Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 27: Dwane Casey’s Coaching, Troy Weaver’s Plan, and the Christian Wood Situation

Episode Date: January 1, 2021

This episode recaps the season's first two games, critiques Dwane Casey, discusses Troy Weaver's vision for the team, speaks on what we know about Christian Wood's departure from Detroit, and concludes with a quick evaluation of Blake Griffin's performance thus far.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Driving to the Basket. I am Mike. I'm here with Tommy and our special guest host for today, Dante, also known as Chef Curry Sauce on the Pistons and also the Lions subreddit. You know, Chef has the luxury of being invested in two Detroit sports teams who cause them constant pain. Yeah, good weekend. Great weekend. Yeah, rather than only one like Tommy and I. So in any event, so we're here today to talk about what we have. seen thus far on the season. It's only been a couple of games. That said, it hasn't really been a particularly enjoyable couple of games. So we'll talk about that. We will talk about, you know, that of course, you know, in the vein of how things have gone so far, Dwayne Casey, you know, Troy Weaver, it'll dovetail just into into what went on with, you know,

really the roster he created. We'll talk about the players that we had spoken about tracking throughout the season in the last episode. And then we'll move on to some talk about how Blake Griffin is looking and then end with a little bit about Christian Wood and what that situation looked like. I know there's been, it seems like some confusion amongst fans as to, you know, would have been willing to stay in Detroit or not. And we'll just talk about what evidence we have for either side of that equation. But just to start, so the Pistons have played two games.

Now, it should be noted that none of the three of us went into this season. thinking the Pistons were here to win games. I mean, not of us. I mean, Tommy and I have certainly been on record about that. And Dante did not either. So nothing that we are going to say here is going to be about, well, you know, I wish that Casey had done X to help the Pistons win these games or why didn't he do this because the Pistons could have won or respect to Weaver, why didn't he assemble a roster

that could win? I mean, it's like this team is rebuilding. The best possible situation is that they get the number on overall draft pick. However, in a rebuild, you're going to be losing a lot, but the idea is that you lose right. The idea is that you are losing while giving maximum opportunity for the development of your players. That doesn't mean just throwing them into the fire and just putting them in any situation whatsoever. But it means giving them those opportunities and it means giving them those opportunities to make mistakes. So basically we've got here, I know Tommy is just a little bit resigned and is generally fine if the Pistons lose.

I know you don't think this is ideal. Dante was enraged. I was somewhere in between rage and depression after these two games. Yeah, it was a nice minute. We've gotten a lot of practice at that. Yeah. So why don't you take it away? What did you think about these first two games?

Well, I think there's everything you said, Mike, is 100% right. So it's a rebuilding year. So none of what we're saying is in the vein of exactly like you said. I wish Casey would have done this so we could have won. Because we, like in the broader sense, we want to lose. we know that they're going to lose but the way that they did it was I felt like I know we were talking

before the before we started recording it it felt like a waste of my my nights to be honest like there's losing with a rebuilding team and playing your young guys and making sure they get you know they get that experience at NBA level game speed and then there's losing with a nursing home

on the court like I don't like especially this last game we're sitting there and it's Derek Rose, De Lawn Wright, Jeremy Grant, Blake Griffin and Mason Plumley, playing like the entire, almost the entire fourth quarter in all of first overtime and all of second overtime.

Like I just don't, I don't get it, Mike. I don't know if you want to comment on that, why that could be the case. I know you were talking about that's kind of how Casey is as a coach, but why, like, why do you think we're seeing this? So, I don't know, I've got, I've got kind of a, you know, a lengthy rant of my own about that. I just want to let Tommy weigh in here.

Tommy, I know you weren't quite as upset at either of us because, you know, of course, whatever happened in those games, the Pistons did lose. And I know, I know that's really what you're most focused on in this season. But did you have any other thoughts? Yeah. Losing is obviously the most important thing to me. more upset if we'd won those games and the young guys, even if they've gotten a little bit more opportunity. There's a balance that you need to strike there, obviously, but there's a lot of

talent in the next couple of years. And I'm already looking at like three guys that I'd like the Pistons to have a shot at next year. So being a bottom team is still the priority for me. But at the same time, I want the young guys to have maybe not necessarily thrown into the fire, but the correct amount of opportunity. I feel like the only one who's gotten enough opportunity is Killian Hayes. And, I mean, we've talked about in the last couple episodes, I would prefer to see him off the bench in some cases or take him off the ball, put him at shooting guards

so we can develop some of his skills instead of trying to do everything at once because I feel like he's being overwhelmed by everything he has to do and coming from a much weaker league, I feel like he's not ready. So there are other guys like Sadiq Bay, especially, who I think has starting capability, maybe not right this second, but within a couple years, he has a very polished game.

And as a role player that he projects to be, I feel like he has a lot less that he needs to work on to be a capable NBA player right now. So I'd like to see him get more. And guys like Stuart even, like we were talking a little bit before. Like, why did he not get any minutes? And I know that they said they wanted to play Sega with the five this year. And I'm probably more understanding of it than you guys. Because I feel like Stewart, just from the situation that he came from in Washington where he was like handling the ball, a lot of post possessions,

and then playing almost exclusively zone defense, coming from that to an NBA offense where you have to switch on the perimeter, post game is not, it's not a priority. I feel like he wasn't ready. There were times in the games in preseason where he was two feet in the paint, not guarding anybody for like upwards of five seconds, and that's a technical every time. So I feel like he's not ready.

And I think Casey is keeping him on the bench because of that. But at the same time, I feel like I'd like him to get something. So that's where I'm at. I still want the losses more than anything. So as long as we lose, I still feel pretty good on the night. But I guess that says a lot about the state of Detroit sports is that's what I'm looking forward to. Oh, yeah. I think we all want them to lose.

My issue is like with Wayne Casey, right, okay, so you're in a tight game. with the bottom feeding tabs, honestly. I know they're 3 and O, but I bet my whole bank account, they're not going to scrape the playoffs, right? It's just not going to happen. So, okay, it's great to lose these games. It's great to lose the games,

especially to teams that are going to be in contention for those high draft picks as well. So I think we're all on board that losing is a priority. What I don't understand is why you would then take out your developmental pieces, put in the veterans who are just going to lose anyway. because I know Tommy you talked about how it doesn't look like Killian is ready. And I agree with you. He hasn't been, you know, to say he's been nothing special as an understatement,

I think he's been almost actively bad. But, you know, Derek Rose turned the ball over, what, three, four times in a row in crunch time against Cleveland? Like, Killian can do that too. That's what I mean. So I don't, it just, it defies all conventional logic to me. and I think Weaver has done quite the job of kind of reshaping the roster. But when you sign guys like DeLonwright, Mason Plumley, you know, Dwayne Casey is the kind of coach where he's going to go out and try and win every game.

I don't think Casey's on board with the tank. Like he wants to win on a game by game basis. So when he has those options available, he's going to opt for the veterans, as we've seen, like with his time in Toronto too, almost every single time. and that's just not conducive, in my opinion, to player development. I'm not an NBA coach. I'm not Dwayne Casey. I don't know what he sees in practice. But I've played, like me personally, I played sports at a high level pretty much my whole

life. And I can tell you that there's nothing like in-game experience when you're moving up to a higher level of play. And it's usually the speed of the game that you need to adjust to. So I'm not sure what Killian is learning, watching. Derek Rose dribble the ball off his foot in double overtime, as opposed to what he might learn, actually being out there,

doing things himself. Same with Sadiq Bay, same with Isaiah Stewart, same with, you know, Saku Dumboya, who I know he rolled his ankle, but six minutes,

seven minutes, whatever he got. I just, I don't think it's excusable for a rebuilding team. I don't. That's my opinion anyway. Yeah, like,

so I had been thinking that, that there were no redeeming qualities whatsoever about that game, you did note the single redeeming quality is that the Pistons lost. Yeah, they lost the Cavaliers in particular. That is the only thing. But the game was just one of, the first two games the Pistons have played have been two of the most distressing games I have ever watched ever. And, and I was, you know, part of it is just I was really excited for the season.

It's like, okay, you know, we finally got a team that's on a rebuild and they're going to do the right thing. Like the free agency was tough for me because I was like, this is not right. This is not really, I really don't think this is how it should have been handled. I think that you have, you know, what you're doing is a typical rebuild. And I think it's the typical plan because this is the best way to do things, in my opinion. You feel a roster that's going to give maximum opportunity your young players, while at the same time having enough of a veteran presence to keep it steady and maybe not be too terrible.

You can do that by just signing veterans to short-term contracts. Yeah. Yeah, just, you know, I'll get into this, whatever the case, I'll get into this when we talk about Weaver a little bit later. So I was disappointed at that. And then I went into the season I've watched these two games, it was even more disappointing. Like, nothing about these games made any sense as far as what on earth are the Pistons possibly trying to accomplish with what Casey is doing right now. I found myself pining back to the days in which the Pistons were incompetently trying to win every year by just, you know, shooting for the sixth, seventh eighth seed. Because it was stupid, but at least you looked at it and you can look at what was going on in game and you say that even though maybe it's being coached poorly, we know what they're trying to do.

what they're doing makes sense. At least they're trying to win games, even if the coaches are often doing stupid things. Yeah, it's a direction. Yeah, it's a direction. In this case, it's like you're not trying to win games. Your team can't win games, and you're not playing your young players.

Yeah. What on, yeah, like, what could you possibly be doing here? And why do we have to suffer as fans under such, you know, hideous ineptitude from, you know, certainly from the coaches. Like, uh, exact word I would use ineptus. Yeah, like, like just this, it was just this, this very strange, like I understand I have no control over what happens in sports, but this was

just this very palpable sense of powerlessness. It's like, please give us competent people in charge. And what you said about Casey, absolutely right. If he has his veterans, he will lean on them. He did this in Toronto constantly. And this, he, I believe wrongly gets a reputation as a developer of players. Yes, players did develop under his watch in Toronto. And yes, some of them did credit him. But basically that bench mob, a lot of whom became part of the Future Corps of Toronto, like You know, Seacum, Fred Van Fleet, Dwight Powell, Yacob Pertil, who got sent over to San Antonio in the winner trade. And who am I forgetting here. I'm forgetting somebody.

But whatever the case, De Lawn Wright, that's who I'm forgetting, ironically. So those guys got their shot when Masay Ujiri, the highly competent general manager, or I think president of basketball operations, whatever, of the Toronto Raptors, in Casey's final season, wiped the roster clean of his bench veterans. The only veterans left on the team who were going to have a place in the rotation, were De Rosen and Lowry, of course. Sergei Baca, Jonas Valanchunis, and C.J. Miles was the only bench veteran left. So more or less, Casey had no choice but to play these young players.

That was also the season in which Masai, like basically Casey had before, before that season, just played a really, the kind of offense you see in Detroit, basically. Super unimaginative, super rigid, really not creative at all, very predictable, and based around one-on-one offense by, in that case, by Kyle Lowry and DeMardo Rosen. And it just, you know, it really didn't work. And that final year, Messiah said, okay, well, you know, of course I'm exaggerating a little bit here, but it's more or less well, like, okay, you're not running the offense this year. We're running a new offense.

And Nick Nurse, who was the assistant coach at the time, is going to do that. And the Raptors had their best season ever. And those young players got to play in a real offense rather than just kind of standing around while the veterans just did ISO after ISO. And that strategy didn't work, by the way. It was just, it became a meme in Toronto. What did they call it, Tommy? Oh, the secret plays.

The secret plays, right. Yeah, it was DeRosa's. Yeah. So I don't know if you guys remember this was, you know, just from an instance in which the Pistons were involved. This was in 2016, 2017. The Pistons came back from like an 18-point deficit against the Raptors in the fourth quarter.

Yep. And that was because, Toronto's place were isolation, isolation, isolation, isolation. And this lasted for about the last five minutes of the third and the entire fourth quarter. And the Raptors could, you know, the offense tanked. So in that season, the young players got to play as part of a real offense. But whatever the case, that was also the year in which the Raptors were the best regular season ever, to that date.

And Casey won coach of the year. And then just went back to all of his old bad habits in the playoffs and got fired. And Nick Nurse came in. and whatever you want to say about his roster and sure, Golden State of these injuries, but he won a championship. And then he won the Coach of the Year award that he had more or less won already in 2018,

in 2017, 2018. So just this is what Casey does. He, he's, this is not a matter of, this is the first two games of the season. It is the first two games of the season, but this is what Casey does. And we have a very long history to demonstrate that. He will lean on his veterans.

He will run an unimaginative offense. And if he has veterans who can ISO, he's that's going to be the primary feature of his offense and that's what we've seen it's griffin it's rose it's and one of them is going to be on the floor at all times and those are awful players to have around on a rebuild not because of their character they're good guys by all accounts and maybe be decent mentors but they're not system players there are guys who focus on one-on-one offense and they don't play in a system and that's but they're the guys who are going to get who are going to get the opportunities under casey so but yeah just watching him fields you know all these veterans at the end of a close game

you know, or be a meaningless win and the Pistons don't really want to win it and the Pistons are a bad team anyway. It's like you guys said, you've got to put these players, you've got to give them the opportunity. Of course. You know, just to see what they can do.

And with Casey, it seems to be like, oh, they have to earn their minutes. Like, they got some minutes because he played really hard in practice. And it's like, dude, this is not how it works for you, for you, Dwayne Jacey. The veterans lose minutes. That's what they do. They don't, the young guys don't earn them.

And it's a fucking rebuild, pardon the language. You want these players to begin of these opportunities. You do not want them to have to really work hard to earn their way into the lineup. Sure. Well, look at the Cavs. Look at Isaac Okoro. Didn't score a single point. Plays, what, 40 minutes?

And everyone. And it's like, I can't imagine that, you know, Isaac is going home and he's like, oh, man. Like, I wish they kept me on the bench so I could have sat and learned. Like, he doesn't care that he scored zero points. He got to play in an NBA game. think that's more valuable than, you know, sitting on the bench and watching. And then maybe that's just my own experience, you know, playing sports talking. But I don't see any scenarios in which no playing time in meaningful games, in crucial situations,

results in good player development. I don't. I think it should be out there. You've invested in them, three first round picks. Let them go out there and play. Yeah. And I legitimately, like, I've watched a lot of NBA basketball. I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a rebuilding team do anything like that.

Like, you're rebuilding teams you see in the NBA. They are generally fielding, they're generally fielding young players in leading roles in their starting lineup, usually multiple young players in leading roles in the starting lineup and off the bench. I have never seen a team, an ostensibly rebuilding team that is not aiming to win, play five veterans, you know, down the stretch of a close game. for the last five minutes of the fourth and then both over times. Overtimes. Yeah.

It did not make the slightest lick of sense. And for me, it's kind of like a heading exploding moment where it's like blind. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a development here. This is the simplest thing. Why can't the pistons do this? How hard is it not to screw this up?

It's not hard. Yeah. It's not hard. And that's a bit of a fault of Troy Weavers, if we're being honest, because it's like you said, Mike, yeah, you do need some some semblance of a veteran presence. you can't just put, you know, 10 guys on your roster who are just fresh out of high school. But at the same time, those veterans that you bring in, they don't necessarily have to be of starter or fringe starter quality, which would allow a coach like Casey to then play someone

like Dillon Wright for 48 minutes or however long you played. It's just ridiculous. And I know we were talking before the podcast too. I'm sitting watching this last game with my dad. And I remember when I saw the lineup that was still out there for. the first overtime, I got this feeling in the pit of my stomach, like, what are we? Why? What is this? And I said it to my dad and I'm like shaking my hands and he's like, you need to relax. I'm like, okay, well, yeah, but I hate it. Well, but I hate what I'm looking at. I hate it.

And I was proven correct because not only did you not pick up the win, which I guess is good in the long run. You're, you're, you guys get it. The veterans play like shit. Yeah. And here's the thing is They play terrible. Yeah, it's like Casey wants to talk about having, and this is just another irritating wrinkle about Duane Casey. It's like, number one, just the defaulting the veterans is just dumb, in my opinion. And it's dumb, and it's inexcusably stupid in the context of a rebuild. And, but it's like, clearly your veterans don't have to earn anything. It's like, you're just going to send Rose and Griffin on endless isos and watch them blow at 10-web was like a 10-point lead.

In regulation, and then and over it. time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, it's like, well, they can do whatever they want. Like, clearly you're not, you're not musling them at all. It's just the thing. It's like, it's like Dwayne Casey, when he was fired by the Raptors, his, his limitations were known, were very known. And it was just the case of the pistons, snapping up somebody. I think that was Tom Gores, honestly, who saw, oh, my God, we're trying to compete. We got Blake Griffin coach of the year. Yeah, baby, this is going to be awesome. Yeah. Probably. Yeah, because there was no big market for Casey. He had just

one coach of the year. The Pistons were really, they were pretty late in firing Stan Van Gundy, and Dwayne Gacy was still available. He was not snapped up by a team. No. And yeah, he talked about, oh, I was plenty on taking some time off, but Tom Gores really talked to me and sold me on his vision of the Pistons. It's like, dude, Tom Gores sold you on your vision of your bank account being $30 million larger. Seriously. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, not even a vision here at this point, especially with what we saw in the court. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure what the vision is. I don't know. Are you trying to do? What are we doing? Like, what are we doing? Yeah. And it's like, it's like, I empathize absolutely with you with not being able to just, you know, just relax.

Because it's like, we've been dealing with this for such a long time with the Pistons. And now they're finally rebuilding. And a rebuilding year is the easiest thing. It's just a development year. Why? How hard is it not to screw this up? Well, I've, I've told all the people that I speak to about, you know, I've left comments and even on Twitter, whatever. I would gladly watch them go 0 and 82. And I'd watch every single game. If I'm watching, Killian Hayes, Josh Jackson, Sveemakai Luke, Seekudemboa, Isaiah Stewart, Sadiq Bay, whatever. It's okay.

It's okay if we lose. And you're, because, you know, you've got these fans who are so invested in the team, you're actively watching these players develop every single night when they're out there. Like the Grizzlies did with Jaumerant, right? I know he was a super high traffic, but you toss them out there. you see how it goes. It's enjoyable to watch. Yeah.

So I'd watch them go 0 and 82. If it meant I got to see the players that I've invested time, you know, into discussing and imagining what their future might look like. If I get to watch them actually go out there and do meaningful things. But instead, I'm spending my Saturday night sitting and watching Derek Rose dribbled the ball off his foot four times. And I, you know, I love Derek. We all do.

I think he's, I think he's a great player. but it's just not only is it not fun it's it's worse than not fun it's directionless it's so holy and completely pointless it's a waste of NBA minutes that you could be giving to these guys who need it so that's where I'm at yeah we saw yesterday Casey come out and say that's that oh it's a failure this year if I don't get you know if I don't get a lot of minutes for for Killian Hayes and Isaiah Stewart and Sadiq Bay oddly enough you forgot about secu but in any event, it's like, I've seen a lot of people hypothesized this, and I think it's probably accurate that I think he got a talking to from the front office.

Because suddenly Rose and Griffin are out also, and Griffin is out on what is not a back-to-back. Maybe, whatever, maybe I'm wrong, but. No, I think you're right. He also came out afterward. And you were saying all those things in his post-presser about, oh, well, you know, it's a failure on me if I don't feed these guys' minutes. And it's like, well, you just didn't do that. Yeah, exactly for two days.

You literally just didn't do the thing that you said you're supposed to do. So clearly there's some intervention, right? Because if you're Troy Weaver, you come in, you blow, you blow this team up, rightfully so in my opinion, whether you agree with all the moves he's made or not. At least he's doing something. Like he came to qualify. He had to qualify. He came out and said, oh, but, you know, that development may not happen on the floor.

Yeah. Yeah. So in any events, Tom, Anna, we haven't heard from you to one. long time. I know we've, uh, I was actually that exactly week that you just mentioned because I, I think I, when we talked, I said, I'm going to wait a few games to see what he does. Maybe he, like, slowly brings these guys into the lineup and it, and it kind of happened. Um, we do play a back-to-back with this Atlanta game and then, uh, there's one more, I think, on Tuesday. So, I mean, maybe we'll see more of that. I don't think, they didn't pull Rose and Griffin out for back-to-backs

last year, I don't think. So that's something. Casey's not the kind of guy. Maybe that's why I've been, I don't know, fairly calm about this. But Casey's never been the guy to just give minutes to, you know, his young guys. And I know that we'd all like to see that. But he has a method and he sticks to that. And I don't know.

Maybe I just, I think about that and I understand it. I don't like it. I would obviously just the same way as you guys, I would prefer to see these guys get way more minutes. I would prefer it be closer to like a 50-50 split. Like have your veterans play and then give your young guys extended minutes off the bench and then have a good mix of young guys and vets playing in crunch time if that's what happens. And of course, I agree with you, you know, this hasn't been ideal, but I think they're starting to trend in the right direction.

And that's kind of been the story of Troy Weaver. I know we don't like a lot of the moves that he made this offseason. And I think we'll talk about that more if we talk about Christian Wood. I mean, let's go straight into that right now. What do you, I mean, I know we haven't yet on this podcast talked at length about weavers, about Weaver's just decisions throughout free agency. I mean, we've gotten to see the team on the floor for a couple of games. Again, neither of us care about this team winning.

But this as far as how this team functions and also in the context of giving that opportunity and giving that best environment for the younger players. to grow up. And so what are your thoughts about that, Tommy, so far? I'll start by saying that we've received intent on spending all of our money to the point where it cost us some flexibility next year and, you know, some stretched contracts later, you know, five years of dead money in some cases. So in that way, I'm kind of happy that he didn't bring back Christian Wood because I think

we would have won a lot more games. I think guys like Christian Wood are like the future. meta of the NBA. Guys who are very mobile, attack the basket hard, but can stretch the floor. That's extremely useful, you know. It's not just like, it's not those guys like Curry who, they just have so much offball gravity that they make everybody around them better. It's, you've opened up the paint, you have another target on the perimeter to kick

out to, and that's a guy who's very capable of taking it inside. Now, you look at what Weaver's done. He's brought in three guys who, Plumley, Stewart, and Okafore. these guys are not known for being rim runners or guys who can catch the lob really well. These are guys who mostly focus on post moves. Plumley is, he's not a super athletic player. He's just, you know, he has to learn his teammates, and then he can pick their spots, and he can play smart.

But Christian Wood could just brute force it. He was just so talented and he had so much natural athleticism. He was able to, I think he would have been a much better pick and roll partner for Killian. Oh, no doubt about that. No doubt about that. Totally. Better for their development. development, I think that results in a lot more wins. I mean, we've had two really close losses

now, but what if those were two wins? And if Troy Weaver is intent on maybe he's not able to afford Jeremy Grant at that point, but maybe there's another small four with the leftover. Let's say that it would have cost us $16 million to get Christian Wood. The combined cost of Plumley and Grant was 28. So that's another, what, $12 million that you can spend on a small forward, who's probably going to take minutes away from the young guys. I mean, I think that team wins a lot more games. Weaver has hard-capped the level of play that we can put on the floor by making our last line of defense at the five guys who are unathletic and can't move well.

So in that sense, we're going to lose games because of that. And in that way that I'm happy, but if I could have chosen to just keep Christian Wood and just shirk on a bunch of other positions so that you just have, you know, role players on the perimeter that you can kick out to and a good pick and roll combo in Killing Hayes and Christian Wood. I would have preferred that.

Me too. If Weaver is intent on winning with Christian Wood, I think we'd be a much better team, and that really hurts our rebuild. Yeah, I don't know. I think one thing you're saying is that, sure, we're going to lose a lot now. I think the, sure, that's entirely probable, I would say.

But the unfortunate thing is that it didn't happen by design, much is just Weaver making a lot of mistakes. I mean, the team would have been bad anyway. There's nothing you could do in free agency. I don't have this a winning team. But having three traditional centers and just having, just what's the best of the roster right now with a ton of veterans. I mean, yeah, you're going to lose a lot of games, but you're not going to lose a lot of

games, I think we've looked at this and said, okay, here's a roster that's going to lose a lot of games. I don't think he looked at it and said, well, I want to spend a crap lot of money, all of our caps space and flexibility and stretch a bunch of salary so that we can lose as many games as possible. That's something you can do without spending any gap space at all, at a very little, you know. But yeah, the team looks like a mess, of course. And I don't agree that the Pistons would have won a great deal more with Christian Wood. Sure, he would have been better. He's still operating in a Griffin offense where he's going to be the

marginalized member of the front courts. And you can't really get much on the free agent market. And there's just like $10 million. You know, that would get you, you know, I would guess your best. I mean, there's one thing. The free agent crop in this in this off sequence is weak, like very weak. Maybe it gets you Jay Crowder. And Jay Crowder is not a needle mover. I mean, if anything, he'd be absolutely a weaver player,

kind of like an athletic forward who plays really hard on this defense. But I just, I don't think that maybe the Pistons would be one in one right now, but that's still a bad team. I agree he's a vastly better pick and roll partner than Plumley. Plumley is not a bad pick and roll scorer because he's a decent score. from, he's actually pretty efficient score from beneath the basket, but you can't pop. He's not a lot of threats. And you're not going to get him the ball three feet away from the basket and watch him score with it efficiently or anywhere near as efficiently as Christian would. Yeah, let me clarify. I don't think this was some like incredible balancing act that Weaver is doing where he's like, well, I want to, you know, make it so that we're bringing in these high character guys while still losing enough games. I think his ultimate goal was just bringing in guys that he knows our high character. And that was paramount for this year.

and in doing so, he's brought in three traditional centers that are probably going to help us lose games. Yeah, I know you weren't saying it would rather just lose the games. Yeah, yeah, I know you weren't saying that he had done it deliberately. I'm saying it's unfortunate that I'm saying that it would be for you. I know, I respect a viewpoint that it's like you're going to lose games and that's really what you're looking for. And great. For me, it's like, I don't think it's any consolation that are, or really any, you know, it is not heartening that really it was more that just the GM

stumbled into this situation. There was mistakes. There were my opinion, there were mistakes. So, Dantze, what were your thoughts about what we saw from we were in the offseason? There were moves that I liked and there were moves that I didn't, which I think is probably similar to you too. So something like, you know, Josh Jackson, for example, that's great. Like, that's exactly the type of thing that you want to see out of a rebuilding team.

It's like, okay, here's a young guy who's got the draft pedigree. He hasn't put it all together for whatever reason. But let's take a flyer on him and let's make sure it's not just a one-year deal in case he pops. We'll do like a cheap because it's a two-year deal, right? I think two years, 10 million. Yep. Josh accent. Yeah.

So those are the moves I like. Being aggressive in the draft and like attacking the draft like he said, I know it costs us some future flexibility. But at the same time, the more dart throws you get at the board, the better chance you have of, you know, hitting the bullseye, right? So in my opinion, the more draft picks you can get the better. So those are things that I like. Mason Plumley, I know he had a really good game,

game one and a decent game two. I don't love it. Just to piggyback off what you guys have said, I probably would have preferred to see Christian Wood. And Tommy, I disagree a bit. I don't think he would have raised our wind sealing that significantly because he's a good player. I don't think he's a star.

And the reason I would have liked to see him is because Yeah, he's just a much more effective pick and roll guy with Killian. And honestly, he's more fun to watch. Serious. Because we sit there. This was the longest off season we're ever going to see for the Pistons, in my opinion, right? So we sit there all year waiting for basketball to come back. And now it's back.

And do I want to watch, you know, Blake post up from the three point line for the whole game? Not really. And a Jalil Okafor post hook is not as exciting to me as Christian would, like jumping on a trampoline and just obliterating everybody. It's more fun for me to watch, so I would have rather watched Christian. It might have resulted in one or two, maybe three, four more wins.

I don't think anything significant enough to affect the draft. And the draft really is a crapshoot anyway, like the lotteries, right? The Pelicans were, they got Zion, and I don't think that they were anywhere close to the worst team in the league that year. So that's how I feel about free agency.

Moves I liked, moves I didn't. And I do kind of question, is this a full-scale rebuild? Is it a retooling? What exactly are we doing? And what we saw on the court, the last game is probably the biggest question because I think it's a bit of an indictment of Troy if he really wants these young players to be developed. And yet he goes out and signs someone like Delon Wright because you have to know your coach. And you have to know that if you put Delon Wright within 100 meters of Little Caesar's Arena, you know, 100 miles of Little Caesar's arena, he's going to play. And he's going to play a lot.

when Dwayne Casey's your coach. So that's kind of been the story of Troy for me. Good moves, bad moves, and I'm willing to take them as they come and evaluate them on a one-by-one basis. But overall, I guess I'd lean more towards I like them so far, but I do question some of the moves. That's what I mean. I really quickly defend my Christian Wood stance.

Go for it. Remember when we first traded for Blake Griffin? Yeah. Yes, unfortunately, I do remember that day. I was at the first game. It was fun. It was fun. I remember exactly where I was, dude.

I wasn't very happy. Anyway. Actually, I think it would be more accurate to say that I was enraged. Yeah, I remember that too. One of the things that we said was it was a horrible fit, Drummond and Griffin, because they operate in the same space. Yep. It's not just the fact that he can space the floor.

It's the space that he's taking up is not the paint. Whereas with Plumley, he's not pulling anybody away from the paint. I was studying Bam at a Bios game because he doesn't have a jump shot. He's just a really, really athletic rim runner. But he spaces the floor with his passing. When he walks away from the basket, you have to keep a defender on him because he's a really good passer. And Miami cuts really hard.

They work really hard. So that's where he's lethal. And that's how he's able to pull guys out of the paint. Christian Wood does that. He's not the passer, obviously. But he's enough of a spacing threat that you're opening up the paint. It's wide open. And again, I don't think this was some genius tier move from Weaver where he was like, well, if I signed three traditional centers, we're going to be inherently worse because these guys are going to be, you know, operating inside the paint, taking up that space.

I'm just saying I think we would have been a lot better with Christian Wood. I think he makes us a lot more athletic. He's a much better fit next to Killian and Griffin because Griffin, I mean, I know he hasn't looked very good this year, but he still can post up. He's done that a little bit. Jeremy Grant has done it a little bit. I think Sadeek has even been attacking the Bainto a little bit. With Plumley there, that gets a lot harder because Plumley's defender is going to stay in the paint with him. So I know I'm a lot higher on Christian Wood than you guys, but I spent the whole summer

this extended off season just rewatching those last 10 games from Christian Wood because I was just so amazed by his game and how I feel like it's underrated. And I know that people are just going to say it's just because he's playing with James Harden in Houston, but he already dropped, what, 31 points? That's one point shy of his career high. And we didn't even run offense for him last year. This was just him creating for himself. So I'm really high on him.

There's players in the next year's draft that kind of look like him, and I'm high on that guy, too. And I hope that, I mean, as long as we're talking about Weaver, I hope Weaver understands the value of stretch fives, because I don't think, I don't think everybody realizes how how great that is for your team. So I think that's something he focuses on. Yeah, I think that that play,

I think that people are, that certainly general managers I think are fully aware of it. Like your best centers these days are guys who at the very least can create out of the dribble or preferably can shoot threes. And like you had Greg Popovich come out a couple years ago after the rules changes in 2018 and say basically

it's impossible to defend a defense that runs five shooters now. Just with freedom of motion plus the stretching. So about Christian Wood, I don't think that he's that much of a floor razor. That's my thing. I think he's a very good player. I agree to me. I think he's a ceiling razor. I don't think he's a floor. He was very much of a floor razor. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. But with respect to what you're saying about how it would have been easier for the rookies, I mean, that's a good thing, if it would have been easier for the rookies. It is not a good thing for Killian Hayes,

that, for example, that he's driving into inherently into double or triple coverage because every center he has on a team is going to, you know, any of the three of them is going to be hanging out in the paint. I mean, that's not a good thing. It's not a good thing for Sadiq Bay if he wants to drive into the paints and he's got Mason Plumbley there and it's harder for the end of the basket. It's not good for Josh Jackson. It's not good for any of them. It's not good for any of them that they're going to, you want these guys to succeed and you want them more, you know, yes, I agree that losing is good. And I'm going to say it again, I think that business would have lost a ton of games anyway. I agree with Dante. Maybe Christian

would add four wins top. You add four wins to a team. You're a fantastic player. You know, that's, yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that that's a player who's, who's the bottom of the lottery. But the big difference. What? The bottom of the lottery, no, I don't think that doesn't make it. I mean, as long as you're one of the shirt, we know that, you know, if you're the last team, if you're the first place, you know, the lowest, you can get as five. That's nice. Yeah. But, but when you, when you look, you have to look, I think, at this year as well, and say, well, you're trying to develop your young players this year. And it doesn't behoved the Pistons to be like right now yeah it's it's harder for bay it's it's a lot harder for

killian hayes it's going to be it's going to be harder for josh jackson it'll be harder for second it'd be harder for everybody because the Pistons can't run a modern offense now part of that is griffin and it's somewhat less so but still somewhat rose when he's on the floor but part of it is that the team the roster is a mess and part of it is that yeah modern offenses you do have spacing at all five positions and we've are absolutely insured and i don't think that i think that he just personally i'm i'm kind of concerned he just doesn't get it that just kind of concern that he just doesn't get it, that spacing it to five is important,

and that offense is the priority in today's NBA, and that that's, you know, solid 60, 65% of the game is winning on offense and not defense. You know, yeah, you have to, you have to play your defense if you want to win championship, but it's very, very important, most important to be a, you know, an elite offensive team. And, you know, and for people who want to point in Miami and say, well, they were great on defense.

Miami was, in terms of true shooting percentage, if I remember incorrectly, the most efficient team in the league during the regular season. So, and Spolstra is just an amazing coach. So, yeah, I mean, I would trade better development for the rookies for three or four more wins. Absolutely. Yeah, that is, there's no question in my mind about that because I would say particularly with respect to Killian Hayes, I mean, it's a terrible situation.

And yeah, you do want to give him a good role man to work with, and Plumley is not that guy. You know, they'll say, again, having Griffin on the floor is not helpful to him either. I don't think it's helpful to any of the rookies because he's just going to hog you to What I said about Griffin, I think this is the year. I don't know if he said on the podcast, but what he's going to do if he's here, he is going to suck usage, and he is going to make the team play absolutely around him.

And because that's the only way he can play is you give Griffin the ball and he either drives the basket with it, which you can't do right now, apparently. Or he goes to work in the post or he shoots a pull-up three. And it's like, okay, that's fine. It's not necessarily ideal even if you're a contender because you want to run an offense. but that's what Griffin is going to do on a rebuilding team, and it's bad for everybody. It's even worse if he helps you win games.

So, yeah, I would take Christian Wood in this situation absolutely, you know, 100 times out of 100. You know, yeah, if he wins you three or four more games, you know, maybe you come to regret that later on, but I don't think that's a bad thing. And like Dante said, it doesn't more enjoyable to watch. It's like with a team right now, they're not capable of running a modern offense. And after sort of tasting that, you know, you've opened Pandora's box,

for Pistons fans, certainly for me after finally getting rid of, you know, you got rid of, you don't have Drummond anymore, you have Wood, you're able to run a modern offense, and the Pistons are terrible, but it is 10 times more enjoyable to watch. Yep. So, yeah, now when it comes to Wood himself,

and we'll just go over this right now, as we're going to talk about this at the end, we'll just talk about it right now. So there's the question of would, Christian Wood, have remained in Detroit. And I think the answer is yes. We look at the evidence. We have James,

Edwards, one of the Detroit B-Wriders, who of course has access to sources within the organization, who said that very clearly after Weaver was signed for roughly $14 million per year, average annual salary, I think, was 13.66 million dollars per year. That the Pistons just weren't willing to go that high. Like Weaver had said before earlier in the offseason that he really, Christian Wood was quote-unquote a priority, but that he had a figure in mind. And of course, it's not at all, you know, we all know. It's absolutely not at all out of the ordinary for a GM to say one thing

and do something entirely different anyway. So we can call Christian Wood a priority. He may not have been a priority for Weaver in the first place. But James Edwards says that said that the Pistons, aka Weaver, was just not willing to go that high and that he preferred to spend more money on Jeremy Grant instead. And also apparently Mason Plumley. so and stretch you know about four million dollars a salary for the next three years and three million for the next two after that so we have that we have christian wood who openly said

no it is not true that i was unwilling to stay in detroit and number three we have absolutely and utterly no news of any kind not even a smid to the effect that wood just wasn't willing to stay in detroit and that's the sort of thing that comes out i mean you might say right you know i have seeing people say, oh, well, this is the kind of thing that he's not going to say, and the organization is not going to want to get out. And it's like, it doesn't work this way. Things leak. You know, you hear about this stuff.

It's pretty basic. Guy didn't want to stay in Detroit. So now he's gone. And I think all we have on the other side of the equation is a couple of, you know, vague Instagram comments he made months ago. So, yeah, I think the guy would have stayed in Detroit, absolutely. Do you have to maybe pay him a little bit more than you, than Houston did? Maybe.

Maybe not. I'd absolutely give him $16 million dollars instead of paying Jeremy Graham. I'd give him $20 million instead of paying Jeremy Grant. I would have to. I think it makes sense. No, I agree. Mike, if I could just jump on that too. Absolutely.

Just a really quick backpedal to what Tommy said. Tommy, I agree. Like literally every single thing that you said about Christian Wood, I agree with. I don't think you're higher on him than, oh, I can't speak for Mike, but I don't think you're higher on him than I am. I think we're both equally high on the quality of player he is. the only thing I think we disagree about is what that would mean for the rebuild as a whole. You have no idea which way those ping pong balls are going to bounce, right, for the lottery.

So at most, I think Christian Wood raises your ceiling at most like five wins. And does that make a gigantic difference in, you know, how the lottery goes? Maybe, maybe not. But like Mike said, I would take that for the better development of our players because I can't imagine Killian Hayes would have, you know, a worse time playing with Christian Wood than he would with Mason Plumley. um so that's kind of the thing that i dislike the most about what troy weaver's done so far i wish christian was here um you know you saw him be the focal point last year and we were losing at a incredible rate so i don't think his mere presence kind of amounts to all these wins so i wish that he was here um and like mike said there's absolutely no evidence that he wouldn't have stayed

other than like what two two instagram comments yeah they were vague too i mean it's I always said was number one, I want to win. Where should I go next year, right? Number two, where should I go next? Yeah, and Detroit is a place that you can go. So, you know what I mean? That doesn't even preclude Detroit from being in the conversation. So I would absolutely rather have Christian Wood on this team just for my own sanity and

for player development. And, you know, I understand that he's not fresh out of college, but he's, I think he's, he's only 25, right? Turning 26. So that's the kind of guy, clearly that Troy, because Jeremy Grant is, the exact same age. That's the kind of guy that you wouldn't mind committing long-term money to because when the team is ready to compete, he's not necessarily out of his prime yet. Or you trade him. Or you trade him. Absolutely. Or you trade them. Well, I guess we did, right?

Like, wasn't the- Yeah, it was a sign in trade. But I mean, if you have a guy who's coming out and he's going at the level of the top 10 center, then, you know, and top 10 center isn't a big deal. I mean, they're only like, you know, maybe five or six really elite centers in the league. Yeah, I would argue. But if you're at top cent center, this is a guy you can trade for at the very least, maybe like a mid-first round pick. He's in a long-term contract. Instead of, instead of, you know, maybe more. You know, if he's playing at a higher level, maybe more.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But I don't think he raises your wind ceiling so significantly that it wasn't worth having him on this team. I think he can raise maybe the wind ceiling on a good team, but I don't think he's going to really raise the winds floor on a bad team. I'm sorry, I misspoke the floor. Absolutely. Because like I said, he was the, he was commander-in-chief at the, what, the last 16 and 17 games of the season last year.

And it didn't matter. We were still losing. Like, we were still losing. So, like, I want him here so I can have fun watching him done. And I want him here because I think Killian Hayes would benefit from it. But at the end of the day, he's not. And every time I go look at the box score for the Houston game, it is like you've twisted the knife a little bit more.

It hurts. It hurts, man. Yeah. So there's the issue also that if what James Edwards said was true, and I think I have no reason to believe it's not true. I mean, nothing's come out to contradict it. And again, this is, you know, he's got sources within the organization. It seemed like a pretty cut and dry thing. That even if he were willing to stay in Detroit and Houston, you know, even if, even if he had said, for example, well, just Matt Houston's offer, weaver would have said no, because

Weaver didn't want to go that high for wood. He wanted grant instead. So I think this was just the situation. I think Weaver made a lot of mistakes. And I think this was just another one of them. Like you, for example, like you guys, I think are higher on it than I am. If I look at the things I like that he did in free agency. It's basically you got Josh Jackson. Like I said, that's a movie make. You take absolutely as a rebuilding team. You take a chance on

untapped, underdeveloped, underappreciated talent. That was a good signing. Even if it doesn't work out, that was a good signing. So, I don't like, I don't really pretty much like anything else that he did. I think that Plumley was, I mean, the only thing, what I've said before, I think on the last episode is that

the best thing you can say about this was that it wasn't a terrible offseason. I think, I think I would say that it was a bad off season. About Plumley, it's like, yeah, why would you sign this guy for $25 million? And he just doesn't really provide all that much. And the only thing, the only saving grace of that contract is that it's not for even more money. Joliel Ocalfour is useless. I mean, sure, it's a minimum contract, but you've got a guy who is what he is in college,

a guy who can score well in the paint on ball-stopping offense. Not super well, but well enough. He's not a good creator. He's well enough. That's his only skill, you know? He's a terrible defender. He's a bad passer, and he can't stretch the floor. He's a decent role man, but nothing special.

He can't play above the rim. You know, why is he here? And Wayne Ellington, sure, he's yet another veteran presence. I mean, I guess that's nice. If he doesn't play, fine. But, you know, it just goes on an on-stretching salary in year one of a rebuild, getting rid of all of the calf flexibility that can be used toward purposes conducive to a rebuild acquiring assets.

And then it comes to Jeremy Grant, who is the guy that we got instead of Christian would. And I don't see the upside there for the pistons. It's like, you bring him in, sure, he's a good defender. Sure, he's a good three-point shooter. And Denver is a good three-and-diam finish player, though the narrative that he walked down the likes of Kauai and LeBron and so on, and the playoffs is not true. They still played well against him. They just didn't go supernova. They still scored on high volume with quite good efficiency. And Donovan Mitchell torched him. It was actually Gary Harris in the last two games of, of the series against Utah who came in and he caused problems for Donovan Mitchell.

And Grant, how well he did on offense, just dependent on how well he was shooting his threes that were created for him by others. The Denver's third most important offensive player was Michael Porter Jr., who scored five less minutes in 200 less points than Jeremy Grant in 200 less minutes, but creating a lot more of his own offense. Monte Morris scored 50, I think 25 or some amount of points less in 250 less minutes. He created a great deal more of his own offense for others, as well as himself. So Grant's just nothing special. You know, he's a high level three and D

and finished player who, and Troy Weaver brought him here why so that he could improve himself on offense. It's like, okay, well, depending on how you look at it with the stretch salary, if you want to attribute it to Grant because, you know, he was, he was the majority of the expenditure between him and Plumley, then you're paying him $24 million a year, more or less. That's out of that. Or you're paying Plumlee $12 million a year. Or you're paying Plumlee 10 and Grant 22, whatever. I mean, that's a lot of money. But what's the upside for the Pistons?

Grant comes in and you let him suck usage to work on his own offense. So you have three guys. You know, you have Rose, who's all but one-on-one. You have Griffin's all about one-on-one, and I guess now Grant, too. If he's sucking up more than 30 minutes a game, almost certainly, that at a position at which four of the team, six important young players play. And the potential benefit for the Pistons, oh, and, you know, Andy is sucking up all that cap space. And the potential benefit for the Pistons is what?

you know, what, what is it? Yeah. Do you guys have any thoughts on that? I mean, what is the potential benefit for the Pistons if he develops into a much better player, you know, into a better offensive creator? What's the benefit for the Pistons? And what's the benefit, you know, that could possibly justify the multitude, multiple costs of bringing him in?

A trade, I guess. I think that's the only thing is that, you know, you could flip them probably to a contender. Yeah, but we know that Weaver really likes the guy. What do you think the chances are that he actually trades Grant if he is playing that well? Well, judging by the whole, you know, Arndelam, Derek Rose thing, the piston seemed pretty loyal to the, like, one of the ways they're getting these guys to come is through these promises, right? So with Rose, it's like, hey, you know, you'll get a prominent role, like six man of the year type guy. And we're not just going to deal you without your permission. So now that you just said that, you're probably right.

I don't think Grant is going anywhere anytime soon. So the return versus the various costs that, you know, it takes to keep up. him here. Not looking great. I guess I can't think of one then. If we're not trading them, there's nothing. I think, yeah, I think we've seen in this offseason that Weaver also just really like certain types of players. And I think Grant is here in part. And he was clearly the, you know, the plum target in the offseason for it for Weaver. And I think that now that he's here, unless he has to be traded, I don't think Weaver will trade him from he's playing well. And it's like the Pistons aren't trying to win games right now. They probably won't be trying to win games

next season. What he provides will not really be of substance. If he wins games, it's not a good thing. And let's say he improves. He came here to bet on himself. He came here to bet on himself that, you know, okay, I can, you know, partially perhaps just because he wanted to have a larger role, partly to bet on himself. So, you know, at the age of 29 when he's going to, for his big contract, maybe he can get more money than he would get otherwise. And how the hell does that benefit the Pistons? It doesn't. I mean, yeah, maybe he resigns with the Pistons, but you're going to have to bid against other teams for him. Maybe he leaves. And if you do keep him, okay, well, you had his bird rights, yay, you know, that's basically all you've gotten out of the situation. You know,

maybe, maybe if you're trying to compete the year before, maybe if something really changes, that's different. But, you know, that, yeah, it's, I don't see, I mean, Tommy, do you see the, you know, the potential, you know, benefit on the piston side of the equation for all that they spent? I think we're thinking about this differently than we were does. We're thinking about this and like, well, I mean, ideally, if we were going to keep Christian Wood, like I spent the whole summer talking about we need to keep Christian Wood, we need to keep this modern offense going. And now I just said that, oh, I think it'll result in more games.

Maybe it's not the worst thing that he's not here right now. I think ideally you would have kept Christian Wood and just signed a bunch of role players, you just run picking rolls with Killian or Halliburton, ideally. And then you kick out to guys on the perimeter, and that's how you play the season. You probably don't win that many games. but it seems like Weaver was intent on winning games, and even more than that, signing guys that he knows are high character. I don't think it boils down to anything more than that.

Like everybody he signed with the exception of what, maybe Jackson and Okafore on cheap deals, were guys that he's known for a long time or guys that have this reputation as being great locker room guys, guys that are going to come in and establish a culture of hard work and defense. I think I told you earlier about how. how Edward, yeah, James Edward said, like, Weaver wants to establish this defensive culture. He doesn't want to tank like the Knicks or pretty much every other tanking team

where it's just, you know, play like garbage and acquire draft capital. And then, you know, you hope you get a few slam dunks in the draft. Also, then you forgot focus on development, which is going to be harder with the veterans Weaver signed. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, I mean, that's why I wanted to wait and see because it looks like Casey did get it talking to and now maybe we'll see a lot more rest days from Griffin and Rose. That's still

not ideal, but you can't really move Griffin's contract anyway. No, I really do think. I think that's the priority for Weaver bringing guys who are going to establish this culture and so that you can make the most of the guys that you bring in in the next few years. And whether you're not, you agree with that being the priority. I mean, that's what he's going for. I think. That's pretty clear to me. I would have done it a different way, but Weaver has access to more. interpersonal stuff than we see. Sure, but is it a good plan? That's the question.

That is his plan. Is it a good plan? I think he might be a little bit excessively focused on culture and defense. My question, my- What you said? Yeah, it's delicate balance, exactly. And my concern about seeing what Weaver has done is that you have a guy with a strong vision that he's going to pursue.

And is that vision wise? And is he a guy who is just an excellent example of the Peter Principal? Peter Principal says that everybody will be promoted, eventually promoted past their level of capability. You know, it's like, for example, Michael Scott in the office is a great example of this guy who was a, if you watch the show, you see, it was a fantastic salesman and a horrible manager. So with Troy Weaver, was he a guy who was very good in certain roles in Oklahoma City as an assistant GM, but was much better off, was much, much better off ultimately not being in charge and reporting to a competent person above him. that that's my concern you know and i think he is excessively focused on culture i think that a lot of what he did didn't make sense and i'm concerned that he might not be entirely competent

well i guess we'll find out i i totally agree with you mike like uh you saw the exact same thing with uh the lion's last regime right you've got guys with a vision sure is the vision good right because realistically it it doesn't take anything special to stick to your uh your initial plan it's not that hard to come up with a plan. And sticking to it, I guess, is really not that hard either. It just depends on if the plan is good or not. With the lions, it was not. And then unfortunately, I watch them lose 47 to 7, and then I turn on the Pistons game. And I'm left to question what our plan is to because really like Casey and Weaver have got to get on the same page here. Because if the plan is to win games, you're not doing a good job at that. If the plan is to develop your young players,

so far you're not doing a good job at that. I don't think. Not with. in-game regular season reps. So what is the plan? And once we've identified it, is it good? And those are the questions that are probably going to define the next five years, realistically. So I'm at the precipice right now. And let's hope it kind of teeters were the opposite to what the lions did,

because I can't do it. I can't deal with you too soon. Yeah. Yeah, like you've got, you've got Eisenman in Detroit who, is being given the space and absolutely is a competent GM. He built that Tampa Bay Championship team. They've been one of the best teams in the NHL in a long time, thanks to his stewardship.

So, yeah, if you talk about a vision, I'm not working out, look at Stan Van Gundy. Stan Van Gundy's vision was Andre Drummond as a centerpiece of his team. It's like, sorry, Stan, but that was your vision. No matter what you did, it wasn't going to work. Andre Drummond's a traditional center in a league that's evolving toward spacing and offensive creation, who is terrible on offense,

it's a terrible mentality, and so on and so forth, is not going to be the centerpiece of a successful team. Neither is a duo of Ritee Jackson and Andre Drummond, you know, running a zillion pick and rolls at slow pace, and, you know, neither of whom have a shred of leadership among them and so on and so forth. It's like you said, having a vision doesn't mean it's going to succeed. No, it doesn't.

I think Weaver's vision is very questionable. And I like what you said about, you know, about Delon Wright and Casey. It's like, yeah, I kind of shuddered when I saw that trade because I'm like, Casey's going to play him 20 plus minutes no matter what happens. I was furious when I saw it because to me, I'm not seeing Delon Wright. I'm just seeing this is a placeholder and this is an obstacle for players that I want to see getting actual meaning. I just knew. As soon as I saw that Delon Wright was on the team, it ruined my day. It's a Dwayne Casey favorite too. Sure, it is. Yeah. And this is going to, this is going to

drastically impact the rotations. I know it. And, you know, 40, whatever minutes in a game that went to double overtime. And what have you done? What have you done for the betterment of this organization with that guy playing those minutes? Certainly nothing. Yeah.

Also, yeah. Yeah. You've done nothing. And it's like, it's like also you bring in writing grants. You're almost guaranteed, you know, with Casey to have four veterans in the starting lineup. Sure. And that's an insane situation.

There's only so minutes to go around. and every minute that's going to Jeremy Grant that's going to Delon Wright, that's going to Mason Plumley, are minutes that are not going to the guys that you've invested your future in at those positions. They're not. So you're just left to wonder, is this a Detroit Lions situation? Is this a Red Wing situation? I don't know. Because, yeah, like we said, it's one thing to have a strong vision.

It's another thing to have that vision work relative to the rest of the league, right? Do you have a better vision than the other 29 general managers? because the lions did not. The Red Wings, in my opinion, do. And I'm a Leafs fan. So I got the misfortune of the one Detroit sports team that succeeded in my lifetime. I was not a fan of. And I liken the Leafs to the 76ers where you've got these great young pieces,

but you've not quite been able to put them together for a championship, maybe due to fit, maybe due to character, I don't know. But the point is, it's like you said, the Red Wings are headed in the right direction. In my opinion, the Tigers are headed in the right direction, too. with the strong farm team. I don't know about the Pistons, and it's going to remain to be seen. And Tommy, I like your optimism.

I know you had mentioned earlier. It's kind of going to depend on what they do moving forward, because, like you said, now Blake and Rose are out tonight. So clearly we're going to have to see more of the young guys just out of necessity. So I'm hoping that it changes throughout the season. I don't know. Absolutely agree. Yeah, I'm, yeah, we're, for unfortunately,

not actually get a chance to talk about, about the young guys since we're pretty much running overtime here. It's probably best for us to leave that for the next episode because they're going to actually get some playing time tonight. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, me too. So, yeah, so we'll just end this episode with what we'll be doing probably going forward pretty regularly, what we'll call Blake Griffin Trade Value Watch. Now, of course, it'd be great to see Blake Griffin Tray to this season.

That's going to depend on him playing very well. You look at Blake, here's his issue. He's paid an enormous amount of money. He's injury prone. And just based on the way he plays, it's very unlikely that an unic contender, he's going to, his fit into the system is going to produce anything, you know, it's going to produce a value commensure with his cap hit. So the guy's got to play very well if the Pistons want really an even shot of trading him. There's also the complications about matching salaries and whatnot. But we'll just look at how well Blake Griffin is playing.

The answer right now is not well. Do not look at his last game or he's shooting a bunch of pull-off threes on high percentage and think that it's him playing well. He's not going to hit those on high percentage every game. He has looked, he has been unable to drive to the basket. he has looked very bad in the post where he's just been twirling and dipping and throwing up bad shots. And these are against bad teams. And Griffin has legitimately had a year, a year to recover. So it's entirely, unfortunately, it is entirely possible that the two knee surgeries he has had since he blessed played a healthy game with the pistons,

which were number three and number four on that particular knee, have lowered a ceiling further. So unless the guy picks up his play significantly, he's going nowhere. So in any event, that'll be it for today's episode. Thank you, Dante for coming. Hope to have you gotten back here soon. And, yeah, as always, I want to thank you all for listening, and we'll see you next time.