Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 19: Podcast Mock Draft and Finals Talk

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

This episode features a mock draft and explores the upcoming finals matchup.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. My name is Mike. I'm here with Tommy. Welcome to another episode of Drive into the Basket, recording after another hiatus due to some scheduling conflicts and real life factors. Thanks for pairing with us. So today we are going to start out by going through our own mock draft. So Tommy and I are just going to alternate picks. I'm going to go with 1357. He'll go with 246. And we'll just talk about whom we each believe is the best fit for the individual teams. We're just going to go on the basis. I mean, there's been some talk about possibly Golden States moving down, but possibly Minnesota, just saying, you know, we're going to look out and see what trades are out there for us. And, you know, maybe we'll move around as well, just based on what's looking best.

So we're just, obviously, that's impossible to predict. So we're just going to go on the basis of the current draft order. So we're just going to go on the basis of the current draft order. So we're just going to launch right into it. So number one is the Minnesota Timberwolves. So I'll start here. I'm going without any hesitation with Anthony Edwards. So Anthony Edwards is probably continues to be the consensus number one overall pick.

You know, not that that really matters for these purposes. But I think between just this level of talent and the fit in Minnesota, I think he's just definitely the best pick for that team. he's a guy with a questionable floor. The thing is that he's got a lot of talent. He could easily bust as well. I'd say his floor is probably somewhere on the order. Maybe a less talented Andrew Wiggins.

Wiggins is just pilloried a little bit unfairly. I think his issue is that he's incredibly overpaid. Now that he's a bad player, he's actually pretty decent score. So I don't think that's necessarily Wiggins' floor. I think it's actually a little bit less than Wiggins. I think Wiggins is a very talented. player who's just kind of lost mentally. His ceiling, I think, could be Donovan Mitchell.

Again, maybe not exactly. We're just talking, you know, comparable to see or not exact. I think Mitchell has a sort of mental outlook that is pretty special. The guy's a super hard worker, a very team-first kind of guy, very mature from the moment he came into the NBA. But just in terms of athleticism and in terms of just potential as a score, I think that's where you're going to find at the upper ceiling, which, of course, would be great for Minnesota if they were able to get a player like that.

But Edwards, and we, for those who are listening who didn't listen to our draft previews, we went really very in depth into, I think all of the players, certainly all the players we're going to be discussing here. So we're not going to go too in depth into their qualities, but I'll just sum up for Edward's part. Super athletic guy who's got a high ceiling as a score. You know, if he puts it together, he'll be able to score from the outside, from inside the arc and the paint

and on the drive could be a very talented all-around score and just as his athletic ceiling is very, very high which of course is super important in today's NBA. So the Timberwolves

would be getting themselves a shot at a potential star level score on the wing, which would be fantastic for them to pair with De Angel Russell and Carl Anthony Towns. Of course, if you're going to play with

Russell, Edwards does need to learn to play off the ball. And there's always the possibility that he never puts himself together as a shooter. He really wasn't the greatest shooter in Georgia. Though in his defense, he had to handle all of the duties for handling offense for that team. Tommy, what are your thoughts on that pick? Yeah, I agree with you. Pretty much all the reasons you listed. I think he's got the highest ceiling in the draft as a score. He gets to the basket really well, and I think that's probably going to be his best weapon in the NBA. He's got great size. pretty good burst. And since Carl Anthony Towns is a floor spacing center,

theoretically that lane can be opened up for him, and that's a decent fit for Minnesota, especially if he can learn to shoot. Yeah, some people have said Lamello, but I don't think Lamello fits with DeAngelo Russell, who's an extremely ball-dominant point guard. I don't think you really bring him in and expect that fit to be very good.

And I think just that the potential chance as an elite wing scorer is just something they can't pass up with point guard. I'd be taken care of. All right. Let's move on to number two. All right. So with the number two pick, the Warriors are going to select James Wiseman.

This is, again, under the assumption that the Warriors don't trade this pick, which there are rumors of them doing, but I think they could use cheap talent. A high draft pick is usually pretty good return on value. And I think James Wiseman, seven foot one center out of Memphis, only played three games. I think he'd be a good fit for them because the Warriors have kind of had this, just rotation of really cheap centers, and this could be a long-term solution for them. I think that even though he's not proven as a floor spacer, it's not going to matter as much when he's playing next to Steph Curry and Clay Thompson. He just needs to be quick enough to keep up with that fast warrior offense, and I think he's got the mobility to do so.

another instance of like just the warriors being just so overpowered from all angles and I think he's a much better fit than lamello ball who would probably have to come off the bench playing next to Clay Thompson and Steph Curry so I think Wiseman makes the most sense for the Warriors. What do you think? I agree. I think at this point it's their greatest need and of course you don't have to draft by need but I think for the Warriors who are a team who will be competing immediately. finally having a good center on the team would be very, very helpful. A guy you have on a cost-controlled basis under team control for four years.

And Wiseman may not put things together. I know that a lot of Pistons fans could look at him and see, oh, goodness, this guy could be another Andre Drummond, a guy who's got questions about his work ethic and engagement and dedication of the game. And, you know, he just really doesn't play hard all the time right now, though admittedly it's a very limited sample size in college. But if the guy does put it together, especially if he can get that shot going,

which may be fairly important if he's playing next to Draymond because you don't have Durant on the team anymore. You can't just say whatever we'll put out, you know, Curry and Thompson and Durant and really who cares if we have a fourth or fifth shooter on the floor, which is reasonable. But just in terms of his athleticism, the ceiling is a defender, just as sealing as an interior score as a guy in the pick and roll,

just as an interior scoring threat. I mean, if he can put that together and you put him next, to next a couple of greatest shooters of all time and one of the and a very, very good passer in Dremont's plus they could pair to become an excellent defensive front courts. So I think he's the guy you go with.

Well, Mello just can't play with Stefan and Clay. I just don't see how that could possibly work. So moving on to number three, we get to the Charlotte Hornets. And for my money, the Charlotte Hornets here would select Lamello Ball. So the Hornets still don't have their point guard of the future.

there are a couple of factors here really. Number one, the Hornets really still don't have the point guard of the future. You've got Terry Rozier, who despite having his contracts, severely pilloried, people looked at that, and they said, what is Michael Jordan thinking? He actually wasn't bad for the Hornets. That said, he's not your answer going forward. He doesn't have that ceiling. He's not going to be, I think it's very unlikely he's going to be the starting point guard

for a very successful playoff team. You've got Devante Graham, who, started off the season really well before really tailing off later on. Graham is kind of, in terms of his offense, is sort of a Fred Van Fleet's type of player, a guy who is very, very poor. He's actually even worse than Fred Van Gogh of this, very poor at penetrating to the basket

and really creating offense. So is not best suited as a lead guard. He's a guy who can shoot threes, really, you know, really quite well, and as good as a secondary passer, as long as he doesn't have to do it, by breaking down the defense and heading with him, and get into the basket. But again, guy who's best suited probably is a sixth man.

And so they really need, well, this is the best talent, I would say, on the table for them. And though I would personally never, ever, ever draft on the basis of hype and know this will get people excited. I think for Michael Jordan, having a potential big name on the roster being consideration, those of you who have been listening to his podcast for a long time, know that I don't think highly of Michael Jordan at all. I put him in the same class of owners as New York Rana dive of the Kings and James Dolan of the Knicks, you know, Glenn Sarver and unfortunately Tom Gores.

I think he's a meddlesome owner who just thinks he knows best but doesn't do good things for his team. But I think that'll also be a factor. But I think also just at this point in the draft with the Hornets where they are, you know, really long-term mediocrity and lack of success, I think taking a shot on Lamello's ceiling. I don't think super highly of him. but I think he's the best risk and the best choice for the Hornets at this stage of the draft. Yep. I agree with that.

I think there are other factors. It would be pretty crazy if, like, LeVar Ball's comments about Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan's sons not being good at basketball cost them this pick. But, I don't know. Can't really insult the guy's sons and then take his son, you know. It would just be, it's just a circus, honestly. with Lamello. And I really don't think that Jordan would let it affect them.

I think Lovar would change his tone pretty quickly. But I think it is a legitimate factor. There are a lot of things that come with drafting Lamello ball. And even if you think that he's the best player left, I mean, I think the fit would be fine. You know, they have P.J. Washington,

Miles Bridges, Malik Monk, and they're all like decent. They all have potential as floor spaces. And Lamello doesn't. but I think he can make the right passes to them. Their only real long-term weaknesses right now are the center and the point guard. So with James Wiseman being off the board, I think Lamello is the right way to go. But we'll see if that is what ends up happening.

Yeah, the other guy you could can see what we look at as the Hornets is a conwood. But I just don't think that they would shoot for that sort of safe pick. I think they go for Lamello. as far as Michael Jordan and LaVar Ball, I know I've said to see before. What comes to mind is the quote from the original Terminator, you know, with respect to Jordan. He's like, you know, he can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with.

It doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear. He will not stop ever until you're dead. You know, I didn't get the quote perfect. I didn't want to drag it out. But, yeah, I wouldn't. I would say that if LaBar Ball tries to pull the same shit he did with Lonzo in in Los Angeles

I would fear for his life like not actually but I think that Michael Jordan would see to it that Lavar was banned from everything if necessary Michael Jordan

that sort of narcissist hard ass who just doesn't you know doesn't defiance from anyone you know he didn't as a player either I don't see it

being a problem so all right Moving on to number four. Number four overall pick goes to the Bulls, and we're going to go with Denny of Dia for them. The Bulls have players of the future at pretty much every position except small forward,

and that's what Denny is. He's a bigger wing. He has questionable shot that's kind of been up and down through his career overseas in Israel and in EuroLeague. But I think he's a decent pick for them because he has ball handling capabilities and Kobe White and Zach Levine aren't.

Neither of them are really known as great ball handlers. They're more scores, and I think you can't really have too many secondary or capable ball handlers. So I really like that fit for the Bulls. I think he'd be pretty much the best pick for the Bulls regardless, because it's not the sort of deal where you only go by position. I think he just is the best player available at that point, and he happens to be the best fit.

Yeah, I agree with FDia. I think he is the best fit, and I think he is the best player available at that point. I think that being the BPA, number five, I think that's largely a symptom of this being a relatively weak draft. I think FDia would be a guy who, in a stronger draft, would probably go around eight, nine, or ten. But the only answer that the bulls have at Small Forward right now is Otto Porter Jr. Otto Porter Jr., I think is a capable player. I just don't think he's part of the plans going forward. He's also his health is completely unreliable.

So FD has got potential. He does fit in need. You can always use more basketball IQ and more playmakers off the dribble, even though he's not the greatest player off the dribble. He can still create for his teammates to a degree. So I would go with him also. So number five, we get to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Now, I have a small issue with the Cleveland Cavaliers,

namely I don't think that they're particularly competent. I think that Dan Gilbert's. is still pushing for them to go back to contending pretty quickly. It's completely bizarre when they fired Tailu for, you know, early on in 2018, the 2018-2019 season, excuse me, for doing poorly with a team that had no hope of winning. So this is where for me, I know we're just supposed to be going on based on who we would pick at that position, but it's like just the fact that it's Cleveland starts to encroach a bit upon me.

So I'm going to go with Obie Topin, which is sort of a weird pick, given that they have Kevin Love under contract. And we, just to be fully straight, we've done a previous iteration of this episode. I'm just not satisfied with how it came out. In this previous episode, I talked about, okay, well, they put Top and they put Top and the power forward and move Kevin Love to center. and I completely forgot about the existence of André Drummond on the roster of the Cavaliers, which Tommy postulated because I just blocked it out emotionally, which is not outside the realm of possibility. Because, you know, those of you who have been listening to this podcast,

know that I do not think highly of Andre Drummond, and I was quite relieved to see him off the team. I don't think he's a bad person. I just can't stand him as a player. But nonetheless, I think this is still a position where Cleveland would take Obie Top. And I don't think he has a very high ceiling as a player. I do think he's a safe pick who can contribute as maybe like the third, you know, if things really come together, the number two player, you know, and in a really good offense, probably number three, I would say.

But for a team like Cleveland, where you're probably looking at going back to contending fairly soon or trying to, at least contend for the playoffs. And given the relative weakness, like if they were like a slam dunk small forward available at this point like if fdaia were available number five with cleveland i'm like all right snap we've got you know chetty osman right now it's like the 28th best small forward in the league so we're going with any fdia but you know in lieu of that i think they go with the guy who you say okay we're confident he'll be a good score at the NBA level maybe he won't be a star but we're confident it'll be a good score Kevin love is not the long-term amateur for this team and uh you know we're just going to take top it and hope it works out so that's

what I'm going with as the cavaliers. The only other person I think about would be maybe Oisko Coro, a very athletic guy. Two, two can play. Both forward positions very well, which Toppin can't really do. I don't think you can really realistically defend anybody below power forward. But Toppin, excuse me, but Okoro just doesn't have the offense together at this point. So the Cavs going with Topin.

Right. Here's my thing with Topin. These playoffs are kind of exposed, not exposed, but the things that we've talked about in the past about, like what the modern big man has to be. Toppin has a power forward. I don't think he can play. He's not big enough to play center, but my main issue,

and it's kind of been magnified in these playoffs, is big men have to be mobile now. And Toppins' biggest draw is that his hips are terrible. Like his lateral mobility is just awful. And in this Boston Miami series, we saw Tice get beat off, just beat off movement by BAM so many times. And I think that's going to be a real issue with whatever team drafts topping because if you have a bigger player who can attack the rim like from distance and you can pull top and out to like the three point line, they're going to attack him every time because his lateral mobility and his defense positionally is just not good.

So I could see it being topping, especially him being an Ohio like a Dayton product. and having a lot of hype behind him, like, through the school year, I could see that happening. And since Kevin Love is obviously, he's too old to be a power forward of the future. And he could probably really learn from Kevin. I could see it being the pick. I think that's a likely pick in this scenario. But I think there's a really good chance that it's also a coro because B-line, after kind of being removed from his place as head coach because the players didn't like him, they kind of moved him into the scouting department. And one thing I've noticed about Akoro is college coaches love him.

And Beeline obviously is a former college coach. So college coaches love these hyper-athletic players with the intangibles. And even if they have a broken shot, which Okoro, in my opinion, does, I think there's a real chance that their scouting department looks at Akoro. They look at their roster holes and they say, yeah, that's the guy we need to go with. So for the purpose of this Machia, I guess we'll say that it's top into the cabs. but I think there's a real shot that Okoro is the guy. Yeah, I completely agree.

This is a pick that I felt that I feel pretty not necessarily comfortable with because, yeah, I could go either way. I'd say top in of all the guys, like in this draft, you have like nine. You have guys you can say, I think you can take 10, nine guys. And you can say, you know, these guys will be in the top, not of the top 10. But let's put it this way. You could basically, Okoro and Topin are interchangeable.

One of them will drop, I would say. I don't think both of them will be selected in the top nine. Right. And Topin could easily be the guy who drives too false to 10, just because of those concerns. But I just, yeah, I mean, this is where I'm kind of like torn because, yeah, this is supposed to be like this is who we would select. We think is best for the team.

And it's kind of coming in and I have with Cleveland, as it would with New York. Like, but it's Cleveland or but it's New York. And it's like, I just don't trust them to make the right decision. Now, I completely agree with what you've said about what you said about Biggs and just the need to move. And just the, it was even at this point, like, you know, the tendency or the strategy for offense is to just target the guy on switches. Like it was to Marcus Cousins last year in the playoffs. Like, just get this guy on a switch, put somebody on him who can isolate and beat him off the dribble.

And that was a big deal already. But in these playoffs, it's just huge. I mean, it's just gone one step further. So, I mean, you've got, you know, fortunately, with the teams you've got Romania, you've got a lot of guys who can still, you know, like Dwight Howard, I think still does a decent job or whatever. I mean, whatever, we'll get in that later as far as centers on isolations. But, yeah, I'm just sticking with Topin. And this is one, this is the kind of the pick here on which I think I could easily be wrong.

All right. On to number six with Atlanta. Yep. I'm going to go with, and this breaks my heart because I really want this guy, but I think the Hawks would take Halliburton. He's a 6-5 shooting guard. He has a wonky shot and that it's like a weird push shot, and he attributes that to being too weak at first to, like,

properly get the ball up at that distance. But two years at Iowa, he shot upwards of 40% both times. He's a good passer, and he kind of creates his own shot through his passing. like he'll get rid of the ball and he'll like put his teammates and himself in a better position to get a good shot. And then he'll find himself somewhere else and then they'll get it back to him and he'll put up the shot. And I think his shooting next to Trey Young would be really, really, really good fit. And I think his defense is good enough where he could kind of cover up some of the defensive issues that Trey Young brings. at 6-5, he would be a bigger point guard and just an okay-sized shooting guard in today's league.

But I think Halliburton and Trey Young, that's a really good back court. Maybe that's your back court of the future. And I would have liked to see him go to the Pistons. I don't think he's like a pure point guard of the future. I would still prefer him at shooting guard and just be like a secondary ball handler. but I think the Hawks would take Halliburton in this case. I completely agree. I think, I believe, he's,

Trey Young has been playing as Kevin Horder, who is a good shooter, but not a good defender, and has no ability to create offense for himself. So I think Halliburton can help to, is a good compliment to Trey Young. I think he really helps to allay some of Young's weaknesses. I think he'll be a good defender at the NBA level. He's got to put on some mass,

but he's got very good defensive IQ. He's a good mover. he can help to take some of the onus a little bit of the onus off of tray as the primary playmaker he always can use more guys who can hang out on the perimeter and shoot but i mean it's just it's just so nice to have another guy at the guard position who can create plays for others also right and just having anybody any of these guys these super high IQ players at the guard positions are on the wing is just so helpful so i think he's he's a very very good compliment for trey young You could look at Cam Reddish and say, who knows, maybe he'll come along.

But I wouldn't really want to count on Cam Reddish, to be honest. That's just me. Yeah, and honestly, speaking of Cam, he has been getting a lot better, like, throughout the year. But even then, he could, you can play the, you can just play, like, as a wing, as like a bigger wing. And you could still put Hallibur and Trey Young out all on the floor, all three of those guys on the floor together. But, yeah, you can, I think Herder is the guy to replace in the starting lineup right now. Yeah. I mean, you've got DeAndre Hunter as well, and I know the jury's kind of still out on him.

But, you know, you just, you can never have too much strength on the wing. Of course, you have those lineups where, and I'm sure we'll see this. I thought the Capella trade that the Hawks was a little bizarre. But I think you'll definitely see lineups in which you have a hunter. I mean, if you were to draft Halliburton, you can have lineups of Tray Young, Hellerton, Reddish 3, Hunter at the 4, and John Collins at the 5, and provided everything works out with those players. That would be very good lineups.

That would be very good lineups, John Collins. In particular, it's a very, very underrated player because he plays in Atlanta. So, all right. So moving on to, oh, man, what team is at number seven? I can't remember. Just kidding, of course, it's the Pistons. So I for the Pistons,

without hesitation to the stage you take and Killian Hayes. So Hayes is, so I don't think, he's a player who's necessarily a sure thing, but I think that he could turn out to be a very good starting point guard for the Pistons. I don't think he's really, you know, we've gone over this, or we went over this in our player previews. I think point guard was, did we do point guards last or first? I think we did them last. Okay. Yeah. That was a, that was a third episode, the third and final episode of our draft previews. So I don't think Hayes will ever be a star point guard. I think he can be very solid kind of top 10 point guard, however, and that's, that's definitely a, a,

a worthy use, absolutely worthy use of number seven picks. So, hey, this is a guy who's athletic enough, not super athletic, but he's a pretty athletic guy. He's not a necessarily good shooter yet, but he's flashed glimpses of good shooting, like in the EuroLeague tournament near the end of this past season for him. He shot very well on good volume from three. He's got very good basketball IQ. He's a good passer.

He's very good in the pick and roll. role, maybe he has relied on the picking roll a little bit too much so far. He's got all the makings of an all-around game. Also, he's, you know, physically speaking, anthropologically speaking, he's got a good wingspan. He works on defense. He's just a hard worker in general. Apparently, you know, by all accounts, is just a good guy, hard worker. His main issue, he's got two main issues. Number one, he's still working out the flaws in this game, whether it be, you know, particularly in the realm of shooting. And it's not that he's a bad shooter. He just, isn't quite there yet.

He's not a guy you look at and say, uh-oh, like there's a major red flag, like FDA, for example, is it, is not a good free-drow shooter, and that's worrying. So Hayes doesn't have these issues. Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't Hayes an excellent free-throw shooter? Yep, upwards of 90%. Yeah. So, but Hayes's biggest issue because, you know, I'm personally fairly confident they'll

get this guy as a shooter. You got a guy with a good work ethic who's got the makings of a good shot and has had some success as a shooter on good volume. I think he can do that. issue, as we said in the player previews, is just that he is stupidly left-hand dominant. Like, it just still amazes me that none of his coaches along the line somewhere said, dude, you have to learn to play with your right hand. No exceptions.

We're just going to spend the off-season doing this, and you're going to get it right because it's a huge weakness. You have a guy who's just very predictable because you know he's going to go to his left-hand. Like, if you make him drive right and pass the ball, he will often just do it with his left-hand. Instead of just passing with his right, he will go to his left-hand. left and take a backhand pass and that's not accurate. It makes him prone to turning over the ball. But more just at the EuroLeague level, you can still,

and at pretty much any level, the NBA is just such a different beast as far as how teams will play you. And the level of competition, of course, is sky high. At the NBA level, if you have that kind of weakness where you know, oh, well, this guy can only pass and shoot with this, you know, you can only pass and you can only finish the pass with this left hand. You say, okay, well, we'll just make minor. tweaks to our defense and we'll put a good defender on him and just tap them, just make him

drive right. And then suddenly your player is playing it like two-thirds effectiveness and that just can't happen. So that's the primary concern about Killian Hayes. I think it is a risk worth taking. So he's the player. If he's on the board, I'm not even thinking. I'm, you know, I'm calling his name immediately at number seven. And I do believe he'll be on the board because I don't think there's any team for which he really, for whom you, for which, excuse me, he really makes sense in the first six picks. Right. I'm going to respond to Killian Hayes,

but I have a different pick, so I'll do both of those. My thing with Killian is, I'm so up and down on Killian because sometimes I believe he can get his shot together, and then there are other times where I feel like there are those glaring issues

with his game. Teams will absolutely game plan. If there's a weakness, your primary ball handler can only drive one way, they're absolutely going to game plan that. and if your primary ball handler, which would be Killian Hayes, if he gets taken by the Pistons, is neutralized that hard.

That's going to lead to some serious issues with your offense. I know that he is working on it. Like every interview that I've watched of his where they talk about, like, what are some things in your game that you want to fix? He always immediately says, he's like, I want to work on my right hand. I need to learn how to be more versatile. And that's huge because in the NBA, if you're that predictable, they will stop you. There's no room for error. He wasn't even playing that well when he was in the Euro League or the French League.

He played a lot better in the weaker German League. And he played on a pretty mid-tier team that admittedly did do a lot worse when he opted to not return to play when the German League came back. But his, like you said, his free throw shooting is really good. and that is typically a pretty good indication of whether a player is for real with their jump shot. He's only averaged over two years, I think 30%. His time in France in the French leagues, he was not good at all. Like he only shot, I think, 20% from threes. But then when he went to the German league, he boosted that all the way up to 40%.

And he wasn't taking the easiest shots either. Some of his threes were like these stepback threes. and that's part of the intrigue with him. If that stepback three is for real, that's a really, really great move to have in your arsenal. That's like one of the toughest shots to guard. On the other hand, if it's not for real, like he comes to the greatest league in the world,

then he can't get that shot off and their game planning him, forcing him right. I mean, I don't think he will reach his reasonable ceiling at all or his projected ceiling at all. I think his ceiling is maybe a top 15 point guard. And at this range, yeah, that's a, that's a good building block for a future championship team, but I don't know that he has, like, star potential.

He has good handles. He's got good size for a point guard. His vision is really good, but he needs to get those passes off with two hands. So I would not go with Killian A's. My pick is more of a safe pick, which I know people don't want to hear, but I'm going to go with Devon Vassell.

And I'm saying Vassel because I think, His game has probably one of the best chances in terms of shooting and guard play of transferring or translating, rather, to the NBA. Because what he is is pretty much pure 3-D. He doesn't do a whole lot of ball handling. He's just a 6-foot-6 long wingspan guard out of Florida State with a gorgeous jumper. Shoots from the top of his head. He's adding a little bit more to his scoring arsenal. And after two years of Florida State shooting upwards of 41 percent, I believe in a number. is shot. And I think that in today's NBA, you can't have too many guys who have decent size, really good team defense, and a really good shot that's going to be hard to stop.

I think that the Pistons are nowhere near done with this rebuild, and they shouldn't be. They should be trying to get worse picks. Like the Pistons kind of got screwed by the fact that the season was cut off because we probably would have had top three odds, or top five odds, rather, if the season had finished out, just because after we traded Drummond and Jackson and Morris, pistons were absolutely terrible. And I think the pistons intend on being pretty terrible for the next at least two years. I'd be disappointed if they signed on, like, Fred Van Vleet and kind of derailed that process of, you know, building from scratch. But I'm going to have to go with Vasse. I think there are going to be better players in the next two drafts that are getting a lot more hype

than this draft. I think getting a good role player who will make his teammates better is more valuable right now than a question mark point guard who I don't think has a very, very high ceiling and has fairly substantial bust probability. What do you think? I mean, I think Vassell will be a good pick for whoever takes him. I just think at this point the Pistons need to gamble on a guy who can actually create offense for himself because that's, I mean, that's just an area in which the roster is incredibly weak.

The Pistons need a lead guard. I mean, if you look at 2021 also, I mean, you've got Kate Cunningham, of course, who you know, can probably play any between one and four, but I believe,

I'm not quite as up to date on the 2021 plus. I believe the guy primarily plays point guard. He's another very, very tall point guard. But if the pistons are not getting, if the pistons are picking in the, in the upper part of that draft, beyond that, it's a lot of it's just guys who are, who are wigs. You know, a lot of shooting guards in small forwards, guys who could be, you know, who could be very good. So I think looking forward to next draft, I mean, if you're select, unless you just get very, the pistons are bad and get very lucky and are there to select Kate Cunningham.

I mean, you just, you don't really, just next year's draft isn't very strong. them at this point. I mean, that's, of course, absolutely subject change. But at this point, next year's draft isn't looking too strong for point guard. So that's another thing. But really, pretty much, I'm just focusing on this year. You just, you never know what next year's pick is going to be. And I think if the Pistons have a shot of the guy who can potentially be that point guard of the future and do a good job. And I don't think it'll be a star, but if you get a top 10 point guard, I mean, it's just a very important building block. And if, if, if Devon were a guy who could, you know, had some capacity to create offense for others as well. I would feel differently.

But at this point, he just doesn't really have that. So I'd more go with the guy who can create offense for himself, great offense for others, who can be one of your lead ball handlers. Right. All right. So we've gotten to the Pistons. A lot of you will remember that at the trade deadline, very shortly before the trade deadline, there was talk. of a trade of Luke Conard to the Phoenix Suns, and it actually got into the advanced stages of discussion before falling apart over the protections that the Suns were demanding.

Now, unusually, we don't actually know what those protections were. I think if the Pistons, I hate to put it this way, nobody likes to hear this. I think if the Pistons were a more significant team, you know, we're more, just more significant team on the national level,

somebody would have really done, into this and made sure that we knew exactly what those protections were. Of course, maybe that wouldn't be possible, but I think it's likely we probably would have known. But we don't know what those protections were. It's possible the suns were saying, oh, we wanted lottery protected. I think that's incredibly unlikely because the pistons would have laughed at them. Also, the sons at that point, I think were like in 20th place. So they were right around where they ended up.

So I have to, I'm guessing that could be absolutely not really wrong about this. I'm guessing the protections were high out that the sons didn't want to risk their season. and I know they wanted to make the playoffs. They didn't want to risk their season going in a different direction or maybe them just jumping in the lottery into the top three and risking a pick for the sake of Blue Carnar, which makes perfect sense to me. But I think it's likely that they were just kind of protecting higher up in the draft.

The Sons went in and had their miracle bubble run, which was a little deceptive because I think two-thirds of the teams they played were either missing key players or missing. Or they were the wizards who were not really a bubble team. They were missing all of their key players. So the son's got some really good luck in terms of injuries and injuries and just general outuses, the opposition. Not saying they didn't play well, but they, I mean, they wouldn't have done what they

did if they, if not, excuse me, if not for a lot of good fortune. But I think the fact that they almost made, they almost made into the playoffs may actually motivate them further to look to a win-now trade. Now, the reports at the deadline were that they were looking at Luke as a big minute, kind of high-volume 6th man. That's the role that I've wanted him to play for the pastons for two seasons now. I think he could do well there. And I think, you know, I think, like I said, I think the fact that they do well in the bubble could motivate them further to look for a win-now sort of guy rather than trying to build somebody through the draft. I wouldn't if I were them. You know, if Vassel were there, for example, at number 10,

I would say, you know, hell yeah, we're taking him right away. But Pistons have a couple things working for them, number one, as we saw last year in the draft. I mean, James Jones, who had no pedigree of any kind in management, is, you know, he didn't do the greatest job in his first draft. What he did is a little puzzling. And also, the Pistons have double agents, not actually, but Jeff Bauer. Jeff Bauer, a lot of you might not actually know his name. He was the titular GM under Stan Van Gundy. He actually, Stan Van Gundy, said, did all the GM work during the season.

So, like, the trade for Tobias Harris and whatnot. I mean, granted, that was deposited at the piston's feet by a complete idiot in Brock Henigan, who was the GM of the Magic at the time. You know, that was Jeff Bauer. I don't think he really deserves much credit for it. If he said, you know, who knows? I don't know. What we do know is it is a terrible director.

It's awful. and not particularly confident, competent, excuse me, like during his time with the, with the Pelicans, I think there were Hornets back then, he was just completely and utterly awful as a drafter. So I think the Pistons have that going for them.

So we'll just proceed on with this draft with the, under the scenario that the Pistons do trade Luke Kinnard for that number 10 pick. I like Luke. I just, I don't think, I think if the Pistons are going to be going through like a two or, you know, two or three year rebuild.

He doesn't fit the time. I'm concerned about his injuries. Apparently, these sons were not, I guess. So, and for the record, I don't think the sons were picking him for the sake of the playoff push because we at that point had been out for more than a month and I had no return dates and he wouldn't actually return for, his date of return was the next game after the season ended. So six weeks after the trade deadline.

In any event, so let's move on with that. So that's number eight. Yep, that's the Knicks. Yeah, take it away. All right, so with the assumption that the Pistons take Hayes at number seven, I'm picking the, I'm picking Vassel for the Knicks. The Knicks have similar problems to the Pistons in that they kind of haven't prioritized shooting over the last few years. RJ Barrett, not a great shooter.

Alfred Payton, if he's still even there. Dennis Smith, Jr., a lot of these guys are just not shooters. So I think the Knicks need shooting. Just like I mentioned, Vassell is just a guy who is going to space the floor, provide great team defense, and he's just a building block for the future. The Knicks are not a piece away. They're not two pieces away. They just need guys who can help set a defensive culture and can make their team better.

And I feel like the Knicks kind of, at the eighth spot, I feel like that's just the best player available easily. So I'm going to go with Vassel at the 8th spot and not go too much into it because we already kind of explained Vassel. Yeah, you see, just like with the Cavs for me, this is like, oh, it's the Knicks. And the Knicks were still desperate to find their next good ball handler and are not a competent team. So if I'm the Knicks, I'm going with Cole Anthony, the flashy athletic guy. Like you said, they're obsessed with that. You know, they're obsessed with the Luddicism, which makes, you didn't say that. I didn't say that.

You said they didn't go with shooters, and that's true. It's true. They've managed to get a bunch of guys who are not good shooters. If they were to draft, you know, in a funny scenario, they were draft Lamello. They could technically feel a five-point-garde lineup, and none of them would be able to shoot. So for them, I think they're just still obsessed with finding that flashy primary bow and over the offense. I think that's what the Knicks are about. I think they would take a hometown boy.

That's Cole Anthony, who has potential. I wouldn't take him if I were them. If I were the Knicks, I would, oh, geez, this is just, I'm having such trouble. separating myself from like the, from like the endless mess that is the Knicks and just saying, who would I take? So,

uh, I think the Knicks would take either Anthony or O'Coro, probably Anthony, because they, because they just drafted R.J. Barrett. I think they would like O'Coro for his athleticism and his, uh,

in his potential two-way game. But I think, uh, RJ Barrett will probably be playing, you know, be your primary wing, you know, play small forward for a long time.

I don't think they really would for O'Core. So if I were them, I would take Anthony. Yeah, I could see them taking Anthony too. But because one, Anthony is from New York. They need a point guard. I think Anthony does have a very high ceiling. But I think that's a risky pick for the Knicks. He could just be another one of those, like, players that the Knicks have been drafting,

where it's like he has a questionable shot, but he has a really high ceiling. And then they don't seem to have the personnel or just whatever it is. They just don't seem to be able to get any of their guys to, like, their season. feeling and I think they could really use a guy who's more of I guess sure thing in that case what I would say though is I don't think that they would draft RJ and then Bissell because I think I think as much as the Knicks and this is I think larger thanks to Dylan and to James Dolan who's arguably the worst owner in the league I think that's that they've been rebuilding but I think the guy still wants to win like stat if he can so it's like

Like if we can draft the player, you know, I think he seems to basically have one foot on both sides of the line. Like, yeah, let's rebuild. But, you know, if we can't find that guy who can help us win right now, let's do it. So I think that if they have the choice between bundling Barrett with Anthony or with Vassel, I think they would go with Anthony just because the two of them would probably be a significantly better fit if things worked out. And that's a big if. Yeah, if things work out, yes, I agree with you. think that Anthony is a risk

and I do like him. Like I really liked him like I think I had him fifth on my board because I really do believe that like he was a product of his or his numbers and percentages at UNC were a product of his horrible. I feel bad at the same, but like his teammates just were not good.

And he didn't have, he didn't have shooters around him and he didn't have like a highly athletic center to help him out in the picking rules. Like he was doing a lot of the work himself. And in that sense I like, I believed in Anthony because, like, when I watched his game, I was like, well, he can't get to the hoop because he's got two non-spacing guys crowding the paint. He can't kick it out because he's only got one shooter on the floor with him.

He's just, he has to do it all himself. I think people kind of like unnecessarily dogged Anthony. But I would still go with Vesel. I think I still like Vesel more than Anthony in this case. Gotcha. All right. Moving out to number nine. That would be the Washington Wizards.

and at this point if I'm the Wizards, I'm unhesitatingly taking a Kongwu. So I don't, I think, like a lot of people have compared a Kongwood of Bam. I think I've said this in our draft previews. I think it's an extremely lazy comparison. I think it's largely done on the basis of, oh, look at these guys. They're both really densely built, somewhat undersized at center, and it's good at defense. I mean, there's a lot that makes Bam special. that makes him more than just a just a traditional center traditional centers who are increasingly just a liability in the league because shooting and spacing and just all in general is so important.

Bam is not only a fantastic defender at the NBA level, which is very different from the NCAA level. Very, very, very, very different. And he's not only that, but he's much more than an offense than a traditional center in offense by means of his spacing in his offensive IQ. So it's so, but, you know, nonetheless, of Kongwu is, I would say, the ultimate safe pick

in this year's draft. Because you'll probably get exactly what you see out of him, which is that, yeah, he is very athletic. He is a multi-positional defender. You can definitely switch.

And you'll probably be a good interior score. And he's a hard worker. So this is a guy who you can take and you can be reasonably certain that you'll probably get a good, you know, a respectable starter out of the bargain. Now, the risk with him,

of that he will never learn to shoot and he has no pedigrees a shooter if not. He attempted to a mid-range offense at USC and it's one and only are in the NCAA without much success. So you're taking the risk that he'll never be able to shoot and if you couldn't, if you can shoot, great. He's a lot more useful.

His ability to create offense is basically at this point limited to post game and that post game you know, you can do it in the NCAA by bullying guys who were smaller just less talented than you. And the NCAA in the NBA post offense is not really a viable. It's not really, it's slow-paced and it's not particularly efficient, unless you're very good at it like Joelle Embed or Yokic,

I believe Towns, that could be wrong. Well, Marcus Aldrich. There are very few guys who can pull off post-offence as a reliable form of offense. But nonetheless, for the Wizards, I mean, you've got Thomas Bryant, who's no slouch, and he has a fairly good offensive center. But at Kongwu, I think, Bryant is just not the greatest defense. defenders. And it's just not the greatest fit as the starting center. He's a great guy for your backup center. So I think that's, and in a Congo could be a good guy, a very good guy in the pick and roll.

You know, he rolls very strongly to the basket. He's got great verticality and making me a good fit with John Wall if he comes back. So the shooting would be real nice to have at center next to John Wall. Right. Because John Wall can't really shoot. Nonetheless, I think this is the pick that the Wizards would take pretty much without hesitation at number nine. I think, I think you were right exactly. I think it be O'Kongwu. I don't, if I was a Wizards fan, I would not be super happy with it, but I'd still, I'm still making that pick, though. Like, I agree with you. I think it would be O'Kongwu. A lot of Pistons fans really want Okunwoo. They see him being like a Ben Wallace type, like, pure defense, really hard worker, like the anchor type guy. I don't think that's as valuable in

the NBA as it was, no, I'm not saying. I think it's just, it's not as valuable as it. it was when Ben Wallace was around and playing in the league. Okongwu, even if he's providing great defense on one end, he can't step away from the basket on the other or else he's just going to be standing alone. And then his man is going to be like at least one foot in the paint, like ready to provide help defense. And that's like the main difference between Bam and Akongwu.

If you watch these playoffs, you've seen that like Bam spaces the floor despite having no jumper. And he does that. with his passing. O'Conwu doesn't have, like, he hasn't shown any of that type of passing. We saw, like, Drummond learned how to do this a little bit before the Griffin trade. This was another casualty of the Griffin trade. As soon as Griffin came, this budding passing game that Andre had where he had these, like, nice pocket passes, and he was actually, like, pulling guys out of the paint. That went away pretty much immediately. And I just don't think,

I don't have, it's not a risk that I want to take saying that Okongwu could make those passes. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I mean, I'll say about Drummond. Yeah, he had, he was situational, situationally, excuse me, useful as a passer. I never thought he was particularly good because he was extremely turnover prone. And there were only some passes he could make.

Also, the guy was just awful at handling the ball, whereas Bam has some ability to move with the ball. The thing about Bam is just that he knows where to pass. The guy just has an instinctive knowledge of where to be on both ends, like at all times. If he's, you know, yeah, he is a good passer. He knows where to go after he passes. he knows where to go if he's not passing.

So he just, he has value on offense. He manages to have a good degree of value on offense despite the fact that he can't shoot. So as far as, you know, as far as that comp, I mean, I think you could say, and I've seen, you know, plenty of people say, oh, you could, he could develop like them. It's like, it's true, he could,

but the chances are that he won't because hardly anybody does. Right. Yeah, as far as comps to Ben Wall, I know that, you know, this is just kind of like a minor thing, but Ben Wallace, you know, Prime Ben Wallace, number one, was about 13 years ago. He really started to fall off after the 2006-2007 season, which is his first with the Bulls. It's easy to look back, you know, pet at that gap and forget just how good the defense Ben Wallace was. I would say pretty unhesitatingly that there's nobody in the league right now who's like him on defense. and say arguably he could be even more valuable these days as a defender

just because he can switch on anybody like anybody anybody especially because they're you know with the exception of mb there aren't really there's no shack in the league there's no yow ming in the league there aren't like these hulking centers who could provide you know an issue for him because there's so much bigger than he is the centers have been trending down in size they've been getting they've been getting thinner and more mobile basically i mean mb is isn't is an exception of this a guy who somehow managed to play good defense he's been getting he's been getting despite being pretty darn big.

But in terms of a league that prize is getting good assignments, you know, getting switches onto players that can be beaten in isolation, they're not going to beat Prime Van Wallace in isolation. He's probably as fast, you know, barring like the quickest point guards in the league, he's going to be about as fast as you are. I mean, even against these point guards, his defensive IQ, which is amazing. It's probably enough to enable him to stay ahead of you somehow. he's just fantastic at playing health defense.

I mean, a guy like a Kongwu, even Bam is, you know, he's a great defender. To how well does he compare to Ben Wallace? I don't think he'll ever be as good as Brian Ben Wallace. Very, very, very, very, very few guys will ever be as good on defense as Brian Ben Wallace. So you can look at at Kongu and say, oh, he could be our Ben Wallace. I say the answer is no. I mean, unless this guy just surprises everybody by becoming this offensive defensive mastermind, that's not going to happen.

There's also the fact, like you said, that Ben Wallace would not be as valuable in today's NBA because he was an offensive liability. I mean, a guy, in addition to being a heinously bad free throw shooter, was just not a good offensive player. Maybe that would be different in today's NBA, you know, in today's league because he wasn't asked to do much on offense back then, and that was okay. And he somehow managed to be, you know, a great player despite being, you know, almost absent on offense.

But, yeah, I just, I object to any comparisons to Ben Wallace by the likes of the Congo. I just, I don't think that's, I don't think that's valid at all. Right. So, okay, moving on to number 10. All right. So this would be that hypothetical Luke Kinard traded to Phoenix. We get their 10th pick. And in this case, I would take Cole, Anthony. I think he's a risk worth taking at number 10. The Pistons, like you said, we do need a point guard. We've already got one. We've already got one. But I still think that Killian Hayes could be a combo guard, shooting guard.

I think Cole could still be that primary ball handler because I don't think he's as good off ball. but I don't think there's a real issue with taking two point cards to start. And if both of them are good, or you feel like there's too much of a logjam, you trade one of them away, you hope you can get decent return back. I think the risk is just worth taking at this point. The Pissons don't need, we're not, we don't have, like, a time crunch because there's no player on our roster right now who's, like, got a short window besides Griffin, but I don't consider him a part of the future anyway. So I would happily take Cole Anthony.

My ideal draft would still be Vesel at 7, make this trade, and then I'd say Cole Anthony for the point guard duties. But even then, like, I don't think we need to be in the biggest hurry to fill out the ball handling role. We can still just sign like a mid-tier, almost out of the league point guard, and just coast on that position for a year or two while we wait for a better option through the draft, but I would still, in this case, disregard the fact that we already have Killian Hayes in this mock and just take Cole Anthony because I think he, I think he has the

higher ceiling over Killian Hayes, and I think he's just the bigger risk, and I think that risk is just worth taking at 10. Who would you take? I would not take Co. Anthony no, that much, and that's because, you know, on paper, I would say, you know, sure, but, you know, on paper, you, you know, exclusive of any other factors, you might look at it, I think, and say, well, it'd be good to have two and maybe one works out. I think that inherently, if you're trying to develop two-point guards at once, you're distracting away from being able to develop either of them fully, and also they're going to know they're competing against each other, and that's not always the greatest thing. But I think also just, yeah, if you're trying to develop that ball handler, you don't want to be splitting your attention.

So I'm going to get my 1A and 1B here. I know that's kind of a cop-out. Isaac O'Coro, I know we both kind of panned him because his offense is not a sure thing. At number 10, in this draft, I would take a flyer on him, I think. The guy, you know, defense will always be helpful. Of course, you don't want to short sell his defense. That's helpful to have them, you know, multi-positional defenders who said, especially, you know, as it gets more and more in the playoffs about switches and just having those guys out there, you know, who are able to

handle several positions on what in place. playoffs becomes an isolation, isolation-heavy offenses. He's very athletic, and if he puts it together and he has a good shot, he can become a very good three-indie. I wouldn't want to, if the Pistons had only one pick, I would not want them to risk it on him because it's like, I just do not risk. You're your only first-round bad draft pick,

or even if you have two of them, you're higher for a first-round draft pick and a guy who may not ever pan out as a shooter. But if we're going at number 10, he's a guy who's super athletic, he's a good defender. He could, you know, he's got kind of elementary ability, at this point. I mean, he could develop a new guy who could attack off the dribble to a degree, and if you can shoot, great. You've got your small forward of future. Fantastic. So it goes against a fair amount of my own philosophy in a way. Yeah, at number 10,

if he were available, I would take him. My 1B would be Neismith, who, you know, if the Pistons haven't drafted Devin Bissell, he's a, sorry if he's been mispronouncing Bacill, I'd never remember this vassal or Bacill. In any event, Neismet's a great, you know, is a great, you know, was a great shooter in college. But he has his questions in the NBA level in terms of athleticism and health. And it's almost kind of like, you know, Luke Kinnard, sure he's not that big and he can't play small forward. But he's already on the team. And, you know, if you're confident enough about his injuries, I mean, he's a guy who can handle the ball pretty well, you know, pretty well.

And he's a good shooter and so on and so forth. That just kind of, yeah, it's the lack of athleticism. And I think the questions about injuries that's that drive me away from, from Nathan's. with the bits. And also, I'm kind of with the pistons, it's like, you know, like, you know, please just, even if O'Coro has his, has his warts, you know, if we're picking number 10, we've already had a, you know, pick at number seven, I would like to take the guy who I think has the higher ceiling and I think that's Okoro.

Yeah, I can understand that, that reasoning at number 10, but I just get such Stanley Johnson vibes from Okoro. And by all accounts, Socorro is, like, a much harder worker and, like, better attitude guy and, like, does all the intangibles, as opposed to Stanley. And really, the reason I make that comp is because they're both, like, stronger wings who were supposed to be really good at getting to the basket, and their shot was just supposed to come along at some other point. And Stanley's nearly out of the league,

and I think there's a very good chance that Okoro's not in the league a few years from now. I think the NBA values shooting a lot more. And you mentioned earlier how you think it would be Topin or Okoro who drops, and I think it's going to be O'Coro. We saw this last year with Nasir Little, who was kind of a similar player makeup as Acoro. And he was like just that athletic wing

who was supposed to, you know, kind of put it all together. And he hasn't really done that for Portland yet, but Portland picked him up at 25 and at 25. And you just, you take what you can be out. 25, you don't care. Right. I feel like, 10 is a little bit high for Akoro.

I wouldn't want him there. As far as Neesmith goes, I think that's another good option. Like you said, I think he shot like 50% on threes, which is insane. It was an amazing shooter. Yeah. And if he didn't have those injury concerns, he might be out of the piston's reach, honestly.

But it really does come down to the injuries for me as to why I would pass him up. But I think I would still take Neesmith over Akoro. I mean, you look at the heat, and this will transition us to our next topic. You look at the heat, but Duncan Robinson. Right. I mean, and this is a guy who's not athletic at all and is made highly effective just by the fact that he's an incredible shooter in a system that works for him. Like Duncan Robinson, I believe, was around 70% true shooting this year, which is completely ridiculous for a guy who is not a center, which would be amazing even for a center. And so, yeah, I mean, if you can get a knee-smith to play like that, of course, a lot of what's made Robinson so effective is the heat, both their ability to develop players.

I mean, they're the best of the business of that. And Spolster being such a good coach, too, as he was just excellent at maximizing the strengths and minimizing the weaknesses in his players. like Spolstra, who is set to coach in his fourth finals now, is, you know, was really underrated, I think continues to a degree to be underrated, but just because of, just because he started with, you know, arguably at that point, possibly the greatest team ever assembled just in terms of talent. I think they were definitely superseded by the Warriors when Kevin Durant arrived, but LeBron, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosch, and Spolster was coaching those guys, and it's like, you know, whatever. anybody could win with those guys. And two knows, I don't think he really even came into his elements with that team because he just didn't have the ability to. I mean, LeBron is going to be LeBron.

And that's just a lot of star power. And it's hard as a fairly inexperienced coach to really be able to, you know, to exert your vision upon your roster in that case. But ever since, I mean, I think he's one of the best coaches in the NBA. He's just, I think he's just a super innovative. highly adaptive and just overall strong coach on both ends. And that's played, I believe, a large role in Miami being able to put together the run that they have. I don't think many people would have picked Miami to be in the finals.

I really like Miami as a team because not just because they're super well-coached. because they're just a hardworking team. I think that's thanks to both Pat Riley, who somehow managed to make this work. Because at the beginning of the season, he had a roster that was just saddled with a bad contract. Yep. So thanks to bolster to Pat Riley,

this is a team that is much more than the sun of its parts, and I think that's very difficult to pull off. But, yeah, that's where we are right now. As of the recording of this episode, this is the day after the heat defeated the completely lost-looking Celtics in game six of the Eastern Conference Finals. So, yeah, let's just transition and talk a little bit about the finals. I'm just going to come out straight out and say it, and maybe the Heat will make idiots

to me. I don't think they match up very well against the Lakers. I think the East really just didn't go as expected. I mean, the Raptors, it would have been the Raptors against the Heat, if not. not for Pascal Seaccom, just completely falling off whatever. He had a terrible series against Celtics, just awful. I don't think the Celtics really ever that good. I mean, it hurt that they lost Gordon Hayward, who had an awesome regular,

awesome well, maybe not as silly compared to his price, but for the role he was asked to play, he was very good, very good the regular season, at 17 and a half points in almost 60% true shooting. And it really hurt that they didn't have him at 100%. but the Celtics, it was just isolation. In the fourth quarter, like especially as it went down to the crunch time, isolation, isolation, isolation, you know, we're going to give the ball to Brown, or we're going to give the ball to Tatum, we're going to give the ball to Walker.

And if it's Brown or Tatum, both drive in and get stopped and then turn around and take this awful post jumper. Or if it's Kemba, he'll just, you know, do his best at the basket. And it made me think less of Brad Stevens. But also, like, there were just points, certainly, the points particularly against the heat and certainly in game six, like down the stretch, just a soft fall apart, completely fall apart. So the Raptors really didn't come through as expected. The Celtics didn't come through as expected.

The Sixers, of course, were screwed from the very beginning, losing Simmons. So I think that helped the heat get out at the east. Not to mention the box. I like them, I'll be rooting for them, but I don't think they're going to win. Yeah, I was surprised at the bucks. I thought they were going to go to the barnets this time.

Well, that's Janus. Yeah, I knew I was forgetting somebody. Yeah, Janus getting injured, that's a big problem for that team. That's the one thing that team cannot, just cannot, they cannot weather Janus getting injured. Right, that, and, I mean, they just, there was no variety in their offense. There's like, if their three,

if their three-point shots weren't falling, it was just nothing they could do. And, like, Janus, they did a good job stopping honest, whoever it was that eliminated them. I don't even remember who it was, but Janus was just not as effective that series. He was having trouble. That was the heat, I believe.

It was the heat. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah, first round seems like a long time ago. It really does. But yeah, no, I think, I guess I'll ask you this. You might have already touched on this, but Lakers versus Heat, who do you got? I just said, I don't think that the Heat can beat the, I don't think the Heat can beat the Lakers.

Right. I don't think, I think it was easy for them to, I think it was easier for them to get out of the East because of those factors, because Yanis went down. because the Celtics just kind of because the Raptors sort of fell apart, or Seacan fell apart and then the Celtics sort of fell apart. I don't think the heat or not bad team by any means I really like them.

I just, I think that's, I don't think that they have the sort of caliber team that's going to be the Lakers. Who knows, maybe it could be a situation where it's like the 2004 pistons, you know, and I know it's been brought up and respond, you know, with regards to the heat and having no stars. I don't like the comparison. I know you don't either, but, you know,

It could be something where it's like, oh, yeah, who knows? Maybe I'll give them no chance and they'll end up handling the series, but I don't know that's going to happen with LeBron and AD on the other team. Yeah, I'll say this is just pure editorial here. People are, like, upset or they don't want the heat to win. And, like, because they're getting these 04 Pistons' comps, and in terms of, like, the play style and, like, the individual, like, point guard versus point guard, yeah, there's really not a lot of similarities there.

I think people are more alluding to the DNA. but I don't like that it's going to be heat versus Lakers. I really would have preferred for Denver to make it and win at all because they've been, like Jamal Murray and Yokic have just been so much fun to watch. But I guess one way you could look at it is the O4 Pistons, they get a lot of respect for what they did. And for people to mention them with this heat run kind of speaks to the amount of respect that they get. as like a team who wasn't supposed to have a shot, and they proved everybody wrong.

And in that sense, I can kind of appreciate the comps. I kind of liked having the Pistons be the team that, you know, they were the ones who did that. That was like our thing. But Miami's culture has been like a well-known thing where, like, they pushed those guys so hard in terms of the training. And you can see now that it's really paying off. And I guess that's something that, you know,

we're seeing the value in it again with this more balanced league where, like, nobody, there's no true super team. I think these playoffs have been so much fun compared to previous years. But, uh, but, uh, it's, it's just, it's another one of those things. It's just, you gotta take it as, uh, as a compliment. And now, that's, I think I'm going to have to root for my, I just, I don't want to see any more Laker championships. I have friends in L.A. They're going to laugh at me.

I mean, they were already, like, cloning me for, like, the Pistons performance this year. And it's like, whatever. We're, we're doing what I wanted us to do and starting from scratch. But, yeah, no more. Laker Championships. Miami has three. I'd prefer they get four as opposed to the Lakers getting number 17. Yeah, I'd like to see the heat win. And, you know, I'm not going to lie. There is part of me that it's like, you know, I want the Pistons to be the only team that has won a championship like this. that said, I don't think the comparison is really apt. I mean, I think, I think, I think BAM if he

continues on this level will be an all-MBA player next season. Jimmy Bowers and all-Inda player this season. I know the Pistons had Chonsie Billis was an all-MBA player during that time. but I think it's not the same sort of balanced team. I mean, you don't have like Ben Wallace plus four guys who can exploit the 30 points and then even nights. Jimmy Butler is the clear leader of that team. Duncan Robinson is there to shoot threes. Tyler Heroes coming alive. The other heroes coming alive.

And it's like it's just a testament both with Robinson and Harrow's the testaments to spolster's coaching on defense that he has managed through his own defense to avoid situations where either of them get, where teams are able to isolate upon what the Harrow or Robin's. and a typical defense would be like, okay, we'll just get a switch on the Tyler Harrow with Jason Tatum, and it's like, good luck. So sorry, Tyler Harrow, you're a good shooter, but you're going to get absolutely torched by a guy who is way bigger, way stronger, and way more explosive than you are. So like I said, it's just the testament to Eric Spelster's coaching.

I mean, if you were to award coach of the year, you know, coach of the playoffs, I think, you know, there would be no points in even thinking about it any further at this point. He's not going to get out coached by friends. and Vogel. But just in, yeah, just the team makeup is different. It's not really the same sort of very, you know, egalitarian team. They're hard workers, absolutely. They've worked hard. They play an absolutely team first game. But it's just, it's just different. I mean, Jake Crowder is, I believe, is starting. He's, I don't even know what to classify him, but it's just, it's, you know,

with respect to the comparison of the 2004 Pistons, but it's just different. I don't think it's similar in any respect beyond that this is just the team's team, who managed to be more than the sum of their cards. But the issue is that just the star power for the Lakers, and it's put it this way, I mean, LeBron, arguably the greatest player of all time, Anthony Davis, very, very good player. The Lakers are deep. They're very athletic team with good defenders.

And I just think that the heat are going to get out, star power. They really haven't. You look at their path, at their path. through the east. I mean, Miami, excuse me, Indiana, which is missing Sabanis. He was a big part of their offense. The two, you know, Sabanis is the reason he was an all-star. He's a big part of their offense.

So that was a big loss for them, playing against the Bucks who were really, you know, Giannis was injured for most of the series, and his supporting cast was not good, particularly Middleton, but, you know, Bledso took a complete and out. He was absolutely dumb for the second postseason in a row. Yep. and then playing against the Celtics who were sort of short Gordon Hayward, but also the Celtics are still a young team.

It's easy to forget that Tatum's still in his third season, Brown is in his fourth season. I mean, sure, that's where you hope you can win championships to guys like that, but they're a young team. You have Kemba there. Kemp had did not have a good playoffs. He was completely hot and cold. And Gordon Hayward was only around for a few games, really.

And was nowhere near 100%, you could tell. and the Celtics were also just I mean their rotation was quite short you expect that in the playoffs the Lakers the Lakers play a pretty deep rotation Miami Miami I think deeper than

deeper than the Celtics I believe but yeah I just I just don't see that they'll have much of an answer for both Dady and LeBron at the same time Butler has been kind of you know he's got the best shot of stopping LeBron you're going to have to put out of bio on Davis

and I just hate to put it this way I just, I think that they've got the depth and, and, uh, and the start talents, that's the heat don't. And I think it's, it's going to shine through in this case, because they have not played against the team that it's just like, wow, you have two, like, I don't know how you'd rate Davis. It's tough to, I find it tough to do top five in the NBA this year because you can make, you know, you've got a couple players you can say are always in the top five. And then beyond, like LeBron and Janus and, you know, I guess Kauai and beyond that, it gets a little hazy. But I'd say LeBron, I'd say without hesitation. I don't think anybody anywhere disagree with me in this. I'd say without hesitation,

I mean, LeBron and 80 are the best two scores in these, left in these playoffs. Yeah. And you could say they've been, you know, the best, well, I'd say the only two guys who really compared to them are Murray and the Okish. So, well, unless you want to look in the first round of the playoffs and Donovan Mitchell. So, yeah, I think, I just think that heep will be outmatched. I'm calling Lakers in five.

six maybe. I don't think that he will get swept. I don't think this is a team. I hate to like look at team ethos. I just don't think this is team will get swept. Right. I'm, I mean,

part of me is just looking at, you know that I love the evolution of the big man. I love like watching this stuff unfold. And for me, the most interesting matchup is probably going to be AD versus BAM because AD has just looked unstoppable at times in these playoffs. And then sometimes he just, I don't know,

he doesn't, I don't know if it's just like his impact is so quiet. he doesn't seem like he's there or what because like he always ends up getting like like even when you think he's had a bad game he ends up with like 28 and 10 on the other hand um bam has just been really really just such a good fit for uh the heat in these playoffs and uh i think it's going to i i'm interested to see what spolster does because he adjusted so well in the series against Boston. And I know that he knows that he is a much tougher challenge with the Lakers. So I think it's, I think it's going to come, I might even come

down to coaching because I don't think Vogel holds a candle to the, to Spolstra. He's done okay, but he's nothing special. Yeah. And there's, there's also going to be like the role players like Duncan Robinson, but I also think it's going to come down to guys like KCP, Danny Green, and even Rondo has been hitting a lot of threes in these series. So I don't think it's going to be that lopsided. I could be totally wrong. I mean, but I don't think, it could meet just my wishful thinking and me trying to, like, think of a way that the heat can make this, not the 17th Laker championship,

but I really do think that the heat have a shot here. What they've been doing is pretty special. They've been playing very, very hard. they play a lot faster. That was one of the issues with Denver. Yokic could not keep up in terms of, like, in transition with the Lakers and Anthony Davis, the heat can. Yeah, it's true. But on the other hand, I would say that Yokic provides a source of off.

Yolkich is unique, of course. I mean, you know, when you play against Yokic, it's, it's, a watch team play against Yokch. It's pretty irritating to see him get the ball. you know, in the post or on the wall block and, or even on the elbow and you go to double-team him and then suddenly, or you can even triple-team him if you want, and suddenly the ball is magically in the hands of a guy in the corner like on the other side of the court.

Or he'll do like the, the subonis, like, over the top of the head, just dump off into somebody cutting in the paint. It was, that where he does, like, the one dribble turnaround, shoots it straight over you. He was such a, he just wasn't as a great. Yeah, he just wasn't as aggressive in this series. Like, he wasn't trying to take the shots. I think they were intimidated by,

or intimidated or just, like, held back by the Lakers size. But they could have been more on down, too. I mean, this team had been basically playing every other night for a while. So, yeah, it's, yeah, it'll be a very different sort of series for the Lakers, but, yeah, I just don't think that he'd have the talent to do it. I hate, I absolutely hate to put it that way. But I just think that the scoring talent is going to be a little overpowering for the Lakers. So what would do your prediction for the series?

Jumps of games. I'll just say this. This probably sounds a lot like what they were saying in 2004. That might be part of it too. Yeah. I guess I would, I would, I guess I'll go heat in seven. That's just me being, that's partially me being optimistic, but I really do think that the heat have a shot.

All right. So we'll see. So we're going to move on to the last segment of this podcast, which is hating on the clippers. and trust me, at least for me, no, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon. I thought the Clippers had, at least going to the playoffs, and certainly thought they were the favorites to win just from the talent they had. And I started to get a little shaker on them,

but still thought they were the favorites, you know, after against the Mavericks. The Mavericks, you know, could have had if Porzenghis and the Hell, he could have won that series, I think. Never liked the Clippers. And here's why. I don't like Paul George. I think Paul George is the sort of guy who has really no fortitude as far as saying,

okay, this is where I want to win and I want to stay here and work hard for my team and really be a good team player and work for my teammates and do whatever it takes and play whatever role I need to. Now he's a guy who's super mercurial and flighty and just hops from team to team and seems to take very little responsibility and it just doesn't really seem to take anything seriously. Yeah, I know Dame agrees with you. Who's that? Dame Lillard.

That was so funny, but I agree with you. Like, he just didn't seem to have the mental, I don't know, like the fortitude, I guess, to just not let it get to him. Like, when his Instagram was getting flooded with, like, a lot of hate that, admittedly was kind of funny. He blocked his Instagram. Like, he, the mental. I don't blame him for that.

Right, yeah. I don't blame him for that. I think there's being a jerk. I think people could, it can just be jerks on, you know, on Instagram and the internet and general. I don't blame him for that, but it's like, but I do blame him. is that he just, he doesn't stand up and, you know, and, uh, he doesn't put his money where his mouth is, so to speak, and often his mouth just runs off, uh, and, and, and just says all sorts

of just stupid shit, but he's just, like, he's, he's a player who just seems very spineless, you know, he also wants to be highly respected, but he never wants to be the number one guy. And, uh, but it's like, like, I remember at the beginning of the season, uh, excuse me, last offseason went to you when he ended up on the on the clippers he's like oh he recorded this probably he's like oh yeah i've been i've been a fan of the clipper since i was a kid and it's like no dude you were a fan of the lakers and you set that and it's very clear and what you're saying now isn't true yeah just like when you got up on the stage at that you know in oklahoma city and said oh i want to stay here clearly that wasn't true yep and uh just the same way it forced this way out

of indiana for feeling no good reason so I just don't like the guy. I really don't. My opinion of Kauai dropped substantially over the course of the last two years. He's screwed over the Spurs, who were just the classiest organization, who I'm sure are trying to treat well. I mean, to this day, I mean, I don't think he really knows exactly what happens. I mean, the guy just decided that he just didn't want to deal with them anymore or something.

He just, he wouldn't communicate. He was just being, I don't know, I didn't really know what it would put it. It just seemed to be extremely childish. She completely destroyed his trade value by, by insisting on a trade of particular teams. And, yeah, if he forced his way out, and then last offseason, by all accounts, he was an incredible diva.

So, yeah, and, like, I think, I think it came out reasoned. I'm not sure if this has been confirmed that he told the Raptors that he didn't think they went to, you know, he didn't think they could win under the championship with them. Yeah, saw that report as well. Yeah. So my opinion of Kauai really dropped.

He completely choked in game seven, too. but uh both of them but yeah Patrick Beverly I just think I just think poorly of Patrick Beverly I have for a long time Patrick Beverly has no uh he's a dirty player uh he constantly runs his mouth uh you know and I just don't like the guy and um yeah so there's just plenty to dislike about that team

in retrospect their team construction is also pretty crappy I mean this isn't like a dismet or dislike the trade from Morris it's like trade for the guy, but you've got three ballstoppers in the same team, you know, in the starting lineup. He was terrible from the game seven also. He barely even noticed he was there. But as far as Paul George, yeah, I like his new nickname, way off P. I really, yeah, when he hit that side of the backboard, yeah.

I thought the clippers were going to go to the finals. I thought they had the best chance to win it all this year. Like, when you say that in hindsight, their roster construction was bad, I can't agree with that. I really thought they, like, in terms of like the modern NBA, building through strong wings and even though those two guys ended up choking, I thought, you know, the Clippers have proven themselves to be, like, in theory, a very good organization recently.

Like, they make good trades, they make good moves. I still don't like them. And, I mean, now you could say that five first-round picks for Paul George was a horrible move, but, like, man, how much is that going to hurt if those two players leave? They, I think they both can leave in a year. Yeah, they can. If they're two years plus player option.

We'll see what happens. Like, I really thought the Quippers would make it. I will say they were a team that had no primary ball handler. Yeah. These were guys, that was a flaw. They had two wings who can, you know, off the driving kick create offense for others. But they had no primary ball handler, and that turned out to really hurt. Like, their offense looked a little bit wonky because they had nobody who was just capable of, capable of leading an offense.

I think Reggie Jackson was starting a point card for them at one point in the playoffs. And he was easy. I mean, we've seen, yeah, we've seen that he. I think it was against the Mavericks. And we've seen, like, he's just not driving anymore. He can really only shoot. Yeah. I mean, well, the issue.

Yeah, go ahead. No, Pat Beavis, he's not. Well, he lost his athleticism. I mean, that was a cash with the hip's knee problems. Right. And getting to the basket became a lot harder for him. Yeah, and he was a really good pickup for, like, the minimum, which is what they ended up paying him.

But they asked him to do too much because they just didn't have a good primary ball handle. You and Pat Beb, who, I mean, he's tough. he plays defense, but he's just not a great passer, and he's not a great shooter either. Yeah, it looks like, I'm just looking at the stats. Yeah, they did, Brettie did play pretty heavy minutes against the Mavericks, but after that it tailed off and he... Yeah, because...

Yeah, Pat Bev was injured in that series. No, it was, okay, yeah. So he got DMPed in one game against the Nuggets, and then he came off the bench to play some great minutes for the Nuggets in game seven, which I mean that he came over, came out, and missed a few, you know, and the announcers were like, Reggie Jackson on the floor for the Clippers. And he came out and missed a couple shots and fucked up a couple times,

and that was the end of the season. He was a minus nine in four minutes. That's impressive. So, yeah, and I mean, that basically pretty much exactly spells out how poorly played in that very short span. I feel bad saying. I like Reggie now. You know, I think he, the, the pummeling he got early on,

you know, like in the second season with the Bistons, was completely justified because he was awful and egotistical. But he got just railed on in his last couple seasons, despite the fact that, you know, it wasn't really his fault at that point. His body just wasn't holding up. And he really had become a team player at that stage. So, but, yeah, I was, I was just glad to see the Clippers gone. It was a team that was, they were a team that was created by,

by Kauai being a diva, by Paul George forcing another trade. And they were just completely full of themselves with gigantic heads from the beginning. And they choked and they choked and they lost against a team that played a hard working team game. And I was just glad to see it happen. Yeah, I was just glad to see it happen. So, and yeah, the Clippers could be the most screwed team in the league if Paul

George and Kauai went her to leave. If they don't win the championship next season, it does. I don't think it's out of the question that PG and Kauai could leave and that would not make me unhappy. I do feel slightly bad for Dr. Rivers who is now the all-time choker in NBA playoff history

like pretty much without you know it's like without equivocation I mean the guys have just blown three three to one leads and I mean that's his that's not all on him and sure I'm pretty confident the Clippers would have won if they hadn't in this series

if PG and Kauai hadn't fucking terrible part of the language very very bad in game seven but they were and this coach has to stick some of the plan for his team's performance either way so yeah I was just I was very I'm in retrospect very relieved to see them not I was very believed to see them not make it any further here's my thing I don't think they would have gotten past the Lakers anyway I think they would have had a decent shot and that's why I kind of wanted them to meet up with the Lakers in the Western Conference finals because

if the Clippers win everything like if they won the championship, it's like nobody wins because there are no Clipper fans. Laker fans absolutely hate the idea of the Clippers winning, and that's really my driving motivation behind wanting the Clippers to win it all. I was able to look past my dislike for Kauai and Paul George because I wanted the Lakers to lose. But I guess at that point, it's just let's go heat now. Yeah, and definitely this is nobody.

expected this. I mean, some people thought it would be the Lakers and the Bucks, but I think that probably the primary, if I had to look up the odds, I'm pretty certain that they would say the odds on favorites for the finals with the Bucks and the Clippers, neither of them will be going there. Yep. And it's like you said, these playoffs have just been so much better. Absolutely. You know, for three years, it was basically... Formality.

Yeah, it was who will test the Warriors before they, even for the fourth year, even last year. It's like who will test the Warriors Oh, wait, that was three years, excuse me, 17, 18, 19. Who will test the Warriors before they inevitably win because they have an overwhelming amount of talents? And last year without the injuries, like, come on. The Warriors are winning that series.

Absolutely. You know, if they have, I'd say, certainly if Katie doesn't get injured, but even if Katie does get injured and Clay Thompson doesn't, I think they still win that series. So it's just been so refreshing. But I will say that being the bubble has played a role.

Do you think teams are going to come back from three to one down this easily without, you know, with home games, if they have to play games five and seven away, it's a lot harder. You know, it's a lot more difficult to play in that environment. So, I mean, the bubble obviously isn't, you know, nobody likes the fact that there had to be a bubble.

But I think it's, in a way, it's allowed for some unexpected things to happen. Yeah. Not having a home and away team. So in any event, this has definitely run pretty long. So we're going to call it quits now. Thank you all for listening, and we will catch you next time.