Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 136: The Qualities of an NBA Postseason Rotation Player

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

This episode describes the necessary traits of a qualified NBA postseason rotation player. What does it take, and how many players on the current roster could realistically play on the postseason roster of a good NBA team?

Welcome back, everybody. You're listening to another episode of Drive Into the Basket, part of the basketball podcast network. I am Mike, your host, coming to you today from Sunny Florida. And, yeah, we are very much in the dog days of watching the Pistons. I've got to say that this beginning of the home stretch of the season is much worse than it has been in the last two seasons. Good players are largely injured, you know, Blanda's out, probably being kept on for the rest of the season. I'd be surprised if we saw Alex Burks more than one or two times. Kate, of course, is out.

Even Ivy has been out recently. And more besides. So it hasn't been fun. Lawses have been many. That's what we want at this point. But man, is it an enjoyable basketball to watch. So what we're going to talk about today is going to be another one of a sort of, you know, where we are episodes.

I'm going to talk about basically who on this team is either good enough or maybe good enough to actually play in the postseason for the pistons. Because things change in the playoffs. Rotation shrink. You're only playing your best players. players who can be easily exploited aren't out there. But in any case, I mean, since the opposition is only playing its best players, defense is tightened up as well.

Also, defense is just tightened up because teams are playing harder because you're in the postseason. And any weakness will get ruthlessly exploited, like any weakness. So players who are incomplete who may be able to play in the regular season, though, but for a contender, you're rarely fielding it horribly incomplete player in the regular season. But because obviously those teams tend to want complete players, not liabilities. but in any case, those players just can't play. So first, I'm going to address some questions I've seen. Number one amongst those, how has James Wiseman been doing lately?

So Wiseman is a good example, and any player is an example of this really. You have to apply the eye test to any stats you see, even raw stats. Raw stats are not going to tell you, for example, what kind of shots the player is taking, what kind of situations the player is playing in, what sort of role the player is playing. I know that the guy I really don't like to talk about, the Biontre Drummond, is the exemplar of looking beyond the score sheet. He was a guy who put massive raw stats, but it was a horrible score, a selfish player who often hijacked the offense. Lazy, often just phoned it in on defense and so on and so forth. You just look at his raw stats, you would think it was a superstar.

On the other end of the spectrum, look at Al Horford, for example, in the 2017, 2018 season, I believe, when he averaged something like 14 and 7, but was one of the best centers in the league, because he was just good at everything and made all the right plays off the ball. And this was just great off the score sheet. So Wiseman is raw stats, for example. And I mean, he's been doing well around the basket. He's got good touch. He's been a solid garbage man.

And he's even made some jump shots. You know, well, he's not really jumping, but he's made some shots from the interior and the perimeter. Though that's still very much of work in progress. That doesn't show you, for example, that, well, as I said, he's made some shots. But number one, he doesn't space the floor. Spacing the floor is very nice to have. It's not key, but it's very, very nice to have. He is still a really bad defender.

I mean, he's gotten a little bit better, which is to his credit, though. The pistons haven't been playing against exactly the most terrible opposition lately. So he's gotten a little bit better, but the guy is often still lost on defense, notwithstanding the fact that he gets blocks. And again, he'll look back to Drummond. Another guy who got blocks doesn't necessarily mean that you're a good rim protector. Sometimes does, and often does, but in the case of Drummond, it does not. and in the case of James Wiseman, who anyways averaging only about one block per game,

for what that's worth, does not mean anything. So he's frequently lost on defense. He's frequently just doesn't know where to look, where to be, how to react. Certainly on switches, he's had a share of issues. And so he's been a substantial minus on the defensive end of the floor. Even as a rebounder on the defensive end, he has not been exactly impressive. and the guy doesn't like to set screens. He just sets these annoying slip screens.

Like, for example, Marvin Bagley does. The Bagley sets better screens than Wiseman. I mean, you want to be a good screener. You know, you want to be good in the pick and roll. You set a hard screen not forward and, you know, for the ball handler. And you look into the past with the pistons. I mean, I'll say for Drummond, you know, whatever his other, whatever his many flaws, the guy did set hard screens.

The best screens set her in recent history for the pistons was Aaron Baines, whatever you want to say about his butterfingers. the guy set massive screens. And then on the other hand of the spectrum, we had Thon Maker who set the most infuriatingly weak slip screens. And it was often the case, you know, when Blue Canard had the ball. And don't even get me started on how Casey Hamiled it back then. It was such completely miserable.

So, you know, those are just a few of the things. Like you look at his raw stats and, you know, they look pretty good so far. You know, 13 and 9 and 25 and a half minutes per game. And, you know, he's scoring with, you know, solid efficiency, 60% shooting. That's not bad. But you look at what he's doing, playing a lot of garbage man. He's getting, you know, a lot of non-self-created buckets around the basket. And again, not spacing the floor, not really playing defense, not doing the dirty work on offense. It's very similar to Marvin Bagley. Marvin Bagley, equally, he's less than its stats. He's horrible

on defense. He, too, cannot stretch the floor. You know, might set harder screens, but I mean, he's more skilled, he's pretty skilled around the basket, but all the guy is is giving you his sort of empty raw stats. And, you know, Wiseman as well can't pass. He just doesn't pass. Bagway doesn't pass either. These are guys who are only really on offense going to give you, you know, offense around the basket, a lot of it non-self-created.

And, yeah, you add the defense in the, you know, the very poor defense in the equation. And, and again, just guys who are less than their stats. I mean, you even look at Boyon. Again, this is a very talented offensive player, but a pretty bad defender. That reduces his capability off the score sheet. For that matter, I don't think the pistons have a single player who is, you know, significantly more than his stats at this point and a bunch of players who are less. Speaking of Bagley and Wiseman, the Bagley-Wiseman, and nobody shouldn't care about this at this point because the Pistons are trying to lose. The Bagley-Wiseman's starting combination is a complete and utter abomination.

These are two players with a lot of the same weaknesses and a lot of the same strengths. The overlap is enormous. The defense is a disaster when they're together. And on offense, generally one of them is just hanging off in the periphery, not really doing much. while the other one plays the role that they both play, pretty much, which is just interior scoring and work on a pick and roll. So, and all that to say is just another miserable thing about watching the business these days. Of course, neither of them is a reliable shooter.

There are kind of few reliable shooters for the pistons these days, but both of them certainly are not part of that number. They both shoot about 20% on low volume. So another question, and any of these three players could, you know, discussion of any of these players could go forward into, you know, how many players the Pistons have on the roster who can actually play in the postseason because there are certain qualifications you need in order to be a postseason player. The Pistons don't have many players, but those qualifications. You need to not be a liability on either end, for example, that's your very first, it's your very,

very first and absolutely extremely important qualification. You cannot be somebody who is easily attacked on defense. I mean, teams in the playoffs will exploit literally. any weakness you have on offense, on defense. They'll do it very directly in a way that just doesn't happen in the regular season. For example, if you're a huge liability on defense, this is one of the reasons that this is also the case in the regular season, why you don't see these big lumbering centers anymore, guys who, whom another team can just bring out to the perimeter and attack, and the guy gets absolutely beaten, and that's the first step in your defense completely falling apart, because you get a cover for the guy, and you just get to the drive-and-kick and kick or whatever

else. The defense falls apart, and the opposition gets a high percentage chance, whether it's from the three-point line or right around the basket. See, for example, Demarchus Cousins, poor guy, Torres' ACL. I believe, then Torres, excuse me, Torres, Achilles, then I think Torres ACL, whatever the case, he was with the Warriors in 2019. And the raptors were just repeatedly bringing him out to the perimeter and isowing him and attacking him. I mean, it just doesn't work. The guy could not defend an isolation.

The guy had struggles defending in the pick and rule. The NBA is extremely intolerant at this point. Like, the margins of skill and effectiveness are so small. that if you were just pointedly weak in a certain, you know, in a single area, it's going to hurt you real bad in the playoffs. So you cannot be a liability on defense, you know, if you just suck on defense. Like if you were just easily turned around and whatever else, I mean, the whole isolation thing in picking real defense, I mean, that's largely big.

But, I mean, there are plenty of guards who are just liabilities in their own way. Like, for example, you take John Morant, who, my goodness, but he's done lately, whatever the case, you take John Morant and the fact that he is, small, like in, as in very, very thin, means he can be easily bullied. You know, you get him down and while you switch on to him with a much stronger player, he's going to have a lot of trouble at keeping that guy. I mean, his wingspan also sucks for what it's worth. He's going to have a lot of trouble defending that guy. This is something that is exploited in the postseason. I mean, fortunately, if you are the Grizzlies, you have Jaron Jackson, Jr., who's arguably the best

defender in the league, who is going to help compensate for a lot of that, but it's still a problem. I mean, if you can compensate great, John Morant is still a positive value player because he's a fantastic score. There are very few guys who are both defensive liabilities and like all-world scores, all-world creators like John Moran. And on the offensive end, unless you're a center, unless you're a center who is good at traditional center things,

you know, your strong rebounder, you're a vertical spacer, your high percentage interior score and you're really hard worker. Those are all four essential things for any traditional, you know, and traditional center to be affected. and to be worth putting on the floor in the postseason, then, you know, if you're on any perimeter player and you can't shoot, then, you know, you're just completely out of luck. The other team, I mean, you see this happen in the regular season,

but it's much, much worse in the playoffs. The other team will absolutely sag off of you, and then you're an offensive liability. You're an offensive liability in the regular season. You're even more of one in the playoffs where you don't obviously want liabilities in the floor, period. And you're playing against better defenses, defenses that'll target you more closely.

You can see it with the pistons, for example. like Ish Smith with the Pistons, sure, it sucked that he couldn't shoot. I mean, he had that mid-range pull-up, which was he was not really all that great at. You know, he was decent at it from time to time. But, you know, it wasn't really punished quite that much in the regular season, and part because, like, the first season with the Pistons, who were really still evolving in the spacing era. And you could sort of get away with not being able to shoot as a guard.

Bellwood was still a problem. It became more and more of a problem as the years went on, as three years with the Pistons, because the league evolved very, very quickly from 2015 onward. But then you see the Pistons get to the playoffs. And I mean, Ish wasn't horrible in that regular season. He was low efficiency like usual. But he wasn't like a, and he was a bottom 15 backup point card. But it wasn't absolutely and completely horrible.

Again, in the playoffs. And Mike Budenholzer, who I think is a pretty average coach, but, you know, especially in the offensive end, like when the bucks are in the playoffs, it's kind of like, well, we're just going to give the ball to one of our three principal players, you know, Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton, Janus, and say, Okay, take the ball and we score with it. Yeah, and he would need a pretty big games out of all three of those guys. Really good games out of two of them are excellent and excellent game out of one of them if he was going to win.

Whatever the case, competent enough coach and what he did against the pistons against Ish Smith. As he said, okay, you're out in the four. We're going to take our center who is primarily with Brooke Lopez. We're going to back him off to the paint. You know, he's going to be the guy guarding you. And you're welcome to try to drive into double coverage against a strong rim protector. and ish Smith's choices, and Smith was not bad at attacking the basket. It was actually fairly good at attacking the basket,

but that made him very bad at attacking the basket because he was just driving into double coverage against a strong rim protector, and his choices boiled down to getting rid of the ball or pulling up for a mid-range shot, which was not efficient. And the fact that he was absolutely unable to do anything to break down defenses because the defense wasn't respecting him meant that he was just a horrible negative on the court. I mean, he had an absolutely abominably bad series, even by the standards of those Pistons who altogether had an abominably bad series.

He was real bad. So you can't put out players like that. Like I said, rotation shrink in the playoffs. You often have your starters playing like, you know, 40-something minutes. It's not unusual to see that. Golden State is a little bit of an anomaly because they were always able to run, often able to run a very deep lineup.

And some teams can do that, but most teams can't. But whatever the case, I mean, you're running against the best players in the opposite team. So let's go down the list here, basically. And obviously the pistons are in midst of a rebuild, and obviously players can develop. And I'm not going to target players who are early on in their development. But, you know, let's look at the players you think could play in a playoff series. Kate Cunningham, I think, is already fit to play in a playoff series. He's got his issues with shooting.

I know that I think we'll get it together. But, you know, occasionally you have a player who is not a good perimeter shooter, but is still good enough to be on the floor. I don't think that Kate at this point would be better, would be much, you know, it would be good enough to be anything but the primary hand or on kind of like a first-round exit team. He's got a lot of development to do. But Kate's a basketball genius. He's strong in penetrating.

He's pretty strong at creating offense. He's good at setting up his teammates and so on and so forth. I mean, he's already a player you could put out there. I don't know, maybe on a really good team is your backup point card or something like that. But Kate has enough assets to compensate for the fact that he's not really a floor spacer at this stage. Who knows? This season, we just don't know. I mean, the guy went in basically with a stress fracture in one of his legs.

Maybe it would have been a better shoot of the season. Hard to say. We've definitely seen flashes. And I just don't buy the notion that a guy who was a 40% three-point shooter in college on a very difficult shot diet has just completely forgotten how to do it in the NBA. So I know it goes against something that I just said about being a liability, but some guys bring enough to compensate for it. Boyon, you can play in the post season. I think it's better if he's playing off the bench. He's got to have good defensive players around him.

Boyon isn't a liability in the sense that you can actively attack him. Like you're not going to draw him out to the perimeter and just burn him every time. He's a liability in the sense that he makes mistakes. His defensive IQ is not good. But if you're playing in a strong enough defense, like the issue with Utah is that they had him and two other turnstiles on defense. And that was not ideal. Obviously, you cannot run a defense like that.

If Boyan is out there and he's playing a major role in the offense and the defense around him does not completely suck, then he's a postseason player. Excuse me, I think I just cut myself off there. He's a postseason player. But, again, if you want to get good value out of him, you want him running a major role in the offense. Again, generally, your starters are going to be on the floor a lot of the time.

And you don't really want like a bench flamethrower, but Blion can play within the full of any offense. That said, if the Pistons were going to trade, in my opinion, was that, you know, his postseason value isn't super high despite him being a very talented score because he's not going to be the number one option on your team. So he's not going to get as much value as he's giving you on the Pistons. And meanwhile, he's, you know, he gives some stuff up on defense on the other end. But again, he can't really be actively attacked. You look at Marvin Bagley. And, you know, for example, you play him at center and he's going to get crushed because he's a horrendous interior defender. And if you play him at power forward in a switching scheme and you make him switch multiple times, he's going to be the weak link in your defense.

He's going to screw up eventually. We saw that this season. Grand of the Pistons run of a very, very switch-heavy scheme. But Marvin Bagley is pretty bad in drop coverage, too. We'll get to him. Other players, Isaiah Stewart, if he is shooting well, and I think he'll get there. is another player who can play in the postseason. I'm not so much sure of power forward,

but again, if you have a decent perimeter defender around Isaiah Stewart, then he is a strong defender. He is a strong room protector. He is an excellent switch defender. He's just strong in the interior in general. Most the issue is if his teammates are getting beaten on every possession, I'm exaggerating a little bit. But the issue with Stewart is that he's not tall,

he's not fast, and he can't really jump. So if somebody gets through, he cannot both reposition in time and jump to contest a shot. And so if he can't do that, players just score over him. But if he doesn't have turnstiles around him on defense, then he does well. And if he can shoot threes, then great. I mean, he's what I call a basically no variance defender, again, if he has decent defenders around him, which means that he loses very, very, very little if you force him to come out to the perimeter and defend versus if you're playing him in drop coverage because if you force him to just defend from the perimeter on end, I mean, we've

seen players, we've seen Trey Young, we've seen Mukadansch who try to completely fake him out and it doesn't work. And I remember watching game seven between the Mavericks and the Sun's last season where I mean, DeAndre Aden isn't a great switch defender. He's pretty good, but you lose from bringing him out to the perimeter. And I was thinking like, okay, they're running maxi-cleeper at center a lot of the time. I just run a five-out offense. And let's say you put. Isaiah, you know, and just getting Bucon to good matchups and, you know, clearing out the interior by space and the four. And it's like, okay, you get Isaiah Stewart out there. And suddenly you put him in a new switching scheme and it's just not going to work for you. Um, because you force him to defend from the perimeter. It's kind of a fool's there. And you're not really going to get a great possession out of it. You know, as long as he can shoot, you can shoot those threes. And therefore, you play him as, you know, that version that you play him in kind of a small ball lineup is that version of Maxie Kleber who's considerably better on defense. So Isaiah Stewart, if he can shoot, can play in a postseason rotation. And the whole, if he has decent defenders around him in that situation, is not, is kind of a moot point because any team that makes the postseason is not going to have horrendous defenders around him like the piss instead this season. Don't buy him playing at Power Forward in general and not in the postseason. I think you, you play him in just common situations.

And just he does, Isaiah Stewart, if he can shoot, is he more than his stats player. But at power forward again, I just, I've said this, I think, multiple times at this point, that Isaiah just doesn't, he doesn't really have the speed to play power forward on defense. If you make him try to cover ground in the interior, he's going to get there late. He can't play helps out defense, which at power forward because he is not a good leaper, period. And he's, yeah, Isaiah is not athletic by NBA standards. So he's not going to explode from nowhere and weep and block a shot. And he's just not good at, you know, repositioning in general.

general, you know, to provide help defense if he's, you know, not near the basket. So, you know, at center he's just defending the interior and help is not an issue for him in that case. Though, again, you don't want him to be asking, asking him to reposition too much and then contest a shot. But that's a different issue. I mean, if his defender has not gotten completely, you know, if the perimeter defender has not gotten completely burned, then generally he has time to reposition, but he's already around, you know, he's already just in defense. anchor in there. So there's Isaiah Stewart. You know, you can absolutely play him in the postseason if he can shoot. You can play him at center. And now let's hear a quick word from our sponsor. Right up for the

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Win or lose. How many a drafting sports book with code TBPN? Minimum they have age and all the greater restriction supplies. He's shown us for details. Alec Berks, for obvious reasons. You know, postseason player. He's a decent enough defender. He's an excellent shooter who can create offense.

You know, he's sort of a decent passer. I mean, the Knicks tried to, Tom Thibode, who's obviously not the greatest offensive coach in the world, decided that he was going to try to play. Alex Berks had point guard a couple of seasons ago, or was that last season? It was not a good idea, but the Bidot is kind of a dinosaur, and notwithstanding the fact that he won coach of the year, basically just for having the Knicks be an excellent defensive team a couple

seasons ago. Obviously, he didn't go too well for them last season. But he's a bit of a dinosaur, especially in the offensive end. And so he stuck with something that really obviously was not working. So, Alec Brooks could be, I mean, the reason that he was conceivably on the trade block is that he'd be useful to any postseason team because he's in the lead for spacer, again, great some offense and is not a defensive liability. As we go down the list further, I mean, goodness gracious, it's just a bunch of players who are either end of rotation players,

our projects are very young and raw, or just simply are not good enough. Let's start with a couple of players that, again, I have seen questions about lately. One of them is Killian, who after a decent six-week stretch has regressed again to terrible, not as bad as he was early in the season when he was unbelievably bad, but really bad. So I've seen this as to get it again and again, you know, is it enough that Killian is, you know, is a strong, you know, that he brings defense in playmaking. And the answer is no. Number one, his defense is not elite. I think I've seen a lot of people really overstating how good his defense actually is. He is a plus defender. That much is true. He's hard-nosed. He makes pretty good decisions,

but he is he is not an elite defender. I mean, he's by no means a shutdown defender insofar as this still exists in the NBA today. He, you can't just put him on any guard and expect that he's going to do well. I mean, again, he's an above average defender. He's not an elite defender. And I'll make it clear since I've seen, again, I've seen questions about, you know, are other players whose defense is so good that you can just put him on the floor, even if they're really crappy on offense.

And the answer to that is absolutely not. Definitely not in the playoffs, but even not in the regular season. Those guys are extinct for a reason. Killian in any event is not one of those elite guys on defense. But I mean, he'd go back even to like 2015 and 2016 with Andre Roberson, who was a legitimately fantastic defender, couldn't shoot,

had Westbrook and Durant next to him. And even that wasn't enough to compensate for how horrible he was on offense. It was always 45. But even in the regular season, those players are not playable, or just complete non-factors on offense. But, you know, again, even if we were to go back 10 years,

Killian is not an elite defender like that. He's just a good defender. He's not elite. His playmaking is useful. I mean, he's a legitimately excellent passer with high basketball IQ. A really very good basketball IQ on offense. He can't make full use of that playmaking, of course, because he can't break down opposing defenses,

in part because he's unwilling to drive into contact. And also, you know, this doesn't help that a lot of the time opponents are just willing to sag off of him because he's a horrible shooter. So breaking down defenses, I mean, even if you're not getting that pass off, that leads directly to an assist is obviously a useful skill. I mean, just breaking down a defense. I mean, a lot of assists sure are generated by driving kicks, but just being able to break down defenses and make the right pass that leads to another pass that leads to an open shot is great. K's good at this is great at reading, for example, like several steps ahead. That's one of the things that makes him a special player. But it comes down to the shooting. Killian is a horrible non-threat on offense. You know, when he was shooting well, great. I still don't think he was good enough to be back a point card. Because again, he cannot break down defenses because he won't drive into the interior. Now he continues to be afraid of contact. My personal favorite this. season was him running in transition and having only George Hill who was quite small ahead of him

and Killian just turning away, I mean, which really just sums up as a version of contact. I've, again, I keep saying, I've seen it asked, I've seen it asked, you know, would he be okay if you were put onto a team with better teammates, which there weren't as much onus on him to score? And it's like, I guess his weaknesses would be a little less magnified. But the fact is that teams don't want good teams, don't want incomplete players. You don't see any team looking and saying, you know who I want, you know, the guy with a huge flaw as a scorer who all of his teammates are going to have to compensate for. Now, these incomplete players flunk out of the league. There is really nobody like Killian Hayes in the league as far as, I mean, I don't know how Ricky Rubio is doing

the season. Ricky Rubio kind of gets by and part by being an excellent veteran, but when Ricky Rubio was actually handling the ball a lot, he was doing so as a bad point guard for some of the worst teams in the league. He had, you know, the solid season or two with the jazz, I think, one in particular under Quinn Snyder, who is very good at getting the most out of his players on offense, but also in that one season, I believe, in which he was actually genuinely good, he was shooting well from three. But anyway, I mean, Ricky Rubio is an NBA player. And by this, I mean, like a genuine NBA player, even though he has often been a not very good NBA player, he's a genuine NBA player, and Killing Hayes.

And Corey Joseph is a genuine NBA player, Killian Hayes. I think it needs to be said is not at this point a genuine NBA player. And Ricky Rubio when he was playing last season, for example, he made his way back to Minnesota two seasons ago and was bad again. Last season, you know, he was kind of okay. It helped that he was actually kind of able to shoot threes. But again, he was the backup point guard for a Cleveland team that did not even make the playoffs. But again, he's like this savvy veteran who is, you know,

who does things off the score sheet. But again, even then, he is not a positive alley player. I think they would have had trouble playing him in the playoffs. But coming back to Killian, yeah, it's just players like him don't exist because they are not effective in the NBA if you cannot score your Oliability. I mean, the only guy I can think of in recent history was kind of like Killian, who had a career in the league, was Alfred Payton. He played most of his seasons really before spacing and complete intolerance of non-shooters became a thing. He was much better to attack in the basket. He was not efficient, but he was much more efficient than Killian, who was horrendously inefficient.

He played a bunch of seasons as a very below average point guard, and he flunked out at age 27, I think, or he was an end-a-bench player by the age of 27 and out by the age of 28. I believe he played 3,300 regular season minutes, and it's like 20 in the playoffs, all his garbage time guy, and these days his career would have ended a lot sooner. There are differences between them. He was much better to attack in the basket. If I remember correctly, Killian's a better passer, but much worse score, and Peyton was a pretty, darn bad score who could not space the floor. In any case, so, you know, can you play, is killing going to give you positive value in the regular season?

No. Can you play them in the postseason? No. You just simply cannot. And it's not a matter of, oh, let's put them on a team where he doesn't need to score as much. These good teams don't want incomplete players like that. They don't want players whom they are going to have to compensate for because that automatically makes them lower value players and a guy who cannot score effectively.

I mean, go look for one who plays a significant role in the rotation of a good team. I don't think you'll have any success, and certainly not in the postseason. So moving down the list, let's talk about Marvin Bagley, you know, leaving aside the fact that the guy still cannot stay healthy. Bagley, as I said before, far less than his stats player and a complete and utter disaster on defense. Yeah, again, you try to make him an interior defender. He's just comically bad. He absolutely just does not have the defensive IQ to do it. He's got horrendous defensive IQ by NBA standards.

in the NBA, you're playing against the best players in the world, very fast-based game. As an interior defender, especially, you've got to be able to make the right reads and, make the right, excuse me, reads and decisions, right reactions on a split-second basis, and he can't. And again, even if you play him at forward, I mean, the teams, if you just make a team switch a bunch of times and you really get them running around, he'll fail eventually. He does not provide anywhere at need, I mean, even that horrible defense would basically, The Pistons have been primarily playing him at center, which I think is his best position on offense. But whatever the case, the horrible defense would keep him off the floor in the playoffs in the first place.

The fact that he is not a particularly good offensive player, I mean, he's a talented score around the basket. He can't space the floor. He doesn't pass. He does not provide anywhere even remotely in the realm of good enough offense to compensate for that horrible defense. Yeah. And he is a player who would not be getting minutes on a good team. And certainly they would say in the postseason, you're not playing unless it's garbage done. James Weisen, pretty similar situation right now.

The difference with Wiseman is that, I mean, he's, I believe, two plus years younger than Bagley, and he's hardly had a chance to play in the NBA. So the Pistons picked him up, I believe, on the notion, you know, on the belief that we don't know if this guy, I mean, this guy has a lot of potential. And, I mean, Wiseman, I'd say has more potential than Bagley. The fact, you know, just his physical assets are very helpful. He's got, you know, I think he's a little bit more athletic. He's got a much longer wingspan.

Bagley doesn't have crocodile arms, but just having like an even wingspan. He's, I think, like 6-11 with a 7-foot, 7-4-1 wingspan. I mean, those inches matter. That's what she said. Ha-ha-ha. Sorry, I've been watching clips at the office recently. But, I mean, I'd say Wiseman's potential is higher at this point. And whatever the case, he's super raw.

Obviously not playing him in the postseason, but he's one of those players. Just like, for example, Jaden Avi, I'm going to look at it and say, well, obviously, they're just too young and too new in the league. So it was Jalen Duren. It'd be pointless to evaluate them in terms of their postseason readiness because these are very raw players who need time to develop. These players are 19, 20, and 21, and since the 21-year-old has barely played any minutes in the NBA because of injuries and because he just didn't really fit the needs of the team you was playing for, or the system for that matter. So same thing with Duren. You know, Duren, if he can become the defender, I think he can become, we'll definitely be a post-season player, especially if you can add some passing into his repertoire and improve on layups. You've got to improve that efficiency.

but again, you can have him be a Robert Williams type player, which I think you could do, then sweet. You know, that's going to be a valuable player. But you've got to be strong in the boards. You've got to be strong in the boards, obviously, in that situation. But again, it's a traditional center. Strong in the boards. Strong interior score.

You don't necessarily need to be creating offense, but you've got to be doing, you got to be finishing in a high percentage. You've got to be strong on defense. You've got to work hard. And the question about Duren is if his struggles on defense and he has struggled this season or more the product of rawness than anything else. and I think that's likely to be the case. Ivy, this has things he needs to develop on.

The shooting has improved, needs to continue to improve his shooting, needs to obviously improve his ability to attack the basket. He's been a disaster in that respect in the new year. But, you know, again, first season in the NBA, you're not making any judgments at that stage. Isaiah Livers, who is functionally in his working season. I mean, if we can get it together as a shooter, great, you know, he can play off the bench in the postseason. He's a smart player who generally makes the right decision on both ends.

I mean, there was that final drive against, I can't remember Washington. That was obviously a dumb decision. And it should be noted that Rivers is getting close to 25. Not really exactly a young player, but I think he's a player you can count on who will be counted on ultimately to make the right decision. And the majority of situations, I said this about Sadiq Bay as well. So I guess take it with a grain of salt. But obviously, Isaiah Rivers is, well, I think we've seen a little bit different. He's already a pretty good defender.

as long as you can shoot those threes, play solid defense, and just make the right decision. You can play in the postseason. Probably not a ton of minutes, but you can play in the postseason. Ahamadu Diallo questions about him. Yeah, he puts up a good number of points sometimes. He's also a horrific floor spacer. Can not play him in the postseason? Again, the other team will just sag off of him.

And again, Diallo West and his stats player, you look at him, yeah, he can put up a lot of points from time to time. He's strong in attacking the basket. He's still a negative value offensive player. because he makes it more difficult for the rest of his teammates, not only because he can't shoot threes, because the fact that he can't shoot threes means that he is effectively ignored by the opposition. They just sag off of him, and then good luck to him driving, and good luck to his teammates driving,

because now the pain is packed. And just something I'd like to mention is that generally you can't be in the key for three seconds without guarding. That's obviously, you know, that gets you a technical foul. Well, not a technical foul for the player. it's a free throw and you get the ball back. Offensive three, excuse me, defensive three seconds. If you are defending somebody, like if your actual man, like let's say you have a, you have the center switched on to, onto D.L. Or whoever switched on to D.L. is defending him. And you back into the paint, you can stay there as long as you want, because you are guarding your man still. So that's why anybody in that situation, you can just completely sag off of them back into the paint. And you can stay there as long as you want, you know, as long as he is still, he is still the man you are actively guarding. But. But, Yeah, again, the fact that Diyal can't shoot means that he is an instant liability, and it's very, very difficult for him to be a positive, a positive, a positive, a lot of offensive player.

He would not be seeing minutes for a good team right now, you know, pretty much, period. And absolutely would never make it into the rotation of a good postseason, of a postseason team, period. He's playing on a bench for, you know, like a kind of sort of deep bench role. I mean, he's, at times been out of the rotation, even when he's been playing well by his standards for one of the worst teams in the league. that's just how it's just how it is. If you can't shoot, you better be, I mean, if you're, if you can't shoot and you're

a permanent player, you would be Jimmy Belt, or Janus or something, and then you've got to build a team around you. I'm exaggerating a little bit, but it's, it's a massive weakness. Corey Joseph, everybody likes to rag on Joseph. Like, he sees a bottom 15 backup point guard, very much a legitimate NBA player. I know people just, a lot of people just don't like seeing him out there because he obviously doesn't have a future with the team. I'll go back.

We've heard everything, go back to what if, excuse me, to what I've, excuse me, to what I've said before we've had just heard only great things about his presence in the locker room and with the youth in general. He is better than a lot of players in this team. He doesn't get a lot of minutes because he, you know, is just not in the rotation. They want to give those minutes to younger players. And, you know, by all I can tell he's perfectly fine with that. But he is more of an actual honest to goodness NBA rotation player than at this

point than the vast majority of other players in this team. You know, certainly better than Killian, better than, you know, better than Wiseman. that, you know, again, Wiseman, Ivy and Durner knew. But like, better than Bagley, better than Magruder, whatever, maybe not the vast majority, but he's one of the more NBA-ready players in this team. Do you want to be playing him in the postseason is your backup point card? Not ideal. Again, your backup point guard is probably not going to see a ton of minutes in the playoffs,

but you ideally want him to be better than Corey Joseph. But Corey, to his credit, you know, his decent passer, he's a decent floor spacer. I'll always play his first team. Decent defender. Whatever. Rodney McGrooter, obviously, is just on the roster for the sake of, you know, great locker room guy. And you can come in and, you know, if there are a lot of injuries, you can come in, you can have him come in and play minutes. And you can expect that he's going to do a decent job shooting the ball. Beyond that, obviously not a guy who's going to be in the rotation for a good team and certainly not the postseason.

And, I mean, then who else do we really have? Like RJ Hampton, you know, Hampton may or may not end up being anything, you know, we'll see. he may not even end up being in the team next season because his contract is fully non-guaranteed. So, yeah, that's where we stand in terms of the roster. I don't believe I'm forgetting anybody major here or perhaps anybody at all. So I just wanted to give an idea of what it takes to be an actual postseason player, you know, a viable postseason player in the NBA and where the Pistons stand in that respect. Now, it's entirely possible the Pistons could see a lot of development in the offseason. Obviously, you hope that they get a top whatever pick.

I mean, number one, obviously, is going to change things quite a bit for them, because you've got Wemba Niyama coming in, and he may well be the best prospect in the last 20 years in the NBA. If you can remain healthy, I think that's really his only significant risk, because it's hard in the body when you're that tall and that mobile and not Janus, who is just a freak of nature, just in terms of having all three of those qualities. But you can see, you know, Jade Navi could easily grow into, into, you know, a good postseason player. Jaywin-Duron could easily grow into a good post-season player. James Wiseman, you know, it's a possibility. I think Isaiah Stewart will get there. I think Cade, maybe he's not already there, would, you know, will get there. I think Boyon is already there again in the right situation.

And maybe Olivers, maybe O'Livers be a guy who, you know, who plays some minutes in the playoffs. And Burks, you know, Burks, of course, is there. But just the point is the Pistons. And obviously, you need, like, honestly, Donest to goodness, I still subscribe to the notion that you need, the two superstars or one superstar and two really good players in order to win a championship, you know, one superstar and two stars. So yeah, that's where we are with the Pistons. And just on one note, I'm interested to see what happens with Marvin Bagley.

The Pistons, I mean, he can't just be moved. I mean, cap space is cap space. The team just isn't going to take him just out of hand. And even in a trade, if he's salary matching, if a salary is just there for salary matching, then he's effectively going to be a negative asset in that trade. Also, the Pistons can't exactly make a big trade right now because they don't have access to future first-round picks because those picks until 2027 are until, the night of the draft, you know, when you put together the fact that those, until the

lottery and until, you know, whatever, it's definitively determined that the, that piston's first round pick is going to fall into the protected range. Those picks right now are owned by the NICS until 2027. You couple that with the stepping in rule, Pistons can't trade a pick except for on draft night until one conveys to the NICs until, and I'll depend on the Pistons being good enough to fall outside the protected range. So in any case, hope you found this informative or at least enjoyable. As always, I want to thank everybody for listening. I'll catch you in the next episode.