Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 85: Bagley First Impressions, Saddiq Bey’s Progress, Cade Lineups, and More

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

This episode shares impressions on Marvin Bagley's debut, discusses Saddiq Bey's continued progress, explores some oddities about Cade Cunningham's common lineups, and says yet more nice things about Hamidou Diallo. 

You're listening to Drive into the Basket, part of the basketball podcast network. I am Mike, joined today by Tommy, just a two-man show today. And Tommy, how are you doing? I'm good, man. How are you doing? I suppose I'm doing just fine. So we're just going to head right into Marvin Bagley now. I know there's the big hot button topic for last night's game, acquired by the Pistons on the day of the trade deadline. And our last episode, we did some profiling of them.

So we're just going to head right into it with what we liked, what we didn't like from the time. we saw him in the game against the Washington Wizards. I believe it was 10 pounds, excuse me, 10 points, 8 rebounds. And yeah, Tommy, what did you see that you liked? I liked the post play. The athleticism really in general. I was excited for this one. I really wanted to see more in the way of Killian and Bagley pick and rolls.

We didn't get to see a lot of that, but just the extra athleticism. You can already see that it's useful. Bagley was aggressive and he was really trying to score. And that alone, you know, it's a welcome site compared to. the current center rotation of Stewart and Olinick, who has really been struggling lately. So I thought it was a good showing for his first game. You know, you haven't really integrated into the team. You haven't really established a role yet.

So just the fact that he was going in, getting his own shot, and putting in a few. That's encouraging to me. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely the athleticism is a much-needed infusion. Obviously, the Pistons, we've talked about this many times, went into the season with a front court, which was lacking and a particularly important category, notably. the ability to jump. The Pistons, I believe, aside from maybe the Thunder who are starting Jeremiah Robinson

Earl, although I believe even they have a backup. I don't have the roster in front of me. They at least, I believe, have a backup who can jump. The Pistons that would make the Pistons the only team in the league without a single big man who is both tall and can jump. Unfortunately, Isaiah Stewart is not tall and can't jump. Kelly Alenic, a little bit taller, also can't jump. Lukagarza, I believe, is the tallest of them all, and also the least vertical.

So it just takes away so many options, especially in the role. I did like, obviously, most athletic member of the front court right now, moves well. It's strong interior score. Everybody is always known that he is a potent interior score. I mean, he's just got a very good touch around there. So that much was good to see. Also strong in the boards, has always been strong in the boards. Now, as far as what we didn't like so much, I mean, bear in mind, of course, this is only one game.

The guy isn't fully integrated into the team. but there are some qualities that he's struggled with, put it that way, in the NBA since the very beginning. And hopefully the Pistons can coach those out of it. Much has been made about the fact that he played for the Kings, and the Kings are the Kings. And for those of you are not familiar with the Kings. It means that the Kings are the only organization that has been a bigger mess than the Pistons over the last, you know, last one Chanty Billups ago. So what did you see that you weren't as big a fan of? Yeah, the defense immediately stood out to me.

It's a combination of lack of awareness and I guess just low IQ. There were just so many points in that game where Bagley should have switched and he just didn't. Like he would stay on his man. It's something that you kind of alluded to when we were profiling Bagley. You said that at Duke, they would just run zone because Bagley just couldn't switch. He just doesn't have it in him right now. He doesn't have the recognition to make more advanced defensive rotations. And it really hurt the team.

It led to a lot of open threes on the perimeter where guys were trying to communicate and he just wasn't making the switch. And then, you know, as the center functionally, he's supposed to be calling out those defensive assignments and communicating. So it's a real problem. And it's going to be a long road before he just becomes a passable defender. So even if he looks good offensively, I think it's probably going to be more than negated by the fact that his defense is so bad. but that's that's the big negative that stood out. Yeah, I agree with the defense. There were also instances in which he just ended up in the wrong place

when he was supposed to be defending the paint. Or he ended up on, it's like you said, he can't switch. He ended up on another guy, a teammate was already defending or whatever. Yeah, so much has been made rightly of his low defensive IQ. That's been an issue form in the NBA. It also makes them kind of an awkward positional fit. It was an issue form in the NCAA also. It was both he and,

dude what's man what's guys Wendell Carter Jr. Yeah, who plays with the Magic now. Amusingly the Magic have ended up with both the seventh and the eighth picks. Eighth pick was Bomba from the very strong 2018 draft. And they are two of the four teams, which really flunked in the lottery, of an extremely strong draft. So, you know, Chicago, of course, drafted WCJ originally.

But yeah, the defensive IQ has been an issue. And as far as positional fit, you know, he can't, obviously can't really play power forward unless he can shoot. Can't really play center unless you can defend the rim. And he's going to be, if he's playing power forward, and I think in general he's going to be spending quite a bit of time out there with Kelly Olinick, who is also not at all a good interior defender. So not the greatest situation.

But again, hopefully it's something you can coach out of him. Like, you know, who knows, maybe you can get to that point. He's here as a reclamation project. And I hope that he can. He's certainly athletic enough to switch and to provide some weak side defense, no doubt about that. As much as we pillory Dwayne Casey, We all allow that he does have skill of development

And his players really like him So there's that as far as I didn't like an offense And again, could just be first game syndrome A Bealey kind of straight line thinker Doesn't really, you know, he had this issue in Sacramento as well Not really thinking about making his offense flow Within the scheme at large. They tried him on just some straight post-up offense

I mean, who knows if that'll be a steady diet for him But it's real hard to make post offense worthwhile in the NBA. Yeah, when I see the post-offense, off and stuff. I'm really more looking to see how that projects into some short roll stuff, because if he is going to become a pick and roll center offensively, it would, well, obviously offensively, it would be really nice if he didn't have to go all the way to the rim to score, because he's not the biggest guy. Maybe there are going to be centers that deny him position or deny him full run all the way to the rim. So if he has a jump hook or like, you know,

a running hook, anything like that would be very, very helpful. But, yeah, I agree with you. It's not something that you, I'm not clamoring for more Marvin Bagley postplay. It's just something that I wanted to see. And, you know, again, first game, it's a way too small of a sample size. We're really just saying these things because he has the reputation for being a poor defender and for, you know, having trouble with defensive IQ. And this just kind of confirms it. This was a perpetuation of those problems.

So it's the prophecy is true, I guess. Yeah. So, I mean, basically when it comes to post up, again, I think that should be reiterated. I mean, the number of players who actually post up on a regular basis in the NBA is more or less Embed, Yokic, Valanchunas, Sabanus, and, you know, that's, and then it just declines pretty steeply from there. But mostly it's just Embed and Yolkich who spent a ton of time in the boast.

So, yeah, so I don't really expect that to become a staple of his offense. What I really wish they had done just to ease his passage onto the team. And again, who knows, maybe there is just a lot of the team. some sort of, you know, game one position, you know, plan for Bagley that it's like, okay, we're just going to do certain things and not other things. They didn't ever just put him in a position at the top of the three-point line, like with Killian Hayes or with Kate Cunningham, but certainly not with Killian, to just set a hard pick and roll with the basket. I mean, it's like, this is exactly what you want to be doing with Bagley. It's something that

Sacramento did not do very much of. You also just really want to be doing this for Killian, too, and for the offense as a whole, but certainly for Killian. Instead, I'm like the first three possessions in which they were on the floor together. Killian twice ended up just isoing, which was really strange to me, and I'd like to think that there was a reason for it, but they're very well, couldn't, you know,

could just not be one. Again, just take him. And if we want to, if we want to talk about these not so, two not so titans of the past under a really shitty coach, but, you know,

you can talk, pardon the language, you can talk about, like, think about what Jackson and Drummond did, for example, again, not because they were good at it. Jackson was good in his first season,

but it's like just give them to Killian, just run a zillion pick and rules. You know, could be good for Bagley, definitely be good for Gillian. Yeah. Yeah, no, you bring up two things I want to mention.

One, they did not run a lot of pick and rolls. And I really only remember, I think, two instances where they tried it. And the one where Bagley actually came up and tried to set a screen and roll, Killian didn't recognize it.

Like, he just didn't attack. He kept the ball on the perimeter. Bagley went inside, and he was, You can tell he was like looking for the ball to do something with it, but nothing happened because Killian didn't attack. So they just need to develop their chemistry there. I'm not indicting them yet. Again, just one game. They'll have one more before the All-Star break. They need time for sure. But that dynamic is something that I definitely want to keep an eye on.

But going back to Sacramento, apparently this is an issue with Bagley on screens. He sets very light screens, and then he rolls very quickly. And this is a criticism that I had for Drummond. And as I kind of learned more about it, it's not necessarily a problem, but you're kind of choosing. So if you're setting hard screens, yeah, you're going to free up the ball handler a bit more. But the person setting the screen is going to be behind the ball handler on the pick and roll. If you set a lighter screen, you're in that moment for less time, and then you're side by side with the roller on the way to the bass. And apparently it's much more effective or it's easier to actually score on a lob when you set really quick screens. But Bagley, I guess it's more of a problem because he doesn't actually generate a lot in the way of advantages when he does this.

So that'll be another thing to watch for. Absolutely. I mean, the idea and the hope was Bagley. We should remember poor Kings fans that they chose not to, they chose Dreb Bagley over Luca because Vladidivoc, who was the general manager at the time, wanted somebody to run pick and rolls with Dierran. Fox. Now, of course, that was one of the worst decisions in the draft of like the past decade without a doubt. And, you know, it is what it is. But the idea with Bagley is that you can set a screen and he is highly athletic. He should be one of the guys who is athletic enough to set a hard screen and then gets the basket anyway. Disagree. And I about, you know, I can't believe I found

myself actually defending the guy with Drummond actually at the beginning back when he was still really athletic. And strangely enough, he went into athletic decline at like the age of 26. But back in that first Jackson season, he was still capable of setting excellent screens and rolling hard of the basket. But Jackson would generally just shoot the ball on his own, so it didn't really matter that much. Whatever the case, I mean, what would you say are the developmental goals you would like to see him make progress on before season's end? Really just being more of half of a good pick and roll duo with ideally Killian Hayes. I think those two have a future on the bench going into next year. I really don't think that either of them are going to break back into the starting lineup.

So I just want to see chemistry developed with those two. And then if Bagley could just learn to switch, because this is a switch-heavy team, and it's one of the strengths of our defense because they genuinely do switch everything. And it's actually quite effective most of the time. But with Bagley on the floor, again, just the first game, they haven't established chemistry. They haven't established, you know, they haven't really had the chance to get the reps in for our defensive program. it was just he stuck out like a sore thumb like he was so bad so if he just learns to switch again sacramento couldn't get him to do it he wasn't never very good at it so it's a big ask but

if he makes progress there he can be a mainstay yeah i mean there's there's again reclamation project means what it sounds this was joss jackson about a season and a half ago joss jackson was a good swing also we'd have done it 10 times out of 10 that's absolutely the move you make is a rebuilding team. And so is this. What I'd like to see out of Bagley, as you said, just the ability to make proper decisions on offense that, of course, on defense, excuse me, that of course is just a necessity. I mean, he was so bad on defense in Sacramento that, you know, he probably wouldn't have seen minutes for a good team. I definitely wouldn't have seen minutes for a good team. So just somehow training that awareness into him. Some players are just still young and haven't gotten

the instincts for it, haven't been coached properly. Some players just have terrible defensive IQ, you know, we'll see which is which with Bagley. But again, we're talking a guy, like, if you look at the current roster, who knows how many of these guys will still be there in three years when the Pistons, hopefully we'll be actually trying to compete for Bagley. Yeah, for Bagley to be one of those. I mean, by the end of the season, we want to see, of course, improvement on defense. He'll have to improve as a shooter, really, because, you know,

you want him to play center, and I think center is where you want Bagley. He's not going to be the kind of guy who's going to make himself a positive on defense in the long term. I think that's fine to say. And if you want to be a non-shooting center, you just kind of have to be good on defense. I mean, no F, center, buts. The shooting improvement would just open up a lot more

in terms of versatility, attack and close out and so on and so forth. So those are the two areas I'd really like to see progress on. And, of course, we'll see how well he fits into the full of the offense looking for going forward. Okay, so moving on to a guy who's played very, very well lately, that is Sadiq Bay. Now, those of you,

been listening all season will know that I was pretty harshly critical of bait. It was really more half him, half the coaching staff. I maintain that the developmental quote unquote plan they put together for him early in the season of just isoing from the perimeter was horribly stupid. It seemed to just completely discombobulate him. Whatever the case, I've been happy whether it's he or the coaching staff, though obviously that plan was abandoned about a month and a half ago, whether it's here or the coaching staff. I've just been very impressed with how he's been, for the most part, just finding good shots and coming up with, or just finding a good balance, basically. Here's how I see Bay.

He is a shooter who can create. Basically, a bread and butter of his game is going to be perimeter shooting. And he's been very good as a season has gone on at doing something he wasn't doing last season, which is just shooting right in people's faces. That's a great skill to have. I mean, for obvious reasons. He's gotten much better at really disdaining coverage and still just making his threes fairly well with a defender like one foot away from him.

So that's been great. He's been doing some motion shooting. That's huge. I think that's his next frontier. As far as how he creates, he just finds good shots. He exploits matchups. He's a smart player. Like last night, he was switched on to Gil, who I don't know. I know that. I'm pretty sure that he's Washington's backup center. He's not a good NBA player. And Bay just took him off the dribble straight away and scored on him. There are players, Bay is not going to be able to take off the dribble. And he seems inclined to not even try, which is great. just because of who he is, if he finds himself in a bad position, it's probably going to be a bad shot. So he's really finding and making good shots on the perimeter, shots that he wasn't able to in the past, and he's finding high percentage looks on the interior. And he's also getting the free throw line more. And not above all, but also important, he's passing the ball.

He's making the right reads, and he's passing the ball off the drive. So I think just altogether, of course, ever since, like the start of the new year, he's been the steadiest player on the roster. and I've been very happy with that. Yeah, I actually am just going to throw it straight back to you. I have a question for you. From the start of the year, I've been trying to figure out what Bay is positionally.

And I guess I've really wanted him to be a two because I think we're a little more deep in our front court and on the wing from our bigs than we are in the guard. So if Sadiq Bay could be like a big shooting guard, that would be really great. And like you have Kate as your point guard and you have that supersized lineup. But the more I watched the season, I feel like, like he's just he's just not a two guard. Even though he is functionally a wing, he's just playing with strength, and I think he's better against big. So where would you classify him as like positionally? Like, would you call him a two or a three or a four? I'd say he's just a forward. Forwards in today's NBA are typically just forwards. You have occasionally a forward who will

flex up the center like Janus. But typically just a forward is a forward these days. I mean, you have you have wings as well. So I guess what I said isn't, it isn't entirely correct. His wing is a shooting guard the small forward, but big kind of stronger guys like Bay. I mean, I saw him play from up close in person. I talked a couple episodes ago about getting to sit on the floor when the Pistons were playing against the Nuggets in Denver. He is big. I mean, not as big as Stewart.

You'd be amazed to see how just absolutely built Stewart is in person. He's like muscles on top of muscles. But Bay is, yeah, is definitely big, definitely strong. And I feel like you're more likely to find the really quick guys at shooting guard. sometimes it's small forward, but your really quick guys are often going to be your guards. You're less likely to find those at, you know, position. You know, at small forward is certainly a power forward, though. Again, most guys are flex these days.

So I think you really want a shooting guard next decade who's going to be able to just really move explosively off the ball. Preferably one who can shoot motion threes. I mean, you look at what Duncan Robinson, for example, does in Miami, not only in being a great three-point shooter, but in that's just the lengths that teams have to go to to cover. him with how he moves off the ball and how he can shoot off the motion, which is so good to have. Or a guy like Hamadu, who if he can learn to shoot, I think, should be the undisputed starting shooting guard of the future because he offers so much. And also because he'd be virtually difficult to guard if he's a good three-point shooter. So no, I would say I'd like Baymore

at Forward. And though you can really initiate from the interior as shooting guard too, like DeMarta Rosen when he was playing shooting guard, he used to post up on a regular basis over guys who were considerably smaller than he was. I just like the position will fit better there. I also think that under a more creative coach, there's some small ball center in his future, too. Really? Yeah. I wouldn't have called that.

I just feel like he's a bit too short for that. I know he's beefy and he's strong, but... Yeah, guys do it. It's still surprising. He's an inch shorter than Stewart. I mean, obviously, he's not going to be running in and catching lobs, but he's a smart defender. He's beefy.

You're not going to be able to back him down very easily. Yep. And if you're just looking for a lineup that has shooting, and I mean, we've seen teams do it particularly in the postseason, just go really small, and it can work. I mean, I think it was it was Nicholas Batum who was playing center for the clippers. It was either he or Marcus Morris when they beat the jazz, when they just went super small against the jazz. PJ Tucker for the Rockets.

Oh, right. Well, yeah, definitely. But Robert Covington, the ultimate small ball. I don't think that was a very good idea. But Bay, yeah, he's solid enough to do that. So under a better coach and niche situations, yeah, I'd say that's his future. But, yeah, I really like him playing a strength game from the interior, which you can do as a shooting guard. then you better have a forward who's really going to be jetting around the perimeter and finding

the proper looks there in place of where you would be otherwise. So yeah, I like him at forward more. Yeah, I definitely seem as like a core piece moving forward. I wouldn't call him untouchable just because if anything, he feels like one of the more movable pieces. I probably shouldn't drop such a hot take. I think, I don't know if we're ready for that. But like when you really consider like the kind of return that he could get you, that's really not super relevant. it right now. The trade deadline's over and I don't think they're looking to move him by any means. But I just think Sadiq Bay is such a valuable player moving forward. And I just think he's phenomenal.

Yeah, no, I agree with you. Over the course of the season, I think he's just gotten a lot better when he's been a three or a four, a four especially. So, you know, that kind of leads to some interesting questions. If you do get really lucky in the draft and you end up with a guy like Jabari Smith who, he is firmly a big forward. So, yeah, no. But I think you got to keep Bay unless you get like a really good offer because he's just so useful and he's a great fit with Cade.

And I think he could slot in naturally on any team. He's not high usage. He's not going to take the ball out of anybody's hands and dominate it and take away from other guys' games. He's just a good role player who makes everybody around him better. So I'm very happy with his progress this season. Absolutely. Also a workhorse.

I mean, the guy plays, he leads the team in minutes per game. Though, I mean, he's only playing. He's averaging about 34 in 2022 so far. But you see he's always the guy who stays in the floor longest in the first quarter, rarely gets in a foul of trouble. Doesn't really seem to flag at all. Doesn't really seem to get tired. Always thinking, always playing for the team, making the right decision.

Now he's making the right decision anyway. He really wasn't earlier in the season. Again, whose fault was that, you know, was it his? Was it the coaching staff force? him into a position which really maximized all of his weaknesses. Who knows, but it's over now. By all means, good for him. As far as him being movable, yeah, I mean, if you find a situation in the future in which

you can toss some draft picks, of course, the picked Oklahoma City, which originally belonged to Houston, we'll have to convey first. But yeah, he's definitely, unless he continues to improve in which case you just don't want to move him at all. But otherwise, he's definitely the kind of player who you just, you toss him and like a first-round pick or two out there for a real difference maker. But that's long-in-hous halberton is movable, basically. is horrible. I will never get over that. Poor Tyrese. Yeah. I mean, what I love about that is that,

you know, according to Woj, who's typically a very reliable source, other teams did not even know Halliburton was available. You know, it's certainly conceivable that they could have gotten a better job, or a better offer, rather. And I kind of feel like this was just another Vevac ran of a deal. He's the owner of the Kings, the perpetually meddlesome owner of the Kings, who chose the one time he wasn't going to medal was the 2018 draft, but they chose Bagley instead of Luca and he wanted Luca. In any case, This just stinks to me of a trade from him where it's like I want Sabanis. Yeah, no. Just to give myself some perspective, I go to the King's subreddit sometimes, and I was reading around there.

They're still heartbroken, by the way. Tyrese Halliburton on Valentine's Day, he dropped a Players Tribune article where he found out that he was getting traded. He thought it was a joke at first. He got a call from his agent, and within half an hour, he was gone. Like, it was that quick. Yeah, nobody even did that. It's just crazy to me.

Yeah, nobody even knew that, I mean, there were no even whispers of him being available. Nobody thought the guy was going to get traded. I mean, that's, and he's been, you know, he's only played a couple games for the Pacers so far, but he's been very good to say the least. And they've got, I mean, this was such a boon for Indiana's rebuild. I mean, you break up that pairing of Sabanis, and Sabanis is a good player. Don't get me wrong. Savonis is a very good player.

He's also kind of like an artificial ceiling sort of player because he has to handle the ball so much. And that just takes away certain options. and you don't really want that to happen with the player at Forwarder Center. And he's legitimately playing center now. Unless it's like a Yokic character. Yeah, a guy who's going to have that much usage. But yeah, I mean, now, so they broke up that pairing. If he and Turner, they'll see what they have in Turner,

who's very bullish on his ability to actually play center rather than spotting out from the perimeter. And you have Halliburton. Like, that's a really good start. Yeah. And Duarte, you can't forget him. Yeah, he's pretty good. Brogden is good, though he's not been so good since his injury. So yeah, they've got that sort of three-headed monster at, in a back court now.

So we'll see. I feel happy for Pacers fans because Indiana's just been kind of like a, they've been such a mediocre team for such a long time. But who knows if they'll be frustrated. Yeah, who knows if they'll actually do anything. But the Central is looking strong. I mean, the Bulls, of course, are where they are. The Caves have been the season's biggest surprise. The Bucks, of course, you have the Bucs.

And then you have the Pistons and the Pacers who are on the up and up as well. So the Central, like the Central and hockey back in 2009 almost had five playoff teams. I figured that this could be that kind of situation in the Central a few years from now, hopefully with the Pistons. Yeah, I think it's going to come down to us. I was just thinking about this because there's been a little bit of discussion around the Pistons community about, you know, who's untouchable on your team or like, who do you build around. And I think the two biggest names have been Cade and Bay. And Cade, I completely understand. stand. I wouldn't even trade him for like some of these older superstars, but Bay, I just think

he's a very movable piece and a piece that like, I could totally see. You package him for a bigger star down the line when you're like, when you're trading your depth for bigger name talent. And it's not a criticism of Bay. He's just a good player that a lot of teams are going to want. So I'm not predicting that the Pistons trade Bay. I just think it's an interesting discussion. You know, there are tough choices that you have to make with the front office. I think that could be one of them down the line. Yeah, it depends on how far he develops further. Who knows?

But, yeah, I mean, it's kind of a player to be heartbroken to have to trade just because such a good dude. Oh, 100%. I don't want to see Bay gone. I want to see a lot of these guys gone. But, you know, I think just the business of basketball, when it is time to compete, some tough trades happen. 100%.

Yeah. No, I was just going to say, remember when Tobias got traded? Oh, that was so bad. I mean, that was one of the few times it felt like crying over basketball. I really like Tobias. Sure, he's overpaid now, like, without a doubt, though I'm happy to see him become option number three in Philly because I think he'll do really well at that. But he's such a good dude.

Like, such a good dude. Yeah. I was, like, NBA jerseys, like, they're like a whole investment, the way that they price these things. Oh, yeah. The markup must be, anyway. I wanted to buy Tobias Harris jersey. And I told myself, if he makes it past that deadline, I will get his jersey.

and the next day he got traded. I was like, well, yep, that's why. Yeah, so the only, the only player I would feel comfortable of getting their jersey right now is Kade. I don't think he's going anywhere. No, I'm hoping he's a Pistons life for sure. Yeah. I mean, I grew up with, I basically watched the Rebbings for a long time,

and that's a team which, to a fault near the end, really kept guys there long term, which isn't easy to do in hockey because you have a set salary cap, though, of course, prior to 2005 the Pistons, And so the Rebbings didn't need to worry about that. There was no salary cap and they could just outspend virtually everybody. But I'd love this to be the kind of team, which just has like the same core going forward for a long time. And I just, uh, it's really a soft spot in my heart for teams like that.

And who knows, maybe that'll be they. Uh, all right, moving on. But first, uh, brief message from Draft Kings, the special sports betting partner of the NBA, bear with me. This is the first time I've done an ad. New customers can bet just $1.00 in any team and get $150 in, free bets if they win. It's that simple. Everybody can play for huge cash prizes with DraftKings Daily Fantasy Basketball contests. DraftKings is giving all new customers a free shot at millions of dollars in total prizes with their first deposit. Download the Draft King Sportsbook app now. Use

promo code TbPN, bet just $1 on any NBA team and get $150 in free bets if they win. That's promo code TBPN at Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. 21 plus only minimum age and location requirements vary by jurisdiction. See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for full list of requirements and state-specific responsible gaming resources. VoIP were prohibited. Minimum $5 deposit. Gaming problem, call 100, Gambler.

In Tennessee, call or text the Tennessee Red Line, 1-800-889-978-9. In Connecticut, call 888-88-88-7-7-77. Or visit ccpg.org slash chat. In New York, call 8778-H-O-P-E-N-Y or text H-O-P-E-N-Y. 4-67-369. Okay, so moving on. this is something that I've noticed and I really just want to raise.

So Tommy, I know earlier in the season, and this isn't and I told you. So I just know earlier in the season, you said that you really wanted K'd to play alongside another handler. Yeah, it's a start. I feel like, okay, well, I'll let you go, but I will rehash what I said. Yeah, early in the season. You wanted him to play originally alongside another point guard. Yes. My idea was for the first 20 games to get him going and get him acclimated, because I wanted him in the starting lineup,

I just didn't want him to get overwhelmed because I guess I was just afraid that he would go the way of Killian, which now obviously, like, they're just such different players mentally. Like Cade, he just, he is rock solid in terms of confidence. But what I wanted was for Cade to play alongside Corey Joseph for the first 20 games. And then after that, hopefully he's acclimated. He's comfortable with NBA ball handling. And you put Frank Jackson next to him for maximum spacing and you give him a good off ball threat. Yeah. I know exactly where you're. you're going with this. I've been frustrated by it too.

Yeah. Yeah. It's more or less that Dwayne Casey maybe in his just very straight-line method of thinking has turned wanting to have Cade. Clearly he wants to have Cade on the floor with another handler and has turned it into Cade has to be at all times on the floor with another handler. Cade

I went through the lineups, has played about 98% of his minutes with either Cory Joseph, Killian Hayes, or Saban Lee. These are not good fits for him. It's almost like Casey is unwilling to let him on the floor without a chaperone. Corey Joseph is having a good season. Like unambiguously, the guy is shooting well.

He's, for the most part, good on offense. And by good season, I mean, for a backup on a not-so-great team. But he's solid. The issue is that he is also highly ball-dominant. He's been hitting his threes at an excellent clip, but he is a naturally ball-dominant player. Also, this is a funny fact. So he is near the top in terms of point guards in the league

in dribbles per possession and near the bottom, at dribbles per touch, rather, and near the bottom in points per touch. It's probably got the worst ratio of dribbles to touch to points to touch in the entire NBA, if I had to guess. You know, say all the good things about Corey as a teammate and as a hard work or whatever. But this is going to be Cade's team. You want to put him on the floor with guys with like four guys who can work effectively off the ball. There's something to be said by sure, you know, learning and teaching him how to play off the ball. But I just, I don't like the way that things are going. I believe the last time he actually got significant run

on the floor as the only handler was the last game against Washington, in which he scored like 12 straight points in overtime. And that was just because Casey stuck with the lineup that was working, not coincidentally, that was Frank Jackson playing alongside him in the back court at that time, you know, for that stretch. And then we haven't seen it again. So I strongly dislike the way that that is, you know, the way that that's happening.

You know, who knows, maybe it's good for Cade, but I don't think so. And I think this is just an example of Casey just not being flexible. Not really much to say beyond that. Yeah. No, I agree with you. I mean, again, I do want K to develop as a ball handler. And I do think he should be the lead ball handler of the future, almost unequivocally. Like, he's unbelievably talented.

And I was just thinking recently, like, his biggest strength is his basketball IQ and his feel for the game. So as he gets older, he's only going to get better. Like, he has a long career ahead of him if he can just stay healthy. I think he can have that, like, Chris Paul type career and impact where he's just incredibly smart. and he just picks apart the defenses mentally, you know, that sort of impact. Instead of just overt athleticism where it's going to fall off a cliff when you turn like 31, that's the sort of thing that you don't really have to fear with Kate, because right now he's just beating guys with shiftyness, dribble moves,

lookaways, all manner of body control and just clever play. So, yes, I do see why it is a problem that Corey Joseph is getting as much run as he is. I remember looking a few weeks ago just at Cade's use. I think, I want to say he was 55th in the league at like 26%. And, you know, at that level, you're pretty close to the guys around you. But for a rookie point guard who, I guess, I don't want to say he struggled early on. Like, that's not horrible. And it should, I should mention, when I looked at this, it was his last 10 games. So this was during his good stretch in January. But yes, there was a quote from Casey a month or two ago where he said, yeah, no, we do want to

look to develop Kadoff ball. And I think that did kind of irritate a lot of people. people, I try to consider why they would be trying to develop Kate off ball. And I think it's just kind of going back to when this team is good, you are going to have guys on this team who are capable of handling the ball and being secondary ball handlers. And that's good because like we've seen, when Kate is like heavily on ball, teams respect him like crazy. Like they are blitzing him with three guys and he has to get rid of it. So if you can give the ball to somebody else and you take advantage of Cade's excellent off ball, gravity, you're going to make things easier. He's always going to help.

So, yeah, I think there is benefit to developing him off ball. Maybe it's for the future, and you don't see the benefit exactly right now. But I guess that's just worth considering. Yeah, it's worth considering, but I think there's also taking it a little bit too far. Like Killian, who has been terrible, is allowed to be on the court himself as the only ball handler. Corey Joseph, of course, is allowed to be by himself and the floor as the only ball handler. Saban Lee when he gets to play, you know, down the stretch of games that are already lost,

gets to be on the floor in his own as the lead handler. Cade, even in garbage time, doesn't get to do it. So it's just, it's a little ridiculous to me, especially because you really want to get him playing in lineups with a functional offense. So, yeah. Unfortunately, I think it's just a product of the fact that Kate is actually a good shooter. He can play off ball, whereas guys like Sabin Lee and Killian Hayes, they really are only effective with the ball in their hands.

Killian, when he was drafted, we thought he was going to be this ball dominant player who's just going to run a million pick and rolls. And that's going to be his bread and butter. And that's how he's going to be effective in the league. And we've seen if you take him off ball, he is completely invisible and useless. So even off the bench, it's, I get what you're saying where it's like, why is Killian getting, you know, the lead role when Kate isn't. It might honestly just be that Cade can play off the ball. So they're using him that way. And Killian can't, which is, it's, it's.

I know it feels like backwards logic, and it probably is. That's not a good reason. That's basically like almost borderline punishing him for the fact that he doesn't suck off the ball. I don't, I think it's more likely. I think it's more likely that just that Casey, again, Casey has a good track record of developing players. So who knows? I mean, who knows when I get frustrated with stuff like this, I think back to, okay, you had Fred Van Fleet, who was not so good in his first season and does that nothing.

And then in a second, and it didn't get much usage in a second season was much, much better. has had nothing but great things to say about Casey. Maybe there's just a method and a methodical approach to this that makes some sense. That's the only thing I can think of. And when it comes down to it comes down to when I get pissed about Casey doing these kinds of things, it's like, okay, well, there's one benefit, which is that the pistons are losing games toward the end of getting another high draft pick. And as long as they pick in the top five, I'll go into the draft lottery, feeling very relaxed.

So that is the one saving grace, though I do get pissed off when I see Casey doing dumb things and he does dumb things a lot. Yeah, I actually lost my train of thought, but you said we've been losing a lot of games. Jeremy Grant has not won a game, like when he's been on the floor in like 19 games. And you see that's that. Yeah, I think there's some circumstance to it,

but Jeremy is, I really wish you could have been gone at the Devline. I don't think he's a good fit here anymore. I don't think he makes any sense for what the persons are trying to accomplish. And I also think that Dwayne Casey is an inherently bad person for Dwayne Casey to be given, not to be given to, but they're just,

they shouldn't be on a roster He shouldn't be on a roster under Dwayne Casey because we know that Dwayne Casey, when he has his veteran who can do some creation, that's going to happen. And Grant with his mid-range pull-ups, like, okay, you might say, oh, we want to try to make him better at those because that's a very valuable shot if you can make it. The fact is the vast majority of players can't make it. Grant is shooting about 35 percent on his mid-range pull-ups. That is worse than an Andre Drummond post up at Andre Drummond's worst from the post.

So it's just ugly. And again, the only saving grace is that it's helping the Pistons lose, and it's very important that the Bistons get a good draft pick. But in the moment, that does not feel worthwhile. I know Tommy, you can watch games and say, okay, well, whatever, they're losing and they need draft position. This is just what I tell myself, which is true, is that, okay, well, at least it's helping them lose, and the moment it's infuriating for me. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I still catch, for as much as I love where we are as a franchise right now, which is crazy to say as we're in last place. Well, I guess, I mean, if you consider it from where I stand,

it's not that crazy. Like, yeah, the losing basketball, it's horrible to watch. And like even in these like closer games like yesterday against the weather wizards with like six minutes left, I found myself like hoping that we would make the shots and we'd win the game. But deep down, I know that it's like the bottom of the standings. It's just very, very close right now. And I think that as we kind of head down the stretch with 24 or 25 games left, it is going to be a shift into, you know, well, we really need talent. And people are going to start looking at the draft and paying more attention to that. And I was talking with one of the beatwriters. I won't say who because they have an article dropping.

But they're getting more indication of who the pistons are interested in. So that's the kind of stuff that excites me. And I guess that's like the silver lining if you want to look for it to the loser. Yeah. I mean, we're both in all three of us, were excited to go into this season. And I think that it's been unpleasant by any stretch, just the combination of the injuries and the underperformance and so on and so forth with some silver linings like Kate, for example. Absolutely.

But yeah, it's not been nearly as enjoyable to watch as I was hoping. Another silver lining has been Hamadu. Those who have listened for a long time, Nomi is kind of like the original Hamidu stand. I don't really stand players, so to speak, but I've always been a big fan. And he still can't shoot. That's an issue.

Casey allows him to take these dumb mid-range pull-ups. He shouldn't be attempting because, like, almost everybody, he's bad at mid-range pull-ups. But not only is he, like, super exciting to watch. I mean, Cade is the other exciting player. He's technically excellent. And Hamadu is just out of this world athletic. I think I just stole a term from Greg Kelzer.

He's just he's just incredibly athletic in an NBA, which is incredibly athletic that's saying something. So I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Hamadu, I've said it earlier in this episode, if Hamadu can become like a 38% three-point shooter, or even better if he can start shooting pull-up threes. I mean, there's your starting shooting guard in the future and you're one giant step closer to having a team that can contend

because, I mean, the guy is, has an excellent motor. He's incredibly athletic. He can stick to guys on defense. He still needs to work on his switching, but he can stick to fast players on defense right now. If he's on the floor with Killian, for example, he's not so fast-footed. He draws the quicker assignments. And he's excellent on the way to the basket. And he also makes the right pass. So, yeah, that would just be huge for the pistons. I mean, and I'd love to see it happen. Yeah, absolutely. Once again, I will give Hamadu his flowers. I totally, like, we talked about it. I don't know if we talked about it on the show, probably. I think I've expressed my skepticism in the past for Hamadu and his potential impact,

and I was just completely wrong. Once Casey gave him minutes, he was good, like, not just good. Like, he's actually an impact player. He's so much fun to watch. And that actually just kind of reminded me of what I, the train of thought that I had lost earlier. We were talking about Casey and, like, his impact. I know this is like a very violent turn, but just talking about like the way that Casey manages minutes and roles. We were talking about, I want to say Killian Hayes, was it? Yeah, I don't remember. Yeah, well. I think, I mean, we're talking about the lineups. Yeah, no, the guys that Casey brings along slowly, when you look at the greater body of work, I know that like going back to the rookie seasons of like Isaiah Stewart and Sadiq Bay when we really

He saw these flashes and we wanted a lot more really quickly. And they were just brought along slowly. I think there is some benefit to that. Maybe we were just talking about Cade. I think maybe we don't. Maybe there's some concern that they bring him along too quickly. I don't think that's as much of an issue with Cade just based on what we've seen from him. But, you know, even Hamadu, like, he started off the season.

He did start the season off really rough. I know everybody wanted to see him. And now that he's playing very well, that's great. but when he was like the first few games before he got benched, like he looked bad. Okay. So here's the thing about Casey. We both know this in case. Two things.

Number one, Casey can't call plays for an offense that use more than three people. And so he's basically after the COVID absences in that time in which Diallo had played very well, Casey basically said he didn't call plays for Diallo anymore, which is kind of silly. Yeah, I think he did the same thing with Christian Wood. Yeah, I don't remember. but basically but Christian Wood was going to have a much easier way in the play because the center, Casey gets the center involved

period. He is one of the three guys. So when Wood was playing center, he was going to get highly involved no matter what. So the, basically when it came to Diallo in the first few games, I mean, Casey, unfortunately still is not really using Diallo to his full potential. His Dielo often just sits in the corner.

And it's like this terrible place for Diallo. It's maximizing his weaknesses, which you can't shoot. As major weakness is a player. And that's a huge weakness. off the fix, while minimizing his excellence as a driver and a cutter. So we've been seeing more of Diel being used as a cutter lately, which is great because he's excellent at it. But, you know, he can catch lobs. He doesn't get to do that, for example. But what they could be using DLO4 is, or here's how I would use him. You run him in a pick and roll, because you can get to the basket really

easily if you do that. And you use him, have him cut explosively on every possession he can. And use him to attack, attack good matchups. Because you see this guy when he gets onto certain matchup he's like a shark he just you get him on to like a slow player or onto a smaller point guard and he knows he's going to annihilate the guy in isolation but case he does none of those three things yeah maybe maybe two to three years from now when we're looking to compete they'll uh flip that switch and uh we'll go straight to the top yeah who knows i hope he is a long-term piece like he's genuinely been a lot of fun absolutely 100% yeah uh you know just just a ton of fun to watch personal favorite was that game against the Raptors in which he had five dunks.

I mean, he's just, he's next level athletic. All right. So let's move on to some user submitted questions. Number one, and I don't know if either of us can really answer this right now, as where would you rank Sharp, Shade on Sharp? I think I'd pronounce that right in your standings. Sharp, yeah, Sharp as a guy who was originally deemed ineligible for the NBA draft and then midway through the NCAA season was deemed suddenly eligible.

Unclear if he'll declare for the draft or not, though the vast majority of players in his position, I would say, would declare for the draft if they were confident of being drafted in the top 10. I don't know too much about Sharp. I think that it's dicey to draft a player on whom you have virtually no data at all at a post high school level. That was the case with Wiseman, of course. But it's more of a sure thing if you're a big, if you can be confident that you can do certain things well. So I don't know. I just don't know. Yeah, I mean, I don't like evaluating prospects off of high school tape. Like, I'm not going to be a scout or anything like that.

It's just like, I love watching, you know, film on prospects and trying to like learn their game and where they foot within an offense. I haven't looked at Shaden Sharp yet. I maybe I will if he, like, fully declares. Because as of right now, they've indicated, like, Caliparian, UK, they've kind of reiterated over the past week or so. Like, yeah, we've talked to Shaden's parents and we've talked to Shaden. we're going to bring them back another year. But I think there's just kind of maybe optimism or an expectation that, you know, NBA front offices are going to be like, no, the NBA is good for developing young players.

What you don't want to do is go the way of like a BJ Boston where you play at a college and you do so poorly that you tank your draft position. Oh, yeah. He was so high. Yeah, he was so high early in the season. Yeah, absolutely. And then they realized. And then he had a horribly disappointing season in Kentucky.

horribly disappointing. Same school, if I remember correctly. I mean... I think Kentucky, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's... You don't want to call it a cautionary tale, but it's just like this could happen.

You could... Or you can just go to the NBA and you're guaranteed your $30-something million dollars and you have all the resources and access of an NBA franchise and they're very invested in your future because they've invested so much into you.

So... Yeah. I wouldn't say that exactly. I mean... It can be less than $30 million if they decline your options, but that's very rare. Yeah, I think Shaden Sharp, even as he stands right now,

like if he were to declare for the draft, I think he'd be top 10. Probably, yeah. So, yeah, that's the thing about college. Yeah, you can completely tank your draft stock like BJB Boston did. There are also very few players who, when faced with that possibility of going straight to the NBA and being drafted in the top 10 and getting millions and millions and millions of dollars are not going to do it. Like you had Miles Bridges, for example, we decided Miles Bridges, very thoughtful player,

smart guy. very few players would do this. He decided that he wanted to stay in college for another year so that he could just get more season. And clearly he respects Tomazzo a great deal. And he probably harmed his draft stock by doing that because if you're a player like him, clearly had a very high upside, and you're staying college, teams really want to see more development. So Miles Bridges, I'm pretty sure if he'd gone in in 2017, which I believe was his first year of eligibility for the draft, that he would have been drafted higher in the event he got drafted 12th, I believe, in 2018, which is... I couldn't tell you. I don't remember.

Yeah, I believe so because it was 11th, I think, because the Pistons had picked 13, which went to the Clippers. And they, yeah, I don't remember. It's other 11th to 13th. But I'm pretty sure he would have gone higher as a freshman because then you're just drafting him pure upside instead of going back in for a year and not really improving. So, yeah, I think he'll be in the draft.

I don't know where I would rank him. Well, no more at the combine, I would imagine, but that's a dicey pick for me. You could compare the situation a little bit to Anne-Fernie Simons. He's another guy who, instead of going to college or playing on a college team. He opted to just train on his own for a year. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah. And, I mean, he only ended up getting drafted at like 24th or 25th. But, I mean, clearly Portland invested in him, and now he's tearing up the league for that team. So 25th. It's possible. Yeah. I mean, you hurt your money, but he's going to get that max. No, that's not what I meant.

I meant that you are, as a team, you're more than much happier rolling the dice like that at pick 24 than you are. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. It's really more from like Shaden's, perspective. Yeah. All right. So who's your ideal free agent in 2023? If we wait until then, here's the problem with the NBA these days. You just never know what's going to happen. You really just absolutely do not know who's going to be available. There's going to be a better class

than 2022. 2020 is a garbage free agent class. Like no if, sense, but your only three good players are going to come on the market technically by declining options. But James Hardin, obviously not, not going to the business. Bradley Deal, not going to the business. And then, until I got injured basically, her next best free agent was Joe Ingalls. I mean, it is a horrible free agent quest for anything better than like mid-tier role players. I think we do kind of, we kind of need to acquire somebody by 2023 because, you know, the capitals and the extensions are going to start kicking in. And at that point, you're kind of in like the Dallas situation where it's like,

we don't have a lot of money to make significant improvements and we're too good of a team to, you know, pull off more high draft picks. I mean, we might lose our pick to Portland or Houston or whoever. owns our pick that year. So, yeah, 2020, I haven't looked at the list, but I know that the pistons are angling for that to be the season. If they haven't spent it all in 2022, that's when they need to spend a lot of money and acquire some talent.

Yeah. I actually have a question for you. If you want to, I mean, do you have anything more to say about this one? Yeah, I will say that, yeah, you've talked about this a lot in the past. Absolutely correct. You do have to plan around when extensions are coming up. Like, Cade will be up for extension in 2026. think, no, 2025.

2025. And Bay will be up in 2024. Stewart, probably not the consideration. You have to worry about Grant, what are you going to do with him? And so you could technically wait until 2024. Bay doesn't have a huge cap hold. Killian Hayes, the team's not going to make its free agency plans around Killian Hayes. So it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to wait until 2024 if there's nobody

you really want in 2023. All right. So what was your question? This is just really more of a thought experiment. I mean, I'm just curious, but I mean, the big names that people are kind of throwing around right now for the 2022 offseason are restricted free agents, DeAndreya and Miles Bridges, and then me, and Fernie Simons. You know it's over. I know it's over. But just for fun or just because, you know, I enjoy paying, if you could pick one of the three, let's say they're all in the same contract.

It's near a max or it's a max contract. But you're for sure, you're prying one of them away. it's your pick. Who would you take? Aiden, Bridges, or Simons? That's such a tough one for me, because my mind immediately gravitates toward the possible.

Like, the first thing that comes into my head is like, yeah, it's highly unlikely any of that, anybody could do that. So it comes down to, not interested in Aiden. He is in a very, an excellent situation for him right now. Because when it comes down to Aiden,

he can't stretch the floor, doesn't shoot threes. He is a good but not elite interior defender, and he's playing with Chris Paul, which is very helpful for any center, even at Chris Paul's, for the NBA, relatively old age, I think he's 38. That could be wrong.

I think 36 or something closer to that. Yeah. So Chris Paul at this point, like none of his athleticism is left. He's still a very good player, but it's very nice to play next to him. He's playing under an excellent coach and Monty Williams, who came out of nowhere to become a very good coach. And just in a good team. So there's certain things he doesn't need to do. And I wouldn't say him at Bridges.

The only thing that concerns me about him is his three-point shooting. If you could guarantee me, that it'll be a 38-point shooting. me, that'll be a 38% three-point shooter, he'd be my choice. Because, you know, with that, he's going to be a star player. If you can guarantee me that he can shoot three, it's absolutely going to be a star player. So, Simon's, we have to see what he'll look like when Willard is back, and how much of his utility goes, yeah, and how much of his utility goes away. I think he'll still be a very good three-point shooter. But Bridges is just so much more versatile. He'd probably be my choice. And maybe there's some Michigan state bias. There I'm, I'm an MSU fan. Yeah. What about you?

Oh, actually, no, I know the answer. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Now, do I... No, I would pick Simons for sure. Now, do we think any of it is possible? I mean, I'd say Aitin is the most attainable. He's also the one I want the least. And honestly, if the sun's, like, make it to the finals, again, there's no way they're winning Aten go unless Sarver horribly cheaps out. And I think it was merited to not give him a max extension in the offseason. I don't think that's a sign that Sarver won't spend. So I don't think he's going anywhere. I don't think Bridges is, I'd say Bridges is definitely not going anywhere. And teams just have so much control over their free agents, or they're restricted free agents, excuse me. It's virtually unheard of for a max level restricted free agent to change teams.

Like, I cannot remember the last time. Because basically the team just has to be willing to say, well, this guy's not worth it. So hit the road. Enjoy your new team. Yeah, I am so upset about the Simon's thing. Like, Lillard gets, like, I'm not happy that Lillard got, got hurt. You know, actually, if anything, it's more for my argument because if Lillard stays healthy and they keep themselves on the treadmill for another year and Simon just continues to rot behind McCall, like two seconds after we came on here and we talked about how Simons is just like, he's a really good player, he's just stuck behind the column. C.J. or Dame gets hurt. He goes in for surgery and then Simons puts the league on notice. Just breaks my heart. You hate to see it. Yeah,

I would 100% pick Simons. Like, I think he would have been a phenomenal fit with Cade. Yeah, who knows? Yeah, I think we won't. We'll never know. No, we're not going to know that until we see how it fits with Willard next season. Though I'll tell you they're going to be a nightmare of a defensive backcourt. I don't mean a nightmare for other teams. I mean a nightmare for the Trailblazers. Yeah, two guards, six-foot-three guards who are not particularly good. Though CJ wasn't particularly good either. I think Simons is worse. All right. Moving on, we had another one that was related to our last question. Direction of the team after this year. Is it worth it to actually, no, that's not the right one. All right. So should we hold on to the Capspace we have or spend it now when we're one of the few teams with Capspace?

The upcoming class is terrible. Like unless by some incredible miracle, you can get Bradley Biel on the team. And I think his next contract is not going to be a very good one because he's fairly injury prone. And he's setting into his 30s at this point and very dependent about his quickness. Even then you take the risk, probably for Beal. But Beal is not coming into the business. I could say that with a pretty high degree of certainty. Do not want Kyrie. And if you're not getting into the RFA's, that's that. it's not worth spending money on bad role players yeah i don't want brunson i feel like he's like the most likely attainable uh free agent i just don't want him i don't want to spend my like like what do you

think the aavv is going to be there for brunson like 20 probably fairly high yeah that that's what he's looking for and if i were dallas i would never let him go mark human has made references to ending up in luxury tax hell next year that was his words uh those were his words rather and so i think brunson isn't going anywhere it's like you said dallas didn't get to accumulate much talent and they cannot let him go. I don't think he's a good fit with the Luka at all. Dallas has been winning games chiefly on defense and their defense, you know, if the on-off numbers are correct, I mean, Dallas's defense without Brunson is very, very good and not, it's not so great with him or not nearly so good. So yeah, they...

Anything I could totally see them. I'll go ahead, my bet. No, I was just say, I think they'll keep him or, and if you keep him, you can always trade him. Yeah, yeah. As far as the pistons and using their cap space, yeah, I think you throw big contracts at all these, you know, restricted free agents just because, you know, you're not going to have that opportunity. You can't, you can't, because it ties up your cap space, so you can only only put out one offer share. Oh, yeah, I mean, like not all three of them at once.

Fine, yeah. I would say this here that you can absorb some bad contracts, but you really don't want to absorb a bad contract that lasts two seasons, and teams are unlikely to really, unless they really feel like there aren't many teams with caps space, period, unless you have a team that wants to do a sign and trade or something, sorry, I can't even do those mechanics, in my head right now. Yeah, I don't think that... Right, yeah, that's what I was going to say. I think it's more likely we use it to facilitate other moves. Yeah, but the weakness of this free agent class means that salary, one-year salary dumps are much less likely. You have to have a

team that's close to the cap, and you have to have a team that really wants that cap space for a free agent. So unless it's Brunson, for example, I don't think it's just the weaker the free agent class, the less incentive teams have to dump one-year contracts. And again, I don't think you want to take a bad two-year contract because that does handcuff you a bit in 2023. All right, direction of the team after this year. worth it to try to compete in a stacked east or take it slow and give yourself a shot at players like Scoot, Wembe, or maybe even Sharp of these days. I don't think, I think next season, the Pistons will be better armed.

I think that they will just see where things go. And so I don't think they'll be trying to compete, but I think they'll try to field a reasonable roster around the young guys and just see where things go. So worth it to try to compete now? No, I don't think they can reasonably do that anyway because I don't think they can be making big trades right now. I don't think they really have the necessarily have very good assets. which to do so, but I don't think they're going to do it, period, because it doesn't make any

sense, and they can't really sign big free agents. They're not going to, we're just talking about the class. There's not really anybody who's both good and attainable. So I think it's just kind of a foregone conclusion that they'll just see where things go. I don't think they're going to try to compete. I don't think they could compete. Yeah, I think if anything, it's going to be more dependent on the draft and how the lottery shakes out if they feel like they've gotten a really, really good player, and maybe they feel like they're going to get somebody that they actually like in free agency. maybe it's not like this one of these big name max guys but somebody that they think can develop i don't know i'm just this is some imaginary player in my head but really what i think it will come down to

is what kind of talent they get in the draft and if they feel like they're ready to make this pivot into being competitive i could see that happening if they feel like they just how do you how do you mean you throw money to people yeah but there's nobody aside from the restricted free agents i mean there's really nobody you can realistically throw money at and they have to sign the offer sheet. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's, it is still a bit of a question. I mean, I think there are a lot of teams that are maybe worried that they'll lose just quality pieces to the Pistons just because we can offer a little bit more than maybe they're willing to pay because we are one of what three or four teams that have actual cap space? Four teams. I believe it's the spurs, the magic, the pistons and, uh, and the trailblazers actually. But the thing is, I mean, who aside from the RFAs do you throw money at?

because there's nobody really worth throwing money at. Aside from that unrestricted free agency, you know, aside from people. I'd have to look at the list. I mean, I really, when I look at the free agent list and, you know, the potential players, I really was focusing on younger players. But if they feel like they're ready to compete, maybe they're looking at some older guys. There's that. There's Zach Levine.

There's another guy who is almost certain. We'll definitely prize Zach Levine from the Bulls. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he's now I'm one of the best teams in the league. I find it hard to believe. And they can pay him way more money because they have his bird rights, they can offer him five years with 8% year over a year raises versus four years at five percent. Yeah, he wants to play with Cade.

He'll be here. Yeah, definitely. I mean, that would be a big get. I mean, I've changed my tune. I mean, the guy can definitely play more up-ball role and still be highly effective. But beyond that, I mean, it's just such a disappointing class. So, yeah, I don't think that they could compete if they tried. And as far, just as a point of information, I'm restricted free agents, you give them an

offer sheet. They have to sign the offer sheet. You can't just make them a contract offer. and say, okay, fine, you know, beat this or don't beat this. They have to sign the offer sheet, and that offer sheet will be for less than the max they can receive from their own team. And then if they, if their team declines, then that's the salary they get. So they're basically locking themselves into a lower salary by signing that offer sheet.

So that makes it, yeah, that makes it less likely. Okay, moving on opinions on Grant staying past the deadline, how will impact the team the rest of the year, future plans with Grant, any concern about the team giving them an extension? would you like him gone in the offseason, if so for what? So I'll start, if you don't mind. So opinions on Grant staying past the deadline, not a fan. I think he's bad for the team. I don't think that I've said what I've said about Casey and his propensity for

giving basically carte blanche to veterans who can create. I don't like that. And I just don't see him having a future on the team. So if, yeah, I don't think it's going to impact the season much. I think Pistons might lose more games. We'll see an uglier offense, and I don't think he's good for the development of Cade Bay, I think can operate independently of Grant and is given that opportunity. But, yeah, so I don't like it. And but I don't think it'll have much of an impact, maybe more losses unless he really goes nuclear.

And I hope for the sake of the Pistons getting good trapposition that that doesn't happen. Right. Yeah, I think under Casey, he plays a losing brand of basketball. I mean, I don't want to rehash everything. Very well put. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to rehash everything that we went over in our previous episode after the trade deadline,

but that's really like the main point. Like when he is a top option, he shoots inefficiently. He takes, he kills ball movement and he does it shamelessly. On a better team where he's lower on the totem pole, like let's say we get Jabari Smith. Better coach. Yeah. Like let's say those two are like more efficient and they're taking better shots. and Grant falls just naturally into a role where he's playing more in like a three and a D and attack role.

You know, I think at that point, his percentages would rise and he becomes like that piece that we all fell in love with where it's like, wow, this guy can actually be a dynamic score and he can be useful on a team where the pistons are trying to compete. But right now, yeah, no, he makes things look ugly. Yeah, he sucks. Yeah, he sucks pretty much all around. He's also this year. I try to be diplomatic with it. Yeah. This year, last year, I mean, he just would go to the basket.

He was good at scoring there. He'd draw a lot of free throws. He'd also just get the crap eating out of him. He would just end up on his back so often because he just got knocked straight out of the area. He's not a very heavy guy. And though his positioning is great for scoring around the basket, but it also makes him very easy to knock. I mean, he just, if you touch him, he's going to fly on the ground. He's not really doing as much of that this year, which is probably why he's less effective.

So there's part of the reason, just one facet of the reason why he's less effective. As far as future plans, team giving them an extension, highly unlikely, I would say. I just don't see Jeremy Grant as a future piece for this team. And at the very least, they would just wait until free agency, probably, if they were intents. I don't think, so here's the thing. It becomes, if they're keeping the same dates and not accounting for free agency being at a weird time when he signed his, then he'll become extension eligible around Thanksgiving next year and November, whenever it was, that free agency was two years

to the day after that. I don't think they would give him an extension then. If they were going to give it to him, I think they would give it to him during the season. Just for any who might have said, they might have seen situations in which, oh, players don't, such and such player didn't get an extension and now they can't offer it until the offseason.

Those are for rookie scale players. You have to extend them prior to the start of the season going into their fourth year, or you can't offer them an extension during the season. So, like you saw with Aaron Gordon, who's traded forward by the Nuggets, and they extended him very shortly afterward in the middle of the season right after the trade deadline last year. So what I like him gone to the offseason, yes, I would take probably a fairly modest return.

Tommy, you brought up the good points, though that teams might be in a better mood to deal when they've seen how they fell short in the playoffs. Yeah, that's still just a big if. And I think you made the point during that episode that even if he does play poorly, like you can trust that teams should be doing enough research to just say, okay, this guy is not being used. properly, but if we bring him on to our team and we do use him properly, he's more useful. And hopefully that can help his trade value. That's the hope anyway. I'm not, I would have to see exactly what the offers were to say, whether I'm like actually upset that he's still in the team. But if there was like a good return, a good return being like what they were asking for, like two good first round picks or like a good young piece, like a core piece and the first

round pick, like if that was there and they just didn't take it because they didn't like the player or something, yeah, maybe then you're upset. But if it really, if the offers really were like as bad as it seemed that they were, um, I'm, I'm okay with the idea of keeping grant because again, if you look to, if you look to compete and if Casey is not your coach anymore and he's playing a big if a rule, a rule more suited to. Oh, you mean another team playing. Gotcha. No, no, I'm still talking about the pistons like, oh yeah, well, Casey is on for the next two years at this point. Yeah, I mean, the pistons are going to be looking to, I mean, Grant will be, what, 31 at that point? No, so Grant will be 29, I believe, or maybe 28th at the end of his contract.

Like, he can still contribute. Like, when the pistons have to look to pivot within two to three years and be like actual, actually competitive. I mean, they'll still be relying on internal development, but Grant can still contribute. He's not old by any means. Yeah. It's just about, like, his recent performance and the shots he's taking. I don't like it when he pulls up for mid-range. Yeah, I think that the opportunity cost of having him will grow as the Pistons add more young talents and move toward trying to field an actually effective offense.

And Dwayne Casey is still the coach. So who knows, maybe his role declines naturally if there are better players in the team. I would say if the Pistons end up with Jabari Smith, he's probably gone in the same offseason. But I'd be surprised if he were still around when, you know, after the draft the season or when it's going in the next season. All right, final one, and we'll do this quickly. because it's, Tommy needs to go. We've gone way over time here. So the last question is about Cade.

And honestly, I think we're going to defer this to a future episode because this is one we'd like to spend more time on. The question about Cade is, after his initial slow, a couple of games, how do you feel his development has been and areas he has or has not improved? So, yeah, we'll push this forward in the next episode. All right, everyone, that'll be it. As always, thanks for listening. See you next time.