Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 34: The Rose trade, Saddiq Bey’s progress, and Mason Plumlee’s value

Episode Date: February 14, 2021

This episode recaps the week's games, discusses the Derrick Rose trade, talks Saddiq Bey's big game and yet more about Isaiah Stewart's persistent improvement, speaks on Mason Plumlee's value, takes note of Wayne Ellington's rapid descent back to earth, and ends with a quick profile on projected top-five pick Jalen Suggs.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Drive into the Basket. I'm Mike. I'm here with Tommy and Dante. So we are going to launch straight into the content here, starting with a segment that we're going to try to do actually every week, just a weekly recap. Excuse me, a quick recap of the week's games. Recording this episode, the day after the Pistons victory against the Boston Celtics. and the day before they go up against the arch nemesis. Not so much, but somebody we all dislike quite a bit, Stan Van Gundy and the New Orleans Pelicans. So, yeah, we'll talk about the games of the week. We'll move on to talk about the Derek Rose trade,

a bit about Dennis Smith Jr. We'll talk about Steak Bay and his big game against the Celtics. Isaiah Stewart's continued improvements. A little bit about Wayne Ellington and how bad he's been since defenses started paying attention to him. And then we will conclude the Pistons content with discussion of Mason Plumley. And then finally, Tommy, our resident draft expert, will talk a bit about, and we're going to be just doing kind of some draft previews.

We're going to get started with that actually today, as Tommy will be talking about, J-1 sucks for a little bit. So just watching straight into the weekly recap, you start out with the Lakers. game. WOT loss. The Pistons really actually fought very well in this game. It was an impressive performance in its own right. You know, as far as the actual performances of the players went,

not really so many good ones. Well, basically, I'll revise that, actually. You had four players who played really well, and the rest of the team played pretty well, actually, and the rest the team was not so good. Jeremy Grant, of course, was the mainstay. was just forced to really attempt a lot of very, very difficult offense. Finished with 32 points on not so great efficiency.

Did a decent job defensively. Plumley actually had a pretty underrated game all around. Dillon Wright played well. Josh Jackson, probably the best player on the team overall. He just had a great game. Saw extended run from Svi for the first time in the season. I don't really understand why that that happened. in this particular game.

But not really much to say, beyond the Pistons, grinded it out against a much superior team that this time did have Anthony Davis. And ultimately, it ended when LeBron just decided in double over time that he wanted to go to sleep. And just, you know, did his typical, I'm going to make really difficult shots because I feel like it. And there's nothing you can do about it. And the game ended.

So the only complaint I have about the game is that, is that it's basically as is characterized the Pistons other WOTT game. Excuse me, or it's the OT games. I think the Pistons have only played Wattowt games, actually. The veterans just got an enormous amount of run. Isaiah Stewart only played 10 minutes. He did have five fouls, though. That probably had something to do with it.

So I'll open that not a little bit. You guys have any thoughts on that game? I think it was this pretty cut and dry affair. No, it was nice to see Jeremy Grant going, I want to say toe-to-to-toe with LeBron. was really, really good. He was one of the best players on the floor. So that was a lot of fun to watch.

And you know what? There's not much more you can ask for, aside from, yeah, the rotations being a little weird. But in a rebuilding year, to take the Lakers to double overtime and you almost squeaked it out, but you didn't. Not terrible. So I had fun watching that game. Yeah, I think the only thing that I was kind of thinking about at the end of that game

is that people really wanted Isaiah Stewart in at the end there for defense. With five fouls, Lakers, the bonus. I'm kind of happy that they kept him out. I think he would have followed out pretty quickly in that game. He just plays a bit of a follow-up wrong game, and I think Casey made the right call there. It didn't end up working in the end, but I understand why he went with that. Yeah, I'll just absolutely admit here that I, that completely blown over me that he had that many fouls. At the time, I was thinking, why is Mason Plumlee playing 48, we know, 47 and a half minutes in this game when Stewart's been so good?

But, yeah, when you manage to rack up five fouls in 10 minutes, then there's really not a great deal that can be done. There's also a situation in which, you know, it would have been, sure, you have Julia O'Kefour who's out with injury for, I think, a couple months. It would have been nice, you know, would have been helpful, a tough situation in which to have a backup center who actually can play NBA basketball. I mean, regardless even if Okafor was around,

I mean, the guy has nothing to offer. You know, I'm not complaining. It was one of these things where, you know, the game was what it was. but yeah, Seku got the starts did not play well. And I don't care, frankly. I think it's worth remembering about Sekka. When he was drafted in 2019, the story on draft night was really,

this guy, you know, it's not about what he can offer. Right now, it's about what he can offer in like three years. And it was unclear at that point if he'd even be, you know, I think that his trajectory, was judged to be G-League for at least a season, if not two. Because the guy's super raw. The idea was to capitalize on the ceiling. So things have gone differently than expected.

All right, moving out of the Nets game. Pistons won this one pretty convincingly. The Nets were without Kevin Durant's. This was one of these sadder games I've watched because it was not so much sad, but just unbelievably ugly. I mean, the Pistons, you know, for their part, part didn't play badly. The nets were just comically bad. I mean, even without Durant, you can see even without Durant, they've still got, you know,

two Hall of Fame talents on their team. I think I think Kyrieman all is said and done will be a Hall of Fame talent and Harden, of course. But without Durant, the team seems to be an amorphous blob that just cannot play any defense at all. The Harden trade really tenued the team of, of defenders, you know, of reasonable defenders. I mean, Jared Allen's a good defender. Keroselbert's a good defender. James Harden made it clear very early on that he just didn't really care about defense in that game.

DeAndre Jordan used to be an all-world defender. Either doesn't care now or can't jump anymore, I don't know. But just like the Nets went from having an ex, you know, a really good offense and a respectable defense prior to the trade to having it. you know, potential all-time great offense and a potential all-time worst defense. And it really showed. And Durant is actually a pretty good defender.

I mean, they didn't just miss them on offense. Durant is actually a good defender. So it was kind of a game in which I felt like the Nets beat themselves. I don't think the Pistons really, really, you know, played to, well enough to beat the Nets if they had been, you know, even playing at a decent level. But the Nets were not. Yeah, Grant was great.

De Laamwright, who's had some definitely had a share of good games lately. You know, cough, trademarked cough, please. I did okay. Actually, you know, efficient, speaking in terms of efficiency, he wasn't really actually that good at all. He took a ton of free throws. It takes you 16 shots and 12 free throws to make 22 points. It's not great, but it was a good facilitator. This was kind of Sadiq Bay's comeback game. So a lot of it was, some of it was in garbage time, but, you know, 15 points and didn't

miss a shot for him. Yeah, any thoughts on this one? I mean, Grant was the star again, right? I know the Nets defense is, yeah, comically bad is probably a good way to put it. But at the end of the day, you still got to put the ball in the basket. And Grant went ahead and did that. So continuing his strong season and, you know, based on the next couple games, that was the last game of his that was excellent or even really good.

He's been struggling a little bit lately. So this is a nice game to go back and rewatch the highlights because we haven't seen Grant like that in like a week now. And yeah, Dilan hopefully, or four days, whatever the case may be. Delon was good too. He's being played in very short about a time this season. Yeah, yeah. But hopefully that trade market is heating up for Dilan too because I don't,

I've made my feelings known about Dilan, right? I don't think he's a particularly good player. I think he accrues a lot of stats by just, by virtue of just being there and being like the primary ball handler on offense. And Casey's choosing to pretty much run the offense through like him and Plumley and Griffin. So I'm not really impressed by any of Dillon's stat lines. They only look good like once in every three games, honestly. So if a team wants to trade for them, yeah, by all means, take them.

That's kind of how I feel. And the next game kind of highlighted that for me. So that's about what I would have to say. I don't have anything. I think you hit the nail on the head there. All right. Yeah, always do. Yeah.

Fair enough. Moving on the Pacers, this was a pretty convincing loss for the Pistons. I mean, the Pacers were, who have not really been all that great lately. I mean, they did trade Ola Depot to get back Lovartes, who more or less may have had his life saved by that trade because the physical found that he had a tumor, one of his kidneys, I believe. So he's out for a while. Isaiah Stewart got his first start ever.

Plumley has Bricot as the elbow. And I did a decent job against, against DeMontas Sabanus, who's one of the better interior scorers in the league. I feel like, and we can talk about this a little bit later, I suppose, with Stewart, but I feel like you get a fairly good game. Grant, as you mentioned, Dante really struggled. His shots just weren't falling. And, yeah, Josh Jackson had at the next.

another strong game off the bench. Blake Griffin looked okay, but actually didn't play well. I mean, here's the thing about Blake. You can look at his points. It's like, okay, scored 16 points. Took him 13 shots and five free throws to get there. And he's almost invariably going to be worse than his stats because he's a pile on on defense and he can't move on offense.

You know, you just got to give him the ball and let him go to work, and that's really not ideal. So it was a little remarkable in the game. and then you saw Saku actually play some center. And, you know, the guy's a decent rebounder. And, but, you know, he's not, he's got a long way to go until he can actually face off than any of these heavier guys. But, you know, I think he gave it, you know, he did a decent job

until he got hit in the head. Not really much else to say about that game. Just the Pacers are the better team, and they grinded it out. And, you know, the team that's playing up to nearly, you know, somewhere near its potential, a decent team. You know, they really picked it up in the second half. And any team that's playing to its potential that isn't named the Wizards or the Timberwolves is just going to beat the Pistons. It's kind of the way it is.

Mike, I think you're missing a critical storyline that emerged from that game. I'm surprised you missed it. Yeah, you're usually on the ball, but DeVita Cervetus recorded an assist. Oh, right. Yeah, his first counting step. That's right. Yeah. I don't know how you miss that.

That they would intentionally foul to get him a shot attempt. But, you know, I guess they just, you know, people don't care enough about the Dave to do that sort of thing. Yeah, you're usually on the ball. I'm surprised you miss that. Yeah, I, uh, it's, yeah, I have no excuse. Yeah, I admit to my wrongdoing. So that's the Pacers game. That was that.

Yeah, that's the Pacers game. What? that in suffocating defense that was a lot of fun to watch if you're just a fan of good defense yeah in the first half yeah both teams played good defense in the second half the pacer's i think broke out of whatever funk they were in and started moving the ball a little bit better and and that's they they kept playing good defense the pistance really couldn't yeah or as i saw it yeah i think it's a pretty cut and dry loss like i said you know kind of shout out to josh jackson who's been playing a lot better off the bench uh they're the guy one of the things that's

that really plagued him in Phoenix and even a bit with the Grizzlies last season. The shot selection, he takes some bad shots, and those really kind of compromises efficiency. It's fun to watch. And then finally, the Boston game. Worth noting that the Celtics were without their two primary ball handlers, that's Marcus Smart and Kemba Walker. Kemba hasn't been good this season, but probably better to play him than have to fall back on Peyton Pritchard as your starting point guard,

or Jeff Teague, who is, probably about one-third the player he was back in 2016. So the story of that game, of course, was Sadiq Bey. We'll talk about him a little bit later on. He was seven for seven from three. First, broken NBA history to make seven or more threes with, without missing a single one, you know, whatever the stat is, what it is, a little cherry-picked.

But it's great to see him have a good game. only other player who really did actually only other one player period who did particularly well was Delon Wright who had a good game you know aside from that I mean the Pistons on defense did a pretty good job of slowing down Tatum

and and Brown neither of whom really scored particularly efficiently those are two very very good players I think I think it was Tatum who after the game said, remarked on that he kind of got beat up by the Pistons a little bit. He wasn't saying this in a complimentary way. But, yeah, that's nice to hear nonetheless. Yeah, that was nice.

That was nice. Sort of finding an identity a little bit. And obviously kind of playing into the history of the Pistons, that was nice to hear. That was nice. You always like reading stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely. It was close game. I mean, to Sadiq Bay, I think he, convincingly say was the difference. Jeremy Grant really struggled again. And, I mean, not nearly as bad, but it is against the Pacers, but he didn't really have a particularly good game on offense. I'm starting to think, sorry, go on.

I'm starting to think maybe Jeremy should get a night off here because I noticed, I don't remember, I think it was at the end of maybe the third quarter, Grant kind of tried to jump into Peyton Pritchard rather than shooting over him, which to me just shows that he's kind of, he's missing his legs a little bit. I think he's tired.

Could be. Yeah, yeah. And honestly, I would say it's likely to be the case. I remember a long time ago, I watched a Kobe Bryant interview where he talked about how probably the biggest, the biggest factor for player shots not falling towards the end of the season is just the, it's just fatigue. You have to be able to get that trajectory when you jump, right?

And when your legs are tired and there's, you know, build up of, build up of fatigue, right? You're probably not going to score as efficiently. You're going to settle for bad shots. So I think we're starting to see that with Grant. And it doesn't help too. I don't know if you guys have noticed, but he hasn't really been getting a lot of calls the last few games.

He hasn't been to the line quite as much as we're accustomed to seeing him there. So a combination of no calls and no legs, I think is that this is the result, right? So I would not be surprised at all to see Grant get a load management day here coming up. And then it's probably going to come back refreshed and start to look like himself again. That's a great point. Yeah, he had three free throws last night and zero against the Pacers. Yeah, it's not normal. It's not normal when someone goes to the basket as often as he does.

And honestly, he doesn't just throw up a floater. Like, he goes hard. He goes hard to the rim. He draws a lot of contact. He ends up on his ass a lot. And so when he puts his hands up and he's like, where's my call? I agree with him. He's getting absolutely beat up out there,

and he's just not getting the respect that he deserves, quite frankly. But I don't expect that to last. Those calls are probably going to regress back to the mean. And then combined with some days off, I think we're going to see the return of normal Jeremy Grant. All right. That's a great point. All right.

So that's the games of the week. We've got two wins and two losses. which is more success, I think, than we'd like to see out of the distance, but that is what it is. So just to reiterate to anybody, you know, to those of you who listen to the podcast and they might wonder why we don't want the distance to be winning,

of course, is draft position. And yes, there was a lottery reform that allows the three worst teams, the same odds at the number one overall pick. That said, if you're the worst team in the league, you are guaranteed at least the fifth pick. Obviously, your chances of dropping past four, as the worst team are very low,

but you're guaranteed at least the fifth pick, and this is a five-deep draft. I mean, so it's a very, very good season to be the worst team. All right, so let's move on from there to one of the stories of the week. It would be Derek Rose being traded. So, yeah, Tommy, I know you would want Derek Rose to be gone for a while. What are your thoughts about this trade, you know, basically in particular? Yeah, good enough trade.

I think Rose wanted to go to New York where Thibbs loves him and it'll probably get a nice role in the offense. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Pistons picked New York's offer in part because they wanted to do Rose right. And I'm okay with that. We're not talking about a crazy good return here. I don't think any of the offers were going to be significantly better than the other. I'm really happy that when the org seems like they're going to get that reputation

with players and agents as a good team to work with, I think that's probably one of the maybe the unseen benefits of this trade. And then as far as losing Derek Rose, I'll be honest, I think it's addition by subtraction. Rose did play with blinders sometimes, and I think he took a lot of possessions from the young guys playing in the bench unit. And I think the ball is going to move a lot better now, and that's better for development.

Rose was able to get to the basket without too much trouble, and now the team will have to work harder and work together to get those open looks. I think we're going to see a little bit more of that. So I'm happy with the trade. I think people are starting to get a little bit, tired of Rose Isoing. I still respect him as a great talent, but I don't think he was the player that the pistons needed right now. So I'm happy with it. Yeah, I completely agree. Addition by subtraction is a good way to put it. I mean, Rose is a good player, formerly great player. And he

fits best, in my opinion right now on a team that's obviously trying to win, right? So when the majority of your young talent that plays a primary role in your rebuild is coming off the bench, and they're playing with Derek Rose, who has the mentality of score, score, score at all costs, not much of a facilitator right now at this point in this career. It makes a lot of sense to move them, and it makes a lot of sense to move them right now. And I like Tommy that you said that we're doing right by Rose, and I completely agree. It's kind of a trend in Detroit right now. You just saw it with Matthew Stafford going to the Rams.

You know, when you have a great player who's earned the right to kind of choose the path that their career is set to take, I think it's a classic. move to to get their input on where they're traded because I think that only reflects well on the organization. So I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. And hey, if this was 2019, I would be so fired up about Dennis Smith Jr. And even in 2021, I mean, I'm excited to see what he's got. He's been underwhelming his first two games.

But then again, point guards the hardest position to play in basketball. I don't think there's any debate there. So we'll see what he looks like when he gets his feet under him. But overall, good trade. I'd give it an A probably. I'm not grading them, but if I was. I give the trade of B just for the return. I agree with both of you guys that, you know,

and that you've said that Rose was done a solid and sent where he wanted to go. I don't know. Who knows? I mean, I can't say exactly what the benefits would be of establishing that reputation. Maybe they're good. You know, it's, it's just, it's hard to gauge. I'd say impossible to gauge exactly what the benefits of that would be versus maybe the opportunity to gain a little bit more in the way of assets.

Now, of course, we don't know what the other offers were. We do know that there were other teams that were interested. The Clippers were interested. And I think there were a couple other teams listed. I can't remember. Now, if the Pistons passed up a substantively better offer for the sake of sending Rose where he wanted to go, that's something of which I would not really be quite as much of a fan.

I don't think he was ever going to garner more than like a couple of second round picks. who knows maybe weeper was also just very high in dennismith junior whatever the case i do absolutely agree was addition by subtraction bros is he can't play in a system he very much is just a give me a pick and i'm going to go attack the basket kind of player it's very straightforward and i don't know if dwayne casey ever tried to dissuade him of that i really doubt it dwayne casey really respects his veterans and just kind of lets them play the way they want to play that was in of an issue in Toronto and particularly with Tamara Rosen. And I think could just as easily have been the situation in this case.

If so, I think that's really a shame in the failure of coaching. But I think the Knicks are a great situation for him because the way I see Rose, he becomes less useful, the better the team is. If you're a really good team that can have good players on the floor at all times, it's really not beneficial to you and run a successful offense. offensive scheme. It's not beneficial to you to put the ball in bros his hands and just let him play the way he wants. So the Knicks apparently have playoff aspirations. They don't have a great bench. And I don't think they'll make the playoffs. I mean, I think they're eighth in the east right now

with the sub 500 record. And they've, I think, managed eighth because of this hilarious statistical anomaly whereby their opponents are shooting a horrible percentage on wide open threes. It's just a complete statistical aberration. But I think it's a great situation for Rose and he gets to play with Tom Dibodeau who has coached. He's played for Tom Thibodeau on three different teams now. So, yeah. And also, Rose has been on 100% of the teams that Tom Thibodeau is coached. Yeah, I think, I don't remember who it was, some prominent, you know, NBA, Twitter and, you know,

I'm the analyst on Twitter said, you know, find the coach who loves you like Tom Dibodeo loves Derek Rose. So, yeah, Dennis Smith, Jr., I mean, we'll see. He was one of the worst players in the league last season. He didn't, you know, make him the rotation this season. He was fairly good as a rookie. He looked promising decent in his,

what I believe was his second season. And, you know, we'll see. Incredibly athletic. A funny story about him. He actually tore his ACL in high school, and he knew it, and he got home, and he didn't have any pain or swelling. And the doctors, when they went in, found out that he's one of a small percentage of people who has two ACLs. So he didn't actually suffer any loss of athleticism as a result. So super athletic, not the greatest necessarily point guard things, like passing, you know, like running an offense and making those kind of elite passes, not the greatest jump shooter.

So we'll see how it goes. it's always exciting to see it that you know a potential good young talents maybe the business can be claimed so anything to add on on the rose trade dennis smith junior i would just go back to the uh the one thing about you know you don't really know what teams are thinking in terms of like doing a player right there was one story that stuck with me like maybe a year ago when anthony davis was like trying to find his next team after the pelicans the celtics were one of the teams that was reportedly interested. I mean, every team is going to be interested in Anthony Davis.

But Anthony Davis's father went on ESPN and was like, nope, my son is not playing for Boston. Do you see what they did to Isaiah Thomas? So stuff like that, I think it does kind of sit in the back of their minds. So that's one of the, I mean, for a pretty low impact move, I think gaining that reputation is important as being a player-focused organization that. Yeah. Players talk. Players talk. They know what's going on.

And I'm sure they're all in constant. Well, not all of them, but I'm sure a large contingency of players are in pretty regular communication. And so they hear through the grapevine, like which organizations do right by their players and which organizations don't. That's not just the NBA. That's all the major sports leagues, honestly. So I couldn't agree more.

And you know what, Rose has earned the right, in my opinion, with a career like his and having to face the adversity that he's faced. to say, hey, I would prefer to go here. And we already knew that he had a good relationship with the Pistons front office. So this to me is, even if there was a slightly better offer on the table, I would think that that's outweighed by the positive or the good look that we're getting by sending Rose where he wants to go. It should be noted that Anthony Davis did come out himself and say that Boston was on, quote, unquote,

the list of the list of teams with which he would resign, rather. You know, who knows, you know, who knows if he was being up front or not. But yeah, I mean, it's entirely possible. This is just one of those intangibles. You never know what kind of impact it'll have. You know, maybe we'll have a positive impact. I think it just have to measure that against what the return might have been from another team. And who knows, maybe this was one of the best returns they could have gotten.

It's worth mentioning also that Weaver kind of did a solid to the nuggets in allowing them to trade, to send a grant and a sign-in trade and thereby gain a trade. exception in the realm of any nine and a half million dollars that was basically just to sell it to the nuggets the pistons what they got out of that was the draft rights to nicole raditchevitch i believe is how you pronounce his name who is a i think was drafted like five years ago and uh is not good in europe he was obviously never going to come over to the united states and do anything for the pistons they just you know if you want to if you want to make a trade you have to send over either cash considerations or picks or pick swaps or draft rights.

So they sent over the draft rights, the nuggets to do a player who's never coming to the United States. So in that situation, it's all that weaver was buying was goodwill. And who knows, maybe that will get, maybe that will help somehow. Okay. So let's move on, talk about Sadiq Bay, as mentioned a big game last night. Tommy, you are a huge fan of Sadiq Bay, once you take it away. Absolutely. I'd be comfortable starting him. I'm honestly more thrilled that he's been closing in the closing lineups for a few games. I think that speaks to the trust that Casey has in him. He's still playing within himself, forcing absolutely nothing. He's learning to recognize when he has a mismatch and he takes it inside. And that's really helping with this two-point percentage. And beyond that, he's making these smart cuts to receive dump-off passes. He's just expanding his game rapidly. And of course, he's getting his three-point shot back. And I'm really happy to see that he's getting a more defined role in the offense, and I hope that continues. Because after some

inconsistent minutes and that DNP, I really seemed to do a number on his three-point shooting. I think he was kind of rushing his shot a little bit, and I don't think, you know, you don't want that at all. We talked, I don't know if it was on the podcast or just talking about how Greg Kelser on the broadcast said, you know, one of the worst things for your confidence is playing some minutes here, then not playing and then playing some more. I think that was pretty obviously the struggle that Bay was having, because we know he's a great three-point shooter. So I'm really glad that he seems to be getting his touchback. And I really don't think he's going to get the starting spot anytime soon. It just doesn't seem like the sort of thing that Casey would do, but he's making

a case for it. And I think he could easily be the fourth best player on a championship team. You know, he has a very complete game. He doesn't need the ball very much. And he just continues to grow and add to his game. Love watching him. Yeah, he, Bay is just, he's a wonderful player, man. Like, it has been such a joy to watch him, and especially for a franchise that has been severely lacking and exciting young talent.

Like, this is a guy who it becomes more and more apparent, the more games we watch him play consistent minutes, that he's going to be a very valuable player. for a very long time. And at first, you know, when we first drafted him, I remember I knew about him prior to us drafting him, but I looked into it a little bit more. And I was like, okay, like, you can play some defense. He's a good three-point shooter. Like, he'll probably be a valuable player.

But if last night is any indication, this guy's got quite the ceiling. And he seems like an absolutely great kid from all of the interviews that I've seen and the articles that I've read. And he's got all the tools that are necessary to really, make a leap and become more than just a role player, like a very good player on a very good team. So I'm with you, Tommy. I think he's excellent. I think it's been a privilege to watch him.

And I totally agree with you that he should be starting. He is so much better than Wayne Ellington. It's not even funny. But then again, this is Casey. Casey's not probably not going to deviate from his veterans when he doesn't have to. And honestly, you'd think that a game like last night's would be. forcing Casey's hand, but I don't see Casey making any substantive changes either, even though Bay has more than earned the right to play a ton of minutes on this team.

So those are my thoughts. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, what was said on the broadcast by George Blaha and Greg Kelzer, Calcer was noting that, you I didn't really care in the NBA if he came off the bench or started as long as he was getting, you know, the same minutes or consistent minutes. and Blaha said, yeah, it's really hard if you're playing 20 minutes one game and only five to six minutes the next. And Kelsa said, yeah, that's the worst. And I don't think that they realized they were effectively criticizing Dwayne Casey on the air.

I don't think that was their intent. But they were because that's exactly what happened with Bay. It's happened to other players too. So as far as Bay is concerned, yeah, great to see. clearly very high character player. We've heard the same thing about all of Weaver's draftees. West so about Sabin Lee, but we just haven't heard very much about him.

He really hasn't gotten to play. So not that we haven't heard good things. It's just we haven't heard things. So it's certainly very clear that Bay is a high character player. Last night, it was said that, you know, after the game, he was actually getting in a workout, you know, after putting up the, certainly the best game of his short career

and leading his team in points. I think he was tied with KCP for the most points scored by a rookie. Not that I want to comp anybody to KCP, because the guy was completely infuriating as Blair in Detroit, just comically, comically inconsistent. But in any event, I digress. So, yeah, clearly very high character, same way as Isaiah Stewart, by all accounts,

same way as Killing Hayes. And I don't think, so here's what I think about Bay. Bay has it within him certainly to be an elite three-point shooter. It's got a wonky release, but it works. And defensively speaking, I think one thing last night showed is he does still have a way to go. I mean, he got cut up by Tatum, which is not anything to be ashamed of for a rookie. But so, and I think he'll probably, I don't think he'll ever be particularly good player within the arc just because he doesn't really have the explosiveness or the lift. That said, what Tommy and I talked about a lot,

their time in particular in draft and draft previews, is that Bay has other things, which he is useful on defense, you know, finding good lanes to baskets, running the pick and roll a little bit, making the right pass. He always makes the right pass.

These are things, I think, would be better exploited by a coach who is more detail-oriented. Casey is not detail-oriented on offense. He just sends his players out there, and that's that. So, you know, it said he doesn't even run plays.

That's what I mean. He just comes up with his office. offense and that's that. So it's involving Sadiq into the offense a little bit more. They had him on the weeks in the weak side corner kind of as like a bailout option in case, you know, if it was Jeremy or the lawn driving to the basket, they get stuck. They could pass it to him. I'm happy that they're kind of bringing him into the offense.

They're having him run some screens and kind of move on the perimeter. I don't like him in the corner. I don't know the stats on this, but I feel like he does shoot worse from the corner than he does from like the wing. I'd prefer to keep him there. he's such a good three-point shoot you have to like make use of that i don't like keeping him just in the corner for the sake of improving the spacing i think that there are other guys you can do that with no 100% yep for sure he's got to be running around getting open because even if you were

watching last night it's not as if he's making wide open corner threes all day like this dude was was hitting nothing but net with hands right in his face i honestly god thought that half those threes were going to be blocked and he somehow got them off so he mike you say you added in him to be an elite three point shooter i would even argue that he is an exceptional three point shooter right now and if the pistons want to win which i know you know we don't want them to win too much but clearly duen casey wants them to win i'm sure troy weaver doesn't mind if they went off the backs of their young players they ought to find ways to get cidique more involved in more creative ways but that hasn't been the case thus far and it you know and it took a prolific shooting night for

for Sadiq to kind of carve out his role, unfortunately. So unless Casey starts adjusting here, I'm scared that games like these are going to be pure anomalies and we're not going to see many more of them for the rest of the season. So that's my concern. And then the other point I wanted to touch on Mike was, you mentioned how he didn't have the greatest lift, but I mean,

that Tomahawk dunk last night. That surprised me. I didn't think he had that at him and he just yammed it. Like, it was crazy. And if he can get the ball in transition and go up strong like that, Like, that's a harder dunk than I've ever seen from Isaiah Stewart. So, Sadiq's got some athleticism to him that might not be apparent when you first watch him. But if he can kind of, you know, tap into that and put that in his tool bag, or his tool belt, rather, he's got the makings of a really, really good player that can do a lot more than just shoot threes.

So that's where I stand. I agree with that. The issue, so he's got some lift. He does not have an explosive first step. You see when he drives into the interior. it's generally kind of wonky and there's a lot of turning and, you know, posting up and whatnot. He's not polished. I don't think it's not so much that it's not polished.

In my opinion, I think he just doesn't really have the burst to beat guys off the dribble in the NBA. And the NCAA, even, it was often just that he was, he was, he's big and strong by NCAA standards. He was just able to bully guys. You know, one of the concerns in, I know, I know going to the NBA was what he was what he, he would be able to do within the arc. So, but I think, like I said, I think this is a, it's a high IQ player who's going to be able to take advantage of open lanes who's going to be able to participate as a passer and so on and so forth.

And like you both said, he's just gotten shoved off to the periphery. He's been nothing but a spot up shooter for the most part. Or Casey clearly is included in the game plan. Why don't you try some offense within the arc? And I don't think that's really the way to maximize what Sadiq Bay can do. But as far as the shooting, yeah, it's worth noting he was one of the best shooters in the country in the NCAA in his sophomore season there in his final season there he shot uh and sure you have you know aside from the side from the corners you have a short of three point line it's closer

with a basket in the NCAA but nonetheless when the guy shot 45% and five and a five and a half attempts per game in 31 games i mean that's he's he's already an excellent shooter uh Tommy you asked about the corners uh he's actually shot his best from the left corner he's shot fairly off in the right corner what's really great is shooting 41% from above the break so important to be able to shoot well from above the break. I mean, that's such a vital component of effectively spacing the floor. There are some guys who are only good from the corners, and that really sharply reduces your utility.

Yeah, a rough stretch that he had when he was kind of, like you said, like a second thought on the offense, I feel like he wasn't shooting very well, because that's pretty much where he was parked for most of the games, and he would get it and put it up pretty much immediately. I felt like he was a little bit out of rhythm. And then I just want to say going back to like the two-point shooting thing and beating guys off the dribble, when he has the mismatch, he did do that a few times last night. I know at least at one point he initiated contact and drove in on somebody. And it was a smaller guard.

I don't think he could do that against guys as size like Jalen Brown or Tatum. But, you know, when he has the mismatch, it seems like he can put enough together to get to the rim. Sort of. I mean, he's shooting only 52% in a restricted area. So far, it's on less than 30 attempts. so that's a tiny sample size. But he's just got a way to go. But, I mean, honestly, I mean, I don't know where the defense is.

He's a smart defender. He needs to, in my opinion, more than to compensate for the fact that he doesn't have an explosive first step. So that's just going to be a matter of intelligence. I mean, like I said, he just got sliced apart by Tatum a few times last night. And that's, again, nothing to be ashamed of Tatum is one of the best, one of the best forwards and the best and the best basketball league in the world. He's incredibly athletic and he's a fantastic score. But it's just,

the base seems to, by some very explosive players, get caught a little bit flat-footed. But he's a smart player. I've no doubt he'll work to improve. I think if you have a guy who can shoot three at an elite level, who can participate as a pass or do a degree,

who's just very smart on offense, and you have a coach who's able to maximize that and you can play a good defense, then sure, you know, you might have a reliable starter on a good team. It's been nice to see him get some. some opportunities to shoot her on screens. It's like, what you said, Tommy is true.

He basically got no opportunity to do anything but stand still and shoot for like the first 20 games in season. And just being DMPed for no reason, that's that I could say, they're having his minutes slashed and then being DMPed and whatnot is puzzling. We never heard anything about it. And I have no doubt that that would throw any player off the rhythm. So I don't agree that he's got a really high ceiling. But if you've got a player who can do those things, you can play defense at a good level,

shoot an elite level and just make good decisions with the ball. then, you know, even just in a vacuum, that's a fantastic value on the number 19 pick. And at the very least, you've got a solid rotation player and a good team. Definitely. So, yeah, it was good to see. And I think, yeah, we're certainly obviously in agreement that hope to see, hope that he continues to get those opportunities and concern that they will just go away for no reason. That behalf of a coach who has always made some puzzling decisions along this lines.

Do you guys, do you guys want to talk about him being benched for like three minutes in the fourth quarter? Because I was wondering if I missed something, why he was just taken out and then put back in with like two minutes to go. Because that to me is just inexplicable. Like, and I know I've, yeah, he got put back in with three minutes, three or so minutes to go of the third quarter, right? Something like that. And then it, well, it's just to me that kind of, and I, and again, I don't want to just turn this into bash Casey, bash Casey. but I've spoken on this before, just coming from like a competitive sports background, there really isn't a substitute.

Whether you got the best, it doesn't matter if you have the best player development staff in the world, there's no substitute for real in-game experience. Like no scrimmage, no drill is ever going to replicate that. So to me, Sadiq ended the half, you know, burning hot. He was incredible. I think he had like 19 points at that time. And in my opinion, a truly good coach is going to recognize, that his young player, his rookie, is having an absolute superstar night.

And to me, you got to let him revel in that a little bit and be like, okay, now that I'm the guy right now, the defense is going to focus on me, I'm carrying the offense. How am I going to respond to what's going to be thrown at me in the second half? Am I going to keep it up or am I going to fall apart? Like, am I going to start making good passes or am I going to keep turning them all over? Like there are a lot of questions that need to be answered when a young player gets off to a start like that. And when you yank them until two minutes left in the third quarter, you don't give them the chance to play through those quandaries, if that makes sense. You don't let them develop their

responses to being put in those situations. I hope I'm making sense right now. But it just defies all logic to me that someone can have a game like that and then still get inconsistent minutes in the second half. It doesn't make any sense. I don't really know what else to say about it other than it just baffled me. And I know he had a career high 30. I bet he could have had 40 shooting the way that he was. So it was frustrating. Yeah, it was frustrating.

And this is just something that Dwayne Casey does. It's put it that way. It's just something that Dwayne Casey does and he always has done. And he's not, when it comes to a young player who is doing really well, Casey is not likely to ride the hot hands. It did remind me a little bit of a game back in 2017. I don't want to compare it, Dwayne Casey to Stan Van Gundy. not because I don't think they have some things in common,

just because I don't want to have any association between Stan Van Gundy and the Troy business. But Van Gundy was absolutely horrible at riding the hot hands or making any deviations from his game plan, and no matter what. And Tobias Harris was like 7 for 7 from 3 in the first half. And in the second half, I mean, it's like, Stan, don't you think you should just ride the hot hands?

Nope, just sticks with his game plan, which had, Tobias is basically like often the tertiary option be down beyond his guards. So yeah, and then I believe that was the night Reggie Jackson broke his ankle. Not a good game.

So the Pistons won, but whatever. Not broke. He did a great three sprain in his ankle that derailed that season and ultimately led to Blake Griffin ending up on the team. So, out of the trade.

Whatever the case. Yeah, it was, it was irritating to me also. That's just something that you got to book with Dwayne Casey. who I think is just not going to, who has his ideas and is not going to deviate from them very easily. All right. So let's move on to another rookie who has made strides. We've talked about Isaiah Stewart a lot over the last three weeks, certainly.

I think I always enjoy talking about him. It's certainly very enjoyable to watch him. And for me, you know, I've said that it'd be a good pick if he can, if he can switch and he can shoot three as and what. whatnot. And I'll just put it this way. I mean, it's become very hard for me to predict exactly where he's going to go in the NBA. So I'm going to stop trying to know as far as what his ceiling is. But yeah, Tommy, I know you've, you mentioned that you think he's made a lot of strides. Yeah, I think it was what last week where I said, yeah, I still think in the NBA he's probably

still a career backup where that's his best role. And I feel like he's kind of changing my mind. I still don't know. I'm not really worried about the file prone thing. I think that's just going to come with experience. The main thing for me is can he be part of like a really good pick and roll duo? I think it would take some work around of his lack of verticality. But, you know, there were some moments where he just kind of makes up for it with just effort and like he moves so quickly. There was one possession. I forget, it might have been against the Pacers where there were two defenders trying to trap Blake Griffin in the corner, and he did thread the past to Isaiah.

And as soon as Isaiah got, it's like if you blinked, you would have missed him going up and dunk in it with like all the energy in the world. There's just so much ferocity to him. And I think he's kind of helping redefine who this team is and giving them an identity. He's playing so, so hard. I know that a lot of people make jokes about like, oh, well, if you didn't know who Isaiah as Stewart was or if the opposing center didn't know who he was, they know him now because he's a fighter. And I would love to see, you know, especially now that he's learned to shoot threes, I would love

to see them kind of work around the lack of above the rim play and turn him into a starter because I think his energy is infectious and the way that he's able to beat guys down the floor. There was one possession, I think, he blocks a bonus under the rim. And he was still somehow the first guy down the floor and he ended up finishing push a head pass by Josh Jackson. He's just incredibly fun to watch. And I really hope that he proves me wrong. If he can be the starter and there's no issues there, I'd be so happy. I love watching Isaiah Stewart.

And we talk about it. Yeah, Tommy. No, go ahead. Go ahead. That's it. Go ahead. I just love watching him. No, I was just going to say, I think we had talked about

this either on last week's podcast or the week before. But yeah, I don't believe taking a backup center with your first round pick, like a top 20 pick is like if their ceiling is a backup center, I think it was bad. And I don't want to believe that that's what Weaver was going for. So I think he envisions him as a starter for sure. And I mean, that three that he ripped, was it against Brooklyn that he hit the three? I don't remember. But it was like gorgeous.

And if he can keep that up, like, yeah, he's a valuable starter who can space the floor a little bit while playing hopefully eventually elite defense on the other side. I would take it a step further. I don't know if either you guys are going to agree with me. I know we were talking about this a little bit, a little bit before we started recording, but I think he's better than Plumlee. Like I do. And I don't, I think the plan is for him to to take Plumlee's spot before too long here. Now, I don't know if Casey's going to do that, but I think he's more than earned the right. I think he's a better player. I don't, I know we've had it out over Plumley a couple times. and we can do it right now if you want but yeah i think steward just offers more

um that's that's that's that's and he's super fun to watch too plumley's not fun to watch for me let's move on let's move on to plumley make your case let's do it all right so my first the first evidence that the prosecution would like to well let me read the charges first so i'm i'm going to charge mason plumley with not being that good those are the charges it's a it's an indictable offense and the evidence that i would like to cite um The evidence that I would like to cite in bringing that case is that I believe the vast, vast, vast majority of Plumley's counting stats are accrued simply by being there, by showing up and having a pulse. Because Dwayne Casey literally came out and said, I can't even believe it. Mason is the quarterback of our team.

And it's like, well, at that time, your team had the worst record in the NBA. So how good of a quarterback is he? He's not. If Plumley is the one who's putting up the big stats on your team, who's running the offense, who's the quarterback, and your team has that record, he's not a very good player. Now, I don't want to make the case that Plumley's bad because I don't think he's bad, but I think he's a bit overrated by not necessarily you guys, but I think a contingency of Pistons fans who might not watch the games and just look at the box score,

and they're like, oh, Plumley's got 13 points and 12 rebounds and four assists. Like, he's really good. He was a good pickup. No, no, I don't think so. I think he gets those stats because he showed up. he showed up and and that's it so you feel free to rebut but that that's my case i'm going to leave it at that for now until closing statements well this is kind of awkward because it's not that i don't i don't disagree with you i just my thing is i'm not mad that he's starting because i think that

he's doing the exact thing that he was brought here to do like i think it was jane i mean this isn't some crazy concept if you're a tanking team the gm is supposed to assemble a team that's not going to win games and I partially think that that's why Plumley is here. He's the last line of defense. And there was a quote from Media Day. I think I have it here. I think we all agree. He's not a good defender. He's not a particularly good rebounder. And one of the things that Weaver said is he was talking about the importance of rebounding. And the quote is, it's the number one thing I look at. Controlling the backboard, if you control the backboard, you're going to win a high percentage of your games. That's going to be a big emphasis. We expect to see an uptick there.

Plumley doesn't rebound all that well. I think that he's here specifically because he's going to help us lose games. Does Casey know that? Like, do you think, like, is Casey in on it? I just thought it was, I was laughing when you were talking because he's our starting center. And you're like, well, he doesn't play great defense and he doesn't rebound that well. And it's like, oh, that's it. That's all he doesn't do well.

But I don't know. I don't know if Casey is, I'm not saying I disagree with you, Tommy, but I don't know if Casey sees it the way that you do. I think that Casey thinks that Plumley gives us the best chance to win when he's starting at center. I fully believe that. I don't know what Weaver thinks, but I know that's what Casey thinks. So given that, yeah, I disagree with him.

I disagree with him. I think Stewart offers a little bit more right now, infinitely more on defense, and he's a lot more springy on offense. Plumley doesn't have a great vertical either, and he's not much of a, he's caught a couple lobs, but I mean, so is Stewart. So really it's kind of a wash there. And if all that Mason can offer right now that Stewart doesn't is like three assists a game, four assists a game, when he still turns the ball over a couple times too pretty badly.

It's like at that point, it's not much of a contest over who's the better player. So I think we disagree a little bit less than we thought we did. And I respect your arguments. But at the end of the day, like if you want to get it done in the court of law, you can't start your rebuttal by saying you agree with someone. So that was a blunder on your part there. That's why I'm not in law. Here's the thing. I agree with the prosecution.

The judge would throw it right out. No, yeah. As you started to go on it, I was like, oh, well, we actually kind of agree. That's awkward. But no, like, here's the thing. I agree with you. There are some frustrating aspects to Plumley's game. His catch radius is small.

He's not a great rebounder. He's taking minutes from Stewart. But I think it's by design. So I can't get mad at Casey because, or I can't get mad at Weaver because I want us to lose games. You know, if Plumley is the reason that we're losing games, I'm okay with that because how do you practice, you know, efficient offense and passing the ball well and still lose games? Like, how do you play well and still lose? You need to lose the possessions game. And I think that's kind of where the rebounding differential comes into play.

Because if you, even if you're playing a little bit better than the other team, even if you're shooting well, even if your offense looks good, if the other team is getting more possessions than you, there's a good chance. there's a good chance you're still going to lose. So, like, I know we've kind of talked about, like, is Weaver like a genius? This is one of those things where it's like, wow, maybe he's like really thought this through really well. And I think that's part of, I know it's crazy. It's like that tinfoil hat idea, but I don't think. That would be absolute galaxy brain level. Yeah, that would be like pure galaxy brain from Weaver, you know, if he was like so advanced in his thinking that he's like, okay, here's what I'm

going to do. I'm going to draft a center top 20. He's going to be better than this guy that I'm about to sign. However, my coach is going to start the inferior center and therefore we're going to lose games. If that's what's actually going on, then we have some masterminds in Little Caesar's Arena. Okay. So I hope you're right, man. I do. I do. I hope you're right. And you make some good points too. So this was a successful case overall. I think Plumley's going to, you might have to take a plea bargain. he doesn't take away from the development of like the people around him he just he keeps the ball moving it's not like drummond where like he would you know demand his possessions and his touches and he was just

no he's not like drummond yeah yeah he's not like drummond he's played next to he's just not that good so he's keeping us from winning too many games but he's not hurting development yeah that's why i'm like pretty okay with what's happening and i think that case he's one of those coaches who really hates like the rookie mistakes, like those, like the foul proneness that Isaiah Stewart, you know, has. I think that really frustrates Casey. That's probably the reason he's not starting. That's probably the reason that he didn't get into the late game situation when we need a defense.

I think that's like Plumley, they kind of know the game better and they're a little bit more reliable, I'd say. I think, I don't know. I mean, the way these guys are improving, I can't be too mad at Casey right now. Well, Plumley's face some foul trouble too. Like Plumley, Plumley is not great staying out of foul trouble. Didn't he foul out of three consecutive games earlier? I think it was something like that.

Yeah, something like that. He actually, he actually foul, he and Stewart fouled at a roughly comparable rate. Oh, that is really good evidence for me. That's what's called the smoking gun. Yeah, 5.5.3 fouls per 36 versus for Mason Plumley, it's 4.6. So it's not too far apart. Let me break in here. I don't think, so Plumley,

probably aside from his passing, he's pretty unremarkably. He's done a good job of his passing lately, but you've got a guy who is not athletic enough really to defend on switches. He's not a, he's an average rim protector at his best. He can't space the floor. He's, I'd say, a guy who's out there, aside from his passing, he does work hard.

He's a character guy, clearly, aside from his passing, I mean, he's a guy who's racking up counting stats and not good counting stats because he's out there. I mean, he's playing about 27 and a half minutes per game. He's averaging about 10 points and 9 rebounds. That is what it is. I'm not convinced he's worse than Stewart right now. It's certainly a ceiling is lower. I think the advantage that comes of starting Plumley and letting Stewart come off the bench.

It gives you more control over the situations in which you're playing Stewart. He might actually get to participate more in the offense when he's not playing next to Griffin. And it does when it comes to foul as and just learning. I mean, I don't think it's a bad situation that he's coming off the bench right now. I do think it will be a bad situation if he continues to develop quite a bit in this season. He's still coming off the bench behind Plumley. I think Plumley is a pretty mediocre player. I don't think he was brought in for three years and at the cost of stretching $4 million of salary over the next three.

years and $3 million over the next two years for the sake of being a bad center. You can easily get somebody who's going to be bad and not pay him anywhere near that amount of money and not stretch any salary at all. So clearly we were really wanted the guy in particular. But, you know, it's just he's here. Seems to be a good presence. Has he been actually good, I would say not really. And I don't think you'll really have a very easy time trading the guy at any stage.

he's a traditional big and a multi-year contract. And in the last year of his contract, he's kind of straight-kicker. He's going to be making about $10 million against the cap. It's a good luck. But I'm not dissatisfied with the way things are going. As long as Stewart plays about half the minutes, I'm fine. You know, I don't feel too strongly about Plumley one way or the other.

I do respect him for how he tries on a possession-by-possession basis. Well, thank you, Your Honor. I appreciate that. Yeah, maybe I don't think the judge is supposed to present that much of an opinion. This would probably cause a mistrial, wouldn't it? They're not supposed to give an opinion at all until the end. So this was a weird trial. I think.

Yeah, we kind of did it to fly. Yeah, we might have to revisit this later because I declared a mistrial right now. Yeah, absolutely. You had the defense agree with the prosecution. I mean, that's... Yeah, first thing. His opening statement was, wow, you know what? I actually agree with me

that was pretty yeah yeah it's more like my defendant did commit this crime however even for guilty plea

I think that would be highly you know that something would be seriously wrong there yeah so yeah that's where we stand

with Plumley one last thing to talk about before Tommy it goes into draft stuff Wayne Ellington who for quite some time was of course very good for the Pistons.

It was finally started to be given defensive attention. Starting with the game against the Warriors, teams have just been closely defending him all, so he regressed. I have no doubt from an obscene percentage that was more than 20% above his career average. He has now made three-three-pointers in his last five games, and he shot 12% from three and 22% from the floor,

and it's been absolutely terrible. It was inevitable he'd regress. is inevitable that teams would give him more attention. Both have happened. And now he's Wayne Ellington again, the guy who was at on a minimum contract to be a locker room presence and somewhat of a floor spacer. Yeah, I know.

Who would you guys replace Ellington with in the starting lineup? I think Jackson is playing ball off the bench. That may just be his ideal role. I don't know. Do you think that Sadiq Bay is fit to play at shooting guard? Yeah, so I would start Sadiq Bay. I think that he has probably the highest ceiling out of the guys that we have on the wing rotation. And with his three-point shooting, I think his form is fairly compact and replicable.

And if you run the plays that you're running for Ellington, you know, getting him open, getting him off these screens, I think we're starting to see a little bit more of it. I hope Casey gives him more. And even though, like I said before earlier, I don't expect him to start. I'd be fine with him starting. And I think that I would not be surprised at all if by the end of the year he's the starter just because he seems like he is capable of that. And if you get him, if you get a shooter like that,

decent looks, I think he has a really good chance of converting most of them. Who would you go with? I'm not sure, really. To be honest, let's put it this way. I think Josh Jackson is just going to be best in general coming off the bench in the long term. He's a guy who really likes to attempt offense on volume for better or worse.

And I think if you can get him to, take the right shots, then you've got a player who's probably going to be pretty able as a bench flamethrower. I think that's his ideal role. He's a willing passer, which is nice. He's a bad passer right now. It's not quite as nice, but it doesn't really matter at the moment. Hopefully you can improve on that. He's a much, much, much more willing passer than he used to be. What you'd say about Bay right now, though, I mean, do you think he's really, not to say that Ellington is a good option on defense or in general, but you think Bay is really, you think Bay is really, well suited to defend on the perimeter, you know, against guards.

Yes. I know that he's maybe had some rough showings, but I still believe in his IQ and his potential there. Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to this new system, you know, better athletes. But Sadiq Bey is a locked-in defender. He's always moving his head. There was like a few possessions where he gets, you know, caught staring at the ball or something like that.

But he just positions his body very well. He picks his angles. I believe in Sadiq Bay. as a very good defender. I'm not worried about that right now. Yeah, like I said earlier, he did have trouble against Tatum in particular. I can't decide if the players against Tumi

is going to have more trouble on defense or those who are quicker or those who are just stronger. And I think it actually may be the latter. So if you can manage to stay in front, you know, to use his smarts and it's just his foot movement to stay in front of guards, then sure, yeah, who knows? Maybe the wing maybe his ideal position.

I don't think it's entirely possible. We'll find out that he's just not super suited to deal with guys who are physically overpowering and fast. We really hadn't saw much of that until, I hadn't seen rather much of that until he faced off against Tatum last night. And again, you know, a rookie facing off against Jason Tatum is what it is. I mean, Tatum is even better than I thought he would be coming into the league. He's just, he's just evolved into it, just a fantastic player. And he and Brown are a scary combination. So.

Yeah, if you think it's a strength thing, then I think the shooting guard is a good position for him. That might be his ideal fit. It could be, yeah, and that this gives him, you know, if you, I mean, obviously, if you, if, you know, we're looking way ahead. But if you, it depends on who you draft. But, you know, it could be a viable small forward. It's just, I know earlier on in the season on the member, I think, I recall you saying, you know, this is not to say, oh, you know, do you think you were wrong, though? But I know you initially thought that he would be better suited to, you know, play up from small forward to power forward,

but you think now he might be a better fit playing down the lineup instead? Or do you think maybe he'd just be a decent three-position player? I think just keeping him on the perimeter, defending perimeter-oriented players, like you said, I think it's his foot speed is the biggest issue. He picks his angles well to kind of compensate for it. But, you know, kind of one of the main things, capping is ceiling. is the fact that he's just not the best at moving. He's more of a smart defender paired with pretty good physical ability.

So I guess it's something you would want to play around with. If he's a better defender at the two, that's fine. He's like 6'8, pretty well built. I think that's closer to a small forward size, but if the two is his better fit, that's more than fine with me. Yeah, it would give him the ability also to, it would mitigate some of his issues within the arc on the offensive end. If you can play him at shooting guard and have him face off against, you know,

a lot of guys who will be, you know, a few inches shorter. Though, I mean, size of the shooting guard has really exploded, of course, over the past five years. But, like Rip Hamilton in his time as a 6-8 shooting guard, I mean, there were very, very few guys at the position who were as tall as he was. Reggie Miller was one of them. the Reggie Miller, I think, played, I might be wrong. I don't remember if he played a goodly amount of small forward or not, whatever the case.

Yeah, I mean, Bay at shooting guard would be pretty oversized an offense that would allow them against a lot of opposing shooting guards to actually, to actually try to physically bully them, and maybe that would mitigate his lack of ability to really attack off the triple. That is something I think you, I know you would agree with this. He really needs to work on. It needs to find some way to use his smarts to actually remain on the drive rather than just kind of, move in and then try to, you know, back somebody up. But I would also like to, you know, I think as I said under a different coach, I think you would have had more opportunities, for example, to use his IQ to get behind the defense

from off the ball. But, yeah, as far as whom I would start right now, I don't know, it's a little bit of a difficult question. I mean, Ellington, I don't want to see Ellington really playing many or any minutes at all if he doesn't have to. Svi has struggled. I think maybe, I mean, you just play, you just start starting Svi at shooting guard. I mean, he did really well with the additional responsibility last season.

He's going to get murdered on defense no matter what. Maybe you play up a straight value a little bit. The guy's not going to get you more than a couple second round picks, tops even performing how he was last season. But, you know, who knows? Maybe you can get him back on track. If it's not, you know, I would give B. a shot at it because why not? I think that would be good. But if you're not going to do that,

then yeah, I would hand it to Svi. Or maybe to Svetus, I know that the Pistons have an agreement with the rest of the league that they're just going to move them out slowly so they don't completely destroy competitive integrity right away. You know, doing the Brono solid. Yeah, it's just like, you know, they want the games to at least be competitive. If you put subetus and then it's like a 30, 40. point one every night that's really bad for ratings across the league. Everybody else

gives up. And yeah, this is a, this is a completely neither here nor there, but I'm not entirely sure what is going to happen with Davida Servetus. I mean, he's a guy, sure you effectively threw away the 30th, you know, 30th pick for cash. You use some of that cash to buy

Jordan Bone, who's, you know, already off the team, whatever that is what it is. You've got four second round picks. One of them is effectively worthless, but you basically use, I believe, three of those to move up and take Cervetus. And now he is on a standard NBA contract, taking up a contract spot. I don't really know what his future is. There have been some allegations that he was selected and sort of just out of a means of cronyism, because he is represented by the son of Arantellum, who is one of the top executives in the organization. So it's like, okay,

Well, assuming 10% agent fees, and I don't know if that's a thing anymore, Arunelam's son is about $90,000 richer this season. Is Servita actually going to get to play? And what is his future with this organization? Yeah, that's a curious situation. It's a very curious situation. And you left some potentially decent players on the board. I don't know if KZi Akpala is going to go anywhere.

But who knows? And, you know, what you do in that situation? You don't have to have another guaranteed NBA contract. In that case, if you think you have a player who can really be good, you eat it and you don't sign Tim Frazier. You know, sure. You don't, you know, third, you know, third string point guard, but in that case, you know,

you're pointing on maybe giving Bruce Brown some reps anyway. Nobody's expecting that Reggie's going to be injured, but you started, basically, if you think that Bruce Brown can do something, you're starting the season with four point guards on the roster. Now, I've said this, like, you know, Calvin Johnson, who I put out is a possible pick for the Pistons, has actually been quite good for the spurs.

The spurs are the spurs. and spurs are excellent at developing talent. So who knows where that would go, but he was 29th. I would have hoped that they were looking into trading off to potentially select him. If they had done this with him on the board, I would have been incandescent. That would have been completely absurd, and that's a situation where you look and say, this is something is fishy. And even though Kevin Porter Jr., apparently just self-destructed, it's like, you know, whatever.

Anyway, all right, so let's move on to the Sucks profile. Yeah, so I really liked, I mean, I'll say this. One of the few things that you can look forward to during a rebuilding year is kind of watching the draft stock. And since this is, I think this draft is five men, five people deep, maybe six or seven, depending on how you feel about Keon Johnson or Zaire Williams. There are a lot of exciting talents in this draft, like potential all-stars, guys who can create advantages. And I think one of those guys is Jalen Suggs. So I wanted to talk about these guys now just briefly. We'll probably talk about them going into the draft, and that'll be a lot of fun.

But just briefly talk about these guys because the tournament's coming up. And then the G League Ignite season has started along with the rest of the G League and what they're calling the G League bubble, same way that they did it for the NBA. It's in Disney. And that's just going to be something that I'll probably be watching on the days when there's maybe not a game. and I have some time to kill. So Jalen Suggs, 6-4 point guard out of the undefeated and thoroughly stacked Gonzaga team.

They have probably the best shooter in college basketball right now, Corey Kisbert. And then they have just a lot of big names, a really fun team to watch. But he's the primary offensive initiator, and he's got a really physical play style that involves a lot of driving to create looks. And he's a capable three-level score with excellent finishing skills with both power and touch. just a lot of a lot of skill there around the rim. He's got a nice floater and a decent three ball. And I think we've mentioned in the past, like it's really important for your point guard to be a three level score

just because that's the guy that you want, he needs to be a threat from just about everywhere so that his defender's always kind of closing in on him and he's always got that man close. That's how you create advantages. I think the pistons right now kind of lack that, you know, future creator. I know that there are people who are higher on Killian A's. I would still prefer at this point.

I think you should just kind of take him off ball or make him a secondary ball handler. I think Suggs could be that primary guy. And he still plays off the ball a little bit of good Zaga. So maybe that's a good fit. Right now, when I watch him, his three-point shot is still probably the biggest question mark. It's not the most consistent. He's got pretty low volume there. But he's trying to show that he has it.

Watching him against BYU on Friday, he had one from what I call Steph Range, and then he had one airball. But overall in the night, he still shot 204. On the season, he's averaging 36%. For him, it's going to be a matter of keeping the defense honest, keeping them on him so that he can create those drives and get the offense going. Just an really, really interesting talent. I like his fit with the pistons, especially since they're kind of developing this identity of hard work, attacking,

and defense. I think he would fit in there really nicely. And I think that one of the more interesting things, I mean, we could probably talk about this more in depth, but I think he would have a really nice fit with Isaiah Stewart. His passing is excellent, and his center on the team right now, Drew Timmy. They have a really nice two-man game where Suggs is able to get him bullet passes and he's able to put them up in the basket with all in one motion, catch,

and then just spin it right up. Suggs' IQ, it's just a lot of fun to watch. And I think that right now he's probably not the best guy in the top five. I would probably have him right now in my Pistons big board. Probably a three. Depending on where we land, I think he would just be a really, really good option. But there's just a lot of guys that you want to watch coming up in the next month. And I think there'll be a lot of fun to talk about when the draft comes along.

So Jalen Suggs, potential target for the Pistons. At this stage, whom would you select him over out of the top five guys for talking Cunningham, Kumenga, Suggs, Green, and Mobley? It's really close beyond Cunningham. I think Cominga's shown a lot in his first couple G-League games. So I would probably put him at number two right now. That's probably a little too reactionary. I think Suggs, the only thing with Suggs is that he doesn't show the most consistent three ball.

But I would go Cunningham, Cominga, Jalen Suggs, and then after that, probably Evan Mowley and then Jalen Green. and Mowbly being at four, I think that's more of a fit thing. I think he's a fantastic talent. But that'll all be something we can consider going into the draft, and that'll be a lot of fun to talk about. That's crazy that March Madness is coming up. Hopefully it goes as planned this season.

It was a big loss, definitely, to everybody in the draft analysis world. That March Madness has not happened last time. And for everybody in general, sports fans in general, and the players and so on and so forth. forth. You know, big shame. Needless to say. All right, so that'll be a wrap for today's episode. Thank you all for listening. We'll see you next time.