Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 204: Summer League So Far

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

This episode recaps 2025 NBA Summer League three games in.

Welcome back. Everybody, you're listening to another episode of Driving to the Basket. I'm Mike. Hope you're all doing great today. So recording this on Tuesday night, three games through Summer League. And you know what, I'm just going to make this kind of a summer league takeaways episode. If anything comes up, like the next two games, or though I don't know if this is actually possible at the moment, I guess it's technically possible. Because other teams could always lose. You know, if the Pistons. make it to the semifinals and then the finals it'll be six games. Otherwise, it's just five. The four scheduled games and then an additional one. And who knows who's actually going to play in games four and five. Often players will drop out, you know, particular notable players, rather will drop out after game three. And I don't think we're going to see anything that we haven't already seen. Who knows, maybe we'll see another gear from Ron Holland. I don't think so. If anything happens, that's unexpected, then I'll just cover it next episode. But if not, then this is kind of going to be the summer league takeaways episode.

So let's get rolling before I began a couple of errors actually I made in the last episode. One of them concerned the off-season roster limit, which I had said was 21 not counting two-ways. My mistake, it's actually during the off-season 21-counting two-way contracts. When it gets to the regular season, the roster limit is 15, and that does not include the three two-way contracts slots that are available to each team. Also, the second one was going to be that I think I said Ron Holland had averaged upwards of 20 points per game in the G league last season. And I glanced at the stats again and seen that it was 18 and a half and then realized because I just double-checked right now that the 18 and a half was in preseason. And he averaged actually 20.6 points per game. And the 14 games he played in the G-O-League regular season.

So I guess that wasn't a mistake after all. So in any case, let's move on to Summer League. And I'm going to start with the most important and most prominence in the one that, of course, everybody's talking about the most, which is Wendell Moore. Just kidding, Wendell Moore has booked every bit, like the player who has absolutely failed to find himself any NBA men's stall, despite being, well, I guess he was a late for a strong-pick,

but nonetheless, those guys usually at least get some run. And he has accomplished absolutely nothing in the NBA. As you all recall, the Timberwolves paid in the form of allowing the Pistons to move up in the draft to move up in the second round swapping from the 50s down to 37 in order to dump the $3 million or so on Wendell Moore's contract, which is a big deal for a team that's got a payroll as large as Minnesota's. In any case, he's looked terrible in every way.

I mean, the guy, there's in no particular order, is, I mean, I hadn't watched him before Summer League. If any of you had, then I guess you're probably pretty religiously watching Timberwolves games or you just happen to catch him in a game or two. He's incredibly unathletic, and the guy has no burst. It's just not quick at all. It doesn't even look to be particularly agile. Definitely can't elevate at the rim when he gets there, which is even in the summer league, not at all. So he's slow. He just either he's forcing scoring or he just has terrible court vision because there were just times when he just tried to force his way past packed paint rather than passing to an open guy.

I mean, there was one play on which Bobby Clinton was wide open and nine out of ten players would have made that pass. And instead, Wendomore decided to go in, take a bump and put up a bad floater. So court vision doesn't appear to be great unless he's just really trying to prove himself. The shooting has not been there. He makes mistakes on defense. And I just, I don't think he's going to, I mean, who knows if they'll keep him on the roster just against the possible. of using him for salary matching, though that's kind of irrelevant at this point, given that it looks like the pistons are going to go into the season below the cap. Could be wrong.

Things could happen between now and then. But it's also possible to just waive the guy for the roster spot. With Clintman in the equation, they've got 14 guys in the roster. Of course, that can change too. But who knows? I guess I was kind of hoping that Moore would show us a little bit. I mean, he was a decent shooter in college, and he's just looked absolutely terrible in summer league.

So, I mean, obviously, his chances also of busting into it a very packed wing rotation were exceptionally low in the first place. But it would have been nice, would have just been a little bit of a bonus to see the guy show something at least, which he has not. And let's move on. So Marcus Sasser, I'm going to take these in no particular order. There are only really four guys worth talking about. So Marcus Sasser, apparently the goal from what we've heard, was for him to go in and focus on his playmaking. And in the event, he's just run into basically the same problem that he has in the NBA, which is that his first step sucks.

He's not quick. He, you know, when he gets into the pains, he can't elevate at the rim because he's a poor lever, and he's very undersized. So just the first part that he just can't get past anybody is a big problem, of course. You know, pick and roll or not, the guy just doesn't have the first step to do it. I mean, you combine his stride length because he's short with just a lack of burst. And that's a recipe for difficulty. and you really have to have the handle to compensate for that.

And Sasser does not. I mean, he has his bevy of kind of like crossovers and behind the backs, but those are not really effective ways for him to get past guys. So, I mean, there have just been sequences. And I mean, this was bound to translate this way to the G League because it doesn't even require that the guys playing against him be NBA caliber defenders. All they have to do is be quick enough to stay in front of him, which almost all of them can do.

the only guy he was really able to consistently blow past was Reed Shepard. Another short guy with short arms and not very, well, I mean, Sasser doesn't have short arms. He's got six-foot-seven wingspan. But another short guy who also Shepard just doesn't have good lateral mobility. But, you know, it was gratifying to see Sasser blow past him. But basically, if you can't break down defenses, your ability, just your acuity as a playmaker is very minimal. He's had a lot of trouble as a playmaker. in summer league. He's really been focusing on that more than shooting. And as I've said before,

I mean, if the guy can really get it together in terms of his tough pull-ups, then sure, his playmaking potential opens up. Then he can play like a Lou Williams-esque role. But that's a lot to ask. And they're trying to play him more as a traditional playmaker, you know, just attack from the perimeter and come in and break down defenses and pass open guys. And it's just not working. So today against the bull, as we saw him shoot more from the perimeter, And I think ultimately that's, again, unless you can just get that really tough shot profile working and do it reliably, which is so difficult in the NBA, just to get all of these pull-up twos and sidestep, you know, sidestep pull-up twos, which he would take and just awful lot of dribbles and some difficult dribbles. I mean, it's just a really tough shot profile to make worthwhile, especially when you consider that, I mean, the half-court efficiency threshold keeps going up and up and up. I mean, it's at about one point per possession.

So, unless you're shooting about 50% on those, they're just not efficient shots. And, I mean, it's such a heavy part of his shot diet. He got, like, his total proportion of shots at the rim last season with something like 10%, which is extremely low for a guard. And it's largely just because he can't get there. And when he does get there, I mean, if there's really anybody, if the rim protector is anywhere near him, because he can't elevate, he's going to get swatted that he doesn't get there very often.

It's almost invariably a pull-up jumper or a floater. So, I mean, it's like worth a look, I guess it was at Summer League, but it's been ugly. It's been ugly just watching him try to be the playmaker who penetrates because it's not working. Really, so much of him is tied into his shooting. So who knows? Maybe it turns out that Sasser is just best used as, you know, a situational shooter. I'm like, I went over this. I know after he was drafted, that it was a weird pick to me because it must.

he'd suddenly developed some sort of ability to attack off the dribble and get to the rim, which he hadn't been able to do at the NCAA level. And he'd never really shown a ton of acuity as a playmaker there. And he'd never really even operated as the primary playmaker there. Then he was the likelihood as to just be an undersized, very fit, dependent shooting specialist. And that's just kind of a tough fit. Because you've got to play him next to a larger guard. And it's as for size.

Sure, it's not like he's short-arms. got a six-foot-seven wingspan. But I mean, when you're that short, you have to have preferably several of these four factors. Number one is just being a naturally good defender. You have guys like Kyle Lowry, well, when he was younger. Fred Van Vleet, Mike Conley, and so on, who are not big, but they just make it work because they're very smart defenders. They have disadvantaged, just very disadvantageous positions happen to them nonetheless, but that helps. Number two is being really beefy like Marcus Smart. I believe it's about an inch taller than Sasser, but is very strong, and that strength is going

to help quite a bit, because unlike Sasser, where, you know, if you have a larger guy drive in on him, it's not only that he's just going to score over him. It's that generally you can bully Sasser kind of toward the interior. I mean, you can kind of push him in toward the paints. You know, if you're driving wide on him, and obviously that's going to get you closer to the basket and gets you a better opportunity. So Sasser against bigger players is just going to get pushed around as well. Number three is length. And like, for example, if you're Reggie Jackson, who's never been a particularly good defender by any means, but he compensates for his, you know, he's not short. I think he's about an inch taller than Sasser as well. But he's got this outrageous

six, like six foot 11 or seven foot wingspan, which obviously is going to help you make up for, you know, for your height a bit. And also he's quite a bit better built than Sasser is. And number four is athleticism. It's just, you know, for your height a bit more. And it's just. helpful for anything, you know, helps you always stick with, you know, stick with guys laterally who are maybe just as fast as you and have a much longer stride length, or just, you know, sky to contest or whatever else. No, Sasser has none of those things. I mean, he's not, just his length is decent, but it's not, like, going to compensate for his size. He is not, I mean, he's, he's fairly well-built, but he's not like a tank by any means, like Marcus Smart or Kyle

Lowry. He's not very athletic at all. I mean, he can move his feet reasonably well. I mean, he's got decent lateral mobility, but no, he's not very athletic. And as a defender, he's, he's hard working, and he's not, I mean, I would say he has above average defensive IQ, but he's not, like, the sort of really smart defender like those other short, you know, the other players I mentioned who are similarly disadvantaged, you know, excuse me, disadvantaged in terms of size. Guys like even Jose Alvarado, for example. So, yeah, he's just inherently going to be, you know, a liability on defense in certain situations. I mean, against just guys bigger than him,

against guys more athletic than, well, bigger and more athletic than him, even guys who are bigger than him and not necessarily more athletic than him, like Josh Giddy, who just scored over him. There are going to be situations in which he just gets scored over. You post him up. I mean, he's slight enough that you can back him down, whatever. So, you know, what his role just may end up being is just kind of situational shooter. he does still have a lot of shooting potential

or rather it's not really potential. I mean, he did in college on high volume. He was an excellent catch-and-shoote guy. So he might just be a dude who scurries around the perimeter and take shots, maybe take some pull-up threes, and he can attack close-outs by means of just, well, I mean, that's where the pull-up twos and the floaters come in and he's got to be able to hit those.

So how he's going to find his way into the rotation is anybody's guess outside of injuries. but it's just hard for me to feel like the Pistons could realistically rely on him being able to step in as a lead handler in case of an injury to Cade or an injury to Ivy. It's just a lot to ask or a lot to hope for to just say, okay, we're willing to depend upon this guy being able to convert on an extremely difficult shot profile that is necessary for him to do consistently in order to be an honest to goodness playmaker.

Because like I've said, otherwise, defense is just playing one-on-one. and, you know, he's not getting past anybody, so he's kind of sunk. I don't know how many of you remember Luke Kinnard in his final season with the Pistons when Dwayne Casey, who was curiously resistant to doing things like this, actually let him handle the ball a certain amount in the pick and roll, and Luke was not getting to the rim very often. His danger as a playmaker was that he, of course, was an elite three-point shooter. I mean, I've said it before, I'll say it again.

I mean, Luke Kinnard is best known amongst Pistons fans, as the guy who was taken instead of Donovan Mitchell, and that was a big gaffe, and he's nowhere near Mitchell's caliber as a player. He is, however, at this point, I mean, statistically, it's just one of the greatest three-point shooters in the history of the NBA. So you couldn't leave him open at all at the three-point line.

You know, he'd pull up from three. And if he went around a pick, I mean, you couldn't give him any space around the pick. You had to throw the big at him because otherwise he would pull up for two, and he was efficient at that. But most guys cannot make that work, and I don't think Sasser has the sort of stroke that Luke Kinnard did.

So that's my long-winded spiel about Sasser. Yeah, it's only Summer League, but it's been kind of distressing to watch him just repeat his struggles that he has had in the NBA against much less difficult opposition by simple dint of these guys still being able to stay in front of him like NBA opposition does. Moving on, so Bobby Clinton, and he's probably been the most, I would say certainly the most impressive with the guys, you know, the potential roster players, the Pistons of fielded. So it's basically been as expected. He's shot pretty well. He's able to reposition and set and shoot. He moves intelligently. He knows where to be. He's pretty hard worker. He's always

active. Where he's really impressed, in my opinion, is his passing. I mean, he has good vision. He's willing and able. And he makes the right decision off the fly. He's not the kind of guy who needs to decide what he's going to do before he, you know, for example, drive. into the interior. He's just he's a reactive passer. You know, if there's somebody open, he'll, he's likely to find them. He's, he's had a decent drive-and-kick game. You know, even the things like, you know, driving into the interior and finding a cutter or just finding somebody who's like four feet away from him under the basket and shoveling a quick pass. He's been impressive in that capacity, and that's a useful skill. By all means, it's a skill that to some degree is increasingly

common in the NBA just to you know when you're seeing like Derek Jones Jr. driving, you know, driving and kicking. It's like we saw in the finals. Or maybe earlier in the playoffs too. I didn't really watch a ton of the Mavericks before that. But now when you're seeing that, you know, you know that the basic driving kick. I mean, it's become a necessity to be able to do that. But if you're able to do it at a higher level, you know, if you're just able to to make the right read and react and make quick passes, obviously that's that's much preferable. It's a skill. and Clintman's been impressive in that capacity. It's worth noting that, I mean,

Clintman is still kind of a project player. That's why he dropped a 37. It's not like he's a sure thing at this point. His shot still needs some work. His interior game is pretty poor. I mean, he's had real struggles finishing through contact in the NBL. And that's, MBL is the Australian League, where he played last season after one season at Wake Forest.

So, yeah, he's severely struggled at finishing through contact. And, you know, there are the athletic shortcomings and so on. He had issues with consistency. So it's just, I mean, it's been a pleasant surprise so far. He has struggled in the expected areas, which are attacking the interior, just that poor first step and just his trouble really navigating the interior to the rim at all and then elevate him when he gets there. And he has had every bit the sort of struggles that one would have expected at finishing

through contact. But nonetheless, hard worker, you know, smart passer and just smart player on offense has played pretty decent defense, tends to know where to be, tends to know where to be on both ends. And those players are the above average IQ. I mean, that's really a force multiplier, so to speak. So I'd say Clintman has been the best so far out of the, you know, the five notables. And I'm including Wendell Moore and that number five just solely again, because, you know, He's on the roster at the moment. So as far as looking forward to what role equipment could have during the season, just if he's able to hit his threes and make these passes, two things.

Number one, this is Summer League. As I've said, Summer League, it's just worth keeping in mind. Don't let disemper your enjoyment, of course. But Summer League is glorified pickup both in how the game is played. I mean, you'd see the spectacularly bad shot selection, extremely inefficient. efficient shot selection, but also, I mean, the schemes that are run are super basic on offense and defense and also the quality of competition is also drastically, drastically lower. So weaknesses are amplified at the NBA level.

Clintman will have a harder time, like getting himself open on the perimeter. He'll have a harder time when he's asked to attack closeouts. It's just everything's more difficult at the NBA level. I'm not saying that what he's done so far is not promising. I mean, it's been quite promising. You know, he's definitely been an unexpected surprise, but just bear in mind that things can look very different at the NBA level. And yeah, I'm just saying that as a disclaimer in terms of, you know, what could possibly be expected of him as a rookie. Again, he's not a finished product.

So, yeah, not saying he's, oh, this guy's not going to be good in the NBA, just that things are different in NBA action. And also he's got some development to do. also of course important is that the front court is a little bit packed at the moment particularly at forward whenever this in the last episode but guys i think are going to compete four minutes of power forward tobias heiress of course we'll take the lion's share of them fontecchio i believe will get some of them and assar thompson they see a certain number of them as well he'd be undersized of course but he's strong and very athletic and you know that that that can go a long way to alleviating the lack of size.

And then it's small forward. You'll have Tim Hardaway, Jr., and Fontechio, and Assar probably as well, getting minutes. So, Clintman, I think, is logical position. The NBA will be power forward. But basically outside of a situation in which there are a lot of injuries and or Clintman really impresses, I'd expect he's probably not going to be in the rotation, even if he does really impress. I mean, guys like Massar will take priority over him. And hopefully not included in that number who are going to be competing for minutes at Power Forward is Isaiah Stewart.

Shout out to Zach Lowe who watches enough of the Pistons. Zach Lowe of the Low Post, in my opinion, the best in the business in terms of national NBA analysts. Yeah, shout out to him for covering the Isaiah Stewart question on the last episode of the low post. Just saying, and I completely agree, please don't play Isaiah Stewart. at Power Forward again. You and O, all know how I feel about Isaiah Stewart at Power Forward. And just to loop back, I know I got to, oh, it's only Summer League and didn't apply that to Marcus Sasser.

The trouble with Sasser and the reason I'm not saying, oh, it's just Summer League with him, is that he's still having trouble. I mean, on his side, he's just the same thing he had trouble with in the NBA, has been troublesome for him against much easier competition. So for him, it being Summer League, even though he is playing dead. differently than he typically would is not really all that relevant. Also worth mentioning with Sasser, though this is less of a concern. His splits right now are less than 29% from the field, and about 21% from three. Not ideal. I haven't been getting into the line a lot. And it's just

worth noting that, of course, percentages are going to be less in Summer League than they typically are, though that shouldn't be the case for Sasser. That's more just the case for undrafted players or rookies or just guys who are taking more difficult shots than they will in the NBA, because they will be told not to take those shots in the NBA, and that's just not the case in Summer League. All right. So number four, Dennis Jenkins, who was started the last couple of games. It's a cool story, actually.

He's a close friend of Sasser. They apparently grew up together, and now they're getting to play together, start in the back court together at Summer League, which is apparently a big deal for the two of them. So Jenkins has been a little bit of a surprise. He's averaging about 14 points per game, four assists, and only shooting 40% from the field, but that includes 41% from 2. It's about half of his attempt, or excuse me, 41% from 3, which is about half his attempt. So he's mainly been interesting just for his three-point shooting, which has been very good for his occasional playmaking. I mean, in the interior, he struggles.

he's not particularly athletic he's not particularly tall you know about probably a little bit over six two and weighs at least from what i'm reading about 170 pounds sopping wet so he has on a two-way contract with the pistons you know what are you realistically going to get out of a guy who is 22 years old and is very much point guard sized and isn't all that athletic uh who knows i mean ironically maybe it's you know, a guy who's just good at shooting threes. And he's really shot some from well behind the line. At the same time, that's what you're looking for from Sasser. You know, at this point, is a guy who, you know, is very good. I mean, that's what he is. It's very guard-sized. And the idea is just that he's going to hit tough threes. You know, if the playmaking doesn't come together, do the occasional playmaking. So it'd be interesting to see where it goes.

I mean, he's, he's been doing well in the summer league context. I have my doubts as to whether that would transfer. late even to the G League, let alone the NBA in limited minutes. He's just the kind of guy who can do it at Summer League, but just the combination of his disadvantages is likely to just top him off at the sub-MBA level, but who knows? You know, presumably he will be in the G League for the vast majority of next season. There's always the question that remains open. Will the Pistons bring on a veteran point guard, you know, to at least play behind Jaden Ivy and at least be there in the events of injury.

or follow trouble with Kate or Ivy. You know, if they decide that they're not going to trust Sasser, it's, I would be shocked if they were to fall back on Dennis Jenkins. It's been fun to watch, but I think very much a Summer League slash G League player. And finally, the number five overall pick, Ron Holland. It's been an interesting couple of games. He didn't play in the second one, just because they were resting him on the first game of a back-to-back. Has been definitely showing that he's very raw as a scorer.

doing worse actually than he did in the G league, which is a little weird because I'd say that the competition of the G league is probably more difficult than it is in summer league. Basically on offense, he's, well, I would guess actually in the G league, the fact that it's more coached and spacing is probably quite a bit better. It was helpful to him, so scratch that. But he's at his struggles in the weight of the basket. He gets blocked a lot, gets the ball stripped, and he just loses the ball. and, well, I guess saying the ball gets stripped isn't accurate. I mean, he's only averaging one turnover per game across the two games. I believe he had two turnovers in the first game and zero in the second.

So, yeah, he certainly has gotten blocked. I'm not sure. I think sometimes those are included in turnovers. No, actually, no, they're not. They're just blocks against, so they're missed field goals. So basically, he has a struggle. It's attacking the basket. And, you know, despite being quite athletic, yeah, he goes right up the middle

and finds himself in a bad place and then lofts up a shot that often doesn't go in. In transition, he has more success. But basically, if he's forced to attack into traffic or in a contact, I mean, he's really struggled through these two games. Transition was where he did very well in the G-League. And, again, yeah, possibly just the fact that he was in a more organized setting. Well, that shouldn't matter in transition. The shooting, I mean, he's only taken six threes.

He's made one of them. At the line, he struggled. Only 58% is 34% in the field overall. He's averaging 8 rebounds a game, which is nice. And it does the occasional playmaking. He hasn't really been used as a handler much. I preached, you know, I, excuse me, I predicted that he would be used more as a handler.

He was the primary creator for his G-League team and said it's been chiefly Sasser and Jenkins. But in any case, to be expected, basically, this is a raw player. This is a player who, you know, even if he can just get his shot together, should be good. He's been good on defense and his game against his former teammates,

Matas Buzellis. He got to, you know, increasingly as the game went on, play defense against Buzellas and did a good job. I really made life difficult in the half court for him. And Buzellis, yeah, is further along than Holland. I don't think the ceiling is as high, but he is further along. I think it's worth noting that I think he had eight points in transition today,

which means he had in the half court. 10 points on, I think, 16 opportunities, cutting free throws, you know, give or take a basket in transition. You didn't really have a great game, and part of that was due to Holland. And Buzellas, I think it's worth noting Summer League is a lot easier for him as he's attacking guys who are nowhere near as athletic or strong, as he will, in the NBA. I think he's going to have at least his rookie some trouble getting by guys. Even today, he was resorting to a lot of floaters, and the three just wasn't falling. But Holland's raw. You know, it might take time. He was drafted knowing he was raw.

This is not anywhere near a finished product. The front office chose to bet on ceiling. So, you know, the fact that he is looking very raw just, I think, shouldn't come as much of a surprise. It's a little bit disappointing because you want to see your top five pick coming and really light it up. But he's got a lot of development to do. And at this point, at least, you know, who knows if they'll send him in the G-League.

I mean, it'll be different than it was with the Ignites because he'll be playing a more fitting role. role under the supervision of an honest-to-goodness MPA development squad versus whatever they have with the Ignites who are a terrible team. They were just awful this past season. So maybe he'll spend some time in the G-League. Maybe he'll just be with the main team and, you know, soaking up minutes in case of injuries or just otherwise just practicing and developing with the main roster. But yeah, he looks real raw. But again, that's just to be expected. This was a very, very, This is very much an upside pick.

I know that was controversial because the piston's already had so much raw talent on the team. But, yeah, the front office chose to go with 100% potential rather than, you know, kind of 50% are they going to be able to shoot or kind of, you know, further along, but still upside players like Brzealous or Cody Williams. So that's Summer League. And it's been fun to watch, chiefly, at least for me, it's just having basketball to watch at all. because, I mean, we haven't watched anything, any sort of basketball that has even, you know, the Pistons name on it since the middle of April, since the 14th of April was the final game of the season. And it's going to be another three months until the season begins, until even preseason begins, I believe this is in mid-October. So that's been the enjoyable part of it. It's been, at least for me, it's been enjoyable watching Clintman play and just fun watching.

Again, basketball with the Pistons name attached to it. And, well, obviously, players who are under the ages of the Pistons, you know, the vast majority of the guys in the summer league squad are not going to be affiliated with the Pistons in the upcoming season. So I think that'll be it for this episode, be a bit of a short one. Like I said, if anything really notable happens in the next couple of games or, you know, up to the next three games, if the Pistons wind up making it to the finals.

and there are Summer League rings. The Summer League Championship does come with rings that would make for all sorts of jokes about the Pistons. You know, finally winning a ring, it's been 20 years. You know, you won a ring after a 14-game season and so on and so forth. Aside from that, you know, yeah, we've got three months until roughly three months, I think, until preseason. And so just planning on doing a series of player reviews for the seven players

from last season's roster who will be going into next season. I'm going to do, I think I did this for the Van Gundy regime a few years ago. I'm going to do a retrospective, like an in-depth retrospective of the Weaver regime. Just go move by move and try to put everything in the context of the bigger picture. And at that point, I think we'll be getting pretty close to preseason, and there it'll be time for it. season previews. So yeah, I'm planning on continuing to release the podcast on a weekly basis during the off season. I know this is kind of really the dead zone between summer league and

preseason, but I think still got plenty to talk about this past season and about the upcoming season. So as always, folks, hope you're all doing great. Thank you for listening. I will catch you in next week's episode.