Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 8: Odds and Ends

Episode Date: November 27, 2019

This potpourri episode discusses the match against Orlando; the remainder of the critical upcoming stretch; the performances of a few key players; and a bit on why the Pistons can't fill the arena.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Driving to the Basket. My name is Mike. I'm here with Tommy. And let's launch straight into this. We're recording this right after the Pistons win against the magic. And let's just start out by talking about the game. So what were your thoughts, Tommy? Yeah. So I thought this was probably one of the best wins or best games that the Pistons have played so far this season. The first half, rough. not good at all. The magic were getting into the paint at Will. They were scoring, basically however they wanted. They were even getting uncontested mid-range shots where one magic player would drive and he would get into the restricted area and then he would turn around and he would give it up to somebody who would have two feet in the paint and he would have plenty of space around him. So not a good showing by the Pistons early on. The magic went on a run, but the Pistons were able to go on a run of their own and kind of keep.

it close enough so that when they got to the second half, they came out looking like a completely a different team, honestly. They shot well, the Pistons did, and they kind of had Orlando off balance. Like Orlando was the one who they weren't able to adjust to the Pistons early on in that second half. All right. Yeah, I mean, I agree. It was really a tale of two halves. The first half, I thought The Pistons just looked particularly awful. I mean, we went into it. I was like, oh, my goodness. You know, you've got an Orlando team playing without its two best players.

And Aaron Gordon and Nicole Bucciovich and the Pistons were, it was just like that, you know, we're really going to see another game like this where the Pistons just completely crap the bed. And when is this going to end? In the first half, I mean, defense wasn't too bad, I thought. but the offense just really looked very Dwayne Casey-like, which means the Pistons were just taking ugly shots. They were taking bad shots. It was just, it was an offense that, and this has happened forever with Dwayne Casey,

that he just falls back in isolation. So it was just constant isolations. The ball wasn't moving. The pistons weren't getting good shots. They were taking a lot of bad shots. Like the first possession of the game, Bruce Brown, you know, he got the ball, you took it up the floor. He stood about five feet from the top of the key and dribbled it for about 15 seconds,

waiting for somebody to come help him, I guess, because at this stage of his career, he can't really beat people in isolation. And then it ended with Langston Galloway taking a bad three, and it's like, oh, God. So in the second half, they came out and actually ran an offense, and that was good. You know, in terms of the game as a whole, a lot of guys had good games. Drummond ended up in foul trouble again. She just didn't really, if the Pistons are running a good offense, he just doesn't really have much of a place in it, which is concerning. But he also didn't really look like you cared all that much about the game.

So, but it was definitely good to squeeze out a win. Obviously, the Pistons cannot be throwing away any games at all at this stage. Yeah, absolutely. I was really happy with the shot selection. And part of it might have to do with, as you said, Andre was in fall of trouble. so a lot of other guys got more touches. Luke had three-threes. He shot six of 11 overall.

Svea was four of nine, four of eight from three. And then Bruce Brown, he's kind of impressed me of these last couple games, especially in the game against Atlanta, where he was guarding Trey Young. First game of the season, he came out, and he looked out of control on. defense and Trey definitely took advantage of that. He was coaxing a lot of falls out of Bruce. He was kind of playing out of control. And one of the first possessions in that Atlanta game, I thought it

was going to happen again because Bruce was moving around a lot. He was like overactive on defense. And I believe Trey got a foul out of him. And I thought, oh, here it comes. You know, this is going to be another good game from Trey. And, uh, Bruce had even said that he was looking forward to that rematch. But, no, after that point, Bruce, he got himself under control and he played really well, honestly, against Tray Young. Trey did not have a good game. I remember it was like single-digit scoring, which is unusual for Trey. He has been having a pretty good year overall.

Actually, I think he's in a bit of a slump before that, but still, Bruce Brown played really nicely against Trey Young. It's kind of giving me real hope for the first time about Bruce Brown, not just the defense, but the fact that he's been shooting threes and making them in an acceptable clip, I think he's shooting over 30% on the year, which I wouldn't have predicted that. He still has a very slow three-point shot, and he doesn't take them very often. But if he can just become 34-35-percent three-point shooter, even on low volume, to the point where if he's standing in the corner, somebody has to be on him.

That would just be huge, not only for his game, but for a guy like Blake Griffin, who a lot of times it was Bruce's man who was coming to defend him. And you definitely hope that Bruce can continue to impress both defensively and offensively in a way that benefits the pistons and himself.

Yeah, I agree. It's, I mean, I will say first and foremost, Though Bruce has had a couple of fairly good games, a starting point guard, it's really not an ideal role for him. He's done pretty well on defense, but the offense, notwithstanding, is better shooting. And he's certainly better at driving to the basket, no pun intended. So with the name of the show, in any events, he's certainly gotten better at going downhill to the basket. However, he's, though he's certainly made improvements from Westwood.

Last season, he's still pretty darned raw, and he can just as easily come out and have an absolutely terrible night. It's good to see him shooting threes better. Yeah, I'd like to see him take them more because he really passes up a lot of them. His defense has been better than it was last season. He's a lot less foul prone. I thought as I've said earlier on the show in previous episodes, I thought his defense last season was extremely overrated because he just, he did a horrible job of defending the three-point line. He was beaten easily on picks, and he was insanely felt. foul prone. He's made improvements as a pick and roll defender. Definitely, he doesn't foul anymore.

He's, you know, he's all around done well on defense. But like I said, it's a question of role. And certainly it's very encouraging. If he can become a good offensive player, then there'll be a rotation staple probably for seasons to come. It's great. You got a super hardworking guy who's definitely a good defender. He's very athletic. If he can score as well, great. He's also, I think, got real potential as a team leader. But I think it's going to be perpetually a question of what position he should play. I don't know if he'll ever really be a full-fledged ball handler, a guy who can really play point card.

Whatever the case, it's like when Reggie Jackson comes back, which is hopefully soon, I think they said tonight that they're still pegging early December. I have my doubts because stuff at the back is, you know, it's just no, back injuries are notoriously fickle on how a guy's going to look. But when Bruce comes back, what's his role? Does Casey kick Luke Kinnard back into the starting line, back into the bench? I mean, there are merits to that because, you know, it's easier competition for him on both ends. But then you're losing your best shooter in the starting lineup, and he's replaced by Bruce Brown.

It is not ideal. I think you're never going to want to have Bruce Brown out there with Andre if you can help it, because they're both not. Neither one is really a bona fide spacing threat. So, I mean, what do you see happening to the rotation when both, with regards to Brown when both Snow and Jackson are back? I mean, I really hope by that point maybe Bruce keeps showing up with this three ball that he's kind of developed.

If he does, that would make it a lot easier of a decision for me. I would actually keep him in the starting lineup. I know Luke has been playing well. He had a few nice games starting, but the defensive combo of Jackson and Kennard is just, it's really not good, and it's going to lead to a lot of breakdowns. And so if Bruce can show up there,

that would just make it a lot easier. And the other thing you have to consider is that Svi is starting to show up a little bit. Obviously, you want to keep him on the bench and keep his minutes. not super high, but he comes off as like a spark plug on offense and he can give you a few threes if you can get him open. So there are options. It's just none of them stand out really. What would you do? It's more else like you say. I mean, if Brown can, because if Jackson comes back, Brown has the ball a whole lot less. So in that situation, he's he's got to be able to He's got to be able and willing from the three-point line.

And if you can't do that, then you know, you have the same problem you had last season. You've got a guy who's a very bad off-ball, and you're asking him to play an off-ball rule. In that case, I say you keep Kennard on the floor because his offense is just much more valuable. If, you know, and this would be, this would take a huge leap from him. If he's able to hit those threes at, you know, 35 percent, then or mid-30s, we'll call it reliably. you know what we call it reliably reliably is not you know do really well one game and then horribly the next two

then fantastic you got an extra defender on the floor you got a guy who's pretty good at running the fast break and and so on and so forth but if you can't do that I don't think you can repeat last season's experience I think I think that's just asking for trouble

as far as Spie goes yeah he had a really good game this evening I think So Svi as we saw in Summer League, though, in my opinion, had a very bad summer league. He was very turnover prone. Didn't shoot particularly well. But he's got some skills as a ball handler. He's a good passer.

He's good at finding the open man. But I always thought that's just because, I mean, even though he's fairly athletic, you know, the crocodile arms really don't help. That's a major disadvantage when you're trying to score at the basket. and more or less, I saw his role from the moment that the Pistons acquired him as shooting specialist. Now, if he can do what he did tonight and just go out and, you know, be invisible on defense, which means he's not making too many errors that the guy is incredibly foul prone, you know, because he's just, he's not ready to defend it at the NBA level.

But if he can just go out there and be a highly reliable three-point shooter, we just throw in the corner, you play him maybe 10, 15 minutes a game tops, then great. Of course, I think he's the first guy out of the rotation. when Jackson and Snell are both back because then you're not taking Brown out of the rotation. Obviously, you're not taking Kinnard of Galloway out of the rotation right now. And so, I mean, Svea is a wing, sure.

But you've got to find minutes on the wing for Kinnard, Snell, Galloway, and Brown. And that just leaves nothing for Svi unless there's another injury. So I just I think he's probably always going to be on the periphery just a guy who Who will come in and hit some threes for you and that's very helpful in the NBA But I don't think he's going to have the role that a lot of people think that some people seem to think you will Yeah, absolutely But yeah, I mean moving on

It's It was I mean one thing from tonight's game is that guys shot well You know as much as the pistons have been struggling over overall having a string of games in which both Galloway and Kennard shot poorly. I mean, those are for better or worse two guys who are just very important to the pistons, and the pistons are in trouble if they're both shooting poorly. So, and I'm a little concerned with what will happen to Kennard's time of the ball when Jackson comes back, because he's actually done very, very well on the pick and roll,

and just in terms of how many points he generates and the assist he generates. And if suddenly you've got Jackson to the starting lineup and, you know, you got Rose on the bench, I don't know, this team is still kind of mismatched. It's tough to play. It's tough to coach the team, I think, in a way that really maximizes everybody. A good coach, I think, could do it, but I don't think Duane Casey is a good coach. Yeah, I mean, maybe though, when Jackson comes back, at least at first, just because even when he was playing earlier this season, he looked. a little bit slow. Maybe they'll take him back to that off ball, off ball role where he was just shooting threes off of Blake Griffin kickouts, and I'd be fine with that role.

For Kennard, I think it's a waste. Oh, no, no, no, for Jackson. Oh, for Jackson. Yeah. Well, I think that would be a waste, too, unfortunately. Oh, yeah. At least insofar as Jackson, well, it depends on how Jackson comes back looking. pardon me. Depends on how Jackson comes back looking. If he comes back looking fairly athletic, great. You know, this was supposed to be his healthy offseason when he was going to come back with, you know,

with some of the explosiveness that he once had. If you can do that, it's a complete waste to not have him on the pagan roll. Even if you can't do that, it's sort of a waste to not have him in the pagan roll. Of course, you always want to have more options. You want to have more weapons. And, you know, great if you can do that. So, yeah, like I said, it's really going to depend on how he looks. Like Jackson, we remember how he looked when he came back from injury last time and a time before that.

So, you know, that the Pistons fans should have kind of nightmares, especially about the time in, what is it, three seasons ago? I want to say 2017. Yeah, 2016, 2017. Of course, a lot of that can be laid at the feet of Stan Van Gundy, who seemed to think that Jackson was an All-Star when he was one of the worst players in the league that season. So, yeah, I mean, just something to highlight about Langston Galloway. Nobody should expect him to keep up his hot shooting from earlier in the season.

Number one, he was unbelievably hot. I mean, very few players can keep up in the high 40s in catch-un-catching shoot-threes. It's just, I mean, you've got a very, very, small subsets and for a guy like Langston Galloway, that's not reasonable to expect, rather. He's also notoriously hot and cold that caused stretches of games. Yeah. I shudder to think of what would have happened. I mean, let's put it this way.

If not for Langston Galloway and Luke Conard and at times Derek Rose and drummond in the odd game, like if the Pistons didn't have guys who had just completely exploded and just had ridiculous games, you know, you know, multiple guys, you know, sometimes three, who just went nuts in one game. The Pistons could have easily gone into tonight's game at two-win team. So I think they've really been punching above their weight in terms of offense because you don't go from one of the worst offensive teams to one of the best in the space of a season just because you added Derek Rose and Tony Snow and Marquis-Morris.

It helps, but best, you know, worse to best, no. So moving on. I know I've been talking for a while, but to come back to the perpetual Christian Wood versus Thonmaker debate, I don't think it's much of a debate amongst fans. No. And rightly so. Yeah. Like, you know.

He only played Thon for two minutes tonight. He was minus five. Yeah, I think he held Don accountable. Thon got torched on defense. He came in on off. I mean, I think Casey's sole reason for playing Thon is that he's got this idea in his head, that Thon is a decent defender, which is sadly very far from the truth. Thon has, by every metric, gotten slaughtered on defense this season.

The only thing he has done acceptably well is to protect the rim, rather. And this is on like the far, far, far edge of acceptable, you know, and really probably not even acceptable at all. He's in the low 60s, which is terrible. I'm just going to say it's bad. I mean, it's not heinously bad. It's not, you know, N.S. cancer bad. But it's not good enough.

In every other category, he's just been awful. As an on-ball defender, he is terrible. He gets bullied in the post. He gets outrun on the perimeter. If he's switched on, he's done. He can't move his feet fast enough. He's too clumsy. So, yeah, he's just, he's bad at everything on defense.

on offense, of course. He's got a fairly good true shooting percentage, given that. But that's just because he's done fairly well decently this season from three-point range on very low volume. And his offense in general has been on very low volume.

So he just provides you very, very little on offense. He is an appallingly bad rebounder. And he is a foul machine. Like if you were playing, yeah, I think he's averaging about four and a half fouls per per under possession, which is the worst on the team.

It's just if you were to ask, what is Thonmaker good at? There's really nothing that comes to mind. So, you know, I know Christian would, not all this games have been good, but he's been very good and the team has just been much better with him on the, excuse me, he's been quite good,

and the team has been much better with him on the floor. Yeah. And at the very least, he brings energy and effort. that even if Thon tries to emulate it, he's just not nearly as effective. Like Christian Wood was getting rebounds where there was two or three people around him, and he would just come out of there with the ball and it didn't look right against, especially against the guy like Mo Obama, who's just physically a freak of nature. It's kind of crazy to see a guy, even though Christian Wood is like 610 or something,

Bamba just, he's just huge, even compared to that. So there's just no reason to me. for Thon to even be getting those first couple of minutes. I understand why, because Thon kind of forced his way out of Milwaukee, or he has to be moved from Milwaukee because he wanted more opportunity. And Casey's given him that. He's given him more than he deserves, if you ask me. But I'm just fine with the fact that we didn't see him after those first couple minutes.

And if he drops out of the rotation completely, I'd be okay with that too. Oh, yeah. I really like what Christian Wood brings to the team. He shoots, I don't have the stats in front of me, but just from my own memory, he shoots the three ball pretty well on low volume, but he shoots it when he needs to. He doesn't force anything. They don't run any offense for him. He just kind of scraps his way into points, and I really like that about him.

I think he was just an underrated pickup, but he really does deserve more minutes, especially if Drummond is going to be slouching like he was tonight. I'm glad that we have a guy in Christian Wood that we're all happy to go to him, at least for right now. I think if he drops off a little bit or he goes back to missing his defensive assignments, people might turn on him a little bit. But one thing I always do when I think of a player and their value, I always try to put it in the context of their contract. and for a minimum contract guy who was almost not even on the roster for Joe Johnson,

I'm absolutely okay with pretty much everything that Christian Wood has brought to this point. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And yeah, he's been a super efficient score from three-point range. He's in the 40s, which is great. But he's just a very good score. Occasionally he tries to do a little bit too much. But I've noticed that's generally when the offense has just run off the rails and it becomes ice-hobal. But it seems to be a real conscientious player who genuinely wants to do the best he can for the team.

He works hard. Despite what maybe said about his defense, he's actually been an able on-ball defender. He can switch on the perimeter. He can move quickly enough to stay with guys. He's quick enough and athletic enough to compensate for others' mistakes from time to time. Like if somebody blows an assignment, there's a guy wide up in a three-point line. It'll probably be Christian Wood, trying to do. to sprint his way out there and cover it.

And he's made his share of mistakes off ball. I've noticed that those have become less and less over the past few games. But I think either way, I mean, the guy is better than Thon by default. But I think if the Pistons can maintain him, I mean, there aren't really a great deal of guys, actually, who can play both power forward and center these days. He'd be valuable even if the Pistons, even if Marquiv should leave. and the pistons should just keep him to play mostly back of power forward minutes. That's not bad. And I wish they would run more offense through him.

He's quite good on the pick and roll. When he rolls hard of the basket, he's bouncy. He's real bouncy and he's long. And I wish they would run more a lot of plays for him. And, yeah, when he grabs the ball into the basket, he's excellent at putbacks. Do you think he's got a super bendy body? Yeah. just going back to that discussion we had about Luke's role when Jackson comes back.

Do you think you mentioned you want to see Luke run the pick and roll more? Do you think that would be a viable combo off the bench? Of course. As long as you have a guy who can set screens, I mean, that's another thing Thaun can't do. He can't set screens. It's pathetic. I mean, it's just, it's hilarious. Half the time, he will pretend to set a screen and then just slip toward the basket,

which is doubly funny in that even if he gets the ball, he's almost certain to do nothing with it. But, yeah, would, I guess, I mean, it's just, again, trouble is going to be sharing the ball between he and Derek Rose if they're both coming off the bench. So, yeah, so there's that. I think at this point, I mean, of course, we're in a very critical stretch of the schedule. and I think it can go,

I think a lot is going to be determined of the season by how things go right now. It's good to see Griffin kind of making a return to form, though he's going to have to be very good. I mean, the pistons are basically going to need out of him what they had last, what they got last season or close to it. Here's the thing.

So the east is really bad and it's super top heavy. The pistons, even right now, being five games below 500 are still not far out of the eight seed. However, like you'd have a situation very similar to that, which you'd have last year. There are a few very good teams at the top of the standings. And if you just basically back your way in the playoffs, you're going to end up playing against a very good team that is going to swatter you.

I mean, the Pistons, I don't think in a playoff series really stand much of a chance against the likes of Toronto, Milwaukee, or Boston. So if you, you know, sure, you might be able to get in even with like a worst record than the Pistons managed last season. I mean, it's, it has not been out of the question over the past five seasons, five or six seasons. I don't remember how long it's been for teams to make the playoffs when they're below 500. Like, there are seven teams above 500 in the league right now. The Pistons are six, excuse me, in the Eastern Conference. The Pistons are six and eleven, and they are one game behind the magic for the eight seed. So people, I've seen people cite that as, you know, there's no panic.

But again, you don't want to get like the seventh or eight seed and get annihilated in the first round of the playoffs. You're actually looking at the standings, I'll met myself a little bit. There are actually five good teams right now between the Sixers, the Raptors. Celtics, the heat will have been surprising in the bucks, though I don't think the heat will last. Yeah. So, yeah, if the pistons can win, like, ideally three out of the next four, then suddenly you are nine and 12, and that's not good, but you've got a decent, you know, you're in not horrible position. If the pistons don't manage that, then suddenly you're going into a very difficult schedule in December and January and down the stretch, like the The Pistons last season, one of the reasons I made the playoffs was that they had this super easy six-week stretch in February into early March.

Yeah, I think that was it. Maybe I'm missing it by a couple weeks. And everything came together. Everybody was playing well. Like, Blake got a little bit worse, but Drummond and Galloway and Kinard and Jackson were all playing very well. And the Pistons down the stretch this year will face a brutal schedule. Yep. So.

But this time it will be sort of like leading right up to the trade. deadline. So, yeah, it'll be leading up. It'll be leading up to the trade deadline, but even after the trade deadline, it's, the schedule is still going to be very difficult. The Pistons did get dealt a little bit of a bad hand on the schedule. I mean, part of it was the injuries, but though they had a relatively easy quality of competition for the first, you know, through the early stages of the season until at the beginning

of December, they had a lot of back-to-backs. They played a ton of games in a short period. but it was mostly the injuries. The injuries and poor coaching, in my opinion, where your biggest factors. Because, of course, if you have a healthy Blake Griffin of the mix, I think the pistons would probably be over 500 by now at this stage. But they don't.

They don't have a healthy, Brettie Jackson. They don't really have a healthy Derek Rose. He's miss time. And that's what happens when you play the NBA equivalent of Russian roulette, you know, roster equivalent of Russian roulette. But when you have three out of your four most important, five most important players, the other two being Drummond and Canard are very injured prone. Yeah, absolutely.

So, yeah, you have to hope, like you said, that these next, what you say, the next three games, we play the Hornets twice and the Spurs. Yep. And then the Cubs. Yeah, exactly. So Spurs are not a very good team this season. No, not at all. Yeah, there are five games below 500 grander than a much more difficult conference.

Yeah. But, and this may be the year they finally missed the playoffs. They're more or less, you know, what the Rebblings used to be in the NBA in terms of, you know, being a at least perennial playoff team. Though they've, they're kind of the decline is mirrored that of the Reblings. Because, you know, they did find Kauai was the gem they found in the draft, but Kauai's gone now. So, and stuff. Actually, it was the first time I thought of it. But, yeah, they're very, very close NBA analog to the Detroit Red Wing.

So these are all winnable games. Charlotte's not a good team, like by any means. No. The Pistons, again, I think if that game against Charlotte hadn't been so poorly coached, like Casey wetting the offense run into nothing during the second half and forgetting about Kinar in the process, that was an easily winnable game. The Pistons really, really should have to take advantage. of these next few games.

Of course, you know, I'm beating a dead horse here. You know, everybody knows this, but part of me feels like there is still time and space for this roster to really come together over the course of the season and maybe come playoffs, make some noise, provided they don't end up the seventh or eight seed, which is more or less that they're going to get the crap eaten out of them, probably. You don't want to play the bucks again. You don't. But the Raptors are not quite as dangerous, but you don't want to play.

I'm not as impressed with the Sixers this season. I think you really, really don't want to play the Celtics, the Bucks, or the Raptors. But I think I went into the season, actually kind of cautiously optimistic, because you had a much deeper team and some players who made growth and, you know, who would see some growth. And, you know, I will give Dwayne Casey the most meager. of praise, the guy finally is learn the art of the off ball screen, which is like the easiest thing. He's finally starting to do some incredibly obvious things like run, Griffin, drum, and pick and rolls,

which were a staple in between Blake and D'Andre under Doc Rivers. And like tonight, it's like, oh, Rose and Wood ran a pick and roll, and that attracted attention. And suddenly Luke was open. And it's like, wow, you can do two things at once. amazing. Luke was open and Luke took it and ran around another screen rather, I think. And it's like, yeah, you can run two things simultaneously rather than just throwing something and hoping it works. But you've got a decent, so put it this way.

I mean, I think if Jackson comes back and he's healthy, if Bruce Brown can hit his threes at a decent clip and stay in the starting lineup, if Snell plays okay. If Drummond stays, excuse me, if Griffin stays healthy, Drummond plays decently well. And then you've got a decent bench after that. And you know, who knows? Maybe the Pistons can work their way up to, you know, the sixth seat or something, the sixth or maybe even the fifth seed, who knows, this team has that potential if Casey does an easy job as well. But you're asking for an awful lot to come together.

Yeah. And even then I'm not sure if I even want to get up there. We already have the, I think we have the record for most consecutive playoff losses. I'm not looking to extend that any further. But yeah, absolutely. If they put it all together, six seed, when the eastern conference, conference. Not out of the question at all, but it definitely does start with these next four games. Two against the Hornets, one against a slipping and sliding San Antonio Spurs team,

and then against the Cavs. Yeah, the Cavs are just bad and deliberately. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess you can hope for three games, three wins out of that. Maybe four. I just, I really don't have faith in this team just yet to win all the games that they're supposed to win. So I'm going to go conservative and do like a two-and-two. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think the Pistons conceivably have it in them to win all four games. A lot of that's going to depend on Blake Griffin and, and again, on coaching. I mean, I've been pretty clear about this.

My opinion on Dwayne Casey is that he's a coach who can lose you games. He's rarely a coach who is going to turn a loss into a win. So he needs to not screw up and make his team worse beyond that. You know, you've got to, of course, have the shooting. But it's just like this team is grinding out wins, you know, the wins it's gotten over. I'll put it this way. The team is not playing super well right now. And when you go with not playing super well, and then suddenly you've got a schedule full of games against Western Conference teams, like you're playing the Lakers and the nuggets and, you know, what have you, things are going to go rapidly downhill if you haven't gotten your shit together.

But you want to give yourself a decent cushion either way. And the, so, I mean, if they can go into December 10 and 11, then I think you got, since, you got, since. some more hope for the season. Even if they can't do that, I think if they really get things together by the new year, then they'll probably end up in the playoffs. But, you know, everything, most things have gone wrong so far this season. There's certainly time to turn it around. But, you know, much like you, I don't want a mediocre end of the season. I don't want them to squeak into the 7th 3 of the 8th seed and get obliterated again, even if they win a game. It's like, this is not ideal. However, I think if they can work their way into like the fifth seed, which is probably unlikely, but remotely, possibly

then I think that's significant progress. I know you're in favor of the tank, but you kind of got to look at what's really, I mean, I think we can both agree that with the team's current ownership that's unlikely to happen. Yeah. Unless the Pistons are like 15 games below 500 of the trade deadline. Yeah, no, that's, I mean, like I've been kind of hoping that they would lose. a few more games, which I know that sounds horrible to say. And then there are games like tonight where, you know, the young guys get run and they do well. And I don't mind those wins

at all. You know, I thought tonight was a good game. I enjoyed it for what that game was. But yeah, overall, these next four games, I think, are going to really put the playoff picture and the future into a clear focus of what we can really. realistically expect throughout the rest of the year. Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. And yeah, I mean, I think we're with it on this. And it would just be the worst for the team to just be mediocre again this season. I think by the trade deadline, you either want the pistons,

solidly in the race for the 60th at least. Or put it this way. You either want this team to be good or really, really bad. Yeah. and nothing in between. Yeah. So. I mean, just, yeah, just to, I mean, just to expand it to it.

Because, I mean, one of the, I think one of the big issues with the Pistons, certainly with respect to the fan base and attendance at home games is still really, really bad, is that there's so little to be excited about. I mean, most teams have something to be excited about, most fan bases, rather. Like, the bad teams have. young players. It's like among young players. Like the Hawks,

okay, you've got Trey Young and John Collins and who do they think this year? There's Kevin Hurt. Camer. Cambridesh, yeah, that's right. Of course, right now, they're, you know, as good as Tray Young could possibly, it could probably be, of course,

I think that, you know, the ownership of the Hawks is probably tearing their, you know, their chest hair out at the fact that they made that deal with the Mavericks because, you know, whether or not Luke can sustain it, he has been, I didn't think the guy had it in and would be a superstar.

I thought he'd be a very good player. But a, like a friend of mine put it well is that, you know, the guy was always going to have a high floor. He might not have a super high ceiling, but he's going to have a high floor. He's been spectacular. Yeah. And, you know, even for your Hawks fan, and you say, Trey could be a very good score. I doubt he will ever be as good as, I doubt he's going to be that good.

But. Since the other part of that was Cam Reddish, you don't feel too good about that. Yeah. And but, you know, as the Hawks, you've got a decent young team. And, and they're, they absolutely have the reset button, you know, locked down already. They've, they've got complete control with their future. The Bulls have some decent young guys. Again, I think that they're much like the Pistons and that their Achilles heel is, his ownership, and they perpetually keep an incompetent front office. And, but, you know, they've got some, they've got some good young guys. If you look in the, in the West conference. I mean, the Warriors, I think it's hilarious. It's like you are the most dominant team. You know you're going to be missing Clay Thompson for the season. You're probably not going to make the playoffs. And then suddenly, you're an awesome position to get maybe a number of an overall pick. Yeah. That's ridiculous. It really is. I mean, if they end up with Wiseman, I don't know, man, just throw it. It goes back to what it was for like the last five years where everybody kind

knew what was going to happen until Toronto actually took it. But I don't know. It's It's kind of crazy to me that they just continue to put themselves in position to win like that. It was purely coincidental. I mean, you take Thompson out. Dremont's going to get worse every time you lose any superstar offensive talent because he's not a good score. Not a good shooter. And then Curry suddenly, everybody thought he was poised for like a repeat of 2015-2016 season where he was just incredibly good, like one of the greatest all-time individual seasons in an NBA history.

and then he goes out maybe for the entire season. But, you know, if you're with Grizzlies, John Morant looks real good. Jaron Jackson Jr. looks pretty good. If you're the Thunder, you get shy. Yeah, oh, has he? I haven't been watching. Yeah, no, yeah, he's been really good for them. Quietly good, but he's been really nice for them.

Yeah. And if you're the Thunder, you got shy and a boatload of draft picks. obviously the Pelicans you know what they got the Kings have got a good young team the sons have a good young team I think they're going to start sliding in the standings now or they already have but the point is there are just very very few teams that have not had one of two things you know something to be excited about in the future or success in the recent past yeah those the teams that fall into that category I would say are the Distance and the Knicks and nobody else.

Actually, the Hornets, perhaps, unless you consider Miles Bridges and PJ Washington to be really exciting. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's gotten to the point. Not to discount what the G League is, but we've got guys posting Seku's G League highlights. And that's what we're getting excited about. It's nice to see that he's shooting well, but you really wish that there was more to it than that. Like, even Blake hasn't looked really much like himself. So, yeah, it's only fun when guys are really hitting their shots.

Yeah, I agree, completely. I mean, I'm always in for good team basketball, and that's enjoyable to watch. There's always this nagging, and I try to stay in the present and not think about about where the pissons are positioned in the greater scheme of things. It's like, you know what, it's this season I'm going to enjoy it as much as I can. But, man, when they are playing poorly, especially over it. protracted stretch. It's like, what does this, what do we as fans really have to look forward to in this situation? And sure, you know. Yeah, yeah, I know you are. You know, I was as well for a while,

and I think I just got kind of pounded into the submission over the last couple of seasons. And it's like, okay, I'm just going to enjoy whatever I can here because first you got Stan Van Gundy, you know, above him, you've got Tom Gores, who is real bad too and he's not going anywhere. But, you know, we talk a little bit about Sacco and about Jordan Bone. You know, Saccoo was fairly good by G-League standards, of course. The gap between G-League and NBA is enormous, like, gigantic. Christian Wood was a deity amongst men in the G-League. And he's pretty good in the NBA.

But, like, even Darren Hilliard, some Pistons fans who remember, he was one of the second round selections that Stan Van Gundy whiffed on and then threw away after a couple seasons. He did really well in the G League in his limited time there. So, you know, some skills that Sekuel has that are translatable. He's been shooting his three as well. That's obviously, as you can shoot threes. That's going to a hundred percent translate to the NBA. He's looked fairly good going downhill toward the basket.

And, you know, he's patient. He seems to not really force things. things and, you know, it looks like he's got a good attitude and he works hard. Jordan Bone, you know, he might be a guy, I think, Tops, who's going to make a decent, you know, third-strike-point guard in the NBA. Number one, he's got crocodile alarms, which hurts. He doesn't really have much sense of scoring at the basket. He really relies on mid-range jumpers a little bit too much.

And, you know, super athletic and that helps. But just in terms of offensive IQ, he just isn't. and all that great. So, yeah, and that pretty much is the entirety of the prospect covered for this organization right now. Yep. Yeah. Aside from Dave Vita Servetus, who is currently doing very poorly in his EuroLeague, that move

continues to be a head scratcher for me. Basically, you had a shot at some readily available guys. You could have taken a flyer on Bull Bowl. you know, for when for when Drummond departs the team or somebody. Yeah, if we're taking like a backup center or 30, something. Yeah, exactly. I have no trouble like letting these guys develop. Like I know I just said that like say who in the G League is boring.

I'm fine with him being there and developing as long as he shows progress. But right now there's just there's not much that's exciting. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And I mean, that was one of the things for me that made it a slightly curious. pick. Of course, you have this organization that's in this perpetual, just perpetually weird place of wanting to quote unquote compete now. We know what that means. That is the philosophy of Tom Gores, of course, I want you to make the playoffs every season. And I'm going to ignore the fact that

my refusal to let you rebuild and my persistent hiring of employment of incompetent personnel in coaching and management. Though I'll say that Stefanski and company have been simply average rather than bad. Yeah, he's like, so I want to compete right now. And also we want to plan for the future. So it's like, yeah, you have a lottery level talent that falls to you at number 15, I believe the piston's picked. So, you know, do you take that or you take a guy who can maybe help you right now?

Like, you know, I know Alexander Walker isn't doing great, but that's potential your point guard of the future there. And, you know, it's something for that you got a young player about whom the fans can get excited now. And you've got in the larger context, like, okay, we've got a decent young core on this team who can develop and come up. But instead, I don't know, I wouldn't necessarily say it was a bad decision. It was a curious decision. But dumping number 30 for Jordan Bone, like a future second round pick. And the guy who's probably almost certainly never going to be anything more than a complimentary.

player in the NBA was it was a completely and utterly bizarre to me yeah so yeah sometimes it's hard to kind of gauge what the direction that the front office wants or what it is rather i mean i guess we'll see it seems like they're kind of playing both sides like they have this guy who's a developmental piece and they could talk about this young core players but and like they're about all the young guys that they have, but they're all like, end of the bench are not very good. So it's like they want to say they have youth, but they're also contending, but they don't really do either of them very well. Yeah. Who knows?

I mean, it's like, sure, Kyrie Thomas is injured now, but I get the feeling that Casey would have brought him, but would have brought Svee off the bench ahead of him regardless. I don't know if we'll ever know what we have in that guy. He was actually mocked in the first round is a solid 3 indie NBA player with potential, you know, start of potential rather. Of course, you know, you'd have to be on a team who had enough ball handling because the guy's never going to handle the ball well. It's just not one of his strengths.

But, I mean, there's also the fact that the front office selected two shooting guards with their picks in that draft. So who knows? It's all kind of a mess right now. And I think the best best business fans can do right now is just hope that there's just hope for the best and the presence and leave the future to the future. but that's easier said than done. So anyway, I want to thank you all for listening.

Hope you all have a happy Thanksgiving, and we will catch you in the next episode.