Driving to the Basket: A Detroit Pistons Podcast - Episode 9: Grading the roster at the season’s one-quarter mark

Episode Date: December 7, 2019

Detroit's season is already more than one-quarter past. This episode grades each member of the roster on his performance thus far. Recorded just prior to the 12/6 contest against the Indiana Pacers.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. My name is Mike. I'm here with Tommy. Welcome to episode nine of driving in the basket. So this episode is largely going to focus on grading the Pistons at each of the Pistons players, rather, and Dwayne Casey as well. Why not? As we're just past the quartermark of the season. But first, we are going to talk a little bit about the remainder of that very important five-game span between Orlando and that final game against the Cavaliers that we spoke about. on the last week's episode. So Tommy, why don't you take it away your thoughts on that? Yeah, so I believe we went three and two over that stretch. Really should have gone a little higher than that. That was definitely a time to bring yourself a lot closer to 500

before we take on some tougher teams in the next few weeks. On the other hand, though, the offense has looked better. We've seen a lot of new things. We've seen the drumming and Griffin pick and roll. We've seen a lot better ball movement. Derek Rose is he's building chemistry with a lot of those bench guys and finding them on the perimeter, which is great to see.

And you kind of expect that with a brand new team, a lot of new players. There's going to be some issues. And that issue primarily for the Pistons this year has been turnover. and the Pistons have managed to reduce those a little bit. There was one really bad turnover in one of those games where Derek Rose threw it to nobody and it ended up costing the Pistons the game. But overall, the Pistons are fixing some of their issues. They just weren't able to get it done enough in that five-game stretch

where they really should have been able to capitalize on five games that were definitely winnable and would have been a very good time for the Pistons to get a good wooden streak going. Yeah, I agree. I think it was entirely within the realm of possibility for the Pistons to go 5 and O. You had Orlando, of course, down Aaron Gordon and Nicole Vuccivic, and the Pistons had to win that game. They didn't win that game. And the games against the Cavaliers who are a mess from top to bottom, nobody's really performed particularly well. I mean, you got a team where a pretty washed out Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson are your best players is going nowhere. apparently there's some issues with Bayline as well in the locker room. The Spurs looks like this is finally the year where they're going to miss the playoffs.

I mean, he can never really rule out Greg Popovich. I mean, the man, in my opinion, is the greatest coach in the history of the league. But they've got such a weak team, such a weak team. And they were playing with Almarcus Aldrich, who is really their only strong interior presence. So the Pistons just really ate them alive. But you lost twice against Charlotte. But Charlotte is not a good team. They are not a good team.

The first game was a complete, another mess for the Pistons from beginning to end. They were in it until the last minutes. But really, the final sequence really just summed up the game, which is, you know, pistons need a basket. At first, they call a timeout on a five-on-four transition opportunity. Then they apparently drop a play, not knowing that Charlott are not realizing that Charlotte has a foul to give. Charlotte Fowles, and then there's nothing left. They have that last possession.

Apparently, they don't have a play drawn up, and Derek Rose dribbles the ball off, and just does nothing with it. In both games, Drummond got outplayed by Bismack, the Ambo. That's unacceptable. This is just something that Andre does. We'll talk about this a bit later in the show, but there are games when he just doesn't really show up, and he gets outplayed by guys who were well below his level.

We've seen it happen in the past with, for example, Dwayne Dedman, Andre notoriously struggles against him. Unfortunately, we don't see the guy very much anymore. But, you know, Alex Lenn last year outplayed Andre so badly that Dwayne Casey just took Andre out for the entire fourth quarter and things like that. And he got outplayed by Biombo and that can't happen. So this very easily could have been a 5-0 stretch and that would have been very nice for the Pistons.

I mean, at least for those fans you really want to see them make the playoffs and that remains to call the organization. And instead, the Pistons have lost three times the Hornets this season. And that just can't happen. You can't. When you're a team like the Pistons, you're not going to attain a top seed in the east. This team just isn't, even as everything came together. I mean, this team just isn't as good as the Toronto's and the Boston's, the Philadelphia

is the conference. That's just the way it is. You have to beat the bad team. Charlotte is a bad team. So it was a disappointing stretch. That said, I do agree with you that some things are starting to come together a little bit more probably is the result of Blake Griffin being back, though Griffin certainly isn't himself quite yet. So altogether, I would say pretty disappointing. Three and two is good,

but the Pistons really needed better than that, and they could have done better than that. And it was sort of distressing to see them fall apart in two games against a bad team in Charlotte. So from there, why don't we just launch into talking about, you know, really just running down the roster and seeing in and talking about how each player has performed so far on the season. So I'd say, why don't we start up with Blake Griffin? Obviously, I'd say if we're assigning this guy, great, you give him an incomplete. He's not up to speed, clearly. The guy does not look good.

It does not look like himself. I saw somebody put it pretty well. I believe it was on Reddit who said that it looks like, you know, one of his legs is shorter than the other. He just, he doesn't look like himself inside the arc. last season and really before that, of course, he made his living largely within the three-point line. In isolation, he was very difficult to stop in the way of the basket, great at drawing foulless in the post. He would generally, he was just physically dominating.

He had his array of moves. He would generally draw double teams, excuse me, double teams. And it was just a very effective score. He can't do anything inside of the arc right now. He said that he had that good game against Cleveland that was. largely came on the power of his three-point shooting and the Pistons, they need, if they can't have Griffin, Griffin's big games becoming only from the three-point line. I mean, obviously points are points, but they need the guy to be performing at the level

he did last season if they really want to have a hope of this team going anywhere. What have been your thoughts about Blake? Yeah, he definitely hasn't looked like himself, or at least not like Blake Griffin from last year. The effort is there. You know, we see him. He's still diving for loose balls. He's still bodying people who are trying to back him down. But his foot speed and his explosiveness have taken another step back. Like, he's not, obviously, he isn't going to be the Blake Griffin from, from L.A., but he's been even worse than he was last year. Last year was passable because he added the three-point shot. When you diversify your offensive skill set, it makes it a lot harder for people to guard. you. But now that he's only got his three-point shooting, teams are kind of backing off of him when he's at the three-point line. And they're trying to... He's only at 31% this season. Right. That's rough. Exactly. And you need Blake Griffin to be the Blake from last year,

who was, like you said, drawing double teams. And right now would be a perfect time for that because the pistons are shooting, like unbelievably. Well, I think by percentage, they're still number one in the league right now, just a hair under 40%. And if Blake is drawing double teams and he's kicking it out to the open guy or they're passing it around the arc and they find that open guy, to capitalize on something like that would be huge for the Pistons. And if Blake isn't able to do that right now, that's a missed opportunity at a time where, you know, you've got to capitalize on something like the Pistons shooting much better than anybody expected. So, yeah, I guess an incomplete because he's clearly not himself.

And you hope that he's getting a little bit better, it seems. Like his first game back, he just looked awful. Now he's just regular bad. But yeah, an incomplete because you want to give Blake a little bit more time to get his legs under him again. Yeah, definitely great point about the piston shooting. Last season, there was just a dire lack of spacing around Blake Griffin. and it made life a lot more difficult on him. And the Pistons now, then who knows that the shooting is sustainable

from guys like Galloway especially, who is notorious as streaky. And has never shot this well for this long before, if I remember correctly. Actually, maybe in that abbreviated season he spent with the Pelicans, you know, that probably convinced Stan Van Gogh is probably what convinced Dan Van Gunny to bring him to Detroit, though. I think Van Gundy had said it already liked him, but let's just pretend that Van Gundy never existed.

will do fine for me. In any event. So, yeah, the pistons are in a considerably better position right now to utilize this full skill set. Like you said, they've been shooting remarkably well. They are, however, in the lower half of the league in terms of a point, three point attempts per game. And a guy like Blake Griffin could really help with that by drawing gravity inside the

post, excuse me, inside the arc, particularly from the post and just doing. his thing, distributing from that area. One thing I will say the defense has improved with him in the lineup. You know, you would think that's a little counterintuitive because Griffin has never, you know, even in his much more athletic days, has never been a stalwart defender. What he is is a leader. The Pistons really with him out of the lineup didn't have any leadership voices in the floor. I think that's one place where, believe it or not, Ish Smith was missed because Smith, even from his first season in Detroit, would call out assignments on the defensive end, at least from time to time.

And, you know, he was just a naturally organizing force. And Derek Rose just isn't out of the defensive end. You know, not to say that H. Smith has any sort of defensive anchor. But you need that, you need that voice on the court. So moving on to the other team's other principal, Andre Drummond. So Drummond, as we all know, early in the season, first seven games in particular, that stretch, he was a complete monster. he you know just across that span 22 points per game about 19 rebounds

I mean he was turning over the ball a lot but that's you know the very small price to pay he was he was excellent in the defense events that's absolutely excellent altogether you know it's just another tantalizing you know equal parts tantalizing and frustrating indication of what Andre Drummond can do when he's playing fully engaged and he's sticking to what he's good at he's a very effective player And he actually even showed a fairly good face-up game off the drive, you know, from the baseline in particular, not so much from elsewhere within the arc. But his face-up game for the baseline was very effective. He was not taking any of his stupid jump hooks that have plagued the Pistons for more than four seasons, five seasons, I think, counting the last one.

And, you know, he just looked great. unfortunately his performance took a dump afterward this is i think was a season where people particularly asking can drummond finally keep this up is he finally going to be consistent is he finally going to give us more of what we saw of him and uh you know about one third of last season and about one quarter of the season before and the answer unfortunately turned out to be no because his game took a dump very very soon uh you know right after that brooklyn game actually that somewhat stirring win the pistons were victorious over the nets with no point guards.

Ever since then, Drummond's performance has gone significantly downhill. At first, it was because he was just getting into a lot of foul trouble. And then Griffin came back and you could just see Andre's care level go significantly down. He's a guy who operates best when he's the center of things. That's what gets him engaged. And he just couldn't keep up with it. You know, couldn't keep it up, rather. He's just resumed his loafing ways, unfortunately.

His true shooting percentage over the last 15 games since I believe the Wizards game is down to 53%. That is unacceptable for a traditional center. It's completely unacceptable. Those guys need to be highly efficient in the paint to comment say for the fact that they have no range inability to space the floor. In the modern offense first NBA, where centers, even most centers can shoot these days, most starting centers, is a major disadvantage. you have to be good in the pains. You have to be doing well at everything that a traditional center does.

And he's not. His defense, to his credit, it hasn't been quite as good. At the rim, he's still great. He's still a top 10 center. In terms of top 10, top 10 center in general, I think he's ranked

number eight or number nine amongst starting centers in terms of percentage, a lot of the Rams along about 50% of the room, which is great. His defense outside the arc has not been quite as good. but it's just so distressing to see his performance decline.

He's just back to forcing things, particularly on the offensive end. He's not as in the off, especially with Griffin back. He's not as in the offense as he was before. And now he's resorting to his dumb isolations, these awful mid-range jump hooks that made him the worst post player in the NBA over the past five seasons. just a lot of bad shots, not trying to establish position before shooting around the basket, back to all of his bad habits. So that's rough.

Another thing that's fun to look at, I mean, the guys become a turnover machine. That's a problem, particularly in transition. The whole experiment with him bringing the ball up the floor was a disaster. Right now, his turnover percentage on transition opportunities is about 30, which means the passengers are turning over the ball about 30% of the time. or he's turning up with the ball about 30% of the time when he has it in transition. It's basically, if you're a traditional big, you have to stay in your lane. And he was doing that in the first segment of the season.

He is not doing it anymore. So that rant aside, what are your thoughts? Yeah, like you said, it's been a tale of like two different Andre Drummins, the first part of the season where Blake Riffman was out. Androi Drummond was thriving because he was engaged. He was getting the ball a lot more. And to his credit, he was doing an extremely good job on both ends of the floor. In fact, he was fighting harder for post position, getting both feet in the paint.

And that's what you want to see from him because that's how you up your efficiency. And even though he's not great at backing people down, I think there was, I think one time where he really muscled his way into the paint. He was like you want to see more of that like desperately. Andre Drummond is one of the heaviest players in the league. And with a lot of teams going to smaller, more mobile centers, you want him to do that a whole lot more. So it's a little bit frustrating that he hasn't done that sooner and he hasn't done that much since.

The other thing that he was doing really well was defending. And one of the things that the pistons have been trying to do for probably the last couple of years is they try to force people off. the three point line and have them drive inside and then take some sort of mid-range pull-up. Our guards and our wing players haven't been very good at defending beyond that. They kind of over-commit to the three, which is probably by design. And then Drummond is the one who ends up having an answer for it because he has to prevent the guy who's driving inside from taking an uncontested mid-range pull-up, and he also needs to

prevent the lob threat, which is the guy who's behind him that he's supposed to guard. And that's a tough ask. And it's probably hurt Andre Drummond's defensive stats. But for those first few games, he did it beautifully. Like he picked his spots really well. He was really active. He was coming up to guys quick enough that he was kind of throwing them off. And you just wish that he would do that more often.

But like some of us thought, you know, when Blake Griffin came back, he wasn't getting his touches, his engagement goes down, and then he resorts to a lot of his bad habits. We've seen the jump hook. He was shooting it fairly well, actually, in the beginning of the season, but it was on low volume, which is acceptable. But now he was also, it was a lot closer to the basket on his hooks also. He was actually scoring pretty well on his hooks early on, but he was taking him from like two or three feet away. Yep.

And that's what you, you guys, I mean, it's still not a great shot overall for him. But it's, like, when he's taking it that close and he was only, when he's hitting it that often, sure, go ahead and take that. But now that he's kind of forcing more of his offense, he's taking them from further away. He'll, he'll try to muscle his way in a couple times, but then he'll kind of pull away and try to get some distance between him and his defender. And in doing so, he takes the jump hook from like eight feet away. and it goes in a lot less when he does that. So it's frustrating that he's kind of gone back to a lot of his old habits. There were people who were talking about,

well, maybe this is the Andre Drummond that you do want to max or bring back on a huge contract. And you just kind of knew deep down that when Blake Griffin came back, we wouldn't see this 2020 every game beast anymore, which is unfortunate. So, I mean, his first half of the season I'd give him, A, no problem. But now I'd probably give him like a C.

Yeah, I'd say I really tend to judge players on what they're, you know, in part on what they're capable of and if they're doing that. And I don't think he has been. Like you said, on defense, I mean, he has the instincts and the athleticism and the endurance to really be just a game changer on defense. You see guys like Goody, you know, a guy like Rudy Gober is one of the best defenders in the league who alters the game changer on defense just by being there and by doing all the right things. I don't think Andre has quite that level of instinct, but he is more athletic. He's

very able to do two things at once, go and contest a shot, like you said, and then come back and defend the rim. It's just night and day between when he is engaged and willing to do so, and when he's like, eh, and it really isn't working quite as hard, and it doesn't happen. So, yeah, the post possessions, though, yeah, that just hurts to see. I don't know why they're back. I don't know why, you know, the post, excuse me, the mid-range jump hooks. I don't know why Twain Casey's allowing them. He encouraged Andre to take them last season, which was ridiculous. Andre Drummond's basically, you know, for the last five years, I think it's averaged about 0.75 points per possession as a post player that is agonizingly bad.

You would rather have Josh Smith hoisting three-pointers. So, and there was, I believe it was against Charlotte. There's one possession where Andre got the ball in the post, and it might have been against Cleveland. I don't remember. And you heard Blake Griffin shout, take your time, Andre. Like, take your time, get closer to the basket, get your position. I mean, always said to take your time. But the meeting was clear, get your position.

Get into a good place to take the shot. Don't just take it. So, yeah, all told, I mean, like you said, if you're just grading Andre, we did this episode, you know, after seven games, it would be like a version on 8 plus. Fantastic. Even though I would say definitely this team should not max him unless they're getting rid of Andre, excuse me, of Blake Griffin. and only if you are fully, fully, 150% confident that Andre is going to play this way for the rest of his contract, which, of course, you can't be.

So I'm going to give him, all told, let's say it's maybe a B-minus. You know, credit to the guy, the Pistons would be in tremendously worse position if he hadn't played so well in the first seven games, but he has not been good ever since. And that's because he's not trying his hard, and that's unacceptable. So moving down the list to Reggie Jackson, I mean, this guy has just been completely invisible. I mean, you don't even notice him on the court. You know, all jokes aside, with all the flack that Roger Jackson has gotten, I certainly gave him plenty back in the day. I think he really has, his attitude has really evolved. He's become much more professional over the last couple of seasons, much more willing to allow other players to spotlight.

and he's missed by the Pistons. He, you know, because there are several things he brings. He can create some offense on his own. He's a good pick and roll player, not as good as he once was, because the guy used to be super athletic, and I guess we were all hoping he would come back after this healthy offseason and look good, and then this stuff happened with his back. It's a real shame.

Feel bad for the guy. But, you know, he's a good pick and roll presence. Like I said, he can create some offense. He's got really good synergy with Andre, and, you know, you've got to get on, try to get Andre involved in every game as much as you can, so that's important. He's a fair spot-up three-point shooter, and yeah, and he's not a good defender, but when he's physically up the speed, I mean, the guy has a seven-foot wingspan.

That can make up for a lot of mistakes. So, I mean, obviously, you're not giving Reddy Jackson a grade, but I would just say briefly that I think the guy certainly is missed on the roster, and hopefully he'll be back before it's too late. So, you know, moving on from that A side, we'll go down to probably the guy who's been, I would say, the third most impactful member of the roster so far, which be Luke Kinnard. Now, Luke has really evolved into, you know, what I thought it could be as of this many previous episodes of the podcast.

I thought the guy should just be given the ball, be given as much help as he needs to get open and just told shoot on high volume. and he's a good distributor. He's a good passer. He's one of those players who can, you know, who can see in front of him to his sides, but also knows where guys are behind him. And he's a threat to score from, you know,

anywhere outside the paint, you'd like him be better in the paint. But he's gotten crafter. He knows which shots he can't make at the rim. And he tends to stick to the ones he can. So he's been real big for the pistons. Another guy who started off real hot. and has cooled down to a degree.

But, I mean, he's still, you know, he's on the whole, he's been pretty great. 59% true shooting. And 16 points per game. His defense has not been great. You know, Kinnart is never going to be a good defender. He's not quick. He's got relatively poor lateral mobility. He's got a very short wingspan.

He's just not the most athletic guy. out there. He's been better than I thought he would be. He's a minus, but I think more than makes up for it on offense. So, you know, I toss Luke, a, I toss Luke probably a, somewhere in between a minus and B plus. The main knock against him is that there are some games in which he just disappears. He's tended to be either very good or pretty bad, but his good games have certainly outweighed as bad games. And as much as you want to compare the guy of Donovan Mitchell and say, yes, it still probably was the wrong choice to take the safer pick over the guy who had the higher ceiling for a team like the Pistons that was already, you know, completely cap, you know, salary cap blocked.

Getting a guy like Luke who can come off, you know, it can be a starter or come off the bench and give you 15 plus points on high efficiency every game is a pretty good use of what I believe was the number 11 pick. I mean, if you get that at number 11, you're pretty satisfied. So, you know, be nice. I think he was actually 12. He was 12. Okay. Well, even more then.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So I like how well Luke has done. I still think he has more room to grow as a player. And there are still some nights, which he gets a little bit gun shy. But I like how he's done so far.

Yeah. What are your thoughts? Yeah. I'm very happy with Luke. I tend to kind of think about play. players in terms of what their contract is. And since Luke is still on his rookie contract, this type of volume and this,

the shooting that he's giving us, it's just great in that context because it's a lot of, like he said, 16 points per game, 59% true shooting. He's doing what he was drafted and selected for us to do. He's definitely cooled down a little bit like he had a scorching hot start. But he's still,

he's still shooting like 40% on the year. You want him to keep going with that. I would say keep him in the starting lineup when the whole roster is healthy. I like the shooting he brings. I think he's kind of stepping up into that role. I know you want him to get more of a role. Maybe he can start with the starting group and then be out there when some of those other starters are sitting so that he does get that opportunity with the ball in his hands.

but I like what he brings and I'm perfectly happy with this production given that it's only like his third or fourth year and he just doesn't cost the pissing too much money I'd give him an A. Yeah, he's, yeah, definitely has been good and yeah. And one other thing I want to mention. Oh yeah, go ahead. Yeah. The only issue I've had with him is like you said, he's been a little bit gunshot. like he'll pass up on good shots or shots that he could have taken.

He has a really quick release. So when he has that opening, you do want him to let it fly. That's the only other thing. So I'm still fine with that. And I think as he gets more comfortable, he'll be able to let those fly. Yeah. I think actually if you get a healthy Reggie Jackson back, I mean, you definitely have a decision to make. I still think there's a merits to having him come off the bench and just eat alive,

you're opposing bench players, which he really did well in the early stages of the season. But, yeah, I think he's been good. Yeah, maybe B plus is a little unfair. Probably the guy deserves an A minus, in my opinion. I can certainly see where you're coming from as far as contract value goes, though. He's definitely a great value on contract right now. So moving on to Derek Rose, another guy who started the season, I mean, he started the season off super well. I mean, unsustainably well by any measure whatsoever.

I mean, the guy was shooting like, you know, better than 60% from mid-range, like better than 60% on floaters. And, yeah, he just, he had some monster games in the early season, particularly the first three games of the season. He was completely ridiculous. He just, he couldn't barely miss. He's cooled off a lot since he came back from injury. He has not been nearly so good. The guy isn't attempting mid-range shots anymore. He's not really attempting his footer so much anymore.

He's always settling, which is getting to the basket and scoring. And he hasn't been as effective. Ever since he has returned from injury, his true shooting percentage has been, but, you know, hair of 52%. That's not acceptable. I mean, that's not what you want. It's better than Ish Smith, but it's not what you want. He's done real, I would say, overall, real badly.

as a three-point shooter. Not real badly, but not well. I get 33% is acceptable. But again, he just hasn't been particularly good. He's been taking a lot of shots he shouldn't. He's overall, you know, been decent as far as assist to turnover goes. Not great. I mean, about six assists, 2.5 turnovers,

but his turnovers tend to come at the worst possible time. And, you know, it's hard not to like Derek Rose. He's a real hard worker. He's exciting to watch. And, but his decision-making at times has really left, has really left something to be desired. And like I said, I mean, it's like you saw a Minnesota last season. He did great. He got some bone chips in his elbow.

Sounds like somebody's moving chairs in the background. Yeah, I'm turning off my mic for a second. All right. So he Last season with Minnesota He got some bone chips I believe in his elbow And his

You know His shooting Just his performance in general Went down the tubes He's just looked Different since he's come back from injury And he needs to be more comfortable With settling for shots

Not at the basket So I'd give Derek Rose Overall Overall Overall I would say a B plus at this point. His defense has also not been the greatest. He's been a capable backup point guard, certainly.

And on the season, you know, 56% true shooting. About 16 points per game. You know, you're getting much of paying for. Hopefully you can stay healthy and in the lineup. But you really wanted to see him get back to the point where he's more comfortable, not just needing to get to the basket because defense isn't really adapted. Though to his credit, he's done pretty well as a facilitator. Yeah.

So what do you have thoughts on the guy? I've liked him so far. I mean, like you said, Derek Rose, super likable guy. I didn't expect him to be this good, considering that, you know, there was that time like one or two years ago where people thought he was done for good. I've been really happy with his production. He's had some bad shooting nights and times where he couldn't fit. finish, but he's building chemistry with the lineup.

Either the Milwaukee game or the Spurs game. He was doing a really good job of getting inside, drawing the defense, and then finding a guy on the perimeter. And oftentimes it resulted in like a wide open three. And that's exactly what you want from him. Yeah, 10 assists in that game. Yeah. So as far as his shooting goes, you'll hope it gets better. but for the number of shooters that we have on our bench, like Svi,

Gannard at times, Galloway, who's shooting ridiculously well, it's good enough for now that he's just giving them open shots. But if he can just finish the way he does, which he's an acrobat, and it's really fun to watch, he's done well enough for now. I expect the, as he learns to play with his teammates a little bit better, obviously just the first, what, 20 games. I expect that to get better or he will reduce his turnovers and hopefully his numbers will get better. Yeah.

So he has actually been taking more threes since his return from injury. He was attempting less than one a game before his injury. Now he's taking ever since he's been taking about 3, 34 percent. So that's pretty good. Of course, they're going to be nights when he misses basically all of them. And they're having, there have been nights when he's missed basically all of them. And when they miss, they're real bad misses. So what would you give the guy as far as a grade goes?

For now, I guess I'll give him a C, just because he's had some pretty much. Yeah, yeah. In general? Yeah, because he's had some pretty bad shooting nights, but I think it'll get a lot better. And then the turnovers. There was that one, I mentioned it earlier, just one really bad turnover when there was just nobody there. Yeah, that is. A C for now.

That is unfortunate. I give the guy B. I think he deserves, he deserves some plot it. for his early season heroics. And I think as far as a backup point guard goes, I think he's been well above average. He's got some, he's got some, certainly some wrinkles to iron out.

But, you know, I think he's done pretty well. He could be better, but I think he's done pretty well. And I think he's definitely been an upgrade on Ish Smith, who just grew into spacing disaster with his team. So, you know, yeah, if I were feeling generous, that even give the guy B. Bless, you know, maybe, in my opinion, maybe he deserves that. Because also he's just, I think he's been a very positive influence on the team, and his teammates around him as well. So moving on down the list, and I suppose, why not?

We'll go with, actually, let's just stick to the starting lineup. The last guy there is going to be Bruce Brown. So Bruce overall, still struggling from the floor, even after coming in as starting point guard his start to the season was just absolutely horrible I mean he was through like the first four or five games I mean he was obscenely bad just dreadful I think he had a negative player efficiency rating at one point he's picked it up certainly

his highlight of the season was still the game against against the Nets when he did quite well I mean, circumstances were very good. I think the Nets really hadn't game plan for him at all. And it was weird to me to Kenny Atkinson, who is, in my opinion, a very good coach, didn't just tell his guys, just sag off the guy and double team and when he goes into the paint.

But even since that time, he's got a true shooting percentage of about 49. That's not good. Yeah. But it's been safe for the ball, you know, since the turnover, about 2.7. And he's just, and he's been better overall on the season as a three-point shooter. You know, on the season as a whole, he is shooting about 33%. And only 1.5 attempts per game, 1.6, but still, that's a very significant improvement. It seems when he can really get his feet set and he's in the corner, he does pretty well.

But there are just some nights when he completely disappears, you know, in general and often. He's certainly gotten better on his way to the basket. He's very athletic. He's been an able perimeter defender. And he's, you know, you get the same hard work you're always going to get from Bruce Brown. He's a guy, I've said before if he can get his offense in order, he can be a significant part of this team's future. I mean, he's, there's just no way not to like the player himself, even if he, you know, even if at times he's very frustrating to watch less so this season than last season. I mean, the guy just wants nothing more than for his team to win.

I'd say he couldn't care less about how well he did. You know, he's a kind of guy. I think if you asked him, he'd say I would be content taking zero shots if that was what, you know, if that's what's, you know, if that's what's going to give my team its best possible shot at winning, then I'll do really whatever is necessary. And you need guys like that. And if you want to point to, you know, your old stereotype with Detroit basketball, the guys who really do really just. are super gritty, work really hard and just play for the team. I mean, Bruce Brown will fall into that category. He's definitely a guy I could see growing into a leader.

And he's got, and he's got, if he can develop his offense, he's got a pretty, they'll have a pretty good all-around skill set because as we've seen, he can pass. He's got good court vision. He's a good defender. He's very athletic. So he has been thrown into a, uh, position that isn't ideal for him. I think he's not ready to play starting point guard.

I think, you know, I think that's just pretty basic just at this stage of his career. He's just, yeah, he just, he can't really space the floor very well still. And, you know, he's made, leaves and bounds from last year on offense. He's still not a good score. So he's done a bang up job, you know, based on what could reasonably be expected from Bruce, you know, I'd toss him. I'd be generous just because honestly, you know, against all odds, I really liked the guy last season.

I could occasionally forget that it was his coach putting him in a position for which he was simply not at all ready. But, you know, I'd give Bruce a B. You know, again, maybe this is just some of my biases coming into play. Like, I really respect guys who really, really set their minds to what's best for their team. And he, in my opinion, absolutely does that. So, oh, yeah, another thing to notes, he has done a much better job of limiting his fouls. I know, because I've harped out in that in the past. The last season, outside of centers,

he was the most foul-grown start on the league. And he's still averaging about, you know, per 36 minutes, he's, I believe averaging four fouls, which still isn't very good, but it's considerably better than last season, which if I remember correctly, he was at about five. So he still needs to work on that. But I think he's just improved quite a bit from last season overall. So I guess that hard not to like the guy. He's still got a lot of growing to do.

If he wants to be certainly a starter in the league, but on offense, even as a defender, excuse me, even as a bench player, you'd like to see him grow. But, you know, I find it hard to fault him for much, except for that first stretch of first, you know, five or six games when he was unthinkably good. What's your take? Yeah. So, I mean, to start, yeah, the three-point shooting, that's, that is the key for him.

And it's been really encouraging to see him knock down, I think, 33% of them this year. It's a slow shot. He has to, like, catch it, square up, and then it's a slow release. But if he could just knock that down reliably, it would be huge for his game because, like you said, he's getting to the basket better. He's got a pretty quick first step. And if teams didn't play him to the way where the defender is going to sag off, give him plenty of space, and then when he tries to drive to the basket, he has a little more time to catch up with Bruce and defend him a little bit. better. So if Bruce could tighten up those defenders and then start beating them off the dribble,

that'd be huge for his game, and maybe he would be shooting it a little bit better closer to the rim. The three-point shot is just something that I really hope he continues to work on. I know he said that he's aware of how much harder it is for Blake Riffin when he's on the floor, because a lot of times it's Bruce's defender who's the guy who's coming in a double and if Blake kicks it out to him, teams are pretty happy to have him take that three-point shot if it's rushed because chances are it's not going to go in. Like you said, I like him because he's hard worker and I agree with you. I do think he has leadership potential. In Summer League, he didn't get to play in the last game, but in all the games he played, he was getting past.

guys with no trouble and when he wasn't playing on the bench he was he was the first guy standing up and cheering he was getting his guys hyped up he took it very seriously as a leader and uh you really like to see that so i definitely hope that bruce continues to work on that three-point shot i think that would just open up the rest of his game but right now uh i can't give him more than like a C because his true shooting is just that bad, and it's just not enough right now. I'd like to see him come off the bench. I understand that if, like, Jackson comes back

and you start Luka Nard, that's a horrible, horrible defensive combo for your guards. Not terrible. Yeah, but I think he would have a lot more. His athleticism would shine through a little bit more against bench guards. And the other thing, like I mentioned this in the last podcast, it was right after the Atlanta game. The first Atlanta game, which was, I think, it was either the season opener or the home

opener, Trey Young, he got what he wanted against Bruce, and Bruce was kind of playing him out of control on defense, and he was, and Trey was coaxing him into a lot of falls. And then that second game, Trey had one bad fall where Trey kind of stopped, and then Bruce ran into him and he forced the foul. And I thought, oh, see here, we're going to see it again because Bruce had even said, he said, I'm ready for that next Atlanta game. But after that first foul, he was able to control himself a lot better. And he held trade, I think, nine points, single digit shooting.

That's pretty great. So I like Bruce, but he really needs to figure out his offense before he can get higher than a C from me. Yeah, and I will say definitely he's still, I should mention, very bad on the way to the basket. He's still not scoring very well around 40%. That's it. Certainly, as the season has gone on, he has been taking more of just what's available rather than trying to force anything. So moving on, further down the starting lineup, why don't we start with a guy who began on the starting lineup? but, you know, it's been in and out due to injury.

And that's Tony Snow. Now, I'd say Tony Snell, you kind of know what you're getting from him. A guy who can shoot threes and play decent defense and is not really going to give you much more. And on some nights, he's just going to exist and be completely invisible. That still makes him better than Stanley Johnson or Glenn Robinson, the third, who, annoyingly, is actually having a decent season with the Warriors. He's shooting considerably better than he did with the peasants. So, yeah, Tony's done real well as far as just catching the ball and shooting it, you know, 44% on 4.5 attempts per game.

You can't sneeze at that, you know, good job there. And occasionally he can take a drive for the basket. You know, overall, the guy is about 63% true shooting. Only eight points per game, which should surprise nobody who is familiar with Tony Snell. Because, you know, some games he'll give you better. Like I said, some games, he just barely exists. Defensively, unfortunately, he's been very bad. His time in the starting lineup, he was a horrific defender.

He did a decent job in the three-point line and got annihilated inside the arc. So, I'd say the only really unfortunate part thing about Tony Stoll. There are two unfortunate things about Tony Stoll. Number one is that you have him starting and small forward. Now, he's an improvement over what the business had last season. There's no doubt about that. That's like, you know. Of course, that's very relative.

He's still not a guy he won't starting at small forward. Number two is that the pistons have to pay him again next year. But let's not think about that. So I would say with Snell, you just can't really expect all that much from him. So you're happy when you get something. In an ideal scenario, he doesn't get killed on defense and he shoots well on offense. He's done the latter. He has not done the former.

I'd give him a C-plus. I'll say it again, better than what the Pistons had, still not good. So on to you. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, there's not much to add to that. His defense has been, the main issue I have is that he gets beat off the dribble. A lot, his lateral movement isn't very good. But he's doing what the Pistons brought him here to do, which is catch and shoot threes and, you know, know his role.

and in that regard, I think he's done well. There's just not much for me to add to that. I think his contract is like $8 or $10 million this year and next year. I think $10 million this year and $12 million next season. 10 and $12. Gotcha. I think it could be slightly off. Either way, it's not that he's getting paid that much.

I'll give him a B. Yeah. Yeah, as far as Snell's salary goes also, yeah, $11,000. in this season, 12 million next season, with a player option, which he will undoubtedly take, unless he goes on to have just an unbelievable remainder of the season, which would be very, very unlike Tony Snow. Better than John Lueh, that's for sure. In any event.

So next up is probably the biggest surprise from this season, which is Langston Galloway. Now, Galway, like I've said, I've said early in the show, like I've said in the past, This is just absolutely and utterly notoriously streaky. This is a streaky shooter I've ever seen in my life. Last season, he had periods of doing, alternating periods of being horrible and then excellent, and then horrible again, and then excellent. And I think then horrible again in the playoffs,

if I remember correctly. So, Gallowade, you know, credit, 44% three-point shooter, one of the best catch-and-shoot three-point shooters in the league. He's actually been doing fairly well in that floater of his. It used to drive me insane last season when Dwayne Casey would roam around a pick and have Langston throw up a floater on which he, you know, which he usually hit at, I believe on the season, less than 40%. It was a terrible play to run. Langston's actually sinking that pretty well. I don't know if he did some work over the summer or what.

He's a quick trigger, gives the pistons, options both in the catch and shoots and running around handoffs. I never thought I would say anything like this, but I kind of shudder to think of where the Pistons would be if Galloway were not shooting so well, you know, if not her length of Galloway so far in the season, he's just been very good. You know, he's been his typical decent self-fund defense. He's certainly solid.

He struggles in some matches more than others. He did an admirable job on Trey Young in the home opener. After Bruce Brown, like he said, got completely torched. Casey finally put the Gell-Way on Young and Young did a decent job. excuse me, Galway did a decent job of slowing Troy down. So, you know, good job to the guy. You know, maybe I'm being a little generous here, but I'll give Galway an A. He's doing everything he's supposed to and he's doing it well.

And, you know, at this rate, he's only scoring about 12.5 points per game, but he's a reliable shooter so far. He's been consistent, which is a bizarre thing to say about Langston Galway throughout 22 games. And, you know, even in the games he hasn't done quite so well, I mean, you have to pay attention to him on the perimeter. Opponents absolutely have to pay attention to them on the perimeter. And I think there are sometimes last season when opponents are like, sweet, shoot as much as you want. So, you know, good job, Delamxton.

Also, you know, even at his worst, for the most part, is in the past, this is really a team first guy. Always works hard. I don't think you ever heard ever heard a single thing. Anybody said anything bad about him as a teammate. So I'd say way to go. And I've criticized him a lot in the past. Now my concern is that can he keep it up? And my, I would think so.

My mind says probably not based on his past. Unless he's just turned and, you know, unless he is somehow, I don't know, like found his Zen. I don't know what. changed his diet, something that has caused him to turn this incredible corner and get past this incredible lack of reliability that's plagued him throughout the rest of his career. Yeah. So what do you think about Langston?

22 games of, I mean, maybe with more like one or two that were not good, but for the most part, this is absolutely the best I've seen Langston Gallaudet. I have always been kind of angry at Casey or Van Gundy, And they would put him in. They give him a lot of shot attempts. And it's like, why would you trust this guy with that role? But finally, like, contract here, he's come through and he's shooting ridiculously well. And he's not even making easy threes.

Like a lot of these are off balance, catch and shoot threes. And it's just, it's incredible to watch and knock these down. There was, at some point this season, it's like, it feels like it's almost always going to go in. like it just looks great almost every time and for i think seven million a year and 12.6 points per game that's that's great to me uh do i trust it to last no i i still can't discount the two years of i'm just you know being very very frustrated with him in his minutes i'd give him an a for these first 22 games no trouble you know he's done exactly what you want him to do and he played his role, but I would still say move him before he comes back down to Earth

because this is the time to kind of sell high on him. I give him a nay. Yeah, and I mean, maybe for me giving him an A may just be a sense of relief that I don't have to watch it. Like you said, be super frustrated with Dwayne Casey. Like he was the sixth man for Dwayne Casey last season through spans when, like I think there were 29 games, if I remember correctly, 28, 29 games, and when she didn't hit a single three-point shooter, three-point specialist. And it's like what Dwayne Casey is wrong with you.

Van Gandhi, I don't think really played him very consistently, but, you know, which is typical Van Gundy, really, you know, sign a guy to a multi-year deal or draft a guy in the first round and then just play him only very sporadically. But, yeah, it's just a relief to see him doing well. but and I'm just not going to think about whether this is, you know, if this is going to end or what it will mean for the Pistons defense. If it does, it was the bench offense. So in any event, moving on, we'll look at Marquif Morris. Now, Morris, I know there's a lot of excitement when he was brought in because you think, well, finally, we have a guy who can step into the starting lineup and Blake needs to take a rest. That illusion was shattered pretty quickly.

He was a horrible starter, like just, you know, sneaky, terrible. I think the pistons with him as a starter were about, you know, his on-off was, I think, between negative 13 and negative 14, is one of the worst in the league for any big minute player. So, yeah, as a starter, he was just, he was a complete and utter disaster. As a bench player, he's been fairly good. He's certainly shot the three well. You know, you'd absolutely have to be happy with, for marquee, 40. 31%, which I think he's by far a career best and on four attempts per game.

That's quite good. He's been good from the post. He's improved as the season has gone on. Early in the season, I was like, oh, my goodness, please. I hope this is not what we're going to have to be subjected to when he was forcing shots. He was taking the patented Morris twin mid-range brick in isolation, which you know is just going to bounce off the back of the rim. For the most part, not even come close. I mean, Marcus Morris, the Pistons fans think.

very, seemed to think very highly of him for his tenure in Detroit. And he was quite good in his first season with Detroit. I don't think the Pistons would have made the playoffs, if not for what was a very good performance by him down the stretch, like in the last 20 or so games after the trade dead went. And his second season was horrific. He was, I think of all players who took about 900 shots, at least 900 shots in that season, he was the second least efficient player in the entire league.

He loved his mid-range shots. He loved his isolations. and if he was in a slump and he definitely was slumping for much of the season for long stretches, he would just try to shoot his way out of it. It was awful. And with Marquif,

yeah, so just the second those mid-range, you know, bricks off the dribble started, I was like, please just, please tell me this is not going to happen. He would also, there would be times when he would be heading to the basket or he would be, you know,

stuck onto the baskets, and you'd see him glance over the corner and see Luke Kennard, wide open on the corner, and then he'd look back and take a bad, shot. So basically the only things you want Marquis doing are driving to the basket when it's open, taking spot-up threes, and trying to score from the post. These things he's good at. And like I said, driving to the basket when it's when there's an opening is the guy's not going to drive into

traffic and score. He generally drives in from along the sidelines for the most part. So he's improved. He's really taking those bricks out. He's, he's really taking those bricks out. He's been passing the ball when he's you know when he faces people ahead of him on the drive he's he's just been much more judicious on offense on defense he's passable he's he's not a good defensive player but against bench units he's passable you just you hope he doesn't have to see any more significant time in the starting lineup because he was a complete disaster so for marquee if i give him a c plus if i were just looking at it is time before blake returned to the lineup it would be like somewhere in the d range because he was

was just terrible. And so is so is Snell for that matter. So I really maybe should have rated Tony a little bit lower. But Markief, ever since he's moved to the bench,

has been part of a very protective bench unit. So, you know, C plus for the guy. It's good that he's on Detroit again. He's far better than the guy he replaced, who is Stanley Johnson. He was taking up a lot of the backup

power forward minutes. So I'm having happy to have him on the team in that role. What are your thoughts? Yeah. I'm not going to fault him too much for his time in the starting lineup because a brand new team and obviously not a role that he should have had at all. I was kind of put into that lineup because obviously Blake was out. I've been a lot happier with him when he's playing with guys like Derek Rose. There's There have been a few times where he'll be trailing on the floor. Derek will drive into traffic and he'll turn around and whip a pass to Markief and he'll

hit the three. That's exactly what you want from. I think he's shooting 41% from three this year. Yep, that's right. Yeah, that's good enough for me. I'm really happy with him in his bench role where he's not taking that horrible, like, contested mid-range shot where he would drive, put his shoulder down and then like, been away from the basket. That's a horrible

shot. You don't want him to take that. You don't want to take shots off the dribble at all. Yeah. And as long as he sticks to his role and I think he's kind of figuring that out, I'm perfectly happy with him. His contract is not much. It's like $3 or $4 million, I think.

I was happy with the value when we signed him. I know he was coming off a down year last year, but I was still happy with it. We definitely needed the depth of power forward. And if he can keep this up, I'm perfectly happy with him. I'm going to grade him on his bench roll, and I'll give him a B for that. All right.

So, I know we're getting a little bit lengthy on this episode. We're coming up on an hour already. We just got, I believe, four more guys to look at. So another guy is the last, actually second to last major member of the rotation. And this is the guy who's been probably the biggest surprise so far, and that is Christian Wood. So just looking at what you're getting from Wood, you got to, you know, I think you've got to be real happy with the guy. He's only scoring about nine points a game, but, you know, his per 100 possession numbers are fantastic. The pistons are way better with them on the floor.

Like Christian Wood has the best net rating on the team at plus 10. So 69% true shooting. He's done fairly well, you know, 14.7% percent. rebound percentage is pretty, you know, that's certainly passable. And he's a guy who can create offense. He's a guy who does well despite having, you know, I know, as Greg Kelser said, I disagree with Greg Kelser quite a bit. I know that I'll be accused of heresy by what a Pistons fans are saying that,

but, you know, I have my disagreements with quite a bit that Greg says, at least his analysis. But he's right about saying that the Christian Wood does all of this without really having anything called for him. I personally think Casey should call some more pick and rolls for Christian Wood because he's difficult to stop. He's very springy. He's very long. He's got great hands.

So he's been an integral spark plug off the bench. He spent a lot of time at Power Forward. I know ever since Griffin has been back, he's spent a lot more time at center. He does struggle against certain matchups, like much bigger matchups. Earlier in the season, he was having trouble on defense. Early in the season, he was having trouble with missing assignments and still happens now and then. on the ball he's been a he's been a fairly good defender uh he's he's pretty good at contesting shots he can switch he doesn't get easily blown past it's off the ball where he's had more of his troubles but

you know on the whole he's come he's come out of the team he works hard he's a skilled offensive player and this is a guy who came on a non-guarant a minimum non-guaranteed contract obviously that contract i think is pretty 99.9% going to be extended unless the guy suffers a career excuse me, the season ending injury even then, you know, of course then you say, okay, we'll go out and find another center off the scrap heap. But he stepped into the role ably, and the pistons have, of course, been tremendously better with him on the floor than Thonmaker. So I'm just going to go ahead and give Christian Wooden for what he's paid and for the role

he's been given. He's done very well. And it's kind of a feel-good story. I don't know how many people are familiar with the story, but there's this one of the most poignant pictures from his from his draft year which i believe was 2015 uh was christian boy just looking completely crestfallen after he was not drafted and uh of course it's been it's been a rough road for him really making it uh to find a consistent role in the NBA it seems like i think know there's some talk about him having a bad attitude in the past seems like there's been no

issue with that in the pistons of course i'm not in a locker room but people seem to speak well of him but he's he's certainly been a very pleasant surprise yeah what do you think? Yeah, absolutely. I've loved Christian with this season. And it's no secret. He was kind of stuck on the bench in the early season. Thonmaker was in front of him.

And a lot of people were like kind of screaming. Like, Casey, what are you doing? Give this guy his minutes. He's infinitely more fun to watch than Thonmaker. And he's, he gives, he hustles every night. And that's exactly what you want from a guy like him who's, you know, he's just trying to get into the league and, like, establish his spot. And he's absolutely doing it right now. And the other thing that he's done well, I didn't know anything about Christian Wood before this signing.

I didn't have any faith in, you know, a guy that comes off the waiver wire. Even after he played a pretty good end of the season for the Pelicans last year, I didn't trust those numbers. I figured, oh, it's maybe it was just getting. it on like high volume or something but no he's he's absolutely earned all the praise that he's getting he's shooting i don't know what he's shooting from three but just on my own eye test he's he shoots really well and i had no idea that uh he would do that because usually these guys that you pick up on minimum contracts and their centers that they're usually just like guys who just play above the rim can catch a lob but christian wood's been a lot more than that he's

getting rebounds in a crowd and goes up hard and puts him back. And he's fun to watch. And I'm glad that finally at this point, he's getting the role that he deserves. And he's the first center off the bench. Thank goodness. Because you can never have too much of this guy compared to Thonmaker. So I'll give him an A, absolutely. On this contract, he's an absolute steel.

And he's been a ton of fun to watch. Yeah, that number is about 45% from three, by the way. I will have volume, but yeah, it's been a pleasant surprise. Like you said, he's a great deal of fun to watch. So we'll just try to blow through the last three guys on the list here. One is Svee McEliuk. I know I've said in the past that I thought Svi would, if he was going to make it in the NBA, it would be as a shooting specialist.

That's basically what has been this season. He comes off the bench and he shoots a lot of threes. he's attempting 4.6 shots per game. About 3.4 of those are 3s. He's at them about 45%. The guy tries to get to the basket. When he does, he most often gets stuffed. He's just, I think, he struggles to, he's quite athletic, actually, surprisingly.

He's got short arms. He tries to go to the side of the basket and just lift one up and it gets stuffed. Whatever the case, the guy can come across, come around screens and shoot 3s. He's actually a very effective spot-up shooter. He's been very good at catching shoots and in transition, and that's more or less where he's attempting his shots. So, yeah, I've been satisfied with him. I don't know if he'll last on the bench,

in the bench unit, if, you know, when the winner, if Richard Jackson comes back. He's been well enough, you know, for the role he's given. He's been decent on defense. He has been relatively foul-prone at times. So I'll give him a solid B, you know, if he was brought on. as let's see what this guy can do.

He's done a decent job. Yeah. But, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, losing Reggie Bullock last year, I understood why they moved him. They didn't think they would be able to afford him. And what it ended up happening was that he has some injury.

So it's good that the Pistons got value out of Reggie Bullock, and I'm happy that they picked up Svi. Last year when we had such horrible shooting performances, I was really hoping to see Svi last year because, as you said, the guy's billed as a shooting specialist, the Lakers. That's what he was doing there. And I'm really happy that he's getting minutes now. But I do think, yeah, if Reggie Jackson comes back and he's going back to his three-pointing,

three-point shooting from last year and playing that off-ball role really well, I think Svee is the one who comes out of the lineup, which would be unfortunate because he's shooting like 45%, if I remember correctly from three. And, you know, if he can just be that guy, that's great with me. He's, like you said, his arms are short. He doesn't create with speed. What he does kind of do well is, like, he'll run up and then he can stop really, and stop and pop really well.

That's, like, his main way of creating his own shot. I'd like to see more of him. I'm really happy the Pistons picked him up and that he's getting his role finally. I'd give him a B. like you said. Yeah, he's definitely a judabug on offense. He's always moving. He, I think there was some hope based on Summer League that he can create off the pick and

roll, but I just don't think he has the athleticism or the body to do that in the NBA level. But he's been good for what he's provided. Now come to last two, this is the bottom of the barrel. One is Thonmaker. He hardly needs any evaluation. I think in the opinion of most Pistons fans, he could not be out of the lineup quickly enough. So we've gone over Thon fairly exhaustively in previous episodes. Suffice it to say, he didn't really do anything well. You know, surprisingly, if you look at the stats right now,

the guy's got a, is 61% true shooting, which is you might say, my goodness, how did that happen? Well, it happened because he rarely attempt shots, and he did decently as a three-point shooter during, you know, toward the end of his tenure in the line and the rotation. But my goodness was the guy bad. He's not going to produce at all for you in the paint. He's just, he's awful with that. He was a disaster on defense. He got, he got out, he's just, he's, he moves very slowly on his feet. He got beaten at the perimeter. He got muscled out in the paint. And if you were put on the floor with anybody who was not good at shooting, I mean, it was just, it was a terrible situation. The guy was just awful. He was a drag on the team. And it's a shame for him. But,

you know, that he's, that he's falling out of the rotation. but I hope he stays there. So I'm going to give Thon Maker. He had to improve the slight bit toward the end. I'll give him a D. I'll give him a D. I'll call it that. I mean, the guy was bad. The Pistons took a flyer on him.

But I think if the front office had a crystal ball, they would have just said, screw it, we'll just keep Stanley and we'll have space in the off season for an additional minimum contract. because the thumb was just that bad. So, yeah, I'll be nice and give him a D. You know, he could make the argument that the guy deserves an F because he was bad at everything.

Yeah. I imagine you feel the same. Yeah, no, I'd give him an F because he was just hard to watch, especially when, you know, Christian Wood was on the bench and he was a lot more exciting. And I guess that's not really Thon's fault, but he was just ridiculously bad. He's too skinny to guard-files.

and he's too slow to guard fours. If he wants to make it in the league, he has to just be a really good three-point shooter off the bench somehow. But I don't see that happening any, like on significant volume. I hope it's not something that Casey tries to get him to do on the Pistons. Yeah, no, I'd give him an F. Yeah, I think you could possibly look at the Hawks game and say the Pistons might have lost that game because Dwayne Pacee played Don Maker for most of the second half at Power Forward.

So, and he had to say it, like in games that were, the Pissons had a lot of close games in the early going, quite of close losses. And you say, what if Christian Wipper in the lineup instead of Thon Maker? And Thon were not playing minutes at all. Who knows for the Pistons that one or two wins now? It's irrelevant. But, yeah, he was just real bad. And then last is probably the guy, is a guy who was even worse than Thon Maker. He's been largely forgotten at this point because he's out of the rotation.

That's Tim Frazier. My goodness, is he even bad. The guy is absolutely snake-bitten as a score. It's 33% true shooting. I mean, going into this season, you could say, okay, the guy's a crap defender. Everybody knows that. He's not the greatest offensive player.

But you know what? You can spot him up the three-point line. It's probably going to do pretty well. Nope. That's definitely not the case. The guy could not score from anywhere. You know, interestingly enough, he has the same field goal percentage and three-point percentage,

21.4 for both. That really needs no analysis whatsoever. Yeah, his time in the starting lineup was just abominably bad. It was a shame that he was put there in the first place. It was put in that position. You know, if he played like he did last season where he, you know, was a somewhat acceptable fill-in, you know, emergency fill-in for, I believe it was the Pelicans or the Bucks. I don't remember.

I think it was the Pelicans. I think it was the Bucs. It was the Bucs. Well, the season before for the Pelicans. You know, great, but. I mean, the guy's chief credential right now for the pastons is that he's not Jose Galdron, but he might as well be. I mean, you got to think that nobody can be worse than Galdorone. But, you know, Tim Frazier's given that notion a run for its money.

So sorry, Tim. You got the uncoveted F grade. Man, that guy wasn't bad. And Dwayne Casey seems to have given up on him and rightly so. You know, he just gives the, you know, that's where Bruce Brown took his minutes. basically in sui and uh and they just you know yeah so so long tim that's a shame it'd be nice to have a good third string point guard but you ain't it so f for him yep you disagree no no no i completely agree with you like you can't you can't argue with those numbers those that's just 33% true

shooting that's just i didn't know it was that bad uh i wasn't all that mad at him because he's just Just a third string point guard. That's what he was brought on to do. Obviously, he was never supposed to be in the starting lineup. It was just some pretty bad injury luck that all of our ball handlers were down at the same time for a moment there. But, yeah, no. You can't give him anything other than an F with those types of numbers. He's just been.

Yeah. I did kind of forget about him because, yeah, he's out of the lineup. And I'm glad a guy like Svi is getting his minutes. Yeah. it's unfortunate. Yeah, it's very unfortunate. I mean, fortunately the Pistons had had somebody to step in. You know, maybe the Tim Frazier the last couple seasons would have done a little bit better job at point guard than Bruce Brown. Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. It's probably not. I don't know. Tough to say, if you've done decent ways

a three-point shooter, like Jose Calder when he came in was a good spot-up three-point shooter, and that just disappeared. And the same thing has happened to Tim Frazier. And who knows, maybe it's something in the water. Either way, it's unfortunate. But his true shooting percentage, it should be noted, has actually been inflated by his time, by the garbage time he's been playing. So he's been even worse than you would think, you know, even worse than that would indicate. So you could hardly be worse than 33%.

I mean, that's astonishingly bad. So I would have liked to get to grading Dwayne Casey, but we are well past an hour at this point. So we're just going to call it quits in this episode right now. We'll talk about Dwayne and Casey next time around. So as always, thanks for listening. We'll see you guys next time.