Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 54: Live draft banter (featuring guest host Matt Schoch)

Episode Date: August 1, 2021

This episode, featuring guest host Matt Schoch (formerly of Locked-on Pistons), was recorded throughout the late-first and second rounds of the draft and meanders through various topics including the team's draftees and the Mason Plumlee trade.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to driving to the basket. I am Mike. I am here with Dante and our special guest, Matt Shook, formerly of Lockdown Pistons, and now with PlayMishigan.com. Matt, thanks so much for joining us again. Yeah, great to be back. Thanks for having me. This is end of the first round as we record. So a lot going on, and we'll see if we can steer the ship here. So before we get rolling, what's first to your word from our sponsors? You've heard us talk about Draft Kings, the leader in daily fantasy sports, and now a payday can come every day by entering their contests with huge cash prizes up for grabs. Making a lineup on Draft Kings adds excitement to every night, and it's extremely simple to do. Just draft your lineup, feel the sweat, and make every moment mean more with a Draft King's lineup on the line.

Draft Kings has paid out over $7 billion to users all across sports. Draft Kings is the leader in Daily Fantasy Sports, so there's absolutely no business. better place to get in on all of the action. Now that you know how to play, download the Draft Kings app now and sign up using code TbPN. New users will get a free entry with their first deposit. That's code TbPN to get a free entry with your first deposit, only at Draftkings. Minimum $5 deposit required. Eligibility restrictions apply. See draftkings.com for details. So of course the big news is the Pistons, of course, have drafted Kate Cunningham. It was a protracted process of getting to that point, which caused untold anxiety to Pistons fandom.

But, you know, in the end, everybody got what they wanted? So, yeah, what are you guys' thoughts? Any, you know, thoughts, if any, beyond excitement, I'm sure. Well, to be fair, Mike, I didn't get what I wanted because I wanted to trade the number one pick for Eric Gordon. number 24 and that didn't happen. So some of the prospects at that 24. I was just going to say, we're just like two and a half hours after the draft has started. We're just reaching that area now.

So it would have given us something to look forward to. And yeah, I'm disappointed. I don't know. Yeah, sure. It was a strange lead up into the draft like you mentioned, Mike, about everyone, a lot of anxiety. I guess that comes with getting the number one pick when you're the fan base. But everyone was so defensive about every single rumor and every single possibility. of Jalen Green being picked or something like that.

And I think as we sit here, they drafted Cade Cunningham. It was the right decision to make. But at the same time, you want Troy Weaver to be making those phone calls. You want Troy Weaver to be accepting those phone calls to be working out Jalen Green to fly across the country and take a look at him. It would have been nice to get some eyes on Evan Moldly. I know they're very familiar with him as well. But if they could have seen a trade and liked one of those guys almost as much or maybe even more than Cade Cunningham for whatever reason. You got to trust in your general managers, but like I said, I agree with the

pick. I think it was a great night to be a Pistons fan and a Pistons podcaster, but it was just a weird few weeks leading up to it. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I didn't, I personally didn't expect the number one pick to come with this much anxiety and uncertainty, but I don't think it has anything to do with Detroit in particular. I think that's just kind of the, you know, the consequence of having such a high profile pick associated with such a high profile player. But yeah, I, completely agree, Matt. You definitely want to do your due diligence. And then as we've stated before, Weaver and the rest of the front office and the coaches and the entire organization should be doing everything they can to turn over every stone and make sure they're making the right pick. But

this is sort of like what Brad Holmes, the new GM of the Lions does. And weavers kind of echoed this sentiment. We have a process. And what you need to do is trust your process and in turn sort of trust what that process yields. And I've been confident throughout, you know, this entire, ever since the lottery, that the process will yield the answer that Kate Cunningham is the best player in the draft. So I feel like Weaver came to the correct decision. I think the vast, vast majority of Pistons fans did as well. And now we're just going to see what else he does on draft night. Yeah. So I completely agree, Matt, with what you said. It made perfect operational sense for Troy Weaver to do what he did, even if it was pretty unprecedented for the

consensus number one overall pick was very highly regarded, even if it was it was completely unprecedented for the process to take so long and for, you know, the decision to be made so late. It was fine. And the only real downside was that a lot of, you know, I got agitated. I was like, you know, it was this, it was this process like from, I'm sure a lot of other fans did is not an actual downside. And as much as, you know, as much as I would like to think that it would be wonderful if Troy Weaver would consider my feelings and tell me everything that he's going to do. I really don't think that's reasonable. So, so, yeah, it made sense. It was just odd to have so little certainty going forward. And it made the five weeks since the lottery

seemed very long. I never thought there would be so much, yeah, so much stress associated of getting a number and overall pick. So, but, you know, he's here and, you know, you hope, you know, you cross your fingers and hope that this is, this is a new era of basketball in Detroit. I've heard people trying to, you know, I know there's this kind of movement to just determine, you know, you had the bad boys and the going to work pistons, you know, what do you call these pistons, the back to work pistons, the dumb with mediocrity pistons. I like the done with mediocrity pistons. I like the done with mediocrity pisses. It really rolls off the tongue.

Absolutely. Got a nice ring to it, huh? It does. And you know what? Speaking of Cade Cunningham, while we're on the topic, we might be for a while. How about that post-draft interview with the buffs? That was perfect. Perfect.

That was so cool, man. It was perfect. He really knows what he's doing. He's, you know, he wanted to be the first pick. Detroit happened to be the team. He said all the right things in the weeks leading up to it and the time leading up to it as well. Detroit News story. quotes him as saying, I'm going to embody the swag that people from Detroit walk with,

the people from Michigan, they have an underdog, go get what you want, feel to them. And I like that. I'll tell you as someone who moved around the country, though, Detroit is not the only place that thinks they are a bunch of hardworking people. So let's just throw that out there. But it's great to, it's great to hear that stuff. We do love that stuff as fans. And it's important for him to kind of, because he's the face of the organization now.

There's no doubt about that. So he becomes that guy. And there's a lot of responsibility that comes with that and saying and doing the right things is all a part of that, too. Yeah, I completely agree. It was nice to see him really show a lot of excitement at the prospect of going number one. I mean, you got to think it's probably pretty likely that if someone of the team had had the first overall pick, he would have been doing the same. But it's maybe not just out of a desire to go number one, but also just about a desire to really embrace the city in which he's going to play.

Jalen Green, of course, came out. out and said, you know, I want to live in Detroit. It's like, well, Jay, when you want to go number one, and you're probably going to live in Farmington Hills if you do. So, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it was, it was a special moment. And, you know, it felt to me a little bit surreal to see it, to watch the Pistons pick, you know, pick number one. And I don't really, I've never really cared about media attention, about the media marginalized in Detroit. But it was, it was kind of cool to see so much attention on it. Yeah, absolutely. But of course, as you mentioned that, we got to put our chip on our shoulder and say, did they have to have all this Russell Westbrook rumors going on? And then the

trade kind of finalized while it was Detroit's night. So, yeah, of course, we're a little upset about that, but no, I'm just kidding. But it's a great night for the Pistons organization. Obviously, Cade, maybe take a little bit of a backseat to the Mason Plumley trade, which was probably the biggest news of the night. I'm just kidding. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it's just Pistons fans. I live right down the street from Little Cesarine. Actually didn't end up going to the draft party tonight. But it looked like a full house from some of the footage and video that I saw. And of course, everyone's excited and fired up as they should be.

I don't know. I mean, I know that this was a great draft for the top three. And what I would have thought was the top four. We'll get into a little bit of that later. But I thought that like five through 10 was quite a big drop off. And I mean, I like a lot of the things that Franz Wagner does as a player, but for him to be the eighth pick of the draft is pretty underwhelming. So for the Pistons to, A, lose enough games where they're in position to possibly hit the lottery

and to hit the lottery. It's just very fortunate for this organization and a good stroke of luck and a good stroke of planning to go on top of that. So kudos to the Pistons and kudos to the ping pong balls. Yeah, I don't think, I think you came out of the show last before the lottery or was it afterward? I'm not certain. It was after. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were talking Kate, I believe. Yeah. I don't, I don't know

if I ever asked you what's the experience of watching the draft lottery was for you. Yeah. So I was coming home from the workout and I was walking. I lived right up upstairs of a bar. So I watched it. I ducked in because I knew that they were in the top four there. So ducked into the bar, watched it with some other Pistons fans that I just ran into. too because they were all fired up too. And it was that first feeling of excitement that a Detroit sports fan hasn't had in so long because these pro teams have just been garbage for a while now, a long while. So, yeah, I mean, it just kind of felt like the tide was turning.

At that point, you were getting the Spencer Torkelson every night, getting some AA home runs or maybe he was in West Michigan still back then. Good fortunes here. You know, of course, Turnbull with the no-hitter earlier this year and the wings with some draft picks that you believe in Steve, I guess. So it's finally feeling like you're a year, two, three years away from maybe all three of these teams. And then, of course, the Lions are the Lions, but three of these teams that maybe be moving in the right direction and to be playing relevant sports games in the spring, which is what we're used to. Yeah, absolutely.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, throughout my really entire childhood, the Red Wings were a fixture as a contender. And, you know, even to a degree into the, to the, 2010's, well, it'll be 2013 at least. You know, there was that, it was that great series against Anaheim. And then the Pistons had the Blackhawks, right, but they wanted them. And, yeah, we all know how that ended. And it's something for which I'll never forget, forget Brendan Smith.

But, you know, he's just the object of my, my hostility with respect. And so it was a lot of it came wrong. Oh, well, yeah, well, this is just, I mean, I was, I used to, hockey used to be in my sport and I was a huge fan of the Red Wings for about 10 years until I was alienated by what I perceived as Ken Holland's horrible mismanagement of the team after the lockout just taking the safe path over and over and over and over again you know and free agency we're going to got to keep that streak going yeah yeah exactly yeah we're just we're just going to sign a washed up veteran and just run it back and hope we make the playoffs and it um yeah so you know

I felt very alienated by that. And so I moved on, you know, and so I started watching the Pistons more during the Van Gundy era. You know, much better, much, much better managed team, huh? And you were hooked. You were hooked. Absolutely. And, you know, Holland, of course, has gone on to be exactly the same in Edmonton. I mean, a guy who, you know, he did a great job when he had, you know, he could spend all the money in the world, but no salary cap and had a European scouting infrastructure that was vastly better than the rest of the league.

But after that, it kind of went really downhill. Yeah. But back to basketball, it's definitely the draft was interesting. And I feel a little bit bad for the people who bet on anything after the top three, you know, except for, you know, what you mentioned, we were talking before, the Australians who probably made a great deal of money by betting on Josh Giddy. Yeah. I'll say this about my bet that was stung quite a bit because I made a couple of odd bets at the top

just in case this happened or this happened. But then I said, okay, let me put some money down. on some chalk, one, two, three, four, an order just in case, you know, you lose out on some of these weird ones. So, okay, we'll go Cade 1, green 2, Mowbly 3, Suggs 4, because there's no way that that that won't be the number 4 pick, right? I mean, there's, we know that Suggs is the fourth pick. That's, that's kind of the one we all know. So the first three happened, as, as you would expect. And then number 4 is, I'm already counting my money at that point. And then, of course, Toronto kind of makes the surprise pick of the night at number 4.

Yeah, I don't get it. And we were discussing this prior to recording, but I just personally felt, and I'm sure you guys feel similarly, Jalen Suggs is just so far in a way, I feel a more skilled player than Scotty Barnes is. And I think there was such a severe drop-off after that top four that I can't really wrap my head around why the Raptors would do that. But it's nice to be the team in the driver's seat of the draft, pick number one and kind of kick your feedback and relax and watch the rest of the chaos kind of unfold. And the draft continues to be wild. I don't know if you guys are refreshing Twitter, but I know lots of Pistons fans probably won't like to see this,

but Bones Highland just came off the board at 26 to Denver. So there's one of those second round options crossed off. But I mean, I guess it remains to be seen what the Pistons are going to do with the rest of the evening. I remain hesitant to say they'll be able to jump back into the first. But it's like I said, seeing stuff like that Scotty Barnes thing is just like, makes you feel so fortunate that we were able to kind of just grab that slam dunk pick and be done with it.

Yeah, it's it's definitely been interesting. It's just things have gone so unexpectedly. And Suggs, for me, absolutely, a surprise. And, you know, I've learned not to sell short, Messiah, Viziery, but of course, anybody who makes mistakes. So, yeah, just Josh Giddy at number six was really the shocker for me. Franz Wagner at number eight, also, you know, definitely not an upside pick. I don't have, I've never had much faith in Orlando's front office,

even the current front office. But I think the, aside from the Pistons, I'd say the winners in the lottery were definitely the Warriors. I mean, Comingo was kind of an odd pick just because he's so raw. And I don't think he can really contribute much offensively next year. I'm not huge on Cumminga just because I think his basketball IQ is pretty questionable. And his, you know, he's, you know, who knows where he'll go offensively. And also there's some questions about, you know, motor on defense particularly.

but that's a good upside pick and Moses Moody at 14 is just fantastic for them. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that Orlando did well with their two picks and I think that Golden State did well with their two picks. Wagner is going to be a guy who can help. I think Jalen Suggs is hitting out of the park with number five there. And Cominga, yeah, it could be a bust.

Like it could be a complete zero for you. But he's got that body, he's got that potential there that down the road could be something or maybe it could be a trade asset in the first year. or so. But as I reflect on some of this, I'm just, again, I'm just so, you know, obviously there's a big drop off between probably three to four, if I consider Suggs number four on my board, then another drop off after that. But I'm talking like, you know, Barnes, the Barnes types at number five on my board and not really all that much difference going down all the way to like the, you know,

Duarte, Moody, Kisper, 13, 14, 15 is, you wouldn't feel that much worse about a Moses Moody, than you would about Scotty Barnes. And that's the difference between four and 13. So again, just to echo how important it was for the Pistons to move up in that lottery, get one of those top three spots. And then, yeah, I mean, I'm looking at names coming off here as we record. Josh Christopher late in the first round of Garuba out of Isaiah Jackson from Oakland County, getting out of Kentucky to ultimately, I guess I don't even remember who we ended up on now.

But Keon Johnson is another one. Jalen Johnson was, you know, had a rough season at Duke, obviously. But another gal with potential that was talked about is a top seven or eight pick early in his freshman season. So a lot of talent still out there. And the Pistons, you know, 10 or so picks away, 12 or so picks away from the first of three second round picks. Now, important to keep in mind that these last two second round picks in the 50s,

it's basically inviting a guy to training camp and who knows what's going to happen there. Motor City Cruise, I guess, will be the. the future of a lot of those guys, you know, in the 50s, you're talking about almost not really a pick at that point. But at least at 42, it'll be interesting to see what Troy Weaver does. Yeah. I think we can, why don't we segue onto the Plumlee trade? It must on to you have. Sure. Yeah. You know, what I was going to say was a segue into the Plumlee trade. So it's pretty timely that you would say that. And it's because, you know, all this talk about these late, these picks late in the 50s. And it's like, well, could have had 37, but it seems Weaver was highly

motivated to get off of Plumley's money and to get off of his money tonight. So I guess I'm curious what you guys think. I know Mike and I've been talking quite a bit about it during the night. I have a theory I haven't shared with you, which is. I'd like you to share it with me. Yeah, which is Mason Plumlee, you know, was on, it was unwilling to hand the keys to the offense off to Kate Cunningham. So, you know.

Who can, boy. You know, yeah, he, he's playing for his next contract already. And he's just not willing to share this. spotlight like that. So when you can reverse Dunkett like Plumley again, you kidding me? Reverse everything. No, I just, I was curious. At first when I saw it, I was like, oh, man, did we move up?

And then as I read the rest of the tweet, I was like, oh, 20 spots back. Okay. And then my initial sort of thinking was, okay, we're going to use this cab space to acquire a bad contract tonight. I don't know, some team that wants to sign an immediate impact player in free agency, this coming year and then jump back into the first and grab an impact player. But I, you know, the picture flying off the board here and I'm not entirely convinced we'll pick in the first round again at all. So I don't know what you guys think that trade was all about,

but I'm sort of confused. And if things stay the way they are and we don't move back up, I maybe dare to say I'm disappointed in the trade because I think Plumley is a pretty solid backup center. And if you wanted to hand the keys to the five position to Stewart, that's more than okay. I much prefer watching Stewart than I do Plumley, but I was cool with Plumley on this team and if he's going to be moved, I'd like it for it to be a reason, right?

Yeah, I totally agree. I don't see that there's much reason to move them unless there is something coming up that we don't know about, but then again, it's $8 million per season. It's not going to be that much money where you can go get some big time free agent or something like that. And then you've got to find a backup center and there's going to be

some money there. So it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me right now. But again, you've got to look at the off season as a whole, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I'm free agency is coming up pretty soon. I would imagine that the Pistons will stick with the plan of just going with development. So you probably just sign a decent backup center and go from there, like for a minimum deal.

It was just, I completely agree with what both of you have said about, you know, you think that something is coming soon. Yeah. It's possible that weaver just, I don't think this is likely, but that weaver's like, okay, well, this is an opportunity to dump Plumley and all it's going to cost is us moving back 20 spots in the second round. But I don't think it's likely that, you know, here's a golden opportunity. Yeah, I don't think that's, yeah, I don't think that's that. And so.

No, it's odd. And I'll tell you it's not to trade with Brooklyn because Brooklyn just picked Cam Thomas at 27. Yeah, I think it's interesting. And maybe it has something to do with roster spots too, right? Like maybe a guy you pick at 37 is a guy. that you're probably going to want to bring in and give an NBA contract to, as opposed to someone in the 50s where you feel like you might stash him over in Europe or maybe it's a strictly G-League type of player. So maybe this is good news for like a guy like Saban Lee, who his roster spot was under question, his contract situation is under question next year. So not that obviously the center position has anything to do with Saban Lee, but when you're looking at pure roster spots, maybe that has something to do with it there.

So a lot of different unanswered questions there. But I think that it was an opportunity to get rid of Mason Plumley. I mean, famously on Locked on Pistons, I was ripped that move from the very beginning back when it was cool to make fun of Troy Weaver's moves back a little bit. Remember that? It was still, you know, three years for $25 million. It was the first move announced by any reporters right when free agency started. So it was like a huge question mark. Of course, we can joke now about how many centers.

the Pistons had for a couple days there. And now we're sitting here with Isaiah Stewart as pretty much the only guy on this team. Although I guess Okaford is guaranteed for next year too, which is another head scratcher of them last off season two. But again, the players, the drafting and the selection of Jeremy Grant and free agency, obviously the good, far outweighs the bad from Troy Weaver last off season. But Mason Plumley never really made a lot of sense to me. and the fact that you're able to get off of them without giving up anything very meaningful.

Of course, you'd rather have 37 and 57's not going to get you anything. This is, again, a total lottery ticket that's going to be a bust. But all things considered, nice to get off of $16 million for the next couple of years. But like Dante said, it would have made a lot of sense to keep around as a backup center too. So I don't quite know. Yeah, it was also, it's a good culture to do for what that's worth. It's actually, it's actually, you know, if they're trading it, because probably had a trade kicker, so it's closer to, it's closer to $18 million,

but that wouldn't have mattered if business hadn't traded him. So, yeah, I agree. Back when they, back when that signing was announced, my heart just, you know, dropped. I'm like, oh, goodness. Oh, me. We got another lemon in the front office. But, yeah, it was, it's just the time. The timing is a little bit odd if this is not going to be used at the draft.

So, you know, well, we'll know, the first round here is about, Well, we might. There's a good chance we'll know before this recording is over. Oh, certainly, certainly not in the first round. But, you know, I would say it's extremely unlikely unless we'll see. I mean, we'll see in, we'll see in about five minutes. I'm refreshing Twitter like a madman and I'll be the first one to jump in and let you guys know. But another thing, too, I trust me, we got on here and we ripped the Plumley signing immediately after it happened. So you're not alone in that, Matt. But I have trouble believing that Plumley's value was still negative after the decent year. Oh, I disagree. I strongly.

I disagree. Yeah. See, what? I didn't like him as a contract. I was surprised it was that negative. Yeah. That's a better way to say it, Matt.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, Mike? I think that Plumley is a very capable starting center for a team that does not want to win. His skills. So here's, here's what Plumley is. All right. So he's really a very mediocre offensive player.

Can't space the floor. I guess he's a fairly good pick and roll center. And he's a decent finisher around the Nets. but he's very limited on what he can do. He can pass, and that's helpful for a team that has very few creation options, and that was the Pistons this season, but any better team is going to have a lot more creation options. He's a mediocre defender.

He's a switch liability. He's a kind of slightly below-average rim protector. In the playoffs, I'm not sure he's going to be playable, because any offense is just going to get a quick player switched on to him, and they're going to burn him in isolation. And, you know, that's $9 million. if you're like presumably you'll start for the hornets but you know nine million dollars for the average team for backup center would have been a steep price so yeah I don't it would have surprised

me if he had any positive value at all just just based on the above I guess he had a little bit more to the hornets and so you know and so it was easier to trade him yeah not to rehash but I just felt like the the signing to me it was less about the value of the contract and more and I didn't like the value of the contract mostly because of the years, but it was also just because that was what they decided to do with cap space, which never really made any sense to me. But it kind of makes sense. He seems like a Charlotte Center in the in the Cody Zeller Frank Kaminsky mold there. So maybe the big white center from, you know, storied college programs.

Maybe that has something that there for George. Yeah. Like, I mean, ultimately at this point, like the cost of the Plumlee signing is. is Dwayne Dedman's dead cap and trading down 20 picks in the second round. I thought it was interesting that the pick, and not to, we'll go old bit central here, because the pick that they acquired in the Bruce Brown trade was 37, and that was the pick that they had to give away to get rid of Mason Plumley. So my two old bit trades and moves that I hated from Weaver last year was Bruce and Mason Plumley,

and of course they end up getting married to each other in this deal. It's perfect symmetry. I kind of feel like, and I haven't been doing the podcast since I believe at the end of March, but it kind of felt like my reign officially ended tonight when Mason Plumley and Bruce Brown's chapters as a Pistons both closed, both together. I almost cried a little bit, to be honest, a little bit of symmetry there for me. Sort of like when Captain America fought himself an end game. Sort of, sort of.

Pretty similar. It's the passing of the torch and that's it. But no, I mean, I honestly. It's not like that. It's exactly that. Exactly that. I could do this all day. It's Bruce and Plumley just looking at each other. That was, no, for sure. But I think, honestly, Matt, and I do believe this, I think Weaver made these moves only to piss you off. That's what I think. Yeah. What could I do? One more time. Just needle this guy. One more time. It's not enough to be dedicated three years plus of your life to giving us good content. He just needs to just, you know, color your book one last time.

I mean, you've got to establish dominance. It's very important step of being a general manager. So, yeah. Always empty the clip. Always empty the clip. Yeah, absolutely. Into somebody, if necessary. Yes, I'll take it. Yeah. So, yeah, how are you feeling?

I mean, it's a long time down the road and a lot of things have happened. How are you feeling now about Bruce, you know, about Bruce Brown being traded long afterward in retrospect? Oh, I just have a soft spot in my heart for Bruce Brown. I know the criticisms that a lot of folks have about his offensive game and the jumpers probably never going to come. And I get all that. but it was just a guy who made watching this team and a little bit more enjoyable during his time with the Pistons. And a guy that gave a crap when a lot of the players on the team weren't giving a crap night in and night out. So to me, it was a little bit more of like a heartstrings kind of thing.

But yeah, I do believe that he had value as a player. And I think that when you're, and of course, being on Brooklyn is a bit of a special situation because you have no responsibility on shot creation. and you can be this this this five man weirdly on the Brooklyn Nets. But he's a guy who showed he's got value in the NBA on a really reasonable contract. I'm seeing Bobby Marks, you know, he's restricted. So they gave him the qualifying offer, the Nets. But Bobby Marks is talking about teams possibly giving him $10 million a year this, offseason.

So if some team thinks he's worth $10 million, I think on a $3 million plus bird rights deal last offseason, I think that that should have been worth. more than not only giving him away for 37, but paying his salary because of the Musa kid that comes over and you eat that cap space as well. So it was an F-minus in my book. I don't think Musa actually was non-guaranteed. So he was just waived prior to the season. No, I think that they ate that contract. I disagree. I thought that was a first-round pick. I'm not sure. No, no, Musa was a second round pick. No, he was a first round pick. He was? I think he was a first round pick.

Yeah, okay, you might be right. I'll have to look it up. Yeah, I mean, we'll double check. And just by the way, Jaden Springer off the board to the 76 or is at 28. You want to know something funny about Bruce Brown. So if the, let's say the, this comes from Bobby Marks. So let's say they pay them $10 million a year, just $10 million in this coming year. It will cost them close to $50 million because they'll be paying $36 million in luxury tax. Is Bruce Brown worth that to you, you know? To me? Yes. No, not, not for you. I'm just speaking, I'm just speaking hypothetical.

You know, I'm just, this is like a rhetorical question for like the basketball, you know, for the Nets, for example. But, yeah, it was, Bruce, Bruce was fun in the sense that he was just clearly like a super hardworking guy who, if he genuinely thought that it would be best for the team, would take zero shots a game. And there aren't many players who were that selfless. For sure. But, like, if there would, it would just be. you know, he would have no role on this team, you know, going forward. The way that Weaver assembled the roster, it was also reported that his training camp, the mini training camp they had in the summer, he just, he didn't do a very, he didn't look good.

And really, it was, on the average NBA team, I would, I would wager on 29 teams. You know, if he can't shoot, he's a liability, his spacing liability. We can't really do anything as far as creating offense either. And it's just only on the nets that he could work in this way. And also under an innovative coach, I mean, Steve, Nash, I don't know how many of the guys with the thoughts he used Bruce Brown that way. Yeah, I don't know. I don't quite buy the workout thing.

I mean, we've all had bad weeks, and I mean, it didn't translate to his season. He obviously made strides in year three, so I don't quite know what one bad week does for, you know, and now if he comes in and, you know, throws his jersey at Weaver as he walks off the court or something, sure. But like, you know, showing up a little bit out of shape or whatever it was, I don't quite, I don't quite know what that has to do with long-term decisions and making bad trades and

not getting value for anything. But yeah, to me, it just didn't make sense then. And now as we see what happened with Pick 37, which was a fortunate, you know, result that Toronto had such a bad season that you pick 37 instead of what you would have

thought, maybe something like 47. But yeah, just didn't do anything for me at the time and does less for me now after watching them play. Fair enough. I just don't think that there would have been much space for him. And even just on the roster. I'm not even talking about the roster. I'm talking more about value, I guess.

Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. I was a little surprised at the time of the trade because it's like, you know, if Bruce can shoot then, cool. You know, you've got a very good role player. But it seems like such a long time ago. Yeah.

You know? It's only been about a year since I believe he was traded shortly after Weaver became general manager, which is in June. So maybe it was either in June or July last year. It just seems like far longer ago than that, probably because Seku Dumboya is now the longest tenured member of the team. Which is so wild. At 20 years old. It's so insane.

At 20 years old, the longest tenured member of the team. It just really speaks to the job that Weaver has done, you know? And we can talk about the Plumlee contract and the Bruce Brown trade. But at the end of the day, what a reshaping of the roster. And I meant to ask both of you sort of to pivot away from Bruce and back towards the trade itself. What do you guys think this means for Isaiah Stewart? Well, I'd say he's starting now. We know it's been reported that the Pistons were high on Isaiah Stewart.

And, you know, he certainly proved a lot last year. And he's also an incredibly hard worker. I'm sure I'm confident he'll continue to improve over the summer. It's right now I'm, I was going to say I was thinking about the differences, just the paradigm differences between he and Drummond. But I promised I would never rant about Drummond on the show. ever again. So, but yeah, I think how I foresee is Stewart going forward as a guy you, you know, you can start him at center provided on a good, on a very good team. I think if you have the, the strength at the other positions around him, you know, he's kind of a guy moving forward.

You can pay like $12 million a year to be your starting center and do a pretty good job. And he'll, he'll gladly do whatever is, you know, whatever is required of him. So he, uh, he saw some starting minutes this last year. He put up good, you know, he did very well, of course, you know, they were, he'd started almost exclusively against terrible teams. But yeah, so I'd say he's the presumptive starter going into next season. I can't see anything else being the case. Yeah, it's interesting because we don't know a lot about the, the free agency period,

or maybe some trades that open up with a little bit of the wiggle room with the Plumley trade there too. So you would think that the center room, like if he'd borrow a football term wouldn't be just Isaiah Stewart and Joliel Okafoa running the next season and you'd probably think that since you got the young center in Stewart that it might be more of a veteran type of player, a Mason Plumley type, I guess, to put it to put it in one term.

Maybe Mason Blumley. Maybe Mason Plumley, yeah. I mean, there's there'll, there may be some other Plumley. I don't know. But you got to believe there's someone else coming in and I would hope it's someone who, and again, And I like Isaiah Stewart just as much as anyone. I think Mike hits it on the head as far as a guy that can be a starting center in this league,

as long as you're not relying on him for too much. And there's obviously a guy that embodies the culture and the fans love him for good reason and all that good stuff too. But yeah, you'd think that someone else comes in his center. Now whether Stewart is the starter and the other backup center is getting some real minutes or vice versa, I've never really gotten too worked up about that stuff. there's no world where Isaiah Stewart's not getting a chance to play real minutes this year. I think the Pistons have proven that. Duane Casey has put those guys out there, especially at the end of a loss season.

I think they're going to go in the next season, as they should, trying to win ball games, but still giving all their young players good minutes. And I think it's a great situation to be in for a team that's trying to build something and build something together. And Isaiah Stewart should be a part of that next year and beyond. I'm just trying to think, you know, aside from Blake Griffin and his all-NBA season, the only full season he played for the Pistons, who was the last player who was as well-loved by Isaiah Stewart, but, you know, amongst the fandom. I think you've got to think back a long way.

Tony Snow. Oh, goodness. How could I forget Tony Snow? Mr. Charisma. The invisible man. I honestly can't think of anyone as beloved as Stuart. like, Stewart was like university, universally beloved almost immediately. Yeah.

I mean, there wasn't any, has there been any randoms since the, obviously the going to work best five alive? But like, has there been like random guys that, I mean, there was a little bit of Will Bynum buzz, I know. Oh, yeah, Bynumite. Bynumite. Bynumite. People were fired up about him for a little while. Fortunately for me, I was like gone for a decade during a lot of the lost decades. So that worked out pretty well for me.

But, yeah, I can't certainly can't recall any guys during. the Van Gundy era that were that beloved. Like maybe Brandon Jennings for about six weeks. Yeah, yeah. They led Brandon Jennings back in the day for a very short amount of time. Yeah, for a very short time. I mean, Brandon Jennings, I mean, his legacy amongst Pistons fans, which, you know, good for him. Or just not, I'm not Pistons fans.

It's in Pistons history. With those six weeks he played after Josh Smith was waived. And that was such an exciting time. You know, and he really, I really liked Brandon for that. He really grew from this immature chucker into a weeder. overnight. That was such a fun time. And man, was, uh, that Achilles tear, just a horrible moment. And it really changed the trajectory of the franchise, too. You're not going to have Richard Jackson. Yeah. It was an odd, odd thing because I was living in the Virgin Islands and we didn't,

obviously didn't, I didn't buy league pass back then. Why would you if you could watch the Pistons back then? So it was a one of that game was like a random national television game. I don't know if it was NBA TV or what, but, yeah, I was excited to watch the game. I think it was against Washington. No, it was against Stuyah Milwaukee. Oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. And so, yeah, just randomly watch that one game, and that's when he blows his Achilles out, unbelievable. Man, that was bad.

Yeah, all it was is he just, you know, he was going to guard the baseline for an inbound, and he stepped in the other direction, and that was that for his career, more or less. Yeah, see, that's, you know, this is, of course, like, this is very random, but, like, one of my reservations about Jalen Green was like, sure, the guy's super bouncy.

he almost feels like an Achilles tear waiting to happen. Like when you look at the way he bounds without barely even bending his knees, it's like my concerns about, about Green and Mobley, like a lot of them stemmed from, Mobley in particular, stemmed from like fears of injuries. Jaylen Green,

I would have been glad to see the business taken number two, but it just brought, it just brought back memories from me of like, you know, Brandon Jennings was nowhere near at that athletic, but he was very quick and very agile. And, and that injury,

you know, that wasn't the case. anymore and that was the end of his career. To be fair, you could, you could cite those injury concerns for a lot of above the rim players, especially players who are extremely explosive. But on the flip side, you get someone, you know, pretty durable. And dare I say, a pretty good player in Russell Westbrook, right,

is someone who has that elite, elite freakish athleticism and still manage to have like a durable and successful career. I agree, but guys like Jalen Green is very thin. Right. No, and that is a concern. That is a concern for sure. I agree with you. And sort of to kind of extrapolate off that and related to Cade,

Cade has a game that is going to age extremely well, like extremely well. And obviously knock on wood. There's no, there's no, there's wood. I'm knocking on it right now. I don't foresee, you know, anything outside of like a freak injury happening to Cade. He's certainly not someone who's jumping to the rafters every night and just exploding his knees. You know what I mean?

And as he ages, I could see his game continuing to be effective. And so there's another sort of, you know, feather in his cap, I guess, in that I'm not sure that Jaylen Green's game would like age as gracefully. And then Evan Mobley, I mean, it's not like he's going to get less tall, but he's an explosive player as well. And so I just, out of the big three, Cade, in my opinion, has by far the likeliest chance to be a successful player for the longest time. Yeah, I would say, just to note the first round just concluded. So, yeah, it won't actually be too. The second round is a great deal quicker.

So it won't really be too long at this point. Hopefully we'll see something happen here. But, yeah. I have my doubts. Yeah, so guys in the 50s also. Like, it's worth thinking about Sabin Lee. Like Frank Jackson and Hamidu Dielo got qualified by the Pistin. Sabin Lee did not.

I strongly doubt they're giving up on him after one season, especially with how highly Troy Weaver spoke about him, like included him in the core four, maybe it was just because it would be awkward to not do so. But sorry, Sabin, it's the core three and you. But, you know, the core three plus one, kind of. Plus one. Yeah, so.

I don't know. I felt like they genuinely valued him. No, they did. Yeah. So I think it's a little weird that there's no qualifying offer. And I'm pretty confident about my understanding of two-way contracts. So my guess is that they're just going to upgrade him to a standard NBA contract, which you can do with two-way players. And, yeah, so Frank Jackson will either be with the Pistons on the full-time roster or will be signed by another team.

I'm pretty confident in that. So you'll have those two-way contract slots open. And if you take two guys in the 50s and one of them isn't a draft and stash, and those are probably the guys, at least one of them going on to those contracts. Yeah, and I wonder what's Servetus? Does he, I mean, is he, I don't know, I haven't studied the cap sheet. Is he guaranteed for another year or does he get a chance to maybe be a two-way guy? No, no, he's already on a standard NBA contract.

You can't, you can't downgrade somebody to a, to an, I guess, I think that this, was the only guaranteed year on his deal. I mean, I can certainly look that up fairly quickly. But yeah, Servetus, I think, will remain on the roster just because, you know, if they wave him, then Arntelam's son makes a lot less money. That's true. Yeah, that is true. I don't know how deep you guys got, but as we pivot into the second round here,

obviously a couple of local names out there, former Pistons blogger. is out there. Another, James Edwards mentioned that the new Pistons rumored assistant GM, he was an agent for one of these foreign guys that might be a

drafting stash out of Belgium as well. You got not one but two Michigan Wolverines. Of course, Aaron Henry from Michigan. A lot of time. Anyone that you guys particularly like here, thinking that maybe the top five guys on the next available are probably going to be

gone by the time 42 coming around. Yeah, I really like Sharif Cooper, but I doubt. Oh, I... I think that Sharif, well, here's what you have in Sharif Cooper. He's a guy who's got an excellent handle. He's good off the dribble passer, a bad shooter, and an absolute catastrophe on defense. Like, not only because he's tiny,

but because he just has no defensive acumen to speak of whatsoever. I don't have high hopes for Sharif Cooper. But interesting pick just now from the Wizards to, to start the second round is Isaiah Todd, the former Michigan commit. Five-star player went to the G-League instead up and down, but it had some moments for the Ignite there, too. I think a game-winning shot in there as well. So, I mean, those kind of picks some, you know, some sexy upside on some of those guys. And, of course, you had, you know, BJ Boston, who was a five-star guy coming into Kentucky. you know, some other guys that college basketball fans know all over the place too.

So, yeah, a lot of guys out there. Yeah. And a little. I was laughing. Just real quick. I was laughing because Isaiah Todd has been the butt of a certain number of jokes because he refused to work out for any team that was not in the lottery. I like it.

I didn't work out for any teams that were in the lottery either. No, neither did I. That's true. I did mention the Pistons bloggers. if you don't have any listeners who aren't familiar, but Jason Preston out of Ohio, grew up in Florida, and his mom was from Jamaica,

and for some reason must have been going to work era fan, huge Pistons fan. So he stuck with that. And after kind of a middling high school basketball career, that when reading about it sounded a lot like my high school basketball career, he looked like he was going to hang it up and go be a journalist and cover the NBA, like the great.

James Edwards and Rod Beards and Amari Sancofas of the world. But had one good AAU tournament after finishing high school, ended up going into a fifth year prep school, ended up having a great season there, went to Ohio and ripped up the Mac for a few years. And now from Pistonpowered.com to the Detroit Pistons, what a story that would be. Yeah, that would be a story.

You know, actually Duncan Robinson, there was a guy he had sent a text message to saying, you know, he played at Michigan, and he was asking the guy, you know, based probably under the belief that he would never make into the NBA, about, I believe it was about advice on how to break into the sports journalism world. And obviously things went a little bit different for Duncan Robinson, who's going to be getting eight figures a year. And it's arguably the best catching guy,

catching and shoot guy in the world at the moment. Yeah. I don't know what quite happened with Jared Butler, but he's still sitting on the board too. I know there was... Health concerns. Yeah, health concerns. But he's another player I'm a big fan of as well.

And I sort of wanted to bring this up to you guys, as we were talking about potentially trading up into the first round. So Memphis, basically, they traded up to the number 30 pick with Utah. And they traded number 40 and two future seconds to move up 10 spots. So, I mean, that's not too steep of a price. If there was someone that weaver really coveted at that spot, maybe he could have made it happen. I don't know.

I'm not sure how many future seconds the pistons really have to offer right now. That's true. But just in generality, I wouldn't say it's anything too extreme to have moved up 10 spots to the very end of the first round. Well, they could have traded, I believe they have numbered. They have Sacramento's first round pick in one of the upcoming drafts. But yeah, I see where you're coming from. And I suppose the possibility they could have traded 30. 742 ends in that future Sacramento pick.

So yeah, that is a little disappointing. That may have been a possibility and it didn't happen. But it depends. Again, we're still yet to see what they're going to do in the second round here. So they may yet surprise us. I don't know. But it's just there's some really good names still out there. Like we said, Sharif Cooper, Jared Butler, J.T. Thor, sitting there.

I.O. Dissou still sitting there. Brandon Boston's another name that interests me. So, I mean, one of these guys that I kind of like is probably going to be there at 47. and then setting myself up to be upset. Not 42. Or 42, rather, sorry. 37 traded and then at 40. 37 traded.

Oh, yeah, ESPN's website is wrong. I'm looking at the rounds here. But yeah, in the best available. A lot of names jumping out. A lot of names. That's all I'm saying. Luca Garza still sitting right there. Yeah, I don't know if he'll be drafted.

Yeah. I'm not, I'm not confident necessarily. Well, Luca Garza will see. But, you know, that's it. At best, that guy is going to be coming off and playing Bobon minutes off the bench. A nice college player. Romeo Weems, as I go further down the list, Romeo Weems from New Haven, Michigan, who came out of DePaul.

He's on deep on the list, too. So maybe another name to watch, a local guy in the 50s that, who knows, could end up on the score. Isaiah Livers, too, Michigan, man. Yep, absolutely. Kalamazooka. Yeah. Yeah, we're just getting to, I believe, pick number 32 right now. Yeah.

So we're getting there. as far as the first round is concerned, is there anything in particular that now that it's done, stood out to you guys as either particularly surprising or something that you felt was like a really good, you know, kind of the draft spot met the fit, met the talent really well.

Yeah, well, I actually think actually, just to mention, it's Troy Weaver apparently in his press conference. I'm just reading this on Twitter. He said that there were no really good trade offers or no good tempting trade offers on the table for Cade.

You know, it presumably at any point. though they did only make the decision this morning. Definitely that they were going to draft him. Yeah, that was reported, but do you guys believe that wholeheartedly? Because I have trouble thinking that Troy didn't know this going in. I really do.

I don't know. Here's the thing is that what kind of trade are you going to make that's going to make sense for both teams? You have a team that's getting Kate Cunningham, the Pistons, where they are, you're going to want to, if it's not the Rockets of the Cavaliers, and they didn't have the assets to provide the pistons with this. I mean, you're going to want, like other,

an excellent player who fits Detroit's timetable somehow, which is going to be difficult to do. Or like from the Rockets or from the Cavaliers, you want, you know, the number two and number three and a very good young player, not a, you know, they couldn't offer that unless you think Colin Sexton or Darius Garland is going to get you there and I don't. So it was just kind of weird. I guess he just was leaving the door open to some sort of completely ludicrous offer being made, which makes, that makes sense, leaving the door open. But it was surprising a little bit to hear the reports that, you know, contrary to basically, but it seems like everybody else in the, you know, in the analysis and then just

amongst executives by, you know, by all of what was said by insiders, that they were thinking, they were really deciding between Cunningham and either Greener-Mobly. Yeah, I do hesitate to play the, like, why some information leaks and who it gets leaked to game, but let's, let's do it anyway. a little bit of game theory here, action. Like I wonder if Weaver and the Pistons said to themselves, okay, well, we like Cade and he's most certainly going to be the guy as of a couple weeks ago, but we don't want to leak that information because we want to keep Houston

and or Cleveland on their toes and whoever else might be. Because, you know, if Houston's sitting there and they're putting out information that they actually like Jalen Green or maybe they like Cade Cunningham one or two, that it behooves the Pistons to not have it be known who they like early. And then this morning, kind of leaking it out there that they do like Cade and that that puts them in the position where, okay, we're going to take this guy. And now if someone really likes Cade, maybe you could sweeten those trade offers a little bit and whatever Godfather offer you might get becomes that ultimate one that might even

be something that sways you into considering it. So again, I hesitate to put what. what the mind frame of those kind of media games and leaks is all about. But, you know, if I tried to be a little bit conspiratorial, that would be what I thought. And then for post, you know, the pick being made, if you're a Weaver and you leak that information earlier this morning, why wouldn't you just say that that was the truth so that when you're dealing with teams and people are hearing leaks from Detroit in the future, you would think that was just genuinely true as opposed to some mind game you were playing?

And that's just my take. Not to cut you off, but our Pistons bloggers gone off the board to Orlando at 33, Jason Preston. His local team, the Orlando Magic that he grew up with. He's, I think he's from Florida. So good for him to be staying in Florida. Orlando is trading. A bummer. The worst places to be than L.A., I guess.

So whatever happened, I'm just putting myself in the shoes of a Pistons blogger, wherever whatever NBA team drafts you, pretty good deal. Yeah. So the Thunder traded picks number 34 and 36 for 32. And who knows, maybe the Thunder just don't really care about pick value in the second round. I find it hard to believe. But I thought prior to the draft that the likeliest scenario for the Pissons to draft up would be 37 and 42 for 32.

And that offer would have been beaten. Seems like it. Seems like it. Just to go back to what Matt said, because I jumped in with Jason Preston, I did want to respond. I completely agree. Not only is that something that I subscribe to, I wouldn't even call it a conspiracy. I'd say that's more than likely. Because if you think about it, what's the incentive of putting out there early on in the process? Who exactly are going to take? Because if other teams know that we're zeroed in on Cade, what's the point in, you know, giving your absolute best offer? You know the Pistons aren't going to take it. And so really, by kind of shrouding, this whole thing in mystery, the pistons are only benefiting themselves.

They're kind of holding out for something that might blow them away. And I'm sure they knew, like, look, probably there's not going to be too, too much to come of this. It's all but guaranteed we're going to take Cade. But why not take a shot in the dark and see what you can entice other teams to do? Because look no further than the Westbrook trade, right? When teams get desperate, they do stupid things, you know? It goes without saying that holding those cards tight to your chest and making sure that nobody

knows your exact plan is an effective strategy in professional sports. So I think Weaver and Coe did a good job. And at the end of the day, we ended up with the player that we want, right? Yeah, I think so. And, you know, there's different ways to skin the trade market and they try to do what they can. And ultimately, it probably wasn't going to matter. I mean, we can talk game theory all we want, but no one was going to give you the, you had to have correctly a huge ransom to get that number one pick, and it just wasn't going to come. So I think ultimately it all works out. And, you know, just talking more about this first round, some of these names.

I'm really interested about Sen Goun. I think he ends up on the rockets after a couple of picks. Yeah, this Turkish guy who's supposed to be kind of the old school center, interested to see how he looks down the road, analytics dream, apparently. And I just, I like, you know, Isaiah Jackson's obviously got the athleticism there as well, Garuba and Christopher to the, to the, to the rockets too. So, and I'm sure some of these have been traded and I'm getting them wrong. But again, when you're talking about Jalen Johnson, a guy, and again, you know, ended badly at Duke there.

But I can remember the way he started last season and such a weird year for scouting and COVID and everything that was going on in these past, you know, two years, really, that when you can get a guy who was talked about as being a top 10 prospect at number 20 with Atlanta and Jalen Johnson, I kind of like a pick like that, even though, you know, maybe the negatives and the downsides are going to prevail and they'll never be much of an NBA player, but I think it's a worthy gamble to take at number 20. Fair enough. I was just thinking as far as this is a moot point now, of course, but some of, you know, the news came out and I don't actually believe it.

I think our best sources for this were Bleacher Report and Chad Ford, neither of whom I consider particularly reputable. I'm sure Bleacher Report has some guys who have sources, but this was coming from just kind of a, what seems like a random dude, whatever the case, that the Thunder had offered Shea Gilges-Alexander and the sixth overall pick.

I don't think it was ever offered because it, I really don't think that would have made sense for the Thunder to offer that, but and also because it was never reported on by any reputable source. But, you know, just for discussion sake, was that a trade that either of you would have accepted? Matt, you want to go first? Yeah, I'll go first. I think it doesn't quite make a whole lot of sense for the Thunder, and I don't think it quite makes a whole lot of sense for the Pistons either.

When you talk about Cade versus Shea, I just think that the ability to keep them in-house for four years and the contract that you're going to be working with puts it over the edge for me that you'd rather have Cade. The timetable works out better. Of course, Shea's a better player right now. And you'd rather have them to win basketball games this upcoming season. But the drop from one to six is just so big this year. We talked about it earlier. Josh Giddy ends up going number six.

Sure, you could take Kaminger, Wagner, or Davion Mitchell. But, man, what a drop down that would be from Cade Cunningham. I just, to me, in a normal year, one versus six, and then a guy who's, was going to maybe go to an Eastern Conference All-Star game at some point in Gilgis Alexander. Yeah, that would be a worthy trade you'd consider doing it. But the makeup of this draft, the timeline that you are on, and just the trajectory of the organization, I just don't think that would have made sense for the Pistons right now. One of those trades that maybe both teams say no to in reality.

Yeah, I tend to be in agreement with that. And I think that it's very easy to look at Shade Gilgis Alexander, who, by the way I think the world of. I think he's a great player. But I think it's easy to look at him and say, well, how could you not take that trade? Look at how good he is. Look at how young he is already. And it's like, well, I don't think it's that crazy to think that Cade can be better than Shea. Like, yeah, maybe it's wild to say now when he hasn't played a game. But like, is it okay to say in a year from now, two years from now? And it's exactly what Matt said. Do you want a paid Shea Gilges Alexander and the sixth pick? Or do you want team control to Cade Cunningham?

and he's now going to lead your franchise into its next era. So I don't know for a fact that OKC offered it. If I was Troy Weaver, honestly, I would have declined it. So I think maybe, yeah, it is that rare situation where both teams say no. And I wonder, like, there was a little bit of talk about whether, and again, we're talking about hypotheticals on a hypothetical that we didn't even know it was true to begin with. But like, if there was a way for OKC to use some of their picks to get to three

and then make it Shea and 3 or something like that. Then you're talking about still walking away with Mobley or Green. And that's why different. So that, that to me becomes the part where you say, okay, this comes like a 50-50 proposition of whether you take this deal or not. And at the end of the day,

I probably would take that deal. But then again, why would OKC then? You know what I mean? Because OKC could have a Shea and a Jaling Green or an Mowgli. Well, I think, I just think that OKC is playing this weird shell game right now with all those

picks, right? That it's like that Sam Presti, I mean, if you just, if you just stack picks day in and day out, all these NBA analysts talk about how much of a genius you are. And we saw how that worked out for Danny Age in Boston, not very well, right? That was just a mess. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, and not to say that it won't work out and that Oklahoma City doesn't have a bright future because I do believe they do, but it's like getting a bunch of draft picks for Paul George is not exactly like this masterful plan. and at the end of the day, all it does is make like, it just makes your job security a little bit better. I don't know.

I have kind of a more of a negative viewpoint about those kind of moves. Because at the end, you know, and really you're just serving up bad basketball with Oklahoma City fans for the next few years. And I don't know, that just doesn't really do as much for me. And again, you don't want to be what the Pistons did for all those years and just try to churn out decent teams with a very low ceiling. But there is some middle ground.

between what a team like Oklahoma City is doing and, you know, the stand van gun to your pistons. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. So just to go back to the, to the Shay discussion, I agree with you guys. I think it's significantly more difficult to, it would be significantly more difficult in general to build around. I mean, assuming Kade is what you hope for, which is one of those, I don't like using this term because somebody else came up with it, but one of these just big heliocentric creators

who you can just absolutely run an offense around. And I don't think Shay's going to be that. I think he's on superstar trajectory, but he's a guy who's really going to need to play next to a primary creator, like a capable primary creator. And it's more difficult to build around him. But also, you're going to have to pay him, and there goes your cap flexibility.

And that could be a significant thing. And so, yeah, I would have said no to that deal almost certainly. And I just don't think it would have made any sense for the Thunder at offer. either because who knows maybe you use those picks in the future to trade for a really good guy to put it alongside him and yeah if you could draft evan mowbly number three and put him next to shade and you've got one of the best you know you've got a super potent combo between the two of them i don't think they would do that but like it's been said people were like i saw uh you know this brought up by um by draft analysts like oh why doesn't you know by some of them why did one of the thunder just use their treasure trobe picks to make you know an offer you can't refuse and and just trade up it's like because a lot of those picks those are lottery tickets, you know, a lot of them from Denver, the clippers, the heat. I don't remember who else. The Rockets. But it, well, yeah, the Rockets. The Rockets, that is the one team where you might get a high pick in, you know, in like the next four years, but that one's top four protected. So, you know, you can either take one of these players, like in the top three, because there was,

there was talk of like, you know, why don't the Clippers just trade, excuse me, the, the Thunder just trade up to the third spot so they can get Mobley. It's because you take Mobley over a bunch of lottery tickets any day of the week. So, yeah, the clippers aren't interesting, excuse me, the Thunder are an interesting case. I agree, you know, you have to turn around and do something with those relatively soon. And otherwise, yeah, you end up like the Celtics just picking, you know, a bunch of, you know, it turned out to be a lot of them. Yeah, just guys who didn't really help them.

Though in Danny Angel's defense, around the time when, or at the time, rather when Paul George was being dangled, they offered four first round picks for him, if I remember this correctly. And Kevin Pritchard, who's the head honcho over with the Pacers, was just completely intent on trading him over to the Western Conference and took at the time what looked like an inferior package to what the Celtics could have offered. Ultimately, it turned out, it turned into Sabonis and Victoro Depot. So that worked out for them, of course. But yeah, I think they got to turn around and do something relatively soon. And so, perhaps even in that capacity keeping Shea around.

I mean, they're certainly not going to laugh for calf flexibility. Well, you know, we've seen till Kamba's out of there. For sure. Yeah. So I think it's trade that wouldn't have made sense for either team. And I would be shocked to find out that it was actually offered. I agree. And if I could just jump in here real quick.

So we've arrived at the 37th pick. So what the Pistons would have had in the absence of the Mason-Plumley trade. And a lot of the names that we talked about are still there, Jared Butler is still there. J.T. Thor, Iyo. Like, these guys are, I don't know. It's sort of making me kind of wonder what exactly is going on, but it also gives me some optimism that 47 is going to have a lot of good names

still left on the board as well. 42, 40s. I keep messing these picks up. It's late. Yeah, I want to just get back to the Shay thing one more time just to kind of maybe shine a light as kind of a guy who's, I've never really been a full-time NBA reporter. But with some of these things, what I suspect,

If I had to guess what happened with the behind the scenes, Shea and number six report is that we talk about Bleacher Report and Chad Ford. Just real quick. JT. Thor is off the board at 37. That hurts. Four has been hammered out of the, yeah, that one hurts me all of it.

It is gone. So you got to believe, Chad Ford and the Bleacher Report reporters, whoever they were, they do get these information from somebody, right? It's not made up out of nowhere. So maybe it's like sometimes the assistant GMs or maybe even player personnel type of player people.

There are discussions had at a low level of the organization. And maybe there was a discussion of, hey, if we were to offer you, Shea and number six for number one, what is just hypothetically what's that all about? So that's not an offer, right? You got to run that up the flagpole to Sam Presti and then Troy Weaver on the other side. Like that could have been a discussion. And then someone is that, that third level of the front office is that sort. for that Bleacher Report reporter.

So like the Pistons got that intel, and somewhere in the chain of phone tag here, that turns into Oklahoma City offered that, and then denials from both sides from the top, who win, you know, Weaver's probably the one, or maybe Ed Stefansky is the one who has the, the hook in the line to Woge, the line to Shams, like the, you know, the two or three or four real reporters that we know are the real ones that have the intel. So that's just kind of a little bit of a process on what might have happened with that Shay Intel. That's possible. Like, I always encourage people to be a little dubious of rumors that come from people who are not reputable insiders on the local or the national level.

But also, like, rumors that are very juicy, but nobody else is reporting them. It's like, so you have this kind of relatively small-time guy. saying, well, listen to me, look what's happening. It's like, I'm guessing that of all the people in the world, and of all, you know, with all the sources that are possessed by people like, you know, chams and Boge and even guys like Zach Lowe or Mark Stein, you know, you are not the only ones who have heard of this. It makes it very likely that you are not being truthful.

And like in this day and age of Twitter, people are going to remember you like the average person who reads you is you know reads your stuff on Twitter is going to remember you from when you were right not all the times when you came up without landish rumors that were wrong you know i feel like yeah i feel like twitter really encourages people to go out there because if you're right it's like fantastic if you're wrong a lot of people are just going to forget about it and of course the other thing that i thought i found was interesting as i as i know who someone is you know i kind of know the inside and and also the fan perspective outside of it.

The reason, people always kind of wonder, like, how does Schefter and Woge get all this information? One of the reasons, other than, of course, we want this information to get leaked out there because we're having some kind of a leverage play. The other reason is that Woj and Schefter have other information from other teams that they are giving, that they're not reporting, but they are giving, it's an exchange of information. So they have information that they give to other teams so that Wodge can report some rumor or trade discussion that might be going on. It's just kind of a give and take. There's an information system out there that those guys have intel from top parts of all the organizations around the league. You know, maybe OKC notwithstanding, but like some of the teams will be more tight-lipped than others. But it's an exchange of information that some of it's never going to be public.

Some of it's allowed to be public. and that's just kind of how that all works. Yeah, fair enough. But like I said, I would be shocked to find out that that offer was actually made. Sure. By OKC. I mean, that's to have that kind of tidbit of information and have it not reported by those, by these national, big national insiders we're talking about.

It just seems very unlikely to me. A.O. staying in Illinois with the Chicago Bulls at 13. Indeed. Yeah, J.T. Thor was selected with the Pistons pick, which to me hurts a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, he could get a prospect, but there's some good names still. I would love Sharif Cooper. I know, Mike, you're not as high on him as I am, but I thought he was a first round pick.

Oh, I did. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, yeah, J.T. Thor, I mean, well, I don't know if the Pistons, like, you're not drafting for fit at this point if you're the Pistons. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, ideally, I mean, if you're taking, and I'm going to freely admit here that I didn't really research very far into the second round. So I'm kind of operating in the dark right now. If you can find some sort of, I don't remember, there was one of them. There was one guy I know who was projected mid-second rounds,

just a very athletic guy who's just an excellent rim protector and can play above the rim. I think, if I'm remembering this correctly. That's the kind of guy I might look for for the piston, just a rim-running lob catcher for the second unit. Yeah, they really don't have that. Yeah, they don't have that right now. Like you said, and when you look at this, and I did mention kind of a veteran center, but that's a good point that like that really super athletic catching lobs second unit center

could be something whether that's maybe a young guy that you pick up in free agency or maybe this pick here at 42 that could be an interesting one although i'm looking at the best available there's really not a lot of centers um Greg brown's a name to look out for i remember seeing a tweet that the pistons were interested in him i don't know how reputable that was but he's Josh jackson 2.0 you think so oh yes this guy had 10 assists i think or maybe it was nine or eight. I can't remember right now. It was some absurdly low number of assists in this entire season he just played in this year. I thought you were going to say

per game and then you said in this season. It went from really good to really bad. Yeah. This guy, yeah, this guy does not pass. He takes all sorts of bad shots. He's got absolute tunnel vision. He's a questionable perimeter shooter. You know, he's got startup potential if he gets everything together because he's a fantastic athlete. And, you know, he's definitely got the chop

to put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. But man, is he low IQ. Well, how about this? I got a thought exercise for us, as we are about eight picks away from the Pistons now. Or no,

I'm wrong again. 42, right? So we're only a, just me. Only a few picks. These picks are confusing. Who are, what's our prediction of who the Pistons will pick at 42 on the record right now?

Mike, you go, because you called the number one pick two back in the draft one way up to. So good. Let's go two for two. You know, it's, I'm not, I'm just not 100% sure. I mean, I, I'm feeling a little bit of shame to myself right now because I really didn't research. I mean, I, I, I put my time in, like, I decided, you know what, I want to be super knowledgeable about the first round. So, like, you know, I just so I'll be able to go through this draft. The Pistons are picking, you know, number one. And so, you know, it's not like last year when you, you're going over a fair number of prospects thinking, you know, who's who the Pistons is going to pick at seven. So I just did my research on guys in the first round. And so, you know, I just did my research on guys in the first round. And, And, you know, not only did that really not apply, apply me at all, it is not applicable

and I always shoot the piss since my taking the second. But I was completely wrong. I was like, I'm going to be this informed guy. I'm just going to be a fun thought exercise. I'm going to predict what happened. And by like pick 10, I was like, you know, to, you know, screw this. You know, I have completely lost confidence in myself. But also, you know, second round picks.

The reason I didn't do much research beyond that is you never know who's going to be available in the second round. So I'm not sure. I mean, the best I could do is look at like somebody's list of best available. And that would be kind of disingenuous. I'll throw off the BJ Boston of Kentucky. Yeah. That is my prediction.

That's what I was going to say. Yeah, I'm seeing the wingspan. I'm thinking Kentucky, I'm thinking such good pedigree coming into college, five-star guy. It reminds me a little bit of Isaiah Stewart in that regard in that like the pedigree of a talented guy who maybe had a little bit of a disappointing freshman year. a lot like Stewart in some ways. I mean, Stuart was fine at Washington,

but he maybe wasn't the McDonald's All-American, you know, flashy type of big name that you might have expected. So I guess as Butler falls off the board, by the way, to the jazz at 40, two picks away. Yeah, that hurts a little bit too. Yeah, that would have been a good one. Oh, man. Well, I'd like to see Sharif Cooper.

I would. I'm going to be a little upset if it's Sharif Cooper. I don't think he's the Weberts. to play or other. No, I don't think so either. I like Petrussev, though. He's someone that we had planned to do an episode where we were going to go really in depth into these second round picks and due to the nature of, you know, just different things going on. We didn't get the chance to do that episode. Yeah. I look deeply into Petrussev and I think he's got potential to really stretch the floor at the five position. I think he could be a nice utility backup five. So that'd be a pick that I could see Weaver

making. Yeah. I think he was a guy that throughout the process at some point was a lot higher on a lot of boards. Yes, I think so. Played at Gonzaga, too, I believe, right? Like, he's from Serbia, I know, but like he was with Gonzaga's program for a while. It played at Montverd as well, as I'm looking up some of this stuff. He was a guy who... I think you're correct.

Yeah. So kind of a weird path to the NBA as it comes, so a guy who's kind of been around a little bit. Some more names, you know, Dyshaun Nix is still out there from the G-League Ignite team. as well. AIA from from Gonzaga too. Nice little role player in college on a great team. So yeah, some names out there that you recognize. Of course, we talked about a little bit about livers and Aaron Henry and Brown out of Michigan and Luca Garza who put up the huge numbers in college as well. So could be someone you recognize, but, you know, could be someone that we're also scrambling to get information about when they get picked too.

Is there anyone you guys absolutely do not want to see be the pick? or does it not really matter? Let's see. I'm not sure if I've mentioned this, but I don't really want Sharif Cooper. I haven't heard that. Yeah. Yeah.

Goodness. I don't know. I mean, we're getting very close to number 42 here. It's 41's up on the board. Yeah, like I've said, unless there's somebody just, I'm absolutely not really forgetting. I don't think Greg Brown would be a terrible pick. I don't like the shades of Josh Jackson at all.

But, you know, who knows? I mean, the athletic upside. I mean, you could say the same thing about Josh Jackson. The athletic upside is there. You know, if you can just get a shot together and become less of a black hole and a ball stopper and have better shot selection. And my goodness, the more I talk about this, the less I like him. Yeah. What about Charles Bassi? How do you guys feel about him? I don't know anything about him. So, yeah, so the 41st pick just came off the board that was Joe Weisskamp. I don't. So, you, you know, You've got, yeah, still on the board. Oh, the guy I was thinking of was Jericho Sims. Okay. He's still on the board.

Very athletic. You know, a pretty good defensive player. Good Wob threat. Just not offensively speaking, not really, it doesn't really provide much to you. A really bad free throw shooter as well. I want to throw this out there before they pick. that George David is the agent,

and I know that this has been talked about a little bit in Pistonsphere, but George David is now the, what, I think the assistant GM for the Pistons, and he was the agent for this guy from Belgium, Vrenz, Bielenberg. So I expect that to be more of picking the 50s, but he's someone that's been linked to the Pistons

because of that connection. Are there any Belgian players in the NBA right now? Don't know. Don't know. I don't. Oh, wait. Natila Kina is I suppose I think he was French just looked it up now he was born in Belgium it seems

DJ Mbenga I'm not sure for whom he plays but yeah I mean this is So 42 Portland has acquired 43 from neurons I'm not fighting really hard right now yeah right yeah me too

I'm just I'm just hoping it's not Cherif Ku I just I don't see a world in which in which Sharif Cooper is really going to be a much use of the best. I saw Rod Beard tweet Isaiah Livers, but he said it would be a good pick. Yeah. And he also brings up a good point about the Motor City Cruise that suddenly you have a G-League team that you want to sell tickets to, as opposed to not caring about the Grand Rapids Drive.

So, yeah, maybe the local type of player could be more in play there. Obviously, it's a bad reason that you don't want, but it's a reason nonetheless. All right. Isaiah, the pick is Isaiah Livers. Oh, there you go. Is it actually? Yeah. Yeah. James, James reporting.

It was just, yeah, exactly. That's awesome. I like that. I do. So if we're looking at Isaiah Liver's not at all athletic, not very athletic anyway, a guy who shot very well at University of Michigan throughout, you know, between his sophomore and his senior seasons, he ended his career at the University of Michigan shooting 41% from three.

That's college, you know, college three. point line, but nonetheless, that's a good sign. Not particularly able playmaker, not particularly good at putting the ball on the floor. And he gets there. And, yeah, honestly, if you guys particularly, you Matt, might be a lot more familiar with him than I am. Yeah, I will cover it a lot of Michigan hoops, not in his last year, but the years before that. And yeah, you know, kind of echoing a lot with what you say, character-wise, what you want. you know, standout football player in high school, all that stuff, Kalamazoo guy, local guy, obviously had the injury and missed the NCAA tournament there

in the Big Ten tournament. But it's just interesting because, and I know that maybe we'll tie in Franz a little bit here, but like Franz talked about as a top 10 pick, but like you watch him play and you're like, man, I'm really not that excited about his NBA prospects. I know he defends well. And he's a guy that you hope can grow his offensive game. as time goes on. But Livers, to me, on the other is like the other side of that coin where it's like, you know, the, the athleticism is not quite there. the intangibles aren't or the the tangibles aren't quite there but the intangibles are there it's that

guy that you believe is going to hit that shot he's that leader on the team all that kind of stuff and just I like Isaiah levers I always thought that he was a guy that's going to come through for you and again that doesn't matter when you're trying to make the NBA and you're going up against some of the best athletes in the world but I think a worthy shot in the second round and I do think it's interesting that a guy who's probably going to spend some time on Wayne State's campus for the Motor City Cruise and maybe some local fans might come out to watch that and that could be part of the thinking for the Pistons too. Yeah, I'll echo that Matt. I think those are pretty succinct kind of summary of his game but yeah, he may not be the most skilled guy in the world,

but it'd always behooves a team to have like a tough, gritty, you know, a big who can score, right? And Isaiah can, you can certainly shoot. He can rebound. He can play good defense. His motor is good. But And aside from that, of the Michigan games that I call it, yeah, he never struck me as an overly, you know, not an elite athlete, not an elite score, not really elite at anything, but kind of just a do-it-all leader, I guess. So, I mean, maybe it's the leadership qualities that attracted Weaver to him, but I guess time will tell if he has any kind of role on this team moving forward, but I expect him to be with the crews. And of course, let's not forget who his college coach was early in his career and who the new has an official role with the Pistons now as kind of a player. development guy. But also, while we're here, hats off to James Edwards for scooping the pick, scooping his coworker Shams and being the first to report that. You got him quick, yeah. And then Greg Brown goes immediately after to the Blazers.

Yeah, as much as I don't like Greg Brown, I think he's a much more NBA upside player than Isaiah Livers. I mean, this is just basically me hurriedly researching what I can about Isaiah Livers. Seems like the guy is going to be a defensive liability at the NBA level. because it lacks the speed really to defend quicker guys, lacks the strength to defend stronger guys. You know, the shooting is nice, but, you know, the pistons really lacking in unathlethic shooters, you know, like you already have Cervidus,

just going to take a baroster spot on that. No. It's like, yeah, it's like, you know, what, yeah, I just don't like that. I don't like Greg Brown at all, but I would rather, I just think his NBA upside is, is respectable. And from, you know, from what I, the hurried research, or basically what,

uh, what also Matt, you've told me, I just, but do you see any NBA upside for him? Well, I, you know, I just want to drive a little bit more of that narrative point home that I know the analytics, uh, folks and don't want to hear about. But like, this was a Michigan team that was number one in the nation at times and really was riding high right up until Isaiah livers got hurt. And they really were an ordinary team after that, you know, up through into the tournament to get and then losing to a disappointing game in UCLA and then, you know, getting bounced in the Big Ten tournament as well. So, you know, it shows that a winning type of player. But yeah, I think we're kind of all in agreement that this is like a weirdly safe

second round pick and someone who could help out the back end of your rotation. If everything, if the stars align great, that the absolute upside is him to be at the very back end of your NBA rotation down the line, which, really isn't what you're trying to do in the second round for generally speaking. But again, there's some John B-line considerations. There's some marketing of the Motor City Cruise considerations going on. There's some more second-round picks coming in the 50s. And maybe you've got a guy who there's also contract considerations when you get to this point in the draft two,

where maybe there's certain guys who, you know, want to get NBA roster spots. and you don't want to have to deal with that in terms of your locker room slash your entire program of guys who are, you know, a Jared Butler, for instance, who thinks he should be getting minutes on your NBA roster. So a lot of considerations here and not a lot of roster spots as well. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's good. It's, you know, the fan base can feel good about it. It's a Michigan guy. It's a Calamazoo guy.

It's a University of Michigan guy, too. So, yeah, you know, at the end of the day, no bad things can come out of. Probably two-way player. Yeah, if I had to guess a two-way player. I mean, I'm looking at the roster right now in terms of guaranteed contracts for next year. I mean, assuming you're getting rid of Corey Joseph, Cory Joseph's got about, I think, $2.5 million guaranteed next season. So if the pistons waive him, that's dead cap.

This is not really very important. So aside from him, 11 guys plus, you know, if you're going to keep, well, excuse me, 10 guys, if you're counting Tyler Cook, who's a non-guaranteed contract. So you're looking at, actually less than that, excuse me, you're looking at Grant, Hayes, Josh Jackson, Seguid Mboya, Isaiah Stewart, Sadiq Bay, Julia Lokofor, and Dave, you know, Dave, Bitas, Servitas, plus Kate Cunningham. And, yeah, so those are the guys who are going to be on guaranteed contracts. Yeah, plus Kate Cunningham.

I mean, whatever, afterthought, you know. You know, you think so much about the guy, and then he forgot to include him in the roster until the end. So roster space isn't really going to be at a premium at this point, but I would still say that livers is, I think you'll see Sabinly upgraded through standard NBA contract, you know, of several years length. And you'll probably see livers on, this is just an arbitrary guess. I think you'll see livers and one of the next two picks, assuming that they're not packaged to move up like one spot on a two-way contract and maybe a draft and stash with the other. Yeah, I don't know if you mentioned Frank Jackson and Diallo. too. Oh.

Right, right, right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This is what happens when I try to read a cap sheet on the fly. Yeah. You guys continue and I'll come back to you with exactly how many conceivably guaranteed contracts we have for next year. Doing the Lord's work, Mike.

Thank you. On the fly. And so as we sit here, we got, what, 52 and 57, I believe? I think it's just 57. Okay. No. No, we got 52 also. 52 is the Lakers pick.

Yeah, it's 52. From the McSviela, Kaila, I believe. And then 57 from Charlotte. Oh, 52 is actually the Corey Joseph Dilanwright trade. Ah, okay. Who knows? Hey, Sharif Cooper on the board.

I figured I put that out there. But, I mean, you know, it's an interesting discussion with Isaiah Livers when you consider, I was just scrolling Twitter kind of trying to look at these quick reactions here. and somebody made a good note in that some of these, quote unquote, low upside,

right, these guys who have translatable skills that are not projected to have, um, anything that can make them grow into like a star player, for example. Uh, so Isaiah Livers has his shooting, but he's not projected to be anything more than I.

I mean, that's a translatable skill that like you said, Matt could serve you well at the back end of a rotation. And even though it's not exciting or sexy, it serves a purpose, you know, and the intangible, even though they can't be quantified, they can be qualified.

So I'm excited for the pick. I don't know. And maybe one day he'll get a shot with the Pistons. He's not just a permanent cruise fixture. And I'm rooting for him for sure. He seems like a good kid. And he was definitely the heart and soul of that Michigan team for sure. And I think that we're looking at just just real quick to break in.

We're looking if you keep Sabin Lee on a standard NBA contract and you bring back Frank Jacks and you bring back Comedy Deallo, that's actually 12 roster spots taken out of 15 maximum. Of course, you've cleared both. of your two-way, two-way salary spots or two-way contract spots at that stage. I think just about livers, I think that when you have that one MBA skill, like you said, I think that that's an important thing. And also, there is value in having a good, you know, you want spacing when you have the Motor City cruise plane because you're going to have real players developing on the cruise, right? You've got to believe that Servetus is going to get

some minutes down there, Sabin Lee, maybe even Seku, a little bit more minutes. with the crews, especially with them being right there in Midtown at the new Wayne State Arena, too. So there's value with, even though it's not, you know, a Greg Brown type that has this, some of these NBA skills and body and frame and athleticism that you might, you know, take a lottery ticket type of buy on. I think there is culture value with your G League team to have, you know, 30 guys in your program they're going to give a crap is important. And I think that that, you know, those types of things. And, you know, we're not all excited about livers being an NBA starter someday. But I think that when you have that skill and you have that type of culture, I think that's obviously a good thing.

Yeah. I mean, here's the thing about second round picks. Like based on, I was looking at the data recently. There was a study done I remember by whatever university. I mean, it's not like you need a university to do this study, but it was their data. That second round picks altogether. And sure, this, of course, includes like 50 to 60, where you're almost guaranteed to not get a good player, to not even get a rotation player. About 25% of second round picks make a career in the NBA.

50% bust within four years. And the other 25% never play a single game. So, I mean, second round pinks aren't worthless by any means. Teams like them for, you know, just the lottery, you know, just, you know, maybe you'll find a good player. You have more cap flexibility because you don't need to guarantee anything. I believe beyond the first year. And, you know, they're useful trade fodder. But, you know, no matter where you are in the second round,

you know, you get closer to the first run, that's good. But even you're thinking pick number 31, 32, like at the end of the first round, you're, you know, it's a big win if you get a good rotation player. So no matter what we talk about about second round picks, yeah, that the reality is that they can be shot, you know, they're statistically speaking shots in the dark. and if Isaiah Livers goes on to be a decent rotation player, cool. If not, then, you know, that's just how things go,

assuming that you didn't leave a better player on the board. I've always kind of heard that picks in the 30s could be something. Picks in the 40s are probably nothing, and picks in the 50s are absolutely nothing. Yeah. All right, so we're actually back from a break here. We took some time off to allow for the picks to be made for the business. So first one is

Luca Garza. This basically boils down to like pretty good offensive player. A horrific defensive liability in the NBA. Like he could barely defend in space against smaller players in the NCAA, vastly less athletic NCAA. This is a guy I would predict

maybe you give like Boban minutes to in niche situations. But in order to do that you have to list him. Like he has to be one of the guys on your roster to just, you know, in a game you have to give. Like I know, they, yeah, whatever.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's, you know, 12 men, whatever. You guys have any thoughts? Well, that's the mantra of the second round is, yeah, whatever. It's 1240, and I can't say that the Pistons did anything that particularly excited any of us. And like we were just talking before we hit record again, the results of the Mason-Plumley trade, at least tonight, are non-existent. So, I mean, it's tough to walk away disappointed from a draft where you landed Kate Cunningham. but I don't know, I was expecting a little more movement, a little more excitement.

And at the bare minimum, some athleticism coming out of this second round. But it appears to me that we've drafted some players with, I guess, translatable skills, immediately translatable skills, but not a whole lot of perceived upsides. So I don't know, Matt, if you have a different perspective, but that's sort of where I'm at. Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of on the same wavelength as you guys. You know, we'll throw out there that Luca Garz is one of the more accomplished college basketball players of the past 10 years or so. I mean, we're talking about All-American for two years. It's monster offensive numbers. And I know that a lot of this stuff doesn't translate.

This is like as old school of an offensive center as you can believe. But at the same time, great touch around the basket. I mean, he's kind of like Joliel O'Ker4 2.0 in some ways and that he's very limited defensively, very limited athletically. But like kind of a savant of offensive ability underneath the basket. Again, not important in today's NBA, but we're seeing a trend, right? Maybe Troy Weaver likes this kind of thing. I do remember watching some Iowa games this year and just being so impressed with him offensively to the point where he said, hey, some team's going to take him in the second round and I don't hate it. So again, I don't hate the Luca Garza pick, but there's no reason to love

it either. Yeah. It's, it, I just really would have, would have preferred to take a shot at somebody who is considerably more athletic. Yeah. I just don't see why. I mean, one of the needs of the pistons have, I think, reasonably speaking, is a just a rim running center. I mean, realistically, whatever. These are the 50s. These are picks in the 50s. I mean, you're fantastically lucky if you get a rotation player here.

But I just would have liked, you know, upside picks with just greater athleticism. And then we get the big pick of the night at 57, huh? Yeah. Let me try and read this here. Balsa, Koprivica. Cope Brevaca. So he is a Florida State Seminole. Born May 1st, 2000, that's about the extent of my

biographical knowledge on him. Other than the fact that he went to Montverde, I think with Cade, he might have been there at the same time. I'm looking at that. And I think that Balsa was there maybe a year or two before Cade, because I think Cade was there his junior and senior year. And it looks like Balsa's 21 right now. So they may have missed each other.

But still, you know, coming up in that program, Kevin Boyle, one of the best high school basketball coaches of all time, a team that's, you know, in the top 10 of the top five over the last several years, Ben Simmons, Kate Cunningham, DeAngelo Russell, just kind of a who's who in a lot of ways of high school basketball. So good to be around that program, I guess. For sure. And I mean, not an above the rim player. Mike was noting that. I mean, Mike, do you have any thoughts about the, well, I guess you could talk about. ball says specifically, but it's sort of the lack of athleticism in the second round as a whole. It seems to be a theme. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know anything about this guy, about the guy picked at 57. Like Garza is, it was a notable name out of the NCAA for good reason for his offense.

And it wasn't he a national player the year? I think he was a two-time, well, two-time first-team All-American. I think he was a national player of the year one year. Yeah, he was once. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know about him. This other guy, I have no idea who he is.

And it's like this kid, but I mean, at that stage, it's like, okay, maybe you can get this guy, like, outside of the draft altogether as an undraft of free agent. But in that case, you're competing against other teams. So I guess, I guess the front office really wanted him. But I know nothing about him at all. And it's, it's been difficult to find any material about him at all. We'll just assume that he paved the way for Cade in high school. And that's about the extent of it. Maybe he hosted him for his recruiting visit at Montverd or something like that.

Honestly, based on Google Images, that is not who I would send out to incoming freshmen. So, you know, he played at Montverd, and then I guess he played two years at Florida State, and including, you know, these last couple years. So it looks like you got 10 and 6, 10 and 5 and a half this past year, started a lot of their games, 20 minutes a game. Serbian, I mean, if you're going to pick a European country that you want your draft and stash type of player to be from, Serbia is a good place to be. Non-existent shooting, you know, didn't throw up a three-pointer in his entire college career. Yeah, so, you know, what you might expect in the second round number 57.

Florida State, we know, has put out some pros these last couple of years. The two consecutive number four picks in the drafts. So good program to be in at Leonard Hamilton in terms of your development. and then in Mount Verde too. So pedigree from Serbia, development looks like for Wikipedia, and who knows, sounds like the parents were basketball players as well. So, you know, some of those things that you like to get excited about if you want to be positive. And there's some reasons to believe this guy might even do something down the road in years and years.

Fingers crossed. Yeah, I feel, I feel obligated to reiterate that, I mean, you know, we can, obviously we're discussing these picks. but these guys are second round picks. The Pistons picked three times past pick 40. Like if one of these guys turns into a rotation player, the Pistons will have been statistically quite fortunate. You know, being picked this late in the draft. So, you know, these are guys who the Pistons will have under team control.

They're not going to, you know, I think it's unlikely we'll see any of them on the opening night roster, like, for obvious reasons. And, you know, as much as I would have liked to, I'm not going to say that picks in this range don't matter because all picks matter, but it's as much as I would have liked higher upside players in terms of athleticism. Like I said, I kind of like Cherokee Sims, for example. Yeah, just we'll see.

I misspoke on Balsa. He threw up one three-pointer this past year and knocked it down. One for one. Wow. 100% from three. My goodness. 100% from three. Doesn't get any better than that.

Sounds made up. Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. All right. So anything to add before we call it a night and you guys get to go to sleep. Yeah. Woj is reporting Aaron Henry two-way deal with the Sixers. So congratulations to Aaron Henry and the Michigan State listening. Congrats for them.

Yeah, good for the Sixers and good for Aaron Henry. My final words are not mine. They're actually Tommy's. Tommy messaged me a while ago and he wanted me to let the list. listeners know that he approved of the Cade Cunningham pick. So that's good. That's Tommy's contributions for tonight. Fantastic.

Yeah, it's a good night for Pistons fans. It's a lot more boring than last year's draft. It's a lot more boring than last year's free agency first night. But obviously when you have the first pick of the draft and that's boring, that's a good thing. So everything is great on this day for, and maybe it's a boring off season for Troy Weaver, and that wouldn't be so bad either. No. Teams in a good direction.

and Cade Cunningham is a member of the Detroit Pistons. It sounds weird, but it sounds good, too. But it's the truth, and it won't be boring during the season. I'll tell you that. True. And we got Summer League coming up on the 8th of August. Yeah. So not far on the future.

No, and Kate runs on playing in it, right? I would imagine that'd be shocked if you didn't. And also, we've got free agency coming up on the second. So we'll be releasing an episode shortly thereafter, just to recap that and to, it's a previous summer league a bit as we'll have a better idea of the roster at that point. Yeah. So, yeah, Matt, thanks again for coming on the show.

Always a pleasure to have you. Absolutely. Guys, I appreciate it. And we'll do it again soon. Absolutely. I hope so. All right, everyone, as always, thank you for listening. And we'll catch you in the next episode.