Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 37: Midseason Review, Part Two - Player grades continued & Jonathan Kuminga draft profile

Episode Date: March 18, 2021

The second half of our two-part midseason episode reviews and grades the remainder of the roster and concludes with a draft profile of prospective top-five 2021 selection Jonathan Kuminga.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to part two of our mid-season episode. We are going to get right back into the player ratings with the fourth consistent member of this season's starting lineup, and that is Dilan Wright. Dilan was initially set to be the backup point guard, most likely. He ended up in the starting role, of course, after the injury to Killian Hayes. His first 15 games or so as starting point guard, he, I mean, I haven't looked at the comparative statistics for that. particular period. But I'd wager he, if he wasn't the worst starting point guard in the league, he was very close to it. I mean, he was really bad. And then over the last couple of weeks before his injury started to pick it up, he had, I think, four good games out of those seven.

And he's a point guard. I know that's a joke that's been made about Ish Smith in the past. Dilan is an average backup quality point guard, who, you know, is as much like with Mason Plumley has been shoved into a starting role. So, yeah, I'll just, I'll go over my spiel first here. One, you know, my fun stat about, about Dilan Wrights or my, whatever you want to call it, he's been extremely safe with the ball. He's got a four to one assist turnover ratio. I believe that ranks him number three among point cards, or number four.

I had that pulled up, whatever the case. He's been excellent as far as avoiding turnovers. Now, the thing with Dilan Wright, however, even, you know, even if he's playing his typical level, he's just, he's not particularly good at anything beyond that. He is not great. He's, I know it's, it's tempting to just allow this to be colored by the games in which he has done well at certain things, but he's not great at driving into the paint and scoring his efficiency. He isn't great there. He is a decent three-point shooter, but doesn't really like to attempt him. He's not a good defender. He's not a liability,

but he's not a good defender. And he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, decent at setting up his teammates, but not great at that either. So, yeah, that's what he is. He is a backup caliber point guard playing starters minutes. So if we're looking at the breadth of the season, I'd give him a C overall, just because, I mean, he played it. It's very easy to go with reasons he buys, and he did have two weeks, a pretty good play before that. He had, like, a month of really bad play. So actually, I'll revise that.

I'll give it a lot of C-minus, actually. I know, geez, it's just so hard, actually. Nobody expected him coming to be in the starting point card. That's the thing. That's the thing with expectations. He's on a friendly contract, and he was not expected to be the starting point card. So I'll just waffle a bit, and I'll give the guy a C plus because he's been thrown on the starting lineup, and he's done okay.

And I'm tempted to revise it downward again, but I just don't want to. But I will. Okay. Delon, right, you get a C. And the real question about Delan is when he's, he will, or what will become of him if he will still be on the team after the debline, and I hope the answer is no, but that's a different story. It's also when we discussed a couple episodes ago, I think, when it came to

potential trade debline value. And yeah, I just, I hope he's moved. I think he could garner some assets, nothing big, maybe a second round pick or two tops, but I just, I don't think there's really much of space for him on the team going forward. Yeah, I would agree with that. Once Hayes comes back, I think you kind of want him to take over the ball handling, even if that means putting one of these other guys like Dinismith Jr.,

he maybe even saving into the starting lineup. And, well, I can mention that later. I would give DeLan a B-minus just because I appreciate the stability that he provides. And again, he wasn't expected to be in the starting lineup. I had kind of forgotten about him, to be honest at times, in the beginning of the season. and it's just something that he has to deal with. So I've been okay with him. There's not much more that I would have asked from him at this point.

So I'm going to go ahead and give him just the B minus. He's been stable and I appreciate that. You know, this team has a lot of young guys and I have grown to appreciate these older guys who are able to give something consistent. So I'll stick with the B minus. Very well. Next up, Wayne Ellington. So it should be noted.

there are at this point with Svee moving on and we're not going to I guess neither of us none of us rather really felt it's fitting to give Svea a grade I guess he's been off the team for like 12 hours but much in the same way that we're not going to go over Blake Griffin or Derek Rose he yeah we've only got eight actual rotation players with a Bistens who have played consistent games and so I mean we've been over four of those already those would be Plumley, Grants, Bay, and Wrights.

And the only four we've got left to have played significant minutes are Ellington, Saku Jackson and Isaiah Stewart. So just in case anybody is wondering. So, yeah, moving on to the man Ellington. So as we know about Ellington, he came into the starting lineup, I think about three weeks into the season. Shortly after that, he embarked upon a ridiculous tear, which may have been the best stretch of his career,

is averaging about 19 points per game on 60% three-point shooting. And then he came just, you know, after shooting into the stratosphere, he came plummeting back to Earth and carved out a gigantic impact crater where he resided for like 11 or 12 games. And you could count on him to come in and hit A3. And that's it for the most part. He shot 19.5% around from three over that span and then picked it up again and started started torching once more.

So Wayne's stat is that he has been one of the best pull-up shooters in the league. Pull-up scores, he got the ball, he pull-up to take a shot. For guys who have attempted at least two pull-up field goal attempts, excuse me, who attempted to pull-up field goals per game, he has the third highest effective field goal percentage. So that's even taking into account his struggles. across that stretch in which he was really terrible. So what have been your thoughts about Wayne Owington?

Honestly, there's not much more to add to that. Just a guy who for some reason got a really heavy usage out of Casey, and that was frustrating and surprising, honestly, for a while there. But another guy that they were just kind of banking on him being that stable vet, I would give him a C. factoring in his really hot stretch and then plummeting back down, there's just not much that you want to add to that. So I would just give him the C.

Yeah, he's definitely played a very large role. You knew when he was coming, when he came to Detroit, that he was going to get some sort of significant role in the offense from Casey. So he came back to Detroit in the first place because he really appreciated the chance or the opportunity that Casey had given him when he was in Detroit last during that. that stretch after the deadline in 2019. And he's played much the same role.

Casey loves to run sets for him, sets that utilize multiple screens to get Ellington open for a three. That's been one of the mainstays of Casey's offense. It was a big play for Casey's in Detroit's offense two seasons ago as well. But, you know, when it comes down to it, I mean, Wayne is a role player. I mean, he's ostensibly a sharpshoot. from three. He's never actually been a super high percentage player. He does take difficult shots, but I think it's 38% in his career. So he's a role player, kind of a sort of a one-trick pony,

because he can't really do much beyond shoot. I mean, he can take advantage of openings and pass to other players, but he's not a great playmaker for others. He can't really great offense for himself. Basically, what he's limited to doing is taking three is created for him by others. So he has been shoved into a larger role, really, than maybe was expected, but certainly larger than he's capable of even on a bad team. And he's done his best with it, and neither his shots are falling or they aren't. He gets murdered on the perimeter on defense. If anybody sets an offball screen and gets a pass on the weight of the basket, they're going to beat him.

But he was signed as a minimum contract player, veteran minimum, is a locker room guy. And just based on expectations, I'd give him probably a B minus just for the way he's played in some games. And then ultimately, a minimum contract guy comes in and plays badly. You don't really think too much of it. But when he comes in and at least, you know, even has some stretches in which he plays excellent basketball. And I've just got to give that to him. But I know we're both hoping he gets moved.

I was surprised to hear that there's some interest in him. I don't think he'll really garner you much beyond, like, a low second round pick. But, you know, if that be the case, then great. Cool. And there are some games in which I just live in fear of Ellington going and getting on just an incredible rope from the three-point line. Of course, that makes him more likely the Pistons are going to win. So, yeah, but presumably he's lending his leadership beyond the scenes as well.

By all accounts, he's a super, super nice guy. And I think for what the Pistons paid him in the offseason, he's certainly delivered pretty well. All right. Next up, Sector Dumoya. So as we mentioned earlier, it's been a struggle of a season for Seku. I mean, he's, he has been nowhere in the realm of an acceptable rotation player. As we all noted earlier also, it's like, who cares? And this is an unforeseen situation.

And also he, yeah, he shouldn't be in the NBA right now. That's not a knock against him. It's just the way it goes. Now the fun stat for Seku, which is not such a fun stat, he's currently, he's thus far in the season, hits 16. percent of his jump shots. That's not 60. We're talking one six.

Should illustrate how much he struggled. He's been real foul prone. He really hasn't. I mean, he's been efficient in the restricted area when he gets there, which isn't really often. He's just struggled in almost every walk of offense. When he can beat his defender off ball, then great. Good for him. But that's not too often.

He gets less of those plays call for him than I would like. Or his off ball movement plays less for all in the offense than I would like. than I would like. But that's really all he's succeeded at when he's been given the chance. It's really all he's done well. He has a bad habit when he's driving to the basketball, the ball of just getting tunnel vision and not passing. Again, I think it's just a product of an experience.

The guy's just super raw still. And it would best serve him to be playing against the less difficult opposition rather than the best players in the world. So for my part, I can't give Seku anything less than a C because I think expectations for him should be basically rock bottom at this point or that should be non-existent expectations and that he shouldn't even be playing. He's just he's not ready. So I'm not unhappy with him.

This is, I think it would have been nice to see him play better, but I don't think it should have been expected of him. So, yeah, we'll see. I mean, it's worth mentioning that not only is he still very inexperienced, but the guy didn't really get a training camp or real training over the summer. because of the pandemic. I mean, nobody got that, but he didn't. It's worth noting.

So that's where I stand in second. Yeah, I'm a little bit less understanding, I guess. He's still getting 13 and a half minutes per game, only shooting 25% on threes and 36% on field goals. That's just not good enough. So I'm going to go ahead and give him a D. I think he should show a little bit more. There was that role that Sadiq Bain.

got in the beginning of the season where he was just parked in the corner and he wasn't really doing much outside of that. I'd like to see that role for Seku if he's going to get these minutes. He still lacks coordination and that was a thing last season, but it almost feels like it hasn't picked up at all. And even though he's only 20, he's not the youngest guy in the NBA anymore. He still has pro experience. I would like him to have shown a little bit more improvement than this. So even though I know this not giving up on him and I'm not really upset with him, I'm still going to judge him on what he's shown. And so I will give him, you know, he's going to get the D-grade.

Fair enough. Next up, Josh Jackson, the team's de facto sixth man. So Jackson came to Detroit as a project player, his number four overall pick in 2016, player with a lot of talents who really suffered from on-and-off-court behavioral issues, ultimately it was largely the latter, I think, that led the sons to give up on him after only two seasons and sent him off to Memphis. And he played part of the year in the G-League in the 2019-2020 season. And ultimately, the Grizzlies chose not to, I believe, actually, he was still under his

rookie contract. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Either way, yeah, if that was the case, and I believe it was, then the Grizzlies didn't pick up his fourth year option. The Pistons picked him up for about four and a half million a year. Not a two-year deal. And he has really been hot and cold. When he's good, he's good.

When he's bad, he's real bad. And there are just some nights when he's just not working for him. But it's hard, but it was hard to find really a standout statistic for Jackson. He did, I'll go with this. he did over an eight-game stretch through late January into early February. Blogg, really, he was one of the best reserves in the league. He was 28 minutes per game, 18 points on a 49 from the field, 40 from 3-point range, 75 from the free throw line, which is really not great.

He really struggles from there. About 62% true shooting is fantastic. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to hold it up. So thoughts on Jackson. Yeah, Jackson's interesting to me because I don't really know if he fits this team long term. I know that people talk about, well, he's from Detroit. He has that dog in him, but you need floor spacing, especially from your wings. So I don't know how much role you want to give to a guy like Josh Jackson unless you have him coming off the bench where maybe he's just going to

beat guys with his size and athleticism. And maybe that's the best role for him. But I don't know what he's supposed to grow into without showing something more in terms of a three-point shot. Like I think he's shooting under 30 percent. And that's just not good enough, you know, especially right now with Hamadu Diallo and then a non-spacing three point, a non-spacing center, rather. He's really going to struggle to make this team better if he can't space the floor because his defender is going to sag off and he's going to make it harder for anybody else trying to drive to the basket. So I'm not as high on Josh Jackson long term.

There really are only maybe five guys on this team that I see as like having a defined role on a championship team. Josh Jackson isn't one of them. And unless he gets his three-point percentage up, I'm really not that high on him. When he's in attack mode, though, he's a lot of fun to watch, but there just aren't that many guys in the league

who can make their money off just attacking the basket. Josh Jackson, obviously, one of the more athletic guys in the league, that's probably why he went fourth overall, but it's just not enough. So I'm not very happy with his production, and I'm not exactly optimistic on him being a piston long term and contributing. So looking at his stats, even factoring in the two-week stretch where he was really good,

I would still have to give him a C-minus. Yeah, he sticks out for me like a sore thumb on this team, on this team of guys who almost without exception really, really don't think of themselves at all and just play a team for his game. Jackson is sort of an anomaly in that he really does look for a shot. Now, one of the issues that plagued him on the court in Phoenix was his shot selection. He would just take bad shots. He would take shots.

He would take shots he shouldn't. He had tunnel vision. And he back then he just didn't pass. I mean, now he passes. He's, well, not as much as he should. He's just super turnover for him when he does pass. His credit he's trying. But they still got that tunnel vision.

There are times when you see him on the way to the basket and you know he's going to shoot. Do you know he's going to go for a layup, brother? And the defense probably knows it too. So Jackson can have some big games. He also, unfortunately, has plenty of games in which he's scoring like 12 points on 14 attempts, and that's bad. On the season, Jackson is at 52% true shooting that is not good for a volume shooter, and he is one of the highest volume shooters on the team. It's actually season number two on the team after Jeremy Grant.

Aside from, you know, the departed Bros. and Griffin, nobody else. Is it double-figure field go attempts? Now, of course, Grant is way higher. than Jackson. He's at 18 in the season versus 11 for Jackson. But I would imagine that Josh is playing the way that Dwayne Casey would like. According to Casey, he coaches Jackson more than anybody else. He goes over a lot of film with him. But I just Jackson behaves on the court like adult at times. I hit to put it that way. He just makes bad decisions. And that doesn't really matter for the, you know, for the for the purposes of the pistons. It's

fine. You know, this is a rebuilding and development season in which to Pissons aren't aiming to play very much, but I, oh, not aiming to win very much, excuse me, but I agree with you. It's hard to see his long-term outlook because he still makes those bad decisions. And like you said, he's a poor floor spacer. Now, he's at a round on a wide-open threes. And I would imagine these, you can't really distinguish from this from the stats, but I would imagine that these are just straight spot-up threes.

He's at 36%. That's not a good figure for wide-open threes. We're talking wide-open means you have as much time as you need. more or less defenders at least six feet away from you when you take the you know when you set up for the shot but beyond that i mean you put a defender within six feet of him he goes down to 25 percent a lot of his threes are difficult you know high to height like shots he shouldn't be taking where he turns and fires and those are shots that some guys can make jackson is this is not one of those guys he's got a good you know good height of release like he really jumps high in the air it's tough to

block a shot, but it's a difficult shot to pull off. You're jumping super high in the air and his mechanics aren't the greatest. Really, his efficiency has stayed in the realm of the, you know, just remotely acceptable, remotely acceptable. I mean, he is a high, efficient. He has a high, volume, low efficiency score, but it stayed in the realm of the remotely efficient because he scores at a good clip in the restricted area, and that's not good enough just to do that. He is a good transition player. You know, take the ball down the court. He goes into a second gear when he gets inside the three-point arc. And once he does that and he gets the ball up around his head, it's very difficult to stop him. But you need to be able to shoot threes. I mean, even exclusive of the issues

with shots election, you have to be able to shoot threes, no ifs, ands or buts unless you have a fantastic skill in some other area and Josh Jackson does not. So I agree, it's tough to see his long-term outlook. I think he needs to continue to develop in terms of maturity. I mean, to his credit, he is only, oh, he's 24 now. I just turned 24 last month. But, yeah, I do like his mentality in terms of his toughness, but, you know, he's just, he's got to mature as a player just in terms of the decisions he makes,

and he's got to improve from the perimeter. So I got to agree with you. I give him a C-minus. I know this is just the sort of season where you want him to go out and do what he wants to do, but it's just, there needs to be personal development, well as development as a shooter. There are times, it's fun to watch them at times.

At other times, it is extremely frustrating, even though the pistons aren't trying to win. It's like, dude, why are you still taking these shots when you know that they're not likely to go in? And it's not okay for you to be making 45% of your shots in the interior. Or, I mean, he's doing better than that. But it's not okay to be making, you know, to be scoring like, like I said, like 12 points on 15 opportunities if we're including two free throws, is one opportunity. Also, his free throw suck.

You don't want to be in the mid-70s. Actually, I think what is Jackson at right now? I think he is at, his free throw is less than 70%. I mean, his free throw shooting sucks. And also one of the more, he has been a fairly good defender, not really good, but above average and switchable. He's extremely foul prone. He's more foul prone than anybody on a team who is not named

Mason Plumley. So, yeah, I agree with what you're coming from there. And finally, Isaiah Stewart. So I have a lot to say about Isaiah Stewart, probably more than any other player on the team, just in terms of how he's improved over the course of the season and just what he brings beyond just the stats alone. but yeah his

statistic and I'll say this well I'll go with this one I've got a couple I could bring up in terms of offensive rebounding percentage basically means the percentage of your offensive rebounds that you go for that you actually get

he's 10th in the league amongst centers and he does that alongside a number five mark and contested offensive rebound percentage. Your average offensive rebound is going to be contested, but it basically means that he's going for offensive rebounds through a lot of opposition and he's doing a good job of it. So I know I have a lot to say about him,

so why don't you go first, tell everyone what you think about how Stewart has done so far? Okay, yeah. In that case, I'll just keep it short. And I'll say this. people, including you, I think, are kind of wondering why he was picked over Sadiq Bay or why they would go with Stewart when Sadiq is still on the board if weaver was so high on him, all these questions. There were people who kind of looked at that and they were like, why would you take an off a traditional center who admittedly his stats aren't eye popping? But Stewart was brought in to be like this infectious energy guy and he's done that. Like he's somehow the first guy down the court at times, even though his contested rebound percentage is that high, which is incredible to me.

Like it's such a far cry from what we saw with Drummond and Jackson where like they would get the rebound. He'd stand there for a few more seconds. Like he'd swing his torso left and right to like really make a big show out of like, I got this rebound. And then he'd underhand toss the ball to Jackson who would walk up the court. And now we're seeing these guys getting on transition. And that's so much fun. And I think Stewart is a big part of that. Weaver has clearly put this emphasis on, I want guys who are going to run the floor hard, try really hard on defense. And the strength of that

is that when you have a bunch of guys who all do that, there is no, in theory, there's no weak point of the defense. And that's kind of like, if you're trying to win on defense, that's the way to do it. Have no individual weak link that you can target over and over. And I think that's part of why, like you alluded to it earlier, I think that's part of why Svi. with shift office because he was one of those guys. So I think Stuart has done his job. And there were people who were like, well, ignoring the energy and the culture aspect of it, well, you can't do that because that is what Stewart was brought in to do. And I think he does that. So I'm going to let you go. I'm going to defer to you. I want to hear what you have to say before I give a grade.

Okay. So, so Stewart, I would say without any reservations, is just one of those players who makes his team better when he's on the floor in a way that goes well beyond just his raw statistics. He, like you said, it was a real question mark. You know, why would you take this traditional center at this point in the middle of the draft? And he just, in terms of intangible, he is a very good player. On the court, he's not a bad player by any means. I mean, he's got a ways to go. And I mean, just in terms of what he provides in the score sheet, he's not I bet, player by any means, he's certainly got room to improve. But certainly it's impossible not to like the guy.

I mean, maybe if you're a fan of another team, obviously. But he's super hard worker. He's super intense and fiery. He's got that sort of Detroit basketball spirit you'd want. But he's had a genuinely good season so far. I mean, he's not playing a ton of minutes. But one statistic to look at, and of course, you always need to contextualize stuff like on-off, which is what I'm going to go with now.

But Stewart is the only player on the team, with the pistons, have a positive net rating, net rating, excuse me, which means they score more points than they give up with him on the floor. He also has by far the best on-off, which is the differential between the team's net rating when he's on the floor versus off. Should be noted, Josh Jackson is roughly equal to Jeremy Grant in terms of on-off rating.

They're both minus players in terms of net rating. but Josh Jackson, of course, is playing against significantly easier opposition than Jeremy Grant on average. Isaiah Stewart, he actually plays a fair amount of minutes. He's probably split between minutes against opposing bench and starters. But, yeah, the guy's plus three in his net rating. He's got a plus 11 on off. And like I said, you always have to contextualize these things. But I feel like statistics like defensive rating,

just the number of points per 100 possessions you're giving up when this player is on the floor, which, of course, has to be contextualized with his teammates and the level of the opposition. But I feel like for Stewart, more than with most players, you can really look at these and get a fair view of how he's performing. Now, Stuart can really, his performance this season can be separated into really a tale of too many seasons, but, you know, one much larger than the other. So he really struggled in this first couple weeks.

I mean, he was giving up 65% of the rim. The true shooting percentage, like 40s. 7.5, which is dreadful for anybody and terrible for a traditional big. And really, after that point, you know, whatever, it was just familiarization or whatever else, really he began to improve super rapidly. He's given off 52% of the rim since that period from, I believe, the 16th of January onward. That is excellent. He's at a 62.5% true shooting percentage, granted on volume, but that's quite good.

it's what you want to see from a guy who's attempting most of his offense from inside the paint. On the season, he's the team's best room protector. Plumley, as we said, it's just not been good defensively. I don't know if we talked at length about that, but Plumley, notwithstanding his blocks has struggled at the rim and it's just not a very good defender. He's a good defender probably, he's an average defender for a bench center and he's playing against starters. But, yeah, Stewart has been a lot more mobile than I expected on defense. He's done a fair job on switches. He's just smart. He's smart enough to have a good idea of where his opponent's going to go, even when he's switched onto a smaller guard. On defense against

opposing centers and even stronger, even the league's stronger forwards, he's not easily moved. He is very dense in terms of his body type. So if you try to drive right or drive left, I mean, you're not going to move him toward the basket. He's going to, he still stick with you, he's got long arms, and you're just going to have to try to go around him. You're not going to go through him. And this certainly applies to opposing centers as well. One recent play that sticks out is that Cody Zeller drove around him onto the basket,

and then went for just turned and went for a sort of reverse, where he was obviously going to try to push Stewart a little bit. Instead, he just bounced off of him, and he missed the basket. So Stewart knows where to be, and generally he's got real good defensive instincts, and he makes life difficult on his opponents. So that's nice. He's really, like I said, you got to contextualize defensive rating, but he's high up there as far as centers go.

Not in as many minutes. He's averaging about 18 and a half as, of course, the league's starting centers, but he just makes the defense a lot better. And in terms of rebounding, he's a very good offensive rebounder. He needs work as a defensive rebounder. He's well in the bottom half of the league in terms of defensive rebounding percentage. Because on offense, it's just about being sort of in the right place. And for him, he's difficult to move.

He's got long arms. So he's going to get those rebounds. But on defense, a lot of it's how high you can jump. I mean, it's not just establishing position. I mean, it's very helpful just to be able to jump high and grab the rebound out of the air. And Stewart is not a good first jumper. He's got to work on defense on defensive rebounding. The team is pretty bad.

to do his defensive rebounding team with him on the floor. On offense, he's got work to do. You see the beginnings of a game in which it could be fairly diverse. He's not the greatest role man yet, and that's partly just because he can't elevate to catch lobs, and that's definitely a disadvantage. He's done okay as a back to the basket score and just onto the basket in general, despite the fact that he can't just jump up and dunk the ball. I'd like to see him wearing the pump fake just to draw more fouls.

He's flashed a little bit of a mid-range game. He's got a nice stroke. he gets it off quickly. It starts right around his head. So he's got potential as a mid-range shooter. He's got potential as a three-point shooter. Mid-range, what I'm talking about, it's not so much mid-range is fairly close to the basket.

But if you can do that, and players have to play you closely, it helps to draw the opposing center out of the paint, and that's definitely an asset, even if you're just shooting from like 10 feet away, that's an asset for your teammates. You can get a pass on somebody who's driving, into the paints toward the basket, and the opposing center isn't necessarily

to be close enough to stop them. And Stewart has improved as a passer throughout the season as well. So, yeah, it's, of course, to be a plus offensive player, he's going to be able to, he's going to need to be able to contribute in some way substantively. So if he can become a decent shooter, then fantastic. He certainly got the touch, and that's a significant amount of the battle, so to speak. So, you know, I would give Stewart a, just somewhere between a B plus and an A minus, just based on what he was expected to contribute coming into the season. I think he certainly exceeded expectations.

I think you have to look at him beyond the score sheet. Because like I said, he just makes his teammates better. He makes the team in general better when he's on the floor. And just the intangibles. I mean, one of the reasons you want him to be able to become a better score. and be able to spend more minutes on the floor is just you want a guy like that on the floor as much as possible. And maybe my grade is informed just by the fact that I also just like him.

You know, it's impossible not to like the guy. Like you said, when he gets these rebounds, he's moving them, and then he's running down the floor. And it's a fair chance he's going to beat his opponent down the floor. So I just really like the guy who knows what his ceiling is, but whatever it is, you know, I think he'll be a fixture on the team for a while. I'd hope for the rest of his career, honestly,

just because he's just such a good character guy. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if he'll ever really become a viable starting center on a good team. I think if that's going to happen, you're going to have to have a bunch of good guys surrounding him. Again, it just comes down to offense. And, you know, if you were an athletic player, I mean, this is a guy who would have gone in the top 10 easily,

maybe higher than a Kongwu, but it's just the app. It's not that he's not strong. He's very strong. He's just not quick. He has enough in the way of smarts to stay in front of guys anyway. He's not explosive. He's not a good leaver.

That's his main, that's really his main drawback. So, yeah. Yeah, this guy had a call. I'm glad you brought that up. I didn't mean to cut you off. Oh, I'm just saying, I know there's been talk of him versus Plumley. And honestly, I couldn't tell you which one has been better. Now, Plumley is, you know, at best.

exactly as his counting stats would say, which is not very good. He's actually been a significant minus player as far as his on-off. I mean, part of his on-off is because he's playing, you know, his off is when Stewart is on the floor, and Stewart has been very good in terms of, I don't know, performing better than Plumley and just the team playing good ball when he's on the court. You've got to contextualize that the guy's Plumley is playing against. The Stewart has ended up on the floor plenty against starters when Plumley is in foul trouble.

and other things. Stuart has really learned to cut down his fouls. I don't have those stats in front of me, but he hasn't gotten to foul trouble much in the recent past. Yeah. So, yeah. I would agree with your A-minus. I'm judging him based on the energy that he brings, but also I think he still makes more sense as a bench player. I think even though you said you want this guy on the floor as much as possible, I think you still get a significant amount of the benefit. of having him on your team, whether he's on the bench or starting. And it's funny you mention Okongwu, because, yeah, if he had Okongwu's lift or bounce or whatever you want to call it, yeah, he'd probably be top 10. And he'd be a fantastic player because and then you're really rooting for him to get the jump shot under controller at an acceptable

level. But I don't see that happening. And I don't see him as a four, as some people have mentioned. I like him a lot more as a backup center providing really nice high, high pace offense and energy. And I think that's exactly the right role for him. So I really like his current fit. So as a backup center, who I really, really believe in, like long term as a contributor on a championship team, even just as a culture guy, I'd give him the A-minus. Yeah, what you said about playing before, I agree. You want him on defense in particular in the interior as much as he can. He's not all that mobile eye on the perimeter. I mean, he's been an effective three-point defender just because he knows where to be. And he's,

he has not easily fooled on pump fakes by any means. He stays on the floor and his arms are long enough that he knows how to position his arms as well. I mean, it's an interesting thing to see. He knows how to position his arms and position his body so that he can stop the three, but still be, but still be set low enough that he can get moving if, if, if, if his opponent drives in. And as you said, it doesn't really matter who you are, you know, short of maybe guys like Embed and even Embed, and even Embedd had trouble bullying him in the post.

So it doesn't really matter who you are. I mean, you're not going to be able to drive through him. And that's nice. Yeah, but as a power forward, yeah, you're playing him primarily on the perimeter on defense. Maybe, I mean, maybe you match him up against the center. If you've got another center on the fore, like, I don't know, Evan Mowgli, maybe.

Who knows? I mean, that Tim playing power forward is largely being brought up in the context. of drafting mobily. And sure, if you have a center who can defend more on the perimeter than cool, you just play Stewart in the paint or in the interior on defense. But yeah, I just, he's just not really, I think, mobile enough to be an effective power forward on offense. Yeah, he's probably more effective as a father. Absolutely.

Yeah, you don't, I mean, this is not six, seven years ago when your power forwards were not very mobile. I mean, these days you see, I mean, your average forward is, a combo forward. And a lot of them are not very big, but they're very quick. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Jeremy Grant. Yeah, like Grant, yeah. Or Jason Tatum, guys like that.

Or Tobias Harris, who is already a power forward. You know, sometime. He minds the best power forward still, because there are some native power forwards who just don't play well down to small forward, and he's quicker than there. But, but, yeah, just the kind of power forward who, you know, the smaller one who might play up to power forward just because he's quicker than his assignments. I mean, that distinction is fast disappearing. You have guys like Thadius Young. He have the most hilarious statistical comparison ever. It's like it's like the only guys to, you know, in the

season to average like 13.2 points or more than 1.4 blocks. And you remember what it was. It was completely ridiculous. Yeah. And it was like it was that exact thing. It was like Jordan. LeBron, Bird, and something like that. It was on the Pacers broadcast. It was completely ridiculous. No, wait, the Bulls, pardon me. Wait, who does he play for? I don't even remember.

I think it, yeah, whatever the case. I think it's... It was Indiana. It was Indiana because of Fox Sports. No, that statistic was by Indiana. Yeah, he used to play for the Pacers. Whatever the case, he... Yeah, I mean, they're guys like that still,

but they're not common guys who primarily, just play power forward and can't flex up to center. So, yeah, I mean, but Stewart just not being all that mobile, I mean, you want your forwards to be mobile. But, yeah, in any event, I think he's only going to be a viable starter. If you can get him up to averaging like 12 points a game, then great. Then you can probably keep him on the floor as your starter with a lot of minutes. But, you know, we'll see.

But I've been very impressed with how he's improved throughout the season. Yeah. So now we move on to the incompletes. So players who just haven't played enough games with the Pistons or enough time for us to give them, for us to reasonably give them a grade. So the first of those is Dennis Smith Jr. And I didn't go through and really come up with fun, you know, factoids for the for the incompletes. But we'll say about Dennis Smith Jr., really the only place has been strong has been on defense. I mean, it's been enjoyable to watch him there.

This sort of bulldog defender of the likes of, well, it's what they used to call the pit bulls, I believe, on the Pistons 2004 championship. The end of back-up backcourt was Mike James and Lindsay Honor. So they were really just defensive guys for the most part. Mike James had gone to become a fairly good starting point guard for a little while after that. So Smith is good there. I mean, he's very tenacious. He gets beaten by bigger guys sometimes. actually a fair amount of the time, but he's very tenacious.

He steals the ball a lot. He's, you know, for a point guard, especially when he's six two. I mean, blocks, you know, gets quite a few blocks. But has two major downsides, which continue, those being that is bad score. I mean, a guy has no way in which he can reliably score. Sometimes he'll hit some, you know, a string of really high degree of difficulty threes. But he's not going to make those on a regular basis. He's not a good catch and shoot, three-point guy.

And he can't effectively gain penetration. I think we're past the point at which you say he's not in game shape, from not playing much with the Knicks and then quarantining the bubble and then quarantining with Detroit. It's been a month. He can't effectively penetrate. When he does, he takes these big high bounds and people, you know, defenders gravitate toward him and then he passes the ball.

That's good for him. But for the most part, he can't. can't penetrate and score at the basket. And you can't penetrate. It means you can't break down opposing defenses. And he does, he really does most of his, is playmaking on the perimeter. That's of limited value. And when he's on the floor with Mason Plumlee, Plumlee, he's doing a lot of the interior playmaking. So Smith's getting an extended audition. Unless he improves, I don't see him in the team next season, except for maybe as a minimum contractor at string point guard. And it should mention that his qualifying offer is in excess of $8 million, I believe.

The Pistons don't need to qualify him in order to maintain his bird rights as if they don't qualify him, and they almost certainly won't, barring like a superstar second half. It just means that he's not a restricted free agent. They can't match offers. They can still retain him and go above the cap to do so. So those are my thoughts about Dennis Smith, Jr. really hasn't been good for the Pistons. You know, he, at the weather he's playing right now, he would be like a, he'd be a third string point guard and a decent team. Yeah. It's really interesting that the discussion has been Dennis Smith Jr. versus Sabin Lee and how affected those two are.

And I'm just going to roll straight into Sabin if you have nothing else to say, Dennis. Yeah, Sabin, I believe in his play style is like a long-term thing far more than I do, Dennis. He's just a lot more exciting. and his game seems a lot more repeatable. He's impressed me a lot. Like I didn't think about him much after the draft. Like usually you get really excited about these new draft picks, and especially with Troy Weaver being this guy who had a reputation

as like finding, you know, talent all over the place. But I didn't really think about Saban. And then he came in and now he's like splashing threes. I mean, on very low volume. But the most impressive thing is that this 21-year-old is getting into the paint with ease and creating offense. and it's probably better than most other people on the team like that. It's really a lot of fun to see.

And I think Saban can be the long-term backup point guard solution. I really like his two-man game with Isaiah Stewart. Those guys both play hard and fast, and they're trying to push the pace down the floor, and that'll be a lot of fun and it'll bring energy off the bench. So I'm really happy with Saban. Excited to see how he does in the second half. Yeah, it's fun to watch.

He's definitely got some sectors. of his game he needs to refine. Number one is perimeter shooting, of course. I mean, it's been a little bit ugly because, I mean, he had some decent games from three his first two games, but he's got a slow release. He's really hesitant to use it. He'd rather drive into the paint, and that's not going to fly in the NBA. He gets stopped most of the time, and he tries to do that because the center comes over.

And that brings me into the second area of his game that I think he really needs to modify, which is his willingness to be aggressive. He is aggressive. but when you built up that head of steam, you got to drive into the center or into another player and go for a foul. That was really his thing at Vanderbilt was that he drew a ton of fouls. He's got to improve as a free throw shooter as well. Seem and high 70s is not where you want to be.

But it's just ugly in the offense right now because he just drives in instead of taking a three. Reminds you a little bit of Ish Smith, but without the pull-up jumper, guards like Ish Smith are not viable in this league anymore if you, you know, if you want to have an effect. to back a point guard. He's got to be able to shoot. But it's been fun to watch. He's real athletic. He is certainly quite good at getting into the interior. That's fun. It's a useful skill. It's certainly one that distinguishes him from Dennis Smith, Jr., who just absolutely can't do it. You see the degree to which Sabin is able to break down

defenses by getting close to the basket. He's been better than I thought at at passing off of those as well, and effectively passing off of those, because I know it was a real question mark as to his effectiveness as a passer coming in. So he does, I think, need to work on that to a degree. And he, because he really, I feel like, just decides what he's going to do before he drives in.

He's also, he's not a weak side passer at all. A weak side means a non-dominant hand and the ability to pass behind him. and just hit guys off weakside in general, really in stride. A lot of point guards can't do that, to be fair. A lot of backup point guards anyway. But he's young. He's got space to grow.

He's only about 21 and three quarters, but still pretty young. He's scored at a good rate in the restricted area. When he's drove in for a layup, He hasn't actually done that great, but he moves well off the ball. He seems to know where to be. And he can often beat his defender by just shifting, by faking one way and then going to the other and driving in driving the pain off the ball. He's also fairly shifty off the drive. But as far as transition, I think he needs to be more aggressive.

He generally stops a three-point line if there's any opposition. and with the speed he has down the floor. Again, I think, you know, he can either score by leaping or he can draw a foul. And it's no fun to be constantly getting a knock to the grounds, but that might just be his role. Nonetheless, I think he has more to offer than Dennis Smith Jr. He's been reliable enough on defense as well. I saw him calling out assignments at times. He's got long arms.

Dennis Smith Jr. has 6-2 with a 6-4 or 65 wingspan. That's not good. It makes it hard for him to switch and saving to a degree can switch. And he definitely doesn't back down. it's been fun to watch. And we'll see extended go with him at backup point guard now because Dennis Mitt Jr. is out for an undefined period of time due to health and safety protocols.

So that's how I feel about Lee. Anything to add? Nope. We can move on to Hayes. I mean, he's probably the last guy that's really worth saying. Yeah, for the most part. I mean, Hayes, we know, looked like really bad early on. And who knows, he'll be coming back soon.

It'll be interesting to see. I don't think he'll play a shooting guard. I don't think that's this long-term position. I mean, who knows, you have two guys, you know, if he has a good point guard next to him, whoever that might be. Yeah, I don't know. I just, I'm waiting and seeing. By all accounts, the organization is very confident about him.

So we'll see. I don't think it's really fair to judge a player like Hayes on his first seven games. I mean, a player like Hayes, I mean, is coming into a completely different league because he was playing it at the level below EuroLeague. and came in an offseason where he had really no space to adjust through the usual ways of Summer League and preseason, which was very short and the training that he might have needed. We all know what he needs to improve upon,

which is a lot, ability to drive in, ability to use his right hand as a shooter and so on and so forth. But there's time. I don't need as much to say beyond. Yeah. You've said that you think it's not that he sucks. You can talk about the shooting guard thing another time. Yeah, that was part of it.

But the shooting guard thing kind of stems from, like, what he has in his ability right now. And that'll be something we have to watch for. If he does end up coming back when this is supposed to. It'll be this week they're supposed to reevaluate him. And I do hope that he comes back and that he does get that run as a true point guard. Because maybe he was just uncomfortable with the physicality and the size of the NBA. That's definitely something that I want him to do. be good at it.

And the league believes that he can be Goran Dragich, which maybe that's not the best name, like the most exciting name, but Dragich is a good player. And I think that's reasonable because Dragich wasn't the most athletic guy either. And I don't think Hayes is, but it was still very useful. And he was a smart player. And that's kind of what you want to see from Hayes. So I'm excited to see what he can do. Yeah, we'll see.

I know we had disagreements as to who was going to be better between him and Lamello. I think that's been answered. I also think Lamello would have been a trap player. for Detroit because I feel like you, I don't know if he'll ever be a star. Who knows? I think you would have been good enough to make Detroit better than they wanted to be this season. But who knows? I mean, that's a completely moot point. So our last three players, and this is completely, this won't be of much interest to anybody, but we'll go with it. Okifor played a short time before losing the backup point guard slots to Isaiah Stewart, has been injured for

some time, and then had surgery. We'll be out for some time further. I would be surprised to see the pistons, release Frank Jackson. That's a player who's not really worth mention. He's played very few minutes, and there are just a boatload of point cards on the team now and sign a center just for the rest of the season to that second two-way slot, particularly if Saban Lee ends up getting upgraded. Saban Lee, what you can do with a two-way contract is you can upgrade it to a standard NBA contract, and they'll want to do that with Sabin just to get him on a multi-year deal.

But Elko for, you know, we've said it before on this podcast. He has hardly anything in the way of NBA skills. He's a fairly good score under the basket. That's it. He's not quick. He's not explosive. He's a bad defender. He can't shoot.

You know, he can shoot with him like six or seven feet of the basket, but he didn't really do that very much. He's not a good passer, and he has no upside. I don't know why he's on this team in a two-year contract. And I wouldn't be surprised to see him, to see him shown the door next season,

the pistons just wave him and eat his very small cap hit. they'll be over the cap anyway. They can replace him with another minimum contract center. I do you have anything to say about Okina? I'm guessing no, just because there's not much else to say beyond that. Magruder, who has come in and given the Piston some decent minutes lately. McGruder is a fringe NBA player who will get time with the Pistons because Casey likes him for his leadership and hard work. And because the Pistons are short on guys, now he moves Svi.

and, you know, Dial will be out for a little while. He's still recovering from an injury. And McRuder will probably get some minutes of shooting guard. And then David is Servitas, otherwise known as Dave, who has, it's been really bizarre. He's hardly gotten any time at all, even in garbage time. And, you know, I'd make my typical jokes about him being held out to avoid ruining competitive integrity in the NBA,

you know, because he's just that good. but reality of the matter for me is it's entirely possible that he drafting him was a crony move in the first place I don't see any reason why he was brought over to the United States right now to burn a year of his entry-level contract when he doesn't seem like he's ready at all it's like whatever it is what it is yeah yeah that still remains a head scratcher but yeah whatever I mean you could have had uh could have had bowl you could have had um yeah Casey I don't think he's been very good. But, yeah, those are just higher upside players. And I know it said, but they didn't want another guarantee contract

and we wouldn't have wood in that case. And it's like, I disagree. You don't sign Tim Frazier. Bruce Brown was clearly thought of as a potential point guard. He ended up playing a lot of point guard last season. And Tim Frazier was a fringe NBA players out of the league now. All right. And second to final segment here, we'll just do it real quick,

just a retrospective of the season so far. So where are the Pistons? Most important staff, the 29th and wins, and hopefully that will continue. Hopefully they will be 30th and wins by the end of the season. But there are some teams coming up on their heels, the Cavs, Kings, and the Rockets. 24th in offensive rating, pretty much what was expected.

I mean, this team doesn't have a lot of firepower by any means. 18th in defensive rating, not terrible. 23rd in that rating, which is, and that's it's not as bad as it looks. actually. If you look at the teams that are in really bad shape now, the Pistons are the best of the lots. Minnesota at negative 7. Pistons are at negative 3.7. I think, yeah, high negative 3s. I had this pulled up, but I've got like 50 tabs open and I just don't want to go through them right now. But Minnesota's at negative 7.3. Cleveland's at negative 8.2. Orlando's at negative 7.2. I don't think that'll last with Orlando, but we'll see. Houston's negative 5.3 despite a decent start. Sacramento, negative 4.9. The pistons have turned the ball over a lot. 24th and that. 26th and effective field goal percentage. 23rd and true shooting percentage.

It's hilarious that these pistons are better in terms of efficiency than a bunch of pistons teams of the recent past who are trying to compete, at least in placement and true shooting. Like the pistons, yeah, have been like bottom five so many years. A slow pace. Part of that was due to Griffin. Still bad without him. That's partly on the lack of guys who can create,

partly on just the poor roster in general and partly on Dwayne Casey. Middle of the road in terms of opponent's second chance points, opponent fast break points, opponent turnover points. They've been pretty bad in the paint. 25th in terms of paint points are rendered. And so on and so forth. I really should have looked up the offensive stats. Honestly, this episode is becoming extremely long as it is.

The Pistons have not been a good offensive team by any means. they haven't been horrifically bad, but they have not been good. As far as lineups, just a couple things. Most effective duo will go through. Honestly, there are very few five-man lineups featuring guys who are, you know, at least one player, excuse me, featuring all players who are still on the team. But most effective duo, minimum 250 minutes. Isaiah Stewart and Jeremy Grant.

Stewart is in four of the top eight duos by net rating. Least effective, Ellington and Plumley, and Plumley is in four of the bottom eight. in terms of net rating. All right. All that being said, let's move on to the final segment. That is Jonathan Cominga. All right, yeah. So we love the draft here.

At least I do. And there's a good shot that the Pistons have a top five pick. And I think Caminga might be one of those guaranteed top five guys. So he's a six-eight wing on the G-League Ignite. And he's probably been the biggest beneficiary of the G-League bubble, which is now over at this point. The Ignite end of getting knocked out in the first round. They barely made the G-League playoffs, and then they faced up against Toronto or the Raptors 9-05,

and it ends up being one of the best G-League teams of all time. But he's, I think, pretty much the consensus number five or four guy on most boards. But he's shown some stuff that has raised his ceiling considerably. Starting with the fact, he's already got a very NBA-ready body for an 18-year-old. And one of the benefits of playing against older competition is that you get to see how these guys handle the physicality, the strength and the IQ of these older guys. And comminga has looked like the most physically gifted player in the floor, regardless of this.

He has a very strong frame already, and the foundation is already there. The fear, though, with these super athletic guys is that they're just going to be dominating the younger, or their equivalent age with size. But comminga has shown real craftiness and finesse getting to the rim using dribble moves, spins, and this really nice first step, which surprised me, actually. I didn't know he had that. And there's very little doubt in my mind that he translate that part of his game to the next level. He's even shown some really nice passing, especially dump-boss when he gets penetration.

But you have to contextualize all this with percentages, and that's where the wheels kind of fall off for me. He's shooting 38% on field goals and under 25% on threes. And you just can't get away with that in the NBA, especially since this is such an important draft for the Pistons, I think this one, you kind of have to get your first option or that tier of. of player and a guy who's shooting that poorly, I don't have much faith that he's going to become that guy ever in his career. San Vesini of the Athletic, who's been watching him far longer than I have, has said that his form looks a lot better now, and it's more consistent and mechanically sound, but if the touch isn't there, it just isn't there. So I don't know what the issue would be at this

point, but if he's, if he looks, if it looks good and it's still only going in a quarter of the time, that doesn't bode very well. So personally, three-point percentage is probably the single most important thing to me when looking at guards and wings. So I just struggled to see him adding another 12% to become like an above-average three-point shooter and become a guy who can lead your offense and become the guy who's generating opportunities. And if he does, I imagine it'll take him a while to get there. So having such a bad outside shot, defenders are going to sag off.

and that's just, they're just going to let him shoot that inefficient jumper. So he's a guy who that, if the Pistons do fall to fifth, maybe he's the last guy there, you can still be happy with him. And we'll probably deep dive maybe later this year. But he's got a lot of good qualities. The main thing, really, is just the lack of a jump shot. So that should be the main thing that Jonathan Kamenga is working on. I still think he is a Weaver type player.

and if Weaver thinks he can fix his jump shot, great. That'll be something to watch. So another very interesting prospect in the upcoming draft, and one that I wouldn't be thrilled to get, but I wouldn't be upset. Yeah, I agree with you on shooting, definitely. I mean, you're far better educated under these prospects than I am. Like I've said, I probably won't really start looking into potential draftees until much closer to the draft.

And by reports have stated for the NHL that they'll probably keep their draft in July, and I hope that the NBA will do the same thing. It would be, and I think they will. Maybe there will be the desire to play Summer League. I hope so. It will more like the Fall League, but you'll leave the draft until later. It just gives the players so much less time to work out with an NBA team before the end of the season. excuse me, before the start of the season.

But, yeah, I definitely agree with you. I mean, three-point shooting for anybody but a center and even increasingly for centers this league, excuse me, these days, because in today's NBA, not being able to shoot even as a center as a significant drawback. And, you know, your best centers,

with the exception of Rudy Gober, all guys who can shoot, and maybe even Jared Allen, who books to be on track to become the second best traditional center in a continually dwindling class of traditional centers. I think maybe even he will learn to shoot. But if you're talking, a guard, you know, pretty much in any position, a guard or forward.

I mean, a three-point shooting is the essential skill. It is the essential skill that most of all you cannot do without, unless you are a player like Janus, for example. And even then, you've got to have the right teammates around you. So, yeah, you're taking a big risk if you draft a guy in whose shot you're not really very confident. There are some guys who pick it up, like Jalen Brown and Kauai Leonard, who both shot in the high 20s in their final seasons at college. Jalen Brown, it was a one and done. Kauai did two seasons?

But it's a matter of touch. I mean, do you think with Kumenga, he's got a good touch and that could improve, or is that a question as well? That's the main thing. Like, if his form is there and it's still just not going in at an acceptable rate, I don't know what he's supposed to improve from this point on. I mean, so no, I do believe that some players just don't have touch, and maybe Cominga is that guy. But Sam Vesini says he's a very hard worker.

He carries himself very well, so I don't know what the issue is. Yeah, but we'd have to see. It's definitely a big concern, and it's absolutely something you look at. Hard worker or not. Unfortunately, there are those guys out there. I mean, you can look at the dudes like Andre Robeson prior to his injury was a fantastic perimeter defender. but he couldn't shoot. No matter what he couldn't shoot.

He worked hard on his shot, but he couldn't shoot. Tony Allen, I've heard it said, could make his threes in practice, just not in the game. Sometimes you can be a super hard worker, and some people don't have it. And a lot of those guys are out of the league now. So, yeah, that's definitely something about which you need to be concerned. And at this point, yeah, it just, I was going to talk about. about the Pissons draft. I mean, I've talked about that point already.

So, yeah, that'll be it for today's episode. It would be very helpful. If any of you willing to go over to Apple Podcast, give us a good rating, just for the sake of the visibility. And, yeah, as always, thank you for listening, and we'll catch you next time.