EverydaySpy Podcast - "This Is A Middle East CRISIS" | EverydaySpy Podcast Ep. 32

Episode Date: February 2, 2024

The war between Israel and Hamas has officially turned into a full blown Middle East Crisis. With rockets and deaths happening from Iran to Iraq, violence has spread far beyond its original border between Gaza and Israel. It's time to have a hard conversation about the people, politics, and perceptions surrounding this growing conflict. And even more importantly, what it might mean for you, us, our families, and the future. Find your Spy Superpower: https://everydayspy.com/spyquiz Learn more from Andy: https://everydayspy.com/ Join the SpyTribe: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EverydaySpy/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/everydayspy/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/EverydaySpy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are fully in a Middle East crisis. There is no way around it. There is no other way of saying it. We're watching the slippery slope happen. We literally went from this being a Israel-only issue to now involving Jordan, the United States, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Lebanon, and the UK. Like, this is eight countries now involved in this. This is madness.

We are fully in a Middle East crisis. There is no way around it. is no other way of saying it. We have absolutely watched over the last 60 days how the United States went from having no footprints, no significant issues in the Middle East to now a full-blown Middle Eastern crisis. Right. And it's been interesting to watch. I mean, like incredibly horrible and sad to watch also, but interesting to watch as diplomatically the strategies have started to shift as we come into this, you know, as we started out in this, this shouldn't last long. You know, we can all tow the same party line that we've been towing and things will resolve itself

into now we're at this kind of like, oh shit moment of this could really broaden and be really bad for the region. And the United States absolutely does not have the appetite to get sucked back in to a large Middle Eastern conflict. Yeah, you know, it's funny because you talk about the oh shit moments. And I feel like we're literally watching what you and I at CIA learned as a slippery slope. Yeah. We're watching the slippery slope happen. Because essentially on October 7th, you had Hamas attack Israel unannounced, unexpected, and in a jarring way. Yeah. And then you had Israel respond with airstrikes. So that's what everybody remembers happening in early October. Yeah. Since then, We have literally watched as Iran has gotten more and more involved.

Yes. And to the point where they're actually engaging in hostilities, active attacks in places like Iraq and increasing their attacks on what they claim is ISIS, right? Right. You also have increasing hostilities coming from Jordan into Iraq. You have Hezbollah and the Houthis, meaning the countries of Lebanon, and Yemen, now also getting involved in active strikes, active military efforts, you've got the United States launching missiles into Yemen attacking the Houthis. So we literally went from this being

a Israel-only issue. Yeah. Because Hamas is in the Gaza Strip and Gaza is inside Israel. We went from this being Israel and self-contained to Israel, the true definition of an intrastate war, a single war, with a conflict in a single state with a conflict inside. We have watched it go from that to now involving Jordan, the United States, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Lebanon, and the United States and the UK. Like, this is eight countries now involved in this. This is madness. Well, and you know, and it's not, I think it's not incredibly surprising because the Palestinian-Israeli conflict

has never been just a conflict, just a, an, interest between those two parties, right? Everybody in the region has always had something to say, always has some, you know, some part to play in the conflict between those two, right? So it's not surprising that it has expanded. And it's actually, you know, it's happening at a pace that you would expect, you know, slowly little by little, just like you said, a slippery slope. You know, the unfortunate thing is that I feel like we're watching the mess the messy part of diplomacy and policymaking because in the beginning my assumption and if this is just my assumption is that the United States probably thought they would have more sway over Israel right they would have

more sway over the Israeli government and that assessment that policy and diplomatic assessment has turned out to be wrong. The current government in Israel is digging in harder and harder no matter what any of the other governments are trying to talk to them about, no matter what their own people are asking them to do. The current government has dug in and it's not productive, right? They have their mindset on one path and it's not productive for anything else to, you know, to become possible right now.

Yeah, your point about Israel is resisting the will of their own people is so correct. It's so accurate. I want to stay on that point for just a second because Netanyahu was wildly unpopular. Right. On October 6th before the attack happened. Yes. On October 7th and October 8th, when they suffered their attack and they announced their war on Hamas, his ratings, his approval went up, not significantly, but the whole country unified.

And they kind of said, you know what? We don't really like Netanyahu, kind of a corrupt guy. We don't really like the idea of this, you know, far right, very conservative government that has taken power in Israel. But, you know, we're not, the infighting is not the goal here. The goal is to rescue the hostages that have been taken from us and to restore like, rule of law and law in order to protect the Israeli people. Right.

Since then, your whole point about things unfolding slowly, I feel like things are unfolding at an almost lightning pace. Really? Because since, yes, since that day, Netanyahu's approval rating within Israel is 15%. 15%. Not only is he now dealing with activity, with conflict in the Gaza Strip, the West Bank has significantly increased in terms of their military conflict or their

guerrilla resistant conflict as well. Plus, Hamas, who's being hunted down and eradicated in Gaza, has increased in popularity and support in both Gaza and the West Bank. I mean, you're so right that the government of Israel has dug in. They are ignoring the guidance of their people. They're ignoring the will of their own people. They're ignoring the guidance of their strongest allies around the world. And they're doing it for what reason?

I mean, this really does seem like it is, it is, it is, I don't want to say one man because it's not Netanyahu by himself. Right. It's, it's him and some cabinet of advisors that have taken and they're making either very personal rash decisions or they see some sort of political outcome to this that benefits them more than the current state. I would love your thoughts because I don't, it doesn't make sense to me why you would keep going down a course that you know is against everybody that you trust, everybody who's there to support you. All the historical lessons that people have learned over time. Yeah. I do think it's interesting what you just said, because when I look at the decisions that are being made by the current government is real, I do feel like

the policymakers at the top, making those decisions, I feel like you can see the motivators. So we talk about the rice motivators, right? So you can see the emotional motivators. You can see the ego motivators going into it. Because when you look at the big picture and when you try to project into the future of what the outcome of their actions might be, they're not doing what's best for Israel. They're not doing what's best for the Israel people. They're not doing what's best for the Israel people. They're not doing what's best for the region or for the Palestinians, right? The current course of action is not the best by any means. And I feel like when you watch, you know, every decision that the military is making, that the government is making, you can see that you can

see clear and clear that the driving force is not in service of the people. It's in service of an ego. It's in service of emotion, right? And we always talk about how, how, uh, it's a service. important it is to check your emotions, to not make emotion-based decisions, to not make ego-based decisions, how important it is to make decisions based on fact and assessment of the data. And they're not doing that. Right. Israel is one of the few countries in the world that is literally surrounded by enemies. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's incredible. The Abraham Accords that, were successfully progressing from 2020 to 2023 until October, the Abraham records were slowly making it so that Israel had more allies, more economic peers in the region.

Because if you think about it, Israel is a Mecca, a Mecca is probably not the right word to use. It's a bastion of Jewish freedom surrounded by an ocean of Muslims, right? And you've got both Sunni and Shia Muslims surrounding the area all around Israel. So of those Shia and Sunni countries, the vast majority of them in 2019 were anti-Israeli. They were not in support of Israel. they had no problem with Jews, right? These are not, there's no war between Judaism and Islam. There is no war there. But there is a very real economic disparity that you can see when you're in the region. We've lived there. We've lived in that region. We have seen the disparity. Like you can see the conflict and the racism and the classism that exists. Because Israel is such a small wealthy country. And every other country that has any wealth in the region has oil wealth and oil wealth only. And most countries don't have any oil wealth.

So here we are now. And in just 60 days, three years worth of diplomatic efforts through those Abraham Accords has been undone. And now Israel is once again staring down the barrel of Iran, a country that promises to destroy them. Hezbollah, an organization that promises to eradicate Israel. Hamas, an organization, specifically their militant wing, right? Their militant wing promises to eradicate the state of Israel and give it to the Palestinians. It's just, to your point, like digging in on this has undone three years worth of effort making friends and building allies. And now your allies are all standing on the sidelines.

every country that was part of the Abraham Accord, wealthy, powerful Arab countries are sitting back and they are not supporting anybody, right? UAE, super wealthy, powerful military. They want nothing to do with Israel. Saudi Arabia, super wealthy, super powerful military. They have no stake in the game. They do not want to support Israel. Oman, Bahrain, Qatar. Qatar is the only country actively involved, and they are the place where they are housing the leader of Hamas. So it's just Israel's decisions are not only isolating them from their friends and allies, like the United States and the UK. Israel's actions are literally badgering the countries that they used to be growing closer to in terms of economic prosperity and badgering their countries. and badgering their enemies and giving their enemies even more freedom to attack because Iran is not afraid of UAE coming to help Israel anymore.

Iran is not afraid of Saudi Arabia coming to help Israel anymore. And the more that Israel denies a two-country, a two-state solution, the more that they just eradicate the, you know, innocent Palestinians, the more that they completely disregard any advice, any advisory council from the United States and the UK, the more they make those decisions, the more empowered they are making their enemies, their most dangerous enemies. That's what's so frustrating to me, my love, because the United States, our country's best interests lie in us supporting Israel. There's no other way of looking at it than that. What happens to the Palestinians is a travesty, but a strong Israel, a strong ally and a strong

economy in Israel benefits the United States. So we're in this horrible situation that our past economic and diplomatic decisions have led to, right? Our policy decisions have put us in a position where we need a strong effective Israel, but we can't support them as they attack the Palestinians. Yeah. And that's where we are right now. I see what you're saying there. Because my first reaction was like, well, the United States best interest is, you know, peace in the Middle East, which most people agree involves a Palestinian state, you know, peace between Israel and the Palestinians and their neighbors. But I understand what you're saying economically. That is true. You know, and it's it's a shame that, you know, even if Israel is successful in killing every Hamas

militant out there, the problem is that you can't kill the ideology. And the only thing that's happening now is that the violence is creating and multiplying and morphing the current ideology that already exists. So maybe you eradicate Hamas, you know, all the people who currently call themselves Hamas, but then you're just going to have a Hamas 2.0. You're going to have whatever the people who are being traumatized right now call themselves when they rise up and decide to take their revenge in 30 years. You know, it's, it's, they're creating more of a problem. And now just like you said, it's, it's spread regionally. Like they had made all these inroads and now all that progress is, is garbage. And it's because of how they have chosen to react to the attack, right?

This is the attack by Hamas. There are always. multiple options and they have chosen this route. And it's just not, I think everybody but them seems to be able to see that looking forward into the future, this is not the best option. I mean, there is a, you know, there's a post-war period where rebuilding has to happen where their survivors have to pick up their lives and figure out how to move on where all the countries who are witnessing this and helping one side or another have to decide how they're going to move forward. You know, all of that comes over the next 10, 20, 30 years, and they're just not, I think they're either not projecting. I think they're not projecting correctly.

I think ego is getting in the way personally. It's just a shame to watch, it all unfold this way. So let's talk about outcomes because I don't think we're going to see an outcome to the war between Israel and Hamas anytime soon. I think we've got months at least ahead of us. Hopefully this does not cross the one year mark. And something else, what I was going to say. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

You know, I was going to say that not only are we, like now it's at a point where it's beyond watching what's happening between Israel and Hamas. Now it's at a point where we have to watch what's happening with Iran, what's happening. what's happening with all of the neighbors, you know, we have to keep an eye on these other things because even if that, even if the, even if the Israeli government stays steady, stays on course, you know, we have to keep one eye on that. Now we have to watch everybody else and make the right decisions in those other theaters, right? Correct. What we're seeing is a form of, it's almost like what we've seen happen here when there's kind of moments of mass hysteria. Yeah. And you see,

you know, some event like the, like a, like, like, like we've seen with Black Lives Matter or like we saw with the killing of, of, of, you know, innocent African Americans at the, at the hands of police, you see an event that turns into mass hysteria that then essentially justifies the abandonment of law and order. Yeah. And that's how we go from, you know, a police officer makes a mistake. in the street and that turns into rioting and looting of businesses and entire city blocks in Los Angeles. Like that's, we shouldn't see that kind of thing. That is a human nature thing, but that's what's happening on a wider scale in the Middle East right now. We saw an event take place in Israel that has now turned into looting and rioting throughout the whole region. And the longer that the

event continues, the more the looters and the rioters are going to be emboldened to take it to the next level. Yeah, I really think it's a lesson in, you know, I think, you know, those wide pendulum swings happen because there's an underlying issue that has been going on for such a long period of time that when an event happens, it swings that pendulum all the way to the other side. So people, it's not like people react proportionately because there's all this pressure from what they've been holding onto. So suddenly it just snaps and that pendulum swings all the other side, which isn't the right reaction. You know, it's not proportionate. But, you know, if you'd been paying attention to the beginning, to the underlying issue in the beginning that's

been going on for who knows how long, you know, depending on what you're talking about, arguably it could be prevented, right? Well, we're too late for prevention. So there's no reason I'm looking back. And this is where you and I differ a lot. I love you, but we differ here all the time. You always want to look backwards. Because you... What the hell is the point looking backwards?

Learning from history. You learn from history. You can learn from history. You can learn from history, but it makes no... There's no benefit in looking back and then saying, oh, we made a mistake. Oh, we made a mistake doesn't help us come up with, oh, what's the next solution? It just tells us, oh, we made a mistake. Yeah.

Right? So, and I know that there's a, there's a middle ground that's probably the most mature place to be. But this is where I'm staking my claim right now. You're wrong. Maybe, I'll give you, maybe in the current situation, it's not applicable to be like, oh, we should have done something different before. But you can learn from history so that the next time you see those warning signs in a different scenario, you can be like, oh, you know what? we don't want shit to hit the fan this time. So let's learn from history and take steps in this other situation, right?

So I'll get you halfway there. I'm throwing it your way then. So looking back on history, learning from history, what is one possible outcome that you see having a high probability of happening moving forward? It can be a good outcome or a bad outcome. It can make things better or worse. But when you look into your crystal ball knowing what you know from your time at the agency, and what you've known about history, your time living in the Middle East, what do you see happening

next? I mean, the highest probability, based on what we know now, because we have to constantly assess, you know, as things change, but the highest probability now is that, you know, the Israeli government continues to dig in, does not back down, that government, it doesn't sound like there's an appetite for change in leadership in Israel right now. And so it just, you know, if for the next, you know, at least 90 days, I think the outcome is just going to be the same. It's going to be the status quo. And then whenever it does end, Israel is going to have a really, if they're going to have a very difficult time maintaining peace and rebuilding in the Gaza Strip.

I assume that the United States will still be there. but the United, depending on who we elect, you know, how much of an appetite we will have for sending money to rebuild and not really fix the situation post-war. You know, we'll have to see who's in power here. All right. And you go. I see things a little bit differently. I see things differently.

I think there is an appetite for a change in leadership in Israel. In fact, I think Israel is more at risk of having an. an internal overthrow of Netanyahu, then Russia was ever at risk of an internal overthrow of Putin. Interesting. Because I am willing to bet that inside Israel, there's a special thing about Judaism, specifically Orthodox Judaism.

And according to Orthodox Judaism, very fundamental Orthodox Judaism, there's a requirement to prioritize the rescue of hostages taken by infidels above all other things. Interesting. So that means that the very same conservative group that brought Netanyahu to power, there's a very good chance that that same group prioritizes retrieving their hostages alive above all other things. So Netanyahu's political arguments about denying and rejecting a two-part, a two-state, state solution. That's politics. And his stance on that political outcome has essentially

negated Israel's ability to get their hostages back, which is a big part of why Palestine takes hostages or why Hamas, excuse me, correction. This is a big reason why Hamas takes hostages, because they understand that conservative Islam or conservative Judaism requires that hostages be rescued. So it's one of the few weapons that they've been able to use psychologically and economically to their advantage. So Hamas understands that as long as they have hostages, they essentially have like there's a Torah-based demand and it's an absolute imperative that those hostages are rescued according to the most fundamental, most orthodox Jews. So I see that the very same people who brought Netanyahu to power are actually not happy with the way he's managing the

conflict. Right. And then you layer on top of that the fact that most centrist Jews also, most centrist Israelis also do not like the way that Netanyahu is running the country. So you actually have a bridge where both the conservative and centrist and then of course the more liberal base too, they all dislike the current ruler, but in a true democracy. Because Israel is a true democracy. It's not some flimsy democracy like Russia. So it's really interesting because Netanyahu is very much, I could absolutely see him either being voted no confidence,

like a vote of no confidence in Netanyahu, or him being forced to step down, or them declaring some kind of emergency situation where some other leader takes place and handles the rest of this conflict. I can absolutely see that happening if this conflict continues longer than another three or six months because there is already a huge swing against Netanyahu in his own country. And then on top of that, there's a huge pendulum swing throughout the entire world against Israel's actions.

So if you or I were an advisor, if you or I were a business person, a wealthy person, a political, anything, inside of Israel, like we need to correct things quickly. And the number one thing we need to correct is this person who is publicly stating that they choose politics over Jewish lives, right? Yeah. So I see a different outcome. I see, I see a complete transformation in leadership in Israel if this conflict continues. Because if Netanyahu remains in power, the bigger risk, The biggest risk is that Israel isolates itself so much from its allies that Iran starts to attack inside Israeli borders. Yeah, I feel like right now, for me, the big things I'm interested in watching are the citizens of Israel and if they're going to start turning the tide of their government. We're seeing it a little bit, but they're really going to have to make a big push to convince.

their leadership to make a change. So I think that's something that I'm really interested in watching in the coming, you know, days, weeks, months. The other one is Iran. I think Iran is really fascinating right now. They've seen a window of opportunity and they are taking it. And I think that they are definitely somebody. I'm interested in continuing to watch to see how bold they gets. Yeah. Israel is a country that's going to have a difficult time controlling its borders. Yeah. It's got Hezbollah in Lebanon, which is on its northern border. It has Hamas in the Gaza Strip. It has a rising group, it's a rising interest and support for Hamas in the West Bank. So that puts Israel at risk to the east, to the west, and to the north. And then to the south, like the closest ally it has is

Jordan. And Jordan is really only friends with Israel because Jordan is friends with the United States. So it's going to be a mess. Yeah, that's why. And all I really, yeah, my number one hope is that the United States, unfortunately, and I think it will, as long as we have Biden in power, honestly, I think this is how it's going to turn out. It's going to be like Obama in Syria. Remember the red line? Yeah, I remember. And he was like, eh, well, Yeah, they use chemical weapons, but it's still not worth getting involved. Yeah. Like, I think that's going to be the Biden administration, too.

Like, we'll threaten and threaten and threaten, but we're really just going to send some cruise missiles because it's good training for our people. And it gives, it makes sure that the military industrial complex in the United States can continue to generate more money and more revenue without risking American lives. I don't know that the decision is that flippant at the top. But I do think that when they balance it against American insurance, interests, you know, what's the right thing to say? What's the right thing to do? And then what is the right thing for the United States of America? And those aren't always the same thing, unfortunately. Correct. And let's be frank, in a non-flippant way, in a non-flippant way, what the United States is the most interested in right now is being one of the first people on the ground to be able to give

economic loans to rebuild Israel when all of this is over. So as long as Israel comes out on top, they're going to take their loans from the United States. But if Hamas comes out on top, or if Hamas carves out more land, more property, if the Palestinian footprint expands, then those loans are going to come from Muslim countries in the Middle East. And then you'll see Saudi Arabia and UAE step in, right? And you'll see more economic ties to the Middle East than to the West

in the country of Israel, as are the borders that we now know is Israel. Yeah, I always have to remind myself to look at the economics and not just the politics. Because they're so, they're so entwined. Good point. Speaking of economics and politics, I'm going to switch gears here. Speaking of economics and politics, there is absolutely an economy that I have discovered that comes from being a husband that has to support your parents.

And I say that because your dad, who I love, who are children love, he is not taking care of himself. No. And not, and I don't, I don't only hear about it from you, my love. Oh, yeah? I hear about it from our six-year-old daughter. Oh, yes. Who also made a tattletail on her grandpa.

Yeah. Because he's eating four scoops of ice cream and watching YouTube again, dad. At 10 o'clock at night. He's not taking care of himself, dad. Or he's not going for a walk, dad. Or he's not drinking enough water, dad. Like, she is on him. Yeah.

She really is. Yep. She, it's a, it's a, I see it as a reflection of, of the good parenting and lessons we've taught her that she is calling him out on all his poor health choices. But, I mean, all laughing side, his poor health choices, they worry you. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny because, you know, they've, they've been, my parents, since you've been, you're gone, like, about five weeks this time around. And so, you know, my parents came, I brought my parents here to stay with me for three weeks, you know, and in part for help, but really in part for company, because it gets very lonely. You know, I have my children, but as any parent knows, you know, I can only talk so much about bayblades and, you know, bluey, right?

So my parents have been here for, you know, almost three weeks now, and it's been such an amazing visit. just like every time. And I think I've expressed to you like every, you know, I'm 43 now. And every time their departure comes up, you know, I start to get teary. I cry every time they leave. You know, and for all the, you know, for all the complaints, I think that, you know, children have about their parents, you know, during the visit or about their childhood or whatever. Like the fact is, I grew up in a really loving household. I took a lot from my parents. I saw the sacrifice that they made for us. And they did that the best that they could, right? And so, I feel like my parents sacrificed and supported me as a child and throughout my adolescence and

throughout my 20s and throughout my 30s. You know, every time I need them, they are there. And now I feel like with age, my parents are now in their early 70s. I feel like the tide's turning where it's now it's my turn. It's my turn to bring them into the fold of our new little family and make sure they have quality time with the kids. and I take care of them and I support them. Like once my parents, you know, are fully retired, you know, it's my duty to care for them,

you know, care for their health, care for them, you know, financially, if they ever needed it, to really just take care of them in the way that they took care of me and allowed me to be a healthy and successful person. So it really is difficult because their adults really set in their way. and so when you see them making decisions that you know you are like i love you i want you to be healthy and to live the longest healthiest life you possibly can because we need you right we need your company and we need your mental acuity and we need your funny jokes right please put down the bowl of ice cream at 10 o'clock at night you don't need that but we need you and you know and

living a healthy lifestyle is what allow us us to have that. But it's difficult because they're adults and they can do what they want to do. And it reminds me of all those, all those grandparents and great-grandparents from when you and I were growing up. I very much remember. There's the story of like the grandpa who smokes at like 70-something years old. And even though he has lung issues and even though he has throat issues and even though he has lip issues. You know, he's like, I'm going to die anyways. I might as well enjoy my smoke on the way out. Or the, or the grandma who drinks. And she's got all sorts of issues tied to alcohol. But she's like, I've been drinking for 30 years. I'm not going to stop now. Right. So there's, you've got all these

stories that we grew up with. And now we're seeing it in our own parents. It's not like we're not 12 anymore looking at an 80-year-old. We are now 40 looking at a 70-year-old. Yeah. And we're seeing them make their decisions and we're seeing them say the same stuff. Right. Your dad's like, I'm not diabetic yet. It's not going to happen. Like, I've been eating ice cream since I was 13. Like, why would I stop now? But, you know, there's no talking sense into them. There's no saying when you were 13, you had two scoops of ice cream at dinner. Now that you're 70, eight or whatever, you're having four scoops of ice cream twice in a night. Yeah.

It's not the same thing. Like your body, the 80-year-old body, the 70-something-year-old body does not process like the 12-year-old body. So it's very, very different. And I do wonder, you know, when you meet these people who are much older and, you know, I met a lady on, I will never forget, I met this like 90-year-old lady on a cruise one day. And she was like, I've been smoking and drinking my scotch every day. And I'm 90 and I'm fine.

And, you know, at what point, you know, is it selfish to ask them, you know, because, you know, to, are they, is allowing them to do these things that they say make them happy, is allowing them to do it, you know, justified. Is it selfish for me to ask them to live a healthier life and, you know, cut down on the ice cream, cut down on the pound cake, right? go for walks, you know, do these things that I know are hard because you and I do them, you and I get our workouts in, you and I choose to eat healthy, right? And it's not the easiest thing. And I understand that. There's definitely sacrifices that come with not shoving whatever you want to in your mouth. But, you know, is it selfish to ask that? Should I just let him live his life and then hope for the best, right? Hope that no major health issues come up, you know, or should I just stay on his case?

And then I also feel like there's a second set of questions that have to do with what is the role model we are setting for our children? Yeah. When they watch us treat them differently than we treat your parent. When they watch us espouse different values than the values that we enforce with your parents. That's a good point. Like, I remember being a kid and being very confused why it was that the rules were different for grandma and grandpa.

The rules are different for mom and dad's friends. Rules are different when it's our cousins and not us. Like, it was always very confusing to me. And it made for a very difficult, you know, childhood and adolescence trying to understand what authority really was and who really had it until I finally accepted the fact that nobody has fucking authority and that it's free for all. And apparently if you want to just launch missiles into Yemen, you can. Oh my gosh. And there's no repercussions. I don't know. Yeah, it's an interesting.

That's the world that we live in and it was confusing. I don't want to confuse our children. Well, and it's a good point you make there because, you know, part of what I have to tell the kids is that, you know, he's an, you know, he's an adult. The lesson that I have found myself teaching the kids lately is that everybody has to make their own choices. And I'm teaching them, trying to teach them to make the best. choices that I know, you know, from my own experience, what I believe to be the best choices, but that in the end, everybody has to make their own choices. And I don't, you know, of course, I won't know if that's the right thing to do until they're like 30 probably, you know, because one day they're going to be 16, one day they're going to leave the nest one day and they are

going to make their own choices. And maybe one day, you know, our son's going to be like, I want to eat four bowls of ice cream in a day and, you know, he's going to make that choice. So hopefully Well the good news is our son did recently say Sina, the love of my life, my little boy, my first born who is like, who has, is so sensitive and so wonderful.

He did say the magic words to me recently that he's never going to leave the house so that as soon as his wife has a baby, he can hand the baby off to me to take care of the baby because they're going to be living in the basement. That he did tell him. me that, yes. I thought that was hilarious. I mean, Eli is going to move out of the house by the time she's like 15. Oh, yeah. She's going to, she's going to, like, yeah, she's going to own an apartment.

She's going to be a slum lord by the time she's 18. I can guarantee you. She is such an entrepreneur. She is absolutely going to dominate some small segment of humanity somewhere. She's either going to be a cult leader or a world leader. I don't know which, but like all the pressure is on us to make sure that that little girl stays on the light side, not the dark side. I totally agree with you. But I started saying that, you know, there's economics and politics and everything. And when it comes to our family, like, my economics are going to support your parents too. I know that they have been there for you in the hardest moments of your life, which tells me that if

if I have hard moments in my life, if the kids have hard moments in their lives, your parents will be there. Yes. And I love your parents. I love my parents as well. But my parents are not those parents. My parents kicked my ass out of the house at 18. They started telling me there would be no financial support for me. They started telling me that at 16.

They forced me out on my own. They took away my safety net. they basically checked off the box when they were done parenting. And since then, my stepdad isn't part of my life really at all. He's definitely not interested. I mean, maybe I cross his YouTube screen every now and then, or maybe he sees me on history channel periodically, but that's about as close as our relationship is. And my mom, like, she's very happy whenever we do something that she's proud of, but it's not like she's not calling us to see the kids. She's not trying to make plans to visit us in Florida. Like, my parents are not your parents. Yeah. So because my parents were not

there for me, I feel no obligation to be there for them. Again, economics and politics, right? It's interesting. Your parents, I feel a connection and a, a, I just, I lost the word. What does CIA always teach us about triggering in other people? Reciprocity. Reciprocity. Yeah. Well, I feel the sense, I feel the pool of reciprocity to your parents. I feel no press of reciprocity to my own. Yeah, it's been interesting to see because before I met you, you know, I didn't really pay much attention to other parents, you know, the parents of my friends, whatever.

So it wasn't until I met you and then our families joined, right, became one, that I really noticed the stark difference between your parents' parenting. and my parents' parenting style. And since then, I have met other people. We have a friend who, he's an older gentleman, and his, I remember him saying very clearly, like, nobody there, nobody was there to help me and my wife raise our kids, and my kids are on their own. And that was his, you know, that was his viewpoint as far as parenting went. And I thought, oh, my gosh, like, that sounds very harsh. But clearly, there are different parenting mindsets and styles, and it's been interesting to see the different outcomes of those. I don't know that, you know, I can say

personally one is preferable to the other one, but I don't know if one's better than the other one, it would be interesting to see a study. Well, even when you say one is preferable, it's only preferable to you. To me, yes. There are plenty of people out there who probably were super happy to be done with their families and have no support and no help because they wanted to prove that they could make it on their own. Yeah. But for you, like that sense of family and comfort and safety, It's very important. Yes. I think the problem, the challenge for me personally came from the fact that I,

I am emotionally more similar to you. I want the loving environment. I want the support. I want the caring, right? That's what we're building in our company. Yes. Our company culture is very much focused on being almost like a family, a family of warriors, but still a family.

Yeah. Because that's important to me. It's important to me to know that like, hey, you're going through something painful, whether it's you lost your grandmother or you lost your dog. If it's painful to you, I want you to feel safe here in the family. And I feel like that's working. Our children are definitely accepting and adopting and engaging in that kind of atmosphere. And of course, that's an atmosphere your parents thrive in.

But yeah, as soon as my mom gets anywhere near us, I think she gets squeamish because she's like, everybody loves each other and everybody's nice to each other. And doesn't somebody have to do the chores around here? She has her own way of showing love. She does. And she shows fantastic love in that way that she shows love. Absolutely. But it is hard because you have to speak her language or else you don't feel loved.

Well, I appreciate you taking the plunge with me, even though you knew you were taking on. Well, because I also get to talk about stuff like this because we had a fantastic question come in from one of our people, one of our subscribers that asked, what news sources we trust. There's no better way to start this conversation than to talk about how horrible your mother's choices are in selecting sources of news. I think your mom and my mom watch the same news, so I'm just throwing that out there.

That's true. My mom. I think there's a difference. I think the main difference is that your mom takes news from anywhere and thinks that it's news. my mom literally only watches one channel that is blasphemous and she believes in this news so i do i think that you're right i they get ultimately it comes from the same political slant yeah yeah but yours your mom i swear she sees it on facebook she thinks it's real so what's funny about

her too is um because they've been staying with us she gets these uh like newsy emails but they're all the content is really snarky and she'll read it to you like listen to this and it's all this really you know kind of funny snarky news content and I'm like where did I'm like how do you like when did how did you even start receiving these emails she's like I don't know they just started coming in my inbox one day and I was like okay but I will say that because my parents are exposed to you so much they are forced now because you challenge them all the time they are forced now to diversify their news sources and think a little bit more about, you know, what they are, what they are repeating, you know, the information that they are getting. But I think, and then you and I,

interestingly enough, like, have different news sources as well. You'll come up with stories that I haven't seen. And I'm like, well, where'd you, where did you see that news story? And I'll have to go look it up. And then I have my, you know, I have my usual list. I'm a creature of habit. I have my, uh, my daily emails. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about that. I think the whole world would love to know. What is Ghee's Creature of Habit News list? Yeah.

Because you read the news first thing in the morning. Before you even kiss me good morning, you are reading the news. That's because you sleep in. It reminds me where I am in the world, in the pecking order of things. I'm trying to change that. But please tell us what news sources get your attention before your husband? So first thing in the morning, I get an email from AP News. and I read through that and then I'll click in stories that I find are interesting.

And then I get an email from The Economist. I subscribe to The Economist. So I get that and, you know, I read those highlights. And then usually I'll go back to a little bit later in the day. I'll go back to the AP News website and explore a little bit more because their newsletter really is just highlights. And then I also get the New York Times. So the first two come in the morning and then the New York Times comes in the East. evening. So sometimes I'll take a look, you know, really quickly at the New York Times.

And then if I'm, if I'm actually researching something. So that's like my daily intake of what are the top stories. But if I'm actually researching something. Because that's, that's, that's, yeah, yeah. Your daily intake of stories is more news sources than the average person moves. Well, I was just going to say, I will expand my news sources to to make sure I'm getting a more well-balanced, you know, but AP News honestly is, is fairly balanced. And that's why I go to them first. So associated, Associated Press. Yeah. Gets your attention before anything else in the way.

That's powerful. That's, I mean, I can't think of, I can literally hear people subscribing to Associated Press right now because you said that. It's great. And then second to that was The Economist. Is that correct? Yeah. And AP News is free, but the Economist is a paid subscription. So, I mean, AP News is the place to start.

I also want to highlight. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I can tell how excited you are because you just keep talking. I just love it. I'm usually the one that just rambles. But many people don't realize this, but the economist is actually a foreign news source. It's a UK-based news source.

Yeah. So I love that your number one news source and your number two news sources are one domestic and one international. And Associated Press is truly journalistic content more so than not because it comes from a large swath of journalists, both freelance and staff. Yes. So it really does have to go through that journalism pressure test for journalistic qualification before it gets pressed or puts a press. So that's really cool stuff.

And then your third was the New York Times? Yeah, I have an email. I get their little email newsletter to New York Times. And that's really just, you know, highlights as well. And it's kind of a, you know, a different perspective. but you have to recognize the slant. So the economist has its own bit of a slant. The New York Times has its own bit of a slant.

So as long as you recognize that, you know, where they're coming from. And if you see something, you check it on, you know, another news site that maybe is a little bit more neutral. I'm going to get a different perspective. I think that's important there. Right, right, right. So I think that's awesome. Those are your three sources. So my main sources are, you're right, they're totally different than yours.

Yeah. It's super cool. So my go-to is Rooters. I actually really like Rooters first. Yeah. And then after Rooters, I like the BBC, which is a foreign-based, right? It's out of Britain. And then I actually really like Al Jazeera, which is also foreign-based.

Yeah. And it's out of, I believe it's Qatar. I think it's based in Qatar. I don't remember anymore. So I have one domestic and two foreign news sources is my go-to and all three from different regions of the world. You have, essentially, you have a very centrist point of view with the AP, but then you get slightly more and more left leaning, still very facts based and still very centrist, but the New York Times and the economist are left leaning for sure. The economist is further left,

I think, than the New York Times. But the other thing I would say is that periodically I'll also find myself looking at the Wall Street Journal. Oh, yes. But it's not one of my go-toes. My go-toes really are like, and even to your point about slant, for anybody who's ever read Al Jazeera, it's hard because depending on the topic, their slant can change because they have a very, very heavy slant whenever they're reporting on Middle Eastern issues. But they're relatively neutral when they're reporting on international issues, which can be pretty nice. Yeah, I think they're Definitely great to use as one of your news sources for sure. I mean, I really believe that you shouldn't have just one single news source that you go to.

Absolutely. You should not. But the other thing that's interesting is of the two of us, all six of the news sources that we just talked about are print-based first. They are not video-based. Oh, yeah. So Fox News, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC. see here, these are news sources that are primarily video based. And neither of us are talking about those as news sources that we go to at all. And those two news, I mean the two news sources, CNN and

Fox News, those are your primary news sources in the United States. Yeah, I actually, I don't consider, I don't consider those news sources. I consider them news media. I see news media is something different than a news source, which is why I read my news and I don't watch. it because when you watch a news channel, they are supported by ratings. And so they have to keep you engaged, which makes it more likely for them to, you know, use headlines and rhetoric that is more inflammatory and more biased to keep you watching. And so I don't, I don't watch my news. No, I totally agree. But what does your mom and my mom do? Yeah.

And watch themselves some news. I swear my mom turns on the TV just to get pissed off. I swear. I'm pretty sure she's pissed at somebody most of the day. So then she turns on the news just to get pissed off at somebody different than the person that she's been pissed off at all day long. Yeah, my mom has it on in the background. Her current husband just cheers her on. That's right.

Get pissed, Patty. Get pissed. I can't believe that either. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. That is my mom's and they open a box of wine and they light up the world. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah.

And that's what those, you know, that's what the news media is for, right? To get people, you know, engaged in their homes and engaged with the channel so they'll keep watching. Yeah. Emotional. Just like you were saying. It goes all the way back to what you were saying earlier about the current administration in Israel. Yes. Emotional based decisions.

Emotional based reactions. Right. Yeah. And unfortunately, that is exactly what Hamas is hoping for, because that's what's going to get them. Yeah. That's what's going to get them more, more headline time, more news coverage time, more international support. I mean, think about it. It's unheard of. There are at, at, in Salt Lake City during the Sundance Film Festival, there were Americans supporting Hamas. Like it's incredible. That would have been unheard of six months ago. And now you actually have people at a major festival in the United States in a conservative part of the United States, actively supporting a group that sits on the U.S. list of terrorist groups. And you know what I haven't heard, I mean, maybe it's out there,

but I haven't heard people talking about. I haven't heard a lot of discussion on what are Hermas's goals. what was Hamas's aim the day that they attacked Israel, right? What were they trying to do? They weren't just trying to kidnap people and kill and kill Israeli citizens. There was a much larger goal, and I haven't heard a lot of conversation about what was their goal and are they reaching it? I mean, it seems... I don't think anybody wants to admit it.

Yeah. I don't think anyone wants to admit it. But my love, this was an awesome conversation. Thank you so much for making it. time. I know your parents are still staying with you. Go give them hugs and kisses for me. Do not give them ice cream. I won't. Don't feed the animals at the zoo. And I have been really feeling this trip. I've been feeling how far away I've been from you guys for the last three weeks and we still have two weeks left. But every day gets me closer to home. We're excited to have you home.

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