Dissect - Money Folder by Madvillain (BONUS)

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

S12 co-writer Camden Ostrander joins the show for a bonus conversational episode dissecting "Money Folder" by MF DOOM and Madvillain. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, I'm Big Was, Waz, a. A.k.a. Wazni-Lambray, and I'm the host of Weekends with Waz and co-host of group chat on the Ringer NBA feed. Alongside weekends and group chat, we have an incredible assortment of NBA coverage. Real ones with Logan Murdoch and Roger Bell, The Answer with Syred Sohi and Kyle J. Mann, and off-guard with Austin Rivers and Pausha Hagigi. Each week, we tackle all the major news from throughout the NBA and talk to guests from throughout the NBA world. from famous fans like Jerry Ferrara to current all-stars like Carl Anthony Towns to NBA legends like J.R. Smith, as well as NBA media guys and gals from all over the country. So be sure to check us out Monday through Friday on the Ringer NBA feed. Welcome everyone to a special episode of Dysect.

I am your host, Cole Kushner. Today I'm joined with Season 12 co-rider Camden Ostrander for a bonus episode on Madvillanee's Money Folder by M.F. this is a bonus episode because as I mentioned in the previous episode you guys just heard on Tuesday we're not covering every track on mad villain individually we're going to skip over some tracks but money folder was one that I was kind of on this fence about me and camera on the fence about it and we wanted to give it some love so we're going to do a conversational dissect of money folder yay I call I'm excited we get to talk about this one this would be fun it's a good one I found some really cool stuff that I didn't know was in there, so I'm excited to share that. I'm curious to see what you found. So just to give the

listeners an idea how we kind of went about this episode, you kind of made some notes about it. I made some notes about it. We're going to kind of talk through it as if it were a scripted episode, just conversational and kind of share our thoughts on each line. We have not discussed the song really all that much, so we're going to be kind of figuring out as we go. It's like a writer's room. Yeah. It'll be nice. It'll be nice. We did this on, what was that? Season 9, Mac Miller. We did a conversation about conversations, the song. Yeah, let's get into it.

We're going to start with Money Folder. We're going to play a clip. So we're just going to set this up, just like a regular episode of Dysect. We're going to play a clip. We're going to talk about the lyrics in that clip and move on. So let's start right at the beginning. The villain took on many forms. Then he who is without sin cast the first stone after you.

Whose last is doom? He's the worst known. That I have your boom blown Orders won't burst clone Just don't curse the groan On his own microphone Bring it everywhere he go So he could bring it to you live

It's stereo Pan it can't understand it Ban it ban it The underhanded ran it Planned it and left from Okay so we heard a little bit of the opening verse But before there's an opening verse We got to talk about the beat

We got to talk about The introductory skit Or I guess excerpt So it starts with the classic, the thing that they sample throughout the album, which is a documentary of horror villains, it's like a 30-minute documentary. They take a very small clip that says the villain took on many forms,

which I read as a pretty cool little nugget on terms of like, you know, many forms is talking about obviously Doom, taking on all these aliases. Also, Quasimodo. is going to make an appearance on the next track. So Madlib has all these different aliases. It's also the lead single.

They had to let people know. It's like a villain. Like they had to let people know there was a concept coming in, I think. So they had to give us this little sample. Yeah. Did you notice many forms? Anything about many forms? MF?

MF? MF? What? What? So that's a thing that may or may not come back at some point in the song. But I thought that was pretty clever if they were intending to do that. It's pretty cool that MF, many forms, and a song called Money Folder. So the beat is interesting in that I could not find the sample.

And the sample source that I use a lot for referencing these kind of samples is who'sample.com. It's a great website. It's pretty comprehensive, especially with an album like this that's very beloved within a certain hip-hop community that values production. So the fact that it didn't have a sample source anywhere, I couldn't find one on Reddit or anything, tells me that it's either something very, very obscure

that they didn't need to credit, or it's an original. Oftentimes, Madlib will play live instruments, as you will later on the end of the album. for a full track on Great Day. So the main harmony, I couldn't find a sample source. I'm going to assume that Madlib was sampling himself. The drums, however, are from a drum compilation, essentially,

a song called Going Down by Babatunday Lee. It's just straight up drums, sampled, and sped up. Nothing really complicated there. So I would say a simple but very effective production on this thing, very driving. Doom sounds very aggressive. Maybe, I don't know, a little more energized than usual. Is there, is there not a sample for the part later in the middle? Is there not? I thought there must have been there. So we'll save that. I have the source. I have the source on that, but it's not quite a sample. Okay, cool. So let's just get into the verse, unless you add anything on the production.

That's all you, cool. That don't know. Yeah. I figured. Okay. I iconic opening line. Like essentially every song on this project. Just first bar is important. Yeah. Every time. Yeah. It feels like he really thinks about these opening bars or they're just kind of the inspiration that then kind of leads to the rest of the verse.

Since he seems to write down couplets a lot, just like individualized couplets that then kind of work their way into whatever song. So we have a great one here. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone after you. Who's last? It's doom. He's the worst. which is just like in its phrasing is so beautiful.

Obviously, he's taking a famous biblical kind of proverb or idiom. Technically comes from John 3.8. The story goes, there's a woman charged with adultery, the punishment of which is public stoning. This woman is brought to Jesus, and then Jesus tells this crowd, He who is without sin among us, let him cast the first stone at her, essentially saying we're all sinners. We can't judge people too harshly.

etc., etc. Of course, Doom flips this in a very classic Doom way, saying that he'd be the last person to throw a stone because he has done the most sinning. So just a really great flip of this common idiom, classic Doom technique. Also, I don't know if you thought about this, a play on Stones Throw record. Yep, that's what I was going to ask. Do you think it was because, like, this is the first one? This is the first thing they put out on Stone's Throw. He had to start with that.

like why did he start with this? I don't know. I thought it might be. I think so. If this was the first single, was this on the leak? I believe it was on the leak. Do you remember?

I think so. Off the top of your head? I think it is. So meaning like it was recorded in those earlier sessions in 2000, what, two as opposed to the late 2003 sessions. And on those early songs, you can, there's a lot of,

there's a lot of wordplay about Madlib, Doom connecting, obviously, at the fresh inspiration point. So I wouldn't be surprised if it has, you know, the first stone was a stone's throw play. Anything else on that before we move on? I also like the play on Doom's own name being death and that being the last

thing. Like that's the end. It's, like, I like that little, I just think he does that with his name a lot. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I should probably acknowledge the rhyme here. Since, like, the first, the opening line is like a quote, there's not any internal rhymes, but then right away,

that second line where it becomes Doom's original, you know, you got the who, you, whose, doom, rhyme. You have the cast and last rhyme. You have the first stone, the worst known. So at this point, we're kind of used to this, but it's also, but you don't want to overlook it at the same time.

Like, this is great. Okay, very confusing next couplet. I'm curious to know your thoughts, because I, some stuff I just didn't know. That'll have your boom blown or either thirst bone. Rocket tomb, burst clone, just don't curse the throne. So that'll have your boom blown.

It's like speakers blown, I think, like boombox speakers blown. I think it's that or marijuana being blown, like that being loud. Okay. That, one of those two. Yeah. Thirstbone, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on Thirstbone? I have no idea.

It's worse known, first stone, thirst bone. Yeah. Like, that's, that's all I got. Thirst, yeah, I, maybe it's a, maybe it's a drug thing I'm not sure of. It could be like a euphemism, thirsty, his bone. That's what I was thinking too. But there's no other sex stuff yet. So I'm not sure.

Anyone knows, let us know. But, um, Rock at Tomb Burst Clone, that feels like stone wordplay. So rock stone from the previous. Rocket Tomb, Burst Clone. Burst clone, I thought, was just like fitting the rhyme scheme, of course, but a way to say like destroying any impostors.

Which becomes very ironic, given when he started putting out the imposter. Like, I don't think he had done it at this point, putting out the MFDo Imposter performers, but yeah. But he would. Eventually, yeah. Just on Curse of Thrones seems

just classic superiority, respect. Okay, moving on. Own his own microphone. bring it everywhere he go so he can bring it to you live in stereo, erie, erie, erie. Erieree, every, erie. Yeah, of course. Well, this is like classic Doom again,

talking about his microphone. It's singular, you can't touch it, you can't breathe on it, don't follow him on the mic. Like, he's also talking about it like it's a gun. Bring it everywhere he go. And then obviously we get to cool stereo kind of text painting of a pans left and right to show you that it's actually in stereo, left and right channels.

There's notes that this like references a He's not the only one who ever thought of this. I did think that you would love the text painting of the Aerea Ario in different places. Yeah, I mean, it's cool because it's like something you feel in the moment. It's not anything that you, it's like clever, but it's also something that's very noticeable. It's not like most people are going to catch that, I think. I did see, I think Genius had a few people that did something similar, but it didn't feel like a call to any of those that I thought of. about the same yeah so moving on he switches the rhyme scheme so to this point he's been doing a lot of blown bone

burst clone own own phone stereo like a lot of this oh stuff then he flips it here pretty abruptly and abandons everything before in terms of rhyme he says pan it can't understand it ban it the underhand and rant it uh planned it and left him stranded oh by the way like reciting some of this stuff on the air on you know recording i don't know how he wrapped it because it's such these are such ton twisters that are just hard to even say real alone rhyme it to a beat and very fast so also something i've really noticed and loved about studying him in terms of rhyme scheme he is so quick to establish new rhymes uh meaning that a lot of most rappers end up just rhyming the fourth bar of every measure

just standard M rhymes, sometimes multisyllable end rhymes, but mostly the rhymes schemes are established on the fourth bar of every measure, the last part of the sentence. And then when they change rhyme schemes, they just do it, they just flip it with kind of without warning and it's just, you know, that rhyme scheme's done.

The next one's going to be established on also the fourth beat, the last part of the sentence. And that's just kind of the standard. Doom seems to always establish the new rhyme scheme, like right away. way on the first beat of the next line and then he's doing internals in that first beat with the new rhyme cadence right away. And so it's like you're getting a new rhyme, but at the same time, the rhymes never stop. You know what I mean?

Like he doesn't wait to establish. It's like once it's there, it's like it's fair game and he just rolls with it. So that's a, this is a great example of that. Pivoting the rhyme scheme, but just relentless with the rhymes still. So you never, there's never any gap in the rhymes. Okay, meaning pan it, stereo effect. So he's calling back to what he just did, pan it, like literally panning. But then also flipping it to mean you can say pan it, like criticize it,

which then leads him to say, can't understand it, ban it. Which in this context calls back, I think, to the boombox kind of thing. We're like on the radio, on stereo. And then people like trying to ban doom because of, misunderstanding the villain essentially, can't understand it, which is classic doom. The underhanded ranter. I didn't know underhand means deceitful.

Is that a common thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like underhanded. Like, I guess I thought backhanded compliment. I've also heard underhanded compliment. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I learned that.

Thanks, Doom. So underhand means deceitful. That means underhanded ranter, essentially the people that criticized him are plotting against him, planned it. left him stranded. This feels like it could be a call to KMD. I think it's setting it up for verse two.

Where he talks about it a little bit more. But I do think he is talking about KMD, referencing like them getting censored and panned. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I thought, yeah, it's not totally overt, but it's like coming from Doom,

you think of that. Centrism and rap was still pretty, I mean, by early 2002, I guess it was probably still in play. That was more like late 90s, very early 2000s, but it seems like it was still kind of in the zeitgeist rap censorship, which Doom does tend to cite, especially in the earlier stuff. Okay, so let's listen to the next clip, and we'll talk about it.

The best, any who profess will be remanded. Yes, sir, request for mission to be candid, clear. I don't think we can handle a style so rancid. He flipped it like Mada did an old jazz standard. All right, jumping back in. We get a pretty iconic, classic kind of doom technique here. He says, The best, anyone who profess will be remanded.

Yes, sir, request permission to be candid, granted. I don't think he can handle a style so rancid. He flipped it like MADlib did an old jazz standard. Very cool. Oh, yeah. So obviously he's like dictating this conversation between a high ranking officer and a low ranking officer

which I'm assuming is the underhanded the people that tried to ban him and essentially like the lower officer is you know granted permission to be candid he essentially says you know doom is the best and we can't fuck with him we can't handle this

he's got us outnumbered we're overpowered like he's yeah it's feeling like classic like old cartoon right it is so cool how he does the self conversation Doom obviously has so many characters but like when he does this thing when he's like

basically talking with himself you really get that look into him playing word games with himself in his brain and just having those internal conversations. Right. Like talking with himself about himself, about another character he's playing. So

this is pretty cool. So he says he flipped it like Madlib did an old jazz standard. So obviously this then cuts to an extent in musical interlude. So he follows this like, I guess, lyrical theatrics of playing these characters

that then say they flip their opinion about Doom, meaning they tried to censor him and then now they're praising him to Madlib flipping a jazz standard. So this probably cites yesterday's new quintet, which had just come out the year,

I guess the year after he would have written this. but I would assume that Madlib was already working on or thinking about it. But then we actually hear a Madlib original. Cool thing about this is that it's not actually a sample. So this is Madlib playing as he does often with his jazz pieces, essentially quote-unquote covering a jazz standard in his own musical language, meaning he's playing the drums or he's sampling the drums

and he's kind of touching on a melody or the chords in his own. way. This is a, I guess, an interpolation or a cover of Freddie Hubbard. It's called a sole turnaround from 1969. We can play a little clip here. It's not very obvious. The tempos are, you know, quite different and it's not like he's directly quoting it. It's kind of like alluding to it. That's at least what, that's definitely not like factual. That's, that's just the general consensus that this is the piece that he's referencing. But I did find, it does make sense because if you think about soul turnaround, why would they pick sole turnaround?

Why? They just talk about flipping. So he's literally flipping a jazz standard right after Doom said, flipped it like an old jazz standard, and he's literally flipping a song called Turnaround. That's cool. Gotta be intentional, right? Like of all the songs he's going to choose to.

do right there. That's cool. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. And that is not the last time. We're going to cut to a quick ad break, but that's not the last time

that he's going to flip something in this sequence of the song. So let's hit the ad and I'll tell you what I'm talking about. All right, we are back Dissecting Money Folder. We had just heard the theatrics of Doom playing these

different characters, ending this little skit with he flipped it like a madlib did at old jazz standard we get an actual flip of a jazz standard called turnaround so there is this flip motif going on that is going to continue in the next part of the song don't mind me i wrote this rhyme lightly off a two or three heinies and boy was they fine g one black one spanish one chinese it keeps the woody shiny around like a pine tree don't sign me i'm about to get a mill without him crowd him off the shelf he's the villain and what about him All right, he's a jerk, and you don't know him. Mad, how he ex-band works but won't show him.

Poor guys, what a sight for holes or four eyes. Now, hook me with two apple pies and a small fries. All right. So, Doom comes back after the jazz sample with one of my favorite bars on the entire song, on the entire album. It is such a cool moment. Really funny. Classic Doom. He says, don't mind me.

I wrote this rhyme lightly off of two or three heinies. So at this point, we're thinking. Heinekins, obviously. This is something Doom does quite often. He cites the origin, the place that he's writing, or the inspiration of the verse that he's writing currently. So we're thinking two or three hyeneys. He's also got a new rhyme scheme here with mind me, rhyme lightly,

three heinies, this double E thing. But then, of course, he flips it. So this is another flip right after he talked about flip and then a flipped of a jazz sample called Turnaround. He does a classic Doom flip here. and says, and boy was they fine G, one black, one Spanish, one Chinese, it keep the woody shiny year round like a pine tree. Just like, so good.

It's the heinies. MF Doom is a supervillain saying heinie. Yeah. So the heinous becomes the ad. becomes the ass, of course. And then it turns into this sexual boast, which just in the hands of doom, his sex boast just never sound.

They're never serious. They're just always funny because, like, he can't really pull off, like, just a straight sex thing. I think he knows that. What? So there's always, like, there's always, like, a comedic twist

to the, to the, uh, the sex bars usually. And this one is just great. So, of course, continuing to flip motifs, there's also a really great wordplay, especially in the, it keeps the wood shiny year round like a pine tree. So woody obviously alludes to an erection, but also the tree and pine tree wood. So keeping it shiny like a pine tree. So there's a couple

ways you can interpret it. Probably all of them were intentional. So keeping it fresh, keeping it shiny, like a pine-scented cleaner or air freshener, which is like a common scent for those things. But also pine trees. I did some research here. Literally stay green year-round. I read about the evolution of pine trees. I forgot most of the information,

but they have been evolved to, like, store moisture in the thin needles. And so there's moisture when there's not moisture, and it protects them from the snow. And I don't know. I'm not a scientist, but. They're shiny year-round. They are literally shiny year-round.

So when he says year-round, like a pine tree, there's actual... This is how I can tell you're on the West Coast. You do. I'm looking out my window at a pine tree right now. But this is... That's so funny. That is what... Is that a double entendre, triple entendre?

It's a great line. Yeah, yeah. It's true. Flip to many different ways. I love how he comes back in with don't mind me also. Oh, right. Yeah. Like, he, like, he set Madlib.

Like, we talk about the Madlib MF Doom teamwork that was going on to make Mad Villainee. This is obviously a call to, like, MF Doom writing the verse, Mad Lib responding with production, and then MFDum coming back with the verse after that, right? To add in the jazz standard. But him to come back in with, don't mind me. I mean to rap again. Like, for the villain to be so polite, right? What, he did not on another song.

What is that? where he takes a brief pause and then comes back. Oh, I'm blinking on the song now. Anyways, he kind of does the sly acknowledgments of these kind of things a lot. I loved it. There's also a, we should note that there's a quote about this line specifically from Eric Coleman, the guy who took the photo for the album cover. So in the Will Hagle 33 and a third book,

Eric Coleman talks about he believes this is like a specific story. He like he has this quote he's like yeah there was this one night when we ran out of Heineken and we were treating MF Doom well to a party and he was having a good time and like he's like that is a specific moment Doom was like being inspired by the good times they were having

which is nice because so much of this song feels like very in the moment of them creating this whole thing. I thought that was cool. All right you want to take over Oh, I'm so excited to do dry reads and lyrics. Excellent. My best call voice. M.F. Doom then wraps.

Don't sign me. I'm about to get a mill without him. Crowd him off the shelf. He's the villain. And what about him? So I like this, that he like kept the don't, don't mind me into don't sign me. And I think this is when he's talking about KMD getting shelved. which we alluded to in the last verse.

But we've also heard at this point, like when he got shelved, when they were literally censored, he got paid. Like he did get money on his way out the door. And his masters. And his masters. And I like that he used like the term off the shelf,

like that kind of being shelved, his album being shelved, things like that. And it's also funny to hear him again speak from like the crowd he's the villain what about him it's like people saying i don't know who cares about that guy right right uh so i thought it's really cool um did you have did you have anything else no keep going another line read so and he's a jerk i don't think i could hear you read read like this the whole time okay fine fine fine i'm doing like a pose and all right um of doom then

says so and he's a jerk and you don't know about him mad how he expand work but won't show him um i i didn't really have much on those two did you yeah i think i think the mad he how he expand work won't show him i mean every time he says mad i'm like okay mad villainy or mad lib yeah mad lib mad lib mad mad mad villainy won't show him feels very like anonymous like maybe so is it self-referential did it his own work anonymity he's working he's working on stuff but barely publishes anything that would definitely apply to mad lib that's true um and then the word the word play of like showing work so like a math problem he expanded work but won't show him so only two like little thoughts i had about this where i wondered if not

showing the work alludes to again that time when kmb got shelved because we've talked about like these missing years from doom's life i do wonder if he's talking about work if he's suggesting something about times that he does not talk about or did not talk about. And we never got to see that. And then with the math thing, the next few lines do have numbers. Oh, right.

So image room reps, poor guy. One other thing, one other possibility. Oh, in terms of don't know them, won't show them. Yeah.

And even to the KMD point, like it could be talking about like underground. Oh, true. Versus like publicly seen, publicly out there. Another possibility. True.

Okay. All right. So with the math, the numbers lines. Yeah. All right. So Doom wraps. Poor guys. What a sight for old sore four eyes.

Now hook me with two apple pies and a small fries. All right. Small fry. Small fry. Wait, I want to get the next two in this as well. He says, all rise so far odd as a ruple. So raw, break it down and make quadruple. A small fries.

All rise. So far odd as a ruple. So raw, break it down and make quadruple. It's crucial. You can see it in a ruple. his pupil. And this time when he get it, he'll waste it on something useful.

Like getting juiced off a deuce duce of cokey. Keep a low key known to pull of okie dokey. Silly goose, doom is too joky. Damn, he can really use a room or a whole key. So in terms of math, he's got four eyes, then he gets two apple pies, then one small fry. And then he, like, talks about how he can make one into four.

So he's doing, I don't know if he was doing something with numbers on purpose. Oh, right. But he's got a little going down, and going back up thing. Sore four eyes is, it is funny how he demeans himself because that would be him, right? Like the four eyes, MFDume with the glasses, and our favorite pictures of him with the glasses outside the mask.

Yeah, the best. That's so good. It's when he's at his best. But he also said poor, he also says poor guys, plural. So when I was, when the four eyes thing, I don't know if that was like a doom and madlib thing together. Or if he's just talking about. They have four eyes.

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I actually didn't even look to see if I could, you know, I love numbers. And I didn't even like, so he has two, four, so six, seven. What's a ruple? Do we know what a value of a ruple is? It's like a Russian currency, I think.

I don't know what the value. Yeah, I don't know what the value is. I took it as one. but it's cool that he that he does seem to that definitely makes more of a case

for the mass problem wordplay of the previous line that then is followed by numbers of four lines of numbers in it so I love having

like pauses during his McDonald's order hook me with there is a pause there is a pie hook me with two apple pies in a spot

like he thinks about let me get a like he does that which I love I like pluralizing the singular fry. Small fries. And a small fries. Because you don't say fry.

I mean, I guess you would. Could I have a small fry? There's more than one fry in the small order. Right? I did get sad thinking about how that probably used to be like $2. So I got that. And then also, when Doom says make quadruple, I thought this was really cool. in the years 2003 to 2004,

he releases albums from four identities. Daniel Dumley, he released an album as King Giedera in 2003. He releases albums by Victor Vaughn. Rodville Villain comes out in 2003. M Food is 2004 and Mad Villeney is 2004. So, so raw, if he's talking about his own beats, his own, everything that he breaks down like his lyrics and everything,

and he makes it quadruple. That's him making four. for like his his run for these two years is pretty wild so i thought that was cool if he's talking about that yeah that's cool yeah i like that uh i think yeah also the other play was the more i guess a more obvious one break it down make it quadruple so his lyrics are so raw you can break them up and sell them in smaller parts for more profit um just like he would like raw meat do you think he was thinking like if i simplified my things i would be more popular or do you like what do you think I don't know if he ever wanted.

I think he's just saying his lyrics are so potent that you could literally dice them up and sell them for more profit as you would like a pound of drugs or whatever. That makes sense. That was my play. I don't, yeah. Cool. So

Doom then wraps. It's crucial. You could see it in his pupil. And this time when he get it, he'll waste it on something useful. And I want to read the next couple. Like getting juice off a deuce of Koki, keep it low key, known to pull a okie dokey.

So good. It's so fun. We should do this. We should do this for everyone now. He's just good to laugh at the word. Yeah, that's good. So, with seeing it in his pupil, I think he's talking about,

I think he's talking about drugs. I think he's, you can see it in his eyes because he probably did something that was raw, and then he broke it down, and then it gave him the hunger to have two apple pies and a small fries. So he probably had the munchies.

I think he might be continuing an idea along those lines from the previous section. I like when Doom talks about using money, like wasting it. So I think if he's talking about money here, waste it on something useful. And then he says something we might not expect because he says he's going to use his money for a deuce, deuce of cokey. which could be either 22 grams of cocaine or cokey malt it's like a malt liquor and then he says keep it loki known to pull a okey dokey so

it sounds like he's saying something deceitful right when he says okey dokey yeah like I can't find anything like Ness's sit like it's a basketball term sometimes like an okey dope like a little rope dope. Like, I think that's what he kind of meant.

Like, Ropa dope is okedoki. I've never heard anyone say, like, pull it oki dokey as in, like, get one over on you. But that seems to be

clearly the intended meaning. It seems, when he says polet, you think he's like pulling off a heist. You think he's pulling off some type of something. So the,

juiced off a deuce, deuce cokey, I think he was doing, like the, what's long as where he says, I might need some puss psychiatrist. where he's like, you think he's going to say

might need some pussy, but he says puss psychiatrist. What would he be saying? Like, we think where he's going to say cocaine, but he flips it at the last second, essentially. So a deuce-duce off a co-key, but like, co-key, he just flips it. It's a little cookie.

It's just one of those things where you're like, classic doom of replacing what we think he's going to say with something else. Also, I was trying to figure out the deuce-duce of Koki there wouldn't be a 22 ounce. So maybe it means... Two?

Either two or half or we're just looking too much into it. Yeah. Deuce and juice. A deuce? Yeah. But also I looked up deuce. And it does mean

40 in tennis terms. Oh. There's something where if it's like Duce, Duce or Duce, something where like both players have 40. I haven't seen. challengers. I don't know what we're...

Now as I was thinking like, Duce, deuce, like if it was 20, okay. Would be equal 40. So it'd be a 40 ounce. And obviously, we should say like he's continuing the numbers thing. He just said quadruple. Now he's saying Duce, deuce. Yeah. So I think there's something there. I think that... That's cool. If I make some grand revelation about these numbers, after the fact, I'll punch myself in somewhere in here, somewhere in here, but... Some calculations. There might be something else,

but at the minimum, he's just doing the numbers thing. still, which is cool. I also love he'll waste it on something useful because it's like, it's like an oxymoron. He says the thing that makes it make sense and like he did waste it on something, but also that was useful if he's

saying that this thing that's making money, this music, this verse that he's writing was fueled by Heineken. Like the wasted thing actually is useful and also wasted applies to being drunk. Like, just this cool. There's this, I pulled a quote for this. There's a in

1999 he gets interviewed by LSD magazine. He says, because somebody was like, the interview was like, would you ever put yourself in a bad mindset to make more emotionally like revealing music? And he says, I wouldn't put myself into a rut. But while I'm feeling like that, as we all do, I definitely would utilize that and get the most out of it. If something's messing me up, it's going to make me some paper, is what he said. Like that. So like, yeah, it is useful for him. Right. I also, I wondered if this was a little bit of text painting. When he says keep it low key, the beat, some elements of the beat drop off.

And it becomes mostly just a drum sample. Right. So I did like that the keep it low key might coincide with that. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that could be really cool if that was, yeah, which was nice. Did you, I don't know superheroes, but apparently like Loki is a Marvel villain too.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So. Does he fight Dr. Do we should have watched more Marvel. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't sure if that was a thing, but... I don't know if he fights doctor. Can somebody who read comic books tell us? Yeah, yeah.

So the low-key, I think that reference works. That's cool. Yeah. Can we do the next line? Yeah, silly goose. Silly goose! Guys, MF Doom says, Silly goose, Doom is too joky.

Damn, he could really use a room or a whole key. I'm not going to get to. the next one yet. I love that he says silly goose. After okey doke, after okey doke, that he says silly goose, it's brilliant. He's so fun. Also, yeah. Great, great goose alcohol, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that makes sense.

I think he's continuing that a little bit. True, the goose. She often does, like, he'll have a motif that he just weaves into these very subtle ways, as we're seeing now with the numbers, with the alcohol. Yeah, it's all like very, very intentional. Yeah. When he says he could use a room or a hokey, he's like saying he needs a place of his own to chill out while he's doing all

of this. Or what do you, do you think he's saying whole key or hokey? Because he could do like a hokey, okey doke doke, like a dance. Or it could be like the key to a worker of the night. Or it could. That's what I. Okay. Yeah.

Got you. That was my reading. what he says next, which we have to play the clip for. Okay. And I also wondered if it's a whole kilo of cocaine because like it's a whole Oh, right. It's the koki is the Cokey is the cocaine. Right, right, right. I wanted to do that.

I don't know what he's saying, but it's so fun. Yeah, I mean, I thought he was saying like someone was saying he could use a room, which is like something you say like if you either. He's too drunk to drive. Yeah, too drunk or Making a smart decision. Yeah, too drunk

So he needs a room or you also say that when like people are like having like making out in public or something like get a room which then hokey it flips to this sexual thing. So let's hear the clip and we'll talk about how he kind of flips it into the sex thing. E gats got a nostalgia start three fads true that she bad I wonder do she come with knee pads. What a call. What a real butterball either I get a strike or strike out gut a ball. Rocking like air for the fore With nice inside pockets Prepared for the pro Yeah y'all You can say it's an airful Beware

Do not touch Mike, be careful And just like he said I could have told you MF the holder of a boulder Money holder All right Doom reps He gets

He says he gets He gets He got enough styles To start three fads And then he says Trudette She bad I wonder

Do she come with knee pads So So EGADS is like classic superhero Like villain type dialogue Yeah Excellent after the silly goose to say EGADS Right He's again talking about like copycats

With him having the clones earlier Now he's gonna have enough style to start three fads Everybody's trying to like be just like him And then he wonders if a woman comes with knee pads Because I mean he is insinuating he would like her to be on her knees is what is happening I think is there anything I think that's pretty much yeah just ties back to the hotel room hokey maybe he meant hotel room key hotel room key maybe yeah maybe but yeah but it definitely formal this is

often he does the same thing too where you're like is he talking about that and then like you'll have a line right after or later yep he is doing that on purpose um And I think that's one of those cases because obviously he's talking about a sex worker. Usually sex workers are, you know, do their business in a hotel room. So it all makes sense. Yeah, that's all I have for that though. Yeah. And the next lines, it's a pretty, I love these next ones.

He says, yeah, that's really good. What a call, what a real butterball. Either I get a strike or strike out, gutter ball. So like, we should set up like he's talking about bowling and baseball at, once. Yeah. Talking about the way things could go with this, um,

perhaps a knee padded individual where he is saying like what a call, what are we a butterball? So butterball is a type is like a brand of turkey. So he could be like calling her a turkey. He could be like, you know, saying she's a bird, something like that.

Yeah. Well, I thought it was like, I thought it might be like a chicken head play. Yeah. Because you just talked about knee, knee pads that imply oral sex. Chicken head is a play on bobbing head like oral sex.

So I thought that pretty much cemented it. And in bowling, he says I could get a strike or strike out gutter ball. So gutter ball is bowling. A turkey in bowling is three strikes. So he gets a strike means he would get with her. He would get three of those in a row. He would have a turkey, right? But if he also got three strikes in a row, he would strike out, which is a baseball term.

If you get three strikes, you strike out at the plate, you're out. if the pitcher throws three strikes past you. So that would mean that he does not get with the girl. And in bowling, then that would be a gutter ball. Yeah. So he's like, I love that he's like simultaneously like it could go this way or this way. And he has a double entendre that shows like there's this interesting cross-section play of words. It's insane.

Like think about this. Like, we take this kind of stuff for granted with doom because, yes. Yeah. What essentially he is saying is this thing with a girl could go either way. but the way that he ends up saying it within this like really complex, intricate baseball, like there's no reason to do that except for like he's a, he's an artist and he's a rapper and this is what you do. You say things in creative ways and it's just like,

who else but doom? Like the amount of times I've said that in my head when I'm like dissecting the lyrics this season, I'm just like, who else but doom? Like there's literally no one else that would think of these types of ways of saying things. certain way he phrases things. It's like, this is a classic example of exactly that. Yeah. And the way that, like, it all makes sense within, especially like the chickenhead turkey,

like, we got there in a way that wasn't just totally off, like, off topic in terms of like, I have this creative idea that I want to kind of like sneak in here. But no, like the butterball thing connects it to the hokey to the sex worker to the knee pads with the chicken head thing. So just really great. Really fun. Yeah. Yeah. His next MF Doom then wrapped. Rocket-like gear for the fall with, and then I don't know what he says, nice or knives, with nice inside pockets, prepare for the brawl. Yeah, y'all could say it's an earful. Beware. Do not touch Mike. Be careful.

So the gear for the fall, that's a nice coat. And so it would have nice inside pockets, right? Oh, right. It's a nice coat. he's got a cool coat on he's good you know that's nice for him but it could be knives inside the pockets and that would be him prepared for the brawl

oh okay I didn't catch that at all so that's like his weapon for the brawl he's prepared for that so they better not be trying to mess with him do not touch his mic you need to be careful because in his really nice coat he's got weaponry

perhaps right right right yeah that's cool I just don't know which word he's saying and I've seen it both ways well it could be a homophone yeah yeah which which i which i love so that's cool yeah um and then again he's like do not touch my microphone don't touch the mic like an accordion or any other right song you know also i did read pocket is a term that's used for um for bowling yeah which is like there's a certain location of the pins that you to get a strike it's called the pocket so it might

may or may not be intentional there but um you i was trying to think if there's is anything with the rocket, like rocket, rocket, rocket. Because it's tying back to the stone, the stone of the opening, which is going to come back here in a second more explicitly. So I think he might be working his way back there with the rocket thing. I was just trying, I didn't realize rocket could be also be read rocket, rocket, ship, I don't know. But I don't know if that is any, I didn't think that through until now. And I don't think it has any, I don't think it has any anything to do with it surprised.

Do you want to spend three hours wondering if the four to one becomes one-two-four and if that matches the song doing the same thing? Cole, we could do it. We could spend eight hours on the microphone. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. And then we got the final bars.

Yeah. MF Doom wraps. And just like he said, I could have told you MF, the holder of a boulder, money folder. I love it. Just the sound of that. So good. So good. Yeah.

So. So. He is referencing one of his favorite artist, KRS 1. Let's play that clip and we can talk about it.

KRS1 is the holder of a boulder. Money folder. All right. So that is from Boogie Down Productions. KRS 1 song called South Bronx from 1987. Classic disc song. started a whole or it was a response to the bridges over it was like kind of this was it the

kind of the first real public rap beef if i'm not mistaken uh anyways uh it's a kRS one song that we obviously know that doom really loves him so kr s says you settle for a pebble not a stone like a rebel kRS one is the holder of a bolder money folder i have some stuff on this but go ahead. I mean, I just was like, we talked about this, I think earlier this season,

but like Doom looked at Karras one as a big inspiration, especially with the way the Boogie Down Productions, everything went and how things went with Doom and his brother. He's talked about that on this song. He talked about censorship. He talked about, you know, not being signed and things like that.

So for him to make the call back to KRS when I thought was very fitting. Did you have more like, as far as just the reference? Yeah, so, okay, so a couple things here, just about the last line. One thing that he does a lot, I've noticed, so the MF doesn't rhyme with anything. So he said, he just, like he said, could have told you MF, the holder of a bolder money folder. He'll do that a lot with the villain, like one of his classic things, he's like, villain, the worst guy. The villain rarely rhymes with anything, which is cool because it sticks out.

because everything else has all these multiple rhymes and he's doing this really fluid thing. And then when he has such a bold word that is enunciated and very, you know, it's like MF, it's like very powerful because it doesn't rhyme, which is like cool because he's rhyming so much. The thing that doesn't rhyme actually is the thing that sticks out. That's cool. Detail. So the money folder in my estimation is like a play on like a billfold wallet. and so if that's a boulder then it means they have a large

wallet meaning they have a lot of money a big wad of cash which would so but also boulder and he just said a rocket like gear for the fall so there's a rock there's a boulder

and we think about the opening line of the song he cast the first stone so he's doing the classic doom thing that we talked about on number of episodes where the last line brings the whole song full circle. But also, if you notice in the Boogie Down Productions,

KRS 1 says, you settle for a pebble, not a stone like a rebel. Pebble, stone. So he's citing a lyric from Boogie Down Productions that you don't hear, but if you go and do the research, right before he, KRS 1 says, is the holder of a bolder money folder that he's interpolating here at the end of the song. KRS 1 is also taught. talking about pebbles and stones, which then ties into boulder and this thing with the opening line of the money folder, which is about a stone.

So it's like all calling back to the beginning. He's bringing this closing the loop, full circle moment, like in more ways than one, right? Like he's got the rock, he's got the boulder. He's paying off the MF. That's another thing I missed. So if the song starts by saying the villain took on many forms and the MF was purposeful, he's also calling back to the actual very beginning of the song and the MF, because now he's paying off the MF with a new MF, which means money folder in this case. So it's like, all that's great. Also, just the surface level of it is, of him isn't, he's not throwing stones. He's actually throwing boulders is what's revealed at the end. True.

He sins, if we're playing off the opening line, he has sinned so much that he, he's, throwing last because he's sinned the most but he's also throwing boulders and not stones which is like incredibly clever and cool and like what a way to like end the song by calling back to begin like I don't know this stuff is

fucking cool to me it's like yeah insane it's like also related to his continued like internally in the verse when he was talking about the sex worker

because the holder of a boulder we're talking about over the boulder shoulder holder He's talking about a bra. He's talking about that stuff as well. It's that old... Look, if I have to... A grandparent has told me that that is an old man term.

So that's what I... Don't look at me like... What is it again? The over-the-shoulder boulder. That is a brazier. So the holding of a boulder. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he's talking about that.

And it's the money folder. So it's like those two things are in one. It's just like him with the gutter ball or the... the turkey. Fucking Doom. I know. Crazy.

Yeah. All right. So brilliant stuff by Doom, as always, money folder. Really, really great song. There's an outro skit. I don't know if you had much on the outro skit, but essentially they kind of pull this clip where the villains are rapidly growing healthy cash flow.

Villain rose to incredible new heights of money making, revenge and extortion. So they obviously hand-selected this collage to, to go with the Money Folder theme. I mean, it's, it's great world building. It's great, like, that they put this on the single. It's got the outro with the sample source. It's also, like, in the album, good placing, because this is the middle. So we have it at the start, middle, and end.

They're doing a good job of building this motif and using the sample throughout the whole thing. So, yeah. Yeah, love it. And that's it, Cam. Thanks for joining me. It's cool. Thanks for having me, Cole. It's been a blast.

I'll talk to you soon.