Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 140: 2022-2023 Season Recap - The Good and the Bad (with Brady Fredricksen of Detroit Bad Boys)

Episode Date: April 12, 2023

This episode, featuring guest Brady Fredericksen of DBB, recaps the good and the bad of the now-finished 2022-2023 Pistons season, plus the departure of Dwane Casey from the head coaching role.  (Apologies for the sound issues --- a switch in recording platforms was made necessary about one-third of the way through the episode!) 

Welcome back, everybody. You're listening to another episode of Driving to the Basketnet. I am Mike, joined today by my guest, Brady Fredrickson of Detroit Bad Boys. Brady, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you, man. I'm very excited to be here. All right, so let's talk Pistons. The season is over.

It's going to be actually a little bit over six months again, I think, until we see the Pistons hit the floor for a regular season game again. It was not the season, I think, that either of us or any Pistons fan was hoping for. but there was some good to go along with the bad. So just to kick it off, how did this season go versus your expectations? Yeah, no, to your first point, I think it's a period of time. It's a little break that I think all of us as fans could use a few months of not having to watch these guys play. As fun as it might be at times. But yeah, no, it was definitely tilted early.

I was of the belief that, you know, when the Vegas win line came out, where it was like 29 and a half wins. I was like, oh, yeah, they can win 30 games. I for sure can see that. And, you know, I was big, big, big, big, Kate Cunningham can be a star starting now type of person at the start. And I still believe that. But obviously, you know, him going down so early, really torpedoed the whole thing.

And I think, you know, as we went through, it was just a lot of, a lot of painful production in terms of like seeing guys get better. but like individual improvement versus team cohesiveness. It just was never on the same page. There was never a time this season that you looked at the Pistons and you said, wow, the young guys are playing really good and the teams actually playing pretty darn well too. Like it just never found the right time. And that was probably the biggest disappointment for me in terms of watching 82 games or the only 117.

It was just you never found a time where it was like they're figuring this out. Yeah, I hear you. It was definitely a broken season. Completely agree with what you said about Cade that the season took on an entirely different character. I was excited in the same way. I mean, it seems like we're both very high on Cade's potential. And I thought, you know, he's going to come back and, you know, he's going to be great. You know, we're really going to see big things from Cade.

And I think that was, that was for me, the thing I was most excited for. I was excited for Duren. But once Cade went down, the season really changed and it kind of became and, you know, okay, what can we milk out of the season? I thought the Pistons were going to win 31 games, like given good health. Do you think, like if Cade Cunningham, like knowing what we know about the team right now, if Cade Cunningham had been healthy, do you think that this team would have won in the realm of 30 games? No.

I think they would have been very similar to what they were last year with like 24, 25 wins. I think he covers up a lot of the bad things. I don't think, you know, people will point to their offense and say, well, they scored 118 points for game. And that's true. but I think you look at the way that their offense worked. And, you know, a lot of times there were turnovers that just killed them. And when they needed baskets late in games, they couldn't find those baskets. Even when they were playing Alex Birx and Boyan Bogdanovich, they just weren't able to create those looks when the defense was really locked in.

And I think he would have helped in that respect. And I think just in terms of, you know, Kade turns a ball over. Don't get me wrong. But I think the offense is a little bit less chaotic if he's out there. it's not Ivy and Killian Hayes trying to do it. But I think in general, you know, it was it was never going to be what we expected. And it was no fault of Cade Cunningham's injury. It was mostly just, if you look at the way this team was constructed and the caliber of defense, it was capable of.

I don't think that was ever going to be as good as we not expected, but as it needed to be even to get to 30 words. Yeah, this team is not built to play defense this roster. I mean, my feeling a few months into the season, and this was after Kate had gone down, was that, you know, this team has, you know, has some pieces, you know, it's got a good start on the rebuild between, you know, especially Cade and Ivy and Duren. But in its current state, you know, in terms of the progress in the rebuild, but also just where the roster currently is, it's like a horribly incomplete. And definitely this roster absolutely could not play defense. Like when I saw it at the start of the season that they were going to trot out a lineup of Cade, Ivy, Sadeeke Bay, Boyan, and Isaiah Stewart, I was like, this is not going to end well. No, that's true.

I think it's funny that we, you can look back at, you know, that first two weeks of the season or even the week before the season. And like, you know, everybody was mostly complaining or debating about, well, can we play Sadiq Bay and Bogdanovich together? And like, you know, turns out no, we couldn't have. The team did not look good with either of them, you know, manning that power forward spot. But I think, you know, even as the season progressed, you know, I don't think either of those guys. ever stood a chance defensively. And I think, Sadiq Bay, obviously, I think we know he's a hard worker. He really improved his offensive game a lot, but I think the majority of his time

off the cart was put towards that side of the ball because he never really made those strides defensively that he needed to. And, you know, the same thing with Bogdanovich, obviously we know he can score. We know he can shoot. And people will say, you know, hey, he's actually a good defender when the games matter and when he cares. But unfortunately, here the games didn't matter. And, you know, he didn't have have a guy like Rudy Gobert that would clean up all of his mistakes. So, you know, I think the critical oversight, we as the fans had before the season, was mainly, you know, expecting those two to be able to fill such a large role. When in reality, they just, you know, they aren't capable

of doing those things. And that kind of was a big deal once you got playing the games. Yeah, it was an issue. Definitely. I mean, Sadeek took a, I feel like took a huge step back on defense. And of course, Bleyon has his well-known. It's a very talented score. You know, we'll talk about him a later. I thought was really impressive on offense. But when it came to the defensive side of things, of course, he's just never been good. And he was one of, he was, he was one of those very well-highilated liabilities for those jazz playoff teams that last season and the season before flamed out on defense. So also put the two of those together. And the fact that Isaiah Stewart, who is a very, I feel like a very strong defender, a very strong interior defender when you have

decent perimeter defenders around him. When the perimeter defense is just crude by sieves, you know, and in Boyan and Bay and in Ivy was, you know, he improved somewhat, but to Jenner, in general had a really tough defensive season. Stuart can't both reposition and contest. So if guys are just getting through like at Swiss cheese, I mean, even, you know, Stewart had his issues on defense. He really wasn't able to make it work. Yeah, I think that's the thing that you look at with, I think I've seen people, you know, I mentioned how good Sadiq Bay has been in Atlanta in terms of shooting the ball in his role.

And you look at any player when they're not in this situation and the environment they are here. And, you know, they're going to be better. Any player, Kate Cunningham will be better on 28 other teams because they are not as lost and broken as this team is in terms of how it's structured and stuff. So, you know, I think it's hard to judge and evaluate guys purely on what they do for the Pistons because you don't know what they're they would look like in a better, more competitive environment. But I think, yeah, as you pointed out, I mean, there's strengths and there's weaknesses, and some guys have much more glaring weaknesses than others. Yeah, definitely.

And Sadiq, who knows? I mean, in Atlanta, this may have just been a wake-up call for him. I mean, we're going to talk about kind of the good and the bad of the season here. Sadiq's obviously would fall into the latter category. I know that he was very, you know, it was a very disappointing thing for a lot of Pistons fans. A lot of us had high hopes. I mean, I thought, I mean, mine probably weren't quite as high. I thought that Sadiq would have topped off.

It maybe fourth best guy in a championship team. Fourth best guy in a championship team is a very good player. And just to see him completely collapse on defense and kind of turn a little bit dumb on offense, was very disappointing. It may have just been a wake-up call to him in Atlanta. Like, you know, this isn't going to fly. But it's a shame it didn't work out with the distance. Yeah, I think that's true.

I think the first season, you know, he really got a lot of things that impressed people. And then obviously the 50-point game last year was, you know, impressive in a vacuum on its own right. But I think when I looked at it, just I was never the biggest guy for him. I mean, I thought he was a valuable starter on that 2020-21 team. But I think as he tried to like expand his game, on one hand, yes, it's good that you're trying to do new things. On the other hand, like what happened to the things that you were actually good at? And so, you know, for me, I think it's people have always known or at least, you know,

seeing that when he is a 3-and-D shooter, I say the D part lately, but a three-point shooter, he is maximized the best. And I think Atlanta, when you've got good big men, three good big men, two good guards, another good wing. I mean, he's the, what, the seventh best player in that team. So it's like, you know, there's no pressure on him to do anything but what he's good at. And I think maybe he was a guy in Detroit, especially with Cato, who was like, well, I need to do more. We need more for me.

And whether that's true or not, the reality is he wasn't good enough to fill that role. No, like the impression that I got was that he wanted to fill that role. I mean, Dwayne Casey came out with a thought, pretty poignant statement about how when you bring young players into the league, they don't want to act within the role that you give them a lot of them. You know, they want to go out and be the best player in the world. And of course, the vast majority of players in the league are role players. So just based on what happened and based on some of the reporting around the situation, it almost sounded as if Sadiek was going a little bit rogue.

Just what he wanted to do was beat us off the dribble score, whereas the team wanted him to just be largely a three-point guy. I mean, my opinion from his rookie season was, you know, the next frontier for Sadiek Bay is shooting motion three is if he's a guy who can attack off the dribble a little bit great. But it seemed like he really was styling himself this guy who was really going to be a high-usage attacker, and that just wasn't working out.

Yeah, no, that's all fair points on him too, I think. there. And, you know, the last thing I have on him is just that, you know, I think when he was traded, you know, a lot of the dirty laundry was aired in ways about, like you said, his, you know, his nature of wanting to be the guy and do those things. And, you know, I think this is something that even goes back to the game in Golden State actually in January when he hit that buzzer beater, which was great. But I think after the game, he, like, openly admitted that the play was not for him, but he really wanted to shoot that ball, which is like very fun and precocious and whatever when you win. But if that shot doesn't go in, that's just a critical, like, failure by a player being selfish.

So, you know, I'm sure he'll be able to fit his role well with all those alpha dogs they have in Atlanta. Yeah, on a team that I don't think is probably very likely going anywhere. It seemed like a very mid-team. But we'll see. Yeah, I wish him the best. I mean, speaking of shots like that, do you remember? I'd be surprised if you didn't remember this. This was back in probably February of 2017

in the midst of that nightmare 2016-2017 season. And Reggie Jackson, who back then was kind of like an egomaniac, the Pistons were playing against the Celtics. The game was close. KCP had been the clutch star. Reggie Jackson brings the ball up the court. The Pistons are up to like 15 seconds left in the shot clock, and he takes a deep three and misses.

I don't know if you remember that. It sounds familiar because that was a Reggie Jackson staple, but... Yeah. Yeah, and he missed, and the Celtics got the ball back and ended up winning the game. And, yeah, I guess I don't know why I said. You'd probably remember this. I remember all sorts of completely inconsequential details. It's not a very useful skill.

It's hard for me to separate my emotions with Reggie Jackson because I was one of the very big Reggie Jackson stands for a long time there. Oh, really? Yeah, I thought by the end of his tenure with the Pistons, I really liked the guy. I thought he'd become just the model teammate and an absolute professional. And his first couple years with the Pistons, I wasn't as big of a fan. But basically it was the same sort of thing. Like if he'd made the shot, he would have been the hero. But instead it was just a bad shot.

If Sadiq had missed that shot. Like you said, it wouldn't have been quite as fun of a story. So, yeah, it was definitely a disappointing storyline of the season. And yeah, I wish I'm the best in Atlanta. In any events, moving on to the next big subject, of course, we found this out. It was going to be speculation into the offseason. and what was Dwayne Casey going to do in the event? It took about, I don't know, what was it, like 15 minutes until he fired himself.

So Dwayne Casey is out as head coach at the Detroit Pistons. He's moving into a front office role. How do you feel about that? I think it's fine. I think I understand the people who were very angry with his performance. I think that winning 17 games is pathetic, no matter if you're trying to lose or not, because the number of teams that have won, you know, I mean, they were one game away from being the worst team ever.

and, you know, that season drove Dick by tail away from coaching forever. That's how bad that. That's how bad it is to win 16 games. So, like, you know, I understand that stuff. I think, you know, the one thing I will, you know, give him credit for us, I think a lot of guys did develop to some expect, to some respect underneath of him. Obviously, not as much as we'd hope. It was kind of middling development a lot of times.

But the other part of it is just I always look at the Pistons in Houston kind of as a Yin and the Yang in terms of like teams that are heavily rebuilding right now. And I think Houston is doing it one way, they had a superstar they traded them they have all these picks they get all this talent and they should be far and a way better than the pistons by now but the pistons with less are the same i suppose but the big difference is casey never let the locker room and the culture and everything they have devolve into the shit show that you see with houston where it's just like yeah john walls out there talking stuff you know you see video of this guy you know making fun of stephen silas who's already

gotten, you know, clipped over there. So, like, all these different things where it's just like, it seems like there's little problems. And even today, I don't know if you saw the video, there's a video of Rafael Stone their GM trying to defend their culture. And you know, he's kind of defensive because he said it's the greatest culture he's been around since he's been in the league since 2003. So it's just like, there's, there's ways that this can get, this could be much worse.

And so that is one spot where I think I will give him credit. And I think, you know, being in the front office, that should be good to, to give him, you a chance to still, you know, coach these guys be a mentor to them. Because I think a lot of the guys do respect to hell out of them. So that's worth noting too. Yeah, I absolutely agree. It seemed like he is a great locker room commander and his players all like him. And running a locker room, they're keeping it healthy and keeping the players happy.

And it seemed like, like you said, we never heard any whispers even of discontent out of the Pistons locker room. No. Across the course of three really bad seasons in which I think the Piston, in terms of winning at least. And it's not easy for players to lose that many games. And there was a lot of young players as well, and that can be difficult to manage to. Though I think that Troy Weaver really put an emphasis on drafting and bringing him players who had the right character, and that helped. But I think the Pistons won a total of considerably less than 60 games with the course of three seasons. So, yeah, he did a great job there.

And in terms of his player developments, I mean, that's harder to see. But by all accounts, he was an effective coach in that respect to. As an on-court coach, I was very much ready to be done with him. Of course, I was ready to be done with him before he even became the coach of the Pistons. I remember in 2015 watching Game 4 of the Raptors versus Wizard series, the third-streeted Raptors, watching Game 4 when they got obliterated and swept and that was the end of the season and thinking, man, they got to get rid of Coast Casey, this guy is a really good floor raiser, but he puts the ceiling on your team. And then three years later, I don't want this guy as the coach.

So props to him, he seems like a great guy, and his players liked him. and it seems like he was good for this team through this phase, but I kind of, I feel like it was time to move on. Awesome. Yeah. No, I think, you know,

I think that it was the right time to move on. I think this team in its process was always going to be, you know, when it was time to start winning. It was not going to be, you know, long term with Gwen Casey. I think I thought maybe they would give him a chance to kind of reward him

for being the good soldier during the, you know, the bad years to maybe take that first swing at it. But at the same time, I think after the way this year went, I'm sure that combined with the just sheer amount of time this is taking in terms of going into year four and having not even sniffed 30 wins. I think, you know, Troy Weaver saw the opportunity to, you know, go out, find his guy.

Maybe it's because his guy happens to be open and available right now. And maybe he won't be if they waited a year. Who knows, you know, we don't know any of that stuff. But I think there was obviously a rhyme and a reason. And I think, yeah, I think it's time for a new voice regardless. Yeah, I think, even. more than just a new voice. Well, the Pistons are pointing on transitioning to winning. And I mean, in my opinion, Casey is a proven loser in terms of as a game. Let's put it this way. I think it's

just a proven loser in the NBA and the modern NBA in terms of winning games. I think that his flaws started to become very evidence, you know, long before he left the Toronto Raptors. And he was clutch for the Pistons in terms of losing games throughout this rebuild. I mean, I'll put it that way. The trouble is he wasn't doing it intentionally. He was just. just an exceptionally bad late game coach, you know, who just could not make the proper adjustments, which constantly lose control of games. We know that he's an awful postseason coach and so on and so forth. So I think that I don't know if this was in Weaver's mind, if this was an amount of Tom Gores,

but we've heard that the Pistons really want to pivot next season to try to win games. The focus is not going to be on development on letting players play through mistakes, even case he said that, even case he said, you know, next season, this was maybe like, I think three weeks ago, he said next season, we're not going to let players play through these mistakes. So the focus is going to be on winning rather than development. And I think going for a coach who is more suited to that, this was absolutely the right move.

So it'll be interesting. I don't, like, I tend to shy away from, from talking about topics. I don't feel like I can possibly be expert on. And things can just really come out of left field when it comes to coaches. So I haven't really thought about whom the pistons might hire. Have you? Yeah, I think a lot of the names I've seen mentioned are interesting. I think I really haven't sat down and thought too deeply about it.

I think, you know, Jerry Stackhouse is the one that, that I've been, you know, I've talked about with the guys at DBB and stuff. And just because I think it's an interesting thing. And I think I've heard, you know, from just reading college basketball stories that he is a guy who is very good with the X's and O's, but is not really about the other parts of college basketball, which are recruiting and things like that. So, you know, in the NBA, you get to, you know, avoid those types of things and stuff. but again I think you know and he's got experience too in the G league winning a title there and he's been an assistant in the NBA so like he's not your traditional like you know I've seen people mention Jay Wright and like Jay Wright's a pure college coach he's a good coach but um you know that's a guy who's never been in the NBA but I think overall I mean there's the Yodoka thing I think that the timing of Casey leaving now with Udoca being available I don't know that there's a coincidence that's a coincidence or if that's intentional but it certainly is a connection I've thought about and you know that's say what you will about his personal conduct, but I think, you know, professionally he's a hell of a coach and he's interviewed with the Pistons before. So obviously I think the front office in Gors

has been, you know, has talked to him before. And then I think the other guy that really sticks out to me is Charles Lee, who is a younger guy. He'd be a first time head coach, but he's been, you know, kind of Mike Boodenholzer's right-hand man for years and years and years. And he dates back to, you know, playing for the Spurs. So he's got like the pop connection there and stuff. So, like, I think that's an interesting one if they want to go that way and find a young coach to grow with the team. But they haven't done that since 2013 or 14, whenever they got, or no, more than that, whenever they had John Custer was the last first time coach. So I'd be surprised if they did that, but that might be the move, you know?

I think it's the move, definitely. In my opinion, I wouldn't go with a retread. I don't know if I wouldn't necessarily consider Udoca, uh, uh, uh, uh, retread. I just wonder if he's touchable at this point. I remember that the Nets were considering hiring him and the, press around it was so bad that they just kind of quietly gave up and hired somebody else went for Vaughn instead so it'll be interesting to see definitely no i think he's yeah i think that's the other part is i think i think it's one of those things where he as a guy i think has to

to rehab that reputation more and i i would be surprised you know he did lead the Celtics to the finals and they were what like two games for championship but yeah you know at the same time most times you really have to earn your way back in and you have to kind of grind as an assistant again So he might have to take that route. I don't know. It doesn't seem like teams are viewing it that way, but that's kind of what I would always assume is the natural way is, you know, when a coach gets fired, if they want a second job, they got to go kind of earn that trust again. Yeah, I think that's a good point. All right, so let's move on to break down how this season went. And we're just going to make it an exercise, the good and the bad and the bad. And we'll just alternate good bad, good here. So I think the number one good, you know, aside from, well, this kind of exists in parallel, number one. I mean, basically the business at a time. top season. And if you want to be bad, you want to be the worst team. And the Pistons did succeed in being the worst team. So they can drop no further than five. But unfortunately, thanks to the process sixers, they don't have the highest chance now of all teams of winning the first overall pick

is what it is. But the primary good, I think, that came out of the season. The most exciting part of it for me was Jaden Ivy's development. Yeah, I know. I mean, I agree with you. I was that Jaden Ivy was the singular surprise for me. You know, I keep these tears living up to the draft just to keep track of how I feel about guys. And so I don't get caught up in the hub about as we get closer to the draft. But he was a guy who steadily rised and was firmly like a tier two guy for me below Chep, Paulo, and Jabari. And I think, you know, he lived up to that and some for me because I wasn't expecting him to show what he showed.

You know, I saw all the negatives about how he was in the point guard. And he didn't have that kind of in-between mid-range game. And he really squashed those concerns as we went through the season. And I think, you know, he had this like definitively upward trajectory. from game one to game 82 and that was super exciting and I think you know it doesn't matter for his long-term potential but it's always fun when you see a guy who is able to just with his play alone you know shut up his critics whether they are like fair critics or unfair critics and he was able to just kind of unite everyone into the singular belief that this guy is a player and he's going to be

good and so I think that was arguably the only right spot you know outside of jail and during that came from the season. Yeah. It's not in my experience, it's not common to see a player come in as raw as Jaden Ivy was because he came in pretty raw and makes such a degree of progress over the course of the season. Like I had similar concerns as you did about, you know, his ability to make the right reads and passes and his willingness to make the right reads and passes. I was like, is this guy going to be somebody who really has to operate on the ball, but can't really make it work in terms of just making those passes, making the right decisions.

Is he going to be willing to do it? His shooting, his drive game, I thought his drive game, he was going to have to refine his shooting, his consistency and his in-between game as well, which was non-existent in Purdue. And he really made a lot of progress in a lot of those areas. Still needs to work in the drive game,

just really planning it out a little bit better so he can use that fabulous athleticism of his to get to the basket. But his shooting really improved, in terms of his consistency, especially down the stretch, and just his shot for him, which, like, last game against the Bulls, this is a really simple play,

but he just caught a pass at the three-point line, and he took a really good-looking jumper, and it was like, wow, the beginning of the season, like his legs would have been flopping around. And just his growth as a playmaker, I still think he's going to top off as a secondary playmaker, but that's fine. And just in terms of,

what he showed that he'd be able to do off the ball, just in his potential fit with Cade. And man, the guy's a hard worker, like a super hard worker who is very dedicated to improving. He lives up to that, that's that old saying of, like, a coach's son. I mean, he definitely is that type of dude. And obviously, his mom's a great coach at Notre Dame. You know, but I think the main thing to your point is that, yeah, his decision-making went from, you know, being very forceful in terms of forcing things to being very reactive. like to being aggressive without being like bad aggressive you know he got to his spots he knew what he wanted to do with the ball he wasn't just trying because i think at per do a lot of times if you watch

they played he kind of was just so overwhelming physically to guys that they couldn't keep up with him and you saw that a lot this season against you know obviously the best of the best too but i think um yeah i think he's just gotten a lot smarter like his basketball IQ and his feel for the game got better which again i give credit to casey on that one because it's it's not like just playing against better competition for 82 nights is going to just do that automatically. So, I mean, it was good. And I think the shooting was a lot better than expected. The mid-range game was better than expected.

The defense sucked, but so did everybody else's. So I can't be super critical of that yet. And the one thing that we think about, and I've said this before in places is that, you know, it's great when guys do well. But I have to be able to think of you doing well in the context of Kate Cunningham being on the floor for me to believe you can be a piece of this puzzle. And so, like, we saw that start of the season, And the games where Cade played,

Jade and Ivey was very good. And he was very efficient. And he was able to kind of feed off of him and be that second guy. He doesn't need to be the alpha guy. Whereas I think other guys in this team, another point guard on this team, only plays well when he is the guy.

So I think that's a good thing too. I think that shows that he's able to be the Robin, the Cade's Batman in that back court too. Yeah, that was going to be essential. Absolutely. Fit with Cade was a big consideration for me

doing draft analysis last year for anybody. My opinion is that, and I still hold it, that Paulo would not have been a very good fit with Cade. And the reason that I had Matherin as 1A over Ivy, who was my 1B, was because whereas I thought that Matheron's ceiling was not as high as Ivy's, I thought that just in terms of fit with Matherin projecting as a strong offball player,

he stood a better chance at providing the same value. And Ivy really is, this season really dispelled that concern for me in terms of this fit with Cade. He is, you know, significantly improved as a shooter. He's even shown some motion three points potential, which was entirely unexpected for me. He's a very aggressive off-ball mover. You know, he's just, he's showing a lot more off the ball. He's also just, he's very willing to play the role that has asked of him.

I was afraid he was going to come in and beat this guy who's like, I want to beat the dude and just attack the basket in every play. Yeah, no, I thought that too. And I thought that it would be a rough transition for him to go from being the guy at Purdue to beating that guy and he, you know, just showed his ability to fit the role. And I think, you know, that's one thing. I don't want to get ahead of the, you know, ourselves here, but that's just one thing where if, you know, the lottery balls fall the wrong way and the Pistons get the second pick,

I think that he, Scoot Henderson and Cade could work as well because of the things we just talked about with his, you know, malleability in terms of filling whatever role. But in general, I really just think like offensively, you know, what he was showing there at the end, that Chicago game aside where he really struggled. But the last 10 games or so, I think if you take that guy and you put him with the guy that Cade was at the end of last year, I think you've got a back court that, you know, offensively is in the top half of the league. Yeah, I'm hopeful, definitely.

It helps that they seem to really like each other, like genuinely like each other, which is cool. And, but I mean, Ivy just, he turned out, and like I said, Ivy, excuse me, Weber really drafts for character. but I didn't expect Ivy to come in and just be this like such like a good kid, I'll put it that way, just like really working hard to solve really whatever struggles he was having and to do them, then to make the right play and to do the right thing for the team and said all the right things in his, in his accident interview with the, well, not accident interview, he was interview with the press today.

Players doing kind of end of season press conference. So yeah, it was just great to see. And when I, when my excitement was really finally sealed was that. game against Miami when he just put a lot together against a very good defense like against Milwaukee it's like okay cool that's exciting but you're playing against a buck's team that is missing like one of the most dominant defensive players ever and also it's like all defensive caliber point guard it would have been guarding you but miami is a very good defensive team and that was just a very impressive game yeah no i mean i mean just even the one against uh you know the next night against

brooklyn two i mean 23 points and 10 assists there i mean you know the assist numbers at the end there him being able to, you know, maybe he wasn't the perfect point guard, but it's not, you don't look into, you know, eight, nine, ten assists. That's not something that everybody can do. I think that's one thing that when we look at basketball, we look at the guys, the caliber of players, the pistons have, a bad team has, you know, judge them on their own right because it's not like when we watch LeBron or KD or Luca where it's like, oh, he gets 10 assists every night. It's not that hard. No, it's really hard. And like, especially for rookies to go out there and do that. And that's to me what sets Ivy apart for Mathrin because I'm with you.

I thought he'd be a great fitness arcade. I loved his mentality. He's just like wants to go out there and rip your head off, which is great. Matherin, that is. But he doesn't do anything else. He rebounds the ball sometimes. He's not a creator. He's not a great shooter.

He did not shoot well at all this year, which I thought would be his strong suit, specifically from three. So I think he's going to be a really good player. I think he's going to be a great score. I don't know that he's going to really change the trajectory. trajectory of your team, but I think every team could use a player like Ben Mathura. So, you know, that's a win in itself, but it's not what you want with the top five, six, seven pick.

Yeah, I'm just, I'm really looking forward. And this is one of the things, like you said, yeah, you know, it's nice to have a break, perhaps from, but turn into a very grueling season. The same time, it's like, darn, man, it's going to be six months until we see Jaden Ivy and Kate Cunningham play together. And this is another thing about the Casey issue. I don't think Casey really has the imagination as an offensive. the coach to run two handlers together like that.

He's really bad at running two handlers together and it just getting the most out of his players on offense period. So I'm excited to have a new coach who's actually going to be able to exploit what these two can do together. Definitely. Yeah. So Jade and Ivy, yeah, I think we both agree that the number one bright spot of this season.

So there's one good. Let's move on to one bad. The injuries, otherwise known as Kate Cunningham. I mean, we already talked about that a bit. The injury bug hit the team pretty hard this year, not just Cade, also Isaiah Stewart, Isaiah Liver has missed a bunch of games. I mean, this is necessarily even very relevant,

but even the likes of Hamidudadioa missed quite a bit of time. And I don't know how much there is to say about this, but it was something that happened that had nothing to do with the character of the team, and that really kind of put a damper on the season. I think that injuries are a thing that every team deals with. And I think if you're in a different position than the Pistons were in, maybe you handle those injuries differently. I don't think Isaiah Stewart needed to sit out the entire season.

I think even Cade Cunningham, I believe his window to return would have been late March. So like if they were playing for something of consequence, I would have imagined he'd be back. He wouldn't have set out the whole year, obviously, because he's a competitor like that. And even Diallo, I mean, you know, I think his injury was kind of a freak thing. And he's an Iron Man who is a guy who probably won't be back who, you know, probably isn't on your list of people to talk about. But I really came around as a big fan of him by the end. I just think that, you know, you talk about, we talked about Sadie Bay, but some guys, it takes a while to accept their role. And I think Hami really found what makes him good.

And he leaned right into it. And I think guys who do that, the faster you do that, especially when you're not a star or someone who has the draft pedigree of a star, the faster you will get money and playing time. And, you know, you'll be noticed. So, you know, props to him, obviously, for that, you know, he was really good for them. for long stretches. And, you know, I think he's a new author. He's going to get paid, and I hope he does well wherever he goes, because, you know, I think he could be a good player for the Pistons in a world

where they don't have Victor Womenyama, but I don't think that's going to happen. Yeah, that's a different discussion. I think we should have another time because I'm not quite as high on Diallo within his current state of development with no shot. I mean, I was very high in terms of what I thought he could be at the NBA level if he could shoot, but he didn't. You know, he just hasn't made any progress. but yeah, definitely, definitely a discussion I'd like to have with you on another episode, hopefully, in the future.

So let's move on to the next good. You already mentioned him, Jalen Duren. Yeah, I mean, a guy who I had very low expectations for did not, you know, I wasn't super, I didn't watch a lot of Memphis until the tournament last year. So, you know, I saw what he was able to do and I thought that he kind of underperformed based on the competition he was playing because the American conference was not that great last year compared to what it was this year, for example. but you know he was a guy who came in had some flashy moments in summer league and i was like okay he has some some ability this could be good um but man i just think the the stuff that guys have said

about him and paul george was heaping praise on him the other day on his podcast and yeah you know in general he's gotten a lot of pub i think he's for being the youngest player in the NBA i think he exceeded all expectations and i mean just showed you a flash of what he could do every game and while maybe he's not ready to be like, you know, the defensive anchor of a team. I think he was getting better at that, but that was really a struggle for him. I think the offense, the finishing on the rim, the rim running, the rebounding, everything that he showed for being 19 is really good. And I think that he is firmly like that number three guy, one of the three guys in this roster

that I feel confident are, you know, going to be here for the long haul. Yeah, I was impressed as well. I mean, he definitely was raw to a degree. and stayed raw, but the guy is, and again, just another example of Troy, we were really focusing on character. There were some questions at Memphis, like, does this guy, you know, does he stay engaged, does he work hard? Not like sort of Andre Drummond pre-draft concerns. It wasn't like, does he care enough about basketball? That was never the question.

But it's like, is this guy able to stay engaged? Is he going to work hard at all times? And he really worked hard. And like Ivy, it seemed like he really focused on the areas he was given to improve. and yeah, I think that he's definitely got top 10 center potential. Yeah, it's funny that the guys who are big like that, it's just the big guys. And I understand the reason for it,

but it's funny that when people give that, like, does he care enough? Does he want to put the work in kind of thing? It's always the big man, which is just always been interesting to me. I guess it's because, you know, not all big men were built, were made mentally to play basketball.

They just were physically gifted the body. That's true. But I just, you know, it's just to play off that real quick. I mean, his top about the body, I mean, He was built for basketball from day one of arriving here, which is probably the reason he was able to adjust so quickly, just because he didn't need to get in the weight room. He will still need to, but he was able to hold his own from day one. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know if the team's going to want him to add any more muscle. I mean, like 610, 250 at his probably like 5% body vets. I mean, I don't know if you want to add any more mess than that. Like, same with Isaiah Stewart might just slow you down. I mean, he can basically bang with anybody in the pain at this point, aside from like the possible exception of Yokichum. You know, aside from Joel Unbeat, I'm not sure if there's anybody who can really, who can really keep Yokic in one place. Right.

It's amazing. Like, I've mentioned this in the pod before. I've had, you know, I've been lucky to go sit courtside a couple times at ball arena when the Pistons have been in town. And Yokic can just body anybody out of the way. And I watched, like, Marvin Bagley was starting in that game. And I was like, okay, well, hopefully Darn will come in and things will go a little bit better. And of course, things are only going to go better to a certain extent because it's Yolkich,

who does things that show. should be impossible. But yeah, it's just to say that he'll just take that, you know, that massive rear end of his and just pound, you know, and that's not a good way of putting it, you know, pound or ram it and other guys is not really the verbiage I'm looking for. Basically, he'll just back you down really effectively, even if you're Isaiah Stewart and have a very low center of gravity and, you know, whatever the case. Yeah, he throws his weight around, yes. He knows that it throws weight around very effectively. So, but during, yeah, you're right, 100%, like absolutely physically ready for the NBA.

And when I was looking at him in the in the pre-draft days, and I thought, okay, this is a guy if the Pistons get a second pick, could be a good option, as long as you believe in his development on offense, because I thought he was going to be a very good defender, you know, who's got good instincts, very, well, his instincts he needs to work on. But he's very switchable. He's very long.

He can stay in a good defensive stance while, while moving laterally, even against faster players. And he's highly athletic. As long as you believe in him just being able, to refine his offense, I thought, then he's a good pick. And I think it could be a top 10 center. As long as just that defensive decision-making, it's always a question about a player. It's a question of a bigger question about like James Wiseman or Marvin Bagway. I believe for Duren that it's just that he's raw at this point, that he's having

struggles with decision-making on offense, on defense rather. I think he gets those together. It could easily be like a top-10, maybe in top-five defensive center. Yeah, he's got a massive ceiling, and I can't wait to see how that develops with Kate out there. Because actually, you know, it's funny is Cade, Jaden Ivey, and Jalen Dern have yet to play on the floor at the same time in an NBA game. Really? Nope, they never did. They never got a chance to do it because they were bringing Durance along so slowly at the start. They were juggling like all the different rotations.

So that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out too. You know, I'm sure that will be the starting lineup next year. So we'll get to know right off of that. But, you know, that's another little fun tidbit. Yeah. And Jalen Dern, I mean, we both know Kate in particular who lives in the high picking role. I mean, Ivy, you know, picking rolls good for him, not quite as good. But for Kate, it's super important.

Jayden, excuse me, Jalen Durant sets very hard screens. He rolls the basket hard. He's got really good verticality. And hopefully the next coach won't disdain vertical spacing like Dwayne Casey always has. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing he and Kate put it together. I feel like needs to work on his finishing in terms of laying the ball up. But I'm excited. You know, I'm excited for his future.

And I think he was a real bright spot. Unfortunately, one of the other bigs on the roster move on to, next. You know, we go back to the negative side of things was Marvin Bagley, who, who kind of, yeah, he had a fairly strong offensive end of the season with Cade, but things really didn't come together for him on either end this year. No, I think, you know, I think the way they built this team, I think he's, you know, not for the long here, but I think, uh, you know, I was the guy who saw the value he had with Cade last year as like a lob threat and a vertical spacer and things. And I think that still exists. He has great chemistry with Cade. And I think, uh, that's worth something.

but I just don't know that you need that guy, especially if things go right and Victor is on this team next year too. I don't think that makes any sense. And, you know, people say I think his contract will be hard to trade at $13 million per year. But I'm not really, I don't believe that because if you look at the salaries of most NBA guys, like to get anything of value,

you need to have big contracts to trade. You need to have money to move into someone else's cap space. And I think he offers enough. basketball sense as an offensive score and player to be able to serve some value in a trade where you're bringing back a bigger salary. And so I don't think he's like some poison pill. It's not like $13 million a year is anywhere near the unmovable amounts of money that Rudy Goberra makes where it's like $55 million a year.

Oh, that guy. Yeah, that's another story. Oh, boy. I don't know. I mean, I think he's, I think Marvin's a player who has a, you know, is going to be a good stats bad team guy for for his whole career unfortunately yeah i think that like my opinion of marvin is i don't think he's going to get there on defense i i think he's just one of those guys who just has a low IQ ceiling and that that's always going to be a struggle point for him and that he's never

going to be able to be able to play defense at center i mean he did any time we've seen him on the floor at center on defense pistons i mean they've just gotten completely scourged but like he came back this season i really expected that over the summer you know the guy would have just put every single bit of time he could into expanding his offensive game, like particularly in shooting. I feel like his guy who needs to be a good shooter, he needs to provide good offensive value. And I feel like he came back and pretty much looked exactly the same as he did last season. That was disappointing for me. Yeah, he was the same guy.

I think that's kind of where he's at. I mean, he's young, but I think we've got enough of a sample size to know what he is. And, you know, I made a joke that he splashed a couple threes down the stretch there against Chicago. And I was like, oh, he saved all of his threes for the last game of the year. I'll be honest. I know we made like 12, 13 this year. And I watch every game. I don't remember seeing any of them.

They happened, but I don't, my eyes did not see them happen. So, you know, if he figures that out, obviously, that changes his calculus entirely. But, you know, four years in, and he's a, you know, coming off a year where he shot sub 30% from three, I mean, you know, for that shot to matter,

he's got to be at at least 33, 34%, which is a gigantic increase. And, you know, The other thing, too, I think, is he can score, but, you know, when he gets the ball at the high post or around the three point line and he kind of gets in that triple threat and he surveys the floor, you know, he's not looking for someone to pass to, even if someone's open. He's just looking for his lane because that dude is going to shoot the ball. So, you know, there's some habits that are not habits. They are just part of your basketball DNA. And that's just the way he's going to be.

And that's just how some guys are. And sometimes you can get with it if you're good enough. And he's just not good enough to be that kind of a. a player yeah i agree yeah the guy who can ostensibly put up good stats but they're nowhere near as good as they look and you know i agree with what you said also that he's like i think he would be like a negative asset in a bigger deal for more salary but definitely he is salary the pistons don't have a lot of big salary on this team making trade away i mean no that boy on but but that's the only really rude i see to Marvin bagley ending up off his team and even if victor isn't even if the

pissons don't get lucky enough to get that first overall pick and they get that first overall pick, of course, Wiseman and Bagley. You know, what happens with them becomes largely irrelevant. Right, yeah. But, you know, even just having he and Wiseman on the team at the same time, they have such like a gross degree of overlap that it's like, I don't think that both of them can stay on this team. So it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Certainly. Yeah. So back to the good. So the vets, Alec Berks and Blamberg Donovich, who I feel like you can make the argument but the two best players in the team this season. Yeah, I mean, I would say that's true for Boyon specifically. I mean, we talked about his limitations defensively, but I think he still is, you know, one of the 10 best shooters in the league.

And I think his game was stretched to its limits this year. I think we learned a lot about what he's capable of, which is good. You know, my thing with this is that I don't think they should trade him because he is a good player and they do not have many of those. But, you know, I just wondered if a guy who's in his early 30s, you know, even if he hasn't played since he was, you know, 14 years old, playing professional basketball in Europe, I just wonder how much of a drop-off are we going to see from him as this team continues to build.

And, you know, that's my concern. But I think shooters are going to keep shooting and be valuable regardless. And I think you take him and you put him on the floor with Ivy and Kade, and then you find the right front court pairing. And you've got a team that's going to score very, very well. Whether it will defend is another question. you know, to be where the Pistons want to be in terms of competing and winning some games, you know, if you can outscore people, you can be good enough to compete for the play in,

and that's what they want to do. So I think that's the next logical step because they're not going to take the worst defense and make it the best defense overnight, you know? Yeah. I mean, Boyon, I knew he was a good score, but my thought was, you know, he's coming onto the Pistons. I did a trade recap episode, actually, with Jack Kelly back in, I think it was back in September. and what I said was, okay, he put up close to 20 points per game with the jazz, but he didn't have, you know, he didn't have anywhere near as much offensive responsibility

there. You know, he had Donovan Mitchell, for example, who was occupying most of the attention. And he was free to just take a lot of open threes. So I said, I wouldn't expect he'd score that many points in the pistons. Instead, he got a bigger role. And he proved to be like a genuine three-level score, like very, very effective. He was bad on defense, but as a score, he was very impressive. Yeah, I think, I mean, I didn't think.

he could handle as much as he did. So on one hand, that is good. But I think, you know, like I said, in the end, I think we know what he's capable of and what he's not capable of. And, you know, I think, I just wonder how he fits with this team as they like, you know, because everyone says, let's just bring off the bench. But like, bad teams don't bring $23 million players off the bench. That's just not the way, you know, to not use a money ball term,

but that's not how you buy wins. So I'm just interested to see. how he fits into this as they try and reshape things. But, you know, he, regardless, he's good. And I think Alec Berks was fine. He's good. He would play for anybody. He would be good on any of these playoff teams.

I just wonder how the heck he's going to, like, you know, the thing I'm very interested to see is, you know, with Alec, Killian Hayes, Ivy, Kade, you know, those four, there are not many minutes remaining for those four players. Yeah. Talk about the two guys who are starting. So I don't know how that's going to work. It wouldn't surprise me if Berks ended up being more of a backup point guard and they moved down for the Killian or something.

I don't know. That's just the thing that I thought of a lot when he was playing. And now I'm kind of thinking about it again now that, you know, we've reached the end of this. Yeah, I think that Berks is the perfect veteran to bring off the bench. I mean, you can flex him up to small forward as well. I mean, he's played a decent size. He's played a fair number of minutes at the position throughout his career.

Of course, he can easily be overpowered by certain power forwards in the league. But he's just like the perfect bench veteran who can come out there and create a certain amount of offense off the dribble. He's an elite floor spacer. Like he's a savvy veteran. He works hard. He's a decent enough defender. You know, he can make some passes.

Like Tom Divido tried to make him point guard and that didn't work. But he can give you enough of a veteran running the offense thing, but he's not going to go out there and create offense for others. So like I think that's something that like you look at the pistons basically starting, you know, a pair of point guard-ish guys in Cade and Ivy. I think the good thing is that Alex Berks can play with both of them, and he can occupy a ball handler role if they want to score, or he can be the score if they're going to be the on-ball creator.

So, like that he's just so versatile offensively that I think, you know, they'd be crazy to not really lean into that next year as they try and actually do something. Yeah, even if nothing else, I mean, it's just he provides elite shooting, which any team can use. And definitely this team, definitely this team is your, we're just desperately hoping to have better floor spacing for Cade and for Ivy. And yeah, when it comes to Boyon, yeah, I mean, I think it's worth noting that his contract in 2024, 2025 is only guaranteed for what, like 3 million, I think, 3 or 4 million. Yeah.

So it's just next season when he's definitely under contract. And, yeah, I think they just want him because he can score. I think that if you put him on the floor with, I mean, who knows who's going to end up being the other forward. I don't think, I think the team would prefer not to go into next season with Isaiah Stewart starting a power forward. But let's just say, like, that's the best possible outcome, in my opinion. at least happens and the pistons pick up Jeremy Grants, then, you know, the higher the quality of the defense around him, the less his defensive is an issue. But, you know, it's going to hurt no matter what. You bring him off the bench. I agree, it's unlikely to happen. But at the same time, it's like you give him a lesser role than the impacts, the negative impact of his defense is amplified.

Yeah, for sure. All right. So let's move on to the final, I'd have to call it negative of the season. I know it's been a little bit controversial. But in my opinion, it was a disappointing season. season for Killian Hayes? Well, I can see that fully. I would say it was a positive season for Killian Hayes because my expectations were as low as humanly possible. So when you expect nothing, anything is good. And I would say that that's kind of the situation with him. You know, obviously, I think overall,

you look at the numbers, people are really, there's a very loud vocal minority of Killian Hayes. fans out there who are, you know, I think attached to him because he's a kid who kind of was the first piece of this rebuild and he wanted to do well and I understand that stuff. And, you know, obviously I want him to be a good basketball player. That would be superb. But, you know, I just, you know, I feel like we've seen enough and we've seen him get all these different off-seasons of work. And I just, I don't always see the fruits of the labor. Until this year, he did show obviously a lot more refined game when it comes to attacking opposing defenses and trying. And

trying to score and things of that nature. And that was, you know, obviously good. I think his defense is always solid. I don't think he's the lockdown defender we hoped he would be, but I think he is a productive one on the team that did not have very many. And I think his playmaking, obviously, some of the passes he makes, you can see that he's an NBA caliber passer. But I think to be successful in this league, you have to either be a good shooter,

a great finisher, or an athletic guy who can score in that mid-range. and he does score in the midrange, but like I don't think that that's a sustainable lifestyle for him in the NBA, especially as Kate Cunningham, who is the king of the midrange on this team, and Boyan Bogdanovich, who loves the midrange, and Jaden Ivy, who loves him, you know, there's a lot of guys who are trying to get the ball in that spot.

And if he's out there and he's not able to just, you know, get to the 15-foot area and, you know, do his little pull-up, I don't know what he does because he doesn't get to the room and score. He can score when he gets there, but he just doesn't get close enough. And I don't think he's, you know, the jump shot, I, I, I, some days he goes out there and he hits two threes. Sometimes he goes two weeks without hitting one.

And I'm just like, you know, at some point, you know, you've taken what, how many, 200 or what, 5253s and he's at 27% for his career. Yeah. Like, that's a healthy diet of shots. And like I said, a number of off seasons of work to get there. And I just don't see the, you know, I don't. see the fruits of it. And I mentioned this earlier and I've made a point of it is that he's the guy when he is out there as a starter or the main, you know, playmaker. You can see that his play picks up,

his energy is better, his mentality is aggressive. But when he's coming off the bench or when he's not that guy, he doesn't have the same energy. So next year, I mean, like I said, with Burke's being there and Cade coming back, like there's maybe 10 or 12 minutes there for him if he's around. And I just wonder, like are you going to be the same guy in 12 minutes per game as you are when you play 30 minutes and you get to shoot 15, 16 times and you have the ball in your hands because, you know, that's a different thing. And like it goes back to the Sadiq Bay thing is, you know, do you want to fill your role or do you want to be the guy that you always dreamed of being? And, you know, I think he's got to make a break point where he's got to make that decision or else he's not going to be here

for the long haul. Yeah, I agree. I think that there are certain skills he just needs to improve. he wants to be in the NBA for the long haul at all. So I agree. If going in on the basis of last seasons, like expectations based on last season's performance and he was the horrendous last seasons, he did improve. So what hurts me about Killian is that there's definitely a good NBA player in there,

super smart, like a really high IQ, a really good passer, like great vision, still needs to work on. I mean, he manages to get away without passing with his right hands. And if he could just shoot threes, I mean, he wouldn't be the point guard. I know the Pistons brought him in ostensibly as the point guard of the future. Even then, unless he can actually attack the rim, which he is not even willing to try to do. I just don't see it.

He can't break down defenses right now. But if he could just become like a high 30s, three point shooter on high volume, NBA player, absolutely. Maybe not a starter, but a long-term rotation player even on a playoff team. But that's a big if. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think I've made the comparison before. I mean, I don't remember what year it was. maybe it was last year or the year before that even, but like trying to figure out, you know,

what is what does Killian Hayes look like as an NBA player? Because, you know, I don't know what the answer to that is because I can't figure out if he even is one yet. But like, you know, then I was thinking, can he be, can he go out there and serve the Marcus smart role of being a defensive-minded guard who's not a point guard? He's not a shooting guard. But he goes out there and, you know, impacts the game in ways that, you know, supersede his role. role. And I think people are still cleaning to that a little bit. And Marcus Smart was a terrible shooter who got to being just bad. He shoots, he's a decent catch and shoot guy. He shoots about 36% on catching shoots. But my thing with Smart, and this is not a shot at Killian, this is more of a

credit to Marcus Smart, who's always like my god, if the pistons hadn't traded Ben Gordon for Corey McGettie, he would have been a piston. But, you know, he has some sort of innate ability to just make his team better. Boston is just better because of Mark is smart. The Detroit Pistons are not just better because of Killing Hayes and all the intangibles he brings. So it's not a fair comparison either way. But I think you're right.

If he makes threes, he has a role. He has a career. If he does not make threes, I don't see how he can, how this is going to work for him no matter where. And I mean, some people will say, like, oh, man, if they let Killing Hayes walk, I fear he's going to be like the next Spencer Dinwiddie. But like, it's, I don't, I don't think that that's something you can worry about at this point, especially Dimwedy was a different situation than Killian Hayes.

Killing Hayes got all the opportunity in the world to show you he was good and he struggled to do it. Yep. Dinwiddie was the opposite. He never got the opportunity to show what he could do. And once he left, it was like, oh, shit, he's actually good. So, you know, apples and oranges. I'm not really concerned about that. I think, you know, I'm just interested to see how he fits in the future because, like I said,

there's a lot of changing, and I mean, especially if they get Scoot, I mean, he's done. He's out of here. Oh, yeah. But like, in general, I just wonder if there's even a real productive spot for him to be a top eight or nine guy of this team next year, a bad team, you know, a bad business team at that. Yeah. Yeah, there's just, there's no place in the league these days for a guy who is a massive offensive minus as a score.

I mean, the NBA these days is just so intolerant to that weakness. Yeah, when it comes to market smart, I agree it's not an apt comparison. And I mean, smart, he brings this kind of combination of being like this beefy dude who can defend four positions to being like in like the top 1% of hard workers in the NBA. The guy is greasy. Like he, he will put his body on the line anywhere. And you're right, he brings all these intangibles. Killing, meanwhile, is afraid of any contact on the offensive ends.

Yeah, I mean, like, is not the defender either that's smartest. No, it's like, you know, I think to be like a Marcus smart, you've got to be more of like a Lughey Dort in Oklahoma City who's a guy who just, you know, has the ability to change the game on the defensive end, whereas Killing Hayes is just a good defender, which is fine, you know, but you need to be able to do that to be able to play. But I think, you know, we're reaching a point where, like, you got to be able to do stuff that helps the team win. And I think he does that at times, but I just, I don't know how, and like I said, it all goes back to my thing with him is I understand that you like playing basketball more when you are the guy. what he needs to figure out if he wants to play basketball in the NBA as not the guy. And if that's not going to be the case, it's not going to happen here because he is already

the number three, you know, point guard. So, you know, we'll see how that works. Yeah, we will. It's definitely a big summer for him. So, yeah, I think we're just about reaching the end here. You have any closing thoughts? No. You know, a lot of fun to unpack this mess of the season.

Yeah. You know, I'm excited for the playoffs to really watch teams that are actually enjoyable and good at basketball. Fair enough. And I think, you know, with the coaching thing, I think it's going to be really interesting to see, you know, once the lottery balls are chosen how this goes, because I think the pistons are going to have a pretty good job as is. And I think if they luck out in May and get the number one pick, they will have the job.

So, you know, I think they've got a bright future. I just don't know if it's next year or two years or more. but I think people who expect them to be like a playoff contender next year are going to be disappointed barring Victor Womenyama, you know, arriving and being good off of that. Yeah, it would be a huge leap, like an unprecedented leap with the pistons, to go from where they are right now to a playoff team, especially, but I think it's going to be an ultra-competitive east.

But it'll be interesting to see when we definitely get a big offseason ahead of us too. So in any case, Brady, I want to thank you for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure to have you. Awesome. No, thank you, man. I appreciate this is a lot of fun. Yeah, absolutely. Hope we can do it again sometime.

So that'll be it, folks. As always, want to thank you all for listening. Catch you in the next episode.