Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 223: On the Bright Side...

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

This episode takes a look at the positives (where applicable) of each rotation player so far in the season.

Welcome back, everybody. You are listening to another episode of Drive into the Baskets, weak voice edition. Not actually sick, not sure what's happening in my voice, but anyway, I hope you're all doing great. So recording this after another loss, unfortunately, and this is a rebuilding season with a not-so-great roster, a not-so-complete roster,

with some things that have gone wrong. So I continue to think that this roster might have, like, a 35-win ceiling, could still, if a lot of things go right, to compete for the plan, maybe. Whatever happens, I mean, I think we'll see at least twice as many wins is last year's catastrophe of a season. Like literally nobody alive or dead has had to live through a worse piss than season than that, excuse me, this one, not nearly so bad. And a lot more to enjoy. Though, I'll be honest. And for those of you who, and for those of you who don't care to listen to

my personal travails with watching the Pistons. That makes perfect sense and just fast forward this couple minutes. I've watched for about the last decade at this point, honestly, almost exactly the last decade. I came back in, well, I became really a hardcore fan. Right in that period after Josh Smith was waived, that really may have been the high point of the Pistons in the last decade, and it was great for those of you who were around back then. I mean, that was a Pistons team that had been absolutely terrible and then just everything came together called lightning in a bottle became more than the sum of its parts and it was just a lot of fun there have been some good times as well on top of that like the 2015 2016 season first part of 2017 2018 and so on and it's been fun to watch some of the

young players grow up we have been rebuilding for a long time though and there's been a lot of unpleasant stuff to watch in the interim and i'm maybe slightly reaching the point of burnout like in that I'm having a little bit of difficulty relating positively to watching the Pistons play and that's not the fault of the organization. I'm not pointing at the Pistons and saying, well, you know, look, you made me sad. You know, it's on me. I have to not allow myself to get as upset about the coaching, for example, which has been the number one point of difficulty for me.

And I just have to allow myself to take it as it comes. well, hasn't always been the number one point. Roger Jackson at one point in that 2016-2017 season was the main point, and Andre Drummond and Van Gundy, that was kind of like the terrible trio in that particular season. But I digress. So when it actually happened to me was that first game when Asar was back, and we saw not only Asar on the corner for three straight possessions,

and actually a fourth, you could see him get very visibly upset when he didn't get the ball. But that hideous abomination of a play, this sort of thing that shouldn't never be witnessed in the NBA of Marcus Sasser, who can't actually drive well, attacking, and that's not the bad part of the play, but attacking into the packed paint with not only a saar in the corner, but Ron Holland in the other corner. So it's like attacking into an absolutely packed paint with two non-shooters in either corner. And I was like, please tell me this is not happening again, even worse than what happened last season. And I'm like, oh my goodness, you know, like the realities of J.B. Bickerstaff kind of came rushing in that the guy is,

able to make his teams more than the sum of their parts on defense. But on offense, it's an upgrade from, you know, it's an upgrade from Stan Van Gundy to Casey and then to Bigger Staff, but that's kind of like Van Gundy in his last two seasons was like a two out of ten offensive coach. Pissons were a really bad offensive team under him, and it was not all personnel. And then Casey, who is better than Van Gundy and actually cared about analytics, thanks to his time in Toronto, whatever, he was a little bit better.

And then we have Bickerstaff, who's like a four out of ten. That still makes a lot of mistakes. not utilize this player as well. And like I said, I have to, if I'm going to continue watching the pistons and relating positively to them, I just need to accept that things are how they are right now. None of you want to listen to me moan about the coaching, I would imagine. It just kind of, it is what it is. And it's on me to, sorry, I know that I just said the same thing. Oh my goodness, as last season's coach. It is my responsibility, better put, to just find a way to relate more positively to it. We'll put it that way.

So I figure for this episode it would make me feel good to just focus entirely in the good things we've seen this season. And obviously, I'm not sort of let's look only at the positives type of fan, but I find myself just wanting to look at that side of things. There are some goods and there are some bads, and that's always the case for the vast majority of teams. And yes, we as Pistons fans have been confronted with far more bads than goods over the last decade. But, you know, it's just like I said to one of my nephews whose father is a huge Lions fan.

I said to him, and this was last Thursday, I think it was after the Lions went to 12 and 1. And I said, you know, my feeling on sports is that if you don't stick with your team through the bad times, then you don't quite as much deserve to become a fan of them in the good times. And obviously, that sounds a little bit condescending. and I have nothing against fans who just want to watch a good product and aren't the type to sit through a bunch of bad seasons. But I will say that the longer you stick with your team through struggling times, I would imagine the better it feels when things actually turn around. And I've seen the Lions fans, I know, just be ecstatic,

almost as if what's going on right now is like a dream scenario, and I'm really happy for them. Unfortunately for me, I'm a Pistons and a Red Wing fan, but hey, we had a ton of 16. I mean, the Red Wings, they haven't made the playoffs in eight years, and they still, over the last 30 years, eight years, yeah, this would be the ninth season, if they don't make it this season. And despite that, over the last 30 years, they still have the most Stanley Cups, regular season wins, and playoff wins. So we had a great stretch with the Red Wings. Anybody who was, you know, around for that, you know, from like 1995 onward is, you know,

we were very lucky. And we had to go into work, Pistons. as well. I wasn't quite as much of a fan of them. But so, you know, it's not all bad, but with the pistons, it's been rough for a long time, you know, rough in a way that no other team has endured. But, you know, we hope for the light at the end of the tunnel. And hopefully that's coming sooner rather than later. No, games like tonight's kind of make it a little bit tough to see it. So, transitional year. And let's talk the good things we've seen so far. That's 25 to 30 games in. So we'll start off with Cade Cunningham. And I would say the positives with Cade, probably pretty apparent.

He's just coming into his own as an efficient three-level score. The three-point shot in particular was critical. And it wasn't so great in his first three seasons. Well, first two-and-a-quarter season, seasons rather. This is basically his third season, functionally speaking. He played like 14 injured games in his second season. So now he, you know, he's so far, is. shooting well over 40%, if I remember correctly, on last look on catch and shoots.

He's shooting in the mid-30s on pull-ups, and mid-30s on pull-ups is fine. The efficiency threshold in the half-court, which just keeps going up and up, is about one point per possession. So 34% is a fine mark. That's why Luke Adanjic often has what looks like a pretty poor mark from three. It's because, you know, just to use him as an example, excuse me. he takes a colossal volume of pull-up three, so does Trey Young. And if he can hit the shot, great, and Cade has done a decent job of that this season.

I hate the shot, not from Cade, and it's not a bad shot, and it's just, I think, is the most boring possible way to end a possession. Who's to blame? I don't know, maybe James Harden was really the pioneer in that capacity. Not Steph Curry. So, Curry, contrary to, I think, what is popular belief, is primarily an off-ball player. and arguably, I would say inarguably, actually, the greatest off-ball player of all time. Clay Thompson is up there as well.

Curry just dashes back and forth around screens and gets like the six inches he needs open to get off a shot that literally takes just over half a second to leave his hands. But yeah, the pull-up three, guys just bringing the ball up the court and taking a few dribbles and are going around a screen and shooting a three. It's not really so much with Cade. But anyway, it's kind of a situation in which it's the same thing. is the three-point revolution, which I think is going a little bit too far in the boring direction at this point. It's like you got to do it to keep up.

So it is what it is, though. I think probably like many of you, I'm hoping that defense becomes more of a thing. I know that the NBA front office looked at it last summer. They didn't do anything, or at least not overtly. No, I would say not at all, because the officiating has changed very little, if at all. They could just give a few words to the refs. Like, you know, we're not going to change the rules officially, but please call the games a little bit more loosely.

But that's not happening. Anyway, back to Cade. Three-point shooting is huge, both because the pull-up three-round screens is just a very potent weapon to have, and it means that guys need to guard you that much closely, that much closer, rather, and not only around screens,

but, you know, just when you've got the ball at the perimeter altogether, it's, yeah, guard you closer. It means you have an easier time driving past them. So the off-ball three is just critical because just gives you more options, of course, gives you the ability to provide value off the ball, not only on the ball. And, you know, some players, well, only one of them, Luca really makes it work as a super heliocentric player. Trey Young, I think, is kind of overrated, in that you've got to play entirely around him, but he just doesn't provide enough value, not like Luca.

in terms of this, his defense is so bad. And yeah, you've got to play it around him far more than around Muka. Muka can be on the floor with Kairi, for example. It's kind of a waste to put another handler next to Trey. Again, I've gotten off topic. So just very, very important development for him. I always had faith that he could get there because he shot 40% in college and a really difficult shot diet.

But it's taken a little bit longer than expected. Nonetheless, now a pretty good three-level score, needs a little bit of work at the rim, though the fact that he does, I'm not want to complain about the refs, he does get a pretty raw deal as far as my drawing fouls that I think will change as his clout, as a star grows, and just as he gets better at baiting them, that's unfortunately an art in the NBA these days and has been for some time. Again, kind of blame James Harden for that to a degree. I remember reading an interview with him where he said, where he noted that he'd deliver stretched his arms out for layups because he's like, you know, you can hit me on the arm,

but that's a foul. And he got very, very good at baiting fouls. But he definitely wasn't the first. He was just one of the worst. So that's the positive for Cade. Just also he's been playing a more all-around game. His defense is considerably. His defense, I'd say, is a great deal better than it was last season. Still occasionally, it leaves guys open on the three-point line because he gets caught ball-watching. But that's, that's an issue that's lessen across the course of the season. He's a great deal better than it was last season. We'll put it that way. And I'd say he's playing at roughly his rookie level where he's neither, you know, really a plus nor minus defender, which is acceptable. Maybe he's a bit of a, as an on-ball defender, I'd say he's been somewhat of a plus.

So at least he's not detracting value at that point. My equation for value, basically you take value added, you subtract value taken away, and you subtract opportunity cost, you know, like the cost of having that player on the court, on the Ross. versus a guy who could do better. And for some players, of course, there is no opportunity cost. Like having Cade Cunningham on the floor, there is no opportunity cost. And having, you know, if you have a player or like a really good role player, where it's like, okay, we couldn't reasonably replace this guy with anybody who would do better.

But, you know, value added on either ends, minus value taken away. And taken away can be on defense, of course, if you're a bad defender. or if you're a guy on offense who can't shoot and that means that you can't complete plays from the three point line and you know because that's important you because it results in a very high efficiency shot for the average player and means that you can't take that high efficiency shot so yeah can't participate in those plays can't take that shot and also defenses don't take you seriously so three things that really detract from your value on offense So that's minus value. So Cade is no longer in the minus value realm on defense.

And that's helpful too. Again, you could argue maybe he's providing a little bit of value. And on offense, of course, it's partially because this team has no secondary handler, which is kind of a problem. But, yeah, the offense is hopeless without him on the floor. I'll put it that way. Anyway, yeah, heading in tonight's game, 24 points per game, 45% from the field, upwards of 39% from three.

free throw shooting hasn't been quite as good, and he's only getting there about four times per game, and nine and a half assists per game against 4.7 turnovers. That's not a terrible ratio. It's been better lately. That turn those turnover numbers are really brought up by games early on in which he turned the ball over constantly. He's really locked that down quite a bit better. In any event, speaking of a guy who's no longer a defensive minus, let's talk his partner in the back court, Jaden Ivy. And I would talk about this being a mixed bag for him this season so far, but we're not focusing on that, and it's season-proofed quite a bit over last season either way. So Ivy, his improvement has been particularly noticeable from outside the three-point line where you're shooting 38% on five times per game. And again, that is dragged down

by what so far has been a pretty poor showing for him on pull-ups. He's been quite a bit better than that on catch-and-shoots. And important for obvious reasons, you know, the reasons I just wait out. he can finish plays from the perimeter. He's not a spacing liability, and he can take that very high efficiency shot. And also, you know, you've really got to close out on him now. If you have to close out on Ivy, then you're done. Defense is unlikely to recover because somebody's got to go help.

And that's the first step to unhinging it. Well, it's not done, but your defense is going to end up unhinged. Ivy is one of the best players amongst guards at reaching the rim. And, yeah, not really reaching the free throw line as much as you. you might think. Only four and a half attempts per game, just about the same as Cade, 73% from the free throw line, which needs a little bit of work. And the turnovers are an issue. I don't, I think he could be used better in a way that better befits his skills. But that way, I think it'd be doing better if he were just allowed to attack the interior into space and attack

in isolation. So yeah, I just goes to say that. I think he could be doing even better if he were used more judiciously. But yeah, he has done very well, getting into the rim. He's done a decent job of scoring when he gets there. He's been strong in transition. And in reference to the defense, he was a terrible defender in his first two seasons. As a rookie, he would literally end up spinning around trying to figure out what he should do at times. And this season, his defensive awareness has been much improved. And his on-ball defense, which was occasionally good in the past, but it was also occasionally bad, has improved a lot.

But it's particularly the off-ball defense, which is the majority of defense, in the NBA, just making the right decisions, making the right rotations as reading the play. Do I think he'll ever be a plus defender? No, but the fact that he no longer takes away value on defense is huge, because he took away a whole lot of it in his first two seasons. So it's the three-point shooting in the defense, you know, a little bit comparable to Kate in that respect. He's just improved a great deal in both of those capacities. Also, still a young player, so only in his third season after a completely outrageous second season under a coach who basically tried to bury him and that probably cost him some development it was always my opinion

that ivy might take three seasons to really come online not sure i would figure that completely just absolutely ridiculous second season into that but yeah i'm encouraged by what we've seen he came in pretty raw he might you know at this point yeah he might not kind of reach his his full potential until maybe season four, we'll see. But I've been encouraged what we've seen so far. He's made major strides. He still has his warts, still has his things to work out, but he's made major strides. I wish we could talk a little bit more about Asar Thompson, but he's played five games in very limited minutes. He's shooting 33% from three on extremely low volume. So at least he's willing to dish it, though. At least he's willing to shoot it. I guess it's averaging about three assists per game,

not including tonight. These stats I'm looking at don't include tonight. But, you know, we see flashes of what he will provide once he is fully healthy. And I wonder if it's a matter of time until he gets in the starting lineup. And especially if Tim Hardaway Jr. continues to struggle. And we've also seen that when he's in those rare times, when he's been on the floor with Isaiah Stewart, Isaiah does fade out to the perimeter more. And you need Isaiah in a shooting role in that situation and basically need to have him

starting at center. if Asar is in the starting lineup. Speaking of Isaiah Stewart is really at his best defensively, like one of the best rim protectors in the league, one of the better defensive centers in the league in general. The defense, just part of this is the guy he's replacing when the starting center comes off the floor, but part of it is just that Stewart is a very good defensive center.

Like I've said many times, he has a struggles in some situations, you know, guarding against vertical spacing, for example. But on the whole, he's a strong three-level defender. So not much more to say about that. And his usage has been on offense has been by far a career low. But, you know, if you can manage to get Isaiah Stewart shooting threes, well, it's a matter of coaching. But, you know, an Isaiah Stewart who plays strong defense and is able to space the floor on offense, again, valuable player. And of course, he's a tone setter for the pistons. Nobody works harder. So good to see a guy who was already good on defense get even better. Jalen Duren, I wish I could say, let's see, what can I say positively about

him? He's trying harder on defense than he did last season. That's a low bar, and he's still not trying very hard, but he is trying harder. I'd released a mini episode earlier this week talking about Jalen and what I'd call the Duren problem. So if you want to know how I feel about that, just listen to that one. No need to talk about him further here. Ron Holland had a big night tonight against the Celtics. I love Ron's motor. It's similar to Asar, but I'd say, well, I'd say it's more similar to Isaiah Stewart's just in terms of his mentality, backs down from nobody. He plays very physically, works hard on every play. But yeah, the guy is, the guy's a battler, I'll put it that way, and it's fun to watch. He's very raw. I knew that coming in, and I think that when Assar starts

to take on more minutes, Ron might fall out of the rotation. And again, the fact that he's raw is known. You know, the fact that he's struggled at times, it's predictable, and it's not because he's a bad player. He's just a player who needs a lot more development. But the motor is great. The defense has been pretty good, and you see what could be there. Like, from his finishing and transition, you see what he could potentially do in the

half court. And if Ron Holland, I mean, his shooting needs work, of course, we all knew that, but if the shooting comes along and he can transition some of that touch in, it's just, you know, it's just, transition some of that touch and transition. Yeah, whatever. You get what I mean. Into the half court, you have a potentially starting caliber player. But the motor is just fantastic.

And as Isaiah Stewart shows, like, a really good motor is such a force multiplier. And Holland, well, maybe he's not quite as hard a worker as Isaiah Stewart. That's no knock against anybody if they're not, because literally nobody works hard than Isaiah Stewart. But if he's not there, he's very close. Again, something that was known in the draft. So hasn't always been fun to watch, especially with him spotting up the three-point line a little bit too much. Again, not his fault.

But there I, yeah, on the whole, I mean, I'm encouraged. It's going to take some time. And I don't think that time is this season, which is no strike against him. Tim Hardaway Jr., I mean, we'll get to the veterans here. Yeah, Tim Hardaway Jr. started the season shooting outrageously well from three, like around 50%. And he was a critical component in the games that the Pits. one before his injury. Since his return, he has not been so good, and the defense is kind of a problem. But at the very least, by all accounts, he's providing a very important veteran presence.

So that at least is there. Tobias Harris, having one of the slow starts of his career, that's rough. He's been mentioned even more than Hardaway in terms of his positive impact in the locker room. I really wish he would be utilized more on higher usage because he is a player who really needs to be utilized in the offense and get into a rhythm in order to be good. He spends long stretches, just kind of immobile on the perimeter, and that's always bad news for Tobias. But, you know, he was brought on as a veteran

just to provide some stability, some scoring. As I said, many times, I think the scoring will go back to the mean, but he could be even better if he were utilized better. Strong in the boards, too. Beasley, of course, very little needs to be set here. He's been one of the best shooters in the entire league, making a lot of very difficult threes, actually doing decently within the arc. You can't really ask for more from a bench role player than you've gotten from Beasley so far. Again, another guy who is really loud at his great locker in presence, but yeah, shooting 41% from three on a reasonably difficult shot diet, averaging 16 points per game. I think he was number

two and made threes heading into tonight's game. I haven't independently verified that because I just heard the, you know, I think Brian Scaliburini say it, but I just realized or remembered that I hate it when people dish unverified stats, so I went and looked at it. He might have been number two heading into tonight's game. Peyton Pritchard, ironically, is now number two. Tyler Harrow is tied with him for number two. They're both four ahead of Beasley, whatever the case. He's been fantastic from three and has been, you know, sometimes generally often, enough makes the right pass. I'll put it that way. And just a hard worker. And again, one of those veterans who is, by all accounts, very helpful for the youth. And that brings us to Fontechio.

Um, yeah, I'm sorry, but I have nothing. Uh, he works hard. We all know that. Doesn't really look like himself health-wise. He's just not really moving like he, uh, you know, like he has in the past, certainly like he did last season. But, hey, we'll say this. He's improved from three over the last, uh, you know, 10 games or so.

Uh, he's still not where you hope he'd be. You know, he's, is it about 37%. He's taking some tough shots. And he's had some rough games still, but hey, that's, progress over the early part of the season in the first 12 games he shot 32 percent so not what we'd hoped from him but you know sort of signs of life though i'd really love to know uh what his foot health is like he had surgery over the during the off season for a busted toe and finally we get to marcus sasser well one more after this so sasser has seen kind of a regular usage and it's not

much of it as a handler. He's pretty much just coming in and shooting, though he's doing more work within the arc, and he's been very efficient so far. You know, would he be getting minutes in a better team? I don't think so, because he is sort of a liability defensively, but that's, you know, again, we're not talking about that here. He's coming and given some decent minutes, you know, when called upon. Yeah, he's been highly efficient, and, you know, he's had some pretty decent games. The biggest game, unfortunately, was in, you know, to contest the business, lost by 20 to Memphis. And yeah, pretty much really all of his good games were in losses. You know, all five of his decent to good games. But, you know, nonetheless, if we can come in

and add some shooting and, you know, when he's called upon. And then finally, Wendell Moore, who, like Sasser, has been kind of in and out of the rotation. But he's provided some surprisingly decent minutes for a guy who had really just been a flop in the NBA so far. When he's played, he's been solid on defense. He's shot three's in very low volume, but he's at about 40%, you know, for what that's worth, it equates to like 15 threes or 14 threes across the course of the season. But again, he's a bench player, and when he's called upon, he does his job, and he does it very conscientiously.

Paul Reed, I can't really say much about because it hasn't played much, and when he has, it's been because Duren has gotten pulled for the most part. So, yeah, hasn't really had the opportunity to establish much. And that is the entire list. So, yeah, I mean, it's still a rebuilt season. This roster is still incomplete and still banking a great deal on development. And so I'm not saying those as negatives. It's just the reality.

You know, what we hope for for the rest of the season, the real bellwether is remains the progress of the youth. We've seen progress from K. We've seen progress from Ivey. We've seen some from Stewart, you know, TBD on ASR. Maybe Ron Holland, if he stays in the lineup, you know, will manage to continue to refine himself, refine his game. Again, that typically happens in the offseason. Who knows?

So definitely positives to pay attention to. And, you know, that's an important thing that those are coming along. So that'll be it for this episode. May or may not release an episode next week against the possibility that I do not. Just want to wish all of you a very happy holiday, however you celebrate it. And as always, hope you doing great. Thank you for listening. Catch you in the next episode.

Thank you.