Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 224: Trade Deadline Recap (with Zariq of Bullyball)

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

This episode, with guest Zariq of Bullyball.net, goes very in-depth on the trade deadline -- both for the Pistons and the NBA at large. (Apologies for the low volume!)

Welcome back, everybody, you are listening to another episode of Driving to the Basket. I'm Mike and I hope you're all doing great today. Back from a long hiatus, we'll talk about that next episode. At this time, I'm happy to say I'm joined again by Zarek Xavier from Bulleyball. Zarek, great to have you on the show again. Great to be here. Really, really enjoyed last time I was on. And I was glad to get a text saying to come back on.

So I'm excited to talk some more Pistons basketball. Absolutely, me too, man. So, of course, today we're going to talk about, you know, the big, big news, which is, unfortunately, Moore has been waived. No, I'm just kidding. Trade DeBline, obviously. Well, that's part of it, though. Obly enough, I can't actually remember his first name right now. Each one's coming to mind.

Oh, Wendell. Wendell. There it is. I was just talking about the guy about five minutes ago. I get the memory of a goldfish lately. In any case, yeah, we're going to talk to trade deadline. And obviously, big news today, the Pistons, acquiring Dennis Schroeder. from, you know, whatever of the, you know, whatever team he was on.

I'm getting it's the jazz. Before that, the Warriors, before that, the, you know, the Brooklyn Nets. In exchange for K. Mark Jr., whom they'd acquired from the Sixers as a cap dump alongside two second round picks. And, you know, Wendy Waters ultimately came over as goodness. I'm just getting this all mixed up. Whatever. The Pistons basically got Dennis Schroeder.

they traded away a 2028 second round big. It's unclear whose it was at this point, whether it was the Pistons or one of the other two 2028s they owned. And I got Dennis Schroeder, him returned. So Zarik, how do you feel about this trade? Good. Honestly, I was expecting when the Lindy Waters, KJ Martin and Josh Richardson all arrived. Granted, KJ came first.

I wasn't expecting almost any of them to run. remain a piston after 3 p.m. today, so the fact that Lindy Waters is still here is a bit surprising. But I did feel like it was part of something that was coming. I had an idea that they were looking for another secondary ball handler, and that was kind of the priority coming into this deadline. I think Dennis Schroeder is about as good as you can get. That isn't named Monzo Ball because the Chicago Bulls for some reason refused. to accept reality and rebuild. But that's neither here nor there.

I think Dennis Roe... They get Voochavich, too. Yeah, which when you... There's reports that he was a really popular candidate for someone like Golden State. You have to wonder, like, okay, unless they're just offering you contracts, I have multiple years on it,

like, why aren't you taking it? Because they're morons. Their ownership is killed. For the same reason they didn't trade to Rosen last year. Yeah. It's puzzling. But regardless, I like Dennis Schroeder for Detroit. It's unfortunate that he's been moved as many times this season as he has,

just because I think he's had a pretty good season, especially starting off in Brooklyn. In Golden State, obviously he wasn't able to play exactly the same role he had in Brooklyn, and that's going to happen when you're playing alongside Stephen Curry. And Draymond, too. And, yeah, and Draymond. But in Detroit, I think he'll be closer to that Brooklyn role that he had where he's really just, I think I can't imagine him really starting immediately, if at all. So him kind of leading that bench unit and being their primary initiator, primary score,

is going to be really good. Him and Malik Beasley will surely provide a lot of good moments on offense. then I'm sure the occasional head scratching shot selection, but you'll take what you can get. Yeah, I agree. But I think the identity that Dennis Schroeder brings to this team also is a huge plus. Because the thing about Dennis Schroeder that isn't necessarily an on the court skill, it's just that he seems, I can I swear on here, right? Yeah, I go for it.

He's a bit of a shitster. You know, like he he's a bit of a. instigator. And he talks a lot on the basketball court, which is something that I don't know how much it gets picked up on TV, but this Pistons team loves talking. And it's not just when they're up, i.e., you know, a certain team in the Central Division. But it's a team that likes to talk. It's a team that, you know, as J.B. said is, you know, not afraid to talk a little shit.

I think he said, I can't remember the full quote he gave, but it was something like, you know, not afraid to talk shit, you know, getting someone's face. And that's kind of the identity of this team, which I think Schroeder fits pretty well, especially being a veteran. He can provide leadership in terms of off-the-court aspects as well, like how Malik Beasley has been, Tobias Harris has been, Tim Hardaway Jr. has been. I think it's really just like a perfect building block for this season. It's almost the type of move that kind of makes me wish that Detroit had him at the beginning

of the year because I think even with Jaden Ivy, Dennis Schroeder could have been really helpful for this team. I agree. But regardless, it's a good move. And I think, you know, expiring contract, you can, you know, make whatever decision you have to on that when the offseason comes. But extremely low cost, I think will be highly beneficial. Overall, good move for Detroit.

Oh, yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, and I mentioned it, I didn't know which of the 2028 picks. It would be the Pistons. I said three. The Pistons actually have four of them, counting their own. Oh, wow. Yeah, the Pistons came out of this deadline with 10 extra second round picks that they don't own. They don't own their own 2025 or 2026.

But, yeah, I have a significant trove of seconds to do things with, hopefully, down the line. So I agree. I thought it was just an absolutely desperate need for another handler on this team. It was really K to nobody. Even when Ivy was on the team, I thought it was pretty gutsy of Trajan Langdon to go into the season with just the two of them, especially with Ivy being more of an off guard. So I was down to see like Davian Mitchell.

It was nobody else. I mean, I'm like, just get us somebody who can help. We had like an initial take that. I completely screwed up because I, well, whatever, it's not here nor there, but Zark had been talking about Sasser. So we'll talk about that. Oh, yes. Yeah, Sasser, Sasser, I think, is just not a handler in any respect, unfortunately.

Yeah. Yeah. That is, my bad. I don't mean to cut you off, but that is, you know, now that you mentioned it, like, you know, that is something that I did want to mention was, I think Marcus Sasser, at his best, is not a primary initiator on offense. he is not a prototypical point guard. And that's kind of the position and role that he's kind of had to play throughout the course of

this season, especially with Ivy going down. And I just, I feel like it's put him at a disadvantage. And, you know, some people might say like, well, it's like, you know, because of his size, he can't play anything else. But, you know, if you watched his games in Houston, he wasn't the primary initiator for that offense either. You know, it was him and it was Jamal, I believe Jamal Schned. is his name.

Those two shared duties, but it was mostly Jamal. And he's carried over that role to Toronto, and Sasser's kind of had to take it when he's really a combo guard at heart. You know, he's at his best when he's just looking to score first. And that's something that, you know, he's even been open about, is, you know, the ability to score is something that he prioritizes rather than being that initiator and facilitator. But, you know, done too well of it this season,

shooting about 33% from 3. But yeah, I think Sasser, I mean, I've spoken a lot about it. I mean, this is, I've even listened to the show for a little while. This is not an opinion that is new to you. It's just like, I think Sasser, there's, if he isn't a handler, he's an undersized shooting specialist, and there's kind of very limited value to those guys in the NBA, because he's inherently defensive liability in certain situations.

But the only way in which I think he can't be a handor is if he's hitting, that, you know, bevy a very, very difficult mid-range pull-ups. He can't get past anybody on the perimeter. He can't get to the rim. Can't break down defenses. So, yeah, basically with Kate off the floor, like even with Ivy, it was like Kay was off the floor and Ivy really wasn't doing such a great job of running the offense on his own. And I think this is just not his game unless, you know, if he's alongside another handler,

then it's less of an issue. But when he's on his own, yeah. I agree with you. It would have been cool to have, you know, the likes of Dennis Schroeder on the team early on. But yeah, it was just like, get us another handler. You know, no matter who it is, I'm not looking for a huge move, but this team, I think, for the sake of development, and for the sake of Cade, not needing to get the crap beat out of him every night, needed another guy who can handle the ball. And I agree with you

that Schroeder is probably the best they could have gotten reasonably for what was a low cost. Extremely low cost. I mean, the fact that the Pistons walked away this deadline without trading a single one of the players on their roster. Granted, they did wave Wendell Moore for Lindy Waters, which I thought Wendell Moore has been more than serviceable for, you know, what was initially tasked of him this season. But I'm sad to see him go. Not because I think he's good, but because I think he gave him some decent minutes.

Seems like a good dude worked hard. Exactly. Yeah. And, yeah, just a very nice guy. It seemed like a very nice guy. But, like, the fact that Detroit didn't trade anybody at this deadline. and was still able to acquire someone that really fit a massive hole on this team is a huge win. And I understand the need a lot of fans have for a second star on this team.

I personally actually thought this wouldn't be a bad time to kind of go and make that swing, especially seeing what all-star or fringe all-star players were going for. It wasn't like the five first-round picks that McHale Bridges was traded for, you know, just a few months ago. That was something. Yeah. Which I think that is the last of any kind of deal like that that we will probably see, especially under the new CBA.

It'll be a while. Yeah, with how well it's gone for a lot of teams too. Yeah, exactly. Phoenix is the poster child now. Yeah, I mean, they got Kevin to run. rant, I think now two years ago and are already, you know, hitting the emergency exit button. So that team is a shambling monstrosity from day one. Matt is like Mark Cuban on speed.

Yeah, it's new owner syndrome 100%. It's unfortunate because I thought the core Phoenix had did have potential to upgrade. Absolutely. I didn't think trading Macau was going to be the answer. And I think the Aitin for Nurkich thing was even more mind-boggling. But getting myself off topic. I think the rate that stars were going at, though, during this trade deadline was pretty fast. And I mean, you can feel how you feel about a Levine.

But, you know, the fact that, like, he was traded for, you know, No real first round pick value in return. No really promising young players in return. Players, like, you don't know how the value is going to be in the summer. Like, this might be the cheapest you can get some of these guys. So to not make that swing, I totally understand why fans would be a little frustrated. With that being said, I can also see the value in retaining. what you have and waiting for Ivy to get healthy and seeing how this core plays in a

playoff situation without any major additions. Even if like whatever large swing they were going to make wasn't going to cost a, you know, let's say in a SAR or an Ivy or something like that. Like let's say it wouldn't even have costed any of that. Seeing how these guys play in the roles that they currently have in important games, I think will be beneficial for evaluation. my only concern is that Detroit, let's say, finishes the season and enters the postseason as like a six seed, you know, ideally. And let's say they get, let's say Milwaukee, you know, gets up to that three seed.

My only concern for Detroit is that some of the guys that you're protecting right now and you're really concentrated on evaluating, their value dips when other teams see them on a big scale in a important situation and they don't step up to the plate. Or maybe they do. Or maybe they do. And, you know, it's a huge gamble. And maybe, you know, they step up to the plate to the point where you don't have to make that big swing this summer.

But in the situation that some of these players don't really step up to the plate, it makes me wonder if their value would have been higher at this deadline. but that's neither here nor there. I think ultimately what Detroit ended up doing with getting Dennis Schroeder was a massive win for evaluating the team as it is and also elevating the ceiling. Granted not a huge amount, but I think the ceiling of this team is definitely higher now that they have a secondary ball handler. Yeah, I agree.

I'm my goodness, it was just such an eyesore like, like I said, I would have been satisfied with Sasser being upgraded to Davy and Mitchell. Because it's like you have a guy at least in Mitchell who can take the ball and like attack the rim, sort of, which Sasser can't do. I mean, it was just so ugly without. Speaking of Sasser, is probably out of the rotation at this point with Schroeder on the roster. And if Schroeder stays in the roster next season, Sasser is out of the rotation then as well. He wasn't playing when Avi was healthy. So something additionally to mention about Schroeder is that the Pistons do opt to keep him next season.

keep Beasley as well, that they can do so while operating as an above the cap team, given the cap holds, and therefore, I mean, they wouldn't really have any means to do anything else in free agency, but that means they would have access to the full non-taxpayer, mid-level exception. So there's that at least. In any case, yeah, I agree. It'll be, I think Shrude will be a significant boost. And, you know, should Ivy come back? I'm not sure.

I think that's unlikely, personally. you probably have a little bit more insight into that. Oh, who knows? Maybe you're operating with the same information we are. Yeah. I mean, the, I think the newest update we've gotten was that he's now in a walking boot and has started, which I think was a PR statement they put out just generally, but members of the media also got it where Ivy's been in a walking boot now

and is starting to do some, like, you know, strength training exercises, but basketball activities, he's still. a bit away and yeah and they'll be evaluating him again in another four weeks or so yeah if you had to guess like just based solely on your intuition and and your uh your experience with basketball if you'd be back this season what would you say i actually do i do think jade and ivy plays i do think jade and ivy plays another game this season i think the pistons are anticipating him playing another game this season or at least hopeful of it because they didn't apply for that um exception they have repeatedly they they weren't eligible for the DPE as a below the cap team.

No. Okay. As far as I know. Okay. Well, then that makes more sense. But regardless, like J.B.'s been pretty adamant about when Ivy comes back this season rather than, you know, if. And obviously, it's not declarative. You know, like, no one's saying for sure that Ivy's coming back or not. But I do think they're definitely hopeful of it. If I were to guess, I would assume it's, like, right around the end of the regular season, if not, like, right at playoff time. So, I, do think.

I would say if he does come back before the playoffs, then he has a high likelihood of, you know, playing those games. But if he's just getting cleared to play or like, you know, ready to play right when it gets to the playoffs, I could see a bit of temptation, you know, in, or hesitation, excuse me, in bringing him back right when a playoff series is starting because that's such a really, like, throwing someone in on the deep end type of thing. So we'll see, but I do think he gets cleared before the end of the season. Interesting. Yeah, I'd be a little bit surprised to see him back, but, you know, if so, great. I mean, yeah, it's weird talking about it and saying, wow, the pistons have a backup point guard.

Because they really haven't had one all season, even with Ivy. So anyway, yeah, let's talk Schroeder himself. So I'll just get my impressions of Schroeder. He's definitely a solid playmaker. He's quick. He's got the decent enough for his. step, you know, he'll penetrate into the interior, a decent score at the rim, and able at operating in offense. And again, before this, I mean, I don't really put Ivy in this category, because I don't really consider him a lead guard. So, yeah, a capable lead guard, not ideal to start on a team that wants to do anything, but more than able as a backup. His shooting is up and down. It was very good in Brooklyn and the season before, not so good in Golden States. And at other points, elsewhere in his career, but he's been a very serviceable backup for a long time. Not the brightest. It says some things that are not great, but I don't even want to get into that discussion.

We all say stupid things. Some things are considerably stupid than others, but nonetheless, that's not here nor there. So, yeah, a guy who will certainly, I think, very ably be able to step in and run the floor while Kate is out. And maybe we'll see him actually play some minutes with Kate and late game situation. So it's a little bit less predictable. It's not, oh, well, you're going to give the ball to Cade and ask him to score, which is the default.

So, yeah, I feel good about it. I think it'll be a big deal for the Pistons and winning more games as I think they're, they are trying to win, you know, to make the playoffs. And they make it to the playoffs. It would be help there as well. How do you feel that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Defensively, not great.

But, oh, well. Yeah. defensively, I don't, I mean, I don't think there was many moves. The Pistons could have made this deadline that would have cost about the same as Schroeder that would have really improved the perimeter defense that this team has. No, going more all in. Sorry to interrupt, but he's, yeah, he's 6'1 and about 170 pounds. Yeah, so maybe against the Jalen Brunson,

I'll have a better shot in a playoff series. But if he gets matched up against a Tyree, Haliburton I'm going to start fearing a little bit. But yeah, no, I think the thing that I'm most relieved by with the addition of Dennis Roder is, you know, Cade's workload. Because I feel like although he is 23 and, you know, very young and pretty healthy, I mean, I know he has that ankle, soreness or something where he turned his ankle. I think on, who did he turn his ankle on the other night?

I think Jared Allen or Evan Mobley, one of the two. So he's questionable for tomorrow, but considerably healthy this season. I think they're taking it for granted, or we're taking it for granted a bit with the workload that he was being given. It really reminded me of that 2018-19 Pistons team where Blake was initiating everything and kind of the focal point of everything. And the minutes he was out, it was like, okay, like we need Blake back in as soon as possible. and that eventually led to, you know, when they got to the deadline and it was Svema High Luke and Thon Maker coming back, you know, it wasn't really... Oh yeah, they dropped. They sold.

They sold Roger Bullock at the deadline. Yeah. Yeah. So when that was the deadline, it led to even higher workload for Blake. And, you know, obviously, we all know how that story ended. And I was concerned that this season was heading in a similar path. Now, obviously, I didn't expect Blake to, you know, blow out a tire or anything like how how Blake did. But I was concerned that there would be some, I guess, collateral damage or, you know, burnout on the offensive end, especially.

And just in terms of health, nothing like major, but just, you know, when you have to do that much, it takes a toll. Mentally and physically, it takes a toll. So I just didn't think that was sustainable. So with the addition of Schroeder and, you know, potentially Ivy towards the end of the season, he gets a lot of help in that department. Now, I'm with you on Ivy being a lead guard. I don't see him as one. I see him at his best as that secondary ball handler. More of an offball type of guard primarily, though.

Dennis Schroeder kind of takes that responsibility from Kate a little bit. And I think he and Kate also can share the court together. the same time. It helps that Kate Cunningham is, they list him as 6'5, but as someone who's been around him quite a lot, I don't believe that for one second. He's at least 6'7, if not 6'8.

But regardless, he's able to be in a back court with Gade Cunningham and be the smallest player on the court, you know, and it's not a weakness for the team because of the amount of size that they have cross-off positions, it's

pretty flexible. So I think Schroeder's, honestly a really good fit on this team. I'm excited for Cade to have less to do. Oh yeah. His workload has been extreme, like absolutely extreme. So yeah, this also, it means less work for him in two ways. First is that he doesn't need to be on the court as much. I mean, because right now the offense can't live without him. It's literally you take him off the court and there's nobody who can initiate offense. I mean, Sasser is a pale imitation of a lead guard. sadly.

And also that, yeah, you can't have situations when they share the floor. And that's going to be a load off of K'd as well. And like I said before, it's going to be, things will be a little bit less predictable. So, yeah, I think it's a big deal. Yeah, how would you feel about, like, if things go well, potentially keeping Schroeder in the offseason, you know, at a proper price? That was something I was thinking about today because I was thinking about, you know, how much that would cost. because the Pistons potentially could have a bit of an expensive offseason in terms of just bringing back guys.

Obviously, Ivy and Dern, if extended, their contracts wouldn't hit until next season, but Cades does this summer. So that's a pretty large contract that's going to start going into the cap room. It could get bigger, too. Exactly. We have, yeah, just to explain a little bit of CBA stuff, sorry to interrupt. up but if kate makes all-n-b-a his value in his contract goes up by about 45 million i think i have that number right uh about now it'd be an additional 5% of the cap next season i can't do that math

in my head 155 million dollar cap 5% of that um yeah well whatever in any case yeah that would that would cut more out so all respect to kate i'm kind of hoping he doesn't make all-n-b-b-a yeah i think i think I think All-Star is already a good start for him. Yeah, that's enough for me. Yeah. But if he does, you know, that's even more of an expensive contract for Detroit to be adding into their cap room. So this longstanding romantic relationship they have had with cap room flexibility, unfortunately

will come to an end this summer. Yeah. Because both 10 years, Weaver and Langdon now have really prioritized having that type of flexibility and cap room available to do things, but they won't be having that moving forward with Cade, and then, you know, you have Tobias, who's making $25 million a year, and then Tim Hardaway isn't expiring, how much is going to cost to him, bring him back, if that's something you're interested in doing. I'd be surprised.

Yeah, but I do believe at least one of him or Beasley will come back this season. Yeah, exactly. And Beasley is definitely due for a pay raise of some kind. Not going to project where exactly in the ballpark that will be. But it's definitely going to be more than, I think, what, the $6 million he's making right now. Yeah. It's going to be, I'd say, at least double that number. I think the non-taxpayer, Emily, I think, would be enough to bring him back.

But the business needs to be an above-the-cap team with capital or otherwise to make that happen. Yeah, so there's something to keep an eye on there. But just in general, it could be an expensive summer for Detroit. So I'm looking at, you know, Dennis Schroeder as a player that, you know, could add to that or someone who they could honestly just enjoy a rental love. But ideally, I think the fit on this team will see it, you know, when it's actually on the court, but on paper at least, ideal, right? Like, the fact that it doesn't matter whether Ivy's healthy or not for this move to make

sense, I think speaks volumes. Yeah. And he's not an old player by any stretch of the imagination. He's definitely a veteran, but, you know, 31, he's still got a couple years left to where, you know, he could be pretty valuable to this team. So I definitely could see them bringing him back on maybe like a one to two year type a deal in the summer looking at, you know, how much that's going to actually cost, I don't know, because, again, he was traded three times in the last two months or so.

Yeah, well, twice in the past like 36 hours. Yes, so, yeah, that alone. So it's like, you know, what's the market for Dennis Schroeder going to be? I don't know. And famously, not the best history with free agency. It gets even uglier. For players like him, it gets even uglier with the new CBA. Yeah, exactly.

Which is, again, its own thing because, like, you know, they talk about like the middle class of players kind of being, you know, screwed over in the CBA. It's definitely accurate, you know, walking representation of it being Dennis Schroeder. But regardless, I think he's someone that Detroit definitely could look to prioritize, bringing back this summer. I think between him, Hardaway, and Beasley, he would be near the top of that list, again, just in terms of on-paper fit.

Yeah. It's like, it's a pretty spare summer as well in terms of backup caliber point guards. Be him and DeAngelo Russell, I think, and that's about it. So you keep him, it does spare you from the need to go out and get one through some other means. And, yeah, it's been a big weakness with the team. Again, I think it was a big weakness with the team even when Ivy was there. that they did not really have a qualified bench lead guard. So, yeah, and Pistons also snagged a couple of second round picks.

So, yeah, it, I think it was a solid deadline. I just in reference to what you were saying about trading for stars, yeah, there were some cheap trades made for some kind of higher quality. Players were some good players. I was not interested in all on Brandon Ingram. And, you know, the team that traded for him was going to buy the opportunity to pay a very injury-prone player, a huge contract that he doesn't really deserve. I think that's one of the reasons the return was so modest. Brandon Ingram, who misses like 25% of any given season, and it might even get worse as he accumulates more miles.

Levine, the contract was a consideration. Do you trust his health? Do you want to pay $100 million for him over the next two seasons? Yeah, I felt. okay with them not striking out for that. I'd rather see what they have right now. There's no need to rush the process with, I think, non-ideal players. If you could pick, to spitball here, if you could pick any player in the league that, you know, the Pistons could go, start hunting for, who's like that best fit in your head? You know what I'm going to say here. I'm sure it's the same one you're going

to say. Go ahead. That would be Devin Booker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's somebody who's an elite score. He's a great team guy. He does not need to be on the ball. He prefers to play more of an off ball role. And, you know, he's a veteran. He's a proven winner. I mean, he hasn't won a championship,

but he's just, he's a really good player who's performed at a very high level, both in the regular season and the postseason. And, of course, the fact that he's from Michigan and would plainly be happy to play a mission again. Michigan again would be helpful. Now, the actual logistics of acquiring. him a different story. But that would be my dream scenario.

Outside of like, you know, the unattainable, it's like Wembe or other guys who are just not getting traded. Yeah, I think Devin Booker may be acquireable with the complete disaster that has become, you know, the Phoenix Suns. Yeah, they're definitely setting up for that to be a possibility, you know, if things continue. But, yeah, on Booker, I'm like, that's one of the rare guys of that caliber who probably be really excited to play in Detroit for sure. So yeah, I'm with you on that.

So that's also like another thing is like, you know, with the chaos of this deadline, there will certainly be fallout. So Detroit kind of monitoring that in terms of finally making that, you know, big step. That's something to monitor that they can actually use going forward in the summer. And that could also help with, you know, decisions they have to make on certain players as well.

Yeah. Let's talk real briefly about the implications for the playoff race in the East, the East, which was weak already and managed to get even weaker somehow. It's basically all the talent except for Brandon Ingram. I mean, Butler went west. You know, Zach Levine, who does contribute went West. Chris Middleton, who hasn't played much this season, but is better than Kyle Kuzma, went west.

No, no, no, no, he's stayed nice. He's still east, but he might as well be west. He might as well be west. Yeah. He's now irrelevant. Yeah. I mean, I'll head this one off in terms of like, yeah, I feel like the Pistons got a little bit stronger. The magic didn't do anything.

The weak, excuse me, the Hawks, you know, got weaker. I would say the Hawks who are already in a bad place as a franchise. They got weaker. The Cavaliers got stronger, but who cares? They were already very strong. And, yeah, so I feel like the heat, you know, but were gone, their window is closed, they didn't really get a ton back, and the Bulls got worse.

You know, I feel like it was just all around, you know, the Pistons made out better than the six through ten teams, the other six through ten teams, all of whom got worse or did not improve. Yeah, the only team that I, I do actually think has improved, at least a little bit, is Miami. Really? Because yes, because they've been playing without Jimmy Butler, you know, for a while now. And even when Jimmy Butler was on the floor, he wasn't, you know what I mean?

Like, clearly he was checked out, you know, the season. And I actually have liked the games that they have played without Jimmy Butler for the most part. Now, obviously there's the nights where you lose to the Chicago Bulls by double digits. And that's a bit embarrassing. But I think Andrew Wiggins is actually a good fit on that. team as ridiculous as that sounds to say out loud he he definitely i think is an actual good improvement for that team um they didn't really give up much else and i i i think he's he's honestly a good fit and i also like davion mitchell for them um someone you had mentioned earlier i i really like

davion mitchell for the miami he so i think the biggest threat the pistons have for that six seed right now would be miami interesting and kellelware also has had a really important impressive rookie season. I'm just, I'm not, I'm not ready to write them off quite yet, but the rest of the teams, absolutely. Chicago, I mean, they could finish temp. I don't think it really matters, you know, at this point. Unless in some sick scenario, Detroit ends up playing a 9-10 situation where they have to play

Chicago and Vucevic just lights them up again. Hey man, darn can't do it. Yeah. Defend stretch fives. Yeah. So unless something like that happens, I wouldn't really consider Chicago a threat for Detroit's playoff hopes. Atlanta got considerably worse and now they're starting to be noise of Tray Young,

not really being happy there anymore. And what they're doing, that's also another discussion because rebuilding without your own pick this year. Yeah, not a decision. Orlando, I was really surprised didn't do anything. I know that health has been a factor for them all season, but there still is legitimate holes in that team in terms of scoring and not going out and even getting like a role player that can score.

I know you have KCP who you signed this off season, not looking to move off of that contract. Just a bit surprising. I was surprised that Orlando didn't really take a little more urgency with their situation. And the biggest thing for me, in terms of the Pistons' playoff hopes, is that the 76ers seem to have waived the white flag a bit on this season. Oh, they want to be bad.

Yeah. Guess who owns their pick? I'll give you one guess. I believe it's a guy who went out and traded for another pick for no considerable reason at the deadline, despite his team being title favorites. Yeah, 40 and 9 and owns half a bazillion picks, including the Sixers' big. unless it falls in the top six. Sam Presti, you are one interesting guy.

Oh, yeah. And then even today, they managed to find a dude, you know, wait, you know, in the second round, who was in a second round, you know, excuse me, a two-way deal. It was good enough, characteristically, that now he's on an incredibly affordable deal, and it's a pretty good player. And they signed, you know, he signed him to a multi-year deal today. So middle finger to you, Sam Presti, yeah. Turns out Troy Weaver wasn't really the talent there at all. There was no San Presti tree.

just San Presby. Exactly. But no, it's interesting, though, that Philadelphia kind of just really wave on the white flag. I thought they would maybe pull a Golden State and get a bit desperate. But they didn't. There was really no talk of them really even getting desperate either, which kind of makes me curious on what the future of Joelle Embed is there. I'm, you know, if Luca got moved, and I'm sure we'll get into this in a minute.

Yeah. If Luca got moved for the idea of being overweight and injured often and, you know, in poor conditioning, what is the actuality of it, you know, getting moved? Like, you know what I mean? Like, what's the discussion there? Because you want to talk about everything that he was labeled for. There's a guy wearing number 21 who has all of those same issues except has the chronic injuries that are. just alluded to for Luca, you know, in terms of things that, like, seriously could damage long-term health. Because, like, Luca's had some nagging injuries, but none of it is, like,

I think he won't play past, like, 32, you know? Like, oh, yeah, Embed, such a talented player, but, yeah, that body of his men. Yeah, so the sixers in their, in their high first round picks and not being able to stay healthy. Tough, man. Tough luck. At the same time, I, I, I, I, I, I, look at their situation, I say, okay, you have Tyrese Maxie. I mean, to a lesser extent, you have Jared McCain, who I thought had an incredible rookie season up until getting injured, you know, again, poor luck. Yeah. I wonder if you look at that and go, okay, let's take us, like, let's take a stab at retooling,

you know, like, where they're, they're kind of seeming to be an asset accumulation mode, at least at the deadline. The biggest, I think, issue in their, in their, in the, you know, they're, in the, you know, their process would be, no pun intended, would be Oh dear, oh man. Would be moving that Paul George contract, but I'm sure there is a bad team that would eat it if needed. And even if not, they could be that bad team that just kind of has to stick with it

for a while. But that's neither here nor there, but Philadelphia does not seem to be prioritizing winning, is my point. And as surprising as that is, that's an opportunity for Detroit. And Detroit, I think, is in a great scenario where I think they want to avoid the play-in altogether and just find their way to that six-seed, maybe five-seat range. I don't think the five-seed will happen, but, you know, who knows? There's only a two-game difference, really, between them in Milwaukee.

So who knows? But I think, realistically, I do think the Pistons finish outside of the play-in and make the playoffs on their own. And I did say at their hottest point this season, you know, like that beginning of January, like the January run that they were on, if they got the right matchup, I think this Detroit team could steal at least a couple games, if not a series from a team that maybe is underestimating them or a team that just doesn't match up as well with Detroit. Because the thing about Detroit is like as much as they. they can be a one-man show. From 1 to 15, this is a roster that J.B. has really instilled a culture of, you know, kind of gritting

and really resilient players that simply refuse to give up up until, like, literally the last second of the game. And the most frustrating of losses this season, that's still something that you could say, like, was the case. Not everyone. Not always everyone. But for the most part, yeah. For the most part.

And I think I look at a team like New York, who they beat a couple times in MSG this year. And I go, I don't know if, I don't know if, like, obviously New York's favored and should be favored. But I think there's a world where the Pistons could at least make it hard for them, you know. Well, they're vulnerable to NICS if they have one injury. It's a very shallow team. But you want to avoid Boston, you want to avoid Cleveland. Those two teams are steaming. To me, I think more, yeah.

I would honestly say even more, just for the Pistons sake, I would say even more Milwaukee. Avoid Milwaukee at all costs. Not because Milwaukee is like the same team that they used to be. They just eat the Pistons alive every time they play them. And especially in a playoff scenario that would, I think, just give 2019 PTSD to Pistons fans out there. Oh, man. Yeah. Do you want to try playing Jalen Duren up against Yannis and a stretch five?

Yeah. I like, they can have Kyle Kuzma and that's, that's not going to make them that much better. But at the same time, it's just, it feels inevitable that, you know, they get the pistons in a postseason matchup and turn into the Avengers again. It would have to be four. It would have to be four or five in that case. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's very unlikely that the Knicks at this point are going to give up a six win lead and West Brunson is out for the long term.

Yeah. Yeah. One last thing is just to me, I think this season already, I think we can just say it here is a win, you know? Yes, I agree. And you're kind of just playing free basketball. You're playing with house money at this point. Exactly.

Exactly. They are in that, they are in that fun position where there are real, like no real expectations. And anything that they do in the postseason will be chopped up to, hey, we had a pretty good season. You know, it's like that, it's that kind of fun, no expectations season that, you know, every team looks back on and goes, oh, those were the good old days, like a year or two later. But they're in that position now. And I think if they are able to win just one singular playoff game, not a series, just a game. That would be nice.

That would be a huge, huge win for the progression of this team because that's something that they haven't done now in almost 20 years. Yeah. As insane as that is to say. Yeah. anybody who was born on the day the Pistons last won a playoff game in 2018. I think it was May. It was May of 2018 is now legally able to, excuse me, 2008, is now legally able to operate a motor vehicle, the state of Michigan, everywhere else in the United States too.

So, yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, I agree that the season has been, you know, they've done extremely well versus expectations. and I had something I was going to say that I completely forgot. But yeah, I agree going in, making the playoffs just when he, I mean, it would be a big deal. And unlike 2016, I know, you know, back in 2016, it's like, okay, you go in, you have a competitive sweep against the, against the cavaliers who go on to win the championship, and you've got, you probably could have won at least one game if Reggie Jackson then had been allowed to hero ball to his heart's content.

But the difference now is that it's not, you know, you have. have the superstar lead handler in Kate Cunningham. Back then it was like, okay, Jackson is like, you know, like a, like, not maybe the 10th best point guard in the league. And Drummond, sure, like, he made all NBA in like an incredibly weak center class before everybody realized that he was empty stats. But even back then, it's like, okay, the guy shoots like 10% from the free throw line. Obviously, I'm exaggerating.

But like, he's not going to weed your offense, stuff like that. So it's a, I'd say it's a very, very different situation. So, yeah, I think, yeah, we'll see. I mean, there's the possibility that K'd, goodness forbid, miss his time and the bottom falls out. What a bit less of a dire situation now that Shruder is on the team, but that would still hurt really, really badly to be without him. All right, so let's take like, you know, 15 minutes or so here and just blow through what else be saw off in the trade deadline else were in the league. of course, excuse me, of course, the most notable trade that really shocked everybody was was Toronto acquiring James Wiseman and cash considerations. No, I'm just kidding.

Where were you? It was a where were you when that happened type of move. Yeah, I was pretty sure I was cleaning my kitchen. So of course it was maybe the most shocking trade in NBA history. Certainly of our lifetime, I would say. I'm a little bit older than you are, but of my lifetime as well, which is Luca out of completely literally nowhere. Like a generational player, a top five player in the league is suddenly playing for the Lakers. And nobody, like literally, somebody, I mean, if I could go back and put down $100 in Vegas that El Luka will be traded for Anthony Davis, I would have made a lot of money. So I'm just going to My theory on this is all ownership

Not wanting to pay Luca the Supermax And maybe a little bit of a concern about his weight and conditioning But also just Nico Harrison Going about it in the most incompetent way he possibly could have Yeah this is something that's really hard to rationalize Um Speaking of like a where were you moment I genuinely I think that's a memory I'm probably going to carry with me

For the rest of my life because I was like getting ready to go to bed and I check my like I see like a notification from Twitter but for bullyball occasionally like I'll post like video edits or you know things that could get copyrighted essentially so I have a separate Twitter page just to put things up for copyright reasons and I'm like okay

this must be like a suggested tweet that is like NBA Centel or something, right? Because there's no way I am looking at the correct thing. So I click on it. And I see, I see the,

I read the Shams handle before I even click on his, on his profile, like a million times. Like, Shams, Shara, Shams, that's him. That's actually him. So I click on him. I'm like, I look at,

it's his profile. I go, okay, he's hacked. Right? Like, he's got to be hacked. There's no way this is real. And I'm like frantically looking up and down my timeline for any sort of reporter to confirm it and like it's just silent and I'm like what's going on like there's no way this is real and I have I have the TV on and I

before I think it was right after before Shams says the yes this is 100% real thing yeah they put the graphic up on screen and then I open Instagram and it's a graphic on ESPN where it's 80 in a Mavs jersey and Luca and a Laker I'm like, what's, there's, there's no way. And as it started to settle in, that this actually happened and people started coming in and saying, yes, this really happened. Yes, this is confirmed. I was like, one, wow. It's like one, I'm not getting to sleep anytime soon.

Yes. I went to bed at like 5 a.m. that night. Just watching, like, YouTube and keeping track of like, like, oh, is something else going to happen if I close my eyes? for like 10 seconds. But also like, man, LeBron at this point could not have dreamt of a better co-star. I know him and AD played well together, but like it was getting to a point this season where it was like, okay, they've gotten as far as they can go. And now 40-year-old LeBron, who is still performing at an extremely high level, which

is unfathomable. Get someone who plays the one, maybe one other person. in the league who kind of matches his play style in terms of, you know, the offensive role that he has and takes away that burden while also still being a top three player in the NBA. You know, I was like, he couldn't have dreamt of this. Like, there's no way that, like, because now you talk about LeBron retiring, I'm looking at this, like, okay, sure, yeah, he could ride off into the sunset now and hand the reins off to Luca. But to me

His brains are going up Bronnie, man. Come on. He's averaging like two, he's averaging like two points a game. I mean, this is like, this is the next one. Yeah, it's the la air.

Yeah, are we going to let, are we really going to get let Luca get in the way of the natural progression here? Like, come on. Yeah. But regardless, he could pass the reins down to the next generation. Yeah.

And right into the sunset. But also, there's an element of this where I'm like, I'm looking at it. I'm like, Luca extends LeBron's career. Because LeBron has been doing, you talk about workload, he has been doing so much for Los Angeles. Yep. And especially after DeLo got dealt, he's doing so much in terms of creating for himself, creating for others.

Like, he has to kind of play the same role he's played his entire career rather than be a little more lax in terms of an offball player and kind of not needing the ball in his hands at all times. like he gets that pressure will lead off of him and I think he can play two, three more years around this level. I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't think it's out of the question just because I see Luca as like kind of as, you talk about like in a play where you have your understudy who does exactly the same thing as you. I see Luca as that.

But regardless, the main talking point here is. isn't what the Lakers are going to do or what they're going to look like. It is simply how dysfunctional, how objectively bad, how even possibly corrupt this Maverick's front office maybe. Interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't delved too deeply into that. Like I said, I think it was a combination of just ownership, the new ownership saying, well, we don't want to pay that much money. I think that it's going to be an imperative going forward that they stand to the luxury tax line.

I don't think it was a coincidence that this trade got them there. But yeah, Nico Harrison, I mean, not even testing the field. But the rationale that, oh, we don't want to hear about it and have Luca demand to trade and, you know, in hamstring our ability to make a good move. I don't know. I, we'll find out more. Yeah, I just, to me, I'm looking at the Mavericks front office. And I said possible corruption.

That's a joke. But, like, it's one of the only things. that you can rationalize as like why this happened you know like I I get the not wanting to pay him thing but like talk about return on investment you know what I mean like yeah bad return like that's that's that's someone who Luca Donchitz generates so much interest globally for your brand your brand of basketball I don't care what you have to pay him like you're getting your money back you know this is this is not something where it's like you're you're giving God, I don't know, like 2018, Ben Simmons, a contract.

You know what I mean? Like, Luca is a proven superstar in this week. Oh, yeah, he is. He's only 25 also. Yeah, and sure. Does he occasionally seem to have issues with conditioning and saying on the court? Yes. I don't care, though.

Like, you could ask any general manager. in the NBA, hey, would you rather have Blank or Luca? Their problem, 90% of them are taking Luca. Oh, yeah, I agree. He's a generational player. I mean, he's an incredible player. Yeah, so to me, like, even the idea of trading Luca makes little to no sense on the basketball front or even on the business front.

But to me, the thing that puzzles me the absolute most, and this was the thing that blew my mind when I read it that, what was it, Saturday evening. The fact that the Mavericks approached L.A. about this deal. Because I was just thinking, I was like, okay, maybe Luca asked out, like, maybe A.D. also asked out, and that's why there was no talk of this. Like, there was no, you know, like, the Mavericks might be interested in this. The Lakers might, like, none of that. I was like, maybe this was literally just a thing.

where they each requested to go to each other's teams. And then you find out that there was no request and that Dallas approached L.A. And L.A. alone. Yeah, it was a crazy story. On this deal. And you go, okay, what are we doing here? Because, okay, if you're going to trade Luka,

crazier things have happened. Like, if I had gotten the notification that Luca had gotten traded to like the OKC Thunder for like Jalen Williams um Lou Dort God knows however many picks and like I don't know

throw in another player maybe not Chet or shit you know what I mean like yeah okay I had it made more sense yeah yeah I don't think I would have had this oh my God shams is hacked type of thing I would have been

okay well I guess the Mavericks just don't think they have the things to win anymore you know like they're they're just restarting but that's not the case they go out and they get a 32 or 31. He's 30. I think Anthony Davis is 32. 32-year-old.

Yeah, Kyrie is 33. Yeah, Kyrie is 34, I think. Wow. Yeah, I don't know. So you have a core of Anthony Davis, Clay Thompson, and Kyrie Irving as your lifeblood now for a championship. While you're in the same division as Victor Wenbanyama, who is only going to get better each year.

year and you say that you're well positioned for the future. Yeah. That's the most puzzling thing to me. You didn't make a Luca trade for the sake of restarting your franchise or, you know, accumulating assets. You traded him for one first round pick. Yeah, it didn't. It created.

So like the Mavericks on paper, they still have a decent team. And if everybody overperforms, maybe they can go far on the playoffs. but you're at a point now at which you've got a 32 and over core and you don't own your picks between 2027 and 2030 so it's just weird to me I can tell you where I was on that night I was we got actually a pretty good Pistons Discord server it's if you want to check it out Discord.G slash Pistons and somebody posted the tweet I was chatting on there and somebody to have posted the tweet and it was just an ever-increasing flood of people coming to the computer to just say, what the fuck is happening? What is happening? I went, and this actually felt really bad about it.

I went to the Maverick subreddit to see how they were feeling. And I was like, I was like, this must be the sports equivalent of finding out that your spouse just decided to leave out of nowhere, you know, where it's like, you, it's like, you know, this person who was like so important to you, and this is like you're, you know, you anticipate it spending the rest of your life at this person and suddenly they're just gone. And maybe you got traded like a really bad spouse in return. It suddenly been replaced by somebody you just don't like. So, yeah.

It was completely not really bizarre. And I'd say, unless, like, unless Luke is really, you know, going to break down, it's going to be, it's a win for L.A. I'm not as high in a fit with LeBron as you are. But, yeah, I mean, they've got their, they've got their future when he retires. Let's just spent a couple minutes more. I know we're getting close to an hour here. Let's spend a couple minutes more, just a couple minutes on each of the more significant trades that also happened.

One of them, the Pistons, of course, we're in on this trade. There's a five-team deal that ultimately brought Jimmy Butler over to the Warriors. I was, I think this was a good move for the Warriors. All they gave up was a top-time protected pick, though I believe it's this year, so that's going to convey. and I'm not a huge fan of the fit with Draymond's, but I feel like this is as good as the Warriors could have done. And Wiggins, I feel, hasn't really been his championship self

since maybe the season after the championship. And they did give up, you know, superstar guard, Wendy Waters, the third to the Pistons. You know, Wendy Waters is averaging five points on 37, 33, you know, 37% from the field, 33% for three. So I like the straight for them. I don't think they're going to win another championship. I respect the desire to extend Steph's window as much as possible, you know, to extend the window as much as possible with Steph, you know, it would bit the last few years of his prime.

I like it. It didn't cost too much. So I think it made sense. I don't, I don't think you win a championship, but it gives them the ability to make more noise. Yeah. I don't, I don't think this is a championship winning move. I think if they had maybe made some complimentary pieces, smaller pieces, added some smaller pieces, I should say. It would have at least maybe swayed me into believing they had at least a shot in winning more than maybe one playoff series. I don't know if they're winning one, to be clearly honest with you, but I do also respect, you know, not giving up on the stuff window.

Because in my eyes, like, if you're keeping stuff around, it was getting sad this season. It was a sad watch. And it was really clear that the roster desperately, desperately needed another, like, guy. Andrew Wiggins was not that fit. And that's also why I think he'll be a better fit in Miami as well, because he's not going to need to be anything besides Eric Spulsor's dream wing of just being like a defensive-minded, if he can get him to lock in on that end,

defensive-minded wing who slash is a case, regardless, this is about Golden State. I just, I don't, I don't love the fit. I don't think this really does anything long-term. I understand that they had to give him the extension, really as a part of trading for him. But if you're not going to go out and get, to me, because I think the center position is,

something that really needs upgrading in Golden State. And not that I think Nicola Vucevich is some world beater or something, but not at least getting an upgrade of any kind at that position really confuses me because Jimmy can only do so much. And everybody in this Warriors Corps now is old enough to run for president. So I just, I can't really see it being a long-term solution. or even really a short-term one. But I think there's a possibility that they're interesting in a playoff series

because they have two of the more dominant playoff performers of the last decade or so on their team. So, you know, anything can happen, but I'm not huge on the Warriors' chances. Yeah, I think they could win a playoff series maybe. I don't see them going further than that. Maybe, maybe, maybe if everything goes right and a lot goes wrong for other teams to make it to the conference finals. but yeah, I agree. Just the depth isn't there.

So we, yeah, and I know you already, you already wonder how you feel about Miami's side of it. I just think Miami's window is closed at this point without Butler. Yeah, no, I think they're not going to be remotely near the ceiling of the team that they used to be, but I think they can be competitive at least. Yeah. Well, for the piston's sake, I hope you're wrong. Yeah, me too.

So the Zach Levine trade, which, my goodness, I've already forgotten. And so, yeah, D.R. and Fox went to San Antonio, Levine to Sacramento alongside a couple of first round picks, one from the Spurs, one from the Timberwolves, some second round picks. And then Chicago took on some unimportant players and their own first round pickback. So they would have capted anyway, but it, you know, it's no longer. tying up their picks going forward. So I'm laughing at the Kings because they have $144 million next season with the Valenciunus trade tied up in Valen, Clavine, DeRosen, Monk, and Sabanus, all of them bad defenders. Man, that Kings team, I feel like they just watched the 2021, Chicago Bulls and went, yeah, that's what we want to do here. Except the defenders, except Lonzo, except Caruso, yeah.

Yeah, no Lonzo, no Caruso. I like the offense of that team, though. Let's, let's keep it going. Interesting, really interesting decision making. And I will say, like, if anybody out there has, like, 10 to 15 minutes of spare time, I really recommend watching, going on YouTube and looking up Monty McNair's press conference after trading for Levine because it was his first time facing the Sacramento media in, I think, over like a month or two since Mike Brown had. He never faced the media after Brown had gotten.

fired. So it was a great viewing experience because that that media room held no or pulled no punches whatsoever. Yeah. Puzzling decision making coming out of Sacramento. But I think even more so head scratching, granted not in the way that they're destroying, you know, their long-term future like how Sacramento has. Chicago, let me just read through very quickly. The players on their roster as of February 6th at 820 p.m. What, like their five guards? Yeah, Nicole Vucevich, Josh Giddy, Kobe White, Iotosumo, Jalen Smith, Patrick Williams, Kevin Hurtr, Manus Bezellas, Lonzo Ball, Taylor, Tailon Horton Tucker, Julian Phillips,

Trey Jones, Zach Collins, Dailon Terry, Jvon Carter, E.J. Liddell, and that's it, pretty much in terms of players that are going to see the court, possibly. Yeah. What is the direction of that team? They haven't had a direction in forever. Yeah. Yeah. And they just double.

It seemed like, okay, they're heading towards accepting fate and, you know, rebuilding because they, no, Demar, no Caruso, and then trading Levine. Like, okay, maybe they're accepting it. And then they just did it. But the one team that we haven't hit on that trade is Deer and Fox to San Antonio. And, man, getting that done without Stefan Castle, without really any of the Spurs' Young Corps leaving, that's a dream come true for San Antonio. And obviously, it helps that Deere and was very vocal about San Antonio being like, you know, the place he wanted to go. But I don't think you could have dreamt it any better for San Antonio. and now you are already starting to get stars who want to go play with Victor Wimbunyama.

Yep. That's going to be a team that congratulations, Dallas, you are going to be behind for like the next decade. Yeah. Yeah. Wembe's a freak. I don't think Stefan Castle, and I never got the idea from him that he was going to be a, you know, the lead handler for a good team. But as a secondary handler, as long as the shot comes along and with, you know, with his defense, I think. I think they've got their back court of the future as long as the shots there for Castle.

Aaron Fox is a good player, you know, by all means, and he's still young, too. So I agree. That's another team that came out well. It didn't really cost them a ton either. So, yeah, moving on, what would be the next most consequential move? I mean, you had, you had Coosma from Middleton, Middleton, who's kind of really been a decline and has missed a lot of time. And then Coosma, in my opinion, one of the most obnoxious.

this overrated, you know, the don't be that team guy. I think he's awesome if you're a treadmill team or a bad team that just wants a guy to take shots for you and otherwise not good. Truly shocked Sacramento didn't make that swing. For Cozma? Yeah, I mean, he would have been, he would have been, yeah. He would have fit in just fine there. Yeah, I'll just go back to Sacramento for a moment.

Monta McNair has no regard for defense. I mean, it does not like it offends me, but like they made the playoffs in 2023. on the back of just having an outrageously good offense alongside a bad defense. The guy just doesn't care. Yeah. Man, I love Keon Ellis in Sacramento. He's going to have to do a lot, a lot, a lot of caring to, to have even remotely a chance that if they make,

because I don't think they're, are they in the play-in right now? They're number nine, yeah. Okay. But Golden State's number 11 with the same number of wins. And the spurs with three wins behind, they just upgraded. The Trailblazers were randomly. doing fairly well. I don't think that's going to last.

Yeah. And the suns also only have 25 wins. The sons are 200 right now. You know, honestly, the person I feel the worst for in this whole ordeal is DeMar de Rosen. I just, that's just bad luck, man. Like, you know, like the team that you get traded from in 2018, when's the championship the next year, you're stuck in, like, mediocre hell with San Antonio for a few years.

Then you leave to Chicago. you have an amazing half of a season and then the other half of the season you're just falling into the playoffs and it's just downhill from there and play in just mediocrity and the fan base completely rejecting it.

And then you go to Sacramento thinking, okay, well at least I get to play with Deere and Fox and this whole beam team and all of the momentum they have and it falls. Yeah. And then it just falls apart upon a riot. your head coach is fired by like month two or three and then deer and fox is gone by the deadline

terrible luck to be demar de rosen and then i also feel for levin i really wanted to see like he's one of those guys that i understand the criticisms for him but i really wanted to see him in a situation where he'd be playing like important basketball games because i do think there is a valuable offensive player um in there and it just hasn't been able to show and Chicago and now it certainly won't be able to show in Sacramento. So it's just a disappointing situation all around. Yeah, sucks. Well, yeah.

I mean, well, Levine will be free if he wants to be after one season, if he wants to turn down a $50 million player option. All right. Three more, I think we could go over. Number one is Ingram. I think I touched on my thoughts about it already. I'm just not very impressed by Brandon Ingram, and I wouldn't want to have to give him this contract that he's asking for.

In Toronto, somebody said it. I don't remember where it was, but they said Toronto tried to make a go of it with just a bunch of guards and no wings, and now they're making a go of it with a bunch of wings and no guards. How do you feel about this trade? I just don't see that it's necessarily leading them anywhere. I respect the philosophy of this trade, 100%. I don't quite understand the fit of this trade. I respect also the fact that they have.

have committed to Scotty Barnes as the franchise cornerstone, and they continue to kind of go out and get talent for him. The fit of all the talent brought in still is very questionable. I guess we'll see. And I don't even think this Toronto team has much of a shot at a real play-in run, but because of how bad the East is, and, you know, Atlanta and Chicago kind of falling apart, they have a better chance now. So if this Toronto team has a second half of the season where, you know, Scotty, Ingram, R.J. Barrett, Emmanuel Quickly, and, you know, Yacca Purdle put together a fantastic second half of the season, you could say this is a win, right? And you could say maybe this is a good start to the direction of them being a competitive team that, you know, could

be rivaling a Detroit, you know, in terms of what they are able to do. If it doesn't, what do you do with this team? You know, like R.J. Barrett is on a long-term deal, I believe. Emmanuel Quickly, also long-term deal. And then you're going to be signing Brandon Ingram, certainly, to a long-term deal. And Scotty Barnes, his extension will go into effect this summer. I feel like you're kind of stuck, no? Like it's just

mediocrity. Yeah. Maybe it gets the second round. And yeah. And like I really hope for their sake that they are able to make a playoff, not playoff, play in run and turn around their season because right now, anything less I think is a massive, like massive disappointment for them. And I think it makes the future of this team even more confusing.

So I don't love the fit in terms of. Toronto for Brandon Ingram. I really wanted to see him actually go to Atlanta just because I do like Tray Young. And I mean, it's great, again, for Detroit. That's a controversial take amongst business fans. Oh, I'm aware. Yeah, I'm aware. I just, I've always been a fan of his.

And I wanted, and again, great for the Pistons, but I did want to see how Brandon Ingram would look, you know, with the Trey Young. but we won't be seeing that. So, yeah, no, I don't love the fit for Toronto. For New Orleans, I guess, like, you know, not the best return in the world, but at least you got something for Brandon Ingram. That's a team also that I really don't know the future of. Like, it seems like Zion is a road that will have to be crossed

in terms of trading because I just can't see him being a long-term fit for that team anymore. Like what a disaster it has turned into them. Yeah. They even had to lose Dejante Murray to an Achilles injury. Yeah. Just on top of everything else. Nightmare season for New Orleans.

On a nightmare, you know, just a nightmare iteration. I mean, it's over for them. Yeah. And they've got, out of all of this, they have Trey Murphy. And that's no disrespect to Trey Murphy, but that's not the news you want to hear. If you're not a lot of Spelikins fan. No, this is not that you do not want Trey Murphy. to be the best player you got out of all these, you know,

out of what was supposed to be a championship contending iteration. Yeah, so I think the best thing for them, honestly, would be to move off of Zion this summer, just because I don't, I mean, you know, obviously Zion has his injury history, but I just, a part of me really feels like Zion is going to get traded somewhere and suddenly be Mr. Iron Man, you know? Like, I just, oh, wow.

That's a take. It's a hot take, but I just feel like that's their luck at this point, like with New Orleans. Like Dyson Daniels leaves and, you know, he had injury history. He had an injury history and, you know, he was essentially just like a piece of the Desjante trade. And he goes to Atlanta and is like in all defensive, a member upon arrival. Yeah. So just that type of luck, like I wouldn't be surprised if Zion finally turns it up whenever he's dealt. Or he could just continue to remain the controversial injury-ridden guy that he is.

But I just, I think the best thing for both parties is to head towards a trade this summer and for New Orleans to just finally kind of hit the reset button because it's clearly not working. Oh, it's over for them. Yeah. I'd say, Zion, I think that, I mean, just what makes him so special physically was always going to shorten his career, his combination of agility and explosiveness and speed and, like, a ton of bulk and strength was always going to be incredibly difficult on his lower body. And I think that he just had to optimize his health as much as possible to try to, and even then, I think he was going to start

breaking down by 30, but he didn't optimize his health. And I don't think the injuries are going to stop coming. But we've got, so just a few more here. I don't think it's necessarily a ton to be said about DeAndre Hunter. I think this. is an upgrade, overall overt significant upgrade for the Cavaliers who I think are gearing up to try to win a championship, obviously,

but I don't think it's a ton to say beyond it, that makes them better. It's the rich get richer. DeAndre Hunter is a player that the Pistons were, you know, talk about trade interests. That was someone who I know Troy Weaver had, you know, a bit of interest in

and obviously didn't really get to realize it He's gotten a lot better this season, though. Yeah. But again, last year, it was kind of a risky move, and that's why he was even in talks for the Pistons is because, you know, maybe that came with some type of pick assets, whether it be second or first round. You know, last year, that was definitely a thing.

And now this year he's kind of realized, like, he's become the realized DeAndre Hunter. Like, obviously he's not some type of All-Star or anything like that, but, you know, talk about, impact player absolutely and for Atlanta to lose Jalen Johnson and then also trade DeAndre Hunter for traded bogey as well yeah and bogey

well bogey number two I don't know if he has another nickname yeah bogdan bagdanovitch not not the famous number 44 boy on yeah um no but like getting a return of caris lavert uh bones highland and uh man for the loss of two big wings that really were impactful for like granted limited success but the success that your team has had this season yeah got it's got to hurt it's got a sting other one and nine too the last 10 yeah so they and the one being you know yeah who would whoever those guys were yeah um but it's just a tough a tough situation for at least

and that's certainly a team now that I expect to probably fall out of the playing race. If they stay in, it's not going to be because they really won their way in. It's just going to be because the bottom of the east is really bad. So for Atlanta, really tough. I don't quite understand the decision making because I don't think you've really gained much of value because they don't have their pick this year. Like there is no Cooper flag walking through that.

door. So it's really confusing to me that they would just kind of wave the white flag on the season while having nothing to show for it. Yeah, the return also, I mean, they got two swaps from Cleveland in 26 and 28, and it's like, it doesn't strike me as likely that the Cavaliers will be worse than the talks will be. Congratulations. You've got a late first round pick. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, no, I mean, it's like they're not going to want to swap. So it's like 26 and 28 that's So, yeah, it's basically Karas Levert, who is staying with the team for now for some reason. I would have tried to redirect him if however them because he's had a decent season. Yeah.

And three seconds. But, yeah, I agree. They're in bad position. That Murray trade was dumb from day one. Yeah. I'm also glad for the Pistons that they will not be facing Cleveland this season. I think they play them. Did they play them one more time or have they played them the four times now?

I'm not sure. I'd have to check the schedule. If they've played them for the last time, they have to thank their lucky stars because that team just got even better. And without a D'Andre Hunter, it was, it was not a good sight. So, you know, last night was as close as it has gotten this season, but still, like, that's a tough matchup for Detroit. So that's a team that you really hope you don't get in a playoff series.

Oh, no. Nobody wants to see. No matter who you are. Yeah. Nobody wants to see the Celtics. The Pistons play the Cavaliers one more time on March the 28th. at home. Okay.

Yeah. So two more trades, and of course, any further you'd like to discuss, but the two that I have on the list here are the Lakers. And I know that we interacted a little bit on Twitter about this. This could be, this was Mark Williams in exchange for a first-round pick, a swap, which, again, is almost exceedingly likely if Lucas on a team to be meaningless. and Dalton Connect, who would have been a decent role player. In exchange for Mark Williams, the Lakers really needed a center, of course, because they just didn't have one. And I really like it for Charlotte because now they don't have to make a decision on extending a very injury-prone player. And if you can stay healthy in the playoffs, you know, I like it for the Lakers as well.

I think, yeah, but that's a big if. Yeah. Yeah. I understand it for Charlotte. I like it for Los Angeles, if that makes any sense. Oh, somebody opposite. Yeah, like I understand it for Charlotte.

I personally, I was very high on Mark Williams in that 2022 NBA draft. I thought his measurements were almost like, it didn't make any sense. Yeah. Yeah. The athleticism is there.

It just was a matter of, like, putting it together. And I think also this season, it definitely seemed to be like a motor issue a little bit sometimes, which obviously is not something you want to hear. But when you consider the environment, not to excuse it, but, you know, it just to me it's something I don't take necessarily as seriously, especially when you're going to go into playing with, you know, Luca Donchich and LeBron James. Like regardless of, you know, how those two may fit, those are two bad SOBs that are going to. really hold you accountable, especially on the court. Those are two guys that if you are doing your job, you will look like a million bucks next to you,

especially Luca. Because to me, I think Derek lively, as talented as he is, I don't think he is near the prospect that Mark Williams is. And Luca Donchich made Derek lively look like, he had the Chris Paul effect on Derek Clively. And for those maybe who don't know, that was the Chris Paul effect that got DeAndre Hunter,

DeAndre Jordan, first team all NBA nods and, you know, basically a career up until this point that was without him, not likely. It's the type of lob man that I think, Luca has dreamt of, and if Mark Williams can just stay healthy, I think this is a massive win for Los Angeles, because the center position was obviously something that needed addressing even when Anthony Davis was here. So now that he's not, like, that's even more of a need, and you addressed it with a 23-year-old who's younger than the 23-year-old that you sent out in return. So I have to give credit to Rob Polinka. I don't think he has had.

the best tenure as, you know, the head of Lakers' decision-making. But I think this deadline, granted, you get offered Luca Donchich. I don't really give you a whole lot of credit for saying yes. You still got Luca Donchich, and you got Mark Williams coming back after you kind of had no future up until, like, you know, this deadline. Like, congratulations, you have a future now, right? And regardless of however this season goes, like, I think you can walk away from this deadline, like, happy with where you are and where you'll likely be headed. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I think Lakers fans have a great deal to be happy about it. I think with Williams just come down to his health. You know, the guy has been very, very unhealthy so far. And, yeah. Yeah, it's been a tough run for him. He has been second in health problems only to the other Williams, as being Robert Williams, who, you know,

I was like, oh, I went right over my head initially. Yeah, that's a sad story. I mean, the guy is, well, it's a sad story because the guy is just a, is a really solid player when he's healthy, but he never is. And with the number of injuries he's had, it's likely to continue. Yeah, I was certain he was going to get moved as well. Yeah, I don't think anybody wanted him. It's just like, at the very least, you have to have some,

just some, you know, whatever expiring salaries to send out. and, you know, pay a very, very modest price because odds are the guy's not going to play for you in the postseason. That's fair enough. Yeah. I think he'll make some team very happy when eventually he hits free agency one day and his value is nowhere near his current contract. Yeah.

For the few games that he does end up playing. It's true for those few games, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was going to bring up as the last one. I know this is a bit of a loaded subject for, you know, for Pistons fans. that the Quentin Grimes trade. Because Grimes have been playing well in Dallas.

And I feel like this was another one of those things where he was up for an extension. Ownership had given an imperative to not pass the luxury tax line. So they traded him for a guy who's got three more years. It's seven figures a year. And the sixers ended up needing to attach another pick because Martin is injured. This is going to be injured for longer than they had done. apparently thought at first. But yeah, I'll be interested to see, you know, see what happens with Grimes.

It's been a bizarre saga. I still don't know why he was traded by the Pistons. I'm over it. Of course, it's long done. Yeah. Well, for Grimes, unfortunate for him, I did think he was playing really well for Dallas this year. I think you saw a lot of the things that you wanted to see in his Detroit tenure this year in Dallas. for sure and it's it's been really good um especially in the minutes where um he played with luka

uh i i just another head scratching decision and then yeah i get ultimately a cost-cutting move but at the same time like okay like the guy you bring in and return like okay you're you're paying him regardless you know was you're going to be yeah but were you going to be paying quentin grimes much more than than Caleb Martin's contract. Good question. You know, like, I don't know. I don't think so. He's had a good season, not like a season where he's going to go out to hit

restricted free agency and make, I don't know, like $15 to $20 million a year. Like, it's, I don't think he had that kind of season. So to me, it's just puzzling. And then the fact that they sent out second round picks also in that trade, very puzzling. because this is a team that isn't really very asset heavy, which is something that is insane to say about a team that just traded 25-year-old Luca Donchich. But this is a team that's not very asset heavy.

So it's another thing that just makes you go, like, what are they doing? You know, like, again, the idea of trading Quentin Grimes, I don't think is absurd, but it's the decision-making behind it. like the same thing as the lucid trade. Like, it's just puzzling process. And I thought maybe Dallas had a couple tricks left up their sleeve. Like maybe they would make a push at like a Kevin Durant or something and really just go all in with the guys really ready to hit the other side of their prime.

But at least, you know, you could say they really went all in on that. Like they didn't end up doing that. And I just, I'm really puzzled by Dallas. And what I will say on Quentin Grimes in terms of the Detroit aspect, I think if Quentin Grimes wanted, if Quentin Grimes played and showed the enthusiasm that he's shown in Dallas, I think he would probably still be a Detroit Piston. Well, I mean, he was playing injured the entire time. last season. He had that one-year game against the Knicks. True. And it was a really horrible situation also that he got traded to. So again, like, tough, tough timing. Yeah. Probably the worst situation anyone could have been traded to,

so can't really fault him for it. But that's a discussion off the record. But yeah, no, I think Grimes is a valuable NBA player regardless. And I think he'll find his team if it Philadelphia, he'll be beloved there. If it's not, I think he'll have a role on pretty much any team. Yeah. Yeah. I just wish we knew more about, you know, why he was so abruptly traded by the pistons.

Like I said, I'm past it. I'm long past it. I mean, it's already happened. I don't really think about it anymore. I continue to wonder why it happens, but, you know, maybe we'll figure that out, figure that out, excuse me, somewhere down the line. Yeah, anything else, any other trades you want to bring up before we conclude, man, this turned into a marathon episode.

It's been fun. I've had a great time. Yeah, likewise. Nothing off of the top of my head, I'm sure, like as soon as we hit stop, I'm going to come up with something. But there was nothing else that I could think of off the top of my head that really jumped out to me. I will say, though, I did think KJ. Martin had value for Detroit.

right. I understand they had to deal him to get Dennis Schroeder. If there was a way for them to get that done without putting K.J. Martin in the deal, I would have liked to see him have any sort of role on this team. I think the defensive element of things is really needed. Not that he would be a world changer upon arrival or anything close to it, but it would have helped to have another guy who can, you know, guard wings and especially bigger wings because of, you know, the vertical ability that KJ. Martin has. But no, honestly, like, in terms of trades, like, it was by far the most absurd trade deadline I have ever experienced. Yeah. So the fact that we got through as much as we could and still have things left on the table is a testament of itself. Oh, yeah. It was, it was interesting. Only 2015, like in recent memory, comes close. at 2015 where I wasn't quite as in a basketball back then as I as I am now or anywhere near as close as in a basketball back then as I am now but I know there are still stories about it

just how outrageous it was and players just not knowing which team they were on yeah was that wasn't the year no Harrison Barnes was a few years after that right so Harrison Barnes won the championship of the Warriors in 2015 okay so that was the year when I think it was three teams, swapped point guards. I think it was Michael Carter Jr., excuse me, Michael Carter Williams, went to the Bucks, and Brandon Knight went to, from the Bucks to the Sons, and Isaiah Thomas went from the Sons. I don't know. I mean, it was like this kind of point guard musical chairs.

I don't, like I said, I wasn't tracking things anywhere near as closely, but I know it's considered a very wacky trade deadline, but just Luca alone getting traded. I mean, so many players, so many significant players traded hands this season. It's good to know that, like, the second apron is that accounting for this? If so, great. Another benefit. Yeah.

It's something that I was underestimating for sure in terms of making at least trades a lot more exciting. Honestly, just from a fan perspective, like seeing the names that were traded, get traded, and at the rate that they were getting traded was unbelievable. So for the NBA fan, you know, the second apron might be really annoying if you are a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks or the, I guess, maybe not the Golden State Warriors for this instance. But, you know, it's just, it has its cons, but, you know, it did show some positive. So I'll give C.J. McCollum his credit here. Yeah.

I totally agree. All right. Well, I think that'll be it for this episode. Any closing words before we finish? No, thank you again for having me on. I really enjoy coming on here and talking hoops. So it was a good time. Yeah, likewise, man.

Really appreciate you coming on and looking forward to next time. All right, folks. So this was Zarek from bullyball.net. Check him out. Drops your Twitter handle here. Yeah, it is at Zarek Xavier Z-A-R-I-Q-E-A-V-I-E-R. And that's the same on any social media for me. So if you ever want to check out my photography specifically, it's obviously on our website,

bullyball.net, but it's also on my Instagram. I do writing on bullyball.net, and obviously I come and frequent a lot of Pistons podcast just talking about the things I see in here and just, my time covering this team so yeah all right awesome yeah so check them out again thank you zarek for coming on uh and folks thank you for listening hope you're all doing great we'll catch you in the next episode