Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 132: Playoffs?!

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

News has it that the organization has ardent hopes of making the playoffs next season. What route could the Pistons follow to get there?

Welcome back, everybody you're listening to Drive into the Basket, part of the basketball podcast network. I am Mike, your host, recording this right after the Pistons, managed to lose another game of the Dallas Mavericks. Muka Dunch, which is a very impressive player. Some guys in the Pistons didn't show up. And kind of a frustrating for me not particularly enjoyable game to watch. Nonetheless, you know, it's another loss on Brutes to hopefully a high position. in the draft lottery. So this is, of course, second and the last episode before the trade deadline, that deadline

being on the ninth, which would be next Thursday. That would mean, you know, about 24 hours after, actually probably about 36 hours after next week's episode would post. So might release that on Monday or Tuesday. We'll see. In any case, so news I'll talk about today, it came out from. Actually, has come out from multiple sources, including reliable sources. There are a lot of unreliable sources out there.

But, yeah, we hear this one from James Edwards and I don't remember who else, but that the Pistons really, the organization really wants to go on to not really pivot, but really hopes to be in a playoff picture next year, not just the plans, but the actual playoffs. So just going to talk a bit about what it would take to get there. You know, how can the Pistons get there from this train wreck of a roster that, they are this season. You know, it's a strong conference. You know, how are you going to realistically become better than, well, I guess you're

only becoming better than seven teams, but there are really very few bad teams in the Eastern conference. You've got the strong teams, of course, and the Celtics, the Bucks, the Sixers, I mean, the nets are real good. The Cavaliers are really a team on an upward trajectory. The heat you can never count out. And, you know, then you've got the Knicks who are kind of so-so, the Hawks whose future seems endlessly nebulous. And one thing I was thinking about when I was watching the game tonight

was that, man, they absolutely lost that Luca trade. I mean, we all know how special player Luca is and in a way that that Tray Young cannot match. And of course, the consolation prize for Atlanta at Dorby. Really, the other piece of that deal was the pick that became Cam Reddish. Nebless to say that did not turn out particularly well for the Hawks. If I remember correctly, even the return for reddish for the Hawks was a protected pick from the Knicks via the Hornets who ended up missing the playoffs as a result of which that pick I believe was actually Jalen Duren was either him or Mark Williams and of course Duren that was traded to the Pistons and that three-way trade between Hornets and the Knicks and the Pistons so whatever the case moving on from

that I mean the Hawks are always just the giant question mark there but and then you've got up and comers like the magic who are looking very promising this season. You got the Pacers who seem to be on an upper trajectory as well. Of course, you've got to hope that Miles Turner stays healthy in that situation. He's still tradable, by the way. He could be traded at the deadline. His extension is not subject to the six-month moratorium just because of how it was structured.

And, you know, you've got Halliburton over there. You've got Ben Mathuron, who I think would be a good player. And you've got ownership that really doesn't like to be out of the playoffs. The Pacers have been kind of their own sort of treadmill team for a while, just losing early on in the playoffs. And then the Raptors, I mean, you can never really count the Raptors out. So my point in going over all of this, you know, even the Hornets, like, who knows, I mean, there was talk that they're going to bring Miles Bridges back on a reasonable deal.

Who knows if they really have the requisite lack of shame. But we'll see. But, I mean, my point is that there is a lot of competition in the East for a playoffs. spot and I think it'll stay that way. Who knows what will happen with the Bulls? I mean, there's a, the case to be made that they should blow it up next season. We'll see. Again, boils down to ownership and the Bulls ownership is pretty questionable. And the Wizards are a treadmill team, but they're a treadmill team that can compete for the playoffs. So what is it going to take then for the Pistons to become like a real playoff team in a conference in which, you know, next season,

it wouldn't be entirely outside of the realm of possibility to have 15 teams that are all trying to compete for the playoffs. I mean, just looking at these standings, I mean, it could get a bit crazy next season. Usually you have at least a tanker or two, and that could be the bulls. I doubt it, but it could be the bulls. But, I mean, you could legitimately have 15 teams like zero rebuilders, zero like genuine rebuilders. Because the Hornets, even if they don't get bridges, I mean, say they get a really good player in this upcoming draft, they'll probably be back in the mix. So you got four routes, as I see it. And I'll talk about those four routes about how you can improve. And distance might utilize all of those. They might utilize one of those. And I guess you

never really know what's going to happen in the off season. Number one, this is the simplest. Get a new coach. You guys don't need to listen to me to talk about Dwayne Casey anymore, but I'll just repeat very, very briefly what I said. I hope, because he seems like a good dude who's really good with the players and so on and so forth, I hope he moves into a front office role to which front office role to which he is suited in the offseason that the Pistons bring on a coach who is better equipped to make optimal use of his players and win in today's NBA. I'm not castigating Casey for not winning a lot of games with the current roster. However, I'd say the two things, you know, can exist concurrently that he can be a bad coach

and at the same time, the distance have a bad roster. and again, long history of Dwayne Casey's shortcomings as an NBA head coach. So replace the coach. I kind of feel like it's 50-50 shot. I've been, I've heard. I think it was when I had Omari Sancova was a guest in the show while back and said that he thought, or maybe it was on Twitter. I'm pretty sure it was he who said this though that they actually wanted to give Casey a shot

at coaching, you know, it coaching the team when it was further developed. He said that he thought that Casey would be coaching through that one-year extension that he received that would bring him through next season. Hope it's not the case. I think that would be a very bad idea. But we'll see. But replacing Dwayne Casey with a better coach, that's one way to get better. Number two, and this is kind of a boring one. Also, almost certainly the most essential one for the Pistons, that is development.

We all hope that Cable come back next season and we'll get on that superstar track that so many of us believe. that he is capable of being on for a long time. He's got some stuff that, who knows how much his injury was hurting him this year. I mean, he was disappointed to come in and see him still having trouble shooting threes. I mean, he's got to be able to shoot threes, and I think he will be able to, I think he'll be a guy who's also able to shoot pull-up threes. Like, I could go on and on about Cade. I think he'll be a strong three-level score.

It was extremely difficult to guard and very good at setting up teammates. So, you know, Cade, I think, is the number one piece of that puzzle. I'm very confident in his development. You go beyond that to Jaden Ivy. I've said it before. I'll say it again. I think it's going to take Jaden some time to really get it together. It's been a rocky, rookie season.

And I think you'll see some improvement next year. I think he will probably not come fully online, so to speak, until his third season. I'd be glad to be proven wrong. The guys really get a lot of things to work on it, just in terms of, you know, forgive me, if you've heard this already, but in terms of his shooting, of course, We know that. He's pretty inconsistent three-point shooter with a pretty sole release and questionable mechanics. He needs to refine his drive game. He just gets collapsed on now and he can't make it to the basket. And driving should be his bread and butter with how athletic he is and how I would imagine the pistons envisioned using him when he was drafted.

So he's got to work on that. I mean, go back and watch his college tape so much of this scoring off the drive was just him beating guys, beating bad NCAA defenders with his athleticism. I call them bad NCAA defenders because compared to the average NBA defender, the average NCAA defender is comically bad. But in any case, I mean, his go-to move in the NCAA was taking the pole, turning on the afterburners, just turning the corner to the right on a sole NCAA defender, blitzing to the basket, and scoring at the rim before the rim protection to get there. It doesn't work in the NBA. He's got to work on that.

He's got to work in his passing, making those right reads and passes. And he's been improving at that. And tonight, to his credits, I mean, he was really taking advantage of the fact that when he, you know, when he jets in there, whether he does it from on or off the ball, he's going to track the tension. And he was throwing these bullet passes that were pretty accurate, so good for him. And then just his overall decision-making. And that's something that some players need to learn. Some players come in with a very good decision-making.

Other players just need to learn. And his defense. I mean, his defense has been terrible. There's no doubting that. that, and hopefully that's just a matter of development, too. Jalen Duren, of course, another important piece, I think, has high defensive upside, and on offense can be just a strong role man. He's got surprisingly good hands as far as, not surprising, whatever.

He's got good hands as far as catching the ball. He's a vertical spacing threat. He's a strong dunker, has to work on his layups, though lately he's barely even need to lay up the ball at all. And, yeah, on defense, got to work on his decision-making, got to work in his reads. And he's been weird about switch defense. Like at Memphis, he was able to get into a low stance and really move his feet well. He's generally been trying to stay with guys while standing upright.

And it hasn't really been going too well for him on switches. But I think he'll get there. So a guy, I think, could be one of the best defensive centers in the league, and capable of big man things on offense. Also, maybe unlock that passing. Or excuse me, traditional center things. Maybe unlock that passing as well. And who knows, maybe there's a jumper in there.

He deflash some of that, especially off the short roll of Memphis. None of that is being used, not the passing, not the possible jumper, not the short roll at all. Say what you will about that. It doesn't exactly surprise me. I mean, the coach he's playing under is not really one to make use of all the assets of his players, whether or not, you know, you think that you should be trying those things with a player like Duren, you know, at Duren's age. Casey is just is not going to make the maximum use of, or maximum use rather, of all the assets of his players. It's just how it is. You go down to the three guys from the 2020 draft.

It's possible that all three of them will end up being bench players. That's Killian A, Sadiq Bay and Isaiah Stewart. Sadiq, of course, has been the most flummoxing thing about this season. Just absolutely confusing what's happened there. his defense has gone from serviceable to absolutely terrible. He's just found himself in between, apparently in his own mind, it seems just, there's a lot of indecision, just being in between two roles, like wanting to create and then needing to shoot.

And he does so much better when he's just focusing on shooting. But I know he was a guy whom many of us saw as a future long-term starter, and now that's in out. Isaiah, I believe, is destined to be a long-term bench player with the Pistons. I hope he's a Piston for a long time because I love his character and I think he'll be able to contribute. I do not think that he's the power for to the future by any means. But though it may have been kind of fun to see T. and Duren playing together, they haven't been a good duo. And I think Isaiah really suffers when he's forced to play Power 4, particularly against starters. Even when he's hitting his threes, like hitting your threes and attacking some closeouts is.

is like the bare minimum that you have to do as a perimeter, that your average perimeter player is asked to do rather. And on defense, you just has trouble covering ground, can't play weak side room defense and so on and so forth. So probably a long-term bench player. Hope he's in the team for a while. But yeah, probably a long-term bench player. And Killian Hayes, I think is on trajectory to be hopefully,

hopefully, and this will hinge upon his shooting, remaining reliable enough, and him becoming considerably more willing, and he has been doing so lately. I should note that, while doing so improving in this respect, but being willing to attack the basket and eventually hopefully able

also to score at the rim. But I think he could be on a trajectory to becoming a solid backup point card in the NBA. Now, what do you think about having the number seven, the number 16, and the number 19 picks and not getting a single starter out of them?

I don't think that's ideal. You can say, yeah, well, it's super nice. You know, if you have those three picks and you get three rotation players out of it. At the same time, you only have so many guys who are going to be playing for you off the bench. But who knows, maybe you got some,

maybe one of them is a trade asset. You have Isaiah Livers. I don't think Livers is going to develop in a much more than he is. I think he'll just be a reliable role player off the bench. You know, makes good decisions on both ends and hopefully you can shoot threes at a high percentage. And, you know, then you've got a couple of guys.

Kevin Knox, who may or may not be on the team next season. season. Knox has been pretty unimpressive. You know, he's had some decent stretches, but, you know, for the most part, a low-impact player who kind of struggles on defense and pretty limited on offense, which is a shame because he's got really good size. He's got good sizes. He's got good athleticism. He's got a decent stroke from three. He just doesn't strike me as a very intelligent player by NBA standards. And then finally, Hamidu Diolo, and if we've been listening to the show for a while, you know what I think Hamida could be if he can shoot.

If he can't shoot, then, you know, depth player on a bad team. That would be huge if he became a shooter. I don't even know if he's going to be on the team next season, though. So anyway, this is just development. Development is probably, it's arguably the number one most important thing for the business at this point.

It's as far as improvement goes. And there's no, realistically, in my opinion, well, you can predict, put it that way you can make your guesses. And I think you make educated guesses. But when it comes to Kate and Ivy, I mean, that's really the, the high upside talent the business need, and we'll see if it happens.

Or put it this way, they are the highest upside young talent on the team. Duren, I think it would be very impactful. I don't think he has the ceiling that they do, particularly, you know, in today's MBA, where elite creators are, you know, the highest form of currency. So option number three, or excuse me, not option number three, but avenue number three is free agency. Now, you may have noticed that free agency has been getting a letter. and less interesting for years now.

The last exciting free agency was 2019. When Kauai went to the Clippers, Kady and Kyrie went to the Nets. I mean, I don't think in free agency, we've had a single kind of big fish change hands since then. Free agency is growing boring for a reason. So restricted free agents will almost invariably resign with their teams. Sometimes you will see a good restricted. free agents rather. And sometimes you see it's a sign and trade. Like, for example, um, how, uh, Bonto Ball and Devante Graham got swapped for each other. But for the most part,

go to RFA estate with the team. And good players, um, basically, you know, unless they hate where they are, uh, they will resign with their current teams. And if they do hate where they are, they'll get traded to, you know, to a team where they are willing to resign. It's just, it's increasingly rare for good players to hit free agency. Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks, I think I mentioned this in the last episode, did an episode about this back sometime in 2021, I believe, just about the era of extensions that it was largely concerning star players. It's basically okay, I'll sign an extension. And I've got nothing to lose because if I like it, I'll stay here. And if not, I'll just demand a trade.

And I'll see how that works for players under the next CBA because I don't think the owners want to put up with it anymore. and I don't think the weak front office considers that, you know, that sort of player empowerment as far as just being able to force a trade. I don't think the weak front office considers that good for the business either. That's a different story. We'll see soon enough. But just, yeah, the upshot is that not many good players at free agency anymore. And this summer is really no exception.

So, like you look at the top of the list. I mean, Kyrie Irving, almost certain to stay in Brooklyn. James Harden, virtually certain to stay with the Sixers. He's got a player option. He'll probably decline. Who knows? Chris Middleton, very likely to stay with the bucks. I mean, top of the list, any list you'll get is they're almost all sorted by salaries.

Russell Westbrook, who requires no explanation at this point, not a winning player anymore. The highest paid bench player in the history of the earth. Like Porzingis, who knows where he'll go. That guy's just way too injury. prone for anybody to really rely upon him. And you just go down the list from there, like, you know, Kevin Love, you know, bench player for the cavaliers, 34 years old. DeAngelo Russell could very well be like the best player who changes hands in free agency,

though. I figure that the Timberwolves would rather just trade him the deadline if they think that that's what's going to happen to a team that'll presumably resign him. Vucovich, not a great player anymore, probably stay with the Bulls unless they blow it up. You go down the list. like Jeremy Grant is like may end up being like the best player in free agency and Portland would be insane not to resign him. So the fact is it's it's pretty difficult. It's going to be pretty difficult for the Pistons to improve in free agency. It'd be pretty hilarious if they ended up

signing Jeremy Grant to like a max deal. I don't think that would necessarily be the greatest idea. But, uh, and I think it's pretty unlikely. But, uh, nonetheless, I mean, it's, it's going to be tough for the Pistons to find any big fish in free agency. They're going to have a lot of cap space. That doesn't necessarily mean that you should just go ahead and blow that cap space, however. I mean, they'll really have one last chance in 2024. Or, pardon me. They'll have one last chance really in 2025. But 2024 is when, if you're going to pay any combination of Bay and Stewart and Killian A's,

you'll have to do that. That's going to take some cap off your hands. 2025, that's really going to be where you're going to have your last shot because you're going to want to sign guys before you almost certainly signed hopefully K to a max extension and that's going to really butt into your cap space. And maybe you'll have those other guys in the books as well. So, yeah, I don't think the piston should, you know, and I don't think they'll do this because this is a, it's a terrible idea to do it.

And not only that, but I mean, they've got two really good instances of it in the past, really three, I guess, two of them with Dumars, of guys just saying, oh, have cap space, you know, use cap space. I guess just two. Dumars in 2009 in 2013. 2013, he was desperate, but for the most part, you looked at Dumars and you can know that if he had cab space, he was just going to use it, period. You know, on guys who may or may not deserve it, like day one contracts for

Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon that nobody else was going to offer. Day one contract for Josh Smith to play small forward. Yeah, that all seems like kind of a, it's going to say a bad dream, but that would be a bit pretentious for me to say because I wasn't really watching the Pistons at the time. keeping track to them but not watching them. And then I was going to mention Stan Van Gundy in 2016, but, you know, when he signed John Lauer to $40 million deal, I mean, that was day one of free agency, like the stupidest free agency in NBA history.

Or maybe that's exaggerating, but stupidest free agency in a very long time. I had that cap jump. I don't remember if it was $24 million or $27 million from the new TV deal. And a bunch of players just got ridiculous contracts they did not deserve. So John Moore got $40 million. That was a dumb contract. It was one of these players whom Stan Van Gundy just liked. Langston Galway is another.

Just got contracts they didn't deserve. Can you shoot threes, John Moore? You have to be able to shoot threes. Well, we don't know if you can shoot threes. We're going to pay you anyway. And, oh, well, it turns out you can't shoot threes. That's a shame. Ish Smith, you only got $18 million, but over three years,

and he turned out to be serviceable enough. Pretty good for his first year, all right in a second, and then pretty bad in his third. But whatever the case, just what I come back to is, you know, like, just the philosophy that you should go in and just spend because you have the cap space on guys who may not deserve it. I think that's a terrible idea. I think the pistons, if they are not able to somehow use that cap space, I mean, maybe they use it in a trade. I'll talk about that next.

But if they go in with all that cap space and there's just nobody worthy of it, then I think you just sign some one-year contracts and you just circle back the next year. though realistically it's unlikely to be much better. Or I don't really need to say it's unlikely to be much better. You can just go look at the list at this point. But, you know, there will be some decent guys assuming they don't re-sign with their team. Who knows? This is just a little bit too difficult to predict. There will be a lot of like 30 plus guys who, you know, who were pretty good in their time.

Like Clay Thompson, I mean, Tobias is on a really bad contract and not a great situation for him in Philly. Middleton if he picks up his option Seaccom is somehow 30 years old or will be, excuse me, next summer, and so on and so forth. Man, a lot of former All-Stars here. We're now in there, we'll be in there early to mid,

and some cases in their late 30s next summer. Anyway, I digress, so who knows, maybe I could be surprised this summer and the pistons end up like resigning Grant, or not resigning, and up signing Jeremy Grant, which, again, which I think would be hilarious. that would be pending the outcome of the draft, of course,

because the Pistons could easily grab a good forward there. And we've heard that the Pistons want to keep Bogdanovich going in the next season unless they get a really good offer. So presumably he'll be starting and yada, yada, yada. My point is just don't really get your hopes up for a big free agency splash because there's hardly anybody as far as big names who's available. particularly, you know, the Pistons would really just be looking for somebody at forward, assuming they don't get that guy in the draft.

And I said four methods. I should have meant five because there's the draft that's also extremely important. Let's say the Pistons win the draft lottery, and anybody who wins the draft lottery is drafting victory with one maniama. And that would be a very, very big boost for the Pistons. If that's probably going to be a 14% shot at, it ends up being a guy who could be an absolutely generational talent. And that's a term that's used too often, but there is nobody in the NBA who is like Victor, and there has not been, I think, ever. He's got some stuff to work on, but

I think the only thing that's really going to get in his way in the NBA is health. I mean, being that tall and that mobile, that combination can be a little hard on the body. But, you know, hopefully the Pistons are looking at a top five pick. And I just want to mention since I've seen, like some what I feel like is maybe not the greatest logic around this so yeah you only get a maximum of 14% chance however you you know the the lower you are in the lottery put it that way talking lower as in you know five being lower than two the more you can fall and you do not want to fall if you're number one the first you can fall as fifth so in any case I mean if the pistons fall outside the top two and if they're number two that'll be interesting you know an

interesting question because, you know, a Scoot Henderson guy who presumably is going to really be operating at time with the ball on his hands, Cade, who's a guy who's at his best with the ball on his hands, Ivy, who's going to want the ball in his hands? I mean, you could say you draft him and just deal with it later, or you make another team really pay for a lot of it. But if the Pistons fall outside the top two, I mean, I imagine you are probably looking at Brandon Miller or Cam Whitmore. I haven't done a ton of research yet, but enough to know a little bit about these guys, guys who can slot in it forward. You won't really be drafting for need at that point because, you know, after the top three, top two rather, you know, arguably your next four between the Thompson brothers

who can't shoot and Miller and Whitmore, you know, at this point, yeah, basically three through six or off, well, I guess when it comes to, let me reiterate that. I mean, Amen Thompson is more of a a handler. I don't really know what I was. Yeah, so I was wrong about that, but he could play at that position. You know, you could play it forward, though it's the same situation with Cade. You don't, you'd rather have that size mismatch at guard. So to kind of correct what I said, so three of the top six, you know, and then three of the guys who will go between between three and six or forwards. So draft, obviously, a potentially very, very good way for the pistons to improve. If they managed to be in that top six, then, you know, a solid chance you'll end up with the forward.

I guess I didn't really think about that too much because there's this thing called the draft lottery involved, and that can either be very, very extremely exciting as it was in 2021. That was an amazing moment when the Pistons pick got the first overall pick. It was just an incredible moment. And then there was 2022 when the Pistons dropped a fifth. So, yeah. Now we'll co-court from our sponsor. NBA fans, it's time to bring the hoop section to the palm of your hand at drafting a sports book,

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And then you look at your final avenue, and that is trade. So I'll explain the Pissin situation because I've seen that there's a lot of confusion around it. So first, let me give some background. There is a clause in the CBA called the Steppian rule. It's named after I believe his name was Ted Stepion, who was GM of the Cavaliers a long time ago. But he just kept trading first round pick after first round pick after first round pick and bad trades. So basically, not only by the Cavaliers, not doing well, but they had no first round picks. So the league made a rule. I don't remember exactly when this came into effect.

Anybody who wants to know, I guess Google it. And okay, I just paused and looked it up. But it seems to have been instituted in the mid-80s, and Stephum is actually the owner of the Cavs, who wasn't a manager. I wasn't general manager, rather. Whatever the case, the Stebian rule says that you cannot be without a guaranteed first-round pick in any two upcoming years. And I should note that the furthest ahead you can trade a pick is seven years. But in any case, yeah, you cannot be without a pick in any of consecutive years without a guaranteed pick in any of those seven years. So basically the situation the pistons are in.

So they traded away a protected first round pick in November of 2020, pick that became Isaiah Stewart. They received a first round pick in return, but they sent out a pretty heavily protected first, future first as well. And that pick remains protected until 2027. Again, seven years was the furthest ahead they could trade a pick, so 2020, 2020, 27. And for the remaining years, it's protected 1 through 18 in the upcoming draft, 1 through 18 in 2024, 1 to 13 in 2025, 1 to 11 in 2026, and 1 in 29 in 27. And if they haven't conveyed the pick by 2027, then it just becomes the 2027 second round pick, the Pistons pick. So what this means, and so two things. Well, the first and the more important, the Pistons effectively do not own that pick until, well, until,

a time as the pick actually conveys or doesn't convey. The Knicks own this pick, and it will, it belongs to the Pistons basically once the end of the season or the draft lottery demonstrates that the Pistons actually own the pick because it falls within the protected range. So the Pistons cannot trade it, like, period. Also, you know, the Pistons, excuse me, the Knicks effectively, you know, owning the pick means that the Pistons, again, in effect, just cannot be guaranteed a first, on pick throughout that entire time. So, like, in the first place, the Pistons couldn't trade a pick

the pick even if they wanted to because it's, because it is protected by, excuse me, it is owned by New York. But, you know, let's say New York, no, whatever, basically, I don't need to get into that. The Pistons can trade at 2029 first at this point. They'll be able to trade at 2030 first at the draft. Even then, you know, you couldn't do both. 2029 is the first pick the Pistons would be able to, yeah, the reason that they wouldn't be able to trade their 2028 because they have no guarantee of having a pick in 27. So again, 2029 is the first that they can draft, that first round pick, they can trade at this point. And then they could not trade both 2029 and 2030. It's very, very unusual for a team to, you know, like trade an unprotected pick, for example, that that's that far ahead. But just trading

picks that far head is dicey because you just never know what your team's going to be, where your team's going to be at that point. I suppose that's what protections are four. or whatever the case, though, if the Pistons wanted to trade like a 2029 and a 2030, like in a big trade, they wouldn't be able to. So the upshot of all this is that, you know, after all that rambling is that the Pistons cannot make this sort of big trade right now that would, you know, because the sort of big trades for either like a disgruntled star or a star from a team that wants to rebuild, they can't do it because, or at least if that team wants picks

and first round picks, like multiple first round picks, are almost invariably a, an aspect of any, you know, major trade for like a big name player. And like you saw this season, this last off season rather, really the price that was set for Donovan Mitchell. And of course, the timber wolves paid a stupid price for a bear. But, you know, you're looking at like three plus first round picks, you know, for a good player alongside some some good young players. So, and the upshot of all that is that the pistons at this point, unless you see some fancy

footwork are just not going to be able to, you know, trade those first round picks. They could, like, conceivably just from Nick renegotiate the protections with the, with the Knicks and allow that pick to convey in 2024. And, I mean, there's some other, you know, footwork you can do, for example. Like, you can make a trade that says, that has a clause that says, okay, two years after this pick conveys, like that this, this other pick will go out. It's not very common, though. So it's going to be tough for the pistons to make, like.

make a trade for like a third star. Again, you hope that Cade and Ivy are the other two stars. You know, there are some trades that can be made. Maybe you make a trade for just a pretty good player. Again, what are you giving up? You don't have, you know, unless you want to give up a pick seven or eight years from now, excuse me, well, seven years from now. So that 2029 or the 2030 once you get to the draft.

And, you know, in other teams, you know, those picks, again, are very long in the future. Other teams, some teams may be just willing to roll the dice, but a lot of other teams would rather have, you know, some nearer term draft assets coming back. If you look at the Pistons, actually tradable assets in terms of players, I mean, guess you could see Ivy go out conceivably. Cade is untouchable. Man, when I was talking about development, I completely forgot Marvin Bagley. That speaks to really how little I think of him or it towards his odds of being like a good NBA player.

I hope I'm wrong. But, you know, assuming you're not trading Ivy, you're not trading Cade. And, I mean, so it should be noted that you can trade your pick at the draft. Like, you just, in order to get around that rule, basically your team makes the draft pick and then trades it afterward. The second you make the draft pick, the clock is reset. That's now a past draft and it's only future drafts that matter with respect to the stepping in rule. So, you know, you've got that upcoming pick or, you know, maybe a pick of the draft in the following year. But, yeah, I mean, aside from that, and we're talking about this season.

And I'd say the chances of the Pistons trading their first round pick are very, very slim. Unless there's like a perfect opportunity and the Pistons are drafting like fifth or sixth. So then if you're not trading Cade and you're not trading Ivy, I mean, your best assets and you're not trading your pick, your best assets in this situation of Sadiek Bay, Isaiah Stewart and Killian Hayes. And again, I mean, you've got boy on in the picture. The Pistons apparently, you know, by, well, let's put it this way. I mean, if a team is trading a star is generally going to be the star who's either disgruntled. It's either that the star is disgruntled or this team is pivoting to a rebuild. maybe Boyan is interesting in the former case.

Boyon is completely uninteresting in the latter case except to flip further. Yeah, for what that's worth, you know, he's used the Pistons of a big trade asset. But just what I'm saying is the pistons don't really have the firepower at this point to pull off a blockbuster, to pull off a really big trade. You can pull off a trade, you know, but, you know, you'd really be looking at like, you know, if you're hoping for Ivy and K to be your number one and number two guys, I mean, you're, it's just questionable. There's always the capacity for trades, but it's just question.

questionable whom the pistons could really acquire at this point. So those are your four means, five means rather. The draft, of course, you're going to get somebody, hopefully somebody good, you know, hopefully somebody really, really good. And that's presumably going to be a viable means for improvement. Development, we can hope for a certain amount of that. You know, and also hope for good health, of course, the pistons have had terrible luck with it this season. You know, you have your best player, your ostensible best player missing the entire season, or almost the entire season. You can get yourself a better. coach that I'm confident in whether the Pistons will do it or not or just, you know, go with

yay, what's be really nice to Dwayne Casey and let him finish out with some semblance of the team we're hoping to ultimately build. Free agency, I don't expect it to be very exciting. And yeah, that basically is it. So it should be interesting. And the Pistons could do a lot of things right and still miss the playoffs. And what's likely to be an ultra-competitive. Eastern Conference, but I mean, you look at the degree that the Pistons will need to improve. It's conceivable that they're getting a little bit ambitious. I mean, granted, we've got a bit of a mess of a roster this season. Still not have a good coach.

Cade is missing. Pistons are on pace to win, like, low 20s in games. Like at this point, I think it would be 20. They're on a 20 game, on pace to win 20 games. I didn't really do the math in my head, but it didn't really do the math exactly. but like 20, 21, 21 games I think would be it actually, maybe 22. So if you look at a threshold at which, I mean, you've got to at least be a 500 team, then, you know, and that could be the case because there's going to be a lot of parity.

There is a lot of parity this year already, and there will presumably be even more next year, or at the very least as much, then if you're looking at a 500 season, the pistons are going to need to double their wins. Getting paid back will help, presumably some development will help, presumably the draft, will help, though you've got a young player coming to the NBA, and often it takes those players time to go home. It's really time to come online. Transition to the NBA is difficult for a lot of players. You're looking at really needing to win a great deal more games, put it that way, and it's pretty rare to, you know, regardless of circumstances to see a 21 increase in the single season. And if you get that 21, sure, at this point, sure, if you get in the playoffs,

you're just happy to get there that you're probably going to have to win, you're probably going have to win a play in a play in game or two to get there. But if you're one of those lowest seeds, then you go up against one of the powerhouses at the conference. And there are five teams that are fully capable of being powerhouses next season between the Celtics, bucks, sixers, nets, and cabaliers. So you're setting yourself up to probably be stomped on, most likely. The team with a lot more talent in the NBA, almost invariably wins in the playoffs. It's not like hockey where you can just have a hot goaltender and get some puck luck or everything comes together for you. But I guess that's not probably going to be a.

great concern of the business next year. If they make the playoffs, they'll just be happy for it. And goodness knows nothing's going to be worse than that buck series from 2019. This is just all to say that it's interesting to hear that the front office is really planning to push hard for the playoffs because there is a limited amount that can be done. It's going to be hard to make a very meaningful trade. It's going to be hard to really improve in free agency. The draft is, you know, who knows about the coach?

I mean, your best bets for improvements are, development in the draft and then, you know, maybe you add some veterans. And then you have to take all of that and compete in a very competitive conference. That's the strongest it's been in a very, very long time. So it'll be interesting to see. It's surprising to me that this is the information that's coming out because that's really asking for a big step. I hope that doesn't mean that Tom Gores is getting involved again.

He has a long history of meddling. It has never been positive meddling and has invariably been negative. He was the reason why the Pistons didn't rebuild for nine years. I went over that in the last episode. He has blessedly been, by all accounts, very hands off since, you know, like halfway through, since like the 2019, 2020 season when it just became, when he had an epiphany of some sort and realized that things were just absolutely not working out the way that the Pistons have been doing them.

and that you need to rebuild and get good talent. He said last year at some point that, yeah, we're losing a lot, and it's probably best that we're losing a lot at this point, certainly a reference to the draft. I mean, that was huge to hear him say that. He's preached patience. Again, that was in that same press conference, as he said, it's probably best for us to be losing.

I wouldn't put it beyond the realm of possibility that he's getting a little bit of an impatient, but I think that that would be very, very bad. I would signal that Tom Goraz is back to meddling and may push for some decisions that could be positive in the short term but not positive for the long term. Gores himself said, you know, we don't want to be competing for the seventh of the eighth seat every year. I think it's more important to say, and sure, that's true. I mean, that was an important revelation for him. I think it is more important to say that the Pistons should have their eyes on winning a championship

and short-sighted moves are, of course, not generally the way to do that. So that'll be it for today's episode. Want, as always, to thank all of you for listening. We'll catch you in next week's episode.