Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 228: A Worthy Season Ends -- Postseason Takeaways

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

This episode discusses postseason takeaways and the end of an unexpectedly rich season for the Pistons.

Welcome back, everybody. You are listening to another episode of Drive into the Baskets. I'm Mike, joined again by Price. And we both hope you're holding up okay after, I think the game ended about, and the season ended about, I don't know, 15 minutes ago. So we'll just launch right into it. I've got to say, this is kind of the most prevailing thing for me after the series, that this is probably the best I felt after watching a Detroit team lose the season.

series ever. Honestly, I feel great at relatively speaking. Like, of course, this is disappointing outcome for sure. But I think relative to the expectations, this is one of the most successful seasons. The Detroit fans of any sport can look back on in many years. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I mean, nobody expected that the Pistons would be, like, I thought they might. might make the plan. I mean, they came in, they made the playoffs outright. They put up a really good

fight against the team that is just a lot more in the now talent. I mean, the Pistons are an upside team. The Knicks are a team that has given away, they've given away all of their assets to build a contender right now. And I used to be a huge Rebblings fan. And after, you know, up until about 2016, before bad management alienated me. And I moved on to the even more poorly managed team that was the Van Gundy Pistons. But I used to, you know, I used to. to be crushed when they lost in the playoffs. And of course, 2009 was the worst. But 2007 was pretty bad too.

And in 2016, I felt pretty good after that series. But it's like, man, you know, if Reggie and Drummond's had not been so egotistically playing basketball, they could have won one. And 2019, I'm sure you and I were both just happy to see it end, because that was inevitably going to be a swatter. Though, I will say, the heat actually beat out the pistons for worst four-game point. differential in NBA history. So thank you, Miami. Thank you, Jimmy Butler. But after this one, yeah, the Pistons, they played a really close series. They won two games. The crowd was great. It's a young team. And it was really fun. It was a fun season. So I know I just talked for a little while. I won't do that again.

No, you're good. You're good. There's a lot to say, yeah. I mean, there's a lot to, we can pick apart about the game, the series, the season. I think my takeaways are that we are in a very good spot going forward in terms of where the roster is headed, what types of players we have on the roster, who we could potentially look to acquire going forward. We've freed up the first round picks, finally, which is huge. So that's also a huge credit because we had protected picks through until 2027. So that means for those who don't know, there's the Steppian rule, which basically prevents a team from trading first and back-to-back years. So. Yeah. Well, sorry, the CBA guy, I'll just jump in and qualify. Stepan requires you to have first-round picks in, like, you cannot be without a guaranteed first-round pick.

though I believe actually in this situation, Stepion only locked up 2028. It was that the other team just owned the pick until it reached the protected range. Correct. Yeah, it's number 17 now, yeah. Number 17 now. So the Isaiah Stewart trade

has been, will be completed at that point and we will be free to trade picks going forward. Now, I'm not saying that we need to by any stretch, but that's huge in terms of just flexibility in terms of shaping the roster that we now have access to. We have verified that Cade Cunningham is a superstar worth building around, that he's a top 10, top 15 player sort of going forward, at least in my estimation,

and probably many people's estimation. And he's only getting better. And I think that now it's about developing the players that we have on the roster around him, with him for him, but also maybe looking elsewhere across the league to seeing if there's anyone who can come in and help to amplify Kay Cunningham's strengths as a basketball player. So that's, to me, tremendous. Regardless of what the outcome of the season was, that is the biggest takeaway for me. I know that he was zero from eight from three.

Yeah, tough game. And had a lot of tough moments in this series and in this game, with turnovers and that sort of thing. But reminder, who's the second best player on this team? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, just what's sticking in mind for me right now are two things, really. Yeah. And I'll let me get back to takeaways.

But number one, just come back to his developmental roster that, you know, that really, we can talk about my number one hypothetical for this series a little later on. maybe we'll end with that, but you probably know what it is. But number one was just like, it was just a fun season, like outside of like the first month or so. It was, it was just a fun season. It was a fun series. But also like, yeah, this developmental roster went up against a much more developed roster

of winning out talent and almost, you know, and almost won. And so, but yeah, takeaways, you know, and let's go on down the line after this, but I agree. This isn't, and I told you so, this is just kind of a glad to be right. You know, I've felt since Kate came into the league that he had all-MBA potential, you know, certainly the potential

to be a top 15 player in this league. And I agree in what was basically his third season. He just, I mean, he delivered. He'll be all-MBA. I mean, you can make the argument, would he be all-MBA if so many guys hadn't been eligible? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not.

But, yeah, that was big. As for the second best player on the team, I don't know, it was Beasley this year. And in the series, it was Schroeder. So, but I agree. Yeah, which is a huge sign of how far we have to go for sure, but also of how much room for improvement within the current roster we could see develop and have guys like Ivy, Holland, Assar, take that, take over that spot, potentially. But also, there's plenty of people to investigate in the league. to pair with Kate.

So there's a lot of hope. Oh, yeah, for sure. For improvement. Because the Knicks, I mean, again, credit to them, John Brunson was fantastic. Yes. Despite the foul baiting and that sort of thing. That quieted down in the last couple games.

Yeah, I feel like he sort of like settled in and stopped playing games. And he was amazing. It was, he's a fantastic, basketball player. Today, yeah, incredible shooter. Oh my gosh. His balance on some of the shots that he made, just freakish. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, well, let's talk takeaways, like specifically from the playoffs. Sure. So, well, where do we begin? So let's go further on the Cade. Yeah, he did have a rough game tonight. And, you know, sometimes that happens. And his, his. parameter shot did really desert him in this series. Fortunately, until tonight, his three-point

attempt rate was very low, something like 20%, but attempt rate in terms of the percentage of his shots from three, for anybody who doesn't know that term, not his three-point shooting percentage, which was, I think he'll end this series at around 20% also. But, you know, he, like, up into, up to the first, I mean, you could really argue between offense and defense that up for the first five games, he was the best player in the series. Even with Brunson, Billy arguably being better on offense. Brunson is a bad defender. One of the reasons the Sars scored so many points in game five was that Brunson just repeatedly left him open under the basket. And Kate had his struggles. I feel like the last season's tendency for him to lose, to ball watch kind of did rear its head. But he was, yeah, he was mostly in control.

He was able to get where he wanted to go for the most part. He did really well in the playmaking side of things. And yeah, I feel like, I feel like it was, it was probably the best playoff. Well, this doesn't mean much, but, you know, the best playoff performance since, you know, I don't know. I'm kind of, my memory is disfailing me on the going to work pistons, but notwithstanding tonight, I thought it was very good. And to your point, he didn't really have much help. Yeah. And of course, we also have vets on this team who definitely did step up. Um, And I don't think that any of them are long-term pieces, who we should reasonably see to be his running mate going forward. Yeah.

Yeah, it's how do you, well, let's talk about what ifs a little bit later. So, yeah, one takeaway we definitely have is that, you know, Kate found his way onto the playoff stage. And with the exception of this one game really showed out, which is more than you can say for any pissed. player, aside from Blake, but that was meaningless. Also, he wasn't exactly showing up in the playoff stage. But, like, the first young Pistons player who's come out and really, you know, and really showed out on the playoff stage since I don't know when, you know, because nobody on the going to work team aside from Tashon Prince was really that young. And you have really a third-year player coming in and really just being able to impose his will on a good defensive

team outside of Carlin. Well, you had three strong defenders in the starting lineup and a couple off the bench and a good defensive coach and Tom Tibito even though he's terrible on offense. So I'd call that definitely a takeaway. I know this isn't quite as positive of a takeaway, but the last time you and I recorded, we talked about how this postseason would be a bit of a witness test for Jalen Duren in terms of his ability to play on defense. and I think we got you put it before this we got the data this wasn't the data we wanted

nope I think I feel very confident in saying that we have a very good idea of what Jalen Duren is going to be as a defender he's still young of course improvements are still

possible but the types of improvements that are likely to see in terms of his defensive aware his reactability to just what's happening in front of him on the court, his footwork, these sorts of things. It leaves a lot to be desired on defense. And the loss of Isaiah Stewart, which led to the dramatic increase in utilization of Jalen Duren, who, yes, has very good offensive touch as a passer, as a, the role man.

For a traditional big, yeah. Which is kind of the issue is that I feel like the NICS highlighted like how traditional centers I thought were going to go extinct back in the late 2010s when everybody was starting to shoot. And it's like, is there going to be space for these guys? But one it ended up being is that, okay, you can't shoot and you can't really create. So there's still a place for you, but, you know, your archetype is going to get squeezed. you're only going to be able to stay in this league in a significant role as a traditional big if you're good on defense.

And I feel like this series, I mean, you saw the Knicks really take away the pick and roll. And I feel like it was just very exemplary of the fact that defense is like two-thirds of your job as a traditional big. And Duran, aside from game five in which he was just kind of like below average, which is still far from good enough.

He was terrible. He was just constantly behind. And you just can't do that as traditional big. you got to be good on defense. Sorry, it's hard to ramble on, but literally every single traditional big who is in the playoffs, aside from Jalen Duren is a genuinely good defender. And he and Mark Williams are the only traditional bigs, non-brookies in the league this season who started and we're not at,

we solid defenders. And you have to think about how we got maybe even a little lucky with the Isaiah Stewart injury because we were able to see a lot more. No, no, no, no, no. That's a silver lining. This is a silver lining. That's the best you can get. We lost the series.

So we lost the series, okay. But we got so much, I think, good tape on Jalen Duren for his strengths and weaknesses against a bona fide playoff team that's win now. These are players who are not developing very much going forward. This Knicks team is full of dudes who are professional basketball players at a very high level. Absolutely. Who know their roles and are very experienced at performing under a lot of different circumstance and of a lot of talent. And Jalen Dern got cooked routinely by everybody.

And if anything, it makes the prospect in my mind as a fan of moving. on from Jayland Dern a lot more palatable because we can see, you know, Cade is still going to be able to perform and operate in the pick and roll with near any traditional center who can do a little rolling to the rim. And that is, so it is a loss if we have to move on from Jalen Dern's touch and that's very important and to consider. However, the loss on offense is not going to be greater than the gains on defense by moving on from him. So I think in the, it doesn't have to be this upcoming season necessarily, but at least going forward, I think we sort of have our answer, which is, it's time for Jalen Duren. Other options.

Yeah. Other options to be explored for Jalen Duren. I mean, Isaiah Stewart playing in the series, yes, it's very unfortunate that he did not come. back from injury. Yeah, I agree. And that's probably why we lost the series. Yeah. To be frank.

That was going to be my hypothetical. You know, does, who knows with Ivy. But with Isaiah Stewart, I would say with as close to 100 as you can be, that this would have been a whim with him. And I think that in game one, I think he was on course to play more minutes than Duren and also to finish the game. that J.B. said that he chose to protect him, and that was on one leg, and he outperformed Duren very handily. Paul Reed outperformed Duren in games two and three.

And a lot of it was just, again, traditional bigs are very limited on offense inherently. Reed and Stewart bring less than Duren, who's good on offense for a traditional big, but they're drastically better on defense. And against Brunson in particular, who lives in the pick and roll, it's like with Duren, you have to protect him in a hardcore drop. You saw it today when he got switched on the Brunsum once and got obliterated. So, but with Stu and with Reed, you can switch on him in the pick and roll. You can even blitz him on the pick and roll. And that's why the defense changed so much. So yeah, I think no extension, number one, absolutely not.

No. But I think if you find a way to move on, then you do it because I don't think it would take a nearly unprecedented leap in terms of defensive awareness for him to become as good on defense as he needs to be. That's sort of where I'm out, is that we are ceilinged as a team in terms of what we're capable of performing in terms of how far we get in the playoffs of Jalen Derns, the starting center taking up most of the minutes. I agree. In a hypothetical world where he could be a offensive sort of spark plug backup big, maybe this is an okay scenario for some team. But we have Isaiah Stewart, who is the by far better backup option, maybe one of the best best. backup centers to have around in the game. Oh, absolutely.

Of what he provides on the court and off the court in particular. So in that sense, there really is no role for Jalen Dern to be on this team when he's routinely being outplayed by Paul Reed, who is a guy that they cut and brought back for less. Yeah. Like, you got to admire Paul Reed. I mean, this guy's a trooper. They cut him and lost him four or five million dollars. They can't remember. and he just resigned and came out and played his role.

Yeah. That's professional right there. He is a professional basketball player. So, yeah, anyway, I think, I mean, I called Nixon six before this series. And I would say, I mean, I take no pleasure in being correct about that. I would much prefer to be wrong. But I'd say I was only technically correct because I think with Isaiah Stewart, the Pistons might have won this series in five games.

Yeah. Yeah. I think six at the outside. I feel very strongly about that. So it was a shame, not just for the fans. You saw Isaiah tonight. They showed him on one play, and this guy had just like the 10,000 yards stare.

You could see that he was, I have no doubt that the guy was just in agony not being able to play in his first bow season. One of the guys are the highest compete levels in the league. And yeah. So, yeah, we learned that about Duren, which isn't ideal. I think,

Bickerstaff kind of moved away from just letting Duren play out fourth quarters. I guess the season went down to the final stretch. And I think it would have been, you know, moreocratic minutes in this series. But let's move on in the next one. That'd be Assar Thompson. And on defense, I think he certainly showed what he can do on the highest stage, on the largest stage, rather. He's a nightmare.

Yeah, absolute nightmare on defense, especially against sort of a smaller, more toolsy, crafty offensive player. And like Brunson, who's obviously elite, he routinely shut down Brunson and got the better of that matchup. So at least on that end of the court, Assar Thompson, all defensive routine candidate

for second team at least going forward. Yeah. You feel comfortable with that, right? Yeah, he didn't, just for anybody listening. The reason Asar won't make it this here is because he didn't played 65 games. And I believe you have to hit 65 for all defensive. I'm actually realizing I'm not positive about that. The reason Isaiah Stewart can't make it is because he just didn't play enough minutes. He didn't play 20 minutes in some X number of games. So, but yeah, I agree. He was very good.

You can't really play lockdown defense these days like you used to be able to just because you can't hold guys up and it's too easy to switch. But he plays about as close to lockdown defense as you can because he's just spectacular in navigating screens and did well on help defense. It's just really, really smart defender. And the part of me that wants to cope about a man who's far ahead on offense says that Asar is going to be the better defender. Who knows if that's true? I guess you don't have any comparisons.

But I agree. On defense, he was very, very good. So that's a positive takeaway there about Asar. I wouldn't call this a negative takeaway, more just the reality that we both, I think both believed in. in the beginning is that he needs to be able to shoot. The first four games, he was quite bad on offense, and that really hurt his value.

Yep. He's not going to be able to stick in the rotation as a starter, more of a defensive specialist weapon, if he is unable to improve his offensive utilization. And I really hope he takes this series as a big warning for his NBA future and really focus on improving every aspect of the game on offense because yes, the shooting is definitely the biggest hallmark for him to being able to be useful as like a kickout option on like pick and rolls because as long as he's on the

team with Cade Cunningham, we're spamming pick and rolls. Or just a non-spacing liability. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because there are so many sets where it were Dern and. and ASAR are trying to play the same role and going to the dunker spot. And it's just not not effective because you're clogging the lanes. You're making it so that way there's very easy to defend.

Makes passing out of the pick and roll more difficult and challenging. There's a lot of factors there. But point being, yeah, he needs to shoot. He needs to be able to at the very least provide a little bit of, of more utility on the ball. I would like his decision-making when he is in those tight situations at the end of the shot clock to improve

because teams are still going to give him that going forward. They're going to dare a SAR to make a shot or make a choice in those high-pressure leveraged situations. And that's another thing he has to improve on is his offensive decision-making. I just, I think, sorry, Jack, I think that if he can just become reliable shooter, I mean, I think that's one of the best

three-indy wings in the week, a guy who can start for a championship team. In that event, in that event, he'd be able to effortlessly attack closeouts and, you know, he's a guy who can always find the open man. Yeah, he needs to improve his finishing, though. That's for sure. Even in transition, his finishing is rough.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I would, yeah, I would say it's the shooting most of all. I know I've harped on this quite a few times, but I was feel the need to underline it because I see a lot of questions like, why can't DeSar be a good player without shooting? And it's like, it's not just that shooting is very helpful, which it means you can finish plays in the perimeter. Three-point shot is a very high efficiency. You know, it's also, of course, that it really hurts to not be able to shoot because you can't finish plays from the

perimeter. You're playing with four guys on typical sets in a heavily, you know, very high-volume three-point shooting league. And also, guys just leave you open. And I've got a qualifying, game five. I mean, the reason he got so many points is the Knicks chronically blew coverage on him. The first four games, he was pretty bad. Yeah, it's pretty easy to shut down. Yeah. So, mixed bag, great to see the defense. I wouldn't say it was necessarily mixed. I would just say we continue to know that he needs to become a shooter. It underscored both the strengths and weaknesses of him as a player in all regards. Yeah, I agree. And somebody along the same lines, of course, Ron Holland, who I think we both predicted would not see much time in the series,

like that he and Fontecchio would be the guys who end up outside of the rotation. And same sort of thing. It's like, I love his attitude and his work ethic. But we saw plenty of time, so it's like it hurts when you swing. You get this guy the ball on the perimeter and he can't do anything. But I feel a lot better about his shooting. His touch, I think you can see like a, you know, 36 to 38%. three-point shooter in there, maybe as soon as next season.

I'm very excited for Ron, and I actually attended game three in person. I'm very envious. Yeah, I was up in the gondola, which is the fifth floor of the LCA, and you take an elevator to go up there, and you're sort of right at the rafters where, you know, the smoke and lights are, and you're across from the press box. So you get this bird's eye view of the game, and you're sort of like in the balcony, sort of hovering over the stage almost. Yeah, I'm just, I'm going to interrupt and hijack this convert. I'm just going to hijack this in a different direction.

Tell it, just talk about how the atmosphere was like. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'd love to hear about that because it seemed really good on TV. Oh, it. The crowd was very hostile, which is great. Oh, we were booing Jalen Brunson as soon as he touched the ball every single time for the entire game. We would say Flopper and F.U. Brunson and this sort of thing. And so it was great to absorb that hostility. That was a great playoff atmosphere. And it was loud too. It was super loud. LCA is raucous. And I would highly recommend anybody who's interested in intending a game to see it in the gondola. It's a little bit pricey tickets sometimes. But it's a, a really cool way to experience a game. And you're pretty private. There's not a ton of people

moving around. So it actually is almost intimate like you're at like a TV or a small family, like gathering, watching the game as well. So it is a very interesting dynamic to be up there. You see everything. And the reason I brought this up in regards to Ron Holland is because I was impressed in that game with his activity level in particular. And there was a couple of stretches there where they basically just, this was the bench lineup, right, where they were Paul Reed and Ron Holland

were on the court. I think I saw it was out with foul trouble in that game. Yeah, that's why they went a little bit deeper into the Holland minutes. And it was great to see his activity level. He really pushed the pace and we actually started to have a little bit of like an offensive flow and we kind of had a feeling with him where, okay, Holland gets the rim and actually does something. He is better finishing around the room than Asar does, which is big points in his favor.

And obviously he didn't play much and he was pretty bad throughout the rest of the series outside of like that one stretch where he was kind of playing. like junkyard minutes and just really fighting for every single inch on the court. But you're thinking like this is a guy in 19 years old when he's drafted and he's not expected to maybe even play much minutes period on one of the worst teams in NBA history, fifth overall in a pretty weak draft class. Horrible draft class. And he actually had real playoff minutes. where he was expected to do something on the court.

Not anything major, not as like a fixture by any stretch, but he's actually played with intention, not just in the fading minutes of a blowout. Yeah. That's big. That's big for a guy who was not expected to have anything close to that. I made his free throws, too. Yeah, he did.

That's nice. Yeah, after we think back to that game where he missed the last two, Of course, I didn't blame him for that. I mean, it's you're a rookie in that kind of situation. You missed your 13-year-old in a playoff game. You shouldn't even be there in the first place. Yeah, so, yeah, I made all of his pre-throws, which is great. Yeah, I just feel like Ron is not far off from being a reliable shooter,

which is all he needs to stay in the NBA for a long time. Yeah. But I also feel pretty good about his arm ball upside, and I feel like I felt all season, like you see it in transition, whereas touch is very good. And he just, he's just very raw. He was definitely, I mean, there's no need to mince words here. and this isn't a knock on him. He was definitely nobody made the pistons worse

than Holland in the regular season from an on-off perspective. But that's fine. I mean, I don't care. A guy came in as a very raw rookie who for a lot of teams might have been playing in the G-League. And I think there's a lot to be excited about Ron. It's more of a season takeaway.

Yep, it does. Yeah, but I mean, as a rookie, you don't have to be good to be promising. A lot of rookies are bad, but promising. And, yeah, so it was a Holland take away. takeaway. I'll go on to the next one, which is Dennis Schrooter, who I felt was, you know, he had, he struggled a bit from the floor during the regular season. He was a huge addition in just giving the piston's a secondary handler and played some minutes with Cade, but also just a guy who can handle the ball, you know, when Kate is off the floor, which Ivy really, Ivy's really more of an off guard, in my opinion. Yeah. Even though Bakerstaff never really trusted him very much, in my opinion, either. But in this series, I thought he was great. I love his ad, He really fits right in. And he was good on both ends.

I mean, when it wasn't a star defending Brunson, it was Schroeder, he did a good job. But his intensity, his scoring, his veteran presence. And I think, I mean, the pistons can pay him, well, technically more than anybody who decide from tankers, who probably won't want him, the Nets and the, Chaz. And I think he'll be back next season.

It's really hard for me to see him not being on the team, given the way that he plays just fits perfectly with the attitude. The pistons are trying to cultivate of just being an absolute pain to deal with. Always in your face. Always getting a hand on the ball. Making the extra pass. Being a selfless player. This sort of thing.

He fits perfectly with that identity. And more to your point, he's not going to be that expensive. And do you really want Marcus Sasser to be the presumptive backup point guard? I'm not so sure. I do not. I like Marcus Sasser is just the depth guy. But yeah, I'm just looking at Dennis' stats in this series. And like, wow, was he good?

You know, from a statistical perspective. I mean, tonight, I mean, he was three of nine tonight. I mean, from an efficiency standpoint, he did fine. Like, efficiency drops in the playoffs, you know, nine points on 10 scoring. opportunities wouldn't be great in the regular season, but it's fine in the playoffs. Nine assists against one turnover. And in this series, going into this game, he was averaging, sorry, I'm literally just looking at the stats right now, 13 points on 68% true shooting. Where is it? 66% excuse me. He just had a great series. He was very consistent. He's actually

the guy on the team with the most, I believe with the most playoff experience. He came into this into the series, but 68 games in the postseason, which may have been more than everybody else combined. I think it was more than everybody else combined. Because it's Tobias and who? Beasley has played maybe, I don't know, 12 to 16 games in the playoffs. Tim Hardaway Jr., okay, maybe not everybody combines,

but definitely the most that have been to be. That's a lot of playoff games. And, you know, even though he's 31 at this point. But, yeah, I was just very happy with him. you know and the guys who are available on the open market on the free agent market none of whom the pistons will probably be able to afford are tyus jones de angela russell and the corpse of chris ball so i i think strutter is not only a good fit for this team but it's really the only option i think because they hold his bird rights or early bird rights so

right right so i think it's a perfect fit and a great trade from trajan langdon to basically get a both stop gap this season and potential two to three years more, depending on what that extension looks like, for Schroeder as a backup point guard going forward, I think is great. Yeah. Other takeaways, Tobias Harris, I think he showed his value throughout the regular season, but I also believe showed his value in the playoffs. I mean, he sometimes got squeezed out, which is his persistent weakness.

It's just allowing himself to end up on the outside of the offense. that's more of a coaching thing. But he's still end of the season. It's just, excuse me, end of the series. Averaging about 16 points on very good efficiency. I did a very good job on the boards. And I mean, I'm not going to lie. I'm a Tobias sloppy.

I've always loved the guy, in part just because I think he's a model for whatever sportsman should be. So not so much a takeaway, but I think he just showed his value in the postseason as well as regular season. And that hasn't even take into account. the benefit of his veteran presence, which I know has always been significant. Yeah, it's one of those things where Tobias giveeth and Tobias taketh away, and he has... It gives more, I think, yeah. He definitely gave more of this series and was routinely the only guy outside of Schroeder that I felt good touching the ball, other than Kate, of course. And so that's huge.

And he was not an overpay because... Oh, hell no. Relative to what we were capable of getting at the power forward position for the next few seasons, there really wasn't a better option. Well, you had to donate the cap four, too, or miss out on tens of millions of dollars. Yeah. So that inherently makes him not an overpay. Right, right. Now, that's a business point, but yes.

And anyways, Tobias, really the only downer I have on him in terms of him going forward is just his age and that we are starting to hit sort of that level where drop off is coming in terms of level of play. So that's one thing I was going to put forward for going forward for this team is who's going to be the Tobias Harris replacement. Yeah. Who's going to fill his shoes as he starts to hit his mid-30s? Well, he's 33 in two months. Yep. Oh, about two and a half months, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, he's a two-year guy. I would be very sad to see him traded away.

I'm not going to lie. I actually shed a couple tears the last time he was traded. But, well, part of that was that the trade was also completely horrible. I was like, you got rid of Tobias for this. It's not just Tobias being gone. on, it was also like, oh, goodness, gracious me. Well, because it also set back the timeline. It was just a significant chunk by doing that trade in that way.

It was just so junk. Yeah, it was. Process was bad. It's hard to believe that was seven years ago. It was almost seven years ago. It was three months past seven years ago. It's crazy. Yeah.

Yeah, I think this is a minor one, but I mean, I think Tim Hardaway Jr. showed why he's not a postseason qualified player. The guy, again, this stats, just shove 1 of 6 this game. I mean, the guy is going to end the series shooting around 30%, maybe 31% from 3. I can't do the math in my head. And he's a guy who genuinely offers no value if he's not hitting his 3s. Defensively, I thought he did it better than I expected, but he's still a minus defender.

He doesn't pass. He doesn't rebound. He averaged between rebounds and assists a total of 3.5-ish. and solid veteran guy, but it's like maybe you bring him back as like a 10th man. Also for the sake of cap mechanics, maybe. That's a more complicated question. But yeah, I think the Pistons, it shows the Pistons can improve by upgrading on him. And I think that's Ivy, you know, who ultimately takes his spot.

So that's almost kind of like a positive that you can definitely upgrade easily on Tim Hardaway, Jr. Good dude. But, yeah, he had a bad series. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I think you could almost bundle or compare the two with Beasley and Hardaway. And I think that you're not going to lose a lot of sleep if Tim Hardaway isn't on the team. Whereas I feel like Beasley at the very least shows, both in the regular season and obviously tonight, yep, when he comes alive, it really changes the tune on this team. And if we get a lot of life, you can tell that there's a lot of pressure that is alleviated when when Beasley is is playing in the flow of the offense and in general he's younger right and less 28 four years younger less of an injury history as well to my mind you could definitely spare yourself tim hardaway junior minutes very easily on going forward for ivy just naturally and letting ivy absorb that role coming into next year probably isn't going to hurt you too much. Yeah. And Ivy, just bear in mind, shot 41% from three in, I think 45% on catch and shoots.

Yeah. You didn't do too well on pull-ups, but yeah. I'll say about, well, also, like, one thing, the business ran 10 men this season. 10-man rotation is very rare in the NBA. Bakerstaff prefers like eight. You know, obviously they wanted to get hollow in minutes. I think it's like where you have nine a maximum next season. And when you go down the list, Cade Tobias, starting center, whoever that is,

you know, Beasley, hopefully, Schroeder, Asar, Stuart, Holland. Did I say Ivy? And Ivy, that's, that's nine, I believe. That I didn't miss anybody. So I don't think we'll see 10 guys again next season. And so that pulls T.H.J. further out of there. Beasley had a rough series. I find it hard to fall at him. Sometimes you just have a tough series. And my thought on him is, you know, he's a big dog from the perimeter. Eventually, you know, he's going to eat. And he did tonight. And I think. think you would have in game seven. But yeah, it sucks, but it's like there's no way the Pistons would have been in the playoffs without him. No way. I need to do better in the postseason.

But the guy was amazing on offense in the post season, excuse me, in the regular season. And to your point, yeah, having a guy who draws that much gravity and can finish plays, including tough shots, that high percentage, I mean, I'm still giving Beasley the, you know, the mid-level exception, assuming the Pistons operate above the cap. That's sort of where I land to that you try to maybe figure out to Mardway Jr. on the cheap and have him as a depth guy who can maybe come in and be that sort of veteran role player who can steady the ship, shoot some threes, that sort of thing. But other than that,

Beasley is actually playable. Beasley has a role. Beasley connects with Isaiah Stewart extremely well off the bench. We really missed out a lot on the screen game between the two of them, which is maybe the biggest loss outside of losing the series is we just didn't get to see more of that because that was really, really a season highlight for me was their connection and really transforming our bench into having a real identity with that two-man game and how Beasley could be dynamic on offense and Stewart's dynamic on defense and really have this one-to punch off the bench that I think really is why we made the playoffs outside of Kate Cunningham being amazing is we had two of the better bench

players in the league this year. And he's younger than Hardaway Jr. He's 28. You can definitely give him a nice extension where he's... Give him four years. Yeah. Where he's well compensated. And he can have a long-term role on this team that you could probably feel good about. Yeah. There are two things the Pissons could do this summer. I'll go over this in a future episode in terms of what the Pistons could do cap-wise. One of them is just to sum up to just resign guys, whether it's Tim Hardaway Jr., Dennis Schroeder, and guys who have a cap holds even like windy waters and get yourself with the cap,

and then you have access to the full mid-level exception. This is a route that would give the Pistons more of a shot at retaining both Schroeder. Schroeder, I think, is actually, that keeps coming back to it, the proper penitenti. But it always goes by Schroeder. So with Beasley, then you can give them the full mid-level, which is about $14 million a year. That might sound like a lot. That's basically what Josh Smith was being paid, almost, when it was the biggest contract in Pistence history, like 12 years ago. Now it's less than 10% of the cap.

And the cap is going to rise by the maximum 10% year over year because of the new TV deal. So that's not a bad contract. Just like when Isaiah Stewart signed for $15 million, it's like, well, and if a vacuum, that's a ton of money. In NBA terms, this is not a ton of money. Yep. For, you know, especially for what he brings. So, yeah, Beasley had played close to his, even at 80% of his regular season strength. He, the business would have won the series, but sometimes guys have a tough series. It's just how it goes. It's unfortunate, but his contributions have drastically outweighed that, you know, his regular season contributions,

both on the court and as a veteran. I know he was very well liked. Yep, exactly. And I'm trying to think of who else can we have takeaways from. I think we pretty much kind of it. Paul Reed was a baller. He's probably the best third string center in the league. I don't know if he'll want to be third string center again. And I wonder if the Pistons should go for an athletic big instead.

But he did his job. He worked hard. I think maybe there's a team that'll let him play backup center instead of third string. Mike. Mike. we have a third string center on the roster already. What's that? His name's Jalen Duren.

Yeah. Athletic, he can provide offense. Come on, man. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think Duran, just because he's so athletic, I mean, if his defense, defensive vacuum, it doesn't just take a huge leap. I think he's a guy who's going to stick in the league

for longer than the average guy in that position just because he's so athletic and maybe just, again, maybe I'll end up looking like a complete idiot, but, you know, I feel like he's going to be, end up being kind of like either starter for a really bad team or backup for a somewhat less bad team. Just that defense needs to improve so much or he needs to just shatter his offensive ceiling. I just, I just want the pissing to look elsewhere this summer. Yeah, so I think that's it. Yeah, in terms of takeaways. And just that, yeah, despite that some things have been a bit of a mixed bad.

you know, that we've talked about. Of course, I think we're both very satisfied with the outcome of this season. And yeah, it's been fun. I mean, and there's just so much room for growth. I think a lot still depends on development. And, like, what would you do? I mean, if you had to choose between, like, the opportunity to big trade this summer, I don't think it's to be Devin Booker.

I don't think Devin Booker's going anywhere. But, you know, because Ishby is not just going to eat losing. with no picks. Yeah. Uh, HBO, it's like Cuban on speed. Terrible.

Terrible so far. Oh, man. He has gone way too hard at the wind now sort of thing. And it's rearing its ugly head because what's happening with KD and this whole, the whole roster is basically destroyed to accommodate these huge salaries. It's just, it's an ugly situation. No, no picks. No flex.

ability, tough to see what they do from here. Same with the bucks, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Conversation for another time. I will say, though, and I'm sure you agree. I've not the slightest bit of interest in the Pistons, even inquiring about Janus. Why?

For what cause? Yeah, he's reached overrated territory. It's just, it's so hard to build a team around him. And I think the 2021 champion should even has a giant asterisk next to it. So I think it's reasonable to doubt whether the Janus, is really practical, even before he was like 31 years old, which is often the age of incipient athletic decline. But let's see, what was, okay, yeah, my question was at this point, and I'll close it out after this, is this summer, like, if a good potential win now trade

opportunity became available, would you do that or would you want to wait and see what you have in the youth? Like, especially Ivy and Holland and Assar. I'm not obviously not talking as much, about Duren. But it waits and see if you might have the ability to home grow somebody and retain those assets. That is the angle I would take is unless a very good replacement at center comes available, then try to make that happen in terms of a starting center, not replacing Stewart unless his knee explodes. Yeah, it seems to have just been inflammation. just the problem is with that. Just nothing. But if you have that degree of inflammation, only rest is going to make a difference.

Right. Only time. Horrible timing, though. Yeah, but he had been doing a lot on defense to carry the team to this point. So it kind of was some injury was bound to happen for us because we had a lot of good health this season. Oh, it was fantastic health. Yep. So that kind of caught up with us in a small way.

Thankfully, it wasn't Cade. This is me knocking on Wood. Oh, yeah. That would have been a disaster. Yes. So if a center becomes available, I think that we've seen what the ceiling is on Duren in terms of a playoff setting, and especially as a starting center who you have to play through and not in a rotation in particular. Like maybe you can disguise and hide some of these defensive shortcomings to make up an offense in a rotation setting. and he can come in and sort of be this spark plug defensive or sorry offensive juggernaut.

You already have a steward plane. Yeah. For a few minutes, yet in a in a playoff setting going forward, but I don't know if that's really the right for this team. So if a center becomes available at a reasonable enough cost or situation, depending on what that looks like, I'm not sure. We could hypothesize later, depending on how the market shakes out. Not free, free agent necessarily. I'm just saying in a trade because. Can't.

Trade flexibility. No, I know. I know. The market is dead. Oh, it's bad, but it would take a sign to trade. I put it that way. Yeah, right. And other than that, I think you home, you just home grow.

Yeah. I mean, you see, you see what Ivy can do. Yeah. Now that he gets, you know, full off season, because it seems like he's pretty much back to, to relative health and can actually practice. So he'll be able to get genuine practice reps in over the course. Well, at least in terms of like That was Iverson.

Oh, Iverson. We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. Yeah. Practice. No, but a point being is Ivy, I think, would be great to see where he's at coming into the season next year. Hopefully he can start strong.

And then see where Holland Assar get to as players after a full off season for for both of them, first offseason for Asar, too, as well as Holland. So that's important to recognize that... The Klotz. That Asar lost his offseason and his brother had an offseason. And this is a big reason where players' projections start to diverge in terms of outcomes because these early off-season very, very much matter in terms of development for young players. to sort of get established and figure out what their big strengths and weaknesses are in the NBA environment.

So that's where I land is a center you make, you inquire about, see what's out there. Don't extend Duran by any means. He needs to play with some fire under his belly to really ensure that he improves. Well, even then, I mean, you can't just intent. I feel like he worked hard for a lot of the. season after his early stages, but that just made him a poor defender. Roughly a little bit past where he was as a rookie. I just don't think fire is going to improve his brains. Yeah, but I mean, I was just asking, like, I think you've answered the question, but like even if like a really

good opportunity, you know, somebody like a star becomes available, uh, who would cost your young assets. Um, and yeah, I, I think that was what you're answering. Um, I don't think that it's reasonable for us to make that type of move. I agree. sign you resign Beasley, you re-sign Schroeder, and you get Ivy healthy and you see what you have. Yeah, I agree. You just, yeah, you don't want to, I mean, if you can home grow these guys, yeah, you keep those assets. I'd like to see where Ivy is, where Sars, where Holland is. Yeah.

I'll close this out with just one hypothetical. And, you know, this is obviously, you know, you're dealing with like the most malleable. and non-hardball executive in the league. This is me being extremely facetious in Pat Riley, who will hardball anybody to a fault. Like, worse than Danny Aange in some ways. Danny Aange will just say this is my price, and I'm going to go golfing.

And if you don't want to meet it, if nobody wants to meet it, then we'll just keep him. And I don't, you can make whatever offers you want, and I don't care unless they meet my price. So Riley will hardball his players to the point of, of destroying his team's window, like with Jimmy Butler.

Yeah. So he's not a guy who's going to compromise on price, obviously. But it's like, do the heat blow it up. I kind of feel like they have to, to a degree at least. And does Bam out of bio become available? And Bam is an interesting case because he meets sort of that big man type of niche that we are looking to maybe upgrade from. Strong role, man, strong defender.

Shooting upside. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but he'd cost a lot. That's just, that's the trouble. Like, if all you have to do is send out, like, salary and a couple first round picks for BAM, it's like, I think that's, I think that's a no-brainer. Another guy, speaking of hardballers, is the other guy in the conversation is potentially Walker, excuse me, Kessler Walker. I always mess up his name because Walker is typically your last name.

But a guy who's not perfect, but a decent switch defender, strong drop defender. you know, strong role man, good finisher. And a guy who's not, like, great, but is definitely good enough to start on a good team. But Danny Ains sets a high price too. But like if you just have to kick out salary, which would be a small amount of salary, and like a first round pick and some second round picks,

again, that would require the price to go down, which never happens. But I would, like, Duran, you send over Duran, and like a first round pick, I would do that for Walker Kessler. Would you do that? Oh, easily. Easily. I think we can afford to spare a first to get a guy who is going to play for maybe 10 years on our team.

Yeah, I think that, yeah. Of course, that's, you never know who's available for what. Of course. Because there's 30, there's 30 teams, 29 other teams other than you. And when you're doing a trade, there's 28 other teams not involved. So there's a lot of potential options and suitors out there to meet whatever price a guy like Danny Aange would set. And I think those are the two guys that I look at. And I think, what is Utah doing?

Could these guys be available? Same thing with Bam. What is Miami doing? Could these guys be available? And if they are, you have a need at center in the immediate term and long term. And obviously, Walker Kessler is going to help your long term out a little bit more. more just due to age, but in terms of sealing in an immediate sense, BAM would be a tremendous upgrade and would make us probably one of the nastiest defensive teams in the league just with

the reality of having Assar Thompson, Isaiah Stewart, and Bamadabio. Yeah. Yeah, of course, that cost would be steep. Tremendous. Would be tremendous. You would be sending, you might even be sending out a Sarr. Yeah, definitely picks. Yeah, definitely probably quite a cost you at least three first round picks, I would say.

Anyway, yeah, any closing thoughts, anything we haven't covered yet. I mean, I cannot be happier about the pistons other than maybe a playoff home win. And maybe that's good that the team has a little bit of fire now. Be like, I'm going to get that home win next playoffs. So they have something to fight for. So I think it's good. Overall, there's nothing really to say it other than let's see what trade can do in free agency and with trades and that sort of thing. Yeah.

Okay, yeah, I'll end up my closing thought. If you're a next fan listening to this, just remember the Pist and 7-1 a playoff series since 2008, and they still have more than twice as many playoff series wins as your team in the last 25 years. So, yeah, suck on that. All right. Anyway, thanks, Bryce. It was a pleasure as always. And to all the listeners, as always, thank you for listening. Hope you doing great. We'll catch you in the next episode.