Dissect - Mr. Morale & The Big Steppers | LAST SONG STANDING (E2)

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

The LSS Boyz aren't your saviors, but they are here to debate Kendrick Lamar's latest project in order to determine its best song, the last song standing. Follow the official LSS Spotify playlist, updated weekly. LAST SONG STANDING is a new show from Dissect and The Ringer. Each season focuses on one artist in attempt to determine their greatest song of all time by debating through their ENTIRE catalog. New episodes of Last Song Standing publish Thursdays on the Dissect feed. Hosts: Cole Cuchna & Charles Holmes Producer: Justin Sayles Audio Production: Kevin Pooler Theme Music: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome, everyone, to Last Song Standing, a show about your favorite artist's greatest song of all time. I'm Cole Kushner from Dissect. And I'm Charles Holmes of The Ringer Music Show and Midnight Boys. And in this first season, a last song standing, we're diving deep into one of the most talented and complicated rappers of a generation. Mr. Kendrick Lamar, Cole and I are debating our way through his entire catalog in an effort to decide what's the greatest Kendrick song of all time. each episode is dedicated to one Kendrick album where we are forced to choose only one song from that project to advance to the season finale, our Royal Rumble. Last week, in a surprise upset, Cole and I agreed for once and crowned Mad City as the best song of Kendrick's 2012 debut,

Good Kid, Mad City. One episode in, I have to ask you, Cole, man, how are you feeling? Does this exercise feel a little bit harder than we thought it would be? Yeah, really, I mean, I thought it was going to be hard, but it's been, I mean, just the prep of these episodes and listening to the songs and weeding them out is definitely hard. I mean, Kendrick has so many great songs that's kind of what makes it difficult, but also, yeah, you're trying to juggle a lot, like, like we kind of talked about in the first episode where it's like, you know, it can't be just your favorite songs. It also has to be a representation of who Kendrick Amar is, what it, you know, what he's kind of means in the hip-hop legacy. There's just a lot of factors to consider. So it's been difficult,

but very, very fun. How about you? I'm no closer to knowing what the best Kenjelmar song of all time is. I keep being like, can I predict what I'm going to pick? And then each time I like dive into an album, like, man, I don't have any clue. That's why we're doing the exercise, honestly. But yes, to answer the broader question,

this is very hard. I don't know what the best Kendrick Lamar song of all time is going to be. But on today's episode, we're going to weed down another album. So we're going to read down another album. we're going to go back to the recent past, my man. The L-Dubles S boys, you like that, Cole? I like that. Dude, that is great, actually. The L-Dubles-S boys may not be your saviors,

but we are going to pick the best song of Mr. Morrell and the Big Steppers. I got daddy issues. That's on me. Looking for I love you, readily empathize it for my release. Bitch. Ugh. You ugly as fuck.

You out of pot. What the fuck. Eight billion people on Earth. Solid murderers. Non-profits, preachers In church, crooks and bo' Bish nigger Bope phone

Trying to keep the balance I'm standing strong What is a bitch in a miniskirt A man in his feelings With bitter in her What is a woman that really? Yo, Cole, a few months removed How are we feeling about

Mr. Morale? How's it sitting with you? How is it sizzling in the crock pot for you? Can I be honest with you? Yes. All right. I've been going through something 5657 days

for whatever he said. No, it's a, I love this album. That was really good. Okay, I think I messed up on one of the chords, but we're good. It put me through something. That's why, like, it's a very emotional album. Like, the first time we talked about it, I might have shed a tear on a reaction episode for Dissect.

And it's been a kind of emotional journey, not only trying to understand where Kendrick is and what he's trying to say on this album, but, you know, kind of redefining our perception of him after this album. yeah it's just been you know we're only a month removed or so from the album

I'm closer to understanding I think what he is trying to do than I was obviously like a few days after but he's doing a lot on this album like he is addressing I mean you forget like five years past since his last project to this one and so much happened in the world

in that time that it's just it's a lot to process I don't know how about you gonna keep it real after that first week or two. I have not listened to this album. Like, I started listening to the album again to prep for this just because, not because I disliked the album. Emotionally speaking, the album put me in a funk because it is so heavy. And I just had to put it on a shelf being

like, I like this album, but I don't think right now I'm in the mental headspace or emotional headspace to really deal with it. And let me tell you, going back to the album in preparation for this episode, I was like, whoa, you were not wrong about putting it. You were not wrong about putting this on the shelf because it's just, yeah, the emotions are so visceral and so raw. It's almost like listening to someone like pick away at a psychic or emotional scab a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And it's really, really tough. But you said that you're a little bit closer to understanding maybe the layers of this album. So when we pick our songs that are in the running for the nominations, I think both of us are going to try to maybe a month removed from the album,

maybe get into a little bit of what we found out about the album because on this new listen like you, I'm like, I think I get some of the things that I didn't before. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I think what I've been really interested in watching is like Kendrick post album release where essentially he has said nothing about the album. But now he is doing live performances. And with Kendrick, the live performances always kind of give you a little bit more context

to what he's doing on the album, you know, specifically. he has the now infamous like crown of jewels or the the jesus crown made out of diamonds um he's doing some very dramatic stuff on stage and he's kind of you know in between songs giving us little glimpses of like you know a little bit more insight into like what these songs in this album was doing um still though i mean comparatively to his past work i think we've always gotten at least like one or two pretty long form interviews from Kendrick post release but he has literally said

really nothing. No profiles, no covers, no nothing. And like even his team has been silent. So like even trying to research like any background info for this album has been very tough. There's just literally nothing that I found. So that, that, I mean, part

of me likes that. Like, I like when artists just like give us the work and kind of force us to do the work. but on the other hand with a project like this I do think it would have been nice to like hear from it and maybe we'll get that eventually

but it just doesn't seem like that's where he's going like you're so much of this stop ducking the smoke come on well I mean so much of the album is like

let's get into it yeah yeah yeah yeah but let's save that I have some thoughts on that but let's save it for the for the main body so for those that have forgotten

or are listening for the first time Yo, the rules of last song standing are pretty simple. This game is not complicated, but it is very tough. Each episode, we cover one album and are forced to crown the last song standing. That means we can choose one song off each album. The one we think is better than the rest. Then at the end of the season, we're going to have a Royal Rumble, y'all, where we're going to bring the best songs we've chosen from each album.

And we're going to duke it out until we both can agree on what is the single greatest Kendrick Lamar song of all time. Cole, did I get all the rules out there? I feel like for people who are like, people are confused. Every episode, Cole and I are just going to pick our favorite Kendrick song, our best Kendrick song off this album, okay?

And at the end of the season, both of us are going to argue. We're going to argue a lot, okay? That's going to be a monster of an episode. Oh, it might ruin our friendship. All right, y'all, we're going to argue. going to get into the album right after this break. Stay tuned. All right, yo, Cole, are you ready to maybe give the listeners a little bit of background on Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers? Yeah, let's do it.

All right, so this is Kendrick's fifth studio album. It was released on May 13th, 2022. It features appearances from Blass, Summer Walker, Sanfa, Kodak Black, Baby Kim, and more. It's Kendrick's first double album, 18 tracks split evenly between the A side, Mr. Morow and the B side the big steppers. So far, the project has only spawned two singles and 95 in Thailand Hill and debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, selling 295,000 album equivalent units in its first week. Yo, Cole, can you walk us through maybe some of the themes and kind of the narrative of this project? I'm going to try my best because it is, like I said, there is a lot on this album. I'm still wrapping my head around it, but kind of the like the reductive version of

how I'm conceptualizing this album is an extended therapy session presented as a theatrical play. Oh, I like that. So that's kind of like, yeah, that's kind of how I'm trying to conceptualize it. I think very early on, Kendrick reveals a big secret. He has this

secret sex addiction, and we find out that he's been cheating on his longtime partner and now mother of his children, Whitney, who also plays a role in this album. And that's kind of the big revelation. and I think in order he kind of, in order to break free from this addiction and as a new father who does not want to pass down what he is dubbing a generational curse to his new children, he needs to look deep within himself in order to get to the root of his trauma that is causing this sex addiction. With the encouragement of Whitney, he goes to therapy and the therapist is played by a spiritual teacher.

German spiritual teacher named Eckhart Tolle. He's pretty well known in pop culture. He's associated with Oprah now. But through some of the main ideas of Eckart Tolle, Kendra kind of traces back sex addiction back to his childhood and some trauma that he experienced when he was young. Specifically with his mother, he saw his mother abused, physically abused in front of him and felt guilt over that. He also learns that his mother was sexually abused. And he kind of puts it, all together and kind of confronts it soberly, which is like a big theme, like stripping off all the masks that we're wearing, how do we confront trauma in order to, you know, perpetuate a better future for our children? And, you know, as it's presented on the album, he does that. At the end, you know, we hear from his children directly and they thank him for, you know, breaking this generational curse along with Whitney. And then parallel to this personal narrative, I think, is like, this idea of Kendrick taking off the crown. Like we talked about last episode on Good Kid Mad City,

you know, that's when he kind of annoys himself as this generational leader, someone who is going to lead his people to a better future, essentially. And, you know, now on this album, it's kind of interesting to do these albums back to back. Like, he is very deliberately taking that crown off. I am not your savior. Yeah, he says it directly. I'm not your savior. I think those are the main ideas.

There's a lot of other stuff I'm sure we're going to get to, but I think that's, I don't know, how's that sounding to you? Is that kind of capture it in your mind? Sounds beautiful. I gave you that part of the podcast because I did not want to contend with everything that happened.

It was wonderful, Cole. I couldn't have done better myself. Now, to our point, last week, we had Damn That's Wild, which is our segment,

where we give y'all some trivia and facts about this album before this podcast. both Cole and I were kind of commiserating a little bit because we're just like, there's no trivia for, or there's very little trivia for this album. Because very few of like the producers or like the rappers or singers or anybody who's touched this album has said anything about it. But Cole, you told me before the show you were able to, you know, for our listeners, dig up a few trivia facts from me.

So in this segment, you're going to ask me some questions. I'm going to try to answer and we're going to learn about the album together, y'all. all right first question it's broad but what is kendrick's favorite line of the entire album he put this on record in that spotify

so the only like documentation of this album we have is Spotify did a day in the life of gana it's like a five minute documentary and he says like three sentences in it but he does reveal in that what his favorite line of the entire album is do you remember

my memory is so I watched the documentary and I can't recall it. I'm going to guess though. Bitch, are you happy for me? I think technically that's baby Keams line. It was a guess. I'm sorry.

I'll give you, I'll give you, let me give you two clues. It's on father time. That's your first clue. Ooh, father time. And, okay, so I'll just give you the second clue at the same time. It's actually not

a rap bar. Oh, is it the intro with Whitney? Yeah. You really need some therapy. Real nigger, no therapy. Fuck you talking about. Is that that part? That's the line.

Yeah. All right. Cool, cool, cool. That was a good line. I do remember him talking about that. Let's not spoil it because, you know, father time might be in the running for some nomination. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was good, Cole. All right. Give me your second. Give me your second. Number two. Number two. Okay, so on the song Savior, Kendrick says,

Braun made you give him his flowers, but he's not your savior. This is actually not the original line that was slotted in this spot. He actually dubbed over the original line sometime between recording it originally and then when the album released because we had a leak of the original. So who does Kendrick reference in the slot where he now references LeBron? Ooh, this is tough. I think you can be, think about who else he references. And I think you might be able to get it.

He references himself, J. Cole, Future. and who's the logical fourth person there. I'm going to say Drake. Close, not Drake. Kanye? Yeah, Kanye. He says, Yay said to speak loud, but he is not your savior. Why do you think he replaced it with Braun?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if he was unhappy with Yee said to speak loud if that was just not strong enough, or if something happened, because Kanye was very loud. I am assuming during this, part where he's finishing up the album. Maybe he did something in that time that he didn't want

to reference Kanye in the album, although he does reference him on like father time. So I don't know. I don't know. What do you think? Any ideas? I don't have any ideas, but I will say that line, the brawn line always kind of, it's me the wrong way because I'm just like, all right, we have a basketball player and then the rest of rappers. So I was just like, the magically, I'm just like, I get what you're trying to say, but because there's only one basketball player and the, Wester rappers. Every time I listen to it, I'm just like, hmm.

So this is actually a very good trivia point because I was just like, I'm glad that I was not, you know, wild for thinking that. Yeah. I mean, the bra. I mean, if the brawn line's fine for me, but now knowing that it was originally Kanye, it just makes, to me, the Kanye one just makes way more sense. Way more sense. I think it's way more relevant too, which that's what makes me wonder like, yeah, if Connie did something that Kendrick disagreed with because the Braun one, yeah, it's not. not as universal as Kanye. All right, question three.

I was really kind of struggling to give this third question here. But are you familiar with Thundercat? Kind of, yeah. I know his music. Not a fan. He's not bad.

I'm just... Not your, yeah. So he's a really good bass player. He's... Yep. He was featured heavily on... Tipima Butterfly. But he actually does...

I didn't know this until I was researching. He does play on two of the songs on Mr. Moral. Do you have any idea? what two songs he might play on. He's known for his, like, very groovy, uh, groovy bass lines. Uh, rich spirit?

No. All right. I'm gonna go worldwide steppers. No. What is it? So, number one is die hard. Damn. So you can kind of hear it there. That's a very good groove, like very, I don't know, a very musical song.

And then the second one is savior, uh, which I would not have expected at all. But apparently he's playing bass on there. To be fair, to be fair to me, it is very, very rough for me. Like, there are songs on this. I just don't remember. Like, it's still so fresh and so new. I have, like, my three or four picks that I go back to and I'm just like, these are my jams. The rest of them, some of these songs, I'm like, I'm... There's a lot of songs. And, I mean, song titles are tough, too, nowadays, for me,

at least. Like, because you've got to be, like, constantly looking at your phone to learn the song titles. But yeah, let's get into the songs because I'm really curious to hear your picks. Like, I'm so curious to hear your picks. This is going to be really good. So, yo, now that we set up the history, the themes, we've got a little bit of trivia of Mr. Moray and the big steppers, it is officially time to move on to the next segment of the show. I'm talking about our nomination. to Pimp a Butterfly, Kendrick Lamar. Remember, the goal of each episode of L.W.S. is for Cole and I to determine the single best song from a Kendrick album.

The songs we select over the course of the season will then duke it out in the season finale Royal Rumble, where we will be forced to agree on the last song standing, a.k.a. the single best Kendrick Lamar song of all freaking time. Right now, we're each nominating what songs from Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers should be in the running and why, Cole, I'm actually going to... You take the first one. Yeah, I'm going to say, I went first last time, so it's all you. All right.

I'm curious. Wait. Should I try to guess? Let me try to guess real quick. Okay, my first guess would be Purple Hearts. Here's the thing, Cole. You're wrong, and you want to know why? Okay, why?

I got daddy issues. That's on me. Father time. Yeah, okay. Is the song. I love my father for telling me to take off the class because everything he didn't want was everything I was. Until my pilots that figured it out without a father.

I love this song. Father time to me holds a special place in my heart in terms of listening to this album because I don't think that it's the most complicated song, but it is the most straightforward song in the album, which to me is of its benefit, where it's like you can tell immediately what. what this song is about. It is about something that I think a lot of people can relate to,

especially when they go to therapy, is that therapists always want to know about who came before, your parents. Or do you have, they always ask, do you have, did you have a good relationship with your parents? Do you have a bad relationship with your parents? And it's funny when, because we did Good Kid Mad City last episode, I don't know about you, but like I envision Kendrick's father as, this really like good-hearted almost like sitcom dad almost like cool what like tell the listeners

who may have not listened to Good Kid Mad City like his dad actually comes off very very nice yeah it's like a cartoon character in that like he's very funny he plays like a comedic role on the album but then and you don't get any of the stuff that we hear on father time and then like he's very pivotal in like the the resolution of good kid of him like saying like what being real is, you know, real as being about your family. Like, he's the one giving Kendrick the lessons. So, yeah, I agree. Like, it's funny to trace Kendrick's relationship, at least in his art, from Good Kid to now,

where it's like, yeah, he can, he can kind of, like, you know, show their good sides on Good Kid Mad City. But we all know, like, parents are much more complicated than that one, that image that he's showing on Good Kid as, as these really, like really great parents. And that's not, I mean, this is like, I think a very interesting part about like his kind of exploration of parents on this album is that, I don't know, I said at a certain point in like adulthood, especially like as a father now, like, you really reckon with your parents as human

beings. I think as, as young people, we really want to see them as, you know, superheroes. But the older you get, you start to see their flaws and how those flaws affected you. and it's like you don't want to blame them because they're human, but seeing them as human is like very painful. So that's kind of like, I'll let you take the floor again about father time, but I think that's a definitely interesting element about this. I couldn't agree with you more, Cole.

I think what's so funny about good kid is that it really is a teenage, Kendrick having almost this wide eye memory of his parents. Right. But throughout this, not just his father, but his mother, he's dealing with not only how they raised him and maybe some of the things that they put him through, but also what they had to go through. And to your point about parents, it's funny, Kendrick is 35 now. And I do have, I've gone through it in my own life where you start to see your parents as these super flawed human beings, which is so hard.

because once you get to that place where it's like, oh, this person that I thought was infallible or this person that I felt like had all of the answers to life didn't, and they lived a rich life before me. I think he's touched upon that and damn on Duckworth. Like, this is a human who had a rich, complicated life before me. They've loved, they've lost, they've hurt people, they've hurt me. And now is someone who is, like, conscious in the world, who has a job, who has people he needs to feed and take care of.

you start thinking of how am I potentially going to mess up my kids? How am I going to fail my partner? How am I going to fail my family and people in my life? And that's what I think is so strong about father time. And it starts at that beginning where Kendrick, like he's, let's talk about. Like he's so disgusted about the concept of going to therapy. You know what I mean? And I think that actually builds on kind of the generational trauma of it.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, Kendrick's so calculated, and there is a reason he says, real N-words don't go to therapy in the beginning of this song particularly, and then he goes in to explain why, how he developed that mindset, because therapy equals vulnerability, therapy equals introspection, and then he lays out, here's all the things that I learned from my father who taught me, who saw the vulnerability, who saw the sensitive kid, and then tried to make me tough. And that's why I don't, I mean, essentially that's why I'm avoiding therapy. That's why I'm avoiding looking in my past too deeply because I don't want to be vulnerable. And like, I mean, he's spelling it out for us. And I think like what I really appreciate about

this song, how universal it is. I mean, I think obviously he's centering his own father, but also like common scenarios in the black community. He even, you know, he dresses like. You know who I thought about every single time I hear that first verse I think about Kobe. Like I just think about like having a father who's really into sports and how that metaphor plays out of like competition right yeah of competition where it's like Kendra could have picked any memory

he had but by using sports something to your point that is so universal he's telling us the story of like the basketball in this situation is a stand in for how a lot of times toxic masculinity forces an older man to teach his younger charges like

hey there's like the old the old Tom Hanks line. There's no crying in baseball. You know, that's basically what this song's about. And what I want to zero in on is that repetition of the line, I got daddy issues that's on me because it's so funny, because it's almost delivered with this chip on his shoulder where if you listen to the rest of the song,

it's actually Kendra coming to terms with the fact that it's not all on him, where this is something that has been plaguing his family, not only his family, but so many families. So when he wraps, his mama died, asking why he going back to work so soon. His first reply was, son that's like the bill's got no silver spoon. And it kind of shows you how this is also something

that's hyper specific to the black community where when you're so, when you're so laser focused on surviving, when you just need to get to the next day, you just need to get to the next page. check when you don't have generational wealth. There's not that time for introspection. So that disgust that Kendrick has the thought of his wife being like you need to go

to therapy comes from the fact that like this is generations upon generations of being like, I don't need therapy. I just need to go to work and provide. That's enough. By the end of this song, you do get Kendrick actually kind of having a mini breakthrough being like, actually, no, I need to go fix myself. I have to be better for the women in my life. I have to be better for these people in my life.

And that's why I love this song. But before we get to your pick, Cole, I have to do this. Are you ready? Okay, okay. We have to talk about my favorite line on this song. Okay. I got a favorite line too, but yeah, let me hear it. What Kanye got back with Drake?

I'm slightly confused. Can I describe to you why this is my favorite line? All right. To know the disgust that Kendrick had. on his face when he saw that Instagram picture of Kanye and Drake together. He was just like I'm so tired he's

motherfucker. He was just like the sheer level of like oh how dare to his face. I love it because it's such a funny line because it's a joke. Like Kendrick is joking because what comes after is he's like guess I'm not as mature as I think I got some

healing to do. Right. He's tying it back to how like even rap now if like the first verses about like, oh, basketball of this competition, nothing is more competitive. There's no musical genre to me that is more competitive than rap. Right. But I got to be honest with you, Cole, were you disgusted when Connie got back with Drake? I thought it was really corny.

The whole thing was, because here's the thing, like the beef never felt real to me. It felt like a very convenient beef as both of them were dropping big albums. And as soon as both albums dropped and their rollout was. complete, they centered themselves in a reunion that just felt like a plan the whole time. And that's why I didn't really like it. It just felt like we all, I always felt like, of course they're going to reunite at some point. Of course this drama is like public for a reason. Of course, they're promoting their album through this drama. So I did watch like the concert. I thought I had some cool moments, but the whole thing felt just kind of corny to me. And this is coming from

I'm a big Kanye fan and a mediocre Drake fan. But yeah, I don't know, like the whole, like, I don't know, is that how it came up to you? Coming from a huge Kanye fan and a huge Drake fan, I was like, enough. Like, you too. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to hear you ever again. Because, like, I feel like their beef at one point was real.

But to your point, at a certain, like, at a certain, you know, it became wrestling. Yeah, it was wrestling. I'm just like, dog, leave us alone. Leave us alone. Yeah, exactly. I never want to hear about this beef again. Just go away.

But that is my first nomination. Father time. Take it away, Cole. What's your first nomination? Yeah, well, I got to just point out very quickly, because I think it's key to some stuff I'm going to say later. But the very end of this song, I think, is so crucial to the crux of this album. Because he says, it's crucial.

They can't stop us if we see the mistakes till then let's give the women a break, grown men with daddy issues. Like, to me, that is the album. If you're looking for, like, one, like, explanation of the. album, it's that. It's like, I need to deal with my issues and that I am taking out on the women in my life. And then you can trace that back. If we talk about Mother Sober, like, he is, he's realizing that the parallels between his father, I think abusing his mother is what he kind of alludes to on Mother Sober. And then him not abusing physically, Whitney, but like

abusing her in another way by cheating on her. And I think that revelation at the end of daddy issues is so, so critical to the album. And then the way that he specifically calls out, let's give women a break. That to me is so crucial. I couldn't agree with you more. I just have to say, and I've said it all this time, I think you were absolutely right. But Kodak Black coming right after this song is tough. It's like, is a moment where I'm like, Kendrick, Mark, my God.

Dude, we are not going to relitigate it. If you want to hear my thoughts about this, go read my piece on ringer.com or go listen to our Instagram on Dissect. With that being said, Cole, what is your first nomination of the name? My first nomination is actually my second. I don't want to cry yet.

So I'm going to go ahead and pick United and Grief. What if I call on security? That means I'm calling on God. I'm a parody. I want to get me a therapist. I can debate all my theories and sharing it. Whoa.

I like that all my comparison is humble and love because Tom is imperative. Hell no. This is your first pick? Yeah, it's my first pick. What? You don't like this song? and what is a bitch in a miniskirt?

I'm in his feelings want to be it at her. No. No. You don't like this song? I think the song is like... I'm shocked. Like I...

Dude, you're my, like, you're my bro. I, like, I love you, Cole. I'm shocked. Explain. You have to explain. All right. So, thinking back to like what we talked about last week, what makes Kendrick, what's the best, you know, what's the criteria for best Kendrick song?

I explained it was, you know, conceptual was first, lyrical cadence, flow, a second, and production third. And I think this song hits like all of those points with like flying colors. So musically, I would, you can easily make a case that this is his most ambitious song in his entire discography. Like musically, it is doing so much. There's multiple flows, all of them virtuosic. There are multiple key changes, tempo shifts, multimeter shifts, like from a technical aspect, which I no, you know, it's not a necessity, but like, I can go, I can do like easily two hours on this

explaining all the music stuff that he's doing. Lyrically, I think it like sets up the entire album. Um, like he talks about going to therapy. He talks about the sex addiction. He lays it all out for us in this like very like world building way. Like he's introducing us to this album. Um, so if we're talking about Kendrick's best song, again, he's hitting all those criteria and if I can just hone in like on a few lines that I think really exemplify this, it would have to be like

the main refrain, I grieve different. Like to me, again, if we're looking for like nuggets that could represent the theme of this album, I grieve different is just so critical. Like here's all the ways that we deal with our trauma and like externalize our trauma and how it manifests in the world and our behavior. he talks about his sex edition and his and his materialism that he hid from us and just that refrain of him like screaming out i grieve different is just so powerful to me

and then the title united a grief i think really captures a lot about this album and particularly like his influence of ecart tolle so i think there's like two main ideas that he's taking from ecart tole on this album one is this idea of like universal consciousness that you know all people on earth are connected and not only that we're connected with the entire universe like we're just an extension like neon genesis evangelian i guess i don't know what you're talking about wait you wait wait do you watch anime cole i don't actually i've been wanting to get into it but i have not watched any anime i've never seen a single anime movie all right watch me some homework you gave me some homework okay you gave me some homework last week, which I think you're going to bring that. So maybe my homework is to watch whatever

movie you just said. Oh, it's, all right, there are movies, but it's a TV show first call. All right, continue. I'm sorry for Sondra. Okay, that's okay. So United in Grief, universal consciousness, I'm going to quote Eckhart Tolle here. Each individual is an expression of the collective consciousness of humanity, and a collective consciousness of humanity is an expression of the one universal consciousness. So this idea that we're all connected and, You can't, and I think this is what Kendrick is trying to do on the album, specifically Kodak Black. You can't separate, like, if we're all united and we're all an expression of, like, humanity, you can't, like, disregard or discount or see the behavior of others as separate from yourself.

You have to see it as, like, this more universal thing, and it kind of leads to more empathy, which maybe we'll talk about later. But so there's this one idea. That's the united and united grief. In grief is this idea of the pain body, which is another very fundamental idea of Eckart Tolle, which I'll quote directly again, every emotional pain that you experience leaves behind a residue of pain that lives on in you, emerges with the pain from the past, and becomes lodged in your mind and body. This includes the pain you suffered as a child, caused by the unconsciousness of the world in which you are brought into. Once the pain body has taken you over, you want more pain.

You become a victim or a perpetrator. you want to inflict pain or you want to suffer pain or both there isn't really much of a difference between the two so again united and grief we're getting the two central concepts from ecartoli in this title that you can really just use as like an umbrella to inform your entire interpretation of this album um but beyond that i just loved the song like i remember the like the why i asked you like the first time you heard the song i was so fucking confused i was like what is going on You get that kind of like big intro, I hope you find some peace of mind.

And then it goes into like these weird piano chords, you know, that. And Kendrick's saying, I'm going through something. And then it goes into this crazy like breakbeat. And then it goes into like these soft piano chords over the breakbeat. And it's just like, what is fucking happening here? I'm going to be honest with you, Cole. I loved it so much.

I got to sit Kendrick down. I'm going to sit him and baby Kim down. We're going to have an intervention, okay? I never want to hear another beat switch from those mob foxes. What? I never want to hear. Oh my God. Why?

Like here's the thing. I love a good beat switch. I love a good beat switch. But beat switch is just kind of like, it's nice to have. It's like nice to have once or twice on an album. Once that is happening like every other song, I'm like, yo, bro, my man, slow down. Okay. Dumping a bunch of ketchup on my on my burger.

I'm like, can I have some burger with this, please? But you're right from a technical standpoint. It's just like I can't give this song. I can't give this song everything because I just hate that opening so much. Really? Great some of me. His voice doesn't do anything for me on this song. This is where, okay, this is where we differ because I love, like, what I want more from hip-hop is like more beat switches.

Like more, give us more unpredictable. Like, because it's like sometimes, I mean, especially now, not to sound like an old man, on the lawn, but like, like, the way, the, how formulaic these beats, particularly in trap music, have become. And this is, like, it's not actually an indictment of trap music. This is what happens when any style of music becomes the norm. People just try to emulate it really lazily. So it's like, we, we get this just, like, one sample, one 808 bass drum loop. And it's just, like, that's all you hear for the entire song. Like, I want some, like, surprise me. Like, take, like, take me on a journey. And that's what I, that's, that's what I love about United and Grieve. It might be like too much,

but I love the fact that Kendrick just like went there and like when we're talking about like, what's the best Kendrick Lamar song, name another artist that can make this song. Like, there is not a single artist living that can, can make this song. Oh, it. All right. All right, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, call. Name it. We have to relax. There are so many, young thug could do this shit. Okay. Kanye could do this shit. Okay, Kanye, Maybe, but Connie cannot rap like this. Vince could do this shit. Production-wise, Kanye,

Connie cannot wrap this, though. He can get, he can guess I hide the Princeton. It'll be fine. Vince could do this shit. Like, come on, like, come on. A bunch of people could do this. The reason they don't is, I disagree. Here's the thing.

I have nothing against beat switches, like, as a four. I think they're dope when they happen. My problem with Kendrick is sometimes I'm like, yo, man, I barely like the first song. Now you're doing a switch. Like, dog, just make it too. songs at that point. You're ruining the song I do, like with the one I don't.

Okay, so I'm guessing this was not on your list. Hell no. And I forget to say, Father Time was on my list. It was third on my list. So we did agree there. But we did not agree on United in Grief. It's fine. So let's recap.

So we both have Father Time. Right. You have United in Grief. Should I do my second? Yeah, let's do your second. All right. So this is my second. All right.

despite trying my hardest, this song has grown on me, okay? This song has helped me get into the mindset of Kyrie Irving, which I don't know what I feel about, but my second nomination is N95. Oh shit. Okay. You went there. Take off the foo-foo. Take off the couch.

Take off the Wi-Fi. Take off the money phone. Take off the car loan. Take off the flex and the white loss. Take off the weird ass jury. I'm going to take 10 steps. Then I'm taking off top of. This is what I'm really curious about.

Can you, would you be able to pick a song that you philosophically disagree with what he's saying in that song? Because that's kind of what I feel like is going on here. Can you separate yourself from that? Cool. I am, for the bulk of my working career, I have been a rap writer. My entire job is quite literally predicated on my ability to be like, just don't think about it too hard. If you stare at this too long, you will hate it. not just rappers, every musician, nearly every musician has some politics that I'm like, I fundamentally don't agree with this and this makes me feel disgusting, but to do my job effectively in this world, I just have to like push it to this side. That's good.

Okay, that's good. Yeah, yeah. And that's exactly to your point, what I had to do with N95. I think it is the perfect example of Kendrick's hypocrisy. And I love it for that. Like, I absolutely love it for that because it fits it to this theme of Kendrick being like, guys, I'm not your savor. Cut it out.

Because this song, he says, quote, take off the weird-ass jewelry. My man Kendrick out here wearing a $3 million pound made by Tiffany and Co. I'm like, if you don't sit your black ass down, Kendrick, like, God damn, bro. He says, take off the Chanel, take off the Dolce, take off the Birken bag, take off that designer bullshit. And what do you have? Kendrick, why the fuck did I wake? up on my timeline to performing at the Louis Vuitton show at Paris Fashion Week, bro. Like, come

on. But then once I started thinking about it, I was like, Charles, this man did tell you, he's not your savior. Let him be a hypocrite, bro. It's fine. It's fine. I'm a hypocrite too. I love it. But I think that this song is probably the one that's the most immediate. It's definitely why they filmed a music video for it. Because in an album that is very, very, very, very, very, very, heavy. There aren't, there aren't many songs on this like a humble where you can really just throw it on and be like, all right, I just want to listen to Kendrick rap over a really aggressive beat. I love the beautiful kind of like main synth melody on this, on this track. And the thing that I want to point out too is that Kendrick employs three flows on this song, maybe even more.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he changes them on each verse. So the first verse, he has his very very like staccato delivery coupled with the repetition of that. Take it off. Yeah. Then on this second verse, he dips into a double time flow. And then on the third verse, it's almost like he merges the two because he's rapping in a higher register, but he's doing the double time flow with a more staccato delivery. And when I was like, listen to it, I'm like, dog, like, Kendrick really does think three dimensionally when he's writing. And that's what I love about this song, because you could write it off as like, oh, this is Kendrick's like flexing song.

But when you really, really look at it from an artistic lens and you don't stare at the lyrics too long, I'm like what he's doing as a performance is so great. Because I do think the thing that I ended up loving about Kendrick, the more and more I listen to albums is he really does use his entire voice. He will rap in higher register. He'll make his voice croaky. He'll rap super, super fast and super, super super super super. slow in a way that most rappers just are not capable of. And I think N95 is just a perfect explanation of that. Yeah, for a single, like what I love about this song, for the, essentially the only single, or the big single, it is such a weird song. Like, if you break it down the form of it is really interesting. It's not like your typical verse, chorus, verse chorus, to your point. Like, it's almost like this one big build with like highs and lows. And, super unpredictable where the beats gonna go but it all feels very cohesive um it's a very much like like we talked about last last uh episode with swimming pools it's like this is my single um yeah

and for for the the only single so far on this album to be n95 it's pretty progressive in terms of like everything he's doing in his single and it's definitely like there's not all the songs on this album i think are from the heart and i don't think he was really worried about singles and sales as much or if at all, especially comparatively to like, damn, his last project. And so I love, I love, I love when singles can, like, transcend the form. Like, when they could work and they are accepted by the masses, like, this song is, but it's not, like, your typical verse chorus, just, like, get me out.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, he's doing so much technically, but also found a way to make it work commercially. I think that's super rare and it speaks to like just his, I mean, that's, if we're talking about his greatest skills, like, this almost made my list just for that reason because it was the single and it was because it was like so experimental and different. And I think if we're talking about what Kendrick and Lamar is and what he represents, it's exactly that. It's someone that found this very, very difficult balance of like commercial appeal with like progressive experimental like production and flow and all that. So I love. love this song. I didn't pick it, but it was like very, very close with father time. I was debating between that and father time. So I'm glad we talked about it. So before we get into our third, we both have one pick left. Can I give you my trolling? My trolling for this week. Cole. I've sat on this. I've sat on this take. I love the dissect listeners. Thank you guys so much for welcoming with open arms. Those of y'all who are on my lawn with

bitch forks is for you. I think Drake's house record, honestly, never mind, is objectively a better album. Don't fucking say it. Like, I actually,

like, honestly, never mind. Oh, my God. Where do I even start? Like, okay,

give me, like, what are your, give me some bullet points, like, back this up, because I, this is,

like, hurting my brain. So, here's the thing. There are records that are, more, that are doing something that are more important. Okay. You can make the argument that what Mr. Moral is trying to unpack is more important.

I do think that there is more important. Let me finish. I do think there's another thing where it's just like, okay, something can be important, but A, if you don't want to listen to it that much, it can kind of get dinged. B, if the thing that it's trying to do, it fails at, which is like, this isn't, This is an album I really, really enjoy, but I do think that, like, Kendrick is trying to unpack generational trauma. He's trying to unpack issues within how straight people view the trans community. There is sexual abuse and sex addiction, all of these things.

I'm not saying he fails at all of them, but he definitely stumbles his way through. And you get dinged. Even though it's important, the execution isn't always there. and the reason I personally, like honestly, never mind better, is that A, I want to listen to it more. B, I think it's actually a bigger risk than this album is because for Drake to one day wake up and decide he's like, yo, I'm going to make a house in Jersey slash Baltimore club record. I would have looked at him if I'm his boy. I'm like, dude, what? Like, just get back in the booth and rap.

There's money, bro. And he does it. And I'm not saying that album is perfect. That album is very, very flawed. But I keep going back to it. And I'm just like, yeah, he did the thing. He did the thing that I wanted. He risked it all.

I love that album. That's not me saying I dislike Mr. Morow. But I ding it because this album is so thorny and so complicated and kind of fails in ways to your point, can you like songs that you fundamentally disagree with? There are so many on this album where I, like, fundamentally just disagree as a human. where I'm just like, I think honestly nevermind is better. Okay, here's my response to that. Would you rather have a perfectly executed McDonald's cheeseburger

or a slightly overcooked filet mignon? Where are we? Like, at my high? Is this 3 a.m. in the morning? Like, is it a night out at the club? Like, here's the thing. I get what you're trying to see. never, never called Drake

a McDonald's Cheeseburger again with all of the great music he's ever given us. I think it is like what vibe you're in and I don't know if you've seen what's been happening on the Supreme Court but I'm just like dude the world is fucking burning fuck this country and I'm just want to listen to Drake

I get that aspect for sure like I think Tyler the creator like said something really smart about this album with Mr. Morale specifically is like he's like people aren't playing Mr. Morale because it's like he's looking you in the eye and you don't always want to be looked in like you don't always want to like have to like when you're listening to music a lot of people probably majority of people listen to the music for escape to put them in a better mood I'll give you that Drake is going to do that way more than Kendrick ever will like that is Drake's brilliance he gives us really great escape music that's easy to put on in the background it's not going to get to too deep into emotions. It's just, I mean, that's why I kind of, I mean, maybe McDonald's

Cheeseburg is a little harsh, but it's like, can I give you a metaphor that you probably want to understand? Because you have a fresh cut today. I do, yeah. And this will be my last point of it. You want to know what Kendrick is like, Kendrick is like how I feel after I go to a hotep barber where I'm going to feel great after this. I'm going to get a great haircut.

I'm going to feel great about myself. But to go here, I'm going to have to hear a bunch of people arguing about. how we were kings. And I'm just like, yes, we were. I understand that. Can I get my Caesar and leave? That is like, that is sometimes what it's like to listen to Kendrick. Whereas with Drake, it's just like, hey, yo, y'all want to go out and have some drinks and get tonight?

And I'm like, absolutely, yes, I want to do that. That sounds like. I get it. All right. I get it. But we're going to stop talking about Drake on this podcast. Cole has had enough. We're going to wrap this up by going to round three, okay, to recap.

Both of us agreed. First nomination, Father Time. Cole and I diverged, round two. United in grief was his pick, and I picked N95. And I have a feeling for round three, Cole. It seems like we're both agreeing what it is. All right. Should we go to a break first? Leave them in suspense? Yeah, let's go to a break first,

and then we will be back to talk about our final pick of today. All right, we're back, and it's time for the final song nominations from Mr. Morow and the big Steppers, Cole. What's your final pick? It's going to be the lowest streamed song from this album. Mother I Sober. I asked my mama why she didn't believe me when I told her no. I never knew she was violated in Chicago.

I'm sympathetic. Told me that she feared it happened to me. Okay, we're twins. I actually didn't know that this is the lowest stream song, but it makes sense, right? It makes so much sense because I think I texted you being like before this. I'm like, dude, I can't listen to. mother eyes over. Like I literally like just like emotionally right now

I'm not in the mood because it's just so much. But why did you pick this song? Okay, so it's beautiful. Like it's beautiful. It is gorgeous. Like I, it's just, it's the thing about me. It's the

how much a dollar cost. It's the fear of this album. It's the catharsis. It's the moment of breakthrough. It wraps up the entire album. But just from an emotional, like the last time last episode i talked about you know criteria for kendrick's back song and i gave all this technical stuff but like at the end of the day it's got to have that just unexplainable emotional connection and like yeah of all the songs on this album it is like on my list of immediate tears or not

immediate tears but inevitable tears when i listen to it which is why i think it's the lowest stream's song on spotify because i skip this song regularly when i'm listening to this album and i love it It's probably my favorite song on the album, but it's like, you just can't listen to it all the time. But I think it's doing, like I said, so much. Obviously, I think if anyone that's listened to the song knows the content. The general story here is that he's dealing with trauma from his childhood, specifically with his mom, seeing his mom physically abused at age five and him feeling guilt for not doing anything about it, which is just like so fucking sad.

And then because like it's one thing to see your mom go through that, another thing to feel guilt over it as a five-year-old, like fuck. And then the second half of it is like Kendrick's mom revealing that she was sexually abused as well and then asking Kendrick regularly if he was sexually abused by a family member, which is like you just imagine like this kid going through this is like so fucking heartbreaking. and I don't know but then like he brings Whitney into it too so it's like we're talking about

father time kind of giving us the psychological reasons why men often take out their trauma as you know this toxic masculinity on the women in their life and the way that this comes back with mother in the title

kind of giving us the reasons for it with his own mother but then also Whitney calling her like the pure soul I know like shot out like need to give Whitney her flowers because the way that she is presented on this album and like the what she did to keep this family together being big enough to like see past her own hurt of being cheated on for years to know there was a deeper issue to love Kendrick enough to suggest him like stay with him or at least long term stay with him you know give him a therapist to call like MVP of this album is a hundred percent in my eyes Whitney. Like, I think she deserves her flowers. And if you follow her on Instagram, she's been kind of

revealing some stuff that she went through to get to this point. A very powerful post I suggest everyone go read because, like, she's sharing some of her trauma and what she went through with counseling and stuff. But before I get too far into it, I have some musical stuff I want to kind of go over,

but where are you at? You picked this song, too. So why are you picking this one? So I agree with everything you said. and listening to it again, I finally pulled the trigger. I'm like, all right,

I'm going to listen to it. I'm going to pitch you on something. I have a hotter call take. Oh, good. All right. Is mother the first half of this song? Sober's the second half. Because on the beginning,

he's talking about those first, like, two verses. Like, he's talking about three generations of mothers, really, when you think about it throughout the whole album. He's talking about his grandmother. He's like, my mother's mother followed me for years in her afterlife,

staring at me. me on on back of some buses. I wake up at night. So he's quite literally documenting everything that these women have been through to your point a lot of times at the hands of men. And like that first half of the song is really, really, really reckoning with in the same time that father time, he's reckoning with his father. On this one, he's reckoning with like, what are the women and more specifically the mothers

in my life? What did they have to gone through? and why am I in a lot of way still contributing to that, where I think there is some of that guilt of Kendrick being like, wait, I'm putting Whitney through the same things or similar things that I've had to watch my mother go through, and probably her mother had to go through. But then it's that second half, which is the sober half,

which he's talking throughout this album of doing things with a sober mind. And the third verse is really when he's getting into this. deepest vices. He said, quote, I did it sober, sitting with myself. I went through all emotions, no dependents, except for one. Let me bring you closer. And he's talking about his lustful nature, his insecurities that he's projecting, sleeping with these other women. So once I started thinking of mother sober, because sometimes it's hard to wrap your head around, because to your point, he's rapping about so many different things. It's rapping about his mom's sexual abuse, the fact that she's questioning whether he got abuse. He's talking about physical abuse. He's talking

about abuse in terms of like consistently cheating on a partner. But when I thought about it in terms of like, okay, if this is him going to therapy, the first half of it is the therapist question, tell me about your parents, tell me about your grandparents, tell me about the mothers in your life. And the second half is Kendrick finally doing, I did that with my father, I did that with my mother. Now, me in a sober lens, is going to reveal all of the vices that I have. So by the time we get to the end of this of this song and the end of this project, we get to hear his kid's voice. And he's finally all the way through. So like that's also why I wanted to pick father time and mother sober.

Because I feel like they're essentially kind of like two sides of the same coin. Oh yeah, for sure. And this splitting up mother sober into like maybe a front half and a back half of like the mother themes and the sober themes. I got my hand around the song. Yeah. Is this a wild take? No, I don't, I would have to go through specifically and see if there's like that division. Because yeah, I was always confused if it's mother I sober or if it's mother like dividing line sober. So that's what, or it could be both, right?

And I was like, if it's a dividing line, is that him saying, no, there's a mother part that you guys need to focus on? And there's a sober part that you guys need to focus on. Right. Yeah. And I mean, also this speaks to like the connection between father time and mother I sober. It's, I mean, there's, what we should probably mention is, like, the album is a mirror, like, one of the central kind of conceptual structures of the album is this idea of a mirror. You know, there's two discs. Each disc has nine songs on each side, and if you put a mirror in the center of the two discs, they reflect each other. Like, the songs line up, the interludes line up in the exact same position. There's a couple of, like, very clear, like, they, they work as a mirror.

and I think I haven't quite figured it out but I think there's something there where it's like yeah you give it a father time on disc one that is a mere reflection you know this different side of the same coin with mother I sober I think there's a lot of that going on so I get like specific like I don't I'm definitely not like you're crazy because I think that there might be that but I think like you touched on this a little bit

what's really interesting about this song is the way that he tells the story because it's like I think you I think it was you that said it in our initial conversation about this album. Like when you go to therapy, it's like one moment you're talking about your childhood, the next moment you're talking about your current life, the next moment we were talking about 10 years ago, and it's like very scatterbrain, emotionally high and low. And if you like pay attention to how he tells this story,

it's very, very interesting. Because he has these like motifs, like the mother. He has Whitney and he has this idea of, you know, you haven't felt it till you felt it sober. And he kind of like stream of, consciousness goes from like he'll be talking about his mother and then he'll talk about his lawyer and then he'll talk about whitney and he'll talk like he's like it's like very like mosaic like all over the pace like and in the very beginning of the song he says heal myself secrets that i hide

buried in these words death threats ego must die but i let it purge pacify broken pieces of me it was all a blur so one of the things i've been trying to figure out about this album is why it's so in my mind very purposefully all over the place. Like you'll have songs like Worldwide Stepper is very aggressive be followed by diehard, very soft and vulnerable and gentle. And I remember the first time I listened to this album I was like very thrown off by the track order.

It's like very, to my mind, was all over the place. Yeah. But if we're thinking about this album as a mirror, because it is literally a mirror conceptually and it ends in the song mirror, and he's saying this pacified broken pieces of me in this song that is like essentially the key to the resolution of the album,

where often Kendrick will reveal the structure of the album, la la like he does on fear with damn, is like, is conceptually the entirety of Mr. Morrell and the Big Steppers a broken mirror? If Kendrick is looking in the mirror and what he sees is broken, is that reflected in these like shards of different emotions and feelings? This is kind of my hot, my hot or cold take. Like that's kind of where I'm like, it's not fully formed out in my head yet, but that's kind of like what I've realized.

I don't hate this. I don't hate this though. I think you're on to something. I don't hate this take. Okay, okay. This is, this is, it's not a hot take. It's a lukewarm take. It's something that I'm just like, we need to put this on the shelf. I don't think you're wrong. I will say that part of me is thinking that maybe if we're going with a therapy angle, it's so scatterbrain because Kendrick wants us to feel what it is. like for him in therapy to dig up, like to your point where it's like one point he's talking about like his mom asking him about sexual abuse, but then at another point he's talking about his lawyer, want to be more like his lawyer and all this stuff. And I'm just like, oh, is he trying to do what a lot of people do in therapy? What if I've done is like, you remember things that you bury deep when you start talking about them. So it doesn't make narrative sense, but it's like, oh, I said one something in the sentence and now it relates to the other thing and yeah yeah and it's literally your

your heart and soul catching up to your brain in a ways where it's just like oh I said something or I felt an emotion there's a synapsis going off in my brain that's literally like oh now it's time for you to remember this now it's time for you to deal with this right sometimes when I was listening to mother sober I was like maybe that is why I'm like it's so tough to listen because I felt this way. Like I have felt this like, oh, one traumatic event informed another and this other traumatic event that I thought I had dealt with 10 years ago just popped up and I forgot that it was still there.

And that's why I think it has to be on this list is just because, oh, it's so visceral. But before we get to like which songs we're actually picking, can you kind of break down, you were going to do some musical stuff for us? Can you break down what musically is happening in the song? Yeah. So I think a big part of the emotional resonance of the song is not only Kendrick's voice, I think probably most of the work is being done by Kendrick's voice in his storytelling, but in the same way that sing about me evokes a very similar emotional quality with a very laid-back

and subdued production. I think the same thing's happening here. And there's a piano technique that's really cool that I just wanted to point out about this. It's called, you know, Charles, what an inverted pedal point is. I do not. I do not know what an inverted pedal point is. So it's like super music theory geek, but you've heard it. This is why I wanted to point out, because once you can know about it,

you'll be able to, like, hear it in a bunch of different songs. So I'm going to start out explaining the concept using Johnny Cash's Hurt. Are you familiar with that song? The cover of the Nine Inch Nail song. It was pretty big. We'll play a clip of it here and I'm going to break it down on piano. So an inverted pedal point is what's happening on Mother I Sober. It's where essentially you have one note that repeats over and over and over.

And while that one note is repeating, there are different chords moving around it. And so here's what's happening on Johnny Cash's hurt that we just heard. So there's this, this is the pedal point. This is the inverted pedal point, which is just one note over and over, which on its own doesn't really do much, right? It's like there's no context around it. But as soon as you start adding chords and keep that one note consistent, you'll see how it evokes a very meditative, very emotional quality. I don't know, do you feel like a little bit of emotion there? Yeah, I got you.

I got you. So you'll hear it a lot. like Sufion Stevens use it a lot. If you are familiar with the interstellar soundtrack. Oh, yeah, that's all right. So the interstellar thing is like brilliant for some very cool thematic reasons, why they use that, but I won't get into that now. But so back to Mother I Sober, it uses this inverted pedal point.

So we have this repeated C sharp is the pedal tone. And then you have these chords around it. Right. So you're getting that, I don't know. I don't know. Like, what do you, like, to me, it's just. so emotional. Best way I could describe it, it's a very somber feeling.

This is going to sound, everybody can make fun to me for saying this. It's a somber feeling. It almost feels kind of like when you're sitting alone before like a funeral starts. And it's just kind of like everybody's emotional, but there's this feeling in the air that nobody can kind of put their finger on. It almost, you feel kind of suspended in air, suspended in your emotion. So that's like, I love that you said that because like, I didn't want to get too crazy with the theories here. But like one, I guess kind of common description of what this does, like in terms of like a metaphoric description of what this musical technique conveys, is like if you think of yourself as that pedal point that repeated, you know, that repeated note and then the world kind of moving around you, that's kind of a common explanation, a metaphoric explanation for.

for this. And if you're thinking about what this album is doing, Kendrick looking in the mirror, revisiting his past, I mean, even like this, I mean, I'm thinking about it now, like, Mother I sober, this division, that division in the middle, which is an eye and things going around him. I don't know, like, we could probably get really

out there with theories, but like, I think it's a universal, like, musical technique that evokes that somber quality that I wanted to point out because what's really cool is that there's another, there's only one other time that we hear a pedal point in this album

and it's on United in Grief the very first song that sets up in the entire album and it's during the part where he says I grieve different. So we have a pedal point of a C this time just one note away from the pedal point in Mother I sober and So to me

like if we're talking about the beginning of an album and it coming full circle where he is laying out all the stresses and all the ways that this grief has, you know, manifested in his life and his behavior. And then we get, and it's using this musical technique. And he's saying, I, singing, I grieve different over it. You know, I'm grieving through this behavior. And then we get to the resolution of the album where he is addressing that and transforming

himself beyond that. And we're getting that same musical technique that evokes the same emotional quality. Like to me, this is one of those things that's like, maybe. it wasn't intentional, but it was intuitive. Like, there is a connection there. I think it's one of the reasons why when we get to Mother Eye Sober, it feels so conclusive.

Because obviously he's doing a lot of systematically, lyrically, but musically, we also have a very strong connection to the beginning of the album where he's setting this all up. So that's kind of my hot or cold take. Are you buying it? Here's a thing. Cole, for the first time on this podcast

and hopefully not the last. I've officially been dissected. I'm officially my guts are open. I'm with you. That is a hot take. Okay. I'm here. I'm strapped in.

I call bullshit all the time. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, wow. Wow, this is, this is, guys, if you guys feel dissected, y'all let Cole know. You killed that shit. Yo, we've made our picks. All right.

Cole and I both agreed on Father time. We diverged. Cole picked United in grief while your boy, okay? picked at 95 and we came back together as boys to pick Mother I Sober. Now it is time to pick what is going to be our favorite and best, our best Kendrick Lamar song of Mr. Morrell and the Big Steppers. Okay. For those that don't remember, this is officially going to be our last song standing, the one we're going to bring into our season finale, our Royal Rumble. Cole, take us away.

Don't, don't step around. Don't step around. I just convinced myself it's Mother I Sober. I wasn't sure what, like, coming into this if it was going to be, I was kind of tort. Actually, I mean, I think all three have a very strong case for different reasons. I think the only thing with Mother I Sober that counts against it is that it is technically the least successful song on the album in terms of streams. But as we said, I think there is a reason for that. I don't think it's the least successful because it is a bad song.

It's just because it is so powerful, which almost speaks. which almost like benefits its case. So I'm going to go Mother I Sober. It is a song that only Kendrick Kumar can make. It hits all the points, narrative, conceptually, lyrically, production. It's all there. So I'm going Mother Eye Sober, final pick. I love you, Cole.

And as much as you dissected me this episode, I've just been stitched up by the doctor. I cannot pick Mother Eyes Over. I just physically cannot pick Mother Eyes sober. The reason for it is it cannot, to me, in the running for Kendrick Lamar's best song if I physically cannot listen to it. Like that is, that is always going to be the ding about it, where it's just like, even some of Kendrick's most emotional songs, I still think he has a gear in him where he can

make them listenable. And that's not me talking about right, right, right, right, the song being ugly or being bad in any way. It's about like sometimes something is so raw, something is so real and it's just served up to you on a plate. And you're like, I appreciate the art of this. I do, Kendrick, I do. To Tyler's point, you're staring me in the eyes. I'm a little uncomfortable. Can I have something that goes down a little bit more? So my pick, I'm going for other time featuring SAMHFA. I just have to do it. Okay. This is the first time we've disagreed. We're going to disagree a lot more. I just, it just, that's what it has to be. I'm sorry. I know a lot of people would be like, why don't you pick N95?

And I'm like, because I can't. I can't. I just, there's something about me. I just can't do that, all right? As someone who has had COVID a number of times, which is not going to do that. So I'm going to go with Father, Father, Time. I do think it is, yeah, it's just such a real song.

It touches me emotionally. It means a lot to me and so many of the things that I love and have had issues about with Father figures in my life. So this means something to me and it's my list. So I'm going with Father Time. All right. So y'all, that is the second episode of Last Song Standing Down. First episode, Cole and I both agreed that Mad City is the best Kendrick Lamar song on Good Kid Mad City. On this episode, we diverged a little bit. I picked Father Time for the best song off Mr. Morrell and the Big Steppers. My man, Cole, he was brave. He chose Mother I sober. All right, two down.

I don't know about you, Cole. I am no closer to figuring out what the best. Kedric Lamar song is like, I'm feeling okay about my list, but knowing that we cannot go back, we cannot change anything. I'm just like, what if we both made a grief mistake? Yeah, what if United in Grief is the best song after all? I don't know.

That's what we're rapping here. Thank you so much to our producers, Justin Sales and Kevin Pooler, who was doing his, audio production thing. Devinan Ronaldo for the theme music. And please, everyone, go to at Dissect podcast and Charles X Holmes on all the socials, okay? Argue with us. Tell us that we should have chosen Savior for the best song. Be like, y'all are dumb as hell. Chosen which songs should we have chose? We want to get into arguments. I'm ready to get in the mud with y'all, okay? Thank you so

much for listening, and we will see y'all next one. Peace. All right, Cole, for y'all that stuck around for this nice stinger, I gave you some homework, all right? Mr. I don't like R&B told me he really didn't remember ever listening to Usher's monumental album Confession. So I told him, like, listen, give it a spin. Cole, I want you to tell people how you're feeling after you listen to confessions. All right, so I went in this with a totally closed mind. I assumed that I was going to like just I assumed that I wasn't going to like it frankly

What? Really? I mean I've heard Usher I've heard the big I mean yeah I just cannot fucking stand that song I've heard it way too many times It's I just don't like it But I will say Close Mind and all

There's some songs that got me on here Oh right There's no one who's impervious to confessions These are my confessions just when I thought I said all I can say When Jesus Jank on the Okay, what's One on the way

Calm down, calm down Okay, what really stuck out to me Was the production is like Pretty dope on this Germain Dupree, yeah, dude Yeah, and you've had a Swiss I think is it Swiss beats that did throwback With Jada Kiss, that song is like

Really dope. The third song on there Yeah, I was like the drums like Knock on this project I was really surprised But also, and then also like I listened to Burn which is what spurred this conversation because Kendrick references it on pure pressure.

That's a great, actually. So do you know, like, this album by heart? Dude, do you understand how, like, foundational this album is to me and most black people who grew up around this time? Like, Usher is one of my favorite artists of all time. Yes, dude. Like, the fact that, like, here's the thing,

I knew for a fact, you were going to be like, I don't know, all right, I'll listen. And I'm just like, there's not a human on earth who can listen to this album and then walk away, be like, those are bad songs. And like, no, you groove a little bit.

No, yeah. It's there, I mean, there's some, I mean, there are some hallmarks of R&B that I just personally don't resonate with me when it's like, hey, baby, I've a, I got something to tell you. And then like, there's like this soft piano intro, which I know is like a R&B staple,

but it's just like, every time I hear something like that, I'm just like, okay. By the end of this, here's the thing. By the end of this, I'm going to make you a fan of R&B, okay? I'm going to make you a fan. You know what we're going to do? We're going to trade.

We're going to do this every single episode. We're going to swap. Okay? We're going to swap albums that we need to listen to. All right. I'm going to give you a new album. You can give me anything in the world that you're like, Charles is going to hate this.

It could be anything. It could be a movie that you know that you're like, Charles is going to hate this. You're going to have to watch Bo Burnham's inside. No, no, no. We just did it on Dysect. No, man. You don't have to listen to Dysect.

I know that's a little, that's probably a little too much. No, no. I have nothing against Dysect. I love, dude, I love the work you do on there. This is, this is nothing against you. It's all about all the forms inside. More important, give it a chance, because I know he has a reputation. I don't know what you know about him, but inside is different from his past work.

I think it's one of the most important works in the past 20 years easily. You've got to watch it. Report back next week. All right, so I'm going to give you more R&B homework, okay? You know what I'm going to do? You didn't like, see, you didn't know Sierra. I didn't know Sierra, no. All right, you didn't know, Sierra.

So I'm going to give you two bees of homework. I'm going to give you one song. You need to go listen to one, two, step, okay? You need to listen to that song. And then an album, because I want you to get in the deep end. I want you to listen to 100% genuine by one of my favorite artists of all time, Genuine, okay? All right, 100%.

I'm writing it down. One, two, step. All right, you're going to do Bow Burnham. This is like, it's a good cultural exchange. I'm giving you the white comedian. I'm giving you R&B stars. It's going to be great. All right, guys,

thank you so much for listening. We're going to be back next week.