Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 42: The home stretch and random hypotheticals

Episode Date: May 11, 2021

This episode sums up the team's remaining schedule, discusses a few unrelated hypothetical scenarios, and answers some listener-submitted questions.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Drive into the Basket, now with better production values. I am Mike. I am here with Tommy and Dante. We are recording this right after the loss against the Philadelphia 76ers on Saturday night. And we are heading into the late stages of the season.

Actually, as of the time of this recording, there are eight days more prior to the season finale against the Miami Heat. And of course, the thought on our minds and the thoughts, I would imagine, of many of your minds as well, is lose. Lose these four games, please. We've gotten to the point of the schedule, of course, where the tankathon, the tank battle, the positioning for highest draft odds has gotten very close. The Pistons are about one game ahead in that race of. several teams, and things could just turn a little bit pear-shaped as far as watery ads go

if the Pistons win another game. Looking at games against, I believe the Bulls, the Timberwolves, which is the real must-lose, the heat, and I don't remember, who is the fourth? You guys remember? Yeah, that's the number, right? Gotcha. So, yeah, coming off of a win against the Memphis Grizzlies, which I'm sure was pretty unexpected, the Grizzlies really lost that one more than the Pistons won it.

And, you know, yeah, so that's pretty much the next four games. We'll decide where the Pistons fall in the lottery. And currently the Pistons are tied with the Minnesota Timberwolves. For those are unfamiliar with the draft lottery rules, teams that are tied basically is just decided between the bike coin flip. I'm not sure how it works for multiple teams in the same record. But right now, the Pistons still have the best possible odds at a top four pick. And yeah, whatever. We'll have plenty of time to talk about draft lottery odds.

So any thoughts you guys have on the remaining schedule? I have one thought, and it's lose at all costs. I don't think that anybody can really disagree with that. I think the point we're at in the season right now, everybody's like-minded, everybody's in lockstep. Pistons fans know what we've got to do, and what we've got to do is go out there and absolutely embarrass ourselves for the rest of the season.

It hurts to say. I mean, it hurts to say because you never want to see a team go out and have to do that. And I will say credit to Detroit Weaver, the Pistons, definitely have emphasized the youth and emphasized, you know, not putting out too good of a product. You know, that'll risk wins. The Pistons have had terrible, you know, not good luck at all.

We'll put it that way, you know, over the last month as far as winning some games that were, again, more just because the opponent had injuries or the opponent played terribly or whatever else. But, you know, you never want to say lose, lose, lose, but as much as you want to say, oh, this team should fight for every game, it's just the notion of sentiment and culture over the practicals. I mean, those are both important, but over the practicals, I mean, the practical is, practical is that getting a, getting a high draft pick in this, in this draft would be very, very, very, very, very, very nice. Absolutely. Absolutely. And listen, the lottery ping pong balls there, they don't, they don't care about moral victories, you know, and as nice as it would be to say, oh, look, the young guys, they're building a winning culture, they're this, they're that. Yeah, it's nice in theory, but at the end of the day, it's exactly as you put it, Mike, you know, it's their practical implications. at play here. And if I could just really quickly, I've seen some people, you know, I don't want to say defending the win, but I've seen some people say, some people on Twitter say things like, oh, how can you blame Cory Joseph? How can you blame Wayne Ellington? You know, they're just going out there and doing their job. And obviously, players are going to go out there and they're going to

try their best. But it's equally true that those guys going out there and trying their best might have very real negative implications for the future of this team. So I'm not sure what else the Pistons can do. They really have committed to the youth movement. They don't seem to be trying to win. I mean, we've all seen the Josh Jackson right tooth injury report. That was the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. But the team is cognizant of the fact that they need to lose games. I would almost guarantee that. So the rest is up to, you know, how these other teams that were playing against decide to perform on a given night. And it's scary to kind of put our future in other teams' hands. But at the end of the day, there's not much you can do about it.

we're just going to have to hope for the best. Yeah, there was a stretch there where we won a few games in a row that we were like four and six at one point. And does, I don't know about you, but does it feel like too little too late at this point? Like obviously the rockets are just unbelievably terrible. I don't think anybody expected them to be that bad going into the season. They were like three and 33 or something like that at one point. They had a stretch that that was that bad.

They lost 20 straight. I don't know that it's worth it to sacrifice the culture stuff because I do believe in it now. like two years ago when we were talking about, you know, Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson, Blake Griffin, and people were talking about we needed to establish a winning culture. I always felt like that was just such garbage. I never believed in that, but this group feels a lot more legitimate. It feels like they're building something meaningful here. So in that sense, I trust it a lot more, and I see the value in it.

So I don't know about you guys, but I have questions on it. And I want to ask these now as opposed to after the season because there's still this level of uncertainty. I think that makes them interesting to think about. I don't know if you guys have any other thoughts on the remaining schedule, but if not, let me know. No thoughts on the schedule. But on the winning culture front, Tommy, I agree that a winning culture is not some made up idea.

It's very, very real. And you see that in all the different leagues of professional sports that losing perpetuates losing, winning perpetuates winning. And that's a very real notion. But do I think winning culture, quote unquote, is going to be established based on winning or losing these next six games? Not really. But I do know that it can.

almost guarantee us a top five pick if we lose all of them. So when we're weighing the options there, I would much rather lose. Yeah, I just don't see winning culture on a team with Drummond. That's all it. Oh, goodness. Stan Van Gundy built a team that it's just like this team was the opposite of a good culture of any kind, really. And I would say Van Gundy was really at the root of that.

But what I think can be said is that, yeah, nobody likes to go out there and lose. but I don't think that the next four games are really going to make a difference one way or another than that. And next season... In terms of the culture, yeah. Yeah, next season we can go back to actually rooting for the Pistons to win. For me, as much as I have been pretty jocular about the, you know, about rooting for the Pistons to lose.

For me, it's been a miserable experience, not because they have been losing, because that's a necessity. Just watching games and living in anxiety about, oh my goodness, or the Pistons actually going to win this? And what was the competitions be? I hate that. It's counterintuitive to what being a sports fan is, but that's what happens when you look at the big picture.

Yeah, it's like it was, you know, it started out as kind of like a novelty, and then it was still funny for a while. And like maybe 15 games ago, I just got really tired of it. And, well, I've been growing more tired of it. And now I just, I just want it to be over and for it to have gone right. And it's like, it's like, I don't think, I'm not happy. I don't think anybody else is happy that we just basically have to have to wait and wait and just hope that the Pistons will manage to lose four more times down the season. I mean, that's not what you want to be doing at the end of the season.

No, no, but hopefully it's this season and that's it. Then we don't have to worry about it moving forward. Yeah, I think it will be this season only, but that's a topic we can talk about later on the show or another future episode. We're definitely going to be doing a lot of pre-draft content quite a bit. Of course, the lottery isn't until... It's July, right? No, it's... It's not like mid-June or late January.

No, the lottery is, I believe, June 22nd. Oh, I'll just test in to see if you guys knew. Oh, okay, gotcha. But the lottery tends to be right at the beginning of the conference finals, right near the beginning of the conference finals, and that's going to hold this season. So, yeah, right before we launch into the rest of the episode, which is pretty interesting, just going to be...

discussion on a popery of topics. I'd just like to thank those of you who gave us feedback lately. It's always great to hear from listeners. We appreciate all of you. And it's very helpful for us to know how we can continue to improve as podcasters and give you guys more entertaining content. And no matter which direction this podcast ultimately ends up taking, we're always going to keep it a very listener-focused show. So, yeah, thanks for those of us, excuse me, thanks for those of you who have written in, so to speak. And we hope to continue creating content you enjoy. All right.

Moving on, Tommy, why don't you get us kicked off here? I thought it would be fun. Like, we're all so stressed out about how this season's going to end. And there's this level of uncertainty. I think that's kind of like the opportune time to ask some of these, I think, interesting questions. and Mike, I told you one of them. And at the time, this is like half an hour ago, you didn't know the answer. So I'm just going to pose it right now.

And then Dante, I don't know if you have a knee-jerk reaction. If you want to go first, by all means. But at this point in the year, the way things and the standings are, would you rather that we didn't sign Jeremy Grant in the offseason? Everything else is the same. You know, they're still trying to compete. They have Isaiah Stewart, Sadiq Bay, Killian-Aze, but they don't sign Jeremy Grant, maybe that keeps us in contention for like the first overall or the worst

odds or worst record best odds. Would you pass on Jeremy Grant and just keep everything else the same? My knee has jerked. My knee is jerked for sure. I feel like, so you said that Mike didn't have an answer for this? He didn't know. He didn't? Okay.

I'm waiting on you. I'll weigh in afterward. Okay. All right. So my knee jerk reaction is I absolutely disagree that having Jeremy Grant on this team is a bad thing. If that's, that appears to be the implication of the question, right?

Is that, oh, if we didn't sign Jeremy, we'd have won a bit fewer games and therefore we'd have better lottery odds. Look, the fact of the matter is this, Jeremy Grant,

at certain points during this season, was playing at an all-star level. He's still relatively young. I believe he's only 27, and I think he has room to improve. And we've talked about Jeremy ad nauseum more so earlier on in the season than lately because he's been resting a lot.

But I don't think the value of a, young-ish, all-star caliber player, as in he has the potential to play up to be an all-star caliber player. I don't think that can be understated, you know, and obviously we've gotten into as well. His reasons for being here are far more than just he wanted to be the number one option on a bad team and kind of prove his worth a little bit. Look, he's locked in for three years and I'm going to enjoy every bit of those three years because number one, he's a great guy.

Number two, he appears to be a great role model. And number three, when he's on, he just scorches the other team, man. Like, he is an absolute joy to watch. He's a lot of fun. And I think next year, and Mike kind of alluded to this earlier, that the tanking kind of ends this year, and I agree, this team has kept it competitive. Not every single game, but most games this year. We're not getting blown out very often.

And next year, when we're actually trying to win, presumably, I think we're going to see the true value of Jeremy Grant. So knee-jerk reaction, I would sign Jeremy 100 times out of 100 for sure. I think he's exceeded everybody's expectations, probably even Weaver's expectations. So I'm happy with it. And three or four less wins doesn't change that in my opinion. I think most people will agree with you. Yeah, for me, I'm so focused upon the draft that like basically the way I see it.

And I think this is just a given in the NBA these days. you have to have that really overpowering score in order if you're going to win a championship. Even if you're really likely going to make it to the conference finals, you have to have that superstar overpowering score. And I'm most focused, I mean, I appreciate what Troy Weber has done so far. This team has a good start. I think we all agree that it's mostly just a good start, though. This team really needs, as any team does, this team really needs that core cornerstone piece.

the guy who's who's going to go out there and lead the offense and really just be this guy who can create offense in high volume and do a great job of it. And that's what I'm focused on perhaps maybe a little bit to a fault. I don't want to minimize what Weaver has done as far as the assemblage of young players. He has created thus far, which has been impressive, and that's very important too. but this is a question I would really lean 90% towards saying yes it was a good thing to sign Jeremy Grant

but this is a question that'll be more easily answered with the benefit of quite a bit of hindsight as in hindsight's piece of hindsight number one where do the Pistons fall in the draft lottery and associated piece of hindsight number two if the Pistons fell

or the players you know there were guys they would have wanted who were drafted earlier and if they were going to get that with those odds and those players it turned out to be great and far better on the pick

significantly better in the pick the pistons get it's like okay well with that benefit in enormous hindsight then probably would have been better to not sign grant at this point though with where the pistons are

on the standings and who knows my answer could really change if they went to their final four games and end up like eight in the standings which I think is still technically possible.

My answer conceivably changed and become, wow, this is a disaster. And that's what I think we were talking about early in the season, is that Weaver was conceivably playing with fire by making the signings he did. So I can't really answer it yet. I mean, I really tend toward yes, but, yeah, that's the best I can say on it. That's exactly why I asked this right now, because we don't know where the Pistons end up,

As they stand right now, the Pistons have, what, a 20% chance of dropping a sixth overall. And even then, like, we really want a top four pick in this draft. So when you look at the lottery odds, if you just want a top four pick and you really, really want a top four pick, it doesn't matter if you finish first or third. But I still think there is, like, disastrous implications between falling from fifth or sixth to eighth, you know, overall. And this year where we're supposed to kind of ideally with the amount of talent that we see in this draft, like you can get your number one score. There's probably three or four guys in the top six that I see having the potential to be,

you know, lead offensive creators and offensive players. You know, these guys fall all throughout the draft, but 50% of all-stars are taking in the top five. And then the other 50% are six through 50, or six-through-60, rather. So, I don't know, if you want to give yourself the best chance, technically you should be shooting for that top five. And it's a calculated risk, and it's, again, it is like Troy Weaver has tried to, we're clearly trying to tank. You know, all these different players are resting. The injury reports have suddenly gotten a lot longer. But I worry about the idea of fans at the end of the season or after the draft lottery thinking it's too little too late.

and that's kind of where this Jeremy Grant question comes in because they brought guys in who were really good for the culture of this team and Jeremy Grant is certainly part of that. I was reading over Omari Sankofa's AMA just earlier today and this is when Griffin and Rose were still on the team. He said that Griffin, Rose, and Jeremy command the most respect. So we have a guy who's young, great for the culture, and is a leader. And that's incredibly valuable, but at the same time,

we don't have that 1A score that Mike you mentioned. You need that. Yeah, you absolutely do that. Yeah, you need that. No F, answer, buts. I mean, one thing I think needs to go into this answer is that it's impossible for us, with our current level of information, to know exactly what the impact of any player is in the locker room. And that's really an intangible.

Yeah. You know, who sets the tone and so on and so forth. So, yeah, it's just, I mean, this is a little bit of a little bit of. an A side, but they're really, at the start of the season, the Pistons projected is one of the very few tankers in the league. Pretty much every team was going in and expecting to compete. And you had three of, three of the teams with whom, or actually, you know, all but one of the teams with which the Pistons are really competing at this very late stage for a high pick. And then that team is Cleveland. Went in and was undone by injuries.

like Houston was 500 before Christian Wood went down. I mean, I think there was more to it than just Wood going down because that team went into the, it's just awful, terrible. But yeah, they were on 500 at that point. I think if he'd stayed in the lineup, I can't think that they would be in this position right now. Minnesota was going in with the core of Anthony Edwards, Carl Anthony Towns, DeAngelo Russell, and Malick Beasley. I think the four of them have yet to play a single game. game together. I mean, they're doing better now, but in Edwards, and Edwards is improved the course of the season, but just as soon as DiLow came back, Beasley, who was positioning himself to be like,

you know, probably top three guy and most improved player voting potentially, went out that exact day for the rest of the season. No, Oklahoma City while shy, I always butcher his name, Gilgius Alexander, I believe, so I was pronounced. One of those rare, I think, is going to be a superstar, one of those 1A guys that you find outside the top five. And then, of course, Orlando who lost Isaac lost faults and everything went in the in the trash. So yeah, if that hadn't happened, I mean, the Pistons would just be probably competing with Cleveland at this point, nobody else. So that further complicates the answer.

Yeah. I think one thing we're failing to, all three of us are kind of failing to consider with this grant question is that it's not really operating in the realm of black and white because of the nature of the draft lottery itself. It's kind of intellectually disingenuous to say that, okay, if we didn't have Jeremy, we would get a higher pick. And then if, because we do have Jeremy, we're going to get a lower pick. Listen, Houston has been so horrible that I'm not convinced that a season full of the

pistons without Jeremy Grant would actually finish below them. They'd have a better shot to, for sure. They might be closer to them in the standings. You know, we might be one or two games back instead of three. or four games back or whatever we are. But I'm not convinced that not having Jeremy has made such a significant difference that it's going to drastically impact the future.

Now, it's like you said, Mike, too. You can only really fully answer this question in hindsight, but let's be honest, if we take the worst case scenario and we fall to number six, it's like, okay, presuming that we finish with the second worst record, right? Let's say we lose the rest of our games. We drop to number six, worst case scenario. Well, we're number six, and we have Jeremy,

grant and there's a chance that we could have not signed Jeremy Grant and still finish with the number six pick anyway. So at that point, I'll take the talent and the leadership on the team, if that makes sense, because you can't look at it as a binary. We don't know for a fact that not having Jeremy would result in a higher pick. We just don't know how that's going to work out. So I think when assessing this answer, it's kind of, you know, maybe it's a little safer to err on the side of I'll take the youngish all-star capable player versus not having them. we're so low in the standings anyway, if that makes sense. I get you.

And the complication in discussing any of this really is that like the Pistons could have, you know, like one, three more games or however many more games and ended up in ninth. And then suddenly they jumped to number one. And you could say, ha, ha, I told you so. Exactly. When in reality, you just got lucky. So, so I mean, you could conceivably like the Pistons. could get, again, they could have dropped the 10th and, you know, have Jeremy Grant's on the team and you get number one.

And then he could say, oh, well, it worked out fine. It was good at he to sign Grant. But really, it was a matter of chance. You know, it's a matter of the watery balls falling as they did. So I think that makes it a more difficult question to answer. Yeah. And the crazy thing, think about this, this is the stuff that the GM has to decide before the season, you know? Like, when we talked like two years ago, me and you, you know, you were.

and me, Mike, like, well, this is like when Griffin was still on the team, and I was just like, this team is going nowhere. They need to tank. I laid out, like, this team needs to lose for three years. Ideally, in that time, you've hit on the lottery a couple times. You have your core of the future, and you're starting to sign rookie extensions and free agents because hopefully free agents will see the potential of your team and they want to come here. That's not the approach that Troy Weaver's taken here.

He's trying to compete, and he's clearly trying to be a bad team, but you can't really have both. And you could look at it as like, yeah, finishing with a second worst record or second, yeah, second worst record. And looking this polished as a team, having this solid of a foundation, is fantastic. You know, you look at the lottery odds, they're flattened, maybe you're like, it's calculated risk. I'm sure that the way that the new lottery odds work, that probably has been a factor in, like, how hard. teams are willing to tank because you could you're the worst team and you could you could be the team that like puts out a garbage product like okayc is currently doing and you could still drop all the way to fifth and then you're in a really bad spot potentially this is a good draft class

it's still a pretty deep draft at the top it's not always going to be like that you know there are a lot of factors and that's why I just thought this was an interesting question because it's not what I had envisioned two years ago and I don't think that Troy Weaver made a mistake doing what he's done. But it's just going to come down to luck, essentially. It's scary to me. Well, come down to luck. And I mean, part of me is like, well, I wish we had just been the worst team in the league

just so, you know, you could spare me the anxiety of, you know, of lottery day. But the fact is that this is more like a top four draft now. At the beginning of the season, it was very much considered a top five draft until DeSao Kumanga operated in the two league. and he really got with a lot of talent, but a lot of question marks. It may not even be the consensus number five overall pick, depending on who picks at number five. So, you know, it is what it is.

And, you know, in the end, we'll live or die as we get to number six and hope the pistons don't get called. And then number five, and hope the pistons don't get called. And if they don't get called at number four, that's when I'll start feeling good. Sure. because I don't think, I mean, well, granted, whatever. If they don't get called to number five, I'll feel all right, but based on, and Tommy has been doing far more draft research at this stage than Don's.

I've said quite a few times, I think, in this podcast, I don't actually do draft research. Well, I do some research, but I don't really get into the deep research until after the season. I don't really like quite so much what I see from Jaylen Suggs as far as going forward with the Pistons. but yeah we can talk about that later but yeah that's basically what it'll be and I'm going to have to think about how to keep my nerve steady during draft watery nights like how like how yeah yeah if you want we can move on to the other question and I think it's a little bit nicer I actually had one more thought if you guys don't mind um go for I'll give it quick and this is kind of derivative of I really liked what you said, Tommy, about the polish that we're showing, and we still have the second worst record anyway.

And that statement kind of got the gears turned in a little bit, and I was thinking, and I became a little more confident in my answer about Jeremy, because if what I had previously stated holds true that Houston was going to be garbage no matter what, and we had a very, very, very low chance of finishing with a worse record than them, it's going to boil down to luck with the lottery. and whether we have Jeremy or we don't have Jeremy, it was always going to boil down to luck. So if we're assuming that the best we were going to do is the second best odds, you get the second best odds with Jeremy Grant on the team or you get the second best odds without him on the team. That's the reality that we're in right now.

And I'll take him on the team, given the odds that we've already got, if that makes sense. And it's going to boil down to luck, like I said, but it would have boiled down to luck without him as well. So I think that's important to consider. No, I think our answer might be a little bit different if the Pistons managed to win two games, though, and end up... Oh, yeah, I could be losing my mind in a couple nights from now, but as it stands with the second worst record.

Well, who knows? Yeah, you know. We could drop to number eight and end up in the number one overall pick, and then it's like, oh, okay, who cares? That's like just the essence of this question. That's what makes it, I think, a little bit more difficult, but... Sometimes it's better to be lucky than bad. I feel like I'm in my stats class, you know. So what's number two here, Tony?

who do you think is the most valuable rookie to the rebuild Mike I want to hear what you have to say because I think Dante you went first that other time so like who do you think? At this point I would say it's Killian Hayes just because he's got the highest ceiling in the team and the Pistons really need that ball handler the future I mean I know that changes

if you have depending on who you draft like if you basically if Killian pans out then then exactly who you draft between say Jalen Green at Evan Mobley and I know that's that's an open question for a lot of people as to who who between the two is going to be the better player then it matters less and uh you know kailian if he develops properly as a guy who will be able to play next to pretty much anybody

you know even be that's jalen sucks uh or you know certainly kate cunningham who can of course kate you can plug into any team and at this point it looks like he'll do well so but i think he's got the highest ceiling among the rookies. We talked to last episode. I'm not going to go into it again about what he'll need to do in order to achieve that ceiling. And, and, you know, I kind of have my concern. Actually, my biggest concern lately is, like, is seeing him move in a way that slightly favors the hip that he injured. But who knows, maybe that'll go away. It's just that the concern you really have is that laboral tears in the hip can really stick around and really cause problems. And it looks like he avoided the worst

a bit, but we'll see. But that's not a hearing or there. So I would say it's Killian just because of the ceiling, which I think is higher than that of the other rookies. There's this kind of like little voice in my head that says, well, look at Saban Lee, who's a hard worker with good, you know, with pretty darn good court vision and is really athletic and could maybe develop into, I don't know, like this is just purely based on body type. Maybe that Donovan Mitchell sort, like, you know, small, explosive and strong. And I think Saban will hit the weight room and get better in that capacity over the summer. And so who knows? Maybe he ends up really being one of those second round picks who really surprises you, but at this point I'd have to call it Hayes. Bay.

I've been clear on my thoughts about Bay. I think he'll be a good starter in the league, and I think he'll be a good guy for the past since I like him a lot. I think Isaiah Stewart, I like him a lot as well. Be a good starter. I don't think either of those guys has the ceiling that Killian does. So I'd call him the most important rookie, you know, really pretty much much without hesitation. Yeah, that's fair. That's pretty much what I expected. And Dante, I want to hear what you think.

I would say that I fall in line with a lot of what Mike said. But again, I think most people say Killian and that might be falling victim to the idea that, you know, quote unquote, pro-ready players coming in through the NBA draft are not going to deviate much from what they are in their first year. And if we're just looking at it objectively, Sadiq has been the best rookie. He's the best player out of the three. I think Stewart's a good player.

I think Sadiq's a better player as it stands right now. And so you could say if the question is framed in a way where it's like, well, who's the most important rookie? I think you could say Sadiq and you wouldn't be wrong just based on the fact that he's the best player. And I think he's got the best shot of being a long-term valuable player for any NBA team. But the fact of the matter is that, yeah, Killion was the highest pick. and he was the highest pick because he possesses these traits that if fully developed to their maximum potential will elevate him to a player that is going to be a super important cog in winning a championship,

right? Like if Killian's scoring starts to improve and his facilitating improves even a little bit, then you've got a really, really, really good player, certainly a top 10 point guard with potential to grow even from there, maybe even a top five point guard if everything comes together. And in that instance, yeah, Killian would be the best. but I sort of struggle with how the question is framed. And I'm saying this a little bit to play devil's advocate because I don't want to give the same answer across the board.

But it is important to consider that Sadiq is the best of the three of them right now. And I don't think it should be discounted just because of the fact that he's perceived to have a lower ceiling. You know, I am curious to know if for whatever reason, let's say Troy, had a fun night with his friends. He got super, super drunk. And then he texted every GM in the league in a group chat saying, hey, the three first round picks are up for trade. I feel like Sadiq might have the most value right now

because I don't know that NBA execs and NBA GMs and NBA coaches, I don't know if they value perceived ceiling as much as they value who they know is a good player. So even though I agree that it's probably Killian when you consider every factor, I think it's an interesting question and you're probably not wrong no matter which way you go. I'd say just to weigh in real quick,

I would say that when it comes to What you said about NBA executives calling and whom they would value the most is Bay, I would say for sure, in part just because when it comes to Stewart, I mean, Bay is just placed in a more valuable position and can just better, is better able to contribute right now. When it comes to Killian, he might, Bay might be more valuable just because he projects as a guy who can, who could be a decent starter on a championship team, whereas Killian, you know, like it or not, still does that bust potential at this point. Bay seems to have established himself in his first season as a guy with a respectable NBA four, like a very respectable NBA four. That's a good point, yeah. Yeah, we've completely left Dave. You know, Dave is the nickname of Dave Aedarservides.

I think I mispronounce his first name, but we'll actually talk about him a little bit later on this episode. All right, Tommy, what are your thoughts? I pose this question. It's funny to me that you brought up. way that it was phrased because I phrased it very carefully. I didn't want to say who do you think has the highest trade value or who do you think is the best player? I wanted to say who do you think is the most valuable player or rookie to the rebuild? Because I was thinking about this. I think it's Isaiah Stewart and I'm kind of happy that we all pick different players. And you might be thinking,

well, his numbers aren't the best. He's gotten a lot better as a starter. His percentages are so much better since he has been put into the starting lineup. We know we've talked about it at length he's rapidly improved and it's been so much fun to watch. But this is going to sound strange because I just argued against it, but the culture of this team has benefited so much, I think, from Isaiah Stewart being out there. There was a quote from Killian, and I'm just going to paraphrase it because I don't remember the exact wording,

but it was like, we all look up to Isaiah because he works so hard. Isaiah does not take plays off, and he does not stop, like, running. If he's just walking onto the court, like every other player walk, under the court, they'll walk to their spot on the floor. Isaiah does not do that. If his teammate falls down and Isaiah's on the opposite end of the court, he goes and gets him and he jogs there. He's like with the first guy there, and I love that.

There were a couple times tonight where Joel Embed, like after something frustrating happened, he just, he was tired. And that's fine. Obviously, Joel Embed is playing at an MVP level. They beat the pistons pretty handily, which a lot of teams haven't done this year. But I just love the way Isaiah Stewart plays. and not to bring up Drummond again, but it's just the antithesis of that. Because Drummond, one bad thing happens, head down, and that was the culture of that team.

That was why that team never convinced me that were ever going to be winners. Isaiah Stewart just, he is a convincing winner because he tries so hard. And even though athletically, I've talked plenty on here about how I think his ceiling might just be a bench guy, he's changed my mind. Or he's made me open to the idea that maybe he's more than that. And it's not just coming from his play. It's coming from what he does to his teammates because I think he makes them play harder. And I think for a team that has been trying to establish a new culture, and I think successfully has, that is incredibly valuable.

So I worded it exactly that way because I wanted, I guess, to mention that, but I just love Isaiah Stewart's game. Nobody plays harder than that kid. And if you watch other teams, broadcast they all notice it and that's going to be incredibly valuable for the pistons that's an interesting way of looking at it I think again yeah that that definitely boils down to on you know on many levels and tangibles rather than direct on-court production and we've we've spoken about it here several

times how just he seems to just make the team better and and that's true of course he's also a pleasure to watch and he actually has done pretty well during his his brief appearance as a starter, 12 games, about 29 minutes, 12 points per game, 10 rebounds, two blocks. And there's also been a very good rim protector as a starter on about, again, it's only 12-game sample, but that's still pretty good. And just I know we're mostly talking about this in qualitative fashion. It's the last statistic ultra-out, but on seven rim defenses per game, he's allowed only about

49% which is fantastic. Low 50s is good. If you're below 50% in terms of rim defenses, you know, field goal percentage, a lot of rim defenses, then you're in great shape. I think, though, that's, that does minimize to a degree

what Killian could conceivably offer. I don't think Stewart's likely to be this kind of like elite in any capacity. You know, maybe as a defender. That is an important capacity. Don't get me wrong. So I put that poorly. I don't think he's likely to be a sort of a notable score. And that's just, you know,

like it or not, the way the NBA is set up right now with offense being so overwhelmingly important. That's a factor. And Killian could conceivably offer more on that end of things. He's no slosh defensively. But that's why I'd still keep it Killian. But of course, everybody loves Isaiah Stewart. And I think he'll be important, certainly. Yeah, I think I'll listen. Like I like that we had three different answers because I believe that each argument has merit. I think that anybody could contend for any of the three first round rookies and Dave, I guess. And they would be, you know, they would be right.

And those arguments would be good. I loved what you said, Mike, about how, well, I didn't love it if this comes true. But you said that Killian could still very realistically be a bust. And none of us want that to happen. but if you look at the games objectively, right, and you look at how everyone's performed, and even if you're not a Pistons fan, looking at it through a Pistons lens and in the context of what we need as a franchise, if you're just a fan of some other NBA team and you've been loosely paying attention to the Piston season, you know, you might say that Storor

or Bay has been the best rookie and therefore they're the most valuable rookie, right? And so based on what we've seen so far, I feel pretty empowered to make the claim that I know that Sadiq Bay is going to be a good player. I know it for a fact. I know that Isaiah Stort's going to be, I'm like 99% sure he's going to be a plus starter, but I know for a fact he'll be a valuable player. We don't know that of Killian. We don't know that for a fact. I think there's a chance that what he's shown so far, he doesn't progress past that stage now. I don't think that's likely, and I don't hope that happens, but it's a very real possibility that none of us want to acknowledge that, but we might have to if we want to answer this question, honestly,

where Sidique and Isaiah have shown in NBA games that they're capable of contributing to winning, right? And so the fact that we're even able to have this conversation with equal merit for the three of them, I think that's a good sign. It's a fact that we've drafted three players who conceivably could be incredibly important and critical when it comes to how the rebuild goes. So those are my thoughts on that. Why don't you, what do you think, Tommy? Yeah, as long as we're talking about Killian Hayes, I just wanted to bring up, one thing like yeah

I'm happy that he's done a lot better but he's kind of gotten to where we expected him to start and the issues that we foresaw coming into the season coming into his career honestly are still there and I talked to you Dante about this before the podcast the difference between

everybody kept mentioning why is nobody hitting the shots the killing is getting to them like we've talked at length about how we love his passing vision, and it is still fantastic. But I think the difference between Killian Hayes and Lamello's ball is passing is that Lamello puts the ball exactly in the right spot, and Killian just gets the ball there. Like he's not putting it in their shooting pocket.

A lot of times when they catch the ball, it's like off to the side or catching it high or low. I think that's going to be something that Killian has to work on if he's going to reach his ceiling. And again, I'm still not convinced that he's like pure point guard material. I still think he might be more valuable as a shooting guard. So it's fun to me that we have this conversation and that he still definitely, I think, has the high ceiling. I just don't, I still don't have faith that he's going to reach it. Like, he hasn't improved as much. I know he had a good game tonight, but he hasn't taken the steps that I was hoping for.

And I'm aware, yeah, he missed 41 games. But just I'm still thinking about, like, who he was when we drafted him and what we saw before that. So, Mike, what are you thinking? I'm not really concerned. I've said it before. I'll say it again. I'll be concerned. I'll be still bad at the end of the next season.

Just given the character of his first offseason, where he came from in just terms of the quality of competition. And, yeah, the fact that he basically is just starting. You know, he had a very short time, you know, in a very kind of strange role before his injury. Now he's just really starting his NBA career. He's raw. he's got a ways to go. But of course, the bus potential is there. And he's going to have to bring more things.

Thanks to just this pretty lackluster athleticism, he's going to have to bring more things together than what the average player. But I'm not really worried based on what I've seen already. You know, it could be a year three player even. We'll see. All right, why don't we move on to question number three? Okay. This one I have, this one I just thought of, honestly.

I don't even know if it's a good question. I'm bringing this one up because we all had different answers. And the draft is obviously on everybody's mind. We saw a few years ago, the Mavericks traded up from fifth to third, and it cost them a future first. Would you guys be willing to trade? Let's say the Pistons picked, they received the fourth pick. All right?

So that basically, let's say that gives you the choice between Jonathan Cominga and Jalen Suggs. And like if you like even if you like just loosely know about these guys, you can still answer this question. If somebody offered you the third pick, but it's going to cost you one of the rookies, which one are you trading? So you're offering the fourth pick and a rookie. You pick the rookie, but you get to move up to third. Or do you not even make that trade? Depends on who's still there at four. I mean, it's not out of the question that Jalen Green will be on the board of four.

Let's say that it's jail. You're trading for Jalen Green basically. Let's say the draft order is Cade Cunningham, Evan Mowgli at two, Jalen Green is there at three, and somebody's offering you the third pick for your fourth pick and one of the rookies. You have to pick who? All right. I hate to do this, but it would have to be David Servetus. He's a rookie.

He broke the game. Yeah, he's actually, he may be a decent NBA player. I know. I know that this was a joke. You're talking about one of the three of them. I would imagine probably Saban doesn't figure into that question because he doesn't call it. It's either Isaiah Stewart, Sadiq Bay or Killian Hayes. Who do you trade?

I would probably trade Killian, to be honest, if you really had a shot at getting that guy who really could be the superstar you need. And you're going to give up a point guard who really could bring it. As I've said, I think he could be at the lower end of the top 10, maybe borderline All-Star. You know, maybe a guy who makes the All-Star game once or twice if he brings everything. together. You never know what the odds on that really are. And if you think that you can move up to a position where you could really take that elite franchise cornerstone, I think you just have to take that, you have to take that risk also. And you just, you know what you're getting in Isaiah Stewart. You know what you're getting in Sadiq Bay. And I think they're both at the moment and in the

context of making such a trade. I think that they're the ones I would keep. Yeah, that's, killing what about you dante well i i don't envy anybody who has to you know give an answer to that because i really do love all three of the rookies but i kind of tend to side with mike on this one more so because of the fact that this is what i previously contended was that we know that cidique bay is a good player we know that isaiah stort's a good player we don't know that killian's going to be anything more than what he already is i think it's likely that he is but we don't know it for a fact so if you have a shot at jaylon green who who, not to get too into draft stuff,

but I have Cade Cunningham squarely in Tier 1, and then below that, I would have Jalen Green in a tier by himself, Tier 2. I think his potential is absolutely sky high. I would rather Cade, but I think Jalen is one of the best consolation prizes you could ever hope for in an NBA draft. If you have a chance to grab him and, you know, it'll cost you, Killian Hayes,

who we're not sure what he can become, I don't know if I'd make the trade, but if I had to make the trade and it meant that I needed to deal with one of those three, yeah, I agree with Mike. I would probably trade Killian as much as it hurts. And there's a possibility we could see him go somewhere else and flourish. But at the end of the day, I would say that Jalen playing as he has in the G League is kind of more of a sure bet than Killian is right now based on how he's performed in the NBA thus far.

So not a fun question to answer, but if I had to answer it, that's probably how I would respond. What about you? Yeah, I like this. I like this because it is hard to answer. It's probably easier for me out of all the three of us because I would also pick Killing. It's fun to me that we all had different answers for who we think is the most valuable rookie, but we are all trading Killion in this case. But yeah, I'm giving away Killion.

I still see him as a really good two guard who, or like a combo guard, who just makes use of his vision. And ideally, I think he's shooting pull-up threes. off the creation from somebody else, which is part of why I think Jalen's Hugs wouldn't be the worst fit. But yeah, I think it's Killing Hayes. So that was just, that was, I just thought of that one. I didn't know how that one would shake out. It's interesting that we all pick the same guy.

That was a good one. And I think it's funny how we had different answers for who's the most valuable, but we had the same answer for who we would trade. And that kind of goes into, it's like who do NBA GM's value? And then when it comes down to it, you got a gun to your head. We might be enamored with the potential of Killing, Hayes, but when it comes down to it, are we really prepared to deal the rookies who have actually shown that they can contribute to winning? Probably not. It doesn't seem like any of us are prepared to do

that. So I don't think Troy will be in that position, but if he is, I guess we'll see. I know. I just thought it was a fun question. Fun in a painful way. Yeah, it hurt. Dude, if that would not, if that scenario were to come to pass and that or the opportunity would not hurt me one bit to pull the trigger on that. You know, I like Was your guy, and you just, you flipped him that quickly. No, I like him. I think he has that potential, but just the,

the amount of talent available in this draft. Like, it's, what if it's Mobley? It makes it a little more difficult, but. You don't know. How about this? It's the day before the draft, so you don't know. It might be Jalen Green there.

It might be Mobley. You still make a trade. I'll hold this answer in advance until I have done a lot more research on Mowley. I want to make the truth. We can revisit this in the summer. I think these are fun. Absolutely, we can. Yep, for sure.

We'll revisit it. All right. So from here, let's move on to some user submitted questions. Number one, make sure you wish the moms a happy Mother's Day. Not really much of a question, more of a request, but sure, happy Mother's Day. It's all the moms out there. Happy Mother's Day. Yeah.

Number two, do you think Dwayne Casey is staying as coach next season? And so we really developed, dedicated an enormous amount of time early in the season, almost to the point, well, certainly to the point that we got tired of it, really bashing Dwayne Casey for the way he was coaching. I think we can all agree he's made, you know, really the perception of all, but certainly for me, perception has changed as the season has gone on. We'll talk about Casey more at length in our season recap episodes, which will, you know, be a couple weeks down the line. maybe for Casey. We'll be doing several of them, whatever the case. I would say the answer is almost certainly. I mean, I would say the only scenario in which he will not be to coach next season is if he decides he wants to retire.

He's by all indications done well with this group. They like him. And the Pistons, I don't think Casey has a good ceiling as a playoff coach, but this seems to be a position to which he is. quite well suited and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be back next season. Totally agree. Yeah, I'd say it's a 110% chance that Casey returns and it's not just you, Mike. My opinion on Casey is not quite done a 180, but it has improved so drastically over the back half of this year. Whereas we really questioned him before and we were incredibly harsh and incredibly

critical. I think he's shown him and weaver both that there was kind of a long term plan and play and based on how specifically Sadiq and Isaiah have performed, I think that kind of bring them along slowly as has started to work. Not started to work, it has worked for at least those two guys. And as far as, you know, our standing in the lottery odds are concerned, I never see us beating out Houston, so we're about as good as we're going to get there. And yeah, I do like Casey as a coach now. And honestly, based on how much my opinion has improved,

I don't know if I'd be ready to part ways with Casey in the absence of him, you know, retiring or not. I don't know if I'd want him to be fired unless, you know, some situation presents itself down the line, which it may, where we're kind of teetering on the edge of success, whether it's making the playoffs or advancing in the playoffs. And we just kind of can't seem to get over that hump. Maybe then it's time to part ways with Casey. But for the role that he's taking right now, I'd say he's maybe not the perfect coach, but he's an optimal coach for sure. Definitely. Getting these guys to buy in and just play for each. I'm glad you mentioned bringing the young guys along slowly, especially like Sadiq and Isaiah. That has been huge.

But more than that, I think getting these guys to play for each other, that is not something you see from a team that has this record and this many young guys. Because I have watched a lot of crappy basketball in the past few months as I've kind of watched these close games for the other. banking teams. I just want to see how they play out. Watching the wolves two months ago was torture. They were, that was like the ugliest offense under Saunders. And my goodness, we just, that's one of the underrated things, I think, about this season. I know we're not big fans of Casey's offense in the past. It looks a lot better this year. And maybe it's because there's less talent or like less of a one-a guy to rely on. I know Casey likes to, you know, go to his guy down the stretch, and maybe he's, like, been forced to play through everybody, and that's good.

But it just makes for much prettier basketball, and I think it's another one of those things, just setting a culture of, like, working with your teammates and being greater than the sum of your parts. I've loved that. So, very happy with the job that Casey's done. I see absolutely no reason to think that that's going to change significantly next year, unless we get Kate Cunningham or Jalen Green, and they just run everything through him. And even then, I wouldn't be too upset about that because then we have Kate Cunningham and Jalen Green. For sure.

Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. All right. Number two, any potential pieces from upcoming free agency classes, not necessarily 2021, maybe 2022. I think that's a really hard question to answer at the moment, just because a lot of it will depend upon how the Pistons look next season. That will depend in part upon the draft, but also upon the development trajectories of certain players. the Pistons will have a lot of cap space starting at the end of next season, whether they will use it immediately just depends upon where the team is, who is available.

So I think that's a real. It's a question that I would have difficulty answering at this point. It's also that I, you know, we got these questions not so long before recording and this is really one I'd like to research before. I keep any answers. So I think unless you guys have objections, we'll save this for a future episode. Yeah, it's a context heavy question, right? Yeah.

Context surrounding. How is the team performing? How have the rookies progressed? How has everybody progressed on the team, really? What trades have we made? You know, who's available, who you might not have thought would have been available. And so, yeah, it might seem like a cop out. But until we're closer to the actual free agency periods that we're referencing,

whether it's this upcoming free agency or the, next one. We can't really give an honest assessment. So that's, that's one I'm definitely interested in revisiting, though. It's a good question, and I'm sure we'll cover it at a later date. Yeah, there's just too many moving parts. Just too many moving parts there. And looking at, what is it, Jeremy Grant's contract in Mason Plumlies, I think that they had that target of, what, two years from now, you said, is to go all in and maybe assess what they have and see if it's worth continuing. And I'm encouraged by the thought of that. I don't think they're going to try to go in and spend all their money as soon as they get it.

I think they have a plan here. But yeah, definitely got to look at even the list of free agents like in a year and two years from now. That's just a loaded question. Well, in the 2K, I always signed. I just signed Kevin Durant. So we could do that. We could do that. Yeah.

I mean, I could dedicate an entire episode to all the time I've spent playing franchise mode in NBA 2K 13. Yeah. I don't know why more teams don't just sign to Kevin Durant. Yeah, I'm not sure. It always works for me. Yeah. Sure. Why not sign LeBron James? I was always able to sign LeBron James. He doesn't fit the timeline. More trade for James Hardin with six second-round picks. You could do that as well.

Interesting. All right. So next, do you think are the upcoming free agents, whom the Pistons should or should not resign? So the guys who are up for extension next season are Dennis Smith Jr., Wade Ellington, Hamido Diallo, and Saman Lee and Frank Jackson are both two-way players. The Pistons will be able to match any offers sent their way. And then you've got Tyler Cook, who was signed to a multi-year deal, but anything past the season is fully non-guaranteed, so we'll include him on this list as well, which will make it kind of extensive.

So, yeah, let's just run down the list, I suppose. Tommy, what do you say about Dennis Smith, Jr.? I don't think he's sticking around. He hasn't even been in the rotation for the past, what, a few weeks? I don't have high hopes for him. I don't really think he has a role on this team either with killing Hayes, saving Lee, and potentially another guard in this draft. Jalen Suggs, Jalen Green, Kate Cunningham, they all have some degree of ball handling ability.

Just no need to keep him around. Well, he has been injured. It should be noted, like, legitimately injured. Yeah, that's fair. But even then he didn't look good beforehand. Yeah. man Dennis Smith's my guy man I like Dennis Smith so much I kind of I feel like you could probably get him for super super super cheap and I understand that we might be potentially adding a guard but if you can sign Dennis Smith and he's not costing you a lot and he's kind of like your third point guard potentially emergency point guard I don't mind I think he's got some really good traits I thought he performed a little better than you think he performed Tommy not that he was a lead or anything but I just I like Dennis Smith I wouldn't mind keeping him around I don't think the Pistons will prioritize it,

but I would be happy to see him back personally. I like the guy. I got a soft spot for him. Yeah, I should. I mean, I think it's worth contextualizing Dennis Smith and noting that he's never been a good NBA player. He really struggled as a rookie as the offensive lead, as the guy who really led the offense.

Very inefficient, not a particularly good passer. and not even great at driving to the basket, which really should have been one of his strengths, given his just tremendous athleticism. His best stretch in his career was in the early stages of the second season when he was playing second fiddle to Luca, which by all accounts he wasn't happy about it all. Even then, you know, playing next to Luca was excellent even as a rookie.

And even then playing next to him and having much less in the way of duties, he didn't do particularly well. and then he really tanked. This was just awful when he went to the Knicks in the poor Zenghis trade and suddenly had more responsibility again. So DSJ's issues, not a good shooter, not a particularly good passer, and not good of penetrating. So, I mean, he is still very athletic.

He is still, you know, he's a pretty good defender, though his short arms don't help. I think he's 6-2 with the 6'4 wing span. and he's still got potential. And I would keep him as a third string point guard on a minimum contract. That's it. And I don't think he would stay for that. It really wouldn't be hooked Dennis Smith, Jr. at all to do that,

to be shoved pretty far down in the rotation and not really be able to get the time on the court that might allow him to kind of relaunch his career. If I were him, I wouldn't do it. So I think the Pistons could conceivably offer it to him, but I think he'll be gone other way. Oh, and I don't think he was very good with the Pistons either. I mean, this is a guy who had to, like Plumley had to handle, when DSJ was on the court, Plumley had to handle a lot of the interior playmaking because Dennis just couldn't penetrate. And you couple that with the fact that he can't play off ball because he's not a good shooter. And it's just, yeah.

So I think he's gone. All right. number two is Wayne Ellington. I'll start here. It'll depend on who is on the team and what the wing rotation looks like. Wayne is by all accounts a great guy in the locker room. And it really just depends. He came to Detroit because he really appreciated the opportunity to Wayne Casey

had given him two seasons ago when he joined the team in the buyout market. I don't think he'll be quite as sanguine on joining a rotation in which there will be hardly any space for him to play. and I don't really want him to play. So I'd let him go. I keep him honestly. He's just a cheap shooter. Everybody seems to like him.

I wouldn't mind keeping him. But yeah, I don't. If he expects to have like a heavy role and that's what he's opt. That's any role. Casey prop. Yeah. Well, if Casey promises him that, then I don't want him. But just to have him around.

And if we, you know, it's like a next man up type thing, I wouldn't mind having it. Oh, yeah, that I would do. But I don't think it. stay anyway for that. Tommy, you said everybody likes them, but I don't like them. So, I mean, I wouldn't. It seems like a great guy. He seems like a good guy.

Don't get me wrong. But if I never see Wayne in a Pistons jersey again, I'll sleep at night, man. I'm cool with it. I'm just traumatized from the, when we want to win games or when we're trying to be competitive, he's ice cold. And then when we're trying to tank, he turns in a prime stuff curry. And it's like, okay, Wayne. Like, I've just had enough at this point, and that's it for me.

So I do not want to see him back in any capacity. And I think it's important to note that a big reason, well, Mike touched on it. But a big reason that Wayne's even here is because he knew he would get playing time in Detroit. He knew he would get a, I don't know about a significant role, but a decent role throughout the season. And he has when he's been active. And so I don't think there's a world that exists where Wayne Ellington is on this team, and Dwayne Casey doesn't play him. So given that reality, I don't want him anywhere near this roster. And that's just, you know, it might seem harsh, but that's the truth.

I forgot actually somebody on the list and let's move on to Dante's other favorite player, as Corey Joseph. So he's got a $12.6 million salary next season. And only, I believe, $2.6 million of it is guaranteed. So basically, if the Pistons choose to part ways with him prior to a salary guarantee dates, than just $2.6 million stays in the books. So, yeah, Tommy, I know you like Corey more than either of us, too. I don't dislike him.

I just don't really see any utility for him next season, especially at that price. Yeah, straight after he got traded, I went to the Sacramento sub, and there was a quote from Deere and Fox talking about how Corey Joseph was really, really good for him as a mentor and really helped him adjust to the NBA and looking at Killian and the confidence issues he's had. And seeing them, like, laughing together on the bench. Yeah, maybe I'm just reading into it too much. but I see value in having a guy like that around, and he plays really, really hard, and I value that, too.

Dante, I'm not discounting the fact that, yeah, it's irritating when Corey Joseph was supposed to be a guy who I thought was going to be like another tank commander and he ends up coming here and he's really good. And maybe that just speaks to the effectiveness of this rebuild and the culture of this team, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, yeah, when we're trying to lose games, just irritating. Next year, like you said, we're probably not going to be trying to lose games.

So if there's a way to keep him cheaply, I wouldn't mind. I don't know the salary cap well enough to know if there's a way to keep him for anything less than that $12 million guaranteed. Maybe Mike, I don't know if you just know that straight off the top of your head. No, actually, I consider myself pretty well-versed in the CBA, but that I don't know and I would have to research. I'm going to guess that if the Pistons waive him and he still has guaranteed salary in the books, they're not able to resign him. basically if there were a situation in which you were able to resign with the pistons which may just be a matter of

oh you can't do it for X number of days then based on what's called set off money he was paid by the Pistons would lessen no actually no I'm wrong about that I think no actually the money he would be paid I think he might actually lessen the amount of money. He guaranteed

money he would be paid off of his previous salary by playing for the pistons again, but I'm not sure about that. So I really don't want to make any statements. What I will say about Joseph is that if he were being kept strictly as a backup point guard and his was not paid $12.6 million, then I'd say, you know, sure. Yeah, I read also, yeah, Deerone Fox said he was very important

in teaching him on ball defense, tell he was Albert and said he was like an older brother to him. And that's a nice player to have around. and he seems to be a hardworking guy, a culture guy, who is good for the young players and in general for the players around him, just by nature. But depending on how the Pistons operate this summer, they could have some cap space left over, which could mean that they could take on, they could use that to take on some contracts for additional assets of some kinds.

And if that's the case, I mean, just keeping him at 12.6 could entail a significant opportunity cost. Now, if they end up close to the cap, just after resigning, we'll talk about Dello and Jackson very soon, after signing a first round pick and signing whatever picks they have, other picks they have, and other guys they resign, and they're already over the cap, then at that point it might become a who cares situation. in that event it's like all right but the trouble is are you just going to bench him if saving lee is better so yeah i don't really feel able to give it to size of answer either way which is unusual for me yeah i don't um yeah i guess it's just cost dependent i agree with that

it's cost dependent i don't mind corey as much as maybe it would appear that i do i think it's kind of funny that uh we traded delon and and and we received Corey in two seconds and by all accounts, I'm pretty sure Corey's performing better than Delaan has performed in Sacramento. I haven't checked up on that. But given the fact that when we really want to lose games, you know, Joseph turns into prime Kyrie Irving. I would imagine he's playing better than Dilan. But maybe I understood things the wrong way, but I understood the situation as he's either on the hook for $10 million or whatever it was next year or he's not on the team. So given that, it was kind of like it's a moot point. Like they're not going to pay

Corey Joseph $10 million to be Corey Joseph. But if the situation, the financial situation is more nuanced than that, I'm ignorant to it, so I don't know. But I don't really have many strong feelings either way. I think he's a fine player, but I could do without him. Delon has actually started slow, but has actually done pretty well, whereas Corey Joseph has really overperformed his career baseline in Detroit. I mean, I think at this point is shooting like 75% the restricted area, which is

completely and utterly unsustainable. And is shooting better from three than anybody has before and so on and so forth. But yeah, I believe my answer is a not sure. Okay, so moving on. Next is, I believe, I mean, honestly, there are a couple players we could add at the end of the list, which would be Okafore and Josh Jackson. We'll visit them in a little bit. Next would be probably the most interesting member on this list.

Bihamudiala. And, yeah, what are your thoughts on him, Tony? I'm not sure because sometimes I really like him. The 35-point outburst didn't really sway me. I know that sounds crazy, but I'm not a huge believer in the idea of him, I don't know, getting like a sustainable three-point shot that you can rely on. He was brought in. Like I talked about, like, we were brought in a lot of these athletic guys who,

if they just put a three-point shot together, they're going to be really good. I'm not sure if I believe in how it is yet. There's no reason to not give him a contract, but I don't want to overpay him. And even that, like, it wouldn't be the biggest deal because we're not looking to spend all our money next summer. And I don't think anybody is anticipating some significant free agent signing.

So I don't know. Like, I guess it would just come down to the contract. I don't know what you guys are thinking. I would probably do like three for 30 would be really nice because I'm probably a bit lower on him than other people. Yeah, I would think three for 30 or like four for 36, something like that. I think that he basically, if he can shoot threes, then he's excellent at attacking the rim. Like, excellent.

Very, very good. And he's great at running the four in transition. And he has a lot of potential as a defender because he's super athletic. and long and strong. That sounded a little more sexual than I had, you know, than I planned, but I could get the point. So, yeah, so if you can shoot threes off the catch reliably, then cool, he's a guy you have to close out on.

And if you close out on him, I've said it before, if you close out on him, then he's going to beat you on the close out. You have to send somebody to help. And then he's going to, he's got good enough vision, he's good enough pass, or he's going to be able to get somebody else. and that somebody else is probably going to get a pretty darn good scoring opportunity on it. And that assumes that the help is quick enough because he's really fast. He's got good burst.

He's very agile. And he's good at scoring when he gets the basket. So, I mean, yeah, if, you know, even through contact. So if somebody even gets there before he can get to the basket, that's what it is. And if somebody gets there, they're not too unlikely to follow him. So that's a valuable player. If he can't shoot, then he becomes at that salary, kind of an overpaid role player. But I think that I would, you know, and then the contract is not so good.

But I would take the risk anyway, preferably around $9 million a year. And because if it pans out, then you've got a, you know, probably double-digit score and good defender on a very good contract. Yeah, I agree with you, Mike. I would take the risk too. I'm a big, big believer in Diallo and his upside. What I do think is that his three-point shot, you know, it doesn't appear broken. to me, like he's not a good or even adequate three-point shooter at this stage, but the shot itself looks fine, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for him to improve,

but I think it's less important what we think and more important than that, and we haven't noted this yet, I think Weaver wants Diallo on this team, you know, when he traded for him, when we traded Svi. I think the immediate comment from Weaver was that, oh, yeah, we view Hamadu as a core piece moving forward. And, you know, Weaver didn't say that about Dennis Smith, junior. He didn't trade Derek Rose for Dennis Smith and be like, yeah, Dennis is a part of our future. The most we ever got out of that was, yeah, we'll take a good look at Dennis Smith, but Weaver, who has not lied to us yet, he's been very forthright and very honest with his plans with the team, but he hasn't misled us in any way. He straight up said, we view Diallo as a core

piece, and so I don't really think it's a question of if Diallo sticks around. I kind of thought it was understood that he would be sticking around, and the price point is really the only thing that's up for contention. So I'm kind of happy that we didn't see a ton of 35 point outbursts because maybe that'll bring the price down. But I think he's going to be here for sure. That's a good point about Weaver. Clearly, from all the signings that Weaver has brought in,

he very much values like the personality and the hard work, or the work ethic, rather, of these guys. And by all accounts, Tomadu is a very hard worker. So clearly, Weaver believes in him getting better. I don't think anybody believes that this is the finished product, if you believe in Hamidu. So I think that's a very good point. I'm glad you brought that up, Dante.

You're welcome. Yeah, so moving on, Frank Jackson is in here. We actually spoke about Frank West in the last episode. I think we reached the consensus. Actually, Dante, I don't think you were here, so I'll just give the floor to you. Tommy and I, I believe, reached the consensus that we give him maybe three years at around 18 million total.

Sure. Yeah, why not? Why not? He's young. He's a good score. He has really surpassed my expectations. I'm sure all of our expectations. And I like his hair. So like, why not keep him around? Seriously, he's fine. Frank Shobabob. Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I'm in lockstep with you guys. I would keep him around for sure. And that's another one. You know, we've ever hasn't come right out and said about Frank Jackson, what he said about Diallo. But that, that's one to me based on how he's performed and based on. on his age, I think he'll be back for sure. And again, it's the price point that's the question, right? I don't know what really is appropriate, and I'll leave that one up to Weaver, but I would like Frank to be back, and I expect him to be back. Yeah, I think he's got a small body of work, so I think, I think the pistons could walk him down maybe for three years at a reasonable rate. And if that doesn't work out, you know, that's fine.

It's perfectly fine. No, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Yeah, two years of that. for him or at Diolo is probably going to be the pistons, like maybe on the third, maybe on the second year or maybe making the playoffs. Next up would be probably the least interesting name on this list, which is Tyler Cook. I think this is pretty elementary one.

He's got potential, but it's basically probably not going to be more than a bench big and the sort of probably disposable bench big. It depends on if we can shoot, but I think it just depends on who's on the roster next season, really. I think that that's basically all boils down to. And, yeah, I don't know if there are any, do you guys have any different thoughts on the matter? Tommy, do you? Nope.

Nope. Yeah, I don't have any strong feelings about Tyler Cook. And probably the organization doesn't have super strong feelings about him. He's kind of, yeah, he's all right. He's got a few cool dunks, but he's kind of just there. So I wouldn't say he's a priority. Yeah. there's Semen Lee, who's just on a two-way deal right now.

I think it's virtually certain he'll be upgraded to a standard NBA contract, probably a three-year minimum. That's, I think that's just pretty much, I believe it would be a foregone conclusion unless somebody from another team really likes him, which I think is pretty unlikely given the fact right now that he can't shoot. And, yeah, the two we were going to talk about, but we've kind of run out of time in this episode, so we're not going to, we're going to leave this.

future episode would be Josh Jackson, Julia O'Cafo. OkaFour is not really much of a discussion. And, you know, he's just not important in the team's future. And it remains really the puzzling signing of the offseason for me as far as, you know, all the guys we were signed. Oh, we forgot, Rodney McGruder. He's guaranteed $5 million next season. He's gone.

I mean, that's... Yeah, yeah, for sure. He's gone. Yeah, 5.4, actually. Maybe he'll come back on a minimum, who knows. It is just a disposable piece at this point. And, yeah, so the three we really have to talk about in the future. You know, yeah, Jaliel, who's the two-minute discussion, Josh Jackson, a little bit more.

And also, Saku, I know a lot of people who have certainly asked about that. All right, so, yeah, we did have some user-submitted questions, which we did not have time to visit. We will definitely look at those in the future. Thanks again for submitting those. So that'll be it for this week's episode. As always, thank you all for listening. Thank you all for your input and for the questions you've submitted and for listening. We will catch you in the next episode.