Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 71: Are the Pistons Developing? Cade and Frank’s Big Night, Jerami’s Struggles, and More

Episode Date: November 20, 2021

This episode speaks more on Cade Cunningham's continued success, explores Hamidou Diallo's emergence in the rotation, and discusses Frank Jackson's improvements. We also touch on the ongoing struggles of Saddiq Bey and Killian Hayes (and what's to be done about those), Isaiah Stewart's injury and its potential impact upon an already weak center rotation, and more.

Welcome, everybody to drive into the basket. It's part of the basketball podcast network. I am Mike, joined as ever by Tommy and Dante. Fellas, what's new, I suppose? Dante, I know you had a rough night watching the pistons play against the Pacers when you actually had to compliment Corey Joseph. I can imagine how painful that must have been for you. You know, it's always nice when you just trash a player and they prove you wrong.

I don't know if I want to say prove me wrong, but he had a great game. You know, Corey had a great game against the Pacers, and it's always nice when a player succeeds, and that extends to Frank Jackson, too, stellar performance tonight. And that's someone that I was critical of recently as well. So I've determined that the only plausible route forward is to trash every player on the team every single night.

That's clearly the only, that's the means of success here. It's a radical strategy, but it just might work. Tommy, what do you think? 100%. Yeah. I think that's a great idea. Take one for the team and just start trashing everybody. Talk about how Cade Cunningham isn't actually a good player. And we got a rookie of the year lockdown. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, you never know, I guess. I'm not going to join you in any case. Let's start out with something positive for the evening. For me, that's that's Hamadu Dielo. So Hami has replaced Josh Jackson on the rotation. That's nice for two reasons.

Number one, I still think pretty highly of Hamidu. And I'm not sure if we discussed this kind of mini blowout with Casey. We discussed that in the last episode or the episode before. I can't remember. Yeah, I think we talked about, I said a couple of things about how you were screaming at Casey, but we didn't go in depth with it. We could if we feel it's necessary, but obviously things have changed to the point where he's in the rotation.

Yeah. So he's replaced Josh Jackson in the rotation. You know, I've seen it suggested that this is showcasing him for trade. I don't think that's true for a couple reasons. Number one, if it were true, Dwayne Casey, would probably not be shoving him at the right corner and doing nothing with him on offense. Number two, I mean, all Hamidu is doing is showing that this team needs him.

He's incredibly athletic on a team that is very unathletic. He's good at dribble penetration on a team that has very little of it. He's a good rebounder. He's, yeah, I mean, he's been playing well. I've been happy with him. Those of you are a long time listeners know that I think highly of Hamadu's ceiling. He's been a good, defender too. The two games he's been on the rotation. I mean, I've got no complaints. I mean,

the guy is super athletic. He stays with people really well. He's got a little bit of work to do on his off-ball awareness, but I've been happy. Also, Josh Jackson being out of the rotation is good, too. The guy is just an eyesore. Yeah, I would agree with you, Mike. I think that I'm a big fan of Homi, too. I always have been. And I mean, I guess that preseason performance sort of weighed a little heavier than any of us thought it was going to. I mean, he didn't look good, but I didn't expect him to fall out of the rotation completely. So that aside, it's nice that that's corrected.

And I use the term corrected because it was definitely a mistake. I mean, out of Josh, Hami, and Frank, I would say that Josh and Frank have been really poor for most of the season. Obviously, Frank Jackson tonight excluded. I never understood why Casey wouldn't turn to Hami sooner. But how much can you really complain when he clearly has and I also agree with you too. I don't think that he's expressly playing him for the sake

of showcasing him for a trade. I think he's playing him because his hand was sort of forced and some shakeups needed to be made. And at the end of the day, Diallo adds a dimension that nobody else does. He's the best athlete on the team by magnitudes. He adds a level of verticality that really no one else has. And he's super fast. So these are a whole bunch of things that not a whole lot of people in the regular rotation are offering, unfortunately. So even though we lost tonight, just barely, I would say that the offense still wasn't great, but it definitely looked better with Diallo. So as things stand,

what term do I want to use? I say satiated. I'm satiated right now. Yeah, just for a context, we're recording a few hours after the end of the Golden State game, which the Pistons lost by a bare amount on a pop-out three at the end. So, yeah, I've just been happy to see him in the rotation. I wish Casey would use him more.

I mean, we saw glimpses at the end of the last season, but unfortunately he's not being utilized in that capacity when he's on the floor. Strong on ball attacker has work to do on his shot without a doubt. It doesn't seem to have done much. I think there's pretty clearly some maturity issues there. But the guy's got a lot of potential. So I'm real happy to see him in the lineup, and I'm done with Josh Jackson. I mean, who knows, maybe the guy could abruptly improve, but I don't see it happening. He's more or less what he was last season with less turnovers.

and that's still not a good player. Tommy, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I don't have a ton to say about Hamadu Diallo. Truthfully, I didn't pay too much attention to him tonight. What I really want from him is shoot the three and affect the game that way, because right now he's still a limited usage role player, and primarily he needs to be a floor spacer, make things easier for the guys around him.

Right now, he's doing some nice things individually, and he's showing talent, but it doesn't matter too much to me if he's not playing within the offense and spacing the floor. And I think that takes us on to Frank Jackson because I actually think he's quietly gotten better over the past like three or four games. And then tonight he really stepped out and maybe you could call it a breakout game after this like shooting slump that he's had to start the season. But great performance by him tonight. He took some big shots, rimmed out that last three at the end to tie the game. but overall, very happy with what we've seen from Frank Jackson lately. I think he is really more deserving of the backup two guard minutes.

Oh, yeah, Hamadu would be, I believe he's being played at backup small forward, where Josh Jackson was playing. So, yeah, it's, Frank's done well, definitely. Last five games, actually, up until tonight. As the last four, he was shooting about 45% from three and averaging little 11 points. So that number went up tonight, needless to say. I mean, hand it to the guy. He is a good, quick trigger three-point shooter when he's hitting his shots, of course.

Definitely started slow, but some players do. I don't know how many of you guys, for those of you been watching the Pistons for a while, watched Reggie Bullock start slow, like horrendously slow in four straight seasons, three or four. Yeah. I forgot about Bullock. Oh, man, he was a horrifically slow starter. Like terrible. I do remember that. Yeah, terrible in the first few weeks of the season.

So who knows? But yeah, quick trigger guy, excuse me. Those of you hear my voice, you can probably tell that I'm just getting over sickness here. So bear with me. But quick trigger. He's kind of sneaky athletic and attack the basket a bit. A good jumper. And definitely works hard.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. If he keeps this up. Yeah, if he keeps this up, I'd like to see him moving into the starting lineup in place of Hayes, from we'll talk about later, but with whom I've just gotten increasingly frustrated. Oh, I'd rather have my little sister in the starting lineup instead of Hayes. So I don't think that that's a big, that's a bold statement. But as far as who it would be, yeah, I mean, if Frank keeps it up, I don't see why not.

I, you know, I've been, out of the three of us, I've been the most critical of Frank. I think it's two or three episodes in a row where I've sort of been like, what was going on here? Like, is Frank an NBA player or isn't he? and I think that tonight was really important for him. I was watching it with a big smile on my face because he was just, man, he was hitting from all over the place, he was finishing at the basket, he was playing good defense,

he was jumping passing lanes with more frequency than I think I've ever seen from him, and really elevating at the rim too, which led to quite a few free throws, if I remember correctly. So just a great performance all around. And the thing with Frank, which I still, you know, despite the performance tonight, I have no problem maintaining this. He doesn't have the pedigree to be shooting,

as poorly as he's been shooting. He owes it, not owes it, but he, for his career, he needs to shoot well. He needs to be consistent. He needs to be impactful more often than he's not impactful. And tonight was a good first step towards that, you know. And if Frank is playing well and shooting the ball nicely, then everybody benefits from that.

And I think it bears mentioning, too, that by all accounts, Frank is a really good guy and a really good teammate. There was, I don't know if the two of you guys watch this, but there was a YouTube series. It was called something like Frank, the Mountain Man or something like that. And it was talking about how Frank lives a very isolated and secluded lifestyle on a mountain in a cabin.

Like that's just what he does. Right. You up in Utah in the off season? I do remember those. Yeah, up in Utah. And I was watching and I was like, this is kind of an odd guy, but it came across very likable in that.

So if you haven't seen that, I urge you to go watch it, just search it up on YouTube. But yeah, when Frank is doing good, the three of us are happy. The team is performing. better. Not good enough to win, clearly, but better. So let's hope he keeps it up.

Yeah, definitely. And I mean, if he can hit those threes of, I mean, motion three-point shooters are so, so valuable. And you almost kind of have to have one on the starting lineup these days. It just adds so many defensive options for you, even just the threat of it can, of just running a guy around the screen, can open things up for other players off the ball. or even on the ball. So, yeah, that would be fantastic. And of course, you know, another positive continues to be a positive as Cade who just continues to impress for all that's been set, well, really all that's been said about him having the clutch gene is absolutely accurate. Now, he really just does turn it on. It was really disappointing for me that he did not get the

ball on the last play tonight. I thought that was egregiously bad. I didn't think it was that bad. I mean, they clearly ran action to get Jeremy Grant open. and he took a it was not heavily it wasn't very well contested it was a good shot and they got the offensive rebound and frank jackson he's the hot hand all all night and uh i'm i'm happy with that shot i remember seeing that kade wasn't headed out to the three point line he was headed inside i think to go for the rebound uh if there was time left no he was calling for it i was straight for him didn't grant first try a shot under the basket a two-point or under the basket i'm pretty sure he did that's not a good shot I mean

he ran under the basket yeah for a layup he was clapping his hands we'll have to go back and watch the tape but Cade was very clearly clapping his hands behind the three point line if I remember Are you talking about when they initially brought it over the time out or

no no they inbounded it Kate inbounded it Grant took it and immediately went baseline and tried to go for a way up and despite the fact I mean he was having a bad game overall in field period He tried to shoot the three.

I mean, Frank Jackson was the hot hand. Grant just completely looked off of him. Cade is the team's best clutch player. Grant completely looked off of him. And, you know, before we get to Grant, yeah, Cade definitely is, I think, proven largely wrong, the concerns about him being able to get into the interior and score the basket.

Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. He's doing it with body control. The lack of burst has not been an issue at all. He's just as effective as an athletic player. Yeah. And I think he'll only continue to get up.

better with experience and and as he gets stronger of course generally plays get stronger in the offseason and yeah so it's definitely encouraging he's had a few you know three pretty done good games in a row he's kept the turnover's low and so it's it's been fun to watch without a doubt yeah yeah yeah and he's sort of in real time developing go-to moves that seem to have a higher rate of working than a higher rate of not working and those three moves i'm sure you're guys have noticed them. He's got the in and out dribble. He's got the behind the back and he's got the spin move. And those three moves never fail to impress me when he pulls them out. And every single time he does them, I think, surely this is the time where it gets shut down and it keeps not

happening. He keeps managing to get by his guys with these advanced dribble combinations that, quite frankly, are mind boggling for someone of his age. So you got to wonder, man, if this is a dude who played forward, you know, front court and was not a ball handler for the vast majority of his life. And he's still able to pull off these dribble moves. What's he going to be capable of at 23, 24, 25? Like, this is, we keep saying it and don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is just the beginning of Cade. So the fact that he's this good, this fast is better than I thought he was going to be. And I thought he was going to be, you know, pretty darn good. So things are looking up. Yeah, this is what his 10th NBA game. It's crazy to think about.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's only going to get better. Yeah, 10th game, I believe. Yeah, I think with time, I think Kate is going to be the guy who's trusted to take these shots. I think right now it is just his 10th NBA game and people really want Cade to be taking these shots.

But I think there are a lot of little things that I see that I think are pointing to long-term development. Like they're approaching this season with developmental goals in mind. So like one of the things is Killian Hayes is not really, they don't always. always have Killian or Cade on the floor. And people want that because they want the ball handling of one of those guys on the floor at all times. But I think what they're trying to do, and even though Killian ended up playing significantly

fewer minutes than Corey Joseph tonight, I think what they're trying to do with Killian, bringing him and Cade back in at the same time is they want those two guys to establish chemistry. They're treating them like the long-term fit together. And the more time that they have on the floor together, I think, is to their benefit. But I'm still not convinced that they're a good long-term fit. Who are we talking? Caden, Killian.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that they've shown absolutely nothing in the way of fit. I mean, if... Not a thing. I think that the team is trying, and that makes sense. They want to see what they have. But Killian, again, great teammate, our worker for the most part. You know, won't risk his body driving into the pain.

That's a pretty big problem. But he's been terrible. I mean, he's been a good guard defender for the most part. He got torched by Pulton night. But, like, you know, he's been a good guard defender for the most part. He's an offensive nothing. Like, we've been over it. He can't handle the ball.

I mean, as a ball handler, he is a catastrophe. Like, absolutely terrible. You know, at best, he takes a bad floater. At worst, he just dribbles away. Like, his last, I was just looking at his stats. I don't know, it was like his last five or six games, his assist percentage and turnover percentage are about equal. You know, assuming basketball reference is right about that.

But whatever the case, yeah. You look at his Toronto game, sure. 10 assists. Most of those in transition, or a lot of those in transition, the rest just through a perimeter passes in the half court, and a lot of them are just tic-tac assists. You know, pass the ball to grant, he holds it and takes the mid-range jumper, passed the ball to Stewart, and he posts, you know, when he's posted up and so on and so forth, whatever. Basically, his only utility is off the ball, for the most part in the half court, and when he's off the ball, all he can do is take spot-up threes, and he's a crappy off-ball mover. So he's not an effective spacing threat, basically, because

the defender knows. Defenders know that all they need to do is just play him closely at the three-point line. And then if he drives, they just have absolutely no respect for him. So he just doesn't, he basically does nothing. And he adds more, one more onathetic player to an unathlethyptic lineup. I think he has a little bit more benefit than that. So this, a few days ago, I had a post where I admittedly, I didn't phrase this very well. I said, killing is not a playmaker. And at least not one who generally, generates opportunities. And I got hammered for it.

And then I elaborated on it and people still didn't like it. But I do think that Killian is actually playing a role right now that is maybe best for him, given what he is right now. Because like you said, Mike, he doesn't actually- That's not saying much given what he is right now. Yeah. Yeah. But he doesn't generate offense or generate offense or opportunities on his own was really like

the base of what I was saying because that's Kade's job. and Kade does it very well. And Kian does it horribly, terribly bad. So I asked the question to somebody. I was like, as another team looking for Killing Hayes to run their offense, and I think the answer should be no, because Killion, for what he was billed to be, you know, as a pick and roll point guard, one, we don't really have a good pick and rule center to play him with.

But two, like, he's just not good at getting into the paint unless somebody else has already broken down the defense a little bit. for him. And once that happens, he's a lot more comfortable. Like he will, if the ball is, if he's receiving the ball off of broken down defense, like his defender has sagged off a little bit to help, or he's moved around off ball and he gets the ball, then he's a lot more comfortable, a lot more comfortable than he is just taking a guy straight up in the half court. So like, in transition, he's good because it's a little bit more free flowing. Off the catch he looks good because, you know, he has a little bit more space. And once that happens, he's more. He's more

comfortable pulling up from three with his feet set or driving inside and kicking it out. He's not a good driver yet, but he's more comfortable doing it. Or he makes use of his vision with a good perimeter pass, a swing pass, or a skip pass. This is a better situation for him because I don't believe that he's capable of creating offense on his own. Yeah, there's, I mean, but there's a distinction between better situation and a situation in which is actually able to be productive. Because right now it's not a situation in which.

she's able to be productive. He's very, very unproductive. Yeah. Well, that actually kind of ties into Dante. Like, I know you're not the biggest Corey Joseph fan for all the jokes we make. Would you rather have Killian Hayes running the offense or do you think it should be Corey Joseph? Like, how would you distribute those minutes? Yeah. Corey Joseph's a better player. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, like, I don't know.

Well, the thing with Corey, especially when you look at it in terms of Killian is like, yeah, I may not like Corey. You know, I may not like the fact that he's, you know, X age and I feel like he's taking developmental minutes away from whatever. But if the question is purely like in a vacuum, who's better at creating offense and who's a better basketball player? Well, it's undoubtedly Corey Joseph because Corey Joseph is an NBA player and Killian Hayes is not. Right. And even when you were talking just now, I was listening as intently as I could, but it got me thinking like when you, for as articulate and as intelligent of a basketball mind as you are, Tommy, you've got to really figure out, you've got to really, you know, know, get deep into the weeds when you talk about positives with Killian. Like, and that's what we all have to do. We have to really come up with these hyper-specific situations in which he's able to perform

to, how did you put it, Mike? There's a difference between, you know, a better situation and a good situation. Well, right? I mean, there's a good situation for him and then there's a good situation for the team. I mean, he's in exactly. He's in a situation right now in which he has hardly any responsibility, but that's because he can do very little. Like he's good on defense.

Not great. I mean, he's good. He suffers against more, immense quicker and more athletic players because he's not quick. But, and, you know, you can rack up the fouls too.

But, I mean, on offense, he's such a non-factor. And I think just to be a horrendous fit with Cade as a result, because you're basically playing four and five. Well, he,

oh, you stole my line. The next thing I was going to say was when Killian's out there, you're playing four on five. It's awful. On offense. I mean, that's literally,

I swear to God, that was the next thing I was going to say, because it's true. And this discussion we're having speaks to the broader point of that Killian is just a nothing on offense. And you're never going to field a competent offense when you have a nothing out there playing significant minutes and taking on any kind of a role, whether it's a primary initiator role or not. So to answer your question, Tommy, in a roundabout way, I'd absolutely rather Corey Joseph do it. I would rather my 78-year-old grandmother who does Pilates do it because at the very least she would know not to take crappy floaters. at least I think she would.

I haven't talked for in a while. She's probably mad at me that I haven't called her. But when I do call her, I'll call my grandma and they'll caution her on the floaters. How is her for her? How's my grandma's floater? I don't know. She really just makes risotto and all that stuff.

So I haven't tested her one-on-one on the court. But I can imagine she's more athletic than Hayes. She's probably a better ball handler. Yeah, I wanted Monacoats. I compromised. Yeah, Monaco, I said. So, yeah, what a soprano's reference there. But, yeah.

Yeah, so, yeah, Kalyan just as far as this half-court offense just doesn't happen. In transition, he doesn't playmaker, and you can hit the odd catch and shoot three. But, yeah, and just in the half-court, he really just does hardly anything. And you can't have to play. Yeah, yeah, they're planting him in the corners right now. And I don't think that's, again, it's given what he is right now. I don't think that's the worst thing for him because he seems more comfortable with that shot. And if he is able to just hit that catch-and-shoot three ball consistently enough to get on the scouting report,

court and draw one defender honestly. At least he's not a net negative. You know, that's really... Oh, I disagree. I think he's still a net negative. He's still a net negative because even if you hit your open three's an average rate, you're still a zero. No, no, no.

I don't agree with that. The reason I'm saying, you know, if he can hit three on open threes on volume, then great. The reason I'm saying he's still net negative is because he's a really crappy off ball mover. He doesn't get open of his own accord. He's not quick. He's not particularly shifty off the ball. I mean, for the most part, he's just,

standing still. That hardly makes meek, honestly, in this offense. I mean, maybe that's a little bit of a turning point. Yeah, but he was like that last year. Well, let's finish up on Killian, I guess. Yeah, I mean, there's that. I'm just saying, like, I want to bring up the Lonzo comparison, which has been brought up a lot.

Like, Lonzo, number one, he hits, he hits his threes on high volume, his catch and shoot threes. Number two, though, he's super fit dependent. I mean, Wanzo succeeds when he plays along a couple of, athletic elite playmakers. Oh, excuse me, not playmakers, elite creators was Ingram. And I think I said this in the last episode. I was Ingram and Zion in New Orleans.

Now it's DeRose and Zagliane. And then being athletic outweighs his own unathleticness, so to speak. But also just they create the space for him. And he doesn't need to do anything besides shoot those three. Yeah. So I mean, Wanzo Ball. would not be like a good fit on this team by any means. Yeah, so Kalyan, I mean, we can move on to another player with whom I know we have all

been unsatisfied as Jeremy Grant. Yeah. Yeah, I've just perceived him as he just seems kind of listless and much less interested in him was last season. It takes a lot of bad shots. Doesn't work as hard on defense as we're accustomed to seem. He hasn't been a good defender and makes bad decisions and is a black hole. Yeah.

He's currently averaging about 18 points on pretty poor efficiency. And it just makes a lot of infuriating decisions. Yeah. So I guess you could start that conversation with, pardon me, we've had this back and forth, I guess, on what is Jeremy Grant on a championship team? Like, what option is he? And it kind of goes back and forth between second and third option. I think right now he should be a third option because that one game that he had where

he dropped like 30 was it 35 or something i don't remember what it was uh he was playing yeah he was playing a much more i don't want to say subdued role but his shot selection was just a lot better he was playing a lot more within the offense he's not taking bad shots not taking a ton of isos i think he took three of them and he was still knocking them down but right now he just he's gotten irritatingly predictable on isolations like he plants himself at the top of the arc and then he just starts dribbling and it's like you know that he's sizing his defender up and he's trying to get the guy leaning and create a little bit of space and he's going to pull up for like a 19 footer and it's it's just infuriating because it's not good offense and you have kate cunningham who can actually

create in the half court why are you going back to jeremy grant isos unless it's in the unless they're just trying to develop him into a star score i just don't see the point of it and i don't think jeremy grant has really proven to be good enough or projects to be good enough to be a guy who you trust to take the Kevin Durant role. He's just not unstoppable. Yeah, hardly anybody can make that shot efficient. And Grant, I mean, for the record right now is shooting prior to the night. He was shooting 32% on his mid-range.

And it's not a pull-up two bonus. That's needless to say, terrible. That's even worse than his 36% from last season. He's attempted already 75 mid-range shots, even prior to the night. In 13 games, he'd attempted 75 mid-rain shots. And he had converted those 32% also. So, I mean, part of this is because he's playing under a coach. This is Dwayne Casey, who for his entire career as a coach, has let his favorite go-to options do whatever they want.

Except for that one year when Nick Nurse was running the offense. Even then, Casey kind of reverted to it during the postseason. This does not help Jeremy Grant, who really should have a shot selection tailored much more closely. He should be driving to the net and he should be taking threes. I think these mid-range pull-ups are terrible. And also he needs to learn to pass the ball off the drive. Yep. He's not doing that either.

Yep. No, he's not doing any of those things. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's a whole other thing. Totally black holes right now on offense. And it's just really, really rough because it's not a driving kick and swing offense. It's driving kick until it gets to one of those two guys.

And then it stops. And it's just very frustrating. And the off ball movement from pretty much everybody outside of Frank Jackson and Kate Cunningham is awful. Yeah. That was part of the reason why the Warriors looked so good out there. And our defensive rotations looked as bad as I've been all year. Well, actually, I shouldn't say it that way. Because otherwise, I think our defensive rotations have actually been pretty good.

But tonight, they were really bad because the Warriors were just slicing us up. No. Steve Kerr. I mean, Steve Kerr is a great coach, especially on offense. He's a fantastic coach. Yeah. Yeah. We should not have lost that game.

No, no, it's unacceptable. It really is. Like, I don't care if you're in the middle of a rebuild or not. At a certain point, it's like, come on, guys. Like, this is the Warriors bench here we're talking about. Not exactly a team known for just depth one through 15. So at a certain point, you've got to win these games. And I think I read a tweet that said something like the Pistons Brass were expecting to win tonight.

So they've probably left pissed off. But it's like, I guess just to finish up on Grants, I think the two of you put it very, very well. and probably what gets me the most with him. What's the most frustrating is what Tommy said, and that's the decision making. He's become incredibly predictable, so much so that it's not even just the long two. He actually does the exact same size up every single time.

It's Tommy, if you guys have heard this, dribble up, hesitation, hang dribble, through the legs, through the legs, hang dribble,

long two. That's what he does every single time. He's got him in selfish. A little bit, yeah. Selfish and, predictable makes for a bad combination. You know who else is selfish and predictable?

Josh Jackson has found himself out of the rotation and I'm not suggesting that that's going to happen to Grant because Grant is a much better player than Josh. But I think his optimal role would be hovering between that two and three scoring option on a championship team. If he just plays like he played last year with more of a Denver Nuggets Jeremy Grant role where he just adds in maybe three, four drives to the net every game. If he does that, I think he could average 20 or. close to 20.

Maybe. On decent efficiency. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe being a key word, but decent efficiency, whether it's 17, anywhere between 17 and 20 points, he's being very, very helpful. And I think he can be helpful. But if that decision making stays as incompetent as it's been, and you know, Casey's not

going to do anything about it because Casey loves it, then I don't know. You know, I don't know. It's not like I can pull him aside and talk to him. Maybe my nona can. But other than that, I mean, somebody's got to get it through his head that these long twos are just not working. So until that happens, he's going to remain an inefficient negative on offense. Yeah, I mean, I think the question of where he would fall on a good team, I mean,

I've said it before. If you want to win a championship, basically in a normal circumstances, you've got to either have two superstars or a superstar and two pretty darn good, or two all the stars. I don't think Jeremy Grant would even be in the latter category. I don't think even be number three, maybe number three in the two superstar team. It's been asked, you know, wasn't he the third option on the 2020 Nuggets Western Conference team? The answer is no. Jeremy Grant's role in that offense was to finish offense.

It was just to finish opportunities created for him by others, the primary creators in that team. Murray and Yokic in the starting lineup and off the bench, Monti Morris and Michael Porter, Jr., who basically out-contributed Grant despite playing, like, I don't know, somewhere between 10 and 15 Westmanets per game. So I think, I mean, there are the rumors about, you know, the Pistons having engaged with the Sixers on, you know, Trey Talks, which I don't really take super seriously. And I don't think the Sixers would take that package anyway. But just for, you know, the sake of contextualizing Grant, if you put on the Sixers, I think he would be the fourth or fifth option in that starting line up. Certainly Embed is ahead of him. Tobias is ahead of him. Tobias is a better score than Grant. Seth Curry has been excellent.

He's ahead of Grant. And Maxie has been very good. He might be ahead of Grant. So you have a very good team, like not a powerhouse on, you know, in which he might be like the like the 3B or the fourth or the fifth option of the starting lineup. You know, I just think that contextualizes Grant pretty well. He has potential as a dynamic score. Like he has a, he had real talent driving into the paint line.

year and finishing in difficult situations. Like he doesn't have to be a very limited player. It's just he needs to tailor his perimeter stuff and then attack the basket like he did last season. Like the big concern last year was, wow, Jeremy Grant is attacking the room really hard and he's falling down. Don't get injured. And again, don't get injured.

But this season, he's just like, he is settling for the most inefficient form of basketball that you can play. And it's not what we need right now. I don't know if they're just trying a bunch of things. of different things and then they're going to tailor it down the line because it's a developmental year. I know that's frustrating to watch, but we're, what, a fifth of the way through the season? Maybe they just want to see what they have, but I don't know. It doesn't look promising, and I hope that they cut it out soon. Yeah. So, I mean, I wouldn't count on it, to be honest,

because Dwayne Casey just doesn't do this with his favorite players. He just doesn't really seem to coach shot selection for them at all. He doesn't seem to coach shot selection. I mean, in Some of his favorite players have been basically role players. He gets to do whatever they want. He doesn't even coach shots election for Trey Liles, who should never be attacking the basket unless he has an open lane. So in any case, we can move on. We saw it.

What? Oh, no, let's talk about Stewart. Yeah, let's talk about Stewart. And now a quick word from our sponsor. Another week of the NFL season means another shot to win big at Draft King's Sportsbook. New customers can bet just one. $1 on any NFL game and win $100 in free bets if either team scores a point. The last zero zero tie in the NFL was actually in 1943.

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So download the Draft King Sportsbook app now. use promo code TPPN, throw down $1 on any NFL game, and win $100 in free bets if either team scores a single point. That's promo code TPPN this week at Draft King's Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Must be 21 or older in New Jersey, Indiana, or Pennsylvania only, new customers only, minimum $5 deposit and $1 wager required. One per customer, restrictions apply. See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details. and if you have a gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. Yeah, so Stewart, we saw sustain an injury, which has not,

I mean, I would imagine they're doing MRI tomorrow, and we'll hear more about it then. He was brought back to the bench and made questionable with an ankle injury. If it's bad, highly unlikely that that would have happened, but you might see him out for some sustained period. I really didn't like, I said this last episode, I wouldn't like that Weaver did not sign just a half-decent third-string guy who can, at least just catch Wabs and score on the paint.

I guess this team has nothing for center depth right now. Like, Trey Wiles is bad, and Garza tries his hardest, but you saw again tonight. It's really tough for him to play defense. So, but, I mean, we can come back to Stewart. I've been very unimpressed with his overall performance this season. It's been very disappointing. is just if you can shoot he's more palatable right now it's just it's like you said Tommy last the last episode that Cage is looking to lob it to somebody and Stewart just can't do it

neither can anybody else pretty much or horribly anybody yeah the I would say probably probably regarding the injury it's I'm not a doctor but it looks like a probably like a grade two ankle sprain I've had so many of those you guys have no idea like when I saw his ankle twist I just cringe for the guy because those are not long-term injuries. Like I wouldn't be surprised if the most that he misses is a game, maybe two games, and he might not even miss any. But when that happens, the pain is unbearable. Like tears in your eyes, even if you're a grown man, unbearable.

So I felt bad for him. I hope he feels better soon because that does suck. But as far as his overall play, I think Casey bears a lot of the blame again. And it's not to alleviate Stewart of all responsibility because he says, certainly hasn't stepped up and we've needed him to. But I think when you look at Stewart, really it's a simple cost benefit analysis and you look at him and you go, okay, you're playing him at center because you've got grant at the four. So Stored is your five. He's severely undersized at like six, eight and a half-ish. And he's an incredibly poor

vertical athlete. You know, those things are all true. So those are the costs of having him on the floor. Those are supposed to be offset by the fact that he is supposed to be developing into an elite defender and the fact that he can space the floor from three and from the midrange. But when you're not using him as a floor spacer, like he's probably taken, I don't know, six or seven jump shots all season, what you're really doing is just shoehorning him into that traditional center rule. And as we've already established, the traits that make a good traditional center, which is already a dying, you know, archaic archetype to begin with, he doesn't possess them. So when he's not spacing the floor, he's just being forced to be a pretty,

poor, mediocre center. So I almost wonder if really the only solution to these woes is to fundamentally change his role. And I'm curious to know what the two of you think about that. So just to clarify my stance, I'm not giving up on him as a player. But I think if we're going to see some success again, he needs to be used radically differently. I think last season, kind of in retrospect, I mean, we all thought very highly of Stewart

last season just as kind of in his good defender. I mean, he was developing into a floor space or it looked like, but also just sort of an intangibles guy who just made everybody around him better. But in retrospect, I think that some of his deficiencies were hidden by playing off the bench. You know, less minutes, better matchups. And Plumley isn't a good center. Plumley can at least play above the rim. He isn't undersized guys.

I mean, he wasn't, he's not the rim protector, Isaiah is, but at least guys weren't scoring over him. But, yeah, it's just. Just once you go to Isaiah in the starting lineup and you definitively, he just, he's a below the basket center, whether he's shooting it or not. I mean, there are just things about him that hurts. So, I mean, I'm wondering at this point if he's just a career backup, you know, a guy who'll come off the bench and, you know, play 18 minutes at center every night for the pistons and, you know, be the team dad and so on and so forth. And maybe that's the ideal role for him because I just don't see it right now. If he could jump, sure, it would be different.

But if you could jump, he'd gone to the top ten. So it'd be kind of a moot point. Yeah. But he can't jump. He's a below the rim player and that hurts as a center in the NBA. Yeah, they, I feel like it was against the Pacers. They tried to lob it in and it's just easily broken up. If you want to get the ball to Stewart in a pick and roll,

it has to be like a bounce pass on like a perfectly timed role. And just in general with the Pistons, like they still have an established chemistry in terms of like their timing and their handoffs. That'll come with time, but bottom line is that Isaiah Stewart, he's just inherently limited by his athletic limitations. If you can have him accept like a high minutes roll off of the bench, that's great. But in the playoffs, typically those roles shrink. And when you think about what Cade needs in a center, I think you're going to want that guy out there for high minutes. I just feel like Isaiah Stewart just might be a little too good for that.

Like, I don't know if teams are going to be clamoring for him, but I think they'd like him just because he does bring so many positives. And I think he still is a good defender. He positions himself very well. He typically jumps up straight up and contests well. He alters a lot of shots, and he does defend pretty well in space. I don't think his pick and roll defense is as good as it was last year. But for the most part, like he's able to keep up with.

faster players. Well, I feel like I'm just rambling at this point. I feel, I'm just thinking about if he is out for an extended period of time, we're going to see Isaiah Stewart's value really quickly, and it's going to get ugly because we don't have anybody. Yeah, we'll see it because the business is don't anybody to replace him. I mean, another thing that struck me in the Pacers game was that when Sabanis got the ball down low, I mean, there's just nothing Stewart can do.

Sabanis is taller, and his, and Stewart's not a jumper. Hook it in over. Yeah, his arms are higher than Stewart's, and Stewart can't do anything about it. And so he just deposited the ball in the basket, and that was that. It was a lot like where Sean Holmes was doing to him. So, yeah, I'd say he's looking more like a backup for me. I know there have been some questions as to could you move in a power forward. I would say, nope.

The fact that, I mean, this isn't the MDA of like 2014 and before where basically power forwards were just shorter centers. And stretch four was still a term. I mean, now stretch forward. Anybody who can't shoot a power forward is either Janice or the center or out of the league for the most part. And Stewart just is not, I would say, by no means. I mean, you have to be able to shoot, obviously, in that role. But even in that case, he's not ideal because you're taking him out. I guess you could play him as the center on defense.

But on offense, you're basically, he's just not quick enough to do anything. Yeah. He's not an ideal. he's not quick enough to be good off of a mover. He's not an ideal role man. So basically, in today's NBA, he's an undersized center. That's just what it is. So if the idea is Isaiah Stewart is not the long-term fit next to Cade Cunningham,

I've been thinking about this recently. What is in your mind? If you could pick like a player or an archetype or a type of center, who would be good? Or if you could like design this player, who would it be? because I have one question pertaining to what that player would be, but I want to hear, like, build a center who that fits next to K to maximizes him. What does that player look like? He looks an awful lot like Christian Wood.

To me, I mean, Tommy, I think you're the one who said this last episode. Like, attitude aside, man, I couldn't think of a better fit with Kade than Christian would. Like, here's a guy who super, super, super tall, super bouncy, super, super cerebral can spin. the floor at a high level. The problem with Christian Wood is just the defense. Otherwise, yeah, offensively, he's a decent fit, but defensively, he's just not good. Wood wasn't terrible with the pistons on defense. He was a pretty average.

I didn't even terrible either. With the Rock, he's been bad, like straight up bad. Yeah, I wonder how much of that can be attributed to team defense as a whole. But I agree, he's certainly not an elite defender. I thought he was good enough. I agree with Mike. I thought he was decent enough with the pistons. Not outright terrible.

But if I could build a center to custom fit next to kids, he would look an awful lot like Christian Wood. That's what I'm saying. So I don't know, maybe the DeAndre Aden thing is worth revisiting in the offseason. I'd probably rather. I was thinking of Ait. Yeah. I don't know about Aiden, man.

Aden, I mean, he's a strong, well, here's the issue with Aden. I mean, you're going to have to pay him. And he's just not that good. I mean, he's not an elite defender by any means. He's not a four-spacer. He has a very limited offensive agency. He's averaging like 14 points a game, if I remember correctly. I mean, he's just, he can catch Wobbs and he can run in the pick and roll.

You can get a player from much cheaper than that. Wasn't he working on mid-range? A little bit. I don't think he's been shooting from mid-range. In any case, three-point shooting is going to be a lot more important than that. Well, that was actually my question. Would you rather this guy shoot threes or mid-range? Because I want guy, like, if it's a center, I want the spacing.

I would say three. Well, I want the spacing, but I also want this guy to not give up a ton of position on the interior because I think like a guy like Stuart or like a big man like a lot of their value comes from being able to hang out near the rim if you can if you can still if you can space out if you can space out far enough that you're still not clogging the paint you're still like if you're on one side and you create and by moving away you're still enough of a threat like from midrange that guys have to play you close you can still open up one side of the floor you can for driving lanes but I mean yes It's a delicate balance.

You're opening up much less space than you would otherwise, than you would if you were able to space with a 3.9. I mean, you're much less space. But the balance is now you have somebody who's going to be able to crash the boards more effectively. Like if Isaiah Stewart was purely on the perimeter, like so much of his utility would be gone. That's why I would rather have him learn to shoot mid-range. Yeah, I don't know about that either.

I think you're just getting so much space. You're getting an additional three-point shooter. I mean, this is why you see centers shooting threes and not focusing on mid-range because the three-point shot is just a super valuable shot to have. It spaces the floor additionally, and the center can run in. I mean, when the shot has taken, the center has enough time to run in and crash the boards. Yeah, but usually, I mean, just by nature of offensive layouts, like you're going to, you have your center crashing the boards, but you have five opposing

players kind of going in for the team. I get you. A lot of players, a lot of, I mean, your center doesn't have to be there at that point. He does not have to be spotted up with a three-point one in that situation. Maybe he's in the pain already, but you see that a lot of teams. go with the just get back in transition model. I mean, crashing the boards is not a big thing in the NBA anymore. I mean, it's basically who's there.

But if I were to say, I mean, even somebody like Rashon Holmes or Jared Allen would do fine. Obviously, you want a guy who can shoot too. But, I mean, if you don't want to pay an enormous amount for a center, I mean, a guy like Allen or Holmes who can defend the rim and is strong in the pick and roll and can catch Wabs. There you go. I mean, I think that's good enough. It's not everything you want, but it's good enough. And yeah, so I think that would do it. Do we want to move on to Bay now?

I know we wanted to touch on him. Yeah. Yeah. He's been horrifically bad. And I know that there's nothing to lose by running him on this offensive experiment, but I feel like he's just being asked to do things that catered to all of his weaknesses. Bay has potential as a good player in the NBA. 3-D can be a good 3-N-D player.

That's good enough. The reason that he was able to be drafted at number 19 is that he is in the lower echelons in the league in every athletic capacity outside of strength. He has very little burst, couldn't beat guys in the NCAA even reliably. He is not agile. He has very little on the way of leaping ability,

especially off the drive. Off the ball, you can do a decent job of it, but off the drive, no. His handle is bad. and he just doesn't really seem to have the mental ability to adjust off the drive. So that would be much more, I think it would make much more sense if the Pistons were encouraging him to attack in niche situations and ways that catered to his strength. But right now he's just, he's just awful. I mean, he'll charge into the, to charge toward the rim. he's really slow so

opponents have about a billion years to adjust and he ends up taking like a below the rim lay up through double or triple coverage at the rim. He'll get stopped and turn and take a really crappy jumper, spin around jumper when he's posted up or he'll just stop and take a

mid-range pull-up and very few guys can make that deficient and he becomes a black hole. He doesn't pass and I think that's less because he's been told not to more just that he doesn't have that sort of reactive him decision making. I mean, listen, if the experiment has failed, the experiment has failed. Like, I've been the biggest Sadiq Bay champion fan out of the three of us for like the longest

time since he's been drafted. But if it's not working, it's not working. And Mike, I completely agree with you. Maybe we don't necessarily agree on what a ceiling could be, but him being a big, strong, good defending, 3&D player on decent volume is more than good enough. That's a valuable a player on any team in the NBA, someone who can for sure get, you know, a decent amount of rotation minutes no matter what the situation is. So, I mean, I guess keep trying it if you're absolutely insistent that this could be something because it doesn't look like the Pistons are bound for much success this season anyways. But at a certain point, and I suppose it's not up to me to determine when that point is, but I do think at a certain point, if it's not working, it's not

working. And there's no shame in just, you know, hanging up your hat and being like, okay, we tried and it didn't work, but you can still be a valuable player. So at this point, yeah, he's become a bit of a black hole. I'd say the vast majority of the shots that he's attempting when they're not catching shoot threes are bad ones. And he's hurting the offense. And as much as it pains me to say that, you know, it is the reality of the situation.

So at this point, I don't think it hurts to admit that maybe the experiment is over. For how much longer they're going to keep this experiment going, I don't know. But if it keeps returning these results, I can't imagine it's, you know, for a very long. long time to come here. I think it might be winding down towards its conclusion.

Yeah, I see a couple issues with Sadiq Bay right now. Primarily, one, he doesn't look to pass. I agree with you, Mike. And when he gets all the way to the hoop, I think he just wants to put it up. But he's getting mobbed by like three to four guys and he's still looking to like just push back against all this contact and put a shot up. I don't think he's comfortable kicking out yet. And at least not in those situations. And that's disappointing because to start the season, I thought he had shown a little bit of acumen for kicking out,

and that was encouraging, but I don't know where that went. And then I feel like he's hesitating on a lot of shots on the perimeter. I feel like this stretch of poor shooting that he's had is really taking a toll on him in terms of his confidence. And I really don't want him to go down that road. So I just hope that he just, I don't know if they have to tailor a shot selection or run more action for him so he gets more, you know, open threes, do something. But like, don't let him get into like a bunch of, don't let this string of bad shooting

nights continue. Help him out, I guess, because Sadiq Bay could be such a valuable player. The low usage, catch and shoot three point guy who's, you know, playing good defense, that's an incredibly valuable player. That's a good fit next to Cade Cunningham. You need that guy. And that's really what it's, that's really what you're. you need from him and it's I'm not upset that they tried this out with him they tried to expand his

role because we did learn a little bit about him and I think there is some usable stuff within this massive experiment but it would be on low volume and it would be in like he very yeah exactly niche situations that's a good way of putting it you can you can take the ball to the outside fairly well against smaller players you can do a decent job of that throughout the baseline and maybe you can attack some closeouts, so he'd better want to pass on those. But, I mean, what we talked about before the season and what I really, really, really, really would much prefer them to have had him work on

was motion threes because that's a very useful skill. And yeah, like you said, a guy, a good 3-and-D player is a valuable player. When he's not trying to force stuff in the interior, he makes good decisions. But instead of having him work on that very important, They decided they were going to try to make him a battering ram in a situation that, like I said, caters to all of his weaknesses. Yeah, his attempts at the rim are particularly ugly because those aren't good shots for anyone. Pretty much everything he's trying off the dribble is not a good shot for, this is not a good shot for really hardly anybody at all. So I'd like to see it stop.

Take him, just take him to the perimeter, have him work on the niche stuff, you know, where he gets mismatches and have him work on motion threes. because his role off the ball too has changed. He's not, like, moving off the ball to find open threes. It's basically just standing there so he can get the ball and try to drive it to the interior, and you have two black holes in the starting lineup, and that's a terrible thing. Yeah, right now, after tonight's game,

he's stuck at 46% for a shooting, which is horrifically bad. So this is not working. And it'd be a different story if I thought that there was anything to it, but I don't think there's anything there. I really wish that they would emphasize moving players on the perimeter, especially playing the Warriors

tonight. Like, that was just, it was probably the biggest difference in the playstiles. Like the Warriors moved so well off ball. And this is, again, like, their bench and half their third stringers. This is not their world beating lineup. And they still just move better than us trying our best. That's incredibly frustrating. Yeah, welcome to Dwayne Casey.

We all know this. I mean, we're not going to spend time talking about Dwayne Casey here. The Dwayne Casey experience. Yeah, we've already. Yeah, we've already in this podcast over the, you know, over the years spent more than enough time talking about Dwayne Casey. You can sum it up, you know, liked by his players, good in the locker room, good with young players, capable defensive coach, poor offensive coach, unimaginative, rigid, just

way too attached to his system, very poor at getting the most out of his players. And, yeah, offball. I think the guy, for the most part, is allergic to offball screens, and offball movement is minimal. Not a good offensive coach. And honestly, tonight, it was just like, please, we suffer and understand Van Gundy's horrible coaching and then moved down to Casey whom I didn't want because he's not as bad at Van Gundy by any means but he is a pretty poor offensive coach himself not as bad but poor so and

watching Steve Kerr who's a genius on offense yeah all right we're ready to move on to the users of many questions yep we actually kind of already answered a couple of them but I'll still read him one of them was what's wrong with base scoring his shot selection I guess We just went over that. And then is Jeremy Grant checked out? I think it would just, just to rehash it. I don't think he's checked out, but his shot selection is quite poor. And he's not attacking the paint like he did last season that made him so effective and versatile.

Yep. There's another one. This one I think is a really good question. Do we need to trade for a big in short order? Dante, I know what your answer is. My answer is yes. My answer is yes I mean as much as I like

Garza and I think I'm a bit more bullish on you know I really do believe given the proper development and given the proper coaching he could maybe eventually sort of kind of have a place in the NBA maybe

that time and place is certainly not right now I mean for every open three that he hits he also gives up probably 15 points on the defensive end so he's not the answer Olinix out for an extended period of time. And Stuart now, I mean, the ankle injury I don't think is going to keep them out long term, like I said. But the more you sprain your ankle like that, the more likely you are to sprain it again.

It's a scientific fact. This is something that Steph Curry's dealt with his entire career. And I'm not making a one for one comparison. But in the interest of having, how do you always put it, Mike, a competent backup center option, a viable backup center option? In the interest of that, you know, why not go grab somebody? I mean, I feel like there's got to be 2,000 Eric Morland's just sitting around. Eric Morland sucked.

Eric Morlin was like... He could suck, but there's lots of guys like him who can, at the very least, catch a lob and maybe grab a rebound and play above the rim some, so much so that Cade doesn't have to rely on low percentage bounce passes to his centers. He can maybe throw the ball up. Like Tommy keeps pointing out that he wants to do,

which I absolutely agree with. So Marvin Bagley is an interesting one. I disagree. I like I like Bagley. Bagley is a catastrophe. I don't care. I don't care about the defense, man.

You should care about it. You should care about it. Marvin Bagley, we also saw it. I mean, they gave him some time in the game in the Sacramento game. He was terrible.

The guy is just kind of dumb, as far as I can tell. I mean, I hate to put it that way, but he just does not seem like the brightest bulb on the court. And on defense, he is horrifically bad.

You will care. I mean, you will care. I guarantee it. When he goes out in the court, you try to play him at center. And he is absolutely. I mean, I feel like he would be our third string center. Like once killed him, then I can't be worse than Luca.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we can. Can't be worse than who? Luca on defense. Yeah. I mean, what's that? I mean, Luca is really, really at a disadvantage to begin with.

Luca's issue. I mean, sure, his IQ, his defensive IQ isn't great, but his issue is mobility. Bagway's issue is that his defensive IQ is hideously bad. I mean, honestly, can I just say playing Luca Garza against Jared Allen? That was just mean. I don't know what they should have done instead. That was tough. I mean, give credit for it.

It's so bad. Yeah. It felt so bad. I mean, the question is late. That was just mean. That is so funny. I mean, here's the thing. Who do you trade for a backup center at this point?

I mean, the pistons aren't flush with assets. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, business aren't flush with assets. You don't have a ton of them. It's so hard to predict trades because I feel like every, every time we trade. for somebody it's like the most like random name ever it's so because everybody focuses on the big

names or like the guys who were like talked about within the narratives and then these execs who are paid millions to like actually think about every option they actually find somebody who's viable and who's who nobody else is talking about i'd suppose so but the pistons would need to trade somebody to start out with somebody with enough salary and maybe something in the way of assets you can't just trade for Bagley. He's got a significant salary. You've got to match salaries there somehow. If you send out two players,

you've got to take two in return. It would be a little bit tricky, but Marvin Bagley, just the fact that he can jump is not going to make him a viable guy why trade assets for him. I mean, yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if you have Bagley trade.

I mean, where there's smoke, there's fire, and we've been hearing about it for quite a bit. So whether the fit is ideal or not, whether he's high IQ or not, post, what are those trades available? December 15th. December 15th. I don't think it's all that crazy to think that Bagley could end up a

pisten for better or worse. And yeah, Tommy totally agree with you, man. Like, who saw Blake Griffin to Detroit? Like, nobody was talking about that. You know why nobody was talking about that? Because it was ludicrous. Because it was horrendously stupid. I mean, it made no sense at all.

That's why nobody was talking about it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and I also think people don't talk about a lot of the trades that happened because, yeah, there's executives who are paid millions of dollars to just sit there and think about these trades. So I feel like something might happen. I'm not comfortable predicting what exactly that might be, but the current center situation is bad.

I don't think he doesn't care. Where's Dante Hall at? I've always liked him. Yeah, he was good in the G league. Like many players is good in the G league and couldn't make it in the NBA. I was going to say he's downtown when he, Dante Hall came to Windsor to party downtown quite a few times. I saw people I know posting him on their Snapchat.

He was at like clubs downtown in Windsor. Yeah. So I would say, I would say the Pistons probably don't care enough right now to make a trade for a center. Just for the sake of filling that hole. It just is what it is with the season, which is about development. That brings us to our last question, which is that we knew the Pistons be bad, but are they developing?

I don't think the environment for development right now is ideal. The roster is flawed, but also the starting lineup is a tire fire. You got to get Hayes out of there and put somebody else. in who can actually contribute right now it's an unathletics starting lineup that isn't moving and can't jump um yeah so like it sounds simple but it's like the truth yeah it's like it's and and wever really constructed a very unathletic lineup all together he did um which is which is not good i mean no that was a flub on his part yeah i don't think this is what they meant when they said no fly zone yeah so i mean uh the way that's the way that's the way that

At Bay, I don't think, is developing at all because they're using him and they're catering to his weaknesses. Grant is what he is. Hayes is doing nothing. Cade, we can count on to improve. Stuart, who knows what's happening. I don't think the development outside of Cade has really been there. Yeah, no, that was what I was going to say. I choose to focus on the good and I just watch Cade for like the 30-something minutes that he's out there.

And he just makes me so happy. My goodness, he's so smart. His IQ is just fantastic. You sound like you're in love. I kind of am. I kind of am. I hope he's here for a long time. And then I hope he's like a coach because I feel like he's already smart enough to do that.

I hope he's a coach. Yeah, me too, man. I hope he stick around. Like be that you, Donis Haslam until you're like 43 and just like teach the pistons of like who are like currently in diapers about winning culture after we win our next like three rings. Yeah. I mean, to be fair. I choose to focus on Cade. Yeah, yeah, to be fair, maybe we can end the episode on this. I was thinking about this the other day.

I think on retiring Chuck Daly's number sort of speaks to the fact that he's like kind of committed long term. Like I don't think he's just going to jet. I really don't. I think Kate is here for the long haul. And I couldn't have put it better than Mike put it. Not an ideal situation for development at all. This starting lineup is a tire fire. The bench is a disaster.

Everything sucks. But Kate is so good that he's just developing independent of all those factors anyway. So, I mean, are we developing? not really, but one player is, and he just so happens to be the most important player. So we're okay, we're doing all right. Not ideal. Could be better, but could be worse too.

So other than that, I mean, do we have anything else to add or are we good to wrap up? I wish they would give more emphasis to Hamadu for whatever that might be worth because he's got good potential. But Duane KZ likes to stick with a certain rotation and yada, yada, yada, let's not get into that. But I wish they were giving him.

him more emphasis because he does probably, I'll maintain it as probably like the second highest ceiling on the team after KID. All right. So that'll be a wrap for this episode. As ever, folks, thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time.