Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 82: Cade is ready to compete - but is the organization?

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

This episode discusses the organization's prospective timeline in building around Cade Cunningham and revisits the Jerami Grant situation. (Recorded prior to Cade's big game against the Nuggets.)

back everybody to drive into the basket part of the basketball podcast network i'm mike joined as always by dante and tommy uhmmy back from the nfl draft combine uh decided to go back to school and and uses this remaining five years of eligibility um yeah it turns out i'm not actually talented or good at football but i believe in myself so i'll be back next year absolutely you're gonna you're gonna grind so you're gonna get back to it and uh we'd be absolutely got 20 pounds of muscle 20 30 40 40 pounds muscle. 40 pounds of awesome. Gotcha.

Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I got faith. You're going to be the first player in the history of the NFL to play at every position. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually what I'm going to be spending my extra time doing.

Excellent. I'm just learning how I do everything. Horn and I do everything. All right. And, uh, I mean, I've got this vision of you as a quarterback who can throw passes to himself. That would really revolutionize the game. Marcus Mariotta actually did that in a playoff game.

Really? He hit the back of his old lineman, caught it. it in for touchdown. Gotcha. That's funny. I'm going to do that regularly. Yeah, sounds good. All right, so as usual, we got a lot to talk about today, but I just want to share a cool

experience I had. I was actually at the Nuggets Pistons game at Ball Arena, formerly to Pepsi Center in Denver. And we originally just had seats. Actually, actually had pretty good seats in the lower bowl, you know, right near the middle of the court. So, you know, I think like the 16th row or so. but my cousin has a friend who has floor seats and he was in contact with the guy and the guy said, oh, well, I want to go watch the football game.

It was the Chiefs and the Bill's. And of course, Broncos fans really don't like the Chiefs. So they kept showing on the big screen fans and Chiefs jerseys and they would get just raucous boos from the crowd. But in any case, so yeah, the guy went off to watch the game. And myself and the family I was there with, we went and sat in the four. seats that his company has. And these were right behinds, like legitimately right behinds the media desk. So right in between the benches, like right at floor level. And it was just awesome. I mean, it's the first time I've been anywhere near that close to a basketball floor.

And you just see it. I just let me see things from just such a different perspective. It really just nailed home that it's easy to see from, you know, from the TV level or from higher up in the stands or most of it's really just watching on TV. And these guys are just figures on TV and on a stat sheet and whatnot. And of course, from the ground floor, it's like you can see that these are, you know, real people. Of course, we know that. But playing a sport, that's their job to go out there and compete

and to play a sport at the highest level they can against some incredible athletes. And you just see like the facial details, for example, like watching Killian Hayes play, but I'm not a huge Killian fan. It's like watching him look completely indecisive and uncons. confident as if he was just terrified to be out there. Not terrified, but completely out of his element.

Josh Jackson reporting to the scorers bench with that same kind of facial expression he always has. He's just a really tall guy at like age 24 or so, you know, checking in to play NBA basketball and like Bryn Forbes. And I grew up in the Michigan state area. So I watched Bryn Forbes play and come over to the bench, slap his hands, jump up and down. It looks super happy to go into the game. So it was just really interesting seeing it from four level, not just how big these guys are. And I mean, these guys are really big, of course.

Like the shortest guy out in the floor that night, I think, was Corey Joseph or maybe Monta Morris. They're both about six foot three. Just the speed these guys play at, the degree of skill they play at, even like the least talented guy in the floor. I mean, anybody should know this, but it's just Ramsedome, the least talented guy in the floor is an incredible basketball. player. And it was just really cool to see it from eye level. And, you know, one thing, of course, you know, for any Pistons fan, K, it's going to be the primary attraction. And just seeing him with his degree of body control and his poise, it was just, it was, it was that much more visible from court level. And I didn't heckle Dwayne Casey. I really could have spent the whole time

heckling Dwayne Casey. We were down in these seats for the second and third quarter. And Dwayne Casey when he was out at mid-court was probably about 15 feet away. And the most I did was shout at him. They should start McGruder. And, uh, but I was like, I know that these guys, you can tell on next level at ignoring the crowd, just ignoring fans, uh, you know, heckling and whatever else. But it's like, man, these are, uh, who knows when I'll ever be back in again in seats like this. I do not want to risk getting thrown out. So, so I didn't say anything. But yeah, it was, it was just great. And of course, the game was really good. And, and, And it came down to the wire and a hot topic that came up from this game as well as the last

game, the last close game, the Pistons played against the Grizzlies, not the Grizzlies, excuse me, the Jazz. It was that Cade basically didn't get the ball, the last, barely at all, like the last few minutes. Not ideal. And yeah, I know Dante, you've got some things to say about that. Well, I know that that's sort of, well, first of all, Mike, I've never been like courts. and that's essentially what you were. It was like, you were sending Tommy and I videos.

It looked a hell of a lot like court side to me. I've never been that close. Yeah, absolutely court side. Yeah. And so I just think that it's, I can't imagine the different perspectives that you might have gained seeing the game from that level because, yeah, it's like you said, these guys are, they're people, they're human beings. And we think that we know that.

But when you watch these athletes on TV across, you know, any sport, really, across any medium, you sort of forget that they're people. They almost take on this mythical sort of aura about them. And seeing them that up close must be, that's something that I definitely want to do in my life. So I think that's super cool. And I appreciate you relaying the experience. But as far as Kate is concerned, there was a little bit of Twitter drama. And this is something that I know we feel it's important to have a nuanced discussion about.

So Cade's cousin, Ashton Bennings, who also moonlight as his personal trainer and I guess sort of his quasi-agent. Either way, he's a part of Cade's inner circle. And he tweeted out, I don't have the tweet in front of me, but it was something to the effect of, you know, I guess the Pistons forgot about the Cunningham clutch gene, right? Obviously implying that the Pistons were negligent in not making it a priority to get Cade the ball late there in crunch time. And I know that I have some pretty strong thoughts on it, but what I'm really curious of is what the two of you think about it, particularly you, Mike, being there. I don't know if you noticed anything as far as Cade's body language is concerned,

as far as what the Pistons were actually trying to do. But do you think going back to the core Joseph well three times in a row was the play? Or do you think that Ashton has a point, I guess, is where I want to start before I jump into my thoughts on the matter. I think that Dwayne Casey has a simple mind. And Dwayne Casey thinks that's okay, we're giving Cade so much. You know, he's come out and said, he said it after the jazz game, it's important that we give Cade kind of a breakdown the stretch. And in Casey's mind, giving Kate a breakdown the stretch can easily extend to just not using him at all.

I mean, if he's not being used as the primary handler, well, you've got to use somebody else as the primary handler, and that's Corey Joseph. That's just how he operates. I'm not calling Casey an idiot, but when it comes to nuance where offense is concerned or where really anything is concerned, in case he is not good, particularly on offense is very, very, very simplistic. Obviously, to a fault, well past the point of fault. So it's kind of like, okay, well, it's, I think boils down to an all-or-nothing equation. It's kind of like, okay, well, if I'm not using Kate as my super on the ball kind of guy, then, okay, we're giving the ball to Corey, and Corey's going to be running the play then.

So, I mean, don't get me wrong, Coach has been real good lately. And, I mean, quietly on the season, he's been the, the team's most efficient score is shooting like close to 45% from three of them the download volume is only scoring eight points a game a fun fact about cojo uh he has probably the worst um of any ball handler the worst ratio of dribbles to points in the entire league like he's near the top of the league and dribbles per touch and and uh you know amongst handlers i think in general rather dribbles per touch and amongst that same if you're looking amongst uh high volume hands as he's near the bottom in terms of points per dribble.

Completely random fact. But yeah, I think it just came down to simplicity. It's like, you know, if your Casey, you have to be running stuff in a way that gets the ball back into Cade's hands to some degree. But Casey in the late game situation is just does really simple stuff. So I think this is down to doing Casey. He's not a good coach. I don't think there's anything else I can say beyond that.

It's not a good coach. Right. I had the benefit of actually watching this game a couple days after the fact I actually just watched the fourth quarter about an hour ago. and you guys had told me, like, they did not go to KAD down the stretch. So that was definitely something that I was looking for when I was going to watch this recording. And I get what you're saying. But for the, so the big thing was Corey Joseph pick and roll three straight times.

He did score on the first two. And then the third one, it was the Will Barton. He pokes it away. And then that's a turnover. And in the clutch, yeah, yeah, that's painful. And then I believe it was the next play. they did get it to Cade, and he's bringing up the court, and then I want to say it was Barton, runs straight into, he runs into Liles. And then right after that, they wave off the three-pointer that Cade Cunningham makes, and that's just painful.

So I get what you guys are saying, but the other thing that I noticed, I noticed this straight away from the first quarter, Denver was extremely aggressive putting bodies on Cade. they were consistently doubling him most of the time. And there was even one play through that, through that, you know, down the stretch where they inbounded it to Cade and they put three guys on him. He was Yokic and then two wings and he had to get rid of it. And then Corey Joseph had an open three that he ended up passing on. So I get what you're saying. But in this particular case, I think Denver was just putting a lot of respect on Cade and he got rid of it.

Yeah, I don't know if I fully agree with it that it just boils down to the fact that that Cade was prevented from getting the ball. And that's a viable, you know, excuse. Because in my opinion, just having watched as much NBA basketball as I have, we know that those elite players, your best players, you have to put the game in their hands. You have to, especially in these late crunch time situations. And I can't help but feel like it's almost negligent in a way

to not be able to scheme Cade open, you know, to not be able to draw something up whereby which Cade will 100% get the ball, even if he is double-teamed. You know, I feel it's important to empower Cade in those late-game situations to make sure that he has a chance to really have a direct impact

on how the end of the game goes, you know? And I'm not going to come out here and advocate for a tweet like that from a family member, but what I do think is that it highlights maybe the frustration that the general fan base is feeling in that it's it's i feel it should be an all or nothing thing either kate is your guy or he isn't right either kate is your best player or he's not so if we're going to go back to the kori joseph well

three times in a row in the clutch whether or not he scored on the first two possessions the question remains then why is kate out there are you trying to win these games or you're not trying to win these games are we trying to develop kate or are we not trying to develop kate you know i feel like ashton has a point i don't understand why a team who very clearly is not competing for anything meaningful who very clearly does not get to engage in these crunch time, very tight game late situations because they're usually getting, you know, these games are usually lopsided. The Pistons don't play a whole ton of close games and there aren't a whole ton of opportunities for Cade to shine in those close games and in those moments.

So when those opportunities do arise, why is it not Cade? Maybe I'm missing something. I don't know what you guys think. I just don't quite understand why you wouldn't go to Cade there or why you wouldn't do everything in your power to scheme the ball into Cade's hands at the bare minimum. Because, I mean, when it comes down to it, like you look at the jazz game, well, number one, you've got to ask why Cade is imbounding the play fairly regularly at critical moments. And I think the answer is stupid coaching.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. We can go back to that Wizards game. And I think this is just emblematic. We go back to that Wizards game. You have that last second play. First, it's basically, okay, Cade's going to inbound the ball. And nobody's going to do anything except, you know, Frank Jackson. is going to try to run back toward the logo for a three, and he's going to have to catch it, turn, and fire it in very little time. And then they get, I think they call the timeouts

because the inbound is difficult. They ran the same play again. And it was crap. And Cage had never been inbound. And you want him in that situation. It's like have killing him on the ball. I mean, it was going to take away from the fact that he's a good, everybody is a very good passer.

Then you have just have guys run those routes around, but that's not how Dwayne Casey thinks. So when it came to the jazz game, it's like, okay, well, they're really making it hard to get the ball to him. All right, well, let's look at another team. It's like, I think teams are going to make it hard to get the ball to James Harden or Kevin Durant or or Ron James, but a good coach doesn't just wave the freaking white flag and say, okay, well. You don't give him the ball.

Yeah, exactly. It's like, I mean, did you see Casey seemingly just wave the white flag and say, okay, we're going to give it to somebody else and we're going to run the play through him. Yep. And it's just bad coaching. I don't think there's any other way of looking at it than just bad coaching. I don't think there's any explaining it away. And I don't think it's a good idea.

No, I think it's just bad coaching from a bad coach. Casey is a bad offensive coach. I think that's pretty much just out there at this point and has been since before the Pistons hired him. Yeah, I would agree with that. There have been times where just very simplistic movement for Cade or trying to run plays to get Cade the ball. They just get blown up because it's not very creative coaching.

Like, one of the things that I think Steve Kerr does really well is everybody knows that Steph Curry is like the guy that you want to put the ball into his hands. and yet they still manage to get him open shots or looks that he can take with certain confidence. Right now, we're not really seeing that drawn up for Cade, but I still think it's important to make mention of the fact that, like you said, Dante, everyone knows that Cade is the best player out there. So it makes sense that they're going to put a lot more pressure on him. Taking advantage of Cade's gravity is going to be a very important thing moving forward.

I don't think that it was really taking advantage of with those Corey Joseph. pick and rolls. But on the play where it was imbounded to Cade and then he takes it up the right wing and then immediately three Nuggets defenders abandon their man just to keep Cade away from the basket. At that point, Cade passes it to Coy Joseph. Cori Joseph had a wide open three that he passed up and then he passes to Siddique Bay and it's out of bounds. That's a blown play. But if Corey Joseph had taken and made the shot, that would have been taking proper advantage of Cade's gravity. I don't think it's necessary that you have to give Cade those shots, even though he is a really good clutch player. I think it's just important that you do make the most of his gravity.

That's the most important thing to me. So let me ask the two of you this then, because I know that there was a broader discussion that we wanted to transition into. But before we get there, rapid fire, yes or no, do you agree with Ashton's tweet? And if the answer is yes, why? And if the answer is no, why not? I would say I inherently disagree. with it and I suspect that he ultimately realized this himself though obviously I have no idea of this that I don't think it's appropriate

or wise whatever you want to call it. It's judicious for a family member to be making this kind of tweets particularly it's close to kid. So, you know, to his credit, he deleted the tweet of people, you know, stuff happens, whatever. Tommy? Sure. Yeah, I did.

Let me go a little further. Just have one more thing to say. I mean, I agree that the way things were done wasn't particularly smarts. It wasn't smart in the jazz game. And that comes down to coaching. And what are you going to do beyond just telling the coach you have to do this or replace the coach?

I mean, it's just what it is. This is Dwayne Casey-era for the Pistons. Yeah. I would just say that I think it's something that we're going to have to keep an eye on. Once we have more talent, I think it'll be a lot easier to take advantage of Cade in his one-on-one situations. But right now, the smartest thing to do is to put two people on Cade and try to pressure him into losing the ball because I think still one of his weaknesses is

ball handling and turnover. So if I'm scouting Cade, that is something that I would try to do. So once we have more talent, once there are more spacing options, if they're still taking the ball out of Cade's hands, parking him in a corner, yes, then it's a massive problem. But for right now, I can kind of see why they would want to use other people to try to win games, but you still need to find ways to use Cade's gravity at the very least. And those are the key words, Tommy, I don't even think you realize that you said for right now, right? And I think that takes us very nicely into what we figured would be a good next segment,

which is the way that I'd like to go about this, if this is okay with the two of you guys. I want to lay out my case because I know that the two of you may have some inherent disagreements with my premise here. But I believe, and I think that Ashton's tweet just sort of is stoking the fire a little bit, at least for me, I believe, especially in the NBA, when you draft a player of Cade's caliber, the clock immediately starts to tick. Now, I'm not out here advocating for us to trade all of our future first round picks and use all of our cap space immediately to acquire help. I'm not advocating for the fact that Cade is a diva who's going to want to leave at the first sign of trouble. I'm not advocating for any of those things. What I am advocating for is for people, fans specifically, to look at the reality of professional sports.

I think fans under credit the power that star players have over organizations. And I think that this is the truest in the NBA. You know, you look at the power that a LeBron James has over the Lakers, the Cavs, the Heat. You look at Janus and how the Bucks are trading piles of first round picks for players who at the time, maybe the rest of the league didn't think were difference makers, you know. Aaron Rogers has held the Green Bay Packers hostage for like the better part of four years. And so I'm not comparing Cade one to one to those guys. But what I am saying is these moral victories, you know, oh, the team showed improvement.

Oh, we kept it close. Oh, we played this team tight. They only go so far. These players are human beings. You know, Mike saw that firsthand at the game last night. These players are people. They care about their legacy. they care about winning.

They care about having fun on the court. I don't think losing, at least not losing to the extent that I think some people find would be okay in a long-term rebuild for the Pistons is fun for these guys. And as good of a guy as Kate is, as much as he says the right things all of the time, it's very rare to find a Damien Lillard type. It's very rare to find a Michael Jordan type or a Kobe Bryant type, these guys who threw thick and thin. stick to their teams for the most part. So my premise, and I just to round this out, and I want to know what you guys think, my premise is that you have to find a way sooner rather than later,

maybe not to push all of your chips in, but at the very least to show a player likeade and his family and his agents that you are capable of putting a good team around him and that you are capable of giving a little cushion, you know, a little platform for him to spring his legacy forward from. I think this is drastically premature subject to be discussing because, I mean, Cade's been in the league for what, like three, in terms of like from the start of his first NBA season

for about three months. Yeah, but does that change what I, does that change the premise though? Yeah, I'd say it changes the premise definitely because, because players come in, I mean, their average player is coming in as a high pick is coming to a bad team. That just is what it is. players and the average player comes into the league isn't trying to to make events full around him early on i mean zionm williamsson could be an exception of that but he's kind of a diva a tiva who won't even keep himself in good physical shape i mean you have lebron james i mean he's an extreme

example not only as as one of the i'd say without a doubt one of the two greatest basketball players in the history of the world and also a guy who has sometimes the detriment of his team exercised just really demanded way too much in the way of personnel control. They're just, you know, way too much in the way of demands. Westbrook is with the Lakers because of LeBron and AD. I doubt AD himself would have been given that amount of leeway. You can go read it. This is not speculation.

This is just the case. The athletic read a long article about it. They basically sat down on LeBron's house and went superstar recruiting and they decided on Westbrook. So, like, sure, you eventually have to, obviously, 100% your goal is to make something of these picks. Your goal is to make something the most of the players on your team. But that's years in the future.

I mean, a lot of these guys who refers to overall picks don't get to the playoffs until season three. Some of them don't get to the second round until season five, maybe. I don't think has Luca been in the second round? I don't think so. The Bucks traded all of those picks for holiday because, yeah, they wanted to keep Janus. This was Janus's third contract. I mean, it was, the question was, like, after year, year eight or year nine.

Year eight, I think, is Janus going to go someplace else because the bucks can't get it together? That's a long time. So it's a yes and no answer to you. Do you have to eventually mobilize and get things together and get stuff moving and start to win if you want to keep these players? Well, yeah, of course. Is that applicable to the Pistons right now?

I would say absolutely not. We're two months to three months in decades NBA career. I mean, there's a long way to go in the Pistons if they want to do it right. and give themselves and him the best shot at actual success. Patience is the way to do it. But this is so early. Right. Dante, I get what you're saying with this question because this is a,

it's a discussion that we have all the time. And it's one that I like to think about because in an ideal world, yeah, you're in talent acquisition mode for three years before, you know, the rookie extensions start to hit. And that's when, you know, your cap space and your cap's flexibility. That's when it goes away. Like you can make, these are absolutely critical years. There is a clock that is ticking, so to speak.

But as far as, you know, keeping players happy, I do agree with Mike a bit that it's not a huge deal right now because we're still early into it. Now, three to four years down the line, if there's still issues, if we're like, if we look like a bad organization that seems incapable of eventually putting a winning product together, yeah, then there's problems. like if a lot of our draft picks have not worked out we don't have we've made bad use of our cap space yeah then a superstar like kidd cunningham is going to look at that and he's going to be like what am i doing here what's the future here that's a problem um what i see as less of a problem is the night to night losses and while i do think that there's certainly you know an emotional aspect to that especially for these players you know these are the guys who have been competing as hard as they can all their lives they've been winners they've been top of their game they get to the

the league and a high pick goes to a team that's not going to win. I think back to the JJ Redick podcast, Cade Cunningham did before the season. J.J. asked him, he's like, what are your goals or ambitions or expectations for the season? And he said, we're trying to make the playoffs. And J.J. kind of laughed at him. He's like, no, top picks, rookies, they don't make the playoffs in their first season. And he was like, he was very confident. He was like, you know what?

We'll come back in a year and we'll see. I think Cade had higher expectations, maybe for himself or the team. But you can tell he didn't come into this with like a loser's mentality or it's like, yeah, no, I know that we're tan. So I see what you're saying. But I think that it's going to be more of a focal point two to three years from now. Because right now where we are, we have money to spend in the next couple years. We have top picks coming in. Once we see the outcome of those, that's when we're going to be a better judgment about this.

Yeah, I guess I'm not, maybe I'm not being, like, it's not like I'm in panic mode right now. And I think I said this at the beginning of my, the presentation of my argument. I'm not advocating for these big drastic moves right now to put a winner around Cade right now. And that's also due in part two that Cade is, Cade is not good enough to build around at this stage, right? He's not that player that's going to carry you to a championship. He's not 20-year-old LeBron James. He's 20-year-old Cade Cunningham.

Now, I do believe that he's operating on a plane that maybe is a little higher than top picks of years past. He's not quite at that Zion, AD, LeBron level, but I do think he's better than your average first overall pick. I do think that we're all sort of an agreement that he is our franchise cornerstone. So I'm not saying go all in right now. I'm not saying you have to, you know, kiss the ground that he walks on right now. What I am saying is that the building of the foundation, the process of showing Kate in his camp that you are competent and capable does start right now. I think these decisions that we make, these acquisitions that we go forth with, are critical. So I'm not trying to go too far to one extreme, but I hope the two of you,

and I do wonder if fans recognize as well that these are not just meaningless throwaway years. You don't just hit auto sim, tank for three years, get high picks, and then it's good to go. development is non-linear, right? Progression of an organization has its ups and downs. And I think we need to start really examining the moves that we make with a critical eye because they're all going to be impactful down the line. And now a quick word from our sponsor. Hockey fans.

Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NHL, has a no-brainer offer that'll make you a winner once any shot gets past the goalie. New customers can bet just $1 on any NHL game and win $100 in free bets if either team scores. the NHL got rid of ties in 2005. So you know someone is going to light the lamp. If Sportsbook isn't available in your state yet, no worries. Everyone can play for huge cash prizes all season long with Draft King's Daily Fantasy Hockey contests.

So download the Drafking Sportsbook app now. Use promo code TBPN, throw down $1 on any NHL game, and $100 in free bets if either team scores a goal. That's promo code TBPN this week at Drafting Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NHL. must be 21 or older, New Jersey, Indiana, or Pennsylvania only, new customers only, minimum $5 deposit and $1.1 wager required. One per customer.

Restrictions apply. See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details. And if you have a gambling problem, call 1,800 gambler. What moves? I mean, what moves would, what would you advocate that the business do differently at this point? I think, well, I think that they did cater a big disservice by not getting him a viable lob threat. I agree. Yeah.

That was a terrible, it was a, it was a very, it's very difficult for me to comprehend how they managed to flub just getting him a good role man. And that's one. And I'm not saying, oh, Troy Weaver's a terrible general manager. I'm not saying that, you know, Kate is fully checked out now because we didn't get a seven footer who can jump for him. It's just, it's the little things. It's the nuance. It's, it's stuff like that. Sure, but what do you do right now? I mean, hopefully you look into the future and say, okay, hopefully, you know, hopefully Troy Weaver in the upcoming offseason, you know, draft. trades, a free agency, whatever, can make this a more well-rounded and more complete team, like the idea in this last year off-season was to add shooting. But we ended up with one of the least athletic teams in the league without a single tall player who can jump. The pistons have no to players who are particularly tall or can jump either one.

But certainly, yeah, whatever. We've said this again and again. but yeah, add just more, make it feel the more functional roster. That's really the crux of it, right? Yeah, exactly. So field a more functional roster, great. I mean, I think that's something you can do in, you have the draft to help address some of that. You have free agency to help address others, but, I mean, you don't want the pistons to be going, you know, all in on long-term contracts.

Definitely not. No, so, I mean, it's like, what do you do in the short term? I agree that this last offseason was handled in free agency fairly poorly. And it's like this team is chock full of slow players at the moment who can't really jump. That's not ideal. So yeah, I agree things could be done differently, but like what else can you really do in the upcoming off season? Well, would you guys agree with this? Would it be possible, say, by next year to not be in crash and burn full on tank mode?

By next year to have a functional roster in place that maybe could win a few more games than this year and the year prior. I think that's a good starting point. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have, at this stage, we have a top six pick, as the standings are right now. If we add more talent, that becomes like a top eight, maybe a top 10 pick. Like if we win a bunch of games, like we've been pretty strong in the month of January, if that were to continue all throughout the season, I don't think we're going to. We do really affect our pick. And I know that it feels distant and, you know, it's really tough night to night to watch the losing.

but back of my mind, like, I really want to preserve that pick because, you know, you have a lot of advantages by drafting your talent. You have their bird rights. It doesn't cost you anything except losses a few years ago. So let's say we add a guy like Jabari Smith Jr. or if we fall in the lottery, like a guy like Ben Matherin. You know, these are athletic guys who can shoot. They come in and they can be plug and play and impact players maybe right away or within their rookie year. And then we have money to spend in free agency. And I think we have a question about that for later on in the episode. But if we want to, we can spend that money. And there are a few impact players that we can sign on or reclamation projects,

whatever you want to call them. We can make improvements. I just think that they're not looking to spend whatever money they have. They are committed to like a timeline where it's like, yeah, right now we are losing, maybe for draft picks, maybe for the sake of development. but at some point there is going to be a pivot. And I think that's going to be within one to two years. I would say that I know that much has been made, and we've talked about this,

much has been made about the fact that the Pistons at many points this season have been terrible. I think that there's being bad and then there's being awful. And I think that the awful play that we've seen at many points this season has added an additional layer of agitation, probably to the players as well as to the fans. I would imagine so anyway. But I think it's also worth looking at the fact that things, a lot of things have gone wrong. A lot of things went wrong for the Pistons to be this bad.

You know, between injuries, just players really underperforming, bad coaching, a roster that was not put together very well. Though I guess you can just call that a management mistake. Of course, that is a management mistake. But I don't think the Pistons were ever meant to be this bad. I mean, I don't think the Pistons were not this bad. Last year, you can chuck that down and part up to, you know, to some of the veterans who were on the team.

But this season opened up in disastrous fashion. I don't think there was any intention. whatsoever on the part of management for the pistons to open up and be this bad, let alone to like the shooting, the efficiency has been horrendous. I don't think that was by design. I think just a lot has gone wrong. I don't think they expected for example like, okay, we're going to have Killian back in a larger role and he's going to be one of the worst players in the league.

I don't think they expected, okay, we've got Frank in for shooting. He's going to start terrible. We have Kelly in for shooting. He's going to get injured. Yeah, so I don't think that the sort of shameful display, of sort of character to some of the season was intentional. I agree with Tommy. You want to do it right because you're not going to get this opportunity again to just say,

okay, we're going to do this on a plan. We're going to have our cap space. We're going to spend it wisely. We're going to spend it judiciously. And sure you could go all in. And I think the Pistons, if they wanted to go on and spend a lot, could maybe be a playoff team next season. But the trouble is that you've just spent all of your money, all of your cap space for the

near future on a couple of players, you know, on some players who are not high impact and this is just not going to build you toward a championship. So I think it can get frustrating for young players if they are not seeing any progress at all. But as long as you're moving the right direction, I think things are cool. Like, you know, Trey Young, great score. Just an example. Didn't make the playoffs until his third season, for example. And like Devin Booker, though, you know, say empty stats.

A lot of people have said that about him didn't really do anything until goodness. He came into league in 2015. his first playoffs in 2021? I'm not sure. Yeah, it might have been. They were bad, not that long ago. So, I mean, also don't underestimate the degree also. I mean, though, hopefully we don't have to, hopefully the Pistons don't have to bank on this.

Don't underestimate the attachment that some players have to their teams, their cities coming in and saying, well, I was drafted here. I was brought in here, and I want to make it work here. Sure. And that's, and we can only hope that Kate is, you know, that type of value. I'm confident. I'm confident that Kate is by, you know, one of, one of, one of one of, one of one his strengths was just his ability, it is his ability as a leader and just the character he brings. But to be clear,

that has a limit, right? The moral victories only go so far. Yeah. But we're far from that point, though. Well, I would say this because we just talked a lot about doing it right and what the best way to proceed is

and under what parameters we're going to proceed forward. And I think a lot of that starts with a very critical decision here. And that is to trade or not to trade. right that's the jeremy grant question so i think there are are a number of things to unpack here first of all do you trade them right because as we've heard the pistons seem amenable to the idea that they could keep grant around if the offers aren't sufficiently uh you know satisfactory but also too if you do trade him where do you trade him what is the return how does the return factor into the future timeline of the team and i think that this is really that first big critical

decision in the Cunningham era of Detroit basketball that could define things going forward. So where do we stand Tommy and Mike on the Grant front? Well, on Grant, here's one thing about Grant. And we've all been, you know, gotten our share of laughs out there. And I know this is a complete A-side. And it's be ranting a little bit about today's era of nonsense, incredibly low-quality, comical, click-bay journalism. And so, of course, you have the internet awash, first of all, with just stuff from bad sources,

but also just, like, I miss the old era of journalism in which people were actually paid and did this as a career. And that was the average content you got. And just in terms of sports journalism altogether. Today, it's, of course, let's put up this title. And so hopefully somebody clicks on it and we get the ad revenue. And often the article is written more poorly than the title. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, of course, there's all been this all stood, you know, the biggest one that's been thrown around.

And this is actually reported that it's, it's been offered. There's not a lot of hard data on this. I'll tell you my opinion of reliable sources. There are very few sources whom I actually listen to. Shams and Woj, of course, report news. Mark Stein, I think he's been around for a long time. He's been reliable. Zach Lowe has his sources.

He's been around a long time. He's reliable. And you have a lot of other sources like Jake Fisher, for example, guys who, who it's a sleazy model, but I think it's intelligent. They know that they're much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much more likely to be remembered for their hits than their misses, even if their misses outnumber their hits by a significant margin. Like we've seen this in the NHL, like those of we've been around the NHL team for a

long time, Eklund, the guy from hockey buzz, back in the mid-2000s, before Twitter even existed, was just throwing out nonsense, quote-unquote insider news that, he claimed was from his sources, and it rarely turned out to be accurate, but people still flocked to him because it's like, okay, well, at least we have something here. And he's still around. It's like 15 years later, which I didn't know until this morning, but, you know, whatever. Guys like Fisher, though, I don't doubt that they have some sources, but also perfectly willing to report news that is maybe they have some sources that are not very good, or maybe they're just hearing some things and choose to report them, but a lot of it turns out to be untrue. One thing we did, he's

year was that from Mark Stein was that the Lakers did make that offer of Talen Horton-Tucker and Kendrick Nunn and a first-round pick, which is comically bad, and is being mixed up by Lakers fans. They're conflating the only assets we have left with a good offer. That is a terrible trade. Horton-Tucker was a 21-year-old who has gotten worse and worse from the perimeter, and all that, you know, in his three years so far, he can't shoot. He's nothing special right now. Kendrick Nunn is of no use to the pistons, and he'll opt out this summer. That 2027 pick will be protected and it's five years down the line anyway. Yeah, well,

well, hang on, Mike. I mean, according to the Lakers fans on Twitter, that's a great trade and we're idiots for not taking it. They're giving up too much. Yeah, of course. You know, the Lakers are just giving it.

He's a future All-Star. And, you know, there's no need to explain why, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just really quickly break in? Just a very quick aside, I think fans of sports in general know that there's always that one team,

right, which is the media, darling of whatever league we're talking about it. In the NBA's case, it's the Lakers. In the NHL's case, it's the Leafs. And in the NFL, excuse me, in the NFL's case, it's the Cowboys. And so I think fans of those teams, because it's all about them, all about them, all of the time, you know, they overvalue their own players.

So I would urge you to have a little bit of sympathy for these poor wayward souls who think that, you know, THT and a 2039 first round pick is a good recirm for Jeremy Grant. They don't know any better guys. They don't. Yeah. Right. I think that. Yeah.

You're forgetting, though, that they can also trade Mr. Dr. Pepper and Mr. Frito is. Oh, of course. Yeah. And I wonder if that'd be preferable, actually. Yeah. So, yeah, it's like, here's like the three things I would say. Anybody who's putting it together like a mock trade proposal I have to think of. Like just three general rules.

Number one, you have to give value to get value. that's just the way it is. Number two, and this link is number one, no team is going to trade treasure for your disposable parts. And number three, perhaps above all, you should not have to rationalize your trade proposal. If it is not immediately obvious why the other team would be interested in this trade,

it's almost certainly a bet trade. Yeah, good trades are usually when both fan bases kind of come away with it from, like, it's like, oh, I don't love that because we gave up a lot. That's usually the sign of like a trade that actually makes sense. A lot of these grant proposals that I've seen have been underwhelming, and a lot of them are centered around players that really don't fit our timeline or they're injury prone. And Dante, as you were making this transition into this segment, you brought up the idea

of trade or to not trade. Like, I think that's an option that people have maybe kind of forgotten. Like, I know people are excited. It's like maybe we're getting something new, something interesting, something that's younger, fits the timeline nicely. But Jeremy Grant is still a player who could conceivably fit. our timeline. He's still only 27 or 28. I think he is a viable third option on a championship team. And players like that, they don't come around that often, especially not to Detroit and free agency.

So I don't think we are under pressure to just make a trade for the sake of making a trade. I know that he's extension eligible and maybe that's more than the Pistons are willing to pay. That's something that's been in the news. But I don't want to just get rid of Jeremy Grant for the sake of getting rid of Jeremy Grant at all. let's say three benefits, or really three things to think about. Number one, yeah, he'd be eligible for that extension. He's going to be 29 when his current contract runs out. Players in the NBA generally do not age gracefully into their mid-30s.

Like, granted, he'd be, you know, like, he'd be 33 at the end of that extension. But you'd be starting to see it, perhaps starting to see a decline at that point. It's just, it's dicey. You just never know. It's a pretty select group of players who maintain high performance into their 30s, especially once you get 32, 33, 34 years old. It's really young players. Number two, Grant might mean more wins in the short term for a draft that may continue

to be critical for the Pistons. You know, who knows? Maybe they win these days. They win an extra three games. And that's what gets them the number one pick with their lottery position, but maybe not. And finally, and this is just a personal thing. And I think it's actually salient with the young players are concerned. I want Jeremy Grant kept away from Dwayne Casey.

Now, this makes it sound like I think that Dwayne Casey is going to hurt him. That's not the case. The case is that Dwayne Casey is a simple offensive coach. And if he has a veteran to him, he can hand the ball and say, please just take it and do something, whatever you can with it. He's going to do that. He's going to do it a regular basis. We've seen how the offense looks different without grant in it.

So I would say if you can get a good deal, I think it's value might be highest at this Devline. If you can do that, pull the trigger. If you can't, then you wait it for the offseason. And then I would say pull the trigger then. because I don't think that when this team is ready to compete, even if KASY is not the coach, I agree that Grant can be absolutely a number three guy

on a championship team, which is what makes him so valuable, but I'd rather the Pistons continue focusing on upside right now. But there is that value line. If you can't get that value, then you consider keeping him. I'm in a weird place with Grant myself because I think that you have all these competing brands of logic, right, that you could apply to the situation. to sort of decide, okay, what's the best course of action here?

And I think Tommy's been championing this for a while, you know, this idea that, listen, if you don't, if you don't get a good offer for Grant, you don't have to trade him because he's still young. He's still a good player. He can be a third option on a championship team. He chose to come here. And what always gets lost in this argument, right, is just how good Grant is. he wouldn't have generated all of this interest league-wide if he wasn't a good,

valuable player. So I see all of this rationale for keeping him, but then I go to what Mike said, right? Then I go to, I just can't do the Dwayne Casey coached Jeremy Grant. I just, I don't like what the offense has looked like with him out there this year. I much prefer what the team looks like when Cade is the main guy. And I don't think I trust Casey, you know, having Grant as an option to really fully give the reins to Cade. I just don't trust it. So I think right now I see the benefit of keeping him. I see how that might be good for the Pistons long term.

But I also think too if I had to decide, I think I'd want to ship him out just because of what the team looks like without him. Now, of course, that comes with what are you receiving, right? And I think unless it's something like that Patrick Williams level of return, maybe then you bite the bullet and keep him. But for right now, it's just there's so much going on that I don't know what's going to happen and I'm not even sure what I want to happen. Yeah, I think that it's worth reiterating that the reason why Grant is is such a valuable

commodity on the trade market is that he can, I think he's a guy who could definitely put up around 20 points per game and good efficiency. He can create some of his own offense. Basically, he can be that third option in a championship team, and he plays strong defense still at a good age at the moment for a team that wants to compete on a bargain contract for the next season and a half and extension eligible come the off season. So, yeah, I mean, but if, let's say the Grizzlies, and I have no idea if this is likely or not, let's say the Grizzlies throughout, like, an offer you couldn't refuse, for example, would be like Zaire Williams and the Lakers first. I think at that point, you just say yes, and you don't worry about anything else.

So I think there's, if the business for getting an offer like that, I think it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be ideal for them to say no, even if Zaire is, it's just a high upside player with an uncertain, with probably uncertain future. I'm just curious, but you guys think about where would that value line be? Or if you just can't get a better offer than this, you keep him. Well, I think I said it when I just last. I think it's in that Patrick Williams range, right? Like, I think you have to acknowledge here at a certain point that Grant. And Pistons fans have a lot of trouble understand, because we just haven't seen it a lot through our Pistons fandom, right?

That we have a player who's so valuable that there may very well be a bidding war. And I don't think that that should be discounted. Honestly, I think that Weaver should really pillage these other franchises for everything they're worth if they're able to pry grant from us. So I think I've been seeing some reports out there that the Bulls want to try to work something out without Patrick Williams involved. And I think that's where I draw the line. I think what you really need is a solid, like, and I'm talking really solid,

like potential to be very good young prospect and a pick. If we can't garner that, like if I'm looking at the return and I'm saying, then I probably would have rather kept them. Right. I would say Patrick Williams, I think he's probably on the high end of the returns we might get at this point. It seems like Chicago very much values him. And they should.

He was a project pick and he was meant to be good down the line. I think Chicago has just been better than they thought they were going to be. And maybe that does move up their timeline. But with Jeremy Grant, I mean, maybe teams. are kind of banking on the idea. It's like, okay, maybe they don't have all the leverage. The leverage, I think, right now, does come from the bidding more that you mentioned, Dante. But if that doesn't exist or, you know, teams just don't have the assets that we're really looking for, maybe it's not the return that we want. And in that case, I would rather just wait till the offseason,

because maybe there are going to, there will be more options at that point. Maybe there are more opportunities at that point, like for like a sign and trade type deal. Because not just because of that, but because the stepping rule restrictions in the office at the draft are going to be significantly less because teams can just trade a play. Teams, which cannot trade that pick right now because they would be without picks in first round picks in two consecutive years. At the draft, they draft the player and trade them right away. That doesn't violate the stepping rule. Yeah. Right.

That's a great point. Yeah. It's stuff like that. So I would rather wait to this off scene. I don't want us to lose our leverage because we're desperate to trade him. but at the same time, I don't want to trade him for the sake of trading him. I agree. I have one concern, though, is that I think that the wins of late are,

there has been some progress. Some of the things that have been going drastically wrong are no longer going drastically wrong. And let's say you bring Jeremy Grant back and maybe Casey uses him differently or something is the way that Casey uses him is just bad for winning, you know, no sense of butts there. And who knows, maybe the Pistons rattle off some wins as the season goes on and that hurts the draft position. I mean, I don't, I think there's a situation in which the Pistons might sort of catch lightning in the bottle a little bit in the worst sort of way. Like lightning in the bottle such that like in the last 20 games, they go 500 and end up far short of the plan, but are like the eighth worst team in the league or the seventh worst team in the league. And that's a terrible place to be.

Sure. And I don't want to, before we start jumping into, you know, more general topics, right? Because we sort of deviated from Grant a little bit. I don't know if now is a good time to jump into the user submitted questions because we have maybe then we could focus up a little more on what the Pistons want to do moving forward. I know Tommy's compiled. We got a good amount this week and some good ones. I know Tommy's compiled some. So I don't know if we want to go ahead and start firing those off.

Yeah, make it happen. Yeah, absolutely. There was one, well, yeah, we were talking about the offseason and some of the ideas. Dante, you had mentioned maybe, you know, what's the timeline for improving the team? there was one here that says potential sneaky free agent fits or trade targets that aren't in the rumor. So if we're just focusing on the free agents, I don't know if you guys have ideas, but I have one in particular. And it's, I don't know if it's just because it's one of my favorite players or because it's actually viable. But I'll let you guys go first if you have them.

Are there players that you want on this team? I'm going to elect to give my answer time to Tommy because I know Tommy's super passionate about what he's going to say. So I'm going to defer. I don't know if Mike wants to go first, but I'm defer. All right, Tommy. I know I can tell you thought this through maybe a little bit. I haven't seen the question, so I'm going to have to think it through a little bit. So absolutely, well. Right.

So this is something I was talking about with another friend of mine. And the idea, I don't know if you guys remember a few weeks ago when we were talking about Jeremy Grant Trade scenario. One of the guys I really liked was Anthony Simons. And since that episode has dropped, he's actually had the opportunity to step into the starting lineup. up and he's been phenomenal. And he's probably earned him. He's probably doubled his contract value easily because he was coming off the bench for Portland.

And as a starter, he's been the score that people knew he could be. But Portland is kind of an interesting situation, not to go too deep into it. But they're looking at paying a stupid amount of money to Damian Lillard, C.J. McCollum, Norm Powell. Yeah. And then they'd be paying the salary cap just about if they were to pay like $20 million to Simons. Yeah, they beat about the cap on their guards alone. Just on a four guard rotation, and that's not really viable.

So Portland needs to look to trade two of those guys, at the very least one. You still don't want, like, I think Powell has been playing small forward for them, but it's not an ideal position for them. It's terrible. It's awful on defense. Right. So if Portland is looking to tear it down, then maybe they do want to keep in for any Simons, or maybe in the off season if they're like,

look, we're not going to be able to pay this guy and we're not finding good value for CJ and Powell. Maybe they are looking to trade him for a position of need. So maybe there is an opportunity there for like a sign and trade with Grant. Or maybe the Pistons are one of the very few teams that actually has a lot of cap space in the off season. Maybe you just throw a lot of money at Anthony Simons and you try to play him as you're starting two guard.

Over the past 10 games, I had the stats here earlier. Yeah. past 10 games he's been shooting 42.2% as a starter against great competition. And again, this is him as a bench player. So this is his first real opportunity as like a focal point of the offense and he's taking it in stride. He is a phenomenal score. He would provide a ton of spacing.

His defense would be the problem. Mike, I know you like the idea of like the supersized, you know, five great defenders lineup. You lose that. But you do gain a lot. in the way of scoring and spacing and you relieve the pressure off of Cade Cunningham a bit. So if I'm just picking one guy, I would definitely take, I want to throw a lot of money at Inferney Simons. My limit right now would probably be $24, $25 million. I just think, I think that highly of

Anthony Simons is potential. And he's only 22. Yeah, you convince me. I don't know what Mike has to say, but I'm, yeah, I'd vote for that. Yeah, I'd vote for that. So I think that the situation, in Portland, just because they're in such a weird place as far as management goes and also ownership. So Paul Allen, who was the owner of the Trailblazers, died a few years ago. And I believe it's his sister who's in charge of the team now, and it's just the trust. She's not really, I don't think she's in charge of, in charge of the team per se. I think it's kind of a fiduciary thing. But yeah, if you, things just could easily turn into a mess. Neil Oshley, who's the old GM for the Trailblazers, was awful. I mean, unambiguously awful.

And so the team is just in a weird position right now. I agree with Tommy with you fully. They have to get rid of two of the guards, you know, if they're going to field a balanced team. The last good forward they had was a Marcus Aldridge. And they've just been comically weak outside of the back court since, yeah, you probably have to trade Powell. That's probably pretty easy to do.

He's on a fairly reasonable contract. He's a good producer. What you're going to get back from is anybody, you know, anybody's guest. C.J. McCollum is on a max contract. He's in his 30s. He is not a good player away from Damien Will. Billard, they're probably not going to get back much from him.

So I don't know. Maybe you keep those two. And if somebody throws a big offer at Simons, you say, well, we're just not willing to wager that much money on half of a season. This assumes that he continues playing this well. Of course, if you're the Pistons, you're wagering a lot of money off half of a season. So, you know, subject to change. I mean, it really for me depends on how long he would, how long he continues playing

as well. But if he does make it happen, and by all accounts, you know, obviously he's really been focusing in this defense too. So great. Then sure, you know, throw a figure out of him in the off season. The worst thing that happens is that the other team says no. That Portland says no. But having that a lead shooting would be great and he can create off the dribble.

So for others as well. Yeah. If we're talking just a trade target, just a low key, sneaky trade target for a low price, perhaps. I might look at another one of Tommy's old favorites. Tommy's loved Anthony Simons for a long time. this is another player who he really liked a couple years back. That'd be Nikol, Alexander Walker, who has been horrible, horrible this season for the Pelicans, like actually terrible.

This is his third year, and who knows with that team, which is just an absolute and utter mess right now. You know, maybe they found some of the way to last season promising. He has been absolutely terrible this season, but I think he still has potential. So maybe he's a player you can get for a relatively low cost. There's Marvin Bagley as well. That's not new.

we'll see what happens at the devline around him. I haven't been very impressed with him either, and the Pistons would have to give him another contract unless they just had him in for like a two-month flyer. And I don't think the Kings will let him go for nothing. One I have seen brought up that I wanted to clarify on Jalen Smith. So one thing about Jalen Smith, if you trade for him, the team which trades for him cannot pay him any more than $4.7 million in the offseason.

And it is because the Sun's declined his third-year option. There's a clause in the CBA that's intended to prevent teams from declining an option and then paying the player more money. So because the son's declined his option, neither they nor any team which acquires him can pay him more than $4.7 million in the off season. So almost total waste because if he plays well for you, another team can just swoop in and offer $4.8 and you're screwed.

No, that was a good look outwards, right? Let's turn the looking glass inwards a little bit. And I think we have time for one more question here, but we're going to try to focus it up a little bit. So this was a question basically asking about the young players on the roster. The young guns specifically. So let's call it Killian Hayes, Sadiq Bay, Isaiah Stewart, and Cade Cunningham. Let's just stick with the four. Okay. So what's one thing, and we'll do it rapid fire here, what's one thing that you would like to see each of the young guys

improve in the offseason going into next season. So I don't know, I think I'm going to kick it to Tommy here. Mike, you can jump in after that and then I'll give a brief little overview of the three, or the four rather. Yeah, rapid fire, I would just have to say shooting. It's, it's been the biggest problem this season. It's come along a little bit more, but I think a lot of the improvements off the season have been on the backs of improvement from Corey Joseph and Trey Liles, and that's the veteran aspect. But if Isaiah Stewart, we've seen it these past few weeks, he is looking to shoot it a bit more. And if it does come along and it becomes something where he is able to draw his defender away from the rim a bit, that would really open things up

on the interior. And then if guys like Sadiq and Killian, obviously, if they can keep guys close to them that's just going to make things all the more easy for Cade because now he's getting to the basket with a lot more consistency. He's making it look so easy. It really all just revolves around making things easy for Cade and making the most of this vast amount of talent that he has. So if we're going rapid fire, it's just between the, with each of the four players. So with Cade, turnovers, I mean, I'm perfectly, I'm fully confident he'll continue to improve as a shooter. I mean, he's already showed everything he can do is, you know, that he can already do as a shooter. I'm perfectly confident he's going to be.

taking those pull-up threes. That'll become just a good three-level, a very good three-level score altogether. So I would say with him, just continue to work on the pace of the game, on knowing which passes you can throw, which passes you can't throw. And also, I know this is two things. Strength, which I think, again, will just happen. He's got a lot of strength he can put on, which will be helpful to him. For Sadiq, motion shooting, I'll, I've said before, I'll say it again.

I don't think Sadiq is a creator who can shoot. I think Sadiq is a shooter who can do some creation under certain circumstances. I have thoughts and continue to think that motion three-point shooting, or the pull-ups around screens off handoffs, is his next frontier, and that he's going to do most of his damage from the perimeter. Stewart, also shooting. He's going to need to be able to shoot, period, in order to be anywhere near. I mean, not that we're worrying about returning on draft position,

but to be anywhere to just be a good player, he's going to need to be able to shoot because we know what is false. are. You know, he's short, you can't jump. That's a major disadvantage to his position. So if he can shoot, then cool, he offers more. I still don't think he'll be able to be a starter. But that's fine. Strong bench center. Cool. And Killian, if I had to say one thing, you know, geez, there's this, how was it put to Sopranos? We've got to, you know, screw our courage to the wall or something like that. Something like that. Yeah, that was Uncle Jr.

You know, Killian has got to be willing to drive any contact. I mean, Killian has a lot of problems. This is a player right now. He is right now, he has been remarkably bad in the NBA so far. He is a sub-replacement value player at the moment. You know, just for the lingo, this basically means you could sign just a player to a minimum contract, and he would provide more value than Killian. That's just the case right now. But I think Killian's future in the league is as a ball handler.

If he's going to have a future, it's going to be as a ball handler. That is where a lot of his utility is found. And he can't do it if he's not willing to drive into the paint and take contact and, you know, and be a threat in that capacity. You cannot be a successful ball handler. And I don't think he's going to be a lead ball handler on this team for obvious reasons. But if he's going to do it anywhere, if he's going to increase his effectiveness, it has to start with that because it's just, his court vision is passing.

It's his basketball IQ, all of which are good, you know, unambiguously good are, you know, those all fall in that role of being a handler. And if you want to do that, you have to be able to break down defenses. in a Denver game he pulled a Ben Simmons. I mean, well, number one, I watched, you know, he was, everybody was, I mean, he was, he was running the offense himself for about four minutes and the third. It was a disaster. But yeah, he also had an open bucket and passed it. So, yeah, that's what it would be from me.

Yeah, he's currently a zero level score. He's awful. He's awful. He's terrible. Yeah, it's absolutely awful. And he, so like, yeah, work on, I don't know if it's confidence, but you got to have the gumption to drive hard into the lane and accept that contact. Yeah. No sense or butts.

You have to be able to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's Yuri Mike. So as you were going through or going down the list, rather, naming one thing for each player, I was thinking, oh, surely he's not going to take my thing the next time. And every single thing I was going to say for every single player you said. So I guess great minds think alike.

But I guess I'll just briefly reiterate to close out the episode. So yeah, for Isaiah Stewart, it has to be shooting. You know, I'd love to say, oh, he needs to jump higher. He needs to get taller. But that's not going to happen. So given his physical limitations, the only option for Stuart to be, to fully realize whatever potential we may think that he has is to be a good shooter. With Sadiq, yeah, motion threes, sure. Another way to put it is just every type of shooting that does not involve simple catch and shoot threes.

I think that that's sort of the key to unlock his full potential. With Cade, it's very clearly the turnovers, I think. I thought about going for, you know, drawing contact and getting to the line more. but that sort of just comes with, you know, the better your reputation is as a good player in the league, the more generous your foul calls are going to be. So that's sort of just going to come with experience and age. But the turnovers need to be, you know, guys who handle the ball as much as Cade, who play the position that Cade plays, who are as young as him, they're going to turn the ball over a lot. Great passers do turn the ball over a lot. But a lot of these turnovers have not just been, you know, rookie mistakes, speed of the game type thing.

A lot of them have been lazy and a lot of them have been sloppy. And if there's one criticism of Cade's game that I have to this point, it's the fact that he has not done a good job taking care of the basketball. And this is something that happened with him in college too. So I think that'll be a point of emphasis for him transitioning into the year, into year two, excuse me. And then for Killian, it's just figure something out that makes you an NBA player. I don't know what aspect of that game it is.

But right now, Killian does not belong in the NBA. He doesn't belong in the starting lineup. He doesn't even belong on a bench. and he needs to find one aspect of his game, maybe building upon these traits that we can all admit are good, right? His vision, his defensive hustle, you've got to find something that makes you a valuable player or at least a replacement level player out on the floor.

So as far as things to improve, that would be my rapid fire answer. And if nobody else has anything to add, I think that's going to do it for today's episode. So we appreciate you listening and we will catch you next time. Thank you.