Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 144: 2023 Draft Profiles - An In-Depth Look at Victor Wembanyama

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

This episode, the fourth in the 2023 Draft series, takes an in-depth look at consensus first-overall pick Victor Wembanyama, one of the most touted prospects to enter the draft in decades. 

Welcome back, everybody. You're listening to another episode of Drive Into the Basket. I am Mike, joined once again by Price for the fourth of the draft series. This one about the French unicorn Victor Wambaynama, whom, I don't know. You could, I don't know if you in Vegas, but what you bet on who is going number one, you could probably bet a million dollars on Victor and make a dollar out of it. Anyway, yeah, first of all, Price, great to have me on the show. It's been a blast doing these draft episodes with you. Oh, pleasure's all mine. I mean, you know, hopefully this is the last one. we got to do for this cycle.

Yeah, that is the hope. I mean, there's always, you know, stuff to consider about, you know, if the Pistons get themselves another first-time draft pick, I don't think it's particularly likely. You know, they don't really necessarily have the means to acquire one, I think, this year. But that's a different story. Of course, we're back here next week during more draft profiles than something has gone tragically wrong.

Yeah, because I feel like the only other player you can maybe make a case for going number three, you know, the top three that we, well, we've done him too. It would be Amen Thompson. Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of Cam Whitmore buzz that's, you know, crawling around on online, Reddit, Facebook, Discord, Yahoo, I don't even know. So other than him, I think that's, that's pretty much the top four or five. Yeah. Now, I'd be shocked if Cam Whitmore went, you know, went number three. And I mean, yeah, I'd be shocked if that happened. Somebody would have to be really, really high on him. Even then, I think a team would just trade down and say, here, you take Brandon Miller and we'll get something out of the bargain and take Cam Whitmore number four.

Yeah, maybe even us. I'd be surprised if the business traded down from number three, but who knows, maybe if they find out that Brandon Miller was in fact culpable on somebody being murdered. Well, of course, then maybe you have a team like Charlotte who think, oh yeah, you know, we're totally fine with players of absolutely horribly questionable ethics and having them on our team because all we care about is winning, of course, yeah, I guess the Miles Bridgers thing is something maybe to talk about in the offseason. I think that was just an absolutely shameful decision by the NBA, but that's an entirely different story. We're talking about the draft today.

All right, so let's get to it. One week till the lottery, it's Tuesday night, a week from when this episode is recorded will be, I believe, about three, two or three hours past knowing where the pistons will pick. And I've got to be honest, I'll be satisfied if the pistons are picking three or higher. Yeah, I mean, I'm pumped at one, two, or three, and then four or five, I've rationalized myself into accepting what will be available, but I'll be a little less enthused for sure. Yeah, definitely. I'm almost kind of dreading it at the moment. Fair enough.

In any case, let's get to the man, Victor Wimbenyama, considered by many to be one of the best prospects to come into the NBA ever. So 7 foot 3, it's hard to tell whether that's with or without shoes. He says it's without shoes. Of course, Kate Cunningham said he was 6-7 without shoes, and we know that's not true. Eight foot wingspan. It'll be the longest in the NBA, I mean, unless counting Taco Fall, who I don't think is on a second round. Excuse me, on a two-way contract anymore. I don't think he has any association with the league.

You want to talk to Mo Bamba from 2018. I talked about his game-changing length. It's two inches. Bombas around 7-10, so Victor is longer than that. I didn't notice until today, actually, that Kevin McHale had an 8-foot wingspan at 6'10. Wow. Yeah, pretty impressive. And, yeah, I mean, I'm just going to take a slight acey here because I love talking about this.

Like, the bad boys get this particular sort of rap for playing kind of like a highly physical, sometimes actually blatantly dirty style. Nobody remembers, except for people around back then, the Celtics with Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parrish, all of whom were goons, like super dirty players. and that they walked off the court and didn't shake the piston's hands. One of the pistons knocked them out the first time, and that had been 1987 before they played against 88, before they played against the Lakers, whatever. And then Kevin McHale went on to be the coach for the Rockets who just constantly hacked the Andre Jordan in 2015.

It was not fun to watch. Oh, that was also, he was the coach when Andre Drummond took the most free throws in the history of the NBA. I think I loved tagging people. Anyway, keep getting sidetracked here. Victor is 220 to 230, about 19 and a half. at the time of the draft. Comes out of LNB Pro A League, which is the top league in French men's basketball.

This is his third year in the league. He's played in the EuroLeague tournament once, didn't do well. But he started around 16 and a half. That's quite young, about a year before a second in Boia started, and I believe was the same league. So stats this year, 21.5 points, 10 rebounds, 2 and a half assists. One steal, three blocks, two and a half turnovers, about two follows per game, 58% true shooting. So very, very, very, very, very, very, very heralded prospect, the likes of which I think you could argue has never come into the NBA.

So let's kick it off with just the physical pros here. And, you know, whatever, I can make another joke about not knowing what you're going to say, but I know what you're going to say. Oh, you know, to the shock of all or the shock of some, Victor Weniam is an absolute freak in terms of his mobility at his size. it is completely without comparison to maybe like any player ever. Yeah, just all of the guys who are really tall and athletic are, you know, at least two or three inches shorter than him. Yeah.

Yeah, his size and his wingspan, you know, coupled with very good mobility and agility. It's an incredible combination. I mean, the guy is very tall. He's extremely long. He's got crazy stride length. I mean, he's agile enough to, you know, to do good things on the ball, to reposition in the interior. He uses it expertly, too. Yeah, I mean, that's defensively, his athleticism is so impressive.

Like, we're going to come to the offense first, but just the ability to sort of adapt to his positioning on the floor, on a just a dime at his size, the length to recover, the shot blocking, it's all there. Yeah. And of course, being 7 foot 3-ish with an 8-foot wingspan makes you a pretty strong rebounder by default. I would say about his athleticism. He's definitely not an explosive athlete, but at his size, just being, you know, good enough, is more than enough. Again, his stride length, you know, really will make up for the lack of an explosive first

step. I mean, just his ability to get up to speed and to get to the basket fast and to reposition fast. His lateral movement is okay. I mean, if you get past him, he's just going to block you anyway. So, yeah, very, very, very impressive, especially in the context of what we are going to talk about very soon in terms of what he can do. The cons, I would say, let's talk about injuries later in the episode. That's, that I think is the major concern for many. It would be the major concern for me. Another one is weight. So some players, you know, Victor is, again, about 7'3 between 220 and 230. He's still pretty slight and not everybody can gain weight.

You know, it's a question of how much weight he'll be able to gain. Like Janus was able to gain a ton. It was able to pack on just a ton of muscle. But it really just depends on the player where you're sealing in that aspect is going to be. And if he stays around this weight, it'll be exploited to a degree. Could also lessen a short way, a shell play. Yeah, exactly. This is kind of the Chet Holmgren sort of discussion being replayed again.

for this year. For those who don't remember or didn't, weren't following, Chet Holmgren, drafted by Oklahoma City Thunder. Second overall, didn't play this year due to injury, not necessarily related to his size, but that's like a concern. A huge concern. Yeah. Yeah.

And he's very, very slight of frame, even more so than Victor Wambayama. He's a couple inches shorter, a couple inches less long. but nonetheless, he's an example of this body type that has recently been drafted, and historically, this body type has seen a lot of injuries. And that's sort of the big concern is how will Victor be able to handle the NBA workload and NBA stress at his size and his length? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and like I said, we'll get to this a little bit later in the episode.

Yeah, Chet is a skeleton, like an extreme ectomorff. And there are some players who just come into the league. They can eat and train all they want and just cannot put on the weight. I mean, everybody is ultimately at the mercy of their genetics. So let's move on to offense. And there's a lot to say here. There's a lot to say in the pro sections on both sides of the floor. So this is going to take a little bit, you know, take a little while if you get to listen to

why this guy is just such an incredible prospect, you know, the likes of which in terms of this particular skill set, again, has never been seen in the NBA before. So everything we say here should be contextualized. by at his size, at 7 foot 3. At his size, which he uses expertly. And I think just to throw an umbrella statement over it is at his size, with his mobility, with his agility, just his sheer versatility on offense, all the things he can do.

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous, the flexibility that he has as both, he can do a lot of the stuff that a traditional big does where, you know, you want to get him down low and let him, you know, catch, catch dunks or lobs or stuff like that. He can do that. But that's just the very, very tail end of his offensive capability. On the ball, this is a tremendous player. He's got great handle for his size, good security, even though, obviously, with such a high dribble, he'll definitely be targeted. by the players even in his league like he's playing in a men's league as a teenager it's

yeah also very important to remember that um and then you have the feel the ability to gain separation um again not a super explosive athlete but that that's not really relevant when you're taking such big strides and being able to relocate being able to um find the soft spots of the defense And once he gains even just a little bit of room, his threat to be a absolute nightmare of a pull-up shooter is completely game changing. Because I don't even know who's going to be able to block him. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what I come back to, I don't know what I come back to. I mean, just to sum up, like, yeah, there's the shooting potential is there.

The attacking off the dribble is there. I mean, I could go down the list here, you know, finishing face-up game four. is pick and roll, exploiting mismatches. But, yeah, we'll stick to, like, what I'd start with, attacking off the dribble. We mentioned his stride length. We mentioned his agility. He's got great touch. You can attack an isolation.

You know, you get a smaller guy switched on to him. They're finished. Somebody's going to have to come help, and he might be able to just score over them. And you mentioned the shooting potential. Like, he's got, yeah, he's got major upside. You know, we've seen it as an off-the-drivel shooter on pull-ups. You can do it in the post from the post. he can do it, you know, while facing up.

And his shot is unblockable. It's high plus the high release point. And when you've got a guy who's 7 foot 4 who can either attack you off the dribble and beat you to the basket or just pull up and shoot over you, I mean, there aren't a lot of good options for trying to stop him. You know, we've done a one-on-one basis. It's going to be extraordinarily difficult to keep him from getting what he wants or getting something that he can score at least.

Right. And then, of course, that's just what he can do on the ball. He also is, I think, a threat to be an off-ball shooter. And if we get him on motion, he's skilled enough to be able to make some of those shots. And if he is a reliable motion shooter, then it's like good night because that's a mismatch with an elite shooter, even if they're a foot shorter than he is. But he's seven foot three or above. it's just that's that is not not only is it going to be simply unguardable just because if if he gets elevated it's good good luck you know

getting even a hint of a contest but if he's already got space into one of his comfort zone spots like boom it's over yeah if you guys haven't haven't already watch the highlights from the game that his team played against the juleg night it was a juleg preseason game. And I mean, he shot extremely well from three in that game. And, you know, his percentage overall on the year wasn't, you know, quite as good, of course, you know, to say the least, he was in the low 30s on a difficult shot diet. But you see his ability to relocate around the perimeter at his size, set his feet quickly and then shoot. Saw some step back potential there. And I mean, you're barely going to be blocking a Victor 3 regardless. But a step back three, of course, you know, that's, it's just another thing in his tool set. I mean, he's mobile. He's absolutely got

potential as a motion shooter on and off the ball. And again, we're talking about a guy who's seven foot three. I mean, I need to continue coming back to that. You know, he's got the mobility, the agility, and he's got the size. Yeah, as an off ball player, for sure, I mean, could be an elite role man. Like, you know, he can pop, of course, you know, send him around a screen to shoot the ball. You know, as a role man, you're always going to be able to get this guy the ball. I mean, you're never going to have to worry about that. He's like, he's an amazing vertical spacer. He barely even has to jump. And again, he's just got great touch. the weight of the rim. You get him the ball in an advantageous position. His touch is amazing. His size

is great. He's going to score. And if he's, you know, if you can just get him the ball near the rim period, which you're going to have no trouble doing, he's going to score it. Just that combination of size and touch. If he needs to spin around somebody, then he'll do it. Yeah. Even, I'd say, I'd argue even has some upside potentially as a handler in the pick and roll, which would be a complete and utter absolute nightmare for anybody trying to stop that with Victor coming around a pick set by a big. Yeah, that's exactly the type of play. that we're talking about he can play not just as a five because of his size he can play down the lineup he can be that sort of next evolution or freak aberration whatever you want to call it of that

jumbo wing this is like the the jumboest of jumbo wings where it's like oh what do we even do to guard this this person at this the size with this amount of skill with this amount of basketball all smarts. He's also a really smart player. Yeah. That's the real X factory. He's not just a physical freak. He also can use all of the physical tools he's been gifted.

That's why he's this one of one. Among one of ones. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, you mentioned his handle, which, you know, it's not like an elite handle, but again, at his size, it's absolutely amazing, gives him enough to just another way for him to exploit what he's given, what he's been given in terms of his. basketball. You know, his basketball ability and his size can run the floor well in transition. And again, I'll go back to the post. I mean, of course, that's a tough thing to make efficient in the

NBA. But, I mean, you find a mismatch for Victor, you know, I mean, this mismatch is screwed. You might have somebody who's like six foot three on him. And, you know, and then you're, then you're in trouble. I don't remember if this was last episode of the episode before when I was talking about Nate Robinson getting posted up on by Sean Livingston, you know, who had about a, probably about eight inches on him. More than that, actually, I think about 10 inches. I mean, you could genuinely see a mismatch like that, probably on a semi-regular basis with Victor when he matches up.

But somebody who was like 6-4, 6-5, which is crazy. Yeah, hopefully it's in practice with Jay and Ivy. Yeah, you'd hope so, for sure. But, you know, we continue to go on down the list here, which we could talk about this. And I feel like we could talk about this for an hour and not properly do justice just how much potential he has. has on the offensive end.

I don't feel like we're properly doing him justice. I mean, we're gushing about this guy, but it's just tough to, like, go watch him play, like watch Victor play, and go look at highlights. It's tough to capture just how much this guy has. But, you know, if I'm going to talk about a little bit more, his hands are great, awesome at catching the ball. This guy does not drop many passes. And, like, the offensive rebounding goes without saying is there.

I mean, again, when you're seven foot three and you've got a seven foot wing span, it's going to be helpful. And think, like, Bobon, for those of you who had the misfortune, whatever, of watching during those years. Like, Bobon, who barely even needed to jump to get the ball or to dunk. And I'd say Victor is a little bit taller than Bobon. Of course, about, like, a million times more mobile. So basically, yeah, what it is, I mean, you take this guy in all that he has to offer.

I mean, if he gets it together, he's on guard him. Yeah, like a complete and utter mismatch pretty much at every possible scenario with his skills. size combo. It's yeah just isn't isn't necessarily possible for um even the complete aberration elite elite elite elite athletes that we have in the NBA to guard. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, assuming that this pull-up jump shooting comes along in particular. Right. Right. Yeah. So, but I mean, you think about the situations you can put him in and there's at this point again, if he reaches his upside, there's basically going to be nothing he's not good at. It's like even if you toss him off the ball. I mean, you've got so many, in addition, what he can do on the ball.

I mean, I know I'm moving back, but you got to worry about everything you can do off the ball between, you know, vertical spacing, running as the role man. You know, even just as a spot-up shooter, like if he's shooting a good percentage on catching shoots, I mean, you've got to close out on him. And if you close out on him, and you're finished. I mean, he can, he's kind of like Janus in this respect. I mean, he can get to the basket real fast. And if he gets up ahead of steam, you're pretty much screwed. Maybe you try to take a charge. But there are going to be very, very few guys, very few even elite room protectors in the NBA who can do much to stop him, especially given the touch he has.

So again, I know that we could talk about this for a long time. I'm basically to the end of my list of pros, very extensive list of pros. You got anything to add? I mean, he can play above the rim and he can shoot the lights out from distance. It's not there yet. Not there yet, but the shooting form, and we'll get to this, looks good enough that you'll feel kind of. confident in the shot.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel pretty confident in the shot as well. Oh, yeah, this is what I was going to say. When you were talking about him playing down the lineup, did you know that Janus, when he came into the league in his first year, played primarily at shooting guard? I did.

Yeah. Pretty crazy. Yeah, and then he played gradually up the line. You know, he made his way up to small forward as he added weight, and then ultimately landed a power forward. Yeah. But, yeah. And Janus, when he came into the league, was about six foot nine.

He's about six, 11 and a half, or something like that. He gained two and a half inches. That's rare. Of course. That's very, very rare. But just interesting to think back to. All right. So, cons, I'll get us started here.

We just mentioned it. The shot isn't there quite yet. Correct. Yeah, he was in the low 30s in terms of overall three-point percentage. And, you know, of course, you know, it'd still be a great player if he wasn't, like, a really good three-point shooter. I think he'll get there. He's another one of those guys. Like, we talked to the contrast between Scoot and the Thompson twins or with Scoot.

or with scoot, it's like, you know, mediocre, you know, pretty relatively poor percentage, around 33%, but good form. Whereas with A.M.N. and Asar, it was bad percentage with hideous form. I feel like Victor's got good form. Yeah. And of course,

his looks are just going to naturally be easier than anyone else is on the court. It will be easy. Yeah. Yeah. It's, he's kind of a cheat code. And that is definitely the biggest sort of, con at the moment, which is that you don't see the consistent deep range shot, but the form looks

good. It's like, I think north of 85% as a free throw shooter this season. Not always, you know, direct one-to-one indicator, but with at least set shots in the NBA, they tend to function a lot like a free throw. So if he can do that well, and the form looks good there, hopefully that can translate out to distance, at least to an extent. And he can get up to a respectable number on three-point attempts. And then he can literally play anywhere you want on offense, inside out, outside in, just play and just watch the magic happen. Yeah.

I know what I forgot at the beginning of the episode, to share a shooting splits. Well, not share it on anybody can go look them up, but to stay-to-shooting splits. It's 47% in the field. But shot about seven, excuse me, about, what about two thirds of his shots from two-point range. Only 30% from three. Again, difficult shot diet. So, yeah, the shooting isn't quite there yet.

I think it'll get there. Another con. So he loves these pull-up jump shots. And the hope is that he'll be able to make those efficient in the NBA. There's no guarantee. I mean, you can really put all the time you want into those in these lower weeks when you get to the NBA. I mean, the NBA is tremendously more efficiency obsessed than any other league in the world. I mean, the margins are very, very thin.

Everybody's in on it. You can't choose to not play that game in terms of efficiency. Stan Van Gundy decided he was going to try to not play that game. Of course, didn't work too well for him. He refused to coach shot selection, for example, which was an act of insanity in the efficiency of spacing era. So he can resort to these pull-up jumpers instead of driving into the interior and using that size of his at times. He can resort to those. and there's not necessarily guarantee that those will work in the NBA.

I mean, if he's shooting low to mid-40s on them and he's taking a lot of them, that's a bad shot. So, you know, might find himself needing to kind of pick his battles with those and drive in a little bit more. And he's going to need more bulk also in order to do that banging down well against NBA caliber opposition to take advantage of that crazy frame of his. Definitely. Yeah.

And, you know, finally, I'd say his handle might not translate quite so well to the NBA. It'll be good enough. But if he tries to get too cute, I mean, again, you mentioned he has a high dribble. The ball's going to get swiped a lot if he tries to get too cute. He's not going to be able to do some of the things he did in the French league. Right. Yeah, he'll be punished. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely part of it where it's like we can't necessarily anoint him,

anoint him in the way that we would maybe like to, given how bullishly we're speaking, because there's still some growth areas. he still has room to improve and rounding out his game because again almost not just almost every teenager on the planet has room to improve not be earth-shattering news but shocking shocking and he has to do that do just the same with his basketball game and the conditioning can he be able to withstand the workload and he did play 40 games without injuries injury. Can he do B82 or get to the 70s or something like that without taking serious injury concerns at his rather slight frame? Also, you wonder how much is he really going to be able to

draw a lot of that contact down low that's so crucial for free throw gathering if he's constantly being pushed off of a point of attack given his relatively weak frame? Yeah. These are like nuances. That's what I want to say is that they're very nuanced critiques, but when you have a guy who has this level of potential, you literally have to get down to this, this nitty gritty to find areas of improvement. Yeah. I can be clear, like even if he never gets the shooting together at all, I mean, it could still be an elite player in the league. Yeah, easy. Yeah. He just would not be quite as good as he could be otherwise. It would not be quite as unstoppable. I'm not as concerned about him getting pushed off as a point of attack guy as long as he's built up ahead of steam.

But if he's in the post, yeah, I mean, he's not going to be able to bully guys like he did in the French league unless he puts on quite a bit of weights. So one last thing is the passing. Not the greatest passer. Does not have great awareness of when he needs to pass. If a double team gets thrown at him, he is not the quickest to identify what he should do. That'll be a bigger issue for him in the NBA with much longer defenders, much faster defenders. And realistically, one of the only ways you're going to be able to start.

slow this guy down is by throwing double teams at him, you know, when he's posted up down low, when he faces up down low. It's going to happen a lot. So that passing, it'd be kind of a big deal if that didn't come along. Yeah, I think if you're trying to make him a primary option, that that's something you want, or at least even a high usage secondary option guy. That's something you want. But he's going to score a ton of points no matter what, really. It's just, is it going to be where he is dictating the offense, where he is really being the straw that stirs the drink of an offensive system? That isn't necessarily in the cards yet,

although he's definitely a guy you build into wherever and he will be successful. But he's not to the point where you can just let him feast off of double teams and really make teams pay by closing out on him super hard or trying to bring the extra man. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, yeah, these are really, these qualities are the differences. I mean, as long as the shooting,

even if the shooting doesn't come along. Yeah. I mean, you're looking at a guy who's, you know, probable, like, very good second option. And as we're about to talk about, fantastic defender. I mean, I don't think that his floor is any less than, like, all-defensive guy on a perennial basis. And again, I mean, it comes back.

down to the same, you know, the same thing, you know, crazy combination of height, length, agility, and instincts. I mean, he's got the size and the wingspan and he imposes his will upon the opposition. And he just uses that, you know, uses that height, uses that link expertly, expertly to cause major problems for anybody he plays against. He actually enjoys playing defense too. Like, it's pretty obvious watching him that he really loves that end of, of the court and that's kind of all you need right with his combination of attributes to be at least good um but i think there's as he said real potential for him to just be an absolute force all perennial all NBA second first team kind of guy maybe even a deep boy or two i don't i i can't put a cap on

this kid like there there isn't a cap if you will it's just the floor is just, especially in defense, so obscenely high that he's going to be a long, long-term star starting player. Yeah. Occasionally somebody comes along who can really just, is a game-changing interior defender. And it's not that he's only good on the interior, but, and I'm not making this comparison, both because they are from the country of France. I'm just, like, if you're thinking in terms of guys who just fundamentally alter offenses,

you know, as defenders, he like at Gobert, who, you know, he's caught a lot of flack lately, and he definitely wasn't worth like five first-round picks that was still a horrible trade. He's on a bad contract because, basically with Gobert, I mean, he is a game-changing, like absolutely game-changing interior defender, one of the greatest interior defenders of all time as a drop defender. He, you know, alter shots, block shots, stop shots from even being attempted. You can find, you know, a lot of, I mean, there are clips. One of my favorites was when he was playing against the spurs a couple years ago.

And there were like three different opportunities in the same possession in which players just drove at him and then just gave up, turn around, and they're like, this is not happening in past the ball. So, you know, Victor's that kind of guy. And I think he could, just like Janus, maybe even better, be one of the greatest roving interior help defenders of all time. Yeah, there isn't ultimately a ceiling on him in terms of his ability to be a helped side defender. It's he can move around so fluidly on defense. He can adjust to different looks, teams throw at the, at him or at his team. He can kind of figure out where to, where to gamble, where the pass is coming. And with his length, it's pretty easy for him to jump the lane and, you know, get that

transition game going. And while he's not quite the athletic open court specimen, like a Janus type is, he's still going to be able to really affect offenses and get transition going just due to the length due to forcing bad shots, bad looks, bad passes. Blocks. Blocks.

Oh, of course. I mean, he's going to have tons of highlight real blocks in his career. And this is, again, if none of the offensive critiques we have come together, This is the floor we're getting. We're getting a fantastic defensive prospect on top of the offensive game that he already has. It's just, I don't really know. It's kind of wild to even be talking about a guy with this. I feel like I'm talking about Rudy Gobert, but as like a 19-year-old.

Yeah, and much more mobile. I mean, where Gober goes bad in the playoffs is where a team. teams will just deliberately exploit him by bringing him out to the perimeter, whether that's with a stretch center or by just playing a much smaller player against him. Yep. Like they played Batum at center, I believe that was back in 2021. And when you drag Rudy out to the perimeter, he loses a lot of his utility because he goes from being like an unbelievably good.

And again, I think Gobert gets underappreciated in this respect. I mean, he is a brilliant interior defender, like one of the greatest ever. But when you bring him out to the perimeter, he's like an average switch defense. So he goes from absolutely game changing to just kind of pedestrian. And also he's not in the interior to affect shots. Victor, yeah, Victor is less of, less of like the drop defender that Rudy is. Yeah. He's more of kind of a roaming guy.

Of course, he's useful in all situations. He doesn't have that weakness that Rudy does of just losing a lot. You know, similar to Janus. Yonis is just an interior guy, like an interior help defender who doesn't really, he doesn't lose anything at all if he forces him to switch. nobody even bothers to try. So I think he'll be more similar to honest in that respect, just in a roaming interior health defender who, again, yeah,

his instincts are great. His ability to reposition is great. It's just that massive stride length in his lateral mobility. And his knowledge of where to be and how to use that length is going to make him like a nightmare for players are always going to have to be thinking about where he is. Yep. Kind of like that free safety, edry type. He's like an NFL comparison where it's just, he's always,

always a threat even when he's not near the actual play. And in fact, that's when he's most of the time going to be the biggest threat because he's going to come around and he's going to force the issue. Yeah. I mean, it just can't, again, I feel like we're not properly doing him justice here. And I mean, his ability to come out of nowhere just to stop a player from even trying to attempt a shot or to alter a shot or to swat a shot is really something else. I mean, just insane helpside defense, you know, defensive potential in general and at the rim.

Yeah. And just crazy good shot, like her head on and help side, even on jump shots. Like he's just great at parlaying that length into contesting shots. I mean, this guy's just going to block a lot of jumpers, including a lot of threes. Absolutely. He's going to send some threes into the crowd for sure. Yeah. And, you know, in terms of overall rim protection, like even head on, just as primary rim protector, I think he'll do well.

I mean, it's a different story when he's going to be forced to bang down. low if he doesn't put on some weight. But no switchability concerns. No. Even if you get past him as a fast guard, he's going to recover, that stride length is going to take him close to the basket and he's going to swat you from behind. Like again, go look, go watch Scoot play against this guy in that G-League and that ignite game and that preseason game.

And of course, Scoot's going to improve. But you'll get an idea of how well Victor can recover. Right. Because Scoot, Scoot himself, as we covered last week, also quite the athletic specimen. spectacular athlete yeah just with a very different body type um and it's it's just kind of unfair to expect scoot to have um a ton of success going up a guy who has literally over a foot without shoes in the height on him it's just i mean you with that length and athleticism combo I mean, he's going to be able to switch just fine.

The ladder mobility is good to even great at his size. And just there isn't really a lot of holes. And this is the area I feel the most confident on him as an elite defensive prospect. Yeah, he's also what I would call it. I mean, whatever, you can say I coined this term. Whatever. I'm trying to make fun of myself here because I don't actually feel good about myself for going in this term, but really a very, very low variance defender.

Whereas, you know, it doesn't matter the scheme or what the offense is doing. He's not, like, his value is going to fluctuate very little. He's going to be extremely valuable in all situations. So. Except guarding like Yokic and Embed down. Yeah. Yeah. But no one can do that. No one can do that. And I think we'll talk, you know, when we talk about his fit, we'll talk about his ideal position. I'm not convinced at this point that he's going to necessarily be playing a ton of center. So he might not find himself in that position.

you know, all too often. And yeah, it's just like he's really something else. And of course, the defensive rebounding is there. Yeah. That is useful. I know we've been kind of traumatized by Drummond, you know, thinking, oh, you know, yeah, defensive rebounding. His numbers were inflated and he wasn't actually a good defender,

except when he tried, which was rare. But, oh, yeah, pick and roll. Like, imagine this guy's shutting down, you know, just defending against the pick and roll. Like, there is going to be really no good way to run a pick and roll against Victor when Manyama, because. you know like if he stays on the center good luck getting the center of the ball and if he's forced to switch on to the guard good luck finding a good shot at the rim exactly like this is the prototypical pick and roll defender um sort of mold that we've seen really have a tremendous impact in uh all areas of of the defense because the pick and roll is one of your primary actions that playoff teams run to get mismatches out of set offenses.

And if you can be an effective pick and roll defender, then in the NBA, then you are going to alter big important games, big important possessions on a routine basis for years and years and years to come. And that's sort of what we're looking at, is a guy who you can't, he is going to play a ton of minutes

in the most important of minutes, pretty much as soon as he stuffs on the court. You actually want him to be a playmaker even on defense. That is why he is at this absolute like Olympic or Mount Rushmore tier prospect where it's like 19 year olds just or anybody ever just doesn't look this way, doesn't have this type of floor, let alone this type of ceiling. Yeah. And one thing, final thing I think we should touch on is the isolation defense. Like you can't ISO this guy and take a jump shot because he's just going to block it.

You try to ISO him. You might get past him. And again, he's just going to swat you when you're about to get to the rim because he's going to recover. And you know, you have to be real, real shifty. I'd say more like lucky. You're going to have to guess right to keep from, you know, this huge guy with a gigantic wingspan who's not far behind you and is great at blocking shots from just swat. wadding it before it gets to the backboard. ISO is no threat to him either. So yeah, amazing potential there. You know, we all know how the Detroit fans love defense. I mean, you definitely get it in spades from Victor. Absolutely.

I think we've talked about his primary count on defense. Just he could get bullied on defense by some guys who are, you mentioned a couple of them, Yolkitch and Mb, but there are others as well. I mean, there are some beefy dudes in the NBA. Of course, the era of the huge slow guy is long since over. but there are some strong dudes who, you know, who will go to work on him. David Davis and others. And, you know, that's a weakness.

I mean, he's going to be great just by keeping his arm up. Yeah, again, just the ability or sorry, the fact that he has the longest reach in the NBA is going to make it so that way he can recover against the bigger boys. But it is going to be, he's not going to excel quite so much if he's going to be a primary drop guy against centers. And to be honest, I don't think teams are really going to even scheme for him to be there. They're going to want him to be that roving helpside guy who can occasionally switch out to the perimeter and occasionally switch down low and just be a problem all over the court.

Yeah. I mean, this takes us to our next question. We move on to fit here. And I don't think I necessarily have any concerns and even the slightest bit about his ability to slot him with the pistons. I don't think any team has any concerns about their ability to slot him. So let's talk what would his ideal position with the pistons be?

And I think this is a guy we basically just talked about it who's going to be most ideal power forward. I mean, you can still run him as a pick and roll guy on offense. I mean, it's going to hurt spacing a little bit, but I don't think anybody, that doesn't really matter when you have a player like like Victor, if you have a traditional center next to him if he's playing next to, say, Jalen Duren.

But, yeah, it's going to be more on defense that you want him as that roaming guy. But against lineups, where the opposition is going small, or just in general, is not throwing one of those bigger guys at you, then maybe in that situation, you know, you give them some minutes at center as well. The fit with the Pistons is, for me, phenomenal.

I'm sure fans of the other 29 teams in the NBA would agree as well. Yeah, right. Yeah, that'd be a great fit with the Pistons. Yeah, absolutely. No doubt. He fits everywhere. He completely transforms what other franchise gets his talents. And we have Jalen Dern, I think, could be a really good combo for him because that's, Jalen Dern's bread and butter is getting down low and, you know, hopefully banging with some big boys down there. It's just he's got a, he's got some work to do as a drop defender yet. But the outline of that,

makes sense at least. And then, of course, you have Caden Ivy. We still need to, of course, see the progression in Caden Ivy into those true on-ball guard creator types that really conduct an offense at a high level in the playoffs, of course. But you think about that. With Victor, oh, boy, that could be really, really fun in terms of the amount of mismanagement. that are able to be generated for the three of them kind of working in tandem off each other, especially if Cade and Ivy continue to improve as shooters. If Victor improves as a shooter, then you're looking at a well-rounded offense that can pretty much do as it wills with whatever the defense throws at them.

Yeah. I mean, part of me is like it's almost point with talking about fit. I mean, number one we know we know he fits. Number two, I mean, there's not a single team that's not going to be. I think I'm number one. Again, I wonder what odds Vegas is even throwing on this. I mean, we had this dude who, this is back in, I think the first season of the Durant era Warriors put up like $50,000 that the Warriors are going to make the playoffs and won like 500. You know, it's like it's kind of, you know, why'd you even bother? Right. You know, of course, Vegas's odds on this are everybody

gets injured, you know, which is like a one and a hundred chance. So you win $500 off your 50K. Yeah, I wonder what kind of odds they would even put on this of a team of him, not being drafted, number one, I don't think that I'd be surprised if they're even taking bets, some meaningful bets that don't have you put in a significantly larger amount of money than that and get less out of it. Exactly. Yeah. So if it's going to be good, no matter where he goes, if he goes to the pistons, fit's going to be good.

Yeah. So let's talk comp. This one's hard. We just spent a while talking about how there's not been another player who's coming to the league who can do this sort of thing. Like you think about like a combination of Porzengis and Gobert with better mobility, like Janus, who can shoot. And these aren't perfect comparison.

And Janus has some strengths that Victor Wimban Yama does not. The opposite is certainly true too. I don't know. I mean, it's really hard to make that comparison. I don't think it's necessary either. I don't think it. Well, that's the idea is a unicorn. Yeah, he's he's the unicorn.

He's a my player character given, given flesh. It's just not not. There isn't a real good comparable. We just talk about tiers of prospects. and he's in, at least in my mind, he's above the Anthony Davis tier, he's in the LeBron tier of prospect where it's kind of about how great he is going to do in the NBA rather than his actual development. It's just, does his development lead to a really good player or does it lead to an all-time

grade or somewhere in between? Yeah, and I think this is a good place for, us to transition to floor. And that's a good place, a really good place for us to talk about injuries. Injuries are, you know, concern I definitely have about Victor. I'm sure plenty of teams have concerns about injuries with Victor. I also have been equally sure that none of those concerns would ever cause any of them to draft him at lower than number one. So this combination of excellent size with great mobility is extremely difficult in the lower body. And Wester Yonis, who just has the absolute, just ridiculously perfect biomechanics that prevent him from having that issue.

Like, Janus is in, I mean, we want to talk about unicorns, whatever. I mean, Janus has that combination of great size, great length, great mobility, and he doesn't get any injuries as a result just because of how it's, again, just the biomechanics. I could talk about Janus's biomechanics for some time. Basically, nobody else is Janus in this capacity. So, you know, we've had some examples of this, certainly. Porzingis is one of those, you know, Porzingis who had great mobility. And, you know, with Dallas, for example, and even at this time in New York City,

excuse me in New York City, but the Knicks was in New York City. Had, I mean, he was able to play center. It did a great job of it. And then he had that injury in the 2020 playoffs in the bubble. And he lost some mobility. And if he was like 10, 20% of mobility in the NBA. I mean, the margins are so small. Yeah.

That really hurt his game because he can no longer defend effectively at center. Yeah. But if you're thinking, like, Victor could miss a lot of games. He could have a relatively short career. he could just, you know, gradually lose the mobility that is really necessary, even for him. So again, that's a concern. And I think it's likely to happen. I mean, players are going to get hurt kind of regardless.

It's just how good are they going to be at recovering from it. I mean, that that's part of what makes the greats the greats, that they play a lot. They played a ton. LeBron is LeBron because he basically played through every injury ever. And, you know, that's another marvel of LeBron. And, you know, same thing with Kobe up until the Achilles injury, just played an absolute ton in order to really kind of demonstrate their greatness. And, you know, we have examples of players all through basketball history who, for one

reason or another, got hurt and we never really saw them get back to that point. Prasenghis being one of them, where Prisengis had a real chance to be this type of unicorn, it's just that he had bad injury luck. I wouldn't call it luck. I could call it the result of being that tall, that long, and that mobile.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Porzengis was a really good, I mean, Porzengis didn't have the ceiling of a woman, Yama, he didn't have quite that skill set. But, I mean, Porzangas was a great player when he was able to stay healthy. And you get injured so many times you'll lose a step. I mean, it happens to almost everybody.

You get injured enough times. just lose a step. So yeah, it's, it's always going to be a concern with Victor. I mean, that body type is very difficult on the feet, the angles, and the knees. Upper body really isn't so much for a big deal, you know, for obvious reasons, but it's very hard in the lower body. Again, we're talking about this entirely theoretical. You know, I think that, I mean, we've got a long history of players like this having these issues. They make perfect sense. At the same time, I mean, not going to stop anybody from drafting them first overall. No. Yeah. No. No. It, it, it,

It's in the sort of opposite direction, the concerns with Zion were also very prevalent. Didn't stop anybody from taking Zion. No, it did not. I mean, in Zion, poor Pelicans. Yeah. Yeah. This is, I don't know if this is something I've talked about before in this podcast, but it's like, it's a sort of similar situation where it was just more, Zion's an extreme case

because it's his combination of bulk, strength, explosiveness, and agility, plus his, you know, plus his touch, of course, and just his skill. But that is the physical combination that makes him what he is. It's also the physical combination that is extremely difficult in his body. And I feel like even if Zion had done everything right in terms of staying in tippy top shape and at the lowest weight he could reasonably be at, have been at, he would have really started to run out by age 30. And he has done far from the best job he could have.

and who knows what's going to happen as a result. Correct. Yeah. I mean, again, it's not an A to B one-to-one relationship, but the sort of similarities ring true here where how is he going to be able to cope with the stresses that are going to be placed upon him. Yeah, for sure.

I mean, and it's an 82-game NBA season against Tibet, you know, some of the best athletes on the planet. And if he can't put on that bulk also, you know, that's going to lessen his durability also. Correct. Just a greater shock to the body. I mean, that's a concern with Chet too.

I mean, Chet's a major injury concerns about Chet, like it's significantly greater. I mean, well, it's already happened. Yeah. Significantly greater than I had with,

you know, than I have with Victor. And my concerns with Victor are pretty significant. I place Victor lower on the injury risk scale than Chet and poor Zingas, just because of how he moves, but still pretty high. So, you know,

that's so, I mean, I would say with floor, I mean, that's something that would affect. his long-term floor. Of course, I'd say his floor in general is, you know, on the court floor is his fantastic defender.

Yeah. And still like very high caliber score, even if he can't shoot. So like All-Star floor is how I would put it, unless he's like constantly unhealthy. Right. So, and sailing, I'd say, would be one of the greatest of all time. Yep. You know, if, you know, if he reaches that potential,

he's going to be a largely unstoppable score and a fantastic defender. I mean, this is an entirely game-changing player. Would he have the durability to, like, reach all-time great status? I mean, that's a different story because longevity plays a big role in that as well. But yeah, the ceiling's there. The ceiling for him to become that sort of kind of franchise, figurehead. This is who we write stories about years and decades later, getting the chance to, oh, I remember when I watched him play, that's sort of the type of talent that we have on our hands.

And so it's going to be really special no matter where he ends up. I just hope it's with the pistons. Yeah, it could be incredibly annoying if you're a fan of the opposite team, because if he gets everything together, he's going to be almost entirely unstoppable. And players who are almost entirely unstoppable are really annoying to watch a team play against. Yep. Yeah. And on to draft board, I mean, goodness, this is a really great question that nobody knows the answer.

You know, that's not like everybody who's listening to this knows the answer to it. So number one, everybody would be shocked if Victor doesn't go number one on draft night. I mean, it's just going to happen. It's the same thing. as it was with Zion, same thing as it was with LeBron, same thing as it was with a lot of players. Anthony Davis, there's just some guys you know are going to go number one and there's nothing that's going to change that. Now, does that mean Weaver is going to say any different, be like, we're going to vet it out. That type of thing he usually says, I fully expect that.

But if we get number one, we being the Pistons, of course, he's going number one. Well, nobody's really even going to take it seriously. It's like you're not trading this pick. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. A team that is in, there's like one piece away from the championship and then happened to win the lottery would not trade this pick for anything, I would imagine. No. Yeah.

All right. So I think we're reaching close to the end here. Any closing thoughts? I am excited and terrified about what is going to happen in a week from now. Yeah, it'll be interesting. The 2021 lottery was the most nervous I have maybe ever felt in my adult life. I did with a lot of anger. I don't deal with like actual like acute distressing anxiety of that sort.

Like I was like man like an unadrenal overload shaking the piston's got the number one overall pick. Yeah. And it wasn't quite so bad last year. And I don't know how it's probably be somewhere in between this year. What are the vibes? Are the vibes do you feel the one again? I would like to say it because last time, yeah, of course like, you know, definitely me saying

they were going to get number one, you know, had everything to do with it. No, of course not. You know, and I said, I thought the pistons were going to get number two last year. The universe doesn't give a shit, what I think. So, I'm thinking the pistons will end up number two and number three. And it's kind of like one of those funny instances. Well, I would say, you know, yeah, number three frees you of fear of missing out if you decide to pass on scoot. But I'm thinking, I don't know, if I had to, whatever, I'll just say that I think the

pistons are going to get number one. And then I can feel really good if they get it. And, you know, and I've contributed one iota. actually zero iotas if we're being realistic toward this being the actual outcome. I've contributed absolutely nothing toward it, but I'm going to say it anyway. Yeah, I'm right there with you. Last week, a couple weeks ago, I felt, okay, it's going to be number two. We're going to have this annoying conversation about scoot.

Will they or won't they for another month? Today, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling cocky and confident about Wendy. So I'm calling it. Punching it in. Victor Wimbunyama. Detroit Piston. Sweet. All right. So that'll be it for this episode. Thank you, Gun Price, for guesting. No, no problem. Yeah, always pleasure to have you on here. So one week to the lottery,

folks. Next episode will be on lottery night. Catch you then.