Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 105: 2022 Pre-NBA Draft Roundup (with Bryce Simon of Motor City Hoops and The Pistons Pulse)

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

This episode, featuring Bryce Simon from Motor City Hoops and The Pistons Pulse, rounds up the pre-draft process with a discussion of the three prospects most likely to be the Pistons' pick at #5 (Bennedict Mathurin, Jaden Ivey, and Keegan Murray), amongst other draft-related subjects. Thank you to Bryce for guesting on the show!

Welcome back, everybody. You're listening to Drive into the Basket, part of the Basketball Podcast Network. I am Mike here with our guest for this episode of Motor City Hoops and the Pistons Pulse podcast and one of the premier Pistons content creators, Bryce Simon. Thank you, Bryce, for joining us or joining. Thank you for having me, Mike, man. I'm excited for this. I've been looking forward to you.

You reached out about a week ago. We finally made it work and no better time than just a day or two before the draft. Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned it by the time this drive. probably about 36 hours to draft. You have made a tremendous amount of good draft content, good video content. Why just tell the listeners what that is and where they can find it? Absolutely. So I have a YouTube channel, just Motor City Hoops slash Bryce Simon. Just type in Motor City Hoops. You'll find it. Have about 20 player profiles on there.

Also, DeAndre 8 and 1. I know that's not draft, but if you're interested in it for free agency. And then those are also on Mavsdraft.com. If you guys know at Mavs draft, He's a really good NBA draft analyst on the Locked-on Big Board podcast with Rafael Barlow. Yeah, fantastic. Absolutely. Be sure to check that out. Absolutely, like, excellent content there. If you want to see good video breakdowns, yeah, check it out, especially as we just get very up close to the draft.

And you guys want as much information as you can get. It's a great source. So, yeah, let's get right into it. I was going to joke and didn't say we were going to have this conversation about what we think the Kings will do. Like, I joke about this on every episode. It seems like, yeah. If you had to make your best guess as to what this completely horribly unpredictable team will do, what would you say? Yeah, so I guess I better stay true to what I said on the Pistons Polls podcast that dropped on Tuesday if we have any crossover listeners.

And I said that I think there's a 70% chance that Jayne Ivy goes number four, whether it's to the Sacramento Kings or if somebody trades up. I don't know if the Kings are going to take him. I do think he's best player available at that spot, assuming the top three goes the way we all think. it's going to, but I don't know, Mike. Like, they just traded away Halliburton. They have Fox. They have David. Like, are they going to be willing to take on Jay and Ivy?

I don't know. And maybe I'm crazy for thinking they will. I think what I'm kind of sold on is maybe they end up trading the pick. Yeah, it's entirely possible. I mean, what I have in my head based on what we've seen before from the owner of the Kings, is that it's entirely possible. He will either work himself in a knots or just get impatient and say, we're drafting Keegan Murray or we're just keeping this pick or something else.

It's like, he's not a guy who's very good at getting the right professionals and getting out of the way and letting them do their work. And that feels so bad for Kings fans. Wasn't there a report that came out that they've had Keegan Murray in? They were whining and dining him. He went out to eat with Deerrin Fox and some bonus. And I don't know. Maybe that happens more often than what this is being made out to in terms of when a player comes in for a workout. But it sure seems like there's being a big deal made out of Keegan Murray in Sacramento with those guys.

And I actually do like that pick for the Kings, also because I like who it leaves for the Detroit Pistons. We have no ulterior motives here. No, no, no, no. It's all on the up and up. Yeah, we just want what's best for the Kings, obviously. So, yeah, it's, I just feel so bad for Kings fans, definitely. And, yeah, I agree, like on paper, Kagan Murray is, you know, he's a good positional fit for them. He's going to provide what they need in terms of just a good role player who can come in and contribute

immediately. And there's also the fact that he wanted to come in and work out for the Kings. Like he had good things to say about the Kings. And back during the 2018 draft with Marvin Bagley, the fact that he was willing to go and work out for them was actually reportedly a fairly big deal. Now, that might mean that they have chosen to actively discount that from their decision-making process because that did not go well for them at all. But you never know. I mean, Mike, I do think it's an important thing to bring up because we've heard that like Chet supposedly has not given his medicals to at least a couple teams. I don't know if it's in the top three or the top five.

The report came out of what Jaden Ivy has only worked out with for the magic and the pistons. So I think there is something to that in terms of are these players and their agents, their handlers jockeying to not get selected by the Kings? So if you have this guy in Kagan Murray who is a good player who's going to come in and if they want to be a playoff team next year, like everybody talks about that that's their goal and he wants to be in Sacramento and he's going to be a professional about it, maybe you have to weigh that type of stuff because you are the Sacramento Kings. It's entirely possible. Yeah. Like I said, they're just, they're the NBA chaos team. Like they, it wasn't it, I'm sure it was crazy to you as it was to me back when they traded Halliburton and it came out through Woj.

that they hadn't even made it knowing that he was available. Teams were like, we wish we had known that we could have traded for him. So they did not at all put themselves into the proper position to get maximum value for that player. Yeah, it was a shocking trade. Now, I will say this,

De Monisabonis isn't a bad player. So, like, in general, it's not like, I don't think it was as crazy as what we all felt when it first happened, but it was like, nobody even knew Tyrese Halliburton, like you said, was on the trade block. It's not like Jeremy Grant, who's been talked about being traded for six months now.

And so I think it was just the shock of that, how good Halliburton was. And again, a guy who by all accounts wanted to be in Sacramento and was happy to be there and seemed to fit next to Deerrin Fox. So it was an interesting move, but sometimes that's what the Kings do. Yeah, that's true. And before that, they traded the number nine pick in a very strong draft, excuse me, used the number nine pick in a very strong draft class on Davian Mitchell, another guard, an undersized guard to boot.

an undersized 22-year-old guard. So, yeah, in any event, that's the Kings. Let's stop talking about them before we go insane. So let's move straight on to, you know, the big question, of course. It's come out that the three guys who are likeliest to go to the Pistons are Keegan Murray, Jaden Ivy, and Benedict Matheron. So first off, who is your favorite? Who would be your pick amongst those three?

Okay, so my favorite and whom my pick would be are different. My favorite is Benedict Matherin. And I really didn't mean to become like the driving force. And there's others there with me. I'm not saying like I was the first one or I'm the only one by any means. I'm not trying to like claim that title whatsoever. But I didn't mean to push the bin math propaganda as much as what it's ended up being. I'm cool with it.

I'll live with it. I'll take it. I love his game. I love what he brings to the table. With that said, okay, I try to be fair and unbiased and, you know, make decisions with my mind. necessarily my heart. Like I still would take Jaden Ivey if he's there. I do think Jaden Ivey is just a little bit better than Benedict Matherin. It's definitely between those two for me, but I would go Jaden Ivy 1A, Benedict Matherin 1B if that was who was still on the board. Yeah, I'm in the same boat, man.

I did not know very much about Matherin until I don't know, maybe about a month ago. So, like I was aware of him, but I didn't really look closely into him. And the more I looked into him, the more I liked. But I'm in the same boat. If we were down to the two of them on draft night, I would have to think long and hard. Now, what gives, for you, what gives Ivy the edge? And what do you really like about Ivy? I do think Ivy has a higher ceiling. And that is not me saying Benedict Mathron doesn't have a high ceiling. That's one thing I love about Benedict Mathron is a lot of people's like, oh, he's KCP 2.0. Yeah, like that's his floor, but Benedict Mathron has more to his game. He can develop more. I was the same as you, Mike. I knew who he was, but I fell in love with him

in his game when I really dove into the film and did my breakdown. I think he was the first player. I actually dove into. Jaden Ivy, I just think if some of the stuff comes together, he puts so much pressure on the rim. The shot is a little funky, but the percentage was good. I just think the athleticism and the explosiveness, the first step, all of those things. Like, you just can't teach those things.

And so I do think he can turn into a special player. Now is there a chance it doesn't all materialize and come to fruition? Absolutely. I also think defensively, I'm banking on the inconsistency becoming more consistent and seeing more of the high level play that we saw in the defensive end and less of the low level, which did happen quite often. What would be your biggest concern about Jaden Ivy? Like I know that he's a fairly raw player in some ways.

So yeah, for you, if not the swing skill, really, what's your primary concerns? So my absolute biggest concern, Mike, especially with him in Detroit, is that he actually wants to be the primary on ball player. If that is who he wants to be, and if he is dead set on that, which wasn't how he was at Purdue all the time. He played a lot of off ball at Purdue. But if he is dead set on coming into the NBA and being the primary creator, then I quickly move Benedict Mathron above him on the Pistons board because I don't want to

take the ball out of his hand. Now, a guy like Lazarus Jackson, who I respect a lot over at Detroit, Detroit Bad Boys, he actually thinks that is where Jay Nivey's ceiling is and so that you should be drafting him for that, which I find interesting. I don't think that's where he fits best, whether it's the Pistons or otherwise, but if that's who he wants to be, it changes it a little bit for me. Yeah, I mean, it's been reported that the only two teams he's worked out for the magic who have the first overall pick and the Pistons. So, and it seems like he is interested in playing in Detroit. We would hope that unless he's a complete dingus, that he understands.

what he would be next to Cade. Yeah, and just because he was going to play off of Cade doesn't mean he never gets to be the primary creator, right? Like Cade can play off ball a little bit. I don't know how you stand on it. I don't want him to be fully the Luca Donchitz heliocentric player, but you can also stagger minutes. And I do think whenever this team has a core eight or nine rotation players in the sea,

I'm not saying for like 10 years, it's going to be the same eight or nine guys. But when you have, when you're really trying to win every single game and you have those eight or nine rotation guys, we'll see Dwayne Casey or whoever the coach is at that time stagger minutes more than what we've seen that's just almost five in, then the next five type of stuff. And Jaden Ivy can run the second unit as a primary creator in those situations. Now, the way I've thought about Ivy, like I've thought that he does have the highest offensive ceiling of the players who are going to be available to the pistons higher,

probably higher than Benedict Mathuron. It's definitely higher than Keegan Murray, just because that athleticism, like you said, is something you absolutely cannot touch, cannot teach, rather than explosive athleticism. And so I've thought that he might have the highest ceiling, but might not have the higher probability of reaching it for the pistons because he's going to be playing next game, like you said. Cates can be the primary handler. He can play off ball, but, I mean, you want him on the ball, definitely. How do you, so I feel like, what do you feel like the skills are that, that Ivy's really going to need to develop right in in order to have that fit be good?

I love what you said there, Mike, because that's what I, and I have a bad habit of this, as well. We always talk ceiling floor, but there's another part to that, and what is the chance they hit that ceiling or the chance they hit that floor? And so I thought that was really interesting what you said there with Jaden Navi. I think the swing offensive skill, I actually don't think it's the shooting. I think his catch and shoot is going to be fine. And I don't think he has to make movement three's Mike. I think that in-between game is where he has to get a lot better, whether he develops a little floater, whether he develops a true jumper, like one, two, drivel pull-up, the mid-range stuff was not good this past season at Purdue. That doesn't mean he can't develop it.

And he also wasn't in a system where there was a lot of room when he did get into the lane because they were always playing with two bigs. But I think that's the swing skill for him is kind of the in-between mid-range game. Yeah. I mean, but the way I see it is like, I agree, he is not going to have to take motion threes. And if he can, you know, fantastic. That's an entirely different element to his game. But the skills for me would be, you know, shooting. And he did have a a great deal of inconsistency down the stretch of last season. Yes. 11 of 52 or so 12 of 51 or something over the last 13 games.

He does take a lot of, it did take a lot of bizarrely difficult threes. So I feel like if it were more traditional profile, he'd have a higher percentage. But another thing that, so two other things. Number one is his off ball movement. Like he didn't really move too much at Purdue.

And I feel like if he's going to be maximizing himself as a secondary guy, he's got to move a ton. But also, and this is like what you're, that really buy into a to a secondary role, like fully buy into that. Yeah. The off ball movement is interesting. I have no inside intel on this, Mike, whatsoever.

Like, I'm not reporting something. I don't have those kind of connections. This is just me watching the games, trying to judge body language and those type of things. And that's not always easy to do through film. But if you asked Jane Ivy and he gave you 100% honest answer, I wonder how happy he was. playing at Purdue in that system.

Because it really was, you could see possessions where it's like, why are they playing high, low through the bigs? Give Jaden Ivy the ball, set him a ball screen, and let's get busy. And so I wonder if there was a little bit of that. Again, the lane's always clogged up. And so I wonder if he's going to flourish a little bit more in the NBA. I know that's something people like to say all the time. But I think it really could be true with Jaden Ivy.

Yeah. Now, as far as the fit with Cade, what I keep coming back to is Tyrese Maxey next to James Hardin. Okay. So Maxie was the primary handle before Hardin came along and Hardin was not great when he got to Philadelphia by any means. But Maxie immediately adapted to be a guy who was just constantly moving off the ball, would take threes, would catch passes, move into the interior and pass to another guy and was just really playing the secondary handler or the not the second fiddle, whatever you want to call it to Harden to a T. How would you think about that as far as Ivy's role with distance? I love it. And I think that's perfect for Jayne Ivy. So again, I think if he wants to be

the primary ball handler if he wants to have the show in his hand, then I'm not as high on it. But if he'll be what you just outlined, Mike, I think he flourishes in that role if he's willing to accept it. Now, I know that's easier said than none. We've seen other players who I think we all say here and go, if that player would just accept this role, he would be big time. And that's not always the case. I think Jayne Ivy is a good passer in the scenarios you just outlined right there as the secondary guy, not the primary guy initiating offense every possession. Yeah, because I would think that if, you know, who knows, maybe the role that's best for him that does take most advantage of his athleticism is just attacking downhill with a ball and his hands

constantly as a sort of lead guard. But I would be, I would have severe misgivings going into this as far as his ability to, well, two things really, his ability to make the right reads and passes, which you have to do at blinding speed. And it's tough for anybody in the NBA, let alone somebody who moves as fast as he does. And also, like, finishing at the rim is on paper his best skill, but he does not have much in the way of refinement. I agree. Look at how good John needs to be.

John Morant needs to be, for example, how creative he needs to be. And Ivy doesn't really have that. So, yeah, as a secondary guy, that issue could be ameliorated. Yeah, I agree. The finishing at the rim, he gets there, right? Like, I mean, he puts pressure on the rim. He's going to, Mike, whether it's transition, attacking an unsettled defense. if you do give him a ball screen, which you will do at times.

But he's got some work to do finishing around the rim as well. Like it's not like he was just unbelievable as you watch the film. So there isn't some absolute refinement to his game. That's a great word. He just, I'm buying it. Like I think he can get there and he just has some stuff that you can't teach guys. That explosive first step. Oh, yeah.

Maybe I'm falling in love with it. Maybe it'll prove to be overrated and overvalue. but I do think that that stuff is valuable. Absolutely. And I think from what you're saying, you think the argument could be made that Detroit is not only a good situation, not only a fair situation for him,

but could actually be a good situation for him based on the weaknesses he does have. I absolutely think it's the best fit for Jaden Ivy. I mean, if you're talking about fit for Cade Cunningham and the Pistons, it's Benedict Matherin, in my opinion, hands down. I think Benedict Matherin is a perfect fit, prototypical player next to Cade Cunningham.

But I think Jaden Ivy is a good fit, not great, but a good fit next to Cade Cunningham. But for Jaden Ivy, the player, I think going to Detroit and playing next to Cade Cunningham is ideal, as opposed to going, I'm trying to think, where he would go and be the primary guy from Indiana. Indiana, maybe Orlando. I mean, he's not going to go number one, but Orlando, if they like just shock the world. like I don't think that that's where he needs to go. Yeah, well, Indiana, I would say even like Halliburton has proved himself to be so good as an on-ball play.

That's true. That's true. But Halliburton, it seems, can fit with pretty much anybody. So I think Ivy would get a lot of burn there. But, yeah, as far as talking, man, where he would be number one. Houston. Houston would be the one I don't like. That's the fit I don't like.

Yeah, I mean. Because I think you put the ball in his hands and, you know, him in, in J-Ling. I get, that's an explosive back court. Don't get me wrong. Like, that's going to be a lot. lot of highlight reels, but I just think it would be best for him. And there's been a lot of talk about him wanting to be in Detroit, you know? And his mom played for the WNBA team in Detroit.

And so I think it's, I think it'd be interesting for him. Yeah, perhaps. So why don't we move on to the second guy of our triad? And we're going to make this a bit of a compliment sandwich by putting Kagan Murray in the middle here. because, yeah, I don't think either of us are huge fans of Keegan Murray. And definitely, it's definitely harshly criticized in some quarters of Pistons fandom online. So what do you like about Keegan Murray first? I mean, I know there's some things definitely to dislike about him,

but there are some things to like also. So what would you say if the Pistons were to pick him? First off, what would you be thinking if the Pistons were to pick him? I'd be fine with it, Mike. like that's the thing is he's a good player like i just would not be as excited about him as jane ivy or benedict matherin and i think if i'm being completely honest part of this is because we talked about it before we started recording omari sankofa the second is my you know co-host over at the pistons pulse and you know he obviously along with the other beat riders have said the pistons really like kegan

murray so i get all the positive stuff from him our producer and a good friend that helps me with motor city hoops west davidport he's always pushing kegan murray propaganda towards me. And so I think I'm kind of like purposely pushing back. You know how you do that? Like you kind of like take the other side of it just because. And so, okay, you asked me for positive. I'm sorry. He can shoot it. He's really good in transition. I think he can get out and run and finish. I think he can start the transition with like outlets. I know that's not a sexy thing, but he's really good at that. And then defensively, he does have some versatility. So I don't know that he's going to guard fives. I don't know that he's going to guard ones, very confident in him guarding threes and

fours, maybe some twos. So I do like his switchability and his ability to be versatile on the defensive end. Okay. So yeah, definitely agree with you, a great shooter. I'm not sure I agree 100% on the, on the defensive versatility. I feel like based on his strength, based on, I think he'll be, he'll add more strength. He's already a strong player that you'll be able to put him out there in small ball five situations where he'll be able to probably guard whoever, you know, whoever goes up against him, assuming it's small ball on the other team. And I think he'd be able to handle or at least hold his own sort of against a fair number of centers in the league.

Of course, the MBs and the Yokic's are going to knock him over, but that's true of almost anybody. Sure. Yeah. And I think against fours it'll be fine. Against most threes will be fine. It's my question is definitely down to even shooting guards, like explosive players, because of his defensive first step.

Like he, it's not fast and he takes long, slow strides compared to a guy like Sadieke Bay who takes short, quick strides. and I feel like it's just going to be a little too easy for explosive guards to blow past him. No, I can see that. And that makes him a little less desirable, right, if the defensive versatility isn't there. Like, that's one thing I feel like people have talked a lot about with him. But if he's not able to switch and do those things, you know, small ball five would be really, like if he can hold up in the post like that, that would be really interesting with him.

Because then offensively, he can do the things that I think he'll do well, which is, you know, pick and pop, attack a closeout. I don't think he's a guy. Like, I think what's hard with some of that film, there's other guys like this too, Mike, like E.J. Ladell. I don't know if you've watched any film on him. It's like, I don't, how much of this stuff is going to translate? Because they're throwing it to these guys in the midposts

and they just kind of bully their way, turn over their right shoulder and score. And every time they do that, I'm like, well, that's not going to work in the NBA. But maybe, maybe I'm being too harsh. I don't think you are. I mean, it's an entirely, it's a very different ballgame in the NBA. It's much faster. Efficiency is much more highly prized. And it's very, very, very, very difficult to be a good post player in the NBA in any sort of volume.

And I agree. This brings me to my chief concern about Murray. And I want to say before this that the guy's a smart player, hard worker, good shooter, will do exactly what you ask him to. And I think those are valuable qualities, absolutely. But the primary misgiving for me is how is he going to create offense in the half court at the NBA level? Yeah, I think it's a major question mark. and I don't know how he does it.

You're not going to throw it to him in the post like we just talked about, right? Like I don't think he's going to be efficient there. He had a little more wiggle than what I thought whenever I went into my breakdown. But I think that maybe because my expectations were super low. He doesn't do a good job just catch and go rip. Like he's not going to be a ball stopper in that way. But I think a lot of his offense is going to come directly from everybody else creating something for him. And that's why, you know, to me, he's a number four option, maybe a number three if it all goes right.

And that's why I like the other two guys a little bit better because I think at a ceiling that there's a real outcome for Jaden Ivy or Benedict Matherin to be number two options. I'm not saying there's a huge chance. I'm not saying I guarantee it. But I think there's definitely a better chance of those guys doing it than Kigin Murray. Do you think that there is any possibility? Because I'd say his number one weakness on, or one of his, what? whatever, for my purposes, I would say, his number one weakness on offense is that he absolutely cannot drive from the perimeter of the hoop. I mean, his handle, it's not just that he has a relatively

poor first step, but his handle is awful. Like when you see him actually try to try to drive the ball from point A to point B, did you think that there is hope, you know, for a player who is kind of a late bloomer that he'll get that handle together? Yeah, I mean, this is what's hard with these guys is everybody says just work harder, you know, like just get in the gym and work on this. Maybe he hasn't. Maybe it's just not coming, Mike. Like, Maybe it's a confidence thing that he hasn't been able to develop it. And this is where the age comes in as well. Because if we, I know we're not going to talk about Jabari Smith Jr.

But this is the big, you know, knock on Jabari Smith Jr. as well. But Kegan Murray's had, you know, two more years to develop this stuff than a lot of the other guys in the class. And I think that's why the age thing does matter. Why hasn't it developed? Was he not allowed to work out? Maybe at Iowa, they took their bigs and they just put them on the block and said work on this stuff. And he hasn't had the chance. So maybe he's going to come back.

And as Summer League, we're going to see a completely different skill set than what we saw at Iowa. Those are the things we don't know. We don't know what he was allowed to work on, what he has been working on, and what else is in the bag. And so that will be very interesting to see whether it's with the Pistons or somebody else if he can develop any of that stuff. Because you're right, what is the half-core offensive game? If that doesn't come, then he's essentially what, a pick-and-pop, off-ball cutter,

offensive rebound guy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then you got to be, he has to be unreal defensively, you know, to really be a major impact player then. And you obviously have questions, I think fairly and rightfully so, of what he can guard on that end of the floor. Yeah. Do you think, in your opinion, that the Pistons would be mulling, drafting of number five,

if they did not believe that he would improve as a half-course creator? Or, you know, if you believe that the chances weren't high, put it that way. Yeah, I think they have to believe. in it because if they draft him at number five, that means they're either passing up on Ivy or Ben Math. And I think those guys have shown more than he has. And so if they take Keegan Murray, I think you have to believe that there's going to be more and that he either has or is going to develop some of the stuff, the shortcomings we're talking about right now. Yeah, I would love to believe so too. I mean, I find myself unwilling to believe that they would make this pick without

feeling like he had a considerably, you know, could develop considerably better ability as as a half-core creator than he has right now. So another thing I want to ask, and listeners of the show know that I talk about this point constantly about the amount of athleticism and the piston should have in the starting lineup. You've already got Cade, who's, you know, a little bit of a below-average NBA athlete, Sadeek, who's below-average NBA athlete. And I feel like you're adding Kegan Murray, who's also at best an average half-core NBA athlete. Do you think that's another strike against him? Yeah, I mean, I think that's interesting.

I haven't thought about it a lot, but I have seen people bring up this point because, yeah, you could roll out a starting lineup with Cade, with Bay, with Murray, with Isaiah Stewart, and it's not the most athletic lineup, not the most explosive lineup. So then, you know, is that okay? Like, that's what I have to spend some more time thinking about and trying to see some examples of teams who have been able to be successful without some, you know, higher level top tier NBA athletes. And I think especially on the wing,

and whenever you look at Murray and Bay, who are kind of going to play in those roles, I do think you're a little bit limited there. And I think that could cause some issues defensively and then offensively as well, just putting pressure on the lane and on the rim. Yeah, do you remember that game early on in the season when it was still Cade and Killian as the starting back court?

And they played against the Cavaliers. And the Cavaliers absolutely ran circles around them. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, that one got out of hand. I remember that. Yeah, that was just awful. And that was the game that, for me, going into that year, I was like, man, you got forward really below average NBA athletes in starting lineup.

And Grant is the only one, the only really good NBA athletes. And, man, they ran circles around the pistons on offense. And the pistons could not get separation on defense. Excuse me, when the pistons were on offense, they could not get separation. So I would worry about that, too. Do you think that there would also be overlap between Murray and Bay in terms of? Yeah, I do think there is, but I don't think it's an issue to where, like, you're like, no, we can't bring in Kegan Murray.

And this isn't like completely ruling out fit because I do think fit is a question. You know, we talked about it with Jaden Ivy. If Jaden Ivy in an interview with Troy Weaver says, I want to be the on ball creator, that's a fit issue that is enough for me to pass him up for Benedict Matherin at that point. With Kagan, Murray, and Sadeek-Bay, yes, I do think there's some similarities there, but I do think you can have two of those guys on the team. The more interesting thing is, can you draft Keegan Murray, have Sadiq Bay, and extend and keep Jeremy Grant and have all three of those guys in the fold?

Oh, please no. It's all I have to say about that. You could, but oh, my goodness, please don't do that. That would be my reaction to it. I think that I just, I don't think that they would be likely to draft Murray if they're, I don't know. I think, well, I'll go up to the conference of that. I think they're much likelier to draft Murray

if they have a grant trade on the table somehow. Yeah, I agree. You know what's interesting, though, Mike, is if they trade Jeremy Grant and don't draft Keegan Murray, and I know that this team doesn't have to win a ton of games next year, so the roster doesn't have to be perfect, but who starts at the four in that scenario? Let's say they draft Jaden Ivy,

and then they trade Jeremy Grant at four. I mean, obviously it depends on the package. But, you know, are you a Sadiq Bay at the four guy? Because I'm actually okay with that. I would be comfortable with that. But I do think there's a scenario where all of a sudden you're like, okay, who's the starting four for this team? I don't know. Maybe Isaiah Livers. That's the only one who comes to mind. Of course, they could sign somebody. I don't even know who's there at Power Forward. What about like Marvin Bagley, the third? Where do you stand on him? I don't like that. I like him in the role. We saw him in most of last season. when he was playing with Detroit, but I know some people are really high on him.

I mean, if Marvin Bagley can really get it together, and I don't really have a ton of hope to this effect, if he can really, really get it together and he can become a good shooter, I think he's going to need to shoot no matter what in order to be a positive value player. And I think him playing center is now out of the question. I don't think he has the acumen for it on defense, and I don't think he can teach that. But if he can get his shot together and become like a half-decent,

a half-decent perimeter shooter and improve his creation around the basket, then, you know, who knows, I'm sure the Pistons would love to have their starting power forward the future. And that's also a very good scenario in that because he can run the role, you can keep Isaiah Stewart in the starting lineup. Yeah, no, and that's what, it's really interesting, it would be interesting to know like Troy Weaver's belief in Marvin Bagley developing the jump shot, in Isaiah Stewart developing the jump shot, and Killian Hayes developing the jump shot. Because your level of belief in those guys progressing in their game, areas in that specific area really determines a lot of decisions you make this off season,

in my opinion, because if those guys, if you have real belief in any one of those guys developing a jump shot, then you may not have to go spend some money on said free agent or bring in this guy in the draft. But if you don't think that's coming around, then it really changes your outlook and the future and what you need to go and acquire. What do you think are the chances or how confident are you in the possibility of Marvin Bagley becoming a genuine starter caliber power forward on a good team? Not very high. Yeah, me neither.

I think the Pistons would be thrilled if he turns into a good rotation player. They can play in the postseason. And they should because they traded Josh Jackson, Tray Liles, and a second round pick for him. And as long as the contract comes back, you know, good this year, you know, as long as it's not outlandish. You know, they don't get into bidding war because somebody else decides they want Marvin Bagley. And I think Marvin Bagley seemed to be very happy in his time in Detroit. I think that's a fine role and that's a really good trade that Troy Weaver made.

If that's quote unquote all he ends up being. Yeah, by low, definitely. And now a quick word from our sponsor. Hockey fans, the pursuit of the Stanley Cup is on and drafting sports book and official sports betting partner of the NHL as an unbelievable offer for the most exciting playoffs in sports. You're customers can bet $5 in any team to win and get $100 in free bets no matter what, win or lose. Looking to turn a small bet into a big payday during the playoffs, but Drive King's same game parlay as you can do just that.

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That's code T-BPN at Drafking Sportsbook and official sports betting partner. or the NHO. They have a major eligibility restriction supplies. He's show notes for details. All right. So let's move on to eggs Benedict, I guess, is the best name I've been able to invent for him,

unfortunately. Come back to me like in a few weeks and I'll have something better. I don't even know what eggs Benedict are. Like, I keep hearing it. Like, I feel like I've never had Eggs Benedict. So it's English muffins with, with, I don't know what, I think.

Egg Over Easy and ham and Hollandeau sauce, which is like this incredibly thick artery clogging sauce. It's an incredibly fatty dish, but it really tastes good. Okay, so I'm getting a little older. My blood pressure is a little bit high. It's in the jeans. Thank you, Mom and Dad. And so I better just stay away from the eggs Benedict.

I'll stick with my scrambled eggs. My kids tell me I make some mean scrambled eggs. Absolutely. That's a good dish to have in your repertoire. So Benedict Mathrin, what's your favorite thing about him? You said that he's your favorite prospect, not necessarily for the pistons. but of the three of them your favorite prospect. Yeah, he's probably my favorite prospect in the draft of all the guys I scouted.

Other than Jabari Smith Jr., I thought Benedict Batherin showed the most intensity and aggressiveness on the defensive end. And it's interesting because I know people will come back at me and say they don't like his defense. Off the ball, there are definitely some questions. Don't get me wrong. I just saw some possessions on the ball. I saw some games, some halves, the TCU game in the NCAA tournament, where he just had this attitude about him that I love.

That along with the absolutely smooth athleticism that he possesses, and I'm kind of a sucker for that, maybe because I'm such a bad athlete. But I really enjoy watching him play, and I really believe in his skill set and what he's going to be able to continue to progress and be able to do in the NBA. Yeah, I love his intensity also. I mean, the guys just got a sort of passion to him that seems like he comes through on every play.

I mean, the fit, I would say, you have said, in fact, with Cade, it just also seems like it would be so good. Yeah, I mean, I think the all-around fit, you know, from his mentality, right? Like the Detroit, the go to work, you know, grind it out, you know, all of that stuff. That's Benedict Matherin. Like, he would encompass what the city, what the organization wants. You know, Troy Weaver talks about that, you know, what being a Detroit Pist. I think Benedict Matherin fits all that stuff better than any other prospect we've talked about.

And then the fit specifically next to Cade Cunningham. He's going to guard the other team's best perimeter player. So Cade doesn't have to do it. He can catch and shoot. He doesn't demand the ball, but he can offer some secondary creation. And so I just, he's a good off ball cutter. He's a good offensive rebounder. I just think he's a great fit.

Yeah, absolutely agree. I mean, he brings a lot that the starting lineup doesn't yet have. I mean, yeah, high volume, but good shooting on high volume. He can make some difficult shots. He can, he's got that great combination of that. athleticism. I mean, the ability to to gain quick separation and then shoot from around screens. And yeah, definitely an amazing all-ball mover. I mean, he's a great vertical space or two for six foot four and a half. It's a very impressive. Yeah, we talk about Jaden Ivy's athleticism.

It's obviously a different kind of athleticism. Ben doesn't have the first step explosiveness, you know, any of that stuff. But Ben can elevate, man. Like he can get up and there's some highlight real poster putbacks, you know, off the dribble. back doors, those type of things. To me, Ben Math has a really high floor, but there's a ceiling that I don't think he gets enough credit for. If the movement shooting, which I do think can be real, Mike, like he looks very comfortable running off screens in transition, the stuff you're talking about, if that is true and he continues to develop his creation, which he got better at throughout his sophomore season at Arizona, now you're talking about a true number two option next to Cade Cunningham.

Yeah, the way I see it, so in the NCAA, like you actually have to guard Benedict Mathrim pretty closely because he can get off a shot with very little space. And I mean, then there's also his lift on motion threes, which is great. Yes. Yeah, but just when he has the ball, and he was not a bad pull-up three-point shooter aside from taking some really ill-advised shots. So I feel like the only thing that's really holding him back from being very dangerous is the ability. And, you know, the guy's guarding him closely. It means he can get by him more quickly. is just that ability to put the ball on the floor

and score at the rim at a decent rates because he can also make the right pass if help comes. So I feel like that could be a very good player. Yeah, he's a fine decision maker for what you're going to ask him to do. Like he's not making high level read. Don't expect him to do what Cade Cunningham

and even what Killian Hayes does. He's not going to do those type of things, but he makes the right decisions for what an NBA team will ask him to do. I agree that the handle has to get better. I wish I had to, you asked me this earlier, earlier about Keegan Murray. I wish I kind of had a better understanding and feel for how easily or hard it is for guys to develop that once they get to the NBA. I just, I haven't been around

the NBA game enough to know. You know, I played college basketball at a fairly high level, so I understand it there. But I don't know what kind of, you know, next steps and next levels guys have to be able to get to have that at the NBA level and how common it is for them to really improve upon that. So what do you think about this? I mean, my opinion is that, like, I wouldn't compare his handle to that of Keegan Murray. I mean, I think he's far ahead of Keegan Murray. Agreed. I think it's that he can handle it. It's just his ability to score at the rim when he gets there. It's like he doesn't have that sort of handle after he elevates, like, you know, when he elevates or just, it's just a matter of how, yeah, how creative he can get

and still score around the rim, and especially through contact. But, yeah, there are also situations, though, definitely I saw it through at multiple times through his tape, excuse me, at Arizona in his sophomore year, of course, where he was being guarded closely, but he did not put the ball on the floor. Yeah, like, he was being guarded very closely. Like, it should have been fairly easy for him. Yeah, and I don't know if it's a mentality thing, if it was the office, like another thing, we give Jayon Ivy, I don't know what the right word is.

I don't want to say a pass. We talk a lot about Jayon Ivy and the role. he was in at Purdue with the two bigs and the office. Arizona ran two bigs out there a lot as well. And so the floor wasn't always extremely space for him either. And I know we can do this with every college player. You know, you want to talk about Bryce McGowan. Well, at Nebraska, you know, a real bucket guy that, you know, is going to go somewhere

in the first round. Most like, well, he played on an awful team. So he gets a pass. You know, I don't want to do that for every player. But I did, I do like to mention that here that Benedict Mathron wasn't exactly playing on a space floor. either. You know, Christian Coloco was always, you know, one of those big, two of those three bigs were always on the floor. And that takes up space in the lane. Yeah. I mean, there is the, I think a valid

knock against him in terms of his mid-range, just his in-between game. Yeah. I'm not, sure if he's really going to get there in that capacity. But maybe for the kind of, the kind of style he plays, he doesn't necessarily need it. Yeah. I mean, again, I think that's when you're talking about like a true number two score, you know, get to 20 to 25 points a game. It's the movement threes. If he can make movement threes, then maybe he can make some one, two, dribble pull up stuff. You know, so like those are the type of things. Those are, you know, those other skills that are going to take him to a level that that far exceeds even being drafted at number five. I just think he does so many things well without having to do those things that he's

still going to be a very impactful NBA player. Yeah, I think he's, I think he's got, like you said, I think, I agree. He's got a much higher ceiling than a lot of people are giving him credit for. And also, I mean, he was asked to do a lot of the handling in Arizona. Like a lot, he was asked to do an enormous amount of the work there. And it's, it's been brought up. And I think this might have validity that some of his struggles maybe on defense could be late at the feet of just how much he was being asked to do on offense. Yeah. And I think as much as maybe we don't want to admit, there's a lot of truth to that. Like, I personally, for me, I thought, Cade Cunningham defensively struggled a little bit later in the year compared to what we saw

early in the year. And I think it was because of the offensive load he was asked to carry. Now, Cade was a rookie. He's going to come back in better shape and stronger and, you know, all of those things. This isn't a huge knock on Cade. I'm just saying that when you're having to carry that type of offensive load, that it can impact what you're able to do on the boards defensively and everything else. Yeah, on the board's another thing where Matherin's fairly strong for his position. But yeah, you're not many guys who are able to carry an enormous defensive load, rather, and also do great on defense.

Like LeBron James, who's one of the greatest, most talented athletes in the history of the world, was able to do that for a long time. He was able to be absolutely a man on offense and be a perennial all-defense guy. But even for him, that ran out when he got into his 30s. So, yeah, for any player, that's definitely a tall order. Yeah, and that's why I, again, that's why I like Benedict Mathrin with Kate. So Kay is going to take that, right? Benedict Mathisans is not going to have to do all those things offensively.

Cade is going to make his life easy offensively, and now Matherin's going to be able to use that intensity, that aggressiveness, that mentality that I believe he has and use it on the defensive end because he'll have more energy from not having to do all those things on the offensive end. Are you worried about his defense? Do you think that the mistakes that he all, often made at Arizona where the product of poor IQ or just things that can be coached out of his game. I'm not worried about his on-ball defense at all, Mike. Defend off-ball, I do have some concerns.

The ball watching, getting away from shooters, losing those guys was concerning. And again, I'm just not positive. I believe that stuff makes huge strides in the NBA. So if you wanted to knock him and be worried about his off-ball defense throughout his entire career, I would have have a hard time pushing back against you. Yeah, but you think that's an acceptable weakness. Yeah, I mean. As far as what he could provide elsewhere, like during the postseason, do you think he would be a liability on defense, for example?

No, no, I don't think he's a liability. Like, we're talking about like, you know, one time of game, he gets a little bit too far off a shooter and helps a little bit too much or gets flare screened or maybe he plays in the passing lane a little too much and gets back door. Like, it wasn't like constant where it's like, oh my gosh, you can't play this guy. It was just some subtle little things where it's like, man, like,

you're guarding a 38% three-point shooter. You've got to know the flare screen's coming type of stuff. The same stuff happened to Jaden Ivy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Ivy definitely had his struggles. And yeah, I think, I mean, I have a fairly, like not super high, but I think he's going to be a guy who can defend those quick guards on ball that Cade might have a little bit more trouble with.

And now, I feel like he's going to be a capable. enough defender. Yeah, and you really want to have those, absolutely, like, I'm completely enamored with the idea of the Pistons having really a five-man switchable sort of offense. I think Matherin's going to continue to get stronger, maybe not quite as good as the Celtics, who had like five beefy guys, five strong guys they could send out there. But I think fairly well of his defensive potential, not elites, but I think he'll be a plus defender. Yeah, and that's what, so, so the Celtics came up earlier when we were talking about the athleticism stuff. Are they an example of a team who maybe isn't like packed with these high-level athletes

that were able to be really successful? Hmm, so stuff is a little weird. Robert Williams is obviously very athletic. Yes, yes. Jaywin Brown is quite athletic. Tatum, I'd say is a plus athlete. Smart, maybe neutral. And Horford is Horford, of course.

They did, I mean, they really ran a system that was based on kind of like egalitarian ball handling and prolific ball movements. So it was a little bit unusual. And I think that ameliorated, maybe, I don't think that they were a minus athletic lineup, but put it that way. I think, I think that their, I think their issue is more just if, if Tatum and Brown weren't able to go out and get a bucket and do it well, their offense was going to have problems because

the other three guys didn't really have much agency at all. Sure. No, I just, I was trying to think of examples when you asked me, you know, like if you had Kagan Murray Bay, K, like this, you know, neutral athletes, maybe a little bit below average athletes for the NBA game. I realize they're unreal athletes compared to normal people like us. Yeah, obviously. But I was like, I was trying to think of a team.

And so I was like, the Warriors don't even count because Steph Curry and, you know, the skill level of different things. And obviously, Andrew Wiggins is a huge big time athlete. But I was thinking about the Celtics, like, okay, you know, where would Tatum rank? Where would Jaylen Brown rank? Marcus Smart. So like, would that be an example like that you could point to and say, hey, like, those guys aren't like super high level top tier athletes and they were able to have success?

Well, I'd say if you have two guys, particularly two guys out in the wing who can... Yes. Yeah, who can just take the ball and get you a bucket with it. That can ameliorate a lot of problems with your offense. Absolutely. But I think the Celtics just kind of ran out of steam as the best of the playoffs went on and the, or as the finals were on, and the Warriors just were so deep. And like you said, the Warriors are the Warriors.

That team is like the number one example of a walking exception in the history, the NBA. Like no rules apply to them. Well, because they have Steph Curry who creates all these problems. Then you have Draymond Green, who I know people don't like Draymond Green, but he's the perfect fit because if you want to blitz and trap Steph Curry, then Draymond Green's going to take advantage of that most of the time. And then you have another unreal shooter in Clay Thompson. And then obviously Jordan Poole came around.

And I think Andrew Wiggins was the perfect example of a player in the right role, in the right system, and how successful you can be when you're in that. Andrew Wiggins is never winning an NBA championships as the number one option. Or number two. Yeah. But in the role he was in with this Golden State Warriors team, you had a lot of people arguing he was the second best player in that series for the Warriors, not in total, maybe totality.

I don't know. But it's because he was in the right role for him and his skill set. And he accepted it, Mike. He accepted that role of, I'm going to go grab 16 rebounds. You know, I'm going to be the primary. defender on Tatum and Brown. And he flourished and look what the reward was. Yeah, definitely.

And I mean, I got to give credit to Steve Kerr as well, who I think is in his, and it was the perfect coach for this team and has been game changing in certain ways. It has really been played, I think, a major role in the evolution of the NBA we've seen since, you know, from that Warriors 2015 playoff run on. So, yeah. So let's move on to other draft stuff. So we know about the possibility of a Jeremy Grant trade. and we have no idea what that would net the pistons if it happens.

And you, of course, have done a great deal of research on guys throughout the top 20 more than I have. I think this has to be said about Bryce before he does a prospect review on anybody he watches five full games, which I think is, to say the least, above and beyond dedication to mastering the craft before putting out any opinion. So let's say the Pistons get like, oh, I'll ask you first, what do you? you think the Pistons could like it was the best the Pistons could glean as far as trap position from a grant trade okay so I really believe the best we're going to see for Jeremy Grant is a mid first round pick plus you know whether it's a young player or something like that I don't think number seven with the Blazers you know I don't think that's

going to happen you know so I'm looking late lottery you know or like say anywhere in the mid teens there you know you know what 13 through 17 18, something like that, plus a little bit extra. Okay. And who would be your favorite guys for the Pistons to take, assuming availability in that range? I mean, I don't think he's going to be there. I really like Dyson Daniels.

He's a player I really like. I think he's going to end up going much higher than that. I don't think people are going to like this. I like Jaden Hardy, Mike. I do. I think he's a bucket in the NBA. The defense isn't great, but I think Jordan Clark,

Clarkson, excuse me, is an easy, like it's almost an overused comp, but I think that's the kind of role Jaden Hardy could have. Just come out the bench, get buckets. And I do think that that can be useful in the league. So he's a guy, I wouldn't mind in that area. And then Tari Isson, I don't love him at like top 10. But if you're talking about a Jeremy Grant trade and now you're getting pick 15 or 16, I really like Tari Easton in that range.

What do you think about Easton in particular? I want to hear about your opinion on Daniels as well, but what do you think his ceiling is? Like, I know, like, it's real easy with guys like this, but, you know, maybe a slightly broken shot that are super athletic and play good defense to say, man, this guy could be Kauai Lerner. I don't think that's going to happen. But do you think he's a guy who has a conceivably high ceiling on offense in the NBA?

I think he can be an NBA starter. Like, I don't think, I don't see Kauai Leonard, you know, that type of stuff. Amari actually brought it up, like maybe he could be like a general. me Grant type role. Like the shot is kind of funny, but the percentage isn't bad. I think he can be a good catch and shoot guy. He's not going to be a movement shooter because of the way the shot is. You know, I think he's a guy that can catch and attack closeouts. Like he got to the rim a lot, drew a lot of fouls, not a ton of wiggle, but like just straight line drive, play through contact, those type of things. And so, and then defensively, he does have the ability to guard and be a plus

on that end as well. So I think he, as a ceiling, he's a guy that maybe you could end up starting, you know, at the four. Let's say, this is probably an unlikely scenario, but let's say Jalen Duren fell to 13 and the Pistons had that pick. Yes. You'd be interested? Yes.

At 13, absolutely. Yeah. What do you see Jalen Dern projecting as in the NBA? I mean, I know we, I think we agree on his defensive potential. Do you think the offense will come around? So that's the question mark, right? Mike. I don't know that I believe in it as much.

as others. And that's why I was quick to say yes at 13. If you would have said seven, I probably would have pushed back a little bit, you know, because I don't know that I saw all the offensive skills that get talked about with Jalen Durner. Like I, if you watch the Houston game, the passing is unreal. But as you just mentioned, I watch five full games throughout the course of a season. I pick out specific games, beginning, middle, end, you know, so it's not all bunched up. and I didn't see it a whole lot outside of that game. The shot, I don't know. I mean, he's obviously, but the thing is, he's going to be a lot of threat.

He's going to have gravity because he's going to screen, roll to the rim. And if you don't tag him or stay with him, he's going to catch a lob and dunk it on you. Yeah. Would you have any concerns about, like my concern for him on offenses, particularly in the postseason, where he, you know, in certain scenarios, just if you, well, my two concerns, I would say. in the postseason when things slowed down, like I feel like at the in the NCAA,

Duren could kind of have his motor sputter out a bit when he wasn't involved and when it just wasn't constant situations when he was running on the roll. And my other one, like his touch around the rim seems kind of bad. I worry about kind of the drum and scenario and God,

I hate saying that name, but I worry about the drum and scenario in that you have a guy who can run the role in a pretty strong level and can catch lobs. But he's a traditional, center who can't be efficient because he's got really bad toucher on the basket and he's a bad free throw shooter. Yeah, I believe, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I don't, the non-dunk

Al-A-oop numbers aren't very good with Jalen Dern. Like if you just look like at true layups. 53%. Yeah. So like he definitely has to get better there. There's not much of a post game. You know, you can put him in the dunker spot to sell him get offensive rebounds and those type of things.

I think with him, it's really, do you buy the shooting? Do you buy the short? passing. And the other thing, we talked about age earlier with Keegan Murray, you know, Jalen Duren's like only 18. He's one of the youngest players in the draft, even though, you know, he played, you know, this past season at Memphis. So, you know, there may still, I know that's a big positive with him or upside with him is that he's a young player that may develop more. And I do want to say, I definitely have in my notes the quote unquote motor questions. There were times where I would have liked to see a little bit more there and thought it was lacking.

Yeah. So let's get to Dyson Daniels, who I know has really been the breakout stars, so to speak, at the pre-draft process. Yeah, he rose up draft boards, and I was excited when I finally, I studied him and Jaden Hardy at the same time. Okay, really good passer, really good in those situations, using ball screens. Scoring is a little bit of a question mark. There's a little bit of Killian Hayes, there, in my opinion. I think he drives to pass. He doesn't drive to score. The main difference is you saw enough from the floater that I really buy into that. The shot is probably the X factor, right? Like there's been talk that it's gotten better and improved since the G League season wasn't over. And then defensively, he's really, really good. I heard all about his defense leading up to my

breakdown. And so sometimes you walk away less impressed whenever it's been built up. And that definitely wasn't the case. I was impressed as I watched the film. How do you think he compares defensively to, but I would say the other two defensive prizes the draft who are Sohan and Eason? He's not as strong as those guys, so I don't think the switchability is as there with him because he's not going to switch out on big.

Like those guys, you know, they're going to hold up against five, maybe fives? What do you think? Sohan, I would say, has a shot at it. Jeremy, for sure. Tari has the, to get a little bit bigger. And then obviously those guys can be switchable the other way.

Daniels, I think you're just guarding on the perimeter. Yeah. Do you think two through four? You think he'll be able to. I mean, my concern with them is the same as it is with Killian. I mean, Killian really struggles. I think he gets explosive guards. Do you think that Dyson would be more versatile in that respect?

No, I can see that because I had some questions with his closeouts. I didn't think he was real good when he was put in those disadvantaged situations having to close out and it wasn't quite as good. Now, navigating ball screens, those type of things, just staying in front of isolations, that's a little bit better. But, you know, those quicker guards you're talking about, they're going to be able to create advantages, like whenever you're having to close out.

And so I think two and threes for sure, maybe fours as he gets a little bit stronger. Yeah, so what do you see as is fit with the best? And it's like, you know, just to ask first, my guess would be that he's probably not available in the teens. Do you think he goes before that? I do. I mean, I think some of the buzz has to be real.

So I would be surprised if he gets past 10. I think the wizards would jump all over him at 10 if he's still there. Yeah, but assuming, let's say a deposit a scenario in which he does, he is available if the pistons have a second pick and they're picking. What do you see is his fit on the pistons next to Kate coming in? And I'm starting a line up in general. Okay. So if he starts, like I think the shot, right?

I talked about it earlier kind of as the X factor. That has to be there. It's the same thing as killing. I really do see a lot of similarities between him and Killian Hayes and their game. And so, you know, it's the same thing with Killian. You've got to be able to knock down shots because Cade's going to have the ball in his hands a lot.

What I like about it, Mike, is now Dyson can probably take the other team's primary perimeter player on the defensive end. Cade doesn't have to do that. Some secondary creation. I do think he was a good offensive rebounder. So he will be able to do some things offensively, but he's got to be able to catch and shoot and knock those down. What do you think about his potential as an on-ball creator?

I don't think he does it in true isolations, but you give him a ball screen and I like that. He didn't pressure the rim as much as I would have liked. And again, I think he's going to have to develop in the same way. Killeen Hayes needs to, like whenever I drive, I'm driving to score the ball first. And then if I attract the defense, I'll make a play. He almost drives with the intention of, okay, I'm going to create for my teammates.

and I think he's got to get better of that. I will say the floater, I buy the floater game from Dyson Daniels. I think that is true. So just real quick before we finish, what do you think about the International Man of Mystery, Shaden Sharp, who I feel like is really, it seems like he's dropped out of the Pistons range. I mean, it seems like it's down to the three we discussed before. But let's say, you know, crazy situation, the Pistons end up picking him.

What do we do? You know, what do you think about him? Oh, man. I would be excited because he's in, unknown, right? He's a mystery, but I have a hard time with it because he's the one guy haven't really been able to watch film on. I watch all the film on Paulo and Chet and Jabari and Ben and Keegan and all these guys. And I know that you can go find some high school films, but I don't even know how to evaluate that, Mike. Like I don't even have an

understanding of what am I watching? And that's partly my fault in being new to this NBA draft analyst game. But so I haven't even really done it. I've just relied on what other people people have told me. And I guess at that point, I'm just going to trust that Troy Weaver knows what he's doing. I also think it speaks to what they think they're going to be able to do this season, because I don't know that Shaden Sharp is going to come in and be, you know, an instant in his rookie season, you know, difference maker. And that doesn't mean he can't be in three years, but I don't know how much you're getting from him in year one. The kid hasn't played in how long, you know? Yeah, it's been a while.

So it's going to be tough for him in his rookie season. Yeah, I was in the same boat in terms of his draft research on the guy. I did a bunch of small prospect, you know, short prospect reviews after it turned out to be like the big six, which is the top three. And then the other thing of the three we think the business are likely to be choosing from. I didn't even do Shaden because it's like I have nowhere near enough data to actually have, to actually draw an accurate picture of him, a little bit frustrating, be honest. And he certainly did not do his best at all to provide any additional data to anybody. Yeah.

And what's interesting with that now, Mike, is has that been Shaden? Or what you're starting to hear or I'm starting to hear is that maybe that is his agent, his quote unquote, handlers that Shaden is a very quiet and shy kid. And these people have taken, I don't want to say taking advantage of him in a bad way, but they're kind of controlling the narrative. and Shaden's starting to get a bad rap for not working out, not practicing at Kentucky, etc. When really he was just taking the advice of these people

and he's kind of a quiet, shy, not super assertive kid. And so he just, you know, kind of did what he was told. Yeah, that's possible. I mean, it's a situation basically. I mean, I'm sure they were looking at the BJ Boston situation. And it's like, okay, well, this is a weak draft. You're going to be highly rated. You can go back to school and risk playing poorly

and dropping and going into next year's draft, which is much stronger than going low. Or you can just not play and go in. And I got to say it made sense what he did. It was just really irritating. No, and I'm not trying to fault him or his handlers. Like, you know, his agent, I don't know if handlers is the right word. Like their goal is to get him drafted as high as possible and make as much money as possible.

Like that is their goal. And they've probably been successful because Jaden Hardy's another example. He's going to, I don't know that he's going to be a lottery pick. He's probably not. Somewhere in the 20s is probably Jaden Hardy. So he probably cost himself money by going and playing in the G league this past season. And he had inefficient numbers. It got better throughout the season.

But I don't blame Shaden Sharp or his family or anybody making decisions. You have to be selfish in these situations and do what's best for Shaden Sharp. Like I don't blame him at all. Yeah. It's just frustrating, like you say, because we want to analyze this kid and we don't have the data to do it. Yeah, definitely. So I'll just ask you this question, just to conclude. So if the draft goes as you think it does, who do you think the Pistons pick will be? Keegan Murray. Keegan Murray. Ouch. It pains my heart to hear you say that. I'm going to, I'm going to go with the hope,

and I'm going to carry the hope and say Benedict Mathur and assume he's gone it for. Yes, I don't know, maybe I'm trying to do the reverse psychology or whatever it is here. I've just, I don't know, Omari and West have just beaten into my head so much. Maybe I've just caved. I like Ben, Benedict Mathrin so much, Mike. I hope that's who they pick. I got so juiced. I was listening to Game Theory podcast, and Sam Bassini took him in his little mock draft with Matt Penny,

and I got so excited about it. And I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but I will definitely be excited if that's who they end up taking. We're hearing good things, maybe. We hear good things about how much he's in play with the pistons, yeah. I say the betting odds of like, people, tweeting me this morning. Like the betting odds have moved a bunch for him to the Pistons. So maybe we're speaking it into existence.

I hope so. All right, Bryce, want to thank you for joining us. It's been a pleasure. So we got, once again, it's Bryce Simon from Motor City Hoops, Detroit Bad Boys,

The Pistons Pulse podcast. Check out his content on YouTube on DBB. And yeah, we've about 48 hours to draft. It's finally here. Almost here, Mike. Thank you so much. I had a blast doing this.

I hope the listeners enjoyed it. And I hope we can do it again. Absolutely. Me too. So as always, folks, thanks you for listening. Catch you in the next episode.