Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 64: Pistons ad-libs and prop bets, part two

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

This episode features Mike and Tommy calling more overs/unders. Topics include the likeliest number of trades made in the upcoming season, Killian Hayes' scoring numbers, Saddiq Bey's three-point percentage, Cade's chances at winning Rookie of the Year, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back, everybody, to Drive into the Basket. This is part two of our ad libs and prop bets episode. If you haven't listened to Part 1, I would encourage you to give that one to listen first, just so you get in the full experience of the episode, so to speak. Either way, let's get to it. So moving on here, we did have a Jeremy Grant points per game question, but I sort of feel that this entire episode,

we've sort of been, we've talked about them quite a bit, and we sort of have an understanding that we expect them to be up in that maybe 20, 21 points per game. So I sort of modified the question a bit because I think it fits more with the theme of the episode. And I think it'll make for a good debate. So right now we've got Killian Hayes. And this pertains to his points per game as well. But the money line is nine and a half. Nine and a half points per game.

And I have to pick over or under. Okay. I've made no attempt to hide the fact that I'm not the biggest Killian Hayes fan. I didn't expect his scoring to be as bad as it was. It didn't really come along. I'm curious to see how they use him this year, whether it's off the bench or if they do want to. Like in Summer League, they gave him the ball quite a lot. It didn't work out too well.

So I'm curious to see whether they bring him off the bench to ease him in, whether they start him again and give him the ball, or if they start him and keep him off ball, see if they can work on his catch and shoot three-point shot. Regardless of what it is, I think Killian plays a fairly different. passive game at times and he's just not a very aggressive score. I don't expect that to go away soon. I do feel like it's the sort of thing where if he, I feel like he could just like come into a game and find his rhythm and then it's just something that gets a lot better really quickly. But I just, I don't have faith in Killian averaging more than nine and a half. So I'm going to

take the under here. I think he's going to average a decent number of assists, but I just think he's going to be looking for other options and I don't expect him to average more than 30 minutes a game. I think he should be brought down. I think he's just going to struggle too much. So I'm going to take the under nine and a half here. Okay. So if I have to argue the over, I mean, Killian came into last season, of course, is just a deeply flawed NBA player and just had a bad season overall. I mean, even the games in which he was seeing heavy usage and, you know, extent, you know, sort of you would think doing well X, you know, X number of assists, whatever. It should be noted that for a better NBA team, he wouldn't even be seeing the floor.

He was playing primary ball handler for a team that was in those situations sitting Corey Joseph. I think Saban Lee was the backup, and Killiam was playing a very ball-dominant role. I mean, just the games in which he did well, generally the ones in which he was hitting his threes. So, and he looked terrible in Summer League. I mean, he couldn't get anything going in Summer League. aside from on defense. He was capable on defense there. So I think that a situation in which Killian could hit the over and more do so efficiently because like I said, a few minutes ago, I mean, guys are going to be kind of fighting for usage,

I think, on this team, not Cade, but a lot of guys are going to be fighting not Sadie because he's just going to be shooting and not Jeremy, but a lot of these guys are going to be fighting for usage because, you know, especially guys in the wing where I think you can, if you're if you're putting K to point guard, you can really clasp if you can really bump Killian in there, at least where the starting lineup is concerned. And you've got him, you've got Josh Jackson, whatever. Frank Jackson, you've got Diallo. You've got a lot of guys who will be looking for shots, really across the roster.

Not that they'll be hunting shots for themselves, but it's like, it's not like Killian has this place. It's not like he's positioned on the team in such a way that, oh, this guy is guaranteed to get heavy usage because he is not. And if he's if he's not playing well and somebody else is, then, you know, his minutes may suffer. So we'll just postulate a situation in which he is getting a significant number of minutes. If he's getting that significant number of minutes across the season, it probably means he is doing well. And if he's doing well, I'd say the likeliest, the likeliest bet is that he and Kate have found a way to play together well. Kind of in my vision, you know, Kate is that heliocentric, heliocentric creator. He was really playing a heavily on-ball role, and Killian is more in kind of a Lonzo Ball-plus sort of role,

shooting threes on fairly high volume, and hopefully attacking the basket and not avoiding contact. And then just playing Playmaker in transition, though that's not really going to get in points. So, you know, that's going to require certain things, certain big things. Killian can shoot catch-and-shut-threat threes and do it well. Killian does not respond to players getting in his way by slowing down and taking a look, percentage floater. That's, and, you know, and Killian can score at well above what was a horrendously low percentage in the restricted area last season. I think he was in the mid to high 40s, which is dreadful, absolutely dreadful. So in that situation, in which things have gone very well with Cade,

and then things are going very well with Killian also in such a way as to justify him getting big minutes in the starting lineup. In that situation, who knows, maybe he averages like 12 points per game. But that's a lot to ask. And like I said, I mean, the guys I think is going to get top billing, at least early on, but he's going to have to fight to keep his spot high in the rotation if other players are playing well and he is not. So things are going to have to go right for that to happen. And again, we're talking over 10 points per game. Or is it over 9? Whatever it is. 9 and a half. More or less 10. We're talking, Killian actually playing well, not like killing coming out of the floor

with garbage efficiency and scoring 10 points per game because I don't think that would last. No, I don't think so either. And the reason I chose nine and a half, so this was my backup question. So the reason I chose nine and a half is because it really is kind of a toss-up. I could see it going either way.

I tend to agree with Tommy in that I'm just not a big believer in Killian's assertiveness in his scoring ability. I was, but man, it was that summer league performance for me. If Summer League never happened, I would be much more bullish on Killian, like his future outlook as a player as a whole, not just as a score, but Summer League was so disappointing. And as much as I think he does have some confidence issues, I agree with Mike in that I don't think it's primarily a confidence thing. I think he just lacks the skill and the touch right now to really be an effective score.

But as Mike said, and that ultimately is the reason that I would have to take the over if there was a gun to my head and I have to choose is because I think Killian's going to get Todd Billing right out of the gate. I could see him getting 28, 29, 30 minutes per game. And if he's competent, you know, barring what I referenced earlier in the episode, which would be absolutely no improvement whatsoever on his part, I think they're going to keep him in that starting lineup because I think they want him to be the long-term answer. So if he's getting 30 minutes a night next to Kate Cunningham, next to Jeremy Grant, Isaiah, Stewart, Sadiq Bay, guys who can score and guys who are competent teammates, I don't see any reason why 10, maybe 11 points per game is out of the question.

and maybe five, six assists. If he's hitting his catch and shoot threes, which, you know, if he's in the game for 30 minutes and he's maintained that role throughout the season, you'd imagine he is hitting his catch and shoot threes. I think 10 points per game is reasonable. So I'll take the over here. Yeah, that's a big if, though. It's certainly a big if. It certainly is. But at this point, it's like, well, he was a top 10 pick.

I know that it's a weak draft, but is it really that much to ask for a guy to hit his open catch and shoot threes? Like maybe it is for Killian, but I hope that he can achieve that relatively small feet. And if he does, I think the over on nine and a half is a little too good to pass up. But I could easily see myself in another universe taking the under as well. So I think there's a toss-up. Yeah, Killian actually, he does look way better on the catch-and-shoe three than he does on really any other shot other than making the floor. I actually like the floater. I know it's not a good envision shot, but he- I like the floater too.

Yeah, I like how it looks. If he was going to be a point guard, that actually is a nice shot to have. And then the other thing is maybe he really does benefit from having Cade Cunningham next to him. Now he's going to have two guys who are really going to take the pressure off of him. And maybe that allows him to get more comfortable. And if he's going to play this off ball role that I think a lot of us envisioned for him, the Lonzo ball type role, maybe that is something that allows him to get comfortable, establish a different role than we imagined when we drafted him.

but maybe that's something that works. And while I don't think it's a long-term solution, I think it would at least increase his value and turn him back into the NBA player that we know he should be. Right now, like you said, Dante, I think the fact that he was drafted, seventh overall is probably like the biggest advantage he has right now in terms of where he's slotted in the lineup. He hasn't really showed anything else since he got here.

Certainly not the NBA ready player that he was touted at. as when we drafted him. I don't think he was serious. It would be a fight to him already. That's what Troy Weaver said. Oh, well, that's what Troy Weaver said in public. He did say that. I don't know by the draft community if he was touted as a,

I would say that by the draft community, he was touted as someone who might need a little bit because he's coming in raw. But I do remember Weaver saying that he thinks he could come in and make an impact. Yeah, it's, I mean, I think you look at the things that were question marks. Number one, his enormous left-hand dominance. I mean, it was going to kill his NBA. readiness if he weren't better on that.

But here's what even that. He addressed that before the start of the season. He said, my right hand is fine. It's not a problem. That turned out to be a lie. It turned out to be a lie and it's fun. Not a lie, but maybe overly optimistic. I think he got out there, he got bumped and he reverted back to his old self.

Yeah. Yeah. When he said that it's not an issue, I believed him and I never thought about it again until I watched him play. And then I was like, ooh. That was like three weeks later. Yeah. Yeah.

You had a nice three weeks of blissful ignorance there. Ignorance is bliss. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if there's anything we want to say to wrap this. I have one thing. Yeah. I have one thing about Killian. Sure, yeah, he was drafted with the number seven pick.

The Piston certainly didn't draft him with the expectation that they would be able to draft Kate Cunningham. What is it, like eight months later? No, nine months later. You're absolutely right about that. Yeah. Yeah. So I'd say that if you brought in Killian.

presumably as this really high IQ point guard would be able to run your offense and now you have a player who's very likely to be significantly better at that role. So I'd say that I'd say that that doesn't protect killing at all. I'd say that the fact that that Kate came in is a threat to his future with the team. I think that you can consider that maybe Kate is aware of the possibility that aware of the fact basically that he came in and then Killian was looked at and now Kate has looked at in that role because he has made efforts in public to say, oh, I want to play with Killian. I want him to be on the floor with me. But Kate is absolutely a threat, I would say, to Killian's future with the team.

Because now Killian has to kind of develop along a different trajectory. And if Kate becomes what we hope, he will be, Killian has to be a different player. I agree. You can't just be that ball dominant player to play next to Kate. I mean, you can't, you're never possibly going to get the best out of both of them. And the hope and the probability is that Cade will be better at that role than Cillian would be. Absolutely. No, I agree. I think it definitely is a threat to Killian. But the fact that he was drafted so high, I think gives him a bit more security than say,

not even security. That's some cost. A longer leash. You get to a longer leash than say a job on. I like that. I don't think, I would hope that Troy Weaver is not susceptible to getting tied up in sunk cost. I don't think Troy Weaver is, but I think that all signs point to the fact that And I've said this twice already. I'll say it again.

They want it to work. And so I think he'll be given every opportunity to make it work until he shows that it's undeniable, absolutely no chance this way or the other way, that he's going to be able to fit with Kate. Unless it's a disaster, they're going to keep trying to make it work. That's what I think.

It's only season one. The other options aren't world beater, so it's not like he has somebody, like, slot it above him who should be getting it. I mean, he's got a longer way to go to make it work for him as the sidekick to a player who's probably going to be better on ball than he is. Yep. Because he's not, he's not, he doesn't really have as much of the tools to be an effective

off ball player, even if he can shoot. He's not an explosive off ball mover. He's not a lop threat. And, you know, maybe he's not even an effective creator, even in the pick and roll. Who knows? Yeah. So I think it's also worth considering when it comes to Killian that this is really almost sort of year one.

Like, for all intents and purposes, this upcoming season will be Killian's rookie season. season. He really, it got derailed early last season. He had to come back and work his way back from injury. So it's not like you're going to look at it and say, well, if he does poorly, well, it's just not going to work and there's no time. He'll have two years remaining in his rippie deal. I just, I don't think it's out of the question that if he plays very poorly in the first 20 games, that his minutes get significantly slashed, and he doesn't get them back unless he improves or somebody gets injured and he's able to restep into that role in the starting lineup or off the bench, whatever, just in the significant minutes. So yeah, they might want it to work.

And yeah, he was picked number seven. But yeah, if it's just not working this season, then they don't need to keep pushing it. You hope that he comes back in his, you know, it's his third season overall and looks better. But I don't think that, like I said, I think his value has really been decreased by the fact that the Pistons were able to select Kate Cunningham. Yeah. And there are other guys whom the Pistons will want to give run to, again, I think primarily Dielo, if you're looking at guys with potential. I know we're just completely forgetting about Josh Jackson here, but none of us is high

on faith. Yeah, I don't think any of us. No, and no, Mike, that is a good point. And I guess it's a bit ironic because I've been the one who's touting, you know, maybe this is not something I personally believe is in the best interest of the team. but I do think he's got this long leash because of all the things I'd mentioned. But at a certain point here, you know, whether it's year one, year zero, year three, whatever, you got to show something.

You have to. So if that doesn't come sooner rather than later than maybe a spot not only on the team, but in the NBA is in serious jeopardy. I'm keeping a close eye on Jaden Hardy in the G League this season. I'll leave it at that. I think Kelly and has got time and I think they would give him, you know, unless a trade really presented itself at some point after year or two, if he really still hadn't done well,

though in that case, I doubt his value would be very high. It's just like work will need to be done. If Kate, you know, if Kate is what people hope, work will need to be done to make this a worthwhile pairing. I mean,

things will really need to go right with Killian in order to make it a worthwhile pairing because on paper it is not an ideal pairing, but you have both, you have two guys who are both at their best on the ball. And one of them, projects to be considerably better. And the other one is not particularly athletic and is not probably going to be better.

Probably not going to be good for more than hopefully. Hopefully, hopefully he gets those catch and shoot threes down. Yeah. So, yeah, I think, I think Killian is sort of working against the clock in a way just because the fit is not there. Do either you guys have anything else to add or do you think we're good? Yeah, no, that was good. Okay. All right, let's move on.

You guys didn't think there wouldn't be a Sadiq Bay question, eh? No, you're better than that. Oh, yeah, no, this one is, I don't know, I think this is a pretty juicy bet if you ask me, but I believe it's Mike up first. So this, excuse me, this pertains to Sadiq Bay's three point percentage, and the line is at 38 and a half. I'm going to go with under, not because I think he'll regress, but because I think he's going to be run on a lot more motion sets.

because we've all said it the next frontier. Well, Tommy and I have said it. I know Dante, you think more highly of his abilities kind of as maybe a tertiary creator. You could say that. Yeah, I think Tommy and I always think that's really his next frontier is as a motion three-point shooter. It's a very useful skill to have.

And for a guy, you know, if he's going to be really a three-point specialist, it's a very, very nice skill to have. So I think he'll be run more on motion three-point sets than he was last year when he was in his, you know, there's the vast majority of his attempts were simple catch and shoots. So I think that could reduce his percentage. But I think he'll finish the season right around 38%. If they run him on less,

on less difficult three-point sets, because he was like a 41% catch-and-chute guy last season. Just, again, it was just on simple catch-and-shoots. So if he's just used more on those and he can manage to improve, then who knows? Maybe he's above 40%. But this is, I think, will continue to be a developmental season where they try to push guys in directions in which they weren't comfortable before. So I would go with the under, but not because I think he will, it's not regress because he only has one season. Not because I think that he'll do more poorly from the perimeter, just that I think his attempts will be more.

more difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I have to argue the over. Yeah. So I think if it's a healthy mix of standing catch and shoots and coming off a screen, turn around, catch and shoot all in one motion, I think if you get the right balance of that, you still improve and you're trying these new things that we would, like you said, Mike, we would both love to see from Sadiq. then I think he can still average above 38 and a half. I'm thinking of Summer League, which is where they did try a lot of new things with him in terms of not just perimeter-oriented stuff where they really, they even gave it to him in the mid-range and let him try it out there because he doesn't,

he didn't get to the rim too often. That's not super relevant to this, but he did struggle on the perimeter with these more difficult catching shoot three-point shots. So I would, I would agree with you, Mike. I think it would drop a little lower, not because he's going to regress as a shooter get worse, but because they probably do see a lot of potential in him. And like you said, development season. You got to argue it over.

I know. And I'm, I just, I firmly agree with exactly what you said. If I had gone first, I would have said exactly the same thing. But I guess it just comes down to. to Sadie getting comfortable because clearly he shot way below his average. So it was definitely just not a shot that he was comfortable with. But at the same time, Sadieck hadn't really had a break this summer.

He went straight from the regular season. He took a short break. I think one of your relatives even saw him in Hawaii, if I remember correctly. And then he went to USA basketball and then to summer league. So he probably was tired. maybe he comes into the season and he ends up being comfortable. He has Cade creating for him now.

So maybe he's able to take these more difficult three-point shots and knock him down with consistency. He's definitely not a bad shooter. He wasn't as bad. He displayed in Summer League. None of us are worried about his otherwise really poor showing. We know that's not who he is. It was just the types of shots he was taking,

and I think fatigue was a factor. So it comes in well-rested, and he gets his shots up. And he can definitely average over 38.5%. He's a good shooter. Yeah, I'm comfortably taking the over here. Not just because he's the president of his fan club. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't really have anything to add. Go ahead, Mike. Yeah. Oh, did you want to jump in here? No, I'm all good. I, yeah, I think Tommy and I primarily is just probably. We just agree on this one. Yeah, no, no, no.

And that's fine because it's like I said, I would comfortably take the over because I think it's possible that he could take, you know, an amount more of, or a good amount more of more difficult shots than he was taking last year while simultaneously upping his percentage just by virtue of the fact that he's a year longer in the league. He's playing next to more talented players. And even if his looks are more difficult in theory, he shouldn't like be the beneficiary of better spacing, better creation opportunities. So if he just stays focused and concentrated and keeps that same stroke that he has that's very, very nice, I feel like he could take more difficult shots on potentially the same or even higher volume and keep that percentage

at around, I don't know, 39%, maybe 40 if things go exceedingly well. But yeah, I thought 38 and a half was pretty good because I thought you could argue it either way. But I guess I'm unplanned my flag for him once again. So if nobody has anything else to add, you can move on the last one. Just to correct something I said. I said that he was a 41% catch and shoot shooter. you're is 40.2%. So just a little bit about 40%. You also said irregardless wasn't a word,

but it is a word. It is, really. Yes, I looked it up because you made me very self-conscious. So I looked it up. Let's see. Let's have a look. We define, according to Merriam-Webster, we define irregardless as regardless. Many people find irregardless to be a nonsensical word. Yeah, it doesn't mean it's not a word. Oh, okay. All right. Well, if you want to use nonsensical words, be my guest. See how they're going to use nonsensical words. It's the other goes for you in court. I'm pretty sure, good one, I'm pretty sure that I read that the ear, the IR prefix and ear regardless can serve as a, it's almost like an additive. It's like an superlative rather. It's like an emphasizing to the word. So I felt very strongly when I said it.

So to me it's a word. If I, if I were the judge and you said irregardless in court, I would hold you in contempt. Yeah, but you also said that Luca Garza wouldn't get a standard MBA contract. So who's laughing now? Oh, okay. Yeah, that's not fair. All right. Anyways want to move on the last one? Yes. Yeah.

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One per customer, restrictions apply. See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details. If you have a gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or in Indiana, 1-800-9 with it. So this is actually my favorite prop. I think it's Tommy up first. So I'm going to use the term this year. And what I mean is from right now up until but not including during the upcoming draft. So it's from right now, right up until the moment that the draft starts, but not during the draft.

So over under on trades this year, the line is at three and a half. half. Oh, okay. How do you make a half trade? You don't. You don't pick you're either three or four or more. Yeah, exactly. I can't make like one quarter of a trade. No, you certainly. I don't know, unless you're aware of some mechanics that I'm not aware of, I don't think. You can blow it to blare out. You see, that's why there's the point five. That's why there's the point five in these stopbats because of force is very true okay um i think the wing needs to be upgraded both at the two and the three i think that this year they were going for stability but i'd expect this team to maybe not underperform but it's definitely not we'll all agree uh this is not

even close to what the team is supposed to be i don't know how many of the guys who are on this team right now are long-term pieces. So there's definitely upgrades that need to be made. The next draft is very heavy in the front court, which with Isaiah Stewart and Jeremy Grant, I think we're pretty strong there. So we need to upgrade the wings, either through free agency or through trades.

I'll take the over on this one. Four trades is a lot, but I feel like there's going to, be like a lot of weaknesses on the wing and they're going to try to address that. Frank Jackson, Hamadou Diallo, Josh Jackson. This is a tough one. I'm not sure how you're supposed to think about it. That's why I wrote it.

Yeah, I've never like actually explored this one before in my mind. Like how many trades are we going to make this season? I think would come from the team maybe underperforming at a certain position, which I think will be the wing. and I think if they want to try to address that, you're looking at Killian being moved. I could see Sadiq Bay being traded as part of a package deal to upgrade at a position where you trade a little bit of depth for strength at a position.

I thought about that one recently. Four is a lot of trades, I feel like, and I know they didn't do a lot this season. I think they wanted the stability. This is tough, but I've kind of argued the over a little bit already, So I'll go with the over for this one. Fair enough, Mike. So if I'm going with the under there,

because how many trades of the Pissons even make last season? I don't know, but for some reason, four seemed like a lot to me. Derek Rose was traded. Of course, Delamripe was traded. Svi was traded. Does Svacu count for this? No.

No, I mean, Saku was traded in the offseason. Yeah, true. So who else was traded last season? Yeah, those those I believe are the only players traded last year. Yeah, really those were the only players traded last year. And that was a tear down. Yeah, and it was, it was Troy. We were really remaking the roster.

So the difference this season, so I'm arguing the under, right? Yep. Okay. So the difference this season is he was really allowed to bring in a lot more just the guys he wanted or bring back the guys he wanted. And you don't have kind of those leftover players. So the way I'm thinking about it, unless there's, well, you can say that if you make a couple of trades, you know, one including like a significant roster player and maybe another, including like,

you know, two or three less important guys, and then maybe it happens. But, yeah, I just, unless there's some very big trade that happens, I just, which I don't think is likely at the deadline, but could happen. I just don't see a situation in which you're trading all that many players this season. I mean, literally every player on the roster now is a guy who Troy Weaver brought in. Most of them are returning players. The rest, for the most part, are free agent acquisitions. Or, well, not for the most part, all of them are free agent acquisitions or draftees. So maybe there are some deals to be made, but it's very different from last season in which he inherited a roster that he had not.

not created. Yeah, everybody, literally everybody on the roster right now was somebody he drafted traded for a son. So. Yeah, so you're arguing that we already have the roster in place that we want. And that, no, that was something, maybe not that we want, but this is guys that we all brought in. Yeah, and it's a development season. It's not like, I mean, there's the incredibly unlikely scenario in which the pistons just take off and are somewhere great by the time of the deadline. And maybe they say, okay, we're ready to make this big trade, assuming one is available. But there's also the fact that the Pistons are pretty asset poor right now. Yeah, so two different schools of thought.

I'm thinking we need to upgrade at certain positions and they're going to want to do it sooner rather than later. And you're under the opinion, they want stability. I know where we're arguing besides because we have to, yeah. Stability and yeah. Well, I believe it's going to be, I don't believe they're going to trade four players unless it's like four players at the bottom, unless, you know, like two or three of those players are at the bottom of the rotation.

because I just don't think that they're in a position in which number one, they have the assets to make a splash. Number two, they have the inclination to make a splash rather than seeing who can develop. And this still being a developmental season. Yeah, the trades they made last year, you trade DeLon Wright to get assets. You trade Derek Rose to get assets and also just to get them off the team.

You trade, and yeah, I think that was part of it. You know, more room for the youngsters and also a worse team. but also the backup point guard who can't really involve anybody else in the offense. Also, I think just doing well by Derek Rose, who wanted to go somewhere and try to win. And then you trade Svi kind of in, it's not a lateral trade, but the thunder weren't, they didn't want to keep you, they didn't want to pay D.L.

So those, and Svee was really near the bottom of the rotation players. So if you're not making like a big splash, why you're ever going to be trading that many players, that's just how I see it. and with so many of these guys being players whom Troy Weaver wanted. Fair enough. Fair enough. Before we wrap up, I have a bonus prop bet if you guys want to hear it.

Sure. All right. I think this is Mike. Is it Mike? Yeah, Mike. I think you're up first here. All right. Number of times Jalen Green makes a headline for an anti-D Detroit comment and the line is

two and a half. I think that the Rockets would tell them I probably have told them to shut up because it's not a good reflection on them I mean this isn't kind of like well Detroit didn't trade well if it if it's just comments like Detroit didn't draft me I want to do really well against them that's one thing but coming out and saying Detroit sucks as a city

and it being just that obvious that he's saying it just because they didn't draft him and him saying oh well I never really actually wanted to live in Detroit I just want to be number one it's this wasn't like kind of typical just trash talk it was it was it was a kid being sulky and just saying some things that really were in my opinion kind of out of line and it was not very sportsman-like talk you can I'm not I'm not a tight-ass about sport you know about you know this is sportsman-like be you know be sportsman-like but it's like you know

you really don't have to come out an insult an entire city. There's a reason it doesn't happen. And so I don't think it's likely to happen again. I think the rockets probably talk to him and said that this is not the sort of thing that it just reflects poorly upon you and it reflects poorly upon the rockets if you talk about wanting to beat the pistons all you can. Don't come out and just disparage the city just because you're resentful.

So I'd say the number of times are likely to hear Jaylen Green, disparage the city of Detroit is likely to be zero. Yeah, I was going to say, does he have to mention the city by name or can he just be like, it can it be like a chip on his shoulder type comment where he's like, you know, the people who doubted me type deal? I'll give you, I'll modify it to be the number of times Jalen Green makes a headline and Detroit has something to do with it. Oh, okay. What is the number? Two and a half. It doesn't have to be.

It sucks and I hate it. But something to do with Detroit and something to do with him making a headline for it. Let's see. I would still hope it's less than two and a half because if it's less than two and a half, it means that Kate is definitely outplaying him. And I don't think that's unlikely to happen. So I'd say we'll definitely get at least one headline because the Pistons, their only scheduled nationally televised game is fairly early in the season against the Rockets.

But even then, I wouldn't be surprised if the Rockets have just told Jalen Green, just focus on your game and don't talk trash. Yeah, maybe. Whoa. So, but I'm going to go with the Ander for those two reasons. I got to argue the over then. All right, yeah. There have been players in the past who used the players that were drafted above them to motivate them.

I could see those types of comments coming out, and especially ahead of that particular matchup, because he did really seem to take it personal. And that's, if I was a Rockets fan, I wouldn't hate that either. It's like, yeah, it's extra motivation. Good for you, man. I like that. I was still a big Jalen Green fan ahead of the season. So he plays with a lot of fire. I'm not surprised that he likes to talk and be a little edgy like that.

So I guess you can make the argument for the over that way. But I don't know. I hope we get some fun comments from him because I know Kate has been kind of above this the whole time. But it's entertaining for us. And it's ignited some fire in the fan base. We have hopefully a nice little rivalry brewing. Yeah. Yeah.

No, no, I was just going to say that I'm going to push because I think he's going to make exactly two and a half headlines. He's just going to stop in the middle of a sentence. Yeah, yeah, or the printing factory is going to run out of ink. So that's, I'm going to go with a firm two and a half. I mean, we can say, I can put out a final bet. So we can say how many rookie of the year awards will Cade Cunningham win? and the line will be 0.999 with repeating, you know, repeating, of course, for those of you who, you know, who catch that, got that reference.

But that was Leroyerickens, of course, but that was the reference. He wasn't what I said it. Whatever, anyway. So, yeah, is he going to win one or zero? He's going to win one. Two? Yeah, I remember a few years ago, a couple years ago, there was like, there was, LeBron came out and he said, I want to be in the running for rookie the year this season.

Yeah, he's going to, he's, Ben Simmons couldn't do it, but he will. Sure, he will. Just so we're clear, and just for posterity's sake, I did save this document and I did save everybody's answers, so we're going to revisit this after the season. Cool. Cool. Yeah, I feel, I feel like I was in a slightly pessimistic mood today for, for reasons on, unrelated to basketball, but whatever.

So, yeah, Tommy, why don't, why don't, why don't, why don't, why don't, why don't, why don't you start because you think very highly of Jalen Green, I know. No, yeah. If I really had to pick, I do think Jailen Green is probably going to end up winning rookie of the year. And it's not going to be because of long-term impact. Because over the course of their careers, I firmly believe that Cate is the better player and he's going to be a more impactful basketball player. But Jalen Green, he's on a pretty bad Rockets team that is clearly going to run a lot through him. I think they're treating Kevin Porter Jr. like a point guard now, but I still expect Jalen Green to get heavy usage and BVA score.

He's going to put up really gaudy stat lines, whereas Cade is going to probably put out more well-rounded stat lines, but the points per game, I expect Jalen Green to be a lot higher, and I expect Jalen Green to have way more in the way of, like, Twitter highlights. You know, he has the vertical. He has the showmanship. I expect him to get a lot of hype, and the Pistons are probably going to be,

about as bad as the Rockets maybe a little better. But if I, like, genuinely, I've thought about this a little bit. I do think Jalen Green is going to win rookie of the year just because he's, he's built for it. I think it's a points for game award. I expect Jalen Green to average more points. Yeah, I think it's going to be Evan Mobley. I just wanted to see Mike's head explode. I mean, it's not, it's not outside the realm of possibility.

No, it is. I don't think it's likely, but I don't know. Oh, God. Come on. It's not outside of the room of a possibility. I'd lay him a 5% chance. I'd give him 5%. Yeah, and then I would give Jay.

I don't know. I feel like it's Cade's award to lose, though. Like, I feel like the first overall pick is the number one overall pick, yeah. The winner. And while I agree that I think Jalen is probably going to have the edge in points per game, you know, if Detroit can finish even slightly better in the standings, which I don't think is crazy. And Cade puts up a really well-rounded stat line on really good efficiency.

why not why not you know because it's not to say that you know jalen will put up gaudy numbers but kate will put up extremely understated numbers like what's 19 20 points per game from jalen versus 17 and a half or so from kade while he puts up other good stats on really good efficiency so i don't know i could see i could see kate winning it i wouldn't be shocked if if if green won it but i think it's kate's to lose right now yeah that early season matchup is going to be huge for that narrative so i hope we win and i hope kate plays really well that game. I'm looking forward to that one. It'll definitely be fun. And I don't know if it's being played in Detroit or... I think it's in Houston. It's in Houston. Okay. Well, whatever the case,

my opinion on this when it comes to Green versus Kate, I think the Pistons are going to play at least early on. They're going to take a more balanced approach because they have more guys they are trying to develop. I mean, with the Rockets, it's like the two centers they drafted, I don't think we'll be seeing a ton of burn in the NBA, because they're not super ready. Garuba's ready to play defense. But then you basically just have Kevin Porter, Jr., Jalen Green, and Jayshon Tate, who's like 25.

So, yeah, Christian Wood will get some burn. I think Jalen Green is just going to be much more the focus of things, whereas the past since we're playing more, just a more, they take a more balanced approach and try to get burn for a lot more players. So, yeah, but if Cade can step in and, again, be that the same for the third time, that under Helicentric or, you know, a big primary creator, then I'd say he has a shot at it. Here's the thing I think about Jalen Green, and this was one of my concerns with him, just in terms of going into the draft before we knew which pick the distance we're going to get.

I just think that he has a high probability of messing up his Achilles, his ankle, or his knee. is the guy skies and he does not land well. He's then, he's going to get hit a lot. Yeah. So I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility. I don't hope this happens. I'm not wishing this upon him by any means. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility

if he only plays like 50 games in his rookie season because he gets injured. Yeah, I agree with you. That was definitely one of the concerns that we had when we were, I think actually that was after, there was pre-draft, but after the lottery. That was one of the main, concerns that we had brought up.

Yeah. Jalen Green doesn't land particularly well. That's something I hope that they're right. Because I do want him to have a good long career. I know that we don't love him right now, but he's going to be a fun player in the NBA, and I think that's just good for the sport. Yeah, I think just he does it. He really, he's fearless.

He plays, he attacks the rim. It's just he does it again and again and again and again and again with how his frame is, just with how bouncy he is. and with the fact that, you know, hopefully nobody tries to undercut. I mean, you don't want that to, you know, to see anybody have that happen to them. Nobody should ever do that. But guys are going to blame physically, not only in the paints, but certainly at the rim. And, yeah, I mean, he's going to be hitting, he's going to be hitting the deck from high in the air quite a bit.

And it's not right now a guy like, you know, like the olden day Russell Westbrook, who got hit a ton going to the rim. but Westbrook's a tank. And he was very good at landing also. Jalen Green is like not, I mean, I'm just thinking, like, what's the opposite of a tank? And I go into military terminology. And, you know, it's like, I don't know, what is the opposite of a tank? He's very slim.

And I'm not confident he's ever going to be a player who's really going to put on a lot more mess. It just seems to be naturally slim, much like Mobley. And about whom I also had health concerns for different reasons. But it's going to be adjustment for him. and he might get beaten up. Yeah, those are all valid points. But I think it's a narrative award. I think Jalen Green is going to be the more fun player to start the year.

Is there anybody else in the draft you think could win rugby the year? Yeah, Luca Garza. Okay. If Scotty Barnes were to put it all together, I can't. I can't. I can't do it. I can't do it.

I can't do it. Scottie Barnes' Riffy of the year. Booknight's going to be playing behind. Lamelo and Rozier. I don't think he has much for show. Oh, yeah, he's behind Rosier. Yeah. Otherwise, his style play otherwise is actually pretty fun, but yeah, I forgot he's behind Rosier.

Yeah, I think it's a two-horse race between Cade and Jalen Green. I'd say 50% Cade, 40% Jalen, 10% Mowley. That's what I'd give it. Yeah, Mowley's in a weird spot. Yeah. He's playing with Jayette. Kevin Love most likely is going to play, I think, and has also said he has no at least as of a few weeks there was no intention of accepting a buyout.

And you've got Jared Allen who's going to get run, of course. Mowgli is going to, I think he's going to be played at Power Forward for the most part, which I don't think is his ideal position. He's got some refinement to do some muscle to add to his health, I think, will always be a concern as well. Unfortunately, again, this is not like, oh, ha ha, these are other teams. You know, I hope this is going to, I don't hope anybody gets injured. And I just think that these are going to be concerns with these guys.

And also, yeah, he's just, he's in a kind of a ridiculously crowded front court. And of course, he's going to get high billing, but, you know, but there are, they're going to be minutes going to four guys there. Yep. So, you know, you give an outside shot to Jalen Suggs, though he would really have to come in and really, really do well. I really respect his, I mean, I think it was, I don't remember who it was. But I just put it this way, Suggs has got a great work ethic and plays super hard. And I bet he'd really have to put it together also he's playing in a terrible team. Like legitimately terrible roster, which I think won't help him.

All right. Well, should we visit anything else before we wrap up here? No, I managed to tell you that irregardless was a word. So I have nothing else to add. I think I'm not. You're now a lot of confidence there. You're not one contempt of courts. Yeah, now I'm good.

Hey, so what do we think of the ad-lives and the prop bets? You know, bail is set at one million Canadian dollars. or 500 American dollars if you prefer. Oh, boy, don't remind me. Yeah. So what did we think of the prop bets and the ad lib is pretty good? Yeah. Yeah.

We'll revisit this. This is fun. Nice. Definitely. Definitely revisit it. So I'm all good if you guys are all good. Excellent. Yeah.

All right, folks. Well, as always, thanks for listening. And as we said, last episode, really, really always appreciate hearing from any of you. We love to hear feedback. We just, we want to provide you with the best content we possibly can. So either find us on Reddit or on the Detroit Pistons Discord or at our Twitter, which is to the basket pod. Yep. And yeah, we hope to hear from you.

All right, folks. Well, again, thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed the episode. And we will catch you next time.