Dissect - Stankonia by OutKast | LAST SONG STANDING (E1)

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Our journey to crown OutKast's greatest song ever begins with Stankonia - the album that transformed the duo into global superstars. Join Dissect host Cole Cuchna and The Ringer's Charles Holmes as they revisit the album's history and themes, stump each other with album trivia, and debate the songs that should be in contention for OutKast's greatest ever. Let us know your picks off the album by tagging @dissectpodcast and @charlesxholmes. Producer, Special Guest: Justin Sayles Audio Editor: Kevin Pooler Theme Music: Birocratic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing. I'm Cole Kushna. And I'm Charles Holmes. And today we are back with our third season. The artists may change, but our task stays the same. On this show, Cole and I argue our way through an artist's entire catalog in order to crown their single greatest song of all time, aka the Last Song Standing.

In season one, we crowned as Kendrick-O-Marr's greatest song of all time. And in season two, we crowned as Frank Ocean's Last Song Standing. But today, the L-D-S boys begin a new journey, a journey back in time, to revisit the discography of the greatest duo in hip-hop history. Outcast. Me and your doubter. Got a special thing going on with it. Everybody say,

I know your hands in the air and wave them like the distal care. And come in the ghetto, so I want me hanging my socks on no tip. A plus as a tick, fix me a plate. I got true, I got more fans than the average man, but not enough loot to last me. To the end of the week, I live by the beat like you left to check till then. All right, yo, Cole, it's been so long. We do this once a year, but it always feels like it's like five years in between. How are you doing, Cole?

Oh, I'm doing great. I'm here in L.A., your new hometown. I've gotten caught up on your new lifestyle. My hotels? Your hotels. About an hour conversation about your hinge and your hinge journey. Yeah, man. The shoddies, it's going up, bro.

Justin, honestly, he's been my partner in. crime out here, the Batman to my dating or dating streets Robin. How you doing, Justin? You know, I, as your manager and your editor and all these things, I don't know if we need to be saying on a microphone that I'm out here, like,

trying to help you through these hinge waist lengths. Like, I'm not trying to be the Praetorian Jack to your Furiosa. Hey, but guys, guess what? This isn't called Last Date Standing. It's called Last Song Standing. And I think the most important question that we have to ask for our audience is

first season Kendrick, second season, Frank Ocean, very modern artists. I think those are artists that both of us came of age. I was probably in my late teens, early 20s. You were in your probably mid to late 20s. So we kind of grew up with these people. But Outcast, I really kind of, I was a kid when their most seminal work came out. So like, why Outcast for you? Well, it was requested a lot. So shout out to El Douglas. Shout out to everybody who voted. But I mean, I like, I like. Well, obviously they're just undeniable presence in hip-hop and history. I think it'll be interesting for us to study someone that their discography is complete, which we haven't really, we've been doing Frank Kendrick, these recent artists that are still working. Hopefully Frank's still working. So that's interesting to me where we can actually look at a complete catalog and really dive in, create some hierarchies, knowing that this is the final product. And it's just fucking great.

I've been having a blast diving back into the catalog. It's just fucking really, really, really good music that we're going to talk, transcends boundaries and push the limits of genre. So I'm really excited this season. What about you? So I think when we search for who to do a season on, I think what we run into a lot of times is that

when you get to artists, and this isn't saying we're never going to do seasons on any of these artists, but when you get to like a J or an M&M or any of these kind of artists, even honestly a Poc, where their discography gets so unwieldy after a point. Like, Lil Wayne is in that where it's like, we'd be doing a J season forever. There's just so many albums. And I think after a certain point, honestly,

there's just a fall off in quality. And without Cassidyar point, I think there's only really one clunker, and we'll talk about it later, which is Idlewild. Everything else, whether these albums, are your favorite or the best or are in the canon or not, to your point, Outcast almost just has a perfect package of a discography. And I think there are songs, this is probably going to be the first season where the songs not only loom so large over genres like hip-hop and R&B, there are certain

outcast songs that loom large over just the pop music canon in general. So we are going to have to figure out not only what makes a perfect outcast song, but does a perfect outcast song also need to be a perfect pop song? Can we choose something that's more of a deep cut, more of something that rap, like deep rap nerds like, or are we going to try to pick something that this is just, it was on the hot 100, you heard it everywhere. So that's why I'm very excited for the season. Yeah, I got a question for you. Are you team Andre or team big boy? So I felt this way my entire life. If you have a side, you're fucking coward, okay? Because everybody's just going to say Andre 3000 because he's just, he's Andre. I just think it's the, it's the sexier,

weirder, alien package, but not big boys that motherfucker. Like I was, what, what is the solo? there was, it was his first solo album after Outcast. Sir Lucius Leftfoot. Sir Lucius Leftfoot is one of my like favorite albums. Like that solo album, big boy is so good. And as a kid, it just put into my Monos, like, anybody who just thinks like big boy is just the lesser artist, I don't trust them. So with that take, which side are you on, call? I mean, that's actually the best answer. Because, yeah, you don't want to cop out, but at the same time, it's like, we'll talk about this a lot this season. Like, the complementary aspect of these two characters together is what makes them so beautiful

and great and different. The fact that they allowed each other to be themselves throughout the entire thing and let let each other evolve in the way that they wanted to is what makes them so special. Obviously, someone like me is going to lean more towards the Andre's side just because I do like that more artistic, creative aspect. But to cop out, I think I'm with you and that you can't really pick a side because you're just picking outcast at the end of the day. So we brought in someone special who will be popping in and out this season, all right? You might have heard his voice before. Justin Sayles' music lead, he is the

behind the scenes man for some of the best music pods in the world. He helps you out with dissect. He's been working with you on the Doom season. Bandsplane 60 song that explains the 90s. He's my editor. I'm annoying him always. Justin, how are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm just, I'm happy to be here and discussing Outcast with my own personal big boy and Andre. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, who's the big boy? Don't answer that. Don't answer it. I'll answer it at the end of the season. So we brought Justin in for a very important reason. And I think that, reason will become a parent right now. So we are all going to go tell everybody our age, starting with the youngest. I'm 31. Cole, you are. Just turn 40. Justin? I'm 41. So as the oldest,

two young guys here and here's the thing, this is a pod. You cannot see this video. Cole still has a luscious full locks, salt and pepper. Justin, when's the way, the last time you had a full head of hair? I got ahead of this when I was young and I started shaving the head early. What age? That's the best move by the way. Yeah, what age? Like, I don't know,

like, 23. Oh, damn. Yeah. It was a rap for you, real. I was just like, I'm just not going to do this. I'm looking at my grandfather. I'm looking at my uncle. I'm looking at my dad. I'm like, I'm just not going to do this. But you were the OG backpacker. So we'll be thrown to you. I was the first one. So we will be throwing to you a lot this season.

And before we kind of get into the show premise, the rules, the structure of the season, guys, I want to do a little thing. What is our pre-season outcast album ranking? Because I think it will change the farther we get into it. I'll start first. So I've been listening to these albums for months in preparation for this. Right now where it stands,

wait, should I go number one or start from the bottom? bottom. Start for the bottom. Idlewild, obviously, should not even honestly make the list. I like Mario a lot, though. So it'll be idle wild speaker box love below, Southern Playalistic, stanchonia, equeminine, AT aliens. That is my list, exactly. Hell, fucking, let's go. Yeah, because here's the thing. I've been arguing with Justin where it's like, I always thought it was going to be Aquamini. I always like, Aquamanize number one. And through listening, I'm like, I think Aetelians is the better. I'll...

Okay. No, no, no, no. Let me just caveat mine with AT aliens is at the top of my list, but I've been listening to it a lot because we're doing on the next episode where I haven't really... I haven't been listening to Equip...

So I don't know if it's recency biased. It might be recent-byist. It's like... One and two, to me, the one and two is like... It's so close that it could change at any moment. It changes during the day.

Like, when I listen to it, if I'm in an Equimini-N-I mood, I'm just like, well, it's obviously a quemini. But, and we'll talk about this during the A.T. Aliens episode, I would say the first half of ATLians is flawless and then it kind of falls off a cliff

where Equamini is good mostly throughout. My ranking is the same as both of yours with one exception and it's not one and two because I think either A.T.L.E.L. Or Equamini is an acceptable answer and it kind of depends on the day. I think Southern Playlists is better than Stankonia. I think that's clear number three.

I think I agree with you as an album Yeah. But I'm thinking we're going to talk a lot about this with Stankonia as we kind of get into some of our picks. The songs on Staconia looms so large over pop culture in a way that like Southern Playlistsic has jams and it has classic records. But there's not. Sure. There are not those records where I'm like, I was watching the, the Bombs over Baghdad video and I almost started tearing up. Not because it made me sad, but I was just like, I remember watching this as a kid.

so much and it instantly transported me back to a time of loving music where I'm like oh I'm never getting this story again. I think there's also a chance that somebody's listening to this and being like Justin's out of his fucking mind. Stankone is better than Southern Playlistic. I want to be clear. We're talking about four of the best albums ever made.

Not just the greatest, like we're not talking about the greatest rap albums ever made. I think you could make a case for like if you were doing a 500 albums. You could put four of the Outcast albums there in pretty much. any order and I'm like, some of them will be like, uh, but they're all perfect out. Now,

if people are saying that, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, speaker box love low should be higher. Get the fuck out of. Yeah, that's... Oh, we'll get there. All right, so, the last thing I wanted to do, and I think this is really, really important, is I want to say a quick rest in peace to Rico Wade. If people don't know who Rico Wade is,

he is honestly one of the most important producers, just in popular music. He was one of the founding members in of organized noise. One of the, I mean, the reason that we got Outcast, the story is like a young Andre and big boy visited Rico when he was working at a hair care store and wrapped over, it was a Tribe Call Quest scenario, right?

And they wrapped, I think it was something like eight minutes just freestyling, and that's how this whole thing started. Rico Wade, Justin, name me some of the best Rico Wade organized noise productions. So you listen to those first couple of Outcast records and Southern Playalistic and A.T. Elians. And that was mostly organized noise. It was Ray Murray, Sleepy Brown, and Rico Wade.

And Rico Wade kind of felt like, you know, I don't want to say like one person was more important than the other, but Rico Wade kind of felt like he was, despite Sleepy Brown singing on all the records and everything, Rico Wade really felt like the heart of that. And like, what I'll say is those records, those first two records, used a lot of live instrumentation.

Yeah. And it felt so, different than the way a group like the roots were doing it. The roots were functionally like a jazz band that was kind of retrofitting their music to hip-hop and they were just, they were trying to show you the musicianship. Dr. Dre was trying to get around some sample clearance things and just use the interpolation and he would bring in a lot of musicians to replay elements of the songs. Those Dr. Dre chronic songs really, they just felt enormous the way that they were replayed, but they felt very clean. What they were doing in the dungeon family, organized noise,

is they were taking this live instrumentation, and they were really making a sound like gritty hip hop records on those first couple of records. And I think on, you hear samples here and there on those records, especially on AT aliens. But the way that they were using live instrumentation was really a way that no other group was doing it, and they were doing it in a way.

Because here's the thing you've got to understand for context. Live instruments were considered fucking whack in hip-hop at the time. It was all about sampling at the time. It was all about, like, having, I mean, Dr. Dre had a pass at having people replay this stuff, but, like, most people thought that was samples. Like, the roots had this big barrier to overcome. No one even questioned this with organized noise because that shit just sounded so good, and they were able to make it sound like just, they were able to take live instrumentation and make it sound like it might have been produced by Pete Rock or Diamond D or a large professor.

Yeah, so we honestly, I just think we would be remiss if we didn't say one last time, like, rest in peace, RICO, Wade, legend out there. But without further ado, Cole, can you please explain to our new listeners or our returning listeners the rules of this very, very twisty game we play? Yeah, so every episode of the season is going to cover one Outcast album, and we're going to discuss the history, the themes of the album, and then we each nominate and debate our choices for the best song off of the project. At the end of the episode, we're going to each be forced to crown a last song standing, the one song that we think is better than the rest on the album. And then at the end of the season, we have our Royal Rumble finale, which is where our picks from each episode of the season duke it out until Charles and I are forced to agree on the single song that is the greatest outcast song of all time.

And we'll be covering every outcast album from Southern Playalistic to Speakerbox level below, plus Big Boy and Andre features. And yes, we're even going to give Idaho some very, very minimal shot. But on today's episode, we're starting with the album that turned outcast from a beloved and critically acclaimed hip-hop act to international superstars. 2000s Stankonia. I'm drinking on yak while I'm nipping up in that lack.

The junkies around my way, you're always talking up on that crap. Those traces. I'm going to do to everything. I'll rock a microphone like that there, boy. It would still say street. Big things happen every time we mean like a... All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right. All right.

All right. I got to give you a little bit of background info. Stankonia. four studio album was released on October 31st, 2000. The 24-song behemus spawned three singles, B.LB Bombs Over Baghdad, Miss Jackson, and So Fresh So Clean. The album debuted at number two on the Billboard 200, selling 525,844 copies in its first week. Jay-Z's The Dynasty Rock La Familia took the number one spot, while U-2's All That You Can Leave Behind, came in at number three.

The album was nominated for five Grammys and took two home for Best Rap Performance for Miss Jackson, best rap album, and currently, stankonia is five times platinum. Now, Cole, what themes are we cooking up with with stankonia, all right? Well, we got to start with the title, of course. It's their classic combining two words thing, portmanteau, if you want to get technical, but obviously they're combining the word stank, slang for funky, with plutonia, which is a fictional futuristic city that Andre had a poster of when he was a kid. And so together they form stankonia, which Andre's,

said this about quote stankonia is this place where i imagine you can open yourself up be free to express anything and so i think musically this kind of gets represented in alicast's very specific mission to ascend beyond the boundaries of hip-hop both andre and big boy felt at this time that hip-hop was completely stagnant and they were wanting to revitalize it with something fresh uh big boy said quote hip-hop was starting to sound real comfortable there wasn't any adventure to it. Andre said, quote, hip hop was at a point where everything was kind of laid back and smooth. I wanted something that sounded a little more urgent and fierce. And like we mentioned earlier, at this point Outcast was producing the majority of their records. They have kind of organized noise

gets three production credits here, but for the most part, it's self-produced album. They made it a point not to listen to hip-hop while making this album. Instead, listening to Jimmy Hendricks, Little Richard, Prince, Rage Against the Machine, George Clinton. And they were able to infuse all these new influences into the music. A large reason why is that they purchased a studio that they named Stangonia. And now they had all the time in the world to kind of experiment with these new sounds. Andre has a really great quote about this. He said,

You can sit there and fuck with a kick and a snare all day long if you want to. You're not on the clock. You're really just working on your mind. So what comes out of this experimentation and this this this kind of feeling to shake up hip hop is I feel like a very relentless energetic album Like has this just very unique energy to it which again was a reaction to not only what was going on in hip hop But also like their past two albums at Kuominae and AT aliens has a very laid back kind of smooth feeling to it And so they also felt that this frenetic energy was a reflection of what was happening at the world, in the world at the turn of the century.

So this is year 2000, the writing through 99 to 2000. This is the year of Y2K computer glitch scare, where some people were saying it's going to be the apocalypse. There's the Columbine mass shooting, rising tensions in the Middle East. So this chaos, this energy of the album was reflecting the chaos of the times. And it's, you know, there's a,

for Outkast, they said that this unification of different sounds symbolized to them, the unification of people as an antidote to the chaos of the modern world, people coming together and trying to elevate and overcome. I'll leave you with this one last Andre quote where he said,

I remember reading about human beings and how if everybody is in the same place, humanity can go to another dimension. I was just trying to make the impossible out of music, make people rise in some kind of way. And so I think stankonia, thematically, symbolically, symbolically

represents this higher place. They were trying to ascend to. beyond the kind of chaos of the modern world. How is that sounding? Cole, not only does that sound beautiful, if I may, that higher place, that higher plateau, that Andre was dreaming about, I honestly think it was last longstanding.

We have made a podcast of Andre 3000 students. I have him on speed dial. He told me that off there. All right. So, guys, this is Justin's moment to shine. All right. we invited him because we like we need someone with a little salt in his beard you know a lot of time in the game for people don't know Justin is a recovering DJ and rapper so well we don't talk about the second part all right

recovering DJ and you can just redact the other part but so we did not have any names for this segment until I came up with something well what is what's the segment what is the segment so the segment is a time machine. We want Justin to take us back to 2000. Tell us what was popping. What were the streets talking about, all right? This is just your time to really for listeners who how, what would you say the average age of a dissect listener is? It's like 18 to 26. Yeah, so these motherfuckers just don't. They, they don't even fucking know. Yeah. So this is basically your little washed island where you can tell them. Everything that was popping in 2000s where Alcast sat and I have three potential names for this segment.

Can I test them out on you? All right. All right. This one is taken from one of my favorite songs off Stankonia, and it's called, We Love These Olds. You like that? I like that. The second one, teacher box and the old below. Not as catchy.

The third one is specifically because I know way too much about Justin. We live like five minutes away from each other. I will explain why this is probably the greatest one. South Massachusetts playlists to Dodge Challenger music. I'm not from Massachusetts. I am not from Massachusetts. Yes, you are. I'm from Rhode Island.

Are you positive? This one doesn't work. For people who don't know, I don't want to call it a midlife crisis, but you definitely got a Dodge Challenger at a point in your life where I'm just like, you deserve it, old man. Wait, is that the Kendrick van? The Kendrick van? Yeah.

What is the Dodge Challenger? See, I literally had to ask him this question this morning. What was like, what car do you do? How are you guys doing a show on rap music and don't know what a Dodge Challenger is? This is crazy. This is crazy. I'm not a car guy.

I'm sorry. Young Dolph is looking down on you guys right now. Oh, I can imagine in my head now. What am I getting a... What was the... I thought he drove a Mustang, to be honest. You see, no, you're thinking I drive a pony car. I drive a muscle car.

That's the difference. Oh, excuse me. All right, so, of all these names, I honestly, I think it's we love these olds. Yeah, yeah, that's perfect. So take us away, Justin. What was it like to be a young whippersnapper in the year 2000? Well, Cole already brought up that it was Y2K, and we were getting over that anxiety.

and me, myself personally, I was getting ready to start college. I was starting college right now. Cole, I do want to say that you're getting off really easy. I know, like, 14 months younger than me. I try to jump in, like, we're acting like Justin's way older than me. I don't know why I assume that, like, Cole is my age, and every single time I talk to Justin, he gets 10 years older. This was really, to me, the era of aftermath, because the previous year you had Dr. Drey's 2001 come out.

And those singles were still, like, riding throughout that year. That was just such a massive album. And then that spring, you had a little bleached blonde white boy who, whatever happened to this guy, Eminem? Oh, he's in a one-sided beef with making this siren right now. That album shot him into the fucking stratosphere. You also have Jay really solidifying his power as King of New York, which would in 2001 very much become a thing when his beef with Nonspop. off. But the Neptunes, who were the producers behind that song, Just Want to Love You,

they were kind of taken over the radio waves. They had, like, fully taken the mantle from Timberlin at that point. And they had, like, songs were mystical, and they had, like, Beanie Man, and they had Ludacris's Southern hospitality, which Ludacris being the second major artist from Atlanta to really pop off. So you can really look at 2000 as the Big Bang for Atlanta rap in the mainstream. Because within a few years, you have Ti, you have G.I. You have Gizi, you have Gucci Main. There wasn't anything really like. It was kind of outcast and that was it.

But it was kind of this time when rap was becoming a little less, you know, the two mechas being New York and, I mean, New York being the mecca and then L.A. on the other side. It was the year where between Eminem, Common, all these different artists in the Midwest, ludicrous popping off, rap really became less of a, coastal thing and it became more of a just, you know, more of a national, regional thing in the mainstream. As part of this segment, I do want to try one thing, though. Do you guys remember what six CD changers were, like in the car? I do. I never had one. I was always so jealous. Yeah, I don't think I was, my parents were like popping enough at that point to have one, but I do, I do remember the, the CD booklets, like the binders where you like, organized, I was always, like, jealous. I'm like, dog, when I get popping,

I'll have the best CD-Biter, and by that time, MP3s happen, I'm like, fuck. I want to talk about what would have been in my theoretical six CD changers. Some cannabis? No, no, we were past cannabis by this point. Okay. Cannabis was washed. Okay. We had the Dynasty.

We had Stinkonia. We had the best album from that year, the best rap album, which was Ghostface Killers' Supreme Clientel. We had Bigel, The Big Picture. Yo, fuck all the glimmers and glitz. I plan to get rich. I'm from New York and never was a fan of the nix.

This is yes. We had Prodigies, HNIC. I smack niggins like you. Smash niggas by the tools. Grab niggins by the throat. DeAngelo's voodoo. Oh, D.H. That was like the one R&B album that I loved myself at that time.

When some nice Massachusetts shoddies were hopping into your ride, where you just like, yo, sisters, I got something for you. Oh, gosh. It wasn't my favorite year for rap, but it was a very good year for rap, if an awful year for America. But what year in the 21st century can you not say that about with America? So true. So I want to ask this, Cole. Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks, Justin.

To our resident old and to our second in command on the wash meter, Cole. How did you feel about stankonia? Like, how did you feel about it then versus now? Because I think that last song's standing is always very interesting. Because, like, my relationship to the album's changes as we do this exercise. But Outcast is the farthest we've gone back. So it was just, like, having to look at it with adult eyes. So for you, what's changed?

Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't have a good memory as Justin. in terms of this stuff. So I'm trying to think, I've definitely had the album, and I remember definitely enjoying it. But we're going to talk about this in our Stinger section later, what I was listening to at this time.

But this is when I was getting into a certain type of rock music, I won't spoil. But I remember these singles so well. I don't think, I mean, if you're alive at this, during this time, it was hard to escape,

Ms. Jackson, fresh and so clean, and B-O-B to some extent. Returning to it, those singles are going to stand the test of time, I think they are some of the best songs we have ever heard are on this record.

However, the back half of the album, I don't remember being the, I don't know if it was because it felt more right in the era or at the time or if I just don't remember, but the back half of this album feels a little rough in comparison to the first half

to the point where I don't know if it's like the peaks of the first half and these just timeless singles, just kind of overshadow the second half or if the second half is just kind of objectively not strong, what do you think? I was surprised if I was

going back to ATLians and Aquamanai, if I was surprised how just much more I even love the records if that was possible. Stanconia was the one where I'm like, the records I love off this are still the records I love. And everything else sounds dated. Like this, there are points in this, that sound very 2000s.

Yeah. Where it's like if Miss Jackson, B-O-B, so a lot of them sound like the future, there are somewhere I was just like, oh, no, I could tell aftermath was popping. I could tell that there's like, honestly, we've made fun of it a lot. We love these hoes. Sounds like an aftermath record to me. I'm just like, this could have been like a fucking Eminem, like, just toss away record. You know what I mean?

An exhibit feature or something on it. Yeah. Like, it's like just the beat and everything. So I agree with you on that. And I think this is a good segue for our last segment before we start picking songs, album trivia. Or, as I like to call it, Spottieotti-O-Tish. All right. Spotty-O-Ti-A-Tuish is where Cole and I attempt to stump each other with little-known facts about the album.

Whoever gets the most questions correct will get first pick in the last song standing segment at the end of the episode. Who wants to go first? Why don't you hit me with a question? All right, so I'm going to hit you with a softball. This is in a lot, if you were doing your research for this episode, Andre 3000 at this time was having a lot of dreams. You know, he was visiting some of our grades. So Andre 3,000 had a dream while he was making stanchonia,

where Jimmy Hendrix asked what song made him want to play the guitar. Can you name that song? I read about this dream. I don't, I'm trying to, so it's the song that. It's the song that Andre 3000 said influenced him to play the guitar. and he told this to dream Jimmy Hendrix. I'll give you a half point if you can get the artist, right? Full point if you can get the song as well.

It's frustrating because I definitely read this and I just didn't write it down or I forgot it. So it's not a Jamie Hendrick song? It's not a Jimmy Hendrix song. Damn. I'm going to have to tap out. I'm not sure. All right. So I'll give you, I'll give you the artist.

Maybe you can give me the song, Funkadelic. Oh, shit. It's a biggie. I don't know, I don't got it. Maggot Brain. Okay. That was a good one, because here's the thing I was like, Cole's definitely read this interview.

Yeah, he's not going to write this one down. Yeah, that's a good one. All right, you got me. Okay, so if you did the same research, you probably read about this, but maybe, well, this one's easier. Okay. Shortly after Stankonia's release in 2000, a singer from a very prominent band

remix the song, Bombs Over Baghdad. However, this remix would not receive an official release until 2020, for stangonius' 20th anniversary reissue. Who is the singer that made the remix and what band is he in? All right. System of a down. And... Wait, not, wait, wait, what, not System of Down.

It's Zach Dela Rocha. Yes. Yes. Do you know what band, Zach Dela Rocha said? I do. This is now showing your age. I do, but I wasn't bumping them. So it's Zach Dela Rocha.

Fuck. Fuck, I know this band. Just give me the fucking name. Rage Against Machine. It was rage against the machine because you want to know why this is so stuck in my mind now because I was reading,

I think it was in spin. Big Boy was essentially like this is also the sad thing. They talked to so many fucking magazines back then and artists used to just be so more honest and Big Boy and Andre did not like this remix. So here's the back story I read. It was a rist of records that brought them together

although both sides were stoked. Like I said, said at the top, Regigan's Machine was an influence on this album. So they were both excited to get together. So they get it together. They say they're going to do a song together. Outcast goes out of town, comes back, and the remix is done. And that's what they turned in as the collaboration.

And Andre was like, no, if we're going to do a song, let's do an original song together, not a remix. And then Andre claims that Arista just wanted to use the names to get him to sell. a remix to sell the song, didn't really care about the artistic side of it. Of course. The fucking label. It's always the fucking label.

I have some more label shenanigans for my second and last question. Outcast label released Bombs Over Baghdad and Miss Jackson as a DVD, making it the first single to bear DVD credit on the Billboard Hot 100. What other song bears this distinction? Outcast song? This is a completely different artist. Now, I will give you, I'll give this, if you can even just get the artist correct,

not even the song I'll give you a full point. I mean, they had to be a bigger artist, right? Oh, really? But I will say, she created one of my favorite songs of all time that I still sing almost every time. It's a Mariah Carey? Mariah Carey is one of my favorites,

but it's not Mariah Carey. Think a couple rungs lower. Do you know who this is? No. This is an impossible question. What are you doing to him? Just tell him. Tony Braxton's Just Be a Man about it.

I love me some Tony Braxton. Cole, what's your favorite Tony Braxton song? What are you doing to this man? I get so high when I'm around you, baby. Oh! All right, Cole, give me the last question. All right, we're both O-Fer, so let's see. Whoa, I got Zach Delocho.

I can't get a half point. Okay, yeah, I'll give you half point. Half point. You said system of the down first, though. All right. All those bands kind of... I'm a bad music critic, fuck it. Okay, this one's really good,

and it comes with the sound clip. So, in the final chorus of the hit song, Miss Jackson, Big Boy says something faintly in the background. If you listen, you can hear it. What does he say? I'm going to give you multiple choice. Unless you know it, do you know it? Give me multiple choice.

A, I'm sorry, Miss Anderson. That's the real last name of his baby mama's mama. B, your mama, a bitch. See, get to step in mama. Is it get to step? I'll play it for you. I got the acapella isolated vocals of Ms. Jackson so we can hear it very clearly. Your mama, bitch.

That's actually, because I was like watching some stuff on. There's actually a lot of interesting stuff that's isolated in the track that you just never hear because there's so much going on. That's good. That's good. One more time for the listeners. Your mama, bitch. No, we're not spoiling. We have so much to talk about.

about, all right, we're not going to spoil that, but that is hilarious. So I got one, I got a half point on. You got a half point, yeah. So you win. So you'll pick first at the end of the episode when we have to select our last song, standing, you'll get first choice, which actually I'm a little bit mad about it because there's a song I really, really, really, really want. All right.

So now that we've set up the history and themes of Stankonia, it's time to move into the next segment of the show, the nominations. And the Grammy goes to the love below. All right, remember. The goal of each episode of Last Song Standing is for Cole and I to determine the single best song from an Outcast album. The songs we select over the course of the season will then duke it out in a season finale Royal Rumble, where we'll be forced to agree on the last song standing, the single best song by Outcast. Right now, we're each nominating what songs from Stanconia should be in contention. And Cole, why don't you go first? All right. I'm going to go first. Do we start with the obvious. I think there's some obvious ones on here. Do we want a curveball first? I think there are two songs on this that like even the audience knows like if these songs don't get fucking picked, this entire season is invalid. So let's do what you think would be a curveball first. All right. I'm going to go with, it's sorry. The thing with the singles that they're so good,

but we've heard him so many times that it's like it almost counts against them at this point in terms of like, what's your favorite song? But so this one might be my favorite. song, I just can't tell because those singles are just so ubiquitous. But I'm going to go with the opening track, Gasoline Dreams. God damn it. God damn it. That's mine too. Really?

God damn it. I was just here. So here's the thing. I think we could spoil it. Neither of us picked so fresh, so clean, a song that I loved as a child. Yeah. I still love it, but I was like, I just. For me, what it came down to, do we say,

this conversation or just have it now? Let's just have it. All right. Before we, before we like had the full-blown, like, gasoline dreams conversation, what other songs were in contention for you? Because I was just like, do I have to pick so fresh and so clean? Okay, mine came down to, I wrote a list of, you know, the ones that are in consideration. It was gasoline dreams, so fresh or clean, Miss Jackson.

It was Spaghetti Junction as a kind of left field pick and bombs over Baghdad were the kind of the clear ones, humble mumble, you know, great song. But those were pretty clearly at the top of my list. Like question marks great, but like it's not long and big boys not even on it. So those are mine, my short list. What about you? Similar and I just felt like we don't have to spoil. You guys already know what the next two are going to be.

I just felt like so fresh, so clean. It's funny. Even though I still think that this is a great song. If you put it on now, I would start rapping, start dancing. it feels a little bit lesser in 2024, is that fair? Like a lesser single. It hasn't gotten worse. But in terms of like the greatest outcast singles,

I don't even know if So Fresh So Clean would be in the top 10 at this point. I don't know if I'd go that far. But for me, it was like, what does Stankonia represent in their catalog? For me, it was experimentation. It was trying to transcend the boundaries of hip hop. To me, So Fresh So Clean just is a great, great, greatly written song but doesn't really

I mean it's it's special in its own way but in terms of representing this album I just didn't think it was the best it sounds like a big boy song that Andre is a feature on to me because he opens with two verses like that song could easily have been on speaker box right I feel the same way where you can't say that about gasoline dreams or the ones that we're going to pick next like so it just didn't have that extra stuff that I'm looking for when you're when you're

trying to whittle something like this as impossible it is to whittle down. And like, like we kind of mentioned at the top, like Stankonia, I feel like it's very clear what are the strongest songs on here, especially in an exercise like this. So gasoline dreams, explain to the audience. It's like that opening guitar riff, so iconic. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. If you're looking for like a, I mean, it kind of picks up where like equam if you listen to chunky fire which actually has a very prominent guitar like that's the last track on equamini it actually bridges beautifully into gasoline dreams like just sonically except it takes it to like another level yeah the experimentation the the chaos that

the energy that they're going for they just put it in your face right away i'm going to get into the sample which i think is really interesting but before i get into the nerdy stuff tell me why you picked it So the reason I think Gasoline Dreams is such a genius way to start off the album, whereas if you look at the first four outcast albums, I would say Southern Playalistic is the South got something to say record. It is introducing the world and more specifically the United States to an area that had just been overlooked in hip-hop music. And then A.T. Elians is kind of the, oh, we're different. though, the space age record kind of proving that this duo not only represents the South,

but they are special even within that historical context. And then a quem and I to me goes internal very much. And Stankonia is the we just conquered America record. Right. It's everything from the black and white flag that the two are standing in front of.

Gasoline dreams, like bombs over Baghdad. If you go back and like read a lot of the profiles, everybody's asking outcast these very complicated questions where it's like, how do you feel about ecstasy and cocaine and club culture and racism and all of, like, it's just, they were 25 when they made this record and already they're, they kind of seem like old men who have just seen too much of the world. And I think gasoline dreams is that kind of American dream type

song where it's like, oh, I accomplished everything that I set out to when I was a kid. My life has gotten quote unquote better. I'm richer, more successful than any of my wildest dreams. And when I go back to Atlanta, everything is the same, if not worse, for the people that I left there. And I think we've covered that, like, especially like on the Kendrick season where it's like, to me, like, damn is that kind of record where it's like, oh, like, to Pim Butterfly into damn is kind of that realization.

And I think gasoline dreams, if we, and we're going to delve into the lyrics, to me, feels like America at that time on the verge of a war. Why 2K is happening. And it's like these 25-year-olds trying to come to grips with, wait, we're rich, black, and successful and still not happy, especially Andre. Like, big boys always going to be like, yeah, we love these hoes. But Andre is just like, is this? it and I think gasoline dreams, as we kind of delve into the lyrics,

is the perfect kind of like tone setter for this album. Yeah, it's perfect. From the very start, the iconic kind of guitar riff. It's so funny, like, reading in the research, how kind of controversial having a guitar in your record was at this time. Oh, yes, they keep bringing up how scared they were that their core, because at this time, the white audience, they had opened up for, like, Lauren Hill,

they're playing colleges. Their white fans are coming out in droves. And you can kind of feel, especially on Big Boys part, this consternation about, like, oh, if we throw guitars on this, is hip-hop radio going to want to play this? Is black radio going to want to play?

The label also was very concerned with this, too, trying to get the guitar taken off a B-O-B, for instance. Yeah, and it's like, you can't, if I think of stankonia, I'm just like the guitar is actually. are so important to this record. And to your point, if Chunky Fire was almost like, it's a record that not only closes out one record,

but it points towards, oh, they already kind of had this in the back of their mind that the next stop is not just being a hip-hop group, but quite literally becoming rock stars. Right, yeah. And so it does, it's interesting, because we have these original instrumentations, which we know from Outcast production,

they're kind of known for having original, you know, real guitars, real bass, real drums. But then they, on this track, they kind of juxtapose this guitar with actually a sample, which is somewhat rare from them. And it samples the drums and bass of a song called Flaming Youth by Boobie Knight and the Universal Lady from 1976. It's a funk band, funk record. But I found this interesting, though, and we can play, let's play a little clip of the sample.

And so you can hear that that's the foundation of the track. But if you don't hear any of the lyrics from the original song, but if you, I love this kind of stuff, if you go back and listen to the actual song, which of course, Andre or whoever sampled this was doing, the refrain is, flaming youth, we're not blaming you. And then the first verse that says, it's not easy for a child when we're, when he's first growing up to see his whole world around him being torn apart. And that to me like really kind of resonated because everything we just talked about

what this record was trying to express about America at this time. And then you have this, it's sampling. it opens with a sample, a foundational sample of this opening track is speaking to the same thing just 20 years earlier. So you're getting this generational conversation. We talked about this kind of thing

on Mad City, actually, from Kendrick's record, Good Kids at Mad City. Same thing there, like, I love that detail of like, you know Andre was listening to that, then kind of updated this idea that is the same core principle that was being talked about

in the original song, which was, I mean, it's kind of depressing if you think about it, essentially just the resentment or the unhappiness, the chaos, the, you know, unfair treatment, all these generational problems being passed down from one generation to the next. So I just thought that was really cool, that as the opening statement of an album that has an American flag, blacked out, you know, colorless American flag on the cover, which is a statement in itself. Opening with this song, with that, I thought was really cool. and then we can, I mean, we've got to talk about this hook. The hook is so good. It's phenomenal. I mean, you're a writer, Charles.

Like, don't everybody like the smell of gasoline will burn motherfuckers? I'll burn American dreams. Don't everybody like they taste the apple pie? And it's what I think is so interesting about the way, and we can play a little bit of Andre's cliff. Think about the texture of Andre's voice, the urgency. Yeah. In those first couple records, they set. very much like Southern music, I think, in what we think about in its most simple form,

which is like a little bit slower, BPMs are slower, being dragged through mud. It's not chopped and screwed. But there is a sense that like Big Boy and Andre never, we're never really pushed out of that pocket that they established in those first three records. And this chorus, the first time you hear Andre, he sounds mad. There's like, there's this like weird distortion crunchiness to his voice. And it's like, don't everybody like to smell of gasoline while burn motherfucker burn American dreams.

Don't everybody like the taste of apple pie? It's like it is, he's bringing forth instead of, because for so much of their history before this, it was establishing what the South was. And now they're diving even deeper and being like, no, we're talking about what is America and how do us as black men and black artists fit in that. And I think when you even go to Andre's first verse, to me, this is like, it's weird to say like gasoline dream kind of like teases what's going to happen in Miss Jackson. But he says, all of my heroes did dope. Every nigger round me playing married or paying child support, I can't cope.

And it wasn't until reading where I was just like, wait. So if Andre and Big Boy are only 25 when they make this record or around 24, 25, you have to think about probably how heartbroken they are at this moment where at the point where they're their most successful selling their most records, both of them are paying child support, have baby mamas that it didn't work out seemed around the same time. And I was just like, oh,

St. Coney's not a breakup record, but it is these two trying to be like, wait, I can't have it all. And it's like even Big Boys, big boys isn't about that, but his first thing he says, is shitty like Ricky Streaten got a million bucks, my cousin Ricky Waller got

10 years doing a Fed time on a first offense drug bus. Like, once again, for a record that I think we think of as so fresh, so clean, bombs over Baghdad, very exciting, very whatever. It's interesting that they both start this record off with the many tragedies that are happening in their personal life. Right. And then, yeah, even like one of my favorite lines from Big Boys first a little bit after that, he says, arrest me for this dope. I didn't weigh it up or cook it. You got to charge the world because over a million people took it. So it's like he's calling out, it's like, he's essentially saying, this is, this is the backbone of the American economy, economy is supply and demand. Yeah. And so he's saying, you're targeting these low-level drug dealers when there's a million people, this is, this is a demand for this product, you know, and it exemplifies the problem of America.

Why are these people, why are so many people yearning for these escapes through drugs? And so it's such an indictment of America at the time just in that little couplet. Again, they're kind of widening their scope. You know what I mean? It's not just about them. They're really trying to say something about the landscape of America. And so this, and I got to point out, like, a really cool detail about the chorus where, you know, it opens with, don't everybody like the smell of gasoline, burn motherfucker, burn American dreams. And then at the end, he says, Highway up to heaven got a crook on the toll, youthful of fire, ain't got nowhere to go, nowhere to go.

That to me is so cool because, like, he sets up this. idea about gasoline where we like the smell of things that's dangerous, right? Which is saying something about America. And then you have youth full of fire, nowhere to go. If they're full of fire and it's smelling like gasoline everywhere, they try to do anything, they're going to explode. So it's just like a really cool little full circle detail within the scope of the chorus that I thought was just really cool. And a fun fact. So it's so funny reading about the genesis of these songs that are so powerful. But like he said, what inspired you. of the song was that he was just at the gas station and it smelled like gas.

He just wrote down the line and then it turns into this like, you know, huge statement, but... I'm actually so pissed that we agree on gasoline dreams. This is going to be the problem with this season where it's like, I have outcast hot takes, but they're so bad. I think it's this is, I don't, like, I'll tell you our next episode on ATLians, it's like that's going to be way harder to pick three songs. Like, this to me was easy, easier to pick off. because it's so clear. It's so clear. Like, Justin,

are you of the opinion as well as we are that, like, stanchonia was the, we picked this one first because I think it is probably the one that your average fan is just like, I know most of these songs. Justin, it does fall off a little bit. I think it's interesting. I think it's,

we've been talking a lot about how, privately, we've been talking a lot about how the back half of the album is a little weaker. I think there are some good songs on the back half. Red Velvet. I love Red Velvet. Red Velvet's really good. Humble Mumble.

I like Humble Mumble, too. I kind of like Gangsta shit. Oh, man. I can't. What's wrong with gangsta shit? Well, here's the thing. And I think, before we go to our next song, the thing I've realized about Stanconia is, we all know that Stankonia was like the beginning of the end.

Because to your point, like, there's some song, and this was throughout their career. But you can really tell which songs were the, Andre songs. So Fresh, So Clean is a Big Boy song. Right. Ms. Jackson started with Andre playing on the guitar, basically kind of coming to Big Boy and be like, what do you think?

And I think that's my issue with this album where it's like, at least with speakerbox love below, you're kind of like, oh, these are two totally different albums that they put together. Stankoni is the beginning where I'm like, oh, there's certain songs where you all connected and it was sublime. And then there's a bunch of songs where I'm like, oh, one of y'all won out. And it's very noticeable. Yeah, that does give it a kind of disjoint and feel at times. I also will give this, I mean, they were clearly experimenting.

So, like, you know, sometimes you don't always hit when you're, you know, when you're in there trying to do something new. So to give them credit, they were trying a lot of new things. And so. Aquam and I also, like, let's be clear, a quim and I got a five, a five out of five mics. in the source. They're coming off of like what many people at the time were like, this is a perfect record.

So it was like stankoneo. It is amazing that after a record that they're like, this is perfect. Outcast is like, all right, we're going to make one of the biggest albums of all time. Yeah, and give him credit for even doing it. They could have made a Quimini part too.

You know, like I always give respect to these artists working on this level, taking these kind of risks. Again, if it doesn't, all the songs don't hit, fine. But we got some of the best songs ever in this experimentation. So it's hard to criticize it too much, in my opinion. To me, I just want to jump in on that.

And I know we're going to move on to other songs. And, you know, I know that you guys are the Andre. I'm just the Rico Wade here. The Rico Wade? I was going to say, you don't want to be like Killer Mike? I think there's a thing sometimes where an artist makes something that is kind of objectively a masterpiece. And I'm not always saying, like, necessarily the best thing, my favorite thing they've ever done, but like this objective masterpiece. And then they want to follow it up with something messier.

And I think like another obvious example of that is Kanye going from my beautiful Doctor of Fantasy to Yeezis. Or I would say Kendrick Lamar going from like damn to Mr. Morale where you're just like, oh, that is a mess. Mr. Moral is a way messier record. Right. And I think sometimes artists, when they get to that point and they feel like they've done the thing, they feel like they have really. the peak of their powers. The next thing they do might be very good, but it might be a little messy. Yeah, like the average fan might be a little like, eh, I don't know, this isn't what I came for.

But that's what Stankonia is to me. So the experimentation doesn't always work, but I get it. And it's, you know, the fact that we got these two guys being able to take a swing like this at this point in their career is just, like, it's actually a gift that we got that, even if it's not always perfect. And it's kind of like the last outcast record in a way. Oh, I take it as the last outcast. Speaker Boxing Love Below to me is not an outcast record. It's branded outcast, but yeah, it's literally two separate albums. So, you know, to end on this, I'll take it.

All right, guys, it's time for round two. We have to start round two with an important question. Cole, Uno Dose, Trace, it's on. Did you ever think of PIM? Rock a microphone. Yes or no? yes we are talking about

and I know we're in agreeance I did not even here's the thing we don't ever really talk about our picks yeah we always want them to be a surprise but I know for a fact

that Cole we're brothers and we both can understand that this might be one of the greatest songs of all time

bombs over fucking bad dad let's go all right I will say this as a kid, some of my favorite memories were sitting in front of the television and popping on MTV or BET, the first time I saw this video, I was like, what is happening? It's Andre waking up in his bedroom, running out of the project homes

that he actually grew up in the... Across the street. He overlooked these projects. He overlooked these projects. the grass. It's purple. It's multi-color. It's like I don't, like a kid you guys not.

I almost started crying this morning. Just seeing like a young Andre running with these kids and just kind of realizing like, oh, I was like seven or eight watching this. And I'd listened to rap before. I never heard two guys rap like this with that much passion and speed and dexterity using the words they were using. The beat was like, oh, like, it's electric. It felt like a dream.

And I was like a little fucking kid just dumbed. I was like, this is the greatest thing fucking ever. And I listened to Bombs over Baghdad still. And each single time I still kind of get that glimmer of, oh, this is like the possibility of hip hop. Can you take me back, Cole? What was it like hearing bombs over Baghdad for the first time? I mean, I remember specifically loving this song. I was the guy was like, be obese better than Miss Jackson, you know, like I was trying to be like the artsy guy.

But like, because this single wasn't like huge, huge. It definitely wasn't even anywhere near Ms. Jackson commercially. It peaked at like 69 or something. Yeah. It's like it didn't really hit in the way that we might remember it. But at least, I mean, God, I just remember, I don't know if I remember thinking this now or then, but now it's just like, I still haven't heard a song like this. No. It's like, it's such a one of one in the truest sense of the word.

I can go into some analysis stuff, but you gave us the backstory, but why is it for you musically, lyrically or whatever? Like, why does it stand out to you as one of the best songs ever? I think it's a couple things. In the 2000s especially, growing up, I loved rap in a kid, in the way that, like, children love rap. We're just like, oh, they're rhyming words together, and they say something funny. Like, you have daughters, and, like, they listen to, like, not like us, and it's just, like, the nursery rhyme quality of some of the stuff, Kendrick. And you just don't, or it's the beat or something. And bombs over Baghdad was the first time as a kid where I went from, oh, I just like music and like rap to feeling as if this genre and these two guys rapping to me through the TV understood something about the universe that I wanted to.

And they had some type of talent and some type of hold magic over me that I could not quite explain. And honestly, as a music critic, is probably why I continue to do this job of like how does it. artist create something that's three or four or five minutes that make that reconstitutes the way that I see reality and it's even when I when you go to like Andre's first verse when he says thunder pounds when I stop the ground like a million elephants so sit oranguttings you can't stop the train yeah it's like what's so hard about that is I think the BPMs of this are like 153 or something like that. Yeah, 155, yeah. Yeah, 155. So it's like way fucking faster than anything that these two have wrapped on until that point. Do you know how difficult it is to not only wrap over a beat

that is that fast because you're basically having to use like one to two to three syllable word, like words to make sure you are hitting the beat. In an interview, Andre was just like, yo, if you don't come correct on this type of record, it's just going to fucking destroy you. So to rhyme million elephants, silver back orangutans with you can't stop the train. And that's the beginning of the verse. And he has to keep going. I know. Yeah. Is just a level of technical proficiency that, like, even as a child when you're listening to it, a child can understand, oh, no, this is different than every other record that I'm listening to, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, I was trying to think of what other rappers

can one just survive on a song like this two, and more importantly, make it palatable for the masses. Yeah. It's like incredible. And to capture the energy of the song in not only the delivery, like you pointed out with Andre's opening verse, because he matches the energy

just technically, rhythmically, that aspect. But then to recite the first line again, because it literally matters. He says Insleeum National Underground Thunder pounds when I stump the ground, like a million elephants and silver back of rangatans, you can't stop the train. Like the silver, a thousand silver back of rank. Like that captures the energy lyrically of this song.

And then you see the kids running down the hill. Yeah, it's from national underground thunder pounds when I stump the ground. Like a million elephants or silver back or rang a tank, you can't stop a train. Who on some don't come unprepared I'll leave there. But when I leave there, better be a hustle name. Brother man telling us it ain't going to rain. They just hit it on all levels where they created this beat, this foundation. for the song that 99 out of 100, maybe even more,

would fail to live up to their own foundation, right? And they just hit it out of the park. It's like, it's phenomenal. And it's interesting, like, you wouldn't think Big Boy would be a, wouldn't be the most natural rapper you would pair with a song like this. But he finds a way, and I think it's a cool production detail. Because the difference between Andre's voice, especially on Stangonia and Big Boy's voice,

I feel like, are more magnified than ever. In terms of what they're good at, what pockets, what beats they fit on naturally, where Andre, I feel like, is the more obvious pairing with a song like this. But they break down the production. If you notice on Big Boys' beat, they take a lot of the elements out. So it's mostly just the drums so that his voice can shine. Because technically he's keeping up with Andre, he's keeping up at the beat. But his voice just doesn't have the timbre to cut through, like, Andre, over all that crazy stuff.

Oh, it's traces on. Did you ever think of film rock a microphone like that devil? So there's just little things happen every time we meet Like a track ain't crash ain't dying a geek Outcast bumping up and down the street So there's little details like that Where it's like they were able to even make Andrei shine Or sorry, Big Boy shine

Within a song that maybe you wouldn't think to pair him with Naturally organically And he does a phenomenal job too I love Big Boy's verse on this Because to your point Once they start pairing that back What draws me to Big Boy What has always is that

He's able to rock And this is, it's almost, it's really hard to do this because everybody's always like, well, if Andre is the space age alien person, then Big Boys the more classical pimp type. So usually his role on a record is to be the laid back, grizzled, wizen, pimp who's seen everything, done everything. And to your point, for bombs over Baghdad, that's almost the BPMs is forced. him to almost get out of that and he doesn't when he says uno dose trace it's on did you ever think a pimp mock or microphone he's it still sounds so cool it's not like he's he's not trying to rap fast yeah and most people when they start rapping fast you can tell that it's like a challenge and even even in this i'm like i was watching the video i was like oh yeah they did have a stunt

double that's fucking jumping off a car onto a tour bus and big boy still is just like dog this is not even a fucking swear. Like, I love Big Boys verse so much. It's phenomenal. And then we got to talk about the chorus, of course. Sung by gospel choir. Morris Brown College, gospel choir. Just like such, I mean, do you think about the

elements that are on this song? It's like, we got this like jungle drum and bass inspired beat. You have electric guitar, you have a choir. You know what I mean? You have this like bouncy bassline synthesizers. And just all these elements coming together. iconically on the chorus of course it's bombs over Baghdad which then gets kind of extrapolated

it's like this is not a political song as much as you might think it is given that everything we just talked about but essentially like at least what they said about it was that you know bombs over bagdad Andre heard this phrase just on the news randomly thought it sounded cool and Operation Desert Fox was going on at the time where the U.S. bombed Iraq but they kind of bombed the excurs, like the outside. And Andre was making this case, or analogy, I guess, where what they thought

about the state of hip hop, you know, if you're, it was essentially them trying to push the boundaries. If you're going to do something, do it all the way. So if you're going to bomb, bomb all the way. And they're trying to, like, make this analogy. That then was, like, kind of extrapolated and, like, used kind of gross. I don't know, Justin, maybe, do you remember

this song a few years later when the Iraq war came? It was kind of used as this weird. co-opted. Yeah. Weird war anthem. Do you remember that at all? Yes. I mean, I feel like if you like see a clip on like MTV news or something talking about the Iraq war, they would just like play the instrumental or something like that. And I'm just, I don't remember this specifically. Right. Yeah. But to me, like it almost took on a political, um, overtone in a different way where it was, I think more likely to be co-opted by people who oppose the war than by people who were for it. Like I don't think. But, but. But, Very quickly over the next two years, because there was an LA Times article that actually interviewed Big Boy about, like... They, like, had to clarify. You clarified that, like, oh, this is not in support of the war. We are anti-the-war.

Oh, well, I miss... Forget about me then. And that actually happened that people, their understanding of it was this was pro? I read, if I remember this correctly, that the people over in Iraq would play this song, literally, as they're taking the battlefield. Do the soldiers. But like pump to pump up. I have the quotes. So this is what Big Boy told the LA Times.

We make a record and then is up to the people to take what they want from it. We explain a song when people ask, but we can't control how they feel about it. In our case, fans know where we stand pretty much. I talk to them in the street all the time. I really think Bush should have gone through the United Nations before going over there. But once the fighting starts, everything changes. So I think even at the time, Big Boy was just like, hey, the song is out of our hands, but OutKaz does not support this thing.

What I think also is interesting about bombs over Baghdad is I did not realize how much it was, especially Andre in this instance, trying to come to terms with how music was changing, especially ecstasy club music. He told Rolling Stone at the time, we was at this party in London, and they were playing drum and bass music with an MC rhyming.

There wasn't anything killing me in hip-hop at the time, but woo that shit was tough. They make all their beats on computers overseas. Our shit is harder, but theirs is more complex. It was the tempo I was looking for, so I thought about how to Americanize it. Techno was too cheesy and dance-oriented for people over here.

And I'm like, that's such an interesting way to describe bombs over Baghdad because I'm just like, all right, it has the guitar riff, it has a choir singing over it, but it has this drum and bass groove, and there's fucking Mr. DJ doing like scratches at the end.

It's all of these elements of popular music, past, present, and basically future. All colliding and you would be like this sounds like it would be the worst fucking if I describe it to you, you're like that's the worst sounding shit. It's like it's fusion music which I don't know about you.

When I hear fusion, I hear it I want to throw up because it's usually gross and it's not good. But this is a fusion song in the truest sense the word, but it doesn't sound like your... Are you saying that B-O-B could have been like a Lincoln Park song? Can you imagine a Lincoln Park song? All right, can I just, because you brought up the drums. I just have to play what I, my favorite moment, I got the instrumental of the song.

It's about 25 seconds in. It's the drum fill in And Andre's verse. Can we just, let's just hear that. Right here. Dude, are you kidding me? Like, that is, that is fucking just, I have no, no technical thing to say about it. It's just fucking so good. How do they not get swallowed by this beat is what I always think about, where I'm just, like, pretty much any other rapper at that time.

I'm like, yeah, the beat is so insane and almost so hard to tackle. And it was, like, going back and, like, researching it, I didn't realize that, like, they basically invited this. Like, they were trying to create a song. that sounded exactly like this. And I'm like, oh, that's the insane part where they're just like, oh, we wanna be. You can tell Andre on this song is getting tired of rapping. Where it's like he's so good at this point,

where he's like, I need to make something that is so hard to rap over that it wakes me up and jolts me. Another detail like I gotta point out is the intro, as just as tiny of a moment as it is, we get this like spacey, this part, which is just the chord progression of the song on a new instrument. But the contrast...

Yeah. The contrast makes it... It's just like all these little details that... Because you can just start the song and it's going to be a punch and it has the tempo, it's got the energy, it would work. But then to have that just... That one thing that just puts it over the edge where you're going to start it slow and just... And kind of just surprise... Like, to me, it hits every single time.

I've heard this song a thousand times. Yeah. And every time I get so pumped up when Andre starts saying, one, two, three, four. And the beat kicks in. It's just you feel it every... every single time. Also, like, I didn't realize Natal really diving into the song. The song, it's one, it's perfectly divided in half in terms of Andre and Big Boy depart the

song like literally to the second halfway through the song, two minutes and 32 seconds into a five minute and four second song. Meaning literally half the song is instrumental with guest features, with guitar. solo. So where the third verse should be is a guitar solo, which again, the label wanted to take out. We get the bridge with a bob your head, ragtop with a new chord progression. Then we get the

outro bridge, which is the power music, electric revival, with all the what you said with the DJ scratching and the guitar still wailing and the chorus with a new chord progression. And so it's like, you don't realize it when you're listening to it, but Andre and Big Boy piece out from the song halfway through

it. Yeah. And he still listen. I still listen to the end. And because they built in all these different parts of the song with new textures, different arrangements that keep your interest in instrumental essentially where this is in a time where

three verses, I think, are still the standard. You expect them to keep rapping, but they just don't. And, you know, this is a five-minute single. I think they made a radio version, but Andre said, like, the label cut out the guitar solo, he didn't. It's very much like a rate,

Like, you can imagine where it's like, Andre's like, well, if this is like kind of my play on what you would, what I would want to hear at a rave. It's so funny. There's like, what I want to hear on a rave is the drop to have the fucking loudest guitar and fucking scratches on it and a choir and all this stuff. It's like, only Andre. Yeah, rave music, too boring. We need to put some more shit on this, bro. Yeah. And just the video, the end is so cool.

Like, if we're talking about that quote I read, where you know, said, I remember reading about human beings and if everybody is in the same place, humanity can go to another dimension. I was just trying to make the impossible out of music, make people rise in some kind of way. Like all these people we see running and driving in the music video all end up in a literal church as this eclectic congregation. You got all these dancers, DJs, gospel choir, guitar player, all unified in a literal church. And then at the end of the video, you see them taking off in a flying saucer that's to stankonia. seven light years away.

And so it's just like this beautiful symbolism of this unification through music to transport us to another dimension outside of this kind of shitty place we're living in America. So it's like as a song that represents not only this album, but this band, this duo, it's just like, I'm going to just say this one is my early favorite to be the last song standing not only of this episode, but of this entire thing. and it's like it's it's it's theirs to lose I think so all right so if I was going to be a hater which I can't this is a perfect song but if I was going to play devil's advocate for

bombs over bagdad okay when I think about outcast songs I think about how important almost like melody when I talk about melody I'm more so talking about the Andre like the dichotomy of it of like you have the cool laid-back pimp and big boy and you have especially as they're kind of as Andre's growing into his voice always having something that's a little bit like that and bombs over Baghdad is just rapping

it is not Miss Jackson would probably be the perfect example of just like you have the rapping you have the melody you have the message you have all this stuff where bombs over Baghdad is almost an outlier in outcast entire discography because they don't really ever rap with this type

They're rapping with energy, but they never wrap this type of energy. Which is honestly why Bombs over Baghdad is one of my favorite Outcast songs, because it just stands alone almost because they never really go back to this. Like they never make a song like this before it. They never make a song like this after. Right. So you're saying it might not be the best representation of what we think of Outcast as. As we're just like, musically, yeah. Because we always go back to like if an alien is coming to America.

Or like, was like, show me what popular music is, what Outcast is. I would rush to be like bombs over Baghdad. And then they would go listen to Southern Play Alistic or AT. aliens would be like, wait. Yeah. This doesn't sound like. Yeah. But I'm not saying that takes it out of it. That's a good point, though.

In this exercise, that's a great point. Because it is. Yeah, you want a song that can hit all bases. So that's a great point. But still bombs over Baghdad's because it's going to be hard to beat. I'm just going to say, should we get into our third pick? But actually, we've got to take a break. And then we're going to get into our third.

third pick. All right. I think everybody at this point knows that there's only one song that we can pick for round three. What is it called? Miss Jackson. I'm sorry, Miss Jackson. Oh, I am for real. Put some odd of tune on that, you know, just for the ladies. Sorry, Miss Jackson. Ooh, I am for real. Never meant to make you down. Sorry, Ms. Jackson. All right, Miss Jackson, it's hard to really explain to people who aren't there how fucking massive this song was. It's like, once again, going back and watching the video, I'm like, oh, this was the point. This was, I would honestly say 2000 is probably we're getting to the moment where I'm just like, oh, the video is kind of part of the song forever. Yeah.

Where it's when I listen to this song, I see the owl. I was going to say, yeah, exactly. I see Andre, like, running to, like, put all the pots and pants to get the rainwater. It's both bombs over Baghdad and Miss Jackson, to me, are perfect music videos and perfect songs. And I cannot, they're interchangeable. I saw this video so much, and I heard Miss Jackson, which is to hear a song that is essentially about two of the most famous rappers, in the world, essentially being big boys like, hey, yo, not only fuck my baby mom, fuck her mom too, and then Andre, a couple, a couple bars later being like, hey, you know,

I actually want to apologize to Erica Badu and her mother. I'm feeling really torn up about that. And then Big Boy comes back and be like, and again, fuck him. The third verse, he just goes in harder than the first verse. Which is, I think the bittersweet thing about Ms. Jackson, and I was thinking about this, is I think it is probably the perfect outcast song in terms of if you're trying to think about the synthesis of what makes these two great

where you have Andre 3000 making this melodic, existential, emotional ode to kind of this failed partnership that he had with Erica Badoo, but using the prism of, No, I want to actually explain why I'm sorry to your mom. It's this beautiful, like even the melody that he's using on the chorus. And then we've already joked about it.

Kind of big boy screed of like, yo, I'm not invited to this shit anymore. Like, I am upset. I'm letting all of this out. That is the bittersweet part of it is I don't know if Outcast ever gets here again. They got there on Southern Playalistic, ATLians, and Aquamanai. I think Miss Jackson is the last time together. We ever kind of got those two as like, oh, this is why a big boy solo career and an Andre solo career are interesting, but was never as fulfilling because I'm like neither of these two could have made Miss Jackson alone. No, and I think I have the same exact note as Miss Jackson has a representation of the perfect fusion.

between them. One, one, because it's like, Andre has this very sentimental close to heart song that he writes, and he allows Big Boy to express exactly how he feels. And so you, you know, and that speaks to their career of letting each other evolve and express themselves in these different ways where, like, big boys standing next to Andre while he's shirtless in a turban on AT aliens or like taking all these wearing a dress, you know what I mean? This is early 2000s, early or late 90s even like that stuff for big boy to stand next to and andre while he was experimenting with that kind of thing i think it's beautiful and it speaks to what we hear musically yeah for me miss jackson it's a perfect expression of that synthesis that makes them so very special you also get the full

range of what outcast presents in terms of Andre's singing also rapping big boys rapping expressing himself it's like you get the yin yang the two sides of the coin I think, tell me if I'm wrong, like, because Big Boy just is honest without his relationship with his baby mama's mama, doesn't that make the song almost better or even more like accessible or relatable? Because you're getting both sides of the coin where people out there are able to connect in different ways to the same song. Does that make sense? No, that makes perfect sense because I also think what we take for granted now is that when Andre 3000 goes on his kind of legendary, feature on where it's like not legendary in terms of like he was featured on a lot of records, but I think that was when a lot of the myth of Andre 3000 is miracle,

lyrical type, one of the most gifted rappers, if not one of the best rapper we've ever witnessed. That kind of gets solidified during that run. But what I think is beautiful about Ms. Jackson is Andre kind of gets to go to those places because Big Boy at that time is always grounding their music in a tradition. And it's not just a rap tradition. It's a southern tradition where it's like, oh, if Andre is trying to be like, oh, how can we be futuristic? How can I make my version of a Prince record?

How can I do this? It's Big Boy coming on the record and just being like, yo, fuck everything that's going on with my family. I'm going to talk about how a lot of guys feel, that anger. Right. Where it's like, if you take Big Boys version. verses out, Miss Jackson is almost a little too saccharine to me. It's almost a little too preachy.

And it's because Big Boys going so hard on it, you're like, part of you, I was re-listing to the lyrics. I was like, it's intense, too. It's, I was like, ugh. And then Andre, something, I'm sorry, Ms. Jackson, who? And I want to read something because it's like, I don't think that they were talking about Ms. Jackson, but this was a spin article at the same time. I was like, he might have been talking about Ms. Jackson where they go, we did clash on a

but I understand his, Andre was saying this about Big Boy, his point a lot of times. I changed my voice or something like that. And when he came into the studio, he was like, a really man nigs don't like when you change your voice. And I was like, cool, whatever. His comments actually made me sing much better. And after the album was said and done, it worked. We both want the best for the group.

I'm always looking for what's next for us. Big Boy makes sure that we take the people who are with us the last time where we're going next. And I think that's what works really good, man. and that Miss Jackson to me is this, where it's like, we kind of also take for granted. How weird the chorus of Miss Jackson is, if you were a fan of Southern Playyllistic, to see how much better of a rapper and a singer Andre gets and how he's like, he's hooting on this. He's carrying the tune.

I'm like, oh, a lot of the day ones were like, what the fuck? like, give me bombs over. I'd rather listen to bombs over the bag down than Miss Jackson, but then Ms. Jackson becomes this type of hit where it's like soccer moms and their kids and TRL are playing this. And that's what I love about this song where it's just like, oh, Andre has to push Big Boy out of his comfort zone to make something that is honestly such a pop record. And to the other side of the coin, like Big Boy grounds Andre when he needs to be grounded sometimes, you know what I mean? So, again, the compliment is there.

the interesting thing going back to this song, it's so ubiquitous and you've heard it so much that it's like, I thought, oh, I know Ms. Jackson. Like, I know it. But then I was actually listening to it, I was like, oh, like, I actually haven't heard a lot of the stuff that's on this record. Like, if you, there's a YouTube stream,

someone got a hold of the project files of Ms. Jackson and is able to isolate a lot of the production stuff going on, there's just like some incredible sound that you, once you hear them isolated, you'll pick out in the actual song. Like, do you hear in the chorus the guy in the background going, like screaming in the background?

Listen for it next time you hear the chorus. There's also some shit that like, even like, because I've watched a couple of the isolated ones where it's like, even like Andre, you hear Andre and Big Boy doing like basically like ad libs or I'm like, I've never heard. heard this in the mix before, but that's because the chorus and everything around it is so infectious, where it's like, what do you start really? You're just like, oh, they're doing a lot of interesting things texturally building. Okay, yes, to that same point, do you know there's rain playing throughout Andre's entire verse? Yes. Okay, yeah, I just noticed that, like, as I was prepping for this. I never heard the rain throughout the, like, which is like, perfect, like, because his is more somber, and you get that, what does he say right before it? You can't control the weather. And you get the lightning strike.

Yes. And so people out there listen, after that lightning strike, if you listen closely, you can hear him rapping over rain sound. Okay, so this is as close as a conspiracy theory, most dissectable moment I'm going to get on this episode. I don't know, this is again, I don't know if I just heard this song so many times that I wasn't really listening. But it was only this week that I realized, and I don't think it's a theory. I think it's a very, it's a thing. They're interpolating the bridal chorus on the hook.

Charles, it sounds like you didn't notice that, but Justin. So this is this a common thing? Like people just like a suit, like just knew this about it? Yeah, yeah. So did you hear that ever, Charles, that make that connection? I never picked up on this. Maybe I'm dumb as hell. Well, I didn't pick up on it.

I'm the fucking music guy. I'm supposed to be. But here, listen. So after that, done, done, da-da, listen to just the piano isolated. So when you hear isolated, you can hear it's pretty clear. What makes it really clear is the guitar like, though. So they just play it verbatim. You don't hear that until the very end.

Yeah, and I should be clear. Like, I heard that at the very end. Okay. But did you hear that at the very end? I heard it at the well it fades out as it does it too so again this is me just like not ever really listening to the song

you know what I mean okay all right because what you just played about the in the chorus with the piano no I never picked up on that but I heard that at the end of the song so I was like yeah this is there's also a part where it plays

during Big Boys verse his third verse his second half of that third verse okay it plays very briefly there okay the guitar yeah okay so that so what's cool one it's like this

this song about having children out of wedlock, right? So you're getting this evocation of the famous Bridal Chorus. What's really fucking cool, at least for me, because you know I love shit like this, these chords, so this, the traditional bridal chorus, this one, it's a major key, the happy key, essentially. Bright, of course, it's the Bridal Chorus.

It should be celebratory. But what you hear on Ms. Jackson are minor chords. So they're interpolating, minor chords are more, sadder, somber chords. So in a song about having children out of wedlock and expressing their feelings for not only their baby mom, but the baby mom's mom, you're having them interpolate the bridal chorus, which should be the celebratory thing with minor chords, with sad chords, which is just the fucking coolest detail that I didn't realize until just this week. So let me play the chords again and just notice that they're just a little bit more somber than the traditional bridal chorus.

So it's just a cool detail I've never been This might be your fastest dissection Like the minute you said it I was just like This fucker Alright right man Because here's the thing

You were trying to tell me this whole You're like I don't know if I'm gonna have As many dissected rules Dida didda da da Hey man that was quick You were quick on the drawing that one All right Can I just play you

Because it's because it's really fun And funny The isolated Andre vocals on the bridge Please Have you heard Do you notice him making dog sounds No. Okay, so there's actual dog samples.

So when he says puppy love, there's puppy samples and then... Yeah, they're actual dog samples. But then there's one, when you hear isolated, it's so funny. So let's just play it. Did you have a special thing going on. We got a special kind of thing. You know what that. We say it's for a grower.

Did you ever hear him say, do that? So I've heard that. But it's like, here's a lot. problem. The second half of that sounds so much like a dog that I just thought it came from the same sample pack of other dogs. But the first half sounds so human. Like I'm like, oh shit, of cool. Like that's also the thing where it's like I have this theory when a song gets too ubiquitous, it becomes so much harder to hear it because your mind, like my mind a lot of times, because I feel like I know this song so perfectly. It's a me.

Like it like it shuts off. It shuts off my radar and it's not until you isolate the motion. Like, no, I've heard this so many times before, but my mind and my ear just like move past it. Can I talk to you about like this is lyrically one of my favorite parts of this song? It comes from Andre's verse. So it comes right after the like, I think one of the best moments in pop music when it's like forever, forever, ever, ever, forever. Perfect. But I love, and he does this throughout his career,

but I love when Andre, basically, I kind of kind of like a run-on sentence flow. Yeah. Where it's like he's saying, he's like doing this run-on sentence, and then he doesn't finish the thought until he comes back on the next bar. So he does it, let's see.

He's like, and notice that day-by-day rule it can't be too wrong. Ms. Jackson, my intentions were good. I wish I could become a magician. into abercadabba all the sadda thoughts of me thoughts of she thoughts of he asking like he's like he's doing this thing where it's like he's rapping basically so fast run on where it's like he's not completing his thought until he's starting the next bar and i'm just like oh it's something where it was like i was looking through it i was just like you know i know that he's doing it but it's not until i'm reading the lines or i'm right oh fuck that's why i like it so much because you're he's

basically teasing you with a thought and he's like oh i'm not going to finish this until i come back. And it's like even something where it's like, oh, big boy would I like is gasoline dreams. What does that start with? The chorus, they're questioning all these things. Don't everybody like to taste an apple pie? What does Big Boy say in his, in his first boy? He's trying to get a piece of the American pie or take a bite of the American pie or whatever it is. And I'm like, oh no, this is like, that's what makes kind of like all of these, the three that we've picked, such like, to this whole project, gasoline dreams, bombs over Baghdad, Ms. Jackson,

because they're always going back to that central theme of, what is the American dream, what's the American pie, the smell of gasoline, bombs over Baghdad, they're always going back to these 25-year-olds

are really trying to say, what is our place in the American firmament and what is our peoples? And that's why I love Ms. Jackson because I'm like, this could have just been some, random fucking song

about their issues with their baby mother's mothers and instead they are still kind of going back to this generational thing of why isn't it not working for us? Yeah. Because the thing that's really this song is saying is like

we made all this money. We have all this fame. We have all the success. Why the fuck did we are we falling into the same traps that our mothers and fathers did and their mothers and fathers did? Which I find like so honestly

like as hopeful as the song is, a little heartbreaking. It is. Yeah. We're at like age 25, they're already realizing like, wait, did we fuck up like our parents before us? Which kind of is like, oh, shit. Yeah, I mean, again, it reminds me of how cool that the opening sample on Gasoline Dreams is,

where it's a previous couple generations talking about the same thing. And then they're kind of figuring out, like, why, why are we doing the same shit that they did when we know better? You know what I mean? I mean, even Andre sings it. during the bridge me and your daughter

got a special thing going on you say it's popular like even that him being like basically saying to Eric about Abuu's mom who loved this song but what did ask for publish

he's just like yo where's my publishing what I think is beautiful about that bridge is even Andre's realizing that at the age of 25 of like oh I fell in love with this woman

and even her mom at that point was just like all right we'll see which is that bittersweet of a thing Which it's like, I mean, we've all had that memory of like having that person that we 100% thought we were going to, you know, marry and grow old with and we're naive and young and it doesn't work out. And the older, you know, they kind of have a right to be skeptical. I mean, is that how you and Justin feel now that I'm out on these L.A. I'm going to say, this is reminded me of the conversation we had before this podcast.

I'm like, I met my wife, guys. And you're just like, what happened to the other three? You've been quiet over there, Justin. I want to ask you a very, very... We're going to open this to the floor. What is the better song? Bombs over Baghdad or Miss Jackson? Because I can make...

There's my favorite, which would be bombs over Baghdad. But I do think Miss Jackson is probably more of a complete statement as a song. And Justin, actually before it, because you didn't talk about... Just so we hit so fresh and so clean in the same conversation. Do you, are you on the same page with us about that song, maybe not being in contention like these two? I, it's a great song.

It just doesn't, it just doesn't stand out like these other two. It's just, it's a different thing. And like I get that for a lot of people, a lot of people might prefer it to something like bombs over bagged. Right. Not me. Just not what I'm looking for.

Out of Out of Outcast in particular. Wait, who in the world prefers so fresh, so clean over bombs over bagged? I think we're going to get some people pushing back on that. Really? Maybe it's because I feel like bombs over Baghdad and Ms. Jackson are so perfect. Where I'm just like, if we're talking just technical rap, like, I like So Fresh So Clean. When So Fresh So Clean came out as a kid, I was just like, these are the coolest people that have ever fucking existed. How was, like, the video was like, how is this fucking possible?

So Fresh So Clean has 265 million streams on Spotify, bombs over Baghdad, 100 million. Meanwhile, Ms. Jackson, over a billion. So Is this just like I don't I always just thought bombs over Baghdad was just like Clearly the best

Yeah I mean Were you Do you have a musical brain And you're in it Not You can see why Miss Jackson Even so it's just more palatable Like it's gonna hit

The average listener A little bit cleaner I think Oh boy this is a tough question Because there are two ways to look at it though We're talking Miss Jackson versus bombs over Baghdad Miss Jackson's a better pop song To me, as we're going through

Last Song Standing, there's only one of them That could potentially come out as the best Outcast song, potentially. So I think my opinion on this will change Because I think as we go Like as we go through this exercise, especially with albums like A.T.L.E.N. Or Quem and I, I could make the argument that maybe

the records that we're going to choose off that aren't as big as these records. But in my heart, I'm just like, God damn. Like the rapping and how it makes me feel. Yeah. So. And represent what Outcast was the majority of their career, right? You know, like the first three records feel like a part of something Stankonia feels kind of

its own, you know, where so if you pick a album, you pick a song from A.T. Alians or Quimini, maybe it's more representative of them as a duo than something on Stankodia. I think bombs over Baghdad is, like Cole, it's currently my clubhouse leader for the winner of this entire series. I, here's the thing. We can't all agree, though. Because I agree. Because here's the thing. I was like, I'm here to be like, bro, I don't know what these motherfuckers are on.

But bombs over Baghdad is like in, like, a top five rap songs. Like, you're just like, what are the best rap songs? I'm going to be like, bombs are bad. I got to be in there. And if you were just like, what are the best songs of like just all time? 21st century. I'm like, fucking bombs over Baghdad. But then if you're just like, but what about Ms. Jackson? I'm like, well, Ms. Jackson's just a better song.

Like, here's the thing. Miss Jackson to me is a better song, but bombs over Baghdad to me still sounds like the future. And I think I wait songs that sound like nothing else. Like, there have been other songs to me that have hit that same feeling as Ms. Jackson. I don't know if there's been another rap song that sounds like as good as Bombs over Baddad or makes me feel the way bombs over Baghdad makes me feel. Can I make another prediction? There's a decent chance that this debate right here is being had again in the finale.

Yeah, let's not step on it too much. But here's the thing. There are other songs of their other albums where I'm just like, hey, fuck all the pop shuling. Maybe that's the challenge of season is to make a case for some of these songs that maybe are a little bit closer to our hearts on these less popular albums, I guess. You know, I think that's a good challenge

because I would like it to be interesting to the very end. And I think the catalog's too good to just try to feel like this is going to be the winner no matter what. It could end up being that, but I think their catalogs

too strong to just... Oh, I'll be arguing. Like, because here's the thing. I, as someone who threw this exercise, ATLians was not my number one album before this. Yeah.

I don't know, because they were so young when they made that one. I'll be honest, I don't know what it is about being a dude. I was like, yo, ATEleans. What?

Hell fucking get it. Like, let's go. That's a good. So we're going to do that one next, but we got to each choose our last song standing of this episode. So you get to go first. You know what? I'm going to be a little fucking snake about it because

we're always like, if people are just like, oh, they need to know my taste. I'm picking bombs over the Baghdad. The half point. See the story? Because here's the thing. I'm going to argue later this season about why Ms. Jackson is so fucking good. Like these songs, it's like one, it is like one A and it's not even one B.

It's just like, it's just they are both like one and A. They're just tied to me. But if we're just going with my heart, the one that's still, like if you play, we're going to play it after we end this. I'm going fucking bombs over Baghdad because you're going to be forced to pick Miss Jackson. I'm happy with it. I'm happy with Ms. Jackson. I'll take it. Like we made the case for it.

It's right up there with Bob. I'm perfectly fine. with Ms. Jackson on my list. All right, so guys, if you've listened to our Kendrick season and our Frank season, you know that the fans get a vote. So if you're like, they didn't prick so fresh and so clean, they didn't pick we lotties hoes? How dare you?

Well, at the end of the season, you're going to get to vote on one that we're going to take into the final round. But we're letting our coach for this season, the old man himself, pick one for the final show. And I think... in honor of our first episode, and probably as we go through all this, of the songs we didn't pick, which one is swirling around your mind is, like, going to be one of the ones that you're

just like, oh, we have to put this on the list. So just to be clear, I get one song through the entire season. So if I pick a song off Stanconia that has to go into the final round that you guys didn't pick, that's it. I'm done for the season. Yeah, but I'm not asking you to pick your song now. Just what is in contention on Stankonia. All clear.

You guys picked the two right songs on this. I know that's the, the funny thing is like, we talked about how this album is so up and down, but then, like, made two of their best songs. I mean, three. So Fresh, So Clean is still one of their best songs. Sure.

I have a lot of love for Red Velvet. I have a lot of love for Spaghetti Junction, but, like, I don't, neither of those songs are going to win. So it's like, I don't, I mean, I just kind of walk away from this one feeling like you guys pick the two best songs. I mean, humble mumble is great, but I'm not picking humble mumble, right?

Like, that's not going to make his way to them here. You're not trying to take a damn hose cheesecake factory. Look, I get a lot of friends that love, we love these hoes. Shout out to Jeff Weiss and Paul. They always doing too much, though. If y'all listen to this, they probably won't. Y'all always doing too much, though. And, like, we love these holes.

I love it. Also, if I've learned anything through listening throughout Alcass's discography, like one after the other, big boys hilarious. always just like the things that piss him off. It's like, no more hos chokers. And I'm just like, like, was the choker epidemic in the 2000s? It was more than 90s, which is actually funny. I think Red Velvet is like my dark horse for like that's in like my top 20 favorite

outcast songs ever. But like it's not in the top five. You know, it's not getting there. So what you're basically saying is stankone, your pick for the season probably not going. It's probably not coming off Sangonia. I mean, it could be, but it would be one of the two that you guys picked. Oh, my pick for my coaches challenge. Yeah.

Oh, it's not coming off stank on you. It's 100%. Damn. All right. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Kevin. Our beautiful audio engineer. Thanks, Justin, of course.

Thanks, bureaucratic for the theme music. You guys, tell us if we got it wrong. What have we got right? Come out of us on social media. I'm at Dysak Podcast. Charles is at Charles X Holmes. Next week. What are we getting into?

Oh, next week. I'm so excited. ATLians, we're going on that elevator, baby. All right. Guys, we're back. If you've listened to last longstanding, you know we love to do cultural exchanges. That's when, you know,

Cole and I come from different worlds. We were having a long talk today. Cole, born and bright in Sacramento, you know, slang the shoddies out there, settled down very, very early, has a beautiful family. Me. fuck boy to generate running the streets of fucking L.A.

In previous seasons, I've shared my love of what, of R&B. R&B mostly, yeah. You've shared your love of classical music. For cultural exchange, we, if people, you should go listen to it. When Kendrick Lamar and Drake basically destroyed most of the year, Kendrick emerged victorious. We learned something very, very special about. Cole.

Okay. You have never watched or known about Mr. Nathan Fielder, which is very, very funny because you have Nathan Fielder energy. Okay. I don't know what that beats because I don't watch it. Oh, it is, that is, it is this, like, supreme compliment. I love Nathan Fielder. So, for my first cultural exchange, I'm like, I'm asking you.

So, hey, for anyone that doesn't know Nathan Fielder, maybe just give him a quick, uh, summary. All right. So Nathan Fielder is a comedian. And the best way I would describe his comedy is cringe, almost performance art. I kind of like got into him a little bit weird. He had a show on Comedy Central, Nathan for you. And the essential thing about Nathan for you is he would go to these businesses and he would be like, oh, I have an idea on how to turn your ice cream store around.

One of the episodes he's like, we're going to make shit ice cream where it's shit flavored. Everybody's going to want to line up to take a lick of shit ice cream. Okay. That's one of the things. So I've given you for your task one of my favorite episodes from season one. I believe it's season one episode four, gas station caricature artist. The whole thing about Nathan for you is that like he doesn't break. Same thing with like the rehearsal.

What's his other show that I loved? But it was the curse. The curse. Yeah. The rehearsal is the best, though. But we're starting you with Nathan for you. Episode 4, gas station caricature artist. You're going to come back.

Just tell me what you're saying. What's the era of the show? Rended air. So this episode came out on March 21st, 2003. So this was like... 2013. 2013. Sorry.

March 21st, 2013. All, like, this style of comedy, he's very much in the 2010s era. Okay. This is a classic. I think you'll love it. If you honestly, maybe watch, if there is an episode that he should watch before this off season one, maybe start with episode one, yogurt shop, pizzeria.

Probably. I also think, like, Cole, you're in L.A. You're hanging out right now. You're in your hotel room. You might not have anything to do tonight. Try maybe episode one, but also something like Smokers Aloud, which I think is kind of like the perfect, this is this crazy idea that's very high level

and they somehow pulled it off and I think like getting a sense of the things he does like that will set you up for the very strange shit that happens in the episode that Charles wants to. Smokers Aloud is season three. It is season three, episode five. All right. So what is your cultural exchange?

All right, so you asked me what my most embarrassing phase of music was because I've come on here giving you like abstract classical avant-garde shit, trying to look good, trying to look smart. But you asked me that question, which is a great question. So before I tell you your assignment for this episode, here's my kind of umbrella thesis for this segment of the show this season. I'm going to take you, okay, do you have a forever band,

like a band that you're going to die on the hill? It's the band that you're going to tell your grandkids about and they're going to think you're old, but you're going to just, it doesn't matter. You just love them that much. Fallboy. Fall boy is the greatest. American rock bands me. Okay.

Well, why did you laugh? Why'd you laugh? No comment. Great. I look beautiful. Okay. So my Forever band is Radiohead. People know this. Not as good as Fallout Boy, we continue. Okay. But I'm going to, so, but I didn't always like Radiohead. Like, infamously, I disliked them for a long time. But I'm going to take you on my journey to finding my Forever band, which goes through many phases of essentially white, pop, rock, punk music.

to find my forever band of Radiohead. I'm going to start you out with Blink 182. Are you familiar? You're familiar of Blink 182, but have you ever really listened to Blink 182? So here's the thing. There is a, there are a collection of rock artists

that I know, because obviously I was watching, like, MTV, VH1, Fused. Do you remember the, I do, yeah, Fused? Yeah. So I've listened to all of these musicians.

I don't know if I've ever, done like a Blink 182 like deep, deep dive. So I know a lot of their music, but there's just a lot of it where I'm just like, I was never like Ryan, you know I at Guzman, you listen to Eminem and your call with your old lady. That's how I feel about like a lot of white music where I'm just like, I wasn't, I wasn't bumping this in the whip. I was just in a Tony Braxton. I was just sitting in a Cisco. Okay. So I was obsessed with Blink 182 in, it's got to be sophomore year of high school. I'm going to try to find a picture of you before our next recording of me,

dressed exactly like Tom DeLong, the guitar player for Blakeway to, like long dicky cutoff shorts, famous for Stars and Strap shirt, stupid long, dumb, dyed hair. I'm going to give you that as a gift. So I was obsessed, like anything that I do, I just do it way too much. And I literally would play all these songs on my guitar, bass, drums. I would just knew everything about this band. But I'm going to take, I'm going to give you the album that came out just months after, after stankonia actually,

which is take off your pants and jacket. This was the album after Enema of the State that you probably know all the small things, all the hits. All the big ones were on Enema of the State. So this was the first album I experienced from Blink in real time. This is the album to Justin's story earlier

that I went to Tower Records at midnight the night it came out to buy the record and listen to it at midnight. So I'm giving you take off your pants and jacket, report back what you think, and then we'll continue the journey to my forever band in Radiohead. Oh, hell yeah. Let's go.