Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 146: Draft Lottery Reaction

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

This episode reacts to the draft lottery, which saw the Pistons fall to #5. 

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Drab in the Basket. I am Mike, your host, back with Price. Once again, we are recording this a few hours after the outcome of the not-so-great 2020-MBA draft watery, saw the pistons fall from number one to number five. It was about a 48% chance of this happening. That doesn't really make it any easier at all, to say the least. So we're here just to talk about, what comes next? And one thing I just want to start this out by saying is that, yes, tonight's outcome is very disappointing. And I might sound a little bit different because I just, and just a full disclosure, had a few drinks tonight, nothing special. I'll be enough. You know, there's some real things have happened this year.

But for whatever reason, the draft lottery was like, you know, I could use a drink. I'm not a drinker. I've had about three drinks in the last three and a half hours. It would be nothing for most people. I don't know why I even mention that, but it's, you know, feeling a little bit tipsy. Whatever, any case. So the Pistons and, sorry, I know, you know, Price, you just listen to me talk here.

So I'll be done in a moment. But, I mean, my thoughts are, my thoughts going into today just to focus a little bit more. You know, my BAC right now is probably at roughly zero. So I don't even know why I mentioned the part about being slightly tipsy. But my thoughts about, you know, going into the draft lottery tonight with the possibility of the Pistons we're going to get number five was that no matter which team you are, you're almost certainly going to have to hit on a draft pick that is going to be outside of the top three. You can need to, I mean, you think back to like the Donovan Mitchell's sort of player who comes later in the lottery. It's very, very rare that you have a team. I can't think of a recent champion who just had like a bunch of really high picks and they built a championship contender that.

It would have been nice, needless to say, to get Victor Womaniyama, but it didn't happen. And the pistons are going to have to make do, and you're going to need to either hit on a pick or make a good trade, whatever else. Mostly you're just going to need a hit on a pick that is outside of the top three. And that's where the pistons are right now. All right, all that said, price probably a question to which I already know the answer. What's your feeling right now? Oh, I should notice. I should know, by the way, first things.

We had a cool draft to watery watch party on Discord. If you want to join Pistons, Discord, Discord.GG slash Pistons. And if any of you are listening to this, who showed up for that, I want to thank you. It was a good time. It was not the result that we expected, but I think we had a good discussion. It was an enjoyable time. So, all right, moving on. I mean, during the actual draft process, I was, you know, fist bumping as, you know,

less and less names were being called off. know, no one was moving up. Then pick five comes around right before the commercial break, and it's the red, white, and blue. And I think that entire commercial break, I just was letting out a death rattle type sound. Their words were beyond me, because it's less the fact that we didn't get Wembe Yamah,

and it's more of the fact that we also fell down to five. So it's like that double blow that was going on. It's like, wow, really just the absolute word. case for our draft pick position happened and you know it's at least he's in the west um at least the spurs aren't aren't going to be anything too dangerous for a little while but man would be nice would have been nice and yeah i guess the next component is that i i think that where we're headed as a franchise is likely out of sort of this trough that we've experienced in the post Blake Griffin era, if you will.

The Blake Griffin era. Stan Van Gundy era. That was a trough of a whole different kind, if you will. So what's going on now is that this is sort of that last. real chance to get quality young talent in the organization without having to trade for it. And pick five is all things considered a very good pick. However, it's also... Pick five.

Four picks before us. Yeah. It's not ideal. It's just not ideal. It's just so tough. I have no real words other than... Then as a Pistons fan today, today sucks. Yep.

But it'll be fine. We will carry on. You hope so. Yeah, exactly. We already got lucky once. So I guess we really couldn't have asked for too much more, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the Pistons, if you aggregate the last three lotteries,

had a 42% chance of kidding number one. So technically, they've come out ahead. No, that doesn't take into account. I mean, you have a higher likelihood, a good likelihood of getting number two or number three as well. So the business are behind in terms of odds. It does change things a little bit, that you're not getting a chance that's, you know, the three guys who really appeared to be the high level talent in this draft. But like I said, if you're a team that wants to win a championship, you got to win either

a draft pick that is not in the top three or you have to win a trade, one of the two. And so this might force the pistons on the ladder path. Who knows? I mean, I wouldn't count them out. You know, it's possible that you draft somebody who's not one of those top prospects and it turns out super well. I mean, it might sound like we're just talking cope, but... We are.

In a way. I mean, obviously, it's not the outcome that we wanted, but it doesn't necessarily mean, doom. I think we can agree on that. So, you know, we'll talk a little bit tonight. We're recording this about goodness, what was it, about four or five hours after the lottery. And, yeah, I had an engagement I had to go off to for the last three and a half hours or so, but I was fully pointing on skipping if the Pistons won the lottery. But that didn't happen.

So, yeah, it was just a dinner. So this does change things for the Pistons. For example, you know, you grab number one, you get Victor. It changes your team in a fundamental way, of course. Even if you get number two pistons, I think ultimately probably would have gone with Brandon Miller, but probably would have traded down. But it does change things in terms of which you need to look for in free agency in the future, which you need to look for in terms of possible trades in the future.

Basically, how things will change unless the draft pick you choose ends up being more than you would expect. So why don't we start? with whom we might see is the piston. So here's, why don't we start with this? What we see is the likeliest pick order for the top four. Yeah. Of course, goes to the spurs, the hornets, yeah, the blazers and the rockets. And I'm happy the rockets were number four.

And if there were a team that Fictor had to go to, would it have been anybody but the Spurs for you? You know, it really felt like fate pops last year, one of his last years. They haven't really been that bad. up until this year. They seem to do tanking. They seem to do tanking perfectly, you know.

But they bottom out one year. They get Luam Mianyama, bottom out back in the 90s, get Tim Duncan. Seems decent. There's a decent symmetry to it, of course. Yeah. I would have to say if there were a single team, I would have wanted it to be the Spurs for three reasons.

You mentioned, number one, they're in the West. That's nice. Number two, Greg Popov, which gets a great project to work with in his but probably, I would imagine, be his final few years and arguably, I would say, the greatest NBA coach of all time. Number three, they are the furthest away of any of the, you know, the teams in the top eight from actually competing for anything, like anything at all. So, you know, if you had to go, and number four, I would say, you know,

unnamed number four, they aren't a team that I dislike, like the Rockets, for example. I don't really dislike the Rockets, but I don't dislike the Spurs at all. And they're a class organization, an absolute class organization. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, as far as bad case or worst case outcomes, this is one of the better ones. Yeah. I'd say the best, probably. Well, also because Houston got drugged down with us, they fell pretty hard too.

And they had moved down over this last few years of being in the lottery. So if we were due to, we already dropped, obviously. but they really needed to drop. And I'm glad, you know, although they're above us and we'll get to it, I'm glad that they're also feeling the burn. Shot and fraud, huh? Yeah, yep. Yeah.

So, yeah, in terms of who jumped into the top three, you know, who ended up with the top three picks, I don't feel too bad about that. I mean, sure, you can call that minus shot and fraud as well. But they're not from teams I dislike, and they're not from teams that I would feel, threatening to the, you know, that feel particularly threatening to the pistons. The Hornets are an incompetent, excuse me, they're in the East, but they're an incompetent

we run organization. And, you know, even with the number two pick, I don't feel like, who knows, maybe this statement could come back to bite me, but I don't feel like they're a tremendous threat. And then number three, of course, was the Trailblazers and things could get quite interesting with them, depending on who was picked number two. But let's get to that. So picks one through four. You know, every, I feel like this is the fourth episode we've done, I believe, or fifth.

And for the last three episodes, I've asked you to start the episodes, completely and utterly pointless questions. Like, who's going first? Who's going to go first in this draft? What do you think, Bryce? He plays for the Metropolitan's 92 or 90 seconds or whatever weird name. It is up there. And his name is Bilal.

No, sorry. His name is John Sina. Yeah, his name's John Sina. His name's Bilal Kulabali, who's his teammate, who's also going to be drafted this year. Yeah. Yeah, you know that prank, the John Sina prank? Oh, yes, yes. Oh, yes.

And his name is John Sina. It's actually John Sina. Yeah, John Sina would not do well in the NBA. No. You know, I can't switch. He's not to honor. Anyway, yeah. So obviously it's Victor number one, potentially.

franchise changing prospect if you can stay healthy. That's really the only concern. Number two is where things get interesting. Yep. So that's the Hornets. You've already got one little ball there. You do. My opinion is that they will take scoot.

I think they would be fools to pass on scoot. I think it could be a really fun offense. Also probably a terrible defense, which seems pretty up in the end. Yeah. Yeah. that's it that's one thing that immediately clicked when I saw that pick even in through the pain I was like wait that defense is going to probably be really bad but wait but plumley uh plumy's gone never mind darned yeah it'll be interesting I don't think it's a bad fit necessarily with lamella on scoot I don't think it's a horrible fit no it's it's just every team is going to have liabilities that they need to address and whether or not they address them ultimately determines how far they go.

That sounds reductive and it kind of is. But the idea is that you'll have two dynamic creators, one bigger, one smaller, kind of like what we have here in Detroit, but maybe with a little more of excitement per se than what we have in Detroit with Caden Ivy. And I think we just have more or less excitement? More excitement.

They might be just the more lashy pair. They might be just because Scoot's a little more athletic, a little stronger, a little better at kind of controlling pace already than Ivy is. And Lamello, of course, is just highlight real pass after highlight real pass. Whereas K can do that, but it's more subtle, at least not as ostentatious. But, you know, you just build. build with nice two-guard rotation and see where it goes. Yeah, I agree.

And, I mean, one of the things that I noticed this year is that Lamello doesn't really love to drive into the paint. You know, I mean, this is his third season, and his percentage of shots in the restricted area has persistently dropped. He has just preferred more and more to just take pull-up threes. I mean, you look at, like, his three-frees. point attempt rate is risen from 39% to 45% to 53% in his last season. And his percentage of attempts around the basket have dropped commensurately. I don't think like super highly of Lamello in terms of, I've thought less and less of him as a lead guard and as a hard worker. He's still an incredibly skilled playmaker. He's still, you know, he's still got a great handle.

But just his trajectory has changed in such a way that I don't feel necessarily, I don't feel like it would be a bad thing to play him next to Scoot and kind of relegate well, Mello to more of a guy who can just come off screens and shoot and be a secondary playmaker from the perimeter on in, have an easier time. I don't, I just, I don't think super high level Melo. I think he'll be a good player, but I wouldn't feel horrible about him playing secondary playmaker. And I think they'd be fullest pass on him. I agree. And scoot, I agree. Yeah, obviously, I, we don't know where the front office of these organizations are at where they're they're leaning but i think that scoot would be um just a nice cornerstone to add next to lamello and you got mark williams already there and

start filling out with wing talent um as it comes and see see what what you kind of do this mini rebuild that they've been on and um i think i think it'd be a fun team. So yeah, I like that idea. Pretty happy scoots there of all places. Could be quite fun. Those are fun players that get to play together. Yeah, I mean, they've got a long way to go in terms of filling out the rest of the roster. Oh, yeah. Of course. And that seems book night flop. Really looms large. Yeah, that hurts. I mean, I'm sure. I'm hope they're still, I mean, I'm sure they're still hoping that it will get that he will get it together. anybody's guess is to if they will, Mark Williams, I still feel like is more of a regular season

player. The Hornets are just a team that has dealt with endless futility. I'm not necessarily confident that adding scoot, I think the best move for them would be getting rid of Michael Jordan. And that's a possibility. But who knows? I mean, you sign Gordon Hayward. He can horribly stay healthy. PJ Washington is, yeah, PJ Washington is, you know, fourth, fifth option kind of guy. Whatever. I mean, so that's another plus of the hornets getting number two is that they're unlikely to be very good anytime soon. So number three, this is an obvious answer, but who do you think Portland takes? I think Brandon Miller goes third, but I don't know if Portland keeps the pick. Interesting. If do you think they can trade it for somebody? That's a great point. I hadn't thought

of that they could trade it for a win now kind of guy. Right. Because they're, the kind of exception of all of the teams at the bottom this year or this season, they actually have a star, like a real star at the end of his prime, which is a very win now type of player. And Brandon Miller, as great as we think he could be, is not going to be ready for big playoff minutes right away. I think he could be a useful player in those situations. but I don't think he will be maximized and he won't help maximize Damien Lillard. So in that case, if they are keeping Dame, I could see this being a massive bargaining chip to foster some sort of larger trade where Brandon Miller goes third, but he puts on the hat

of the Blazers and never again. Do you have any thoughts as to whom they might trade Brandon Miller for, trade the pick for? I have no idea. Fair enough. Yeah, I was, I mean, I'd really even have to just look at the standings here to think about to see if I can, come on, NBA.com. Don't give me a, there we go. I'll go over to ESPN, you're just going to give me a bracket. So, yeah, if we look at it, I mean, it would have to be a team that's kind of on the periphery that's maybe looking to get under win now contention.

Yeah, that'd be something to think about. I wonder who that would be. I wonder if, for example, they would trade that pick for Pascal Seacum. I think it would be a terrible idea because Seacum is probably past 30 at this point and is looking at a max contract. Yeah. So, yeah, I wouldn't put that outside the realm of possibility. I'm not sure. I think number three may be a little bit too rich for just Seacum alone, given where Toronto finds stuff.

Yeah. Toronto isn't, Toronto has a high pick this year. Yeah. Well, where is Toronto? Where are they picking this year? I can't remember. They're not too high. No, because I... It's a lot of, but... No, yeah, they were a play-end team. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, if you're talking Siakum, for example, and Toronto's pick, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. To Siakum is... Wait, does Siakum on Unrestrict Free Agent?

I don't think so. I think he's got one more season left on his deal, if I remember correctly. Yes. So Siakum is under contract this season at $38 million. So I'm not sure about Portland's caps-based situation. It'd be kind of a lateral move if they needed to use their, you know, if they just lost Jeremy Grant the process. Yeah. So in any case, yeah, we're getting pretty deep into it. So yeah, they could trade it, but I agree that Brandon Miller be the pick. And in Harrisburg gets interesting. Sorry for the sound. I got to silence my phone here. Here's where it's interesting in Houston. And I think we agree on this one. I think Houston, and again, And all of this is subject to these teams keeping the picks.

I think that Amen Thompson would be the likeliest pick for Houston. I don't see them picking a non-ball handler. Yeah. And so it's weird where a lot of the Houston fans that I've seen online in the last few hours are very anti-either Thompson twin. I've even heard that some of the beatwriters don't see Amen as a likelihood. but when you do the math of KPJ, Kevin Porter Jr., is not it very definitively, and they have no handler to pair with Jalen Green or Jabari Smith or Tari Isson or

Shangoon. Yeah, there's a clear need. So just get a guy who can actually initiate offense, be that plus passer who conducts the choir conducts the orchestra, if you will. Hyper athlete, potentially really good defender, good size, obviously with the measurements that came in. I think Amon Thompson makes a lot of sense. And maybe they just need to warm up into it a little, just like, yeah, it's going to be okay. Because you have Jalen Green and Jabari Smith, and I think both those guys can at least stretch the floor. you're not as worried about Thompson's lack of shooting in that context because, well,

you have two, you'll have a really, really athletic back court and Tari Isan and Jabari Smith are exciting big wingish prospects. So I'm actually pretty bullish on that fit for them if they elect to go for it. So that's who I would mock at least. Yeah. I would just be surprised to see them go with a non-ball handler, put it that way. Yeah. You know, Kevin Porter Jr., I think we can agree, is not it.

I mean, he's one of these demonstrations. Like, it was a big deal when Blake Riven scored 50 of the best since back in 2018. Things are very different in the NBA now. Kevin Porter Jr., I believe, scored 52 something, 50-something, a couple seasons ago. Sadly, it might be in sadly. I mean, it's just not really that big of a deal anymore. That's just how offenses. Players are more skilled on offense.

Players are progressively just coming in with stronger and stronger offensive skill sets and defense is that much harder to play. When Blake scored that, that was right at the beginning of the Freedom of Motion era. You know, those rules in 2018, whatever the case. KPG, KPJ, I hate to put it this way, is unstable, unreliable, and not a good playmaker and not a very good defender, which is kind of an issue next to Jalen Green as well. M.N. Thompson is an upside swing.

He is excellent upside if he can make it. that's big if the rockets are more of a slower and rebuilding team than the pistons right now it's been a little bit messy the things went wrong with the last coach there are issues with the locker room they're not i mean that that's that's something the pistons haven't had to deal with i think they take the upside swing i can't see them swinging on anybody else like cambric more doesn't really move the needle quite as much for the rockets i mean yeah they're betting on easin they're betting on jubari smith they're betting on on shangoon i have doubts about his ability to play defense in the playoffs. Sure. My guess is, yeah, my guess is that they will go for a lead handler, and that would be Amen Thompson. There's really no other option. You don't always draft for fit, but I think he has the highest possible upside also at number

four. Yeah, I think it's a nice intersection between fit and upside, so hence, best player available. Yeah. So we're somehow 25 minutes into this episode already. Time is really flying here. So we come to. to the team that is number five in the lottery. Also, the team that is the subject of this podcast. It's an NBA team that plays in Detroit. They go by the Pistons. Used to go by the Fort Wayne.

Fort Wayne's all in their Pistons. Now they're going Detroit. I'm just joking around. Obviously, okay, so we get to the Pistons. And, you know, here's obviously, you know, we're here to talk about. I would say this is where things get interesting. So as I see it, yeah, but yeah, I know. This is very insightful. I'm saying, obviously. You know, it's just a really, really deep stuff. Yeah, not exactly. So I feel like there are a bunch of factors here. Like, how does the front office feel about the current back court, for example,

or the current core, which I believe amounts to Duren, Cade, and Ivy? Do you go for an upside pick at this point? Do you go for just a strong three and D pick and just say, okay, we'll make a trade later, or maybe we try to sign Jeremy Grant in the off season, which is, you know, which is unknown. know if that's a possibility. Team needs defense. Team needs size. And do you care about that right now?

Are you, you know, we know that winning is going to be the priority next season. How much is winning the priority versus development? As Tom Gore has become involved again and said, I want this team to start building a winning culture, which I think is, of course, I think this is nonsense. It's a nonsense term. You've got to have the talents. You've got to build right. So that's going to inform whom they pick.

And I know that you and I both think that there's a collection of prospects, like the four likeliest ones being Cam Whitmore, Taylor Hendrix, Grady Dick, and the guy that neither of us want, Charis Walker. So, you know, there's obviously, this is not an upside. But, I mean, if you're a sports writer who is not a fan of the Pistons, then this is a great outcome, you know, because now you get more content out of it. I'm not saying, like, oh, TRIA. I'm not saying, like, oh, you traitors.

You know, how dare this be like the good outcome for you. But how do you see it working out? This is going to be such a fantastic litmus test of where the front office is at. No matter what happens, either we move up, we move down, we stay, who we actually use that pick on if we stay. Do we draft for more upside and say, we expect internal development? We're going to sign some guys. We're going to hope to push for the play in.

And we're just still going to grab high upside while it's here. Or do we go for the guy who's going to elevate that floor, be more plug-in-play, fit maybe a little more cleanly with Cade, Ivy, and Duren, and whoever else we we have on the roster. It's wide open. This is the most wide open selection. I think I said on a previous episode that I was on, it's two and five are the really tough picks in terms of the discussion. Because two, it's, you know, between Miller and Henderson, whereas at five, it's a giant question mark and how the front office proceeds is really going to tell us where we're at, where they're at, and where they think they're going and how quickly they think they're going there.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, as I see it, they're a great way of putting it, that it's just a witness test. As I see it, there are of those four, I mean, I'm going to focus on, I'm going to focus on three of them for the purposes of this analysis. You could take Cam Whitmore, who is kind of like sort of the upside, you know, he is sort of the upside pick. He's not the ultimate upside pick, but he is like the most logical upside pick if we're looking at that category, Cam Whitmore. You have Taylor Hendricks, who is of the guys who could take a number five, it would say the

most NBA ready, and the guy who's going to provide the most value, he is the highest floor. You have Grady Dick, aka Jumbo Conard, who, who, of the guys who, who, is the most NBA ready to who would be like the ultimate floor pick, in my opinion. And then you have somebody random, like Leonard Miller, who is the ultimate upside pick. And I would be surprised with the business that went that way. Oh, yeah. Shocking.

Yeah, that would, yeah, I think we'd both be extremely surprised. Then you have Jaris Walker, who's the pick to make if you hate, like watching if you hate life. I'm sorry. I'm just kidding. But I think, I know, I think very, I don't want Jaros Walker to be the pick. Maybe I'll eat my words, but I don't think he'll be the pick. and I don't want him to be the pick.

So if you had to pick between those four options, like, you know, watch go upside, at four with some upside, which would be Hendricks, just four, which would be Grady Dick, and extreme upside. So we can brole number four out because we both said we'd be shocked. Whom would you see as the likeliest there? I know Grady Dick is kind of like a sleeper,

but whom would you see as the likely is book? Yeah, another name in that Grady Dick territory is, is Anthony Black, who I think is a really high floor, really high basketball IQ. Haven't researched him yet, I'll be honest. You'll get to him. Without a doubt. Yeah, I'm just throwing him in there for, he's gotten a lot of top ten buzz, especially lately it seems like teams have been warming up to him.

He tested really well at the combines. That always helps things with the public narrative, at least. but just going from the floor like do you want a guy who provides a lot of ready-made skills who can plug in enhance where this team is going in the immediate term because we want to start playing competitive basketball playing quote-unquote meaningful minutes deep into the season So that way it's not just a slog where we have to find meaningful minutes in between piles and piles of garbage. Or do you go for Taylor Hendricks, who is a high floor player who also has a high ceiling? There is real potential for him to be an incredibly elite defender at the NBA level.

his combination of size and athleticism and defensive instincts and defensive motor mean that he could really be a legitimate stretch five in a small ball lineup and be capable of handling that that load for extended periods of time and he's young too he's he's he's not like a finished product type player so or do you go for kind of a medium to high up side like Cam Whitmore who could actually be a 20 plus point per game score but has a lot of concerns with his floor at least in terms of putting everything together the tools are there but is the toolbox there with Cam Whitmore yeah and we see a lot of flashes he this this guy has of all the people we'll we'll talk about over the next month or so before the draft who's a likely

Pistons pick at five. He'll have the best highlight reel, the best tape that a fan just browsing the internet for five minutes, oh, what's Cam Whitmore's game like? Oh, he's amazing. The problem is, though, is that he doesn't

put that together on a consistent basis. And that's kind of the question is where do you put the balance? Where do you put the ultimate sort of decision weight on.

We're going to learn so much about the, we're going to learn so much about the actual Pistons organization with this pick, no matter what happens. Picks one through four, I could pretty much, for a little less so, but I could pretty much feel like what they were going to do. But five, no idea. Yeah. Well, I don't know if a one through four, I feel like if the Pistons aren't very interested in Amen Thompson.

I mean, we'd be having the same discussion at four. Well, then at least Amon Thompson, you could see if anyone else wants him and then trade down. Yeah, that's a good point. With pick five and the team who is picking it for, where Amon Thompson's a pretty clean fit, at least from an outside perspective. So Amon Thompson might not be there to trade. So you see how we are in this vortex of possibility. and this is not an easy job.

This is going to be Weaver's biggest test. Yeah, I think, I mean, you have Campbell, more whom I agree has probably the highest ceiling. I mean, I haven't researched Anthony Black, like I said, but out of the four, you include Jaris Walker there, whom I would include probably has the highest ceiling, but has question marks. Mike has shot right now.

He shot a good percentage on catch and shoot threes, but low lift, slow shot. It'd be hard to get that off the NBA level. I mean, he's very athletic. The guy has a first step that makes you, he's just sneaky. Basically, he's up to speed, up the full speed by, you know, by one or two steps. He's got great two-foot athleticism. He's very strong. Yep.

You know, be a solid wing at the same time. Have to get that shot together is like a really, his passing is a major question mark. Yep. You know, as just a creator versus a complimentary guy who's attacking closeouts, attacking mismatches, you know, you don't know what that is. He's not a great one-foot lever without a runway. So it's definitely an upside big versus Taylor Hendricks, whom I agree, has very high defensive upside. He is, you know, he's got good size. He's about, you know, close to six, eight and a half, I believe.

Seven foot wingspan. He's like, I'd say like a 70, 75th percentile athlete. and he's got good instincts. He's a really hard worker. He provide that sort of defense that this lineup can really benefit from. He's highway switchable. Like you said, he could even be a small ball five. He can hold his own at most positions.

And he's a high percentage three-point shooter with a high release, where the upside gets a little bit lower, is that his handle is bad, and he has got the questionable future as a creator. On defense, Cam Whitmore is a questionable ceiling because his awareness doesn't really seem that great at all. You never know if that will get better. And then, you know, again, the ultimate floor pick of Grady Dick,

who's likely to be a very good shooter, but has questions on defense and as a creator as well. So you kind of got like three levels there. I don't know where Jaris Walker fits into this. Yeah, Jaris Walker is just that type of thing where if you really think he's going to be more like the high school version of himself, then, oh, he, he kind of steps out of that role of being a bigger or sorry more athletic smaller less physical beef stew type player and okay he actually can be a connective tissue passer in a very real way on offense that

could be quite exciting to marry with the defensive upside intelligence that he displays very intelligent player. I think the defensive upside. I have questions about his switchability on the guards. And that's if we look really heavily on the Houston tape that he put out this year. It's I'm with you there. I am not sold on Jaris Walker at five especially. If we trade back by all means, sure.

I could absolutely stomach that at eight. But at five, I don't know. I think I kind of like the other guys just a tier ahead or a half tier ahead enough to want to take them. Yeah. For those of you who were around for that post-wattery discussion, you've already heard me say this. But I think that Walker has been very oversimplified as a more athletic Isaiah Stewart, you know, which would be conceivably enticing. It does leave aside some of Stewart's shortcomings. And sure, those are largely athletic and names.

nature. I mean, this touch also isn't that great, but Isaiah Stewart is like in a hundred percentile as far as work ethic on the court and team focus. This guy would do anything, and this is how I felt about Bruce Brownman. He was with the Pistons, even though I didn't think too highly of his capabilities at the time. I mean, these guys will do whatever you tell them to do, you know, this is what's going to be best for the team. If it takes zero shots, then they'll do it. And Isaiah Stewart on offense, if it's Isaiah, I want you to go barreling full speed into the other team's center. Not every possession. He would do it. Jaris Walker pulls up for jump shots right inside the three-point line because he doesn't want to drive into contact. He just does not use

his physicality on offense. He is not the hard worker that I say his steward is. And he got questions about his switchability and the ones and twos. He got questions about his three-point shooting. I agree with this. I agree with your characterization of him as a connective tissue passer. I think it would be less useful next to next to Kate in particular, also Ivy. Yeah, I just I just don't want him at number five. Yeah, thank you played it out pretty well. Some people are higher on Walker. And I think that it's not unreasonable to think that he's an option at five.

That's sort of the whole mix, this whole mix of different names that we're getting is that there's a lot of reasonable options, even if we don't prefer them, that Detroit's going to have to consider. and there's so many different directions we go from here because I said this in the discord as well which is that last year five felt like okay we're locked in we're we're just going to take um our guy and it was going to be ivy or mathron yeah i think it was going to be ivy or mathern or we had a trade down you know sneakily in place if i ivy didn't fall and we were going to draft durin a little earlier. It felt like we already had a plan of like what was going to happen. And maybe Troy's going to figure something out here or not. But man, this, it really felt like the Pistons had a work, had a really solid idea at five of what they wanted to acquire and who was going to be

available. This year, not so much. Yeah. We knew there was a chance Ivy would fall to five, there is almost no chance that Miller falls to five. Oh, yeah, I'd be shocked. I mean, maybe if a report comes out that says, oh, yes, definitely this guy knew all about the gun. Yeah, that's the only end. And that would make Miller drop a whole lot further than five, most likely. I mean, well, that could conceivably cause the NBA to withdraw, you know, to freeze his draft eligibility overall. If this guy were potentially involved in murder, the NBA would get involved with that i got to think yeah look at what what the NBA is about to level jaw in the coming days of weeks that would that would make it harder on even harder on Miller yeah exactly exactly it would

be really really bad and he would be undraftable um yeah so at that point i don't think that's going to happen so yeah do i so unless barring some strange occurrence where you know teams just feel differently than the public conception to a very wide degree. We're not going to get a father like Ivy. Ivy was gifted to us, and I just don't see that really happening. So this is where we pivot. Who do you got? Yeah, exactly. That's just what I was about to ask you. So I feel like 60% of this, well, geez, if Weaver didn't have the capacity to come completely out of left field. So I would say at this point, probably Whitmore is the likeliest pick as the guy who might be able to serve as the third option,

you know, the conceivable third option on a championship team. So I would say 60% probably Whitmore. I'll call 55% Whitmore and then another 35% Hendricks and then another 10% I don't know Jaris Walker if they really like him, but I doubt it. And if you go with if you go with Hendricks, it's possible you trade down with Orlando, for example, who might have some interest in, you know, in fielding

a back court of, say, Faults and Whitmore. Yeah. You know, that's actually not a bad option for them. You know, they're not altogether strong power forward in Boncaro and kind of like a mad defender,

Wendell Carter Jr. You have Jalen Suggs, who has been less than impressive so far. Constantly injured doesn't help. And Cole Anthony, you know, the best is the bench flame through. I like Hendricks. Here's the thing. You know, I think he'll be a fairly high level 3ndy player in the NBA. And of course, everybody will have a tendency to say, oh, well, you know, me, you know, Mikkelbridge is just something like that. I mean, he really, you know, I don't want to make that comparison. He really fits into the Detroit ethos. The guy is, is a rugged defender and a super hard worker and a smart defender. And if business needs that,

and then do the size. It's just the upside. And, you know, and his measurements are rates and his athleticism is pretty good. Yeah. And the pistons need all of those things. But the upside as a creator is a big question. You know, is this worthy of a number five pick where the pistons stand right now? How do they feel about the guys currently on the roster?

How do they feel about their ability to make, if necessary, trade in the future? How do they feel about their ability to sign the likes of Jeremy Grant? Because, you know, feel the front court of Taylor Hendricks and Jeremy Grant. I mean, that's pretty strong. And yeah, that's that's kind of the thing. When you put it like that, it does start to make the outline of Hendricks really starts to make sense. Because he can play next to Duren. Or if you want to go super wide out, five out, you can pull Duren and play Hendrix at the five for stretches.

I think that in Hendricks, you know, we can get into this more and maybe a specific episode. He really excels at that help side defense. Well, if Duren continues his progress and doesn't have to be hung out to dry all the time by his teammates, he could be that dropped offender. Then we have a helpside guy to assist him, to assist everybody, which is super, super important in NBA defense. I mean, just go watch Draymond Green. and that's kind of the archetype that I could really see working. And these 3D players are very rare. And we talk about it a lot, but there's always caveats.

Whereas Hendricks is a big potential four or five type 3&D player. Those types of guys are never available for a reason. They don't grow on trees. Yeah. No. Yeah, it's not like just go out and add some 3&D wings. Yeah. This doesn't work that way.

Yeah. And you have like this enticing idea. Like if you can, well, you probably have to overpay Jeremy Grant. If you want to get it to wherever you get. But let's say you get a Jeremy Grant type. And then, you know, Ivy has the, is the, you know, the shortest and in the weas-long player on the team at, you know, 6.9 wing span thereabouts. And you've got K but 7-foot wingspan. If you got Durham with what, like 7-foot-5, Jeremy Grant, 7-3.

Hendricks at seven foot. I mean, it's an extremely long rangey. Beves stew off the bench. Yeah, pretty, yeah, exactly. Pretty darn athletic. I do not want. It's a pretty darn athletic team. I don't want. No. I hate. I really strongly dislike the fact that the acquisition of Wiseman has shoe-warned Isaiah Stewart in the power forward because I think it's just a bad position for him. He doesn't have an ideal position, but I think it's worse than center. So, no, I absolutely do not see him as the long-term power forward for this team. So, yeah, so that's what Hendricks gets you. Cam, more you put him in there you have higher scoring potential you have more risk the fact his

defense may never develop the guy may just be dumb on defense that's a possibility and then you have two two minus defenders um yeah on the wing spots um and that that's called um uh bad bad yeah that's just that's just called um matchup and hunted uh yeah that's just called um matchup and hunted uh natural content. Not an idea. No way. That you can handle one bad defender and even them, even they will cost you. As we saw with Jamal Murray in tonight's game to date this podcast a little.

Jamal Murray got into some serious foul trouble and couldn't close out as tightly on the guys. So basically, LeBron just took Jamal Murray off pick and rolls. and he just got cooked. And that's how the Lakers almost caught up, like a 20 plus point deficit because they had one bad matchup, one. Yeah, what are you going to throw at him? Michael Porter, Jr.?

Ha ha ha ha ha. Exactly. Like literally laughable. Exactly. I mean, I'm like, genuinely, it's like literally laughable. The idea of throwing Michael Porter Jr. at LeBron James. like nobody Michael Malone would probably laugh at the idea yeah no that's just that just isn't happening

so because of that you can't have multiples of these these mismatches especially at the wing it's just going to get exploited relentlessly so you have to hope Ivy and or Whitmore figures it out if we were to go the Whitmore direction. Whitmore has a lot more to figure out. But if it comes together, you're looking at this third option

that would really make a three-headed monster that could be very, very difficult to game plan for. Yep, it could be. Even if Whitmore never gets to the, sorry, even if Whitmore never gets to the point where he's constantly, or he's a big volume creator for others, we have Cain ivy in theory they're going to be doing the load of that between the two of them especially when we're hopefully competing so Whitmore in that case he's play finishing he's exploiting those matchups that are created for him with his size and athleticism and he's catching open shots and making them that's a recipe for a tremendous offensive attack that could really put us to that next level. But the defense and the other offensive toolkit pieces have to come

together to a higher degree than what Hendricks has to do. Hendrix has much further to go to be that type of offensive force if he's ever even going to get there. But the floor is so, so high. The defensive potential is so high. So that's my pitch. I'm a big Hendricks fan. I rest my case. Yeah, I'm feeling better about Hendricks. The more I think about him, you know, the more tape I watch on him, I'm just thinking more and more highly of him. Of course, the question is the ceiling, of course. And like you said, it's going to be a real indication of how the front office is thinking. Yeah, with Whitmore, definitely Ivy struggled in the pick and roll in college even in the NCAA.

And he had a lot of trouble. I mean, it was not for any lack of effort. He just had a lot of trouble in making decisions. And if you have two guys like that, it's not just additive, like one plus one bad defense. It's multiplicative. I mean, if it becomes a huge problem, if you just have one guy who's struggling on defense in the postseason, it's like, okay, maybe you can protect him. If you have two, then you're in big trouble. And with more just its ability to make decisions in the NCAA, it's like, at times, like, what are you doing?

Like, seriously. Like, why is this? Yeah, it's like why, you know, and again, we can talk about this more like when, you know, when, you know, in a more with more specific conversation. But it's like what are you doing? Like, why are you making these decisions on defense? Like what is going through your head? And is this an experience? Is this a guy? It's, I don't think it's for lack of caring. Is this a guy who just, it doesn't have the acumen, like a Marvin Bagley type where it's like you're just going to make bad decisions. You cannot put him next to. Ivy. I think that Ivy might get to the point where like Reggie Jackson was in this first season with the Pistons where it's like you're, you don't have good defensive acumen, like the good defensive decision making, but you work hard enough that you're just a below average defender. Yeah. Ivey can get there. And if Ivy is the only guy in your starting lineup who's like that, then you might be fine. If you have another guy like that, like Whitmore, and you have both of them

and they're on the wing, then your defense is unhinged. And you have to worry about Whitmore as well as a shooter. But like you said, there's the upside. Like an offense where Caden Ivy are generating all the attention and you have Whitmore just kind of like attacking closeouts and Whitmore attacking mismatches, you know, and of course cuts aren't a huge source of offense

in the NBA, but they're useful. Of course, I think Hendricks is better at that because he's taller and comparably athletic. At least in that capacity he's comparably athletic. But yeah, so it's just so much of a question. And then you have Grady Dick where it's like, okay, you can shoot your jumbo

shooter. But that's about it. He's like Michael Porter Jr. Yeah, I don't think it's a bad comparison. And hopefully he's not as dumb as Michael Porter Jr., who is just a remarkably stupid. Hopefully his back is healthier, I was going to say. Yeah, that too. Michael Porter Jr. is a remarkably stupid NBA player. He's a really good three-point shooter when he's on, but my goodness, does that guy take some idiotic shots? I get to see it in person. And again, this is not like any more

valid and seating on television, but it's like when you see Michael Porter Jr. dribble into a contested mid-range pull-up from literally right in front of the right inside three-point line, which is the worst shot in the half court outside of like taking a shot from the logo. He can't pass. He makes dumb decisions on defense. He's remarkably dumb. Yeah. Yeah.

One of the most overpaid players in the league. He landed in a situation where Denver couldn't afford to live. let him go. And his agent, to his credit, got him paid. Yeah. Maybe maybe one day you'll have this kind of player being like, I don't feel like I deserve the salary right now. You know, I feel like I really need to improve before you pay me this much. How many digits? What did you say? How many digits? How many digits? Yeah. It's like, I feel like it's just not enough. But yeah, I just don't provide enough right now. So, yeah, it's, I'd say, those are the two likeliest picks. I mean, Weaver can come out of left field and trade down or just

take somebody we really don't expect, like a Leonard Miller type. And we can talk about him later, like somebody who's quite a bit rower with higher potential. But it's just a question of, and this would have been the same thing with Scoot and Miller. We would have seen, does this team really want to look for right now? Or do we want to take Scoot and figure it out? You know, that would have been the real question. And it's similar now. I'm feeling like it's almost kind of like if we had to pick between Hendricks and Whitmore, it would almost be kind of like a 50-50, I feel like. Yeah, I feel very split on it myself. Some people feel much more confident one way or another. Some people, like I said, really into Jaris Walker. We've got a couple people in the Discord really into the Thompson twins.

Oh, sorry, it's not going number five. I feel confident in that. You know, I will, I will definitely humor the idea of buying one of the ASAR stands in Jersey, if he goes five. I'd be shocked. I'd be more shocked at ASAR than Miller personally. And Miller? Yeah. Miller seems like the spicy meatball that Troy always seems to get hooked on where it's like. Well, if everything really comes together, he could be awesome.

You're talking Whitmore, not Miller. No, I'm talking about Miller. Oh, Leonard Miller. Gotcha. I thought you meant. Yeah, never mind. It's my bad. Oh, yeah.

There's two millers. I'm talking about Leonard Miller. Yes, they both turn wheat into grain profession. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Sorry, a little profession joke there. That's what a Miller is.

It is. Yes, indeed. So, so. I hear just to be in contrast, I'll say Hendricks to close, close it out. Yeah. Just just going with the guy with the defensive versatility and three point, the really high level three point shooting off the catch. Yeah, and issues inside the arc, unfortunately.

I mean, his athletic measurable, just in terms of anthropetics and basic athletics are very good. I mean, all around very good. He's got the ethos, you know, the Detroit ethos, so to speak, for what that's worth, the work ethic, the defensive IQ switchability. And Whitmore is, again, higher upside, but far more questions. So it'll, you know, we got five and a half weeks. This is one of the painful things.

We had five and a half weeks before, between the end of the season, the lottery, we get another five and a half weeks until the draft. It's going to be a wait, put it that way. Yes. Yeah. All right. Any closing thoughts? Closing thoughts are buckle up.

Fair enough. Yeah. My closing thoughts are, it was a disappointing outcome, but a lot of unexpected things happen in the NBA, particularly in the draft. You never know when you pick somebody who looks like they, not necessarily a risky thing. pick, but somebody, I just keep coming back to Donovan Mitchell for some reason. Or it's like you just end up getting a lot more than you expected out of a draft pick. And it's not necessarily usual or unusual. So while it was a disappointing outcome, don't count out the possibility.

And I'm not saying this just out of copium. Never count out the possibility that you draft somebody who turns into a lot more than you expected that he would. Or draft somebody who turns out to be a lot less than you expected. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, that's more likely to happen and it's out of those top picks. Yeah.

Yeah. In any case, so that will be it for today's episode. Like I've said, keep your head up, folks. It was not the outcome we were hoping for. It might seem a little bit unfair after a 17-win season, but, you know, we'll wait and see entirely possible that this pick could be more than we might, you know, much more than we would expect upon first glance.

So, yep, thanks for listening, folks. Catch you in the next episode.