fan favorite until i like went back to endless i was looking it up

why not whither like this is this that's a song that i just did not realize like real frank heads are like not wither it's if you listen to wither and a higgs back to back which i did because i that's i kind of whittled it down to higgs rushes and whither they're very similar um in structure and sentiment and even yeah like he does the thing where he starts subdued and gets higher towards the end so they're kind of sister songs in my mind i probably would have been happy picking wither i think personally i just love the the core progression of higgs most uh it's beautiful it's beautiful sad kind of melancholy descending line so it might just be personal preference there

but I think they express similar sentiments I think they get at the same emotion so I get why Wither would be a fan favorite but I think Higgs is a little more it touches me just a little bit more deeper it's a little more clear to me for some reason and that when I read the lyrics of Higgs I was just like oh okay I'm sold hell yeah

so we have our four that were taken into the Royal Rumble biking, Chanel, Higgs, and at your best of your love. I'm feeling really solid now. I was feeling like, all right, we don't have enough of the mix. We have a cover in here. You know, biking and Chanel don't sound the same at all. Higgs doesn't sound the same as any of them.

How are you feeling now? Yeah, and the last thing about at your best of your love, it's not like Frank just randomly does covers. He's done covers throughout his whole. We know him first from nostalgia Ultra, which has a ton of covers on it. So it's like it feels it feels right to have a cover and specifically a Frank Ocean best song kind of discography, right? Like it feels like it represents it.

I couldn't agree more because also his covers to your point tell you so much about who he is as a person where you're just like, of course like Alia's cover of this song explains so much of his artistry and what he finds important because Alia is very much a minimalist R&B singer where. she's not trying to be like Whitney or Diana or anyone. The joy of listening to Aaliyah is the entire package and almost the understated quality of it. So I like that he opens up the next phase of his career, a phase that I do take with someone creating full packages by honoring Aaliyah. I think that that is like a beautiful sentiment. And if somebody was just like, that's the best Frank Ocean song, I wouldn't argue with them because I'm just like emotionally. I totally understand. For the artist that is trying to channel emotions in his music,

that's a pretty damn good representation that song. Why don't you thank everybody who makes this podcast possible? And then we can reveal, people already know, what is going to be the best? Like, oh my God. At least the episode I'm most excited.

Yeah. Okay. So first, you guys know now, hit the Spotify episode page. You can cast your vote. Hit us up on social media at Dysect Podcast and at Charles X.

Holmes. but next week is what we've been building to the entire season. Oh, yeah. Help. We're doing blonde. Blond with, we're doing B-O-L-N-D. We're doing B-O-L-N-D-E. Did you know this?

Did you know the spelling, the duality? Charles, I cannot wait to break this album down to you. I got two versions. But yeah, thanks to executive producer, Justin Sales. Thanks to Kevin Puler for the audio production. And thank you to be your craft. for the theme music. Hell yeah.

All right, guys, y'all know what time it is if y'all are still around. This is our cultural exchange. I'm very, very, very excited. Cole, why don't we start off with you? You gave me another classical joints that are, that's destroying the streets. What did you listen to? I gave you, are you going to talk about different trains? We are talking about different trains.

All right, yeah. That I, once again, was bowled over by. It was, really? Oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, this is my vibe. Like, this is my jam. I, my opinion on it, like, what coming in here, I didn't have, like, all right, this is what I want to say about this song. I just wanted you to give me, like, the quick elevator pitch because I went into this blind.

I'm just like, let me just listen to it. And immediately, I just wanted to Wikipedia. I was just like, what is everything about this song? I need to know the backstory. But I wanted to give you the honors. Like, why did you pick this song? and did you think that I would like like it this much? Well, I gave it to you because it's a it's challenging but it's also I feel like has very

accessible moments. It especially starts out I think pretty interesting and accessible and then it kind of goes as the story of this of a of the piece kind of moves into the middle section. It gets more dark and dissonant and then it comes out the other side kind of happier I guess. I don't know. I think it's just it's a good balance between the challenging aspects of minimalism. but also the conceptual possibilities in minimalism, which you don't think minimalist music could have many conceptual possibilities

just because it's minimal and it's very distinct. But the way that this piece, different trains by Steve Reich, is a concept. It tells a story as samples of people that live through World War II, and he's kind of telling the story of World War II through this music, and he's mimicking train sounds with the instruments. It was probably the samples that did it for me,

even though I went in blind, I was, I was like, this has to do with displacement or some form of tragedy. There's something that is like happening in this music. I was, and I wasn't like just scaring at the screen.

Like I put it on and I was like walking around and just kind of like vibing to it. Right. And it did have that feeling of being on a train going on this journey. The ups and the twistings and turns. I thought this is beautiful, man. Great job.

Awesome. You're killing it. I think you're officially a fan. of minimalism. Yeah. So now it's time. Before we talk about Jeremiah, I'm just going to give you your assignment now. We're going,

you love minimalism. This again, my syllabus was 20th century classical music, so we got to get to one of my favorite composers. Christoph Penderke. Okay, I like the name already.

He's a Polish composer lived, you know, 1933 to 2020, so perfectly situated in the 20th century. This piece I'm going to give you, is, I would say, challenging for sure.

Okay. It's atonal. It's called Therenity to the victims of Hiroshima. May or may not have been inspired by Oppenheimer, which is the big craze now, but it's dedicated to the victims of Hiroshima. It's a piece for 52 string players, like this huge string ensemble. It's atonal. A big thing that Panderecki does is, like, find different ways to hear traditional instruments

to make them sound new. So experiments with all these. different techniques of playing the instrument. You're going to hear people banging on their cellos with their bows. You're going to hear all types of sounds you've never heard before produced by a string orchestra. Penerecki is hugely influential. His music is used in Stanley Kubrick, David Lynch, Martin Scorsese, big influence on Johnny Greenwood. So the only request that I have for you, this is only a nine-minute piece.

I need you to listen with headphones on, and all you have to do is listen. Just give me that nine minutes, put the headphones on, and just listen. You're going to think it's going to sound dissonant, and you're going to think like scary movie. Try your best to push that away and just be neutral and just let the piece happen to you. That's all I'll say. Yeah, I got you, Cole. I'm locked in. All right.

Now, we're continuing my PBR and B syllabus, because this, is an entire subgenre of music that you never listen to Cole. So first, I need to know, what does you think of Jeremiah late night? I'm re-listened to it. I was just like, dog, I can't believe I gave this to Cole. He's going to hate this shit. I love it, but I was like, he's going to hate it. I had a journey with this.

I put it on. I hear the first track number two, which is the first song. And it sounds like an R. Kelly imitation to me. And then it has like the, Go! And then it has, okay, then it has a, the first line, the first line that I hear him say is, Rosa so wet, get Rosa a coaster, that booty so soft, just like my sofa. Bowl, like, like, come on.

Bar, bar, let's go. Okay, then it goes to, you know, all the time, which is, I guess, the hit on this, this project, but super cringe lyrics. The chorus, I like the sound in the chorus. Are you, are you talking about all the time? Yeah, cringe-ass lyrics. Like, maybe sex music is just not my thing. outside. Yo, Justin get him. You wasn't outside, bro. Hold on. Just hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. But then I kept listening. I get to, ah, shit, with Fabulous. I don't, not a big fan of Fabulous or even his verse on there. But the beat is crazy. That beat's super interesting. Then we get to all of me. Again, super interesting beat and really unpredictable melodies. And then by the time I got to 773 love, I'm kind of viping, dude. I'm kind of into it.

I kind of digging it. Really? Because it's like, it started off a little too traditional for me. But then it got kind of weird and unpredictable. And I was like, okay, I get how this is like alternative. Because at first I was like, why is this any different? And then it started to get weirder and I started to appreciate it a little bit more. So definitely better than party next door in my mind.

So, you know, it's okay. I'm proud of you, Cole. Like look at your horathing. Look at your horizons expanding. How are you feeling, Justin? Because this is mere and dear to your heart. I thought that this was going to be the one that he, you know, seated some ground on.

So I'm very happy to hear it. This is like legitimately, I say this without any exaggeration. Late nights with Jeremiah, the mixtape, the one that Cole listened to, is in my top 30 albums ever. I say that like very confidently, depending on the day, it could be even higher.

Wow. Holy shit. This is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm talking about. Talk that shit. You know what? And this isn't part of the syllabus because I'm not part of that. But did you enjoy Jeremiah's voice?

At times. I thought at times it was a little annoying. There's certain things he does with it that I'm just like not into it. When it gets like super traditional R&B, I was just like, just not my style. But he does, I don't know. If it was all songs like that first song, I probably would have hated the project. But it definitely got interesting. You know why I'm more excited.

to hear talk about late nights of jereby. Olivia the intern. Olivia the intern, are you there? Yes, I am. Hello. All right, sorry for calling you Olivia the intern, but I think it's like cool. You know what I'm saying? You only will have this distinction for a while longer.

Olivia the intern. What was your thoughts on this, this album? So I listened to this while walking for the first time. And the first like four songs I enjoyed in like an ironic sense. I knew that was coming. And then the more I listened to it, I judge whether I like something based on whether the artist

is like self-aware. And I think I realized he was self-aware when I got to like knock in. And I was like, I think my generation would really enjoy this because it's just really weird and especially like feel the bass. I already told you this.

It reminded me of like a Taya Cruz song but way more inappropriate. This is so disrespectful. I love this. It's way better too. She's shitting on you in the like the nicest way, but she's sitting on you. I know. I did really enjoy it.

And then the second test came when I put it on in the car with my sister and my friend when we were going to a bar. And it was after listening to Dochi. And I put this on, snuck it in. And they really enjoyed it. I put on Rosa Acosta, which they did like. Hell! The kids are all right, Cole. Hold on.

The kids are all right. Did they like it ironically? Did they like it ironically, though? No, I think they actually really liked it. Hell yeah. That's the power of Jeremiah. That's the power of P.B. Cole. Olivia, the intern, thank you so much.

I was ready to just feel so old. Like, I still do. But I'm like, if we have a war, I think the children will save us. I hope the children are fine. But Olivia, the intern, thank you so much. Of course. Now it is time for the album that I didn't want to give you first. And is like an album slash mixtape that like I have curdled on a little bit in terms of like my fandom of it.

But it is probably in the Mount Rushmore. We got to go House of Balloons the weekend. Like we got to go House of the Balloons. Justin, is it unfair? Like I feel like this is like it's not the one I want. want to give him, but it's just kind of like required reading. It's the formative text of the genre, right? Because when this, the whole reason this term came out is because of the proximity

between the PBR and B term because of the proximity between nostalgia ultra and house of balloons because white people that usually listen to indie rock were hearing the stuff and they were enjoying it. It's like, we, this, this must, these two totally different things must be the same exact things because I enjoy them both. Dog, he's sampling black people listen to Beach House? Yeah. What the fuck?

Yeah, that was it too. There's a couple samples on there that are very, like, baity for the type of person who would use the term PBRNB, ironically or unironically. You've listened to Weekend albums before, right, Cole? Yeah, for the most part, I want to say I've definitely listened to House of Balloons, but I can't. The whole trilogy gets, like, washed, so I'm definitely excited to re-listen to it. Listen to the original version. He put the original version up last year. Original version, original mix.

You got to hear this. Yeah, got to hear it raw. Freshman Charles in high school was just like viving. This is the debut, right? This is the start of it all, Cole. Let's go. The BBRB syllabus is going great. With that, guys, we will see y'all next week.