Dissect - To Pimp A Butterfly | LAST SONG STANDING (E6)

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

These takes ain't freeeeee! In the penultimate episode of Last Song Standing Season 1, the LSS Boyz finally take on what some consider to be Kendrick Lamar's magnum opus, To Pimp A Butterfly. While this is Cole's favorite album of all time, Charles is...not as impressed. Cast your vote in the poll below and follow the LSS playlist, updated weekly. You can also cast your vote for the listener's song pick to make it into the royal rumble season finale. Follow @dissectpodcast on Twitter or Instagram for instructions. LAST SONG STANDING is a new show from Dissect and The Ringer. Each season focuses on one artist in attempt to determine their greatest song of all time by debating through their ENTIRE catalog. Hosts: Cole Cuchna & Charles Holmes Producer: Justin Sayles Audio Production: Kevin Pooler Theme Music: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome everyone to Last Song Standing, a show about your favorite artist's greatest song of all time. I'm Cole Kushner. And I'm Charles Holmes. And in this first season of Last Song Standing, we've been going to war for Kendrick Lamar. Cole and I have battled our way through his entire discography in an effort to decide what's the greatest Kendrick song of all time. And after a small vacation, the L-Double S boys are finally back. But I have to ask Cole. A very important question.

Did you miss squabbling about Kendrick with me? I did. I have the biggest smile on my face. I miss fighting with you. I miss talking about Kendrick. I'm so glad to be back. How was the vacation? Vacation was great.

I didn't listen to any music, which was just like, wow. Okay. It was beautiful, but I have something else important, especially for this show. Do you know what time it is? Currently 1007. No.

These takes ain't free. You're looking at it. Are you ready to get into this? This is our final, ultimate episode. How are you feeling, bud? This has been, we've been building to this episode for a while. We've been pumping it up. I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be terrible and beautiful all at once.

Not terrible, contentious. It'll be entertaining. I'm excited that we got a break because I needed a mentally prepare to go to war for you. Maybe Kevin, can you give us some, like, some like, epic music, some like rocky shit, like get us pumped up for this episode. A nice war theme. Yeah. Before we get into the album that is going to rock, you know, our relationship to its foundations,

can you please remind the listeners what songs we've picked so far? Yeah, so we are five episodes in. We got eight songs each, I think. So episode one, we did Good Kid Mad City. We both agreed on Mad City. I think we have some regrets on that, but can't go back. Episode 2, Mr. Morale, I picked Mother I Sober. You picked Father Time.

For Damn, you picked DNA. I picked Fear. For Section 80, I picked Rigamortis. You picked ADHD. In our last episode, which was mixtapes, Lucy's, and Features. I picked Ignorance's Bliss, cartoons and serial, and nostalgia. You picked Untitled O2, The Heart Part 3, and Control. who these are these are these are these are good lists these are good lists we but i think we both have good lists

i'm just worried i'll be honest we have one more episode after this and i just i haven't even started thinking about how we're going to whittle this down i just don't want to think about it i know i think there's like well we won't spoil it i think there's some obvious ones we can kind of just pluck off um right off the bat but once we get into the nitty gritty of like like fear going up against DNA or like Mad City going up again. I mean, it's just going to be a battle. It's going to be rough. But let's get into the meat and potatoes, all right?

Like I said, this is our Penn Ultimate episode. We've been through the Kendrick trenches, but in many ways, it's all been leading to this moment. It's finally time for the L-Double S boys to pick the best song off of to Pimp a Butterfly. Go be all right.

The greatest album of all time. No, stop, stop, stop. Actually, you know what? You need to stop because you texted me and I'm going to blow your spot up. You were having doubts. You said to me in the text, you don't think Tipinpo Butterfly's

is a greatest album anymore. Okay, I think we should probably, let me save that for the end of the episode. Let's get through the episode and then we'll talk about where it ranks because I'm definitely torn about my, you're going to hear my personal connection to this album, which I don't think you know about,

and it's going to probably click for you why I'm so attached to this album. But if I'm putting on my journalistic hat, my objective hat, it's tougher than me just saying this is his best album because it's my favorite. So I try to be objective, but personally,

this is my, it might be my favorite album of all time. All right, so we will get back to that. But for those that have forgotten or are listening for this first time, rules of L-D-S pretty simple. Each episode, we cover one album and are forced to crown the last song standing. That means we can choose one song off each album, the one we think is better than the rest. Then at the end of the season, we'll have a Royal Rumble finale, where we're going to bring the best songs we've chosen from each album and duke it out until we both can agree on what is the single greatest Kendra mar song of all time.

But also, we have a little housekeeping for y'all. Next week is the season finale. So, later in the week, we're putting up a poll because we've listened to you a lot of y'all. all have gotten very upset with us for either not talking about your favorite song or not picking your favorite song. So we want the listeners to vote for one song that they think should go into the final round. Guys, vote for money trees, please. All right? So that is going to be up on all of the socials. And you could stop yelling at us because we are giving the listeners a vote. Democracy. It's beautiful, right, Cole? Yeah, I'm really excited to see. I think we know

probably the top choices for what the listeners are going to pick. I think it's going to be either sing about me or money trees. Oh, I mean, this might be a little contentious of an episode. Yeah, definitely cast your vote if you're pissed at us for not picking your favorite song. Yo, and with all that housekeeping out of the way, it's finally time. Let's get into to Pimble Butterfly after we take a short, short break. All right, we are back. And guys, it's time to talk about the album of honestly, the one that we've been leading to for so, so long.

To Pimble Butterfly, which was released on March 15th, 2015, it's kids. Kendrick's third studio album and arguably his most critically acclaimed body of work, features George Clinton, Thundercat, Rhapsody, Snoop Dog, produced five singles. I, The Black or the Berry, King Cunta, All Right, and these walls. It debuted at number one on the Billboard 200 and sold 363,000 album equivalent. Wow. It's a good number. It's a good number.

It's a wild number. Looking back on it, this being his sophomore album, moving that many units for a project that is very dense and rich and not as poppy, probably as Good Kid Mad City is, even if Good Kid, Mad City is not a pop album. Wild. But before we kind of get into, like, maybe some of our disagreements about this project, can you walk the listeners through the concepts and themes of Butterfly? Ooh, all right. I'm going to try, because Kendrick is doing a lot on this album. But I'm going to try to get it under two minutes. Charles cut me off. if I'm going too long.

But so to Pimba Butterfly essentially is a continuation of Good Kid Mad City. It's what happens when the Good Kid finally escapes the Mad City. Kendrick, you know, ends that album crowning himself King Kendrick. He meets up with Dre. He gets a record deal. And it kind of leads to this new life outside of Compton where he has money and influence. And he's kind of feeling on top of the world as a successful rapper. And but the kind of the main conflict of the album or one of the main conflicts of the

album is that his talents are being pimped and exploited by what he kind of formulates as Uncle Sam, the album's villain, which is kind of this stand-in for America's history of systemic oppression and exploitation. And that's where the title kind of to pimp a butterfly comes from, the contrast of pimp and butterfly and exploitation. And so we hear this dynamic play out in the first act of the album. On songs like King Cunta, we hear like Kendrick feeling empowered and feeling like a king but actually being controlled by like a slave, which is where the contrast of the title, King Cunta comes from. Then we hear in the song, like, these walls, how Kendrick is misusing his influence and

getting revenge on the man who killed his friend Dave by having sex with his girl while he's still in prison. So essentially, he's like misusing his new influence. Instead of helping his people out, he's actually working to separate them even more. He's being self-using your influence. Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, he's being selfish. He's chasing sex, money, and revenge.

And this is, in the context of the album, this is, like, framed as the quote-unquote caterpillar mentality and the not fully evolved mentality. But in the second act of the album, we hear how this mentality ultimately leaves Kendrick unhappy. We hear most kind of potently on the song, You. He's suffering heavily from survivors' guilt. He's hearing about how his friends back in Compton are still struggling, some of them even getting killed.

while he's living it up on tour and he's very conflicted about this. And it's not until he takes a pivotal trip to South Africa, which we hear midway through the album, but also happened in real life. That really inspired the entire album was this trip to South Africa, his first trip to Africa. And he realizes there after visiting Nelson Mandela's jail sale and other experiences there that he should be using his influence to unite his people, not divide them. And so we hear this kind of new revelation play out in the third, third act of the album, which where we get songs like complexion, you ain't got a lie to kick it, Black or the Berry, which all have very clear messages and more positive messages. And this all

culminates to the song I, which is on this album, kind of like a skit slash song, where Kendrick is now back in Compton, not to gloat like he did on King Kunta, but now to unite his people. We hear literally a fight breaks out in the crowd when he's performing and he separates it. It's kind of this metaphoric, symbolic act of him uniting his people instead of dividing them. And then it kind of culminates into the final song, Moral Man, which is like this epilogue. And we realize that this poem that's been recited throughout the album is actually being read to Tupac. The two have kind of this metaphysical conversation about leadership. And then Kendrick reads him another poem about a caterpillar transforming into a butterfly.

And this is, of course, symbolic of Kendrick's own transformation from. this selfish celebrity being pimped to a selfless leader who unites and frees this community. Beautiful. Honestly, I could tell. I could tell your love for this album, but I really want to know. Cole, you have a very important relationship with this project that I probably don't share, but I'm very interested in hearing why it means so much to my best bud. Yeah, right. Okay, so let me paint the scene for you. this album comes out March 15th, 2015. My first daughter was born the day before, March 14th, 2015. Your own caterpillar.

My very own caterpillar. And so I didn't listen to it on the day it came out. I listened to it the day after it came out when I came home from the hospital. And so I listened to this album for the first time with headphones on while holding my newborn daughter and she woke up super early of course like it was so literally i'm in the nursery there's the sunrise coming out behind me and out the window i'm holding my new and born daughter and listening to this album for the first time so that gives you kind of like the very personal experience that i had and then just the album like blew me away i was so impressed with just the risk that kendrick took i was impressed by

what he was saying. It just stuck with me. And then this is another reason why I'm so connected to the album, because Tabimba Butterfly is actually what inspired the creation of Dysect. So I was listening to this album over and over and over. And I was like, okay, Kendrick is really saying something. This has like novel-like complexity. There's all these storylines, these characters, these messages,

these skits, this culmination with Tupac, all this stuff going on. I was like, there is no way I'm really going to fully understand or get close to understanding what Kendrick is really trying to do on this album, what he's trying to say. If I don't really take the time and like sit with it, study it, write it like how I used to in college when I would study composers like Beethoven and stuff. So that, that, just that like curiosity about what he was trying to say and me wanted to go deeper was actually what inspired dissect. And that's how, that's how I created the show around this album. And then, so this album changed my life quite literally, because

dissect change my life but also just the message that kentjuk was saying like it's so it's so there's so as i'm kind of spilling this out to you there's so many layers to my connection with this album that it's like i don't share that with any other album that i've you know i've ever listened to like all these different things that are kind of ingrained into my experience of this album so that's why it's so kind of special to me it changed my life and literally changed my life in more ways than one so and i have like it's like it's not only changed my life but then have that first experience with my daughter in my arms. It's just like, does that give you like a little bit more understanding of why I'm so connected

to the album? That's beautiful, Cole. That's beautiful. I love this. Let's get to Damn That's Wild. It's a little bit of trivia that we do every single episode. Cole, I have one for you that is near and dear to my heart, and I don't think you're going to guess it.

Can I go? Yeah, let's go. All right. What classic anime inspired Thundercat and Soundwave on King Kunta? I feel like I should know this, but I don't. And I don't know any anime references. I can't even guess. Ooh, all right.

They were watching Fist of the North Star, which is like just a classic, classic Shonen battle manga. So, yeah, it is very funny to think about Fist of the North Star playing in the background as like people like Thundercat and Soundwave and all of these people are making what is a very worldly record because like that's Japanese anime manga. And it's, this of the North Star is like a very violent type of like manga anime, very foundational. So it's just very, very funny to think of that be one of the things that at least the producers are watching. But yo, do you have, do you have one for me? Okay, yeah, I got one. That was a good one, by the way. I didn't know you were going to teach me something about this album.

Hey, come on, man. I can't care, bro. Okay, so in the CD booklet for the album, there's Braille letterings, which according to Kendrick reveals the full title of the album. Do you know what this title is? What's it saying in Braille in the CD booklet?

I have no idea. I do see, I prepared. I do know what the previous title before Tipa Butterfly was. I don't know what the full. What's the full one in Braille? Okay, it's kind of funny. This is like, I feel bad even admitting this

because it's going to be like bait for you. But so complex, commissioned a braille translator to figure this out. And if you translate it word for word, what it says, it says, a Kendrick by letter blank Lamar, which they fucked up. Essentially, it's supposed to be a blank letter by Kendrick Lamar, but it's fucked up and they fucked up the braille. Yeah. No, I love that. See, that's what Headass where he gets to you. That's good. That's a good one. I knew you're going to like that one. so good. All right. My second one, this one is

really easy. Okay. Which celebrity released Black of the Berry on Twitter? Oh, fuck. This is an easy one call. I know. It was, uh, I, I used to know this, but I forgot. All right. I'll give you one hit. All right. At the time,

this was one of the biggest shows on Fox. I don't know. You got to just. Taraji P. Henson. I'm really okay. You really got me. You got me. He stumped me twice. All right. What's your second one? I have one more after this. Give me your second one. Okay, so I'm probably not going to get this one, but I love it. What iconic musicians final album recorded while battling cancer and then dying shortly after recording was inspired by To Pimp a Butterfly. Iconic, like iconic 70s, 80s musician lifelong iconic. I don't even know. Like this is actually really good. I have no idea. I've never right about this.

So have you heard David Bowie's Black Star? Yes. Okay, so that's the album. That was inspired by... Oh shit. I did know this. I read it at the time. I read it on a blog at this time.

Damn, I did know that. I haven't thought about that in a while. If anyone out there has not heard David Bowie's Black Star, it is amazing. Even if you don't like David Bowie or you don't think... Listen to the album is so good. Last one I have. This is super easy. Who was the beat for All Right originally for?

Oh, yeah. Fabulous. I think I told you that. I think I told you that in our earlier episode. I'm sorry, there's no way I'm listening to Fabulous Radb. Like, no, no shots at that. But like, come on, bro. No, I'm not.

It's not, let's just say it's not as good as Kendrick's version. I think, I think that's damn. That's wild for this episode. We got some pretty good ones in there. I never thought I would stump coal twice. I'd never thought it would happen. Yeah, we should probably say the other fun fact. I'll probably get to it in one of my hotter cold takes,

but it's like the trivia answer. What is the original title for? To Pimba Butterfly. To Pimpa Caterpillar. Yeah. To Pimpa Butterfly is so much better. But you know why it was going to be to Pimpa Caterpillar, right? So I read that Anna Wise was on tour and Kendrick texted her and was just like, do you have any

like names for the album? And she went into a bookstore and she had been thinking of butterflies, but she's like, I'm not going to text him something about Butterfly. So let me go to this like bookstore and try to find inspiration. and she went into the metaphysical section and she found a book with butterfly in the title and she took a photo of it, sent it to Kendrick, and that might be partially one of the reasons

why he swapped the name. Because he thought that butterfly, the juxtaposition between butterfly and Pimp was way more beautiful than Pimp and Caterpillar, which like Pimp and Caterpillar both kind of, not negative connotations, but a butterfly is beautiful and a caterpillar, it's on his way to be, you know? Yeah, so, well, okay, so the reason why it was called Tipimba Caterpillar is because the acronym is Tupac.

Oh, I've read that. Oh, man, I'm so, I'm so, I'm so butterfly is such a better title. It is a better title, but it's a way better title. The Tupac thing's cool. Like, it's very cool. So is it too early to go into a hotter cold take here? No, it's not. Okay, maybe it's more of an ISO, but, um, so.

as everyone knows, this album kind of culminates into Kendrick having a conversation with the spirit of Tupac. I wanted to point out, so that's like the obvious Tupac reference. But let me just give you a like bullet speed rundown of how many times Kendrick references Tupac on Tumpin Bupu Butterfly. You ready for this? Because it's, no. Did you count this yourself, Cole? I did. This is a, my sweet boy. What's happening? Go play with your children. All right. Tell me.

I'm so excited. Okay, this comes out of season one I dissect, though, because I did all that work. How long did it take you? Before you tell me, how long did it take you to count? Well, I mean, it took me like six months to make that season. So I just added up all the nuggets that I found throughout the season and then made a list. Got it. Okay.

So let's put it in context, though. Kendrick sees Tupac when he's like eight or seven or eight filming California love with Dr. Drey and Compton. It's this, you know,

pivotal memory that he has, this first connection with Tupac. We also have to remember. Kendrick claims to Tupac visited him in a dream and told him not to let his music die. You also have to remember that Kendrick's birthday is the day after Tupac's.

Tupac was born June 16th. Kendrick was born June 17th. We also have to remember Tipa Butterfly was released. one day after the 20th anniversary of Me Against the World by Tupac. So there's all these next, that's one day after Kendrick is the next, the successor of the one. So there's all these cool symbolism. We have to remember to Pippa Caterpillar was the original title.

So on four free, you're already, you're already disgusted. Okay, on four free, the jazzy spoken word thing was very likely inspired by a song by Tupac called Life is a Traffic Jam. If you go listen to that, it sounds very much like for free. King Kunta, he says, made it past 25. Tupac died at 25. On the song, You, he says, loving you is complicated, which references the Tupac poem, love is just complicated. On all right, he says, Lord Knows in the Tupac voice, referencing the song name by Tupac, Lord Knows. On For Sale, he says, if you're scared, go to church, which is first heard, that phrase is first heard on Tupac's, rather be your N-word. On hood politics, he says 50 N-word salute, which is the tattoo of Tupac, or the tattoo that Tupac has on his six-pack.

Rhapsody name drops Tupac on complexion, the black or the berry, the song title, and that phrase is used in Keep Your Head Up. It's the very first line of that song. You ain't got a lie to kick it, the song. Tupac has a song called Lie to Kick It. On I, Kendrick redefines the N-word and the very simple. way to how Pock did it, redefines it on words of wisdom. A mortal man, obviously, is the big Tupac revelation of the album. And then plus all the fun facts I gave you at the beginning.

So those are all the ones I've counted. Are you bored? You want to know what I thought, honestly, while you're saying that? You know how we always get on Drake for having like this creepy obsession with Aaliyah? I'm starting to think Kendrick's obsession with Tupac is just as creepy. Oh, yeah, it's a little. I mean, I think it's cool because it's all these, like, very subtle things that you only know if you're, like, really looking into it that then culminate into Tupac actually appearing in front of them.

Like, that's kind of cool thematically. But, yeah, it's kind of creepy. It's, it's, it's one hair. Like, maybe if he had like one or two less references, I wouldn't be upset, but that many references is too much. It's a little creepy. I probably miss them, too. So, yeah, with that, with that out of the way, you think we're ready to get into some nominations? I'm so ready. I'm so curious. You said, okay, I've been struggling with my picks for like two weeks. And I still actually have, I have five on my list. I'm going to just kind of like free ball it here. But you said you picked yours in 30 seconds. Like what? Yeah. It was pretty easy. I almost changed one early this morning and I was like, fuck it. I don't care. Like I'm just like. It's very easy for me to know which songs on to Pimp a Butterfly I like. So yeah, it takes 30 seconds, man. All right. All right. I want you to go first.

All right, so remember the goal of each episode of Last Song Standing is for Cole and I to determine the single best song from a Kendrick album. The songs we select over the course of the season will duke it out in our season finale, which is next week, where we will be forced to agree on the last song standing, the single best song by Kendrick Lamar. I have first pick. I think this one is going to piss you off, Cole. I think it really is. But I love this song when it dropped. It's needed. Where it sits in the album, it's desperately needed.

My number one nomination is Hood Politics. I've been named one since day one, you niggas, boo-bo. Your own boy, you black that you're from, boo-bo. Little hoes you went to school with. Oh, my God. What? What? You don't like Hood Politics? Of course it is.

Of course it is. No, fuck you, Cole. What's wrong with Hood Politics? Tell me right now. It's a great song, but it's so fucking Charles. It's so, like, the hip-hop, obvious, like, it's like the least experimental song. It's the most like, yeah, it's just the most straightforward hip-up song. So it's just so you.

And you want to know what I have to say to that call? What? Abin'ay wants to stay one. You're in Boo Boo! I love Hood Politics. Produced my Thundercat sound wave and Tabe Beast. I think Hood Politics is actually a very deceptive song. And what I mean by that is that you have to think about where Hood Politics sits in the album,

where you are coming off of, in my opinion, a very, very, very, uh, it's a hard stretch of the album because you go, I think I love Wesley's theory for freaking kunta. I think that's very like, when I heard it first, I was like,

damn, we're here. Yeah. Going from institutionalize these walls, you, brief respite on all right. And then for sale interlude and mama is a lot. Like that was the point when I got to that point in my re-listen.

I was like, I forgot just how dense that run of the project is. So when hood politics comes, I think it has some levity to it, but also, I think, structurally what it's doing in the album is that you think it's, you think, like Cole thinks, that, oh, man, it's the hip-hop track. It's the less experimental track. Whoop-ty-whoop-wop-ty-wop-wop-tie-wop. It's not. I think for all of its posturing and details of this violent world, it's Kendrick.

coming back to this realization that he fleshes out later in the album that's all bullshit that whole that whole hook where he's talking about this is boo-boo and that is boo-boo he's coming back to compton and realizing like all this shit that we've been like that i've been upholding all of that gang-banging stuff all of that violence all of this these negative emotions that we're holding on to is bullshit but the way he delivers it it's hard to it's hard to it's hard to see that unless you're reading the lyrics. Yeah. Because you are like, oh, no, this is just like the typical,

um, this is just the typical rah, rah, rah rap song. And that's actually why I think hood politics, even to this day, I think really, really works on the album. Because it's Kendrick subverting expectations. Um, and

I have to say this before I keep praising you. When he says, critics want to mention that they miss when hip hop was rap. motherfucker if you did, the killer mic would be platinum. I'm like, here, guys, I was listening to Killer Mike. I love, like, I love some Killer Mike shit. Like, don't get me wrong.

Like, motherfucking can rap, bro. But, like, dog, man, like, come on, don't lie to this. Like, don't lie to us like that, Kendrick. Like, no. No. Killer Mike's not going platinum, bro. Come on, man. I'm actually, like, I'm at a little piss with you, Cole.

Like, you came at my neck. You don't fuck with her politics like that? There's literally not a song on here except for one that I would be, I would be like, Oh, I can't say it. Say it. Oh, you ain't got a lie. It's like, that's not, it's just not a good song. I mean, it's not a great song.

It doesn't, do you like that song? Ain't got a lie to kick it? I, I'm going to tell you, you ain't got a lie. I don't like that song, but you want to know what song I think is actually not, like my least favorite song off this project. Like, I get why it's on there and it's important, but I don't like it. Like, I skipped it almost every single time on my re-listen after listening to it once. Can you guess which one it is?

Is it I? No. I like the album version of I way better than the... Like, I actually like the album version of I a lot. I'll give you two more. Okay. Complexion? I can't stand complexion.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. I can't. I really can't stand complexion. Like, I think it's a beautiful song in terms of, like, what it's trying to get at. Right. I just can't listen to it. It just derails the album for me in the worst way. But let's get back to Hood Politics.

Like, dog, why are you coming at my neck? you're telling me your pimple butterfly listen you're telling me to your pimple butterfly listen you don't jam to this song no I love this I absolutely love this song it just but okay

when you first picked out I was like of course Charles picks this song but this is like I'm going to give you some praise because you know keep this in mind everyone that's coming at Charles's neck online like the way that you just explain what Hood politics does within the album

like tells me everything I need know about your smarts like you really understand so however hot your takes are like you really get it and like you just explain its function in the album like perfectly so i'm very impressed with the explanation of it i wasn't quite sure like where you how you saw it how it fit into the album but like again very very good um so like that so great pick i actually love that you pick this song and i love that you picked it for probably not the reason that i first thought you picked it which is like Yeah, because it is the more, like, aggressive hip hop track on the, on the project. Also, you have to think about what it does, too, because it's followed by how much a dollar cost.

Yeah. So even Kendrick's delivering this message where he's starting to come to this realization that, like, your homeboy, your block that you're with, boo boo, little hoes you went to school with, boo boo. He's still coming through with this very arrogant air about him. and then on how much dollar cost, that bubble bursts. You know what I mean? And it's like, does how much a dollar costs work in the album?

If it's not juxtaposed with, when hood politics hits your ear, you're still in that mode where you think it's King Kunta, you think it's Kendrick still, acting like he's the best. But it's the beginning of the facade starting to slowly crumble.

And then once you get to how much a dollar cost, that shit completely is like, obliterated. And that's why I think it's deceptibly a very, very good song, especially where it hits on. No, exactly. And that's what I love about this album. It's like, because it's, of course, you get the transformation, right? Like, that's the big meta view of the album. It's like Kendrick goes from Caterpillar to Butterfly. And what's really hard in music to do, I think, on these narrative type of projects is show the in-between stages. Yeah. So we get like that first run of songs that you pointed out. the first three tracks where Kendrick's really like embodying that selfish, very clearly embodying that selfish mentality. This dick ain't free? Yeah.

Then to juxtapose that with like the transformative version of yourself, like you can make those two kinds of songs very easily, but what's really hard is to give you the in-between where you're like kind of starting to realize but you're not fully there yet, you're showing signs of breakthrough, but you're still kind of trapped in your old mentality. And like the way that Kendrick in the middle of the out, album is able to very articulately express that kind of very hard to articulate mindset of the in-between transformation stage is like one of the reasons I really love this album as a as a narrative as a story because again the easy thing to do is just to show yourself before and after and not in

between so again you nailed exactly what its function is on the album narratively and I even think the intro when when the guy's like don't tell me you got you on they got you on that some weirdo rap shit. It's like you think about a song like I, which the reception to I, like a song where it's like, I love myself, was deeply like, wise Kendrick on this weirdo rap shit. You think of the reception to King Kunta where it was just kind of like, I don't know, like weird. Yeah.

Hood politics is so funny because it's Kendrick doing what he always does in terms of like sonically. It sounds, this sounds way more like. a good kid mad city track so it's kind of funny that like on the track that sounds sonically more like good kid mad city he's starting to get into the weirdo rap shit of like once i happens and the fight breaks out on i you're like oh no that's why he has the intro on this because he knows when he goes home to compton people are going to be like dog you went to south africa and now you think you're better than us you know what i mean no exactly exactly yeah you you're nailing it

i've read you got i'm i'm giving you gold stars left and right here man i thought I thought you were going to come in just shitting on this album and you're just really showing. You're really showing that you understand this album to a very detailed level. So what's your number one pick? I honestly, I think I can guess. Okay. Oh, yeah, I guess. I think I can guess your three.

Like, I know which three you're going to pick. Okay, give me, what do you think my top pick is? I think you was probably your top pick. You fucker did. Right. You're right. I knew it. I fucking knew it.

Yo, you is literally cold cushioned a catnip. Like, so, like, dog, you have to go into you. Like, going to you because I predict it. I want to, I want to know. Okay, yeah, I'm so predictable. I feel great about myself here. But yeah, I mean, it is like everything I love in music. It encapsulates everything I want from an artist, from what I want from a song.

it's beautiful. I mean, it's tragic but beautiful. It's like, to me, it's like you can point to a song like you and it's like, here is why human beings make music. Like here is, here is like things that we can only express in art in a way that like, that is like universally understood. Like this is why we create art. Because you is just like, it is one of the most honest songs I think that just exists. like it's so goddamn honest and like heartbreaking and vulnerable and i mean there's a lot of songs like that but the way he executes it in a way that you feel every single time that you listen to it it's like you know the way that i started to whittle down my picks for this album because i had like 10 to start with was just like okay what are the songs that only kendrick lamar can make and i think you

is one of those songs it's people could you know there's some people that could rap to these beats of course but like the way that he does it especially that second half when he comes in with that just that voice it's just so like it's everything that i want music like i said a little big backstory about it is um so the genesis of this song comes he was on tour with connie west uh during the yeez's tour which side note okay you would think my dream concert in life well it quite literally is seeing kendry kamar and conier west especially conier west ys yis which is a is my favorite Kanye West album. In the same tour would be like my dream concert, right? I went to go see the Yeezas tour. There was traffic. I walked in literally as Kendrick Amar

was delivering his final 30 seconds of his set. Wait, are we twins, dude? What? Do you understand that I went to the Yeez-Sah tour as well? And like, not on purpose. Like, I'm a Kendrick fan. I think I, too, only saw, like, the last, like, minute of Kendrick's performance.

It is like one of my top regrets that I didn't plan that better because to see them in the same concert, it was like amazing. Anyways. I don't know if the Uyza store was transformational for you, but I was literally like, this is like why I, like, this is before like Connie was very problematic. But it was like one of the moments in my life where I'm like, this is what I wanted to do with my time on earth. Damn. That's really cool to hear because I had, I mean, I was already deeply ingrained at that point, but that was just like, Wow. That was... I think what I love about this song

is that you, at least the chorus, sums up my feelings about you call a witch. Loving you is complicated. But yeah, just to finish the backstory, so essentially, like, while he was on tour, three of his friends back in Compton were killed. All in the same summer.

And so he, you know, is living it up on tour on one hand and then getting all this tragic news on the other and he said quote nothing as vulnerable as that record i was on tour bus and things happening in my home city and my family i can't do anything about it it's out of my control i'm feeling all these things while i'm on tour uh and then he goes on to say that was one of the hardest songs i had to write and there's some very dark moments in there all my insecurities and selfishness and letdowns that shit is depressing as a motherfucker but it helped though it helps um and so obviously the you know the concept of the song is him look literally looking

in a mirror and like just berating himself pointing out all his flaws um of course we get the cool narrative thing where you and the song i kind of represent this you know transformation of the caterpillar to butterfly all these dualities um and going from loving you as complicated to to to be able to say i love my myself kind of encapsulates the entire journey of the album and then you just get like i have so many lines that i that i highlighted here but just like i don't got any like cool dissections because this song is just like your heart on your sleeve literally but you have just these heartbreaking lines of like you ain't no brother you ain't no disciple you ain't no friend a never a friend never leave compton for profit or leave his best friend little brother you promised you'd

watch him before they shot him. Where was your antennas on the road? Bottles and bitches. You FaceTime one time that's unforgiven. You even FaceTime instead of a hospital visit and then saying like third surgery, they couldn't stop the bleeding for real. Then he died. God himself said you fucking failed. You ain't tried. Like fuck. Hey. It's just it's like it's just so heavy. But it's everything I admire in Kendrick Lamar, the kind of vulnerability and the bravery really of expressing these very, very, very, very deep regrets is just so human and I'll stop there before I cry and yeah it's just everything I said is why I pick it it's only a song that Kendrick Lamar can make it's everything I love in music is encapsulated in this song I actually think what works about you I think in the

totality of Kendrick's career is that it's the rare Kendrick Lamar song that at least how I would describe it. That's devoid of some of the artifice that makes it hard for me to connect to maybe some of his more heady songs, where you is just the emotion. Like when, in interviews, when they talk about creating it, it was just Kendrick pacing back and forth in the booth. Like yelling and crying and coming to terms with the fact that, like, this little brother of his dies. and he's on tour. And that's kind of, how do I put this? You know, when you talk about thematically,

the themes of like Uncle Sam and Lucy and Lucifer and the appeal of being this rapper. And Kendrick sang in interviews, like, it was always my dream to sign on the dotted line, and this is his dream. And the fact that he's not even there to protect this child is so, so heartbreaking. And I think when I mean it doesn't have the artifice,

it's like, at least I don't see it in here. There's not the numerology. There's not these like five beat switches. There's not like this. And it's literally just like one man coming to terms with, was it worth it? Was my dream? Was hip hop?

Is this tour? Are the women and the clothes and the jewelry worth this because he will never get to talk to this young man ever again. And that is so, so heartbreaking. I can't listen to this song. I'll be real with you, Cole. Yeah, yeah. I can't, like, I think I listen, like, I re- listens to this album a lot.

I have to skip this song. Not because it's a bad song, just because it puts me in a place where I'm like, and that's good art where it's just like, there are some movies where I'm like, this movie is so technically perfect, but emotionally it's so fucking raw. I can only do it a couple times. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like he has a lot of like these types. Almost one on every album where it's like it's the sad scene in the movie. And the listen to it over and over is like literally just like watching the sad scene in the movie over and over.

It's like there's only so much you can kind of take of it. And what I love just to point out just my favorite really moment of the song is actually not even when he's rapping. So there's this moment between the first and second verse of the second half of the song. where Kendrick, you can hear him sniffling, like, as if he's crying, which sounding from the stories, it sounds like these are kind of like real tears he was shedding in the booth. And then you have this, like, beautiful wailing saxophone solo that's, like, reaching into these upper kind of areas of its register, just wailing. And it just, there's just that five-second moment of the song that just gets me every single time. again, it's like, could sound theatrical, but I just, on this song at least, it just doesn't.

Kendrick has very theatrical songs, and I feel like we can tell when he's being theatrical for effect, and you doesn't feel like that to me. It really feels like, no, this is just like me really expressing myself in this moment. I do. My last thing on you that I also think is just so beautiful is to Pimp a Butterfly to me is a project that's pure narcissism. And there are moments in this where like Kendrick is battling that. And I think to be an artist, you have to be a narcissist to say, like, I have something to say to the world. And everybody needs to hear it. Takes that level of kind of hubris. But I do like

the fact when he embodies his friend being like, you ain't no leader. And Kendrick even having these thoughts of like, is what I'm doing right? Am I this prophet? Am I this person? And I, person that needs to deliver this message. And obviously, by the end of the album, he says, yes, I am, but you was such an interesting record because he's already starting to think, like, is this what I'm supposed to be? Like, you almost, some of those lines in you almost remind me of a song like Savior, where it's like even back then, Kendrick is still battling with, am I the guy that really needs to deliver my people? And it's just such an interesting thing. to come back to you later, curing it within that context that he's still kind of fighting,

his tendency to feel like he has to save Compton, he has to save black people, which I think is just what great art is made up. Yeah, no, beautiful. So that's nomination one, right? Hood Politics and you. What do you got for number two? Nomination number two. He's going to be difficult, okay?

It's going to be thorny. People would be like, damn, Charles, really? nomination number two is Black or the Barry. I'm the biggest hypocrite in 2015. Once I finish this witness is real conveyses what I mean. They're feeling this way since I was 16. Came to my senses. You never...

Okay, we're going there. We're going there. Because there's a thing. I think that art can be complicated. I think art can say things that we don't agree with politically, morally. I think one thing that we don't give black artists the chance to do enough in their careers is be honest, whether that honesty is ugly or not. And I think Black of the

Berry is a very, very ugly song. Produced by Teres Martin, cause boy Wanda, Zale, Ken Lewis. It's one of the more difficult songs to wrap your head around because it's simultaneously the most urgent to me and also the most underbaked in terms of its politics. But you have this beat and it's so propulsive and it's so dark. And Kendrick's delivering this ferocious performance where it seems like his vocal chords are going to collapse under the stress of how he's rapping. And I love that line when he's like, I'm the biggest hypocrite at 2015. Because if you want to look at any of the like foundational lines of black, like, of this album,

I'm the biggest hypocrite of 2015 tells you kind of so much about who Kendrick is. and I think what is hard to wrap your mind around with Black of the Berry is I think that Kendrick wants to have his cake and eat it too where he wants to be a leader for his people. That's something that he's been constantly saying. He wants to be their savior. Simultaneously, he only wants us to view his art in terms of like, I'm telling my story.

And sometimes I'm like, I don't know if you can have it both ways. if you're going to talk about Uncle Sam, if you're going to talk about the ways that the government disenfranchises black people, the way law enforcement and all these things, you're talking about bigger societal issues. So if we go back into kind of like

what happened during the song, the last line of Black of the Berry was very, very controversial. Let me read it for you. He said, so why did I weep when Trayvon Martin was in the street when gang bang and made me kill nigger blacker than me, hypocrite.

That when I first heard it, I was like, yikes. Screams kind of just like, it hits the ear wrong. I think even in an interview I was reading, Soundwave was like, yo, like, even he was caught off guard. And in Billboard, Kendrick ends up saying in an interview, quote, I wish somebody would look in our neighborhood knowing that it's already a situation mentally where it's fucked up. What happened to Michael Brown should have never happened?

Never. But when we don't have respect for ourselves, how do we expect? them to respect us. It starts from within. Don't start with just a rally. Don't start from looting. It starts from within. That, like, Cole, I don't know if you, like, remember around this time. A lot of people were super upset because Black Lives Matter, the Black Lives Matter movement is happening. People are protesting in the streets. And people were claiming that this is, and it is, it's respectability politics. And I think sometimes the things that I've talked about with Kendrick a lot, that's hard to get your arms around with his music is that his faith is very important to you.

And as a Christian myself, a lot of the Christian faith is about taking responsibilities for your own actions. That's what you learn when you go to church, when you go to Bible school. It's just like your personal sin. Take responsibility for this. Don't be a victim. And I think a lot of people during this time were like, yo, Kendrick, not the time, man. What happened to Michael Brown? What happened to Trayvon Martin?

these are things that have been happening for decades upon decades upon decades. This has nothing to do with being a victim or, you know, things that they could have done differently. This has to do with the way that law enforcement and the government treats. So, Kendrick said, to follow up, I believe this was in New York Times. When I speak, I speak for self-first. This is my experience. I know where I come from. I know the hurt that I've caused families.

These are my demons, which I find so fascinating. And that's why I pick Black or the Berry. because we, I think we forget that Kendrick is always alluding to the violence that he caused in his community. Good Kid Mad City is an entire album devoted to the chaos, the people he hurt, the violence that he wrought on entire city, and him having to be saved from that. So of course, the follow-up record to that is going to deal with, I went around the world, and now I'm seeing things that were happening in my city. happening across the country. How do I cope with this? So I don't think it's right to throw out Black of the Berry as this terrible song.

I think Black of the Berry, what it's doing is so fascinating. Even if politically, I think a lot of Kendrick's music tends to dip into these ideas of respectability politics, which I just do not agree with, even if I think that the song is so visceral. And just kind of every single time I listen to it, I'm just like, whoa, this is, hits you like a ton of bricks. Yeah, I mean, purely from a writing perspective, I think it's one of his, like, unarguable best.

Just the hook, the pre-chorus, like, all this, the outro after that, you know, punchline at the very last line with the... The assassin chorus? Yeah, it's just infectious, but also very, like, very heady in terms of the wordplay with there and expressing that kind of the duality. But yeah, I mean, I really appreciate you sharing your perspective,

because that's where, like, when I listen, like, someone like me listen to this song, and then I hear some of the pushback, it's like, I don't really feel like I have a place to have an opinion. I just try to listen to all sides. But I think where I came to how I best understood this song was after I heard some of the genesis for it. And again, it kind of goes back to the same story that we shared with you. because he said, quote, when I say these lines talking about Black or the Barrier, it's for myself.

This is therapeutic for myself because I still feel that urge, and I still feel that anger and that hatred for the man next door, because I got to get a call knowing that someone around the corner done did this to my partner, saying killed his. So if you listen to this song as if he just got the news of someone in Compton killed, you know, one of his homeboys, it's rarely therapeutic because he's expressing. all the anger of that moment, but also trying to like, writing himself to keep himself in check.

Like, no, I can't retaliate because this is how the cycle continues. This is, you know what I mean? So he's conflicted. He's, on one hand, he really wants to go retaliate. On the other hand, he understands the bigger picture. Like, if I do that, then that makes me a hypocrite, that all these things, all these things I'm trying to empower my people and be this leader. if I go out and I involve myself in that, then I'm this big hypocrite. So if you take what he says and I get

the double whammy of that Billboard interview and this song I feel like is what it was just that it was a one-two punch in a time where yeah, it wasn't quite the time to kind of have that part of the conversation or that retrospectively, that's what it feels like.

But I appreciate it for just again, the honesty, because like he said, like there's one Kendricka Mark quote from this time, and it came from a conversation about this song where he said, that always sticks with me. He says, I'm not from the community. I'm not talking like about the community or of the community. I am the community. And that to me always meant like whatever my feelings are about my experiences, at least for someone like me, like you can't discredit it because he's feeling it. Maybe he goes back on this feeling, you know, five years from now when he's evolved or sees it differently.

but in the moment, in that moment, this is exactly how he was feeling. And so for me, I just have to kind of accept that as part of his experience and just listen. I mean, also, what this song does, and I think that, like,

here's the thing. Black people are not a monolith. I remember when the Trayvon stuff was happening, Mike Brown, all of these early things. I come from a family of, like, civil rights leaders, like March on Washington,

NWACP members for life, lawyers, people who, like, really have done the work. Getting into arguments because they, people who had lived through the civil rights movement, not agreeing with how a new generation was taking to the streets and what they were doing. And my position was always like, hey, like, you guys are legends. Don't get that wrong. But it's a different time. Like, it's a new generation that's protesting in the best way that they know how.

And what I bring that up to say is like, I don't agree with Kendrick. I still don't. A lot of stuff that he does, I don't agree with. But like, here's the thing. People can get mad at Kendrick and Kendrick can believe whatever he wants. I think that is also kind of the beautiful thing about this album, even if I disagree with a lot of the politics of it, is that like, as black people, as black artists in America, we can't grow unless we get to have all of the ideas. Right, right. What's your second nomination? I think I can guess it. All right. Well, I'm glad you picked that because it was on my list of five that I'm trying to, to choose from in real time. I already know what the second one is. Okay. Hit me. You're going to do how much a dollar cost.

I know. Okay, so I have one lock. I'm going to save that pick to see what you pick third. My lock is, though, Wesley's theory. Hit me. Oh, damn. All right. Can I tell you something?

I'm glad you picked this because Wesley's theory is my actual. number three pick. It is my actual number three pick. But my number three pick, I picked to one that is not my favorite song, but I think we have to talk about it in terms of a Kendrick Lamar podcast. But I love Wesley's theory. And I'm like, yo, is Cole going to make fun of me for like thinking this is one of the best songs on the other one? Okay, I think we're on the same page because I think we're going to talk about all the songs I wanted to talk about. So my plan worked beautifully. So Wesley's, because I wanted to talk about six songs and not overlap. And I think we're going to do that. So Wesley's theory is fucking amazing.

Let me just say that. It is fucking amazing. Love Wesley's theory. I don't even know how to even start to explain my love for this song, because let's just start from the beginning. Opening sample is brilliant, thematically brilliant, because you have this Jamaican singer, Boris Gardner, singing this refrain, every N-word is a star, which... Every nigger is a star. Thanks. Yeah, I can't sing it, so thank you.

So, but it's like, it works on, this whole album is framed about this, it's centered on this duality, right? It's U-I, it's Caterpillar, it's Butterfly, all these dualities. And we get the duality in this title because, on one hand, you can hear it as this empowering thing, you know, kind of redefining the N-word and putting positive connotations to it, which is what Kendrick does at the end. of the album on the song I, where he traces back the lineage of the word to African royalty, redefining the N-word in the same way that Boris Gardner was trying to do with this song in the 70s. But it also can be heard from the perspective of Uncle Sam. Every N-word is a star. Let me exploit your talent. Let me pimp the butterfly. And so you get that duality in the opening sample, setting the groundwork for the entire album. And then you get like, just from like,

I think about this song more like literature, and I listen to this album more like a movie than it is an album, which is why I have to listen to it from start to finish. And that's why this was exercise of just picking songs is so tough, because it's a fucking movie. And like every good movie, every good novel, your opening chapter sets up your protagonist. It often sets up your antagonist, and it lays out the central conflict of the story, which is exactly what Wesley's series does. First one is rap from perspective of Kendrick when he first got signed. He's talking about going getting money, jewelry, talking about girls, and the hook, you know, saying, I loved you. But now I just want to fuck. Like, that's him talking about music, not about a girl. It's about how he fell in love with music and it was just genuine love. But now he's just trying to exploit music for material gains. And so you get that in the first half.

the second verse we meet, he wraps from a perspective of the villain, Uncle Sam, who is pimping Kendrick, this young, immature caterpillar for, you know, we don't have to go into all the ways that white America, corporate America exploits talent, but it's there. He's playing that character on Uncle Sam on that second verse. And then we get the Dr. Dre thing. I can just go on because Dr. Dre ties into the end of Good Kid Mad City. This is the first song on Tipinpa Butterfly. So just like from a narrative perspective, from a storytelling perspective, this song is just brilliant.

There's not a wasted verse, not a wasted word. It all kind of sets up the entire album. Not to mention just the sonics of it is fucking so good. You get George Clinton singing like this weird like fucking, what's he say on the metaphysically, metaphorically, blah, blah, whatever. It's just like, we should navigate. We should navigate. Because money goes. back home. I love, one thing I think Kendrick is just so good at is building layer after layer on

a song. And this is a song where it's just like something new is happening every couple of seconds. Yeah. It all works. I just, man, I'm so happy you pick this fucking song. Okay. I'm glad you that I thought you're going to shit on this pick. Wait, why? This was going to be my third pick, but I'm doing like, I'm sacrificing my third pick. Because if you don't talk about it, people are going to be like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what it is. But, like, dog, I'm so happy. Like, this is, to me, is one of the top three songs on the entire project, easily.

Yeah, I think so. I'm so in love with this song. As you can tell, I'm very excited to talk about it. Can I also say that I think what this song does, too, is that I think a lot of times when we talk about Topimba butterfly, we complicate what it actually is, which is like, Topimba Butterfly is the classic sophomore album, where it's like the artist is famous now and has money. But I think the layer that it adds to that story is that Kendrick for the first time is traveling the world or like really, really he gets to go to Africa.

But there's this thing that's happening. And I think it happens with a lot of African Americans especially is this idea of that like success is a curse. And that when you get more money, when you get more prestige, when you get more access, you have this guilt on your back now. It's like, I need to give back. When you listen to the end of mortal man, right? It's so funny, the dichotomy of Tupac saying that there's basically going to be this reckoning where poor people are going to stand up and eat the rich, while also Tupac not being able to grapple with the fact that he himself is rich. And now he might also be part of the

problem because he's like, no, no, no, no. This is like, I'm helping now. I think it's so fascinating that it ends on Mortal Man, but it starts with Wesley's theory, which is so much about Kendrick being like, I have all of this money now. Dr. Dre is telling me, at the end, the hard part is keeping it. And when you get to a song like you,

the realization that like I chase this fame, I chase this money, and when this foundational person in my life needed me, the allure of money, the allure of Lucy, all of these things, kept me from doing the war. the most important thing I could do at that point.

It's such a jeet, like, I don't, just starting off with a record this dense, but it doesn't sound like that. It's very breezy and it's very easy to listen to. It's just I cannot talk about how good Wesley's theory is as an introduction to this album. Yeah, I mean, and even just like the bravery of starting the sophomore album after Good Kid Mad City

with this totally different sound, you know, produced by Flying Lotus, soundwave, Thundercat, Flippa. like that Thundercat bass line is incredible. I just love the statement that it makes. Not to mention, it's just a perfect song in terms of, if you're just looking at it as I quite often do, is just studying it for its kind of narrative components

and thematic components and what it's doing functionally, it's perfect. I can't think of a more perfect opening song. If you're just talking about a narrative concept album and how one would set that up, it's hard to think of another song that tops Wesley's theory. And again, if we're thinking about a best Kendrick song, all the components that we laid out in this first episode of this season,

where we're talking about concept, lyrical delivery, thematic stuff, but also great production. It just hits all those marks that I'm looking for in a song that you can hand someone. And, you know, this is a representation of, what Kendrick Kumar does and what he means. Oh, it's so great. It's like every love, I love this song.

It's so good. Can I also say I love the transition from the end of the chorus? And then Trey comes in and he's like, the hard part is keeping it, motherfucker. And then the beast is like, what you want? You a house or a cop on a hook as an amule, a piano guitar. Like there's so many points where like the transitions from like hooks to verses to refrains to samples is, I I can't believe both of us agree on this song. I'm going to give you all a little ad break,

and then we're going to come back for round three, because me and Cole are cooking. We'll be back soon. All right. We're back, and it's time for the final song nominations for Tipa Butterfly to recap. Round one, Cole picked you. I picked Hood Politics.

Round two, Cole picked Wesley's theory, and I picked Placker the Berry. And for round three, I'm throwing myself on the sword here. Thank you. I'm picking All right. Yeah. All right.

It's not my favorite song off this album. It's not even my top three. I just felt on a greatest Kenj Lamar song podcast, one of us at some point we're going to have to talk about All right. I'm glad we kind of agreed on this because I had the same conflicting feeling where I know. what it did. I know what it represents. I know it's important, but it's just not my favorite song. It's, I mean, I listen to it every time and I like it. I love the song, but it's just, it just, yeah, I'm conflicted about it, but I'm glad that you took, you took the sacrifice

here and we had, because we have to talk about it. It's a really important song. Can I give you my trolling for soup for this episode? Oh, gosh, okay. All right. I don't think this is actually that controversial. Okay. I think all right. fundamentally changed. The success of All Right fundamentally changed the way we talk about to Pimpa Butterfly. I vividly remember when to Pimp a Butterfly dropped. I'm not talking about critically. I'm talking about like people I know, rap Twitter, people were going in on this album. I don't think a lot of people understood the album. I don't think a lot of people, even people who

understood it, these are just laymen who understood it, even liked it. All right happens and it becomes this rallying thing. Like when you're in the streets protesting against police brutality, All right becomes this song that everybody's like, we're going to be all right. The grand irony of All right is that it's not really a protest song. The closest it gets is like, we hate Po Poe, want to kill us dead in the street foe show. But it's not, the whole song to me didn't feel as if it was supposed to be about protest. It's just one of those things that it becomes one. And I think that's honestly some of the best protest songs. generally aren't made to be protest songs.

There's just something emotionally in the spirit of it. And the reason I use this for my trolley for soup thing is that I'm not saying that to pimp a butterfly, people would have forgotten this album. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is after all right basically becomes the song of that year. It becomes that song of this moment. People go back to to Pimp a Butterfly

and give it a second listen in a way. I truly do not remember them doing because you have to realize if we're going in terms of like the singles off of to Pimp a butterfly, he got through so many singles before he gets to all right. There was I,

there was Black of the Berry, there was King Kunta, then there was all right. And I, like, I'm, I, the Black of the Berry and King Kunta, you're going to kill me for saying this. Those, I don't think those did commercially what

TDE or Kendrick expected them to do. I, well, I don't think, you're wrong. This album is just not for singles. This kind of goes into my point about all right. It's like, to your point, it became this thing almost out of his own control, out of Kendrick's control. It becomes this moment. But if you really dissect the song, he's not sacrificing. Like, everything about this album in terms of like its narrative functioned, what every song does, what every verse does. I feel like it's his most untamed album. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

He didn't, like every, even all the singles serve a narrative function. And we know that Kendrick will leave off songs, even if they're good songs, if they don't fit the narrative. I think that's the most extreme on the Pippa Butterfly, which is really why it's hard to just pluck out one song, offer it up on a plate as a single, and it's going to work. This album is best experience from front to back. I think that's the way he created it. And when you dig into All Right, the first verse is like all narrative.

He says, when I wake up, I recognize you looking for. at me for the pay cut. This comes off the heels of you. He's referencing waking up in that hotel room and recognizing Uncle Sam is pimping him. And then in verse two, he introduces the second villain of the album, Lucy Lucifer, wraps from her perspective in the same syntax that Uncle Sam does. So he's like doing very heavy narrative work in the verses of the song, which is why it always so funny to me when you actually listen to the entire song outside of just the refrain of, we're gonna be all right?

It's not a protest song. Like, it's just not. It's, it's... I think the pre-chorus does do. It does, yeah. When he says, nigga, and we hate Po Poe, want to kill us dead in the streets full show.

Nigga, I'm at the preacher's door. My knee's getting weak and my gun might blow, but we're gonna be all right. I think, like, if you take the pre-chorus, if you take the chorus, I do get why it became... Yeah, yeah, yeah. This rally and cry,

but I agree with you. Verse two starts with what you want, you a house, a, you a car, 40 acres, and a mulele, piano, guitar. That's literally just him continuing what he had been narratively doing the entire album. So, like, I picked this because it is an important song in his discography. Because what I say, I think it saved the reputation of Depimba Butterfly. That's not me saying it's saved it in terms of, like, oh, it's going to get forgotten. I think it saved it that a lot of people who listen to All right after being out in the streets

and chanting it, went back to the album with different ears. And we're like, oh, okay, I now understand what he was trying to do with this project. Yeah, I mean, it does paint it in a more like, almost more palatable light, right? Because it does, like, the refrain is hopeful. It's grounded in hope. And so you think that the entire album, that's what the entire album is doing. So I almost think it kind of can give you the wrong conception of what to Pimp a Butterfly is. and who even Kendrick Lamar is, right? Like, he performed this song on top of a cop car, you know, on BET, which famously got pushed back from Fox News. And, you know, and you think of the album cover, it's like him and his homeboys in front of the White House, like knocking out a white judge, you know, like, there's so much.

And then you think of the verses of the Black or the Berry where he's just going in on White America. And so much of this album is confrontational, right? and really, I think, kind of like, I don't know what I didn't call it an attack on white America, but it's definitely like calling it out and kind of, kind of highlighting obviously all the negative components or things that happen because of these policies that have been, you know, historically marginalizing his community. Like, it gets into all of that. And I think to your point about all right, kind of, I don't know, is that, does that make sense? It almost colors the album differently and maybe in a way that it shouldn't. I think this goes back to like

sometimes why it's hard for me to really, really champion this is Kendrick's best album because I do agree with you where this comes out at a time when because white America is basically looking for a piece of art and like not just white America, a lot of America is looking for a concise piece of art

that can kind of, tell them that, ironically, it's going to be all right, but can kind of contextualize so much of the chaos. I think we retroactively think of to pimple butterfly as like a very, a very protest heavy, like, police brutality record when it's not. It's very much a record about Kendrick come to terms with, like, what his responsibility is to Compton

after becoming rich and successful and leaving and going to South Africa and like what his role is and can he save his people in this very, very specific way. But after all right, I think retroactively we think of to Pimp a Butterfly as representational of the Black Lives Matter

movement and of those protests that summer in a way where I'm like, it's not really that though. To Pimba Butterfly is very much a continuation of like Kendrick's personal journey. And I think a lot of people might get mad. at us saying that. But I always, I was just like, no, to Pibble Butterfly is about Kendrick.

Okay. So this is like my, this is why I actually think art is so important for this. Because to your point, exactly, like, it's more important for me, from where I'm from, what I look like, to hear Kendrick be himself talk about his personal experience more than it is like me needing some like comfortable figure to like some comfortable quite literally, like, frankly black man to look to to give me this like heartfelt or heartwarming we're going to be all right optimistic kind of syntax like I know a lot of white people are kind of attracted to those characters that make you comfortable as a white person like in this dynamic of black and white what I think is so important about Kendrick and this is what I really learned like really

dissecting his music as I you know admittedly probably was initially attracted to him for that reason But when you really dig into his music, it is personal. It's so personal, like we explained on you. I think for me, at least, it's very important to hear someone expressing the emotions more than it is, like, them trying to deliver some, like, concise message of, like, here's how we fix things. Like, just to hear the raw experience of someone that is not like you from somewhere that is not like where you grew up, I think for me is, like, way more important than, yeah, someone trying to. to deliver us purposely this like this concise message of like here's all the the solutions to all the problems like I don't know like does that make sense do you think that's where we get something like mr. morale and the big stepers where I think Kendrick for years especially after damn especially after

politzer is getting very antsy because it's like so much of his career now has been pivoted in the popular consciousness yeah as him being this figure of like, well, no, you dropped all, you're the guy who dropped all right, though. Right, right, right, right. That's who you are, him being like, yo, dude, like, because if you, once again, dude, if you listen to these walls, you're like, yeah, man, I think as a culture, we all should have realized Kendrick is capable of some fucked up shit. Like, just, you know, that last verse of these walls. Like, I'm just like, oh, wow, Kendrick is a demon.

And I'd say that very jokingly, but, like. Let me tell you, I did not believe Kendrick. I did not believe that last verse until Mr. Morav came out. I thought he was just like playing, playing out a hypothetical situation. Now I 100% think it's real situation that actually happened. Did you always think it was true or like, did you hear it differently now? I had blacked it out. I had knew it.

But like, I think because like I'm susceptible to the legend of Kendra Kumar in a way that I think like he's himself trying to skewer successfully or maybe not, where it's like, once again, I think. I think people have this way of like, if we talk about mortal man, that line where Kendrick is just like, he made Billy Jean, do you really think he touched them kids? I'm like, whoa. It's like, Kendrick Lamar is way messier of a figure. His politics are way messier than we give him credit for. But because he's released so much transformational music, I think sometimes we like wipe our memory of the messier stuff. and be like, no, but like...

It's so much more complicated than the kind of a simple narrative that we kind of think about Kendrick in the popular consciousness, which I think, again, to your point, Mr. Morrell is, like, very consciously trying to say no, like, not that. I was, maybe I was trying to be that before. Because a lot of this, like, we have to admit, like, he is trying to be that person on this album. Oh, you, you convinced me. I didn't believe you for a while, and then going back to listen to Morto Man, I'm like, oh, well, now, oh, okay.

Yeah, I mean, he's compared. comparing himself to like Nelson Mandela. Like, it's like, he's, I really genuinely think he was like trying to be in that conversation, or at least he thought that was the position God was putting him in. I do think he believed that. And you think of all these kind of the folklore legends of the Tupac dream and all these things about him, like being a prophet, like all that kind of stuff. I really do in this time period, I do think he was thought that that was his, and he said

of this in interviews, like I do think he thinks. He thinks that's why he was put on earth in this time in 2015. But it's always him trying to reckon with that position and never really like being that person. It's always him trying to like, am I this person questioning it? I like this. This is what the people need. This was great. You have one more nomination.

I already know it's either going to be how much a dollar cost or mortal man. So just pick one. Yeah. It's how much of dollar cost. I like Mortal Man, but I think, if we're just talking about the song itself, because Mortal Man has like the whole skit, so it's like if you're technically counting that, I can see why you make that case. But as a just say as a standalone song, I think how much dollar cost is so, so, so good. He's staring at me at disbelief. My temper is building.

He's staring at me. I started the car. Then I tried to leave. Tell me why you like how much a dollar cost? I love this because like, it's essentially like a biblical parable. right? Like, it's, it's like very philosophical in nature. It's in the title, how much a dollar cost. It's a question about wealth, about how we value things, what we value, how much of our value kind of systems are relative, like how much a dollar, what a dollar means to you is different from, you know, what a dollar means to someone else. And so I just loved, like, he made this kind of self-contained parable. Yeah, something you can just think about, right? It's like, based on a real experience, but of him, I think everyone knows, but essentially it's him going to this gas station, homeless man asks him for change or a dollar. Kendrick refuses, it kind of bubbles up all these

insecurities about why he's not going to give him a dollar, and then the revelation is that the homeless guy's God, which is, of course, like, based on a real experience, but he definitely like plays it up to make this, yeah, this self-contained parable that I think you can kind of just like study and think about. It's like very just kind of invites you to think philosophically about value and wealth and all these things that he's contemplating on this album and trying to figure out as well. It's like I actually think the beautiful thing about this song is like hopefully at the end, Kendrick is just like, why the fuck am I holding onto my $1 so much? Like he's holding like I think he's holding onto it for principle.

Can I can I give you a secret? Okay. Because this is an album that means so much. much to you. And an album that like probably doesn't mean as much to me, I consciously made my picks ones where I'm just like, I want Cole to get every song that needs. Like I was consciously making my list. So I'm just like, I want to get, I want to throw myself on the sword for at least one or two of my picks. So Cole can like make sure he gets everything. I really appreciate that, Charles. We have become such good friends.

People are acting. They're like, Charles is going to, Charles and Cole are going to leave each other. And I was literally like, no, I'm really excited to figure out why Cole loves his album. It's going to be dope. Let's get into the moment that we've all been waiting for. All right. We've made our case for all of our nominations. In round one, Cole picked you.

In round two, he picked Wesley's theory. And then in round three, he picked how much a dollar cost. Round one for me, I picked Hood Politics. Round two, I picked the blacker the berry. Round three, I picked all right. But, listeners, Cole texted me, just so I can remind you all. And he said that this, while it's his favorite

Kendrick-Kulmar project, might objectively not be his best. So I'm giving you the floor now, Cole, to give us your ranking of the Kendrick albums now that we finished. Oh, geez. Okay, this is where I'm conflicting. And maybe this needs to overlap into the finale. where we both give our rankings, because I'm going to need some help.

So maybe we can this, maybe this can be a conversation that helps me formulate what my final ranking is going to be. Because, okay, so here's my problem with the album. It's exactly what we just talked about. I have such a subjective experience with it that it's really hard for me not to just automatically put it number one because it's my favorite album. But if I'm taking that hat off and I'm trying to be objective, I think the biggest thing for me, why I am having doubts in terms of putting it number one, just look at the streams.

Like, I'm not one to, like, totally put all the way into, like, what people are listening to, but I do think it is a factor. I do think it is a factor in terms of, like, especially at artists like Kendrick, like, someone that is moving culture, someone that is influencing culture, influencing music, influencing hip-hop, like, I do think what people are listening to is actually important. you know, this album left the Billboard 200 at some point and doesn't, I don't think regularly returns, whereas Dam and Good Kid Mad City literally have not left the charts since they And those are multi-platinum where I think this one only went platinum.

Okay. This isn't like a popular Kendrick project in terms of like people listening to it, which I don't, like, I think my, I think Connie's best album is Zezas and it's my favorite and I don't care if people really don't listen to that album. So like I get if people are like to pimple butterfly is the best one, I can get that pick because I like picking my favorite albums are generally not the ones that are most streamed. But I do think I will say this, my top three, we don't have to do them all. I think after doing this project with you, it's easily Good Kid Mad City number one, Damn number two to Pimp a Butterfly number three. Just because of the feeling I had going back listening to Good Kid Mad City and Damn, I think he achieved his goal.

more succinctly and in a better way where I think Topimp a butterfly is such a messy record just because it is trying to do so much. Yeah, well, this is the thing about Kendrick. He has these three albums, which I think are pretty universally, you might push back that Topimp a butterfly is a classic. I think all three albums are classic albums.

Oh, I think Two Pimper Butterfly is a classic. Like, here's the thing. I can be a hater, and I think in the same way like Kanye, you can make a case that like those first three Kanye albums are classic, you can make a case that these first three

catch Lamar's are just easily classic no matter what you think about them. Okay, so yeah, so for me the ranking, that's where it gets tough because I can see, and this is why they're classics, like you can legitimately make a case for every single album or each three albums to be number one.

Like, there's legitimate cases for every single one, I think. for me, number one is between Tabimba Butterfly and Good Kid Mad City. If I was being objective, I would probably have to put Good Kid Mad City. If I'm looking for things to push me over the edge

of an objective ranking, I'd have to go to the numbers, and the numbers on Good Kid is just wild. Like, he's about to break literal records, you know, and hip-hop for longest-charting album. It hasn't left since it came out. And it's time, like going back to it, it's timeless.

Like, there's, I mean, I think all three are timeless, but good kid is like, it aged so, so well. I think my objective, I'm about to say this, my objective ranking would be good kid to pimper butterfly, damn. Wow. My subjective ranking would probably be to pimpa butterfly, good kid, damn. You heard that first, people. We got him.

We got him. All right, now that we started it out, because, that's been in the chamber for a while. Let's figure out what our picks for DePimba Butterfly, the greatest song off it is. I'm going to let Cole go first. You're going to have to help me because it's between Wesley's theory and you. You know what?

I'm going to go first. You want to know I'm going to go first, Cole? You go first. Fuck yeah. I'm changing the rules. I'm changing the rules of last song standing right on our penultimate episode. I'm picking Wesley's theory. Oh, shit.

I'm picking Wesley's theory. All right. Let's go. Like, here's the thing. here's the thing. I wanted to pick it for my round three. Instead, I went with All right. But after talking about Wesley's theory with you, after listening to this album, going back to Wesley's theory, each and every single time being like, this is a masterpiece, I feel like my best gift for you as your co-host is saying, like, I don't want you to have to choose between your babies. I'm going

to pick Wesley's theory. Okay. So, okay, okay, I appreciate that. That really helps. Except now I'm like, okay, do I pick you or is it the same conflicted feeling about All right? Does All right have to be in the Royal Rumble finale? Or maybe that can be the listener's choice, but Here's the thing I'm going to be real. There's no goddamn way on this planet.

I'm picking All right for the greatest kind of Marathon. I'm just going to be honest. So like, you can pick it. Right. But I know, come on, man. Okay. I'm picking you. Set it in stone. It's you. I'm so, I'm so happy.

I talked you off the ledge of picking all right. Because there's the thing, dude, like, you know full well that your ass was not picking all right in the season finale. Like, come on, bro. If it's an obligation pick, we're definitely not picking it for the fight. Yeah, so good, good point. It's an, dude, it would have been an obligation pick. And I, like, I like, I like, all right as a song.

But I was just like, dog, that's why I picked Wesley's theory. Because I'm like, I, like, Wesley's theory is not only a better song, but like, I can, we can make a case for it. Like, all right is just kind of like, that's like beginner level. Like, this is kind of a song. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point. Good point. Okay, so we have, do we have our master list?

We have our master list. I'll run it down for people. So, Cole has Mad City, Mother I Sober, Fear, Rigamortus, Ignorance is Bliss, cartoons and Serial, Nostalgia, and You. I have Mad City, Father Time, DNA, ADHD, Untitled O2, The Heart Part Control and Wesley's theory. I'm feeling really good. Like, I'm feeling way stronger about this than I was a few episodes ago.

I think we have some really strong list. Yeah, I do. Yep. I think generally speaking, yes, but we're going to need the listeners pick to really solidify this because we need Sing About Me or Money Trees. And I think people will vote for all right. Do you think people will be like, fuck y'all we're putting for all rights? Well, you know what?

Based on my poll, or on Twitter, I was expressing my, you know, grief about trying to pick these selections for this episode. And the list that I got back for the top three were all different. So I think, I don't know if there's a clear-cut best song, like, like people's choice for to Pimp a Butterfly. So I don't know. I definitely think it's going to be money trees or sing about me. Here's the thing. Guys, listeners, you can vote for whatever you want. Don't vote for all over eight.

because, like, we're not picking it. Like, if somebody, like, votes for, like, muddy trees, they're sick about me. I could see both of us being like, all right, yeah, these are in contention. Like, cool, cool, cool. Somebody picks, all right. I'm like, dog, y'all can, but, like, no. Yeah, yeah. All right.

I'm excited for next week, man. This is going to be, I don't even know. Yeah, we're going to have to talk about how we're going to whittle this down. Next week, we're going to whittle it down. Housekeeping, don't forget. Next week, yo, season finale, it's what we've been building towards. We're finally going to do it. We're going to crown the last song.

standing. So don't forget, look out for the polls on all the socials, especially dissect. You can vote for whatever you want. Any Kendrick song that is not on our master list is in contention. I'm kind of excited. And with that, yo, guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Last Song Standing. Shout out to our producer, Justin Sales, our audio production wizard, Kevin Pooler, and the person behind the wonderful theme music, Devin Ronaldo. Yo, we're going to see y'all next week. Peace.

All right. Yo, Cole, let's get into the stingers because, who, I had you listen to the artist of his generation. The artist that is the most important, the most important rapper of honestly the last probably 15 years. Can you regale us with your trip down

timestamp laying from Mr. Aubrey Graham? right yeah so anyone that missed it last week my homework assignment was to listen to all the time stamp records by drake um it was actually interesting exercise i do appreciate that you know these five songs i guess kind of encapsulate his career arc um pretty consistently every it looks like every two every three years he drops one which is kind of like listening to the kendrick heart series um but kendricks is way better uh it's not do you want do you want my ranking low to high or high to low one to five or five or five to one. Five to one. Five to one. Okay. 7 a.m.

on bridal path from CLB is last on my list. Easily. Good choice. It's, okay, this is what happens when you try to

recreate your past too much, it just becomes like too, there's something about 7 a.m. on Bridal path that's just like

him trying to relive these classic moments and it just doesn't feel as genuine. So that's my main problem on that. So number four, 6 p.m. in New York

from reading this too late. The beat is not great. The cadence of his voice is just kind of annoying to me over. When he gets into that aggressive high tone and he does it for too long, I'm just out. And he does that through that whole song. How can you be out? Kendrick literally has built his career on the aggressive high tone thing

where I'm just like, oh no. But Drake's is like annoying. Kendrick's is like cool. No one's ever said that answer. Continue. What's your number three? I know this is, I think this is maybe the,

no, maybe not. Okay. Number three is five a.m. in Toronto. All right. This is objectively wrong. This is so,

I know, okay, this is like the fan favorite one, right? Five a M. in Toronto is better than any heart series. Like, and I will,

like, five a. m. Toronto is so good. Oh, no. It starts out cool, but again,

like, when he doesn't, like, if you're just going to rap for like three to four or five minutes straight, switch up your fucking flow. Like he just stays in the same cadence, same pocket, same voice, like the whole fucking song. Like, come on. Because he's, he's, because dog, give these things the look, the verse and even a hug. That's why every song sound like Drake feature Drake. Whoa. Come on. Injected in my veins. Injected in my veins. You're

wild. You wildly. You're outside. I know you weren't outside for 5 a.m. in Toronto, man. I think you learn that about me on this podcast yet. I'm not I'm not the outside type. I stay inside most of the time. Your list is already like egregious. So what's your number two? It's going to be wrong. All right.

Number two, 9 a.m. in Dallas from think me, thank me later. You think 9 a.m. in Dallas is better than 5 a.m. in Toronto. Yeah. Because, okay, it's the first one. To me, it's the most genuine. It's like him. I mean, it's 2010.

It's like first record. like he sounds hungry i believe him like it sounds genuine so even though it might like five a and torontoes beat better i just think i just like the gent like just like the authenticity of nine a m in dallas that's what okay that's fair that's fair so that leaves number one four p m in calabasas which i objectively like this song it's a good song oh wait is this is this drake praise on the oh yeah okay well one is his flow is just fucking cool on this like he's not doing the high-pitched thing. He's like, it's got the like Diddy parody beat, which is super clever. He's like taking shots at Didi the whole time. He's just delivery is cool. He's not trying too hard,

but he's like punchline after punchline shot after shot. I think like 2016 area, 2615, 2016 is my favorite Drake era. Like when he did nothing was the same. Like that's my favorite Drake album. I would like that is such a basic pick, bro. Is it really? Yeah, that's a basic pick. the real the real cool head pick is if you're reading this too late best drake album really hell i mean i like i liked i said that same period but like i don't know i thought i thought nothing was the same was more dynamic reading this too late has like bops and like hits but i don't know there's more of an arc to me on uh you know how you feel like i'm a basic kendrick fan i feel like you're oh yeah i'm a hundred percent i'm a basic drake fan i barely listen to the guy

I appreciate you. I appreciate you for... How did I do, though? You did... How did I do? How does that write? You did better than I thought you would. The rank is bad.

But that's fine. I'm just glad that you, in the spirit of the exercise, you went along with it. Can you tell the listeners, because you actually told me the wrong song last week, so you told me to listen to a different song? Yeah, so anyone following along and listening to these with us? I made it...

So last week, I said, Beethoven's final string quartet is what I wanted Charles to listen to. I was actually thinking of his final piano sonata. So it's piano sonata and C minor, Opus 111 is what I had you listen to. So what did you think? What was your, what's your gut feeling on this? So I can describe it is aggressively beautiful. Okay.

And yeah, like I was in love with it. I listened to it this morning. and just a great song, just to be that dynamic to, yeah, I just felt so many emotions. Like at one point, I'm just like, wait, is that it? And then it comes back and it's,

yeah, it's just so hard, hard to kind of describe the way I was feeling when I listened to it, but it was really, really just like, I've been listening to a lot of electronic music lately. Okay. And listening to that sonata, it was just like, oh, it's all here.

In terms of like, like how much like music has changed so much but how much it really hasn't. Oh, yeah. In terms of the way it can make you feel in terms of the way that like even with just like what, how is it just the piano? Yep. Just how much that one instrument can do to you when someone who really knows how to write music and really knows how to play music, the way that they can make you feel over this.

Beethoven's great at like exactly what you said. He'll encapsulate the beauty and the tragedy of life in a single, I mean, a single piece. That's a great way to put it, yeah. Single piece, but also just sometimes a single, like, phrase and, like, that opening, the opening of this piano sonata is just so tragically intense. And, but then it, like, flutter. Anyone that listens, just listen to, like, the dichotomy between the opening chords, these big, aggressive, like, very dissonant chords.

And then it follows up with this very high, fluttering piano, like, almost, like, like birds chirping. It's almost like when you've been outside during the worst thunderstorm and then like the sun comes out and it transforms into like the warmest, most beautiful day. Having that together and just doing that

with a piano within the course of a few minutes, I was just kind of just like, oh man, I can understand why Cole gave me the song. It was beautiful. Great homework. Appreciate you taking the exercise. I wasn't sure I was going to go, but it's gone. quite well. I'm glad that you're seeing the light with, we're not seeing the light, but just

being exposed to it. Because I think like, once you start to listen to it more, because I remember when I first started listening to classical music, it just all sounded, and all kind of just blurred together. And I couldn't really separate any part from the next part. But once you, like, get more familiar with it, you really see how emotional and how, yeah, how it can just capture human emotions without words so beautifully, so completely. So cool. Are we going to do homework for the finale? We should definitely do homework.

One more. The fans love. Okay. Okay. What do you got? All right. So in the spirit of our damn, that's wild, I want you to dip your toe, dip your toe into anime.

I mean, I'll watch a whole movie if you think I'll like it. I definitely, I've been trying to get myself into it because a lot of people that I respect like the genre. So I'm like, okay, I just need to, find that entry point. So what's a good entry point piece? A good entry point. You know what? This is going to be a basic picture answer, but I do think that like this is something where you can watch it with your kids. Okay. Okay. And it's beautiful. You're going to love it. Have you ever watched a Miyazaki film? No. All right. We're going to start you on Spirited Away. What is it? Spirited Away.

Yes, Spirited Away. 2001. We're going to start you with Spirited Away. A lot of people would be like, Charles, why did you give him something more difficult? Why are you started? I'm like, Miyazaki, I think, is like a great, like, if you are, I don't know about anime, I think spirited away is the one where it's like, it's a lot of people when it was released in America finally got that anime is probably one of the most important artistic genres of our lifetime. Okay. All right. I'm in. Let's do it. What are you giving, what are you giving me for homework? Okay. How about Bob Dylan? How familiar are you? That's, It's like super white guy. Come on.

Super. Here, give me your favorite Bob Dylan album because I listen to Bob Dylan, but I used to work at Rolling Stone and I have flashbacks to like every old white dude being like, you like rap young man? What about Bob Dylan? He's a real MC and I'm like, all right, relax, go put on the fucking young thug. All right? So give me your Bob Dylan album that can kind of wash the bad taste of old Rolling Stone people trying to force him down my throat. I have, I guess I have like probably two favorite Dylan albums and they're kind of different. So one is Highway 61 visited, which might be as more popular. It's the one with like a Rolling Stone on it.

It's the one where he kind of, oh, come on, man, that's a dizzy pick. Like, I've even dabbled a little. Give me the deep cut. Okay, the deep, okay, so the real Dylan heads understand this is probably his best album. It's past his kind of quote unquote prime of the 60s. It's 1975's blood on the tracks. Oh, that's for the real Dylan heads. That's the real Dylan head.

I think the consensus best album is Blood on the Tracks. It might change your perception of what Dylan even sounds like. So let's go with that. Bob Dylan, blood on the tracks. Give it a listen all the way through. Let me know what you think. Hell fucking yeah. I'm so excited for this homework, man.

This is great. All right. We will see y'all next week.