Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 38: Mailbag

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

This episode answers questions submitted by listeners and concludes with a profile of prospective 2021 top-five draft pick Jalen Green.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Driving to the Basket. I'm Mike. I am here with Dante and Tommy. We are recording this episode on the 20th of March, actually the day after the, in some ways, unfortunate victory against the rockets. It is five days away from the trade deadline, which is Thursday, March 25th. So, you know, we're all hoping to see some movement from the pistons on that day. There have been, the pitch. Pistons really tied to trade deadline rumors, and in particular, Wayne Ellington, to a lesser, but still a significant degree at DeWan Wrights, and then to a less degree than that, Mason Plumley. So I'm sure in the next episode, we usually record over the weekends we'll have a lot to talk about, with respect to that.

Today, we are going to actually answer some questions. We were given by members of the Detroit Pistin subreddit Discord. Any of you who want to get place to discuss the person should check it out. The link is, when can be found in the subreddit. And thank you to everybody who submitted questions for this episode. So is there anything either of you, Tommy Dante, want to add before we get rolling? No, I'm excited to answer these questions. I don't.

Yeah, we go right in. I don't know any of them. So I'm ready to go. Okay, okay. So question number one, with focus. on the core four, do you ideally see any pieces around them on the team currently that could fit nicely going into the future without hindering their minutes and developments? What do you say, Tommy? The only guy that I kind of really want to keep, I guess this kind of ties in with the

deadline a little bit. It's probably Plumly, and I know Dante, you're shaking your head at me, but I really do think that he plays as well, really, his role really well. He doesn't take the ball out of the young guy's hands. He keeps them moving, and he provides enough spacing that There are still like some decent driving lanes, but he also isn't good enough that he's making the team significantly better. I think we can keep him and still continue to lose. And I think he can probably stick around for maybe the next two or three years of his contract. And I think he's a good piece to keep.

So that's the only guy that I really see right now who's. Well, we're talking outside. Yeah, we're just talking to the outside core four. So, I mean, this is just outside of Bay. Killian Hayes and Isaiah Stewart. Yeah. I mean, I know she probably goes without saying that today you're talking Grant as well, but maybe else be able to be on those guys.

Yeah. Other than that, probably not a ton. I really like, I guess the big question maybe would be Josh Jackson. I don't know how you guys feel about him. I'm not that high on him. I feel like even though this week he played a lot better, he was passing it a lot more. I just don't know what his role would be on a championship. team, especially with the usage he kind of takes up off the bench.

I know he's pretty dynamic, really fun to watch, but I think he kind of takes the ball out of the other players' hands a little too much for how inefficient he is. So I don't know how you guys feel about him. Well, I would say just to address the question as a whole. Yeah, I don't think anybody should be untouchable. Obviously, we touched on this last week a little bit, but it's just like, look, the pistons historically and even still now are not in a position to be. declining value in favor of talent and skill and being able to win right now.

So yeah, Tommy, I don't necessarily disagree with what you have to say about Plumley, but at the same time, like, if the value is there and a team is willing to give you something that we can judge to be of equal or greater worth than Plumley is, I mean, I think you should take it, right? I don't, as our young guys kind of expand their game, I think it's safe to assume that Plumley's role would probably diminish and then by default his numbers would diminish as well. And that's kind of, I think those inflated numbers of bit are kind of driving his value. I don't really see his value getting much higher.

So if this is the peak of that, I would probably unload him for something that we deem to be good enough. And then as far as sticking around, I mean, I'd love to see Grant stick around. But like Troy Weaver said, if you offer a bunch of first round picks and they're good and the values there, there's not much of a conversation to be had. You kind of have to do it. So I think that's a tough question to answer unless we know what exactly the compensation is. But I would say everyone is probably available aside from the core four.

It's just going to depend on what's offered. Yeah, I think the essence of the question, I believe more just centered around which pieces on the team can fit into the team's future conceivably as it hopefully advances toward championship contention, which I think it bears, I think it bears mention that the, that's a ways off in the future. This is, I think Weaver is in ways, in some ways done an impressive job.

I've been pleasantly surprised, but this is year one. I mean, there's a long way to go before the Pistons have, hopefully not in terms of time, hopefully not a long way to go, but in terms of the roster. So, you know, without hindering, so it was about without hindering the minutes

and development of the core four, Here's what I have to say about the core four. I mean, I think there are four players who can be useful. I think that however he might feel about Sadiq Bey, I know he's been better than expected and, you know, in what he can be. Though I don't think that's just owing to is really his blackwester half-court athleticism. I don't think that's going to be star level, but who knows, maybe Bay could be, say, the third best player in a championship team if he can really expand his offerance of a repertoire

and really improve as a defender. probably the two core pieces to a championship roster are not yet with the Pistons yet. Maybe Grant. Okay. Yeah, I left that aside. Maybe it's Jeremy Grant can be that number two guy. Again, that would take some further improvement from him as well. Because you really, you want to win a championship these days.

You really, really have to have those two elite scores and, you know, preferably more, obviously. But, yeah, you look at every team that is won a chance. championship in the recent past. I guess, but the Raptors, you could say, okay, who was there, a lead second score? I guess that was Kyle Lowry, but those guys, those cats weren't going to win a championship. If Durant and Thompson had not gone out injured, I mean, I think the chances the Raptors winning that were very low. So I think in any discussion of the Corps 4, you have to keep that.

I think it's worth keeping that in mind that the teams. At the very least, the team's going to win a championship. The best player on it is not there yet, and it's possible that the second best player is not there yet either. So, but if we're thinking about, and yeah, it's like you said, Dante, you have to be willing, really, to make the right move in any situation. I've seen it said, well, the Pistons have haze. Should they draft somebody who's not going to be as on the ball?

And the answer is no, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. in the draft when you wear the pistons go for the player who is going to offer you the most value toward that championship of course absolutely yeah you consider what you have on the roster already it's not just oh bpa give it to me but i mean for example it's like hey cunningham shirt i don't know if he'll be a lead ball handler he'll be a ball handler you don't look at him and say well you already have hayes and so we're going to pass on him like no not no million years absolutely not hayes has played seven games right and i know i know all of us are not uh we're not down on it by any means like i i'm i'm fairly confident that hayes can be an effective NBA player but

to think that we're in a position to decline talent based on what's already on the roster is just foolish yeah yeah i agree it's absolutely not yeah but yeah you look at for example i mean there's there's a there's an example currently on the roster dennis smith junior was drafted i believe that's blanking on it right now. It's the seventh, eighth, ninth, I can't remember. He was drafted fairly high in 2017. And of course, the next season or the next summer, the Mavericks traded up to, you know,

they had the opportunity to take Luca Donchich, if they hadn't, probably would have been Trey Young. And I would guess that there wasn't even a micro-second of thought about Dennis Smith when you had access to Luca Dantzich. As there shouldn't be, Right. Yeah, as it shouldn't be. Yeah. So, but if we're looking at guys on the roster, I'm not too concerned about impeding the development, so to speak, of those core four pieces. I mean, you might think about Saving Lee a little bit just because there are a lot of, there are a lot of point guards on the roster right now, and who knows. I'd be curious to ask Troy Weaver exactly what he sees in Saving Lee. That's really so special. I don't think, I don't know, I think. He could be a good backup point card. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

But so, Sadiq Bay is really going to project as, I think, you're long-term one of your forwards. I don't think there's really much worry about anybody currently on the roster. He's already at the head of that death chart. Isaiah Stewart, you know, let's see what he can become. He very well could be a career backup, and that's fine. A career backup who brings a lot of intangibles. It's really tough to see his ceiling right now,

but it's really as vertical explosiveness and mobility. That's his inability to play above the rim. This is real shortcoming at the NBA, and it's a big one. And Killian Hayes will see what we have. And the only way you're really going to put roadblocks in front of Stewart or Hayes are if you get yourself another point guard or if you get yourself another center and you don't get rid of Plumley. I fully agree with Dante that the, that Plumbley has no place

He sees he is absolutely not indispensable. Maybe he's a good character guy behind the scenes, but for a team that's actually aiming to succeed, his decent backup center, but not particularly special in any respect, and he can't space the floor. Yeah, no, I agree. I totally agree with you, Mike.

Plumley's really, he's really nothing special. I mean, as a backup center, completely agree with you. I think he'd be a good option, but the role that he's been, yeah, it's like the role that he's been forced into right now is just not optimal relative to winning, right? It really truly isn't.

You can see that with the team's record. So if we can get any value for him, honestly, I would take it. Tommy, I know you love him, but we'll see how it goes. I'm excited to see what comes to the next five days or so. Yeah. And beyond that, you have Hamadu Dielo. I think, I mean, Troy Weaver has come out and said he sees him as a court piece going forward. Just a young guy with a lot of athletic upside and a great attitude.

Josh Jackson agree with you, Tommy. It's hard to see, but he was a project player. If he doesn't work out next season, you cut ties. Yep. But if he grows to equip somebody in the starting lineup, I don't know, maybe Josh Jackson becomes your viable starting shooting guard. He's played a lot of his minutes, and if so fantastic, I don't know if that's likely, but if the piston is...

I kind of think that's what they're going for. They're brought in a lot of these guys who are like long, really athletic guys who, their jump shot is their question. I think the idea is you get enough of these guys, maybe one of them learns to shoot, and that's really good high value. I mean, they've got Dennis Smith, Josh Jackson, Seku, who's not looking his best right now, but he's still a fairly athletic and raw athlete. And then Hamidoo to Diallo. If one of these guys hits, none of these guys cost very much, so that's a great value. That's a great point. I don't think Dennis Smith, Jr. will be on the team next season, just with who's already around and the fact that it wasn't all that special when he came into the league.

I don't know really what's been lost because he can barely penetrate now. And I think we're far past the excuse that he's that he's not in game shape. I mean, it doesn't take that long to get back in the game shape. So, but, yeah, I've been pretty unimpressed. Maybe a third string point card, maybe. And Seku, I would say, operates really on the fringes of this. question just because, and I feel I should reiterate this, Saku was drafted by a team that was aiming to contend at the time, this was in 2019, and he was drafted purely as an upside player,

purely based on potential. He was extremely raw. He was on the opposite end of the spectrum from those players who were expected to come in and contribute immediately. He was not expected to contribute for years. And I think it's, I think if the G League were in existence, right, or were an option right now, I don't think the conversation. about Secker's future would really be being had. No doubt. Yeah, but yeah, so I hope we adequately answered that question. I know we meandered a bit, but I think the players who don't really have a future in this

context are probably fairly obvious. Delon Wright, Wayne Ellington, you know, Magruder and Julio L'Ocavur, of course, is the, you know, cannot be stopped, but, yeah. Just kidding. I still don't. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just waived at the end of the season. I mean, it's really, he's on a minimum deal. The Pistons might just spend their cap space and then get rid of him.

And since, oh, they don't even need to spend their cap space first. If you waive Okafort, you still have to pay him next season. It's like $2.5 million or, I think, less than that. But it really doesn't matter. All right. So second question, do you think Casey's system is playing the strengths of the rookies, a development of the rookies, if not why? Don't you take it away, Dante?

I think it depends on the rookie. Like I would say someone like Sadiq Bay, for example, I was very critical of doing Casey early on in the season. I thought Bay should have been given a bigger role. I thought he should have received more playing time. And then when he was on the floor, what he was asked to do, I thought was not really playing into his strengths. But as the season has kind of progressed here, you know,

I credit where credits do. We've seen Sadiq sort of blossom. And I think that blossoming has a lot to do with what he's been enabled to do within the offense. You know, you see him getting a lot of touches. He's very clearly got the green light as far as you can shoot it pretty much whenever you want. And then he's operating, you know, inside of the three-point line, right, too. He's operating in the paint a little bit. He's doing things that we rarely saw him do early on in the season.

And you can only attribute that to Casey. telling him that it's okay and that he has kind of free reign to experiment and expand his game a little bit. So if you're talking about Sadiq Bay, I do think Casey's system is playing to his strengths. Isaiah Stewart kind of the same deal. Actually, almost exactly the same deal. We've seen him expand his game more and more as the games go on. Now he's shooting a little bit. Instead of pick and roll, it's pick and pop.

He's getting a lot more post touches, specifically when he has mismatches. we just saw this last night against the Rockets. I think they went to him in the post three, four times in a row, and he had very effective play there every single time. So, yeah, I think it's contextual, depending on the rookie. But so far, so good. I am impressed with how Casey's handling it, and this is coming from someone who is not afraid to be,

well, none of us are, none of us are afraid to be critical of Casey. But I am willing to put a feather in his cap for this. I'm curious to know if your guys' thoughts have evolved as the season has gone on because mine has. Yeah, definitely. I think this is Casey's best season as the Pistons coach. The offense looks better. The development of the rookies is really encouraging. And that's one of the main things that's giving me, like, hope for Killian is that the other rookies look so good.

And it's interesting that you mentioned that these guys were brought along slowly, and that seems to have worked for them. Because I know that we were all really frustrated. It was like, yeah, we can see that these guys can do more. and maybe that has to do with the fact that Sadieke was a bit older than Killian and I think Stewart is, what, 19 and Killian was 18. They're about the same age, but Stewart is just much more equipped for his game. He's already very, very strong and built well for this.

And then there was Killian who, while these other guys were brought along very slowly, killing was thrown straight into the fire. And then Casey even said, maybe he did him a disservice there by doing that. And I kind of have to agree with that. I think Killian should have come off the bench to start because one of his issues was athleticism. I think he really struggled with that. So I definitely agree with you, Dante. I think it depends on the rookie.

Sadiq and Stewart, yeah, absolutely. I think they were brought along exactly the right way. They weren't overwhelmed. It didn't look like that at any point. With the exception of maybe that stretch of a few weeks where Sadiq was getting really inconsistent minutes for what appeared to be no reason, maybe there's something behind the scenes. I think Casey has done a really, really good job bringing these guys along. at the right pace.

And I hope that he does that with Killian when he returns. So I would say here's the thing about Dwayne Casey. It's very well documented what he does off the court, how active he is in the developments and just the day-to-day of his young players when they're not in game. Now, what's less clear, well, this is actually not less clear. In general, Casey is not a very detail-oriented or very active on-court coach, so to speak, in terms of how even in terms of stuff like running plays, which apparently he does very little. But just in terms of how tightly he coaches, basically the degree of direction given to his players within, you know, in the context of operating within.

the system. And that certainly stretches to his, especially his veterans, who just historically have been given tremendously free reign. I don't know how it goes when it comes to his younger players. They've generally had a shorter leash. I'm not sure how closely he's coaching what they do on the court. I would say probably somewhat closely. But there is a confounding factor of the veterans not being coached anywhere near as much. So when it comes to Killian Hayes, for example, I found it really frustrating the way he was handled early in the season. Of course, he's only played early in the season.

Yeah, he was put out there, and I don't know what instructions he was given, but it's clearly the offense basically boiled. I know Casey was saying we didn't want him to do too much, but basically Killian would go in, and his job would, when he was on the floor with the starters, be to give the ball to Blake Griffin at the three-point line and then just hope that somebody would pass it to him later in the possession and a lot of time he would just do nothing. I mean, a lot of the time he would just stand out in the perimeter and do nothing.

And I would, I found myself yelling at the TV a couple of times when watching Griffin take the ball from Hayes and then post up as his defender from halfway, you know, from, excuse me, from like a few feet inside the three-point line and just back him down. and then maybe a few seconds later, Hayes' defender would come onto Griffin, who would continue backing down. It might take him eight seconds to get to the net. Hayes would have been open for a solid five seconds with no one near him. Griffin completely ignored him despite the fact that he was facing the three-point line,

and then he would just go for a bad post hook through double coverage and miss it. And in situations like that, it's like, well, is this what Dwayne Casey is directed, that Killian really just be left tremendously on the perimeter? probably I would hope not and it does seem unlikely. So is it all Blake Griffin's fault? Or is he, you know, is he just completely stupidly ignore, absolutely ignoring this rookie who was out in the perimeter? You know, pass the ball, man. This is a low percentage shot.

You got somebody wide open. Why aren't you passing it? It's hard for me to believe that that was all Blake Griffin either because he just didn't really do that. So in that scenario and just the way that killing is handled, it's like, Casey, what are you doing? like literally you're just you're pandering you're not even letting the guy take spot up threes you're not running pick and rolls I mean Killiam would call for

pick and roll from Mason Plumley who would just ignore him and is that Plumley I find that hard to believe is this not operating within case his scheme why hasn't he doing anything about it so I think the way he handled killing was very poor basically he didn't get to play to any of his strengths he was constantly on the periphery and it seemed like there was kind of a

of confidence there and it's like as well with the you know where where hayes was concerned so so when it came to hayes i would say it was handled badly and whatever you want to say about should he have been the starting lineup or not and kasey wasn't going to start rose so it was a little of a moot point so i don't really know how he would have gotten around this without playing killing at shooting guard i guess you could yeah you started dylan rights at their point guard but no i don't know anyway they kind of did that a little bit had dylan handling the ball a lot with Killian and the early goings. Yeah, but Killian got to do nothing.

You put DeLan right on the floor with another point guard. DeLan's going to be the point guard. That's the issue with keeping him on the roster. And he said it, yeah, he said, I'm a point guard. I like to play on the ball. So I don't see much merit in keeping him on the roster, you know, as a quote-unquote, steadying presence for the, I'm not quote-unquote, you know, which is the idea as a steady presence

for the younger point guards next season. Because he was on the floor with another point guard. that point guard is going to be 1B at most. So that's how I feel about Hayes. I think that Casey handled that very poorly across the board. So when it comes to Bay and Stewart, I'm not going to talk much about Savenly just because he hasn't been around very much

and he's also not very NBA ready. You know, he had his couple big games, but he's pretty raw. and he really needs to become more of a perimeter threat. He's playing an Isch Smith-like game right now. He's not nearly as good at it as Ish-Smith, and Ish-Smith is not a viable point guard anymore anyway. Not guys who can't shoot.

This is just a big problem. Not viable, but not viable on a decent team. So, yeah, Bay, I think, has been handled pretty well. He's been given aside from, as you said, Tommy games, in which he was given very little in the way of minutes or very little in the way of roll. and he's just displayed to his strengths, which are basically just perimeter shooting,

and he's been allowed to try in the interior, which is nice, given the opportunity, why not, even when he was doing awfully at it. So I'll give Casey credit there, certainly. Though I think Bay has benefited from the fact that he has not been on the court much with guys who are just going to monopolize usage. You know, as he's been in the starting lineup, I mean, Jeremy Grant's the only really player of that sort on the fore.

who's likely to just suck usage, which is not a bad thing. I mean, he's the primary option. And, yeah, and Stewart has been brought along fairly slowly. Also, Parakeasy has said he's been encouraging Isaiah to shoot more. And Stewart just seems to kind of pass that more off on his own. So two out of three, you know, good job. And, you know, with Hayes, not really quite so much. So, but I'll give Casey kudos and I always have.

He has a good floor raiser. It's the question of a ceiling. That's always in question. I'm kind of tempted to go off into what will probably be somewhat unpopular tangent about Nick Nurse versus doing Casey because this has been brought up quite a few times. Maybe later. Anything you add?

I think this ties actually into the next question really well. Yeah. So next question. question is what would a successful return from injury for Killian look like? And I'll wait on this one. I don't really have a ton to say. I think a successful return would see Killian be put into maximum position to succeed, which is just a situation that allows him to play to his strengths that could even just be running a lot of pick and rolls and being able to take a bunch of open spot-up threes. And yeah, just put him into a situation.

in which he is, yeah, is just set up to succeed to the extent that he can. I think what you said earlier in the season, Tommy about him just not being ready as true. I hoped he had been, he would be, his degree of readiness with respect, certainly to his left-hand dominance would be better.

But, yeah, I'd just like to see him put into a position to succeed and for him to do a decent job. That would be a successful return for injury from Killian. Yeah, that would really be. me for me. Yeah. I'm not concerned about his performance. Well, I think I, oh, go ahead, Mike. No, I was just going to say, I'm not super concerned about his performance. It'd be great if he came back looking better. But it's worth noting that this guy came from the Euro Cup, which is like two giant steps below the NBA, playing a very different game in which he was really at the center of it

against much lesser opposition. And he didn't have an NBA offseason. So I think I'll be, I said it earlier in the season, I'll be worried if he still looks awful next season. Yeah, I think it's, I mostly agree with what you said, Mike. I think it's a 50-50 on what a successful return looks like, and 50% is going to be on Killian himself, and the other 50% is going to be on Casey and how he elects to use him. So I completely agree with you. He needs to be put in a position to succeed.

I personally think that that position is give him the ball as the primary ball handler and see how he can, well, for lack of a better word, handle the ball handling. And then let him run some pick and rolls. Let him take the open threes when he has them. Don't force him to defer to anybody. Like give him the freedom to make his own decisions. And then I'll disagree with you a bit, Mike. Although it's not everything doesn't hinge on his performance, the last, you know, 20 games or whatever,

I'd like to see him show some improvements from those first seven games. Because at the end of the day, yeah, he's very young. He's coming from an inferior league. He didn't have a normal offseason. But you could say that for a lot of rookies too. And at the end of the day, he was a top 10 pick. And I'd like to see him perform at an acceptable level. But I have no doubt that he will.

Like I really believe we're going to see a much different Killing Hayes, these last 20, 25 games that he plays relative to the first seven or seven or eight that he played. So that's what a successful return would look like for me. What do you think, Tommy? Yeah, I agree with you, Dante. Yeah. I think something you have to keep in mind is the team looks very different now. Blake Griffin is gone.

Derek Riggins gone. Those guys played slow. They aid up usage. This team plays a much better brand of basketball, in my opinion. They're moving the ball really well. These guys run offense so much better than some of the other, like, bad teams in the league. Like watching the wolves, they don't move well at all. They don't get up the floor quickly.

When they're running plays, they don't run hard. This team does. they play a much more free version of basketball, and the ball moves a lot better. And I think that's a much better situation for Killian than like what you said, Mike, Blake Griffin posting up for eight seconds and Killian's just standing there.

I think Killian's going to have a lot more driving opportunities here. Not as many as he would with this floor spacing center. He's going to have to work around that, and maybe that's just the right amount of opposition or difficulty for him to really learn how to, how to drive and deal with contact and deal with two guys in the lane. But I think this is a much more, I don't know what the war, a much better opportunity for Killing it to develop without really grateful on the floor with him.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I don't know if the line would be here. Yeah. I hope not. If only the U.S. the Pistons are winning too many games right now and I don't really see any reason for him to be on the roster next season either.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. running lineup and that's a much better situation for him with these guys who are better floor spacing threats and play a much more free-flowing form of offense yeah it was just ugly is absolutely horribly ugly at the beginning of the season yeah with griffin and rose i mean you have two guys who slow you know who even if they griffin slows down the offense rose just couldn't participate in an offense another good griffin really not a modern offense rose is like here i don't care who i'm on the floor with right give me a pick and i'm just going to go and attack the basket

or maybe I'll make, you know, a non-system pass on the way of the basket. And Griffin was Griffin and Casey when he played both of them at the same time. You know, but even you put one on the floor. And the guys around him are not going to get what they would get otherwise or be able to run in a real offense. So, yeah, I agree. It was a bad situation. I still think Casey handled it pretty poorly.

Yeah. With those things mentioned, I think this is a much better opportunity for killing, even if he is with that in the starting lineup. I think the other thing that you want to see from him, well, there's two things I'm really looking for here. If he's going to get out in transition and he's not going to be stopped at the top of the arc and he has to create from nothing, I would like to see him drive right a little bit more, get to the basket. This team runs in transition. He can take advantage of that. And especially with his passing vision, these guys are going to move up the court with him really quickly. he'll have plenty of targets on the perimeter.

That's one of his highest touted skills coming into the draft. He needs to take advantage of that. And then the other thing I want to see, if he is going to be playing off the ball a little bit more, if Plumley's creating offense or handling the ball, I would like to see Killing, get some catch-and-shoeut opportunities. I think that was a much better shot for him than the pull-up threes. I know the step-back was something that we really wanted to see translate,

but I don't have a ton of hope for that. I'd much rather him gain some confidence shooting with catch and shoot three. I think the form was much better there. It was a lot more consistent. And I think I don't have the stats on it, but I think the percentage was a lot better, too. So those are the two things I would really look for. Show me something going to the right. Yeah, I do.

I know you've said before that you'd like to see him play shooting guard. Did you mean just upon his return or in general? And that kind of depends on. Who we drive? Like if we get Cade Cunningham or like Jalen Suggs, those are guys who can be 1A ball handlers, but they can also play off the ball. You can have two guys who kind of split the ball handling duties fairly evenly. Killian has really good passing vision, but I think he needs somebody to create his drive opportunities for him. So if you were playing like the Miami Heat style drive and kick offense, which I have seen us playing a little bit more lately, if somebody who's better at getting into the paint on their own is like the primary guy who's initiating the offense, if they kick the ball out to Killian Hayes, that'll create a better drive opportunity for Killian going into the paint.

And that's where he'll get maximum opportunity to kick out to the open man. Because that's like one of the things that we really did get to see from him coming into the season in those seven games. He was able to find the open man, even when it looked like they were like on the opposite side of the court. Oh, yeah. He really did show how to do that. I agree. And if I could just, and then we'll, I'm sure we've answered this question pretty thoroughly so we could probably move on. But just as a last little thing about Killian here,

I agree Tommy about his passing vision. And I think that the people who said that he showed no NBA skills and that he was a bust over the first seven games are wrong because I thought his passing was was better than good. I thought it was really, really, really, really good. Bordering on special, like a special level of vision. Like he would pass with pinpoint accuracy to people on opposite sides of the court that I'm watching on TV and I didn't even know they were open.

And so because of that, if you kind of relate that to the point guard, shooting guard, ball handling debate, I wouldn't mind seeing him play the two for the remainder of the season, but I think long term he projects as a point guard because your passing vision doesn't matter unless you have the ball in your hands. And that to me, even if we do end up drafting, like say a Cade cutting him, I think Killian's his skills translate best to being the primary ball handler. And as far as, you know, if he can get the ball and then someone else creates drives for him, he's only played seven games. We don't necessarily know what a ceiling is when it comes to being a scoring creator, right? And that even relates to the stepback as well. The stepback may still very well be a viable tool in his arsenal, right?

So we're just going to have to see how he progresses. But long term, I view him as a point guard, and I attribute that to the passing vision. Yeah, I think you could play him at shooting guard. But certainly if he becomes a solid spot-off threat, and the answer to your question, Tommy, is that he shot about 33.3%. 33.3% repeating, whatever. Most likely, I would imagine, anyway.

Whatever the case. Yeah, on catch-and-shoots, he was okay. I mean, 33.3% is not really a good mark. But it's not terrible. I think it's better than his pull-ups, though. His pull-ups are terrible. He shot 12 and a half percent on pull-ups. 12 and a half.

Wow. On wide-open threes, he only had one attempt per game, so really only about I think a total of eight attempts per season, one point one attempts for game. Whatever. I don't know why I'm getting the minutiaeo of this, but he shot 50% on those on very low volume. His jump shot doesn't look bad.

Even when he shoots pull-ups, his in fadeaways, rather, his jump shot doesn't look bad. So yeah, he is young. But yeah, back to what I was saying, though, yeah, he could play some minutes at shooting guards simply because he can defend at the position. If you can shoot spot-up threes and just functions, the secondary ball handler, great.

I just think that you're wasting a lot of what he can conceivably provide if he is not the primary, you know, the offensive lead. But whatever the situation may be, the more ball handlers you can have on the floor, the better, really. provided they can play off the ball. Okay. So moving on once more, we were asked which players do, would you consider important parts of the future?

I think the question, the answer to that question is, you know, that's pretty self-evident as Wayne Elyne Elyton, Rodney McGruder and Julia Lover. Next question. No, just kidding. Again, really, though, I think the questions you, you know, the players, I would say, certainly are most important. important on this roster right now.

Grant, Sadiq Bay and Killian Hayes. Isaiah Stewart, I think, will be on the roster for a long time really like him. I just don't think he, I think he has the least potential out of all those guys. I don't know what we'd see from saving Lee,

but who knows. Maybe Seku can actually come out and surprise people. But speaking purely on what we know right now, yeah, I'd say Grant, and Bay and Hayes. Yeah, well, Grant is approved. Didn't make the all-star team, but was certainly playing at close to an all-star level.

So by default, right, he automatically has the most value on the team. And he's not an old player by any means. He just turned 27. So, yeah, definitely valuable. And I think he's in it for the long haul. And then Sadiq Bay has performed incredibly relative to how we thought he was going to perform this year. But I think the organization probably views Killian as the kind of crown jewel of the off-season. season, like the guy who potentially has the highest ceiling.

And though he hasn't shown it thus far, it's going to be interesting to see how his game kind of develops because he's without a doubt one of the most important future core pieces we have. And then I'm going to disagree just a bit, Mike. I think that I would put Isaiah Stewart in with those three to make it a four. I think that his ceiling is unknown. And we've talked about it several times. It's just he has such an odd combination of skills, right, where he's big, thick.

He's a polished. I don't know if I want to say polished, but he's a good post player already at the age of 19. But his vertical explosiveness is just not there, right? But then again, he shows he's flashed nice handles. He's flashed nice passing. He's a terrific offensive rebounder. And now he's starting to space the floor a little bit. And I think as the season goes on, he's going to be shooting more and more and more.

or whether that's from a catch and shoot three or whether that's from a pick and pop mid range, right? So I think that his ceiling is definitely an unknown. And every time I think I pinpoint it, he does something else, and then that throws my prediction out of whack. So I think it's safe to lump him into a core future piece of this team that's important.

And then separate. Yeah, I was just going for the top three, really. Oh, yeah. So, oh, the top three, I would put, well, if it is a top four, I would put Stewart at four. Yeah, I would put him at four too. I would put him at four.

But I think the distinction is important if we're talking about actual core pieces. I think it's four rather than three. You know, the order with which you want to rank them, obviously is up to do it. Up for debate. But just for the sake of argument, we'll say it's four. And then, yeah, those are the most important. Seku, we literally just said this last episode, I believe, where it's like, yeah, he went from the only promising young player on the team to, you know,

He's just more of a loggerie ticket now, and that's something the organization has in their back pocket, and we'll see how he develops. And then Saban Lee, I think I'm a bit higher on him than you, Mike, but I do think his ceiling probably caps out at a backup point guard. But hey, I mean, if you can draft one in the second round, and then he's with you for the long term, and that's not a position that you need to fill with an overpaying free agency, that's a win as well. So we'll see how these things shake out. but I think there's a pretty defined core four pieces. And you touched on this earlier, Mike, and I completely agree. The finishing touch, like the crown jewel, is more than likely not on the roster right now. And hopefully we can acquire one in the draft coming up.

Yeah, I agree that Stewart's ceiling remains nebulous. I think it would just be about him providing enough offensive value that he can stay on the court for 30 minutes a game. Sure, yeah. That's the real question. And again, I think it's just worth repeat. beating that his issues with the verticality take away some options so he's got to be able to compensate for that yeah i've gotten a lot i've gotten in some trouble for saying that i think stewart is a backup and when i say that i think about it like this like when you talk about

the important parts of the future obviously that's gearing towards a championship team anything less it's like why do you want to be anything less you should be aiming for that so i envision Saban is a backup point guard. I think he's shown enough in the way of penetration that he's interesting there. I like his two-man game with Isaiah Stewart. And then with Stewart, it's exactly what you just said. I don't see the verticality, and that takes away options. He's not an above-the-rim player, and that's going to make things harder for your point guard,

anybody throwing lobs. He's not going to be that guy who can go up and get it. Somebody else had suggested, well, maybe if you get a four who can be that guy, and Isaiah Stewart can just be a floor spacer. Yeah, that's an option. But I don't see Stewart as a championship tier center right now unless you have a really good team around him. And even then, that would just be something

that you have to kind of work around with him. And ideally your center is a guy who kind of, you plug him in and he just makes the rest of your team better by being like half of a really good pick and roll duo or just a guy who can catch lobs. He doesn't have to be the guy who's initiating a ton. So that's what I say. I think Stewart is a backup center.

That's what I mean. I think he's most useful as a backup center where he can eat up more usage and play that post game and take those slower threes. I think they're slower. And who knows? Like if he adds more, maybe that changes. But right now at 19, I'm aware of that. I see him as a backup and I see Sabin as his running mate.

And then as far as the starting lineup goes, I see Sadiq Bay is like your fourth option or maybe third. I mean, he's dropping 20-pointers pretty consistently now. Third option you really have to be able to create for yourself to some degree. Yeah, and he's showing a little bit of that, too. I mean, he's showing some of those things that he showed at Villanova where he's getting into the paint and posting up a little bit. And I know that's not the prettiest or the fastest offense, but it's something. So third or fourth option, I think Jeremy Grant is a legitimate second option.

If you bank on him being your first, I think he'll be. disappointed. But those four, I think they have pretty defined roles, or I can really picture them in those roles on a starting or on a championship team. And then Killian and Saku are kind of your wild cards. I don't know what you're supposed to expect from them. If you want Killian to be a combo guard, I think things get a lot easier, but I don't know how good he's going to be yet. So those are probably the most, the five most important guys to me because I can see them contributing on a championship team. Yeah, I think, you know, if I would, if I'm, if I'm I'm ranking killing's importance.

It's just as important as far as how important a success is to the future of the team. I'll, again, just say I'll disagree about Jeremy Grant. I think he's going to be, unless he keeps improving, if he's going to be the second option on your team, on a championship team, then your number one option is going to have to, you're either going to have to have this sort of very impressively spread out egalitarian offense that the going to work, Pist and Ted. which is difficult to pull off these days, but can't be done. Or your number one score is going to need to be a transcendent score. If Jeremy Grant is going to be, your viable is going to be your real number two guy in a championship team. Your number one score is going to have to be amazing.

I know Grant has reversed a little bit lately, but I still think, like, if you gave him some more options or some more weapons around him, that would open up his game a little bit more, and that would make him look a lot better. Sure, I mean, but I think that even then you'd have to have a strong support, a very strong supporting cast to make that work. I'm not saying that the old champion, you know, that the typical championship template is the one that always has to, that you always have to have. But if you just look at your requirements to have, you know,

to really have a championship team and in really the past going back to going to work Pistons, really, you've, and again, I mentioned the Raptors, you know, with Kyle Lowry is your number two scorer, sure. I mean, he's an all-star. I'm not taking anything away from Kyle Lowry. Not a superstar scorer. But the Raptors got lucky, real lucky. And that that series could have been over in, you know,

five games if you had Thompson and Durant. I think I'm getting that right. Whatever the case, I think you can all agree they would not have won against the Golden State team with Thompson and Durant. Oh, for sure not. Yeah. But when you look at the Lakers,

for example, Anthony, And again, I'm not saying you have to have this, Anthony Davis and LeBron James. The Warriors, of course, were the Warriors that do not really even need any explanation. Kyrie Irving and LeBron James for the Cavs and Kevin Love, that's helpful too. I think that Grant would be most suited to that sort of Kevin Love rule, where you can still do a lot of damage, but you're behind two really elite offensive creators. But I know, and I know that you can look back further at that.

The Warriors had Curry and Thompson. And Thompson wasn't really that elite guy. But I don't know. Steph Curry just kind of allows you to really transcend a lot. He's just a completely meta-bending player. In any events. So moving on to the final question we have, which is not really all that uplifting.

But fortunately, I don't think this is something we have to be afraid of. So the question in any scenario, do you think the Pistons had any fear of being, I would imagine, have, this question, have any fear of being relocated? In 2016, it was leaked to Piss as the least profitable team in the league. And because the team's lack of success in the 2010s fan support has dwindled, do you believe we have any, we do have any chance of being relocated? And, yeah, my answer is no. I don't think there's any fear of that. I haven't seen the statistics on which teams are most or least profitable. I do know it's very difficult to not be a profitable.

Of course, coronavirus aside, under normal circumstances, it's very difficult. Or I should say it is extremely easy to be profitable as an NBA team. Just the sources of income are myriad. and even when it comes down to merchandising, TV rights, and so on and so forth. There's also that Tom Gorez seems to be pretty, you know, say what you will, he seems to be pretty dedicated to Detroit. And even though Detroit is not a very nice city, put it that way, a lot of people who, a lot of you for listening to this podcast,

probably disson fans and most of you live in Michigan, you know that the surrounding areas are actually quite nice. I mean, it's actually a pretty wealthy suburban area. So, no, I just, from all of those factors and just Detroit being a decent sports city, I don't see them. I don't see the distance ever being relocated. You don't often. I've actually seen the graphic, yeah. You don't often see teams.

Like the last time I team was relocated, wasn't that Oklahoma City from Seattle? Yeah. That was like, that was close to 20 years ago. It just, it doesn't happen often. And you've got to have a real good reason to relocate a team. The last, aside from the NFL, which seems to just relocate teams, you'd know more about this than I, Dante, but it seems to relocate teams, you know, quite a bit more often, particularly the California teams.

Yeah. Aside from the NFL, I think the last relocation between the Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL was in 2012 when the Atlanta Thrashers, who had no business being a team in the first place. because there's a horrible market for them. They'll put it this way. Maybe that's not the case. Maybe it could have been a good market if the team wasn't so incompetent. But they were at a disadvantage to begin with as a hockey team in Atlanta,

which is just not a traditional hockey market of any kind. And you can say that there are other non-traditional hockey markets, but you look at the Phoenix Coyotes, for example. They've been around for a while and they've constantly struggled. There are markets that work, but. Detroit's a market that works, though. I mean, you can say what you will about. And many people have this, that the city, whatever the case may be.

The fact of the matter is that Detroit is a sports town. It'll always be a sports town. Every single team that you have is historic, right? You've got the lions, even though they haven't succeeded. They're still a historic team. The pistons, the wings, and the tigers. None of those teams are going to be relocated. If there was even the slightest chance of that occurring,

then I can guarantee you that there wouldn't have been massive, large-scale construction downtown to ensure that all of these stadiums are within walking distance of each other. Like this is very clearly a thought-out plan to start to revitalize the downtown area, and the sports teams are the key to doing that. So there's absolutely no chance of the pistons being relocated. I wish I could go less than 0% because that's what it is. And we've heard the same thing with the Lions too.

people have said oh you know the lines have been so bad for so long that uh jet bezos is going to buy the team and move them to california it's like okay like there's no there's no basis for any of these claims right so whoever asked that question i wouldn't worry about it it's not even worth fretting over because it's not going to happen yeah well i've seen the graphic that i think this question is referring to because yeah this this info did leak in 2016 and the pistons they did lose money a lot of teams lost money but the league has revenue sharing. So everybody still gets money, but the Pistons didn't make much. When you look at the games, there's not that many people there.

Living in Southeast Michigan, you see Pistons Gear far less than you see pretty much all the other four major sports, other three, whatever. And I think that probably just stems from the fact that we've been really boring for the last 12 years. But I'm encouraged by the fact that I think we'll be a lot better after this. I really do think this team finally has direction. I think once you give the fans something to cheer about something interesting, they'll come back. I'm not really worried about the team moving. Absolutely, they'll come back.

And that goes for all sports, not just the Pistons, right? And so it's not a question that can be answered in a vacuum because all these sports teams relate to each other. And all four of them are going through a rebuild right now. And before long, even if not all of these rebuilds work, some of them will. At least one of them probably will. and one team's success is good for all the teams in the area because it just increases the interest in sports, right? And like I said, can't be overstated what they've done downtown with the locations of the arenas. So it's just not on the table.

I can guarantee it's not on the table. I would just say, I'll just repeat it. It's very difficult to get an NHL, an NBA, or a major league baseball team relocated. It just doesn't. It just very, very, very rarely happens. And there's got to be a very good reason for it. like I said, the Atlanta, the thrashers were a terrible team, just really struggling in every respect and have been in a difficult market. And that's what got them moved.

I mean, and I think, yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it just doesn't happen. And West is a good reason. And I don't think Tom Goris is going to be a kind of guy who was just going to say, oh, okay, well, I'm just going to feel like it because he seems pretty dedicated to Detroit. Absolutely. For sure. For sure. And with that, we are going to. move on to a draft profile of prospective top five pick Jalen Green.

Thank you to everybody who submitted questions. And we are always happy to receive feedback, suggestions, ideas for things we can discuss on future episodes. So, yeah, to all of you, please, if you ever have any of the above, let us know. All right, Jalen Green. Yeah, so I'm really excited about this one. Jaylen Green is a 6-foot-6 wing out of the G-Lig Ignite team, and he's been one of the most exciting prospects,

certainly in this draft, and probably in the past few drafts. He comps everywhere from Zach Levine to Derek Jones Jr. And I've even seen Kobe comps. And I know that you're immediately going to think, well, that's crazy. You watch him, and I know it's like the high end, obviously, but it's not crazy.

If you watch overtime, you've seen his high school dunks. Jalen has a lethal first step, elevates like a rocket and he continued to show out in the G-League bubble. And while I don't think that was the best showcase of his talent, I think he benefited greatly from his time with the Ignite team. Jalen is one of three legitimate first option tier players that I see in the top five of this draft. And if the Pistons miss out on Cade, I think Green can go anywhere from two to five. Although personally, I see him as number two and I would be very surprised if that changed before the draft.

But never say never anyway. But if the pistons, if he's there when the Pistons pick, I really hope we take him. He has all the tools to be a perennial all-star, and I'm personally very high on him. Coming into the season, the G-League season, that is, there were questions about his defense and his three-ball, and I think those are the biggest things. So starting with his three-point shooting, he had his ups and downs, but he finished the G-League season shooting, he finished 37% on threes, 82% from the free-throw line. And that's really encouraging for projecting continued shooting prowess.

and that's really important when you look at the other part of his game, which is his ability to attack the basket. He can absorb contact, avoid it, finishes with finesse, and it's just he just puts on a clinic every time he goes to the basket. Like he does get followed a lot, and I think playing on the Ignite team that didn't have maybe the best spacing options and they didn't play the fastest, maybe that was, that made it harder for him, but he's just so much fun to watch.

His balance and hang time on some of these At the Basket shots It's just mesmerizing to watch And one of the surprises for me personally, though, was the variety of dribble moves he showed. I thought he was going to, I mean, he showed handles But that was more attacking the basket But the stuff that he showed on the perimeter even

It was just fantastic. He was showing stepbacks Crossovers, just a wide variety of really, really good and encouraging things. He had games where he had games where he shot from distance really poorly and games where he shot really well, but the degree of difficulty and the limited touches he got in the beginning, I'm bullish on his ability as a shooter. And again, I don't even think this was the best team for his draft stock. The Ignite team played

really slow basketball, and it's not the best for him when he's like this guy who's just, he's supposed to get out in transition, he's supposed to get his dunks before the defense sets. That didn't really get to happen much for him here. He had to kind of adjust to that. I don't the Ignite team I don't think they got him the electrifying dunks that kind of made him famous but on a fast-paced college team I think he would probably be getting a lot more hype just because one that's probably better for like becoming a household name but I think that's just a better looking offense

that would play to his strengths more so but what this what playing on the Ignite team did do for him was it taught him to be a half-court player. And that's something that you obviously, you really need that when you're going to the NBA. You can't just rely on transition. And while that is a very efficient offense, like, especially in the playoffs, they're going to try and stop you. The pace slows down. So it's really good for Jalen Green's development that he got to play in the Ignite team. And I think he's going to be a great value pick. He's one of those kids with like S-tier athleticism. And I think that Jalen Green could be like that first option, the 1A score that the Pistons are looking.

for. So if he's there, if the Pistons pick from two to five, I'm not personally very sure why he's fallen all the way to five in some mock drafts. I just don't understand why, because I think he has a very complete game for a shooting guard, and I think he could be exactly the guy that the Pistons are looking for. What would be your primary reservations, if any? I guess it would be the defense. In high school, for sure, he didn't play much of that in like the World Cup stuff. But one of the things that I did see was I really like these film analysis videos that Mike Schmitz does with the individual prospect. And he went down to Walnut Creek where the Ignite Team trains. And he talked to Jalen Greene for, I don't know, while with the minutes, about 20 minutes long.

And when they got to his defense, they showed him clips of him playing defense from just two months ago. Jalen was pretty quiet the whole time. But when they showed him this clip of him defensively, He, like, perked up. He was like, wow, I can't believe I used to play defense like that. He's made strides there, at least in his mind. So I'm really encouraged by that, but I think that was, like, his biggest thing. And then, I mean, even though he shot 37% in the G league, he does need to continue to shoot well, take the right shots.

But I think the Pistons could be a fantastic fit for him. This team runs really well, and he will get his opportunities to attack the basket on this team, especially when they start to add more spacing. What about his mentality? What do we know about that? I've read that he's a very hard worker. He opted to go with the G-League route, which is definitely less fame. They do pay you more, but I think...

They pay you. I don't have any concerns there. What's that? They pay you more than zero. That's nice. They pay you more than zero. Definitely more than zero. And I guess that would be...

I appreciate that he went with this route, because I think it does show that he was more committed to learning and perfecting his craft. than being the big man on campus. So I don't really have any issues with him there either. I think he'd be a fantastic get for the Pistons. What about in terms of leadership? Leadership, I'm not sure. With the Ignite team, I guess that would be one of the drawbacks from going to this.

The leaders on that team are definitely going to be like the veterans that they have on that team. These guys who are like career NBA players, they're definitely a lot older. He talked a lot about how. He appreciated the mentorship of those guys, but I didn't see him as much. You don't really expect the kid who was like 18, 19, to be the leader on a team with a bunch of 30-year-olds and guys like Amir Johnson, Jared Jack. So I don't know about that, but even if that's not his thing, I guess I wouldn't expect it to be just based on how quiet he is, his demeanor. But I don't know if he need that from him. I definitely expect him to be a lead by example guy.

He's going to be an energy guy, and I think that he would fit the team's identity very well. well that way. Given that he, I mean, this, what I believe, actually fourth on his team and assists per game. I mean, do you think, what kind of caliber do you think he, excuse me, in terms of his ability to create for others, rather, I mean, where does he? Yeah, in the start of the season, he didn't get the ball in his hands nearly as much. And by the end of it, I mean, if you go back and you watch his last game with the Ignite, where they lost in the playoffs to the Toronto team, and they were playing excellent. excellent ball for a G-League team, especially.

But he was handling the ball a bit more. And that was something that I saw people say, wow, I wish they would have given the ball to Jalen Green a lot more. I don't see him as like a primary ball handler, maybe secondary at best, I guess, to start. But he showed some chops there, too. Like, he did make the right pass a few times. So that's encouraging as well. All right.

Fantastic. So that'll be it for today's. episode. As always, thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next time.