Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 33: Pistons Tankathon

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

This episode speaks on the teams that could conceivably beat out the Pistons for the league's top spot in the draft lottery standings, discusses how teams have adapted to better defend Blake Griffin and Wayne Ellington, and ends with a brief talk on Jerami Grant's case for all-stardom.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Drive into the Basket. I am Mike. I am here with Dante and Tommy. And today we are going to launch right into talking about the other teams around the Pistons and the standings, those teams that might be competing with Pistons for worst record in the league. Just to note, we're recording this on Saturday the 6th. So just the day after the Pistons lost to the Phoenix Suns. So, needless to say, is draft lottery. The lower you are to a point, the higher chance you have at the first overall pick. Now, the bottom three teams have an identical shot at the number one overall pick. That's due to lottery reform. The process sixers were formulated, you know, were specifically constructed to be as bad as possible because back then, if you were the worst team, you got the highest odds.

That said, there are still benefits to being the worst team. If you are the worst team in the league, then the lowest you, can pick. Lowest, lowest, lowest is fifth. If you're the second, worst, the lowest you can pick is sixth and so on. Obviously, you don't want to get the number on and be the worst team in the league and get the fifth pick. But, you know, you'd like to, you know, it's great if that's the worst you're going to get.

It's a nice to have that leeway. So, let's just launch right into it. So first team to talk about is the, we're going through this in no particular order. And there are not actually very many this year, because. They're less outright bad tanking teams right now than there have been in recent memory. Number one is the Wizards. So we're just going to go through and rank a certain criteria, just on a skill of 1 to 10. It's going to talk about the roster, coaching, potential for improvement, strength, the schedule, some X factors and how likely they are to finish beyond the best.

And so when it comes to the Wizards roster, I'd rank them around 5 out of 10. you're ostensibly not awful between Beale, Westbrook, Bretons, and Thomas Bryant, who is now out. Otherwise, I would rank the roster on six out of ten. I thought that they were going to be a playoff team, like a probably eight seed, playoff team, eight, seven seed prior to the season, you know, if ever be played to decent potential. They were always going to be a defensive train wreck, but maybe they could have been enough on offense. But at this point, yeah, you've got a five at a ten roster over there. coaching two out of ten

Scott Brooks is not boiling Jim Boyland bad but he's terrible super non-adaptive really simple-minded calls the same plays he called in Oklahoma City and he doesn't coach in Oklahoma City in six years is not suited to coach a team that you know that's got issues you know with that's

you know basically true sure if you want to throw him on a team with a ton of talent or even a good amount of talent that can mask some of his issues but, you know, especially when it comes to making an offense work with Westbrook, you know, that takes them doing. How I'd rank their potential for improvement. I'd give that seven out of ten. I don't think very highly of Westbrook, but, you know, he's been absolutely terrible

by his standards. I think you put Westbrook on the court. It's an opportunity cost from the beginning because he's not going to play within the bounds of a modern offense. He's got to play his way. But, I mean, he's just been awful. You can always expect, you know, some physical regression is inevitable with Westbrook, with anybody, but particularly with Westbrook,

because, you know, mostly because not just physical regression, it's going to have a larger impact on his game than will for the average player because he's so dependent upon getting into the basket. He's a bad shooter. He's just got to get, he's got to penetrate to do what he can do, and he's not been able to do that. And I don't think, I don't think it's all been physical regression because, you know, beat him look like this last season.

I think he just maybe a lot of guys have been slow starters this year after really unprecedented offseason. And I think he just may be an extreme example of that. So I think he'll improve to some degree. Davis Bretons has been horrible. He was one of the best perimeter shooters in the league last season. He was a pivot of that offense. He's just been awful, I think highly unlikely that last.

Isch Smith has been awful from the floor, even by his own standards. He's generally awful from the floor. And, you know, probably improved to a degree. Troy Brown, whose good last year hasn't played much. So I think they actually have a significant amount of room to improve. I don't think that they will be a playoff team at this point. I think they could improve. They could finish them like the 10th seed in the east.

Strength of schedule so far has been easy. So that's going to get more difficult. If we're talking X factors, Westbrook, of course, I think Westbrook will improve. And Bertons will improve. So I'd say their chances of finishing beyond the pistons are pretty low. They'll have a harder schedule, but they've just got a great deal more room to improve. Right now, they are just very slightly ahead of the pistons in the schedule. the Pistons have a lower win percentage.

They played three more games, though, than the Wizards. So, yeah, what do you guys think about the Wizards and how they're looking this season and where they might finish? I would agree with you that they definitely have pretty likely odds to improve. If you're talking about just talent by itself, I think, you know, if we want to compare it to the Pistons, Beale himself kind of blows all the talent that we've got right out of the water. Like Beale's incredible.

Westbrook, yeah, I would. He has not been good, but I'd expect him to, I don't know if return to form is the right term, but I'd expect him to improve for sure. And then Bertons has been very good every time he's played the Pistons. So obviously I'm not a huge Wizards basketball guy, so it's surprised me that he struggled as much as he has.

But I could see him improving too. So as far as the Wizards are concerned, I don't think they're much of a threat for the worst record in the NBA. Yeah, I would expect them to get better. They had some guys with like key injuries in terms of key injuries early on. Ish Smith just returned, Denny of Dia returned, and he was looking pretty good in preseason. And I think the biggest issue for them is coaching. They need to get rid of Scott Brooks.

All they do is ISO. It's just isolation play after isolation play. And Brooks and Westbrook together is a terrible combination because it seems like they don't coach shot selection. So Westbrook is taking like long isolation, like ISO jumpers like with a foot on the line or like two feet inside the three-point line. It's just horribly ugly basketball. And even Beal's heroic efforts, you know, it's just not enough. They just need to play more as a team. And I think with some spacing and better ball movement, you see it happen a lot more with Ish Smith, who's just really good at generating offense and getting people moving. That's really what you need to see more of. Scott Brooks is just

a terrible coach. They need to get rid of him. Yeah, at Bradley Beal, I think what, he had 10 straight 40-point games that his team lost. Yeah. I mean, that is sad, you know, especially for a guy who, you know, by the standards of today's stars in the NBA has been very loyal to the Wizards. I mean, a lot of guys, I don't like that this is the case in the NBA now, that a lot of guys just ask out if they don't like the situation. So I don't know if I should say, you know, give really give kudos to Bradley Biel for not

doing that. But yeah, that must be pretty deflating. The guy has been excellent. offense. Certainly excellent. As for Westbrook, yeah, I mean, he's taking a lot of, a lot of ISO jumpers and parts just because he can't penetrate anymore. And realistically, if you're Westbrook, pass the ball, you're a terrible mid-range shooter. You're an awful three-point shooter, too. You're bad three-point shooter. But, you know, efficiency, in terms of efficiency, I mean, there are very few guys who should be taking ISO-poet mid-range jumpers on any sort of volume.

but yeah, I think, yeah, I agree with you guys, their chances of finishing below the pistons. Unless Beale gets injured, I would stare very low. So move on next to the other great threat, so to speak, and I would rate as the team most likely to finish below the pistons. That is the Minnesota Timberwolves. So their roster, I would rate at a three out of ten. Carl Anthony Towns, of course, is one of the best offensive centers in the league. Now, he's kind of met defensively. He's made some improvements, but, you know, you compare to two of the other, you know, premier centers in the league.

Well, I guess Davis is, you know, taking pains to take himself out of the center discussion. But you look at, and then you look at like Embed, for example, which is excellent on both ends. But, you know, Towns fantastic offensive player. But, you know, for the most part, unless you're in a Kohliyok, you're not going to carry a team from center. Or Joel NB., to a lesser extent. You're not going to carry a team from center in today's league. and Carolina County Towns can't do that. But still an impact player.

DeAngelo Russell, you know, it should be capable, you know, upper 15 point guard. If we're looking based on, you know, what we saw last season this season before. It's never going to be a star point guard, but, you know, maybe in the top one third. He's been terrible. I mean, that the wolves who are a bad team

have been colossally worse when he's been on the floor. And then there is Malik Beasley, who's been a decent secondary. score. He scored pretty efficiently. And beyond that, really, Ricky Rubio, not great, but should be reliable enough. After that, the roster really ends. There are no good forwards in the roster. There are very few good defenders in the roster. Like, Jared Culver is a good defender, still struggles on offense. Anthony Edwards has been horribly inefficient as he's shown flashes. Rubio himself has been dreadful. But the fact is, they just don't have very many good players, you know, who have the potential to

be good on the roster this season. Coaching, I'd give generously, give a four out of ten. Saunders isn't awful, but he's bad, certainly bad. It's particularly important. I'd say to have innovative coaching for a roster that is mismatched, as mismatched as this one. I mean, I really look at this roster, and it's the only one for me, for me to compare us with the roster of the 2018-2019 Pistons is just horribly mismatched. Probably not as bad as that one, because that one was pretty much weak everywhere. Like you had Blake Griffin, and And then what? Aside from that, I mean, that roster, yeah, that roster just, I mean, just in terms of accoutrements necessary for the modern NBA was completely lacking.

And that this one is just lacking in a different way. But, yeah, their strength of schedule around four out of ten hasn't been super easy, hasn't been super hard. The RACs factor, I'd say, would be Anthony Edwards. Like, but actually, we'll talk about that after connection for improvement. So Kat will provide improvement. Carl Anthony Towns. He has barely played, thanks to COVID. But he needs help.

He is not going to carry the team from center. Russell will, I would imagine, improve, especially when he can play with towns consistently. Rubio really ought to improve. The guy's a pretty reliable veteran who's just been awful. Edwards has that potential. But is this going to be one of those lost rookie seasons for a very talented players, really going to pick it up in his sophomore season?

Or is he actually going to have the focus and then the wherewithal to improve this season? So, yeah, I put it. the potential for improvement in route six out of ten. That said, they're starting from a pretty low point. And yeah, that X factor Anthony Edwards, you know, if he can sum up pull it together the season, then that's a big deal for the wolves because the guy is talented. He's incredibly athletic and that would be helpful. Are they going to make the playoffs in any situation? No. No. I think the wizards, you know, I get to, boy, the wizards could play themselves in the 10th seed. I think the, the, the wolves unless they are likely, you know, unless they are lucky in

the draft lottery, you're going to surrender the sixth or seventh or eighth pick to the Warriors. So the chance to pinning him behind the Pistons, I would put it as moderate. If Kat comes back, if Carantany's Towns comes back, and I'll keep calling him as by his acronym. And Russell shows some improvement, then I don't think they're finishing beyond the Pistons. They've just, they, despite being incredibly mismatched in terms of roster and not any much talent, they're still ahead of the Pistons in that respect. They do have more talent than the Pistons for sure. They certainly do.

And a lot's going to hinge on Edwards, I would say. If he can take some big leap, then they're going to see some more wins than they've already got it. I'm a little – I'm kind of in the same boat with them as I am with the Wizards. I don't see them finishing behind the Pistons either. I just think over the course of a longer season, the team that has more pure talent is probably going to end up winning more games. and, you know, Carl Anthony Towns, yeah, not the best defender, but a very, very, very good player. And I don't expect him to carry them to the playoffs or anything like that, but I do expect him to kind of ensure that they're not finishing below the pistons either.

I remember seeing a post a few weeks ago after Carl Anthony Town, because he started this year, and then, of course, he's out due to COVID. I think he's the biggest factor because the post was something like, I don't want to misquote the records because it was just like I saw it a few weeks ago. But the wolves were close to 500 with Carl Anthony Towns, and then without him, they were like one in six. And this was a little while ago. So he's the biggest difference. They just play significantly better. And then as far as Edwards goes, this post is from a few days ago, but over his last five at one point, he was averaging 19 points on 43, 47, and 94 shooting. That's unsustainable. But I think we are starting to see that jump from him. I think he is

getting a little bit more aggressive in terms of attacking the basket. That's what you need from him. He's an athletic freak, and I think he was just settling for too many threes. So at this point, I think it's just important that he gets to the basking, especially when they play with Carl Anthony Towns, who was a floor spacing center. That's a really good combination. I really like the fit there, because if Cat is not in the lane, that opens it up for Edwards to attack. That becomes a much more deadly team. I think Malik Beasley has been playing really well, too. So I think the biggest thing is Carl Anthony Town is coming back, but I think they have the tools to, you know, make a bit of a leap once they have that key key piece.

Yeah, they can make that leap up to, you know, maybe number 12 in the West. That'd be a big deal. I don't care where they end up just as long as they put some distance between us and them. What they are playing for now is to not surrender, not be humiliated and surrender a super high pick to the Warriors. That's basically what they're playing for now. So they have actually had Nas Reid has been doing a decent job of spacing the floor. D.C. actually shot upwards of 41%.

Only had about three attempts per game, but he's no Carl Anthony Towns. Obviously, that's really beyond dispute. And he's only been playing about 22 minutes a game, too. So, yeah, I think that they are not nearly as bad of a team as the business. I think that they will finish out of the distance probably, considerably. So the only other team I'd look at is the Chicago Bulls. And I don't think the bulls are necessarily really much of a threat at all. But they're the only way of the team, really I think even falls into the category. So roster over there, I'd rate us five out,

five out of ten. Levine's actually very good scoring talent. He's having a great season, scoring about 25 points per game on fantastic efficiency. The efficiency is not going to last, but he's a good creator. Definitely not a good defender. But a very good creator. Markinen's having a big comeback season after, you know, eating garbage under Jim Boylan for reasons nobody could understand. Kobe White's pretty good. He's still got potential.

Otto Porter is still auto Porter, which means he's a good shooter. Patrick Williams has been good for a rookie. The Bullets have a relatively weak bench. They've got weak defense. That just is what it is. And they don't have really much in the way of good scoring beyond, you know, creating offense beyond Levine. coaching again squarely average five to ten billy dominant is absolutely nothing special

it's just nothing special strength the schedule right in the middle uh as as good as i get really all i can identify as an x-factor is their defense which has been horrible maybe they can improve upon that a bit the fact is they don't have very many good defenders in the roster and they've got uh you know they've they've got between you know levin in particular but others as well I mean, they just don't have any strong defenders. I'd rate their chances of finishing behind the Pistons pretty well. They're just likely to remain mediocre. They may well end up being the, you know, probably like the 12th or 13th best team in the conference.

You know, this is, I can declare pretty confidently not going to be a playoff team. Any thoughts about the Bulls? No, no thoughts about the Bulls? No, I could. I was waiting for Tommy to jump in, but no. I really only watch the Bulls just for like Pat Williams, and he's just making steady improvements there. I mean, their defense is pretty terrible with Wendell Carter Jr.

Yeah, I don't think. I just, I don't think the Bulls necessarily belong in the conversation of, like, worst team in the NBA. Like, I think they're below average, mediocre at best. But I really don't see a world in which they're finishing below the Pistons. So, I mean, yeah, Zach Levine is a lot of fun to watch. Markinen improving. Pat Williams, I was able to, well, not able to, but I looked into him a lot in college

with all the rumors that the Pistons were interested in him. And I'm happy to see him having some success. But yeah, maybe if that defense can improve, they're going to win a few more. But I definitely don't see them finishing below the Pistons either. And I feel like I keep saying that for all these teams. And I guess that kind of, you know, lends itself to the idea that the Pistons are really, really bad. Yeah, they are. I mean, here's the thing.

You look at the standings right now. I mean, there are a bunch of teams who could fall. There are bunch of teams who can improve. It's just the pistons are particularly bad. And unless something substantively changes, I mean, yeah, like you look at the heat and the heat have only eight wins. I don't think any of us think that's going to last. No. The Mavericks have only nine wins.

I don't think any of us think that's going to last. The magic are, you know, not great by any means. And they could be one of the lower finishes in the conference. They've had very bad injury luck. Who knows about the thunder? The pelicans are coached by Stan Van Gogh. Undy, anything could happen over there. Well, anything not being good things, but bad things can definitely happen.

You know, the honorable mention I'd give is to the Knicks who have just benefited from this hilarious run of luck in which their opponents have shot a horrific percentage on wide open threes. But, you know, and the cavaliers of play to above expectations, led by Titan, all-time great Andre Drummond's. That is a joke. He has not been good. He is one of the league leaders in usage. And it's on his typical bad shot selection with his typical bad offensive touch based on his typical unflinching determination to be an offensive superstar. Yeah. His usage is higher than LeBron.

Yeah, I saw that. I think he's seventh in the league right now in usage, which is conical. It's absolutely hilarious, especially because Jared Allen is an objectively superior player. He's not as good of a rebounder, but who cares? I mean, in terms of the actual impact he has, he is drastically superior. And I don't know why he's not starting right now. If I were them, I would consider just benching Drummond altogether and just playing an Alan McGee rotation. And some people might call that absurd.

But, I mean, it's like, the Drummond just comes with such a big, just such a big inherent opportunity cost, putting him on the floor. He's going to cause problems. So, in all but the rarest of occasions, I just think very poorly of him. That's just me. So the last team we should talk about is the Pistons themselves, actually, just for the sake of context. Now, here's how I'd rate the Pistons, okay? So their roster, I'd give a 2 out of 10. I would give it a 2 out of 10, but keeps it away from being a 1 out of 10 is Jeremy Grant.

You know, whatever you want to say about how Weaver did things this summer. Yeah, the Pistons would probably be a comically bad team without Jeremy Grant. I'm willing to accept that at this point. But part of it, I think, is the coaching. If you had a better coach and know Jeremy. Grant's, they would still be awful, but I don't think comically that. I mean, the Grants, the Pistons have been, whenever Grant isn't on the floor, the Pistons are an absolutely horrific team.

I think they're actually a slightly, they outscore their opponents very slightly while he's on the floor. When he's not on the floor, I think they are outscored by about 16 points per 100 possessions, which is, you know, it's pretty, pretty marked difference. We'll talk more about Grant in the context of All-Stardom later in this episode. So, yeah, Grant's the only good score, legitimately the only good score. Derek Rose, even, you know,

who has been an effective creator the last two seasons is really, is he's struggled so far. The team has a decent defense. And that's, you know, that's about all the good you can say about it at this point. The coaching, I would rate as Dwayne Casey out of 10. We have said enough about him.

Yeah. There's strength of schedule. On paper has been the most difficult in the NBA, just in terms of looking at opposite team records. I would rank it more around 7 out of 10. They have been very fortunate with respect to absences, key absences, players of the opposition. If you look at the Pistons, wins, they, you know, even in their losses, they've been fortunate with the absences. Certainly in their wins, they've been very fortunate with the absences. The Sixers with no MB, Embed is a top five player.

The Lakers with no Davis. Davis is a very, very good player. but I am forgetting somebody. I know that they beat the Celtics without Kemba. And the Sons were another one of their wins. Who was their last win? I know they have five wins. It's kind of bizarre that I am completely unable to remember it.

I don't remember their last one either. Yeah, I think the games are just kind of starting to blend together at this point. Yeah. But they've benefited from absences, nonetheless. Yeah, they have. Yeah, they're, oh, yeah, geez, I'm just missing on it. So we've got the Celtics, the suns, oh, the heat, right, the heat but no Butler. There you are.

That's what it was. Butler also one of the top 15 player in the league, without a doubt. So, yeah, even in their losses, they benefited from a lot of absences. So I wouldn't rate their strength of schedule quite as high, just on the basis of that. They've been very fortunate. potential for improvement. You know, it's been a lot of fun watching Isaiah Stewart improve. I don't think he really has the ceiling, certainly,

not in his rookie season to really make a huge difference. And it's like, you know, Sadieke Bay, I think, you know, I've always thought he's just, this is a guy who's going to be a high-quality role player. Josh Jackson, I don't think is consistent enough, and it's still a little too out of control for my liking to call him any sort of X factor. Yep. And so the Pistons chances of finishing behind the Pistons, I'd say, are 0%. And it's literally impossible. Yeah, it's impossible no matter which way you slice it. I just don't see another team with such a dearth of talent, unfortunately, or I guess fortunately,

depending on how you look at it. But aside from Grant, there are no good scores on the roster. Aside from, you know, Sadiq Bay, I guess you could say, or Svi when he's at his best, there's there's a lack of good role players because Ellington has just fallen off a cliff. And Blake Griffin, I mean, it's, I mean, we were just talking about it before we recorded. It's, it's bad. It's not like it's been okay and then gotten bad. It's been bad. And then it went to horrible.

So I honestly think he's actively hurting the team when he's out there too because he's so high usage and he just can't get it done. So this right now with the coaching, with the roster construction and with the ways that these players are playing. I feel like they're, I don't want to call it a lock because anything can happen, but this to me is the worst team in the NBA. Yeah. Yeah, no, and I know Tommy, you're very hopeful about this team and you think they, you hope that they make a big run of the playoffs, right?

Definitely, man. Sadiq Bay is going to start averaging 30 points. We finally saw Casey give him a little bit of help. So this is his big breakout. It's coming. It's over. It's over for the rest of the league now. No, it's done.

Yeah. They should call it. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we're approaching the Bay Coppocalypse, and that's hard to say. The Baypocalypse. No, I like it. I like that one.

That's a good thing. Thank you. I came, I just came up with it right now on the spot. It originated right here, right? Absolutely. Off the top. I love that. It is 10 seconds old.

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, it was nice to see Bay get a little bit of, you know, a little bit of more, more help from Casey's getting the balls. he's got the ball in some creative ways. His shot wasn't falling quite as efficiently as it was earlier in the season, but it's always nice, right? I mean, even if he misses a shot, none of us are going to be upset.

We just like to see him getting the usage, getting the experience, and the improvements are going to come with the experience. So if there was one positive we could derive from last night, other than, you know, Grant getting his 20 points. It was nice to see Sadiq a little more involved. Yeah, it's Stewart too. Stewart played a good game against the sun. Oh, and I don't know how I forgot about Stewart.

Stord is, well, I guess just because he's always a positive for me. Really, the main reasons to even watch the last few weeks have been Grant and Stewart because Grant has been a really good score and Stewart has been improving in every facet of the game. Almost on a, what did you say, Tommy earlier? It's like he's improving on a week-by-week basis. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's adjusting to the defense. He's learning a nice, he's developing nice pick and roll chemistry with guys.

I think Josh Jackson was the guy that they kept mentioning. It was like they kept connecting, but there's just a lot of improvement. And we talked just last week about I think his ceiling is still a bench player, but I think he could be like an elite bench center, like that guy that you want to watch battle in the second unit, and he can eat up usage there without ball stopping. Yeah, I'll just disagree again. Yeah, I think he could be that sort of low cost,

not, you know, by no means game changing, but low cost and effective center with a lot of intangibles. He's a guy, I think, as long as he's good enough to do it, you want to have him on the floor as much as possible just because of the way he lifts the team. Yeah, there are things you can't quantify, you know, and even just watching Stewart out there, you can tell that he, I don't know what the right way to put this is. He elevates those around him just by proxy. Like his energy is clearly infectious The way that he fights for the ball Just seems to inspire everybody around him So he might not jump the highest

He might not be the fastest But this is a guy who Yeah, I agree Mike, you want him out there You want him out there in almost every situation So I don't know if I would agree That his ceiling is a bench player I would be pretty I wouldn't be thrilled if we

You know, took a bench center And that was the plan for him in the first round I really hope he can be a starting center. I'm not sure if his lack of verticality will prevent that, but he's a lot of fun to watch when he's out there. And to me, he makes more of an impact than Plumley does. You know, we were talking, we were talking

right before we started recording about how Plumley puts up, you know, respectable looking stats, but a lot of those stats are just, they're accrued by virtue of him just existing on the court. And because Casey, you know, runs this team in such a mind boggling way, he has the ball in his hands a lot.

I'm not really sure why that is, but he's going to put up somewhat respectable stats as a result of how often he has the ball and how involved he is. But I think Stewart can be better than him. And I like watching Stewart more than him. So I would hope that, you know, Isaiah is a starting center for this team one day. Otherwise, I wouldn't be thrilled with the use of a first round pick on intangibles, I guess. I'm not sure how you guys feel about that, but that's, that would be my take. I mean, I feel that if you are a center, just because centers are, I mean, the versatility of an athletic wing is going to trumped out of a center and, you know, in every respect. If you're a center, basically your

baseline is, if you're drafted as a center, your baseline for success is going to be higher just because you, you're, yeah, you're inherently less valuable. So, so it's not like an athletic wing who, you know, you know, for example, you take Josh Green, whom the Pistons could have drafted. He was taken by the Mavericks. Came in the NBA, equipped to be a good defender. It was very athletic. I could probably defend four positions. You know, that's not altogether incredibly unusual these days. If you can, you know, defend up the power forward. Your power forwards these days are just generally not very big.

Your average forward is a combo forward. But whatever, even if you can just say you can defend three positions, whatever. He comes in the league, able to do that. If he becomes a reliable three-point shooter, boom, that's a player who is a good pick at number 16, and he's going to be useful to your roster. he's going to have an NBA career because if you're an athletic wing who can switch and defend well and shoot

threes, awesome. Every team wants players like that. Now, if you are a traditional center, excuse me, if you're a center of any ilk, I mean, you've got a significantly further way to go in order to become an effective NBA player. So I've said it before, yeah, whether it's in the bench

or in the starting lineup, if he can move his feet on defense and switch and it's looking good at this point, actually. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. You know, like he managed to stay in front of Chris Paul. And Chris Paul isn't a Chris Paul he once was. I feel like he's noticeably slower this season.

But, you know, it's, there are some smarts there. And he's not, he moves his feet well. So if he can do that, he can switch properly. And he brings a lot on defense just by virtue of his energy and in his IQ. If he can learn to shoot threes, then cool, that's immediately a good pick. And, yeah, so I'd be happy. happy in that case, even if he's playing from the bench, you know, 16th pick, a guy who, who can do that and will be a good, you know, sixth, seventh man and cool.

But he's certainly been fun to watch. And he's been effective, certainly. His offense still needs work, but he's been, you know, he's been effective. And, you know, from all that has been said by his opponents, they seem to, those I've read have really singled him out for praise amongst the pissens. Yeah, when I think about it, when I say that I think he's only going to be a bench there. It's not that I don't think he could ever start.

I think of it more as is he going to be a starter on a good team. Is he going to contribute to the play style and the pace, I guess, that you really want? The league is, like you mentioned, moving towards faster pace, spacing. And even if Isaiah develops a three, I don't expect him to be the guy that. Christian Wood has become my benchmark for centers. So I don't expect Isaiah to be that guy who, like, fakes a three and then takes it inside and, you know, slams it. that's the reason I just don't see him as a starting center. I don't think he's going to develop a great, like, two-man game with a point guard where they're just like a fantastic combination.

I really like him more as a guy who's just doing that against bench tier centers. I don't think he has the, let me say, yeah, the vertical to do it. Like he was playing well enough against Aiton, and Aighton is a great player. And like you said, he switched on to Chris Paul on the perimeter, and he was able to see. stay in front of him. I just don't think he's going to be that good of a player in the playoffs. I think he'd be in over his head at that level, or if you ask him to do that. I think it's better to keep him where he excels. I think he's more valuable that way. I think he could only be a viable starting center if the Pistons had a lot of, you know, on a on a prospect of championship team,

if the Pistons have a lot of talent around him. I mean, I believe I put out that that provisor when we talked about this in the last episode yeah but if you do have that talent around him then you know then great then he's a low cost pretty effective starting center who can come out there with the starters and you have a team that still might be able to win a championship I mean don't

don't undersell the value of having you know potentially effective center who's not a game changer but doesn't cost you much money I mean that's actually that's it's an interesting it's an interesting niche and I hate to hate to throw them into it and say well you know it's nice to have you because you're effective and we don't have to pay you very much.

But yeah. That's the reality of roster construction, right? You know, we don't have the luxury of, let's just sign LeBron this offseason. We are not that team. So if we're going to ever reach that championship contention anytime soon, it's going to have to come through these proven, you know, choices that turn out better than we thought they could have turned out. And I'll be the first to admit I wasn't, you know, thrilled with the store pick on Draft

night because I remember thinking like, man, like a center, really? Like a traditional center. But then as I've watched him play, there are things you just can't describe that he does and the value of someone like that who's making a difference on the court and you don't have to pay them an absurd amount of money. That's valuable. That's valuable to a team like the Pistons who needs all the cheap talent that they can get. Yeah. So let's pivot. We mentioned a little bit earlier, Wayne Ellington and Blake Griffin. So it's no secret that Blake has been struggling all season. Ellington, of course, had been excellent for a stretch of seven games.

So things changed, of course, for Ellington, starting with, it's only been two games, but there was just a distinct change in how the defenses of the Warriors and the Jazz chose to handle him. Also, those teams went by Steve Kerr for the Warriors. and Quinn Snyder for the Jazz. I think those are two of the very best coaches in the league changes. And also how they played Blake Griffin, which really lowered his effectiveness. And to a degree, the Suns as well.

To order his effectiveness from bad to nearly zero. So let's start with Ellington. So basically, Ellington, during those seven games and big minute games in starting lineup, the average 19, about 19 points per game on 82% true shooting, as completely ludicrous. I mean, this is absolutely ridiculous efficiency. I think Duncan Robinson actually accomplished like mid-70s last year, but, you know, Wayne Ellington is not Duncan Robinson.

So we know what Wayne Ellington is. He's an above-average three-point shooter who can make some difficult shots, but he's not an elite three-point shooter. Yeah, you know, up there, but not elite, and he doesn't provide much beyond three-point shooting. Nonetheless, I mean, basically Dwayne Casey have been running an offense that really was focused, I would say primarily upon getting Ellington open shots. And whether these be, you know, just setting a lot of screens for Wayne to run around those.

And then, you know, either the defender had to jump in from the interior and Wayne would just pump fake him and then shoot the ball or Wayne would just have an open shot or whatever else. And it was beyond me why it took, why it was taking these teams so long to start saying, why don't we just focus on Wayne Ellington? Because he's just absolutely, you know, scorching. And he's such, you know, he's just shooting at a tremendous rate. in terms of his conversion. And, you know, like Frank Vogel of the Lakers, I noticed that he made a cursory effort by just having KCP dog him, the dog Ellington, I think pretty much the entire game.

But that wasn't much. You know, Ellington still got his shots by running around screens. The Wakers were exhausted and playing the Sixers the night before. So now what Steve Kurted is basically he made Ellington a focus. Anytime Ellington's defender had any trouble getting around the screen, another defender would switch on to him instantly. He would have no space. Like literally, he did not take a single shot in the entire game that was not closely contested,

an off balance and just a very extremely difficult opportunity, and very few players convert those at any sort of decent percentage. So, yeah, that's what Kerr did. There's a strategy that would have made sense for anybody, because it's like if you have to choose between leaving, like, the 36% three-point shooter open, or the, like, 52% three-point shooter open, or it was more than that, I think 62 or something like that. Pretty easy choice.

It's an even easier choice for the Pistons, who have one other reliable three-point shooter on the floor that was Jeremy Grant. So the Pistons went then to Utah. Quinn Snyder did much the same thing, just gave him no space. He also had Mike Conley and Donovan Mitchell throw at him. And Wayne just suffered from the same. He had one open three-point attempt across those two games, and he didn't make it.

He had two points across those two games. So, you know, and that's what you do. And if Wayne Ellington isn't shooting at a high percentage from three, then he's a pretty big minus. You know, he's not an awful defender, but he's not a good defender. And if he's not shooting threes, he offers an X-and-nothing in the starting lineup. And then there was Blake Griffin. He hasn't been effective to any degree. But actually, let's just go through Wayne before we get to Blake.

Have you guys really seen? I know you guys said that much the same opinion on Ellington. Oh, it's, well, I mean, it goes without saying. All you have to do is watch. And Mike, you brought up a very astute point. last week when you basically said, look, Wayne is a good three-point shooter, but he's not this good, and some combination of defenses finally beginning to react to what's going on with him, and the law of averages, they're going to come together, and you're going to see probably,

I don't know if this was your exact wording, but you're going to see a decline, right, and the efficiency, and it will probably be dramatic. And scoring two points across two games, that's about as dramatic of a drop-off as you can get. So it's unfortunate what's happened, but I can't say that it went or it came entirely out of nowhere. Yeah, my thing is that I hope they would start running more offense for more people than just Wayne Ellington. Before the Sun's game, I was really hoping. Once I saw that Sadiq Bey was going to be in the starting lineup, I was hoping they would start running him some offense, get him some off ball screens, give him some picking rules, and thankfully they did.

So maybe a more diversified scoring attack would help. I'm not sure that you want it to be super effective, but at least now you're getting looks for guys who actually have a chance of contributing to the future of the Pistons. So I'm glad that they kind of figured it out and Casey's been forced to try something new. Yeah, it was kind of irritating, like in the floor of the overall offense,

how Jeremy Graham was kind of ending up marginalized somehow, but that's a different story. So then to Blake Griffin. Blake has been bad all seasons. he had one kind of, you know, a couple of aberrations in that, to be honest, his baseline is low. He shot really well from three against the Cavaliers, and he shot really well from three against the Lakers. The Lakers, the Lakers just Frank Vogue played him really stupidly. You know, number one, Blake hit 50% of his threes.

That's going to help anybody's efficiency, but also teams, not only the Lakers, but other teams had been doubling Blake when he brings the ball up. It used to be last season, two seasons ago, he's still very athletic. you'd bring the ball up, drive into the paint, post up, and go from there. And he was still more than explosive enough to make that happen. That's no longer the case this year. If he'll post up in the three-point line and just back a guy down and it's still big and strong enough to do that. Other teams have been helping on him as a result. The fact is that Blake, once he gets close to the basket, isn't really great at scoring there anymore.

And by doubling him, you open up somebody in the three-point line and you make Blake a little bit more effective just by being able to feed open shooters in the perimeter. So what Steve Kerr did was just say, here's your defender. You can back him down and we're going to let you hang yourself, which is exactly what happened. Blake either had to settle for bad shots or he got the ball poked away from him. Blake is a predictable player. People know what he's going to do. He's either going to shoot a spot up three point, you know, excuse me, a step, a pull-up three-pointer, excuse me. Or he's going to try to back down his opponent.

And it's two seasons ago. He could also drive into the, drive into, toward the basket. And he can't do that anymore. But nonetheless, he was predictable back then. He was just so good at what he was doing that it really didn't matter. He was predictable. He just set a physical advantage and he was very good at this craft and that's no longer the case. So you couple the fact that he's now a bad shooter from the outside and not a good shooter, particularly from the interior.

And if you couple that with your predictability, it makes it very easy. Steph Curry beat him twice on post-ups. So what Steve Kurt had said, yeah, have fun. You know, we're going to let you post-up. and we're not going to help. And you're probably not going to do pretty well on it. And in the worst case scenario, you've blown 16 seconds on two points. Now, what the jazz did, I mean, Quinn Snyder added an additional wrinkle,

which is that he just, the only person he would have help was Gobert. So if Blake backed down Bogdanovitch, who is his primary matchup, and he got near the basket, then Gobert would just kind of come ambling out of the paint and hold his arms up. And it's like, okay, Blake, you know, now you can try to shoot over, Bogdanovich and the stifle tower. And it's like, good luck with that. The only thing Blake could do was shovel it under the basket to Plumbley,

and that's an opportunity you'll put up with if you're the jazz. And against the suns, it was much the same. Alvin Gentry's nowhere near as good a coach. But for the most part, they just let Blake go one-on-one. And the fact is that once Blake gets close to the basket, he's just not great at scoring there. I mean, two seasons ago, that would just be an excuse to get scored on constantly. This season, it's perfectly fine.

It goes without saying, I mean, Blake is horrible defensively, too. Just awful. I mean, I lost count of how many times he blew coverage last night. So, yeah, Dante, you said he was a minus. I think that's an understatement. He's now averaging about, you know, 12.5, 5 and a half and 3 and a half on the season on 49% free shooting. Not quite the all-NBA.

No, this is a guy in terms of, you know, I've seen questions about, oh, how can we get rid of Blake? Do you think Blake wants out? Blake is going nowhere unless the Pistons play a hefty price to get rid of him. He is a far below average NBA starter who is paid $37 million against the cap this season and $39 million next season. And the way that he has been handled the last three games has just made his effectiveness drop from bad to near zero. And it's sad to see that fall from grace. He's averaging like eight three and three over the last two games. I'm like 43 percent for shooting.

it's it's you know and he disrupts the flow of the offense and so on and so forth yeah he's a ball stopper too you know when he gets the ball it's not like yeah interrupting the flow is a great way to put it because you can you can really see it you know it's even when these quick passes are happening which isn't frequent under duane casey offense but even when we do move the ball when it gets to blake you know it doesn't matter where he's but he he he get the ball in the parking lot and he would post up he is a very predictable player and then you know when he puts his back to the basket from the three-point line and just kind of slowly posts up and backs in, it's like it's frustrating to watch and then the threes aren't falling either. And he certainly isn't

able to drive anymore. So what you're left with is like a $37 million liability, quite honestly. It's not just that he's not good. He's actively hurting the team. And I don't, you know, I don't think we should forget as Pistons fans how great that all NBA season was of his because I know that I appreciated it. He was, I know he's paid a lot of money, a lot of money, but he was dealt a pretty poor hand as far as like, I know he was excited to be a clipper and sign that extension, and then they kind of, not kind of, they shipped him off unceremoniously and, you know, he's getting off his plane in the middle of winter in Detroit.

And he put his body on the line and he gave it everything he had. And I was actually at that game. I believe it was game four against Milwaukee in the playoffs when the Pistons were. about to get swept. And Blake checked out for the last time and the whole arena started chanting MVP for him. That was a pretty good sports memory for me. And I think for a lot of fans, it's, it's pretty evident that Blake is not a bad guy. Like he tries. He tries often to the point of detriment to himself, clearly, because he just brutalized his knee. And I know the Pistons doctor said it couldn't get worse by playing on it, but I don't know where they got their medical degree

because it clearly has gone worse. He's not the same player. But I guess in summation, the point I'm trying to make with this tangent is that I appreciate him for what he's done, but he's not the same player anymore, unfortunately. And I don't hold any ill will towards him for that because I know he's trying.

We can see the frustration, but he just can't do it. And it's sad. It is. And I think if you want to play him 24 minutes off the bench, I'd perfectly understand that. It's playing him 32 to 36. Yeah, play him 32 to 36 in the starting.

lineup is it's getting a little bit, I don't know, the word insulting doesn't really work. I mean, that's, that's kind of an entitled term, but it's like, it's too much. There's no reason for that happened. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It doesn't make sense. It is too much, yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, I will say, I don't know, I mean, I'm not a medical professional, but based on, based on my knowledge understanding of the situation, I would guess that it was not playing out that made it worse. It was the surgery and the recovery that made it worse. Oh, it may have been. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that can happen. I mean, people can have surgery, and they come back looking worse than before,

but it was a surgery they had to have. I do also object to the, not that you guys said this, but the notion that he destroyed his body for the pistons. This is the way Blake plays. He would have been playing the same way on the clippers. He would have had more help, but he wouldn't be playing the same way. And Chris Paul left, that left, you know, Blake became the guy. And, you know, he goes to work down low.

That's what he does. Yeah, I don't know that I would say he destroyed it for the pistons, but I think that he... I think I put the final nail on. It would, yeah, but I would just say that by virtue of being on a team that their aspirations were, for all intents and purposes, to get the eight seed, it's not like he thought to himself, oh, I'm going to do this courageous self-sacrifice on my body to make sure we go to the playoffs. It was probably just by virtue of, you know, he is a professional basketball player and he's going to give his entirety to whatever organization he finds himself a part of. So he's like, I'm going to try my best. I'm going to put it all out on the line because that's what I do. That's what I'm paid for. So I don't know that he did it for the Pistons, but he did it, and he just so happened to be in a Pistons jersey when his body couldn't hold up anymore. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree with you there.

But I mean, I'd say this was what ultimately happened was just a long culmination of not only injuries and surgeries, but just a lot of NBA miles, a lot of very, very, very physical hard hitting NBA miles. Yeah, it was a bumpy road. It wasn't a school road. Yeah. It's the way he plays, yeah. So in any event, yeah, that is what it is.

but yeah, the last three games, I mean, just the way that opponents have been playing him. You know, it's, it's, it's the right way. And it's, uh, how do I know what else? How much, much else there is to say about it? No, those are almost out. It's just unfortunate. It's, it's tough to see. Yeah, I know, Tommy, I know you were super excited when the trade was made.

Could you possibly have seen this sort of thing coming? I'm just kidding. Tommy was completely outraged. I think, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of past it. I think what you got to do is, like, think about what to do with him now. And I think, you know, we've seen this off-ball role that Sadiq has played where he's just kind of standing in the opposite corner. I think Blake is a better catch-and-shoot three-point shooter. Well, it's hard to imagine him being a worse catch-and-shoe three-point shooter compared to what he's doing on pull-ups this year.

So I think that's kind of the role for him now. Yesterday against the Sons, he only played 24 minutes. I think that's a good number for him. You park him in a corner. You hope the opponents respect him enough. Maybe he's smart enough of a player to convince him with a pump fake and he can draw the foul. Or maybe he just really starts splashing threes. But I think that's kind of a ceiling now.

You make him a very expensive three-point shooter. Very expensive. Extremely expensive. Yeah. As far as NBA players who are playing right now, You know, you don't want to look at, you know, of course, guys who are out entirely providing no value at all. But Blake, yeah, I would say, I would say value versus salary is the worst than the India. So, yeah, I mean, you add to that to the fact that he literally just can't play defense.

He can't, just the common theme is that he can't close out to the three-point line from like eight feet away. You know, if you get the ball to his defender in the corner, no matter of Blake, is just exactly positioned properly. Like in between the paint and a three-point line, he's not going to get there. I will say, I don't like that people are saying that he's not trying. I do say he's trying that he cares. Well, he just ripped his jersey and half.

He obviously cares, yeah. I would say against the jazz, some of his effort on defense, I mean, you could see him get exasperated, and then he just kind of gave up in the first half prior to ripping his jersey and throwing his chair. It's like he's playing with dead legs. It's very frustrated, for him you can tell. Well, some of it,

He checked out a little. He checked out a little on the jazz game, and I saw him just kind of just throw it, just almost kind of like throw his arms up and not play defense in a couple of possessions. But the idea, yeah, I would say I agree, the idea that I think my opinion is the idea that Blake Griffin is ever not trying his hardest is without merit.

But, you know, on defense, sometimes he just sort of lets it happen. But that was sort of the case a couple seasons ago to. That was a little bit more understandable at that point as far as just saving all of his energy for offense. LeBron, of course, is much older. but LeBron phones have done on defense in the regular season. That's a very different story. I'm not comparing the two.

But whatever the case, it does kind of make a mockery of Dwayne Casey's idea of, oh, you've got to go out and be able to play effective defense and compete and whatnot, and you've got to earn your minutes because Blake Griffin is doing neither of those things. So, yeah, if he continues just being fed 32 minutes for the sake, if you get 32 minutes because you're Blake Griffin, I mean, I think that's, I don't think that's right. I just don't. And I don't think that, you know,

seen it said, oh, he's earned this because he destroyed his body for the pistons. It's like, no, he really pretty much destroyed his body before he came to the pistons. And he's a, he's a sportsman being paid a very high paycheck. He went out and played the way he plays. So, yeah, with the time left, why don't we talk a little bit about Jeremy Grant's case for all-stardom? So Grant obviously made a big leap, huge leap, just in terms of everything, in terms of scoring, in terms of passing, in terms of taking on the primary creation role for a team. and I'd argue he's been even better than his stats because he's been responsible for a great deal. He's been good on defense.

My opinion, and he's creating about half of his offense too, which is a significant number. And he's doing that with pretty good efficiency. So my opinion is that, unfortunately, as much as I like what Grant has done, I don't think he is a, is really an all-star. I think it's just tough to look at a guy who's putting up good stats and a bad team and name him that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if, I don't know if he's going to be an All-Star. I think we all would like for him to be because this has been just not a fun season to watch in almost any facet. And kind of that glimmer of like, well, you know, at least Jeremy made the leap to All-Star. That would be great.

I would love it. I would love if he was. Yeah, good stats on a bad team. That's something that's held players back from Ackleads before. So we're going to have to see how that plays out. but I think you'd really have to be watching, like watching the Pistons games to know that Grant is a better player than even his stats would suggest. And his stats suggests that he's a very good player. So a lot of his offense is self-created because Dwayne Casey just can't, well, I've talked enough about it.

I'll leave it at that. But I think he's a better player than his stats even shows. So I wonder how much the other aspects that are not the fan voting are going to come into play here because I feel like he's a very well-respected player. So that might be enough to kind of give them the edge, but, you know, remains to be seen them. I got my fingers crossed. I'm not overly optimistic, but it's, we'll find out. Yeah, I wouldn't say that it's going to happen this season, but I wouldn't put it out of the question for, like, future seasons. It's the bad stats on a, or good stats on a bad team thing.

I think if you were to get in, it would be like the Chris Middleton way where he's just, he gets recognition as being on a good team and playing as an elite role. player or really, really good job as a role player's game. I think his game would scale well, you know, next to maybe a more all-dominant player or more dynamic player. I know he's creating a lot more of his offense this year, but maybe not this year, but the fact that he's getting votes at all. I mean, somebody, when we made the trade, I was watching highlights on YouTube and somebody commented, it was a Pistons fan down below. It was like, great pickup future multi-time all-star. I think I literally commented, okay, calm down. But he's getting, he's getting it.

Yeah, he's improved beyond what any of us probably thought he was capable of. Absolutely. To go from role player to someone who's waving people off at the end of games because he wants to take the big shot. Not that there's been many opportunities for the Pistons to take big shots, but the transformation has been staggering. And, you know, he's only 26, turning 27. It's not like he's on the back end of his career. He could still ascend. So I don't think All-Stars out of the – I wouldn't put it entirely out of the question for this.

season, though it's probably leaning more towards he won't be than he will be, but I wouldn't put it off the table at all for future seasons. Yeah, agreed. I just, I agree he's disadvantaged from his current situation, both playing for the Pistons in a very small market for what's currently a team that has next to no national attention. And also just it's very difficult to see the true value of a player when he's just the primary option putting up really big stats and a really bad So that'll be all for today's episode. As always, thank you all for listening. We'll see you next time.