Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 67: Season opener - analysis & takeaways

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

This episode discusses the season opener: takeaways, analysis, and so on.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome, everybody, to drive into the basket, part of the basketball podcast network. I am Mike. I'm here with Dante and Tommy, recording this very shortly after the end of the season opener, the Pistons, came up just short against the Bulls. So we're just going to launch right into it. Dante, I know you wanted to be the first to talk about Killian Hayes, who was an unfortunate story about this game. I think me being born close to Detroit is an unfortunate story, because I just never see my teams win, man. It just it hurts so bad I wanted to win

It's game one Dante Chill It is I agree I enjoy it Yeah And now I'm contemplating where I'm home I did have some fun

But man it soured for me at the end I just I don't know I thought this was a very winnable game And there's something different about Games that are super out of reach Where you like check out of by half time versus games like these where I thought we had a chance to start the season on a good note and get the win. But unfortunately, it didn't work out that way. So I do have some thoughts

about Hayes. And I want to phrase this delicately. So Tommy already told me to chill once, but I don't know. So I don't know how he's going to like this. But he, I just don't think Killian's got it, man. Like, I know it's one game. I understand that. But the lack of progression has been jarring is not the word but frustrating it's been incredibly frustrating i don't think he's improved in any facet in any area or in any conceivable way since he's been drafted at least not in a way that i've seen maybe i'm just not watching the games with enough of a critical eye but he's just useless out there man he he doesn't seem to provide anything and once in a blue moon, you know, he'll throw a lob like the one he had to Stuart tonight. That looks really pretty,

but at the end of the day, who are you helping? No one. And I think Killian, and I don't want to put it all on him, but I think Killian, along with the rest of the guards and some other players, we're a big part of why we lost tonight. You know, when you just can't put it together and be useful in any area, these four or five, six point losses, you know, were avoidable. So that sort of is where my frustration is standing from right now. Yeah, makes sense. I would say with Kalyan, I mean, I'm not looking at it in the context of, well, my goodness, I just put it this way, I'm only looking at it as one game.

However, I concur that the lack of progress is definitely pretty concerning, even just in the context of one game. Like you had him last year, he came in, he got injured, he came back. You know, he looked okay in a couple of games, but, you know, for the most part, he was pretty bad. But you think, okay, he's young. This will be his first real offseason. He's going to have a lot of time to put work in. And he was awful at Summer League.

He came back. Sure, he had his ankle injury. He was terrible tonight. I mean, and the question we asked was during the last episode about Killian was, what does he have at the NBA level? Can he be a productive NBA player in any respect? And unfortunately, he came in and just was a complete non-factor tonight. And what bothered me the most is that the guy still absolutely will not drive

through the middle of the lane and take the contact. If he is confronted him, and he's so easily pushed to the side, even when he goes left, if he sees a defender, they probably know they can push him to the left, and he's going to attempt a relatively low percentage floater or a way up from like four feet away from the basket. So it's like, dude, you can get something done at least, go down the middle, except that somebody's going to hit you. And at that point, you can contribute a little bit, but he did nothing right on offense.

And doing nothing right means that he was a massive net. negative. Exactly. Tommy, what do you think? Yeah, I don't know if this is just wishful thinking on my part, but I actually thought he made a little bit of progress driving into the paint. Like, he didn't, like you said, Mike, he didn't get down the middle. A hundred percent I agree with that. But he was able to get like a foot in the paint. He was, he was getting, he was making more headway than I've seen him do all summer, all through preseason. It's a low bar. It's marginal. I understand that. But like, it was something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's still something. It's more.

It's more. And he was, yeah. And I think he was, I think it was a conscious effort to be more assertive and more confident. And I agree with you. He didn't take contact. Like, he would try to push and then he would kind of pick his spot to hit the brakes before he actually initiated contact with any of the Bulls guards. But it's something that he's working on.

So while I agree that he ultimately was a disappointment tonight, I, like I think I said in the previous episode, I don't really care too much right now if the shots fall. I want to see him be assertive and work on getting to the basket. And while he didn't really do that tonight, he just looked a little bit more comfortable. And that's a win for me. I agree with you. Not a good play. Not a good game from him tonight, but it's something.

Well, I think that's putting it lightly. Zero points in 20 minutes, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would phrase it like this. I would phrase it like this. At what point, and I'm not trying to be rhetorical, I would like you guys to answer this.

Like, at what point do the. excuses stop. Because for me, I don't want to compare him to Seku one for one, but for Seku, I found myself constantly performing these mental gymnastics for why he wasn't being assertive, why he wasn't performing when he did get the chance to play, why he just wasn't good. And with Killian, it was like, okay, well, he's coming from a much inferior league, even to the NCAA, and he didn't have much of a real offseason. So we'll give him that. That's why he looks so bad the first seven games. Then after that, it's, oh, he got hurt. He's still coming back from his injury. Now he's got a full, you know, offseason, and he played in the summer league, and he played in

preseason, and he still can't play. He only played 20 minutes in preseason. Okay, but you're, okay, yeah, I'll retract that. Let's, let's call it 20 minutes in preseason, because I think it was exactly that, but he still played in summer league. And then he comes out any zero points, like that's not normal for a top 10 pick, a year after getting drafted, to put up zero points and I'm not surprised that he put up zero points. That's not normal for anybody. No, it's not normal. Any NBA player, you give him 20 minutes in a game and he's going to probably score. I was a second round player. You're 20 minutes in a game and I could score, but I don't think I could. No, probably not. Probably not. Maybe if I was just chucking for Maff court every time.

It's so, that's my question. When did the excuses stop? I wouldn't say it's a matter of when the the excuses stuff. I would just say for me, you can say it again. It's the first game of the season. It's just really deflating to see him have absolutely no NBA skill on offense. He's just, he's just an absolute non-factor, drive halfway into the interior, get stopped, give up the ball. All you're doing there is running out the clock. Beyond that, he's just the four words that were running through my head when most of the time he was on the four and say what you will about the fact that this is running through my head.

We're rudimentary ball delivery system, which is basically all he was. Make short passes to your teammates that don't actually amount to anything. Yeah. Like here, I have the ball. I'm going to stop because I can't drive in. Would you like it? Here, here's a short pass. Take it.

And I'm just going to not be part of the play for the remainder of the possession. And that's what happened most of the time. Yeah. It was distressing. He was out there doing suicides pretty much, just a complete non-factor. I mean, we would execute a pass. It was, like you said, very rudimentary, not doing anything. The only notable positive play was the.

Stuart Lobb, but even that, it's like... It was short pick and roll. For anybody who doesn't know the term suicides, those are a form of sprints. Yeah, I would hope most people do. Just to clarify. You could call, I've heard them be called that as well. Yeah, so in any

case, yeah, it was just, I mean, here's the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario with killing him right now in the short term is either he ends up on the second unit or he ends up in the G-League. No, Pistons can, because he's only in his second season, the piss and can send them there as much as they want. So, and it's not, if this is what's to come,

then I suspect that that might actually end up being the situation. And who knows, maybe it could be good for him, but we're getting way ahead of ourselves in that case. So why don't we move on to Steve Day? I really hope that doesn't happen. Yeah, unless Tommy, you have anything further to add about Killian. Yeah, I would just say, I'm going to stick with my story of there's marginal improvement. And I really hope that if they are going to demote them,

I hope they don't send them all the way to the G League. I like the idea of him coming off the bench. Yeah, yeah, it's something that they can decide over time. But I just, I think it would be, I don't think that's going to do him any good for his confidence. Putting a zero points is not doing anything for his confidence either. Nothing has done any good for his confidence. Yeah. So, but that's, I'd like just reiterate that.

That's the worst case scenario this season is that he ends up in the G league. And that would be sad. But, you know, it is what it is. and hopefully you see improvement. Maybe he comes back next season and you see things going better. He's still young. You got rookies for four years for a reason.

And I don't see the Pistons cutting bait until maybe the trade deadline next season or thereabouts, assuming anybody would want to trade for him at that point. But yeah. So, all right, Sadiq Bay. Tommy, I know you got thoughts on him. Yeah, 6 of 15 shooting,

0,4 from 3, and I was still thrilled with this performance. Because one of the things that we talked about going into this, season was can Sadiq Bay expand beyond a 3-N-D player? And even though he ended up being fat zero from deep, he ended up contributing in more ways than just off, or not more than just shooting. He's out there knocking down mid-range.

He's using his size against guys like DeMarta Rosen back his way in. He's taking that mid-range fade away. And I know that it's not your favorite shot, Mike, but it's a legitimate weapon. And if he can shoot it at a high enough percentage, I love that shot for him. He might be one of the few guys in the league. who could actually knock that down. I trust him with that. It's a little bit concerning at this point that it's been a while

since we've seen a good shooting night from three-point range from Sadiq Bay. But I'm not too concerned about that yet. But overall, Sadiq Bay, he played a very nice game. Good defense, dishing some assists. Nice dump off passes to Stewart and the paint. So really nice game from him. Yeah, Sadiq made it all worth it for me. He was my shining light tonight.

Him and Stewart, but we'll get to Stewart either later this episode or another time. but I thought Bay was outstanding. I thought he was great. And I like Tommy that you read the stat line, which would seem very pedestrian, if not below average, if you just looked at the box score. But when you look at how he played,

you realize that if two or three of those triples fell, then you're looking at a stellar performance. And we all know, Sadieke is a lights out shooter. You know, I think it's atypical when he misses more threes than he makes. And I know it's been a little bit since he's just exploded. from range, but we all know he has it in him, so whether or not those three-point shots go in, we know that he didn't just forget how to shoot, so it doesn't really matter to me. It's not

something that's of consequence. What is of consequence is the Euro step, the mid-range fade-away, the drives, the tip-ins. I said this, I think, must have been one of my first episodes on the pod, and I think I said that Sadiq was just a scorer, you know, that's what he is. He's just a score. He finds a way to put points up, to put the ball in the hoop. And he did that tonight. You know, he showed off the diverse skill set that he's been working on. His handle looks super improved. And so if you combine the current version of Sadiq with the three point performances of last season, Sadiq, man, he's going to be, he's going to be really good. And he's already really good. So that's something to look forward to do. Yeah, I think it should be noted when we're

speaking about him not having had a good shooting night in a while. I mean, we're really just looking back to last season. In Summer League, they were really stressing the off the dribble game, the creation game. He wasn't really taking too many threes, and yeah, he didn't shoot them too well, but we know that he can shoot them. In this game, you could just really perceive, I felt the focus upon development, because he was playing very differently and was being used entirely differently from how he was utilized last season. As far as last season, basically, well, Steve, Sadiq are out in the perimeter, find a way to get open and take a shot. And Sadiq is a high IQ player.

He is wise beyond his ears as far as making the right decision. And he would find a way to get open, often to my chagrin where it's like, well, you know, opposing, you know, insert team here. Like this guy is the best shooter on the team. Why are you leaving him open? We really want to lose this game. You know, please start doing your job. So what Sadiq did.

Tonight was really just an extension. I feel like of what was done with him in Summer League. He was focusing much more on just trying to generate. And maybe I doubt this was done with an eye toward, okay, well, Sadie, we think this is the best way for you to comport yourself. If we want to win a game, I doubt that was it. But I liked what he did. You know, I'll say it again, Sadieke, just he's, you can count on him to make the right decision,

which is an excellent asset, especially for a player. who's going to be trying to create things off the fly. So, yeah, you have those mid-range stepbacks. You know, who knows? Maybe you can make those efficient. If so, great, that's a weapon. Most players can't. And we're not talking the same shot I was talking about in past episodes,

which was basically bully his way in and take a turn away, turn around fade away. That's significantly harder. But, yeah, the Euro step, time when he just, when he spun around De Rosen, to be fair, de Rozan is not a good defender. Far from it. But nonetheless, still good to see.

He took, I don't remember who it was, I think Wanzo, yeah. I just backed him up and foisted it into the basket. And then a couple of times at which he was running full speed and managed to make a good pass to Stewart. So I was happy with what I saw. Yeah, I don't care that he was inefficient. I really don't. Like you said, Dante would have been like 18 points on 15 shots

if he'd hit a couple of those threes. So, yeah, I was just really pleased with what I saw. And he's just a good player. And who knows how high his ceiling. is that's perpetually perpetually the screaming amongst us, but I had fun watching him. Yeah, I did too.

I think if anything, we can at least all agree that this performance bodes very well because it was really Isaiah Stewart who was constantly redefining his ceiling last season, but maybe now that title sort of passes to Sadiq, because if he comes out night after night and does this, it's like I said,

and like you just said too, Mike, like that three is going to fall. So when you combine those two aspects of his game, you have just such a talented player who can really be a difference maker. I don't really have much more to add other than that. Yeah, I've been happy with this because one of the things that I've noticed from just in the general team play, everybody's looking to make the right pass. Well, almost everybody's looking to make the right pass,

and everybody's looking to generate offense. And I would so badly like this team to be like the 2014 spurs. And just everybody's looking for it. Like, you have a shot. You have a shot. or I have a shot, but somebody else has a better shot, that type of offense. And when the pistons were looking to move the ball around and moving off ball, that was when the offense was at its prettiest.

Like, everybody's getting a chance to touch the ball and move it along, and you're getting really nice looks. I think it kind of fell apart in the fourth quarter when guys were looking to ISO. So I guess that's kind of where things fell apart. Can we talk about Jeremy Grant, like thinking he's in my park? Like, what was that at the end? Who, what? Mike, I know you said that Casey drew up an ISO.

I don't know if you wanted to maybe speak to what that abomination was that we saw in the dying minutes there. Yeah, that was really just a pretty unfortunate play. I feel like the way that I saw it was Corey Joseph brought the ball up the floor. And he looked to Casey, who motioned to him. He gave the ball up to Grant, Corey Joseph did, and then he got out of the way. So as far as I could tell, the play was more or less in Grant, so, which ended up with an absolutely horrible shot that should never have been attempted. I really don't know what happened there.

Unfortunately, say what you will about Duane Casey and his job is about a developmental coach, and he seems certainly during the latter stages of last season, he seemed to have done a pretty good job of that. And he has a history of it with the Raptors. So say what you will about that. He does have some strong points. Coaching down the stretch is certainly not one of them. I don't think very highly of him as a coach in terms of a team who wants to win games

in general, but obviously the pitch. really aren't in that position of trying to win games right now, but it's still frustrating to see. It has happened throughout his entire tent year with the pistons. It happens with, which was great last year, but it happens the season before that, the season before that, and it happened with Toronto. It just loses control down the stretch. So shot selection and all sorts of other stuff just went kind of down the tubes, and that included that possession from Grant.

So frustrating to see. As far as Jeremy went, it was an up and down thing for. for me. I mean, he largely performed well, but I felt like he was playing very differently from what we saw from him last season. He was settling for a lot of bad mid-range offense, for example. There's still a lot of difficult pull-up shots off the dribble, quite a bit of turnaround jumpers in the post. It was just, it was not a lot of good offense there. It was a lot of low efficiency stuff. And he wasn't really trying to pull his way into the interior and either score right at the rim or gets the line.

So I thought it was a real up and down game for him. Yeah, even in preseason, he looked better than this. I hope that doesn't continue. Even in preseason, he was having a much better time getting to the rim than this. So I don't know why he was settling for all these really tough, like leaning fadeaways. This is exactly what you said, Mike. It's classic Casey. This is what got him fired in Toronto.

And it's kind of funny that he's doing it against Demar de Rosen because that was his star pupil back then. And I just, I don't want it to happen to Jeremy Grant. One of the things that we talked about even in the last episode is that Jeremy Grant, his percentage is kind of tank at the end of games. This certainly isn't going to help him. I don't know why they opt to just go straight to ISO's down the stretch. I understand that your best player is like a guy who should be able to get his own shot. And maybe you want that to be Jeremy Grant.

But, you know, he had like three or four bulls just draped on him. Try to generate something. Don't just like telegraph that openly that you're going to have Jeremy. Grant take these shots and then make it nearly impossible for him. It's not even that it was a good shot by Jeremy Grant. It just didn't go in. It was an awful shot for anybody. Very few players in this league. That's what you want from. Yeah, exactly. You want Kauai Leonard. You want Kevin Durant taking that shot. But Jeremy Grant just hasn't proven to be that guy yet. And they talked about at the end of the game on the broadcast. Katie Cunningham is a guy who actually is pretty clutch. But even he's not

taking that type of shot at the end of the game. He's taking like from the top of the arc. He'll take like a ballsy three, but he's not taking a leaning midrange. That's just not a smart shot. So not good. And then Josh Jackson, I think we kind of have to mention, I think the turning point of this game like down the stretch was when Josh Jackson kind of reverted back to classic Josh put his head down, drove into the paint, head down, and tried to throw one up over his shoulder. And that clanked off the rim. not a good night from him either. I just feel like they kind of went back.

He had two turnovers in a row shortly before that. People are going to talk about the block, and they're going to talk about that big three that he hit, but even that three, it just wasn't a good shot. So I just don't like to see these guys reverting back to their old habits. The offense is looking so much better this year when they're actually playing together as a team and looking to make the extra pass.

So when they kind of fall back to their old habits, it's just very frustrating for all of us. Yeah, what do you guys think Casey does on that clipboard? Like, do you think he's playing TikTokto? Like, what is he doing? I think he's not doing. Yeah. I don't know what you were going to say, Mike, but I was going to say he's not making wise coaching decisions.

And he's certainly not making adjustments that are worth making, but maybe you have a more stew point to me. I would say that some coaches, especially coaches who have been in the game as long as Casey just are what they are. Casey is not a good coach in making adjustments. In fact, if you look at the long-term coaches in the league, you're almost certainly going to see him as one of the absolute worst at that. He doesn't really make in-game adjustments. And for example, Frank Jackson didn't have a good game. I mean, that is what it is. You've got to find his value on the offensive end.

He wasn't finding that value. He was defending Levine, which is an impossible. It's a very difficult assignment for anybody. It's an impossible one for Frank Jackson, who's giving up a fair amount of size, a great deal of athleticism. And it's just he was never going to do a fair job. defending Zach Levine. And Levine had 23 points by the time in the late third quarter, Dwayne Casey finally decided, okay, maybe we put Jeremy Grant on him instead. It's just these adjustments. And when it comes to the end of games, Casey just doesn't know how to keep it together.

Like with Grant there, dude, this is a critical possession. Call a timeout. Don't just say, okay, Jeremy, take the ball in ISO. And then part of that is on Grant, too, for not passing the ball, but it's like call a timeout or in that sequence in which the pistons had two turnovers. in the late fourth quarter in a pretty small span. It's like call a time out, but instead he didn't, and they turned the ball over again. So he just routinely loses control of these. He's done it a lot of times with the Pistons.

He did it more times with the Raptors before that. So it's frustrating. For how good the defense. I still enjoyed the game, but even when the Pistons were trying to lose last season, it frustrated. For how good the defense was, that was, and even for how poor the shooting was, was a very winnable game. It's just they made some bad decisions down the stretch and it really

really came back to bite them. That's a more experienced team. They're definitely playing more like bets and they just executed better because we certainly couldn't. Casey just can't. Very frustrating, but hopefully they'll learn. We get to play Chicago again. Do you have any ideas for adjustments to be made? Yeah, on Saturday. On Saturday, yeah. But if we're going to win these tight games down the stretch, Casey's got to get a grip at the end of these games like Mike I completely agree with you in terms of him just losing control in the dying minutes here and I don't want to absolve any of the players who made poor decisions or played poorly down the stretch but Casey did not put a lot of these guys in positions to succeed

or if it's not that he didn't tell them what they needed to hear so Josh I thought was playing well and within himself for most of that game but unfortunately it doesn't matter because he reverted back to, I guess I'll call it classic Josh Jackson. And that's, that's Casey has got to take control at that point because all of the goodwill that you've built up is just gone because it's a big factor in why you lost the game. And Frank, I agree he was put into a bad position. I don't want to alleviate him of like, look, if you're the small, shifty guy who

shoots threes, you got to hit your threes. If you don't hit your threes, especially the open ones, that's on you. But Casey did him no favors either. and drawing up the ISO at the end, refusing to call timeouts. I just, man, it sure is a lot easier to pal it when it's,

oh, yeah, we're tanking. But when you want to win games, not fun. No, it's, and even last season,

there were times when I got frustrated, even when the pistons were trying, well, early in the season, like that in from this game against the Cavaliers, it's like, okay,

you're playing all veterans, and you're trying to win, and you suck it trying to win. That's insult to injury. And now a quick word from our sponsor. Another week of the NFL season means another shot to win big at Draft King's sportsbook. New customers can bet just $1 on any NFL game and win $100 in free bets if either team scores a point. The last zero-zero tie in the NFL was actually in 1943, so I'd say this is a no-brainer.

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See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details. And if you have a gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. Why don't we move on to Isaiah Stewart, who I think was another positive storyline from this game? I thought that a lot of his assets were on display. Others were notably absent. If I were talking about the absences, it's not anything that he was doing wrong. It's just that you remember times from last season in which, number one, was firing really without, I don't say without remorse. It's not the right way putting it. He was firing

without really thinking about it too much from the three point line when he was left open. Or he would get the ball on the interior, whether it was on a handoff player, whatever, left open, given a few feet of space. And he would take a mid-range jumper. And he was in a high 40s, like 49% of mid-range, I think, and decent volume. That's a good number. That is an efficient shot. So I'm kind of curious why he wasn't doing any of that in this game because, you know, aside from that one shot he took, he just didn't attempt any jumpers at all. That one almost went in. Yeah. Yeah, I have a theory on that. I think that last season, he was able to be able to be more carefree in shooting the three and shooting the midrange because he came in as a very young

and potentially perceived to be raw rookie. So when he's shooting from distance and scoring, it's like a pleasant surprise, but maybe it was such a point of emphasis in the offseason that he knows that he's now being relied upon to be a floor spacer. So maybe he feels a sense of responsibility or pressure with those shots, you know, to hit them at a high clip,

which leads to him thinking about it more, which leads to brick after brick after bricks. So I'm not saying that he's bricking all the time or anything like that, but his willingness to shoot is certainly not there like it was when he first started doing it last year. I agree with you, Mike. So maybe that's another coaching thing too.

But as much as I want to call tonight an anomaly, you know, I don't know if it was. So it's something to keep an eye on. I guess we'll see. I think honestly, he just is not all the way back yet in that accounts for something. Yeah. And that's a fair. That's fair too. Yeah.

He's still, yeah, he's almost undoubtedly still getting back in the game shape. But the thing is with Stewart, I mean, if he can make those shots, that's one of those things that can really unlock him and really help out the offense as well. If you've got a guy who you just can't leave open three-point line or even in the interior, if you have a guy who can be part of these handoff plays, then okay, there might be no handoff, but you still have to stick close to him. You know, that opens up guys. Not only can you make those shots, it opens up the guys who are, you know, who are going to be around running on those handoff plays. So, whatever the case, we'll see what becomes of that. But as far as what he did well, he did

plenty well. I mean, that was just an observation, really. I thought he had a strong game. And he's continued to refine himself as a shooter underneath the basket. He got the ball several times in disadvantageous situations, just kept his composure, found a good position, and put the ball in. That was nice, certainly. Strong on the boards, as ever. Strong as a defender, you really saw this solidness we've spoken about before when it comes to Stewart. He has not easily moved by anyone, which is definitely an asset. Vujovic had quite a bit of trouble against him because Vujavich, who's a big guy, is used to just being able to either push people toward the basket or always put his

shoulder in and get a bit of movement before he takes a shot. He was just putting his shoulder in the Stewart, and Stewart was barely moving, and Vujavich's shot was repeatedly falling short. So, yeah, there's a lot to like always about Isaiah Stewart. And I thought, I think, like I said, I don't think he's all the way back in terms of his conditioning, but I thought he had a pretty strong game nonetheless. Yeah, I think this was one of the more advantageous matchups for Isaiah because Wuchovich, he's not, well, I know he's a floor spacer, but Isaiah played him pretty

well defensively from close and from distance. So the concerns for Isaiah for me are still just going to revolve around his jump. Like Andre Drummond is a guy who can jump out of the gym. He had a much better time against Isaiah. Isaiah really, he's going to have a better time defending guys when you're still on the floor battling for a position. Once somebody's trying to roll past him, usually like a good rim running center can elevate straight over Stewart. That's going to be the problem. But Vouchvich, not really that guy.

He's kind of the guy who is, he plays a game more similar to Stewart. So it was really more about their skill matchup tonight. And I thought, like you said, you couldn't move Isaiah. Or Vooch couldn't move Isaiah. and that's that's the ideal situation for Isaiah because when there's guys who are just going to be able to elevate over him, that's when he's going to struggle. So these are the matchups I want to see what he can do in terms of getting offense against guys where you're still battling on the ground. When it's above the rim, that's where I think he's going to struggle more.

So I'm enjoying this matchup and I'm not surprised that he did well today. Yeah. Yeah, it tends to be it's, I don't think it's a sort of ruin. weakness, weakness by any means, yeah, it does hurt a little bit. He's,

last season compensated for it pretty well, I think that's, that weakness and verticality, just by means of positioning. Also, it helps that he's very good to defending in space in general and knowing where to be recovering

off coverage from pick and rolls, even just being able to get, you know, to ends up in between the two defenders, the role man, and the ball handler, he just knows where to go. And so there are just a variety of things

that will help him against above the rim players. However, yeah, it's going to be a weakness of his. You can't just say, okay, Isaiah, jump higher. But, you know, I just thought it was a strong game for him, you know, in any capacity. I'm just looking forward to and hoping that we get to the point where he can, well, speaking on offense, start shooting the ball well again. Because I think that he can be a top 10 center in the league. I think that's going to be just an absolutely key factor in it, though. Yeah, no, I completely agree with everything you guys have said. And I think that, Mike, made a good point in that Stewart makes up for his lack of vertical explosiveness, much in the same

way that Sadiq makes up for his, you know, straight line speed deficiency. And that's positioning, you know, that's having a high basketball IQ, knowing where to be choosing a good spot on the floor, anchoring yourself and making sure that you're the immovable object. And Vucovich was really struggling against him tonight on both ends of the floor. And I left a comment in the in the post-game thread, but this is something I really believe. I think that Stewart's touch around the rim, especially for being 20, is like special. I really do. The way that he's able to adjust his shot on the fly to account for, you know, errant arms coming in trying to block him, bodies flying everywhere. His touch is just very soft, you know, very graceful. And it looks smooth.

And looking smooth usually means that it's replicable. You know, it's not a fluke when he scores these. He's just really special around the rim. So I think, and that this is what I said in my comment, was that if he's able to get even marginally good positioning, let alone perfect positioning down low, let's just call it marginally good positioning. I think that he should be one of the primary options on offense. Honestly, I think that Stewart post touches are efficient uses of possessions. And I think he can easily be a top 10 center if we start to make use of or at the very least empower his skill set.

Yeah, I don't know about one of the primary options, but I think he is a guy to whom you can dish the ball inside and expect him to do something with it on decent efficiency. I've been on and on about postplay and how many guys can actually, the NBA can actually make postplay worthwhile. I don't think Stewart's a guy who's going to see it on high volume, but he is a capable post player. He showed that last year. And more of the point, he, unlike, whatever, unlike, say, Andre Drummond, for example,

who is the most egregiously bad example of this, he knows when to try it and what not to. He's got a good hat in his shoulders in general. just good judgment overall. But I really, I think, I'll say it again, I think his conditioning just isn't all there yet. And I think we'll see continued improvement from him as the season goes on. Now, this is a bit of an ace. I'd mean not to spend too much time on this, but I know that there's been some talk.

We had Omari Sankovic, say there, some others, I don't remember who else, that's, you know, conceivably, who knows if things remain icy, between the Sons and D'Andre Aiton. I'm just, this comes to mind just because Aiton is also a center. You know, do you see the Pistons sending an offer sheet his way in the offseason? And my answer to that would be no for a couple of reasons. Number one, well, Aitin isn't a max player right now. I think that's largely what his sons didn't offer him that contract.

Now, if Aidan is a max player, come the end of the season, Phoenix will pay him. If he still isn't that max player, the Pissons have no reason to offer him a max contract. And if he signs anything less than a max offer sheet, then Phoenix will match. So I don't think there's anything there. But also, I think Isaiah Stewart in the long term will be a good starting center who can probably had at a price much, much lower than a max. And that's nice to have at that position. going for a truly elite talent of which there are maybe like five or six,

if you count Anthony Davis at center where apparently it's going to be playing more this season. Beyond that, it's not really worth giving that much money to your center. Yeah. Do you guys have any thoughts about that? It's just entirely my sojourn off the beaten path of this discussion. No, I think it's a valid thing to bring up in the context of the Isaiah Stewart discussion.

But look, I'll put it this way. I'm always, always, always, always interested in good players. I'm especially interested in good young players. I think D'Andre Aitin is a good young player. Is he the max player that, you know, Phoenix was hoping that he would be when they picked him first overall? At this point, probably not. And I agree with you, Mike. If he's not that guy, I don't think the Pistons really stand to benefit all that much

from paying him all that money to not be that guy. and I don't think Stuart, I think it's wishful thinking to think that he can reach the ceiling that Aiton can reach or even be as good as Aten is right now. But he can be more than serviceable. He can be, in my opinion, a top 10 center. And if you're not paying him too, too much,

you know, that's probably better in the recipe for a championship team than handing a boatload of cash to Aiton. So that's probably where I stand on that. Unless something significantly changes, I don't really see it materialize. In the context of Isaiah Stewart, I just think that this team, more and more I'm reminded of the fact that we just need a guy who can actually elevate above the rim. As much as I love Isaiah, it's not just like, from a win the game perspective, guys who can catch lobs and elevate are just fun to watch. And I just miss that a lot.

And that's one of the things I loved about Christian Wood. He played with just so much lift, and that was a lot of fun. And Aiton is a guy who can do that. and while I'm not married to the idea of Aiton, just maybe in a more broad discussion, finding a guy who either at the four or five can be a lob threat. Just find a guy like that. Maybe it's Paula Bunkero in the next draft. I don't know who else would fit next to Stewart, but a guy who can space the floor,

but also be a capable role, man. That's what I want. And if Aiton is that and Isaiah Stewart just isn't going to be that guy in the future, maybe that's a discussion worth having, but I don't know Aiden's game well enough to pick it one way or the other. That's fair. Aten is very athletic.

I'm sure we can catch Wabs. I mean, maybe we should make this an episode about DeAndre Aten. My opinion to him right now isn't particularly high, certainly in the context of, you know, give me a max contract, a five-year max. I don't think he deserved that. And I think he'll ultimately end up staying with the, with the Rockets anyway, but not the Rock, excuse me, the Sons.

So whatever the case, yeah, there is, blobs are a good option to have. I just think when it comes down to, like I say, you can have a top 10 center on Isaiah Stewart who is, and let me preface this, there is an elite, a very elite group of centers, like the top five, maybe the top six. Again, if you include Davis and if Auto Bio really gets to where people think he will be, those are the elite group.

I mean, the rest of the top 10, those are very good players, but not great. but if you've got a guy who can stretch the floor, who's a very capable defender, just a great effort guy with very good intangibles like Stuart, you can pay him like $16 million a year. I mean, that's a great value, provided you have those takeover scores elsewhere. But as long as we're talking about Stewart a bit,

why don't we move on to Olinick, who I thought had a pretty strong game overall. His shot from the perimeter wasn't following, but I was impressed with his passing. Yeah, I thought Olinic. got a strong game. I think that just he just adds a completely different dimension to the offense, you know, especially compared to what Mason Plumley brought. So I wouldn't say I have too much to say on them other than I'm proud to share a country with someone who can space the floor

at the five. Yeah, is there anybody else from, there are any other stretch fives from Canada? I don't like stretch five. I hate that term. Anyway, yeah, this is a question. We'll have to thoroughly research later on. Tommy, what do you think about to have a winning performance? Yeah, Sam is down to. I wasn't paying too close, putting too much attention on him, but I did notice that the offball movement with him and Corey Joseph on the floor was excellent, like better than I've seen the Pistons play in a long time.

And that's one of the most fun brands of basketball. So going into the rest of the season, all 82 games, I hope that's something that they continue to do. Just keep playing, keep putting in the effort off ball. that's how Steph Curry gets open, even though he's getting hounded for 30-something minutes a game. And that's how you get open looks. So those guys set that example, and I hope they continued to do so throughout the season. Yeah. Corey Joseph also at a fairly weak game, definitely still a very good perimeter defender, though.

I'd absolutely give that to him. I mean, the Pistons overall, just the point guard play wasn't there at all of this game. I mean, it was as far as penetrating, breaking down the defense and creating options. I mean, you're really counting on guys just creating offense for themselves. And obviously, Sadiq did a decent job of creating offense for himself, granted a decent job, creating offense for himself. You know, Stewart was a strong scorer inside. And Olinick, if he just said, you know, one or two of his threes would have had a good scoring night. What I was impressed with with Olinick was just that he can put the ball on the floor and make a play for somebody else.

And he saw a couple times tonight, one in particular, when he managed to get onto a mismatch. inside and draw foul. He's good at finding those. But yeah, tonight you just, it was just, it was an ugly game in terms of point guard play. And it was bad. It was bad. No, it was really, really bad. And I think that we've sort of arrived in a in a pretty roundabout way, sort of the last thing that I wanted to bring up to kind of sum up the game tonight. And that's, we could really use Cade right now. I think that these dying minutes here when we desperately need someone to step up and make a play, especially when Casey has lost control for the millionth time at the end of a game during the season. I think it becomes Cade time, you know, as great as Grant is, I don't think he's

that guy. I don't think Bay is that guy. I don't think Stewart is that guy. Killian Hayes is definitely not that guy. But at the end of these games here, you know, this is. where Cade Cunningham shines. And I think that you sort of saw the role that he could potentially fill. And the expectations I realize are through the roof. I'm asking a guy who's never played an NBA minute to be the clutch score, to be the one that you turn to, to put up points when you need the most. But use the number one overall pick. You know, that's what I expect. That's what I want. And we could have really used it. And he can generate offense, which we desperately need. Yes. And he can do that it's always helpful in basketball.

Yeah, very helpful. That is fairly helpful. At my final points, and I mean, I know I didn't speak too well from him. And this is his preseason performance. And I also didn't think too highly of how he played tonight was about Hamadu. I'll say two things. Number one, the guy is just still incredibly raw. Number two, he is a tank.

And I continue to be intrigued by his absolutely amazing athleticism. This guy's in a 99 percentile of athletes in an incredibly athletic league. But, you know, more and more just from preseason than the first game, I think he might just continue to be another year away. But I suppose we'll see as the season goes on. He managed to make a couple of plays, just a couple of M-ones tonight. I think one additional trip to the free throw line. But just altogether, I mean, it was basically tonight. It was Sadiq and Jeremy and Isaiah.

And to a lesser extent, Kelly Olinick, and nobody else. Like, just nobody else. No. Yeah, the more I think about it, the kind of the kind of ugly the memory becomes, but it was still a game I enjoyed. I had two expectations for the Pistons tonight, that they would play an NBA regular season game, and that it wouldn't be a train wreck. And those two conditions were absolutely met, so I feel pretty good. You're a psychic. Good call.

Thanks. Yeah, I really should have laid down a couple of bets. I don't know what the money line is. not a train wreck. I don't know who's even taking that bet, but. Fair enough. Yeah. All right.

Any of you guys have any final thoughts before we wrap up? No, I think that that's it for me. I think I think we covered everything. Man, can we win on Saturday? That would be nice. That's my final thought. Yeah. That would be fun to watch.

Other than that, nothing had. I think I got, this was very cathartic for me. Great. All right, folks. Well, thank you for listening to our, very first episode of the 2021, 2022 NBA regular season. There are many more to come. And so we will catch you in our next episode.