Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 213: Early Preseason Thoughts

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

This episode discusses takeaways -- to the extent that takeaways from two preseason games are valid -- from preseason so far.

Welcome back, everybody. You're listening to another episode of Driving to the Basket. I'm Mike and I hope you're all doing super, super well today. So we are off. Preseason has begun. We're a couple of games in. I'm going to be posting this on the morning of game number three, which kind of makes me a little uncomfortable

because maybe we'll see something very relevatory in that game. I doubt it, but I've never really liked posting episodes in the same day as games, just because there's a capacity for some things to change. but here we go anyway. It's on a Friday night and I'd prefer not to post an episode on the weekend. It just doesn't seem like a great time to post an episode. Anyway, I digress. None of this is particularly interesting.

Definitely envious of any of you who managed to attend the game at Breisland Center. I was very close to where I grew up. I grew up about a 20-minute drive from Michigan State, so saw plenty of games at Breisland throughout my childhood and adolescence. I have not been back. in a long time. I live about a thousand miles away at this stage. And yeah, so anyway, I'm sure it was cool experience aside from the Izone being full of purple jerseys. But I guess that's what you got if you're Matt Isbia and you played for the team, though I know Tom Goraz went to school there as well.

So in any event, let's talk preseason. Let's talk some takeaways so far and some questions that I have, which may or may not be answered until the season begins, probably. In any event, a first takeaway from preseason, and I know I say this every season, but the first takeaway, in my opinion, for anybody, should be that it's preseason. This is a time for teams to do experiments and teams to not necessarily take things 100% seriously. See what might work. See what might not work.

Just see what they have. And things are just going to be different than they are on the regular season. Teams are going to run some lineups that they are maybe. wouldn't be willing to run in the regular season, play players whom, if they're trying to win, they would not probably be willing to play in the regular season. So things are going to look a little bit different. It's a time just for teams to work things out. In addition to just getting, of course, some players time on the court and getting them warmed up for the regular season, these guys, aside from training camp, I mean, it's a long off season in the NBA. It's longer

if you're not in the playoffs, and it's considerably shorter if you make it to the finals. But the constant is that for everybody who's not playing in summer league, which is the vast, vast, vast majority of players, you don't have any really truly competitive five-on-five against other NBA players between when your season ends and late September at training camp, or if you're counting just games against other teams, then preseason, you know, in early October. So it's a pretty long layover. Even if you make the finals, I mean, that's June. It's about four months. It's time off that I'm sure a lot of these players are very happy to have, especially if you make the playoffs, because I can only imagine how exhausting that must be, you know, to be playing 82 games

and then well into June. But in any events, just part of preseason is just getting these guys time on the court against NBA opposition in an organized fashion. So I know I'm saying this, and it's kind of ironic in the context of, you know, talking about whatever preseason takeaways and saying that preseason isn't really something to take a ton away from. kind of makes me feel like Ron Swanson, like I'm working for the government and trying to eliminate my own job. But in any event, there are some things you can take away from preseason. I'm just saying, I'm just saying I think it's important not to take it too seriously.

Like last season, the cracks showed up very early with the Jaden Ivy situation in preseason. But that's a very, very different story. I think at that point it was more like, uh, it'd be. shouldn't be happening this way. Even in preseason, this is looking like things are going to go very badly. And of course, last season, the decision making, it was very, very bad. But let's segue from there into, you know, talking very, very briefly about that bad coaching, which I always say I would like to never talk about again.

And maybe I'll actually do that someday. But let's talk about the coaching now. Obviously, I can say this goes without saying this is a breath of fresh air too. have a coach who, well, number one, clearly cares. And number two, I feel dirty even talking about last season's coach for 30 seconds. Anyway, yeah, Bickerstaff obviously clearly cares. The Pistons have like a genuine NBA coach, which was not the case. Last season has not been the case for about a year and a half since Dwaynesey.

I'll say again that if Bickerstaff is merely competent, like an average NBA coach, who would be the best coach the Pistons have had in more than a decade. Or again, for those of you who didn't like Flip Saunders, then 20 years, Larry Brown, almost 20 years, Larry Brown, who left the Pistons in an unbelievably unprofessional way in 2005, but, you know, he won a championship at the team. It's just, you know, if he had his head screwed on a little bit tighter, then they might have won two. In any case, so what have we seen from J.B. Baker staff so far? Now, I reiterate, excuse me, with J.B. Baker-Staff, that his weakness tends to be on offense, and it's not that he's a bad offensive coach, it's just that the standard for NBA coaches is just up and up and up and up, just like players.

And so he's just not the most innovative offensive minds, which means that, I don't know, he can, I'm sure we'll see some foibles on offense, to put it that way. Whereas, you know, his strength tends to be as a defensive coach. Not a bad offensive coach, just can be flawed from time to time. But in any case, you know, if he's just average, again, he'll be the best coach the business have had in a long time. I'd like to, I'd love to get, you know, into talking about how Van Gundy and Casey did things and, you know, on a more granular level. But that was a long time ago. And we're talking about preseason.

Anyway. So what we've seen from him on offense, just a lot more off ball movement, a lot more innovation, much more variability in sets, more complex sets, like players being. utilized more to their strengths. I like that Ivy is actually, you know, as Baker staff said in this introductory press conference or something that he'd like to get Ivy catching the ball more on the move. We've seen more of that. We've seen what I've always liked about the heat, which is just kind of the drive-and-kick and kick and kick on the perimeter until you get yourself an open shot. We've seen Jayland Duren doing some playmaking. We've just seen.

some, again, just more variability. And, you know, a decent generation of open shots. Hitting those open shots has been a bit of a different story. And this looks like more of a regular NBA offense. Nothing special, but, you know, I like how it's looking in terms of being run as just a decent, competent NBA offense, which obviously last season's coach didn't do. Dwayne Casey didn't do. And Stan Van Gundy really didn't do very well either.

So, I mean, for me, of course, the standard is, I mean, it's a little bar to follow. It's a little bar to meet an average vast majority of NBA coaches are average. And so, well, maybe not the vast majority, but the majority. And so it's a pretty small ask, and it's one that I hope will see this season. So it looks like a functional offense. Nothing on the, out of the ordinary wow side, but functional is going to be a huge leap. So that's been a relief. I don't know much to say beyond that.

We'll see how it goes into the regular season, but I expect that we will see a solid but unspectacular offensive scheme being run. I would have loved to have a really good offensive coach. And I think the Pistons, once they, to win a championship, you basically have to have a good, you know, a very talented offensive mind as a coach unless you've got an overwhelming amount of talent.

Mike, yeah, I guess the Bucks did it, even though Boothin'Hawls was a bad offensive coach. though they were up against a pretty poor playoff coach themselves, who will remain unnamed, who coached the Sons. And Vogel did it in 2020, but, you know, LeBron and AD, and that heat team, as with basically any heat team overachieved, and then Butler was just too tired.

And then you look at the rest, and in recent years, Steve Kerr, Nick Nurse, Michael Malone, and Missoula, who has found really impressive. but these are the days in the future when the Pistons will hopefully be in championship contention. And we'll see if Bicker staff is around at that point. That's a ways in the future. Across that bridge when they come to it. So in any case, yeah, it's just if they have just a basic functional offense, it'll just be such a relief.

Just a coach who doesn't make obviously stupid mistakes. So it's probably going to turn just a note into a relatively short episode just because there's not a, ton to talk about after two preseason games. But anyway, I digress. Let's move on. So we'll go in no particular order here. Actually, I will go in a particular order. Tobias Harris, we haven't gotten to see yet. And just a remark about his absence.

Tobias is a player who is going to be able to provide steady offense, some creation off the dribble, some shooting, just a veteran presence who can create his own offense to a degree. I think he has been missed in the starting lineup. that respect. It just basically comes down to Caden Ivy. And, you know, the Pistons have been starting Beasley and Tim Hardley. Have they been starting Beasley, Tim Hardley, Jr. It's just a different sort of lineup. So let's talk Jaden Ivy, who I think has been the best player for the Pistons and preseason so far. So obviously, Jaden had a promising second half of his rookie season.

unfortunately ran into completely outrageous circumstances last season. It's not ideal when you're playing on a pretty bad team and you're going up against your own coaching staff. So what we've seen out of Ivy so far, certainly just more confident play. He's always been a confident player, but, you know, if your coach is taking the floor out from under you on a regular basis, it's kind of hard to be confident as a young player in the NBA,

a little bit harder. So, yeah, he's been a lot more confident. He's being used more judiciously. Again, for example, having him catch the ball off the move, and if Jaden Ivy is catching the ball off the move, it's going to be very difficult to stop him. And in those circumstances, when help does come, it's inevitably going to, I mean,

it's almost certainly going to come from the opposing center, and that opens up Jalen Durner, Isaiah Stewart, and Ivy has been good at finding him. Ivy has been pretty good at just making the extra pass in general, even in full flight. And full flight is pretty fast for him, whether in transition or in the half court. And as far as transition is concerned, I'd like to reiterate that Ivy was, I mean, he wasn't like hyper-efficient transition last season, but he was a very high-volume transition score because he runs the open floor extremely well.

Now he's been scoring reasonably well at the basket. Maybe the biggest thing for me is that his shot form, and this is huge for the pistons, if he can keep it together. His shot form is, in my opinion, much improved. It's much more compact. It's much more buttoned up. And there's a great deal less extraneous movement, which is a big deal. And Ivy actually as a rookie, late in his rookie season, managed to, you know, his shot form had grown to not look exactly like this, but look quite a bit more regular. Just a lot less movement in his lower body in particular. So, but also just more compact form. in his arms. So that unfortunately, I mean, in the past, we'll put it this way,

his shot form has kind of fluctuated based on how he's been doing, like in periods of better play. His shot has looked better. I'm not sure if that was the case last season, but as a rookie, yeah. And it was weird to me that his shot looked a lot better at the end of his rookie season, and then his sophomore season came along, and suddenly at many points, it really just looked like a sloppy mess. But, you know, he's been working with Vince.

and, you know, clearly that's, I believe, paid some dividends, and then his shot just looks a lot better. And that would be a huge thing for the pistons. Not only is that just more spacing, more shooting, but when you have a player who's hyper athletic like Ivy is and he can shoot the three reliably, is just a situation where you're presenting defenses with some bad options, some things they really have to track

and some bad options. Because, you know, if you can't leave Ivy over, because he's going to make the three. Well, that's just another guy you have to track. Also, it makes things that much more difficult because he's an extremely fast off-ball mover and an aggressive one as well. But also, like, let's say you close out on Jaden Ivy.

I know I used to say this about Hamad O'Diola, like if he were able to develop a shot, you never did. But, yeah, with Ivy, if you have to close out on him, it's going to be very difficult for your defense to recover because if he doesn't manage to get to the basket, which he has every, you know, because he's going to blitz into the interior very quickly, then it's very likely your center is going to have to come help.

And then the pistons are likely to get a high percentage opportunity under the basket from Duren or Stewart or Reed or whoever's there. And if that's not the case, I mean, your defense at that point is just so discombobulated that you're likely to get a good opportunity, just from a kickout and what we've been seeing from, you know, certainly emphasized under Baker staff, just kicking the ball out around the perimeter until you find a guy who's got a wide open three.

And that's certainly being emphasized. Again, I always come back to the heats offense, which is basically not just drive and kick and kick and kick and kick around the perimeter, but drive and kick and maybe you kick and maybe you drive and kick. And it just goes on and on and on until the defense is completely hopeless. but anyway, even a lesser version of that looks good. So yeah, Ivy, if he has his shot together, I mean, it's not only that, but just his ability to complete plays from the perimeter.

You know, fantastic. I don't know why the guy still likes to spot up at times, like two feet behind the line. He did that at Purdue as well. I don't get it. But, of course, we'll have to see how it translates over a longer term, but I'm very encouraged at how his shot looks. and I'm very encouraged at the fact that he's being, you know, actually given the opportunity he deserves and that the team should be giving him because he could potentially be a pretty important player.

Looking for, you know, going forward. Moving on to his partner in the back court, Kate Cunningham has started a bit slow, hasn't really been used quite as creatively, has really still is doing a lot of attacking off the dribble and the pick and roll. And, yeah, it's been a slow start. And this season might show us if Cade is just the slow starter. Some players are just slow starters. They take a little bit of time to get going in any given season. And that's needless to say not ideal.

Last season it took Cade, I think, until game 14. Extenuating circumstances, of course. But he did get a lot better after that. In his rookie season, he had that injury. And it took him until around game 20. So, you know, about same amount, 14, 15 games to really get going, you know, after he missed four or five games early in the season. So that's really not what you want to see, especially if your team's trying to win. So hopefully that's, it's not, you know,

the case when the season gets rolling. It's just Cade's game is sort of different. Cade, yeah, really just is a possession-heavy primary handler who lives in the pick and roll. So not really a ton to say there. He's buttoned things up a little bit on defense, and I should note about Ivy. Also, So, you know, he's still having his struggles, but he is, I think, being a lot more, I think he's done some work as far as being more aware of the play in terms of just trying to make the right rotation and just knowing what's, just keeping track of the guys around him. We'll see if that actually pays dividends, and his defense hasn't been good, but it hasn't been quite as bad.

I have no concerns about Jaden Avey's defensive work ethic. The guy's going to work hard at everything. It's a matter of his defensive awareness and decisions. making. Cade has gotten, he was making puzzling defensive mistakes last season. Again, basically everybody was much more headless than they had been before. Last, you know, last season, just everybody was dumber than they should have been. He's made a few mistakes during preseason of the same boneheaded sort, though,

just ball watching and not paying attention to his man, which remains a little bit puzzling to me because he's such a smart player. but we'll see how that that proceeds into the regular season. J.1 Duren, speaking of defense, still running about half a second behind, which is a little distressing to see. And he's not moving really quite at the season, moving faster and, you know, paying more attention on defense than he did last season. But I feel like he was just quicker as a rookie, you know, more explosive movements,

more decisive. And we're still not seeing that out of him at this stage of preseason, but also, yeah, just the, excuse me. voice was getting a bit scratchy there. So just, you know, the pick and roll defense, the overall decision making, it's not like outright bad, it's still poor. He's just, his processing is just running a little bit behind. And again, preseason, but it would love to have seen him come out and hit the ground

running in that capacity because that's the most important thing for him this season. And defense and period, the defense has got to. be there as a traditional center. Yeah, he improved a lot on offense, but as a traditional center, who's still not going to be doing much creating and more to the point can't shoot. I mean, yeah, as a traditional big, you've got to have the defense. And that's the most important, single most important thing for him going forward. If he becomes an above average defender with his current offensive skill set, that's a very good player, with this current offensive skill set, and, you know, if he becomes a below average defender, if he doesn't really

improve all that much from where he is right now, then the pistons will have to seek out ultimately a different option for a starting center going forward. Again, preseason, probably want to wait in order to make sweeping judgments, I'd say, you know, wait until like the first quarter of the season is over for any of these players. This is just very, very, very early first glimpses. This is, you know, this is the prevailing subject. So, you know, but would have liked to have seen a little bit more from him early on. Malik Beasley, as expected, basically just an elite

catch and shoot guy. I think there, I hope that, you know, the mid-range jumpers will be worked out of his game in the regular season. Again, pre-season, sometimes guys are just being allowed to do things they wouldn't be allowed to do in the regular season when ruthless efficiency on the offensive end

is, you know, to make a very, very, very small Monty Python reference there from the Spanish acquisition skit. So yeah, ruthless efficiency on offense is really stressed by any competent coach. But yeah, his job is basically to make threes. Here's what you're going to get on to Malik Beasley, a guy who's going to be able to hit his catch and shoot threes at a high percentage, who's maybe going to do okay on some motion threes, and is going to be able to attack close outs and

probably not get to the basket, but can be relied upon to generally make a good pass. So, like, you have to come defend him. And he's, he's capable. of making some fairly good pass is not like anything brilliant, but they'll find the right guy. That's what he's there to do. His defense has been better than I had expected. I mean, he has always, at least for a while, I've been good at getting steals, for example, and just being disruptive, but he's just done a better job on the awareness side of things and just staying in front of guys to this point. So if Maliki Beaselie can just be a below average defender, that would be a big win, versus worse than below average.

Then we look to Tim Hardaway Jr., who so far has been completely terrible. Number one, it's just him not missing his shots, but I think that you can also just see, I mean, I didn't watch much of Tim Hardaway Jr. last year. The guy just looks slow. I mean, he's, he has 32 at this point. I mean, so guys often will start slowing down a little bit. But, yeah, I mean, on defense, it's been a problem just between. his, you know, his relatively poor mobility and his pretty poor defensive IQ.

So I'm curious to see, you know, if ultimately, and again, preseason, but he's probably the player I've been lowest on so far because I think that's, you know, defensively speaking, I don't think this team's going to be very good, but man, as Tim Hardaway Jr. look terrible on defense. I think the shooting will come along, but yeah, the decision making, even on offense has not been great. And it'll be interesting to see if either Beasley or Hardaway ends up out of the rotation in favor of, I don't know, maybe Marcus Sasser

if he really surprises. The issue with having both Hardaway Jr. And Beasley on the team, as I think I said, during, you know, shortly after they were brought on the team, is you really don't want both of them on the floor at the same time because they fill a very similar niche. Now, they're shooting specialists. That's what they do.

They finish plays. You know, they track gravity and they finish plays from the perimeter. And, you know, they might attack some closeouts. But, yeah, just finishing. They don't really create much offense, if any, in any given game. If you have them both on the floor, then that's just skill overlap that you really don't want. So, yeah, but it would just be interesting to see how the rotation is being run there. I mean, they'll have some value just as veteran presence as even if they're not playing very much.

But I'm curious. It'll be interesting to see. how that's worked out. Because, yeah, you just really don't want them on the floor at the same time. It's just going to reduce the value of them both, and they're both definitely minuses on the defensive end. Speaking of Sasser, not really much to see there. I mean, it's been in the minutes he's seen,

which have largely been against, like, bench and deep bench. Pretty much exclusively been against a bench and deep bench. I mean, it has been striking to see that he's basically not in the rotation. You know, he's gotten in in the third and fourth quarters when the other team has not really been playing at starters. I think that's just kind of likely to be the case. He's going to have to not benefit. He's going to have to be given an opportunity through injuries and play, you know, and prove that he belongs there.

At this point, just kind of more of the same of what we saw last season and in Summer League. Guys persistently hobbled by his almost total inability to get past anybody off the dribble. Again, weird draft pick. But, yeah, I think he's going to have to fight his way into the rotation. Then he's going to have to be given an avenue into the rotation, and he's going to have to prove that he belongs there. Isaiah Stewart, not much to see there. It's good to see him back at center.

And he's been used less as a floor spacer than I would prefer. I'd like to see some more pick and pop sets. I'd like to see some more five out sets, especially with Jaden Ivy on the floor. And I should mention with Ivy, I'd love to see him, as I forgot to mention this, mentioned this when I was talking about him. I'd like to see him handle the ball a little bit more. Like Cade really gets a lot of handling priority. And Ivey, even when he's on the floor without Cade, it's much more of kind of like a share-the-ball system. I'd like to see Ivy spend more time on the ball and more focus. Begivenor, I'm hoping to see this in the regular season,

more of a focus on getting him opportunities to attack the rim. But also put some emphasis on finding him mismatches, especially when he's on the floor with Isaiah Stewart and hopefully you're fielding, you know, five guys who can shoot and so you can get him some good opportunities in isolation, where either he's just going to bust past players, which he can absolutely do, or, well, if you leave Isaiah Stewart open because he wants your center to be defending the rim, or if it's the center whom Ivy has matched up against, then, you know, you're basically guaranteed an open shot, whether from Stewart or the guy he kicks it off to when he's closed out on. not because Isaiah Stewart, well, hopefully Isaiah Stewart has turned over a new leave in terms of shooting when he's closed out on.

But again, only two preseason games to go on so far. Ron Holland, here is, you know, I know that there's been a lot of excitement around Ron Hollins. This is kind of a preseason player situation. So Ron Hollins is kind of show what I expected, which is that, you know, he's got a motor that everyone is going to love. He's super athletic. You know, he's a strong on-ball defect. who clearly loves to play defense. He's very raw on offense.

His shot still needs quite a bit of work. He has his issues attacking into contact and scoring at the rim. And, you know, his just is his decision-making on both ends could use a little bit of work off-ball defense and when he's on the ball on offense. So this is a guy whom is, you know, who is not really an NBA. I doubt will be in the rotation. I'll put it that way. He's basically at his level of skill we saw in Summer League,

which is not really enough to play in the NBA. He's fun to watch and he works hard, but if he can shoot, then he could potentially play decent rotation minutes, but at the moment he cannot. And, you know, that just makes him a spacing liability, of course. And then on top of that, again, there's some work to be done on the defense, you know, on the decision-making side of things.

And, yeah, even as a driver on offense, he's got his issues. So fun to watch, but very raw. You kind of see what could end up there. Fun in transition, certainly too. And you can see what could be there if the shot comes along. But I like to reiterate that he's not a Sarr-Thompson in that he's not just a shot away from being a good rotation player. If he could shoot, then you could play rotation minutes in a team like this,

but he'd still be probably a minus-valued player given all of his, you know, given all the other things he has to work on. So he's a little further away than Asar, though he's further along as a shooter, if only because Asar came into the league with bad, just straight bad mechanics. So speaking of Asar, we're just still waiting to hear if he's going to be cleared. I'd caution against catastrophizing. Yeah, blood clots or a blood clot is a serious thing. It does not necessarily mean that it's going to end his career.

That just remains to be seen whether this is a one-off. issue, an easily manageable issue, or something that's going to continue to recur. I'm no medical professional. It's just, you know, recurring blood clots. You know, could pretend to me. That's what ended Chris Bosch's career, but those are recurrent blood clots. So we'll see with him. I think we just really haven't heard any news than beyond that he's just participating in the process to be cleared by the Players Association and the NBA large, the NBA front office. Whom have I missed? Paul Reed hasn't seen too many minutes. It was nice to see him make a three, even if his shot for him is completely insane. I don't think, I think we're sort of seeing what the, I think we're seeing

what the rotation is going to look like to start the season and that he'll probably be on the outside of it with both Stewart and Duren in the mix, and especially if you've got Tobias Harris. There were some brief periods when I think he was functionally playing power for with Stewart on the floor, but this is in the second half of both games. during which they, you know, again, the other team had basically stopped trying and the Pistons basically emptied the bench as well. So probably a third string guy. Wendell Moore Jr. has played some decent minutes, but again, against bad opposition, like if he can find some way to contribute to the Pistons, great, but he's buried deep in the rotation.

And it's not just, are you good enough to play? And of course, that's, you know, very much in question. and he's been playing against largely deep bench, but also does it make sense to play you over somebody else? And if it turns out that the answer is yes this season, like especially for like Tim Hardaway Jr., great, not holding my breath, especially after what we saw in Summer League. And by that, I mean just that he was bad against bad opposition.

Fon Takio, exactly what we would expect to see out of him. A guy who's going to shoot threes, attack closeouts, run the floor well in transition and just work hard and grind in general. So continue to think he's the starting small forward, going forward, you know, just for the foreseeable future, and it's basically his job to lose. And that is about it. I've just gone through the entire roster. If we're talking questions right now, the one that has been brought up, as J.B.

Bickerstaff saying that the starting center situation has not been decided upon yet. it could be either of them. And you all know how I feel about you know, Cade needing a solid role man. I think it'll come, I think what it's going to almost certainly come down to is just Daly Duren's defense. I would be surprised to see Isaiah Stewart starting. But yeah, we just, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes with Jalen Duren is his defensive effort up to J.B. Bickerstaff's par. Par. You know, who knows? Starting Isaiah Stewart would give you the opportunity to run five centers and play better defense because Isaiah Stewart at this point is enormously better than Jalen Duren on defense

would make life different significantly different for Cade Cunningham being in the floor with Stewart and running pick and rolls with him versus just more like pick and clog with Stewart versus having an athletic big on the floor and bigger staff has also pointed out at an emphasis on vertical spacing which he had an enormous amount of of course in Cleveland between Mowgli and Allen versus really not quite so much in Detroit. It's basically Jalen Duren or nothing. Well, Asar Thompson when he's on the floor. Hopefully he will be on the floor.

So I think that'll be it for this episode. This is, I know, a little bit disjointed. I hope it was enjoyable to listen to nonetheless. It's just a, you know, a situation where we've only got two games to go on, but this is the big news item on the plate right now is preseason. It was enjoyable to talk about nonetheless. So I'll be back. next time to discuss the rest of preseason.

So I think I'm going to post on Friday again because the final preseason game is on Wednesday evening. So as always, folks, I want to thank you all for listening. I hope you're doing great. And I'll catch you in next week's episode.