Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 153: On the Eve of the 2023 NBA Draft

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

This episode recaps recent pre-draft developments (in the context of the organization's wholesale opacity about the draft), offers some mildly informed predictions about draft night, discusses the possibility of trading down, and more! 

Welcome back, everybody you're listening to another episode of Drive into the Basket. I'm Mike, joined once again by Price, and we are, well, will be at the time of this episode being posted about 36 hours away from the 2023 MBA draft. And, yeah, Bryce, we've been through months of this now. How are you feeling? It's almost here. I know you're ready for it to be over. I think we both are. Yeah, I mean, it's been a crawl, but the last week has felt like.

like a sprint at the same time, you know, where it's like, man, I thought we'd have more time to dig into this class, but nope, it's about to happen. It is about to happen. Another thing we've learned, I mean, we've learned this throughout the draft process. We found this out the last couple of years, but it has become abundantly clear this year, like abundantly abundantly, abundantly clear, is that this front office is, when it comes to the draft, opaque to the point of duplicity. like these people are almost like you know evil i don't say evil geniuses uh you know super villains and that they surrender absolutely nothing they might actively be using the beep writers as smokes greens at least one of them suspects that if i remember you know if i if i heard correctly

and i got to say in terms of overall strategy like from an outsider's perspective i'd say okay fantastic. This makes perfect sense to me. Give up absolutely nothing you don't have to. Misdirect as much as you can. Don't let other teams know what you're looking for. Weed them astray, whatever. It makes perfect sense. As a fan, I'm like, you know, two middle fingers. And let's just let's get this over with. I want to see what actually happens. Yeah. I mean, I almost have smoke affixiation at this point from all of the rumors that are being out there like, even pick number two is linked to three separate, four separate players between Scoot Henderson, Brandon Miller, Zion Williamson, Brandon Ingram, like, who knows at this point?

There is so many factors that could be at play, so many theories. I mean, it's fun, but I trust absolutely nothing until I see Adrian Wojnaroski tweeted out. Oh, apparently he's not going to spoil the draft bics. this year he said. But the trade front, the trade front. Oh, on the trade front, gotcha. Yeah.

But yeah, when it comes to the Pistons, I mean, it's kind of funny looking at it. Like, I don't, and this is, this is no offense to any writers. I don't read mocks or I'll read them just to see what, I don't even know how to put it. I'll put it this way. I don't read mocks for my own information, no doubting anybody who does. I just tend to go pretty deep in a draft research. But I've read a couple of them. And like from people who are supposedly, you know,

connected guys like, you know, San Bucini and Jonathan Gibney. And it's basically we don't know actually the undertone. And the undertone you get from, you know, from the Detroit B writers as well is that we don't actually know what the Pistons are planning on doing. This is our best guess. You know, this is entirely possible. But it's clear, my guess is that West News and West Rueh

have come out of the Pistons front office than have come out of probably anybody else in the lottery. And this is reminding me of, you know, for those of you are Red Wings fans, like back in 91, which is long before I was watching hockey, of course. I think that was the draft when Nick Wittstrom came in. They thought very highly of him, but they wanted some other guys. They thought they could get in the first couple rounds, and they thought, okay, we'll get Wittstrom in the third rounds. We feel pretty confident in that.

But they said to everybody in the front office, this is our guy. and if you say one word about him, you're fired immediately. You're done. So it's just reminding me of that a little bit. So in any case, yeah, so honestly, neither we know or anybody else, including the people who, you know, would ostensibly be your best information sources would be the B-writers and the National Insiders seem to have even the faintest clue what the pastons are going to be doing. So it's wait and see. And I didn't want this episode to be completely outdated within 36 hours, but that doesn't really seem to be any. way around that. So let's move ahead. So after all that we have seen and heard for whatever it's

worth price, what is your prediction for if the piston stay at number five tomorrow? What do you think would be the pick? Yeah, at this point, I'd say that I feel like if I had to put it on one guy, it's a Sarr Thompson. I know we see Walker's name come up a lot. He's the betting favorite as of this recording almost 36 hours out from when the pick will be made. I'm sure Vegas. I'm sure Vegas hates the front office at this point. Yeah. Right.

Vegas has the plot. I would hate their guts. Yeah, for sure. No, I think it's a Sarr Thompson because during Weaver's press conference, he had this line about taking a home run. If you only's got one swing, he's going to go for it all. he's not going to settle just for, you know, a bunt or a batted-in single. He wants to really nail this pick.

And I think Asar Thompson represents a confluence of a lot of really intriguing skill, intriguing athleticism with a questionable toolbox. The floor very low. The floor is quite low on offense. For sure. Yeah. The ceiling, two-way ball mover, connective tissue passer, potential shooter, driver of the basket. Yeah, that's a good player and we would love to have him on this team. You feel better about him than you do about Walker. I mean, I still feel a little bit better about Walker's floor than I do about Asar. But I think I'd rather take the gamble on Asar. Like, the the sort of media presence that the twins have is very positive. They seem like they are really good people.

And I know that they are going to just work as hard as humanly possible to maximize their God-given talents. Yeah, the work ethic seems like it's there. Jaros Walker, by all accounts, a pretty hard worker. Of course, you look at him on the court and the extreme aversion to contact doesn't really speak too well about him to me. but leaving that aside. Yeah, I agree that Asar is probably the favorite at this point. If they stay at five, and it's anybody's gases, if they will stay at five. And, like, I would be very surprised if Walker were the pick,

just because I think the offensive fit is putrid. When you have Kate and Ivy, you're going to want to give maximum spacing for, and you have Duren, who's a traditional center, who's not extremely unlikely to be shooting the ball, and you want to give him maximum spacing. and Walker is just even more than Asar in some ways, his offense is more of a question mark at least a little bit to me. So here's what really decides it between Asar and Walker. I mean, the fact that Asar doesn't run away from contact is nice, but the positional versatility and the fact that Walker is very much kind of like a four and a half versus Asar who I think will be able to play three positions, excuse me, three positions.

It has that just overall versatility that is so important in today's NBA and that Walker really doesn't have. And I'm not high in ASR in terms of his four and he has a long way to go on offense. And it would kind of be the lesser of two do not wants, but I would still prefer him over Jaris Walker. Yeah, I'm with you there. I think that although I may be more confident in Walker being a long-term, NBA player, whereas I could really honestly see a SAR flaming out of the league. On the other hand, the potential there of a guy who can guard basically anybody in a switch setting, maybe even some fives, like I think he's going to get strong enough and certainly long and fast enough to

guard down lineups. It's intriguing. And the passing is real with both of them. I actually kind of prefer Asar's passing. He's more of a live dribble passer. Exactly. Whereas Walker, although he's praised as this quick decision maker, he also has a tendency to really surveil in order to make that decision. And I'm less concerned about Asar's ability to pass the ball. I feel much more confident his ability to dribble.

And not to say that he's a great dribbler, but I think there's real, which hope that he might get there, the toolkit is there at least. Yeah. They have some overlapping weaknesses, like in terms of, you could realize we call both them zero level scores at the moment. I mean, Walker could kind of shoot threes. They get a very, very met percentage on low volume. And a SAR, if you want to look at the entirety of his stats, still doesn't look all that

great. And he hit about half of his threes in the season and a four-game hot streak at the end of it. But yeah, I just have a better sense. I just, I'm higher. I have a better feeling about Asar. And in part, like if Walker were this much more agile dude who could easily play down to the three and with whom we didn't have concerns about switchability under guards, then that would be there. And, you know, that would be nice.

And like I said, Assar is just better off the dribble. As a playmaker should be a better player off the move in general, whereas I feel like Walker is really going to be operating from the interior stationary a lot. as a playmaker for others. And Pistons don't need clog next to Durham. They don't need clog next to Ivy and Cade. And, yeah, I mean, that interior playmaking is only going to get you so far. I feel like Walker's passing is being a little bit overblown. Like, there's two things are being conflated.

Like that, yeah, he's a good processor. And he's, you know, he's a talented, connected passer with, he's a really great passer, which I don't agree with. It's more just kind of like a strength rather than a characterizing strength. So, yeah, I just feel better about this. I think it's the distinction between Walker is a good passer for his position in the same way Duren is a good passer for his position with a guy who's legitimately just a great passer regardless of position. Well, I don't know if I'd call a Sark great, but I'd say he's, I'd say he's much, much better as an off-the-dribble passer, which you're going to get a lot more of at the NBA level. And the hope is that Duren's doing that interior passing.

And what I meant is that that's the distinction that's, I think, being falsely made. I'm not saying that Saar is the other side of this distinction. Just that that's just to agree and sort of highlight what you were saying, which is that there's players who I think are, like, regardless of them being big or small are great passers. But then there's guys who are good for. their position, good for the role that they will play. The problem is, is that Walker, I am, I have very big questions about his role on offense, just like how I do with Asar,

but on defense, I think Asar brings another level of switchability that I could really be tempted by. And there's, there's intrigue there. I don't think it's a horrible pick. Yeah. My, like I did at the start of this process. Yeah. I've, I've, softened a little bit, like I said in the last episode. But I mean, for me, it's just, if you look at the prospective good case scenarios, like both of them become shooters, for example, like Walker, I think, is just inherently not. Like, Asar is kind of this guy that maybe he learns it and becomes good at it. I feel like Walker is not a natural shooter. It's never going to be the guy you want to give the ball to and have him shoot on high volume. And that's what Asar has to be kind of to be a worthwhile pick.

and, you know, maybe he'll get there, but just the fit in the good case scenarios, you still have Walker being this guy who, okay, you want to try to get value out of that passing. Okay, he's just going to be operating from the interior in general quite a bit is the feeling that I get. And whereas ASAR is going to be more of a traditional perimeter focused wing who can do more traditional perimeter focused stuff and just strikes me as so much of a better fit in terms of his capabilities of just playing off the move, you know, playing like a true wing rather than a big, you know, on both ends really. but alongside Caden Ivy. And so I just feel better about it. I just feel better about it. I wouldn't be thrilled with the pick, but I would feel better about the pick.

And I would be prepared for Asar to have a rough rookie year if you were the pick. Not for the Pistons in particular, just that it may take some time. But let's talk Cam Whitmore. And the Intel coming out, which is not just coming out of the Pistons or that he's had a series of unimpressive workouts.

And I know we both felt that the IQ is going to be the swing skill. but that's just not, you know, that's not a tremendous insight by any means. That's what anybody, you know, basically anybody would say. So, and I'm not sure if we spoke about this off or on the air, about how the interviews would probably make a pretty significant difference, especially to a team like the Pistons. And if he completely just flunked, basically,

if you wanted interviews with teams in general, or they tested his processing ability, you know, whether in an interview or on the courts, and they really just came away wanting. I mean, that would definitely be a very strong reason for him to fall. Yeah, I agree completely. I think that film is a big component of those interviews. And if they didn't like his answers in the film room,

then that may have indicated some things for them because ultimately, nearly every high-level player in this league plays with some degree of feel, some degree of basketball IQ, if you will. And we don't really have to, have very many mellows who are just not good passers and are stars in the modern NBA. And not to say that every good player needs to be a great pass or a good pass or anything, but Mello is very unique with being just a bucket.

And guys who are just a bucket aren't really that valuable. Unless they're great at it. They've got to be amazing at it. And I think Whitmore does have that potential. It's just that it's that road is more narrow. And I think teams are leaning more towards field players. So if they were unimpressed with the prospect of improving his feel or that the floor is just so low on that regard that it's going to be an uphill battle developing this guy, then maybe some teams are looking the other way. Or there are questions about his level of self-awareness.

I mean, I know that stuff was made about the fact that I didn't see any of these. So I don't even know if I could even I should bother saying this about the interviews in which people asked him what he thought he had to improve upon. And he wasn't saying his playmaking. I'm not just going to go by hearsay. But yeah, that was the chief question about him was his IQ. You know, not only as a passer, not only on offense where, again, it's not just about, hey, we've got guys who on this team who can already pass. So, you know, we don't need Whitmer to do it. Nobody would be asking him to be a playmaker. But can he make the basic read off the pass?

It's all about margins of race within the NBA. you want to get the most effective shot, the most efficient shot on every possession you can. So is he driving in? Can he find the guy one pass away who's wide open? Can he simply pass when it's going to be a bad shot? Can he drive in on one of those driving kicks and driving kick and driving kick at those points that really are so great at wrong foot in the defense? Can he drive in and make the right pass? Or is he just one of these rare guys who absolutely doesn't have that processing ability? And also on defense, it's like his off ball defense was extremely questionable of Villanova. So if teams brought him in and they figured out, they just, they looked at him in this guy, they're like this guy actually has the basketball IQ of a stone by NBA standards. And it does happen. We've seen it.

We see it with Bagley, for example, on defense. Then, you know, raw athletic ability or not, you know, it's upside to the score or not. It's a major downside. Huge downside. And that's the only way I could really see him falling from like the top five to the end of the top 10. I mean, the teams would have had to be really unimpressed with what they found from him. Yeah, I agree completely. It's just a matter of all of these players have warts and which ones people really view as a detriment or view as something that can be worked through.

I think that is what's really going to dictate what happens, maybe even as soon as pick number two. Now to say that Scoot or Miller aren't obviously kind of in a different tier, but there are concerns. scoot with his size, Miller with the character stuff and maybe some of his intensity level aren't exactly what you like to see. And maybe teams at picks two and three, they go a different direction. Who knows? Or they trade it. Not the Hornets, but the Blazers maybe.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really just a matter of, it's going to be a fun draft night. Even if the pistons don't move down at all, I'm going to be interested to see what happens. Yeah, here's a scenario. So we heard last year that the Pistons really liked Dura, and they considered even taking him at number six, that it would have been a possibility

if they hadn't felt like they could pick him up later in the draft. I feel like we shouldn't necessarily rule out the idea that if we, you know, if they really like Taylor Hendricks, for example, and we were told that he had a very strong workout with the Pistons, for what that's worth. You know, players can have strong workouts and not matter whether, in terms of translation of the NBA level or the team actually drafting him, they can also come in and have terrible workouts.

And then team drafts them anyway. That's what happened with Cade, by all accounts. His on-court workout was awful. But they loved him and they loved his interview. And it may have been the opposite with Jaylen Green. It might have been. I don't know. That's entirely speculation.

So it's possible, I wouldn't rule out the possibility, though I think it's unlikely that if they just decide we really like Taylor Hendricks and we can't trade down, then we'd take him at five. And this front office is absolutely capable of throwing out complete curveballs. Yeah. If the trade down to seven or nine or whatever is being rumored isn't actually there, then and Taylor Hendricks is the guy, I could see Weaver just standing there and taking him.

I'm being like, look, you think my words of taking pure upside in this press conference mean anything? Get lost. Like, I'm going to go take my guy. and that's my swing. Yeah. I can see that. It's possible.

I mean, this process with the Pistons picking it number five in this particular draft, I mean, it was a little bit easier last year. Like, you knew that the Pistons were almost undoubtedly. I never, I was never concerned the Pistons were going to take Higin Murray. At least if I recall correctly, I was never genuinely concerned because I just didn't think that they would take a player like him with a relatively low offensive ceiling and not a super translatable skill set. But so I felt like it was obvious that it was either going to be Matherin or Ivy, depending on who was available.

But maybe I'd listen to, you know, last year's podcast and be like, okay, well, my memory is really failing me right now. I feel like it was a lot more straightforward. And then, of course, in 2021, I was virtually certain it was going to be in K'd, just based on what he offered in an all-around context and the fact that the business needed a lead creator. But this year, anything could happen. we are speaking entirely in the realm of speculation because this front office gives nothing away. Like, nothing away. Like, you know, they're definitely playing chess here in a way that a lot of teams don't. And I wonder at their level of operational security must be, people must have been threatened.

Like I said, like with the Red Wings, yeah, if you say anything that we don't tell you to say, you're fired. Yep. We probably know more about Arntellum's lunch choices than we do about the Pistons draft board. No, we could find that out probably pretty easily. Just a little bit of money sprinkled around amongst the staff, you know, assuming that they're eating. You could figure that out pretty simply, yeah. So I'd say that without hesitation. Of course, this is lunch choices out of restaurants are not exactly privileged information, but I don't know, I'm just being silly. So let's talk trade down possibilities here. Of course, this is where. you could go just about anywhere with these. I would be shocked personally to see the Pistons trade down further than number nine. I don't think they want, unless there's somebody they really love who they think

they're very confident is going to be available in the teens. I don't see them trading down further than that. But there's also the factor that like the Pistons have so many young players in the team already. Do they really want more young players in this team? Do they really want to trade for like two other first in the second round somehow? And I think the answer is no. I question that they'll even keep number three. 31. So I think that that'll play a play, you know, play a part in potential trade-down scenarios.

But the one that's being brought up most consistently, and I don't remember if Woj brought this up or not. I have just seen it floating around. So let's talk about it, just for speculation purposes or whatever, which should be a trade with Utah for number six, actually to be number nine and number 16. What would you think about that? I'm sure you'd love it if Hendricks are available at number nine. That's it. This is a no loose scenario for you. Yeah, I mean, that is that is the absolute dream where, we get to get the guy I want at five anyways, who by all counts really impressed with his showing, and we get an extra mid-first.

Maybe we do something with 31, because I do agree with James Edwards' notion, the Pistons Beat Rider, that three rookies seems like a lot right now with how young this team still is, and with how much they have to improve, and they are presumably going to bring in some vet of some variety in free agency. So they want to improve. Three rookies doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot of improvement. You don't really expect a lot from them. You want reps too.

You want to get reps for your young players, and there are a lot of moments email already. Yeah. Yeah. When you look at, you know, Cade and Ivy, you know, they still want to be getting reps for. for just purely for development's purpose, developing purposes,

excuse me, for Isaiah Stewart and Killian Hayes, even who are going into their fourth seasons, probably the third season for Killian, for Isaiah Livers and certainly James Wiseman, and though I think he's the likeliest to fall out of the rotation altogether, Marvin Bagley and Duren, and that the falling out of the rotation was Bagley,

not Duren, of course, Duren is probably that, by all accounts the player, the young player that the front office is high, down outside of Caden Ivy. Correct. Yeah. So it's like you've got all these young players.

You're going to be adding one more in the top 10, almost certainly. Like, how do you find minutes last year? They tried to get rid of the second round pick because, you know, because presumably and from from what came out about it, either they didn't want to add another standard NBA contract with the draft or they just didn't want to bring over another young player. They couldn't move it. So they ended up taking a guy who could be stashed. So you just kind of reached this break point where it's like how, and I think I forgot to mention

livers in that group. I'm not sure. Yeah, you listed pretty much the whole team. Yeah. So it's like, how do you find, realistically find reps for all these guys? How do you find minutes for them? And I'm not a huge fan of the, you know, the philosophy of how do you just send them down to the G week because the G league is very, very, the G league is a high talent league.

It is not a, what I would call a persistent league or a. a standard league. The G League is full of, in the G League, you're either a player who, you're one of three categories of players. You are under contract to an NBA team and they want to put special focus on developing you and they tell the coaches that. You are a player who is playing for a relatively low salary because you want to try to attract NBA notice or you're a guy a team has brought on just to kind of fill a spot in the roster. These are not kind of like teams, this is not a league in which you have these teams that are consistently trying to win a championship every year. Nobody tries to make a career in the G-League. It's just not that lucrative.

So even with Proceda, it's like keep him in a EuroLeague. I mean, I'd be shocked if you were brought over this year, but even if you have to choose between the G-League and the EuroLeague, keep them in the Euroleague. So yeah, the minutes just are not there. Yeah, no. There isn't a lot of continuity either. Players begin the year. the year and the one team end up across the country by the end of the year. They're called up and down on 10-day contracts as injuries roll in, that sort of thing. It's just not very realistic to develop players in that league.

I mean, it's fine for like the ignite. It seems that we are going to get some good players we have already and we're going to continue to do so that come out of that. But it's a very unique situation where there's a lot more. continuity. The players are kind of protected from the forces of the rest of the G-League, and they're kind of allowed to play a more developmental style, and that's just not how it is for the other G-League teams. Yeah. So it's, unless you could guarantee a guy is going to really get a lot of playing time somewhere, just it's almost better just to sort of let's

sleeping dogs lie. If we get 16 in that trade-down scenario, move 30. 31 future second or multiple future seconds because it is a desirable one, maybe even a first, like a late protected first or something. I mean, there is a contract difference that does emerge there at pick 31 rather than pick 29, say. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Pick flex, but second round contracts is for those of you who are not as, or maybe not entirely, I don't know why I put in this.

I'll just not preface this. So if you're taking on the first rounds, you have two years of guaranteed money. Every first round contract has two guaranteed years and then two team options. And that's just how it is, period. You know, that's written into the CBA. You have to do it that way.

If you're a second round pick, the team has complete flexibility on what contract they would like to sign you to. So they can sign you to, I mean, you have to, players have to agree to the contract, of course. But there are really no stipulations there. I think you can sign a player at pick 30 to, excuse me, pick 31 to a contract that has one guaranteed year, you know, one partially guaranteed year and one non-guaranteed year.

You just have more. And then the salary can start at the minimum versus it being significantly higher usually in the first rounds. I don't know how much pick 30 is. But yeah, I'd be shocked if you get under the first rounder out of it just because that's a lot of flexibility. This is just an opportunity cost. And teams generally don't want to leave those protected more than one season in the

future. and then you're risking getting nothing at all. Yep. Or it just transfers the seconds. You know, that's a possibility. But I agree. He's 31 to get a player, like an actual NBA player. That's an interesting possibility as well.

I'm not sure where you'd find that breakpoint, though, in terms of finding a player who's actually worthwhile to a team where the Pistons are right now. But who knows, maybe a point guard who can really push Killian at the same time. We're going to find minutes for this player also. But it's possibility. I agree. I think I'm agreeing with you.

I'd be shocked. if the business came out of this draft of more than two players, more than two young players. Yeah, so I think it's just, there's a lot of different rabbit holes we can go down, but if they do acquire like pick 16, again, I'd be pretty excited just because there's still going to be good, interesting players in that range. It's just that the gap between 16 and 31 really isn't that big. Really? You don't think so. In my opinion, no, no, it's, you get a better choice. and there's going to be more of the high upside guys that you'll have to choose from.

But I think you're still going to get an interesting potential NBA player at Pick 31 that isn't going to be significantly lower in talent level at least than most of the guys available at 16. I mean, maybe if Grady Dick slips that far, then, hey, you know, that's a slam dunk pick right there. but I don't want to deal with all the dick jokes. I know. Not for like the next however many years. Grown. Just grown.

Yeah, I've made my share of them. And I could probably rattle off like five or six without even thinking about it just because it's such low hanging fruit. It's so easy. Don't say low hanging fruit. Okay, well, yeah, we just have to play them. We just have to, this would basically necessitate the pistons at signing with Angela Ball so that they can play. So, yeah, you guys, I'm sure anybody who's listening to this can, can finish that one up themselves. So, yeah, ideally two of the Bull Brothers.

You know, we'll just, so you see, this is, these jokes will be made constantly, like, constantly, constantly, constantly. And it's like, I'm, I'm just like, they're, they're kind of funny, but I don't, I'm not, just not very interested in Grady Dick for other reasons as well. Yeah, it's, uh, yeah, like, even if, even if he falls to 16. and as the dick jokes have nothing to do with it, I don't think it'd be super interested in Grady. I just don't think he's really what this team is looking for. And I think that he's a player who may have less value than he might think because, I mean, the standard of athleticism in this league

is just growing at such an incredibly rapid pace. And again, margins are so thin that I got like Luke Kinnard, who isn't necessarily slow. He doesn't have a good wingspan, not that is Grady Dick, but he's basically just, despite being by percentage, the best three-point shooter in the league this year did not even play in the postseason.

Yeah. Yeah, it's like, yeah, those guys, who knows? Right. I'm in agreement. I'm not a huge Grady fan. I'll say that. Good. Because.

Good. Great. I'm glad you put it that way. You know, you know. Awesome. Oh, man. I feel like I'm eight years old again. It would just be, it would be constant.

It wouldn't actually bother me that much. but I think, yeah, I don't think we have to worry about it. I think he's going to play in the league for sure, but limitations are definitely there. One-dimensional, just-a-shooter types are not super compelling. And, yeah, that's not the gamble I would make, but if we're getting, say, nine and we get to make a upside swing, there's some really high upside players that are potentially there at 16 still. Yeah, you think probably, I would be shocked if we didn't see probably, yeah, probably a wing, a guy in a shooting guard small forward range, just based on, based on team needs,

I would be quite surprised if they, well, should I be surprised if they were to take on another big? I think they wouldn't just because there would be not even the faintest possibility of that player getting any minutes. Yeah, I mean, I have, we already are drowning in minutes at the big position. It's just, yeah, there's upside wings for sure. One of the guys that got mentioned today actually was Jalen Hood-Shafino. And I should preface, it wasn't at 9, it was at 16, which is about the range that he's projected to go. This is a guy who is, has his limitations, I should say, which is basically any offball offense at all is pretty much non-existent at this point.

But good athlete plus wingspan. He's 6'4, 610. The problem is, of course, that there is no off ball game right now. But his on-ball game is actually pretty good. He's got a good handle. kind of in that Johnny Davis mold which is not the best mold to be in that's a great

that's a comp you really want made I wouldn't count the guy out just yet but I thought he was an awful pick when he was just an awful pick at the time yeah bad situation for him to go to on top of it just yeah I mean Washington's a mess which we all all know

they finally they finally kind of pulled the trigger on a rebuild which nobody thought was going to happen anytime soon. They are the Pistons, I believe. They have a star that they did not maximize trade value for. They've clung on desperately to a semblance of a semblance of a chance that didn't even really exist. They have a confused owner. They haven't had any postseason success and God knows how long, even longer than the Pistons. Oh, goodness.

They made the second round back in 2015. I think they made it since then once. Yeah, no NBA titles or no NBA files appearances since they were the bullets, I want to say. Just they're a mess. Anyways, Jalen Hood-Shafino, that's a guy who was brought up. I see the appeal, which is that if we go for a more off-ball guy, like Hendricks at 9, then hey, you know, we can kind of double-dip and get an intriguing creator who actually has real defense. defensive potential too. I kind of like him a little bit more than Bryce Sensible to bring up another name for Pistons fans and an Ohio State guy. He scored the ball

like a lot but played approximately no defense and might be the worst defender in the entire first round. So that's a little less appealing. Like we can talk about the minutia of Jaris Walker's defensive shortcomings, but he's still going to defend. He's going to be a good defender. Yeah, but Bryce Sonsabwe is never going to be a good defender. And then we have guys like Derek Whitehead. Derek was actually rated extremely high before the season. However, he is coming off a lot of injuries right now.

Shoots well, really young, good athlete, at least. before the injuries, but this is the second surgery. He missed the entire pre-draft process, if you will, didn't participate in any sort of athletic testing and has not worked out for teams other than going and visiting. So there's three names already of high-upside players. Bryce Sonsapaw might be one of the best pure offensive players in the entire class, but is a dramatic weakness on defense. Jalen Hood-Shafino, no off-ball game at all. Derek Whitehead, huge injury risk.

All of these guys would be available in the 16 range. All of them have skill, have talent, but it's very raw, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Derek Whitehead slide down to 31, because of the injury concern. You see where I was kind of going with the gap, really isn't that big? In this particular draft, you mean? In this particular draft.

Okay. In other drafts, it usually is a little bigger. Yeah. But outside of the lottery, it's really close, in my opinion. Interesting. Yeah. What about somebody like Grady Dick? No, I'm just kidding.

So, yeah, so it is a scenario. It's just the pistons have a number of factors that, were not considerations last year. That'll, of course, go into anything like having both Kate and Ivy and Ivy having had the season that he had, having J. Jaywin-Durin on the team and J-Windurin having the potential that he has, having so many young players on the team, not being in a position anymore by all accounts in which they just are willing to go out there and completely shell winning at the cost of development. I don't get me wrong, I think development is still going to be the priority next season. The difference is more that, you know, we're not going to go and let players just play and be whole. horrible and still get minutes. I mean, Killian Hayes might find himself out of the rotation by

two-thirds of the way or even half of the way through next season if he's horrible and somebody else in the team is doing a better job. Like Killian got a lot of leeway the last two years, despite being one of the worst players in the league. And I think that is going to go away. That sort of thing is going to go away. But still, you're going to want to get minutes until your young players. And yeah, so, I mean, they just have, they have considerations they didn't have last year. So it'll be interesting. I think what this just all comes back to is it'll be interesting and nobody has even the faintest idea of what there's no certainty of any kind as to what the pistons, you can't even put, you can put a certain amount of likelihood on it, but that's about it.

One thing, here's a question to ask, what would be a satisfactory outcome for you? Like, what, I know, you could just say Taylor Hendricks. Okay, that's a little bit too easy. What would be the bare minimum You would be satisfied with coming out of tomorrow's draft. I come out of, well, we'll be tomorrow we post this, but coming out of Thursday's draft. Yep. You know, I, it's weird because I don't really have a lot of expectations. I kind of know the guys, if you will, that are in that top nine. So unless we trade out completely and completely blow the doors wide open and,

get a player of real substance for a high lotto pick like pick five i think it's just pick somewhere in that top nine and see what else you can you can get with either a bow yon trade or moving 31 for something moving up moving out of 31 entirely i don't know what do you think that that to me i think would be satisfactory like a c grade or a b grade i don't know how what curve we're grading on, just, I would be like, that is fine. Even if it's Jarus Walker, sure, whatever, I believe in the talent level enough of him versus the rest of the class to still say that that is an appropriate range, even though I have a lot of your concerns. Yeah, I'd like to see them come away with at least one player you can look at and say, I think this player is going to be

a substantial part of the team's future, or has the capacity to be a very substantial part of this team's future. You know, if it's Jarris Walker, you hope for the best. You know, yeah, I've got some, I'm increasingly feeling some FOMO about Taylor Hendricks. Of course, if this were a stronger draft, I wouldn't be feeling that sort of FOMO, but from where the Pistons are picking. I don't think it's necessarily a little likely that they walk away from him, especially in a trade down. What would that trade down look like? You know, you'd have to be pretty confident that the Pacer's taking somebody else. But if he gets past the Pacers, you know, I think I doubt would be shocked if the Wizards would take him.

And, you know, there you probably think he'd be available at number nine. If you trade down that way, I'd be surprised at Boy, Amor traded, both because I just think that the, I think that the, just in terms of what he provides in the way of just an offensive release valve and elite spacer. He's a safety valve. Yeah, he's a safety valve for a very young team. And so just in terms of what he provides is just kind of like a true three-level score and a guy who, yeah, is a release valid for what remains a very young team and is just a strong veteran presence. You know, those three things.

I think that he'll be maintained on the team unless they get a very good offer. I don't think that offer will be forthcoming for the Mavericks. Yeah, I've seen a lot of speculation about this. The Mavericks are a team that was a top 10 defense last season throughout the entire season. They got a little bit better on defense when Kyrie got there. they got a whole lot worse on offense. Offense is where they lost. Luca openly complained about the offense.

You know, we can't play defense. Excuse me, openly complained about the defense. He says, we just can't defend. Yeah. I'd be shocked if they decided to make themselves better on offense and even worse on defense. That is just basically reinforcing your places you, just reinforcing an area you don't need to get stronger in while further weakening an area in which you are already desperately weak. And it's not that Bowion wouldn't be a good fit with Luca. it's just that they have bigger needs.

And this pick 10 is probably the only asset that they have that could reasonably acquire defensive help. So unless there is some type of three-team trade, this just isn't happening. Yeah, I'd be shocked. I mean, it just doesn't do anything for them. I think a three-team trade is possible. I suppose it's conceivable,

But even then, I mean, Boyon just isn't worth quite that much to a postseason team because like on a good team, he's going to be like the probably the third option. So he's not going to have the same offensive load he had with the pistons. And also so his offensive value will be lessened. And his defense is a big problem in the postseason. So just it's just a poor value equation there. I think he's worth more than the pistons than he is to most to most teams. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to really conceive of a trade where we're getting fair value back while also the team is really significantly benefiting that's acquiring Boyon because he's just not a good defensive player whatsoever.

And it's it's tough to play those guys when rotations get shortened and mismatches are hunted ruthlessly in the playoffs. Yeah, for sure. And it's, yeah, that's a pipe dream. I would be shocked if that happens. I mean, an absolute fleece, if that happens. But I think it's more like that construction of a trade idea got out, but probably it would require a lot more to it to actually get that deal done, which is why I would think it would have to be a three-team trade just by,

virtue of the fact that mavericks the mavericks aren't getting enough yeah i i mean my three rules that i feel like should be taken into accounts whatever maybe that sounds a little pompous here are three rules that i think are good to use when evaluating any trade uh if the trade is a slam dunk for your team it is probably a bad trade for the other team because rarely our trade slam dunks for both teams uh the other team will not be trading its valuable piece to you for your teams disposable parts and any trade i mean the rationale for both teams in any given trade should be apparent immediately not require any rationalization whatsoever you know or a real explanation yeah exactly yeah i feel like this one it kind of at the very least violates number one and number

three i mean it's a slam dunk trade for the pistons that's certainly not for the mavericks number three i mean what's the rationalization there i mean if you have to stop and think about why with the mavericks through this trade. Oh, well, they get more scoring help. And it's like, but they're already a good offensive team and they suck on defense. And Boyon's a bad defender. So what are they getting? And they're losing number 10. Picks are all or sorry, teams always are capable of making poor decisions. Yeah. That violate all of that, those principles. Yeah. But I, I don't, you don't count on that happening. You have to just sort of wait to see where the team is at. And we only find that out,

really after everything plays out and we close the curtains. So, yeah, I don't know. I think just picking in the top nine is obviously Wembe would be ideal, but we can dream. What would be a night for you that would exceed expectations? Maybe if the Pistons walk, I mean, honestly, I mean, the possibility of getting somebody like, like a sara,

who I think still has a fair amount of potential. And again, I wouldn't be super upset with him. The idea of getting like two of the guys who would be distensibly in the Pistons list, you know, on those top four, even if one of them is, you know, one of them is Whitmore, I think is very, very unlikely. Yeah.

You know, if they come away with, say, I don't even know. I mean, I just don't, I would be sad if the Pistons came away with Jarris Walker as their primary piece. and so I'd feel kind of okay if it were anybody else at this point which sounds which is completely it sounds completely ridiculous even to my ears but if it's coming down to between the four of them that's like Walker I think is the only outcome that I would be likely to be disappointed by

like outright disappointed by I also don't think it's likely so I think I'll feel okay I just feel like a Sart Thompson is likely as to be the pick of course we're dealing with the front office that is completely and utterly non forthcoming with its intent in any capacity whatsoever. So any closing thoughts? I think that it'll be fine even if it's Walker. It's just we have to remember that or I should say it'll be fine if it isn't your guy. And I'm speaking just generally.

It'll be okay because we have potentially star number one and star number two and maybe even high-level starter, potential star number three on the roster. And that's kind of the foundation you want coming out of a rebuild. So all of this is just to sort of help keep filling in the dots, so to speak. And there are plenty of talented players throughout this draft that can help do that. and as long as we're getting one guy out of this class that does that, then it's mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned. Interesting.

Yeah, I'm not sure how. I have to give some thought of us out or respond to that. That's in part because it's been a very, very long day. I'm recording this at 1145, but yeah, it'll be interesting. That's all I'll say. Anyway, all right, folks, that'll be it for this episode. one of course will be after the draft and until then let's suppose all hope for the best on draft nights catch you in the next episode.