Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 35: Moving on from Blake Griffin, and the importance of team culture

Episode Date: February 21, 2021

This episode discusses the parting ways of the Pistons and Blake Griffin, does mid-season profiles on Jerami Grant and Josh Jackson, and takes a dive into how this roster's culture differs from that of Pistons teams of the recent past.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Driving to the Basket. I'm Mike. I'm here with Tommy, just a two-man podcast today. So we got a lot to talk about today, particularly around the Blake Griffin News. We're going to launch right now into just a short recap of this week's games. Nothing really particularly notable this week, aside from Jeremy Grant's 43-point explosion. And first game against the Pelicans. I think this was notable largely. I mean, it was a decent team effort, but notable largely for the Pelicans kind of collapsing, shooting poorly. And really just kind of beating themselves thanks in parts to the very, you know, characteristically poor coaching of a guy who befuddles me how Stan Van Gundy got any job in the NBA

after how he did with the Pistons, you know, not just this. as a GM, but as a coach, and went alone the team with Zion Williams. And what were your thoughts about his coaching, Tommy? It's still a head scratcher to me that a coach in the NBA would kind of prioritize taking away the paint when the emphasis on the league right now is, you know, three-point shooting. But that's what the Pelicans did, and the Pistons shot fairly well from distance. And it wasn't much of a game, honestly, after that.

So not really surprised. It's just kind of a, I wouldn't say ugly game, but I think a game with, two traditional centers who are kind of slow. It's not going to be the prettiest game anyway. Yeah, I've always liked Adams just for his toughness. I mean, the guy really lays it out there. You know, when it came to all these old, well, we'll talk about Andre Drummond a little bit later.

I was going to, you know, very, very briefly, mostly just to laugh at him. But I was going to compare him to Drummond. I mean, they're polar opposites. Stephen Adams is just the team guy and just lays his body on the line every game. but, you know, one of the toughest, also, by all accounts, one of the strongest players in the NBA, not physically speaking. But, yeah, I completely agree. I mean, Van Gundy did the same thing in Detroit.

He would prioritize just packing the paints, defending the rim in a league that during its time as coach just dramatically shifted toward perimeter offense. You know, the driving kick became a big thing. It's like, okay, you want to pack the paints. I'm just going to drive toward it, watch you collapse, and then pass it out to an open shooter. So it's clearly not something from what he really learned. I don't expect Van Gunny to really learn anything given how he did not improve at all. And I think by defaults became a worst coach as time went on in Detroit as the NBA evolved.

And he just wasn't able to keep up. I don't think he was good coach in first either. But yeah, it's like the Pelicans. just vomit up, I think, the most open or wide open three is in the NBA right now. And if another team, the other team is shooting well on those, then you're pretty much screwed. Yeah, and the Pistons shot pretty well. Also, the Pelicans had some players who just didn't play well. It was nice to see Isaiah Stewart go up against Zion and do a pretty good job, though.

Yeah. Yeah, he didn't, you know, I don't want to say kudos to Dwayne Casey, but it was a little bit of surprise to see Dwayne Casey actually put Stewart out. Well, he didn't put Stewart out there for that matcher, but when Stewart's out there, he was defending Zion. And that's a sort of adaptation that you don't often see from Dwayne Casey. And, yeah, Stuart, I mean, Stuart, you know, is not going to be physically bullied by anybody. You know, the guy is thick, you can call it. So, yeah. Absolutely.

There are some fun sequences, yeah, where Zion just tried to bull his way in. And, you know, you're not really going to move Stewart on the way to basket. So he got blocked and then try it again. and just couldn't get the body position or maybe I've got the events switched around, whatever the case. And then two other games that were basically just the pistons, you know, against the Bulls and against the Grizzlies,

just basically the Pistons, not being a very good basketball team. It was kind of like opposites. And against the Bulls, the Pistons were shooting the lights out and the Bulls couldn't make a shot in the first half. Billy Donovan came out and made, you know, basically except for Zachomeney and made wholesale changes in the starting lineup. and the Bulls became able to shoot and the Pistons got beaten. And against the Grizzlies, the Pistons couldn't hit a shot and then made a comeback, but wasn't enough.

Jeremy Grant, basically against the Bulls, was the only guy who could really effectively manufacture offense. Against the Grizzlies, decent team effort, but the pistons were just outmatched. Yeah. Yeah, the only thing that I noticed about the Grizzlies game was that, I don't know if you remember my theory last week about Plumley being put into a role that he's not equipped for kind of on purpose to let the team falter a bit. He kind of hard caps your ceiling in terms of what you can accomplish. He got absolutely sunned by Valenciunis and her rim protection was pretty terrible too. So even though the Pistons weren't playing particularly poorly on the perimeter, I don't think.

Valentuanus just destroyed that matchup. Oh, yeah, he did. Yeah. And that's fine with me. It ended up being a pretty close game. Yeah. It kind of got away at the end a little bit, but the pistons came all the way back. And that's a good thing that you want to see.

We were talking about this how these were both fairly close games, but I think the Memphis game is a much better game in terms of morale than the Bulls game. Because in the Bulls game, we had a 25-point lead, and they blew it. And people were saying, well, this is a perfect tank game. You know, it was interesting. We kept it close. But I think in terms of, like, the team culture and the, the morale, this is not what you want.

I really prefer the games where, you know, maybe we start slow, but we come all the way back, and then if you lose it, that's perfectly fine. You know, the team shows mental fortitude, and that was a lot closer to the story in that Memphis game. So that's more what you want to see. I wouldn't call a massive choke job, a really good tank win. I really liked it. There was a quote from Josh Jackson a few weeks ago where he said something to the effect of were a lot better than our record.

It was in reference to the fact that the Pistons have played a lot of close games. They've come back. They've shown that they won't just be put away easily. And that's exactly what you want. And I think we'll talk about the importance of culture later. But losses like that where they kind of sting, that's not really ideal. I think you want to show a little more strength than that. And they did come all the way back, you know, the Bulls.

And then the Pistons kept it pretty close in the fourth, but ultimately grants 40. three points just weren't able. It just wasn't enough. Yeah, they got out talented. Maybe arguably outcoached as well. Dwayne Casey has always been very bad at arresting collapses. It's one of the things that got him fired by the Raptors. It was a particularly big problem in the playoffs.

When the offense stops working, Dwayne Casey is not, like repeat, underline, not good. It's, in fact, quite bad at making changes to, you know, making the necessary adaptations to get it running again or to give it the point. best chance of getting running again. Meanwhile, Billy Donovan pulled four starters and put in four new starters to start the second half. I think it was four. It was three at least. But I think Zach Levine was the only one who stayed out there. So I agree bad for Team R.L. You don't want to be up and then just get completely taken to town. And in the second half, it's just, you know, it's no good for anybody to choke out a lead like that. As far as the Grizzlies game, yeah, I mean,

I mean, exposed Mason Plumley is a mediocre center. I mean, the guy works hard. We'll talk about that. We're going to talk about team culture a little bit later in the episode. But he's a mediocre starting center. He is. And, you know, that's just going to come out and be evident in some games. And yeah, Valentunis is a little old-fashioned.

But if, you know, if you can't physically stand toe to toe with you, he's going to beat you up. That much is for sure. as far as rim protection goes though I mean when you have john morant who is you know it's games like yesterday he wasn't super efficient but just watching him play I mean the guy's really something else and he just bounces into the paints

and puts up a floater and it's real tough to defend that if he's hitting it so in any event yeah that was the games of the week coming up next week are two games against the Oruano Magic which I think

for the sake of you know draft position, I think it would be pretty important for the Pistons to lose. And then against the Pelicans and the Kings. So moving on, we're going to talk about really the big news of the week, which was Blake Griffin and the Pistons mutually agreeing to part ways. So, yeah, it's certainly no secret on this podcast that Tommy and I were completely irate that this trade was made in the first place. I don't think I've ever been angrier at a sports-related event than it wasn't that day.

I don't think there's anything to be gained by dissecting the trade again, but, but, you know, somebody else has rightly put this as the beginning of the end of an error. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm glad to see. Ultimately, I mean, it's the reason that we're kind of rebuilding now. So it was such a horrible move that it ended up working out for us. Yeah, in a way. In a way, I agree.

In another way, I'm not going to, you know, it's, I'm never going to get past how horrible a trade it was. Just that the Pistons went in and, I know I said we wouldn't get into trade. I'll spend 30 seconds on it. The Pistons, the Griffin had a negative value contract at that point. He wasn't going to be a guy who was to his, suited to lead a successful team, but also he was incredibly injury prone even at that point. He had a lot of really hard hitting NBA miles in his body.

And I think already at that point, like four surgeries, if I remember correctly. So a negative value contract and the Pistons paid for it. They paid significant assets for that negative value contract. And that the contract was going to cripple them in terms of the salary cap for at least two seasons. And the team that they had left that would surround Scriffin was speaking. in terms of, you know, just the necessary accoutrements of a successful NBA offense these days was an abomination. And we saw it. He had his all-MDA season, and they had, they gained two additional wins over the injury created over the injury, adult roster of the season before. You know, it was a waste of trade. You got to say with Blake,

yeah, sure. I mean, he came in and really put it out in the line for the Pistons in his all-M-Ba season. He played very well. You look back and you watch those, watch those highlights. It is not. heightened day from what we've seen over the last two seasons, and it's sad to see. I don't really agree with the narrative that he destroyed his body for the pistons. I mean, that is how Blake Griffin plays. And he had begun the process of destruction of his body long before, just not willfully, but that's how he plays, and his injury prone has always been. So, yeah, what do you see is the implications of this?

I mean, I know they're fairly obvious, but what... Yeah, I mean, we, I react, my initial reaction to, like, that last game where Blake rested, I think Plumley, maybe that was the game where Plumley got his first triple double. My reaction was, we are a much better team without Blake. And I think that mostly comes down to how the offense looks. I mean, Blake was a ballstopper. He was still trying to post up people and then kind of take him his way into the paint, slowed down the offense. It just wasn't fun to watch. It wasn't good for development.

I don't think it really contributed to too many wins. He didn't shoot particularly well this year. I think what they were trying to do was the Chris Paul thing, where this is what James Edwards kind of indicated was they were trying to audition him, and say air quotes around audition, but all we really saw was, wow, he is way worse than I think anybody expected he was going to be coming into this season with such a long break. but what I'm referencing was Chris Ball getting traded to Oklahoma City after injuring his knee with the rockets,

and then he demonstrated value, and then he was able to get to the Sons where he's playing a positive role for them. I think maybe that was what they were trying to do here, and they gave him plenty of rest. I think he had one good game against Lakers where they were – I think they were trying to maybe build some type of value for him, and it just didn't happen. and now they've decided, well, we are prioritizing development over giving you minutes and Blake doesn't want to play on a rebuilding team, and that's fine. I think it's indicated in the article. It's mutually beneficial.

I fully expect a bio, and I expect the Pistons to continue this type of play where, even though they're lacking decent ball handling, it's just an offense that's more based on playing through your teammates than isolations. And I think that's just more fun to watch at this stage. What do you think? Oh, yeah, I agree it's for the best that he's no longer on the team. Whether they're trying to audition him or not, Blake is not a guy who can participate in a modern offense,

even at this peak with the Pistons, he really couldn't participate in a modern offense. He had to be the offense. We're talking modern offense, one that prioritizes ball movements and the creation of lanes to the basket and open threes and so on and so forth. This season, he came in, yep, ball stopper. That is the only way he can play is a ball stopper. He can't really play off the ball very well.

When he gets it, it's real predictable what he's going to do. He's either going to take a pull-up three. He's going to post-up or he's going to try to drive for the basket. Now, he can't drive up the basket. His post-ups are not effective, and he's not a good three-point shooter. And, you know, two seasons ago, it was predictable what he was going to do. He was just so unstoppable and it didn't matter. Whatever the case, yeah, I think it's a good.

for the best. I think Blake, when he talked about, sure, I'm happy to be around and mention the young players. I think that was just lip service. This would have been Blake's first season on a rebuilding team since his rookie year. I don't think he really had much interest in it. And if the business were trying to showcase him, I mean, all they do is really, nobody was going to trade for him anyway, unless he really showed that he had made a lot of progress toward reacquiring his previous value on the court. And in the event, he came out, and it just showed that he's in bad shape physically. He really had previously adapted his game to compensate for his loss of athleticism due to injuries.

But there's only so much loss of athleticism for which you can compensate, especially in a league that's as competitive as the NBA. So, yeah, you take him out of the lineup. First thing, 32 minutes, roughly, that can go to younger players. That's great. You can start Sadiq Bay. Fantastic. You can move Jeremy Grant to Power Forward.

I don't think it really matters. But maybe he likes playing there better or something. That's really his natural position is Power Forward. Five years ago, he would have been a small forward, but things have changed a lot. So, yeah, you can run a modern offense. You can run an offense that is going to prioritize that ball movement and off, you know, an off ball movement. and faster pace. I mean, the pistons with Griffin on the floor were an extremely slow-paced team

because he can't play any other way. And the rookies get to play in that modern offense, and they get more opportunity. And it's for the best for everybody. Now, what happens with Blake? So I'll just go over the options real quick. So you've got basically three options when you want a guy who's, when you're dealing with guaranteed salary. So there's, they're guaranteed and non-guaranteed salaries in the NBA.

the vast majority of salary in the NBA is guaranteed, including 100% of blakes. And so when you're dealing with guaranteed salary, basically it's going to be paid out. And, you know, all except for one option. That'll be option number three we're talking about. Number one is just to waive somebody, you know, to get rid of, basically to get rid of a player from the team.

Number one is just to waive him, which basically means your service is no longer required. It opens up a roster spot, but you still got to pay the player. everything is owed. Number two is a variation on the wave, which is wave and stretch. We did it with Zayor Smith and Duane Deadman at Van Gundy. After blowing a shot, the trade Josh Smith ended up stretching him. Basically, you take the remaining salary and you stretch it evenly across a number of years equal to the remaining length of the contract times two plus one.

That's why the Pissons had two years left on Smith's contract. They paid him out about $5.4 million a season for five seasons. That's completely inapplicable here. The Pistons, thanks to a provision of the CBA that says that at no point across the course of the buyout, can the team's total stretch salaries equal more than 15% of the cap in the season in which the player was bought out? Obscure, whatever means they can't wave them stretching if they wanted to, but they wouldn't. Anyway, the pistons are in no need of immediate cap space, and that's why you wave and stretch a player, as opposed to straight waving him.

So the only way you can actually reduce players' cap is to renegotiate a buyout. And this is sort of unprecedented in that you have a player who's, you know, a buyout's basically what's going to happen. The Pistons have no incentive to just let Blake go and say, we're going to pay you a supermax salary so you can go chase your dreams on a minimum contract somewhere else. They have all the leverage here. If Blake wants out, then he's going to have to meet them. So that's probably going to, that would mean a reduction in next season salary. So if you negotiate a buyout with a player, basically, In the NBA, your cap hit is the dollar, but very few exceptions, such as the veteran minimum contract.

You, what you're being paid is, at any given season, is your cap hit. So the way you reduce that is you negotiate with this player to reduce his salary. So if they say, okay, Blake, we want to buy you out and both sides negotiate their salary down to 10 million less than it was, then okay, sure. Right, the player, and then you waive the player, you know, because you waive the player. player. That's what you have to do for the, you know, if you're buying a player out. You got to wave him. Yeah. Anyway. So you wave him and he's still on your books, but he's on your books for less money. So, and that's almost certainly what you see the Pistons do. Key dates, if Blake wants to play in these playoffs for another team, that buyout has to be

finalized by, I believe, the 9th of April. He needs to be finalized. He needs to be finalized. He needs to be waived. And so that, that's kind of a key date. All right, all that aside. Yeah, I think it's for the best. I think it's for the best in every respect. Blake has no trade value. I mean, you're going to have to buy him out. The guy has had an awful season.

He looked terrible last season two. There's no indication he's going to improve and he's paid a supermax salary. It's like, so sorry. Maybe there's some trade that pissens could swing for an even worse contract, but I don't know if there is a worse contract in the MDA at this point,

except for maybe Westbrook. And no, not happening. Don't want that. Yeah. So, yeah, the Pistons, fortunately, are in no hurry. So, yeah, we'll see where it goes. But I think it's very much addition by subtraction. And the only thing I think I'd miss is that I have seen,

we've seen Blake kind of like talking to the rookies and coaching them. I think there is value in that. And the fact that is Blake Griffin, a guy who has, you know, name recognition and respect across the league, losing that kind of sucks. but overall, it's absolutely worth it. I think they've said now that it's going to be leadership by committee since Rose and Griffin are gone.

I think there is some value to having these highly respected guys with accolades doing the bulk of your coaching and being those vocal guys. That's part of the thing with me. You talk about it'll just sign anybody cheap for your veteran leadership. I think there is value in picking guys who have certain, you know, skills and accolades. And then conversely, there's, or not conversely, but on the other hand, there's guys like Plumley

who are just really good locker room guys, and I think we ever picked those guys deliberately. So that'll all tie into this culture conversation that we want to have. But that's the one thing that I'll miss about Griffin. They've shown him, you know, talking to Sadiq about, like, where to stand and stuff like that. I think he seems like a perfectly fine, like basketball mind.

I think his dad was a coach. So that I'll miss, but overall, yeah, it's just, it's necessary. I think it's worth it. Yeah, it's, I don't think you have to have, I mean, big names, sure, you know, maybe it'll help in some respect. I've read some stuff about NBA players. I can't remember these specifics right now, no other specific names. But I recall El Horford, for example, saying that one of his mentors in his early days with

the Hawks was some more or less very small name role player. and so you don't need to be a big name to be a good mentor but on another note it is it is funny funny in a very not so great sort of way in a sort of tragic comic fashion that you look at blake griffin and and andre drummond these two guys whom and it so basically this is just reflective of what a disaster the stand bang gundierre was so these two guys who were the twin towers you know, well after Twin Towers were a viable way of doing things, around whom, you know, Van Gundy basically stake the next few years of the Pistons. And on the exact same day,

Blake Griffin and the Pistons decided to part ways, which is largely the product of him no longer being an affected player, or at least the way in which they decided to part ways. And this happened because of injuries, and the injuries happened because he's injury prone, which was known before he traded for him. And so on the very same day, Drummond was removed from the Cavs lineup because they want to get rid of him because he's toxic.

So you have these two players on the same day. Their team's just finally like, okay, we don't want you. And yeah, I mean, Drummond, I mean, it's, this is a little bit of event. And not really event. I am not looking. I don't like to look at somebody's misfortune and say, well, you know, you deserve this and ha, ha, ha. And that's really not what I'm doing here.

But with Drummond, it's like, I think the guy just has such a despicable mentality that, you know, just in terms of being incredibly selfish and self-centered with an awful work ethic, it's like, you know, I'm glad that the jig is up and that teams around the league are aware that you don't have much value at all. Because the Cavs, much like the Pistons last season of the deadline, would be lucky to get like a couple of second round picks.

out of it, out of him. So, yeah, I just, it's nice to see the guy get his comeuppance because, you know, with the Pistons. And, and again, we'll talk about, you know, the culture aspect of it. Later on with the Pistons, I mean, he was just such an anti-culture guy. And, yeah, and like, all criticized players like Mason Plumley and Bruce Brown, probably play on the court, I like them. You know, I really like players like that.

you know, in their character. You know, their guys who go out and they work hard 100% of the time and they could not care less about their own personal accolades. You know, they play for the team. Drummond was the opposite of that. And I think that's inexcusable particularly, you know, I would say particularly given the salary of pay, but I think that's inexcusable in any context.

So, yeah, anything to add about Blake Griffin or Drummond? No. I think that they did their job in that we were so bad. Now we are in this rebuilding situation. And I think Griffin's contract is a nice expensive lesson for Tom Gore's unpatience. So hopefully he'll learn from that. I think the situation was, and I'll continue to believe this until I see otherwise, that Van Gundy came to him with this idea, which is largely based around Van Gundy trying to keep his job. And Tom Goraz just went wild for it because, hey, it's Blake Griffin. We're going to get this star.

Sell tickets, win games. And, you know, I think that any any more knowledgeable NBA owner? I think if Stan Van Gundy have brought that trade to Mark Cuban, for example, if you got a laughed out of the room, or any typical owner who would just say, what is the point of this trade? Why would we do this? So who knows, maybe Tom Gores learned from it,

but I'll always have the memories of him showing up completely hammered to Blake's first game. a little, you know, hopefully you learn from that too. In any event, why don't we move on to Jeremy Grant, who struggled a little bit lately. So Grant aside from his really big explosion against the Chicago Bulls, says it's at a pretty rough time of it over the last couple of weeks. Like, not awful, but he's, he's a very rough time.

had some difficult games, put it that way. So, yeah, as we talked about last time, I mean, he had a really tough game against the Pacers. He had a rough game against, against the Celtics. He had a tough game against the Pelicans, and he had a tough game against the Grizzlies. And I know Dante speculated last time around that he's just tired. I know you think that team's just game playing for him more effectively. And, you know, it's true. He has not played great, against the teams against the league's better defenses for the most part. No, not universally, but for the most part. And yeah, I know definitely you don't see Grant's ideal role as a first option.

Yeah, no, I think we can talk about that. I still see him as a second option. I think any of these guys in the upcoming draft would feasibly become a first option. I don't think Grant is quite dynamic enough. I think he's a lot more useful as a second option, and that's paramount. You want to have a coach and a team where everybody's used to their strengths.

And I don't think Grant is the first option is using him the most effectively. I think having a guy who's kind of taking a little bit of the attention away from Grant is going to be really good for him. I think that would up his efficiency. And that's kind of like the idea that I'm thinking about when I say that they're game planning them a little bit more. They're just taking away some of these options, some of these drives. I know against the Grizzlies, there was one instance where, like, there was like three Grizzlies that all kind of converged on him, and he's just having a much tougher time getting to the rim, except with the exception of that Bulls game where the defense was pretty bad. But, you know, having the ball out of his hands maybe a little bit more, and I think that would just benefit him a lot.

So I see him as a second option. I'm sure that there are people who would prefer to see him as a first option or think that he can become that. And I'm not saying that he can't, but I think at this stage right now, even if he continues to either maintain his initial level of play or improve a little bit. I still think second option is the best case scenario for him. You can't have too many good players, especially since Grant plays a good defense. And I think he's a pretty team-oriented guy. Yeah, he's been called upon to do, I think, more than he ought to. He's certainly made enormous strides over his performance earlier in his career.

like tremendous strides, I think, surprised everybody. Probably surprised even Troy Weaver, if I had to guess. But he's on a team on which he is just asked to, he's the only efficient creator of offense on a team, and that was true even when Derek Rose was around. Rose, he wasn't have a good season with the Pistons. So he's asked to do a great deal. I agree it would be better if he were playing second option to somebody,

both in that he could probably focus on more efficient, It'd just be more efficient. He's just asked to do less difficult things. He'd also get the crap eaten out of him less. Because when Grant goes to the rim, I mean, he has the asset of having very long legs and long arms. He can get to the rim just in a few strides. He's a good jumper. But, yeah, when he gets hacked at the rim, it's, he really gets hacked at the rim.

And it's not because anybody's trying to hurt him. It's just because of where he finds himself, you know, in the air with his arm outstretched. And if he gets followed, he's, for the most part, going to the ground. he's also the fact that he's asked to do so much is probably a little bit tiring even for an elite athlete and the wear and tear also probably isn't that deal but you know that that's a different story so even the fact that he's playing next to mason plumley you know his defender is going to be able to get there pretty quickly because plumbly's not going to draw that guy out of the pain most of the time if he doesn't have the ball in his hands yeah so just not an ideal situation for him

I think his efficiency would uptick if you gave him better ball handling even. I mean, our point guard rotation is incredibly weak right now. Oh, it's bad. It's real bad. He and Blumly have a decent two-man game as far as the lobs go. Maybe that dates back to their time in Denver somehow. But, yeah, so he's just been really struggling. There are some aspects of his game, though, that are also just really not ideal.

Just wrinkles that I would prefer to, I'm not sure. why Duane Casey hasn't really smoothed them out. Honestly, Dwayne Casey, when it comes to his elite players, the best offense players in his team is historically really never coached them in terms of shot selection very well. You know, certainly, you know, De Mardorosen sticks out as, is an unfortunate example. So Jeremy Grant's attempts about, you know, what about over three mid-range shots per game?

he converts these on bad efficiency. They're primarily pull-ups. And right now, T's pistons, I believe, have played, what, 28, 29 games? Whatever the case, he's attempted nearly 100 mid-range jumpers. You know, as of last game, T's hitting one-third of those. So that's just a bad shot you want to work out. I mean, very few guys are going to be affected by mid-range pull-ups. And that's just something that's, you know,

that's going to invariably be bad for your efficiency, particularly as, you know, a little over three a game. I mean, that's a significant number of shots, even for a guy who's attempting on, you know, offense on volume as much as granted, he's, you know, when you include his free throws, he's, it's about 21 opportunities per game. So, you know, it's close 15% of your opportunities. You'd like to see him get rid of those. You'd like to see him get rid of the turnaround jumpers. You know, it looks nice when he makes one, but he's not effective on those, his post-ups. You know, who knows, maybe you say, okay, you can improve on those. But those hurt as efficiency, too.

I guess this is a different discussion, but I think there is some value to having, even if you're not hitting them at the best rate, you know, having a mid-range shot, just being a weapon from everywhere where the team knows that they have to game playing you even in that in-between. I know it's really most something that you really want your point guards to have your ball handlers. So a guy like Jeremy Grant, who should be fairly high usage, I don't mind the fact that he takes those. If he can improve that percentage, that's great.

But I really don't mind that. Again, that's a different discussion. It is, but I mean, if you're hitting, if you're shooting in the low 40s when you're left wide open, then teams are more than happy to just back off and let you shoot from mid-range. So in that case, yeah, in that case, that becomes a non-dangered shot. That becomes a shot where basically just teams are happy to give it to you. So, yeah, with certain players, I mean, like, for example, like, you know, Luke Kennard, you know, a couple, you know, what was it? It would have been last season, actually.

And I believe even the season before that was an elite mid-range shooter. So basically, if you give him space, he's probably going to make you pay for it to some degree. And thus, you have to, you have to guard him. Jeremy Grant's not exactly there. And teams are happy to give him the mid-range. Yeah, I guess, I mean, the benefit of, like, being a terrible team that's not really trying to win right now, he can take those shots and you can kind of figure out if there's, there's, you know. room for improvement there. Yeah.

And I'm fine with it taking that stuff. Well, yeah. That's just a little tangent, I guess. Yeah, no, I guess you. On the basis of the tank, sure, you say, okay, take those shots and the business get less points per game out of them. I'm just speaking just on the basis of taking a maximally efficient shot profile. So anything else to add about Jeremy Grant before we move on to Josh Jackson?

No. I mean, I just, I'm really happy with what he's shown us so far. And again, I don't think that. you want him to be your first option. But playing him as your first option right now, I think that's fine for his development. Yeah, and I think that's the role that he wanted when he came to Detroit.

Yeah. Yeah. So moving on to Josh Jackson, who, it's kind of the story of two seasons with Josh Jackson. So he actually really appeared to have been playing well during his first, you know, his first, I don't know, six, seven games before his initial injury with the distance. definitely really

really regressed following his injury. But even before his injury, it was a little bit illusory. Basically, the guy was shooting poorly from three. We're just talking strictly offense. I mean, Jackson has been a decent defender. I'd say certainly an above-average defender, you know, pretty reliable wing defender throughout the entire season.

But prior to his injury, more or less he was just scoring at a ridiculous. percentage of the rim, I think northwards of 70%. And, you know, that's largely just on driving layups. No players are going to keep that up. They're very few players. Maybe Zion Williams can keep that up to a degree. I think he's in the high 60s right now in very high volume, which makes him historically good at it.

So, but Jackson, though, in the past couple of weeks has really picked it up. He's been one of the NBA's best reserves over that period, starting with the game against the Warriors. I mean, the Pistons got obliterated in that game, but it's kind of besides the point, I guess. But, yeah, since the end of January, about 17 points per game

on 48, 38, 78, 72 splits. He still struggles a little bit at the free throw line. He's good at getting there. He's trying to be a passer, which he's been trying that all season, which is very different from his previous, you know, his behavior previously in his career.

He's not very good at it. The average is more turnovers than assists. You have 3.3 turnovers, just 2.3 assists, but you know what? This is where the piston's all right now. It's fine if he, you know, it's perfectly fine if he wants to continue trying to develop that, that facet of his game. But he's been good.

He's real strong in transition. He's got kind of a second gear he kicks into. Now, when he's, you know, when he's maybe 20 feet away from the basket. He attacks the rim very effectively, particularly on these kind of curls, you know, like he'll starts on at the three point line, you know, about the left side above the break and curl on to the right. And he's been very good on those. One of the things that has plagued him in the past is his shot selection.

It's kind of similar to Grant. He really likes his long mid-range shots. And he is bad at those, like certainly bad at those even now. It's a wrinkle. It's much like with Grant, you'd like to see him smooth out of his game. And for him, it's more just that his bad shot selection. But, you know, all told, yeah, he's been one of the top five reserves in the NBA over the last three weeks or so. And he's working hard.

Dwayne Casey says that he, you know, I criticized Dwayne Casey a lot. I'll say something nice about him. He says that he coaches Josh Jackson more than anybody. Now he spends a lot of time reviewing film on him and so on and so forth. Jackson has a lot of talent. His issue in the past has been mentality and behavior. And hopefully he's turned a corner on that. Yeah, definitely.

I mean, you know what I've seen a lot? A lot of people want him to start. What do you think of that? I think he's best coming off the bench is sort of a bench flamethrower. And play against easier opposition. And I mean, right now the Pistons don't have much to, you know, there's not much competition for the ball. You know, you've got Jeremy Grant. And as far as offensive creation, you've got Jeremy Grant and nobody in the starting lineup, basically, unless you consider Dilan right, an effective source of offense.

He's scored a lot lately, but he's way above his baseline. He's just not very good at it. So, you know, but for right now, I mean, yeah, Jackson is playing starters minutes. I mean, the guy certainly over the recent stretch is averaging 27 minutes per game. I'd rather see him in a position where he can do more. I don't see any reason to, yeah, I don't really care if the Pistons bench is weak either, but it'd be extremely weak without Josh Jackson on the floor. then you're basically putting out a unit of Dennis Smith, Svi, Ellington,

the Saku and Stewart, and you're going to have a real hard time finding any offense there. I know you're not often playing all the bench players at the same time. The Dwayne case doesn't really do that, but, you know, it's nice for Jackson to have the opportunity to score on volume. Right. With his attacking play style, I think it is a better idea to have him come off the bench where it'll be weaker competition, weaker defense, and he can really more effectively score, since his efficiency is kind of a question mark as it is, giving him the opportunity and putting him in the situation where he has more open lanes to the basket

and more opportunities to drive. I think that's a much better situation. It's kind of similar to the Isaiah Stewart thing. I know a lot of people want him to start, and for a moment there, I was kind of convinced, okay, maybe he is starting caliber. But at least for right now, I think his best role is still coming off the bench. I think that's a more effective usage of him. And it's not giving him too much or it's not too difficult of a role.

It allows him to grow more effectively. Yeah, he, Stewart didn't have a good week. But, yeah, when it comes to Jackson, yeah, the question, I've said it before, I'll say it again, the question about Josh Jackson has never been can he score. It's been can he score efficiently. a lot of that was just due to bad mentality, bad outlook on which shots he should take, which shots he shouldn't take, when he should pass the ball. He's willing to pass the ball now, and I'd just like to see the bad shot selection further worked upon. Again, it's not an issue right now with the Pistons, you know, being on course and the hope is they lose a lot because that draft pick right now is more important than just about anything else.

But, you know, I'd still like him to work on that shot selection. You know, if you can work in that shots election and iron out those bad shots, then, you know, you probably got a pretty efficient score on your hands. And you, yeah, I think, I think that's something worth working on this season. I had something else I completely forgot what I said I was going to say about Jackson. But, you know, he's right. We can switch the back to what you want. Oh, right.

I remember now. Yeah, you got to work in this free-throat shooting. I mean, you don't want to be a 70. You know, you don't want to be in the low 70s, which has been even during this good stretch. he's been in the low 70s, and I believe on this season that's about where he is as well. You know, he gets a lot of M-1s that he just blows because, you know, because you can't make the free throw. It's still nice to have the foul, but you can't make the free throw. So definitely just work in the free throw shooting because, you know, even over this very good stretch over the last three weeks,

you're shooting five free throws per game. You're only making 72 and a half percent of those. I mean, that's just a bad mark for anybody. Certainly a bad mark for somebody who is not a center, though even these days, your average center is shooting better than that. I mean, the days of the centers who were terrible at free throws is pretty much in the past, or are pretty much in the past, pardon me. So, yeah, why don't we just take this opportunity talking about Josh Jackson, who has worked hard and by all accounts, you know, by all accounts has just been a hard worker across the board to talk about team culture. So Weaver was big on restoring the old Detroit culture of just hardworking, you focus on defense, and so on and so forth.

I mean, basically between the bad boys pistons and the going to work pistons, those are the two distinct eras in the history of the Detroit Pistons. It's also the only two eras that saw the Pistons win championships in the last one, of course, is 2004. The idea of Detroit basketball is that when you come to playing Detroit, I mean, you can't beat the crap out of people like the bad boys did, and you can't hand-check people into oblivion like the going-to-work Pistons did. But the idea is they should come to Detroit, and your life should be a little bit miserable.

And Jalen Brown, as I said last time I was Jason Taney. I was actually Jalen Brown complained after the last Celtics game that he was getting hit too hard by the Pistons. It's like, all right, I'm not looking to injure anybody, but that's the idea you, you know, that's the idea of culture that when you come to Detroit, yeah, your life will be made somewhat miserable. And that's really, I know the fans love that identity. and we were really focused on in the draft and in the off season aside from julia lokifah for i still don't know what he's doing in this team on bringing in guys who would be hard workers we try to you know play a team first game and really compete on defense so what have you seen that you feel like is

really different from from what we've seen in previous you know in the recent past i mean aside from the fact that andre drummond isn't on the team anymore i mean yeah i mean you could you can reference him as like your baseline. This team plays for each other. They play really hard. I think the best example still remains Isaiah Stewart. Just the way that he always tries, like, as hard as possible on every possession. I don't think you've ever, I don't think I've ever seen him walk down the floor. Like, he is always at least, like, jogging. Like, it doesn't matter how many minutes he's played. He's always working as hard as possible. I think that's, especially in, like, I've noticed it's already kind of, like, affected the way that I look at the draft. It's like, when there are

are questions of guys like work ethic, I don't worry about that because it seems like this team, like whoever we pick is going to be in a environment where like they are pushed to work as hard as possible because everybody else seems to be. And I love that. Like it's one less thing to worry about. And I think that that's how you make the most of your team, you know? There are teams that like maybe they have like a plenty of raw talent, but they just don't seem to make it work. They don't get all of it. There are so many teams where it's, like, or players maybe, or it's like they have like sky high potential and you just can't seem to get it. And I think of the wolves, especially like with Wiggins. Like there was so much

raw potential there. And this is like the first season where he's like, maybe it's because he's playing a reduced role with better players around him. But he really seems to have like turned a corner. He's quietly done it. But he's scoring fairly efficiently, I think, this season, or at least he's improved on it. And I'm really happy to see that. You know, We've seen the frustrating moments, especially with Drummond and Jackson, where they would walk up the floor. And in that time, the defense would reset. And you would just get nothing in the way of transition offense.

And now conversely, like our center is the first guy down the floor. And he's beating guards who were standing at the perimeter when the shot went up. And that's just fantastic to me. I really, really appreciate what Troy Weaver is trying to do, at least, with this team culture stuff. And that's why I don't mind the Plumlee contract as much. I really do think that Weaver picked his guys with intent, and I think he knew them very well. He knew Jeremy Grant from his college days.

He knew, I think he knew Mason Plumley from something. I forget what. But he knew these guys ahead of time, and I think that's great. Because, I mean, let's be real, the Pistons aren't going to pull top-tier free agents. They need to do it themselves. and they need to create these guys themselves. And this seems like this sort of team and organization finally that really seems like they can get the most of their guys.

Yeah, it was certainly as the case with the Pistons, the difficulty in drawing marquee free agents. The Red Wings, you know, they were a super successful team for a long time and they didn't have that difficulty. It's, I mean, they did unfortunately have a general manager in Ken Holland who was all about not taking risks and ultimately just turn in the stagnation. but yeah there was that one off season in 2008 right after the Rebbings won the cup and they got marian hosa who said they want to come to Detroit because i think it's my best shot at the championship

but the rebbings of course have followed a very different trajectory that said when it comes to culture basically especially under scotty bowman who's the rebbings coach from I think 94 until 2002 arguably the greatest coach in an hl history as far as his Zach Lloyd's successes. He won three Stanley Cups with Detroit. He won two with Pittsburgh, and he won a bunch with, oh, goodness. It's completely blanking on me with whom he won these other championships. Maybe Montreal, but I don't think so.

I'm a little ashamed of the fact that I can't remember this. Whatever the case, when he came to Detroit, basically, they had a lot of good, a lot of good scores on the team already. For those of you to remember those days, Eisenman's there. I believe Fedorov was already there. I think Paul Coffey, Keith Primo, and so on and so forth. Basically, is the way that Eisenman puts it, that I'm probably saying this word for word, I believe, that the call went out that the team is, that this is going to be a defensive team.

That's going to be our identity. And if you don't like it, then you're going to be gone. And the piston, and Bowman really morphed the, not the pissens, the Red Wings into a team. that was very hard working, very gritty, and just worked hard. And there were really no exceptions. Federo, of course, was a bit of a prima donna, but that's a different story. So, and I always liked what I think this applies to basketball as well. But I believe it was Scotty Bowman who said this.

He says, you can't teach your grinders to score, but you can teach your scorers to grind. And, yeah, so, I mean, I grew up watching that team. I grew up watching the going to work team, going to work pistons, guys who, without exception, worked hard and played a team first game. That's why it was so hard for me to watch during the Stan Van Gundy era. Stan Van Gundy, I mean, it's night and day between the, you know, the focus on culture and upon player character now versus with Stan Van Gundy, who looked at Andre Drummond, who's big question marks of the draft despite what but he was perceived as a significant raw talent

people who has looked at and said he could be one of the best centers in the league if he brings it together that was of course before the advent of the spacing era which really pushed traditional centers down on the value scale significantly but the big question marks and one was offensive rawness and that has turned out to be absolutely accurate the guy just doesn't have the touch but beyond that motor work ethic and maturity those were the question Mark. Stan Van Gundy looked at this guy and apparently ignored the fact that he was a terrible scorer, but looked at his character, which was already there, and said, oh, this guy's going to be a center point of my team. And the other guy I'm going to make, this is going to be our duo, is

Reggie Jackson, an egotist who, because he wanted to be the guy, had forced his way out of Oklahoma City very publicly and was hated by all of his teammates as a result, and hated by the city. It was incredibly unprofessionally nuked his trade value. And he ended up in Detroit as a result, you know, that's how he ended up in Detroit. And Van Gundy said, these are the guys who were going to be the center point of my team. And they did not have a shred of leadership ability between them. Jackson was an egotist. Drummond was lazy and selfish.

I mean, you had guys like, you know, KCP had a, he was a hard worker. Unfortunately, had a penchant for Chucky. Marcus Morris, good character guy, but also had a penchant for Chucky. Van Gundy, you know, this was insane. He never coached shots election, which was ridiculous in the efficiency era. I think he might have been the only coach in the league like that, or one of very, very few. But he just never focused on culture. He was the general manager.

He could bring in guys, whoever, you know, he had full leeway over bringing guys in. He didn't focus on culture and on character there. When his players were on the court, he only held his young players accountable. His veterans could do whatever they wanted. He treated Jackson and Drummond like royalty. He never penalized his veterans for making mistakes, which they did on a very regular basis. Drummond, Griffin, I should be. Drummond, Jackson, Morris, and KCP, never punished.

You know, you can do what you want, but I'm going to yank Stanley Johnson for making a defensive mistake and barely playing for the next three games for making a defensive mistake that my starters have made constantly because they barely try a lot and barely try on defense. Or, you know, they can check out or screw up, and I don't care. I don't know if barely tries the right way of putting it, but he never rewarded his, you know, he would rarely allocate minutes based on performance. Like in 2016, 20 to 17 season,

his best players were, all of them were playing from the bench. And, like, what? So it was just a culture of guys who were poor character, a culture of absolutely selective accountability when there was any accountability at all.

And it was just, it was awful. It was, you know, if you want to look at, if you want to find for the days of Detroit, basketball. I mean, you're never going to have that sort of defensive basketball again because it's not allowed. You know, the NBA took steps to eliminate that after 2005, it was just was not

fun to watch. Hand-checking had gotten ridiculous. Scoring had gotten really low. And of course, you can't, you know, the reason the bad boys could just beat the crap out of people is because technical fouls back then just carried fines and no suspensions. So you're not going to have that sort of defense first basketball and win on defense, but you can still have that hardworking of guys who really play gritty basketball and play for their team. And I have enjoyed, you know, I've given Troy Weaver my share of criticism. I have enjoyed how this team has looked, you know, outside of, you know, I think Griffin was, I don't know if he was being directed to play that way.

He was still playing kind of selfish basketball. Derek Rose, I don't know if he was being directed to play that way. He was still playing kind of selfish basketball. In other case, this is a team that scraps and competes does not behave selfishly. I don't think there's a single player on the team who does that on the current roster. and it's good to see. It's very refreshing. And for that, I will definitely give Weaver credit.

I think that's, I think he is just working hard to, to, he has, you know, he built the team toward the end of developing that culture. I agree that Twain Casey is a good culture coach. And, you know, for the most part. And it's a breadth of, it's not only a breath of fresh air. I mean, the kind of culture that Van Gundy had built was outright bad for the team. And this, and this is the opposite. And also, if I'm being honest, I do, I do appreciate.

the Pistons going back to that sort of Detroit, you know, hardworking mentality. So, yeah, I've appreciated all of that. Even if the team is losing, it makes them much more enjoyable to watch. And, yeah, so that's good. So credit to Weaver there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so any further thoughts about team culture?

No, I think that covers it. It's just much more entertaining, honestly. It was just a lot uglier. when these players were playing for themselves. And now we're finally seeing like really nice ball movement, a lot of the extra passing. I think it's just going to be a much more fun brand of basketball to watch. Yeah, it already is for me an enjoyable, more enjoyable brand of basketball. Oh, something we did forget to talk about.

Sadiq Bay winning player the week. Definitely unexpected. Yeah. I mean, he did it all like, what, like 70, 70, 70, which is insane. Yeah, his splits were incredible. The Pistons went three and one. That was part of it. I know that Terry Rozier and Zach Levine also had excellent weeks.

But their teams lost. I think their teams won one game apiece, and maybe that played into it. But when I saw that, I was like, what? I was like, I don't think anybody saw that coming. It's nice to see. It came on the back of completely unsustainable percentages, like vastly unsustainable percentages. But, you know, it's very nice to see a Pistons rookie,

any Pistons player, but certainly Pistons rookie win player the week. That's great. It was cool, fantastic. and good for Sadiq and you've got to be happy for a guy you'd be happy for any business player makes it but especially for a rookie of his character. Definitely.

Yeah, I don't think it was so much you know, sorry to say, I don't think it was so much a reflection of, oh my God, look at the ceiling on this guy. I think it was just that he played really well for a week. Like I've said before, I think Sadiq can be a very good three and deep player in the NBA.

Not an excellent, but it could certainly good three and deep player in the NBA. Yeah, so that'll be it for today's episode. As always, thank you all for listening. Hope you are well. We'll catch you next.