Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 21: Rebuild News, Patrick Williams, and LaMelo Ball

Episode Date: November 14, 2020

This episode explores recent comments by Troy Weaver on the rebuild, speaks briefly on Christian Wood's upcoming free agency, and discusses recent rumors linking Patrick Williams and LaMelo Ball to the Pistons.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, everybody. My name is Mike. I am here with Tommy. Welcome to another episode of Drive into the Basket. At the time of the recording this episode, we are six days away from the NBA draft that is on November the 18th. A few other dates to be aware of. Two days before that, it would be Monday, November 16th, is the end of the NBA trade moratorium. Basically, the beginning of the period during which NBA teams can make trades official. The 20th, beginning of free agency. at least the beginning of free agency in the sense that teams and players can talk to each other and agree on contracts. November 22nd is when contracts can actually be signed. So there'll be a lot going on in the next eight days here, probably less for the Pistons and for some other teams. But it should be an interesting period, certainly the draft. And perhaps just to see what the Pistons will be doing in free agency. And maybe some trades. Who knows? We'll talk about that a little bit later.

So we're just going to launch right in here to talking about a bit about the Pistons future. So up to this point, Troy Weaver had been a bit vague. I mean, I think we all know to some degree, of course, you know, it was not exactly a secret that the Pistons are in the midst of a rebuild. But Weaver had been a little bit evasive on what that meant. You know, it's just like it'll be just a series of, how did you put it on me? Did you say a series of reloads or something like that? He didn't want to say rebuild, retooling or something like that.

Yeah. So whatever the case, he was a lot of a mum on talking about a long-term rebuild. And I've come to think that Weaver is just somebody who's sort of deliberately vague. It doesn't really like to give anything away. It's also possible he's just a really poor public speaker. I don't think that's really quite as likely, though. But what I've watched him do is respond to questions, you know, kind of as follows. Like somebody will ask him, well, what do you think about doing this?

And he says, oh, yeah, we've thought about doing that. You know, we've explored that. And somebody will ask about something completely different. And he'll say, yeah, that's definitely. an option and somebody will ask a completely different question and he's like oh sure that's possibility so i think and this is a very preliminary impression this is his first time being a general manager he's been with the past since for a short time we don't have a large sample size but it's it seemed to me that he just doesn't really like to he likes to give away as well as possible now when it's

come to the actual talk of a rebuild he's been unwilling to say that i think you know he just made references to or though we'd like to this is like oh yeah we'd pull plan to be competitive at the same time as he's more or less saying, well, we're not trying to win. So I find it a little bit off-putting because it's like, well, are we not actually committing to a real rebuild here? But he had a press conference fairly recently. It was a close press conference in the sense that it was not televised. It was reported upon extensively by the Detroit beatwriters.

Wherein he gave some additional insight. One quote in particular, where we were said, we want to be competitive without short-cutting our long-term future. We're looking at both scenarios for sure. I don't know who you consider big agents, but we plan on talking to guys who we're very interested in as well as leveraging caps, basically, that's,

it's a balancing act with being competitive on the forefront while not mortgage in the future. So, okay, this is still a little bit ambiguous, but gives us a little better of a view into, you know, not mortgage in the future, looking at our long-term future. And, of course, this guy is more than competent enough to know that you can't be in the middle of the pack,

and be competing for the eighth seed or the seventh seed and still really be doing a good job of building for the future. You know, fortunately, there was also some news that came out by way of Zach Lowe, which is that the Pistons have, the way he put it telegraph to other teams, basically suggested to other teams that instead of signing big contracts, they'd rather take on other teams' bad contracts in exchange for assets. So, Tommy, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I did remember he said it was a restoration.

So it is just with service But at the same time, like a lot of these like little things That he's kind of hinting at us doing It really does seem like trying to win He never says we're trying to win He always says remain competitive And I think what he's trying to stay there

With being competitive Without mortgaging the future And trying to be competitive I think he's trying to avoid like a process level tank And that's what people really, really don't want In terms of like what the fans want to see But I think he does intend on seeing a rebuild all the way through and not cutting it short when there's like a disgruntled star who

they think they can get you know and that's that's precisely what you want to hear from him it's like it's like you said he's not going to give away everything but there's kind of little hints that he's dropping so the way that this low thing came up was it was on the subject of uh fred van fleet this kind of indicates that the pistons aren't interested in him and i think he's one of the biggest free agents of this class. And, you know, if the Pistons were trying to win, yeah, we're one of the teams that could have thrown money at him. But I don't think we will. I don't think we're going to make that offer unless it's like it's such a good number that maybe we can flip him for something else down the line. But it doesn't seem like Weaver wants to sign significantly expensive

players that are going to up the win, the win total. So he didn't say explicitly, yeah, we're trying to lose. But he's kind of indicated we're not trying to win, but we're not. not trying to be horrible. Yeah, I would say, like a lot of people think about when you bring up the idea of rebuilding, it's like, oh, do you guys really want to go through the process and be this horrible team for X number of years? I've always compared that to saying, you know, to somebody asking, oh, do you want to go and, you know, hike, you know, this mountain here for the day. It'll be fun. It's like, oh, dude, no, I don't want to hike Mount Everest. Are you crazy? It's like, it's like, you know, the process was the most deliberate, most extended tank, you know, most complete tank job.

I think in a history of American sports. I mean, unlike we'd ever seen anything like that again. And there's also the fact that it was only made possible by some really bizarre circumstances, like the length of it and just how bad the Sixers were. They had, I believe, three straight draft picks, two of whom were at number one overall, missed their rookie seasons, all three of them. Embed missed his rookie season.

Simmons missed his rookie season. Fault's missed his rookie season. So just the process. there was also watery reform. I mean, it's just, I think it's something you're highly unlike we'd ever see in the NBA again. What you do see and what you'll continue to see are teams going through two or three year rebuilds. And I think that unless you're Mark Cuban, who doesn't care about getting fined at all, I don't even remember how much he's paid and fines over the course of his career, but he came out in 2018 and said, oh, yeah, we're trying

to lose. And I mean, anybody watching the Mavericks games would be well aware of that in general, you know, in the first place, rather, because in the fourth quarter of close games, Rick Carlisle, as coach the Mavericks, would put his bench warmers in. It was completely blatant. So, you know, it's apparently, well, it's not apparently this is the case. It's fine to do it as long as you don't say you're trying to do it. So, yeah, I think that Weaver doesn't want to come in. And I think no GM wants to come in.

I don't think you'll ever see any GM come in and say, oh, yeah, we're going to try to be as bad as we possibly. again. But for any team that's rebuilding the right way, which is, you know, again, especially, and I know we all hate to hear this, but for a team, you know, a team in a market like Detroit that's probably not going to draw these big free agents. I mean, you have some teams like the Knicks could conceivably pick up, like they've got RJ Barrett, maybe they get somebody good in this draft, maybe they get somebody really good in next draft, or maybe even they've just got two really promising guys to pan out well on the new sign a marquee free agent because New York is still, no matter what, a marquee free agent destination, you know, relatively speaking, I mean, when

they're awful, nobody is really winding up to sign there. But if they're in decent shape, then a marquee free agent will sign there because it's New York City. So, but for the Pistons, you kind of got to be getting those good draft picks. Getting those good draft picks means you got to be in good draft position. Being good draft position means that you need to lose. So, yeah, I agree with you. I think he's just, it's just a way of fancy way of wording things. And so, you know, about Fred Van Fleet. I mean, the guy, Fred Van Fleet came out recently said, hey, man, I'm looking, you know, not, this is not a direct quote. It's obviously more articulate than this.

He said, I'm looking to get paid, you know. I've put on my time. I won the championship. You know, I've established myself, and now I want to get paid. And still, all things being equal, I mean, if, I hope, you know, goodness gracious, I hope this doesn't happen. And I think it's incredibly unlikely to happen. you know, I'd say this is, I'd say the chances of this happening are basically zero that the Pistons would even make a giant offer. I think that the Pistons made such a big offer and another team, more or less any other team, also made a big offer.

Van Fleet would probably go to the other team. It's just where the Pistons are right now. I could be wrong. I'm not trying to run down the Pistons, but I think, and Tommy disagree with me, you know, speak out if you disagree with me on this, I think the Pistons are in the worst shape of any team of the league right now. Yep. Yeah. I've got the Knicks are a mess. They've got about a year's March, so to speak, in the Pistons because Barrett and also, like I said, their New York City.

They can rebuild in their own way. All they need to do is get into a decent position, and then somebody will sign with them. And I wish that by the case in Detroit, but barring something highly unforeseen, I don't think it's likely to be. So any other thoughts you've got about what we've said about the future? I mean, I'll move on to talking about Christian Wood here in a little bit. He had some things to say about Wood. Yeah. I think he covered it.

He really doesn't seem to want to tip his hand in terms of, like, saying we want to lose, but it seems like that's what we're going to do. And I think he is indicating that we're doing a multi-year rebuild. The words, I guess, that kind of stuck with me is, like, the long-term plans that they have. So that's a relief to hear because it seemed like in the past they were just kind of You know, how good can we be this year? And it always kind of put us like right around the 8th C but no, it seems like they have a multi-year plan now and that's a relief to hear Yeah, absolutely agree going back to what Zachlo about the Pistons

What Zeclo said, excuse me about the Pistons maybe being willing to be a dumping grub for bad contracts I believe that's been corroborated by some other national sources that the Pistons since they're considering it. And smart move, of course. This is something that's surprisingly a few teams do in the course of a rebuild. The Celtics did, absolutely did it. They made it clear during their rebuild, which lasted from like 2014 to 2017, I think. I could be wrong in the years, but they made it clear.

You know what? Hey, we're open for your bad contracts. Just give us picks along with them. The Nets did it during their rebuild. most notably in the case of Damari Carroll, whom they took from the Raptors. There was some talk about the other teams maybe, well, the other two teams mentioned in that same vein

were the Hornets and the Knicks, the Hornets in the sense that they'd be willing to do it, and the Knicks in the sense that they would not, because they're the Knicks and whatever. I mean, I'm not going to sit here in Trash Talk, the Knicks. We all know that they're poorly run. And, you know, it seems poorly run even by the standards of the Pistons. And, you know, who knows how much of that comes from James Dolan, who is arguably the worst owner in the entire NBA.

And as far as the Hornets go, you know, that news came out this morning. And then very soon afterward came the news that they are linked to, you know, possibly to Russell Westbrook. So, you know, who knows, maybe Detroit will end up being the only team with Cappspace that is willing to be a dumping ground. and that would be great. Anyway, moving on to Christian Wood. So what Weaver said about Christian Wood, we look forward to continuing to have talks with Christian News representatives.

Some will be of strong interest in. Moving on, do I have a number of my head? Yeah, I always have a number in my head, but we'll see how that works out. So more or less, all this says is that, yes, the Pistons would like to maintain Christian Wood, which I think it's hardly surprising. You know, you could be a guy you could sign

at the very least, say, you know, at the very least with the belief that we'll sign him now and maybe, you know, we'll decide that we don't really want to keep him and then we can, you know, who knows, maybe train him for a decent draft asset. I know that I'm not as confident as you, Tommy, that it would be a good idea. Not that it would not be a good idea. I'm not as confident in the outcome if the Pistons do sign him to a longer-term deal. But, you know, I've said in the past, it's like I'm still wary of the guy's attitude.

I don't know how that's going to play out when he's already been. paid. I don't know if he's going to be a good teammate. I don't know if he's going to be super coachable. His attitude was his biggest problem from the very beginning. That's why a player who was very talented, did not break into, and who went into the draft in 2015, took four years to find his way onto a team. Not to find his way into a team, but rather to get consistent minutes and to carve out a place in the rotation and stick with that team for the whole season. Though certainly the, David Griffin is probably, probably face palming.

David Griffin was the general manager of the New Orleans Pelicans. And certainly face palming right now at the fact that he cut wood, does he waived him last off season because would be an ideal person on that team, just an ideal fit on that team rather, assuming that he would be willing to sign for just the mid-level exception, which is what the Pelicans have available. So I'm sure we've done it best. Let's do it again.

If you were Detroit-Liber, Tommy, how much? money would you be willing to offer Christian Wood in how many years? Ideally, I think we can, I think it would be like 12, 12 million per year for four years, but the most I would go is 15, I think, and then still be happy with it about you. The number that comes into my head is 54 million, so four years of 14. Ideally, on a declining contract, because, you know, who cares right now? You know, you front load the contract. business don't need a cap space right now.

Come year three or more probably year four, it's like, who knows, maybe you really could use that extra two or three million dollars in cap space. For those of you who are also hockey fans, there's a difference between how salaries work against the cap in the NBA and the NHL.

In the NHL, you sign for, you know, four years, $40 million. Your cap, it is $10 million every year. In the NBA, it is your salary number that year. So, for example, Tobias Harris in his contract with Detroit, that was a front-loaded contract. That was actually one of the things that made his contract. Well, I wouldn't, not particularly valuable, but it was a strength of his contract, basically, that his salary actually declined over time.

So his salary was highest in year one and lowest in year five. So that's the contract I would be looking for with Wood. And I think you hand him $14 million a year. I think that's an acceptable risk. I think that if things go really poorly with the Pistons, there would still be another team willing to take a flyer on him for like, you know, like a late for a strong pick. And it's like, okay, cool, then you've got a late for a strong pick

for signing a guy to a contract. Now, Tommy, what do you think the chances are that he does sign with Detroit? I think they're pretty high. It seems like more and more teams are like finding other things to spend their money on. And the reason I wanted to mention this quote from Weaver specifically, his introductory press conference, somebody asked him about Christian Wood and he was like, no, we're not going to talk about him. He's a free agent. This is like the first like public statement they've made indicating that they do have a strong interest in bringing back Christian Wood. So I think

it's likely that he ends up here, especially given the fact that there really aren't that many teams that can offer anything more than the mid-level exception. So I think it's really just about getting high enough above that that he wants to deal with playing on a team that's going to struggle for the next few years but given the fact that he hasn't made much in his career, I think he's just going to take the highest number. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility

that he goes to New York. I don't know if they would want him. Actually, I think they probably would have interest and they've got a lot of cap space and he's an exciting player to watch. The other team to look at was Charlotte. I don't think that's, they will be quite as interested.

But who knows, maybe if they do pull off that Westbrook trade, maybe they will. And maybe they would be interested anyway. Of course, I know I've just said, you know, maybe they would be interested. Maybe they would not be interested. I have no idea. I just really have no idea. The team I would actually be more concerned about is New York. Because if you're given a choice between, if you're given the same money and you can out of play in Detroit or New York City,

I hate to say it, but New York City has got kind of an edge. It's Christian Wood. I know he said he wants to win. I think he wants to be a big player on a big stage. And New York City is a big stage. You know, who knows what gratitude there might be to the Pistons. He has come out and said good things about Dwayne Casey, definitively good things about Dwayne Casey.

There was an article written about him recently in which he, and I know Tommy you'd implied this early during the season itself that Casey had been really good for him. And I'd said, well, we don't know that. were right. Casey had been good for him. Christian Wood said that, you know, unlike the past coaches, it's not, I don't know if he compared to past coaches, but it's basically like, you know, Casey was good for my growth. This was tough love. If I screwed up early on, if I screwed up, he would take me off on defense, he would take me off the floor. And, you know, we'd talk about it.

And, you know, then I would get another shot, something along those lines. He had really good things to say about Twain Casey. So who knows, maybe having that relationship with the coach is also important for him. It's just tough to know his motivations. And the, and the guy, you know, by his behavior on, you know, whatever, it's Instagram, social media, whatever. It seems a little flighty. I don't know. I have no idea. I would go no higher than $15 million a year. That's, that's, I think, about as far as I could go, would go rather. It's just the thing is, you never know, like I said, you never know how Wood will behave after he's already been paid. And also, you don't know if, based on his performance last year,

I think it was, I don't remember how many games it was, somewhere in the mid-team. the Pistons lost all the two of them. And it's hard to know if he's a good stats and a bad team sort of guy. You've just never seen him play over a protracted period, and you've never seen him play next to good players. So moving on then to the draft. So there's been some draft news connected to the Pistons lately that has been the abrupt emergence of Patrick Williams

onto the top 10 draft scene rather than being connected to basically before Patrick Williams had been mocked as kind of a guy in the maybe in the low teens at the earliest but suddenly has jumped into conversation as a top 10 pick not only connected to the pistons but there have been multiple sources that have suggested that multiple national level sources excuse me who have suggested that the pistons are interested in Williams one of them even alleged that the Pistons had made a promise to draft him if he's available. I don't believe that. Certainly possible that they have interest. What are you feeling about Williams at this point, Tommy? Yeah, so Williams was kind of, he did shoot up a little bit, and then he was kind of, everyone was kind of mocking to the Spurs at 11, and the reason is the upside. There's a lot of question marks with him, but the founding.

foundation looks really good. I just don't know if we're the team to take what's there. He has a really good looking jump shot, but the percentages weren't great. He played at Florida State, and he was in this really balanced offense where he wasn't playing as many minutes as, like, another guy who you would, some of these other guys who were getting picked or looked at, at, like, seventh. But the measurements, I think, are the most enticing thing. Well, up to this point, it looked like we were pretty much a shoe-in for a guard, somebody who couldn't handle the ball.

Williams is 6-8, long wingspan, really strong. They think that he can be kind of like, I almost hate to say it because there's so many expectations, but like the Kauai Leonard, where you take somebody who was kind of underperforming and you see the promise that that guy has and he ends up being really, really good. we've seen that Weaver likes guys with high character and just based on the articles about Patrick Williams, he was, he's a guy who's not like after his touches and his shots. He went to Florida State and he told them he was like, teach me to play defense. So maybe that's the sort of thing that really, that Weaver really likes. That's the only thing I can think of because it seems like he's just shot up everybody's draft boards. There were other rumors

of teams trying to trade above the Pistons. So like Atlanta is shopping their pick at number six and they're trying to get above the pistons because if it seems like people believe like if Williams is there at 7

the Pistons pick him up. So this kind of came out of nowhere. I haven't done much research on him yet. I've looked into him a bit but I see the appeal. What do you think? basically you and anybody else who's listened to our draft to our draft previews and just my general feelings in the draft knows that I really what I see is the Pistons needs.

Number one, number two, and number three are guys who can effectively create offense for themselves. Those are the guys who really drive offenses in this league. The offenses in this league are what drive success in general. And you've got to have those guys in the Pistons. as far as the future goes, currently have zero of them. And their lack of the very same as it's been what is, well, there have been plenty of things on offense that have doomed the pistons.

The pistons have lost on offense year after year after year after year since the end of the going to work era. That has been their downfall. They have been a crappy offensive team. Just bad. And that's why they've lost. That's why they have been an unsuccessful team. I mean, there are other factors, but it's, you know,

coaching goes into that as well. For example, and, you know, injuries don't. help, but just on the whole, the Pistons have just not had the personnel. So, Blake Griffin was the first really high-level offensive creative they've had in a long time. Blake Griffin is almost certainly not in the team's future plans. I think the Pistons would be content to move him for nothing but salary relief right now, if they could.

We might talk, but we'll talk a little bit more about it. We talked about that in the last episode, but we'll talk more about that, I think, later on in this episode, if not, you know, time permitting. If not, then then later on in a future episode. basically as far as the future is concerned the pistons have nobody like nobody on the roster except from kind of luke who can take the ball and manufacture offense off the dribble they just they don't and your offense absolutely needs those guys what is patrick williams patrick williams is a conceivably two-way athletic wing and you know two-way guys who can swing you know two-way athletic wing the super

super important to have in the NBA. That certainly was on that fact which everybody already knew was in full, on full display for Miami. They had Crowder, Igu Della, and Butler who were all able to switch on defense and knock down shots with three-point range. Excuse me, Butler. Couldn't really, but whatever the case. Just having these two-way athletic wings, guys, you can switch on defense, knock down open shots, and are just really athletic. Great. but you've got to have those guys who can create offense off the dribble at a high level if you want to be a successful team. So where my eyes go constantly is just the pistons don't have any of these guys. And they really need some.

And the best place to find them, of course, is going to be in the draft. Williams does not appear to be that kind of guy. So I haven't, just full of disclosure, I am not intimately familiar with Williams. I've done more research on him, intimately familiar with his draft details. Rather, I don't know the guy. obviously. So I've done some research on him ever since he was linked to the Pistons. The picture I'm getting, the inexper picture of him that I'm getting is as sure as a guy has a lot of potential. But right now, sure, you know, very good offball defender at the NCAA level still needs to grow as an on ball defender

doesn't necessarily have the best ability to create offense. So he might just end up, you know, and there are also questions about his. drive as a score. Not his drive as a player overall, but it's like, you know, is this a guy who defers too much, who is unselfish to a fault, who doesn't really have within him that desire to be overpowering on offense. Also, you know, though he's got a decent stroke off the dribble, his shot from three-point range is a little iffy.

He shot them on low volume, with not a particularly good percentage in the NCAA. So what I'm seeing is possibly a guy who just comes in and is a role player on offense and like it's it's really reassuring to to it sounds like you know here that the pistons are probably going to be in the you know in a multi-year rebuild here but i'm just I'm very hesitant to see them unless they really can really very confident that they'll be high in the draft order of the next two seasons I'm very hesitant to see them look at a guy who may not have a very high ceiling as a score if they do feel like oh sure we plan to be

in the running for Kate Cunningham next, you know, I keep wanting to say next summer. The NBA offseason will probably for good be in the fall now. So, you know, if you consider November the fall, I think that's probably when the draft maybe in October in the future, you know, it's whatever the case. But if they feel like, you know what, next year we'll be very confident we'll be in your position to select Kate Cunningham. And it's like, okay, cool. You've got, you've got Segudumboa, and you've got Patrick Williams, and maybe you've got

two, you know, really long athletic. two-way wings, or not wings, but these guys are more combo forwards. And it's like, okay, cool. Then I feel okay about it. I feel particularly okay about it if the Pistons managed to move Kinnard for some sort of some pick in the mid-teens and the Pistons took a flyer on one of the sort of boom or bust point guard prospects there. But, you know, call me ANSI, call me not necessarily fully confident that the Pistons

will be high in the draft over the next two seasons. It just makes me uneasy. But, you know, if there is some minor upside to looking at a guy who's a project and Williams is a project and saying, you know what, he's probably not going to help the West Pistons win games next season. And, you know, that's not a strength, but it's convenient. Right. Yeah. I definitely think he's an upside pick.

I don't think anybody. I think the reason that he's, he was as low as he was, is because, one, he played on pretty low volume. he was off the bench at Florida State. And I guess it's worth mentioning. He's one of the youngest players in the draft. I think he's still 18 or maybe just turned 19. But I think it's an upside pick.

I think this is kind of the sort of thing that we wanted to hire Weaver for. It's his ability to maybe pick out that guy who is coming in kind of rough. And maybe they believe that he can grow and he's a high value. Yeah, high value pick for the Pistons at 7 rather than taking a 7. rather than taking a safer pick. Yeah, my concern, just like I said, is just why it's primarily with his offensive upside. Yep, the shooting percentages.

It's not just the shooting percentages. It's like, will he be able to, will he become a guy who can take the ball and do something with it himself? Because those are really, really the guys you need, the guys, you know, you have to have, you have to be deep on the wing. I mean, these, again, these switchable, highway athletic guys who can knock down shots.

You have to be deep on the wing if you really want to be a successful team. You know, of course, everybody can break the rules. Like the Wakers were not like super strong in the wing, but, you know, they were, they had everything else. And you needed to super star talents. I mean, you got two top five offensive players than have fun. You can pretty much do whatever you want. But, you know, for the average team, yeah, being strong in the wing is going to be a major asset.

Piston have, of course, been dreadful. weak on the wing for a long time, long, long time. But if ultimately the guys who are going to win your championships or the guys are going to get you to conference finals are the guys who can take the ball and do things with it on their own at a high level. And, you know, I don't think Williams will be that. Maybe the pistons are banking on finding those guys in the draft in the future. But it just makes me a little bit nervous to see one, to see so much.

reported interest in a guy who, to me, doesn't really look like he's ever going to be an overpowering offensive presence. So, yeah, nothing much to say, I think further on Williams beyond, you know, we'll see. There have actually been some talk that other teams ahead of the Pistons. I think, was it the Hawks when he was connected? I don't remember.

Or teams who wanted to trade for the Hawks pick to somebody at the National overreported on it so that they could maybe take Williams. So oddly enough, a guy who wasn't really even being spoken of in the same sentences as the Pistons or even as top ten pick is now being spoken up in some quarters against, again, amongst national sources, as a guy who might even not be available when the Pistons are picking. So it's interesting. As far as Weaver's type, I think I've said this in the podcast before. I don't necessarily think we know Weaver's type because he was the guy, you know, he never made any of final decisions in Oklahoma City. that was Sam Presti. I mean, Weaver was the assistant general manager. So we'll see,

and maybe we'll hear more about that before the draft, though it's certainly coming up very quickly. So next up, we'll talk a little bit about Slamella Ball. There have been multiple reports that the Pistons might be interested in moving up. I would caution, just a word of caution, I would say all we know about Pistons so far is that they might have interest. They've looked into it, contact has been made. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. It could mean something, but it could also just mean that the Pistons looked into it and said, okay, well, you know, what would it cost us?

Or do you think you'll be moving this? You know, what are the chances you would be willing to move this pick because we want to draft this guy? Or, of course, what it would be is that that team would draft him, how it generally works in the drafts. The team drafts the guy and then trades him to the other team. So usually on draft night don't see the draft. at the pick itself change hands, though it doesn't really matter if it's the first overall

pick, then who cares, you know, because everybody's available at that point. Nonetheless, I mean, the Pistons, yeah, so, I mean, the Pistons clearly have made contact. Does that mean anything beyond just that they ask? Not necessarily. It might. What do your thoughts on the situation, Tony? Yeah, so pretty much every other player that the Pistons have looked at that we know of, we've started to see the media day interviews, and it seems like they're doing it in part.

So yesterday there were a few, and then today there were a few more. We haven't gotten to Lamello's yet, and some prospects are willing to say who they've worked with. We know that Killingh Hayes has worked out with the Pistons, same with Tyrese Halliburton. We haven't seen what Lamello, who Lamello has worked out with yet. But Weaver said in his press conference that they would like to meet with Lamella, And I don't think you'd do that unless you intend on at least seriously looking at, you know, what would it take to get this guy and is it worth it? I think it's, I know you're a lot lower on, like, the chances of it happening than I am. And I still don't think it's likely that it happens.

But given the fact that the top two teams in this draft seem like more than open to trading down, I don't think the price is that high. You know, the risk associated with, like, the guys at the top, like, these three guys, Anthony Edwards, La Mello Ball, James Wiseman. It's one of those things that I think a GM, you know, is looking at, like, well, if I screw his pick up, maybe I lose my job, you know. A top pick is a huge asset, and you have to, there's a lot of pressure to get it right. And these are just risky guys. So for a team like the Pistons who are just starting a rebuild, a lot of scouts think that, that Lamello is like a tier above everybody else in terms of like what he could be. And we've talked about him a little bit in the past, but in terms of upside, I know you're

a lot lower on his shooting potential than I am. But if he were to put it together, yeah, he's probably got the highest ceiling in this draft class. He's probably got the highest chance of being an all-star. And since the pistons, like you said, they need ball handlers, you know. that's his calling card, his passing. I think there is a real chance that, depending on whether the Pistons have met with Lamello in person

or if they plan to, I think there's a real chance that the Pistons trade up for him. There were some writers who indicated that we have looked into it already, trading up to the number one pick. I don't know. I'm still kind of up and down on Lamello. There are other guys that I think are more,

that are worth taking in the case of, like, when you consider that we would have to include other things to get up that way to him. But just based on what I've read and what we've seen, I think the interest is definitely for real. I mean, I'd say that there's interest. I mean, one thing I would say about this draft is, like, my goodness is this draft, like, as things look weak, like, weak draft, like, it's almost kind of just like the Pistons. This is we're looking at the last 11 years. It's almost just like the Pistons to finally.

choose to rebuild in a year when the draft is so bad. So, I mean, your ideal time to do like a short tank would have been in 2018 after, after Jackson got injured and just, you know, trade everybody in tank, go for it. And that was the Luca draft. So in any event, as far as Lamello goes, just to address it, you know, a couple of areas in which I disagree. And again, we've disagreed on the podcast before in the same thing. So I wouldn't be surprised if I said this before.

I think that Edwards has the highest ceiling just based on his capacity. It's a score and his physical gifts. There was spoken of his results of him testing at P3, which is this kind of major athletics. How would you describe P3? It's a performance and training center. That's what it is. It's very, very frequented by NBA players.

And they said that in certain physical areas, like jumping and in some capacity, some areas of explosiveness and stopping and starting again, Edwards had the best metrics that they had ever seen for somebody at shooting guard. So I think Edwards has the highest ceiling. I don't think Lamello has a high ceiling as a scorer because I think he'll, he's not very athletic by NBA standards. I think he'll struggle to, I don't think he'll ever be a particularly good score off the dribble, and I don't see him becoming a knockdown shooter.

He's got his gifts as a passer, of course, in his floor vision and his ability to handle the ball. but even though a lot of people are calling him the best talent in the draft I mean if you put him in another draft a normal draft so to speak where you have a few guys who are like we are really sure that these guys are star level talents you know how much talk would you be receiving

like in a 2018 draft for example with with Luca and Trey Young and so on it's like okay maybe you're like number six or number seven So I think just the weakness of this draft is leading that to become a little, it's just leading his potential to become a little bit overblown. I don't think it's, it's really that he has this great potential as a star. I think just that he has the highest potential in a relatively weak draft.

So, yeah, I do think the Pistons need ball handlers. They'll need a primary ball handler at some point, no matter what. I mean, that's just kind of a, sure, this is an increasingly positionless league, but if you want to be a successful team, you just have to have that lead ball handler who can create for himself and can create for others and preferably somebody

who's in the starting lineup who can do so at a secondary level. Sure, it doesn't need to be a point guard. I mean, that's certainly the case. Like you've got Janice, who's the primary handler for the box, for example. And Luca, who's shooting guard is the primary handler for, like,

it's almost nominal. I mean, you put him next to Seth Curry, who plays decent defense in Knox-down shot. But those are a couple of guys. And so it doesn't necessarily need to be a guy playing at point guard, though the Lakers just kind of disposed of any pretense and said, okay, we're just going to actually play LeBron at point guard rather than putting him like Miami did next to just kind of a nominal point guard who just shot a lot of threes.

And, of course, there was Kyrie and Cleveland for part of LeBron's tenure there. but Kyrie even was much less of an on-ball presence than Lebronelists. But you need that guy either way. And like the clippers, I think, amply demonstrated the folly of just saying, okay, we've got enough talents. We don't need somebody who can really handle the ball. And now they're sort of scrambling for to find a really good primary ball handler and good luck because they don't really have much to offer now. So no matter who it is in what position, sure, yeah, the pistons need that ball handler. But I'm looking for an effective ball handler, not just a guy who can pass, of course, to be an effective ball handler.

You need to be able to break down opposing defenses. And that means you have to be able to attack off the dribble and you have to be a threat. You have to be a threat in the sense that in basically a way that makes you an effective handler. You've got to be able to shoot. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. If you can't shoot, then you're instantly a much less effective ball handler because teams are much more likely to just leave you on your island at three-point. line and say, go ahead, shoot, you know, this is a mathematically advantageous situation for us if you do. And if you don't, it's still a mathematically advantageous situation for us because you're going to have a

much harder time to get into the basket because, you know, you can't beat somebody with, you know, with their first step if they're eight feet in front of you because they're not covering you. So, you know, we've gone over our concerns with Lamele mine and, you know, I think are stronger than yours. So I just, I don't think, I haven't really found him but is quite as attractive. And also I have major misgivings about, or concerns about his maturity. The concerns that have not been helped by the reports that teams have been really unimpressed with him in interviews, that they've ranged from, like, from, I believe the exact words, I could be wrong.

And for whoever came out with this snippet, I'm sorry, I'm not crediting you, because I can't remember your name. but it would be mediocre to bad. This is I believe the words or something akin to the words, whatever the case. The team's been very unimpressed by him in interviews. So moving on, though, just to the practicals of the situation, you know, not whether the Pistons should be interested in him. It's like, what could they possibly offer is my question. I don't think it's even remotely possible that the Pistons would trade a 2021 pick. even just not a good idea.

It's a super stack draft. I don't think Weaver would even entertain that unless he could like top 20 protect it or at least the lottery protect it. And Minnesota and Golden State would say we don't watch a lottery protect pick. You know, we can get something better for somebody else. And beyond that, you know, or a 22 pick even. I mean, I'd say the first pick, the Pistons should be even considering trading is 2024. Even then it's like, I don't think they're in a position to be trading. picks at all. And after that, what do you have? I mean, you have Luke Kinnard, but he's not that

valuable. I don't think Luke Kinnard's going to jump you five spaces in the draft. I don't think they're going to trade Seku. Nobody knows what he is yet, but I don't think they're going to trade him. And that's it. We talked in the last episode about why we think the trade between the Golden State Warriors and the Pistons with Griffin involved is very unlikely. The Pistons just, they are very asset poor. Thanks to a lot of mismanagement, they are are very asset poor. So, like, when you rebuild, I mean, the Pistons traded away a bunch of guys or got rid of a bunch of guys from last year, a lot of veterans, and they got next to nothing out of it. It was still the right move, but it just goes to show you what the core was like that they had

assembled, that it was worth nothing on the trade market. So they did not have any sort of headstop. So I don't think the Pistons, even if they wanted to, would have the package that is necessary to trade up because I don't think they'd be willing to trade future picks. And I don't think, I disagree with your notion that there's pressure on these front offices. Rosas, who's the general manager of the Timberwolves, he's only been around for a year. I don't think he's really feeling the pressure so much of saying, you know, I don't want to bosh this pick, so I'm going to trade it down. I think as far as the Warriors are concerned, I'd say Bob Myers is more or less immune at this point. I mean, he's presided over, you know, part of his thanks to Durant, but it's, but Myers himself has presided over a period of tremendous success for the Warriors, like one of the most successful teams, you know, ever in terms of the time period over which they were competitive.

So I don't think the pressure is there. I just think that these are two teams that are like, you know, the Timberwolves say, well, this isn't the greatest draft. So they were kind of willing to trade down if we feel like it will benefit us. And the Warriors is saying, well, we're kind of win and want to win now. So maybe we'll trade this if we get something that we feel will help us. more in that capacity than actually going to pick. I just don't think the Pistons have anything to offer. I think that even though the price of moving up

is probably lower now than it is in the average draft, I think any team, if it's that low, any team will still be able to outpit the Pistence. So, yeah, I mean, I think there is pressure on the wolves. They traded away their first rounder with some protections on it for next year. And like you alluded to earlier, that's considered to be a really, really good draft.

So they don't want, that pick went to the Warriors as part of the Wiggins trade. They don't want the Warriors to be picking really high with their picks. So I think if they can find more, I don't know, stable or quantified value or you know what you're getting, I think they're looking for that because, you know, Rosas took a risk trading for DeAngelo to keep Carl Anthony Towns happy. So I think there is pressure there. And then as far as the Warriors go, maybe it's not. not so much pressure, but they're trying to extend maybe this window that they have with Stefan Clay, and maybe they don't feel like ball is a good fit there.

Maybe they don't feel like Edwards is a good fit there, although it's worth mentioning that Edwards has worked out with the Warriors. So maybe they're looking at Wiseman. They're like, well, maybe there's somebody else that we can get for him. I think, yeah, maybe they're not on the hot seat necessarily, but I certainly do think. that there is pressure to get these picks right and i think the optics of trading down getting solid value and somebody who contributes and taking a safer pick at like six or seven uh maybe that's that's like the type of thing that they are more interested in doing that's that's why i think

the values of these these top picks this year we talked about this in the last one are pretty strange it seems like everybody kind of wants to trade down into like the four through seven or like the 10th spot because there are like these pretty obvious appealing prospects that seem safe, but they're just a little bit more limited. And then the top picks are like just such a crap shoot in this draft. Like the upside is there, but there's so much risk. It seems like some of them just don't want to deal with that. I think their issue is that the upside isn't really there.

As far as compared to other drafts, you look at the potential top picks, and you don't have that kind of pick where you're like, man, this is the guy. Like no Zion, you know, obviously, you know, of course, people would say Zion doesn't come along very often. But you usually have that kind of small group of players you can look at and say, we're really confident in these guys. And one of them, at least one of them when you're like that this guy could really be a star or really has superstar talent. You know, there isn't even that one guy in the draft. So I think the upside isn't, I don't think there's any player in this draft where now you look at and you say, man, this guy could be an absolute super. game-changing superstar if he gets it all together, I don't think Lamello is in that category.

I think Lamello, if he brings it all together, is best suited to be the second best guy in a championship team. And he would be the second next guy next to an elite score because I don't think Lamello will ever be anywhere near an elite score. And I also believe that the NBA model has shown us that you're not going to get to where you want to go if you have championship aspirations by just having a defense that revolves around one guy handling the ball to default the entire time. So, yeah, I just, I think that the, just the talent isn't there. And that's why teams are much more willing to trade down by the value on the number one, number two picks, not quite as high. Of course, with the Warriors, it's just an unusual situation. It's like everything went wrong.

And so in a way, everything went, you know, if everything is going to go wrong, then, or if there's some things are going to go wrong, then it's great if they all go wrong at the same time for one season. And that's what happened to the Warriors. So I think your likeliest trade down, you know, if say like the hornets really want lamella ball and the timber wolves say, the roses in particular, it says, okay, well, we'd be content with that words. Then they trade down to number three. I think that's the likelihoodest trade down you're likely to see from the timber wolves, maybe to number four, maybe to the bulls. but I think the Timberwell still wants to know that they're getting something good out of it. Obviously, that goes without saying. I mean, what you said is that sure, yeah, they have traded their pick.

And I think that for better or worse, there will be a desire, you know, conscious or otherwise, to avoid missing out as a result. You know, they'll want to be good, not just to be good, but so that they're not like, you know, crap. Like, look at how awesome that draft is. And we gave up a pick that was in the top five. I think they'd really, really like to avoid that situation. So, yeah, they want to be getting something back that will help them win next season. So, but I just don't see how the Pistons get in there.

I don't see how the, I mean, as much as the Pistons might have interest, as as much as they might like ball, even though that goes completely against what is, what is supposed to be Weaver's archetype of guys who are, you know, you draft personality, you draft really athletic guys. Lamello is neither of those, you know, if it's neither of those criteria. I think it's all kind of a moot point because I don't think that Weaver, who is by all accounts, and a student individual, will trade away something that's, to trade away a major future asset, like a first-round pick.

I just don't think he'll do it. And if the timber won't. Hopefully he doesn't. I don't think that, I don't think that's the implication that he, I don't think that he will. You know, I don't think they would have looked into it. I don't think the pistons would be tied to this many rumors from reliable sources if it wasn't like something that they were actually looking into. And well, yeah, I mean, we said that.

I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I understand what you're going to. Yeah. The pistons do seem to be poking around everywhere. Their name pops up in a lot of rumors, but I think, I thought this one was worth mentioning. Oh, I agree. It's worth mentioning. But again, I think the proviso has to be laid on this that looking into it doesn't necessarily mean, like, man, we're going to do whatever we can to get this guy. It also doesn't mean, you don't really have to look at the practical before you look into it. You don't have to, you know, teams, you know, there's no harm in looking into things. It doesn't cost you anything. So you don't have to sit down and say, we think we can definitely do it. We've got a great package before you go

and look into things. I think it's wise to just do your due diligence, gather your data. And, yeah, you've mentioned that the Pistons are looking to work him out. When you're at number seven, you've got a pretty good idea of who's going to be around and therefore just doing due diligence on anybody who go in the top 10 is not a bad idea because you never know somebody might slide with Lamello it seems unlikely but you know you want to have all the data you can I'd say having those 10 workouts and getting all 10 of them

is most importance for teams that are outside the lottery because who knows who's going to be available so maybe you find a bunch of guys that you like you get all the data, you find a bunch of guys that you like, and then you have a fair shot at one of them still being available. But I don't think the fact that the pistons want to work him out necessarily means that they have, like, strong designs on him. I think that's, you know, why not do it?

You know, why not do it? You know, maybe, maybe he'll drop. And in this situation, it's like, maybe you find out something about him that's, make you say, man, if he drops, we don't want him. So I just don't think the fact that they've looked into it really necessarily means anything. I think it still comes down. I don't think that they would have made looking into it a pre-re-re- I don't think that having a package that would be, you know, practically likely to allow the Pistons to draft up in number one or number two would be a prerequisite for them looking into it. I think that they just looked into it.

I think it all just comes back to they don't have anything to offer that other teams could not easily be without mortgaging the future. So that's Lamello. I'll talk a little bit about Killian Hayes. I've been high on him in the past. I went digging a little bit more on Hayes. Actually, it was the low-posted podcast about him. Heard some things I didn't necessarily really like quite as much. I remember who it was.

Just said some things to put it in the context. Basically, that for Hayes, could have played in a better league, but ended up in the German League in the Euro Cup. And basically was on a team, it was radio from home on which they said, do your thing. and, you know, we're fine with the mistakes you make. So basically this was a team that was playing around him. He was not playing against a particularly good competition.

And he had his share of flaws there. And again, so sorry to, it was Jonathan Gibney or Mike Schmitz, I don't know which. Basically, like, you know, this is how he looks in a system that is absolutely and completely catering to him. How is he going to look with these flaws in an NBA system where he's up against much better players? and this isn't a team that's going to be likely saying, you know, do whatever the hell you want and we'll be fine with it. Maybe some team will, but he'll be playing against much better players. So, yeah, it just painted him in a much less complimentary light than the research I had done. Like what I was saying before, it's not like I just, you know, flip through a couple of, you know, a couple of documents and say, okay, I know everything about this guy.

You know, I did a decent amount of look through into Killian Hayes, but that's just sort of paints. things into a different context. I still think he might be, depending on who is selected, I still think he should be a consideration for the Pistons. Again, not the strongest draft in the Pistons are picking seventh in him. So, yeah, I just, I don't feel as hot on him as I had in the past, put it that way. You have any new thoughts about him, Tony? Yeah, I wanted to bring him up because I still think he is one of the likely picks, especially if somebody trades above us take Patrick Williams or if like last second they sour on him.

The rumor that was interesting to me was that the Bulls and the Pistons like Killian and he's in the mix with four to five others and a lot of people seem really high on him for various reasons. Some I think are, I don't know, a little more ridiculous than others, but

he has good size. I mean, we've talked about him extensively. It's just worth mentioning Killian because he is, still in the mix. It was confirmed that he worked out for the Pistons today. And the interest is still there. That's really, there's more to talk about with him, and I would like to at some point. But I guess just bring up the fact that the Pistons are still interested in him is worth mentioning.

Yeah, just for the full list of players who've worked out for the Pistons, it has been Hayes, Lewis, Hampton, Halliburton, and Nesmith. That's the full list. For those wondering about Anthony Edwards, you know, obviously, that would say it's virtual certainty. This is one of access to him, but he has only worked out with the teams that hold the top three picks. It's the Hornets, the Warriors, the Wolves. So, yeah, I, like you said, still think he's a decent likelihood that he goes to the distance.

He still does have upside. He still could be a good NBA player. I just feel a little bit less good about him than I had in the past. past. I said he's still very young. You know, you're not drafting like a 21, 22 year old player here. Hayes will be, Hayes turned 19 years old, like, you know, about less than four months ago. So he'll be 19 and a half when he starts his first NBA season. And he's got a lot of potential. So anybody else from the draft you'd like to talk about today? I mean, we have, Tommy and I have plans to do one last pre-draft. episode prior to the draft probably would be posted maybe Monday night excuse me

at probably Tuesday morning or Wednesday morning preferably the former rather than letter so we'll go over some final draft stuff at that time but anything else just the purposes of this episode do you yeah the last one I think worth mentioning is my guy especially in like the last week I've I've been up and down on Killian A's versus Tyrese Halliburton but I think now I'm pretty firmly pro-Halliburton. I think he's probably my favorite of the four guys that we've talked about between Lamello, Patrick Williams, Killing Hayes. Admittedly, you've got to do more research on Patrick Williams,

but I think long-term Halliburton is the guy that I think has the best chance that contributing to winning basketball. And Schmits, who definitely seems connected, he said Halliburton's range is on the back end, 4 through 8. the Pistons pick at seven. Halliburton worked out for the Pistons, and the teams that Halliburton worked out for, actually, they're all fairly high.

I think the Pistons might be the lowest. He said he doesn't have any more workouts planned. That could change, of course. But he's confirmed to have workouts with, or he said he had workouts with the wolves, the warriors, the bulls, and the Pistons. So I guess that kind of speaks to, like, what other teams think of him, the outside that they think he provides.

And I'm really happy that the Pistons seem to be in that area and that they seem to want Halliburton. Yeah, I'm not convinced that he will still even be available. I don't think it's likely that the Warriors would really have much interest in him. But who knows? I mean, he is sort of not a win-now player, but a guy who can come in and contribute immediately. and they are a little thin. I don't even know who their backup point card is.

I mean, I think that's the role that they envisioned for him. I think it's the backup point card. So what the Warriors used to do back when Livingston was around, he only retired recently, but they particularly did this back during the early days of that sort of dynasty, like 2015, 2016, 2017. I'm not sure if it continued.

But they would put Curry on the floor with Thompson, start, of course. And after a little while, you know, usually relatively late in the, in the first quarter, maybe after eight or nine minutes. They take Thompson out. They'd put Sean Livingston in, and they'd kick Curry over to shooting guard. So basically, Curry didn't need to do as much work. And Livingston would be the backup point guard.

Livingston wasn't a particularly good shooter. He could post up smaller guards, actually quite effectively. And, you know, it was decent at creating his own offense. So I think maybe that's something that they'd believe, and Livingston be the one to defend the shooting guard in the other end. Curry would still be a point-ground defender. So maybe that's what they envisioned for Halliburton, and I'm going to say, that'd be a decent role for him.

And, I mean, the warriors, you know, they have the luxury of choice. Sure, it'd be nice for them to get a center. You know, if wise men to really pan out, I don't think they'll really bite into Congo. But, and I wouldn't have ever them at number two in a traditional center. Who knows what I'd develop into, but I wouldn't. You know, they could just as easily go ahead with Kavan Lu, me and just say, screw it. You know, we've got so much talent, we're just going to punt it center again.

And that could be perfectly fine. And that means taking Halliburton could be a perfectly viable option. The next team you look at, of course, and we both said this is the Hawks. So I think if the, I think it's highly unlikely that he'll be available in the Pistons pick. Put it that way. And I've said in the past that I don't think he's the ideal Pistons pick because he's not a guy who's likely to get a great deal done in his own. is more of like a really high level comp, Cooper Jackson is a high level complimentary player.

But just getting that sort of assurance from Weaver that, well, not assurance, but, you know, good vibes from Weaver as far as the length of the rebuild goes. You know, it's, it's kind of like Williams. It's like, okay, if you can't contribute immediately, then, excuse me, if he's not, if the Pistons don't need to draft a guy who's, I think basically they now have the luxury of patience.

They don't need to go for that guy right now. who's necessarily going to be able to create that offense himself, who's going to be that really big offensive weapon. They can instead go for guys that they think will be really good pieces and then try to nap those really fundamental core offensive players later on in the rebuild. So I wouldn't be too upset if they drafted him. I would be upset, of course, if Killian Hayes came along and turned into a top 10 point guard. So, you know, that's your fear of missing eye.

right but i don't think it'll be unless the pistons trade up i don't think it's going to be an option they're going to have i think he'll be gone i don't think killian hayes will be gone and and uh one thing uh again i don't remember if he was schmits or given he who said this but uh teams don't seem to know where hayes will go i mean uh it's it's entirely possible he could fall uh into the weight lottery um you know that i can't speak to of course i'm just repeating what somebody else said. But, you know, Hayes also, Hayes does certainly strike me as a guy who would be a late lottery pick

in a draft of average strength, given his weaknesses. You know, don't know if you can shoot and don't know if you can use your right hand. Those would be much, those flaws would be, would have dropped them, I think, significantly further in the average draft. So we're about an hour in. Is there anything else you'd think we should really cover

in today's episode? I guess I just wanted to say that I think this is, I like the way that this draft is shaping up for the Pistons. I like the prospects that they're working out. I think it all seems like they're looking towards more of a long-term plan, which Kieber has explicitly said, but I guess I'm just relieved that the guys that they're looking at aren't necessarily the short-term best player available.

It really seems like they're going for the upside guys or the complimentary players who they think can contribute a few years from now rather than taking like an OB-topping and, you know, he dunks a lot. But I guess I'm just, I wanted to mention these rumors and like talk about this stuff because I think it's very encouraging and exciting. I think there's a lot to look forward to next Wednesday. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it doesn't, it's been like, you know, speaking in terms of the average. NBA timeline. You know, it's been a relative eternity since we've seen anything Pistons

related. Like, it's been since the middle of March. By the time this draft is held on the 18th, it will have been more than, I believe, just about eight months, maybe a little bit more than eight months since we watched the Pistons play against the 76 was before everything was called off, and that was that. I mean, you're never, anybody who's followed any American sport behind, excuse me, beyond hockey, I believe eight months is longer than than you've ever waited for anything significant to happen. Hockey, of course, because they lost the entire lockouts, and I believe they still held the draft that year. So, but no, she never mind. I mean, it would have been a year after the previous draft, so sorry, baseball in there. Yeah, so for hockey fans,

it's like, yep, you had to wait a full calendar year. I wasn't really quite as into hockey back then, fortunately. So, but it's been a very long time. So I'm looking forward to things getting started again, definitely, and it'll be a busy week. I don't think, well, who knows? I doubt we'll see the Pistons. Who knows? It's not really neat to speculate.

I don't know what big trades the Pistons could make. So who knows, I don't think we'll see much come up on Monday. We could see some interesting things happen around the league. Then we get the drafts two days later. And then we got three agency two days after that. So I'll definitely be interested and I'm pretty excited too. So that'll be up for today's episode. As always, thank you for listening.

We'll see you next time.