Dissect - J.I.D. dissects 'God Does Like Ugly' track by track

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

J.I.D. and Dissect's Cole Cuchna to break down his Grammy-nominated album God Does Like Ugly. 00:00 Cold Open / Intro 01:45 Album Title Breakdown 05:35 "YouUgly" Breakdown 17:23 "Glory" Breakdown 25:29 "Wrk" Breakdown 31:00 "Community" Breakdown 41:22 "Gz" Breakdown 46:39 Melodic Section of "GDLU" 51:03 "On McAfee" Breakdown 54:51 "Of Blue" Breakdown 01:00:50 "K-Word" Breakdown 01:04:05 What's the message of GLDU? 01:05:18 JID Says Next Project his BEST - Host: Cole Cuchna Guest: J.I.D. Editor: Kevin Pooler Engineer: Jon Jones Producer: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, then I got to ask you about the Fiminacci line. Was it intentional that five, two, and three are Fibonacci numbers, but in the wrong order? What's the name? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did it back. I did it back. If you listen to my music, I flip stuff all the time. I always say it one way and I'll say it back on. Carl Lewis, Lewis and Clark, yeah, yeah.

So with the Fibonacci, I was like, somebody's going to catch this. Somebody knows it's the golden rule or something like that. I always messed up. The golden mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone out there. It's intentional. I know. That's what I'm saying.

I'm such a jittery person as you probably think, but the fact that you caught little stuff like that, it just means like I'm doing it right. This episode of Dysect is presented by Amazon Prime. The holidays hit fast. One moment you're planning, the next, everything's out of sync. Luckily, Prime helps you catch the rhythm with fast, free delivery that gets it there just in time. Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last

minute and it just can't wait. Hosting essentials or the gift that hits the right note, it's a lot. on Prime. Head to Amazon.com slash Prime to shop now. Welcome everyone to a special episode of Dysect. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. Today, we're a very honored to have JID in the building to dissect his brand new Grammy nominated album God Does Like Ugly.

Jid, thanks for being on Dysect. Thanks for having me, bro. Yeah, yeah. Congratulations on the Grammy nod. How did it feel? It was cool. Just that is like actually my, you know what I'm saying? My nomination, the most of like other projects I've been involved in.

So it's a blessed feeling, you know what I'm saying? Having like a group of your peers say this is what you guys need to listen to or whatever the case may be. Okay, so I want to get into as much as the album as we can, I always like to start with the album title. I know there's a story about your grandma, the origin of the title. So maybe for those that haven't heard that yet, you can relay that story. but I'm also interested about how this kind of off-the-cuff thing that she said to you developed into what feels like the thematic framework of the entire album. Yeah. So initially, my grandmother don't know what, I don't know exactly what the occurrence was going on in the world, but I just remember her saying, if God's letting that happen, he got most like ugly or something like that, some in that regard.

And it just stuck with me, you know what I'm saying? because I'm used to hearing the term God doesn't, you know what I'm saying? So just her being creative enough to just flip that on his head and it kind of sent me for a loop this was around 2019 before she passed and it stuck with me all those years

just working on the music and trying to find something around that that just felt authentic to the title because the title wasn't going to change. All the music, even in the creation of it, it's not the album that I, it didn't come together all the way I thought it did. I had a lot of different samples and stuff that didn't get cleared and just,

but it worked out. It turned out to be like a project that I love. That's the only reason I put it out is because I like it. I wasn't basing it enough opinions of anybody for the most part besides my team and stuff like that. But I'm sorry. You know a show that everybody got. You try to get into LA show. That's actually

Aftall too. That's hilarious enough. Just more selfishly like saying, okay, this is what I think the wave is and this is how I feel about the music. And I'm not even sure

like people would be, it's an ugly project. It was meant to be like a little uncomfortable in some spaces. Yeah, there's a lot, I mean, just as compared to your last work

and Forever story, there's a lot, it feels more gritty, feels like more, I mean, in the opening line, we'll talk about the depths of hell is the first line. You know, there's this really kind of grit too. I'm wondering, the idea of what is ugly seems like to be one of the central questions of the album, how one defines ugly, what the world considers ugly.

So I guess, like, as we're talking about the album title, I mean, what does ugly mean to you? In terms of this project, yeah. In terms of the project is really just your own perception. It's not like being a part of the crowd. You know what I'm saying? That's kind of what it is. It's kind of individuality in however you see it. And it could be like a one man trash, another man's treasure type situation.

Right. But in my mind, it just leans right into just like being whatever you are, even if it stands outside of the norms of whatever you may see that as. So that's kind of where like I stood with the project. Yeah, it's interesting. We'll talk about Pastor Troy's vice versa, but it feels like this idea of how outsiders, what outsiders call ugly, and almost taking pride in an ugliness, because maybe we can get into the first track. You literally say, you ugly is the title of the first track. And then we hear West Side Gun's voice is the first thing we hear on that. And he right away like redefines. ugly. He's calling his girl ugly. He's calling his shoes ugly in a like a positive way.

Flyway. Did Westside have a verse or did you always just imagine him as this kind of like orator narrator? We started off with him finding some production.

I wanted him to curate the song specifically and he did that amazingly. You know what I'm saying? Came through with the the production in the words he was saying. So I really didn't need a verse, but I wasn't opposed to it because I love when he rubs. But for the most part, it was really him setting the stage for it.

And we went through a bunch of different channels with production because like samples and all that stuff. And we got to a place where there's no samples on that record specifically. And then just making it kind of like a jump scare in the middle of the record when you have like oh west side i'm rapping ceiling challenge show above my my pigeon then you have this beautiful melodic breakdown the words kind of describing the feelings that you just heard a little bit but it's preparing you for a whole another journey on the the back half of it right but still going with the same

intentions and the lines just explaining my narrative and explaining how I felt sometimes people try to like I don't know I don't know what people try to do but I wasn't trying to like go too far over your head with the writing or it's kind of trying to be more direct it's a couple of things uh metaphors and all that stuff it's going to be there but it was more a direct approach to it so if you listen to that if you listen to that project with that thought of mind is just like directly telling you what it is it kind of gives you more of an easiness when you listening to it opposed to like forever story I'm barring you up giving you all type of similes metaphors.

Right. Different stories. And it's all polished. That was the thing about forever story. I wanted to make it feel polished and beautiful, bright. You know what I'm saying? You get in this story, you get clouds and fucking stars and all the rainbows and shit. Right, right.

But on this one, I just wanted to feel like a constant dark cloud. Until damn near the end. Yeah. Yeah, I like how that first verse goes into the gospel bridge and you're kind of getting, it feels like you're setting up the world of the album. where things might be headed. It's like the sun peeking through the clouds for a moment. It's literally the words.

What you just say is literally, tomorrow will bring sunny skies. Well, I said, I was talking about crying. I'm like, I'm thinking about community leaders. There's tears in my eyes. Yeah, the tears of my eyes, I know tomorrow will bring sunny skies. And I would look back and smile because it's just a moment in time.

Niggas know I've been killing this shit for years. Just took a fucking silly challenge to show them above my peers. these two. So that kind of that kind of it runs throughout the entire project and you kind of, I love the opening line of the project

where you say live from the depths of hell so you get this dark imagery but right away with angel wings that have yet to flail. I feel like kind of spells out a lot of what the project is talking about kind of people coming from these darker places the potential they're born pure born with angel wings just not giving the opportunities or their circumstances not allowing them to

to fully blossom into their potential um and i love that second line and fans argue about record sales like they record exec themselves just like it's just hilarious right well the rhyme schemes are fucking great by the way thank you thank you live from the depths of hell we've Angel wings that have yet the flail And fans argue by record sales Like their record execs themselves It's like we all under a spell And still I hope this message reaches you well

Was the idea like We're focused on the wrong thing Yeah A hundred percent That's all it was Um Art It's like

We sell art But at the same time It's like priceless You know what I'm saying The places that it come from If it's natural and it's organic and beautiful. Like, if the art makes you feel something,

I don't think the consumption or the people that's, if it's the majority thing, I don't think that's the, that's hurt mentality, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like we've been, like, kind of plagued by that, you know, today's age and stuff like that. So I just wanted to speak to that, but not like dis fans, like, you know what I'm saying?

Not dissing, but also it's like, we kind of missing the ball. a little bit on what this music could be or the the medicine it provides you know what I'm saying to some people and it's medicine to me so I don't think just the price on it the numbers and stuff is cool it's nice when you got the accolades I would love I want the biggest accolades in the world yeah you know what I'm saying not saying I don't I care about I'm not a numbers guy but of course if you about to have a number one on billboard or you're doing you're going to lean into it and it's nothing wrong with that but it can't

be the bottom line. You know what I'm saying? It can't be the talking point of if Mick Jenkins had one of the best projects of the year. I think, you know what I'm saying? I think stuff like that is outside of the, that kind of devalues what we do a little bit. Because like I said, one of my favorite projects this year, I'm not sure how many people heard it.

But the Mick Jenkins album is something I just been living with and just loving it because he's just one of those type of artist. that pulled it out of you and it wasn't even like the happiest feelings it was kind of like like you feel a little bit aggressive but to that point yeah yeah okay so um so in the opening verse as well you introduce your older brother uh who feels like a recurrent character in the album yeah i guess for those not familiar with this story maybe convey that if you're comfortable with that and also like why because he comes up on this song comes up on glory um so i guess how how like Why do you want to use your brother's story?

Is there any kind of thematic symbolism that you thought his story could represent? Another bill, pimp my brother ain't he ain't get no bill on his third strike and if he served life, them crackers probably like that serves you right. Shit too real, she just gave me chill. I'm the devil's out. So I'm the youngest of seven, but I'm detached by a bunch of years.

I feel like my brother's almost, you're almost 50. But he'd been in jail like my whole life. You know what I'm saying, in and out. And before this project was another time he went back to jail. So I'm dealing with that and writing the album. He's heavy on my mind. And that was just kind of like the anger and exhaustion and stress, like my family didn't deal it with.

Because once you got like a family member in jail, it's kind of like all of y'all in them. Especially like my mother. And that's her. I have a blended family, so that's her son with her ex-husband. And I just see the stress and everything she go through dealing with that. And it makes me expressive of it. Even if I'm not telling you like the exact, throughout my timeline,

you probably understand what my brother did. Through my album, my discography, I talk about him every single album. But this one specifically just because he went back in the jail. And he didn't get a bail for, he'd been sitting, waiting for three, four years on bail since I, since I dropped the last project. Because if you see the Smigong video, he was in there. I'm saying? And then this three years later, and he's still doing what he's dealing with.

So it would just take me to a place of just questions, think about his mind state, my mother's mind state, my parents. A lot of things come, a rush of a waterfall of emotions. But I just try to give him love and just like talk through his life through my eyes, the way I see it. it's kind of like a action-packed movie, you know what I'm saying?

The stories that I hear about him, the conversation we've had, him being one of the first people I've ever seen rap. It just adds a lot to it. God does like ugly. It's just his story as well. That's why I bring him up in the first two songs, and I refer to him throughout the album all the time. The glory is

the whole song of Glory is about him. Okay. From top to bottom. The person that I'm talking about got baptized and da-da-da. All that's, I'm talking about him. And then I just bring it back to the end when I say, like, and I really let you know it was him. My brother back inside a cell. But, yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, it's, it's powerful as a listener because it's like, you know,

with family members, it's like you're able to see more than their mistakes, you know, like sometimes when you're looking just from a distant at someone and you just see mistakes they made. But, you know, with family, it's like you see them far beyond those mistakes. Okay, so we already talked about the gospel. Bridge. And then verse two, you issue somewhat of a lyrical challenge, so I got to take you up on that.

You say, you ask about catching a bar, so I got to ask you if I got it right. So the bar is, you say J.I.D. and friends playing Mario Kart, looking at my big brother back in that mid, and moving around the city like Lewis and Clark, hop out the car, turn to Carl Lewis. If you caught that bar, you understand why I'd turn to Carl Lewis. If you caught that bar, you understand why I do. do this. So great wordplay with the Lewis and Clark. Carl Lewis being this Olympic athlete runs track. That's my dad name though. Okay. That's what, yeah. There it is.

Father's name Carl Lewis, Root. And then do you have an older brother named Carl too? Yeah. Okay. So the bar is essentially like, I do this for family, right? Yeah, I was a sprint. Yeah. Okay. And then you say, you don't know me if you ain't even know me since Little Root, which was your childhood nickname, right? That's my last name. Okay, right. So they always call me a little root. Okay. For sure, for sure.

All right. Lyrical challenge. I got it right. You got to know. I love that. I love that. Okay. Okay, then I got to ask you about the Fiminacci line.

I'm top five. Pop the clock two times. Not me top three. You say I'm top five, pop the clock two times might be top three. And I don't know the Fibonacci sequence put the numbers together and something's got to make sense. So was it intentional that five, two, and three are Fibonacci numbers, but in the wrong word? What's the word? What's the name?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did it back. I did it back. I did it back. If you listen to my music, I flip stuff all the time. I always say it one way and I'll say it back. Carl Lewis, Lewis and Clark. You feel me? So with the Fibonacci, I was like, somebody's going to catch this.

Somebody knows it's the golden rule or something like that. I always mess up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's sick. Okay, cool. Good call. It's intentional.

Everyone out there. It's intentional. That's what I'm saying. I'm such a jittery person that you probably think, but the fact that you caught little stuff like that, it just means like I'm doing it right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some of us that are really paying attention. I love that kind of shit. It's my favorite stuff. Thank you. Okay, so then let's get into Glory, one of my favorite songs on the entire project.

Early in the morning got the sun in my eyes giving glory to God. I'm alert and alive. I ain't even sleep. I've been working. I'm tired. But it's not going to deter my assignment at the Lord. Sample is great. I know there's a pretty interesting, compelling story around the production. I don't know if you want to share that. Yeah, just essentially when I got the production, we started going through the clearing process after I had the song done. And it was a very obscure sample from a choir from Memphis, Tennessee. And they denied it initially. I had custom words and stuff. And I understand why they denied the sample at first.

But just being the type of person I am growing up the way I am, I did, I wanted to go a little bit further. You know what I'm saying? and to try and get clear and show the people that like the type of man I am. So I asked, can we speak? I got my mother on the phone because she's just like

the most beautiful Southern lady. Like, she could, she just got, she swag. Like, she knows how to speak and she knows how to carry herself. And it's a beautiful Southern lady, church God-fearing lady. And that's what she instilled in me.

So I just wanted the person on the other end of it to understand that sentiment. And the person who cleared it was very, very close with the sample because her father arranged the original choir however they sang that they arranged that and she's very close to it so got on the phone kind of gave it the idea the type of people we are spoke about my faith spoke to my mother said I'll make the changes

whatever needs to be and we did it and they cleared it but before they cleared it they said we want to speak to you guys one more time I'm like cool and when we spoke she says they cleared it and they did some research on me listen to my music they listened to my music they listed for every stories at the time so if you listen to that album you get to know me it's like oh it's not stick you know what I'm saying you listen to some great riding some real life experiencing they enjoyed it specifically like swang on and stuff like that okay right which is a negro spiritual like it's some something is really close to me so her specifically liking these records um said she just wanted to pray over me and my team

in the family and stuff because using that sample specifically verbatim she said i'm going into a spiritual battle spiritual warfare in the industry that doesn't like lean towards that you know what i'm saying it's more dark if you would say in the industry so when she said it kind of like threw me for a loop and like you understand like it's something special about it and she spoke all this grant all this stuff that's happening right now she spoke it she said this project is going to be huge it's going to be one of biggest works in I mean well it's kind of crazy like that that happened like that and it's just really just based in faith and we got together and you know more than two or three people gathered that's that's let's church that's what they say in the bible or whatever that's like powerful right there so

are they saying i can't make out what they're saying are do you do you know what they're saying in the sample no so yeah i was trying to listen in hard i was trying to yeah i couldn't make it out but it's a feel in there they're saying glory of course Okay, right. It's in glory, but, but, oh, gee, da-da-da-da? Yeah. It's just amazing. I don't even know.

You guys got some mileage out of it, too, the way the production tweaks with, like, the beat switch, and it, like, goes deeper and, like, that's so sick. It's like three levels to it. Yeah. It starts off how it starts. The second level, you get a little bit darker. And by the time you're at the end of the song, it's just giving you the pure intention, the grit, the fight through it.

You know what I'm saying. Eyes against me, true. I'm against the odds. Trying to get evil. See the evil in my eyes. Vingest is the Lord. So I leave it up the God. But if he don't move forward, I'm gonna get me minds.

Educating out of your closet. Interesting, the Zoom call, I was wondering the context around that Zoom call. It feels a little like, not random, but like it's just like, it comes out of nowhere, but then it like cues up the beat switch. It's like a cool contrast. But I was wondering like just the purpose of that Zoom call as a skit. Um, so if you listen to it, it sounds like somebody that will represent something from the business side of music business.

and that was kind of funny to me because it represents being kind of dark like we're about to get back you know what I'm saying that money hungry I am okay yeah we can hear you now go ahead Victoria

Hey guys hey Jen Just getting back from a meeting The numbers are looking great And we're about to Yep Yep The numbers and all of this stuff I just thought it was a funny thing

Yeah leading to the last verse because it's giving you a, it's positive, but at the same time, if you know, like the industry and how things go and stuff, it could be like,

oh, this could be a horrible thing. All the money's coming. So it means like more money, more problems type of shit. I was thinking about it in that realm. Okay. And like I said,

I wasn't trying to be too metaphorical, on this album. I literally, if you listen to the words, you understand what I'm getting. I'm not trying to, like, beat you over the head. Right, right, right.

Like the, I'm from the South, so even the way I speak, it has to be direct, you know what I'm saying? Because of the dialogue and the way we use words and stuff like that, you might understand it if I tried to go like over, over the top. Yeah, yeah. The final verse has one of my favorite lines on the project where you say, open up the Bible and read a chapter. I'm trying to free the shackles, my brother back inside a cell. So I just said a prayer.

And the Garden of Eden say he couldn't help but eat the apple. matter whatever so meet the pastor open the Bible up and read this chapter I'm trying free the shackles my brother back inside of sales so I just said a prayer in the garden of eat and say he couldn't help you eat the apple even at the contextualizing your brother's story but then tying it to the story of humanity like was really powerful I don't know what the I don't even break down with the some of the intention behind that one so you know Adam and Eve the temptation right essentially so whatever his vices are whatever He said he couldn't help it. Like, whatever he did, and I'm not going to go into detail. But he was like, he couldn't change that. You know what I'm saying? It's just innately who he is as a human.

Like, I don't know if you take that as bad or good, but I just wrote it to speak truth, opposed to, like, whatever, however anybody would feel. But I just know the type of man he is, and he, like, is no BS, you know what I'm saying? So when I spoke to him about whatever occurred, you know what I'm saying? saying his sentiment was like bro i couldn't even and it wasn't nothing like two like crazy crazy because like bro that had to go i had to run that you know what i had to do what i had to do and that's literally me bringing that bible and actual real life and kind of bring them in so everybody could get where i was going with it like i said it's just very simple but i just think it's a

swag a way to bring them like both together with the writing and stuff yeah because i try to unlearn and relearn like different writing techniques. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to just be the same type of rapper that you say a bar and it's like, oh, this is like, you know what I'm saying? When they use like, I hate that, you know what I'm saying? And I try to just like steer away from that. That's why that line, I don't even know what you would consider that.

You know what I'm saying? The writing style of that. Right. But that's why it came off like that. I just think it's just like good writing. Yeah. Okay, so we get the pastor interspersed throughout glory.

Yeah. Which I read was Christo's dad, right? Yes. Christo is your producer, long-time producer. It's on all your albums. That's kind of wild. Yeah, right? He's a P.K.

Yeah. Which is cool. And I also think it's cool because last time my dad was like on the forever store. He was all over it. Right. You know what I'm saying? This time, his father's all over this project. So I think it's cool to just being able to add ancestors' legacy part of the stuff

that we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Glory ends with the pastor kind of saying like what God, the work that God does on us. And then we transition into work. So the sample on this is fucking really cool and powerful. In the background of the song, pretty subtly, but once you hear it, it's like you can't unhear, at least I can't. But there's a literal work song. Sampled, it's called Early in the Morning, recorded in 1948.

I was sung by four incarcerated black men in Mississippi Pentontentiary, who, are forced to work on these, essentially an extension of slavery. Yeah, forced prison labor. I found that specifically. You found that? Oh, sick. Okay. For sure.

Well, I'm going to bed where I ride. I'm sorry. I'm sipping liquor like a leader. Bigger you need a leader. I can come and deliver the victory. Well, tell me the story of that. It just ties back into everything that I be speaking about. Okay.

Did you have the concept work first and then found the sample? Or did the sample kind of inspired? I did it all together. When I was writing the verse, I had the production. Well, we did a production in the studio. And I feel like I went on YouTube or something and just start looking at it. Because I used the prison songs specifically. Those guys, I've used that before.

It could have been on radar. I'm not 100% sure, but something could have been on radar from them. But I used that because I knew like, oh, this makes sense. It's like closer to like my roots or what I'd be talking about. It's like the slavery stuff, the prison, you know what I'm saying? School, the pipeline thing, that whole little world right there. And yeah, I just thought the essence, even if you didn't hear it all the way, you could kind of fill it.

You know what I'm saying? And that's what I was trying to go with. No, it's beautiful. And I also like how it ties into the, at least in my perception, ties into the theme of the album because you have these men in this really ugly situation, creating beautiful. You know, creating these songs. You can literally hear their axes on the, that create the rhythm of the song, you know. So blending work with this beauty, just really cool, really cool detail.

Okay, I got to ask you about the opening line of this song. So you could even stop my drive and feel with 1955 and I'm on 85 doing 95 and a 1952 Dodge, I don't see so much with two eyes on me. So you say you couldn't even stop my drive if it were 1955 and I'm on 85 doing 95 and a 952 Dodge. Okay, so you said you're pretty direct on this album, but this seems like it's kind of coded

with some stuff. Yeah. Okay, so can I give you my breakdown? You can tell me if it's right or wrong? Okay. So, couldn't stop my drive. Obviously, your ambition,

you're referencing a literal car drive in this metaphor. Yeah. I also read that this was inspired by your football coach, so I was wondering if there was like a football drive play on his thing was just let's go to work that was his whole little afraid

okay so 195 was the year of the Montgomery boycotts tying in this idea of stop my drive they refused to write buses the 85 is the interstate that connects Atlanta to Montgomery so

connecting your home stuff around the same time too right yeah exactly so yeah so the 85 was built in 1958, so three years after the boycotts. 52 Dodge, 95 miles an hour. Interesting. I don't know if this might just be like crazy reaching,

but the fastest dodge from 1952 only goes like 85 or 90. Yeah, 85. Okay, so it sounds like this was intentional. So essentially the play is like even if the buses were down, highway wasn't built yet because your siding year before it was built. Yeah. Car didn't go that fast. you still can't stop my drive.

100%. You say you weren't being lyrical. That's like so sick. Yeah. I feel like it's intention. It's just doing your history and stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know all of it.

I knew when boycotts and all of that stuff was, but I didn't know when 85 was built. So I had to actually look that up. Okay. He didn't be intentional about that. Okay. So we'll break down like, to where does the initial idea come from?

Is it just that opening line? Or like, so how do you get into this, doing the research? Like how does that generate? It started with the first line and I decided I wanted to go with a number scheme. And it's not really that crazy because this is why I say it's not that complex because I use fives at the end of everything. I just and I hate when rappers do that sometime when you rhyme a word with a word you already said before. But I'm like, this is numbers.

Suck my dick. But yeah, it literally started with the initial line. You couldn't even stop my drive if it was in 1955. five, that's where the idea start coming from because like, okay, now we're talking about this, how can we do more history lessons and try to like give little inklings of what I'm talking about?

So I looked up when the first Dodge, Dodge rhymes with five a little bit. So I'm like, hey, I'm talking about the car. When was the first car? What was the fastest? What's the speed? Looked up all of that stuff. And then I went to the dates and try to just make it all correlate to like you not being able to stop my intentions, my drive, my focus, all of that stuff.

So sick. It's really cool. Thank you. Okay. Let's jump to community. Yeah. It's one of the best rap songs I've ever heard. The song is so good. So congratulations on making it.

It's a perfect song. Thank you. I'm confused by the intro. I'm wondering if you could help me understand. So you go into like all these kind of natural elements. The rain couldn't understand it. The pain made them understand. Shit.

The sun tried to understand. The gun made me understand. The wind try whispering to warning. Really beautiful line. It kind of culminates to this line. All the forces like a portal to a vortex connected to the stars, just projecting where we part at. And then you do this a bunch on this album

where you take a reference to childhood or like a reference to, I don't know, something like sweet and then it flips. And in this case, you flip it to like this scene or I think you're talking about guns, pull up where you park at, aim a little dark where you bark at. So can you break down that intro a little bit for me?

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Head to Amazon.com slash Prime to shop now. I started it off by just speaking about like why things are so fucked up for people in these living situations, people of color in these living situations. So it's like nobody understands it. The rain couldn't understand. The pain made you understand. Son tried to understand a gun made me understand. It's just that's right there is hell of violence within those words right there. And just.

Just with how I grew up and stuff like this, I know I moved around, probably before I was 13, I probably moved to 10 different cribs. You know what I'm saying? Different communities, horrible places, some middle class, some apartments, all of that stuff. It kind of just add into how I grew up, the visual reputation, the black people that I, because I would say this, I grew up around all black people. I'm from Atlanta.

Went to a black school, middle school, high school, end up going to an HBCU. So my real first interaction with a lot of other races and people that's not all black, like, we're now. It's kind of like when I came into this industry. And I'm like, oh, this is the world. Traveling the world kind of opened up to my eyes to let me know. It's not a lot of us are here. You know what I'm saying?

So these small sections in the corners of whatever state you say in, like, it kind of has the same thing going on. It's hoods everywhere. It's an MLK. And it's going to be a hood. That was the two things you can guarantee. So with the words and stuff, I was just truly trying to explain in a round, not even a roundabout type of way because you can understand what I'm saying. Rain couldn't understand.

These are very simple terms and stuff like that. And, oh no, I lost a question. I started rambling a little bit. That's all good. Yeah. Well, I just wrote that. It's just a beautiful way to frame it, I think. And then you go into the apartments.

Yeah. That becomes kind of the main symbol of the song. Yeah. Is that just got to go back into what you're just saying? Yeah. Yeah. Just really trying to unpack and give like the instruction that I was told and give a, what's a true perspective on how I feel about these low income housing neighborhoods

and just the places people were placed in without even to have. without an option, you know what I'm saying? No choice. I gotta ask you about the Bob de Builder line, but seems to be a crowd favorite. Do you know, like when you write a line like that, do you know, like, okay, that's going to be. I didn't even think of it as a big deal. I was just like Bob the Builder line, line, which seems to be a crowd favorite. represent someone who like come knock down these buildings or a gentrifier something like that.

That's why I mean like usually when a rapper or artist thinks they got a bar and they stab it on the head, they probably dropped the beat or some shit like that. Right, right, right. I just kept going because it wasn't even about, it was actually about the next line. The next line matters more. You know what I'm saying? What about the children? When I check a news channel, now I'm talking about Palestine and Ghazin, all of these things.

I get a similar feeling, but still, we're going to make it to happen high water hell. Who gave me chills a little bit. But all of this stuff that's going on around the world and the kids that are dying, the dogs, I mean, we're going to die. But when it's the kids, that's when I'm fucked up about it.

So when I said, what about the children? And it's, you know what I'm saying? We're talking about Bob Buildings and what about the children? I think that's just like super cool. Yeah. Because the kids watch Bob the Builder. And then we're talking about true pain and people dying and lives being lost

and it's a lot of different, you know. Yeah. Okay, so I got to ask you about the clips feature. It's a really cool, like, generational baton pass that you set up at the end of the verse. It was after then I took my talus right up to Virginia. He said that she for love her. She was good or she was gritty. I could tell you what he was, but let bro tell you what I'm missing.

Pay it to me. What's missing in my hood? I identified. Then I brought white to my hood. Did you write your way into the one? wanting clips to be on the song? Or did you know they're gonna be on the song and you wrote to pass off like that?

Does that make sense? I give you what you saying. I wrote it to pass off and to push a verse like that. Okay. Because the connection between us, I mean. But you knew they were gonna be on the song? Yeah, I had pushed it at first. Okay.

But I pushed everything back because I was like, yo, I need malice. There's no way I can, you know what I'm saying? Even because he stepped back into the light or step back into rapping again. like I would love to do this with them because I went to school in the gym. Like I said on the record and being up there, I heard everything about them. I know, I feel like I met some of their childhood friends.

I met people that went to school with them. Like, oh, I used to go to school tonight. You know what I'm saying? So it was always a through line of like a connection. And it was just perfect. You know what I'm saying? It lined up perfect. So when you get that malice first back, that malice first, I think, is a perfect 16.

It's a perfect verse. Like, what's the reality? reaction when he delivers you something that good. We'll barky. My ghetto's not your culture. Niggas really die here. So hard to say goodbye is the only lullaby here. Kilo's turning boys to men.

Gotta pick a side here. Some with Jesus shuttles worth. Some of us were not says. It's time goes by. It's very simple. When you know stuff like, I seen him speaking about me in an interview, saying like, oh, they say I feel like I'm one of the rappers that,

came from an era where you had to rap. I sent my verse first, so I didn't know what was coming. I just know I'm going to put my best foot forward. I didn't know Bob the builder. Like, I thought it was pretty funny. Yeah. But hearing somebody that you look up to, respect, I'm saying, both of them, do that thing, and then they're men of standards, you know what I'm saying?

I love shit like that. You know what I'm saying? That's what I do this shit for, is to be able to have these companies. for you to say this one of the best hip-hop songs you heard. I don't know if you said this year or ever ever. Ever. That's like that's what that's a beautiful thing right there. You know what I'm saying?

Because I do it because I like it. I don't do it because like, oh, all the homies in the studio like this shit. It's like, no, I really think this is a good composition. But when that exudes through the record and you give me that reaction or you say that's how it makes you feel, it's just like, okay, the message is being toward the, told the stories being told and it's done in a real authentic type way that's authentic to me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

And how I feel, how I grew up and stuff like that. Because like my stories are important for, I know not just for me, but for my little brothers, my little cousins and other little black kids that grew up how I grew up, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's kind of like inspiring to show like, okay, it's an A, B, you can go from A to B. You can do your thing, you know what I'm saying? You can make a play.

You can grow. You needn't got to be an artist. You can do anything you want. But just, I don't know. I keep a review mirror just to look back because that's kind of what my music is about. Like, being from the South, I rap like I'm trying to get the slaves ready for you, for sure. And we foo. We fought, bro.

But that's literally how I rap. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? That's what I care about. That's what my father cared about. Yeah. Yeah. I just got to acknowledge Malice's final two bars tying perfectly into this album.

Candy Lady right there, zombie land right there. So if we're talking about this album of ugly, dark light, ugly beautiful, him painting that picture of these apartments, giving you the candy lady, the warmth, the zombie land, and everything that implies. And then, I mean, he knew his assignment because he says them apartments be the perfect backdrop or any nightmare tying it. all the way full circle. And then, yeah, you cut the beat out, assuming just because it's just like mic drop. I actually rapped after that.

Oh, you did? After you heard his verse? I already had it. I already had the second part of it. Because the beat switch, when you hear those keys come in, the beat switch. And I was like, okay, if we don't get this in time, it'll just be me and I'll do two verses.

Oh, got it. It would be me and push. And I'll do two verses. One at the end, I mean, one at the beginning, one at the end, half him in the middle. But it worked out perfect. So those bars, like, they were fucking great, but you probably never want here.

Okay, all right. Okay, so I want to skip as much as it pains me to skip over. Okay, actually, no. I got to ask you about a specific moment on G's. One of the more unique perspectives or stories I've heard in a rap verse before where you tell this story about your car getting broken into, I'm assuming it's a real story. And then you explaining yourself, like checking yourself in real time

and contextualizing, feeling yourself getting angry, and then contextualizing this specific incident within something larger, and then even earlier in the verse, you're talking about when you had your own past of doing similar things. Yeah. I'm in my car, see some glass by the door,

and I'm like, what the fuck is this? I knew what it was. The stadium right in the hood. My window was busted. Now I feel out their blood is rushing. Take a second and a minute. Had a couple things, but if they ain't fine my bank

and they ain't really get nothing. Man, God dang. Little niggas took everything. From the spare tires to the spare chains, insurance papers and some blunt spray. What the fuck what they want with that anyway? But we in Atlanta, you can see the channels, man. So I'm assuming that's a true story and I just maybe talk about that mind switch because I feel like it's something like really unique in song but also like important for people to like think about.

It's super important. And this is going to be, it's going to sound kind of crazy to me. It's going to sound very not to me to you. I said it to the home another day. I was like, yo, I have so much like empathy for my brothers like black people. That's like, if I got killed by robbed and killed by a black man, I told my home, I was like, you know what I, the first question I asked? Like, what did he go through all his life? What the fuck did he deal with?

You know what I'm saying? Like, why do you look at yourself being me, if you're a black man, you look at another black man. It's a representative of yourself in a way. It's like, how did you get here to this self-hatred place? Now, I probably won't like, I'm not saying this. is actually like how I would do. But we were having a conversation. I just remember having that empathetic thought in my head. Like, how the fuck did he get here? It ain't having to do with me. This is just whatever. I'm, I got robbed, blah, blah, blah. But in real life, like, that empathy

that I spoke in that moment kind of sent me for a loop was like, yo, why do you think like this? And it goes back to like my family and my father. And he's being in the military and him telling me about his friends that passed and he went to the military when he was like 14, so he just remembers carrying like dead bodies from being in this war, dealing with all the she he had to deal with. I just, I don't know, I see myself as an empathetic person towards my people, but at the end of the song I say, I ain't tripping, because I know who responsible, it's the motherfuckers they'd be claiming we too thugged out.

We're just blaming the system. I'm just, be, be, you know, one of those type of guys like, ah, get your foot off my nigga, like, but let me do that, you know what I'm saying?

Because it's just the, no, it's valid. I think it's valid. I think that's one of the more important stories on there that you could miss. You could, you could miss that whole story and just think, jeez,

just rapping again. It's never that. It's literally second verse, I'm telling you a whole story. Get to the, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling my real,

I'm saying Saints and Falcons robbery weekend. I'm such a football. I'm giving you specific time. at times, dates, how it happened, glass by the door, and I'm thinking about how, dang, I used to try to, like, crack cards. Oh, I broke in a car before, too. You know what I'm saying? Why did you do that? Why did you and your homies have that over you? And it's just kind of like, adolescence, youth, the situation people placed in. Yeah.

Disenfranchised. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Lower circumstances, classes, all of that. So it's like, even saying, I think it's funny, my mom hate this line. I'd be thinking Martin was wrong, Malcolm was right. You know what I'm saying? It's very simple, but at the same time, their ideologies were vastly different in their approach and stuff like that. So just the contrast of all the, like, how you would assume a person is and then just getting into their background and how they grew up and all that stuff. Like, again, I wasn't trying to be too metaphorical on here. I just wanted to tell you a story of, like, why I'm empathetic towards people that look like me.

It's because I've done the same things and I see what we're up against or we're up against and still to this day. Yeah. I mean, I just try to like shine light on the mindset of a young black man from East Atlanta that's grown. You know what I'm saying? To a man. I ain't having fun with it, bunch of young niggins trying to feel no, I'm to the pain. I ain't tripping because I know who responsible. What's the motherfuckers?

They'd be claiming that we too thugged out. Gangsta, gangstug. Everybody bugged out. Yeah, it's a really powerful story, especially even you understand the context of it. I feel like hip-hop is more and more giving you that empathetic perspective, you know? I think Kendrick's doing great work there and just like really contextualizing it, especially obviously for people like me that just it's foreign to us, you know, we grew up like that. I wanted to jump into what I perceive as act two of the album, which is like this stretch of more melodic songs.

interesting approach in terms of like grouping them all together I think the more traditional approach would be kind of sparsing out those songs so I'm wondering what the thinking was kind of making this larger act of these similar types of songs was just being a 90s baby in loving like R&B in soulful sounds and I just want like I went to vocal classes for this shit like I want you to really understand I'm really trying to sing.

I'm really singing here. I'm really like... Grammy nominated singer now. Come on. We're attacking these notes. Shout out, Ms. Beverly Johnson. Thank you. I appreciate you.

Love you. Play the game. By the cold. Don't change on the game. No you roll. She thinks the performance on Wholeheartedly is okay. I think it's really good. But my book, she said it's okay.

She's older late. She's like 80-something, dog. Like, she don't care. She just look. give it to me how it is because she probably heard fucking Ella Fitzgerald sing back in the day or something like. Right.

So with that being said, uh, it had to be like that. It just had to be even if it, even if you feel like you lost your vibe and you want more rap, I'm going to rap forever, bro, but you're going to get these melodic songs. Right.

You don't get these songs of me and Jesse Reyes, me and Mariba, me and Don Tolliver, whole Harley Me, Todd Alson and Black. Like, you're going to live in that. And if it's just not for you, then I might not even be the artist for you like but my fans appreciate it that and i appreciated it and that's more important because i do stuff and i like it it's not about like it can't be based off anybody else's visual you know what i'm saying it can't be from their viewpoint or it's just not authentic to me so i did that

intentionally i wanted those to be in that pocket i wanted the mood to switch i wanted to flip the mood on his head because i could have did a whole album just full of like communities right you know what I could have did more G's and stuff like that, but it was, it didn't feel the time or the place for it. It felt like me doing this selfish moment of like, okay, I really love these. I love this, who the fuck is this moment on what we own? You know what I'm saying? I love that because fucking Duntile was like Sam Cooke. He's like Sam Cooke to me. I said that song before. And I love the confusion. I love how dark it is. It's vibey. Let's let's tweet at 3 o'clock in the morning. Tell me that's not like what the greatest songs you ever heard. You know what I'm saying?

Three o'clock in the morning coming from a long day or legally to club, any situation like that that is one of like my favorite moments on the album along with the melodic section in itself. I feel like Cody Blue is like one of the big of that pain, call a holiday of the same. I feel like Cody Blue is like one of the biggest bigger songs off of Forever story does that which is all melody is that seeing the success and the kind of fans taking a liking to that song give you more confidence to do like this stretch or you're going to do it anyways i'm going to do it anyway yeah i'm going to do it anyway but i would say that whole heart ho hartle was the oldest song on this project it's made in 2018 okay 2018 um should just say for the listeners

that was the one that was nominated for best uh melodic rap song yeah the grammy so oh yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, definitely best melodic. And it's crazy because it's the oldest one on the project. Yeah. One of the first songs that brought me into like, oh snap, I'm working with Thai dollar signs. I'm in the industry. It was one of those moments.

So for that to carry over to get a Grammy known with me and my brother Black, like me and Black been doing this, we just sleep on each other couches and like, we damn it came up together. That and then Ty Dole Signs, one of the first artists that I always bought their album, you know what I'm saying? And the free TC album was my shit. It's like full circle. Yeah, that's really. It's all super full circle. And my career has been like that the whole time,

from the people that I love to people I've been able to work with. And I don't know. You just can't beat it. Okay, so let's, so we get the Envibe Vibe and Interlude, which kind of gets us back into transitions into the third act of the album, which is, at least it's my framing. I don't know if you thought about that. the album at acts, but

definitely a switch on McCaffee. McAfee, McAfee, sorry. There's enough raps in this one song for an entire album. It's so great. The number of flows and the switches, it's like, when you wrap this live, I saw you last week wrap this live, I was like, Jesus Christ.

It's a lot of information. It works, though. It works because the crowd is right there with me. I give them little moments to say that shit. Yeah. Well, there's a stretch of songs where you wrap This, I can't remember exactly the set list or a bunch of songs like this back to back I was like, you must be doing cardio like a day or something, Jesus Christ

but there's a lot of like I feel like we're getting a lot of stories on the last half of the album. Yeah. Little dog with a bite in a bark of nice heart nickers abuse and turn to dark a nighthawk looking for food and look at the booty nice off maybe the boogey bitch look good with the lights off

he bust real dope moves one dope white two loose crew three bad black little nigg said fuck fuck them fuck you fuck dudes off tough dudes get tough to ash to hash to dust to dust you best to bust the rusty trusty dusty if you brush you on McCaffee being I'm not sure exactly who they're about but it feels like you're talking to maybe a younger generation gets you open with a little dog with a bite and a bark a nice heart I'm talking about the person on the song oh baby Keith okay I was gonna I was wondering if he was symbolic but it's literally him it's not literally him but it's very symbolic of like what you might

come across in Atlanta right and he was like the first perfect person to like help me set that up because he like just represents a lot and he represents talent and intellectual um capacity being from where he from he's like 18 19 or something 18 19 something like that and I don't know I just appreciate this song for what it is and how heavy it is and the story like you can hear a subject matter what's going on in there it's not just like randomly thrown together it's literally like stories that I've compiled through my life and people that I've seen that live that those exact words yeah um who's on the outro there's a guy to kind of give you props and oh oh you're talking about at the end at the very end of the

song oh that's like because you talk about someone right before that uh a bloodhound i think he's a blood now uh i don't even try to show him a different route you've been thugging in since yeah Is that the guy you're talking about? That's not him at the end. That's not him at the end. But that's my homie. Dion, bro. I remember, like, I'm talking about park ball and stuff like that.

And I just remember he's the worst little human, bro. He was like seven or eight years old. I'm like, bro, why are you doing these things? Why are you cussing so much? Why are you talking to this grown man like that? And we're just playing park ball. And I was like, oh, this is what you mean by bad apple mom. This is who you don't want me to hang out.

I kind of got that early. So that song, I hate that I said, name, bro. I hate it. I said it. I can leap it out. No, whatever. But yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just real occurrences. Just life that I've seen in Atlanta, like, just trying to paint ugly, beautiful scenes and just get the energy, you know what I'm saying? You feel that. A bloodhound. I think a nigga of blood now. He bang guns and takes crumbs. He bugged out.

Don't even try and show him another route. He been thugging this kid. You know that we seen it come as his park ball days. I don't way, walking a shot it was popping off day. Getting mad, fight, fucking off crazy. You do feel like you get a portrait of one aspect of Atlanta throughout this project. you know, painting these stories and... And not the happy side of it. It's not like the funnest. It's not the club going scene.

Right. It's kind of like the dark underworld that you probably wouldn't even like want to get into. Right. Okay. Of Blue and K-word, I feel like, is where we start to get some of the resolution and there's like a little more hopeful themes

interspersed with the ugliness. The Mariba intro might be my favorite part of the entire album. It's so beautiful. Yeah, it's insane. It's so good. So when you're working with collaborators like that, how much direction are you giving her specifically? Do you tell them, like, here's the theme of the song?

100%. That's what I did for this one specifically. Usually I wouldn't have to do that, but I just needed a certain tone that she brought, and I wanted it to be simple but heavy. And she played it and sang it. She played the piano on her? No, she played the guitar.

She played the guitar on it. And then I helped her with like some backgrounds. I was just sang a little bit in the back where I was like, I just wanted to be your moment because I'm about to just wrap my life away. And get to the, it's more of a resolution type song. Definitely, definitely. Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, Blue itself is kind of its own little epic. It's like a subtle epic because there's like three or four parts to the song.

It's like a short film. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. So something I haven't talked about That seems to come up throughout the album But really does come up on a blue Is this idea of cycles

And being stuck in cycles Like in the core In your intro you say Are you following the flames Like a tail chasing a dog? Later on in the verse You talk about I'm going to ask you about who this is about

But essentially you have that line about Writing a line sniff a white line pier write in a line sniff a white line pure like this cycle I keep that personal okay yeah well somebody there

but thematically the song seems to be framed by Pastor Troy's vice versa because you quote there's a refrain in the song What if heaven was hell

and vice versa a verse of vices I'm assuming that's a call back to Pastor Troy's song 100%. What's of heaven with hell

and vice versa if I told you go down heaven was hell hell and vice versa Aversa, averse of vices, writing and curse of the ground of an author defining purpose, talking to itself walking in circles in a secruity cabin somewhere, call no phone service. And this whole song is a callback, because the first words you hear during the hook is we got to find a place. You know what I'm saying? And then I start going on with that.

But at the end of the song, literally the last words I say, I think I found it. You know what I'm saying? I think I found a place. And that place is love, essentially. Fuck it, I go with a love. is. I think that's the place. That all like that is the opening to the ending. You know what I'm saying? It's awful circle, but also having him on like the net song too is like super player because I did the same thing on Forever Story with Yassine. We had surround sound sample Miss Fat Booty and then we actually

had them on stars. And I try to like show love to my OGs and everybody that's like inspired me. And I've been able to contact and get their same reciprocated. love, which is super great for me. It's just super great just being in a position where people that you were inspired by kind of have the same thing with you. But with that, yeah, yeah, the Pastor Troy moment was another part that was just like full reflective of like kind of how I grew up. And that song specifically is just like chiseling away, like chipping away at the ice,

trying to figure out like what is this shit all about? like we got to find a place and just not walking it running in circles you know what I'm saying just interested in what your perception or interpretation of that concept of what if heaven was hell and vice versa because you end up in my interpretation you end up rejecting it later in the song because you say fuck if heaven was hell never rebel from the side of god um so I guess what was your interpretation of Pastor Troy's vice versa thematically and why did you want to use it as kind of the thematic framework of this song? opposite, right?

Yeah. Because just, I love that song, vice versa. One of the most darkest, it's just dark ass song for real, even to the point where he reversed and cut out some of like the verse on that part. What you do, you get in the guy. Yeah. Yeah. And I know what he said or that.

The mother Mary stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Concupine shit. He went crazy. Yeah. But I'll just try to go from the other side.

Like, you know what I'm saying? I said the same things, but I'm speaking more towards like, no, it's only heaven. Like, you know what I'm saying? if that's what you're looking for, if you're looking for love and stuff, this song we haven't like, I wasn't really leaning to like the hell side of it because we already got this God does like ugly. I'm talking about all that type of stuff. So with this song, it's more like,

it's more of a resolve in it. And it's speaking on respect to like honoring God. I'm saying. Telling her needs, just telling God what I need. I follow my knees to center my feet. I'm back on the road. The sin and repent and repeat.

The sin and repent and repeat. The sin and repent. I got to see it throwing towards finish. We all got a sentence We up against blank period With a parenthesis I've been searching for something with substance I'm clearly coming up with nothing

But fuck it I go with the love is I think that's the place Yeah so it's interesting Because yeah You already talked about it But the song Eventually it's really cool How you set up with the

The sin of repent and repeat The sin of repentant repeat I gotta finish it through until it's finished We all got a sentence We up against blank period That whole wordplay is really cool But then yeah you land on I'll go where the love is

I think that's the place I might have found it, which feels like for me, at least, that would have been a natural transition into for keeps. But we get K-word, which is definitely more gets back to the darker. It's almost like the seduction of K-word being karma. And you're kind of personifying karma and talking about a relationship with karma.

So I'm curious, for me, K-word is, you've been talking about cycles. Karma to me is like the ultimate cycle, not only in this lifetime. but if you you know research or karma in terms of reincarnation it's like you'll actually be reborn until you get a life cycle right yeah so i'm curious one like why did you want to kind of land the album with k word conceptually and like what like what was the idea of personifying karma and how it fits into the larger theme of the album she come around everybody calling her bitch she don't give a

fuck she like that shit when she pull up Everybody bed, dead, goodbye like a long night kiss. Karma in itself is, as soon as you hear the word, you get like a bad connotation. You think like karma, ho. But I think the way I approached it was like good karma. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying. Who can I call?

Who can I call and all this stuff? Karma got you good. Karma got you beat. Karma got you good is kind of like where I was standing with it. And the opposite side is like karma got you beat. I don't care if it cover me because it's like I ain't doing nobody wrong. Like, you know what I'm saying? I would assume I would say I've been a good man on my life.

You know what I'm saying? And of course not perfect. Right. Whatever, whatever. But my karma has like not proved to be or maybe not to this point, but it hasn't proved to be like evil dwelling. And it could be like, I don't know if it's on the way. It could be sins of the fathers.

That's, you know, how that stuff comes. But specifically when I was speaking of karma on this one, it was, personifying it again doubling down on I don't fuck with the demon shit you know what I'm saying saying on demons time I think you sound foolish like all of that dark shit I was kind of like throwing that under the bus

and just trying to like show a brighter side to it because even at the end of the verse I say Nephi in his cycle here tonight because I saw the light you know I'm saying that's the brightness to it and then you got Jesse coming in and whatever the fuck she said I always ask her like what was you saying it was it was simple though It was just saying,

Yeah, I have the translation. Okay, okay, perfect. So I just said, be careful with revenge. You don't have to go and collect from everyone and their mother. God takes care of it. Have faith that God takes care of it. Yeah. Which to me, like, for me, for keeps, feels like more like an epilogue.

Like the conclusion of the album feels like what you say, if I do it right, I can end the cycle here tonight because I saw the light and then Jesse Reyes, who I'm assuming is personifying karma. Yeah, 100%. Giving that outro feels like a really nice. natural conclusion to ties up the ugly beautiful motif, the dark light. What is the resounding message that you would want people to take away from the album in terms of, yeah, I guess just a message. Is it, is it karma? Is it? What is it, like, to take away from the album in terms of, yeah, I guess just a message. Is it karma? Is it,

like good deeds will inspire good life or like what do you? I feel like that's a good point you can make from the album. And just perceiving yourself is like, not even perceiving yourself. Just being who you are naturally. You know what I'm saying? If you're innately like a bad person, then I'm sorry. Like be that, I guess.

You know what I'm saying? You probably couldn't change that. That comes to like my empathetic side. So like if somebody did something wrong to me like giving them that past. So this is the conclusion would essentially be just like living your life, your best intentions, putting your best foot forward. And just see the world how you see it. Don't try to be like anybody else.

The herd mentality, like stuff like that is not important to me. So I try to like cut that off, you know what I'm saying, gangrene it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, kind of got throughout the entire album and I were coming up on time. I guess, curious, do you know, are you been working on the new, any new projects, or you got anything in mind? I got a lot of stuff going on.

As far as new music, I mean, it's probably going to be my best body of work. I'm 100% sure it's going to be like my best body of work. Just because of things I've learned and me growing up into this music, like, I didn't always think I was going to be an artist. So me being in this industry for man and I'm trying to understand the maneuvers and then I understand it, kind of got it. I think it's going to be like a good, a good on to the next whatever chapter this is, but I'm kind of not rushing it. You know what I'm enjoying this. I'm enjoying this. I listen to the project like a couple nights and I was like, this is a really good fucking project. And it kind of grew with me. You know what I'm saying? It's still growing. I feel like even today I'm still, I'm not hearing shit that I wrote. I know that I wrote the shit.

It's not like, oh, you're that smart. You just wrote some shit that you did. Like, nah, I'm just living with it and watching my words. Just manifest my life kind of. You know what I'm saying? Like the good karma thing. That song, Karma always, like, be, like, not forcing myself to be a good person, but just, like, lead with love, essentially.

Right. Even songs like skate and stuff like that. Like, that just brings a part of my childhood, Atlanta. Like, it's a super Atlanta project. No, no, I'm in love with this album right now. And I'm still thinking forward. Like I'm, I have stuff that I got plans for music and just different things I want to try. But I'm in that place of like unlearning, relearning.

So I can have another writing style for the next project. And I'm walking through it, bro. Yeah. We're on a road, so you know. Yeah, yeah, no, you got a busy schedule. Yeah, well, thank you for this body of work. I mean, we're all still sitting with it. there's a lot to learn from it.

I mean, even prepping for this episode, it goes way deeper than I initially thought. So it's just one of those albums I think grows on you, grows with you. There's more than enough kind of, I always say there's like portals. You can learn, you know, we didn't talk about the song with Vince,

but even like that, even that intro, you know, there's a whole history lesson. Oh, brother. VCRs, but that's one of my favorite records as well. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a heavy record for sure. Yeah, but yeah, there's a little, stuff like references like that that I've been really enjoying just like digging into you so we appreciate the the work and I appreciate your time in yeah any time bro yeah thank you bet