Dissect - MS1E4 - "Doo Wop (That Thing)" by Lauryn Hill

Episode Date: November 27, 2018

Ms. Lauryn Hill's "Doo Wop (That Thing)" synthesizes hip-hop with 1950s doo wop music. We trace the parallel histories of these two musical genres before our line-by-line analysis of the cautionary me...ssage Ms. Hill presents in her chart topping single. Follow @dissectpodcast on Twitter and Instagram. Join our newsletter at dissectpodcast.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:01 From Spotify Studios, this is Dissect, long-form musical analysis broken into short digestible episodes. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. Today we continue our serialized analysis of the Miseducation of Lauren Hill. On our last episode, we dissected To Zion, a resounding, triumphant expression of a mother's love. As miseducation progresses, we're met with the trio of songs that confront what Miss Hill views as inauthentic and contemporary society. She'll address the inauthentic, shallow motives of some hip-hop communities on its superstar and the consequences of a greed and ego-fueled desire to climb the cultural hierarchy on the song Final Hour. But first, Miss Hill will hold a mirror to the gender dynamics between some young men and women
Starting point is 00:00:58 on the album's next track, the subject of today's episode, Doop. Of all the songs on Miseducated, I never called you again, remember when he told you he was about to bench a man, so I thought you and him. Of all the songs on Miseducation, Duop is Miss Hill's most transparent homage to her love of music from the 1950s and early 60s. We begin with the song's title, Doop, a direct nod to a subgenre of rhythm and blues music that developed in the urban East Coast ghettos in the 1940s and was popularized in the 1950s through the early 60s. Though the term doop wasn't used until 1961, it has since come to describe a vocal dominant style of music that features prominent group harmony and simple instrumental accompaniment.
Starting point is 00:02:12 If she don't hurry and come back, I'm a sage to blow my top of power if I don't find her. I hope you'll remind that I'm staying where she left me. Just a sitting and rocking all day. This 1945 recording of the Delta Rhythm Boys performing just a sit-in'-a-rocken features the earliest recorded use of the phrase Duop, which is utilized by the backing vocalists. Like La La La or Na Na-N-Nah, do-op is what's known as a non-lexical vocable, which is essentially a fancy way to describe singing nonsensical words as mouth filler, something vocalists can use to provide notes and harmony without lyrics.
Starting point is 00:03:07 Throughout the 1950s, the phrase duop had been used by backing vocalists so much that this style of vocal harmonization became nickname Duop. Veda Nobles, who contributed drum programming on Lauren Hill's Duop, said of the song's title, quote, There's a box set that said Duop sitting on the floor. the title for her single came off that box, unquote. It's likely that this box set was the Rhino Records 4-disc 100-song compilation, entitled The Duot Box, which was released in 1994. But the song itself and its musical arrangement is actually taken from a 1971 track called
Starting point is 00:04:14 Together Let's Find Love by the fifth dimension. Together Let's Find Love features two chords that repeat in the song's opening few measures, G minor and F minor. On Miss Hill's Duop, these chords are played faster and transposed up to an A minor and G minor. When played this way, these chords nodding in to rhythm and blues music of the 50s, 60s, and early 70s. This technique of playing steady eighth-note chords high on the piano was common in those eras. Of course, Miss Hill and her team modernized their chords by adding hip-hop-style drums, provided by Sheikh Rivera. When producer Veda Nobles heard an early version of Duop, he, quote, thought the music
Starting point is 00:06:04 was cheesy. It wasn't hard enough, so I put a really heavy drum in there just to give it some edge, something hip-hop, unquote. Specifically, Nobles adds a driving kick drum, which was said to be inspired by Audio 2's 1988 hit, Top Billin. And now let's hear Nobel's kick drum he added to Duop. And now let's hear this together with the song's main drum loop. The last foundational elements of the song are a sophisticated funk-inspired bass line, which is accented by a second piano line played in the lower register. We also find a horn trio throughout Duop. The horn arrangement itself is taken from the original Fifth Dimension song, recreated by live players. Of course, another musical element essential to Duop, both the musical genre and Miss Hill's song, is the human voice. This is acknowledged
Starting point is 00:07:38 on the track's opening moments, as Miss Hill harkens back to the song's 50s doop inspiration. You remember back on the bully when cats used to harmonize like You know My men and my women Don't forget about the dean This is about a thing It's about a thing Yeah
Starting point is 00:08:00 I feel real good way Miss Hill begins saying Remember back on the bully when cats used to harmonize Bullie is slang for Boulevard And here Miss Hill is alluding to the origins of duop music which she describes using hip-hop street slang. Straightaway, Ms. Hill is acknowledging her coalescence of contemporary hip-hop with doo-op music of the 1940s and 50s.
Starting point is 00:08:22 These two musical styles, hip-hop and doo-op, aren't historically far removed in terms of their origin story. Duop began in the post-World War II era in the urban ghetto streets of cities like New York, Chicago, and Baltimore. African-American teenagers form their own vocal groups, as you didn't need access to musical instruments beyond your own voice. These groups would practice vocal harmonies in school gyms and street corners, blending rhythm and blues, barbershop and gospel harmonies with popular black vocal group music. It was common for these groups to take a pre-existing song and adapt it for
Starting point is 00:08:56 their a cappella performances. Soon, the Duop sound began to trickle into the mainstream music of the time, becoming a staple of 1950s rhythm and blues, continuing into Motown style of the 1960s and the Philly Sound of the 1970s. Many of the fundamental aspects of the origin story of Duop are mirrored in the creation of hip-hop. Like Duop, hip-hop was created in the impoverished urban streets of the East Coast, specifically South Bronx and New York City in the late 1970s. Like Duop, the black youth reinterpreted pre-existing songs, only now they were using turntables to combine multiple songs and looping breakbeats from funk records. Eventually, masters of of ceremonies, otherwise known as MC's, started rhyming over these instrumental beats.
Starting point is 00:10:16 Like Duop's early originators, an MC didn't need any instruments, they could write rhymes and practice anywhere, on street corners, subway tunnels, or at a table while tapping out drumbeats with their hands. Not unlike Duop, the term hip-hop originated from nonsensical words. As legend has it, Keith Cowboy Wiggins, a member of the pioneering rap group Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, was teasing a friend who was going into the army, mimicking the rhythm of marching soldiers by scatting, hip-hop, hip-hop. That phrase hip-hop ultimately got used in song, and the genre's title was born. Given the similarities in their grassroots origin story, Ms. Hill's literal harmonization of du-op and hip-hop is no insignificant footnote. It represents a deliberate bridge across generations,
Starting point is 00:11:09 of influential black music, whose expressions differ in sound, but whose origins are born out of the experience of the African American in the United States. Miss Hill's conscious unionization of these two closely related spirits are culturally significant, but also deeply personal. Both duop and hip-hop were instrumental influences in her upbringing. As you know from our first episode this season, Ms. Hill devours her parents' record collection as a child, a collection that consisted primarily of black soul and rhythm and blues. music of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. In fact, the first record Miss Hill discovered at age 5 was
Starting point is 00:11:46 if I should lose you by the duop group, The Dream Lever's. Express succinctly during her time with the Fugis, Miss Hill integrates her soul sound with her love of hip-hop. Specifically for miseducation, it was the Wu-Tang clan that Miss Hill told collaborators to use as the main hip-hop ingredient. We sat in a room when we started the record, and it was me, her, and James, and the first thing she said, she said, I like soul music, I like reggae music, and I like Wu-Tang. Let's go. And literally one of the first records we made was Du-W-W. I don't know how Du-Wap came out of that equation, but that was one of the first records we made was Du-Wap.
Starting point is 00:12:52 Because both soul and hip-hop are so structural to Miss Hill as a person, their coalescence here on Du-op and throughout Mis-Education for that matter, never sounds forced. Rather, it feels authentic, an accurate representation of who Ms. Hill is. And while she was the guiding principle in her team's creation of the song's instrumentals, Miss Hill's voice and a rare ability to both sing and rap at the highest level, is that magic, irreplaceable element that makes cohesive these otherwise contrasting musical aesthetics. Duop, that thing, is a master class in Miss Hill's dualistic talents, showcasing her effortless fluidity between MC and diva.
Starting point is 00:13:30 As you remember back on the bully when cats used to harmonize like As we discussed at length, Miss Hill begins by acknowledging the song's duop inspiration, effortlessly calling forth a trio of female backing vocalists. Ms. Hill then says, My men and my women, don't forget about the dean, Surah al-Mustakim. In Islam, Dean translates to religion or creed, and refers to the way of life Muslims are required to adopt and compliance with divine law
Starting point is 00:14:20 and to the divine judgment individuals will receive before Allah. Surah al-Mustakim is a phrase from the Quran, translating to the straight path or way that pleases God. As we've already heard in its opening three tracks, Miseducation makes numerous references to scripture and spirituality, a reflection of Miss Hill's interest and studies in the Bible, the Quran, and other religious texts. Here on Duop, it frames the song within religious or spiritual structures, implying that the subject she's about to elaborate on, sexualization and materialism, specifically in urban culture, are divergences from the quote-unquote
Starting point is 00:14:56 straight path. We'll keep this pious framework in mind as we explore Duop's lyrics, lyrics that will dive into right after the break. Welcome back to dissect. Before the break, we discussed Miss Hill's harmonization of doo-op and hip-hop on Miss Education's fifth track, Do-Op, That Thing. We also heard the song's introduction, which features Miss Hill's speaking voice. This introduction is found on the album version of the song. On Duop's single version, the one that dominated radio in the late 90s, the introduction features the performance of the song's hook, which will go ahead and hear now. Duop's hook is likely one you know very well. Ms. Hill warns women to watch out for guys only concerned with that thing,
Starting point is 00:15:57 which is a euphemism for sex. This introduces the cautionary tone of the song's message and the dynamics between one-track-minded men and the women that they court. As we'll see in both of the song's verses, Ms. Hill places blame on both the men and the women for the creation of these dynamics, specifically within the young black urban community. In verse one, she speaks to the women directly. It's been three weeks since you were looking for your friend
Starting point is 00:16:23 The one you left hit it and never called you again Remember when he told you he was about to bench you had like you ain't him They give him a little trim to begin Now you think you really gonna pretend Like you wasn't down and you called him again plus when You give it up so easy you ain't even fooling him If you did it then and you probably fucking again Talking out your next and you're a Christian
Starting point is 00:16:42 I must slam sleeping with the gin Now that was the sin that did Jezebel in Who you're going to tell when the repercussion is spent Miss Hill begins by presenting a micro-narrative about a one-night stand, addressing directly the woman in this scenario. She says, It's been three weeks since you were looking for your friend, the one you let hit it, and never called you again.
Starting point is 00:17:03 The implication here is that the woman was hoping for something more to come from this romantic relationship, but instead she was ghosted, never hearing from the man again. She continues, Remember when he told you he was about the Benjamin's? This line calls out the 1997 hit It's All About the Benjamin. by Puff Daddy, a song that was dominating the radio during the creation of Miseducation. Benjamins is, of course, a reference to Benjamin Franklin's portrait on the $100 bill,
Starting point is 00:17:51 and Miss Hill's reference to this track works to personify the male character in Duop. She's drawing on and calling out a prevalent theme in male mindset and hip-hop, which is the acquisition and flaunting of money to attract women. This mindset was also propagated by the female perspective and other popular songs of this era, perhaps most famously in the number one hit, No Scrubs by TLC. And so we have a dynamic of both men and women
Starting point is 00:18:38 glorifying materialism and sexuality as a means to attract the opposite sex. And it's this dynamic that Miss Hill is calling out as flawed, superficial, and inauthentic on do-op. Ms. Hill elaborates on her narrative, confronting the woman for giving it up so easily, and then feeling bad when the man only wants to see her for sex. She says, Remember when you told you who is about the Benjamin's, you act like you ain't here him and then give him a little trim. Trim here is slang for sex, specifically a woman's vagina. She continues,
Starting point is 00:19:08 plus when you give it up so easy, you ain't even fooling him. If you did it then, then you'd probably fuck again. Miss Hill sees the woman as having set up an expectation of sexual transaction, implying that she's just as responsible as the man is for this relationship based only on sex. Midway through the verse, Ms. Hill returns to her religious framework, quote, Talking out your neck saying you're a Christian. Talking at your neck is a phrase that means to speak recklessly or lie. Miss Hill calls this woman out for claiming to be a moral Christian, while her behavior says otherwise. Miss Hill continues, a Muslim sleeping with the gin. Jin here has two meanings, similar to the previous line,
Starting point is 00:19:47 she equates this woman to someone who claims to be Muslim, but also drinks gin or alcohol, which is not halal and is forbidden. But gin, spelled J-I-N-N, is Arabic, and in Islam refers to an object that cannot be detected by human senses, most commonly spirits like angels and demons. It seems clear that Ms. Hill's intention saying, sleeping with the gin, is akin to the phrase sleeping with the devil. But we recognize the clever double meaning of two types of spirits. the alcoholic spirit gin and the evil Islamic spirit gin. Ms. Hill then says, Now that was the sin that did Jezebel in.
Starting point is 00:20:24 Who are you going to tell when the repercussions spin? Recounted in the Bible, Jezebel was the 9th century queen of Israel. She's infamous for her disloyalty as she worshipped another god other than Yahweh. The people turned on her, and as she prepared to be murdered by General Jehu, Jezebel applied makeup and dressed in finery
Starting point is 00:20:42 before she was thrown over her balcony and eaten by dogs. Some have viewed her putting on makeup and dressing extravagantly as a failed plan to seduce Jehu and avoid her fate. Since her death, the name Jezebel has become an archetype for impudent or morally unrestrained women. It would seem that Miss Hill is drawing on both Jezebel specifically from the Bible and her legacy as archetype, a kind of warning to women of this character that their current path will not end well unless some correction to their behavior and character is made. As verse 1 continues, Miss Hill turns inward. Missing where you're in here
Starting point is 00:21:19 Miss Hill begins the second half of verse one saying, Showing off your ass because you think it's a trend. The type of woman Miss Hill speaks about here plays into the cultural sexualized expectations of women. Men are created from observation followed by imitation, and so it becomes a kind of self-feeding cycle. In this scenario, a woman shows skin because she sees others doing it and getting attention from men. Another woman sees that woman showing skin and begins doing it herself. Another woman sees that woman, and so on and so forth. As the verse continues, Ms. Hill begins to reveal
Starting point is 00:22:23 the intentions behind her tough love. Quote, You know I only say it because I'm truly genuine. Don't be a hard rock when you really are a gem. Baby girl, respect. is just a minimum, Edwards fucked up and you're still defending them. Ms. Hill is implying that these women are selling themselves short, that their self-perception is falsely influenced by the stereotypes of hip-hop culture, and more broadly, the historical sexualization of women in American society. She argues that they have more to offer than their bodies, that they should demand respect from the opposite sex by first respecting themselves. This is potently expressed in the line, don't be a hard rock when you really are a gem. Miss Hill plays out the fact that some
Starting point is 00:23:01 gems are rocks, laying out a philosophy of maximizing oneself worth through self-perception. That is, with perception alone, you can value yourself as a hard rock, which is common and easy to obtain, or as a gem, rare, valuable, and harder to obtain. Also ingrained here is this idea that one attracts what one projects. That is, specifically as it relates to the narrative on Duop, if one relies on sexualization for attention, they run the risk of attracting only those interested in their bodies. The verse continues, now Lauren is only human, don't think I haven't been through the same predicament. This to me is a very pivotal line, revealing that Ms. Hill is not, or at least doesn't intend to speak from a place of judgment. Rather, because she once had a mindset
Starting point is 00:23:45 similar to the women she's speaking to, her intention seemed pure as she attempts to expedite a process of personal growth in others, a process that she went through herself. Indeed, regarding Duop's message, Ms. Hill told Details Magazine, quote, I'm not dissing them, I'm dissing their mindset. My music talks about a certain way of thinking, and if the cap fits, you know. I knew girls like Little Kim growing up. I might have been one at a certain age, and there's this huge lack of self-esteem behind that thinking. I mean, when I was 14, I thought if a guy didn't whistle at me, that meant I wasn't pretty. But either you mature past that, or you get caught up in the concept of, oh, I have to show some ass because it's the only way I can feel beautiful.
Starting point is 00:24:25 Sex is cool, but it's only part of the story." It seems to me that Ms. Hill's intention isn't necessarily to place all the blame on women for these mindsets. Rather, she's pointing out the invisible social and historical constructs that influence these women's perceptions of themselves and the invisible pressures these constructs put on them to conform. Ms. Hill's words are cautionary based on her own experience, and it would seem she's attempting to save others from the experiences she went through herself. This point is implied in the following line. Let it sit inside your head like a million women in Phillypin. By saying let it sit inside your mind, it's clear that Ms. Hill's words here are simply food for thought, something to consider.
Starting point is 00:25:05 A million women in Philippine refers to the Million Women March that took place in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in October of 1997. Attended by over 500,000 people, mostly women, the march was intended to promote positive change and, quote, help bring social, political, and economic development and power throughout the black communities in the United States, as well as bring hope, empowerment, unity, and sisterhood to women, men, and children of African descent globally, regardless of nationality, religion, or economic status, unquote. It would seem Ms. Hill is implying that some of the women at this march had a similar revelation as she did and work to promote change, union, and respect within their African-American communities. Miss Hill continues with the line, it's silly when girls sell
Starting point is 00:25:50 their souls because it's in. This again carries with it religious undertones, as in selling one's soul to the devil. But here Ms. Hill plays off sell and the trend of attracting a wealthy man with their sexuality. Finally, the verse ends, look at where you be in, hairweaves like Europeans, fake nails done by Koreans. This seems to tie back into the mission of the million women march, one that works towards uniting the African American women community. Ms. Hill is pointing out the irony of African American women chasing traditional standards of the million. American beauty that's based on centuries of pushing whiteness as the ideal form of beauty. She asks these women to literally look at how chasing these superficial beauty standards
Starting point is 00:26:30 separates them from their community. They visit Korean nail salons and reject their natural hair in favor of straightened European hair styles or wigs. As Duop continues, Ms. Hill performs the song's hook, only this time she cautions men about certain types of women. That thing here on the second iteration of the song's hook is no longer a euphemism for sex. Rather, that thing is now money and materialism. This helps us set up verse two, which addresses the men directly.
Starting point is 00:27:38 women hate men and the sneaky solid men the punk men's very clear who's is dedicated to the men, more concerned with his rims and his tims than his women. She draws attention to these men prioritizing materialism while neglecting the women that they're with. And just like certain women prioritizing their bodies to meet expectations culture is set for them, men flunting wealth is also an attempt to fulfill some invisible expectations society is pressed upon them. Miss Hill continues with one of the more clever lines of the entire song, saying, him and his men come in the club like hooligans, don't care who
Starting point is 00:28:25 they offend, poppin yang like you've got yen. Popping yang is slang for talking trash, while yen refers to Japanese currency. So the phrase pop and yang like you got. Yen translates to talking shit like you got money. But of course, Miss Hill is playing off Yin Yang, the Chinese symbol for the balance of opposing forces. When heard this way, Miss Hill is calling out these men for pretending that they're balanced, that they have their shit together, when it's really all for show. This is elaborated on as the verse continues. Let's stop pretend, the ones that pack pistols by the waistmen, crystal by the casemen, still in their mother's basement. Again, while these men play into the stereotypical image of a black male,
Starting point is 00:29:08 it's an elaborate front, as they still live with their mother and are in some sense still children. Ms. Hill continues to go in on these men, saying, need to take care of their three or four kids, and they face a court case when the child support late, money-taking and heartbreaking, now you wonder why women hate men. And so while verse one pointed out the women's role in the failed dynamics between men and women, here on verse two, Miss Hill is going just as at the men and their contribution to these failed relationships. In both cases, these types of men and women are writing checks they ultimately can't cash. They're presenting a fabricated version of themselves to attract the opposite sex, which works in the short term, but in Ms. Hill's view, has long-term
Starting point is 00:29:48 consequences like broken homes, failed child support, and as we'll hear about in the subsequent lines, physical abuse, quote, the punk domestic violence men, quick to shoot the semen, stop acting like boys and be men. Ultimately, Ms. Hill finds her behavior childish and absent of grown man responsibility. Her point of view throughout the entire track is punctuated with the second versus closing lines, how are you going to win when you ain't right within? Like the elaborate flashy feathers of a peacock, materialism and overt sexuality are external superficial projections to attract the opposite sex.
Starting point is 00:30:24 But if you're not right within, if your character isn't noble, if your word is without merit, if your spirit's depleted, these external projections will only get you so far. It's my understanding that Miss Hill doesn't mean to say having wealth or being sexual are inherently bad, but they have to have a solid foundation on which to stand. They should not take priority over or cause detriment to things like moral character, true self-respect, and personal virtue. It calls to mind a quote from Tupac Shakur, a man who battled his instincts for both inner peace and street bravado.
Starting point is 00:30:56 Quote, If there was no money and everything to pay. on your moral standards, the way that you behaved, and the way that you treated people, how would you be doing in life? Unquote. Throughout Duop and punctuated at the end of its second verse, Ms. Hill seems to be asking a similar question. How are you going to win if you ain't right within? As Duop continues, the song explicitly reveals its influences as it breaks down into an a cappella arrangement that acts as the song's bridge. One of Duop's backing vocalist, Lanisha Randolph, recounted her experience contributing to the track.
Starting point is 00:31:44 Quote, in November 1997, I get a phone call asking if I'm available to come to Chung King's studios in New York. Lauren came in eating spaghetti pome d'Oro and garlic bread and explained where she's trying to go with this album and now she wants it to be a reflection of all of us. I was an 18-year-old girl that just wanted to sing. For du-op, she said, I want to play with 50s and 60s harmonies like barbershop guys on the corner. Then we all just jumped in harmonizing acapella. directed us and from there history was made."
Starting point is 00:32:17 Indeed, history was made. Upon its release in July of 1998 as Miss Education's lead single, Duop, That Thing, was an instant commercial and cultural sensation. It became the 10th single in history to debut at number one on the Billboard Hot 100, and the first by a rap artist, male or female. The iconic music video, which features a split screen of Miss Hill both contrasting and unifying the styles of the 1950s, with the first by the the late 1990s swept the MTV Video Music Awards, including video of the year.
Starting point is 00:32:49 Duop, that thing, is that rare mainstream cultural specimen that carries with it a resounding conscious message packaged in a commercially viable product. It's a delicate balancing act very few have pulled off historically. And while some have criticized Duop for having a matronly or lecturing tone, its criticism Ms. Hill is aware of and seems to be okay with. You know, yes, there's a little anger, there's a little resentment because you raise a standard, you know, you, especially when you do it and you make some noise, you know, and you do it and people actually listen to what you have to say and like your record is bumping on the radio and you're saying something that holds a mirror up to a lot of the negativity and self-indulgent things and messages that a lot of other people, you know, but we're all young. I mean, I have a hard time being so hard on the music world, especially hip-hop, because most of them come out of it. The hood's 17 years old, having no clue or concept, having no concept of what life really is. And because hip hop is so fast and what we like changes so quickly, by the time they do get a concept,
Starting point is 00:33:56 they're no longer making records. You know, so I was, I've been putting this unique position. I have this very unique responsibility that God has made me aware while I still have the mic. And her piece, respect is just a minimum. scholar Maisie Holbert says of Duop, quote, The lyrics of Duop describe a variety of issues faced by women in hip-hop communities, placing accountability with both men and women. The first verse condemns the sexual promiscuity of young women who are left destitute when men do not support them,
Starting point is 00:34:28 whilst the second verse holds the unrelenting dominance of hip-hop masculinity accountable for the struggles women face. Here, Hill exhibits dual oppositionality, a term to articulate how hip-hop discourse is both liberating and oppressive for black women. By encouraging a dialogue between genders concerning their accountability for their challenges, Hill is at once able to critique the sexist infrastructures of hip-hop and express group solidarity with the wider oppression of black hip-hop communities. The song Duop thus forms a community, where collective responsibility for the hypersexualization and commodification of women
Starting point is 00:35:05 would incite a change in action and consciousness, unquote. In terms of the miseducation of Lauren Hill's narrative, Duop is the first of a trio of songs in which Miss Hill calls out what she views as inauthentic, specifically within her immediate black hip-hop-centric community. On the album's next track, she takes aim not at the consumers of hip-hop, but the creators of it. Come on, baby, lie, my fire. Everything you drop is so tired. Music is supposed to inspire
Starting point is 00:35:42 How come we ain't getting no higher This door is inspired a salt on fame And the music industry at large Is called Superstar A song will thoroughly discuss Next time on Dissect Dysect is written and produced by me Project support by Spotify's Michelle Santucci
Starting point is 00:36:15 Original theme music by Beirocratic Song Recreations by Andrew Atwood Additional Research by Akash Pandy Remember, when you listen to Dissect on Spotify, you'll get episodes a week early plus access to exclusive bonus episodes. Follow at Dissect Podcast on Twitter and Instagram and join our newsletter at dissectpodcast.com.
Starting point is 00:36:38 Okay, thanks everyone. Talk to you next week.

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