Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 51: Draft trade chatter & Cade’s fit with the Pistons

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

This episode discusses the reported trade market for Cade Cunningham, his fit with the Pistons, and why we're confident that he'll ultimately be the name called for the Pistons on draft night.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Driving to the Basket, part of the Basketball Podcast Network. I am Mike. I'm here with Dante and Tommy. Fellas, how you're doing today? My voice is a little hoarse, Mike. I don't know. You got any lozenges for me? I'm afraid not. I don't think they even found that sort of thing yet. I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. I'm glad you're doing okay. Yeah. So this draft we're primarily just going to be talking about, It remains really the hot button topic around the Detroit business these days, which is, of course, the number one overall pick and what will become of it. We'll take it a bit further and talk about really the aftermath, perhaps a bit as well. But first, quick word from our sponsors at Draft Kings.

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will the pistons keep the pick if they keep the pick? And I think all three of us think the answer is yes. Who will they take? And, you know, where will things go from there? We're just going to discuss sort of the, as they put it, the scuttle butt around it. I feel obligated to just note, I mean, I'm not trying to I don't know. I wouldn't say I'm not trying to give advice or whatever else it is. There are a lot of people on Twitter who are just looking for clicks.

And this includes kind of people who are just trying to grow their accounts, but it also includes the outlets who will deliberately distort actual news in an effort to get clicks. So just a quick, I would say, I don't know, disclaimer or whatever else. Don't believe everything you see on Twitter. I just, my advice is to stick to just the regular sources, the primary sources, the guys who are actually saying it. Because there are absolutely a lot of guys out there who are not at all, a lot of people out there who are not at all above distorting or just throwing out information that has no source in an effort to establish themselves. Like, yeah, anyway. So really the talk lately around the pick.

I know it's come out recently that the Rockets, through the athletic, that the Rockets are interested in trading for the number one pick but aren't really willing to pay with the Pistons or asking for it. There have been rumors that several other teams have been interested. None of this should come as any surprise, in my opinion. Teams are always interested in trading up to the number one overall pick, except for last year when the number one overall pick really wasn't that valuable. So let me just run through some scenarios, I suppose.

As I see it, there are really only three teams. that can make a compelling offer of any kind for the pick. And like I said, I don't think the past has betrayed it. Must they got just a fantastic offer. Those would be the Rockets, the Cavaliers and the Thunder. So, Tommy, would you say there is any pick, or excuse me, any offer from, say, the Rockets you would accept for the number one overall pick? No, I don't think so.

I mean, the Rockets have a lot of future first coming. They're away from, I think, the Hardin trade. And even the Westbrook trade, I think they gained some. but there's just nothing there, I think, that is valuable enough. The value of a guy who is a pretty complete player on both ends of the floor is just, it's really, really difficult to get fair value back for that kind of guy, because all that encompassed in one player is just, it's just nearly impossible to replicate over several players.

You know, there's inherent disadvantage in having guys who are both taking up roster spots and being incomplete players. Having that all in one guy is just too valuable. The Rockets really are hurting for a long time now for the foreseeable future, just because they made bad trades for Westbrook, and they got pretty bad value on Hardin, I would say. So I just don't think there's anything there that Houston can give. I mean, like, if you're thinking of trading for Cade Cunningham,

I want the entire future of your franchise. That's the bottom line for me. There are like three guys in this league that I would maybe trade this pick for. And that's Luca, Zion, and Trey Young. Because they have to be young and they have to be like proven impact players. And I just don't think that many iterations of that exist in the NBA right now. Yeah. And isn't that really just the inherent issue when it comes with all of these like discussions of trading for the pick?

Because it's like Mike said, everybody wants to trade up. for the number one pick or maybe not once, but is at least interested in the possibility of exploring it or what it would take. But that would require, you know, a team to give us something of worthwhile value at presumably greater value than the number one pick. But then they would also want to do that. So it just, it doesn't make sense from a lot of different perspectives. And yeah, I agree with Tommy. Very few, a number of players I would really want for that pick. Instead of Young, I would probably go with Tatum, maybe Trey Young too. But I don't even know about Zion. I definitely do it for Luca, but then why would the Mavs do that, right? So it's like every time you get into

these in-depth discussions about, are they going to trade the pick, aren't they going to trade the pick, it always falls apart when you realize that it just doesn't make sense. So those are sort of my issues with what we've been seeing. And I'm not really alarmed by the reports at all. I don't think that there's any conceivable offer that would move Troy off that pick. And if there was an offer that would move him off the pick, then we presumably would be happy about it because it would be some godfather offer, right? Yeah, I would say so. The only situation in which that might be slightly different is as not just in general.

I know, in any events, basically if he looked at the picks and said, well, I don't think that Kate is necessarily tremendously above Jalen Green or tremendously above Evan Mobley and said, okay, well, maybe you give me better value to make up the difference, but I really don't think that that's likely to be the case. But yeah, when it comes to the rockets, like the rockets don't really have anything. I think that would be particularly tempting the Pistons. You could say that sure they do have that pick from the Pistons that's protected until 2027, which means that right now, short of the Pistons, acquiring another first round pick.

And one of those years, I mean, they basically won't be able to trade a first round pick any year until like 2029, until the pick conveys to Houston. So, I mean, that's mild value. Houston's got some picks in the late rounds. And then they've got a bunch of picks from the nets. And like, yeah, I don't see the value there. And less, again, unless, and we're just assuming a situation here in which weaver doesn't think that, hey, you know,

the difference between Cade and green isn't, for example, isn't so great. I don't think that case can really be made. That the difference isn't that great at least when it comes to the Pistons. So I think the best package you can put together is the Rockets. Reasonably speaking, like we're talking, I'm not throwing five future firsts at the Pistons. So reasonably speaking is number two in the summer's draft and Houston's 22 first round pick for those wondering,

now that would not be a violation of the Stepping Rule, the Stepping Rule, which stipulates that teams cannot be without a first round pick in two consecutive seasons. It's kind of a long drawn-out explanation, so I'm not going to get into it. Whatever the case, I'm not feeling necessarily confident that the Rockets will be a terrible team next season.

And in any event, you just never know where a pick is going to fall. Could end up being surprised. They could end up being quite a bit better than expected. And I don't think he'd have pissed in one, Kevin Porter, Jr., J. Sean Tate, it was like a 25-year-old rookie, and Christian Wood is, you know,

in a piss and sweat that ship's sail they could have kept him. Do you guys see anything different when it comes to the cavaliers? I mean, I know it's almost like hypothetical at this point because I know the answer is no. Well, if for some reason the calves decide to go crazy and they offer us Chetty Osmond, I would do that. I would do that one. Other than that, I don't see much. I don't know, man. Chetty Osmond the next year, we don't need two.

That's true. I mean, you don't want to pass up on Larry Bird, though. I mean, with Chetty Osmond, the Turkish Larry Bird. No, but realistically, I don't. And then even you do have to consider if you trade the number one pick and the team you trade it to Picks Kade, that team will be better, right? By all conventional logic, that team will be better in the future, thereby declining the value of the first round picks. You're going to be given back. So it just, it doesn't make sense.

It really doesn't. And Mike, you said this at the beginning of the episode. I'll echo it. You ought to be mindful of what you're reading, especially on Twitter, because there's, narratives to push. There are clicks that people want to generate. And I don't know if I necessarily agree. I'm sure you guys have seen this. Some fans think that a lot of this attention surrounding the trading of the first pick is to do with the fact that the media doesn't want Cade in Detroit or you know, the media hates Detroit or we're just not a popular, I don't know, team destination,

whatever. I disagree. I think there's a lot of intrigue around the first pick almost every single year, like Mike said, not last year because there was no clear-cut guy. But every time there is a guy who you're going to take with the first pick, there's a lot of intrigue, right? And so I'm not personally offended by it. I think this is a natural kind of news cycle thing, but it's probably best to ignore it until the draft. And checking my watch, we don't have too much longer. And I know it feels like it, but in the grand scheme, not really. And this will all be over soon. Yeah. I mean, I think if you're really looking to make a trade for number one over, I don't think you're looking at future picks just because the uncertainty behind them is just

so great. I think it is you're targeting specific young players, like we said, Luluka, Trey, Zion, and I don't think any of those guys are on the move anytime soon. The only one, the only trade offer that I saw that was like somewhat interesting to me was SGA and the sixth overall pick from OKC for the number one pick. Let's clarify, not trade offer. This is from a. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, from an article written for the athletic of just hypothetical. It's basically ahead of the draft. Yes. A proposal. Not proposal, just hypothetical proposal. Yeah, hypothetical. Yeah. That one was interesting because, I mean, Mike, you're probably the biggest SGA fan out of the three of us, but he's a good young player.

The only thing I saw there, I don't think. I still wouldn't do it personally. It was just interesting to me because he is a good young guard, but he also moves up your timeline considerably because he was drafted in, what, 2018? and, you know, he'll be looking to get pretty significant money pretty soon. I think one of the advantages that the Pistons have right now is that their core, other than Jeremy Grant, they're all guys who, I mean, I'm thinking of Sadiq Bay, Isaiah Stewart, maybe even Killian Hayes, these are all guys who are going to be under their rookie contracts for another three years. You know, they're going to be cheap talent, and then we'll have their bird rights to extend them.

If we can pick up decent free agents before those extensions kick in, we can potentially add a lot of high value talent and then extend them. And there's a lot of advantages there. Like you see it right now with teams like the Cavaliers, they have to either pay Colin Sexton or let them walk. They have to pay Jared Allen or let him walk. And kind of making those decisions really hurts your flexibility and your ability to add more talent.

So I think there's a pretty significant advantage to just keeping the pick and hoping that Kate Cunningham ends up being comparable, value just because you have more flexibility in the next couple of years to add talent and free agency. Yeah, I am big on SGA, just because I think he's already well under the track to superstardom. He's a player who has really improved every year and in the games he played in this last season. Granted, he played less than half of the season, I believe it was somewhere in the mid-20s in terms of games, but he really led the league in terms of unassisted offense. Almost 90% of his buckets were unassisted, which is tremendous.

this and he was efficient from everywhere. And he was a fantastic three-point shooter. He was a very good mid-range shooter. He was very good around the basket. And he's a, he's developing as a passer. I don't think he'll ever be that kind of, that kind of guy who's like Hardin or whoever else who's really going to be an elite facilitator.

But he's good enough. And for the Thunder, he's a guy who they already know is there. And, you know, for the Pistons and that deal, sure, you get SGA and you get the number six pick. In this draft, you know, who knows, you might have a kumanga dropped to number six if somebody, you know, whether it's Toronto or Orlando really likes Scotty Barnes. So it wouldn't be a terrible value for the Pistons. I think though, like you said, in terms of timeline, it's just not a good idea for the Pistons,

but in terms of in terms of Chai, because, yeah, you do have to pay him soon, and then your cap flexibility really disappears. But also for the Thunder, I think it's a bad idea, too. I mean, again, you've got a guy you know is there, and you've got the number six pick who may also develop into something good for you. Maybe Shy doesn't fit there a timeline super well either. But who knows, I don't think they're really worrying about that too much. It would be a pro, it would be kind of like a presty move to make.

But I don't think either team would have interest in this one. No, I don't think so either. And this is less to do with the practical and I guess analytical implications of this trade and more to do with my personal feelings. But like, I kind of, I don't know if you guys agree. I think it'd be cool to like kind of build our own thing. Like, I like that we won the lottery. I like it a lot.

It's not really a hot take. And I think it would be cool to draft Kate and, you know, he's a piston from day one. And it's his team. And we build something special around him. So I'm just, the trades that could make me raise an eyebrow are incredibly unlikely to ever materialize. And even if they did, I don't know. I'm hesitant.

I think this is a really great era we're about to see. And I'm interested in pursuing it naturally rather than trading out of this pick. So I can't say any of these offers really interest me at all. Yeah, I would say when it comes to Cleveland, also they don't really have much to offer that the pistons in which business would really have any reasonable interest. Minus Chetty. Yeah, minus Chetty, Osmond, sure. Yeah.

So, I mean, you have number three and you'll have their young core. I guess, which is Jared Allen, Darius Garland, Colin Sexton, and Isaac Okoro. Now, Sexton is the one. There have been some, there really haven't been any sourced, any sourced information as to that the cabs are looking to possibly move him. But, yeah, he was drafted in 2018. They're going to need to pay him soon. And, you know, do they want to pay Colin Sexton?

But the first, the real question is, for the Pistons have any interest in Colin Sexton, and I would say no. You know, the fact that he doesn't really fit the timeline doesn't really play into that as much for me. I feel like Colin Sexton as a player who is a, who really in order to be maximally effective, has to play heavily on ball. And he just, if you're going to have a guy who's dependent,

who's effectiveness or at least getting the most scan out of him, depends on playing him heavily on ball. He better be pretty darn good. And Colin Sexton is a guy who can perform that role ably, for the 29th ranked offense, which is what he did for the Cavs. He's not a guy you want to be handing the ball to and saying go to work on a regular basis unless he improves a great deal, and I don't think you will. I also think it's hilarious.

I read that fans from other teams will taunt this last season we're taunting, and not excuse me, fans, players from other teams, we're taunting the other players in the Cavaliers by saying, you know, you know Sexton's not going to pass the ball to you, right? So, yeah, I don't think the Cavaliers might have much to offer. I mean, Darius Garland looks like he could be a decent player, but, you know, the Pistons are invested in Killian Hayes already. Isaac Okoro, who knows, could be a good 3-Indie wing. Who knows, Jared Allen, I think a good two-way center who doesn't really have a great deal of offensive agency.

So, yeah, I don't see that the Cavs have anything to offer either. And I agree with you in a way, Dante, if you want to build your team from the bottom up. But also, it's just like, why would you trade this pick for anything less than guaranteed value in the Pistons? Or very unlikely to get that sort of guaranteed value. Exactly. You wouldn't. And even if you, you know, would or could, it's not likely to happen. Yeah. So, I know we both, all three of us, rather, are very confidence that Cade will be the pick. So, Dante, what makes you so confident in particular that it's going to be Cade? What makes Cade the damn near close to the guaranteed pick for me is not the fact that a ceiling is that much higher than, say, a Jalen, Green, or Evan Mobley.

I think it is higher, significantly higher, I don't know. I think it's really the floor. I think someone that big, that efficient of a shooter, well, efficient doesn't even cover it, that good of a shooter with elite vision, very good defensive potential as well. He's just got all these tools that I don't see failing in any way, shape, or form. I think he's just about guaranteed to bring back incredible value, honestly. This is exactly what you need from a number one pick. and let's not even mention the attitude.

You know, we've talked about Cade's mentality quite a bit over the last two, three episodes and misfits perfectly into pretty much what Weaver is trying to do. So I would be shocked if he wasn't the picked. Not only shocked, I'd be pissed. I think you guys would be too. Yeah, and even looking at, Mike, I'm sorry that when you asked us what we would like to get back from these teams, we basically just brush straight past. It's just such a disgusting idea in my mind.

But yeah, no, it kind of goes back to that initial point. Like a bunch of role players or guys who have like individual, like one or two good skills, it's just not equivalent to a guy who's all in one, a great offensive player, a good defensive, underrated defensively, honestly, and can impact like the team in the way that Kid Cunningham projectedly can. So I just don't think that there's any reason why you would make that. trade unless they really see like Kobe Bryant potential in Jalen Green like that's the only thing that I could potentially see but even then like I just think Kate is going to be such a complete

player on both ends of the floor so I just I'm still confident that it's going that Kate is going to the beat to be the pick I every time you see these headlines from these news outlets it's always like a vague thing where it's like yeah this team is looking into trading the pick but everything that we've gotten back so far it's like the Houston trade headline. It's like Houston is interested in Cade Cunningham, but they are not willing to pay what Detroit is asking. That's all very encouraging to me. Like I said, if you're going to make a trade for Kade Cunningham, I want like the next 10 years of your franchise. There's nothing short of that. And even then, I don't think that's enough. It's just he's too valuable an asset. Like he could be like a top

player in your franchise's history by the time it's all said and done. He just has that kind of projected impact. And I don't think passing on that is a good idea and I don't think it's going to happen. So my feelings on Kate, just that he's just offers too much to not just any franchise really, but to a franchise in a position in which the Pistons find themselves. So needing that franchise player, but also just the assets that he provides in terms of leadership and being a guy around whom you can effectively build. So when I look at Cabe, what makes me so sure that he's going to be the pick for the Pistons is just what he offers in the all-around sense. So sure, he can be one of these really big, really, really tall, strong offensive creators, a guy who can really really be

the primary ball handler on your team and can be relied upon to create offense in any situation, including in the clutch. This is a situation in which a category in which he really excelled. He was the best in college basketball in his one season in the NCAA. But also a guy with the leadership potential and who's good on both ends of the floor. And just back to his offense, I mean, yeah, he's a guy who can shoot. He can create for others. I think he'll be just fine on the drive.

I mean, as we all know, his, I mean, if Cade were like, a good NBA athlete. He's not a bad NBA athlete. It's more like in the realm of average in terms of his half-court athleticism in terms of, you know, weeping and his first step and so on and so forth. You know, if he were significantly above average NBA athlete, there would be no discussion. I mean, he would be like, well, he's number one overall pick. He's a consensus pick. There's no way the business are trading him. They're trading that pick. They're taking him, period. That's it. It's worth noting that the average draft does not have a slam dunk consensus.

This guy is being taken number one overall pick kind of guy. The last one was Zion in 2019. Before him, it was Anthony Davis in 2012. And sometimes you have a real crap shoot of a draft like 2020. But whatever the case, yeah, on offense, can provide you almost anything. On defense, he's going to work hard and compete. And, you know, he'll be a leader, presumably on. and off the court, super mature, is going to work hard to improve, very intelligent, diligent,

all of these things all around. And you look at the other two guys who are listed to go behind. I mean, the guy in the top four who has those mental intangibles that Kate has also is, of course, Jalen sucks, but nobody, I'd be very surprised to see him go in the top three. So, like, if you look at Jalen Green, sure, super hard worker, highly athletic, you know, really has a ton of offensive potential. and it could grow into being a decent defender, but he just doesn't have that all-around sort of thing.

I don't think he has the sort of mental qualities. And Evan Mobley, again, could be a great two-way player. I don't think he has those mental qualities either. Also, he doesn't really have that kind of, he lacks that sort of at this point the killer instinct that the other three in the top four have. So I think Kay just gives you too much, and this is just too ideal for where this team is right now.

Well, I was just going to ask if you guys have been watching any of his interviews that are on YouTube. Like I know Tommy's brought it up a few times. Him reviewing his own film. That was a great watch. And then he had a very short interview with Kevin Durant. Another one with D. Wade. And then of course, the one with JJ Reddick, I went back and I watched the whole thing.

He is like shockingly mature for someone his age. Like I was doing stupid stuff in 19. And Cade's like going full vegan, working on his body, reviewing his own film. Like this is, there's just a poise about him. sort of like a calming confidence, I guess you could say. Not to drool over him too much, but he really is truly someone that I'd like to lead the franchise. And I have every expectation that he'll do an exceedingly good job at it. And it's like you said, Mike, yeah, Suggs possesses a lot of those same attitude and mental qualities,

but the talent disparity is just too much. So I'm confident that Weaver is going to evaluate this to be the case as well. And he's got to be the pick. He really just has to be. Yeah, I was thinking about this stuff as well, like trying to just in my head as an exercise, trying to make the case for Jalen Green. And one of the other things that this is actually a detriment against Jalen Green, but I think Jalen Green, his style of play, I don't want to say it's likely he'll be injured,

but I think he has a lot more injury risk just because he is a very above the rim, you know, attack the basket player. And it's a lot of fun to watch. But, you know, you kind of think back to D. Rose almost like just. the landing mechanics. I don't know if they're great. I'm not a doctor, but I don't know. That's just another concern that I have. I feel like Cade, the way he plays, it's kind of the slow, more methodical game, and he's not playing super above the rim. You know, he's not falling down a ton. I just think that there's less injury risk. I think his game will age a lot more nicely.

I think he could have a longer career where he's kind of maximizing his projected skill set, as opposed to most of these young guys who are like hyper athletic are they kind of drop off probably sooner you know they usually if they're going to be in the league a long time they have to adjust their game yeah i agree his game will very likely age a lot better than that of the other three jalen green of course a lot of his game is tied up isn't in his really incredible athleticism and you lose that things get a lot more difficult for you or you know any they're unfortunately a fair number of injuries. It's largely just to kill A's and ACL.

But, yeah, some players are much less able to weather that sort of loss of athleticism. I would I would liken Jalen Green more to Derek Rose than I would liken Jalen Suggs to him. Suggs. I mean, Derek Rose is really something else as a leaper or was continues to be pretty good, but really was something else as a leaper off of both feet. Jalen Suggs is not a good one-foot leaver. But I agree. I mean, that fearlessness, unfortunately, being completely fearless,

isn't going to keep you from getting injured. You know, it's like you can be, you know, you can be perfectly willing to go and just barrel through whoever and absorb that contact and say, okay, well, at the very least, it's going to get me to the rim. But, you know, afraid of it or not, you can still easily get injured. Yeah. You could be as brave as you want. If your knee doesn't bend that way, your knee doesn't bend that way.

Exactly. And, yeah, and Evan Mowgli, I think honestly has the greatest injury concerns out of the three of them. We said it, or I said it rather, on any episode we did, our deep dive in Evan Mowgli rather. It's the guy who is as tall and lanky and mobile as him and moves the way that he does. I just think the concerns are very significant

in terms of his health over the course of his career, particularly if, as he will need to do, he begins playing more physically in the NBA. So, yeah, and whereas Cade, Yeah, he's much, he's much, should be much less prone to that loss of athleticism, especially just in terms of, you know, even just over there, even, even just over in terms of aging, you know. And generally, guys in the NBA don't really start to, uh, to noticeably athletically decline until like they're somewhere in their early 30s. So that would be like a long time in the future

for K. But even then, he would be more immune to that. And yeah, when he drives in, it's, I mean, it'd be nice if you were a better leaper but mostly he just kind of uses smarts his ability as a shooter off the dribble but even i mean when you're getting the restricted area a lot of it's just the strength he's already very strong and and by all accounts he is working to get even stronger now in in the off season yeah yeah yeah time yeah that's a great point yeah no kate is all skill at this point like he's not relying on athleticism the way the other top prospects are that's kind of the maybe we've been like thinking about this wrong that's kind of one of the kind of one of the of the, yes, athleticism, surely, is one of the things that kind of raises your ceilings or

determines your ceiling. If you're not a great athlete, you're just not going to be an NBA player. I don't know if you guys follow like the high school scene at all. I only follow it just because I kind of like to know who's like the top prospect out like two minutes from now. You're talking great athlete in the overall general population sense, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, okay. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, any of the three of us could be. one of the most incredible shooters ever, but we'd get run over in the NBA.

Right. I think of, there's a kid named Julian Newman who was supposed to be like the next big thing. He had a little reality show where his dad would yell at him. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. He's not going to be an NBA. He didn't even get like, I don't think he got like D1 offers because he's like five, six.

And he's just not athletic enough. Like there was all this hype behind him because he was like a really good elementary and middle school player. but if you don't have the NBA body, you're just not going to get there. There are some good videos of Julian Newman versus Jalen Green at these three-on-three basketball camps. I don't know if you've ever seen those,

but Green just absolutely outclassed him in every way, shape, and form. And that's the difference between a hyped, you know, very skilled high school player versus an legitimate NBA prospect. Yeah. Yeah, I would say with, like, Sky, I don't know how many of our listeners are familiar with Brian Scalgrini.

We've talked about him on here before. but, you know, for those of you are, yeah, Scalabrini, by the, like, he probably wouldn't even made it to the NBA now with just how much more important athleticism is than it was, like, 25 years ago. I mean, he last played in the NBA, like, in the late 2000s, but he came in in the late 90s, I believe. But even by the standards of just the regular population, Brian Scalabrini at age, you know, did like in his, it is early to mid-40s, I believe now, maybe around 40, I'm not

sure, but and probably in like the, even back then, like the, you know, fifth percentile tops in terms of NBA athleticism would walk over anybody in the general population because he's a way better athlete than. I mean, I'll say, I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you make it to the NBA, I mean, assuming you're not just one of these increasingly few big guys who are just there in large for it because you're tall, it doesn't really work anymore. So if you make it to the NBA and you play one game in the NBA, you are an incredible basketball player. Like, incredible basketball player. So, and we brought this up, like, in the Jalen Green episode, like, the G League is an

incredible basketball league. You've got to be fantastic to make it there. I mean, the top, you know, the guys who make it in the G league are like in the upper echelons of the NCAA. And if you make it to the NCAA, you're a great bastard. I play D1 basketball. You're a great basketball player. But anyway, I've gone off off in a tangent.

So what were you saying, Tommy? No, it's just, I think it's just another consideration. Like, if Kate is what he says he can be, and if we really do have this foundation, where we could, you know, be a good team for a long time, it is exciting the idea of having a guy who could be a great player well into his 30s, just because, like I said, Kate is all skill right now.

He is not beating guys with athleticism. He's muscling his way in sometimes, but a lot of what he does is still just very mechanical. He's, up and under, his ball fakes, just really good control of the ball and his body. He's just beating people off of skill. He's not beating anybody off of, you know, 1% or 99th percentile athleticism. He's just smarter than everybody, than a lot of the people he's going to go up against. So I think that bodes well for his game in the future and how he will age.

And I think that's another factor. Like, we've said it a million times. You're talking about a franchise changing talent here. you want that guy to be good for as long as possible. Yeah, outskilling everybody. I like how you put that to me because it sort of leads into something that I wanted to, I've wanted to bring up for a while. This athleticism discussion surrounding Cade, it's like,

you'd think the guy has one leg. The way people talk about him, like he is some decrepit old man who can't even, like the guy can dunk between his legs, okay? He is an athlete. He's a very good athlete. By NBA standards, he's, he's an average one.

You know, I wouldn't say he's bad. He's just average. And when you combine that with these other skills, like you've got obviously the consensus number one pick. And then there was a very interesting article in the athletic. I think you guys have read it. I'm sure a lot of the listeners have either seen it or read it themselves. Sam Bessini, yeah.

Right, right, right. It was a collection of quotes from anonymous coaches, college coaches, excuse me who had coached against Cade, executives, whatever. And one of them brought up an interesting point. I believe it was he was titled Executive Number 2. And he basically said regarding these athleticism. Oh man, I love Executive Number 2. Well, he's a smart guy.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. He's like, you know, who is the bad guy, an Inspector Gadget who never showed his face? That's Executive Number 2, where he's just shrouded in mystery. And that's him and he's pulling all the strings behind the scenes. That was sort of an obscure reference. You get my point, though. But what executive number two basically said was that Cade was so much better than his competition in college that he never had to out athlete anybody.

He was just so good, so much better that he used pure skill to dominate. And so he was never put into these athletically averse situations, if that makes sense. And so this sort of reminds me, it's a bit of a tangent, but there's a very great Italian striker for the national Italian team, Mario Bellatelli. And he really came alive during the World Cup like five, six years ago. And when he was asked why, you know, he had never shone to this degree before, why he'd never reached that level of stardom, he said he'd never faced world-class competition that pushed him to be at that level. So I'm not saying that Kade's going to get to the NBA and all of a sudden be the fastest guy on the court.

What I'm saying is he's such a highly skilled player, so much better than those around him that we've seen so far, that we really don't know what he's truly capable of. when he's faced with maximum adversity, and he's forced to utilize his maximum potential. So I guess we're going to have to see. Yeah, I've seen him with decent teammates. That's the more exciting thing. No, no, Jeremy.

He told me that his teammates. He's overhares. And he's basing around him. I'm salivating the idea of that. Absolutely agree. Yeah, I think first it should be noted that this was, this guy was Eastern executive number two, should not be convinced, confused with Western

executive number two. Right, right, right. He was on an entirely different level. Of course, jokes aside, of course, from what you said, yeah, you do have to worry a little bit. Like, yeah, he did just outskill guys in the NCAA. And, you know, he's going to have to adapt in the NBA, of course, from, you know, what you were talking about, Tommy. Like that, yeah, he was doing everything on skill. And you worry, of course, the NBA is a drastically higher level of competition.

And you're going to have to adapt in order to. continue having that level of success. That said, yeah, Cade's skill set isn't as dependent upon athleticism and that's nice and I think that'll make it easier for him to adapt. And I do have the confidence that he'd be able to adapt just based on his work ethic, his overall skill level and his intelligence. And from what you said, Dante, about athleticism. Yeah, it's fine if you're an average NBA athlete. It's just really helpful if you're an elite NBA athlete. And that's A great deal of your superstars are elite NBA athletes because I guess it's just such an asset. It's not a necessity.

We have guys in the NBA certainly. I mean, I don't like to make the Luca Coms. I'm just trying not to make Comps at all when it comes to Kade. I don't think it's necessary. But, yeah, I mean, Luke is one of those guys who is able to compensate because he's just elite and absolutely elite in other areas. Now, something I do want to bring up is that just in terms of not in terms of, not in terms of, you know, pure fit for Cade, but in terms of, like, it's been said, it's been reported that he's excited that the opportunity to play for the Pistons. And that's nice to hear in any event.

A player's excited to play for the Pistons because, you know, not a big market team. I'm not, I'm not saying that the Pistons are, you know, that players would be averse to playing for the pistons. And neither am I, nor am I saying that a player being excited to play for the Pistons is a big deal because Stanley Johnson, you know, Mr. Detroit versus everyone. It's like, yeah, it's nice, but you kind of have to have the. skill in the workouts to go along with it, and he had neither. But I think that the pistons are particularly good fit in terms of what he's looking for. I mean, he went on and talked about his goals for his development between being rookie to year and making the All-Star game in the second

season and so on and so forth, but really wants to be with a team that's going to prioritize his development. And if you're looking at the teams that are in, you know, at the bottom of the standings in terms of the teams that were most likely to pick him, like, The Cavaliers already have Sexton and Garland. Those guys are highly on the ball. The Rockets will have John Wall, probably, at least for the upcoming season. Maybe they'll buy him out in his final season. I believe he's got, yeah, he's got two more seasons left than his horrible deal, I think,

and there's no way that guy's turning down his player option for like $50 million. So, I don't know the numbers in front of me, but he's a heavy ball handler. You've got Kevin Porter Jr. probably he'd be handling the ball of fair amount, too. the the raptors i mean who knows in that case you only got fred van fleets who knows if they would have kept kyle lowry uh the magic of like however many guys they're trying to develop the guard spots of course k but get priority over them but with the pistons really you come into a system in which he's going to really get priority on the ball there's kylian hayes who has no issue playing off the ball uh you've got jeremy grant to help with creation but is really an off ball a very capable

off ball player, Sadiq Bay is capable of off ball player. You know, Isaiah Stewart's going to give you what he gives you. It's a good place for Cade's develop. I think if I were him, I would be pretty happy. And this is as much as we've ragged on Dwayne Casey for not being an ideal coach when the Pistons are trying to win or as in early, as we did early last season for losing in exactly the wrong way. You know, yes, and I have my doubts as to whether his reputation as a developer and

the Raptors were, was merited. and doubts that were largely dispelled over the end of the later stages of last season. Yeah, I think it's a good place for him. And not for anything, why wouldn't you be excited? I mean, these young guys coming in now, especially in the age of social media, I feel like legacy and what they could potentially be fame-wise or reputation-wise plays a big part. And a lot of the teams in the NBA, let's say 90% you think of the team and then you think of a guy. You know, you've got LeBron's Lakers, you've got Tatum's Celtics, you've got Chetty Osmond's cavaliers.

It's, it's funny because Detroit, for as historic and, you know, typically popular of a team as they are, we don't really have a guy. I mean, Jeremy Grant, I guess, is the face of the team right now. Maybe Sadiq Bay, depending on who you ask. But like, Cade can come in to a team that has a lot of backing from the city and that backing is going to continue the more they win and win. And he's going to be the face of, yeah, of a historic team. And so there's, I agree with what you said, Mike, about how being excited to play for Detroit is, you know, Stanley Johnson. Henry Ellenson was excited to play too. It doesn't necessarily mean anything.

But it is nice. And I think that he has a lot of good complimentary players around him as well. Sadiq Bay, Isaiah Store, Jeremy Grant, Killian Hayes, if he continues to develop as a facilitator. He's in a good spot. And so if I were him and I was his camp, looking at all these potential situations that he could have gone to, he probably ended up in just about the best one out of the lot. So if I was Kate, I'd be excited and as a fan, I'm excited too.

Yeah, definitely. I still think about that draft night video where they were at that restaurant in Miami. And you hear them hyping up the fact that it's Detroit, but then you listen carefully, one of them says they were worried it was going to be Cleveland. So that makes me feel like it's a little bit more genuine. And that's encouraging. But, you know, as good as this is, we're still not, you know, a guarantee contender. There's still a lot of teams in the East that we have to get through eventually.

And I think the work certainly just isn't done for the front office. So, I mean, the discussion now becomes how do you maximize Cade once he gets here? I mean, we've kind of laid out now why we think it's going to be Cade Cunningham and why we would be shocked if it isn't. But certainly the work isn't done. And even though we have this incredibly lucky break and that's exciting, there's just a lot that still needs to be considered and a lot of needs that need to be addressed. So I was thinking about the Pelicans because they were kind of in the news recently because there's a rumor that they want to trade the 10th overall pick for some veteran help.

And this is on the tail end of these other rumors that Zion's family wants them out of New Orleans. And this is what, two years later? Like, these are the signs of a bad organization. And this is still a team that has Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, those are good young players. But a lot of the other decisions that they've made have just been terrible. Like, Mike, I know that you hate Stan. And that was certainly a head scratcher even at the time of, like, we all knew, like, no, that's not going to work. This is a horrible idea for them.

David Griffin, I think he's a pretty mediocre executive himself. He got pretty lucky with LeBron coming back. And, you know, Cleveland getting a pretty hot streak of, you know, top. picks in the draft. All those were factors and it ended up working out there, but this is kind of him getting exposed as, you know, signing Sam, Stan Van Gunney as their coach and him being fired after one season. Not surprised. And then the biggest one, though, the biggest head scratch to me has always been, why would they sign Stephen Adams? He operates in the same space as Zion, and that's just, it's infuriating to me. Like, you have this potential, like, all-time great talent, like

physical beast and you put a guy who operates in the same spot as him. That's not maximizing your top end talent. And that's a concern that the Pistons need to address. Like, Zion is most effective in the paint. Why would you sign a center who's only at his best in the paint? Like, imagine if they just kept Christian Wood. Anyway, I'm just ranting at this point for a team that's not the Pistons. But the question is, how do we maximize Cade?

And I think it starts with adding more shooting. And I'm sure that you guys have thoughts on that. but I'll just start there because Isaiah Stewart, he's maybe starting to add that three point or two his arsenal. Sadiq Bay has proven he can shoot the three ball. And then Jeremy Grant, he's starting to show that he can do more than just three and D. So I think we can start that discussion because I still think there are needs that need to be addressed. Yeah, I would say just about the Pelicans. Yeah, I completely agree that David Griffin is a very mediocre executive. It was absolutely mind-boggling to me. I don't, I don't hate Stan Van

Gandhi. Well, it depends on how you define that. I will, you know, I'll resent him always, just purely for the fact that I was forced to watch him coach for those years, and particularly in those last two years of the pistons, he was just in a, like a hair-tearingly bad coach. It was just awful. In my opinion, he was, for me, he was incredibly unpleasant to watch, but it's like, this is a guy who has proved conclusively that he can't operate properly in the facing era. He doesn't know how to run a team. He doesn't really know how to do, you know, how to run an efficient offense. His offenses with the pistons were terrible in terms of the shots that were taken and the shots that were made and that wasn't all about the roster.

But it's like, yeah, this guy's proven he can't do it. He's even proven that he doesn't know how to put together a team. Like, why would you hire him? And, you know, it was a bizarre hire. It didn't work out a thing in any capacity. Like, I don't know if it's gone so far as that Zion's family wants him out of there. but they're pretty, I think it's been established. They're fairly unhappy and want things to go differently. But it's like, and part of it was that was that he expected that the pelicans would perform better. And it's like, why would you hire Stan Van Gundy if you wanted the pelicans to perform better in the now?

Like, what? Why? So in any event, agreed Stephen Adams completely befuddling. Like, why would you do that? I mean, great culture guy, super hard worker. and, you know, and a decent player in his own right, but a terrible fit. Yeah, when you're looking to trade the 10th pick for veteran help and your young superstar is about to enter what is third or fourth season, you're stumbling. Like, they're in a bad situation right now.

Yeah, they're not in a good situation. And Monzo Ball, who is decent for them, might jet in free agency as well, which wouldn't really not at all be ideal for the Pelicans. Who knows? It just depends on, I mean, he's... Actually, no, he's restricted as well, isn't he? Yeah, but I mean, it's possible. Yeah, he's a restricted free agent.

I think, let's see. Is he, he was drafted in 2017? Yeah, he's drafted in 2017. I was thinking 2016. Yeah, he was drafted in 2017 the year after Ingram. Yeah, so he's restricted free agent. But who knows what kind of offer sheet he gets from a desperate team. I don't know.

So, yeah, it's super important. But Zion, it's especially important to build around him, just because of the sort of player he is, not in terms of talent, but in terms of how he's, operates. Maybe he'll learn to shoot someday. Maybe he's this kind of player who's just like, I don't need to shoot or maybe he's the kind of player who's just not a good shooter. Whatever the case, how he is now, you really have to build around him. And David Griffin has certainly done a terrible job of that. But, and like at this point, it's like, much Drew really won it out.

Like if it was important for Zion to win, he probably should kept him. So with Kate, it'd be a little bit, it'd be much less tricky to build around him because he is. a very good shooter himself. But yeah, you got to have the right pieces. I mean, I don't want to repeat this Churchill quote again, but basically, yeah, there's a lot more work to be done. I mean, the first year went about as well as you could have asked for, but there's a lot more work to be done.

So if we're looking at, you know, what additional roster needs this team has if it's going to take the next step. And the next step, I would say, is not just to get to the playoffs. You're building the roster now, at least in the next couple seasons to at least make it to the conference finals as the team continues to develop. Dante, what do you think the needs are? I was actually going to ask you guys because I think you bring up a very astute point about Zion in that the way that he operates as a player sort of lends itself to needing

particular types of complementary pieces to maximize his abilities. I don't really see that with Cade. Cade is such an all around solid player that he can shoot, he can finish, he can do, he can pass, there's nothing that Cade can't really do. And so when you think about, well, what do you know? need to put around him to succeed. I know this is maybe sort of reductionist, but like, I don't know, good players. Like, I don't see a particular type of player that maximizes him so much as other good players who can maybe take the load off of him. And I think a lot of those are currently on the

roster. I think Sadiq Bay will be an excellent complementary piece. I think Isaiah Stewart will be an excellent complementary piece. I think Killian, if he begins to, you know, start to be able to score, he'll be a great complementary piece as well. And then we've already seen in Denver, Jeremy Grant plays very well off the ball as well. He doesn't need to be the guy to be successful. So I think a lot of those pieces are already here. They'll continue to be even better pieces as they improve. But in terms of things in particular, I mean, maybe I'm just ignorant to it and you guys can answer this for me, but I don't I don't really know what to say aside from good players. What I would say is that, I mean, no matter whom you're building around,

You just need to build a team that's going to give you the necessary accoutrements of an effective offense. Yeah, and spacing is one of those things. I mean, that's a necessity. That's not an option. You need to have ideal spacing, optimal spacing in today's NBA. Yeah. So, I mean, going down the lineup, I think it's very important that Stewart is able to space the floor a little bit, be it on short roll, mid-range, or spacing all the way out to the three-point line.

Just because Kate is an effective post-up player and opening the floor for him a bit there would be, good for him, just let him be that three-level score, let them operate as effectively as possible. And then as far as your wings, I think they should be good three-point shooters, obviously. But if they can cut and catch lobs, that's great. If they can come off of screens and shoot the three, that's excellent. Just because I think Kate is going to be the kind of player who can find these guys moving around on the perimeter. I think he's a precision passer. And then I would like it.

Like right now, I think our biggest hole is that shooting guard. I don't see the long-term solution there. I'm not a big believer in Hamadu Diallo or Killian Hayes. I think it's possible that they could reasonably improve, and maybe their effective starters in the NBA, but I don't, unless Hamid really gets his three-point shot together, I don't know that he's going to be a plus starter on a championship team. So I think our biggest need will be there.

And there are a few ways that you could go about trying to fill that hole. Like I think you could go for a more complete three-level score, a very athletic player, and obviously this is just a wish list, but I still think it's something that you need to shoot for if you really want to contend. So, you know, yeah, three-level score, or even just a guy who can, you know, reasonably convert effectively at the rim and then on the three-point line. But they should also be a good cutter, a player who moves around a lot.

The most active players are typically the ones who get the ball, especially when you have a great pass around the floor out there. So that would be another thing that you want on the wishless engine. And then just athletic. I feel like the biggest issue with the projected starting lineup right now is lack of athleticism. With Cade not being the most athletic guy out there in Sadiq Bay not being the most athletic guy either in terms of burst. I mean, they're both strong and they're both mechanical players. But having a guy who's just a high flyer, I know I said I don't believe in Hamadu, but maybe he can be that guy.

He's certainly athletic enough. But I think those are kind of the issue. So right now, if I had to pick, like, one specific need that needs to be addressed within the next couple years, I think it's shooting guard. And I think you're looking for, you know, a top three player on your team there. And thankfully, the Pistons have some money in free agency. And, you know, it's Troy Weaver. If you really believe in his talent evaluation, maybe he can find, you know, that diamond in the rough or that late, late first round gym,

who ends up being very, very high value. that's kind of what I'm looking for at this point. I think there's a lot of good pieces in place, but maybe Sadiq isn't a long-term solution. Maybe Isaiah is not good enough to be a starting five on a championship team. There are all these things that you need to consider. I just think it's important that you don't get attached to any of these players and let your emotional attachment kind of cloud your judgment in terms of player evaluation and how you value these guys. I don't think that's really much of a worry with Troy Weaver. Yeah, I get that. anybody yeah yeah i would say like one thing that comes to mind for me like in terms of basically requirements for winning a championship these days i mean and you're you're winning defense is

important and it's really great to be good to be a top defensive team even in the playoffs but you're winning on offense that's just how it is in the NBA these days and i know this is a little bit reductionist but if you want to win a championship basically you're looking at you know at least two offensive superstars or an offensive superstar and two really good. And the secondary options, I know by nature, we're talking secondary and tertiary, but whatever. I'm thinking of, for example, the Bucks with Janus, who has his own set of issues because he can't shoot. That's something that always got a play around there. But so you've got Janus, you've got Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday, and I think the Bucks are substantially underperforming and

happen for some time, but particularly in these playoffs because of coaching. I think Boutenhozer's offense basically boils down to here, guys, take the ball and please do something with it, which generally results in his Middleton and Holiday taking a bad shot, or a difficult shot, not a bad one, but a very difficult shot. So, you know, if Kate is the superstar, everybody's hoping for, then cool, you've got that. You've got Jeremy Grant, who proved, you know, proved that he could be pretty good as a creator in this last season. I think he's still a guy, you know, look at it and say, you look at it rather and say he's probably not, you know, not going to ever be like that really sort of star level creator. But, you know, maybe he finds

another gear. If so great, you still need the number three guy. And so, like, where are you going to find that? Because you just, you have to have those guys who can create offense. And I know it's tempting to look at like the Sons as an archetype. And it's like, okay, well, they've just got Devin Booker and you got Chris Paul, who's a great point guard, is in the tail end of his career. And they're in the finals. But they've had incredible look. Like, and they could have gone out in the first round if the Lakers had been healthy. And I think it's, I think it's likely they would have gone out in the first round if the Lakers have been healthy. Because I mean, Anthony Davis missed half the series. LeBron James was playing injured since before the playoffs even started. He was not himself. You go into the second rounds. Denver's number two players is injured. And who knows if they would have won to get swept without him. So who knows. But you go on with the clippers. I think it's, I think the chances are about as close as 100% as you can play things that the Sons would have lost in round three if Goli had been in there. So, you know, if they won a championship, it is what it is.

is, but you don't want to go in there and hope for luck, you know, and hope, oh, somebody else is going to get injured. So, you know, I mean, sure, you have the Raptors who won, but they got super lucky. Of course, Durant and Thompson being out and even beyond that and whatever the case. Yeah, you've got to have that number three guy. Maybe that's Samadudialo if he can get his three-point shot together. You know, if you can, I've said it before. I think he'd be a very dangerous player because he's already excellent on the way to the basket, and he becomes very difficult to cover if he can shoot threes.

but it's a question of where you can find that. Beyond that, spacing, of course, athleticism. We've said it before. Yeah, the starting lineup, if you have Cade, Killian, and Sadiq Bay, and even Isaiah Stewart, who's not a very vertical guy, you're missing out on some options. Yeah, you actually, this is kind of going back to one of your earlier points. I know that you said you can't really win on defense anymore,

but for the Pistons, like in this specific case, like four of their projected starters, Kate Cunningham, Sadiq Bay, Isaiah Stewart, and Jeremy Grant, they're all plus defenders. So I think there is some value. Like, Killian Hayes as well. He's also a good defender. Like, he's already a good defender at the NBA level.

I was very impressed by him there. But the fact that we have this type of size and length and switchability, I think that's something that we can continue to buy into. Like if we're still making this wish list of, like, what's turning out to be another all-time great player. But, yeah, no. having four guys or potentially five guys who can all switch, who are all long, tall,

like there is no weakest link on the defensive end that's going to get targeted. If we bring in a guy like that, I think that is very valuable because I think a lot of offenses, they do just try to switch the weakest defender onto, you know, their primary option and attack that guy. So with the Pistons as things stand right now, I don't know that there is one. Who do you, who would you look to on the pistons next year?

Like, let's say the starting lineup, or the lineup is Cade Cunningham, Killian, Sadiq, Jeremy, and Isaiah. All of those guys are capable defenders. I mean, maybe you try to pull Isaiah out to the perimeter, but even then, like, Isaiah can move his feet well. There's just nobody who's going to be like, all right, this is their weakest link. Let's attack this guy.

I think there is real value in that. And I would like if the guy that we look to fill that spot is a guy who can, you know, we're confident that if he gets switched onto is not going to be a liability, let's say. So I know that offense wins championships right now, but I think defense is still a very, very important part of getting there. And I think especially right now, we have the chance to have a very good defensive team. It's very important, but ultimately, and almost every team of the recent past is won the championship has been a high-level defensive team in the playoffs. It's very important to be able to do so.

But on offense, offense is just that much more important. I mean, you cannot mask the, you're not going to be able to compensate for lacking that, you know, those super talented creators on offense by playing well on defense. I can use as a recent example, like the Raptors in 20. 2019, who were a very good defensive team. You look at their starting lineup, which was, I think they were without Ande Novi, so I'm missing on somebody right now. Okay, never mind. So they were starting Kyle Lowry, needs no explanation.

Fred Van Fleetz, also a very good defender, Kauai Leonard, Pascal Seacum, and Markasal, and Ibaka, of course, basically the six-man. You had six pretty darn good defenders. And I still think that if the Warriors had not lost both Thompson, and Durant and it only lost one, the Raptors still would have lost. Because, I mean, granted, the Warriors still would have been a very good team without those players. But, I mean, it's just that you've got to have that offense.

And the Raptors weren't super strong offensively. They, you had Kauai, like basically Kauai was really relied upon to create a lot of difficult offense himself. I think as good as Kyle Lowry as a score. I mean, he's not really that sort of a league creator by any means. So, yeah, it's very nice to have that defense. But you got to have that offense. You have to have the defense too, but you really have to have the offense.

Yeah, the next thing I was going to say, Mike, and you actually preemptively answered it, I was going to say if the starting lineup is Cade, Killian, Sadiq, Jeremy, and Isaiah, I wouldn't even say that's five capable defenders. I'd say that's five plus defenders. And it's exactly what Tommy said. There's nobody that you target and you say, okay, we're going to attack this guy and get easy baskets. It's like this is a very good defensive team. So what I was going to say was, well, I was going to address it to both of you,

but basically does that high level defensive acuity, how much does that make up for perhaps a lack of like a secondary elite creator? But Mike has sort of answered the question and that it doesn't. Yeah, it really, you just can't shirk on offense these days. It's, I mean, that goes without saying it. I mean, I know a lot of people pine back to the days of the bad boys and the going to work piss. And so it should be noted that bad boys were actually a fairly capable offensive team. Nonetheless, yeah, it's fun to watch a team play grinding defense and really just succeed with that hard work.

But you can't do it anymore. It is important. I know I'm repeating myself. It is certainly still important to be a good defensive team, certainly in the postseason. and to certainly have those switchable defenders because in the in the postseason you're much for much greater amount of the time you're going up against the opposition's best players because rotation shrink and your top players are likely in the playoffs going to be playing around 40 minutes a game if not more than 40 minutes a game and also isolation offense becomes a much bigger staple if you can get those mismatches you would just you just constantly attack them so Yeah, it's very valuable to have, and I think it's a major asset, but it's not going to get you very far in the playoffs if you don't have the other guys you need. Yeah, I just, I think there's a lot of value in it because there is a lot of value in it. Absolutely there is, but I mean, can that make up for offense?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If Kate is the guy, then it's not as much of a concern. Like, it's not like, I'm saying, it's not like when we were talking about Suggs and it was like, well, this is still a team of five plus defenders. Suggs is not the creator. He's not the impact player that Kade projects to be. It's just less of a concern at this point.

I just think that you generate a lot of turnovers. This team already runs the floor very well. There's advantages to be gained everywhere. And continuing to buy into that identity, I think, has been one of the things that has made this team what it is. And I think that's something that Troy Weaver is going to do. So I'm excited about that, but I'm not suggesting that we bring in, like, a defensive specialist who can't shoot the ball.

Of course not. To be our shooting guard. Yeah, but I mean, I'm talking like, sure, you have that defense and that's necessary too, but that's not going to, that doesn't alleviate just the inherent, basically the inherent necessities on offense you're going to have, in terms of the talent you need, in terms of the creators you need, as you get deep into the playoffs. Right.

Yeah, I was looking at Cam Thomas over the weekend. He's a guy who's projected to go into the late second round, or not the late second, a late first round. And his big thing is that he is a very, very dynamic score, but that is it. Like, he can't play defense, he can't pass the ball well. but he can put the ball in the hoop, but that's just not enough.

I think with the identity of this team, you shouldn't look to make him the solution, like a player like that the solution. You want a guy who's still a little bit more well-rounded, even if it's maybe less in the way of offensive versatility, just because I feel like you have so much of that already in Cade and Grant. So it's definitely a balancing act,

and it's, again, it's a wish list in terms of, like, yeah, how do you get this guy in your team anyway? Like a great offensive player, a great defensive player who isn't going to hinder. Yeah, exactly. So it's definitely, it's just a question that I think has to be answered. And it's a difficult question to answer. But I think it's going to be the next interesting talking point that the Pistons have to address if they want to maximize Cade.

Well, if they want to go anywhere, I mean, I think no matter who is going to come on this team, if you really want to be able to succeed in the playoffs under normal circumstances, I mean, normal circumstances, I'm saying, like, yeah, you can grab a team that's that's going to be able to be successful in the playoffs without these if they get super lucky with the injuries to the opposition. But, I mean, the Pistons have time, fortunately. You've got a lot of cap space coming up next summer. I mean, what you're going to be able to do with it is really anybody's guess. And it's going to be a little while until they really have to pay anybody, you know, after this offseason, you know, unless Josh Jackson just says this, you know, supernova season, which I think is highly unlikely.

So, yeah, there's time to, to address that question. And who knows, maybe somebody you find on the draft or somebody already on the team ends up being that number three guy you need. Do either you guys think that that guy is currently on the team? We draft Bones Highland and he's our number three guy. I genuinely believe this, dude. All right, anyway, anyway, another. Yeah, we're going to cover second round picks and probably in our next episode.

but yeah we've got i mean i'm talking currently on the team do you think anybody currently on the team has the ceiling to be that to be that sort of number two b guy i'm going to see your answer it's uh it's if gosh why is his name escaping me now hamadu if hamadu can put a three ball together like a very very big jump him maybe but other than that i don't think a lot of these guys have the athletic ceiling or the shot making ability or the IQ when it comes to josh jackson yeah well even a if you had the shopmaking ability, I still think that's like your number four guy. Yeah. Do I have to go on another Sadiq Bay rant?

Are we good this week? I mean, that is entirely up to you. No, I just, I think, I think, no, no, no, no, you know what? Well, I'll save it. I'll definitely do like preseason reviews of these, of the guys who like perform well in the team. So I'm sure you will have plenty of time to. you know, take your notes, make your case, and we'll tell you why you're wrong. Yeah, I love that.

I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. Fair enough. All right. Anything you guys want to bring up before we call quits on this episode? Tommy, you got anything? No, I think I'm good, man. I'm excited.

I'm excited for us to just call the right name on draft night and look to the future. Yeah, I would say the same. I'm very excited for the pre-draft process to be over and the post-draft process. to begin. Oh, all right. That'll be up for today's episode. As always, thank you all for listening. We'll catch you in the next episode.