Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 189: Comparing Rebuilds - Detroit, Houston, Orlando, and OKC

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

This episode discusses the recent injury news before launching into a comprehensive comparison between the rebuilds (so far) of the Pistons, Magic, Thunder, and Rockets.

Welcome back, everybody. You're listening to another episode of Driving to the Basket. I'm Mike, and as always hope you're all doing super, super well today. Coming off the tales here of another loss, this one of the Indiana Pacers from a really depleted Pistons roster. Of course, the big news of today is number one of Sart Thompson. I'll for the rest of the season with a blood clot. That is scary stuff. I'm just going to leave it to the experts to explain what the implications of blood clots are. it depends on, as I understand it, what the nature of them is. But I would imagine we probably won't hear about that for a little while. So it's up in the air.

Either way, of course, wishing us are the best possible recovery. And we also heard that Isaiah Stewart is going to be out for the rest of the season with a strain to hamstring. That's not a very severe injury. I think it's just kind of a matter of no reason to rush him back. And also, draft positioning does matter. I hate to put it that way, but draft positioning, again, does matter. Pistons are right at the bottom with the Wizards.

And yeah, the Pistons were the worst team in the league last season, and they got pick five. They were the second of worst team in the league two seasons ago, and they got pick five. It basically, it doesn't guarantee you, obviously, like a higher pick being the worst team in the league, but it means that you can't fall further. It would have been worse for the Pistons if they'd fall into six last season, for example. So at least insulates you against an even worse outcome. You know, being 30th at this point, with the season pretty much definitively lost, the Pistons, well, the season's been definitively lost for a while, but at this point, I mean, the Pistons can't even realistically hope to, like, end the season strong or anything like that, and we'll see what happens in the off season. There'll be plenty of time to talk about that and how many of these players should stick around from a team that has done so poorly, but there's something I want to yet again put a caveat on that.

Yes, this team has been incredibly bad this season. And it reached a low, it never achieved before by any team in the history of the league and 28 straight losses. And it did so while it was trying to win, which is nearly inconceivable. And yeah, it's probably going to finish the worst win total in the history of the Detroit Pistons organization, which I believe 16 is the worst right now. So one worse than the Pistons managed last season. Of course, they hard tanked the last quarter of last season. You guys all remember, I'm sure, the James Bliseman Marvin Bucson. Bagley lineups and Wiseman and Killian for the last like six weeks for the second and third

leading scores for the Pistons should tell you about how awful that roster was. But yeah, it's entirely possible to Pistons to win the season with only 15 wins. Who knows, they play some bad teams, but they're going to want to lose, you know, they're going to want to lose those games. Who knows how low they'll go in an effort to lose those games. But at this point, I mean, you need every bit of help you can get. But I digress. Basically, you can't. You can't. I don't think you can make an evaluation of this roster and just say, look at this roster. It lost 28 straight games, and it is going to finish with very few wins. It's just a disaster.

It did worse than the last season's roster. I think this should be contextualized by last season's roster. Dwayne Casey, you know, I've said I'm not going to talk about him in length. I'll just say I think that he was a very below average on-court coach. Great locker room guy. Players liked him. Good for development by most indications. I don't think it was great for it and how he used his players in the court,

but seemed to be pretty good at it, and took a roster last season that was significantly worse than this season's roster, and coached it to 17 wins despite that last six-week hard tank. And, of course, 17 wins is not a successful season by any means business with the worst team in the league. But then you have Monty Williams, the Grim Reaper of NBA coaches,

who has taken a significantly better roster and done drastically worse things with it. Don't get me wrong, this roster is inadequate. You've heard me talk about it quite a bit, had the front office did a very poor job of building this roster. But this is not a historically bad roster. This is just an inadequate roster that I think could have been coached to 25 to 30 wins by a competent coach or by a good coach. Yeah, maybe you get a genuinely good coach. I don't think 30 wins would have been outside the realm of possibility. Unfortunately, you have one of the worst

coaches the NBA has seen in decades. A guy who, you know, by all reasonable standards, an NBA coach should not be able to be this bad at his job. It has been a complete disaster. So, you know, Yeah, the roster has issues, no doubt about it. Weaver and Company have done a poor job. I mean, there's definitely been some serious mismanagement there. But this is just like an inadequate roster. This is not a horrifically bad roster. This is an inadequate roster, which unfortunately, thanks to the owner,

whom, by the way, I'm feeling increasingly sure, really promised Monty Williams as a condition of getting him to be coach here, in addition to the enormous bags of guaranteed money he gave the guy that he would have tremendous latitude and possibly free, you know, and basically freedom from the front office in terms of how he wanted to coach, because I think that the prospect of this front office or any front office, which is trying to win standing by and doing nothing, while the coach malpractices his way to 28 straight losses,

under normal circumstances, I just don't think that's going to happen. I think that somebody is going to intervene and say, you are doing things that are genuinely insane and you have to stop doing it right now. and the average front office does have that latitude. And I've kind of revisited what we heard, like the language around, even the stuff around Ivy, which seems to be the only capacity in which the front office has actually been able to modify what Monty Williams is doing short of just getting rid of the players he likes who are terrible, like Isaiah Livers or Killian Hayes. And we heard shortly after Jaden Ivy abruptly overnight ended up back in the starting lineup

after being in Monty's doghouse for the entire season up to that point. We saw in that completely incoherent press conference that Tom Gores held. He mentioned he's been talking to Moni about rotations. Okay, maybe that was, you know, just a, maybe that wasn't true and he just wanted to give lip service. But possible it is true. If that is true, then probably it was Gores who do that, who did that rather. Then we heard later on the big organizational meeting, as it had, you know, at which it was pointed out, quote, unquote, that, that Monty had not been using Ivy as a handler. and which Monty played dumb and said, oh, you know, that's on me.

I guess I just didn't think of it. Yeah, which should have been probably was bullied by nobody. Entirely possible that Tom Goraz was at that big organizational meeting. So I would not be surprised at all if Tom, who is a huge problem for this team, who is just, I'm not telling you anything you know. I mean, I would imagine some of you disagree with me about this, but I feel pretty strongly about it. So we'll put it that way. That Tom at this point, I think, is the worst owner in the NBA, free and clear,

and one of the worst owners in North American professional sports. He is, I mean, he hires incompetent personnel. He maintains cronies and positions of power. And he cannot keep his diseased fingers out of team operations, even though whenever he has intervened, it is almost invariably come to harm. And I think, I'll reiterate, I think the guy really wants to see the team succeed, and he's willing to pay whatever it takes. Unfortunately, there's this deadly caveat.

If I want to see the team succeed, but only if I can involve myself in that success. It doesn't work that way. He's been absolutely horrible at his job. I mean, he's been absolutely terrible as a team owner. You know, give the guy credit again. He will spend whatever it takes, and he's clearly very enthusiastic. Went out and bought a G-League team, you know, built that big performance center. And, you know, I think if the Pistons were a good team, he'd spend into the luxury tax quite a bit.

Unfortunately, he is just incredibly incompetent in how, whatever. I mean, let's remember that this is the guy who took nine Cs. to okay or rebuild even in the first place. It's just a nightmare. So just going back to the original point, though. Yeah, this season has been terrible. Without a doubt, for me, it's been the worst sports season I've ever sat through. I don't want to say sat through.

I mean, that's not really, I mean, I guess that's what all of us are doing, assuming that we're not getting up and running around during games. But, yeah, it's the worst sports season I've ever experienced, like, by a long shot. I've mentioned 2016, 2017 as being my previous low in terms of just frustration in sports seasons. And, you know what, at least the piss instead of solid first. 20 games in that season. You know, there was that at least before the frustration began. And Van Gundy was bad, but not this bad.

And my goodness, this season has just been a colossal and just absolutely awful. It's been so hard. I'm sure as hard for many of you as it has been for me. And if you're still watching at this stage of the season, you know, particularly after, the news we got today, then kudos to you. You're a very loyal fan. It's basically, it is, in my opinion, in my opinion, and very, very difficult to find joy in this team right now and joy in this organization.

But, you know, that's just how it is sometimes. And I suppose we all do our best to soldier through the difficult time so we can enjoy the good times. So, yes, to finally circle back, yeah, the roster has issues. There's no doubt about that. You know, it is inadequate in many areas. The youth are arguably mismatched. And there's just, there are a lot of issues with the roster. but I think that again with a good coach I think you're looking at 25 to 30 wins this season and that's probably still quite disappointing by comparison to the other teams you know the other the other three of the bad four so to speak between the pistons were in the upper echelons in the 2021 draft and be Orlando and Oklahoma City and Houston and that's actually going to be the subject of this episode as comparing those rebuilds so it would be disappointing perhaps in the context of

those teams, you know, especially with Houston, really surging at this point. They've won six in a row and eight of their last 10. Now, granted, they have, they've been without Schengun and the last four, and they played three really bad teams, and the Spurs and then the Wizards twice, but they did win all four. So in any event, it would be disappointing relative to that, especially if it were close to 25 rather than 30. It would be still progress. 30 would be significant progress. but what the Pistons ultimately got was just an unprecedented display of a coach being just mind-bogglingly dumbfoundingly destructive to the team he was coaching. Like unprecedented. And so, yeah, it's been a horrible season.

I think it's just, I think that should be kept in mind when we look at the roster as a whole in terms of how it's going to look going forward. though, of course, Monty Williams, unless he decides, you know, it's possible that the guy just suffered severe cognitive decline in the offseason, but I doubt it. So I think it's a matter of deciding for him that he actually wants to coach the right way or something, or the book being slammed on him if Tom Gores did offer him that absolute latitude, though I'm not sure. I think it might take several more years yet before Mr. Gores is actually going to admit to himself that the money hire was a big mistake. But, yeah, if we got this season as Monty Williams next season, This is the hardest thing for me.

It's been one of the hardest things for me this season, just in general, just like it was with Van Gundy in the last his final two seasons, just knowing that every game I'm going to tune in and watch the coach completely undercut his team in ways that are incredibly obvious and incredibly easily avoidable. So that was hard with Van Gundy in those seasons. It's been incredibly hard for me and with Monty in this season. And the hardest thing for me going forward is not where the roster stands. Honestly, though, that's an issue.

That's a big issue. the hardest thing for me is knowing that Monty may be around next season to continue destroying his team's performance in the way that he did this season. And I can't imagine that what he did this season and the lows he took this team to did not have some sort of deleterious impact on developments. Because just imagine being a young player and going through this. So that's what makes for me optimism about this the most difficult, both in terms of what I think the team may be able to accomplish

and just my own enjoyment watching the games. It's just, you know, with Monty at the helm, I mean, even exclusive of me, I mean, nothing in sports tells me like bad coaching. Nothing in sports bothers me like that. And the Pistons have gotten some of the worst of it. I've actually the worst NBA coaching I've ever seen. But just in terms of if they get this Monty again,

what's realistically going to be possible next season? who knows, all we can do is hope for the best. I'm not trying to be Mr. Doom and Gloom here. It's just something that's on my mind. But, yeah, that was just my point in general. Just when it comes to thinking about the roster, there's got to consider other factors, or I think the primary factor on why this season was a complete

and utter grueling abject disaster rather than just maybe a little bit disappointing and why the roster looked as bad as it did rather than just very inadequate. It's not super hard to win 25 to 30. games in the NBA with a pretty inadequate roster if you're trying. It's just you don't see many teams in that range these days because they'd rather be, you know, if they're rebuilding, they'd rather be bad. And if they're trying, they're likely to be better than 25 to 30 wins.

All right. So let's move on to the subject of the episode. And a listener submitted this some months ago. But at the time, I thought it was, I just wanted to be able to dedicate an entire episode to it. Actually took quite a bit of research. not difficult research but research getting this all down so uh it's i was asked to do a comparison of the rebuilds between the pistons the rockets the thunder and the magic and these were really the the the bad four so to speak like the the super rebuilders right at one right around where the uh the rebuild began for the pistons and for the pistons really began i mean they began earlier it became it began for them right around the end of 2019

And that was really signaled by the willingness to trade Drummond's, ultimately traded for peanuts just to get them off the books and presumably off the roster. Whatever, I'm not going to get into that. I'll stick to my promise here and not talk about Drummond. So, and honestly, I don't like talking about Drummond. Sometimes I just like laying into the guy because I still have kind of like residual irritation and resentment for how we play with the pistons. But, you know, that's long past. though contrary to what I said in the last episode I mean watching Jalen Duren against the heat

last week which I think was the day after I posted that episode my goodness that that looked bad he seemingly could not have cared less about defense in that game oh boy his guidance from his coach have anything to do with that or lack of accountability because there is no accountability unless your name is Jaden Ivy and the coach dislikes you we'll see you know when it came to the other guy

van Gundy treating him like a king certainly didn't help things, I would imagine. Okay. So, yeah, when it came to the 2021 draft and then the year after that, these are really the, these are the bottom four teams, aside from Toronto. Toronto was there in 2021, but that was kind of a fluke. They had made the conference finals the season before. They would make the conference semifinals the season after. They just spent that one year in the middle at the bottom because of injuries and ended up with the fourth overall pick. They jumped in the lottery, I think from number eights, whatever, they jumped in the lottery. It ended up taking Scotty Barnes at the number four. And my goodness, what am I forgetting? Yeah, the cavaliers were down

there too, but they really didn't spend very long down there. They were out of there by 2020. So these have been the rebuilders. The Thunder, of course, are really in really good shape this season. But yeah, these, these, but the teams who were roughly where the Pistons were in 2021. So going to go over a variety of factors here. They're going to talk starting assets first. Of course, that's going to that's going to make a difference in terms of how the rebuild is going to start. It's good to start with more juice, obviously, more players to trade, more assets, parley. Lottery luck, of course, is a thing, too. That's not in anybody's control. Drafting, obviously, going to be a big thing.

Overall management outside of drafting, that's going to be a big thing. The personnel whom they've hired in development, and then finally where they stand right now. And I was going to do like this as like a total grade out of, you know, 25 or 20 or 30, just a bunch of ones out of fives and excuse me one to five out of fives and uh but that was that was going to get a little complicated how was i going to put starting assets in there because that's that's of course going to inform a lot more so i'll just start with the pistons just to contextualize things so let's talk starting assets here just for overall context and overall context should also include you know what the teams did the season before donner made the playoffs rockets made the playoffs magic made the playoffs

and the Pistons, of course, did not. But making the playoffs doesn't necessarily set you up better. Well, actually, the Pistons did where they didn't get a head start was in having assets to parley. And if you're a playoff team, you generally have assets, you can trade away. Where the Pistons did start up better is that they were the only one of these teams of the top 10 pick. The Rockets didn't go into the draft with any pick.

The Magic, I believe, at number 15. The Thunder had to trade up to get number 17. And the Pistons, of course, owned number seven, which they used to select a superstar whose name, you know, I was going to joke about Tyree's Hell written there. Okay. So, starting assets. For the Pistons, Pistons definitely started off the worst out of the four of them. No extra future first. And we're talking, you know, before the draft here, no extra future first. They did own all their first round picks. And I'm not going to get into second round picks in this evaluation. That would have taken me like a day to research where all these

second round picks went in terms of, in terms of trades and who had wet, excuse me, they get traded around like candy. So just in terms of firsts and players, the Pistons had all their future firsts. They did not have any extra future firsts. They really had basically nobody on the roster who was going to get a significant return. And yeah, so that's where they stood. I mean, guys, they traded away like Bruce Brown, for example. Or like, um, Yeah, Derek Rose. And like Luke Canar was the best, was the most tradable asset in the team. So we'll include him as basically the player, the only guy with value.

And then we'll move up the scale here. The Magic also owned all their picks, did not have any future firsts, did not owe any future firsts. They did have Nicola Vuccivic, which would turn out to be a pretty darn big deal for them. He was a player who I think had made, I don't remember if he'd made the All-Star game this season before, but he did in 2018, 2019. And then moving up, the Rockets. So this is actually going to alter the rules a little bit because they actually started off the season wanting to win, which does change things a little bit. They changed course once Hardin decided that he wanted out because that really kicked them into a rebuild. There was very little choice in the matter.

Everything revolved around Hardin, like everything. And they actually started off with negative assets thanks to the Westbrook trade. So they had traded away in exchange for Westbrook in 2019. a 2021 pick swap, which they got very, very lucky with because they could have ended up without a pick if they'd had the Pistons Watery Luck. I think they had a 52% chance of getting number five, and if they got number five, it would have gone to the Thunder. And they owe a 2024, top four protected pick to the Thunder. They owe a 2025 top 10 protected pick swap and a 26 top four protected first. This is why they went and spent in free agency this season, in part because they had to get to the salary.

floor you have to get to the salary for if you want to get luxury tax revenue sharing. But also because they had absolutely nothing to gain by not being, you know, by tanking this season. Basically, their best case scenario would have seen them be the worst team in the league and have a less than 50% chance of keeping their pick. So they had no first in 2020. Again, and that was due to that huge four-way trade that February that left the rockets with the apotheosis of small ball, Robert Covington playing center, which worked kind of fine in the first round, and then they ran in Anthony Davis in round two, and it didn't go quite so well. They did get a first in 2020 by trading Robert Covington that ultimately went to the pistons.

But from the Tarden trade, they got first in 2024 and 26 and swaps in 2023, 2025, and 27. But if we're talking future assets, they haven't traded either of those away. So in any case, yeah, the Covington trade also a 2023 first from Portland. Basically, the rockets are kind of like an interesting situation because they say, started off in the hole. And then they, and so they didn't have those, they basically could not trade a pick between 2023 and 2028, not their own pick, which is an issue. They ended up getting a bunch of picks in exchange for Hardin, and those picks are actually going to be,

I mean, those will have an implication on the Rockets being able to trade, well, actually, you know, it just means in terms of the stepping in rule in 2023, and, well, which has already happened, which is now irrelevant. But the stepping in a rule, they'd be a lot to trade their own pick in 2027 because they'd have one from the nets that's unprotected. So they started off in the hole in assets, very soon kind of got themselves, got themselves back on track. So, yeah, it's, that one's kind of a little bit more difficult. They, they were kind of neutral. And then we have Oklahoma City, who started off the 2020 draft with. 17 first-round picks. Sam Presti did an amazing job in terms of getting assets for Westbrook and for

Paul George. Those, that enormous haul of assets he got from the Clippers for Paul George, you know, just the package you got in exchange for Westbrook was very substantial. And part of that was Chris Paul, whom he then flipped to the Sons after one season in which, you know, he played next to SGA. Shea Gildeghildes-Alexander, of course, is a top-10 player in the league now and who also came over and the Clippers trade. That was just an excellent trade for the Thunder. It was kind of a, you'd call it a win-win if the Clippers

have been able to actually do anything, but they haven't. But yeah, between Westbrook, George, Chris Paul, and even Dennis Schroeder, who can believe got them a first. Yeah, they went in with 17 first-round picks, counting their own in those that have been traded to them between 2020 and 2026.

So he just did an excellent job there. And in terms of roster players, Shea, of course, who's still there, and Dorth, who's also still there. So didn't really go about trading roster players aside from those four. Tritter, I believe, I don't remember if that was in 2020 or not. So in any case, this is just all to say that the Pistons and the Rockets kind of started off roughly equal. Except, oh yeah, I should mention this. They didn't start off equal.

The Pistons started off the worst because the Rockets actually did have somebody, did have some players they could trade. They did trade Covington, and that got them a pick from the Pistons, that infamous pick, which basically has tied up everything for the Pistons in terms of first-round picks and trading them until 2029. And Gordon, Eric Gordon, and PJ Tucker, whom I almost just called Darcy Tucker, who used to play hockey a while back, notably for the Maple Leafs, not a very nice guy.

That, ultimately, those guys went through two trades and got Houston pick 20 in 2023, which turned into Cam Whitmore. So the rocket started out a little bit ahead of the Pistons. The magic started out a little bit ahead of the Pistons just because they had Vutrovich. And the Thunder, of course, who are now in the best position, started off with far more than everybody else.

They really haven't done a ton with those first-round picks. They really need to find a way to leverage those. They've already kicked one down the road, kicked the can down the road once by trading one away to Denver for something in the far future. So that just deserves to be said. The Pistons did start off the worst.

They also had the Blake Griffin. contract to contend with the rockets had john wall so they were comparables there um because they would ultimately trade away westbrook before that season for heavily protected 2023 first which actually ended up doing some good things for him so let's talk draft and it's worth mentioning lottery luck the lottery luck the rockets came out a little bit ahead of the other teams because the rockets ended up with number two in 2021 and number three in 2022 and then number four in in 2023 whereas the pistons ended up to one five and five the thunder fell to six in 2021 they did jump to to two in 2022 and then the magic of course on the magic that number five then

number one number six so the rockets were out a little bit ahead pistons could have used a little bit more luck but just in terms of comparables it really hasn't been all that different between the four teams So from there, we can talk personnel first. You know, this is obviously an important one. You look at the Thunder, I win Danielle, a good coach. Like, they run a good system. It's very clean. It's not perfect, but it's good.

I think DeNio is a top 10 coach. The Rockets started off by hiring Stephen Silas, who was terrible. It has now been terrible with multiple teams. It ran a horrible locker room with the Rockets. Players wait him like, who knows it was horrible, but the players definitely didn't like him. and he was just a complete mess in terms of his ex as a nose coach. And so, of course, Monty Williams hired him to be an assistant for the Pistons this season,

which was even though some assistants are good as assistants and bad as head coaches, I think Silas has such a bad history as an assistant and a head coach that it was completely dumbfounding hire. But then they ended up with Udocha, who's solid, maybe above average. The Magic, after year one, hired Jamal Mosley, who was a genuinely good coach. Pistons ran with Casey for the first three seasons. They were the only team to maintain a coach for more than one season after, you know, from 2020 on. And we all know Dwayne Casey, you know, good locker room guy, solid development guy, but a pretty bad on-court coach.

And then, of course, this season hired arguably the worst coach seen in the NBA in decades, who was competent, if very limited, and did horribly in the playoffs, you know, just one season ago and still inexplicably devolved into a complete another catastrophe. Okay. All right. So basically, we know where they started. We just talked a little bit about the personnel. It's going to come down here to drafting and to, you know, what they do by, you know, what they have done by way of facility and management, you know, largely trades in free agency. So drafting is obviously a good place to start. So we'll start with the Pistons. We talked about this point. So I'll summarize this. The 2020 draft, a lot of chips got pushed in. The Pistons, traded that pick to Houston, which we'll talk about next what Houston did with it.

In exchange for Stewart, they had number seven. They traded Luke Kennard alongside four second round draft picks because of concerns that the clippers had over his health. For a pick 19, which they took to Seleke Bay, and they took on Tony Bradley from the Jazz as a cap dump in exchange for picking the 40s somewhere for Saving Lee. This draft was horrible. We all know it. I don't really need to talk too much about it. Killian was an enormous bust. Sadiq turned from kind of promising, very mature leader, you know, solid three-point, you know, good three-point shooter.

And, you know, solid enough defender lies beyond his years, not behind his years, not behind his years. And just into disaster on defense and selfish player in year three. And then went on to replicate that in year four before tearing his ACL, which for a player who's got his pretty poor athleticism in the first place may end his career. And Saban Lee, you know, second round picks, you don't care as much if they bust, but he definitely busted. I think he had a good game for the Sons recently, but on the whole, he's been pretty bad for them too. This is what happens when you're not really explosive, you're more just quick, but you're not quick enough really to get past guys and score into, and you can't jump that high. So you're just quick and you're just going below the rim and it's Tyrese Max you can do it, but you're not as quick as he is. And you can't shoot threes and you're not a particular.

really good playmaker. So that draft was a flop. Now the Pistons expended pick number seven, that future first, which is really going to lock down flex, it continues to lock down flexibility for what it's worth, because the Pistons shouldn't be training future first anyway, but nonetheless. And then Kinnard, who was basically their only roster player with value and four second round picks, three of which belong to the Pistons. And we're certainly not without value, given that the pistons have fallen and in the standings. And then some cap space, you know, what you want to use, of course, to take on assets. Obviously, that's gotten a bad name in the last, no, since the last off-season. And all of that, in what was a draft, which turned out to have some good talent, some pretty darn good

talent, which the pistons had access to, and sometimes had access to three times. And what you get out of is a bench big, whom the front office this season chooses to miscast as a powerful. forward and hopefully that is over and done with. So that draft was a flop. 2021, you get pick number one, I think the only realistic pick there, especially for a team that's looking for a lead handler is Kate Cunningham. And then you have 42. You have, I think, 52 and 57. 42, you choose to risk it on an unathletic and persistently injured player who's not even going to be healthy until like four months into the next season, longer actually, I think it would ultimately be like five months.

And I guess you're hoping that even though he had a serious injury, in years three and four, and was going to be coming into the league at 23 years old, and it was not a good NBA athletes and was only going to really be able to succeed as, you know, you're sealing in that kind of guy is like an eighth man. And if you get that in, you know, in the second round, then that's fine. But hoping that a player like that is relying to any degree upon the notion that he might ever be healthy, consistently healthy after that is questionable.

And then Luca Garza, who had no NBA upside, I think he's had a few decent games recently for the Timberwolves, but that guy is always going to be a massive defensive liability, of course, is forever unplayable in the postseason. There's no question about that. And then instead of drafting Jericho Sims, who would have been an athletic big, at least, and the pissens needed an athletic big, and ultimately we'd have no athletic bigs that season until February. They drafted ball to Balsa, Coprovita, which didn't make any sense to anybody because he had not even the slightest bit of NBA upside.

They ultimately, strangely enough, traded him for cash to the Clippers. I'm not sure whether Clippers paid seven figures for him, but whatever, not my money. 2022, you had Ivy. The way the choice he was between Ivy and Matheron, and that's still up for debate. Of course, Jalen Williams turned out to be much better, but nobody saw that coming. You had Duren, who I think was a good swing at that point, continues to have a lot of potential, though there are some weeks definitely sprung this season. And then Gabriel Proceda, and this was a case of the Pistons kind of letting the tail wag the dog,

just the desire to not have another standard NBA contract and a young player, not being able to trade it and saying, okay, well, you know, we're going to, you know, we're just going to draft the guy with the passport, so we don't have to worry about that. That's pretty lazy. And then, of course, in 2023, you have a SAR at number five, and you have Sasser, whom they trade it up. to select near the end of the first round. So you look at drafting overall. So 2020 ended up being kind of like a watershed moment, unfortunately, for the rebuild,

where Weaver and company, and again, it's so hard to know how much power our intelmen at Stavansky have in this process. They both technically outrank Weaver, and we've seen that they're involved in drafting. And who knows, so I don't like to just say Weaver. I just go with the front office here. But whoever it was in charge had a great chance to, get a head start on the rebuild by getting some good talent and completely blew it. I mean, this was like a D plus draft, a D plus draft in that they had got something out of it,

but the only something they got out of it was a bench big. And it's both the missed opportunities and the fact that they expended assets and the fact that you have three picks in the top 20 and all you get is a role player, especially you waste, also you have pick number seven where you've just absolutely made the wrong decision. You call Desmond Bain and you're telling me you might draft him at 16. you don't draft him at 16, you don't draft him at 19. And you look at this, and I keep coming back to the fact that, sure, you see that a lot of players, a lot of teams missed out on a lot of players who were drafted out for them.

And that's, that's always the case, that a lot of teams will miss out on guys who turn out to be very good. But if you want to be a good general manager, you have to not be those guys. You have to be the guy who swoops in and finds the talent that others don't see. It's not okay to just say, well, I screw this up as much as everybody else did. you know, like I missed the boat, like a lot of other general managers. If we want to build a contender, you can't do that. But Weaver did not only miss the boat, but just,

or Weaver at the front office, they sucked in that draft. 2021, I mean, if the Pistons had fallen in this draft and gotten like pick number six, I mean, we'd be saying now very, very bad things probably about this rebuild. Who knows what would have happened in the next two seasons. I mean, even worse things about this reveal, but whatever they got, number one. I think Cape was the reasonable choice there. I still think he's the right choice. he was also basically the consensus choice.

Wevers, I think, was a questionable pick, but it's a second round pick. Garza and Kopraveza, even by the standards of picks in the 50s, were completely bizarre and didn't make any sense. So you'll give Weaver, or front office, excuse me, like a solid C in that draft, because they were always going to take C'd. I mean, I think that was going to be the decision, period. And their picks after that just did not work out. I'm not even getting them the C-minus because it just didn't really make a ton of sense. in terms of their other three picks.

2022. I mean, I think this is a solid B-plus draft for them. You know, they managed to get that second pick. They took Duren, who I think if he can just get his defense together could be a very, very good player. I think that, I think, still think that Ivy has a lot of potential. It was down to here, Matherin. Sharp, I don't blame them for not taking Sharp because he, there was just no data.

Jerry's out on Sharp, too. He started strong this season and then completely fell flat in his face and has been injured for most of the season. The injury didn't come from falling flat in his face. I mean, I meant that metaphorically. that he was very bad for about, I think, 20 games before his injury. He played 30-something. He was strong at first and then did very badly thereafter.

So, yeah, just the possibility that they may have found, you know, a pretty darn good player in the middle of the first round with the pick that they acquired from the Knicks, I think is, I think was admirable. I think Ivy still has a lot of potential. And 2023, I know this is a little bit controversial because ultimately the Pistons really adding a complete non-shooter. I mean, that's a risk, but also adding a complete non-shooter when the rest of your youth are, you know, your core youth, you don't really have shooting there either, and your team is short on elite shooting. The trouble in 2023 is that, like, there

weren't really guys who were reasonable, sort of either really high floor or high ceiling with just a reasonably high ceiling with elite shooting, unless you wanted to go with Taylor Hendricks, whom my opinion was just that the ceiling wasn't there. It was just a tough draft in terms of kind of more game-ready but still very talented players and in terms of trade-down opportunities. I mean, who knows what they could have gotten by way of roster player. But once you hit number five, I mean, they could have gone with Cam Whitmore. The jury is out.

I mean, the guy, one thing that's true about the guy, I mean, he's doing well as a score, but one thing is true about the guy is that he's a horrendous passer. Last I looked, he was at the bottom of the league in terms of assists per possession. but there was also there were also the questions about his workouts and about his health. I don't think it really would have been responsible in one of those taking him in number five. And Sasser, I've gone back and forth about him because Sasser, at some points this season, it's looked like, okay, this guy could actually be a pretty good backup point guard. And, you know, just a guy who can make tough shots and just use that gravity to allow him to make plays for his teammates.

And then there are other times at which it's like, man, this guy has to be on the floor with another creator because he just can't do it himself. And in that situation, it's like, well, he can't really be your backup point guard in that case. He's not going to be able to lead an offense. You always want more than one creator on the floor at a time. But if this guy is kind of helpless as a creator, which he is when he's not hitting tough shots, because if he's not hitting tough shots, he's not attracting that gravity. If he's not hitting tough shots, he's also just not doing much on offense because he's not going to beat anybody off the dribble. So, and if he can't be a backup point guard, then he's an undersized shooting specialist who has to be on the floor with a larger, you know, with a larger handler.

So this draft, I'll just give a solid average. I think Asar was the only reasonable pick, unless you think Jaros Walker was it, and I don't think he is. So I'll just give it a flat average. So basically what it comes down to is one horrible draft, like genuinely horrible draft, two very, very average drafts. You know, and I'd say 20-21 average at best, because, you know, it just bugs me. The fact that the Garza and the, in the, in the, in the, balls it picks made out so we no sense. I don't care if they're in the 50s. Sometimes you get good picks in the 50s. Aaron Wiggins for the Thunder is giving them good minutes. So,

and then you have one pretty good draft, and the hallmark of that pretty good draft was just Jaylen Dern, on whom the jury is still out. So, I mean, I'll downgrade that one to like a B, especially because the jury is still out on Ivy who has struggled. Matherin hasn't really been great, but he's been better than Ivy. So you've got one slightly above average, above average draft, you get two average drafts and you have got one really bad draft. That gets you to like a two out of five on the drafting scale. It is not gone well yet. Things will look up if Ivy and Duren really come through, but man, does that 2020 draft hurt?

That was a disaster. So I spent a while on the Pistons here. I'll spend a little bit less time in the other teams. So the magic, Cole Anthony in 2020, again, they made the playoffs the season before. So Anthony, whatever, mid-first round pick, really hasn't panned out as they would have liked. I did miss out on some guys behind him like Tyrese, for example. Anthony was an interesting choice because there was the real questions are, you know, can he weed in offense?

And the answer turned out to be no. He's just kind of a heat check guy off the bench who doesn't really play very good defense and isn't reliable from three. But with the 15th pick, I mean, it's not a disaster if you just miss once on a pick, you know, right out on the edge of the lottery. 2021 with Barnes being taken number four, they took Suggs. he was really the only pick that made sense at the time. It doesn't look like he's going to be a guy who can lead an offense,

but he looks like he's going to be a pretty darn good three-indie-guard. Franz Wagner was a huge hit in 2021. Huge. Nobody expected him. You know, maybe the magic did, but I don't think anybody beyond the magic, even if they did, you know, assuming that they did rather expected that Wagner would be this good. And, I mean, he's having a down year from three, but is still a very good player. I mean, Wagner is a very good two-way player.

And then in 2022, excuse me, Boncaro, it was really unclear who was going to be the number one overall pick. I think the odds were still on Jabari Smith Jr. as late as draft day until I think something got leaked on draft day. But, excuse me, sorry, have the sniffles again. So Boncaro, I think, for me, it would have been a risky pick for the Pistons. But I mean, I think they made the right decision taking him over. Jabari Smith, Jr. I still have my doubts about Boncaro. I mean, he's definitely improved his three-point shooter this season, which is always going to be necessary? I still have my doubts in terms of, is this guy really, I mean, a guy whom you're really going to want to play around a lot,

oh, he's managed to get the program better than I expected to, despite the very meth for a step and the fact that he was very ISO-based in college. He's done a lot better than I expected in terms of attacking in the interior, though he's not nearly as ISO-based as he was back then. But is this really going to be a guy whom you, who's good enough to play around, and you have to play around, and you have to play around Boncaro, but nonetheless made the right choice there. Caleb Houston could be a decent pick at 32, who knows at this point. In 2023, of course, is way too early to call with Anthony Black and Jet Howard. But all told, you know, I'd give them a four out of five in terms of drafting. Just hitting on Franz Wagner, that was a huge pick. And choosing Boncaro over Jamari Smith,

Jr., I think, was the way to go over Chet, who knows, but they really did need that kind of lead handler sort of guy and Boncaro is going to do that for them. So they've done well. And that is Jeff Welkman, I believe, is his name. We move on to the Rockets with Raphael Stone. Yes. In 2020, in 2020, they had nothing. They picked Kenyon Martin Jr. at 52. And I think Kenya Martin Jr. Am I getting his name right? Whatever, he's gone on to do nothing for them. 2021, Jalen Green at number two. You can make the argument that they should have gone with Evan Mowley. The jury is very much still out on Jailen Green because he's had a rough time this season for the most part.

He's really picked it up lately. Where they really hit it in 2021, they traded for the pick that became Alperin, I don't want to pronounce his first name, Alperin Schengun, who I think is already at this point at Top Ten Center. I have my doubts about his ability to display switch defense in the playoffs. They'd have to protect him there.

But speaking in terms of offense, I mean, the guy is verging on Demontas Sabonis at this point, and Sabonis is a pretty darn good player on offense. I've seen it asked, oh, is he, you know, can he be Yokic? Nobody's going to be Yokch possibly for the remainder of the history of the NBA, excuse me, the remainder of the future of the NBA until the sun burns out. You might not see another Yokic. Like in terms of centers who can score in the interior and in our strong playmakers,

you've got Schengun is already up there with Sabanus. And then you have a gigantic gap between Sabanus and Yokic. Yokic is in terms of, as a, as a, as a, a center on offense, he may be the most talented of all time, and in terms of his skill set, he might be greater than generational. But nonetheless, Schengun was still very good, as drastically outperformed as draft position. The rest of the draft, which was picks they acquired from one from Portland. I don't remember where the other two came from, but Garuba, Christopher, and Taita, Washington, who were picked in the middle late 20s and went nowhere,

which really isn't kind of what you want. He'd really like to get. at least a little bit of something out of the three of them and they got nothing. 2022, I mean, they went number three. They were going to take whoever was left between Jabari Smith Jr. and Chet and Dan Boncaro, and they got Jabari Smith Jr. Can't blame them for that. I think that, you know, with Jalen Green on the team in particular, you weren't going to take Matherin or Ivy.

So I think Jabari Smith Jr. has gotten some very strange usage. I thought he'd get more usage this season as a shot grader, but he really hasn't. But this three-point shooting really hasn't been as good as that. expected either, but he's always going to be a strong rotation player, I think, a guy who is pretty good from three and play strong defense. But he was also just the only pick that he was going to reasonably make at that point. Tari Isan, this is, I believe, one of the Nets picks. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. He was drafted 17. I think he's going to be a solid rotation player in the NBA. He's highly athletic, you know, he's a solid shooter. He's solid again in the basket. Still sucks

as a passer. But at 17, I think that's a good pick. And 2023. Again, comes down to to Amman really being the only reasonable choice. They do need a, you know, a franchise handler. You're worried about a shooting. I think he was the only reasonable choice at this point. I think it was a risk worth taking. And Whitmore, if he works out at number 20, they took that risk. That's going to be a good pick. So again, I give them a four out of five, same as the magic. You know, the Schengen pick really puts it up there. And, you know, you'd like to see them do better with those, with those picks in the 20s in 2021. But I'm all told, yeah, you get Schengen there. You get Easton at 17, possibly Whitmore, pretty good. And then we come to the Thunder,

who are the team who needed to draft well the least, but may have done the best. Pocyshevsky in 2020 was a bust. I mean, there's no doubt about that. And they did tradeaway picks that ended up being quickly in Jaden McDaniels, but, you know, it's anybody's guess as to whether they were going to pick those guys anyway. 2021, Giddy number six,

I don't think anybody expected to go quite that high. He's been decent. Still needs to work in a shot, but he's been a good pick. Treyman, juries out. Jeremy Robinson Earl is off the team. And Aaron Wiggins, who, as mentioned, was picked in the 50s, has actually given them some good minutes and maybe on the team in the long term. 2022, they could have gone with Jabari Smith Jr. They ended up taking Chet Holmgren, who has looked very good this season.

He might not win rookie to year because Wembe has just been so impressive, but he's been very good nonetheless. Jalen Williams was the really big hit here. At number 12, Williams could have gone anywhere from the middle of the first to the end of the first. I mean, he was a guy who had solid fundamentals and a solid all-around game, but very athleticism

and wasn't judged to have high-level talents, came in and was second rookie to year as a 20-point-per-game score of the season. And, I mean, that's a huge win. It's not quite the sort of win that a Schengen is, I think, or Franz Wagner, but that was a very good pick. And then Jalen Williams, the other J-1 Williams,

yeah, that was a funny situation. It was picked at 34. and yeah, the jury's still out. Kason Wallace, interesting pick because the thunder already pretty deep at guard, and then the jury's out there. So I'd still give them a solid four out of five for, you know, I think Giddy was a decent pick and what turned out to be a not as strong as expected top 10 in 2021.

Picking Chet over Jabari Smith, I think was the right call. I still have my doubts about his ability to remain healthy at that size and to not get bullied, but, you know, we'll see. I think he was the right pick over JSJ. And then Jalen Williams was just such a win for that. So I'd say you got three, four out of five grades there for these other teams. And the Pistons who are really yet to pull out a player who's like, okay, well, we really went out and got a win and had the drafts were decent.

And again, bear in mind, the Pistons were ahead by one draft. You know, they had four drafts in which they were picking high versus three for these other, three for these other teams. Rockas didn't even have a 20-20 first round pick. Magic were at 15, the Thunder were at 17. So those teams have done better work. in three drafts than the Pistons have done in four, significantly better. You give those other teams, you know, four to five grades, and the Pistons probably a two.

And then let's look at management here. I hope this isn't getting too convoluted, but we look first at Troy Weaver. Now, I'd say the best thing that Weaver did came at the very beginning, and he cut a lot of shade for this, and it turned out to be a really good idea, which was signing Jeremy Grant's two-year, $60 million deal. Grant was a role player before this. everybody thought Weaver was crazy. It turned out to be a guy who was a real stabilizer those first two seasons,

turned into a much better creator than anybody expected. And you could get the ball to him and expect him to do a decent job of getting a bucket. He was strong on defense. He was reliable from the perimeter. He was ironically exactly the sort of guy that this season's team could have used, or even last season's team. So that was a win. Plumley was, you know, whatever.

I mean, the Pistons lost some dead cap space. for, you know, for the sake of, I mean, it was kind of funny that Josh Smith cap hit came off the books just at the same time as the Pistons got the dead cap hit of Zaire Smith and Dwayne Deadman at the same time. So, in any case, yeah, those were intended to get, you know, all that cap dumping was intended to get Jeremy Grant and Miles, excuse me, Mason Plumley on the team. And Plumley did his job, you know. He was a veteran. He was one of the worst starting centers in the league and a team that wanted to lose a lot of games. And, you know, he was, it was decent enough. I wish they'd kept them around longer, to be honest, because I think he would

have been a good fit for Cade in that second season. But, yeah, signing Jeremy Grant, whom he would ultimately trade for Jalen Duren, who continues to have a high ceiling, that was the best thing that Troy Weaver, or the front office put it that way. So I said that I would qualify as such. At the front office, maybe the, I think the best move, the front office has made, period. You know, even pending if Durham becomes a really good player, it's still going to be one of the best moves that they made because Grant was what allowed them to trade for the pick that became Durran. So you look beyond that.

My goodness is this episode already getting long. Goodness gracious. So, yeah, you look beyond that. It was pretty much just a litany of we're going to trade for reclamation projects. We're going to trade second round picks for reclamation projects or we're going to sign reclamation projects. and we're going to do that instead of putting any veterans on the team and we're going to watch 100% of them fail pending James Wiseman,

which, you know, I guess anybody's guess. I still don't think it looks that great. But that basically sums up what this front office has done. Again, I look to 2021 and, I mean, a little bit happened in 2022, but I looked at 2021 in which the person's got the first overall pick and it's like, okay, well, generally you want to give some guys who can do the fundamentals around your first overall pick when it's like a nearly pick and roll heavy ball dominant handler. Okay, so, you know, let's, you know, at least ensure that he has a decent amount of shooting.

Let's give him an athletic big to run on the pick and roll with. And cool, you know, we can maybe try out some reclamation projects as well. But then we want to ensure that we have a half, half, half decent roster. Not in terms of you don't have to have a roster that's going to win games. Not necessarily, but a roster does the fundamentals. They decided to throw that sort of conventional wisdom out the window and just go with more reclamation projects. Not only that, but trade away. Their athletic pick and roll big was Mason Plumley and start picking clog, Isaiah Stewart, was terrible on the pick and roll.

And they weren't going to have him be a shooter that season. So he was going to do nothing but get in Cade's way. They had way too many reclamation projects on the team. They had way too little in the way of shooting. You know, basically if, like, if Cahillian didn't work out as shooting guard alongside Cade, and I get that they had to try, but the prospect of that ever working out was very low to, you know, pretty unathetic backcourt, but also two guys who are just going to be at their best with a ball in their hands. Basically, they got bailed out by Corey Joseph of all players

becoming a good shooter when Killian just absolutely did a horrible job. But then Jeremy Grant was injured and they didn't have enough shooters to even put another one in the starting lineup. You know, it was just a, it was an idiotic disaster of an offseason, like incomprehensibly stupid. move on to 2022. They did bring on Alec Berks. They got paid to bring on Alec Berks and their ones know well. They took on that cap dump as part of the Jalen Duren trade. Jalen Duren, I think that was a good trade to make. They ended up being costlier than we would have thought because of what Jeremy Grants could have brought this team. But, you know, whatever. And then you make, you know, a pretty good trade to bring on Boyan Bogdanovich. Cool. You end up trading Burks and

Boyan later on and what has ultimately been kind of like an addition by subtraction thing. Hopefully Grimes will work out. But, uh, Other things, yeah, you dump Seku, which probably was a pretty good move. You get assets for dumping Seku, we'll put it this way, and bringing on DeAndre Jordan. Though certainly the front office has done hardly anything with the seconds they brought on. They've just traded away a lot of them for reclamation projects that haven't worked out, and then traded two of them for a reclamation project, and then traded another two to get rid of them. The Bagley contract wasn't great.

Yeah, basically the front office has really struggled to bring on any. the only way in which they've actually done anything on the margins is Duran and then Fontejo in four seasons, you know, outside of Jeremy Grant, which we've already noted, it was a very good move. That is it. I mean, they have done a very, very bad job in terms of, and they failed to, they've consistently failed to provide rosters that have anything in the way of solid fundamentals, and that comes up to this season. Last off season was a disaster. You got $30 million in caps based. Morris, okay, fine. But then spending $20 million in Joe Harris, who is not realistically going to provide you with anything, starting Isaiah Stewart at Power Forward, having no contingency

plan in case either he doesn't work out or you're powerful, you know, where he gets injured, having your backup centers, your backups to this still very young, very raw Jaylen Duren, B2 Reclamation Projects. So in terms of how well they've done as just in terms of management, in terms of overall management. I mean, it's been real bad. Like the Grant's, Grant movie was good, the Duran trade was good, the Boyan trade was good, the Borg's trade, you know, the Berks trade, you know, was all right.

But I think that just lands them like in an out of five grade, like a one and a half. Like on the management side of things, this front office has done a very bad job. I think that's pretty much unambiguous. They get a little bit better. And in trading for Fontechio, again, it's small sample size,

but he looks like he can be a solid role player going forward. And we'll see about Quentin Grimes. but even if those two work out, you look, and that's not a lot to show, you know, the good moves. Of course, Boyan, I'm Birx, Grimes cost you that. So just the good moves they have made versus the bad moves they have made and what they have failed to do in terms of ever-stocking, including this season, this team with the fundamentals,

to just run a functional offense at all, period. And, you know, even just that, they've done a very bad job. They decided to deviate from conventional wisdom, and it's like, okay, be innovative by all means. But, like, that's a big, risk going the reclamation project heavy roster. And like if half of them had worked out, we'd be feeling a lot better about it right now. But they took a big risk and they fell flat on their faces, like flat on their faces. And just in terms of finding talent on the margins,

not great. All right, let's move on to the magic. The big thing they did was they traded Vouchovic for Wendell Carter Jr. and 2021 and 2023 first round picks. This was one of the most swap side of trades ultimately of the last decade. Vujovic moved on to be pretty washed up. I mean, Chicago was a little bit weird. I think they made, I mean, Chicago's got weird ownership. They got bad ownership, you know, like bottom five ownership. You can see based on what they did going up to the deadline this season with a team

that may not even, you know, may not even make the playoffs this season. And with DeRosen going into a free agency, and they did nothing. They didn't sell at all. So if they had gone on to make the playoffs that season, then this wouldn't look nearly as bad. They still would have lost a pick. but, you know, they wouldn't have looked as bad. In the event, Vucovich has turned out to be worse than Lendl Carter Jr., sent her who was traded for, who was sent over to the magic in the trade.

He's pretty washed. He's just nowhere near as good as offense as he used to be, and he's bad on defense. So even Wendell Carter Jr. for Vucovich has been a bad trade for the Bulls, and they lost the 2021-8th pick, which turned into Franz Wagner. That was huge for the magic. and 2023, which turned into Jet Howard, and who knows how that's going to go. But this was a major fleecing. This really made the rebuild for the magic.

That was a great trade for them. They got a little bit fortunate, of course, but that was just a really, really good trade. They traded Aaron Gordon, excuse me, for 2025 first, and RJ Hampton, who didn't do anything, ended up in a pistons ultimately. And Denver's 2025 first is probably not to be very good, but, you know, they got an asset for the guy. And then beyond that, it's like, okay, they signed Mo Wagner, which, which was cute for him to be on the team with his brother. He's sometimes been okay and sometimes been decent and sometimes been bad.

Goga Patz, who knows if he'll still be on the team, but he gave them good minutes this season. Well, Wondercutter Jr. was out and then on the bench. Otherwise, other than that, it's been pretty quiet. But I think you've got to give them at least like a four out of five just for pulling off the Voochievich trade and just how good that turned out for them. The Rockets, I mean, both of these teams, the Pistons have been kind of the loudest team when it comes to free agency and trades.

you know, considerably louder than the other three teams. I mean, this front office has put in work. They've just put in bad work, unfortunately. So you look at the Rockets, so the Isaiah Stewart trade, they got a future first, which they have made good use of. They also got 20-20-second first from the Blazers in the three-way trade. So they would ultimately use that first, along with the very heavily protected pick they got from the Wizards and the Westbrookwall trade to trade up for Schengen, and needless to say, that was a very, very adroit thing to do. That was very well done. And they traded, again, a combination of Tucker and Gordon in two separate trades for what would eventually become the Cam Whitmore pick. Solid. Beyond that, you signed Dylan Brooks,

who was punched way above his weight. You signed Fred Van Vleet, who has been pretty good for them. I mean, there's a major overpays, but they turned out to be solid signings for the Rockets who might make the plan this year. So I'd give them a solid maybe like three out of five just because they haven't done anything really remarkable aside for trading that for that pick for Schengun, which I think you put under drafting two because they picked him at number 15. That's just a really good draft selection. So you got a solid three out of five for the rock. It's nothing good. They didn't do particular, you know, they didn't, not particularly impressive, but solid enough. And then the thunder, there's really not a lot here. Like they traded Stephen Adams,

recently for the 2023 or excuse me 2024 nuggets no wait I'm getting mixed up here okay yeah they traded stephen adams to the grizzlies I believe can't remember when this was for 2023 nuggets first in kemrich williams and denouin to pronounce his name who is who was actually done pretty well and uh they waiter packaged I believe that nuggets first with uh with two first which included the pistons first and i think washington's first in 2023 heavily protested for Osmond Deng, I think you're pronouncing his name right? That outcome of that, yeah, is yet to be determined. Grab the 2025 first to take on Al Horford, and they did trade, like, picks in 2020,

which ended up being good players, and they traded the pick that ended up being in Shengun, which is not really ideal. They traded away, they traded up in 2023 draft by taking on Bertan so that they could take case in Wallace, stocked up on seconds, and signed Isaiah Joe. here's the thing with the thunder. I mean, it doesn't look particularly good. The thing is with the thunder is that they've got so much in the way of assets that, I mean, they were just, they were just able to operate in a different way. So like in a vacuum, it's like, okay, this is like a two out of five way of doing this is like a two out of five. I'm not including the seconds here because they got a ton of those and they still have a bunch of first. So it like in terms of thunder, like in context, I'd give them like a, I don't know, like a two and a half or a three, basically very, very average. They've got so much right now that, I mean, They have their youth and, you know, they've got a decent roster, and also they can make a splash. They can do something with all of these future first-round picks. So they're kind of an exception here.

They did well enough, nothing particularly good, nothing impressive. So basically, where this leaves us is that the other teams here did a significantly better job of drafting the Pistons. They all did better than the Pistons in terms of free agency and trades. The Thunder, again, didn't really do it. a ton of much of anything, but they're perfectly fine. They're perfectly fine anyway. And we get to what they've got now and what they've got now with the Thunder, a superstar whom they had already.

A pretty strong supporting cast, strong youth, decent bench, a lot of cap space, a good coach, and tons of assets to parley. The Rockets, promising young corps, decent supporting casts, you know, a couple of good veterans. You know, a fairly good coach, but they're in a position where they really need a leap from the youth, you know, whoever that is, they need a leap from the youth, whether that's, that's Amen Thompson, whether that's Jalen Green, Terry Easton, Ken Whitmore. A lot of what happens with them at this point is going to depend upon development from the youth, but they're not incredibly dependent upon it, but if they want to become a contender, they got to, they got to

have at least one of those guys really step up. The Magic and Strong Young Corps, decent supporting cast, they need some more veterans. They have a very good coach. A lot of cap space this summer. the thunder ends and the magic can be competing with the Pistons this summer as Capspace teams. They have less than the Pistons, but they still have a decent amount. They too are going to need to leap from the youth, but they're in a good position right now, certainly with room to grow. And then unfortunately we come to the Pistons, who as a result of not drafting well and is doing pretty poorly in trades and free agency and have a mismatched young corps,

as we know, have a relatively poor supporting cast. I mean, it's a little bit better now with the, hopefully better now, with the additions of Fontekeo and Grimes, but, you know, it's really pending in terms of Sasser, who maybe a solid role player will see. They don't have much stability in terms of veterancy. They are extremely dependent upon development at this point, like extremely. They have an absolutely horrendous coach. And they have tons of cap space, but they're far more dependent upon doing something with it than the other three. They have very little in the way of assets to parlay that aren't going to be selling low, like the current youth, for example,

or trading away far future first round picks, which this team should not be trading away at this point. So I hate to have this be kind of like a distressing end, distressing conclusion to things, but that is a comparison of these rebuilds. Of course, yeah, I mean, this turned into far more long-winded than I thought. This is, I think, once I truncate silence here,

is going to be about an hour and five minutes. So that's how we got to where we are. And thank you. I don't remember who submitted the question, but thank you. I had a good time doing the research on this, even if the conclusion, which kind of knew already, was not very happy. All right, folks, so that's going to be the end of this episode. As always, I want to thank you so much for listening. Hope you're all doing well. Catch you in next week's episode.