Dissect - Kanye's Twisted Fantasy vs. Drake's Take Care | LAST SONG STANDING

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

Last Song Standing is back! Dissect's Cole Cuchna and The Midnight Boys' Charles Holmes begin a journey to crown the Best Album of the 21st century (so far). Every episode this season, Cole and Charles each nominate one album they feel should be in contention for the century's best. Each album is discussed individually before the two albums battle head to head, where Cole and Charles argue until they can agree on the better album. The winning album from each episode advances to the season finale Royal Rumble, where the LSS boys will face off one last time until they can finally agree on the Best Album of the 21st Century. New episodes release every Tuesday. Hosts: Cole Cuchna & Charles Holmes Producer: Justin Sayles Audio/Video Editing: Kevin Pooler Video Engineer: Chris Wohlers Theme Music: Birocratic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing. I'm Cole Kushna. And I'm Charles Holmes. And today, the L.S. Boys are back with our fourth season. But this time, we have a twist. On this show, Cole and I typically argue our way through an artist's entire catalog

in order to crown their single greatest song of all time, a.k.a. the last song standing. Season one covered Kendra Kumar. Season two was on Frank Ocean. And in our most recent season, we debated Outkast where we ended up crowning their best song ever. But 2025 marks the quarter point

of the 21st century, so this season, instead of searching for an artist's greatest song, we're asking an even bigger question. What is the greatest album of the 21st century so far? Over the next eight episodes, we'll be pitting classic albums

head-to-head tournament style. We're covering everyone. I'm talking about Jay-Z, Tyler the Creator, daft punk, Beyonce, Radiohead, M.F Doom. And more will fight to the death until we can agree on the best album of the past 25 years.

We'll go into more detail about the format later. But Cole, it's been a while. First of all, you're glowing. Oh, thank you. Your skin is always glowing, but do you want to give anybody some tips? Oh, okay. So my 10-year-old daughter is absolutely obsessed with skincare right now.

For real? I take her to Seporia, like every weekend. She has... Sephora? You are Kendra. You are Kendra. You are like Sephora? And she wants to make a...

makeup tutorial YouTube channel and everything. And so she's got me on a five-step skincare routine. I'm on a five-step skin care routine as well. Yeah, you look great too. Hey. And you want to know who else is looking really, really great? Our man, J.S., Justice Sales, in the fucking back.

How are you, Justin? I'm doing great, guys. Happy to be here. Just let me say at the beginning of the season, don't screw this up. You got to get it right. People are still mad at us about the outcast. Like, sometimes I'll get, like, people in the office being like,

you picked a wrong outkest. I think we picked the right one. We're always right. We've never been wrong. All right, Cole, do you want to go over kind of like the structure of the season, the rules? We're keeping it kind of similar to other seasons, but with a few, you know, a little twist. A little twigs, yeah, it's, you know, quarter century mark. I thought he'd switch it up in season four.

So we'll read the rules for the structure of this season. It's every episode, Charles and I will each nominate one album we think should be in contention for the 21st century's best. Each album gets its own segment where we'll revisit its release, nominate its best and worst songs, and make a case for why it's considered one of the best albums of the last 25 years. Then at the end of the episode,

the two albums go head to head and Charles and I will debate until we can agree on one winning album. The winning album from each episode advances to the season finale Royal Rumble. That's where Cole and I will face off one last time, eliminating albums one by one until we crowned the greatest album

of the 21st century, the last album standing. Before we get into the season, though, Cole, let's like walk the audience through how we went about picking some of these albums because I think it's like in all the meetings we had, it was a mixture of what albums are we fans of, but what also are cultural touchstones or albums that are big enough?

Because I think every single time that we've talked about last long standing, we kind of use that. If a Martian comes down, to earth what is going to be the song that would explain an artist the best? And I think we kind of use a similar framework for albums. I think so. I mean, it's an impossible task. And, you know, I think part of this was condensing the genre focus. So you'll see with our selections throughout the season that it's mostly in the dissect wheelhouse of hip hop and R&B, although I am excited

that we have a few episodes that are totally outside of those genres. Some rock, some electronic, a little pop. And then we also have some, you know, some stuff. where we can get our little picks in where it's like there are a lot of albums that we discuss where we're like these are personal favorites for us but we also want to be real like sometimes just because an album is great and perfect and special like usher's confessions yeah it could be a little you know some of the newer kids might be like look at oh i would love to talk about usher's confessions for an hour i'm not yeah well we're going to save some of those personal picks for the stinger for the cultural exchange so stay tuned for that at the

the end of the episode. But yeah, I think, I mean, I have no problem focusing on hip hop and R&B because in my mind, as a music historian, hip hop and R&B is the most, this is the most important genre of the century. Yes. I think the most interesting things are happening within that space. So if this was, we were doing this show in the 90s, if they had podcasts in the 90s, I think it probably would have been a lot more rock focus. But since we're talking about, you know, the quartermark of the 21st century to your point, you, you really can't tell this story without telling the rise of hip hop. And I think a specific specific types of hip hop finally becoming the genre that rules over not only the charts, but just like culture in

general, movies, TV, everything. Exactly. So do we want to kind of get into our first, our first two albums for doing? I've got a nervous. Very far. It's kind of a cursed episode. But we're just jumping right in. I'm going to go with unarguably one of the greatest albums of the 21st century, probably one of the greatest albums of all time. Kanye West, my beautiful dark-tousted fantasy. I, to no one surprise, is going with Kanye's front of me, the light-skinned goat himself, Drake's sophomore album, take care.

They're going to schools closed, the Britain's open. Have a toast for the douchebags. Let's have a toast for the assholes. She looked like a star. Hands to the constellation. The way you look should be your sin. You my sensation. All right, Cole.

We, I think we, what I want people to understand, especially as we go through this season, is that we try to actually be as intentional as possible with the pairings of albums we're choosing. And definitely I wanted to not only kind of tell a story about the 21st century, but sometimes a story about these artists. So to you, why do you think it makes sense to pair Kanye, Drake, my beautiful. Dark Twisted Fantasy would take care. I mean, arguably, it's painful to say, but I mean, I think these are the two artists that had arguably the most influence on the genre in these past couple decades. Yeah. I think unequivocally, Kanye, yes, but we have to give Drake his credit too in terms of

setting hip-hop on a totally different trajectory. And I think these are two massive, highly influential artists that also share some of the same flaws. and as their legacy has continued, obviously there's been kind of diminishing returns on both of them. So it seems like a natural pairing. Also, obviously, Drake is a child of Kanye, very much so. I think Take Care shows some of the influence of, you know, in my mind, at this point, 2010, 2011 in hip-hop,

we're starting to move away from the kind of maximalism that reached its pinnacle in Twisted Fantasy. Or I would even say reached his pinnacle and watch the throne where that was like the album that Connie has revealed they were trying to kind of like go again not go against Drake but show that like hey we still

are here and take care is one where I'm just like is almost is maximalist in a lot of ways but sonically is a departure yeah I mean to me take care is perfect for this exercise because it is a bridge album between the two sounds because from this point on with nothing one that's the same his following

album the Drake sound really starts to dominate mainstream hip-hop and we go away from the maximalism and into this minimalist like underwater sound that Drake and 40 really helped develop it and push through. So the pairing makes sense in my mind. It makes sense in my mind as well. And I think we're going to get this out up front. The reason I also think that these projects make sense to talk about is because you can't really talk about the 21st century without discussing the effect that it's had on our biggest artist. And I think with Dark Fantasy and Take Care, both albums narratively, I think,

are dealing with the struggles of celebrity culture, celebrity culture at the dawn of social media, and obviously Kanye has had a rough stretch. And we are not here to celebrate all of the hateful things he said, but I do think that like, when I went back to listen to Dark Fantasy, I was like, oh, this was the beginning of an end where this is the type of album that's so good that it literally gave him over 10 years of goodwill where we were kind of just like, no, that's not really Kanye. That's not really Kanye. And now we're like, no, that's Kanye. And I think take care in a similar way is an album where I would put Take Care in this because the internet, you're starting to get all these artists who are coming of age in an age of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, starting to come to grips

with this hyper alienation of constantly being in connection with each other, knowing what your fans think of you, everybody thinks you constantly. And while I think this is a celebration of the music of that time, I wanted to be up front. Like, both of these artists in different ways are very fraught. And we know that. Yeah. I mean, with, Honey especially, I think for this exercise, it's more about trying to remove ourselves from the bullshit and like, we're looking historically at the past 25 years. And so everyone that knows anything about music understands Connie's important. So are you familiar with the composer, Ricard Wagner? He's the German composer.

You've probably heard Right of the Valkyries. Oh, yeah, no, you've played me some on past seasons. Yes, yes, yes. Essentially, I'm starting to view Kanye more and more like him because Wagner was the most important composer and musician of the 20th century. He was also a rabid anti-Semite. And so historically, it's like it's the same thing where it's like you have to credit the contribution to music, but it also comes with the baggage of some mental health stuff, some racism, all this. So it's complicated, but I think we're here. I think listeners will understand why it's here,

why we're talking about these albums, especially Kanye. And so again, I also think lastly, I think what listeners will hear is that, like, to me, for the future of music,

I do think it is important to, like, go back to projects and be like, okay, because there's a lot in these projects where, I'm like, oh, this is way more misogynistic

or this is way more, like, when we were listening to it back then, I think it was like, oh, this isn't how they really feel. This is just right. go back. Oh, okay. So we probably...

I know that's the interesting thing about both of these artists is because it's so many ways, especially early on in their career, they pushed masculinity and hip hop in a new direct... Yeah. Kanye was outspoken about, you know,

or the queer community in terms of like we should hip hop needs to be more accepting in the queer community. Drake showed vulnerability in a genre that was hyper masculine and he wasn't afraid to sing and show emotion.

And then it's like, now 10, 15 years later, we're just like, what happened? What happened to the vulnerability? What happened to the sensitivity? I think the vulnerability and the sensitivity was important, but it definitely led to insult. Like, I'm just like, these records at that time did not sound very insol-y, but there are moments where I'm like, oh, this is where it's like patient zero for everything. But now that we got through that, it's time for our first deep talk.

All right. We got to go with the first album. Let's start with 2010's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. I'll start with just some basic album facts on Twisted Fantasy, released on November 22nd, 2010. Sells 496,000 copies in the first week, which may be lower than Drake's Take Care, which, shockingly, wins three Grammy Awards, essentially universal acclaim, spawns four official singles and power, runaway monster, and all the lights. And I think the conversation with this record has to start as much as I don't want to talk about it. It has to start with the VMAs. Yo, Taylor, I'm really happy for you.

I'm going to let you finish. But Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time. One of the best videos of all time. The Taylor Swift Instant spawns this entire album. I don't know if you remember your reaction to the VMAs. Do you remember in real time all the hoopla that happened after? I'm not proud to say this, but at this time, I was just like, I was such a hyper connie.

I was like, yo, fuck Taylor, who cares? That was me too. I was like, who cares? Because also, I will say this. There was a level of racism undergirding the whole moment where I was just like, no, Connie is an asshole.

Connie was an asshole for doing that. I would admit that. I admitted that then. I admit it now. He was drunk. He should not have done that. He took away Taylor's moment. But there was a level of me

where I was like, A, this is the VMAs. And y'all are acting like, is the Nobel Peace prize. You know? I was just like there was a moment where I, I don't know if you remember, it was on the news. People were ready to kill him. It was like, but this was also to me around that time where the media actually did not,

the media never knew how to discuss very famous black people. But like Dave Chappelle was going through something very similar. Right. He wanted to go to Africa. People were acting like, how dare you? And I just remember like as a young. hip-hop fan being like, the punishment does not seem to fit the not crime, you know? I liked, I loved it actually, just if I'm being honest. And in the moment, I was like, yeah,

fuck the VMAs. Like, we need some anarchy in here. Like, it was exciting. Like, that was part of Kanye's appeal back then was that he would do stuff like that and he would shake it up a little bit. I mean, it's so funny to think back now how much backlash he got for it versus everything since. This doesn't even craft the top five or top ten most egregious things Kanye has ever done. I feel like we forget that it even had. Like before you were like, oh, we got to talk to Taylor. And I was like, oh, the Taylor incident. How quaint.

Okay. How quaint? This was something that we were getting mad at coffee. Yeah, exactly. But, I mean, it does shape this entire album. So like you said, like it caused national controversy. He flees the country, literally. Goes to Japan.

Goes to Italy. Goes to Rome. Ends up settling in Hawaii where a lot of twisted fantasy was recorded. He goes through an incredibly dark period here. I mean, he's drinking at the VIII. VMA's, he's still living in the hangover of his mom's passing. Yeah. I think a lot of, I don't think the VMA moment happens if, if his mom doesn't pass because he definitely, there's a tailspin after that incident, especially if you know the relationship between them and him or her being really the only grounding person in his life and the only person that can really talk sense to him.

And so we get the tailspin of romantic breakup, of mother's passing, and then this huge incident. and he's essentially exiled from the country. And he said, was very open about having suicidal thoughts at the time. And essentially made this album, he has said this, as if his life depended on it. And so, you know, you can hear that in the music. You can hear it in the approach in terms of just like someone hyper-focusing on every single detail of every single song and making an album so good that he was going to, essentially ingratiated himself back into the public consciousness by just making phenomenal music.

And to his credit, he succeeded. Do you remember the, do you remember like the rollout, which I think was also part of the journey of, we got Good Fridays where Kanye would like drop tracks in real time, Christian Denham Dior Flo, we would hear power. We heard the remix about it. We heard all of these. And then just there was this great complex. interview where Noah Noah who was running

complex at the time went down to Hawaii to like document it and I remember just the rollout of this album feeling so important to me he even when's the last time you watched even the short movie that he did

it was just every single moment was so well thought out and they're wearing suits and there's just so much lore around the album when you return to it you know they're just for those I don't know. All the producers were required to wear suits. The Rosewood movement? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And, you know, he really had a vision of decadence for this whole thing. And that shows up in the artwork. It shows up in dressing and suits and the music videos and all the visuals. Like, he was really world-building in a way that he really hadn't before. I mean, he's always kind of world-build with the graduation series and a little bit with 808. But I feel like this is when he really starts. We see it in Yeez-is next.

Pablo next and the entire world around these albums. I think this is a large part where it comes from. But why not? Why not Yeezus would be my question? Because I would have rather picked Yeezus, but for this exercise, I was like, I feel like it has to be Dark Fantasy because it just,

dark fantasy to this day just wound so large over popular music. I think so. I think Jesus is my favorite Kanye album. It's crazy that we agree. I would have thought that you would hate that album. No, Jesus is my fate.

Like, yeah. Because I actually, everything from the rawness to the production, to everything. I actually think it's just, it's a tighter album.

Yeah. Going back to dark fantasy, I'm like, the highs of dark fantasy are very high. Yeah. But there's some choices on it where I'm just like, this is very 2010.

We've lived enough life 15 years post 2010 in this album coming out to understand its influence, it's impact. It is, it's the one. Yeah. You know, I think in terms of hip-hop production, the highs of this album I still just don't think have been met by Kanye himself and by anyone else.

I mean, there is just some of the greatest music I've ever heard. Oh, I could not agree more. But with all that being said, are we ready for our favorite section? I'm ready for some trivia. This is where Cole and I attempt to stump each other with little known facts about the album. Every correct answer is one point in whoever has the moment. most total points at the end of the season wins a mystery prize selected by our producer, Justin. Justin, do you have the prize already picked out?

I think I do. All right? I think I do. And I think they're personalized prizes for both of you. Okay. So bear with me. I'm pulling some strings. That's all I'm going to say.

I'm pulling some strings. All right. You have to give us some hints as the season goes on. I'm intrigued. Personalized gifts. Okay. Cole. Obviously, you know about Good Fridays, the classic slate of songs that Kanye was debuting every Friday.

One song he debuted, though, was done in unorthodox way, chain heavy, featuring to Libqualee and consequence. Where did Kanye debut that song live for the first time? Chain Heavy. Was it with the guys or just solo? Do you remember? Just him. He did a performance. I want to know where he performed it.

This was all over the blogs. It was written up heavily. I, like, it's like, I can see it. It's in my memory somewhere back there. Was it in Europe somewhere? It was in the Facebook offices. Oh, right. Standing on the table.

Yes. Okay. I was like that. They tried tell me my chain broke the levee. Baby, cousin's why you walk around with a baby cross his cousin? My teeth are already white. Y'all going to make me false for nothing. All right.

So my next question for you. Okay. In a classic complex interview, we got some photos. And I think even Kanye posted about studio rules. Do you remember the studio rules? I do. Yes. Now, in one of these rules, Kanye banned a specific instrument.

What instrument to Kanye banned from the studio? God damn it. I know this one too. Oh, I'm about to get them on another one. These are really good questions. was it congos or something I'll give you one more because if you

it's so obvious and if you know Kanye's like if you know what type of sound Kanye was in at that time it makes complete sense okay it's super obvious I feel like a failure now

I don't know it no acoustic guitars oh okay does that make sense that makes sense yeah I may probably make more sense back then it's such a weird rule

It's such a weird rule, but when you listen to my beautiful, dark, twisted fantasy, like, because it's, what's funny is I'm like, there's a electric guitar in here. You know what I'm saying? Mike Dean is shredding on devil in a new dress, but for him to be like, no acoustic guitar is fucking. No folksy, no, yeah, this is grand. This is majestic. What is the antithesis of that? A little dinky acoustic guitar. I don't know. Here's the thing. I know to people at home are going to be like, damn. I feel like I left people down. I'm sorry. Sorry. There's another rule, though. There's a bunch of them here, right? There's... Can you read the best rules out loud? Yeah, there's a bunch of them. There's no tweeting. It's listed twice.

Just shut the fuck up sometimes. All laptops on mute. No blogging, which no problem in 2025, but back then that was an issue. No negative blog viewing. Shout out Gawker. Don't tell anyone anything about anything we are doing. Great. No pictures. All these make sense. My favorite one here, though. No hipster hats. Oh, yeah. I remember. I remember. Yeah, no hipster this was the day, the days

of the like long deep v. necks. Wait, was this before? Wait, did the, did the hats with the doncy terrible? Like, remember when we were wearing the doncy hats with the fucking snake skin on the brim? You were wearing the wig. I never owned one. I never wait, you never had one of those hats?

No, come on. I was more of the American Apparel hipster exactly who he was probably talking about. The deep V. I was at the beanie that was pulled back. Ooh. That was all right. This is actually my last question because we have to move on. Of all of the Kanye fashion trends that he introduced, which one has aged the worst?

Because I think my personal pick, the shutter shades shades look so, like, the shutter shades shades are terrible. But they're so iconic to them. They're so iconic. Remember how cool they's like when he put those on? I was like, fuck, that's so cool. The first time when like we saw, we were like, we've never seen anything like. And now you look back at it because it was like, you go to like hot topic and then they started selling the knockoffs and it just got so. For me, it's the skinny jeans with the big shirt.

He didn't invent that style, but he really helped catapult it. And that I didn't go as extreme as him, but I was I was dipping my toes into that world and looking back, man. Oh, that was terrible. It was terrible. Well, to everyone out there, you know, I'll do better. I'm sorry, I'll do better. Let's move on. Let's move on next category. All right. For each album this season, we're running through the same five categories. Biggest song, best song, worst song, best deep cut, and best moment. At the end of the episode, these five categories from each album will go head to head in order to determine which album wins the episode and earns a spot in the season finale Royal Rumble. All right. Cole, can you take us away? First category is biggest song.

So this one was kind of tough. So what is your perception? It's either power or all of the lights. If you go by streams, it's actually power now at this moment. I don't know if streams are indicative of a 2010 album though. And power has a lot of sinks. You hear it at stadiums. You hear it on commercials.

But I want to say all the lights is the bigger song? I don't know. No, it has to be power. You think so? I will say power is, to your point, there was a moment in time. It's still happening where you could not watch a movie trailer without hearing power. Like, it is, that's the, I would say my beautiful dark twisted fantasy yeas us and watch the throne have to be some of the most synced music of the last, of the 21st century. And to me, that's why it has to be power, because to your point, I still hear fucking power at baseball games, at this, at that.

I'm living in that 21st century Doing something mean to it Do it better than anybody you ever seen If you would have told me power was going to be the song Off this album That became this ubiquitous I would have been like Really?

Well, okay, I think of why it syncs so much though Is because you get crowd chants, you get the uh-huh So it's like there's a natural crowd element and then you get the claps So it's like there's a lot of like interactive features and the production that in my mind it makes sense because yeah if you want to play it at a stadium

you can do that kind of interactive stuff if you want to sync it to a movie it has like the themes of power it's like you can just imagine it on a show like what's the HBO show Succession you know it's like it has some of those rich qualities that a lot of like

these kind of prestige TV shows like explore and so it makes sense in my mind although all the lights seem like the one that would be synced more because it is like it feels like a stadium anthem didn't at the at the time did it connie say that he wanted all of the lights to feel like um remember the world wait not remember what's the uh what's the really bad fucking um we are the world oh like he wanted to make his own version of we are the world which is funny because i'm like feel like people forget fergis on this which also dates yeah like i like black eye please i love fergi but that's when we're talking about

the choices on this album, Fergie, kind of like being on all the lights. I was like, oh, fuck. Well, okay, I wrote down, I forgot how many people are on all the lights. Speaking of like the decadence of this album and trying to make something so phenomenal that, you know,

he, that he, that he couldn't deny that, that the public couldn't deny and he'd be, get back into their good graces. Here's the list of all the features on all the lights. Alicia Keys, John Lennon,

John, Drake, Fergie, Kid Cuddy, Elton John, sings and plays piano. Ryan Leslie, Charlie Wilson, Tony Williams, Alvin Fields, Ken Lewis, and Rihanna. So it's like he's putting together this star-studded cast

just to sing backup tracks. But it's like, that's just one element. Then you think of the drums on all the lights are just like some of the best drums. And then he had a remix that he never released. Did he? Yeah, there was a remix where if I remember the line up correctly, Drake gets a rap verse.

I remember this now. Big Sean got a rap verse. And I'm almost positive Lil Wayne got a verse. Oh, wow. Yeah, and I'm like, to the decadence, I'm just like, he never released it, but I'm like, oh, there were other versions of this song. I think a lot of people are just like, yo, I've heard so many versions of all the fucking all the songs on this album apparently went through like a ton of iterations.

I was just reading the story of Runaway, which we'll probably talk about. But essentially that song transformed. Like, you hear some of the bare bones of these productions and that's the way that he kept stacking elements, playing with arrangements, bringing in other producers to work on it. I mean, every, every song was just approached with just immaculate attention to detail. And there's just like layers on layers. It's one of those albums that you're, if you're really listening with headphones,

you'll catch something new every time because it is just that layered and nuanced. Okay, but this power does bring me to my first dissectable, the most dissectable moment of the episode. Are you aware of the narrative of twisted fantasy? Very vaguely, and I've mostly forgotten. Okay, so the, like the Phoenix motif. There's the, yeah, that's part of it. You know, the fallen angel, all that stuff.

But this is kind of my theory with my season on it, but I think it's right. Because he has talked about that his albums aren't like concept albums and a Kendrick style, but they do have these like more broad narratives, like narrative arcs. And if you see the chalkboard that he did or the whiteboard that he wrote, the track listing, I think it was for this album or for if it was Life of Pablo. But he put it in acts. There's act one, act two, act three. And this is a three-act structure.

And it's in the title, my beautiful, dark, twisted fantasy lays out the actual feet, the, the acts. And it's kind of like this downward spiral. Essentially, the album is his relationship to fame, right? So the first three songs are the beautiful part of it. We get dark fantasy where he says, I used to dream about fantasize about this back in Chicago, talking about celebrity, talking about fame.

We get gorgeous. We get power. All kind of him, power is the best example of him kind of reaching that success, right? But power is also the song where it starts to fall and he kind of goes down the spiral, the Alice in the Wonderland spiral. And it's so the most dissectable moment that I'm going to point out to you, have you, this is kind of one of the more famous theories of mine. So do you know about the so exciting line? I've never heard this. So there's a, on the end of the second verse, he says, taking my inner child, I'm fighting for custody that lays out, that sets up the next song, all the lights where he talks about a custody battle with his inner child.

With all these responsibilities that they entrusted me as I look down at my diamond encrusted piece. So this sets us up for some evocations of suicide. So diamond encrusted piece is not only a necklace, it is also a dying. man encrusted piece, Jesus piece, but it also is a diamond encrusted piece as in a gun. Sounds like a reach until you go to verse three where he says, I was drinking earlier, now I'm driving where the bad bitch is out, where you're hiding, I got the power to make your life so exciting. So if you listen to so exciting, it starts to echo.

And in the echo, so exciting transforms into something else. I want to see if you can hear it. Suicide. Suicide. Okay. Which maybe still sounds like a reach until what does he say right after in the outro? Now this will be a beautiful death. I'm jumping out the window.

I'm letting everything go. So this is the moment in which everything falls out. This is the moment the sword of Damocles in the power video falls on his head. The transition from the beautiful to the dark. To the dark. Yes. And so we get what comes after death, funeral music. So we get all of the lights interlude, which I interpret as funeral music.

And what happens when you die, you see bright lights, all the lights. And so this is where we start to get the darker side of fame where Connie goes into monster and so appalled. And things get darker. Before this turns into a dissect episode, were you dissected? Did you buy my so exciting suicide homophone? I've never been more dissecting. Oh really? Okay. For real. Like, I'm actually like, not only impressed, I'm like,

fuck, like, this is, this is like, I got it live. Like, most people don't get this, you know? Yeah. That was one of the, I mean, this season, I should just say, like, this season of dissect season two is like what made dissect what it is today. It was the one that was the breakout season. And I feel like this is the kind of stuff that, when I started to discover this stuff with this album,

where I was like, fuck, Connie is really, that good. He really is thinking three-dimensionally. And it's incredible. And then I'll talk about the last act, which is twisted when we get to hell of a life and stuff. But it's when you end, like, for the listeners who don't know this theory, like listen to the album as if it is a three-act structure, as if it is a relationship, Kanye's relationship to fame, like kind of, uh, conceptualized as an actual relationship. So every time he's talking about a woman on the album, think about that not like not just as a woman but as fame and it makes a lot of sense when you when you go through it that way best song i feel like there's only one correct answer so i'm very

interested to see which is there one correct answer because i have two and i don't know i think the obvious answer is runaway but devil in a new dress is right there all right no really devil and new dress first of all people have already heard this hot take i don't like devil in a new dress Wait, what? Justin? Okay. So let me say. I've been waiting when we first, when we first announced that we were doing this,

and we first announced that we were putting these two albums head to head. I was waiting for Charles to do this take live. When he came to the ringer, the first thing that he did was a bunch of my beautiful, dark, twist of fantasy, 10-year anniversary content. I was back in 2020. And he made it. And he made me have to really buy.

I didn't know him that well. I was getting to know him. And I really had to buy into this devil in a new dress is awful theory. Whoa. It's not awful. I get that it's a good talk. It just does nothing for me. I skip it every single time.

I don't like it. Holy. That's the first thought taking the season. Holy shit. Personally, it's just, I get why people like it. But it's like the Ross first, the sample. The da-da-da-da. It's just.

Would you like it better if it was the Good Friday version? No. No. Okay, what is it about it specifically that doesn't resonate? The beat? You don't like the beat? You know, some people when they eat cilantro just taste soap. Sometimes, like, this is my cilantro.

Like, I don't know why. It's just something that hits my ears. I'm like, I don't need this. I just don't need it. But here's the thing I can say, objectively, objectively as a music critic, it is a great song. Like, I can tell when people are like, This is my favorite Kanye song ever.

It's my favorite beat. I can tell why they're saying that. Yeah. It's just not my thing. Okay. I was going to ask you is, it's going to sound outlandish. It might sound like a hot take. I was going to ask you if the Rick Ross feature was the greatest feature of all time.

The greatest feature of all time? For a very specific reason. And it's not actually Rick Ross himself or the verse that he lays down. It is the way that Kanye, I think it is the best red carpet, anyone has ever gotten, ever for a feature because when Rick Ross comes in I forget he's on the song like almost every time

and so you go through an entire song two verses in a chorus or whatever it is with Kanye then you get this and for this is another reason like why Kanye's brilliant especially at this moment this era is because anyone else

that gets this beat it just stays a lo-fi sample-based beat right and they do a verse chorus verse chorus and they get in and out and it's just your kind of classic sample-based production. But he makes this thing epic, and a lot of it is having

Mike Dean come in and play this brilliant guitar solo over... I do love the guitar solo. Over production that just doesn't... The obvious choice is not to have a guitar solo on this song, and it works so fucking well. And then you get the Ross feature, and every time he comes

in, it's just like, you're already five minutes through the song, and every time his voice comes in, I'm surprised a little, little bit. And it just, like, it's such a perfect red carpet rollout for a feature that I'm just like, has anyone given given this, like, this kind of cloud to float on? I mean, but to be fair, Connie did it on the album with Nikki, where it's like, Ross's verse on Devlin New Dress is way better than Nicky's. People might think that's a hot take, but Nikki's verse quite literally

birthed. Like, I'm not saying that's the reason she's Nikki Minaj, but that took her from like, very popping young money rapper to oh like we now need to talk about this in the greatest versus of all time I don't think Hermosa versus the greatest verse of all time it was a moment though but it was yeah it was undeniable like and that's that was her brilliance and her making the most of that moment because I don't know I don't remember the story but it's not like Kanye gave her some special she gets the same verses ever or the same production everyone

else does but I think my point about the Rick Ross verse is that Rick Ross just kind of had to show. I mean, he does a great verse, but it's like, he kind of just had to show up. Like, Kanye did all the legwork with the production. Well, that is, and here's what I will say, that's what makes actually my beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy such a great album, which is like, you would think on this album that Kanye would want to be the one in center. Right. And a lot of times, I'm like, no, when you think about the biggest moments from this album, you think about the Ross first. You think about the Nickyverse. You think about Bonnie Vair on Lost and the Wall. Like, or, and,

Push a T on Runaway. Like reintroducing reintroducing push to the world. And whenever artists talk about working with Kanye during this time, Push a T will say like, I wrote so many verses for like fucking for runaway.

And Connie's like, no, I need to be more asshole. More energy to do that. Nikki Mina is similar. She's like, I wrote so many verses for Monster. He's like, no, you need to do this. You need to do that. This is to me his best produced album. And I'm not talking about like the beats.

I'm talking about what a producer can get out Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Beautiful. Okay, so before we... Which one are you picking? Runaway or... Let's talk. But we got to talk about Runaway. Let's talk... I'll pick Runaway because it is... It's a monolith in hip-hop, I feel like. It's like...

It might be his most important song. It might be one of the best songs. I think it is one of the best songs of the 21st century. If this were a song exercise, I think this is the Kanye song we would submit. It's have a toast for the douchebags. Let's have a toast for the assholes. It's have a toast for the skumbags. Every one of them that I know

Just have a toast for the jerkos Gotta never take work off The production on this song is so unique There's really just not another I can't think of any song that is similar And it's a nine minute song I mean a lot of these songs are really long But the production is so good

That it just you'd want to hear it for that long You know usually when a song is just arbitrarily extended The producer doesn't have the chops to flesh out these ideas, then transform it midway through. The beat takes it entirely... I mean, the beat turns into a string quartet, essentially is what happens on the end.

And then for him, another unpredictable, not obvious choice for him to come in and turn his voice into an instrument. We talk about the guitar solo on Devil in New Dress. Essentially, Connie is doing a guitar solo on Runaway just using his voice. And there's something so beautiful

and moving about the abstraction and the dichotomy of the acoustic strings and this futuristic vocorder distorted sound and he's blending these these these sonics together in a way that we have just really never ever heard before and man is it's such a testament and every time every okay the singing on runaway is bad

yes it's it's terrible why does it work well all right so I will have to, we, this is why I do this podcast with you, because I like love talking about music like this. I remember, do you remember seeing him premiere this at the VMA that next year? Yeah. Where he's in the red suit. He brings out the white stage column, MPC. And he's singing. And like, look, I remember watch me, like, he's not singing this well. But to your point, seeing it live first and seeing like the pain in his voice. And like, he's, like, he. he's almost trying to ingratiate himself back into like popular American culture.

Um, that's why I think it works because I'm like, if it's sung any better, it almost robs it of its emotional core and the desperation of this guy. Like, I'm sorry, accept me back, but I'm not really.

Yeah, I 100% agree that is my thoughts exactly in terms of like, it works only because it does show you the rawness and the just, he's being vulnerable. This is a vulnerable song disguised as, I don't know, it's such an interesting, interesting concept because it's like self-deprecating. It's like him acknowledging and being self-aware about his own flaws,

but then he like celebrates it. Yep. And that's, that dichotomy is like what makes the song so great because it is, it is about accepting his own imperfections or looking himself in the mirror, but then celebrating them in a way that I think we all, you know, we all can be the biggest douchebag sometimes, you know?

And so it's like, to have this kind of anthem about that is like tangentially about the VMAs but also about Kanye himself and it's like it was such a brilliant move post VMA. Like it is the perfect response to the VMAs. Yes. It's like to be fair also as someone who worked at MTV News like I've been in the buildings. I've been behind the scenes when they're like putting together all this shit. I will say the VMAs also got a at least became more relevant.

They got like 10 years of had irrelevance. just based off Connie Interrupted Taylor him coming back to do like the My Beautiful Directors like it was a whole like mini narrative

Taylor got to profile like it's right yeah this is one of the best times of music so the biggest song power best song

runaway what's your worst song my worst song I think it's an easy we don't have to spend too much time on this I think it's clearly blame game

you call me motherfucker for long you were not wrong I was gonna do I got to blame game this time and I was just like skip. Yeah, it's that, okay, talk, that's the one long song on the album that doesn't work for me. Like, we don't need that skit at the end with the Chris Rock skit. We just, absolutely.

Chris Rock's skit is actually like the biggest, like, red flag of me of just like, no one in the studio was just like, all right, Kanye. Yeah, enough. Yeah. A lot of people pick Hell of a Life. I like Hell of a Life. Okay. Hell of a Life is a great song. That's crazy.

Okay. Because that's my, let's just go to the next category unless you have another. Soapald is maybe another, like, I like the song, Soapald,

but if we're forced to choose, I don't like Soul Paul. Okay. It's not a bad song. It's just like, it was of the Good Friday songs that were put on this. Soapal to me is like,

I think narratively it makes sense, but I think it's among the weaker. Yeah. But it's nowhere. Like, I can still listen to Soul Paul. Yeah. Yeah.

It's cool. I can't listen to blame game. I am. Yeah. Okay. So best deep cut. I'm going with hell of a life. I'm glad that you're all in agreement with a porn star.

It's like this is where he gets twisted. He gets rejected on devil in a new dress. He goes through the sadness of Runaway. And then we get Hell of a Life right after Runaway. And this is essentially him falling in love. with a porn star because he's so lonely. And it's like at the end of the song, when he's breathing heavily,

he's masturbating alone to his laptop. That's what's happening at the end of hell of the life for people that don't know. And so we're getting the doubt. He's at his lowest moment on, on. Was this one who was sending dick picks to Lisa Ann around this time? I can neither.

Sorry, guys. I don't know. Back check me back. Justin. Allegedly. Allegedly, guys.

Okay, then the final category is best moment. And I think we've already talked about it. There's so much lore around this album. I had a top five best moments. I had the power music video, which I think is so cool. Where it's just essentially a painting of Kanye and the camera zooms out. And it's like all decadent. And you see the sort of Damocles above his head.

Like it's so cool. It's such a cool video. I remember when that came out. number four is the the the rap camp mythology the lore of the studio sessions number three for me is good Friday rollout she already touched on number two for me was the runaway short film yep and I think number one has to be the VMA 2010 performance amazing yeah push your tea coming out in the samming color suit sammy color suit at the VMA's wait what's the next line what is that line who's watching who the fuck was it yeah

And what I will say is like I just have to give, can you guess what my favorite song outside of Runaway is on this album? It's not a deep cut, but I'm like, I listen to it every single time. I'm like, this is amazing. Is it gorgeous? Yeah. Yeah. Kid Cutty, Rayquan. Rayquan, another out of left field, not obvious choice.

He gets that fourth verse on the song and it's amazing. Also, like, as a kid cutty fan, I will say, I don't know what it is. Like, you can tell who Kanye's two favorite children of good music were at this time. who's definitely Kid Cuddy and Pusha T because I'm like, I've never heard Kid Cuddy sound this good. Like when he shows up on gorgeous or when he shows up on all the lights, you're like, oh, no, this is why he signed. The opening track, Dark Fantasy, is a masterpiece.

And I love the outro when the chorus comes back again. It's like he plays it for way too long, but it sounds so gorgeous and decadent. And like, you just want to hear it for six minutes. It's a masterpiece. And the contrast between the chorus and the verses is like so beautiful. okay that's the five categories I think feeling pretty good

I'm feeling pretty good we went a little long but like this album is good yeah this album is good can I go head to head with the you're out we will see so all right

Paul has made the case for my beautiful dark twisted fantasy and after the break we'll get into Drake's take care all right we are back and now we're discussing

take care Drake's sophomore album which was released on November 15th 2011 the 19th project is considered by many to be Drake's magnum opus. It features collaborations with Lil Wayne, Rihanna, the Weekend, and Andre 3000, among others. And the album's signature, Hasey and Subterranean

Sound was mainly created by executive producer Noah 40 Shibib, along with T-Min, Boy Wanda, etc., etc. Take Care spawned a whopping seven singles. Marvin's Room Headlines Make Me Proud the motto, Take Care, Hell Yeah, Fucking Right, and Crew Love. It debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, selling 631,000. thousand copies in its first week of release and the project is now eight times platinum. Crazy. Crazy. I don't think it's ever left the Billboard 200 charts, actually.

At the time of recording this, 644 total weeks on the Billboard 200. Is that longer than Good Kid Matt City? Yeah. Crazy. It's crazy. All right. So just the table setting that I think we have to do for this album is that, we had actually had a conversation where you're like, are you sure it's not, nothing was the same? And I think for a lot of people, it would be nothing was the same. But to me, take care is actually like patient zero for almost everything that would happen in larger rap, in R&B and pop. And I think that's from a cultural standpoint of before, I think a lot of times you get very hyperbolic that, oh, hip hop wasn't emotional or deep before,

Drake, and that's not true. Drake is of a very, like, he's a fan of Fonte. He's a fan of Andre and Kanye, and everything that Connie was doing on 808s and Heartbreak obviously influenced him a lot. But I think Take Care was the moment where Drake 40, the weekend and everybody who had worked on it honed what had been happening into just this massive, undeniable album. And it also comes out of what. had happened previously with Drake's debut, where it's like he comes out with so far gone,

everybody loves this album, they're like, who is this guy, he was on Degrassi, how was he creating something that's so cold and it seems like it's underwater, we don't know what's happening, and out of that, you get these massive singles, successful, best I ever had. Fast forward with Thank Me Later. Thank Me Later was a very complicated album to put together. Drake has been very, very open that he felt it was rushed. He felt like him in 40 and all of his team weren't able to give it the love and the attention

that it needed. And take care to me was this moment where if Kanye was like, I need to create a project to basically get and ingratiate me back into society, I think take care for Drake was similar in terms of like, I need to actually prove to people that like this sound is viable, Toronto was viable, that I can be more than just a pop music rapper and take care to me sounds like that because before, if Connie had good Fridays, Drake did that where it's like Marvin's Room wasn't supposed people are like, oh, Marvin's Room is the first single. Marvin's Room wasn't supposed to be the first single. He releases it on his blog spot. And that to me is so instructive of this album is where in real time he's

almost letting the fans in on the process of how do I create the drink that we would know and become throughout this whole deck. Really? Yeah. I mean, I was surprised returning to the album. So people know I'm not the biggest Drake fan. Yes.

But I want to be as objective as possible. And I texted you on my first listen of this album, which I don't listen to really ever. I was surprised how much I didn't hate it and actually enjoyed a lot. of the moments and trying to view it and listen more historically and kind of like okay this is drake the beginning of his career let's not take for granted what drake does really well and i'm trying to listen with that ear and i was so impressed with the fluidity between the rapping and the melodic work and the more traditional singing but also this gray area that he seemed to come in the game

with right away this talent to kind of sing rap in a way that we've never heard where he could just go ease I think what's the second song or no he does it on headlines where headlines starts the verses start just pretty straightforward rapping

and then he gets into this pre-chorus where it's like in between rapping and singing and then the chorus is just singing and so there's just like there's a unique fluidity that he's able to go transition from these different stylistic expressions within the same song and it's like I was trying to think like what other

artists could be on a song like take care with Rihanna and a song with Little Wayne like the motto or any of the songs with Wayne and actually hold him hold his ground and yeah I mean these are two of the massive artists with two separate skill sets and singing and rapping and he's able to to hang and stay right there with with alongside them like how many artists could actually do that. And I mean, for better and worse, I will say this. This album, I think the reason I want to pick this instead of any of the other Drake albums is Drake fundamentally changed how most artists sang. And I think it started with R&B, where it's like around this time,

most R&B up to this point was a, it was a vocal, it was a vocal genre where people are you're talking about harmonies, you're talking about runs. You think of anyone from John Legend to Beyonce. Just a good R&B artist nine times out of 10 was judge on how well they can sell they're singing. And when Drake comes in, he's almost doing like a sing talking. Yeah. Very like, we called it, it ended up becoming like bedroom pop or bedroom R&B.

And that's also what's very interesting going back to this. where it's like you take someone like Siza, Sizza to me is kind of off this branch as well where it's like sometimes she's not showing you everything she can do vocally. A lot of times she's using this in between to almost connect with the audience more and almost feel like a diary entry

instead of very much a black church. Like R&B is coming out of like the black church. And a lot of times that's what's Beyonce is so good at. When you listen to a Beyonce, we're like, oh, this is an angel. And with someone like Siza, you're just like, oh, this feels like my best friend talking about like a drunken night with a fuck. Right, right.

And like that is actually like, that comes from Drake. All right. You all, you ready for the album trivia? I am. All right. So I got two questions for you. What is the inspiration for the title Marvin's Room? It is the name of where Drake recorded this, uh,

this song. Marvin's Room is a very, very popular studio. And I want to say it's a popular studio. It was Marvin Gay, right? Yeah. It's the Marvin. Marvin Gay Studio.

Come on, man. You can't. You are a Drake fan boy. All right. One point for you. Second question. Multiple choice. Which of the following artists did not open for Drake on the Club

Paradise Tour, which was the tour for this album? Is it A? Kendrick Lamar did not. tour. B. A. A. Sop Ropke. C. J. Cole. D. Meek Mill or E. The weekend. It's in between J. Cole and the weekend. And I want to say it's J. Cole. It's the weekend. Fuck. But isn't that crazy? But I looked at it. Kendrick, Rocky, Cole, and Meek Mill all open for Drake during this time. I will say this was actually the beginning of all this beef shit. because what ended up happening is like if you like follow enough Drake music he he all these artists open for him and then he spends the next decade being like I'll put y'all on I gave you all your first tour right that's why I think a lot of the static between these artists happened because it's like oh I thought we were boys and I was just opening for you and Drake the minute he falls out then he was like see this is what they do for you when you give him a look that's what I think well it's I mean

Going back to Kendrick's interlude on here, which is so straight. Like, why is this even on the album? It's so weird. I, here's the thing. That was almost going to be my worst song because I was just like, not because it's a bad song, but more so I'm just like, it's so out of. It's so weird. It makes no sense.

And coming after Marvin's room is just, but if you listen to the lyrics of that song, especially now, it's so crazy because he's like, he's not friendly to Drake on the song. No. Once again, I was just like, these two never liked each at all. You can hear it on the song. I was just like, yeah, like. I don't know if Drake just misunderstood what Kendrick was saying. Like I just,

I look, why did Drake put this on the album? He's essentially the story of that, that is told in the interlude, Kendrick meeting up with Drake, it being this like, this is, this is Kendrick post-O.D.

overly dedicated before section 80. He gives Drake section 80. I think he said Drake was the first one he gave it to to listen to after it was complete. Drake likes it, you know, has Kendrick come out. And it tells the story of them hanging out for the first time. And Kendrick's kind of like looking around as like, okay, this is the beginning of some,

this is the beginning of I can see the future. Yeah. The whole buried alive thing is like, I can be entranced by fame. I'm about to walk into this industry into this new world and how am I going to navigate it? And he's essentially symbol. Drake is a symbol of, of that fame, of that lifestyle and like the trappings of it.

Like, Kendrick is already seeing that in Drake and wondering which way he's going to go in the industry. But I'm just like, why did, okay, all makes sense, but why is it on the album? It's so weird. I was dope when I said the music business was all I needed.

When I got it, I was greeted by alien that said last year that she slept with a Canadian and it gave him an addiction that I keep a Mercedes Benz. All right. So let's get into the categories. Okay.

Again, to recap for the listeners, we're going to go through these same categories for every album. So we're going to cover biggest song, best song, best deep cut, and biggest moment from the album. we'll start with the biggest song on Take Care is what? Biggest song on Take Care, which I was surprised about, is headlines.

And the reason I was surprised is because you texted me and you're like, wait, which song is bigger on Take Care? Headlines or Take Care. And I was like, it has to be Take Care because Headlines or Those Who Don't Know was produced by Boy 1 in 40. When it came out, I remember people being kind of like, what the fuck is this? Like, I liked it, but it was like when Drake started rapping like, like, go make me catch a body like that. We were all like, this is the sweater, dude.

Like, this was the guy up to that point. Like, can you imagine the guy who like wrote like best I ever had talking about how he loves to see his girl in the sweatpants was like in this video where he's like mobbing with Toronto gangs? It was, it was cringy. And at the, at the time, like, I love headlines. Headlines is one of my favorite songs of all time. And even I could be like crazy statement by the way.

Go ahead. Like, here's the thing. Go ahead. One light's can go to another. I understood ESP. You know what I'm saying? I might be too strung out on compliments. Overdose on confidence.

Started not to give a fuck and stop fearing the consequence. Drinking every night because we drink to my accomplishments. Faded way too long. I'm floating in and out of consciousness. And they're saying I'm back. And I know what he's talking about this song. But what I think is so interesting about headlines to me is that this is the moment where like Drake like like dips his toe into like how much acting can I do yeah and what I mean by that is like

I think Drake probably at this time was already starting to feel how claustrophobic being the sad boy R&B lover type who gets like heartbreak Drake was one of his fucking early monikers that we never say anymore and even at that time I think we could like he was like I can't be the fucking fuck boy forever. And headlines if you go back and listen to it, is him being like, wait, if I tell people I'm about to catch your body, are they really going? Like, can I still make it?

So he's testing the water. It's okay. And then once you get to like, if you're reading this is too late and everything, even with, like, we were talking about it. The new Drake single that he released off Iceman, it's fine, but like the cringiest part of that video is when he's standing in front of all the guns. And to me, it starts with headlines. It starts with all, like, Drake, you don't.

have to do this. Yeah. I mean, I don't like headlines. I will say his performance on headlines is, I think, objectively good. They don't get it. They'll be over. It's super catchy. It's super

catchy. I just don't actually don't like the beat. The beat to me... You don't like the beat? No. I don't like... The beat is great. To me, it's like, that that beat to me is like trying to do what Twisted Fantasy did. It's kind of still, we can hear the kind of remnants of that maximalist sound that was so popular

in the late 2000s and early 2010s, but it never really reaches the kind of crescendo or the production doesn't fill out in a way that I think it could have and maybe it was because it was rushed, like you said, but something about the beat just doesn't, I don't know, Justin, are you a fan of the headlines beat? I was at the time, and now I think it just sounds so dated.

Yeah. I mean, like, I think, again, I know we're not putting the albums head to head right now. We're talking about it, but to me, in case I don't get a chance to say this again, when I was revisiting these two albums, It was kind of striking to me how much of the beautiful dark crucied fantasy production sounded really timeless.

Yeah. Where a lot of the take care stuff sounded really tethered to that moment. Yeah. No, I, you guys are like wrong, okay? Headlines is age perfectly. It's a great song. And I will not hear any Drake Slander. We've had a year of it.

Okay. Okay, but I agree with Justin, not you. But I will say the moments that do feel timeless on this album, I think, are represented in its best song. What of it is the best song? To me, and you're going to kill me for saying this, I think not only the best song of this album, but I would put this in the top 10 most important songs of the 21st century so far is Marvin's room. I agree. Where do I even begin with this song in terms of just like this was not supposed to be single?

When he released it on the blog, I think it was just kind of like, hey, these are kind of some of the Lucy's that I've been working on. there was a song called Club Paradise. I think the actual first song that was, that was kind of leading us into this phase, was called Dreams and Money Can Buy, which samples Jay Paul. But when we get to Marvin's room, I think that this was

the best example of what Drake did so well at this time, which is taking a feeling that everyone has had, which was, I'm really, really drunk, I'm doing stuff I shouldn't do, do. I'm calling this woman. I'm like, she's leaving angry voicemails. But he had packaged it in such a way that had never really, to me, been packaged before, especially in rap, which was like, it's so vulnerable. And it's almost like, if you go back to the reviews at the time, people are it's like, this is like reading someone's diary. This is like, like the most awkward moment that you could have.

And like traditionally, rappers aren't supposed to be that. Rappers are supposed to be able to get any woman. that they want. They're not supposed to be famous and still begging at the end of the night. And it's funny thinking of a world where Drake goes more in this direction, where more sing- because I think actually, like, his performance on the song is pretty good. Like, Drake isn't the strongest singer, but he knows exactly what this song needs. And after this, so much of R&B that you go, like, that would come out, whether it's Bryson Tiller, a Bryson Tiller or a Black or a Siza, to me that this was the song that kind of showed people like, oh, this is how we're going to sing about love in the 21st century, love that is so, like, we're texting constantly, we're constantly on Instagram,

we're constantly monitoring each other. This is Drake. I don't think, to me, honestly, I don't know if Drake has ever really topped this moment R&B-wise in his career. He's had better singing moments. I don't think he's had a better package. I agree. And I think production-wise, this feels like the crystallization of that sound that they,

correct me if I'm wrong, but they are kind of been working towards. And so far, this album in general is experiments with a lot of sounds. And I think it gets refined as his career goes on. And this feels like they found something with this song. Because it feels like the best representation of that kind of quote-unquote underwater. sound. And what I like about the song is that it serves a kind of thematic purpose because it does put you in this place where you're hearing music. Maybe you're in the bathroom of a club and you're hearing the music from a distance and you're kind of drunk and things are just like washy.

And like the song feels like a piece of theater to me because you get the back and forth with the phone call and it all works like very well. And to your point, Drake knows exactly he's an actor, so he knows how to give that kind of performance that works emotionally, but also there is that there's theatrics to the song. I do have some questions about the song, unless you wanted to say anything, did you have any more points? No, all I want to say in terms of just the sound, I actually got a chance when I was working at writing for Rolling Stone to go to Toronto and interview Noah 40 Shabit and produce this project. Noah is not only just a great producer, but he's also great, he's a great engineer in mixing. And I think this is a perfect,

this is a perfect example of, to your point, marrying the production with the mixing elements of when we talk about the 40 sound, we all, people call it subterranean, people call it underwater, but a lot of that is in the mixing. It is in, they'll just like, oh, we are going to make this seem like it's muffled a little bit. Taking all the high end out. Yes, exactly. That is what kind of makes this song work, because if it was mixed just like a traditional R&B song, I think people wouldn't like it as much. It would almost be too raw

and too embarrassing, but because they like put it on, they present it in such a way, you end up feeling like Drake. Instead of it feeling like, oh, like I'm listening to Drake tell me a story. When you listen to this song, you're like, oh, I, like, you're in the scene.

Yeah, you're in the scene. So what are your questions? Okay. I just, I highlighted. I highly the fact that this iconic chorus is what he sings is really funny when you look at it fuck that N word that you love so bad

Let's Fuck that nigger That you love so bad Woo! Like it just gives me chills Gives he chills This is like his mother I sober Bidger

Bidges in my home phone There's a wait there's a line On the new drink and P&D record Where he's like, he tells a story about how one of Lil Durk's homie was like just killing people in Chicago, listen to Marvin's room, which is like the funniest thing about the song. Because if you know any guys in the streets and you're just like, what's some of your favorite music? They're like, yo, Marvin's.

The amount of tough guys. Which is slayer by the song. A single tier running down. Okay. Do you like the rap verse on this song? No, it's embarrassing. Like, like, I like it in, like, I think it, I think it works in, in terms of just kind of like this song. But no, it's better.

Like there's, I will say, the two worst bars on this are the, uh, Asian girls let the lights dim song. That's not on this, but that's one of the worst on the entire album. And then the line he has on this about the white girl saying the head word. Okay. Did we go on being in some trouble? He's, I'm like, it's funny, but I'm like, why is this on this? Okay. that was my next question because, well, I had to point at the laugh out loud moment of the rap verse

when he says, I've had sex four times this week. I could say, why he's saying that? Wait, no, wait. So I've always been confused by that line because the way he sings, he's like, I've had sex four time this week. I'll explain. I'm like, is like for a lot? Like, is he like explaining someone's like, no, usually it's more. But like, like, like, is he being like, oh, I'm a whore. I've had sex four times. That's got, that was my reading of it. Yeah. Is this with the same woman? Because if it's with the same woman, that's not bad. If it's with four different women,

if you're Drake at this point, also still not that bad. Right? I guess so. I don't know. I don't live that life, Charles. So the other question was about the outro. So what,

why is, what is this outro? Just thought while I hold your hurt back. Her wife friend said, you niggas crazy. I hope no one heard that. Yeah. I hope no one heard that.

Because if they did, we gone, be in some trouble. Why is that there? Because here, if we're going to be honest, right? For Drake, part of the Drake experience

is that he's cringy. Light skin people are cringy. Light skin men from Toronto are cringy. And I think that when I went to Toronto for the first time and I saw that everybody in the city

either look like Drake or the weekend. That, like, that outro, I was just like, that explains it. Where, like, there were, it was like a skeleton key of Drake, like, going to the city being like, oh, yeah, this is a city of Drake. Nothing against Toronto, the most, one of the most beautiful cities I've ever been to. But I was just like, oh, yeah, somebody should have just been like, hey, yo, like an American should have just walked in the room like, hey, oh, Drake. This song is perfect.

We're not putting that one. It's just so random. Okay. What is the worst song? Worst song? All right. Worst song. I love this song.

I love this song. Okay? But what he does on this is literally like sacrily, like, is just like sacrilegious. I practice the song where he basically remakes Juvenile's back that ass up into a bedroom R&B pop jam is like, nigger, no. Like, no. Like I listen to it. I like it. Because I'm just like, this is a fuck boy shit.

Justin, you're looking at me like you guys. I think that this is the clubhouse leader for the worst song on any album that we cover this season. I just, I think this is, I think practice. And I'm, you know, there are people who love the song. Great. I'm happy for you. Live your truth. This is a terrible song on every level.

Girl, you look good. Want you back that ass. I'm fine. Is this hurting me? Big Daddy want you back that ass up. Girl, who was you playing with back that ass up? Is this hurting me because I want to defend it? I want to, like, I can tell that money got you working.

We've been talking for so long. Ooh! I used to play this song so much. And as someone who has, like, listen to more music and, like, I love juvenile. People were just like, who's the top 50, like, rappers of all history? Juvie is in there. Juvenile did not deserve this. You can't touch a perfect song like back that ass up and make it.

It sounds so crazy. Like when you listen to this song in 2025, what was your thought process called? This song in 2025? Yeah, practice. By the time I reached practice on this album, I was exhausted. You were exhausted. I was so ready for it to be done. And this album falls off a cliff on the last handful of songs.

So I got to be, I'm right there. Was this, was this your worst song? My worst song was Lord knows. The Just Blaze beat. All right. So if I can defend. Okay. Lord knows is one of my favorite songs on this project.

But it is because of the beat. I think I love the Just Blaze beat. I love Rick Ross on the Just Blaze beat. Drake sound, I thought. Drake sounds so out of, like, just like he's not meant to be on this. Exactly. That's it. It doesn't work for me at all.

But I couldn't make it the worst song because I liked the production and I like Ross's verse so much where I was like, but this was also during a time where I was like, there was a transition point with Drake where I think Drake got better at like the fucking faux tough guy. Cosplay. Yeah. Cosplaying the tough guy shit.

Yeah. But here his voice is still very young. It's still very just like, you're still from the grassy, bro. You can't, I don't say, like Jay would sound great over this beat. You know, Ross because he has a thicker, like just tone to his voice sounds great.

Drake out of, best deep cut though. Okay. I don't even know if you, could call this a deep cut. But cameras. She looked like a star, but only on camera look like I care. Produced by 40.

It samples John B's calling on you, which is just like hilarious to sample John B. Shout out John B. You have a lot of great music. But it was like cameras to me is the record where it's like, what do you think of what I think of my college experience, what I think about like, hey, going to certain parties. cameras is the song when it came on everybody's like yeah that was cameras to me I think is to me like my favorite song off this record wow yeah it is I don't know what it is just it is it is cameras an embarrassing choice no I don't I don't think so I actually I like underground kings I understand

what you guys are saying I think it's the just blaze beat I think it's Rick Ross um sorry lord knows I like underground kings I like that whole stretch of the record if I'm being honest I really like it. Underground Kings is great. Lord knows is great. I don't know if the Nicky record aged as well as I would play. It's kind of out of pocket. And the one with Little Wayne and Andre 3000. I'm not counting that in the stretch that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That song is not my favorite. If you can get Andre, I don't know, just seemed like a waste of a feature. So I did my very best. I'm glad you picked cameras because I did my very best to find a dissectable moment for. you, Charles. I read through every single line of this album. I promise you, I read through every single

line of this album. And so my most dissectable moment does come from cameras. It is the line. I could be your night in shining armor all tires. It gets better though. Can you not be an asshole? I'm trying. I'm trying my best. I am trying my best. Okay. I could be your night. and shining arboral tires. Girl, they love me like, I'm Prince, like the new kid with the crown, bunch of underground kings,

thought you knew how we get down. Okay. So nice knight, prince, king scheme, right? Ties together those three lines beautifully. That is great writing. Just technically great rap writing. Knight Prince Kings. Prince, triple entendre.

Prince, as in a literal prince, because he says, I'm the new king, with the new kid with the crown. playing on a son of a king. Prince being the literal prince. The artist formerly known as Prince, his name in Purple Rain is the kid. So like the new kid with the crown.

So I think that's a reference to Purple Rain and Prince's character in Purple Rain. The third layer, because he says a bunch of underground kings, Prince is also a reference to Jay Prince, who was associated with UGK, mentored Pimp C, UGK, obviously, underground kings. Drake and J. Prince have a connection. Exactly.

So we got a triple entendre. We got a nice motif in the night prince king scheme. Nice job, Drake. Are you dissected? Not only was I dissected, I feel like you missed one of them. Okay. Purple Rain, Underground Kings, UGK, lean. Oh.

Potentially? I like it. Did I get you? I think so. I've been dissected. Hell yeah. And it would be on a Drake album. It would be on a Drake album.

All right, best moment. I have two. Okay. I need an ISO moment just shot for me. Shot for me to me is like actually like a perfect song. That I made it. Yeah, I made it. First I made you who you are and then I made it.

And you're wasted with your latest. Yeah, I'm the reason why you always getting faded. Take a shot for me. It's also a weekend song where I But I think Take a shot from me Oh You're saying weekend wrote that

I am almost positive weekend This was one of the batch When I was when I was in Toronto I got to ask Noah 40 about the weekend Because a big thing that A big controversy around that time is The weekend was also coming out

coming up out of Toronto. He had a release House of Balloons. There was obviously a Drake connection. Crew Love is also one of the biggest songs off this record. And a lot of people claimed that the weekend was responsible for this record in terms of just like even the weekend. I can hear it. Yeah. Yeah. The weekend was essentially like a lot of this music was supposed to be on my debut. And I feel like I gave it away to them. Oh, wow. And when I went up to, Toronto, 40 was like, hey, yo, all respect to those guys, they contributed to a couple records. Like, that has always been overblown.

But I think what people are always talking about when they listen to something like shot for mere crew love is that I think also the skeleton cleave for unlocking the R&B on this record was the weekend. Because the weekend was coming up at this time where, obviously, Toronto was trying to transform into a powerhouse, hip-hop R&B-wise in the same way Atlanta or Chicago or New York or L.A. was. And I think because the weekend is a better classical singer, a lot of times he can sell some things that it takes Drake a lot more work to do. And when you listen to Shot for me, when you listen to Crew Love, I'm like, I can see how Drake

could hear that and be like, oh, I can mimic that. Versus like on Marvin's Room, this is no shot at Marvin's Room. the production, the mixing, the mastering has to do a lot of work to hide the fact that Drake isn't the strongest at like holding a note. Right, right. Or like there has to be a lot of auto tune. And like shot from me as a perfect example of just like why Drake works so well with someone like Abel, someone like party next door.

He's great at hearing great writers and he's hearing great at hearing good melodies. But sometimes it takes somebody in the back being like, no, this is how you sing it. this is how you're going to do it. And just shot from me is one of just like my favorite moments. And then that's just quickly. That is that is like the sliding doors version of Drake's career that I'll just never understand because it does seem like he could have been a la Kanye. Drake has a great ear.

Yeah. But he never was able to become that kind of grand, the maestro behind the scenes and make, because I feel like he has the ear. I don't know why he's. that never really came to fruition, but like I see a world in which he does follow that thread more and he does architect more than

he does now. Because to your point about all of this, like he does recognize great melody. He does recognize great cadences on flows. Like he's really great acting cosplaying other people. So there's a world in which all those things synthesize and him being

the puppeteer above it all. But I feel like he always wanted the credit. Like he was always like he wanted to be the guy. He didn't want to go the Kanye route. So that's why he hid the ghost riders. That's why you know what I mean? I think what I think always happened is like I think take care is a,

is a beautifully produced album in terms of like in the same way that we're talking about. Like Kanye was so great at like kind of understanding what made his collaborators great. I think this is a project where Drake can see something. Even if we don't like the Kendrick song, like he sees something in Kendrick. He sees something in Ross. You see something in Wayne that he can kind of put them, same thing with the weekend, but I think Drake always wanted to be considered like the next Jay-Z. So that's why his music becomes a lot more rap forward. It comes a lot more braggadocious and, oh, I'm the leader of this big movement.

I'm the boss of my city, the six or whatever. And the sliding doors moment is like, what if he just is like, hey, I'm really, really, like, because would we, would anybody have been mad? do you think Kendrick actually would have been mad on songs like King Kunta about Drake using ghost writers if Drake was always like, no, I'm more of a producer in the Kanye mold. I think so. That was, I mean, I think Kendrick has said this directly in interviews, not, didn't reveal it was about Drake, but essentially it was saying like, yeah, it's fine if you're going to go that route, just be transparent about it.

It was more of the fact that he hid and was trying to take credit for it where, yeah, I don't think any of us would have, I think the public perception would have, I think we would have easily accepted that about Drake. Yes. Like 100%. I think we would have championed it. I think so too. Yeah.

You are like one of Connie. So what he should do. That's yeah. Like that's how you molded your career. Yeah. I actually think we, we wouldn't have had the Kendrick beef. We wouldn't have the meek beef. The push a tea beef.

I think push a tea, meek, Kendrick, what all of them were saying is is that like, wait, you can't have it both ways. Yeah. Drake can't claim that he's the goat and the number one rapper and he's better than all of us. if he has a camp behind him. Right. Because also what I think is, I'm like, Drake is actually a really, really talented writer.

Yeah. I think like we wouldn't know. But I'm like, there's a difference between being a great melodic writer and being someone like a push a tee or Kendrick where it's like, no, no, no. Every word that's coming out of my pen is my pen. Right.

You can't compare me to this dude who's like, in the same way I'm like, Connie's, Connie can write some great lines. Yeah. He's a good rapper. He's not a lyricist, though. There's a difference. There's a difference.

Yeah. I can't believe you got me to show. And lastly, my last, like, best moment is, like, stuff that just didn't make the album. I think part of this club paradise, streams money can buy, trust issues, all of the music that came before this, to me is still incredible. And I just wanted to shout it out. But is there a cultural moment outside? So we did, like, the VMAs for Twisted Fantasy.

Is there an iconic moment that related to this album? outside of it like that? I probably didn't explain it well enough, but like the cultural moment was the lead, was those songs because he was dropped. There were moments where I remember Marvin's room, he just drops it. And then within the span of like a couple weeks, it becomes a radio single. He drops trust issues. A bunch of people like cover it too, right?

A bunch of people cover, like trust issues is a perfect example of like Justin Bieber was covering trust issues. Like what you're going to call Chris Brown was covering. Marvin's room. So what actually was happening in real time is like similar to Good Fridays where you could see Kanye kind of being like, we rewrite history.

A lot of Good Fridays was Kanye being like, wait, what do people want? Testing the waters, for sure. Yeah, testing the waters. And I think we didn't have a name for it, but Drake was testing the water. It's like, oh, they like Marvin's room? Oh, you like trust issues.

Oh, you actually like, I don't think we get as much singing on this record if he doesn't drop a, like, of these records before and him being like, oh, okay. Like, you guys like this more laid back. Because this is also what we didn't talk about. This is a very slow plotting. Like, there's a big moment, like, underground kings that kind of like hype you up. But a lot of the songs in this are just very like mid tempo. Just kind of like lulling you into this almost quicksand of R&B. So I think the cultural moment was like, Club Paradise. Like, oh, that's not even making

the album, but we get care package like years later in a bunch of those songs. If you look at the streams, you're like, people still love that era of his. So yeah, that was, that would be one of my best moments. But with that, I think, uh, is ready to go? The first head to head of the season. Yep. All right. All right. It's time now to put take care of twisted fantasy head to head. Remember the goal this season is to crown the best album of the 21st century so far. Right now, Cole and I must decide whether Take Care of Twisted Fantasy advances to the season finale Royal Rumble. To do this, the five categories we discussed for each album will now be going against each other, meaning Twisted Fantasy's biggest song goes against Take Care's biggest song,

Twisted Fantasy's best song versus Take Care's best song, etc. One point will be awarded for each category win and the most total points win. Producer Justin is going to be our referee and scorekeeper. will have no longer than two minutes to debate each category, Charles. You ready? Yes, and I'm going to be honest. We might, like, we're going to need two minutes for a lot of the other pairings, but we can actually, like, a lot of these.

I don't actually think we need to do it. Like, maybe you're wrong, but like, if we take biggest song, biggest on, like, power to headlines, there is no, like, you don't even have to argue. Like, there's no way, there's no world. You can tell me headlines is a better song. You don't think so? Am I wrong? If you're not putting up a fight, I'm not going to argue.

I don't want to be like, oh, well, I'm going to be like headlines. Justin, do I need to like waste people's time? Am I wrong? We've gone over a little. We can just, we can just wrap it up. Okay, let's honor the format. Because I do think it is going to be more interesting when the albums are a little bit closer. Yeah.

So best song was runaway versus. Runaway versus, wait. Marvin's room. Oh, Marvin's Room. Actually, I think that this is interesting. It is interesting. I think there's a clear winner, but I think they're closer than... They're closer.

In terms of influence impact? Do you think there are equal influence impact? I actually don't think runaway is that... Influent. I think runaway is a better song. I don't think it's influential. Yeah, you're right. I think Marvin's Room is incredibly influential.

I think if you take Marvon, it's like a Jenga piece, if you take Marvin's Room out of just the history of music in the 21st century, collapses. For best song, what I think we should debate now, are we awarding just in a vacuum, what is the best song? Or are we rewarding what's the more important to the 21st century? And I don't know. Yeah, I think the argument for runaway being influential, quote unquote, I wouldn't say,

I would say no one's been able to recreate or even kind of come close to mimicking that sound. However, it was the song that one, I do think, without Twisted Fantasy, does, does, or without Runaway, does Twisted Fantasy have that impact that we, we now know it does in terms of like Kanye,

him performing at the VMAs, having that moment with Runaway and him making this apology song and it being the one song that he comes back with post VMAs. I see the influence, I see Kanye's career without Runaway going a little bit differently. But I think your point to Marvin's room is really valid in terms of like, it is the most influential. And I do agree with the Jenga metaphor there because I do, it was immediately impactful.

I think people immediately recognize this is something important in a way that, and that influence has persevered and even helped kind of crystallize the sound that Drake would then become even more known for going forward. Runaway is clearly the better song. But I think in this category, just to mix it up, let's give, let's give Drake the point. So it's not a total sweet. I can't believe I disagree. There's no world where I can even, like when people like listen to this, for me to be like Marvin's room is a better song. Okay.

Like it's like, is it just going to be a clean sweep then? Okay. Worst song. It's not. It's not. But I will just say run away. It has to be runaway.

Like we have respect. I was trying to give Drake a point. Worst song. Run. Or, uh, blame game. I think blame game is worse.

I think blame game is worse than the practice. And this is why. Chris Rock. The Chris Rock. outro is bad. It's like, it, it stinks. It stinks. I'm fine with that. Justin, is that fair? The Chris Rock outro is unlisted. Like, practice is bad. The Chris Rock outro is unlistenable. I did just say that practice was going to be the worst song. That that was going to be a meteor that struck the whole planet once as we had to put it on. I have like a soft spot in my heart

for a blame game up until that outro. Okay. The outro was just, from day one has just been awful. The production on Blame Game is good. I like the production. I just don't like Connie's Verses. I don't like the John Legend hook. It's just not for me. Yeah, let's, I think that, here's the thing.

I think there are more people out, let's go with the populace take, because I think there are more people out there that are going to ride for practice than there are a blame game, even if that's not my personal take. I think that in the worst song category, this is the one where Charles and Drake prevail.

So, congrats on that. Congrats on your moral victory. So, Connie is up to can Drake come back? Best Deep Cut, Hell of a Life versus... Hell of a Life versus Cameras. Cameras is a better song, the Hell of Life. Do you think so? Yeah.

I might be wrong, but I feel like people might actually be like, yo y'all didn't pick cameras over hell of a life just in terms of like there's an entire video of like of drake at a party playing it that was just like you could not go anywhere on tumbler or twitter or it's without seeing this fucking dumb video have you ever seen it it became it became a whole thing like cameras to me is actually a perfect song and hell of life I love hell of life but cameras to me is like you can still play that at a party and people be like even now when like no one wants to play drag you can play cameras at a party right now people like shit, I gotta give it to him. Fine, I'll give you the point. Best moment. Wait, no, no, argue for hell of a life. If you think hell of the life is just so much better. I think it's clearly better.

Really? The production alone is phenomenal. No. What? No. The bass synthesizer on that song and whatever that sparkly sample is. Maybe I'll live a hell of a. It's so good.

Oh, yeah. No. Can I just also say that like the things that Kanye is doing lyrically on Hell of a Life might actually be the most interesting things that he's discussing on that entire album where he's running like the prism of, he's running race through the prism of his porn addiction is like kind of the entire. I mean, it's fucked up and it's messy. but it is actually like a supremely Kanye moment and I think it's actually kind of genius some of the things he's doing on that song. All right, really, really quick,

we can cut this, but like I just wanted just before we pick, can you just play me hell of a life real quick? Let's play a hell of a life. Just play me 15 seconds of hell of a life and then play me cameras because this is going to be because like actually Justin might have swayed me.

Come on, dude. Whoa! And if we run trains me y'all in the same game, runaway sleighs all on a chain game. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Okay, this song's phenomenal. I was underselling it. I need to put a bit more of a fight. I'm a push-over Charles.

No, no, play cameras now? It's actually... I'm playing cameras. Oh, hell of a life is a fucking joy. Fast for a little bit. Is the click about the row? We ain't got to run into nobody. They already know.

We've been living on. They've been talking to love But it's cool I know you hide it all before that's why I ask you how you're made How you mean? It's clear. It's my soul. Go to the chorus.

But only on the camera Look like we're in love. Okay. Okay. So. All right. It's hell of a life. It is hell of a life.

It's so clear. It's hell of a life. It's clear. Once you played them both because I was just like, I forgot how crazy the production is on that. Like, it's one of the best produced. Like,

Yeah, I need to put up more of a fight I'm gonna push over It's hell of a life It's all of a life It's easily I just want to say Playing those two back to back Was very much like

The H-bomb versus the coughing baby meme Guys Hey yo To all my Aubrey's Angels out there I tried but it's like y'all hurt Even just both When you played them I was like

Yeah I was like All right best moment I think it's clearly All of the ones you listed Yeah VMAs I think that it's VMAs. Like VMAs.

Good Fridays. Good Fridays. Like my, the one that I pick outside of just like, shot for me, but the real one in terms of just like the, all. If we just take Kanye's Good Fridays versus Drake's version that wasn't even named, that was very kind of sporadic. Good Fridays was better. Like, here's the thing.

Like, even when I think of the videos for this, Marvin's room. video is kind of fine. The headlines video is fine. The power video is dope as fucking hell. The runaway short film is dope as like I think where even though Take Care has bigger moments in terms of like hits

in terms of like seven singles if the videos are kind of trash, we didn't even talk about the album cover is kind of trash. You know what I mean? There wasn't as many moments around this in terms of like every point of Connie's rollout has become iconic.

There's a, I mean, I can picture that, I can picture the album in my mind if that makes sense. Like there's a visual identity to not only the album, but to that whole time. Yes. I can just, it's so clearly in my mind. And so we're, I think the best moment, we came up with this category because we wanted to honor the impact outside of the music. Like, are there iconic moments?

We'll talk about our next episode with Beyonce, like, you know, when we think of lemonade, we think of moments. We think of things outside of the music, outside of the album itself. And so I think clearly... And it was hard to do that for Drake because I'm like, at that time, I'm like, there were moments,

but there wasn't... They're not iconic now. Because, like, he's not as... To me, he's not as interesting aesthetically. Yeah. As Kanye, his music videos have never been that good. Yeah.

His album covers have never been that good. Like, his tours have never been that good. And that's not me, like, I'm a big Drake fan. But I feel like a lot of... times it seems like all of that stuff is an afterthought to the music where it's like with Kanye for better and sometimes worse I'm just like he always brings a spectacle yeah all right so clear the the final score was four to one twisted fantasy Justin this somewhat easy question

but every time when we declare the winner we're going to check in with our referee justin to make sure we got it right is my do my beautiful dark twisted fantasy the better album then take care I just want to be clear that the point of this exercise is the best album, not the most influential album, correct? Yes. Yeah. Then yes, we got it right. Because I think if we're talking influential, there's actually a discussion that Take Care is the winner here because you hear the DNA of Take Care of Marvin's Room, of cameras, all this stuff in popular music for the last 15 years, even right now. Yeah. But my beautiful dark twisted fantasy was kind of made in a lab to be the most perfect album possible. and he mostly did it.

Yeah. There were a few road bumps, but he mostly did it. And I really think that as the winner, the winner of, this feels right as the winner of the first episode

of a series trying to pick the best album of the century. I agree. I mean, as someone who was arguing the Drake side, I never really was arguing

because there was, there's no world that you can tell me that take care is a better album than my beautiful dark twisted fantasy. And I think even revisiting it, What's interesting is like take care to me.

A lot of it does feel like sketches because Drake is trying to almost not, he's not creating a new sound, but he's like trying to package and introduce a sound that would go on to dominate the 21st century, which is like to Justin's point, that's talking about influence. But if we're talking about even just how hell of, just how hell of life sounds to cameras, one sounds more finished, one sounds more ambitious. like one sounds more interesting versus one is more palatable like I wouldn't play hell of life

in the club I would play cameras but that we're not talking about in the club we're not talking about influence we're not talking about that we're talking about like hey alien comes

which one are you giving them and I'm like I would give them my beautiful dark twisted fantasy nine times out of ten yeah all right all right we did it we did it yeah good good first episode

do we want to tease the next episode are we going to do that this year You know what? Let's tease. I say the next episode, what we will tease is that this is about, this is like about love. This is about betrayal. Okay. You know, this is about ego.

This is about salage. About masculinity. Yeah. Okay. Black love as well. And in the ways that that has transformed, what would you know about black love in the 20? Let me tell you. Let me tell you.

You were like, hey, I've been waiting for the. discussion my entire life. All right, man. We'll see you next week. See you next week, man. All right, guys, if you've been listening to last song standing, you know that one of our favorite parts is cultural exchange. It is when the both of us, you know, share a little bit about our worlds, about our music.

You know, we've given it, you've given me jazz, classical. I've given you Jeremiah, the films of Miyazaki, an Avengers movie. You introduced me to me to. Nathan Fielder, which I very much appreciate. Oh, thank you. So, this year what we wanted to do is something a little bit different. We already described to you guys about how we went about

choosing some of these albums. But for this cultural exchange, we wanted to pick, we're doing albums the entire run, and we wanted to pick albums that are special to us. But there is a twist. I'm going to give

a call an album. He's going to give me an album. And at the end of the season, whatever album that we give each other that we think was the best of the best will automatically make it to the final Royal Rumble. What I'm going to be trying to do and what you're going to be trying to do this entire time is essentially convinced the other person that, okay, this album is actually, we should have been talking about it the entire time. So I'm trying to appeal a little bit to what Cole likes about music, but also just kind of get some shit and, you know, Get your usher's confessions off.

Okay. So what's your first album? I'm going with something that I don't think you've probably put on in years or maybe ever. I don't know. I have listened. I think I might know where you're going. I'm going with Lord, which is one of my favorite artists of the 21st century. This is insane.

We're talking about influential. Pure heroin, that sound back then. She was ahead of her time. I think she's more influential than you realize. No, she's influential. just not for you. I don't fuck with Lord. Sorry, Lord.

I don't know you as a person. I'm sure like we were friends. Like she seems very nice. I've never listened to Lord's music and been like, I want to listen to more Lord music. Okay, well, I'm giving you the second sophomore album, melodrama, which is I think a perfect pop record.

It is everything I would want from a pop album, which is not, you know, girly pop. I love more now because I have girls and they love this album too. So I find myself, listening to a lot of girl pop in the last decade or so more than I would probably like. But what's fun about them liking this kind of music, my daughters, so I try to find

albums like melodrama that I really enjoy that were important historically. And this is one of those albums. I think I'm not alone in even critics that don't kind of usually gravitate toward girly pop in terms of honoring it with high praise and high positive criticism, agree that melodrama is one of the best pop records ever made. So are you familiar with the album? When's the last time you listened to melodrama?

The last time I listened to melodrama, I was still living in New York, and I must have already been a music writer because that was one of those albums of the year that was in contention for being the best. So at this point, I've been probably, like, since it dropped, to be honest. Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah, so I, like, it might have grown on me. Maybe I need to give Lord more credit. I'm sorry because I feel like I was too mean to Lord. I have nothing against her. Give me a chance. Did you listen to her new album yet? Fuck, no. It's my album of the year so far.

What? Yeah. It's great. It's great. Melodrama. All right. We got it. Well, I'm giving you my version of Lord.

I think the album that I'm giving you actually, I think that this album arguably might be more influential than take care. Definitely more influential than my beautiful dark twisted fantasy. I'm going with Future's Monster. Okay. Because I still think we are still under the umbrella of like the future generation in terms of like for those that don't know when Monster comes out, a future sophomore record, honest, did not do what it was supposed to. He leaned way too into the pop route, R&B. And Monster was the beginning of. of the monumental mixtape running that he would go on with Monster, Beast Mode, 56 Nights,

DS2, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I wanted to give this to you. And the reason I paired it with my beautiful dark twisted fantasy and take care is I'm like, I don't know if you can talk about the 21st century in hip hop or just music. And what ended up happening with the SoundCloud generation, what ended up happening with the drug use with Lean, Xanax, all of that shit. and even the melodies. And I think when we talk about future,

a lot of times we talk about hip hop, but I'm like, oh, no, his influence kind of stretched. Think about what Justin Bieber was ending up doing, what a lot of post Malone. It starts with this record.

So this is one of my favorite records of all time. So it's a future's monster. I'm excited to listen. I like Future, but I just never listened to a lot of his music. I'm not like putting on his albums frequently. So I'm really excited to go back to a full project of future, which I can't remember the last time I played just a full album front to back. But I do like

him. There's something addicting about his voice. There's like a, it sounds like drugs or something. It sounds like drugs. Does it? I don't know. But I'm excited. Okay, first cultural exchange. I'm excited. Hell yeah.