Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 152: 2023 Pre-Draft Roundup

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

This episode rounds out the pre-draft episode by way of a discussion with an unusual format! 

Welcome back, everybody. You're listening to another episode of Drive Into the Basket. I'm Mike, joined again here by Price. And as of the recording this episode, we're about eight days away from the 2023 MBA draft recording this on Wednesday morning. I usually record on Tuesday night and post early on Wednesday morning. So this is why this will be out in the afternoon instead. So, yeah, eight days out. Price, how are you feeling? I'm excited for this process to be over, to say the least. Yeah. You, it's definitely been different. I feel like from the last couple of years, two years ago, of course, it was just the anticipation of seeing whom the Pistons would pick number one overall. Last year was, you know, we dropped the number five, not ideal, but there's

some good players, definitely good players available here. And, you know, we got to pick first overall last year. So, you know, still feeling pretty good about this. This year, okay, well, we drop from number one to number five, the players aren't quite as good in the available range. And it's just been a long wait, you know, from a 17 win season, five and a half weeks to the lottery, five and a half weeks to the draft. And yeah, I'm looking to see who gets picked as well, obviously. So, yeah, not too far off. So this is going to be kind of sort of the last of the draft series, you know, typically post episodes on Wednesday mornings. And that means that episode will be, you know, largely outdated about, you know, not much more than 36 hours later.

So next week will be kind of just a wrap up. This week we're going to do something fun. Price and I are going to play a, I don't know, I feel like devil's advocate is kind of like a religious term, but I guess it's kind of passed into the common parlance. So we're each going to take the two prospects we like the least, and we're going to argue why the pistons should draft them. One gets to argue why the pistons shouldn't draft them. Yeah. So, yeah, the first things first, let's talk a little bit about Asar Thompson. Now, we did an episode about the Thompson twins back in the very, very beginning of this process, which was, man, like, month before the watery, I think. And Assar Thompson, of course, very much has been reported to be

up there on the Pistons draft board. One of the prospects is likely to be taken along with, you know, possibly his brother if he's on there as well. This is an option. If he's still available at number five, I don't think either of us think he will be. Yeah. So let's just do a bit of a refresher on the Thompson twins here. So, uh, Saar, uh, he has an identical twin named name and he might have heard of him. Yeah. They, they both played for, uh, in the overtime, elite week, which is basically a glorified high school week. Absolutely. And I mean, I'm deriding OTE because OTE is terrible compared to the NCAA OTEs is a horrible week, which, which everything, in my opinion, and I know I've been talking a lot. I'll let you get in here in a second.

Every, everything I think when you're talking about the Thompson Twin should be viewed through that lens. So yeah, so let's talk a SAR real quick. What do you like about a SAR? And, you know, we can, yeah, we can, we can get to the kind of like, you know, the meat of the episode, but just in terms of what's good about Asar. Yeah, the main strengths of Asar's game are his overall athleticism is very good, very good size. He's a little more built, a little more strong through the chest than his twin, Amen, and Asar in general just has more strength and defensive acumen, I would say, than his brother. So there's greater hope

that he'll be the more switchable dynamic player long term than his twin. Yeah, definitely the defense is there. On defense. Yeah, definitely defense is there. I mean, what do you like? And the shooting is considerably further along as well.

Like we can easily say just in terms of the two of them, like a SAR higher defensive upside, much further along as a shooter, which means that his shot is only like a big question mark rather than with Amen, like your form is absolutely not really horrible and you rarely shut threes at all. So that's where Asar is better. And then A man is better, more of an elite athlete, much better at attacking the basket,

much better touch around the basket, better playmaker. Yeah, that's the long and short of it. And Asar has good instincts when it comes to passing to kind of get into the negatives. I'm not as big on his decision making once he makes a decision, if that makes sense. there's kind of a linearity with his thought process where once he initiates either the pass or the drive, he kind of sticks to it and doesn't change or react at that moment. So while he can make a good initial read, his second, third, fourth reads as the defense changes to his decision, aren't always the best. And that's a big issue, especially because he was getting kind of, I know O.T. is weird. They play each other all the time, but he was kind of getting really stymied by

much, much worse players and athletes in that league. Lassar as a playmaker, you mean? Asa as a playmaker, yeah. Yeah. One thing I will say, and this is an indication of how truly unfair the world is, is that Amen's hands are about a quarter inch smaller in terms of length and three quarter an inch, three quarters of an inch smaller in terms of width. I mean, goodness, you guys are born.

from the same embryo. Yep. And you come out and then you got to grow up and find that your twin has larger hands than you do. I mean, where's the justice in that? All you have to fall back on if you're A-M-N is your elite athleticism and playmaking and, you know, probability of at the very least making a ton of money playing basketball. It's a tough world to live in. So, yeah, Sard does have slightly larger hands for what that's worth.

Yeah, both guys, exact same height as Cam Whitmore, six inch, six-foot, five.75 inches, each has a seven-foot wingspan, both very athletic. Amen's a super elite athletes. Assar is just very good. And, you know, I was thinking we could do a little bit of a profile about Asar, but I feel like we'd just kind of be repeating ourselves once we actually got into one of us really having to argue in favor of having him on the team. So, which is going to be you because you like him less than I do.

I've softened, yeah, I've softened a little bit on Asar. I think he's likely number two on the Pearson's draft board at this point. behind Cam Whitmore. It doesn't necessarily mean I like it because I don't think that his I think his upside is probably, you know, if he really gets shot together. And by all accounts, the two of them are super hard workers, great attitude, you know, and that's, that's good to know. But I think his upside is really just given how much he struggles on the drive right now, I think his upside is largely just pretty much off ball three and D guy with passing upside. You know, when he's, he's not really going to be run a ton of the pick and roll, I think, for example. So his passing offside is primarily going to

manifest itself when he catches, you know, when he, when he, when he catches the ball to three point line and is launching into a drive straight away. So just three and D guy, maybe high level three and D guy with passing upside. Is that something you want to, yeah, is that something you want to get out of the number five pick? I have my doubts. So, yeah. So the main argument for Assar Thompson is that. Let's, let's, let's get into this formally. So we're, we're in, you know, we're going to hear now, Price talk about why he thinks Asar is a great fit for the Detroit Pistons. All right. Let's get into character here.

Okay. All right. This is going to hurt. I'm going to channel my dear Robbie. Yeah, it's going to hurt you when you have to argue against Taylor Hendricks as well. That's what's really going to hurt you. Oh, man. So, Assar Thompson should be the number five pick, regardless of whoever is on the board.

Oh, dear. Yeah. Because he brings a unique blend of athleticism at a dire position of need. shooting and passing upside and can be a terrific connective tissue piece next to the young core we have on the roster. And in essence, he is not just the best fit for what we need. He also brings real upside. If you believe in the shooting to come around and he can be a very good catch and shoot player, can play off ball, can play on ball, make great decisions, and sort of elevate this team's overall defensive floor while not hindering and actually accelerating the offensive potential

of having a cohesive offensive system built around ball movement and athleticism. Wow, that sounds like a really compelling player. You know, why isn't he number one in your draft board? I'm just kidding. Don't get into that. Okay. You know, so I see where you're coming from in terms of a guy who could, you know, who could, if he gets things together, like you said, be a great connective tissue guy, be a really switchable defender. And I mean, my concerns, like, what if he doesn't get the shot together? Like, what if he always remains kind of like a low 30% shooter? Like, let's say, like he did make his improvements in the OTE, but he was very inconsistent and a ton of his made threes. And, you know, his, his, his percentages in general were skyrocketed by his performance in the playoffs, it's getting really hot over the course of four games. So what could justify you taking him with the knowledge that his shot really is still kind of a question mark?

Well, again, all of his shooting numbers from both on ball and off ball numbers elevated as time went on. And he showed that he's a real playoff performer in the OTE playoffs. and a guy who faces challenges head-on like that, who is able to bring his game to a new level when the pressure's on, that's the type of player we need in our organization. My goodness, you're really good at this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to measure up.

I'll do my best. All right. So what would you say about people who have questions about his overall offensive upside because the guy really struggled a lot in the half court? beyond just his shot from the perimeter, which I feel like is a little bit more inconsistent, you know, down and then up and then down and then up again. He shot like 41% I think on half court layups. He, you know, and mid-range pull-ups aren't really, again, it's not really a thing many guys

do in the NBA, but he was bad on those two. So for people who do have questions about his offensive upside and a half court, what would you say? He's a tremendous worker. And this is a kid who's going to give 100% to growing his game. And there are not only zero concerns about what he does off court, in fact, he's a tremendous positive.

And because of that, he's going to keep fostering this culture of working hard and putting in the extra time in that we as an organization desperately want and value. So to that point, I think he's going to work his tail off to improve in that area. The OTE is a league where there is a lot of younger and lesser athletes playing in there. However, they also play each other all of the time. And so they get to really specify down to the nitty-gritty, like in a playoff setting, the counters, how to stop a player when they do this certain thing the right way. In essence, Asar isn't going to be playing in a league that can so perfectly counter everything that he throws out there.

It would just be playing against players who are 10 times better than his average competition in the OT. That 10 times might be generous. It may be 100 times. Yeah. Oh, let me, let me get to my rebuttal. I think you've done a great job. I mean, this is this. I'm kind of concerned.

I'm not even going to be able to come anywhere close to matching this, let alone topping it when we get to the next guy who's Jarrett Walker, whom I'm going to have to suck it up and argue why I think, why I think that Jaris Walker would be such as you could pick for the pistol. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, if you've raised some points about, you know, why he could be good for this team, his work ethic, you know, why he could get there.

And my rebuttal, of course, would be if this is a guy, if a shot doesn't come together, if it never becomes reliable, what do you really have? You know, you need to have that shot, obviously, as a perimeter player. Assar might not have much half-court upside in the first place. His touch at the rim was very bad. His ability to get to the rim was not very good. These were against, I mean, this was against really bad competition in the OTE against players, almost invariably. He was drastically more athletic than players he knew how to play again. Uh-huh. And yeah, I mean, he's at this point, kind of like a zero level,

some zero level NBA score. This is how he would be coming out of the OTE. Can't really shoot threes. You know, can't, it doesn't have any in-between game. It struggles to score at the rim. So you have your questions about, you know, like the three that has to be there, period. And that's a question beyond that, what's his overall upside? Can he get it together any further than than just the three in order to justify being the fifth pick? How much playmaking is he really going to be doing from on the ball on this team with Caden Ivy on the floor. So, yeah, strong transition guys, strong, you know, strong athlete. I think he'll be, he'll be a strong defender. But the offense is just such a question mark for a team that still really needs high

level offensive talent. So that would be my rebuttal. And of course, that we have to contextualize everything in this performance in the OTE with the fact that this is not the NCAA. This is like drastically below the NCAA. So, uh, yeah, I mean, do you have, do you have any thoughts in, in response to any of that, or I think that's just a good place to close it, and I can ask you if pretending has made you feel any better about Asar. I hope I did a decent job. Oh, you did great. Impersonating Robbie, one of our Discord members who's an Assar truther.

Yeah. I think it's a good place to close it. I can't really don the mask anymore, so to speak. Yeah. And where's Asar at this point? amongst the four players we're talking about it. Again, we didn't really get into Amen, because either of us,

not of us really believe he's going to fall to the pistons. Well, let's say if you had to pick between Amen and Assara, number five, who would you pick? Even though the fit is really questionable, I'd probably lean Amen, just because the upside is really good with his ability to lead a transition offense, and I think he could be an exceptional.

exciting trade piece or, you know, push out Ivy and then we could trade Ivy for assets. So similar idea with Scoot, you trade the guy who, you know, might not fit or be the best of them. And then, you know, kind of go from there. So just elevate the talent level of the team and, you know, keep, keep moving forward. So even though a SAR fits better, I just kind of have him at the very end. of this range, and I kind of have A.M. A.M. a slight half tier higher, so that's why I would lean A.M. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I think A.man's upside is just tremendously higher. And even if you, yeah, I mean, you would be struggling to find good value at him, you know,

if you're playing him next to Ivy and next to K, though even then, I mean, a guy who's, who is, it's like hyperathetic, he can shoot at like 38%. I mean, there's this hyperathetic wing, who probably would be able to play pretty good defense and operate really well off the ball in general. Just the height gives an added dimension there. But yeah, I'd be shocked if A-Men drop pass number four. You could end up looking stupid. Something to talk about next week, I suppose. Exactly.

So, all right, let's move on, Jaris Walker. Okay. Oh, so Asar, is he at the end of the range for you? Is he beneath Walker on your board? Yeah. Okay. So he's right at the end after Hendricks Whitmore and Walker. Yeah, of those four, correct.

All right, let's move on to Jaris Walker, power forward out of Houston. So, you know, we did a full profile on Jaros Walker, I think, two episodes ago. Neither one of us is a big, is a huge fan. I'm significantly less of a fan, I think, even less of a fan than you are. Yeah, that's true. So let's talk, let's talk Jaris Walker. So, you know, watch the Pistons draft Jaris Walker well. And, yeah, Rod, another guy from Discord, you know, if you're waiting.

I'm trying to try not to copy you too much here. So why why would the Pistons draft Jarrett Walker? Why indeed? Well, you know, Jaris Walker has the upside to be an elite role player in the NBA. You know, he's a guy who's who's real strong on defense. You know, he's the defense is really as bread and butter. And, you know, he's, he's got great mobility. He's great to relocating.

He's got great instincts. He's got really good length. He just, he robs. around the interior super well. He's a really good weak side rim protector. He is just smart in all different types of coverages. And, you know, he works really hard. He's athletic. He's just a guy with a lot of upside there on the defensive end of things, you know, a guy you really want roaming around the interior for you. And the guy who I just think is going to provide a lot of value. His athleticism again, pretty darn good. You know, he's a good weeper. He's quick. He's got a decent first step.

He's strong. I mean, the guy weighs 250. And like he really just, you know, if you want to go in this direction, is one of these guys who could really kind of embody that Detroit ethos on defense, though I feel like Asar is going to work hard on defense and Hendricks as well. And on offense, I mean, he's one of these high IQ guys. And in terms of his passing, he processes the game very quickly. He, you know, he's a really solid, connected passer. He's a guy who can get the ball and make a quick decision on what to do

and, you know, typically make the right decision. and you can't teach offensive IQ. In my opinion, you can't. You can teach seasoning, but some guys just have it in a way that others. You can't teach season. Basically, guys can become seasoned, but sometimes some guys have IQ in a way that others don't, where you just have an ability to process the game

that is just better than your average peer significantly better. And Walker could be one of those guys on offense. He's got some shooting upside. Just in terms of his three-point shooting, should I think be decent from there. When he's finishing somebody else's office, offense around the rim. He's fairly strong at that. And he certainly doesn't lack for confidence as a creator in the interior, though he still has a ways to go in that respect. So good size,

could play some small ball five. And yeah, just a guy with some characteristics, you know, particularly his, his IQ on both ends that you can't teach. So, you know, I think he would be a fantastic fit, you know, pick for the pistons at number five. I'm just trying to, you know, swallow some vial here. Anyway, all right. What do you have to say in return and, you know, in rebuttal to that, that unstoppable argument of mine? Yeah, so I'm going to put on my best Mike impersonation.

And he, uh-oh. Yeah, Jaris Walker is just a guy who is almost has no role on an offense in a way that could be really, really difficult to justify taking at five. Yes, we can look at the tools that Walker has and the athleticism that he brings at his strength, but he doesn't utilize it in any effective way. He, his passing is going to be neutered once he reaches the NBA level if he can't come together as a score in a real way. He does not finish through contact at all. So his strength is rendered almost useless in terms of finishing in the paint, which is a big question mark. We would maybe even dine to call him a wuss.

What? What? And then there's also the fact that his catch and shoot numbers aren't great. And if he's going to be an off ball player, I mean, 34% is not what you would like to see in that regard. and on offense, this might be a guy who is less than the sum of his parts, because the whole toolkit doesn't come together in a real way. And then let's get to the defense where he seems to be pretty effective, yes, at guarding the rim, and he's a decent guy when it comes to guarding down to some threes,

but then guards blow right by him. Switching, actually his hips are fairly stiff and can make it pretty difficult for him to stay in front of even athletic threes and fours at the NBA level. And if you look at almost all of his highlight reel plays, they're against bigger, slower players at the NCAA level. So his defense might actually be somewhat overrated.

And in total, this is a guy who, again, gets a lot of praise for his characteristics. and not actually the film that he put on the floor. Yeah, but can't we look at his high school film and say, hey, he was a, we played more physically there. And he was, and I'm not just as an A side breaking character. I'm not trying to draw it to anybody who brought this up, you know, brought up his high school film.

I've seen it brought up. So, yeah, you know, and Bam out of bio, it's brought up, you know, himself as an example, look at high school film. So, you know, it's there. So, yeah, if you look at his high school film and say, well, look at the passing, he was able to do at the high school level. And he played more physically at the high school level. I mean, does that make you feel any different about his prospect of, you know, driving into contact at the NCAA at the NBA level or, you know, doing more passing at the NBA level?

There might be something there, but just speaking realistically, when the competition level elevated, he defaulted to highly inefficient forms of offense. And it seems like his instincts are actually overplayed as a strength, whereas, yes, he does have passing capabilities, but look at who we have on the roster. We have a guy named Killian Hayes with great passing instincts who can't seem to put the ball on the floor in any significant way, and the risk of drafting a bigger Killian Hayes at five is just too much for me to really justify. Got it. But, I mean, don't you think that conceivably we could see his work ethic on defense translated somehow to offense? I mean, is there, you know, what if, what if there's a good reason? I mean, do you think there's any good reason for his

aversion to contact on offense? Is there anything that could explain that away? I mean, part of it could be the fact that in the college setting, it isn't, that the paint gets packed a lot more quickly and often than in an NBA context would be. So, again, arguing against myself, as the Jaros Walker hater, you can see a world where more spacing leads to better matchups, leads to more effective utilization of his strengths, like his strength, and relative athleticism for his size and position. So in that case, yes, there is a world where Jaros Walker is justifiable at the five spot, but he's ridiculously bad at floaters and he should never, ever take a floater in the NBA, even though he loves it.

Yeah. It's got to be a year two or three thing that he works in. It's, if he takes volume floaters, he is going to be one of the worst offensive rookies. Yeah. So I'll just make my closing statement here and then I'll talk about, and then I'm going to fall apart and talk about why, you know, why what I said was not probably, whatever, I'll get into it. So, yeah, I would just say, you know, for Jaris Walker, you know, why they should draft

him, a guy who's going to strengthen a team that needs help on defense. You know, it's a high IQ guy who's going to provide more passing on offense and just gives you more options that way. And, you know, and just a guy who's going to, who's going to help to help to set the tone, you know, help to continue building this, you know, super, you can tell when I'm having trouble when I'm saying you know repeatedly, who's going to just help. continue to build this culture that the Pistons are really looking to build. And again, he's got stuff, his IQ on offense and defense that just that you can't teach.

And I mean, that gives him just a higher floor, a higher floor in some ways than other guys have. And yeah, so that's my spiel. Of course, in reality, I feel like you have the switch defense is a huge hole in his defense. That's the passing, I think, is more likely connected passing is useful. But this is not a guy who necessarily on this team is going to be doing, running a lot of actions is just an interior playmaker. I think Duran they're hoping is going to be that guy also.

And yeah, just I mean a couple of things that I would have mentioned on your on maybe as well. It's just like you're, you did mention this actually, just not in the context of fit. You're risking bringing like a poor shooter onto a team that needs more spacing, not West. And West guys clogging the interior rather than more. And you're playing him next to Jalen Duran, who's a traditional center.

And yeah. Yeah. I feel great. I feel great. I feel great about Walker. Yeah. Yeah. And the context. The contact diversion. It's like, I don't see any way of explaining that away.

Yeah, it's just I don't see any way of explaining it away. And I almost managed to get something out there about the Detroit ethos, which I don't think he really has because he's terrified of contact on offense. All right. So let's move on. I guess it would be your turn to argue against. So we'll move on to the next two. and this one's really going to hurt you because this will be Taylor Hendricks.

Oh, no. No, wait. No, no, you're the next one to start. So, no, you'd be Cam Whitmore. Okay. Take it away. You get a slight stay of execution here. I do.

You got 10 minutes. Oh, man. Okay. All right. Cam Whitmore out of Illinois. Cam Whitmore should be the pick above everyone else. Like San Vasini, I have him. Even above Brandon Miller, his big board just came out.

Anyways, Cam Whitmore out of Villanova, represents the highest upside player we could reasonably expect to be there at pick five, should he be there. Obviously, the athleticism is a huge selling point, the relative strength. This is a bulldog at the three position. He's 235 pounds. You can jump out of the gym. Great downhill acceleration. This is a guy who can be extremely effective at driving to the rim and has no issues finishing through contact, takes contact really well. This is a kid who also has pretty good catch-and-shoot numbers, even if it was a shaky three-point percentage overall.

He's actually pretty good off the catch. And what do you think he's going to be doing in Detroit with two. lead ball handlers and a tertiary ball handler in Jalen Duren. He's going to be shooting off the catch a lot. So we're going to already be minimizing one of the areas of concern out of the gate for Cam Whitmore. We're going to be simplifying his offensive role. We're going to let him be the play finisher he can be. And then on defense, sure, there might be some warts there, but he's going to be 18 on draft night. He doesn't turn 19 till July. This is a guy who's almost. almost in that Jalen Duren level of freakishly young for a draft prospect, because he is so, so young for a

freshman. And while there are concerns, this is a kid who you get him like a ball of clay and you just mold him, and he has such a great baseline of athleticism and skill tools that he should be a good player. And in fact, he has potential to be a great one. and regardless of how you feel about almost any other player who's going to be in our range, he's got the highest upside. And so that's why he should be the pick. All right. So I agree he's a fantastic athlete. He's strong guy at about 6-6-235, and he's got the scoring upside. But there are also, I would say, major, major concerns about Cam Whitmore.

So number one, of course, is his ability to process the game. And that's not just in terms of passing. just in terms of just overall processing. So what's pointed to is his passing at the NCAA level with his just historically low assist rate, his habit of driving into multiple coverage when he has teammates who are genuinely open one pass away from him. And that's a big concern. And it's not a concern that's necessary. It's basically just not necessarily, okay, T's young, he'll get a little bit older. And hopefully he'll resolve this.

And even when he got the ball at the three point line, you know, often there was a consideration period. what should I do? Should I take it? Should I shoot? It's just his ability to process the game and to make decisions at the highest level on both ends. We're just going to talk about offense right now, but just on both ends. There's always the risk, of course, the guy is never going to improve, and it's just going to be one of these guys who's just a straight line dude. I'm going to get the ball, and I'm going to drive it, and I'm just not going to be able to think about passing it or making the right decision. And just being on the floor with three passers doesn't mean that that's not going to be as much of an issue. Sure, the pistons don't need to use them as a playmaker, but basically any

player, any perimeter player in the NBA these days, aside from like the most dedicated play finishers. And I can probably think of any of them on the perimeter these days, even the likes of you can't see Duncan Robinson or Max Drews because everybody on Miami passes has to be able to make that basic pass off the drive, you know, whether it's just to get a better opportunity for an open teammate than you yourself might get or because, or so you can participate in that sort of action that Miami loves, that every team loves, but Miami is the best at, which is get a guy driving in, he passes it, swing the ball around. You know, a guy doesn't have a shot. He drives in past it again, and it's just like it's driving

kick and kick and swing and swing that completely wrong with the defense until you get a great option. So, you know, can he participate in that? Is that going to be something that he's able to, you know, that he's able to do? And you go to defense and you see questions about his IQ there as well. Are those rawness? Or is that this just a low IQ player who just makes bad off ball decisions? So, yeah, for me, that would be the primary thing. Is his IQ just not necessarily there? as his acumen, not necessarily there. They see just a player who processes the game at a low level that he's like a bottom 10 percentile player like Marvin Bagley on defense, for example, who just doesn't seem to be able to make those

decisions at the necessary speed against the best players in the world. You know, beyond that, the opportunity cost, like he's not the biggest player. He's short of 6'6. Again, same size of the Thompson's, but he's about four inches shorter in terms of wingspan, but a little bit over three inches, excuse me, which may not sound big, but, you know, 6, 8.5 wingspanner, 6, 8, and 3. corridors, I can't remember. It's not great. You're kind of giving up the dream of this big, long lineup. And I guess that just sort of hurts a little bit. But you're also, are you giving up the

possibility of having an elite defensive lineup? And I think that's a major consideration. And defense is important. The regular season is very important in the postseason. You know, it's not as important in the regular season, of course, as it used to by, it used to be by any means, but it's very important in the postseason. And finally, you know, the small hands, which I'm primarily just bringing up as an Austin Powers reference, I realize that this is a super old movie, but when they ask Austin Powers, you know, what are you afraid of? And it's two things are one of them is global thermonuclear war. And the other one is Carnies, small hands, smell like cabbage.

Cam's hands are right at the very bottom end of the size chart for all the players who are measured. And sometimes that doesn't make any difference. Sometimes it does. That's entirely speculative. So that's my spiel as to why the person should not draft Cam Whitmore. And just to counter some of that, we can justify some of Jerris's shortcomings. because of the NCAA sort of climate. But how can we not do that with Cam Whitmore and ignore the team context that he was playing in?

And that he was injured to start the year. And this was a major transitional year for Villanova. Yes. And he missed training camp, right? Yes. Yes. He missed the start of the year as a barely 18-year-old, mind you. And this is a guy who, unlike Jaros Walker,

was playing an extremely raw, kind of broken transitional team in Villanova, which Jay Wright just left. And that type of thing can really impact a player's utilization and ability to function within an offense, whereas Jaros Walker didn't have any of those concerns in Houston was a tremendous team, yet he still had major issues. So, again, not to rail against Jaros Walker in a pro-Cam Whitmore spiel, but the idea is that we can look at the context and see how this can mitigate some of the risk factors, that the slowness in processing could be partially rawness and also partially just not having

a great start to the year and not playing in a great team. And we all know, as Pistons fans, what that can do to players' numbers, aka every Cade Cunningham discussion that's happened since he touched the floor and down to Pistons uniform. Yeah, that legendary picture of him being mobbed by five bucks on the drive. Yep, exactly. And you wonder why the true shooting numbers aren't so great for a rookie. Anyways, moving forward, this is a guy who has the tools requisite to succeed at the NBA level. and actually despite a lot of his rawness, he still put up pretty good numbers.

And there's a lot of offball utility in his kind of relentless work rate. That's one thing I've become more impressed with over time is this isn't a guy who, even though yes, the processing is slow, he still moves around a lot and is still very active. On both ends, even if it doesn't always lead to a good outcome, I have zero concerns of his on-court work rate. I think he'll be a great cutter. I think he'll be a great guy who can relocate and score surprising baskets from either the three or from the restricted area.

And at that point, it's all about growing his game into being a three-level score, growing his game to being a better playmaker in a context with three potentially good plus playmakers at their positions. And he can be the key that unlocks the offensive potential we need as a franchise. While at the same time, I think there's also a floor there where he is still a useful NBA player just due to his athleticism. And what would you say in response to the concerns about size in the lineup and defense in the lineup, you know, and giving up the possibility of those elite lineups and not

side. He also provides elite strength at the three position, and he's already so young. So while we may be giving up some length relative to a ideal circumstance, we gain a guy who's going to come in and be extremely, extremely strong at the three position. And if he can be a multi-positional defender, he might be able to actually guard up to some fives, especially with all the weak, skinny centers that seem to be, you know, making more and more headway into the NBA as time goes on, he actually might be able to guard up in a real way that is, that is surprising. And on top of the fact that he might be quick enough to also guard down to faster players, too. And while, yes, the offball numbers aren't great for his stats, I take that as he also's

very good on ball and that the potential is already showing for him to be a useful people. piece on defense. So I'm very encouraged by everything he has. And there's no world in which he shouldn't be the pick if he's available. Interesting. Gotcha. Yeah. So I don't feel like you're embellishing too much there. Did you say anything that you really didn't mean? The last sentence was the biggest embellishment. There's definitely a world where he's not the bear. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, I feel like Cam is the likeliest pick if he's on the board there, just as his mix of now side and upside. I like that term, now side and upside. Yeah, it's, uh, I feel like, I just don't, I know we have Bagley on the team, but I don't, part of me just wants to look at

these guys who are going into the best basketball week in the world and say, there's no way any of you are this lacking an offensive vacuum and that you cannot make basic passes off the drive. Like you've got a few seconds to survey the field here. Like, even before you take off in the drive, is there somebody who's going to be open, you know, look out of the corner of your eye, is, is the guy on your strong side leaving his man? to come help on you, which will happen a lot on Whitmore because he's got a great first step. So, you know, what I what I said about my concerns about his processing, it's definitely there. This may sound weird, but it's more on defense than offense.

Again, possibly because of Bagley, possibly because we have a guy on the team where I think that defense requires just a much more serious, just much, much more thought than offense does. There's just a lot more to track. I think it would be good to sticking to guys. It's the question about the coverages. And that's where I think it's more possible for him to be just a straight dumb point. player, just to put it, you know, to put it a little bit crudely. But like you said, he's young.

He was in the top situation of Villanova. Hard to say. I'd take the risk, personally, at number five. Yeah, I think he's probably the pick, and I have him in my top five. So, yeah, this would be a great fit for us, in my opinion. Yeah. He'd probably be the most enjoyable, but this is completely irrelevant. He'd probably be the most enjoyable player to watch at Summer League, too.

He or Amen. Oh, yes. Amongst, amongst the possible picks for the business. Absolutely. Can we won't probably shred people in Summerlee. Next to Wembeyanama, of course, but that goes without saying. Oh, yeah, no, I'm talking in terms of, yeah, in terms of guys who are in the Pistons range. Yeah.

Yeah. That insert joke here about Wemba Nama talking about how he wants to join the great tradition of successful French players in Detroit, and he's going to refuse to sign with any other team. Yeah. Yeah. We've had a lot of success lately. Yes. Yeah, Ciguan, Killian. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not counting out, uh, Killian quite yet.

still have some hopes for him, but I'd still love to find out what happened with Seku. Like, it just doesn't really make any sense to me. I think there's got to be more to the story of why he got dumped and then nobody wanted him. Who knows? I don't buy these stories that he was actually like five years older. But, yeah, maybe we'll hear this story someday because man, was he out of the league fast? All right. And finally, on to Taylor Hendricks at a UCF.

So why do I think that Taylor Hendricks should be the pick for the Pistons? And we did an episode on Taylor Hendricks last week. And my thoughts is that my thoughts rather, not my thoughts is this, my thoughts are that he's a very high floor player who's virtually guaranteed to provide value to the pistons. He's an excellent fit. And fit makes a difference in terms of how much value you're going to provide to any given team for almost any player. There are some players who are going to come in and are truly plug and play. But, and this is speaking conceptually, but the number of truly plug and play players in the league is relatively small like Kevin Durant, guys like that who can just come in and without any, the argument. even with Kevin Durant, you want to give him the ball as much as you can. But basically, Fit is always going to be a consideration of value.

The Pistons really need help on defense. They really need elite floor spacing. And I think Taylor Hendricks could provide both, could provide very high-level defense, maybe not all-defensive level defense, but a very notably strong defender who's in the border that maybe makes an all-defense team or two. And he's going to provide elite spacing as well,

a guy who's got a really pretty shot that's really hard to block, that he's super confident, and he's shot it well, almost equally well, you know, in the low 40s, whether he was guarded or unguarded. And, you know, good all-ball mover, just a really good athlete. He, you know, he's a hard worker. And he could be one of those guys whom, you know, the question right now is his handle and his ability to create. But we certainly do see these guys who come in and end up finding a different gear as a creator. End up, we just end up being able to do things we did not expect him to do,

whether that it's, you know, probably not. It's just like a pull-up shooter. but as guys who just, like Mikalbredges, for example, and just to, you know, to use a prominent example. And this, again, this is a question of can't happen versus is likely to happen. But if you, if Hendricks comes in and he's a guy who can significantly improve upon his handle, which I'd give him a higher likelihood of doing than somebody like Keegan Murray, who is coming in two years later, two years older,

then you've got a potentially very valuable player on both ends. And even if he doesn't, I know the person shouldn't be drafting for four, but you're still getting a player who's going to provide great value to this roster in particular. And if you can guarantee me, Jeremy Grant, I may just say, you know, make him a pick just because the idea of a Hendricks Grant's during front, you know, front court is kind of intoxicating. So that's why I think they should draft Taylor Hendricks. I mean, I think this team is going to get really good value out of him no matter what. And it's not all the question that he has another gear on offense. All right. Time for Price to feel a lot of pain.

Oh, all right. As a noted Taylor Hendricks hater. Oh, yeah, right. He's already got a picture of Taylor Hendricks Photoshopped into a Pistons jersey. Yeah, I honestly should. Now, Taylor, he, don't you see the pick that we're picking at? Yes, all of what you said is true. I can concede every single point that you've said, but this is not the type of talent you draft at five, just plain and simple. This is definitely lottery talent, top 10 talent even,

but he provides next to no ability on the ball. He provides very little in the way of an obvious offensive ceiling razor. And while, yes, we do have good players on the roster, we still don't know the full extent to how good they are. Do we really know if Cade is going to be him? Do we really know if Ivy can turn into a real 23, 24 point a night, five, six assist guy yet, et cetera. Do we really know if Duren is going to figure out the defensive end to the level that we think he can? That's all up in the air. That's part of the

process that we're in right now, even as we are hopefully coming out of it this year. So why would you use a draft pick at five in order to raise your floor? That's what you signed vets for. You signed vets to raise your floor. You draft players to raise your ceiling. Taylor Hendricks is not a great handler of the ball. He actually is pretty bad mechanically at the handle. He has not a lot in the way of mid-range game at all. He's not a great passer of the ball. He's an all right passer, but he makes basic reads and executes them,

and he's not going to be creative. He's not really going to know how to exploit mismatches in the way that you'd like to see for an on-ball creator. doesn't seem to have that same sort of level of processing power that other guys in this range might have. Then we look to the finishing, and there are some concerning numbers around the rim. For a guy who is this athletic and who is this long, there seems to be a real issue with him finishing with his left hand. And that's an exploitable weakness. And what do we know?

NBA teams will exploit weaknesses to their fullest extent because they want to make a lot of money, and they want to play really good to make that money. Then on defense, yes, there are a lot of things to like on defense, but the point is, is that he doesn't necessarily provide the same level of defensive firepower as he'd like. He does block a lot of shots, but there are concerns about his ability to switch, and sometimes his hips get pretty stiff, doesn't seem to always get as low as you would like. and on that front, hey, maybe we could do a little bit better or sign a vet to do that and we draft a player with higher upside. So that's why you should trade back for this player.

You should trade a pick and acquire him some other way. Trade Bojan for an asset to flip into something, but not at five. Hmm. Okay. Is that good? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I mean, I felt I felt kind of like the, you know, the waves of distress emanating off from you. Yeah.

I'm just flooding. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think you brought up the primary concern cited about him as just the upside. You know, the upside on offense. I don't think either of us really have concerns about his ability as a switch defender or anything like that. Like, not perfect as a switch defender, but, you know, the combination of like the length and the, in the latter mobility and the instincts should keep him in good steady. But yeah, it just comes back to the upside. Yeah, I mean, again, we we talked about it.

It's tough to come up with, for me to come up with anything fresh right now because we talked about him so recently. Yeah. But yeah, I know you're a little bit higher on the upside than I am. We agree on the floor. We agree on the defense. We agree on the fit. Yeah, for me, it's just the upside, which would make it just, difficult for me to justify taking him over Cam Whitmore, for example. Or Amen, he's available.

One of those two will be available, obviously. Yeah, mathematically. Or Brandon Miller's available. And then we have an entirely different conversation. Yeah. I think if Brandon Miller is available, it's because somebody is concerned that he was a deliberate accessory to a murder. Right.

And then should we really be drafting him, et cetera, et cetera. Troy wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole in that case, 100-foot pole. 100,000 foot pole. Yeah, that's not what Troy's about as a human, it seems like. But, yeah, I agree in principle that you do want upside. but my thinking is less about what he as an individual player could do for this team and instead think about his ability to fit our team context and what do we really need. We need length, we need athleticism, we need shooting, and that's kind of the big checklist.

He provides all of that. He's very young. He still has room to grow, got to fill out a lot still. And he, I think, ultimately provides the ability to elevate the floor of all of the players around him, even though he's not a playmaker as such. But because I believe really strongly in his gravity as a shooter on volume from three, that that is going to be a key component to the success of the other young. players we have. And again, these types of wings just aren't available. Like OG and Anobi's going to be,

he's going to go for way too much money because these types of players just aren't, they don't come around. And when you get a chance at them, you take them and you're ecstatic because every single team wants more of these guys. And we have not. So he would be number one in your board still? Yeah. Yeah. I'm way too high on him and you should probably take Cam Whitmore or other guys ahead of him. But that's, this is just my guy. It's just my guy. What can I say? Yeah, I'd put him, he'd be number two for me after Whitmore. And obviously, you know, if you're listening, you know, we're talking about guys who are who are going to be available when the Pistons pick. Excuse me. Yeah. Um, so yeah, or just out of the four we're talking about, yeah, out of Asar Hendricks, Whitmore and Walker. Yeah, so he'd be number two for

me after Whitmore, I think. Part of me is like maybe there's something really special there with Asara somehow. And that's kind of been creeping up on me a little bit, you know, that notion that, yeah, maybe there's really just something there. Of course, I also find myself thinking about the probably, you know, the scenario in which things don't go well. And Asara is just a really bumbling of into player who, you know, who's just pretty strong on defense and that's really tough to watch. And then, of course, Walker is not somebody who might want the business to draft. Yeah. And I'm kind of similar. I have Hendricks. over Whitmore by a really narrow margin. And then I think there could be something there with Walker,

where if things come together, development, player development happens, and he puts it together, yeah, this could be a really exciting fit. And we could have a really, really free-flowing offensive system with him as a tertiary option who can also pass the ball in a real way. And then Asar, I just I don't really see a lot there, but I've come around to there being nothing or very little. So that's that's kind of where I'm at. All right. Well, I think this was fun. And just about ready to call it an episode here.

Any closing thoughts? We've just guaranteed Anthony Black or somebody else is going to pick. Yeah. That's going through my head the entire time is like this whole episode will be made irrelevant in eight days. Ed's into, yeah, I, I just couldn't bring myself to, you know, to want to do an episode about Anthony Black, just another, oh, hey, you know, is this guy, he's, you know, he's really smart, he's a good passer, you know, he processes the game at a really high level. And, oh, by the way, you can't shoot. Oh, and also, we need to use them on the ball. You know, those two things are like, I just, I just don't see it. Maybe if the Pistons get a second pick, but maybe not even then. Fair. Yeah. All right, folks. So that'd be it for this episode. Price, thank you once again for joining. No problem. And, as always, I want to thank you folks for listening. Catch you in the next episode.